[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
A veritable feast of red herrings from Vaj, along with several new lies: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 5, 2007, at 10:53 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:00 PM, authfriend wrote: snip Here's the lie Vaj told: if you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. In fact, virtually every Google hit on the phrase is tied to Gratzon's book, which is not, of course, a get rich quick scheme. Well, since you failed to define a get rich quick scheme I find your lame response unconvincing. Most people (including you) know what get-rich-quick scheme refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get-rich-quick_scheme Not at all the type of scheme I was referring to. Yes, it is. Of course it should be clear that I was specifically talking about TM org inspired schemes for success, wealth and/or financial gain through support of natural law, etc. A get-rich-quick scheme is a get-rich-quick scheme, no matter who or what inspires it. But then again, Judy knew that Not only didn't I, I still don't. What I do know is that this is Vaj continuing to try to justify his lie. snip More importantly, though, your lie suggested the links were to lots of different get-rich-quick schemes, not to a single book. And there are others. Will I take the time to hunt them down and list them for you? Unlikely for me to contact people I've not seen in years, nor is it likely I will violate their confidentiality by doing so publicly. Utter non sequitur, another attempted diversion. As Vaj knows, I've said several times now that I'm *not* suggesting TMers haven't engaged in get-rich-quick schemes. Vaj continues to batter what he is well aware is a straw man. Besides I've already proven my point with hundreds of links. Hilarious. Vaj has done no such thing, of course. He hasn't provided even *one* link. I'm sure you'll get over it in time if you try. No, I think I'll keep right on pointing out that Vaj is building a veritable mountain of lies in an attempt to cover up the first one. How many movement entrepreneurs were you friends with Judy? Please share some of your friend's misfortunes online on a public forum, we'd love to hear them. I take it you get my point. Another non sequitur. Exactly what would it prove if I did, or did not, know any such people? After all, you claim to have 'been around' in the TMO. Surely you know someone since you've been around the TMO so much. To the contrary, I've said explicitly that I'm not even on the periphery of the TMO, as Vaj knows. Just for the record, there was no indication whether or not these hundreds of links would be connected to a single book or not (kind of irrelevant since some of these are links to different people). I checked quite a few in which the text of the Google hits did not mention Gratzon or his book. On the pages themselves, every one of them had to do with Gratzon and his book. The intention was to demonstrate they simply exist on the web, at that time. Vaj's intention was to suggest that Google lists lots of sites about different TM- related get-rich-quick schemes tied to the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything. It does not. Vaj was lying. snip So let's look at Judy's assertion that Gratzon's book is not part of the genre of get rich quick scheme books and whether or not it aims a quicker approach to starting a business compared to the more traditional approaches. Irrelevant argument on both counts. There are no schemes in Gratzon's book, so it isn't part of the genre of books advancing such schemes. Of course, IMO the book is about such schemes No, it's not. Again, what it's about is changing one's attitude about effort being required to make money, the thesis being that once you get over that attitude, things tend to automatically fall into place. There are no schemes proposed in the book. , so this is an irrelevant point. People tend to do their scheming in private. Entirely irrelevant. I never claimed nobody devised their own schemes after reading the book, as Vaj knows. And of course the number of schemes operating under the 'do nothing, accomplish everything' rubric extend beyond the ideas in a book. Different people interpreted it differently and applied it differently. I never suggested otherwise, as Vaj knows. Another red herring. Rather, it attempts to prepare readers psychologically to approach the endeavor of making money without thinking it has to involve great effort on their part. His basic thesis is that once you stop thinking this way, things begin to fall into place (whatever the specifics) more or less automatically. No schemes involved, just a change of attitude. LOL, The author
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 5, 2007, at 10:53 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:00 PM, authfriend wrote: snip Here's the lie Vaj told: if you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. In fact, virtually every Google hit on the phrase is tied to Gratzon's book, which is not, of course, a get rich quick scheme. Well, since you failed to define a get rich quick scheme I find your lame response unconvincing. Most people (including you) know what get-rich-quick scheme refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get-rich-quick_scheme Not at all the type of scheme I was referring to. Of course it should be clear that I was specifically talking about TM org inspired schemes for success, wealth and/or financial gain through support of natural law, etc. But then again, Judy knew that, she's just using one of her favorite tactics: diversion. Nice try, but no cigar babe. Thanks for the red herring but I already had breakfast. More importantly, though, your lie suggested the links were to lots of different get-rich-quick schemes, not to a single book. And there are others. Will I take the time to hunt them down and list them for you? Unlikely for me to contact people I've not seen in years, nor is it likely I will violate their confidentiality by doing so publicly. Besides I've already proven my point with hundreds of links. I'm sure you'll get over it in time if you try. How many movement entrepreneurs were you friends with Judy? Please share some of your friend's misfortunes online on a public forum, we'd love to hear them. I take it you get my point. After all, you claim to have 'been around' in the TMO. Surely you know someone since you've been around the TMO so much. Just for the record, there was no indication whether or not these hundreds of links would be connected to a single book or not (kind of irrelevant since some of these are links to different people). The intention was to demonstrate they simply exist on the web, at that time. One would suspect most of these have or will disappear over time since the TM org is dying a slow death and few new people come in to add to more fiascos. So let's look at Judy's assertion that Gratzon's book is not part of the genre of get rich quick scheme books and whether or not it aims a quicker approach to starting a business compared to the more traditional approaches. Irrelevant argument on both counts. There are no schemes in Gratzon's book, so it isn't part of the genre of books advancing such schemes. Of course, IMO the book is about such schemes, so this is an irrelevant point. People tend to do their scheming in private. And of course the number of schemes operating under the 'do nothing, accomplish everything' rubric extend beyond the ideas in a book. Different people interpreted it differently and applied it differently. Most of them are long gone and will never be found on the web. After all the hay day of the TMO has long since passed. Rather, it attempts to prepare readers psychologically to approach the endeavor of making money without thinking it has to involve great effort on their part. His basic thesis is that once you stop thinking this way, things begin to fall into place (whatever the specifics) more or less automatically. No schemes involved, just a change of attitude. LOL, The author himself, apparently applying these same ideas did use lying and illegal tactics to establish his telecom group, which eventually applied for bankruptcy before being sold. Sounds like a scheme to me. Let's look at the definition of the word scheme and this example above: Scheme: make plans, esp. in a devious way or with intent to do something illegal or wrong Did the author of the aforementioned book, presumably the leading expert on how to apply them use such a scheme: devious and illegal plans, too get rich quickly? Yes he did. (You won't find these kinda things in any book) Fred Gratzon, founder of long-distance reseller Telegroup in Fairfield, Iowa, also readily admits to being economical with the truth. The company's first direct mailing was cunningly designed to 'look like an official notice from the telephone people.' It was a computer printout with no company logo that blandly stated: 'NOTICE OF TELEPHONE RATE REDUCTION AVAILABILITY. Due to recent changes in tariffs of the Federal Communications Commission, your company is entitled to reduced rates on long-distance service.' Never mind that those 'recent' changes referred to the Communications Act of 1934. 'The response to this was enormous,' says Gratzon. 'That was the white lie that launched Telegroup.' (...) And the time he decided he couldn't afford the expensive registration process in each state and decided to operate illegally. 'We
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It just shows how far you will go to perpetuate lies, create diversions and foster deception. Finally Vaj throws in a few words of wisdom about his motifs
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Looks like I got you that time. :-) Looks like You ALL got me! Dang, I LOVE You guys! :-) :-) :-) [JUDY:] They say we're young and we don't know We won't find out until we grow [RORY:] Well I don't know if all that's true 'Cause you got me, and baby I got you [RORY:] Babe [BOTH:] I got you babe I got you babe [JUDY:] They say our love won't pay the rent Before it's earned, our money's all been spent [RORY:] I guess that's so, we don't have a pot But at least I'm sure of all the things we got [RORY:] Babe [BOTH:] I got you babe I got you babe [RORY:] I got flowers in the spring I got you to wear my ring [JUDY:] And when I'm sad, you're a clown And if I get scared, you're always around [JUDY:] So let them say your hair's too long 'Cause I don't care, with you I can't go wrong [RORY:] Then put your little hand in mine TJUDYe ain't no hill or mountain we can't climb [RORY:] Babe [BOTH:] I got you babe I got you babe [RORY:] I got you to hold my hand [JUDY:] I got you to understand [RORY:] I got you to walk with me [JUDY:] I got you to talk with me [RORY:] Igot you to kiss goodnight [JUDY:] I got you to hold me tight [RORY:] I got you, I won't let go [JUDY:] I got you to love me so [BOTH:] I got you babe I got you babe I got you babe I got you babe I got you babe
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:00 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 7:09 PM, authfriend wrote: And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. Actually not. Rather, because Vaj felt the need to respond to my reminder of his earlier lie by lying some more, again and again, compulsively, about his faux-Google search, until he finally got so strung out he became incoherent. I pointed out the precise nature of Gratzon's book as it directly relates to 'do nothing, achieve everything', how he conceals the principle with a catchy title horselaugh Right, Vaj. The title is The Lazy Way to Success: How to Do Nothing and Accomplish Everything. That sure is a great way to conceal the principle, by putting it in the title of the book. and how it links to literally hundreds of web sites. But none of that has ever been in dispute, of course. Here's the lie Vaj told: if you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. In fact, virtually every Google hit on the phrase is tied to Gratzon's book, which is not, of course, a get rich quick scheme. Well, since you failed to define a get rich quick scheme I find your lame response unconvincing. So let's look at Judy's assertion that Gratzon's book is not part of the genre of get rich quick scheme books and whether or not it aims a quicker approach to starting a business compared to the more traditional approaches. Whether or not it is part of the genre of get rich quick books is a matter or both opinion and consensus. IMO it is part of the genre of new age, get rich easy or quick. I would also hypothesize that the majority of readers on this list who are objective, i.e. non-TB's, would also hold a similar opinion. What are the traditional paths to starting a business and how long do they take? One way is to 'learn the ropes' of an existing business and then break out on your own and start your own business. This typically takes years, at least several and often long periods of time (many years). The academic approach is to get bachelors or MBA along with some internship experience before striking out on your own. One may also decide to gain some experience in the work sphere before breaking out on their own. This would take a minimum of 4 years of college plus any experience and as long as 6 years plus any experience desired. So we have a range of a several years up to 6 or more years before starting ones business in more traditional approaches. How long comparatively would it take a reader of Gratzon's work to get into business? Much, much less. Assuming one wants to read the book several times to get the ideas down, let's say a month or two to digest the ideas. The 'attuning oneself to the lazy approach', to natural law, would take (if TM research is to be believed) only about three months maximum--the typical amount of time for TM benefits to level off. In other words it's much less time, very quick in comparison, this path to success and alleged riches. Let's say six months or less. How much shorter though? Is it really quick comparatively? Yes, it is. Let's take a gander at the numbers! If one started a business after getting detailed academic training by pursuing a MBA that would take typically 6 years. Even if we assume it would take the natural law/lazy approach double the amount of time, 6 months, the Gratzon approach is: 72 months vs. 6 months or 12 times faster! Even if we have someone just doing a bachelors and a years work experience, comparatively, Gratzon's lazy method is 10 times as fast! Clearly, just looking at standard business training vs. the lazy- natural law method, the Gratzon method is a get rich quick scheme: a scheme to make profitability and success in a comparatively much, much shorter time: 10 to 12 times faster. And the book also, IMO, is part of the genre of get rich quick new age schemes. I base this on direct experience of similar schemes ventured by TMers (who were often TBs).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip This is the part that *isn't* true. It's designed to embarrass me into not commenting on his posts. Could be; I don't really know. Getting you to feel embarassed, I can see, because I've been there (see below). But to embarass you into not commenting? Maybe so, maybe not. How can we really know? It would seem you are making him out to be a *total moron* if his true motive has been only to shut you up, since obviously, as you point out, this tactic hasn't even remotely worked in God- knows-how-many years. He's a control freak, Rory. He can't help himself. Has nothing to do with intelligence or rationality. Now I *do* know that parts of us (or parts of me, anyway) indeed appear to be essentially moronic, unthinking, repetitive habit- patterns that continually fail to accomplish the stated motives of the larger self. But I've found on closer look that these habit- patterns are usually sustained because they *are* accomplishing their own goals as best they might; they're actually quite content with the status quo, and/or are afraid of what the alternative(s) might bring them. Sure, it's part of the whole more and more paradigm--you go after either what brings you more pleasure, or less pain. So that's my hypothesis here: that on the level of the patterns doing the interacting, both you and Barry *are* quite content with the status quo. The fact that this status quo hasn't changed in so many years tends to support my hypothesis. In other words, it's what IS, so it must be Perfect! :-) Well, yeah, everything ultimately is perfect, so that isn't really saying much. On the relative level, however, I know I enjoy this forum more when Barry's not around; and I suspect Barry would enjoy it more if I weren't around. I'd enjoy it a *lot* more if Barry stayed around and got a clue, dropped his phony act and chronic dishonesty, started giving his intellect a real workout instead of flabbily flopping around in the shallows, took responsibility for what he said. Then he'd be fun and stimulating to interact with instead of being a pompous, boring pain in the butt.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:00 PM, authfriend wrote: snip Here's the lie Vaj told: if you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. In fact, virtually every Google hit on the phrase is tied to Gratzon's book, which is not, of course, a get rich quick scheme. Well, since you failed to define a get rich quick scheme I find your lame response unconvincing. Most people (including you) know what get-rich-quick scheme refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get-rich-quick_scheme More importantly, though, your lie suggested the links were to lots of different get-rich-quick schemes, not to a single book. So let's look at Judy's assertion that Gratzon's book is not part of the genre of get rich quick scheme books and whether or not it aims a quicker approach to starting a business compared to the more traditional approaches. Irrelevant argument on both counts. There are no schemes in Gratzon's book, so it isn't part of the genre of books advancing such schemes. Rather, it attempts to prepare readers psychologically to approach the endeavor of making money without thinking it has to involve great effort on their part. His basic thesis is that once you stop thinking this way, things begin to fall into place (whatever the specifics) more or less automatically. No schemes involved, just a change of attitude. snip The 'attuning oneself to the lazy approach', to natural law, would take (if TM research is to be believed) only about three months maximum--the typical amount of time for TM benefits to level off. In other words it's much less time, very quick in comparison, this path to success and alleged riches. Let's say six months or less. Er, no. While Gratzon does recommend TM, it's as an adjunct, an extra; it's not the basis of his approach. More significantly, though, in none of the material I've read about and from his book, including his blog, is getting rich quickly a goal; it isn't what he emphasizes at all. As far as I can tell, what he advocates and promises has nothing to do with speed, only with not exerting effort. So it would appear you've spent a whole lot of time, Vaj, painstakingly knocking down a straw man, in your continuing attempts to pretend you didn't tell a blatant, knowing lie. Once again, here's what you said: If you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. Here's the *truthful* version of what you said: If you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything,' the phrase is almost always tied to a book by a TMer about how to make money without a lot of effort. But you didn't say that, because it doesn't sound as though there are lots of TMers out there trying to rope vulnerable dupes into investing in ethically and/or legally dubious *schemes* for getting rich quickly, using MMY's phrase (from a very different context) as the hook. There may well *be* such TMers. But instead of going to the trouble to document your claim, you fabricated the evidence out of whole cloth. You tried, in fact, to do nothing and accomplish everything; you attempted the Lazy Way to Success, but you didn't do it honestly, and you got caught at it, showing yourself to be a person lacking in credibility instead of achieving what you'd hoped for.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda I never interacted with John Cowhig, but as you know I did with Michael Yankaus. I came close to throwing him off a mountain in St. Moritz. He that that kinda effect on people. So the notion of him as the hugging saint in comparison to Cowhig speaks volumes. :-) I want to reemphasize that age and experience have mellowed Michael. I'm not married to the guy, but in my interactions with him in recent years, he has come across as much more broad-minded, open-hearted, and easy-going than the old Michael. Good to hear. I was speaking only of the old Michael, the one I met in St. Moritz and the one whom the rest of the TM teachers at the Palo Alto center wanted to lynch on a regular basis. Time does wonders...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
Does anyone else notice the similarity of the Judyspeak below to the recent postings by Lisa and Joe? The *emphasis* is not on the relevant issue (in this case, whether TMers were ripped off by fellow TMers), but on establishing the person who thinks incorrectly (in this case, Vaj) as a bad person, a liar. THAT is what Lisa and Joe have built their career on, while defending Sai Baba. THAT is what Judy Stein has built *her* career on, while defending Maharishi. It would be different, IMO, if, when confronted by a post critical of Maharishi or the TMO, Judy dealt with the discernible facts and ONLY the facts. Google away! Provide all the documentation in the world to support your stance. HOWEVER, when you can't leave it at that, and feel that you *have* to follow up the facts by trying to get everyone here to agree that the other person is a liar, or intellectually dishonest or otherwise untrustworthy, THEN you have crossed the border into compulsive ad hominem, into shoot the messenger. IMO, for Lisa and Joe, ad hominem is a way of life. They *live* to demonize the critics of Sai Baba. And as a result they have lost the respect of pretty much every forum they have ever touched. IMO, for Judy, sadly (because it's a waste of a good intellect), ad hominem had also become a way of life. And Judy wonders why she don't get no respect here. And the saddest part is that all three actually feel GOOD about what they do. They see themselves as some kind of hero, fighting for truth, justice, and the American Way. The day that Judy can respond to the facts and *leave* it at the facts, without including one of her zingers at the end of the post urging other readers to think of the person she's debating with or refuting as a liar or a fool or intentionally misleading, then I'll promote her to aspiring hero. Until then, she's just a mean-spirited bitch who gets off on trying to convince others that they should hate the same people she hates. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 1:51 PM, authfriend wrote: snip It looks to me, from reading the material about the book from Gratzon and others, that it's very much along the lines of The Secret. I'm not endorsing Gratzon's approach, by the way, or suggesting that TMers haven't crafted or gotten suckered by get-rich-quick schemes. But Gratzon's book ain't one of 'em. My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Don't assume that the world revolves around Google. Most of what I'm sharing will be apparent to those who actually have not lived sequestered lives but have some experience in the movement and the people who were part of it. (Lived sequestered lives? Vaj thinks I've led a sequestered life? That's hilarious.) Vaj is *still* trying to cover up the lie he told about having found lots of links to get-rich-quick schemes in a Google search of the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything. There were no such links. He made it up. The only links to that phrase were to a book by a TM teacher that had nothing to do with get-rich-quick schemes. (Actually there may have been a couple of links to TM-related sites that discussed what MMY means by the phrase, which obviously has nothing to do with get-rich-quick schemes either.) I see Judy as someone very much on the periphery of the movement Not even on the periphery, as I have made quite clear. (likely not even able to meditate in the domes, a course reject) I've been accepted on every course I've ever applied to, actually, several dozen over the years. (Never applied to one at MUM other than my TM-Sidhis block, though.) who only pieces together info from secondary sources. I postulate my claims based on direct experience of people involved in movement inspired businesses and the financial disasters that ensued. The reason no one supports your dissembling is they see it as just that: a second or third handed attempt to build an argument based on google-loka. As Vaj knows, he's misrepresenting my argument. It has to do with direct experience of Vaj and Google, not with the movement or the financial problems of TMers. Vaj told a lie about what he had found on Google. That's my argument, and as Vaj knows, it's he who is dissembling, not me. Maybe if you had some better social skills people could actually believe you've been out there and seen something, anything that supports your desperate attempts at salvaging your point. My point was that
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: I'm not surprised BTW that New Morn, a TB, would fall for it. Wow. Vaj thinks I am a true beleiver. To read my posts and believe that I am a true believer is simply fantastic (as in fantasy). I am speechless. Gotta speak up and agree about the TB part. I don't see you as one at all. However, the idea of you being rendered speechless *does* lighten my day. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone else notice the similarity of the Judyspeak below to the recent postings by Lisa and Joe? The *emphasis* is not on the relevant issue (in this case, whether TMers were ripped off by fellow TMers), but on establishing the person who thinks incorrectly (in this case, Vaj) as a bad person, a liar. THAT is what Lisa and Joe have built their career on, while defending Sai Baba. THAT is what Judy Stein has built *her* career on, while defending Maharishi. It would be different, IMO, if, when confronted by a post critical of Maharishi or the TMO, Judy dealt with the discernible facts and ONLY the facts. Google away! Provide all the documentation in the world to support your stance. HOWEVER, when you can't leave it at that, and feel that you *have* to follow up the facts by trying to get everyone here to agree that the other person is a liar, or intellectually dishonest or otherwise untrustworthy, THEN you have crossed the border into compulsive ad hominem, into shoot the messenger. IMO, for Lisa and Joe, ad hominem is a way of life. They *live* to demonize the critics of Sai Baba. And as a result they have lost the respect of pretty much every forum they have ever touched. IMO, for Judy, sadly (because it's a waste of a good intellect), ad hominem had also become a way of life. And Judy wonders why she don't get no respect here. And the saddest part is that all three actually feel GOOD about what they do. They see themselves as some kind of hero, fighting for truth, justice, and the American Way. The day that Judy can respond to the facts and *leave* it at the facts, without including one of her zingers at the end of the post urging other readers to think of the person she's debating with or refuting as a liar or a fool or intentionally misleading, then I'll promote her to aspiring hero. Until then, she's just a mean-spirited bitch who gets off on trying to convince others that they should hate the same people she hates. One last comment and then I'll drop it. Twenty posts within a 24-hour period. EVERY ONE OF THEM a clear attempt to get other people on this forum to think nega- tively about one or more posters on this forum who have disagreed with Judy Stein. EVERY ONE OF THEM an attempt to get others to pile on and add to the demonization. Not a single post that added value or discussed anything the least bit substan- tive or spiritual. As new.morning said so well recently, Some posts just don't deserve a response. Is it any wonder that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 4, 2007, at 4:17 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Does anyone else notice the similarity of the Judyspeak below to the recent postings by Lisa and Joe? The *emphasis* is not on the relevant issue (in this case, whether TMers were ripped off by fellow TMers), but on establishing the person who thinks incorrectly (in this case, Vaj) as a bad person, a liar. Very similar. THAT is what Lisa and Joe have built their career on, while defending Sai Baba. THAT is what Judy Stein has built *her* career on, while defending Maharishi. It would be different, IMO, if, when confronted by a post critical of Maharishi or the TMO, Judy dealt with the discernible facts and ONLY the facts. Google away! Provide all the documentation in the world to support your stance. HOWEVER, when you can't leave it at that, and feel that you *have* to follow up the facts by trying to get everyone here to agree that the other person is a liar, or intellectually dishonest or otherwise untrustworthy, THEN you have crossed the border into compulsive ad hominem, into shoot the messenger. Or email them to death--fortunately the current format discourages such terrorist email tactics. IMO, for Lisa and Joe, ad hominem is a way of life. They *live* to demonize the critics of Sai Baba. And as a result they have lost the respect of pretty much every forum they have ever touched. IMO, for Judy, sadly (because it's a waste of a good intellect), ad hominem had also become a way of life. And Judy wonders why she don't get no respect here. And the saddest part is that all three actually feel GOOD about what they do. They see themselves as some kind of hero, fighting for truth, justice, and the American Way. Or the natural law way :-) The day that Judy can respond to the facts and *leave* it at the facts, without including one of her zingers at the end of the post urging other readers to think of the person she's debating with or refuting as a liar or a fool or intentionally misleading, then I'll promote her to aspiring hero. Until then, she's just a mean-spirited bitch who gets off on trying to convince others that they should hate the same people she hates. It was always interesting to me, that whether or not the posts you make even deal with her or anything she might be marginally interested in, our dear Judy will feel the knee-jerk necessity (or obsession) to respond to your emails, if only for the chance to make some negative remark or to try to cast you in some bad light.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 4, 2007, at 4:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: I'm not surprised BTW that New Morn, a TB, would fall for it. Wow. Vaj thinks I am a true beleiver. To read my posts and believe that I am a true believer is simply fantastic (as in fantasy). I am speechless. Gotta speak up and agree about the TB part. I don't see you as one at all. Please understand, I do define TB a bit differently. For me a TB is someone who simply is a true believer in the TM technique and or the enlightened status of Mr. Varma. I often enjoy New Morns insights and objectivity by and large, esp. when the posts are concise. We agree on many things. I do not see New Morn as a radical or rabid TB.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone else notice the similarity of the Judyspeak below to the recent postings by Lisa and Joe? The *emphasis* is not on the relevant issue (in this case, whether TMers were ripped off by fellow TMers), but on establishing the person who thinks incorrectly (in this case, Vaj) as a bad person, a liar. Note that thinks incorrectly and bad person are Barry's phrases, put in quotes along with liar to make it seem as though they were mine-- one of Barry's common tactics of misrepresentation. Note that the relevant issue is not whether TMers have ripped off fellow TMers, but whether Vaj lied about what he found on Google. Note that nowhere does Vaj actually deal with the relevant issue. Instead, he claims I've led a sequestered life, that I'm on the periphery of the movement, suggests I'm a course reject, accuses me of dissembling (i.e., lying), claims no one supports me, and says I have poor social skills. And Barry's attacking *me* for using ad hominem and not addressing the relevant issue! THAT is what Lisa and Joe have built their career on, while defending Sai Baba. THAT is what Judy Stein has built *her* career on, while defending Maharishi. In this case, of course, I'm not defending MMY. It would be different, IMO, if, when confronted by a post critical of Maharishi or the TMO, Judy dealt with the discernible facts and ONLY the facts. Google away! Provide all the documentation in the world to support your stance. HOWEVER, when you can't leave it at that, and feel that you *have* to follow up the facts by trying to get everyone here to agree that the other person is a liar, or intellectually dishonest or otherwise untrustworthy, THEN you have crossed the border into compulsive ad hominem, into shoot the messenger. IMO, for Lisa and Joe, ad hominem is a way of life. They *live* to demonize the critics of Sai Baba. Just as Barry and Vaj live to demonize those who support TM and MMY. And as a result they have lost the respect of pretty much every forum they have ever touched. The interesting question is why Barry and Vaj have not lost the respect of this forum. IMO, for Judy, sadly (because it's a waste of a good intellect), ad hominem had also become a way of life. And Judy wonders why she don't get no respect here. Um, no, what I wonder (as I've stated explicitly any number of times) is why the folks on this forum are so tolerant of the participants who routinely tell knowing falsehoods, like Vaj and Barry. What Barry would like to be able to do is lie his head off and never be called to account for it, as would Vaj. That's why Barry is demonizing me and defending Vaj. And the saddest part is that all three actually feel GOOD about what they do. They see themselves as some kind of hero, fighting for truth, justice, and the American Way. The day that Judy can respond to the facts and *leave* it at the facts, without including one of her zingers at the end of the post urging other readers to think of the person she's debating with or refuting as a liar or a fool or intentionally misleading, then I'll promote her to aspiring hero. Until then, she's just a mean-spirited bitch who gets off on trying to convince others that they should hate the same people she hates. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony. Too funny. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 1:51 PM, authfriend wrote: snip It looks to me, from reading the material about the book from Gratzon and others, that it's very much along the lines of The Secret. I'm not endorsing Gratzon's approach, by the way, or suggesting that TMers haven't crafted or gotten suckered by get-rich-quick schemes. But Gratzon's book ain't one of 'em. My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Don't assume that the world revolves around Google. Most of what I'm sharing will be apparent to those who actually have not lived sequestered lives but have some experience in the movement and the people who were part of it. (Lived sequestered lives? Vaj thinks I've led a sequestered life? That's hilarious.) Vaj is *still* trying to cover up the lie he told about having found lots of links to get-rich-quick schemes in a Google search of the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything. There were no such links. He made it up. The only links to that phrase were to a book by a TM teacher
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Twenty posts within a 24-hour period. EVERY ONE OF THEM a clear attempt to get other people on this forum to think nega- tively about one or more posters on this forum who have disagreed with Judy Stein. EVERY ONE OF THEM an attempt to get others to pile on and add to the demonization. Patently untrue, on all counts. Not a single post that added value or discussed anything the least bit substan- tive or spiritual. Also untrue. Barry can't even *see* the posts I make that add value. As new.morning said so well recently, Some posts just don't deserve a response. Is it any wonder that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more? I get plenty of responses. Barry apparently can't see those either.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 7:03 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: I was wondering the same thing. I have a feeling that whatever happened with Great Midwestern was probably just a warm-up compared to Telegroup. I mean I find his premise somewhat outrageous, the more you work, the less success, the less you work, the more success. Hardwork equals a host of negative effects. Maybe that's just the come on, and what he is getting to is working smart and all that. But, Telegroup was a pretty spectacular blow up, so I was curious how he deals with it. Besides that, I find his writing sort of juvenile, but I must admit, I found it interesting, maybe because I was there, at least for the ice cream part. The idea, I guess, is because his ice cream business failed despite the hard work he put in, that that was the cause of it. But of course the hard work was the whole reason it succeeded so well at first. The reason it then went south was evidently because Fred decided to start taking large amounts of time off without having someone trustworthy in charge while he was away. Or maybe they *were* trustworthy but just overwhelmed. I don't know for sure, never really having had my own business, but it seems that taking weeks at a time off, unless it's unavoidable, for anyone in almost any business would not be a good idea. Minding the store has got to be one of the first rules of success. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 4:17 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: snip HOWEVER, when you can't leave it at that, and feel that you *have* to follow up the facts by trying to get everyone here to agree that the other person is a liar, or intellectually dishonest or otherwise untrustworthy, THEN you have crossed the border into compulsive ad hominem, into shoot the messenger. Or email them to death--fortunately the current format discourages such terrorist email tactics. For the record, as a matter of policy, I don't email anybody I'm not friendly with. Not sure why Vaj would suggest I have done so. snip It was always interesting to me, that whether or not the posts you make even deal with her or anything she might be marginally interested in, our dear Judy will feel the knee-jerk necessity (or obsession) to respond to your emails Nor does Barry email me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As new.morning said so well recently, Some posts just don't deserve a response. Is it any wonder that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more? you sound obsessed.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: As new.morning said so well recently, Some posts just don't deserve a response. Is it any wonder that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more? you sound obsessed.:-) He has a boring obsession for attention...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: As new.morning said so well recently, Some posts just don't deserve a response. Is it any wonder that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more? you sound obsessed.:-) He has a boring obsession for attention... What's really amazing is that he uses the same identical tactics over and over and *over* again, without any success whatsoever. He's been trying for *years*--here and on alt.m.t--to get people to stop responding to me by pretending that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more. Either that, or it's a wish-fulfillment fantasy. If he says so few people are bothering to respond to me, it'll somehow magically happen. And all the while, despite countless vows to ignore me, he can't stop talking about me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: As new.morning said so well recently, Some posts just don't deserve a response. Is it any wonder that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more? you sound obsessed.:-) He has a boring obsession for attention... What's really amazing is that he uses the same identical tactics over and over and *over* again, without any success whatsoever. He's been trying for *years*--here and on alt.m.t--to get people to stop responding to me by pretending that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more. Either that, or it's a wish-fulfillment fantasy. If he says so few people are bothering to respond to me, it'll somehow magically happen. And all the while, despite countless vows to ignore me, he can't stop talking about me. Must be something nice and clear about you that drives him nuts...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please understand, I do define TB a bit differently. For me a TB is someone who simply is a true believer in the TM technique and or the enlightened status of Mr. Varma. SNIP How about if we *also* believe in every other technique and non- technique, and/or the enlightened status of Mr. fire-hydrant, Mrs. apple-tree, and even You? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip . Minding the store has got to be one of the first rules of success. That's sure been my experience. lurk
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's really amazing is that he uses the same identical tactics over and over and *over* again, without any success whatsoever. Actually, I think he's been *highly* successful -- he got you to bite yet again, didn't he? He's been trying for *years*--here and on alt.m.t--to get people to stop responding to me by pretending that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more. Perhaps it's not really so much about whether or not other people respond to you, but whether or not *you* respond to *him*. Either that, or it's a wish-fulfillment fantasy. If he says so few people are bothering to respond to me, it'll somehow magically happen. And all the while, despite countless vows to ignore me, he can't stop talking about me. And vice versa, like two mirrors reflecting themselves into infinity! So beautiful! Author, author! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: What's really amazing is that he uses the same identical tactics over and over and *over* again, without any success whatsoever. Actually, I think he's been *highly* successful -- he got you to bite yet again, didn't he? I don't think you're reading what I'm writing, Rory. Try again: He's been trying for *years*--here and on alt.m.t--to get people to stop responding to me by pretending that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more. Perhaps it's not really so much about whether or not other people respond to you, but whether or not *you* respond to *him*. Rory, with all due respect, you're not exactly tuned in here. Either that, or it's a wish-fulfillment fantasy. If he says so few people are bothering to respond to me, it'll somehow magically happen. And all the while, despite countless vows to ignore me, he can't stop talking about me. And vice versa, like two mirrors reflecting themselves into infinity! Well, no, not vice versa like two mirrors etc. I've never said I was going to ignore Barry, to the contrary. He *wishes* I would ignore him. Desperately. But I don't care in the slightest if he ignores me; I'll continue to comment on his sophistry as I see fit. So beautiful! Author, author! :-) Wrong play, sorry.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's really amazing is that he uses the same identical tactics over and over and *over* again, without any success whatsoever. Rory Goff wrote: Actually, I think he's been *highly* successful -- he got you to bite yet again, didn't he? authfriend jstein@ wrote: I don't think you're reading what I'm writing, Rory. Try again: He's been trying for *years*--here and on alt.m.t--to get people to stop responding to me by pretending that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more. *lol* Yes, it reads exactly the same the second time around. Funny about that! I (still) understand what you think he wants; you believe he's unsuccessfully trying to get people to ignore you. You may be right; I don't know. Now, do *you* understand what *I* suggested? Instead of merely repeating it, I will try rephrasing (see below). Perhaps it's not really so much about whether or not other people respond to you, but whether or not *you* respond to *him*. Rory, with all due respect, you're not exactly tuned in here. You're right! I'm not tuned in to agree completely with what *you* are saying. It's not that I didn't understand it; I was offering a different look at it. To rephrase: I am suggesting that what Barry *says* he wants, and what he *really* wants, may not be the same thing. He *says* he wants people to ignore you; what he may really want, is to continue to engage you, to nip you -- to do whatever it takes to irritate and get a rise out of you, virtually regardless of the seeming content of his posts. If so, I'd say his tactics appear to be working beautifully, and have been *for years*. N'est-ce pas? Either that, or it's a wish-fulfillment fantasy. If he says so few people are bothering to respond to me, it'll somehow magically happen. And all the while, despite countless vows to ignore me, he can't stop talking about me. And vice versa, like two mirrors reflecting themselves into infinity! Well, no, not vice versa like two mirrors etc. I've never said I was going to ignore Barry, to the contrary. No, you're right, and that wasn't my point -- it was simply that you both *continue to pay attention to each other* -- to resonate on the same frequency, more or less, he-said, she-said, into infinity. That's all. That's all that's required. It really *is* quite beautiful. He *wishes* I would ignore him. Desperately. Maybe. Maybe a part of him does, and a part of him doesn't. How can we really know? But I don't care in the slightest if he ignores me; I'll continue to comment on his sophistry as I see fit. As well you should! What good is one hand clapping? So beautiful! Author, author! :-) Wrong play, sorry. Apologies accepted :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: What's really amazing is that he uses the same identical tactics over and over and *over* again, without any success whatsoever. Rory Goff wrote: Actually, I think he's been *highly* successful -- he got you to bite yet again, didn't he? authfriend jstein@ wrote: I don't think you're reading what I'm writing, Rory. Try again: He's been trying for *years*--here and on alt.m.t--to get people to stop responding to me by pretending that so few people bother to respond to Judy's posts any more. *lol* Yes, it reads exactly the same the second time around. Funny about that! I (still) understand what you think he wants; you believe he's unsuccessfully trying to get people to ignore you. You may be right; I don't know. Now, do *you* understand what *I* suggested? Instead of merely repeating it, I will try rephrasing (see below). Perhaps it's not really so much about whether or not other people respond to you, but whether or not *you* respond to *him*. Rory, with all due respect, you're not exactly tuned in here. You're right! I'm not tuned in to agree completely with what *you* are saying. It's not that I didn't understand it; I was offering a different look at it. To rephrase: I am suggesting that what Barry *says* he wants, and what he *really* wants, may not be the same thing. He *says* he wants people to ignore you; what he may really want, is to continue to engage you, to nip you -- to do whatever it takes to irritate and get a rise out of you, virtually regardless of the seeming content of his posts. If so, I'd say his tactics appear to be working beautifully, and have been *for years*. N'est-ce pas? If so, yes, but it's not so. You've got what he says wrong, which is why I said you weren't tuned in. What you got *right* is that what he says he wants isn't what he wants. And what he says is contradictory. So it's no wonder you haven't quite been following it all. On the one hand, he says people shouldn't respond to me. This part is actually true; he wishes people wouldn't respond to me. On the other hand, he *also* says explicitly (this is the part you're missing) that he wants me to respond to what he calls his button-pushing. This is the part that *isn't* true. It's designed to embarrass me into not commenting on his posts. Seriously, now. If you were Barry, would you want me to comment on your posts? Of course, on other occasions he also professes great frustration at my trashing his posts. That's another one that's actually true. When you've been exposed to Barry over a long period, you catch on to the pattern, because it's repeated over and over. The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. But he really has no idea how to do anything *else*, so he just keeps doing the same things.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. Uh-huh. Who has just been suckered into making 27 of her 35 posts for the week in only slightly over 24 hours? Who is going to waste at least one and probably more posts answering this one, all the while claiming that she's not being manipulated? :-) And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. All he had to do was keep replying, and you took yourself out of the game. After you've done not being manipulated by this post, you'll be sitting in the penalty box for the rest of the week, still never having been manipulated. THAT was one of Rory's points, the one you missed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. Uh-huh. Who has just been suckered into making 27 of her 35 posts for the week in only slightly over 24 hours? Who is going to waste at least one and probably more posts answering this one, all the while claiming that she's not being manipulated? :-) And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. All he had to do was keep replying, and you took yourself out of the game. After you've done not being manipulated by this post, you'll be sitting in the penalty box for the rest of the week, still never having been manipulated. This is fun. NOW you have to figure out what my manipulation is THIS time. :-) Am I trying to goad you into replying a bunch more times so that you foul out, OR am I sneakily trying to get you to shut up, and conserve your last 8 posts? Oh, the quandary. Oh, the anguish. Do you begin to see the drawbacks of having to compulsively reply to protect the small s self? :-) Over and out. You deal with it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. Uh-huh. Who has just been suckered into making 27 of her 35 posts for the week in only slightly over 24 hours? Who is going to waste at least one and probably more posts answering this one, all the while claiming that she's not being manipulated? :-) And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. All he had to do was keep replying, and you took yourself out of the game. After you've done not being manipulated by this post, you'll be sitting in the penalty box for the rest of the week, still never having been manipulated. THAT was one of Rory's points, the one you missed. Looks like she got you that time. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. Uh-huh. Who has just been suckered into making 27 of her 35 posts for the week in only slightly over 24 hours? Who is going to waste at least one and probably more posts answering this one, all the while claiming that she's not being manipulated? :-) And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. All he had to do was keep replying, and you took yourself out of the game. After you've done not being manipulated by this post, you'll be sitting in the penalty box for the rest of the week, still never having been manipulated. THAT was one of Rory's points, the one you missed. Looks like she got you that time. :-) One way to deal with paranoids is to pander to their fantasies. :-) Or, saying it another way, one way to deal with humans who have come to believe that their ego is real is to pander to that ego *as if* it were real...support its fantasies...and allow the fantasies to lead the human into suffering...which will eventually lead it to liberation. If you'd spent more time with a hands on teacher, you'd recognize the technique. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If so, yes, but it's not so. You've got what he says wrong, which is why I said you weren't tuned in. What you got *right* is that what he says he wants isn't what he wants. And what he says is contradictory. So it's no wonder you haven't quite been following it all. On the one hand, he says people shouldn't respond to me. This part is actually true; he wishes people wouldn't respond to me. Yes, I think he is probably honestly expressing a part of himself there. On the other hand, he *also* says explicitly (this is the part you're missing) that he wants me to respond to what he calls his button-pushing. Yes, you're quite right; I do recall his explicitly having said this in the past. However, I think it's quite possible he has (in part) also been telling the truth here. In fact, I think it's likely he has *always* been partly telling the truth, and partly lying, as he most likely consists of numerous particles who aren't always in agreement, as I think he's also said. This does not make him particularly *spiritual* of course -- just in recognition of his own brilliantly Eclectic multidimensionality (if you like him) or horrendously slimy lack of integrity (if you don't like him). :-) Personally, I've found that this awareness of all-the-varied- particles has been a *huge* step toward actually *gaining* integrity, particularly when I've *stopped* denying them/mindlessly identifying with them and started truly Witnessing them, paying detached/loving attention to them, hearing them and allowing them to hear Me, so that we may come together into a physical synthesis that allows all our goals to be met -- truly allows us to sing together and manifest our shared paradise. This is the part that *isn't* true. It's designed to embarrass me into not commenting on his posts. Could be; I don't really know. Getting you to feel embarassed, I can see, because I've been there (see below). But to embarass you into not commenting? Maybe so, maybe not. How can we really know? It would seem you are making him out to be a *total moron* if his true motive has been only to shut you up, since obviously, as you point out, this tactic hasn't even remotely worked in God-knows-how-many years. Now I *do* know that parts of us (or parts of me, anyway) indeed appear to be essentially moronic, unthinking, repetitive habit- patterns that continually fail to accomplish the stated motives of the larger self. But I've found on closer look that these habit- patterns are usually sustained because they *are* accomplishing their own goals as best they might; they're actually quite content with the status quo, and/or are afraid of what the alternative(s) might bring them. So that's my hypothesis here: that on the level of the patterns doing the interacting, both you and Barry *are* quite content with the status quo. The fact that this status quo hasn't changed in so many years tends to support my hypothesis. In other words, it's what IS, so it must be Perfect! :-) You yourself showed me this, when I was trying to help you into seeing your own enlightenment: we don't really need help, we just need to be appreciated where we are. Well, now I *do* appreciate where you are, very much, because *you* do, and you showed me that; you showed me your infinite beauty as You ARE. I was just commenting that I see the same infinite beauty between you and Barry as It IS, but if your bliss consists in not acknowledging that, then that's also infinitely beautiful as It IS, and I am content with that. Either way, I bow down to your infinite resplendent beauty. Seriously, now. If you were Barry, would you want me to comment on your posts? *lol* You're funny! But honestly, how would I know what Barry really wants? All I can see is what he shows me about myself, the stories and patterns we awaken between Us; In himself he is (as far as I can see) Nothing/Everything/Pure Radiant ISness, just like everything and everyone else. As he himself has pointed out, the very act of being attended to, of having a number of minds read one's posting, can be quite a rush, quite addicting in itself. I wouldn't at all be surprised if *that* was what was really behind this lovely dance. I do remember as a kid I *loved* to tease my brothers, to get a rise out of them. Same thing, maybe. Attention, excitement, maybe even a fight! Yay! :-) Years later, my younger brother very kindly lent me his diaries from those years, and I found that I had unconsciously acted out this kind of behavior on my siblings *invariably* right after my Dad had pulled something really kooky, really violent, on us. (He was a brilliant man, very charming, but had serious addictive and id-control issues, rather like a dry drunk -- stemming, perhaps, from temporal-lobe injuries sustained from motorcycle accidents, or maybe not.) Anyhow, even at the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. But he really has no idea how to do anything *else*, so he just keeps doing the same things. Uh-huh. Who has just been suckered into making 27 of her 35 posts for the week in only slightly over 24 hours? Who is going to waste at least one and probably more posts answering this one, all the while claiming that she's not being manipulated? (Says Barry, as he just keeps doing the same things.) Ya just don't get it, Barry. I respond to what *I* want to respond to, whether you want me to or not. As I said to Rory: If he were you, would he want me to respond to his posts? And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. Actually not. Rather, because Vaj felt the need to respond to my reminder of his earlier lie by lying some more, again and again, compulsively, about his faux-Google search, until he finally got so strung out he became incoherent. All of which served my purposes very well indeed. All he had to do was keep replying, and you took yourself out of the game. After you've done not being manipulated by this post, you'll be sitting in the penalty box for the rest of the week, still never having been manipulated. Um, no, I'll still have seven posts left until I take off again. And the ones I've used were well worth it. Boy, you're obsessed with keeping track of how many posts I make! Why is that, dude? THAT was one of Rory's points, the one you missed. Um, no, I don't think that was one of Rory's points. I think that was one you imagined. What does it say about you, Barry, that you want me to run out of posts? What are you so afraid of? Think carefully before you answer that. You haven't left yourself many options here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. Uh-huh. Who has just been suckered into making 27 of her 35 posts for the week in only slightly over 24 hours? Who is going to waste at least one and probably more posts answering this one, all the while claiming that she's not being manipulated? :-) And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. All he had to do was keep replying, and you took yourself out of the game. After you've done not being manipulated by this post, you'll be sitting in the penalty box for the rest of the week, still never having been manipulated. THAT was one of Rory's points, the one you missed. Looks like she got you that time. :-) One way to deal with paranoids is to pander to their fantasies. :-) Or, saying it another way, one way to deal with humans who have come to believe that their ego is real is to pander to that ego *as if* it were real...support its fantasies...and allow the fantasies to lead the human into suffering...which will eventually lead it to liberation. If you'd spent more time with a hands on teacher, you'd recognize the technique. :-) Looks like I got you that time. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like I got you that time. :-) Looks like You ALL got me! Dang, I LOVE You guys! :-) :-) :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 4, 2007, at 7:09 PM, authfriend wrote: And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. Actually not. Rather, because Vaj felt the need to respond to my reminder of his earlier lie by lying some more, again and again, compulsively, about his faux-Google search, until he finally got so strung out he became incoherent. I pointed out the precise nature of Gratzon's book as it directly relates to 'do nothing, achieve everything', how he conceals the principle with a catchy title and how it links to literally hundreds of web sites. There was nothing more to say once the point was made clear. I'd even go further and say that Mahesh's 'do nothing, achieve everything' sales pitch is one of the more popular new age gimmicks out there. Given my own first hand experience of the same phenom and numerous others on this very list, it's pretty damn clear what a dissembler, manipulator, red herring merchant and liar you really are. Not that I (or many here) were at all surprised. ;-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 4, 2007, at 6:28 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only way he knows how to deal with people is to try to manipulate them. That has never worked with me. Uh-huh. Who has just been suckered into making 27 of her 35 posts for the week in only slightly over 24 hours? Who is going to waste at least one and probably more posts answering this one, all the while claiming that she's not being manipulated? Tune in next week as I get Judy to use her posts in record time with the return of my favorite topic: The Effortless Lie III
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 7:09 PM, authfriend wrote: And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. Actually not. Rather, because Vaj felt the need to respond to my reminder of his earlier lie by lying some more, again and again, compulsively, about his faux-Google search, until he finally got so strung out he became incoherent. I pointed out the precise nature of Gratzon's book as it directly relates to 'do nothing, achieve everything', how he conceals the principle with a catchy title horselaugh Right, Vaj. The title is The Lazy Way to Success: How to Do Nothing and Accomplish Everything. That sure is a great way to conceal the principle, by putting it in the title of the book. and how it links to literally hundreds of web sites. But none of that has ever been in dispute, of course. Here's the lie Vaj told: if you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. In fact, virtually every Google hit on the phrase is tied to Gratzon's book, which is not, of course, a get rich quick scheme. What Vaj wanted readers to believe was that there were multiple get-rich-quick schemes--pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes, multilevel marketing schemes, real estate schemes, etc.--out there being perpetrated by TMers using Do nothing and accomplish everything as the hook. That wasn't true. Vaj knew it wasn't true. Now, the lie having been exposed, in desperation Vaj is trying to pretend Gratzon's book is itself a get-rich-quick scheme. But not only is that not what he said initially, it's not true either. Gratzon's book, as I've already noted, is very much along the create-your-own-reality lines of The Secret, but geared specifically toward business. There are no schemes in it. It's pop psychology/philosophy with mystical overtones. As Vaj knows, I hold no brief for Gratzon's approach. My only point is that it isn't what Vaj claims, a get-rich-quick scheme. Someone might well use the approach to attempt to get rich quickly, but that's quite different from what Vaj wanted readers to think when he made his initial comment. Nor, as Vaj also knows, have I ever suggested TMers have *not* been involved in actual get- rich-quick schemes, either as perpetrators or dupes. That wasn't what I was addressing. But Vaj has knowingly falsely claimed it was my argument, using all kinds of ad hominem: that I didn't know what I was talking about because I was only on the periphery of the movement (I'm not even on the periphery and have said so many times, but that's totally irrelevant to the issue of Vaj's lie), that I was a course reject (completely false), that I have led a sequestered life (laughably false), that I have dissembled and attempted to suppress something-or-other (by that time he was so incoherent I couldn't even be sure what he was accusing me of). None of this was true, not a single word, and Vaj knows it. There was nothing more to say once the point was made clear. I'd even go further and say that Mahesh's 'do nothing, achieve everything' sales pitch is one of the more popular new age gimmicks out there. Of course it is. It's been around practically forever in one form or another. That was never in dispute, Vaj's silly attempts to make it the issue notwithstanding. Given my own first hand experience of the same phenom and numerous others on this very list, it's pretty damn clear what a dissembler, manipulator, red herring merchant and liar you really are. Not that I (or many here) were at all surprised. ;-) In his desperate attempts to confuse the issue so as to cover up the fact of his original lie, Vaj has piled lies on top of lies. And he's still at it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
People are being slaughtered in Darfur, the planet is beginning to roast and the ice-caps melting, some are sleeping on the streets tonight, others are sick with no healthcare, a number of alzheimer's patients are in dreaded fear because they can't remember where they are, who these people are, and even who they are, AIDs is devestating Africa, the bush administation and a good portion of congress continue to lie through their teeth, the education system is in crises, smog chokes many cities, bad stuff keeps popping up in the food supply, 12 million immigrants are in the US illegally -- yet with little prospects back home, terrorists plot and plot, Iraq is a quagmire, the deficit is out of control, medicare is doomed .. the the worst lie, injustice and the thing that needs fixing the most in your heirarchy of things that need fixing is that 2 months ago Vaj slurred a story in which he made a low consequence assertion incorrectly??? !!! YIKES!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 7:09 PM, authfriend wrote: And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. Actually not. Rather, because Vaj felt the need to respond to my reminder of his earlier lie by lying some more, again and again, compulsively, about his faux-Google search, until he finally got so strung out he became incoherent. I pointed out the precise nature of Gratzon's book as it directly relates to 'do nothing, achieve everything', how he conceals the principle with a catchy title horselaugh Right, Vaj. The title is The Lazy Way to Success: How to Do Nothing and Accomplish Everything. That sure is a great way to conceal the principle, by putting it in the title of the book. and how it links to literally hundreds of web sites. But none of that has ever been in dispute, of course. Here's the lie Vaj told: if you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. In fact, virtually every Google hit on the phrase is tied to Gratzon's book, which is not, of course, a get rich quick scheme. What Vaj wanted readers to believe was that there were multiple get-rich-quick schemes--pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes, multilevel marketing schemes, real estate schemes, etc.--out there being perpetrated by TMers using Do nothing and accomplish everything as the hook. That wasn't true. Vaj knew it wasn't true. Now, the lie having been exposed, in desperation Vaj is trying to pretend Gratzon's book is itself a get-rich-quick scheme. But not only is that not what he said initially, it's not true either. Gratzon's book, as I've already noted, is very much along the create-your-own-reality lines of The Secret, but geared specifically toward business. There are no schemes in it. It's pop psychology/philosophy with mystical overtones. As Vaj knows, I hold no brief for Gratzon's approach. My only point is that it isn't what Vaj claims, a get-rich-quick scheme. Someone might well use the approach to attempt to get rich quickly, but that's quite different from what Vaj wanted readers to think when he made his initial comment. Nor, as Vaj also knows, have I ever suggested TMers have *not* been involved in actual get- rich-quick schemes, either as perpetrators or dupes. That wasn't what I was addressing. But Vaj has knowingly falsely claimed it was my argument, using all kinds of ad hominem: that I didn't know what I was talking about because I was only on the periphery of the movement (I'm not even on the periphery and have said so many times, but that's totally irrelevant to the issue of Vaj's lie), that I was a course reject (completely false), that I have led a sequestered life (laughably false), that I have dissembled and attempted to suppress something-or-other (by that time he was so incoherent I couldn't even be sure what he was accusing me of). None of this was true, not a single word, and Vaj knows it. There was nothing more to say once the point was made clear. I'd even go further and say that Mahesh's 'do nothing, achieve everything' sales pitch is one of the more popular new age gimmicks out there. Of course it is. It's been around practically forever in one form or another. That was never in dispute, Vaj's silly attempts to make it the issue notwithstanding. Given my own first hand experience of the same phenom and numerous others on this very list, it's pretty damn clear what a dissembler, manipulator, red herring merchant and liar you really are. Not that I (or many here) were at all surprised. ;-) In his desperate attempts to confuse the issue so as to cover up the fact of his original lie, Vaj has piled lies on top of lies. And he's still at it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 4, 2007, at 7:09 PM, authfriend wrote: And all because you felt the need to trash Vaj. Actually not. Rather, because Vaj felt the need to respond to my reminder of his earlier lie by lying some more, again and again, compulsively, about his faux-Google search, until he finally got so strung out he became incoherent. I pointed out the precise nature of Gratzon's book as it directly relates to 'do nothing, achieve everything', how he conceals the principle with a catchy title horselaugh Right, Vaj. The title is The Lazy Way to Success: How to Do Nothing and Accomplish Everything. That sure is a great way to conceal the principle, by putting it in the title of the book. and how it links to literally hundreds of web sites. But none of that has ever been in dispute, of course. Here's the lie Vaj told: if you do a web search for 'Do nothing and accomplish everything' the phrase is usually tied to get rich quick schemes. In fact, virtually every Google hit on the phrase is tied to Gratzon's book, which is not, of course, a get rich quick scheme. What Vaj wanted readers to believe was that there were multiple get-rich-quick schemes--pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes, multilevel marketing schemes, real estate schemes, etc.--out there being perpetrated by TMers using Do nothing and accomplish everything as the hook. That wasn't true. Vaj knew it wasn't true. Now, the lie having been exposed, in desperation Vaj is trying to pretend Gratzon's book is itself a get-rich-quick scheme. But not only is that not what he said initially, it's not true either. Gratzon's book, as I've already noted, is very much along the create-your-own-reality lines of The Secret, but geared specifically toward business. There are no schemes in it. It's pop psychology/philosophy with mystical overtones. As Vaj knows, I hold no brief for Gratzon's approach. My only point is that it isn't what Vaj claims, a get-rich-quick scheme. Someone might well use the approach to attempt to get rich quickly, but that's quite different from what Vaj wanted readers to think when he made his initial comment. Nor, as Vaj also knows, have I ever suggested TMers have *not* been involved in actual get- rich-quick schemes, either as perpetrators or dupes. That wasn't what I was addressing. But Vaj has knowingly falsely claimed it was my argument, using all kinds of ad hominem: that I didn't know what I was talking about because I was only on the periphery of the movement (I'm not even on the periphery and have said so many times, but that's totally irrelevant to the issue of Vaj's lie), that I was a course reject (completely false), that I have led a sequestered life (laughably false), that I have dissembled and attempted to suppress something-or-other (by that time he was so incoherent I couldn't even be sure what he was accusing me of). None of this was true, not a single word, and Vaj knows it. There was nothing more to say once the point was made clear. I'd even go further and say that Mahesh's 'do nothing, achieve everything' sales pitch is one of the more popular new age gimmicks out there. Of course it is. It's been around practically forever in one form or another. That was never in dispute, Vaj's silly attempts to make it the issue notwithstanding. Given my own first hand experience of the same phenom and numerous others on this very list, it's pretty damn clear what a dissembler, manipulator, red herring merchant and liar you really are. Not that I (or many here) were at all surprised. ;-) In his desperate attempts to confuse the issue so as to cover up the fact of his original lie, Vaj has piled lies on top of lies. And he's still at it. I am beginning to think that Vaj means House of Cards in Tibetanese.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People are being slaughtered in Darfur, the planet is beginning to roast and the ice-caps melting, some are sleeping on the streets tonight, others are sick with no healthcare, a number of alzheimer's patients are in dreaded fear because they can't remember where they are, who these people are, and even who they are, AIDs is devestating Africa, the bush administation and a good portion of congress continue to lie through their teeth, the education system is in crises, smog chokes many cities, bad stuff keeps popping up in the food supply, 12 million immigrants are in the US illegally -- yet with little prospects back home, terrorists plot and plot, Iraq is a quagmire, the deficit is out of control, medicare is doomed .. the the worst lie, injustice and the thing that needs fixing the most in your heirarchy of things that need fixing is that 2 months ago Vaj slurred a story in which he made a low consequence assertion incorrectly??? !!! YIKES!! And you are hanging on every word it appears, drawing conclusions, leaping to logical inferences, making comparisons, perhaps even coming to judgment? Which one is attached to this pile of sentences, in lieu of agonizing over the world's ills? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: People are being slaughtered in Darfur, the planet is beginning to roast and the ice-caps melting, some are sleeping on the streets tonight, others are sick with no healthcare, a number of alzheimer's patients are in dreaded fear because they can't remember where they are, who these people are, and even who they are, AIDs is devestating Africa, the bush administation and a good portion of congress continue to lie through their teeth, the education system is in crises, smog chokes many cities, bad stuff keeps popping up in the food supply, 12 million immigrants are in the US illegally -- yet with little prospects back home, terrorists plot and plot, Iraq is a quagmire, the deficit is out of control, medicare is doomed .. the the worst lie, injustice and the thing that needs fixing the most in your heirarchy of things that need fixing is that 2 months ago Vaj slurred a story in which he made a low consequence assertion incorrectly??? !!! YIKES!! And you are hanging on every word it appears, drawing conclusions, leaping to logical inferences, making comparisons, perhaps even coming to judgment? Which one is attached to this pile of sentences, in lieu of agonizing over the world's ills? :-) If your statement made much sense, and had at least a bare thin thread of relevance or accuracy to me, I might try to respond. Sadly ... :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: People are being slaughtered in Darfur, the planet is beginning to roast and the ice-caps melting, some are sleeping on the streets tonight, others are sick with no healthcare, a number of alzheimer's patients are in dreaded fear because they can't remember where they are, who these people are, and even who they are, AIDs is devestating Africa, the bush administation and a good portion of congress continue to lie through their teeth, the education system is in crises, smog chokes many cities, bad stuff keeps popping up in the food supply, 12 million immigrants are in the US illegally -- yet with little prospects back home, terrorists plot and plot, Iraq is a quagmire, the deficit is out of control, medicare is doomed .. the the worst lie, injustice and the thing that needs fixing the most in your heirarchy of things that need fixing is that 2 months ago Vaj slurred a story in which he made a low consequence assertion incorrectly??? !!! YIKES!! And you are hanging on every word it appears, drawing conclusions, leaping to logical inferences, making comparisons, perhaps even coming to judgment? Which one is attached to this pile of sentences, in lieu of agonizing over the world's ills? :-) If your statement made much sense, and had at least a bare thin thread of relevance or accuracy to me, I might try to respond. Sadly ... :) Why try to respond?? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Fine. What happened to Ron Decter ? He was in a business called Governor's Technologies with John Cowhig and Gregg Wilson which aggressively solicited investments from meditators and then failed, causing them to lose whatever they had invested (in one case, a fellow's entire inheritance). Probably healthy for them to loose their attachments. Do you know what Ron Dector is doing these days ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Fine. What happened to Ron Decter ? He was in a business called Governor's Technologies with John Cowhig and Gregg Wilson which aggressively solicited investments from meditators and then failed, causing them to lose whatever they had invested (in one case, a fellow's entire inheritance). Probably healthy for them to loose their attachments. Do you know what Ron Dector is doing these days ? what an idiotic thing to say. i know 4 people who lost $50,000+ and believe me they haven't lost any attachments to money - they're more attached than ever due to their financial difficulties. the one thing they lost which is good is their gullibility to shameless movement liars.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Fine. What happened to Ron Decter ? He was in a business called Governor's Technologies with John Cowhig and Gregg Wilson which aggressively solicited investments from meditators and then failed, causing them to lose whatever they had invested (in one case, a fellow's entire inheritance). Probably healthy for them to loose their attachments. Do you know what Ron Dector is doing these days ? what an idiotic thing to say. i know 4 people who lost $50,000+ and believe me they haven't lost any attachments to money - they're more attached than ever due to their financial difficulties. the one thing they lost which is good is their gullibility to shameless movement liars. Ron et al were still in the Movement when this happened ? Anyway, I'm sorry to hear that they apparently learned nothing from this.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 6:43 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda On Jun 2, 2007, at 6:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Fine. What happened to Ron Decter ? He was in a business called Governor's Technologies with John Cowhig and Gregg Wilson which aggressively solicited investments What were they supposed to be investments for? Was it a scam? No. It was a company which was trying to develop a technology for converting Canada's tar sands into petroleum. The company was not a scam, though it went belly up, but the aggressive way in which they raised money from meditators most of whom had no business investing in high risk venture capital was unethical IMO. Actually the company recently won a lawsuit from the labs involved and the investors should be getting a little money back - if you invested in Governors Technologies you should be getting in touch with them to make sure you get what you're due. I don't trust them to make sure they distribute the lawsuit proceeds properly to the investors (vis a vis the management).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? ...seems perfectly viable as an answer to me. What happened to him? He became a prick and ripped off gullible cult members. What more do I need to know than that? So it never occured to you that Ron belived in the business plan himself ? Doesn't matter what Ron believed in. He had no business or technology experience whatsoever or basis for intelligently evaluating the process - his experience was with MMY which means he was trained to believe in outrageous grand schemes and that everything he, cowhig and wilson did would have complete support of nature and be a huge success, which is how the thing was marketing to fellow thinking sidhas. If some multi-millionaire sidha wanted to bet $50,000 on the deal working out, that's fine with me, that's how venture capital works, but they aggressively kept going after sidhas and encouraging them to put substantial portions of their entire net worth into the deal. The fundraisers like ron all made commissions that way. Even if Ron believed in it himself, you shouldn't make money selling venture capital that way to inexperienced investors.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? ...seems perfectly viable as an answer to me. What happened to him? He became a prick and ripped off gullible cult members. What more do I need to know than that? So it never occured to you that Ron belived in the business plan himself ? Doesn't matter what Ron believed in. He had no business or technology experience whatsoever or basis for intelligently evaluating the process - his experience was with MMY which means he was trained to believe in outrageous grand schemes and that everything he, cowhig and wilson did would have complete support of nature and be a huge success, which is how the thing was marketing to fellow thinking sidhas. If some multi-millionaire sidha wanted to bet $50,000 on the deal working out, that's fine with me, that's how venture capital works, but they aggressively kept going after sidhas and encouraging them to put substantial portions of their entire net worth into the deal. The fundraisers like ron all made commissions that way. Even if Ron believed in it himself, you shouldn't make money selling venture capital that way to inexperienced investors. Why not ? That was America, right ? The country that invented capitalism and developed it to put billions of people all over the world into slavery. These investors was just caught up in the greed of their own culture. To blame Dector or anyone else for that is redicelous.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, boo_lives wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. That's funny, because there was a 60 Minutes segment on the gold mine this is supposed to bring to this section of Canada. They even showed how they were going to process it. It's only profitable if oil is at a certain dollar per barrel and we are way above that number (40 USD a barrel). http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/20/60minutes/main1225184.shtml
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 7:01 AM, boo_lives wrote: Doesn't matter what Ron believed in. He had no business or technology experience whatsoever or basis for intelligently evaluating the process - his experience was with MMY which means he was trained to believe in outrageous grand schemes and that everything he, cowhig and wilson did would have complete support of nature and be a huge success Are any of these guys living in FF or still have anything to do with the TMO? And when did this happen, approximately? Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, boo_lives wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. Typical TMO get rich quick scheme. I wonder how many other similar get rich quick schemes were inspired by the belief that since they had natural law behind them, they were invincible.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't matter what Ron believed in. He had no business or technology experience whatsoever or basis for intelligently evaluating the process - his experience was with MMY which means he was trained to believe in outrageous grand schemes and that everything he, cowhig and wilson did would have complete support of nature and be a huge success, which is how the thing was marketing to fellow thinking sidhas. If some multi-millionaire sidha wanted to bet $50,000 on the deal working out, that's fine with me, that's how venture capital works, but they aggressively kept going after sidhas and encouraging them to put substantial portions of their entire net worth into the deal. The fundraisers like ron all made commissions that way. Even if Ron believed in it himself, you shouldn't make money selling venture capital that way to inexperienced investors. I get your point, but to fail to accept that one has made a bad choice just perpetuates victimhood. Ron holds some reponsibility for the lost $'s, but so does the investor who allowed their greed to be manipulated. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, boo_lives wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. That's funny, because there was a 60 Minutes segment on the gold mine this is supposed to bring to this section of Canada. Let's see now, the company was trying to develop a technology for converting Canada's tar sands into petroleum, and the fact that it wasn't successful at doing so is funny because tar sands exploitation is highly profitable for Canada? How does that work, exactly?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 9:57 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, boo_lives wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. That's funny, because there was a 60 Minutes segment on the gold mine this is supposed to bring to this section of Canada. Let's see now, the company was trying to develop a technology for converting Canada's tar sands into petroleum, and the fact that it wasn't successful at doing so is funny because tar sands exploitation is highly profitable for Canada? How does that work, exactly? They lied or were simply unknowledgable about the viability of the technology to do so. Most likely the latter. Mahesh Varma has a rather large reality distortion field.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. When I lived in Ffld in the mid 80's there were many people that had this type of distorted thinking. They thought that any business venture they undertook would work because they were siddhas. Most had rather rude awakenings when their businesses just flopped from the git-go. Support of nature doesn't simply mean one gets what one desires. That is the child's version of understanding Nature. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Peter wrote: When I lived in Ffld in the mid 80's there were many people that had this type of distorted thinking. They thought that any business venture they undertook would work because they were siddhas. Most had rather rude awakenings when their businesses just flopped from the git-go. Support of nature doesn't simply mean one gets what one desires. That is the child's version of understanding Nature. Well said. The do nothing and accomplish everything motto was often urging such people on--and their sad investors paid the price.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Fine. What happened to Ron Decter ? He was in a business called Governor's Technologies with John Cowhig and Gregg Wilson which aggressively solicited investments from meditators and then failed, causing them to lose whatever they had invested (in one case, a fellow's entire inheritance). Probably healthy for them to loose their attachments. Do you know what Ron Dector is doing these days ? A quick Google search says his most recent gig is managing a luxury spa in the Philippines.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 9:57 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, boo_lives wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. That's funny, because there was a 60 Minutes segment on the gold mine this is supposed to bring to this section of Canada. Let's see now, the company was trying to develop a technology for converting Canada's tar sands into petroleum, and the fact that it wasn't successful at doing so is funny because tar sands exploitation is highly profitable for Canada? How does that work, exactly? They lied or were simply unknowledgable about the viability of the technology to do so. Most likely the latter. I'm asking why not being knowledgeable about the viability of the technology would be funny in light of the potential profits for Canada. I don't see the connection between the two.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Peter wrote: When I lived in Ffld in the mid 80's there were many people that had this type of distorted thinking. They thought that any business venture they undertook would work because they were siddhas. Most had rather rude awakenings when their businesses just flopped from the git-go. Support of nature doesn't simply mean one gets what one desires. That is the child's version of understanding Nature. Well said. The do nothing and accomplish everything motto was often urging such people on--and their sad investors paid the price. Ah, yes, I remember all the Google links you claim to have found to get-rich-quick schemes when you did a search on Do nothing and accomplish everything. Turns out you made that up. There were no such links.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 11:13 AM, authfriend wrote: They lied or were simply unknowledgable about the viability of the technology to do so. Most likely the latter. I'm asking why not being knowledgeable about the viability of the technology would be funny in light of the potential profits for Canada. I don't see the connection between the two. The reason that would be difficult to explain or understand; strange, would be because there was immense opportunity for people to actually make returns on invested sums of money *if they knew the market*. It's strange that people would exploit that for a half-baked scheme rather than take advantage of real, viable opportunities for investment which clearly are there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 7:01 AM, boo_lives wrote: Doesn't matter what Ron believed in. He had no business or technology experience whatsoever or basis for intelligently evaluating the process - his experience was with MMY which means he was trained to believe in outrageous grand schemes and that everything he, cowhig and wilson did would have complete support of nature and be a huge success Are any of these guys living in FF or still have anything to do with the TMO? And when did this happen, approximately? Sal None are in Ffld. I've heard that Cowhig has a real job now and even a girlfriend and is turning into a normal guy, positive but not fanatical about the TMO. the Governors investment thing happened in the mid to late 90s.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 11:17 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Peter wrote: When I lived in Ffld in the mid 80's there were many people that had this type of distorted thinking. They thought that any business venture they undertook would work because they were siddhas. Most had rather rude awakenings when their businesses just flopped from the git-go. Support of nature doesn't simply mean one gets what one desires. That is the child's version of understanding Nature. Well said. The do nothing and accomplish everything motto was often urging such people on--and their sad investors paid the price. Ah, yes, I remember all the Google links you claim to have found to get-rich-quick schemes when you did a search on Do nothing and accomplish everything. Turns out you made that up. There were no such links Actually not, there was a book written on it (rather popular and used outside the authors own lectures), which of course you tried to explain away unconvincingly. And of course I'm directly aware a number of such schemes myself, having been on recent retreat (several years ago) with an attorney involved in several schemes and lots of lost money. Apparently, others are as well.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of boo_lives Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:33 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Are any of these guys living in FF or still have anything to do with the TMO? And when did this happen, approximately? Sal None are in Ffld. I've heard that Cowhig has a real job now and even a girlfriend and is turning into a normal guy, positive but not fanatical about the TMO. the Governors investment thing happened in the mid to late 90s. Last winter John's sister Margaret told me that John had a job which involved walking around in the woods looking for pieces of wood suitable for making guitars. Sounds like a great job, if it pays well enough.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vaj Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:33 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda On Jun 3, 2007, at 11:17 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, yes, I remember all the Google links you claim to have found to get-rich-quick schemes when you did a search on Do nothing and accomplish everything. Turns out you made that up. There were no such links Actually not, there was a book written on it I think you're referring to this: http://lazyway.blogs.com/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:17 AM, authfriend wrote: Ah, yes, I remember all the Google links you claim to have found to get-rich-quick schemes when you did a search on Do nothing and accomplish everything. Turns out you made that up. There were no such links. Actually I was the one who did the search (maybe Vaj did too) and there are, at least now, over 1000 for that phrase, nearly all of them a sales pitch for a book by Fred Gratzon, which does indeed sound like a get-rich quick scheme. Here is an excerpt from of one of the articles: The Lazy Way to Success: How to Do Nothing and Accomplish Everything By Fred Gratzon, Author of The Lazy Way to Success I don't believe in work. And I could never hold a job. Then again, I never really wanted one. I only took a job when I got absolutely desperate. Even still, it didn't take long for me to get fired. Or to run out screaming. *** Or, he might have added, to go bankrupt several times and still live in a McMansion, all while acting like others are so much lower than you on the evolutionary scale. Maybe he'll write a book on that someday. http://www.mindpowernews.com/LazyWayToSuccess.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:32 AM, boo_lives wrote: None are in Ffld. I've heard that Cowhig has a real job now and even a girlfriend and is turning into a normal guy, positive but not fanatical about the TMO. the Governors investment thing happened in the mid to late 90s. Thanks. And I just read that, at least as of last year, Gregg and Georgina were still doing the TM-Sidhi Administrator bit--didn't say where they were living, though. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. Not an isolated incident. I know of two sidhas who in the early '80s took investment money from sidhas (non-governor meditators at that) for a business scheme of theirs and promptly used the money to go on the India course.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 11:17 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Peter wrote: When I lived in Ffld in the mid 80's there were many people that had this type of distorted thinking. They thought that any business venture they undertook would work because they were siddhas. Most had rather rude awakenings when their businesses just flopped from the git-go. Support of nature doesn't simply mean one gets what one desires. That is the child's version of understanding Nature. Well said. The do nothing and accomplish everything motto was often urging such people on--and their sad investors paid the price. Ah, yes, I remember all the Google links you claim to have found to get-rich-quick schemes when you did a search on Do nothing and accomplish everything. Turns out you made that up. There were no such links Actually not, there was a book written on it (rather popular and used outside the authors own lectures), which of course you tried to explain away unconvincingly. No, sorry, that's another falsehood. There were no links to get-rich-quick schemes under that phrase. The book you refer to was not even *remotely* a get- rich-quick scheme, as is obvious from the descriptive material on the book (Fred Gratzon's The Lazy Way to Success: How to Do Nothing and Accomplish Everything); no explanation from me required. See, e.g., the reader reviews on Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/3d8xuc Or the book's own Web page: http://www.lazyway.net What was unconvincing was your response to my request to cite the links you claim to have found: No because you just want to start an argument. Translation: No, because there weren't any. You made it up out of whole cloth. And you continue to lie about it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
Yes, indeedee. But I'd also point out, many others following the precise same philosophy have come on disastrous results without ever having read this book. My primary and first hand experience on this was from others who had this almost childish, movement-derived distorted thinking Dr. Pete refers to. On Jun 3, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Rick Archer wrote: Actually not, there was a book written on it I think you’re referring to this: http://lazyway.blogs.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, boo_lives wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. That's funny, because there was a 60 Minutes segment on the gold mine this is supposed to bring to this section of Canada. They even showed how they were going to process it. It's only profitable if oil is at a certain dollar per barrel and we are way above that number (40 USD a barrel). http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/20/60minutes/main1225184.shtml I've written about the tar sands on this forum quite frequently. There is more potential oil in Alberta's tar sands than there are proven reserves of oil in the entire world combined. But there are two types of tar sands: a) retrievable under current technologies (and this represents about 15% of all potential reserves); and b) economically unretrievable under current technologies, which is the bulk of the tar sands. I suspect that it was the latter category under which the sidhas in question were raising venture capital for.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 PM, boo_lives wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? the investors bear ultimate responsibility, but i heard their sale pitch (cowhig, dector and wilson)and it basically took advantage of naive sidhas belief that nothing could go wrong investing with guys who were so close to MMY. completely unbusineslike and unethical. Typical TMO get rich quick scheme. I wonder how many other similar get rich quick schemes were inspired by the belief that since they had natural law behind them, they were invincible. I've not only seen numerous get-rich-quick schemes unethically and dishonestly represented by sidhas but I've also seen sidhas use the weight of the movement to manipulate people in regular business situations to get unfair advantages. Such as: if you don't join OUR marketing team, you're an enemy of the Movement.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Peter wrote: When I lived in Ffld in the mid 80's there were many people that had this type of distorted thinking. They thought that any business venture they undertook would work because they were siddhas. Most had rather rude awakenings when their businesses just flopped from the git-go. Support of nature doesn't simply mean one gets what one desires. That is the child's version of understanding Nature. Well said. The do nothing and accomplish everything motto was often urging such people on--and their sad investors paid the price. Although I agree generally with all the points Vaj is making here about Sidhas and their unethical behaviour with get-rich-quick schemes, I would remind everyone that over 90% of ALL business ventures in the real world (i.e. non-meditating community) fail within the first 6 months of their existance. So businesses that flop from the git-go is NOT unusual; it is par for the course.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? ...seems perfectly viable as an answer to me. What happened to him? He became a prick and ripped off gullible cult members. What more do I need to know than that? So it never occured to you that Ron belived in the business plan himself ? I have absolutely no doubt that virtually every single one of the thousands of businessmen/swindlers currently sitting in prison for fraud believed in their hearts of hearts that the schemes they foisted upon a gullible public not only would work but that what they were doing was both ethical and justified by the rewards they promised would result from said schemes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Fine. What happened to Ron Decter ? He was in a business called Governor's Technologies with John Cowhig and Gregg Wilson which aggressively solicited investments from meditators and then failed, causing them to lose whatever they had invested (in one case, a fellow's entire inheritance).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 stephen4359@ wrote: Thats an ugly non-answer to the question What happened to Ron Dector ? ...seems perfectly viable as an answer to me. What happened to him? He became a prick and ripped off gullible cult members. What more do I need to know than that? So it never occured to you that Ron belived in the business plan himself ? Doesn't matter what Ron believed in. He had no business or technology experience whatsoever or basis for intelligently evaluating the process - his experience was with MMY which means he was trained to believe in outrageous grand schemes and that everything he, cowhig and wilson did would have complete support of nature and be a huge success, which is how the thing was marketing to fellow thinking sidhas. If some multi-millionaire sidha wanted to bet $50,000 on the deal working out, that's fine with me, that's how venture capital works, Actually, boo_lives, I'm going to be a little nitpicky with you here: no, that is NOT how venture capital works, that's how speculative investments work. Venture capital is a well-coordinated, well-researched enterprise. There are 10s of billions of dollars invested every year by Venture Capital firms who represent capital pools from highly respected sources, such as the major banks and mutual funds. Less than 1% of all applicants who approach Venture Capital firms asking for money for their schemes actually get funded. The kind of thing that Dector et al did was go to individual investors for money and this is NOT venture capital money. Venture capitalists are usually MBAs with years of experience in not only investing but in the rather narrow fields of expertise that they exclusively invest their firms money in (such as high tech areas). These were NOT the targets of Dector's and Cowhig's sales pitches because they would, of course, been laughed out of the board room where they would have had to go to make their pitch in the first place (and that's a big if right there because it assumes that they would have been able to get IN to Venture Capital board rooms to pitch in the first place, which is highly unlikely. Speculation investing and Venture capital investing are two entirely different markets. but they aggressively kept going after sidhas and encouraging them to put substantial portions of their entire net worth into the deal. The fundraisers like ron all made commissions that way. Even if Ron believed in it himself, you shouldn't make money selling venture capital that way to inexperienced investors.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of boo_lives Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:33 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Are any of these guys living in FF or still have anything to do with the TMO? And when did this happen, approximately? Sal None are in Ffld. I've heard that Cowhig has a real job now and even a girlfriend and is turning into a normal guy, positive but not fanatical about the TMO. the Governors investment thing happened in the mid to late 90s. Last winter John's sister Margaret told me that John had a job which involved walking around in the woods looking for pieces of wood suitable for making guitars. Sounds like a great job, if it pays well enough. In other words: he's a loser living in a van down by the river.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 12:06 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: Typical TMO get rich quick scheme. I wonder how many other similar get rich quick schemes were inspired by the belief that since they had natural law behind them, they were invincible. I've not only seen numerous get-rich-quick schemes unethically and dishonestly represented by sidhas but I've also seen sidhas use the weight of the movement to manipulate people in regular business situations to get unfair advantages. Such as: if you don't join OUR marketing team, you're an enemy of the Movement. Now that's *really* bad. Sheesh, it gets worse the closer you look.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:13 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda I have absolutely no doubt that virtually every single one of the thousands of businessmen/swindlers currently sitting in prison for fraud believed in their hearts of hearts that the schemes they foisted upon a gullible public not only would work but that what they were doing was both ethical and justified by the rewards they promised would result from said schemes. I tend to avoid in-town clients because there seems to be a greater than usual tendency for people to involve others unwittingly in their business schemes. In other words, they hire contractors to perform services on the assumption that they will pay them when their business profits, without telling them that the likelihood of its doing so is slim.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:27 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Last winter John's sister Margaret told me that John had a job which involved walking around in the woods looking for pieces of wood suitable for making guitars. Sounds like a great job, if it pays well enough. In other words: he's a loser living in a van down by the river. We'll see how things end up for John. He is a very bright guy. BTW, you've made 24 posts since Friday at midnight, so you've only got 11 more to go between now and next Friday. Better pace yourself.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 10:17 AM, authfriend wrote: Ah, yes, I remember all the Google links you claim to have found to get-rich-quick schemes when you did a search on Do nothing and accomplish everything. Turns out you made that up. There were no such links. Actually I was the one who did the search (maybe Vaj did too) I'm referring to Vaj's claim that a Google search on the phrase would turn up many links to get-rich- quick schemes. and there are, at least now, over 1000 for that phrase, nearly all of them a sales pitch for a book by Fred Gratzon, which does indeed sound like a get-rich quick scheme. No, it doesn't. Unless you have an exceptionally idiosyncratic definition of get-rich-quick scheme. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get-rich-quick_scheme The book is about how to be successful without knocking yourself out, and it's based on *MMY's* version of Do nothing and accomplish everything, i.e., effortlessness. There's no scheme involved other than knowing how to accomplish things effortlessly. (He recommends TM, incidentally, as the best foundation for this skill.) Here is an excerpt from of one of the articles: The Lazy Way to Success: How to Do Nothing and Accomplish Everything By Fred Gratzon, Author of The Lazy Way to Success I don't believe in work. And I could never hold a job. Then again, I never really wanted one. I only took a job when I got absolutely desperate. Even still, it didn't take long for me to get fired. Or to run out screaming. But if you read *just* a little further: I came to appreciate that hard work scares success away. Success, it turns out, is inversely proportional to hard work. In other words, the less you work, the more you succeed. Or the more you work, the less you succeed. However, there is one catch - you have to know how to avoid work properly. There is an art to gaining success through avoiding work. Once you follow the principles, then you will be able to accomplish great things and achieve as much wealth as you desire, while still preserving your health, happiness, and family life. It's really a book about self-actualization. Again, there is no scheme involved.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:27 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Last winter John's sister Margaret told me that John had a job which involved walking around in the woods looking for pieces of wood suitable for making guitars. Sounds like a great job, if it pays well enough. In other words: he's a loser living in a van down by the river. We'll see how things end up for John. He is a very bright guy. BTW, you've made 24 posts since Friday at midnight, so you've only got 11 more to go between now and next Friday. Better pace yourself. My only live contact with John Cowhig (other than seeing him on tape or beside MMY at official movement functions) was sitting beside him as a bus took me and my fellow TTC participants to a Switzerland location and Cowhig hitched a ride with us. We were beneath contempt for him. He had a frown on his face the entire time, refused to speak or interact with us and was, up to that time, the most surly, unpleasant individual I'd ever encountered. He made Michael Yankhaus look like the hugging saint by comparison.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:27 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda Last winter John's sister Margaret told me that John had a job which involved walking around in the woods looking for pieces of wood suitable for making guitars. Sounds like a great job, if it pays well enough. In other words: he's a loser living in a van down by the river. We'll see how things end up for John. He is a very bright guy. BTW, you've made 24 posts since Friday at midnight, so you've only got 11 more to go between now and next Friday. Better pace yourself. No, I prefer shooting my wad all at once. That way, once I'm put on stall mode, I tend not to log on to FFL and get distracted away from the work I have to do. Gee, am I becoming an advocate of the 35 posts a month rule? -);
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote: But if you read *just* a little further: I came to appreciate that hard work scares success away. Success, it turns out, is inversely proportional to hard work. In other words, the less you work, the more you succeed. Or the more you work, the less you succeed. Well, I must admit, from the little I know of him, Fred certainly does live that rule. Does the book mention, I wonder, the 2 companies (at least) that he ran into the ground apparently following that philosophy? Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't matter what Ron believed in. He had no business or technology experience whatsoever or basis for intelligently evaluating the process - his experience was with MMY which means he was trained to believe in outrageous grand schemes and that everything he, cowhig and wilson did would have complete support of nature and be a huge success, which is how the thing was marketing to fellow thinking sidhas. If some multi-millionaire sidha wanted to bet $50,000 on the deal working out, that's fine with me, that's how venture capital works, but they aggressively kept going after sidhas and encouraging them to put substantial portions of their entire net worth into the deal. The fundraisers like ron all made commissions that way. Even if Ron believed in it himself, you shouldn't make money selling venture capital that way to inexperienced investors. I get your point, but to fail to accept that one has made a bad choice just perpetuates victimhood. Ron holds some reponsibility for the lost $'s, but so does the investor who allowed their greed to be manipulated. I completely agree. If the deluded sidhas couldn't find anyone to invest in their schemes, there would be no victims, save the sidhas' egos. In my experience, even when I was completely sold out to the incomplete or immature understanding of support of nature, I *never* would've invested money in these programs. Believing wholeheartedly in something is far different from attempting to make money on it, resorting to magical thinking out of greed or desperation. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I came to appreciate that hard work scares success away. Success, it turns out, is inversely proportional to hard work. In other words, the less you work, the more you succeed. Or the more you work, the less you succeed. However, there is one catch - you have to know how to avoid work properly. There is an art to gaining success through avoiding work. Once you follow the principles, then you will be able to accomplish great things and achieve as much wealth as you desire, while still preserving your health, happiness, and family life. It's really a book about self-actualization. Again, there is no scheme involved. From the excerpts you have printed, I can kind of understand where this guy is coming from, however I'd rephrase the above quote to say something like, hard work without applying intelligence to it, and without always keeping the big picture in mind, will not result in success. But the expression as quoted, that one works less to succeed more, is very misleading, and if used out of context is just an incorrect view of life. :-)
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shempmcgurk Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:43 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda My only live contact with John Cowhig (other than seeing him on tape or beside MMY at official movement functions) was sitting beside him as a bus took me and my fellow TTC participants to a Switzerland location and Cowhig hitched a ride with us. We were beneath contempt for him. He had a frown on his face the entire time, refused to speak or interact with us and was, up to that time, the most surly, unpleasant individual I'd ever encountered. He made Michael Yankhaus look like the hugging saint by comparison. My experience with John was always quite the opposite. He was the most personable and down-to-earth of MMY's secretaries at that time. One time I drove across Switzerland with him and another fellow in an old Mercedes with failing brakes. He entertained us most of the way with cool stories from various spiritual books I had read. Being MMY's secretary, he was under a lot of pressure to tow the line, keep secrets, etc., but he did that with grace and humor. Regarding Michael Yankaus, he went through a period of straining and being unnatural, as did many of us, but these days he is very open-minded.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 3, 2007, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote: But if you read *just* a little further: I came to appreciate that hard work scares success away. Success, it turns out, is inversely proportional to hard work. In other words, the less you work, the more you succeed. Or the more you work, the less you succeed. Well, I must admit, from the little I know of him, Fred certainly does live that rule. Does the book mention, I wonder, the 2 companies (at least) that he ran into the ground apparently following that philosophy? He tells about the disaster with the ice cream company on his blog: http://tinyurl.com/2kolo7 It begins: I've have had more than my share of dramatic business ups and downs. I've had breathtaking successes. I've had violent train wrecks. I danced euphorically with friends one day and I've experienced vicious betrayals the next. Everyone has something extraordinary to offer and, at the same time, everyone is seriously flawed. Even me. Especially me. And there's a chapter in the book called: Finding Success in Failure, Accidents, Mistakes, Obstacles, and Hardships It looks to me, from reading the material about the book from Gratzon and others, that it's very much along the lines of The Secret. I'm not endorsing Gratzon's approach, by the way, or suggesting that TMers haven't crafted or gotten suckered by get-rich-quick schemes. But Gratzon's book ain't one of 'em. My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Thats kind of a shakey supposition to feel one knows what others are thinking. For example, you don't know what I am thinking. If you are infering that lack of comment on this is a tacit approval or Vaj's post, I know you know that is quite a weak inference. When Vaj posted this several months ago, I raised my eyebrows. But to rehash it again several months later to me seems excessive. And not something I am interested in spending my time on. (As some may wonder, then why take time to write this post. Well, I fine your comments and reaction (marginally) interesting). They contrast IMO to your usual well honed logic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Thats kind of a shakey supposition to feel one knows what others are thinking. For example, you don't know what I am thinking. If you are infering that lack of comment on this is a tacit approval or Vaj's post, I know you know that is quite a weak inference. Nobody seems to think it's worthwhile making a post to say there's something wrong with it, let's put it that way. When Vaj posted this several months ago, I raised my eyebrows. Uh-huh. But did you mention this in a post? I don't recall anybody doing so then, and they certainly haven't this time around. But to rehash it again several months later to me seems excessive. Yeah, I just mentioned it in passing, but Vaj decided once again to deny the plain facts, and Sal tried to back him up. And not something I am interested in spending my time on. Right. That's what I don't understand, as I said earlier. Why is it of so little concern when people knowingly tell untruths here that put TM or the TMO or MMY or TMers, or even other FFL participants, in a bad light? But they go *bonkers* when an untruth is told that favors MMY or the TMO. (As some may wonder, then why take time to write this post. Well, I fine your comments and reaction (marginally) interesting). They contrast IMO to your usual well honed logic.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
On Jun 3, 2007, at 12:51 PM, authfriend wrote: He tells about the disaster with the ice cream company on his blog: http://tinyurl.com/2kolo7 And blames it all on others: I remember leaving for a three-week vacation to India. When I left, the ice cream business operated as a harmonious wholeness. It was highly creative and fun. Of course, we had our disagreements, but they were never strong enough to disrupt the underlying harmony and friendship. When I returned from my trip, refreshed and recharged, I was taken aside and told that while I was away, many important changes were made. Decisions, I was told, were now being made more quickly with less discussion and undisciplined input. The sounded okay until I was told that while I was away, they cut the funding for two of my pet projects without even asking me. And this: I’d travel to various cities, meet with the press, and gave everything I had in each interview. Three or four interviews per day for several days in a row really took it out of me. I’d come home quite tired. Added to that, I’d have been out of the loop and ignorant of all the quick decisions that were being made by the guys who were organizing the distribution. Most of our ice cream distributors did miserable jobs. One even cheated us for over a hundred thousand dollars. Yet I was the one receiving more and more criticism and resentment from my so-called friends in the office. I overheard one spouse complain, “My husband does all the work but Fred gets all the credit.” And there's a lot more where that came from: rationalizations, excuses, and absolutely no ability to take responsibility for his own company. Here's your next big project right here, Judy. This guy is apparently genetically predisposed to dishonesty. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Thats kind of a shakey supposition to feel one knows what others are thinking. For example, you don't know what I am thinking. If you are infering that lack of comment on this is a tacit approval or Vaj's post, I know you know that is quite a weak inference. Nobody seems to think it's worthwhile making a post to say there's something wrong with it, let's put it that way. When Vaj posted this several months ago, I raised my eyebrows. Uh-huh. But did you mention this in a post? No, beacuse you had already provided a clear analysis of the situation. I had nothing more to add. Repetition and redundancy is not necessarily a virtue. But to rehash it again several months later to me seems excessive. And not something I am interested in spending my time on. Right. That's what I don't understand, as I said earlier. Why is it of so little concern when people knowingly tell untruths here Again -- you are incorrectly infering that I have no concern. You clearly stated a insighful analysis several months ago, It was the definitive statement. I had nothing to add. Several months later, I still have nothing to add. So shoot me. :) Do you want me to stand on a building top and proclaim daily Vaj is a lying weasal? (not that I feel he is -- inately. But I do find some of his claims not well supported by evidence. That does not make all of them categorically untrue, only that it is not an offering that pursuades me. But they go *bonkers* when an untruth is told that favors MMY or the TMO. Since I seemed to be lumped in with them -- I suggest that the above is not something I do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
An additional point. I think we agree that false or misleading and/or not well supported claims are not a good thing. The difference in our views appears what to do about them. Individually and the whole of them taken en masse. As you know, I regularly, if not often, question people about shakey assertions. For some posters, and people in life, I have found from experience that responding to them, simply pours more fuel on their fires of distortion. And the point of responding -- reduce false claims -- is foiled as the person is inspired to spew out even more stories. And in FFL, such exchanges can and have clogged the pathways for prodictive exchanges. For some people, pointing out of shakey claims, or asking for clarifications, result in productive dialogue. For others, it just fans the fires of falsehoods and distortions. The latter is not productive, IMO. And taking all false claims one finds in life, en masse, one cannot possible respond to all of them. And even then, some responses are at best, marginally productive. As I have learneed in life, one must pick their battles. Some posts are simply not worthy of comment, IMO. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Thats kind of a shakey supposition to feel one knows what others are thinking. For example, you don't know what I am thinking. If you are infering that lack of comment on this is a tacit approval or Vaj's post, I know you know that is quite a weak inference. Nobody seems to think it's worthwhile making a post to say there's something wrong with it, let's put it that way. When Vaj posted this several months ago, I raised my eyebrows. Uh-huh. But did you mention this in a post? No, beacuse you had already provided a clear analysis of the situation. I had nothing more to add. Repetition and redundancy is not necessarily a virtue. But to rehash it again several months later to me seems excessive. And not something I am interested in spending my time on. Right. That's what I don't understand, as I said earlier. Why is it of so little concern when people knowingly tell untruths here Again -- you are incorrectly infering that I have no concern. You clearly stated a insighful analysis several months ago, It was the definitive statement. I had nothing to add. Several months later, I still have nothing to add. So shoot me. :) Do you want me to stand on a building top and proclaim daily Vaj is a lying weasal? (not that I feel he is -- inately. But I do find some of his claims not well supported by evidence. That does not make all of them categorically untrue, only that it is not an offering that pursuades me. But they go *bonkers* when an untruth is told that favors MMY or the TMO. Since I seemed to be lumped in with them -- I suggest that the above is not something I do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And there's a lot more where that came from: rationalizations, excuses, and absolutely no ability to take responsibility for his own company. Here's your next big project right here, Judy. This guy is apparently genetically predisposed to dishonesty. Well, since I don't know the facts, I'm not in a position to accuse him of dishonesty. I'm not interested in him or his spiel anyway, beyond determining that his book does not constitute a get-rich-quick scheme, as Vaj falsely alleged.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. It's interesting, I have never, even for a second, thought of anyone on this forum--or anywhere else, for that matter--as lesser than myself. That concept is just completely foreign to me and always has been, no matter how nastily they have insulted me (or someone else), no matter what kind of falsehoods the other person has told about me (or someone or something else), no matter how blatant the hypocrisy they indulge in. -- Judy Stein, four days ago
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. Thats kind of a shakey supposition to feel one knows what others are thinking. For example, you don't know what I am thinking. If you are infering that lack of comment on this is a tacit approval or Vaj's post, I know you know that is quite a weak inference. Nobody seems to think it's worthwhile making a post to say there's something wrong with it, let's put it that way. When Vaj posted this several months ago, I raised my eyebrows. Uh-huh. But did you mention this in a post? No, beacuse you had already provided a clear analysis of the situation. I had nothing more to add. Repetition and redundancy is not necessarily a virtue. But that's not the issue, of course. It's about expressing disapproval on the record. Each individual, obviously, has to do that for him- or herself. snip Do you want me to stand on a building top and proclaim daily Vaj is a lying weasal? No, a post here expressing disapproval whenever he (or anyone else) lies would be fine. [From your later post] And taking all false claims one finds in life, en masse, one cannot possible respond to all of them. Yeah, I'm just talking about the ones on this so-called spiritual forum. And even then, some responses are at best, marginally productive. As I have learned in life, one must pick their battles. But again, it isn't a matter of battles but simply of going on the record with your disapproval when a lie is told. Even one sentence would do the trick.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some posts are simply not worthy of comment, IMO. Bottom line.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. It's interesting, I have never, even for a second, thought of anyone on this forum--or anywhere else, for that matter--as lesser than myself. That concept is just completely foreign to me and always has been, no matter how nastily they have insulted me (or someone else), no matter what kind of falsehoods the other person has told about me (or someone or something else), no matter how blatant the hypocrisy they indulge in. -- Judy Stein, four days ago Right. And...? When you criticize somebody, does it make you think of them as lesser than yourself? I find that just about the ultimate in absurdity.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: No, beacuse you had already provided a clear analysis of the situation. I had nothing more to add. Repetition and redundancy is not necessarily a virtue. But that's not the issue, of course. Thats apparently not your issue. But it is one of my issues. Being a dialogue, you don't have a monoply on defining the issues worthy of discussion. It's about expressing disapproval on the record. Each individual, obviously, has to do that for him- or herself. Again, thats what is important to you. But there is no IT as in a universal truth as to what THE apporpriate an singular topic is in a open free-ranging forum such as this. This is not strict debating forum where a topic is laid out and any deviations are amout to deductions in ones score. snip Do you want me to stand on a building top and proclaim daily Vaj is a lying weasal? No, a post here expressing disapproval whenever he (or anyone else) lies would be fine. [From your later post] And taking all false claims one finds in life, en masse, one cannot possible respond to all of them. Yeah, I'm just talking about the ones on this so-called spiritual forum. But that is my point. If one cannot respond to all shakey claims in ones life, one must pick and choose. In this case, I chose not to comment on an issue someone else has covered and commented on. And as I said, sometimes a reponse just invokes more garbage, not reducing it. And even then, some responses are at best, marginally productive. As I have learned in life, one must pick their battles. But again, it isn't a matter of battles but simply of going on the record with your disapproval when a lie is told. Even one sentence would do the trick. You seem to be ignoring my point. Ok. But further discussion is probably not productive.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My only point is that Vaj did not tell the truth when he claimed there were links to get-rich-quick schemes from a Google search for the phrase Do nothing and accomplish everything, and that he continues to tell falsehoods in an attempt to cover up that unfortunate fact. As usual, though, nobody but me seems to think there's anything wrong with that. It's interesting, I have never, even for a second, thought of anyone on this forum--or anywhere else, for that matter--as lesser than myself. That concept is just completely foreign to me and always has been, no matter how nastily they have insulted me (or someone else), no matter what kind of falsehoods the other person has told about me (or someone or something else), no matter how blatant the hypocrisy they indulge in. -- Judy Stein, four days ago Right. And...? When you criticize somebody, does it make you think of them as lesser than yourself? I find that just about the ultimate in absurdity. You went away for a long weekend, hopefully to relax and chill a bit. And what happened when you returned? You've shot over a third of your wad of 35 posts today, *every one of them* belittling someone on this group, or as above, the *whole* group. It's your 'tude, Jude. I doubt that there is a person on this forum who doesn't believe that you look down upon almost everyone here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ron Dector: A Prison of the Mind, Sthapatya Veda
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I doubt that there is a person on this forum who doesn't believe that you look down upon almost everyone here. Maria Sharapova would look down on most everyone here. Her being 6'3 and still growing. BTW, Curtis, did you see her squeak out a win against Patty Schnyder today in the Frnech Open? A lot of talent in that match.
