Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 08/01/2014 08:40 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re Wake up foggy headed? Clear your head with with the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear it try the Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha. Upset stomach? Use the pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra.: We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to change its sound and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just a pulse; sometimes even just a modulation of other thoughts that flit through the mind; sometimes just the ghost of a sound . . . I'm sure if someone told me to repeat om gam ganapataye namaha I could manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface level and block any move towards transcending. Do you find picking up other mantras and using them as your focus is straightforward and unproblematic? Part of my tantric training was how to use other mantras. But using mantras for ayurveda or even jyotish is not problematic nor complicated. TM people seem to be afraid to try things but I walked away from TM many, many years ago.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 08/01/2014 08:02 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: On 8/1/2014 1:22 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: The first study should be to have each subject practice all three mantras. What we want to see is the effect of each mantra. This would be impossible because there is no way to structure a double-blind scientific study with a control group. That's not the purpose of the study. The purpose would be to see what areas on the brain are effected and how that relates to their effect on the body.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
You probably want to watch season one first. On 08/01/2014 07:54 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re BTW, Utopia is a UK Channel 4 series and very dark. Just took a look at the trailer. Could be a good one for me. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to change its sound and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just a pulse; sometimes even just a modulation of other thoughts that flit through the mind; sometimes just the ghost of a sound . . . I'm sure if someone told me to repeat om gam ganapataye namaha I could manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface level and block any move towards transcending. Do you find picking up other mantras and using them as your focus is straightforward and unproblematic? On 8/2/2014 11:27 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: Part of my tantric training was how to use other mantras. But using mantras for ayurveda or even jyotish is not problematic nor complicated. TM people seem to be afraid to try things but I walked away from TM many, many years ago. The question is, do you enjoy? Which leads to the question - can you transcend using other mantras or techniques? If transcending is important to you, then you probably wouldn't want to forgo pure bliss consciousness just to be able to cast a few spells and attempt to bring to yourself a minor boon or two. So, I'd say that a wise man would probably want to transcend mundane goals. And, a really wise man would probably want both - the spiritual and material enjoyment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
The first study should be to have each subject practice all three mantras. What we want to see is the effect of each mantra. This would be impossible because there is no way to structure a double-blind scientific study with a control group. On 8/1/2014 1:22 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: That's not the purpose of the study. The purpose would be to see what areas on the brain are effected and how that relates to their effect on the body. So far, in the history of science, it has never been demonstrated that a mental thought could cause a corresponding physiological change in the human body. Humans are probably not ever going to be able to levitate or bend spoons using just their mind power. However, if and when this occurs, it will certainly be a revolution in physics. I'm sure it will be on the cover of Popular Mechanics. It sounds complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 08/02/2014 09:41 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to change its sound and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just a pulse; sometimes even just a modulation of other thoughts that flit through the mind; sometimes just the ghost of a sound . . . I'm sure if someone told me to repeat om gam ganapataye namaha I could manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface level and block any move towards transcending. Do you find picking up other mantras and using them as your focus is straightforward and unproblematic? On 8/2/2014 11:27 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: Part of my tantric training was how to use other mantras. But using mantras for ayurveda or even jyotish is not problematic nor complicated. TM people seem to be afraid to try things but I walked away from TM many, many years ago. The question is, do you enjoy? Much more than before. Which leads to the question - can you transcend using other mantras or techniques? Absolutely (pardon the pun). For someone who claims to have been a Zen Master you sure don't understand much about other mantras or techniques.A mantra for ayurveda is used only to bring oneself back into balance. Jyotish mantras are used as remedial measures. But if you were truly a wise pundit you would have known this. If transcending is important to you, then you probably wouldn't want to forgo pure bliss consciousness just to be able to cast a few spells and attempt to bring to yourself a minor boon or two. So, I'd say that a wise man would probably want to transcend mundane goals. And, a really wise man would probably want both - the spiritual and material enjoyment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
Hey that's pretty good! From: emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero “The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus. I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better luck . . .” We have to listen phonetically to realize what phoneme he is pointing to in the song. We tend to think in terms of the song title - I am a Walrus. However, the repeated refrain I'm crying should tell you the mantra is aim.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
Really? Phonetically I'm crying or crying is closer to kring. On 08/02/2014 12:31 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: /“The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus. I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better luck . . .” /*We have to listen phonetically to realize what phoneme he is pointing to in the song. We tend to think in terms of the song title - I am a Walrus. * *However, the repeated refrain I'm crying should tell you the mantra is /aim/.*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
I happen to have the Magical Mystery Tour DVD so I played the tune with treble EQ'd high to hear the ride out lyrics better. They are repeating everybody toke up but we knew that way back then. :-D On 08/02/2014 07:39 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re I Am the Walrus: I'm crying Yes Aim and Kring are both excellent suggestions. Thanks - I think you might have solved a mystery that has puzzled me for ages. Pity George isn't around to confirm it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 8/1/2014 10:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Unfortunately, none of the anecdotal reports in Roche's article are /science in the normal sense of the word./ Apparently there are no reports on PubMed that support Janov or Roche. It's sometimes difficult to imagine where people get these ideas about meditation - based on a simple twenty minute period of sitting quietly and thinking things over. Go figure. Based on this logic, my mind and brain should have exploded years ago and I should be declared insane, or at least troubled. But, I feel just fine and refreshed after meditating. It's not complicated. Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html image http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was definitely anti-primal, or dissociative of the body and feelings. His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still existed in the meditators. In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis. After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions in both frequency and amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/1/2014 10:19 AM, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Unfortunately, none of the anecdotal reports in Roche's article are science in the normal sense of the word. Apparently there are no reports on PubMed that support Janov or Roche. It's sometimes difficult to imagine where people get these ideas about meditation - based on a simple twenty minute period of sitting quietly and thinking things over. Go figure. Based on this logic, my mind and brain should have exploded years ago and I should be declared insane, or at least troubled. But, I feel just fine and refreshed after meditating. It's not complicated. It is certainly true that Roche's article does not concern itself with science. Almost nobody does research on how meditation screws people up. They are more concerned with proving their particular brand is 'the best', or at least really great. Unbiased research on comparing different flavours of meditation seems to be done by research groups whose main focus is not meditation, usually doing meta analysis. Information on problems with meditation seems to reside with individual psychiatrists, as convincing research is almost nil. Roche however has taught and does teach meditation of various kinds and is familiar with TM, and it is refreshing to hear a discussion on how meditation can be a danger rather than being presented as an absurd panacea for all a person's problems. The TM movement is certainly not a good resource for finding out what kind of problems TM can cause. Dangers of Meditation Dangers of Meditation Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was definitely anti-primal, or dissociative of the body and feelings. His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still existed in the meditators. In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis. After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they correlate with brain waves. Science needs to study these as the effects of sounds as thoughts. On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html image http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was definitely anti-primal, or dissociative of the body and feelings. His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still existed in the meditators. In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis. After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions in both frequency and amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of the year, etc. On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they correlate with brain waves. Science needs to study these as the effects of sounds as thoughts. On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Dangers of Meditation Dangers of Meditation Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was definitely anti-primal, or dissociative of the body and feelings. His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still existed in the meditators. In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis. After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions in both frequency and amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
The first study should be to have each subject practice all three mantras. What we want to see is the effect of each mantra. With most research they are just looking at only one mantra. Of course the TMO would object to such a study but other researchers may not. The subject should also be a meditator as they will be able to activate the mantra more quickly than someone who isn't. Each of these mantras also work on different parts of the body with respect to the dosha. Wake up foggy headed? Clear your head with with the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear it try the Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha. Upset stomach? Use the pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra. These are all open not secret mantras used in ayurveda. On 08/01/2014 10:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of the year, etc. On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they correlate with brain waves. Science needs to study these as the effects of sounds as thoughts. On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com mailto:anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html image http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was definitely anti-primal, or dissociative of the body and feelings. His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still existed in the meditators. In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis. After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
Bhairitu, I think I'll play around with them wrt emotions. Like if I'm feeling a heavy emotion, I'll try the kapha pacifying mantra; anger, I'll try the pitta one; and for fear I'll try the vata pacifying one. Thanks, this is really practical info. On Friday, August 1, 2014 1:22 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The first study should be to have each subject practice all three mantras. What we want to see is the effect of each mantra. With most research they are just looking at only one mantra. Of course the TMO would object to such a study but other researchers may not. The subject should also be a meditator as they will be able to activate the mantra more quickly than someone who isn't. Each of these mantras also work on different parts of the body with respect to the dosha. Wake up foggy headed? Clear your head with with the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear it try the Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha. Upset stomach? Use the pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra. These are all open not secret mantras used in ayurveda. On 08/01/2014 10:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of the year, etc. On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they correlate with brain waves. Science needs to study these as the effects of sounds as thoughts. On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Dangers of Meditation Dangers of Meditation Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 08/01/2014 06:30 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown also. (Google Primal Therapy.) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us to experiment with as many therapies as possible) but there will obviously be tragedies as we learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind. On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the one mantra when he first started. Some FFLifers don't like us posting mantra details so here is a clue: noun 1. a male sheep. 2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or sign of Aries. 3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing something. MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties so surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging sixties should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no doubt eventually reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY made an exception for the fab four and gave them each a unique mantra. It's a common Shanti mantra, calms vata. It's considered a mantra for the general public. As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search: In an initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the neophyte, gives him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize with those of the person himself. Saying the word silently during meditations twice daily, concentrating on it, the initiate is able to let gross surface thought drift while consciousness descends to the depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus. I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better luck . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o Not English but there is one at around 3 minutes. Lyrics here: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html Enjoying Utopia season 2? The Killing season 4 debuted today on Netflix WI. That means that NF will be hell to log onto as folks binge watch.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 8/1/2014 12:43 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of the year, etc. Apparently, there are no double-blind studies published in any peer-reviewed scientific journals that prove that any mantra, TM or otherwise, has any effect on human thinking. If there were, we could read them on PubMed. Go figure. On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they correlate with brain waves. Science needs to study these as the effects of sounds as thoughts. On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com mailto:anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html image http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was definitely anti-primal, or dissociative of the body and feelings. His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an element of deep repression still existed in the meditators. In other words, the TM form of meditation they did only achieved symptom suppression (pseudo-calmness) and not deep release or healing of core repressed pain. The natural history of the nervous system remained intact, and there was no integration between the reptilian, limbic, and cortical levels of the brain, which when achieved Janov saw as the sign of mental health and freedom from neurosis. After undergoing successful advanced primalling in which his subjects accessed early childhood pains and even birth traumas, in a systematic and integrated fashion, the study results afterwards showed reductions in both frequency and amplitude of the brain waves, as well as vital signs, for the primal subjects.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
Or what he thought was his mantra. A lot of folks got mantras from the list but they thought it was something different. Someone once told me their mantra was whig. :-D BTW, Utopia is a UK Channel 4 series and very dark. HBO is doing a US version. On 08/01/2014 07:37 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Yes Hare Krishna is included in the lyrics but Georgie boy was suggesting that he included his personal *TM* mantra in the gibberish that runs from the last minute till the end of the song. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : On 08/01/2014 06:30 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown also. (Google Primal Therapy.) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us to experiment with as many therapies as possible) but there will obviously be tragedies as we learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind. On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the one mantra when he first started. Some FFLifers don't like us posting mantra details so here is a clue: noun 1. a male sheep. 2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or sign of Aries. 3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing something. MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties so surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging sixties should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no doubt eventually reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY made an exception for the fab four and gave them each a unique mantra. It's a common Shanti mantra, calms vata. It's considered a mantra for the general public. As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search: In an initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the neophyte, gives him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize with those of the person himself. Saying the word silently during meditations twice daily, concentrating on it, the initiate is able to let gross surface thought drift while consciousness descends to the depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus. I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better luck . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o Not English but there is one at around 3 minutes. Lyrics here: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beatles/iamthewalrus.html Enjoying Utopia season 2? The Killing season 4 debuted today on Netflix WI. That means that NF will be hell to log onto as folks binge watch.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 8/1/2014 1:22 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: The first study should be to have each subject practice all three mantras. What we want to see is the effect of each mantra. This would be impossible because there is no way to structure a double-blind scientific study with a control group. Mantras have no effect on the mind or the brain - they are just sound tools used in order to provide the ideal opportunity for the transcending. Most people who transcend, drop the mantra after a few minutes anyway - it's the transcending effect that needs to be researched. A mantra is anything your guru says it is. With most research they are just looking at only one mantra. Of course the TMO would object to such a study but other researchers may not. The subject should also be a meditator as they will be able to activate the mantra more quickly than someone who isn't. Each of these mantras also work on different parts of the body with respect to the dosha. Wake up foggy headed? Clear your head with with the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear it try the Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha. Upset stomach? Use the pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra. These are all open not secret mantras used in ayurveda. On 08/01/2014 10:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Bhairitu, I'd like to see that research too. And really go for it, researching different mantras with different imbalances, at different times of the year, etc. On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The research I would like to see is a meditator using different mantras, particularly the ayurvedic mantras; hoom, shrim and raam to see how they correlate with brain waves. Science needs to study these as the effects of sounds as thoughts. On 08/01/2014 08:19 AM, anartax...@yahoo.com mailto:anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov does not look as if he really has the breadth of knowledge to evaluate meditation in a manner scientists would consider rigorous, since his practice is limited to a particular kind of therapy. There are however dangers in meditation; the following web page is a pretty good summary of some of the things that can happen. The author did learn TM and became a TM teacher and taught between 1970 and 1975; this is a general article: Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html image http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Dangers of Meditation http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Welcome to Lorin Roche's site View on www.lorinroche.com http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... mailto:LEnglish5@... wrote : I did a web-search. None of Janov's research is indexed in pubmed, and as far as I can tell, he only published about it in his book. This is hardly science in the normal sense of the word, where replications by others is supposed to be, at least in principle, possible. If you don't publish so that other scientists can read the details of the study, it can't be replicated. So, its great that you can quote him to support your pet peeve, but be advised that no-one else agrees with him, if for no other reason, no-one else knows what he did, or found, in any detail. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : This will be a short summary of the results of brain-wave studies conducted on mediators over the past thirty years, and conclusions that may be drawn from them. One of the first areas of study involved Transcendental Meditation (TM). While touting the many healthy benefits of meditation, it was shown that TM reduced certain brain wave frequencies and increased others in research subjects, which was assumed to imply stress reduction. There has been much written, both pro and con regarding these results and other effects of the technique and organization. According to TM, slowing alpha activity during meditation indicates deeper relaxation. This conclusion was challenged, however, by Arthur Janov and his associates at the Primal Institute in Los Angeles. Janov conducted his own studies after having some advanced Vedanta monks come to his clinic for therapy after suffering nervous breakdowns. Janov was of the opinion after seeing such types that meditation was definitely anti-primal, or dissociative of the body and feelings. His research showed that in neurotic meditators (i.e.,those who had not done primal therapy) the results were similar to those produced by the TM people, with reduced alpha and beta wave frequencies, but that the wave amplitude was increased, which to him implied that an
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 8/1/2014 8:30 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Janov's Primal Therapy has led a lot of people to mental breakdown also. (Google Primal Therapy.) I'm not knocking the guy (I want us to experiment with as many therapies as possible) but there will obviously be tragedies as we learn to unravel the mysteries of the mind. On the subject of mantras: my understanding is that MMY only used the one mantra when he first started. In original TM there were two bija mantras: 'Ram' and 'Shyam', according to what I've read. MMY later added the bija for Saraswati, 'Aing' and fourteen others. In more advanced techniques, words such as 'namah' were added, but in TM you get only one single bija mantra. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'bija mantras' instead of being called 'words'. So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the fertilizer, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. /You only get one single bija mantra in TM initiation./ It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the /Sound Arya La Hari /by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. TM and the Sri Vdya Tradition: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm Some FFLifers don't like us posting mantra details so here is a clue: noun 1. a male sheep. 2. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or sign of Aries. 3. any of various devices for battering, crushing, driving, or forcing something. MMY's use of that one mantra was in place until the end of the sixties so surely the celebrity pop stars who learned TM during those swinging sixties should have been given the same mantra? As the celebs would no doubt eventually reveal their syllable to each other, I'm guessing MMY made an exception for the fab four and gave them each a unique mantra. As for George Harrison's mantra we have a clue. From a Google search: In an initiation the master, after appraising the personality of the neophyte, gives him a secret mantra, a word whose vibrations harmonize with those of the person himself. Saying the word silently during meditations twice daily, concentrating on it, the initiate is able to let gross surface thought drift while consciousness descends to the depths where it is in tune with the infinite. The mantra is usually in Sanskrit, but George Harrison has stated that his is an English word included in the lyrics of the Beatles' song I Am the Walrus. I've listened to the walrus song but can't pick it out. See if you have better luck . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
Re Wake up foggy headed? Clear your head with with the kapha mantra hoom though if you really want to clear it try the Ganesh mantra: om gam ganapataye namaha. Upset stomach? Use the pitta mantra. Constipation? Try the vata mantra.: We were always taught that during TM we should allow the mantra to change its sound and not interfere. Sometimes it can even be just a pulse; sometimes even just a modulation of other thoughts that flit through the mind; sometimes just the ghost of a sound . . . I'm sure if someone told me to repeat om gam ganapataye namaha I could manage it but it would keep my consciousness at a surface level and block any move towards transcending. Do you find picking up other mantras and using them as your focus is straightforward and unproblematic?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 8/1/2014 9:52 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re Or what he thought was his mantra. : Yes. I always enjoyed the anecdote that Mia Farrow related. It seems she sneezed during her initiation and asked MMY to repeat the syllable. He refused (!) so she always wondered afterwards if she was repeating the correct mantra. Doesn't really matter which mantra yo get for TM practice since they are all made up anyway. (Still, she later refused him so she got her own back!) As for the alleged hugging event with MMY, it looks like MMY is the one who got back at Mia - everyone knows she wound up with that creepy director guy, Woody Allen, for years. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Arthur Janov is my new hero
On 8/1/2014 10:07 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re Someone once told me their mantra was whig: Are there a lot of sadistic TM teachers out there who enjoy giving their victims useless mantras? All mantras are useless when you think about it - it's only when you let go of the mantra that the transcending begins. - according to MMY, TM is NOT the cause of enlightenment. Pure consciousness is already there - all it needs to be realized is to /let go of thinking/ - meditation is not what you think. There a stories of Christians who learn TM and replace their given syllable with a word they feel comfortable with - Love, Jesus, Maranatha - and seem to have perfectly satisfactory experiences. I wonder if one day we could see brain-imaging devices at meditation centres (centers) which could show immediately if someone was meditating correctly. I think that could be a promising development as otherwise teachers have to rely on a person's subjective report of their session . . .
