Re: blood testing for FeLV etc
Or maybe it was a big drop? (Hard to quantify a drop. Do we know how many ml -- or some other measurement -- of blood is required?) Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Humm, ok, maybe it is 3 drops. I swear, I've seen vets do it and they only used a drop, but maybe they were not doing it right. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: blood testing for FeLV etc
At 06:07 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: Then why not get 'pipettes they can draw up several drops and then you should have what you need. Kelly L Humm, ok, maybe it is 3 drops. I swear, I've seen vets do it and they only used a drop, but maybe they were not doing it right. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.16/552 - Release Date: 11/26/2006
RE: Pepper died
Candace, I'm sorry Pepper had to leave you. Gentle Bridge vibes to him, and hugs to you. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Candace Doler Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:19 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Pepper died I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace attachment: winmail.dat
Re: Pepper died
I am so sorry.seems like that is all I can say any more. Pepper may have waited until you were gone. He sends you love and gratitude from the other side. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Candace Doler To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:18 PM Subject: Pepper died I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace
Re: blood testing for FeLV etc
all i could remember was it was 4 drops of something--it's 3 drops of blood, and 4 of test solution. h--if vets aren't reading the directions and doing the test right, could explain some of the inaccurate results! On 11/26/06, Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Humm, ok, maybe it is 3 drops. I swear, I've seen vets do it and they only used a drop, but maybe they were not doing it right. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: OT Big problem, help
At 08:08 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: No two rescues operate alike. I have been to Kanab many times to volunteer and they are wonderful, but even with them I disagree on several policies regarding adoptions, the thing I really appreciate about them is that they do not speak negatively about any rescue group, and that includes many kill shelters, We all agree on the basics, Spay and neuter, and TNR (although Peta is against TNR,,or at least they were) My criteria may be a bit different from yours,. there is a local rescue here that does not ask for an adoption fee which frightens me and she also does dogs and cats and recently lost a cat to a dog, Also very frightening, but she works her butt off finding homes for so very many in need , We need to support each other and educate, If there is a dangerous overcrowding situation that should be addressed and perhaps helped, Animal people feel a great deal of passion so logic is frequently non existent, We need to support each other,,We need to support each other,,,Best Friends has more money than you can imagine, I give to local groups who really need it, Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the living conditions of the cats. I let people come by (with reasonable notice, I don't want people knocking on my door 24/7 or dumping off cats) and check out my babies' living conditions. I send a complete copy of all medical records home with every cat I adopt, always. I get paperwork from my vet and put it in the cat's file. I am not sure if he would release the paperwork to an adopter or not, but it is my job to do that not his. If you don't mind sending the money you have earmarked to save cats out of state, I would recommend checking out Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah. http://www.bestfriends.orghttp://www.bestfriends.org -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
RE: Genevieve
Continued vibes that Genevieve gets through this bad patch. Hugs to you for caring so very much. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sherry DeHaan Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:11 PM To: Felvtalk Subject: Genevieve Thank you all for your prayers and good thoughts for beautiful Vitter Vits.I have been going to visit her everyday all this week.Last night Dr. Jen took her to her house and to the clinic today to help her along with trying to fight this URI along with Otitis in her left ear.Jen is trying to talk me into bringing her home to be with me after she gets her feeling better.I just don't think that I can do it.I have the 3 fiv+ and the neg and am so glad that they are clear of felv.I would feel aweful if one of them or any at all might get it. I know they ALL have lived amongst the felv+ but I just am so afraid to risk it. But I sure do love that beautiful baby girl.I cry when I hold her and she sings that beautiful song of purrs. :) Just thinking about her now is bringing tears.She has taken a special place in my heart,that will be so broken when it is her time to go.I am amazed my heart is still working after all the loss I have had to deal with.But the love that I have for those wonderful furry critters always keeps me going.And just having all of you here to let me whine,cry or whatever it may be.Thank you all so much.Sorry this is soo long.Please keep praying for my girl. Take care, Sherry -- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
Re: Pepper died
So sorry about you loss. Beth Stamp - Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
Re: Pepper died
Dear Candace, I am sorry for your loss. May you find comfort and peace. Pepper ws lucky to have had you. Dede --- Candace Doler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God Mosiah 2:17 Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Pepper died
Candace, I'm so sorry to hear about Pepper. It's hard to lose a friend. I'm sure you gave him your love, warmth, a good home and friendship. -Peggy, Montana, Karma, and Cassie
Re: blood testing for FeLV etc
At 06:07 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: Actually they are just capillary tubes. Kelly Humm, ok, maybe it is 3 drops. I swear, I've seen vets do it and they only used a drop, but maybe they were not doing it right. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.16/552 - Release Date: 11/26/2006
Re: Petechia/Hemotomas and bloodwork results
You probably mean Doxycycline? An antibiotic? They usually try that assuming (or really hoping) it is Hemobart, an infection in the blood I think from fleas? Beth Frullani, Anita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My vet called to say she would treat BooBo using Dioxy -- but she really hasn't been diagnosed with a cause for being slightly anemic. Do you know if there is a danger in treating using Dioxy and/or Interfon without having a diagnosis for cause? She also (the vet) said they have Interfon and could use that. BooBo has seemed okay for the past couple of weeks, her spots disappeared but then came back and are slowly disappearing again. She seems a little quiet today however. Another vet (who didn't look at BooBo but was briefed by the clinic manager) said to re-test her in 3 months -- they feel she will re-test negative as her brother and mother tested negative. Anita - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
Re: OT Big problem, help
Honestly, they aren't all like that at all. I promise! I know lots of good rescuers. You're free to verbally run them down as you aren't in the business. I just try not to, since I believe we (rescuers) all need to cooperate as much as possible for the good of the animals. Go take a look at Best Friends website. http://www.bestfriends.org They are my model, and they always talk about how they started out with just a few feral cat traps.:) On 11/26/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the living conditions of the cats. I let people come by (with reasonable notice, I don't want people knocking on my door 24/7 or dumping off cats) and check out my babies' living conditions. I send a complete copy of all medical records home with every cat I adopt, always. I get paperwork from my vet and put it in the cat's file. I am not sure if he would release the paperwork to an adopter or not, but it is my job to do that not his. If you don't mind sending the money you have earmarked to save cats out of state, I would recommend checking out Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah. http://www.bestfriends.org -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- *Check out the new AOL*http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: OT, I found something fun to do online
OOH, I'm putting a wiki on my rescue site, maybe you will want to contribute? I so wish there were 48 or so hours in the day. On 11/26/06, Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check it out, I'm making wiki-how guides: This one was a requested one: http://www.wikihow.com/Take-Good-Care-of-Two-Female-Cats Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 10:48 PM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died Candace, I'm sorry to hear of Pepper's passing, and especially that it happened so suddenly. You obviously were doing a lot for him. He was fortunate to have you as a guardian. If he lived to be 12 years old, then he is also a hope for many of us here. Blessings for Pepper and for you. Lance I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tracy Weese Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:17 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Pepper died I'm sorry you lost Pepper Tracy - Original Message - From: Candace Doler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: 11/26/2006 8:31:53 PM Subject: Pepper died I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:55 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Pepper died Candace, I'm sorry Pepper had to leave you. Gentle Bridge vibes to him, and hugs to you. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Candace Doler Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:19 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Pepper died I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:31 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died Candace, I am so very sorry. elizabeth -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 5:18 PM Subject: Pepper died I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace size=2 width=100% align=center Check out the new AOL http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redi r=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom%2Fnewaol . Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sherry DeHaan Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:03 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died Candace I am so sorry about your sweet Pepper.Hugs to you Sherry Candace Doler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo .com/unlimited/
Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
This is interesting. I'd never heard of it before. I'll have to ask my vet about it. He charges a lot more to run a test than the wellness clinic does though. On 11/27/06, Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth *Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - *From:* catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM *Subject:* Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t *Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42297/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marylyn Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 1:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died I am so sorry.seems like that is all I can say any more. Pepper may have waited until you were gone. He sends you love and gratitude from the other side. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Candace Doler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:18 PM Subject: Pepper died I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died I'm so sorry for your loss Candace. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: blood testing for FeLV etc
actually, there is something in the instructions i think that quantifies a drop, or actually, the MINIMUM blood needed. it's even possible that idexx or one of the other companies has the instructions on line in a pdf file.. the thing with snap tests is they are very specific in the instructions about the order of things to do, how long the test has to be out at room temperature before you use, exactly how to snap it--and if not done correctly, you compromise the results. i'm NOT a vet tech, so the first time i read the instructions, it was rather intimidating, and, on paper, confusing. so i learned to do them working with my vet, and a husband/wife MD/VT team who had the process down to a literal science--one would scruff in such a way that claws and teeth were out of the way while the other went in on a rear leg and got the blood before the cat hardly noticed... but after not having done one in years, i'd be very hesitant to assume that i could get it right the first time after all this time On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or maybe it was a big drop? (Hard to quantify a drop. Do we know how many ml -- or some other measurement -- of blood is required?) Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Humm, ok, maybe it is 3 drops. I swear, I've seen vets do it and they only used a drop, but maybe they were not doing it right. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Pepper died
Candace, I am so sorry to hear about Pepper. I know you must feel badly that you weren't able to be there when he passed, but not being there doesn't discount all the years of love that you were able to give Pepper and all the times you were there for him. Bless you for all you did for him, and for loving him like you did. :) Wendy Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gussies mom Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:53 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died So sorry about you loss. Beth Stamp Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo .com/unlimited/
Re: Dr. Ward's consult
Dianne, I agree with what Michelle said about lymphoma not being curable, but we have seen so many cats here who get really good food and supplements who live a long time with FeLV, so I think that if Asia is treated in this manner, she could live a long time with lymphoma. I believe the average person, even those who's kitties are under treatment for lymphoma, do not know about good kitty food and supplements. So the average life span for a cat with lymphoma probably reflects this fact. I think a good diet, supplements, and a stress-free environment make a big difference in how the body reacts to disease, whether human or cat. I would not worry about the average life span of a cat with lymphoma. All you need to do is take good care of Asia, and you may be surprised. This disease is so unpredictable. With the combination of information we are learning, we may be the ones setting precedent for kitties with cancer, even FeLV ones. They are learning new things every day about humans with cancer; the same can be done for kitties too. I just wanted to encourage you. You are doing the right thing for Asia. And she loves you for it. :) Wendy --- Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no, I guess I did not know it was not curable. My mom had lymphoma and hers has been in remission since 1999. I have been reading about the various lengths of remission but did not really realize it was not curable. Dianne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:02 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Ward's consult I have usually dealt with at least 2 vets at a time-- a very close one for simple matters, and one farther away who is an internist or who I trust more for more serious things. Dianne, I am sure you must know this already, but lymphoma is usually not cured. At best it is held in remission for a while. Every once in a while it does seem to get cured-- cats five years out with no symptoms-- but this is less likely for a positive cat. I have heard of positives getting a year or two out of chemo, and I think there is one out there that is approaching 2 years and still has no symptoms, knock on wood, but that is rare. It is usually a best case scenario of months not years. Positives respond as well to chemo as negatives, but their remissions tend not to last as long. Hopefully Asia will be the exception. Michelle In a message dated 11/26/2006 1:03:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but it is ok now, I won't be going back to him with her...and if I do it will be convenience. He is less than a mile from my house and I can usually get in immediately and get a discount as I do rescue work. So there are some benefits there but I know he is not the best vet around. Actually there are not many in this area I am happy dealing with. Last year was a horrible year for me and my babies. I lost 3 Shih Tzu's and a cat from April to October, it is a horror story and a long one. Each pet had a different illness and 2 were prolonged and 2 were sudden. (all part of why I was so devastated when I got the first diagnosis...just went numb) All for now and good nightand good night...smile Dianne and Asia Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
Re: OT Big problem, Best Friends
I donate to Best Friends too, and will be visiting the sanctuary in February!!! I am so excited! :) Wendy --- Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the living conditions of the cats. I let people come by (with reasonable notice, I don't want people knocking on my door 24/7 or dumping off cats) and check out my babies' living conditions. I send a complete copy of all medical records home with every cat I adopt, always. I get paperwork from my vet and put it in the cat's file. I am not sure if he would release the paperwork to an adopter or not, but it is my job to do that not his. If you don't mind sending the money you have earmarked to save cats out of state, I would recommend checking out Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah. http://www.bestfriends.org -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
i tried to find a vet's office in town who'd do that--no one would. (this is a town with 3 24-hour-hr emergency vets, 6 housecall vets, a vet school, two cat-only vets... seems the vet students set down roots while in school, then never leave!) On 11/27/06, Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
RE: Pepper died
Thank-you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peggy Ankney Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:04 AM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Pepper died Candace, I'm so sorry to hear about Pepper. It's hard to lose a friend. I'm sure you gave him your love, warmth, a good home and friendship. -Peggy, Montana, Karma, and Cassie
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip, Gainesville Florida - has done a lot of research and does not recommend batch testing. From: Gussies mom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: OT Big problem, Best Friends
Oooh, please tell us all about it when you get back. On 11/27/06, wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I donate to Best Friends too, and will be visiting the sanctuary in February!!! I am so excited! :) Wendy --- Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the living conditions of the cats. I let people come by (with reasonable notice, I don't want people knocking on my door 24/7 or dumping off cats) and check out my babies' living conditions. I send a complete copy of all medical records home with every cat I adopt, always. I get paperwork from my vet and put it in the cat's file. I am not sure if he would release the paperwork to an adopter or not, but it is my job to do that not his. If you don't mind sending the money you have earmarked to save cats out of state, I would recommend checking out Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah. http://www.bestfriends.org -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: Pepper died
Candace, I'm so very sorry for your loss. On 11/26/06, Candace Doler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: Pepper died
Candace, I am so sorry to hear about your Pepper. Cindy Reasoner --- Candace Doler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted to let you know that Pepper died a few hours ago. He started getting better with this current episode but was not so good earlier today. I was not expecting him to go so suddenly. I was not at home at the time so not sure what happened. I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. This group is great for those of us who want to take responsibility for the health care of our pets and give them the best chance possible for a good outcome. Thank you all Candace Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com
Re: Dr. Ward's consult
Dianne, I am so glad that you and Asia know what the problem is and have hope. Hope is so important. And your doctor sounds like a great one. What a blessing! Michelle is our resident expert on lymphoma here. Unfortunately, she's had lots of experience, so she's an invaluable member here, and always willing to help. Sending prayers to you and little Asia. :) Wendy --- Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr. Ward did an ultra sound immediately, saw a big mass near the heart. This is what was done today: Echo: Mediastinal Mass FNA: lymphoblasts Cx: Mediastinal lymphoma Tx: Oncovin o.05 mg IV Depo Mectol (?) 1 cmg Cytoxan 25 mg PO She gave that today and we go back next Friday. She says it is very treatable and I should see a different cat in 48 hrs. She said she likes to start with low doses so cat doesn't get so sick she won't eat again, we will up it as needed. She did ECHO and an x-ray, I was in room and saw the mass on the ECHO and then she showed me the x-ray too...we can use it to compare ... She also gave me an article she wrote : MEDVET, Columbus, Ohio Onocology and Hematology Proceedings of the 20thWaltham/OSU Symposium She prefers the COP Protocol. I will keep you posted about Ms. Asia's progress. Dianne and Asia Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
Re: Dr. Ward's consult
Here is the group address, there should be a link there to join: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline_lymphoma/ -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
South Korea
*Have any of you seen this or heard about this? Isn't this complete hysteria? Is there anything we can do? Email campaigns? Anything?* http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=202453266p=zxz45397z -- Leslie =^..^= To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded. That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
To Kelly L: Re: OT Big problem, help
Best Friends does support local groups also with the funds they receive. Last year their total revenue was a little over $30 million. They spent almost $10 million on sanctuary maintenance, but $5 million on programs and outreach and a little over $2.5 million on rescue. They have partner groups in many cities that they support, one of which came out to tnr (?) a feral colony my elderly grandmother was feeding in North Carolina after I called Best Friends for help a few years ago. I think Best Friends is a fabulous organization, one worth donating to. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: No two rescues operate alike. I have been to Kanab many times to volunteer and they are wonderful, but even with them I disagree on several policies regarding adoptions, the thing I really appreciate about them is that they do not speak negatively about any rescue group, and that includes many kill shelters, We all agree on the basics, Spay and neuter, and TNR (although Peta is against TNR,,or at least they were) My criteria may be a bit different from yours,. there is a local rescue here that does not ask for an adoption fee which frightens me and she also does dogs and cats and recently lost a cat to a dog, Also very frightening, but she works her butt off finding homes for so very many in need , We need to support each other and educate, If there is a dangerous overcrowding situation that should be addressed and perhaps helped, Animal people feel a great deal of passion so logic is frequently non existent, We need to support each other,,We need to support each other,,,Best Friends has more money than you can imagine, I give to local groups who really need it, Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the
Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
This is at a cat-only clinic. I can see it if there are a lot in a litter. For my personal cats I would want them tested separately. But in rescue it gets expensive, even at 30% discount. We buy our own tests and the vet will draw the blood for free. Beth TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i tried to find a vet's office in town who'd do that--no one would. (this is a town with 3 24-hour-hr emergency vets, 6 housecall vets, a vet school, two cat-only vets... seems the vet students set down roots while in school, then never leave!) On 11/27/06, Gussies mom wrote: My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 - Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
It's better than them only testing one as they are Frullani, Anita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip, Gainesville Florida has done a lot of research and does not recommend batch testing. - From: Gussies mom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. - Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
Re: To Kelly L: Re: OT Big problem, help
At 09:35 AM 11/27/2006, you wrote: I totally agree, as I go there often and have been a member for 8 years, Actually I am attending the weeks course on starting a shelter in April, but I see so many local groups really struggling, and they are my back yard, and they are desperate for help. We almost pruchased 2 acres in the Vermillion cliffs area, it is outside the city of Kanab about 2 miles east, Many employees live there, I have also volunteered at their adoptions in Burbank,It is a place to catch your breath. Kelly l Best Friends does support local groups also with the funds they receive. Last year their total revenue was a little over $30 million. They spent almost $10 million on sanctuary maintenance, but $5 million on programs and outreach and a little over $2.5 million on rescue. They have partner groups in many cities that they support, one of which came out to tnr (?) a feral colony my elderly grandmother was feeding in North Carolina after I called Best Friends for help a few years ago. I think Best Friends is a fabulous organization, one worth donating to. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: No two rescues operate alike. I have been to Kanab many times to volunteer and they are wonderful, but even with them I disagree on several policies regarding adoptions, the thing I really appreciate about them is that they do not speak negatively about any rescue group, and that includes many kill shelters, We all agree on the basics, Spay and neuter, and TNR (although Peta is against TNR,,or at least they were) My criteria may be a bit different from yours,. there is a local rescue here that does not ask for an adoption fee which frightens me and she also does dogs and cats and recently lost a cat to a dog, Also very frightening, but she works her butt off finding homes for so very many in need , We need to support each other and educate, If there is a dangerous overcrowding situation that should be addressed and perhaps helped, Animal people feel a great deal of passion so logic is frequently non existent, We need to support each other,,We need to support each other,,,Best Friends has more money than you can imagine, I give to local groups who really need it, Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't
Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
We batch test kittens for FeLV, meaning that blood drawn from two siblings will be tested with one test kit. So far (knock on wood) we have never had a positive kitten so we have never had to go to individual testing. Batch testing has worked out well and cuts costs. Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
Re: To Kelly L: Re: Best Friends
I think it's very cool that you go there to volunteer. Do you have any suggestions for where to stay while visiting Best Friends? I know there are a few cottages on property, but I'd like to stay at the best/most beautiful place if possible. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:35 AM 11/27/2006, you wrote: I totally agree, as I go there often and have been a member for 8 years, Actually I am attending the weeks course on starting a shelter in April, but I see so many local groups really struggling, and they are my back yard, and they are desperate for help. We almost pruchased 2 acres in the Vermillion cliffs area, it is outside the city of Kanab about 2 miles east, Many employees live there, I have also volunteered at their adoptions in Burbank,It is a place to catch your breath. Kelly l Best Friends does support local groups also with the funds they receive. Last year their total revenue was a little over $30 million. They spent almost $10 million on sanctuary maintenance, but $5 million on programs and outreach and a little over $2.5 million on rescue. They have partner groups in many cities that they support, one of which came out to tnr (?) a feral colony my elderly grandmother was feeding in North Carolina after I called Best Friends for help a few years ago. I think Best Friends is a fabulous organization, one worth donating to. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: No two rescues operate alike. I have been to Kanab many times to volunteer and they are wonderful, but even with them I disagree on several policies regarding adoptions, the thing I really appreciate about them is that they do not speak negatively about any rescue group, and that includes many kill shelters, We all agree on the basics, Spay and neuter, and TNR (although Peta is against TNR,,or at least they were) My criteria may be a bit different from yours,. there is a local rescue here that does not ask for an adoption fee which frightens me and she also does dogs and cats and recently lost a cat to a dog, Also very frightening, but she works her butt off finding homes for so very many in need , We need to support each other and educate, If there is a dangerous overcrowding situation that should be addressed and perhaps helped, Animal people feel a great deal of passion so logic is frequently non existent, We need to support each other,,We need to support each other,,,Best Friends has more money than you can imagine, I give to local groups who really need it, Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems
Re: To Kelly L: Re: Best Friends
I have never been but I know you can check out a dog to do a sleepover with if you stay at the cottages. I don't know if you can do sleepovers at the hotels! On 11/27/06, wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's very cool that you go there to volunteer. Do you have any suggestions for where to stay while visiting Best Friends? I know there are a few cottages on property, but I'd like to stay at the best/most beautiful place if possible. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:35 AM 11/27/2006, you wrote: I totally agree, as I go there often and have been a member for 8 years, Actually I am attending the weeks course on starting a shelter in April, but I see so many local groups really struggling, and they are my back yard, and they are desperate for help. We almost pruchased 2 acres in the Vermillion cliffs area, it is outside the city of Kanab about 2 miles east, Many employees live there, I have also volunteered at their adoptions in Burbank,It is a place to catch your breath. Kelly l Best Friends does support local groups also with the funds they receive. Last year their total revenue was a little over $30 million. They spent almost $10 million on sanctuary maintenance, but $5 million on programs and outreach and a little over $2.5 million on rescue. They have partner groups in many cities that they support, one of which came out to tnr (?) a feral colony my elderly grandmother was feeding in North Carolina after I called Best Friends for help a few years ago. I think Best Friends is a fabulous organization, one worth donating to. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: No two rescues operate alike. I have been to Kanab many times to volunteer and they are wonderful, but even with them I disagree on several policies regarding adoptions, the thing I really appreciate about them is that they do not speak negatively about any rescue group, and that includes many kill shelters, We all agree on the basics, Spay and neuter, and TNR (although Peta is against TNR,,or at least they were) My criteria may be a bit different from yours,. there is a local rescue here that does not ask for an adoption fee which frightens me and she also does dogs and cats and recently lost a cat to a dog, Also very frightening, but she works her butt off finding homes for so very many in need , We need to support each other and educate, If there is a dangerous overcrowding situation that should be addressed and perhaps helped, Animal people feel a great deal of passion so logic is frequently non existent, We need to support each other,,We need to support each other,,,Best Friends has more money than you can imagine, I give to local groups who really need it, Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the living conditions of the cats. I let people come by (with reasonable notice, I don't want people knocking on my door 24/7 or dumping off cats) and check out my babies' living conditions. I send a complete copy of all medical records home with every cat I adopt, always. I get paperwork from my vet and put it in the cat's file. I am not sure if he would release the paperwork to an adopter or not, but it is my job to do that not his. If you don't mind sending the money you have earmarked to save cats out of state, I would recommend checking out Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah. http://www.bestfriends.org -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: To Kelly L: Re: Best Friends
At 10:36 AM 11/27/2006, you wrote: I think you can...used to be able to I have never been but I know you can check out a dog to do a sleepover with if you stay at the cottages. I don't know if you can do sleepovers at the hotels! On 11/27/06, wendy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's very cool that you go there to volunteer. Do you have any suggestions for where to stay while visiting Best Friends? I know there are a few cottages on property, but I'd like to stay at the best/most beautiful place if possible. :) Wendy --- Kelly L mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:35 AM 11/27/2006, you wrote: I totally agree, as I go there often and have been a member for 8 years, Actually I am attending the weeks course on starting a shelter in April, but I see so many local groups really struggling, and they are my back yard, and they are desperate for help. We almost pruchased 2 acres in the Vermillion cliffs area, it is outside the city of Kanab about 2 miles east, Many employees live there, I have also volunteered at their adoptions in Burbank,It is a place to catch your breath. Kelly l Best Friends does support local groups also with the funds they receive. Last year their total revenue was a little over $30 million. They spent almost $10 million on sanctuary maintenance, but $5 million on programs and outreach and a little over $2.5 million on rescue. They have partner groups in many cities that they support, one of which came out to tnr (?) a feral colony my elderly grandmother was feeding in North Carolina after I called Best Friends for help a few years ago. I think Best Friends is a fabulous organization, one worth donating to. :) Wendy --- Kelly L mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: No two rescues operate alike. I have been to Kanab many times to volunteer and they are wonderful, but even with them I disagree on several policies regarding adoptions, the thing I really appreciate about them is that they do not speak negatively about any rescue group, and that includes many kill shelters, We all agree on the basics, Spay and neuter, and TNR (although Peta is against TNR,,or at least they were) My criteria may be a bit different from yours,. there is a local rescue here that does not ask for an adoption fee which frightens me and she also does dogs and cats and recently lost a cat to a dog, Also very frightening, but she works her butt off finding homes for so very many in need , We need to support each other and educate, If there is a dangerous overcrowding situation that should be addressed and perhaps helped, Animal people feel a great deal of passion so logic is frequently non existent, We need to support each other,,We need to support each other,,,Best Friends has more money than you can imagine, I give to local groups who really need it, Kelly http://www.kellyscats.zoomshare.comwww.kellyscats.zoomshare.com thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with
Re: To Kelly L: Re: Best Friends
At 10:28 AM 11/27/2006, you wrote: It might be to late to reserve a cottage I will email you some pics, there are many places in town also, We were lucky on our first 3 visits to stay at the Rock House, but now they use it for storage, You will see it when you are there, it is between the visitors center and the cottages, Every place there is beautiful. while we are there I work with the cats and hubby does the horses, I s cried when Harriet died. and Oscar. I have so many pictures of them . Ihave never been there in Feb, we usually do fall so you will see so many things that i did not, Like SNOW, We had electric storms when I was there, One day I was in Bentons house during a bad storm and there was an exceptionally loud thunder, Well it struck a tree right outside the clinic and took down a tree, It has been 3 years since I have been there so I am really looking forward to April. You will have a wonderful time, Everyone there is super nice Kelly I think it's very cool that you go there to volunteer. Do you have any suggestions for where to stay while visiting Best Friends? I know there are a few cottages on property, but I'd like to stay at the best/most beautiful place if possible. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:35 AM 11/27/2006, you wrote: I totally agree, as I go there often and have been a member for 8 years, Actually I am attending the weeks course on starting a shelter in April, but I see so many local groups really struggling, and they are my back yard, and they are desperate for help. We almost pruchased 2 acres in the Vermillion cliffs area, it is outside the city of Kanab about 2 miles east, Many employees live there, I have also volunteered at their adoptions in Burbank,It is a place to catch your breath. Kelly l Best Friends does support local groups also with the funds they receive. Last year their total revenue was a little over $30 million. They spent almost $10 million on sanctuary maintenance, but $5 million on programs and outreach and a little over $2.5 million on rescue. They have partner groups in many cities that they support, one of which came out to tnr (?) a feral colony my elderly grandmother was feeding in North Carolina after I called Best Friends for help a few years ago. I think Best Friends is a fabulous organization, one worth donating to. :) Wendy --- Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 11/26/2006, you wrote: No two rescues operate alike. I have been to Kanab many times to volunteer and they are wonderful, but even with them I disagree on several policies regarding adoptions, the thing I really appreciate about them is that they do not speak negatively about any rescue group, and that includes many kill shelters, We all agree on the basics, Spay and neuter, and TNR (although Peta is against TNR,,or at least they were) My criteria may be a bit different from yours,. there is a local rescue here that does not ask for an adoption fee which frightens me and she also does dogs and cats and recently lost a cat to a dog, Also very frightening, but she works her butt off finding homes for so very many in need , We need to support each other and educate, If there is a dangerous overcrowding situation that should be addressed and perhaps helped, Animal people feel a great deal of passion so logic is frequently non existent, We need to support each other,,We need to support each other,,,Best Friends has more money than you can imagine, I give to local groups who really need it, Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com thank you for this. this group i mentioned is the only rescue operation i've been acquainted with - so from my view i did not know if these were idiosyncrasies of this group or a common practice. i don't mean to run verbally run them down - i've just being going through some disillusionment with their practices. i truly believe their hearts are in the right place - i just think they need a good common sense model of best practices. elizabeth *Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.* -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: OT Big problem, help On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
Why? We test two siblings with one test. If ever we get a positive then we would individually test those two. batch testing seems to make a lot of sense. Frullani, Anita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip, Gainesville Florida has done a lot of research and does not recommend batch testing. - From: Gussies mom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
OT: Guage of needles for subQ???
Hey guys, I have a box of Terumo needles, 18 guage. The needles seem so big when I give subQ to my CRF/hyperT kitty, and she's fairly uncomfortable when I insert it. Can subQ be done well with a smaller needle? If so, what size? Thanks, Wendy Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
Yes, mine are not caged either. Most of the time when I see cages used it is at the large shelters, such as the city animal shelter and the humane society. No one stressed keeping numbers sane when I started doing this and my numbers are not sane at this time. But live and learn, and I'm not taking any more in until I adopt several out. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the living conditions of the cats. I let people come by (with reasonable notice, I don't want people knocking on my door 24/7 or dumping off cats) and check out my babies' living conditions. I send a complete copy of all medical records home with every cat I adopt, always. I get paperwork from my vet and put it in the cat's file. I am not sure if he would release the paperwork to an adopter or not, but it is my job to do that not his. If you don't mind sending the money you have earmarked to save cats out of state, I would recommend checking out Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah. http://www.bestfriends.org -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
Re: OT: Guage of needles for subQ???
I use the 19 and sometimes 20 gauge,,it takes a bit longer that's all. Depends upon the cat. if the cat is hard to restrain youwant it in quicker, My BigD waits at the chair for his fluids, I used 18 in the past. Also depends upon how often. Mine is a CRF cat so it is a lifetime thing, Hey guys, I have a box of Terumo needles, 18 guage. The needles seem so big when I give subQ to my CRF/hyperT kitty, and she's fairly uncomfortable when I insert it. Can subQ be done well with a smaller needle? If so, what size? Thanks, Wendy Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.18/554 - Release Date: 11/27/2006
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
But why would batch testing be something not recommended? Is there specific reasoning behind this? Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's better than them only testing one as they are Frullani, Anita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip, Gainesville Florida has done a lot of research and does not recommend batch testing. - From: Gussies mom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. - Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
Because if you mix too many cats the blood can get diluted too much if the number of positives is much lower than the number of negatives. Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But why would batch testing be something not recommended? Is there specific reasoning behind this? Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's better than them only testing one as they are Frullani, Anita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip, Gainesville Florida has done a lot of research and does not recommend batch testing. - From: Gussies mom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. - Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Re: OT: Guage of needles for subQ???
The purpose of the large needle is so the fluids flow quickly. Are you getting it into the area in the nape of the neck, the skin there, in one smooth motion? I am told that area has limited nerve endings. Also, are you warming the fluids before giving them? Placing the bag in a bowl of warm water before administering, so that the fluids are closer to a cat's body temperature, will help a lot. You can go one size smaller but it will make the processw take longer. wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey guys, I have a box of Terumo needles, 18 guage. The needles seem so big when I give subQ to my CRF/hyperT kitty, and she's fairly uncomfortable when I insert it. Can subQ be done well with a smaller needle? If so, what size? Thanks, Wendy Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: OT: Guage of needles for subQ???
Hi Wendy, Fred get subqs daily (CRF), I use the terumo 20 x 1 gauge UTW (ultra thin wall). He doesn't mind them too much and they are a lot smaller than the 18 gauge which Fred objected to very loudly and with teeth!! I have noticed on occasion I would have a very hard time getting them in and found that sometimes they have a little teenye, tiny bump, almost imperceptable but enough to make them not go in, so now I check each one before I use it. I just take my finger nail and scrape up from the bottom of the hole (on th beveled side) to the tip, BUT I do it on the unbeveled side. That little bump when it's there can really make it impossible to get it in, other wise they are nice, Fred DOES NOT like the monoject brand of the same size and they are a bit bigger and seems like not quite as sharp. PS. It does take a little longer but with Fred he doesn't mind once we start, it's the poke he doesn't like so much and the smaller the needle the better!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: OT: Guage of needles for subQ???
Since I normally work with, at best, semi-tame adults, I want it quicker... Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use the 19 and sometimes 20 gauge,,it takes a bit longer that's all. Depends upon the cat. if the cat is hard to restrain youwant it in quicker, My BigD waits at the chair for his fluids, I used 18 in the past. Also depends upon how often. Mine is a CRF cat so it is a lifetime thing, Hey guys, I have a box of Terumo needles, 18 guage. The needles seem so big when I give subQ to my CRF/hyperT kitty, and she's fairly uncomfortable when I insert it. Can subQ be done well with a smaller needle? If so, what size? Thanks, Wendy Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.18/554 - Release Date: 11/27/2006
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
Most vets in California will do two or perhaps three litttermates with one test. The spay/neuter clinic that I sue for kittens does two littermates. So it sounds like it is an acceptabel way to do things as long as it is limited like that. (Doing two littermates at a time cuts the cost in half for rescues. Pretty significant if you see 100 kittens a year.) Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because if you mix too many cats the blood can get diluted too much if the number of positives is much lower than the number of negatives. Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But why would batch testing be something not recommended? Is there specific reasoning behind this? Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's better than them only testing one as they are Frullani, Anita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip, Gainesville Florida has done a lot of research and does not recommend batch testing. - From: Gussies mom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues My vets office told me they can take blood from all the kittens an combine it and use 1 or 2 tests, depending on the size of the litter. If the tests come back at all positive, they then do individual tests. This can save money, which I guess is what these rescues are trying to do by only testing one in the litter. Beth Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I agree this is bad. I hate it when rescues do this. Even Nathan Winograd, who is against testing, states that the one thing you should not do is selective testing. Either test none or all. I think people do this because they really do not understand the disease, or have outdated information. I tried to educate my previous rescue group regarding FELV and it fell on deaf ears. On 11/25/06, Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here I have learned that the policy with rescue cat groups is that they test 1 in the litter of feral cats.my Asia did not get tested but her brother did.he tested negative but her paperwork states she was tested a year agoand was negative. When I called that vet yesterday I was told no we do not have a record of her being tested, we only test one in a litter and it was her brother that got tested, Pierre. I think the all should be tested. Dianne - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues I would not test. I just haven't been on list lately. I wish testing had never started. Vaccinate and adopt is what I would do. FIV and Felv should be treated as any other illness a cat might come down with. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is a lot of information to process. Thanks everyone! I know there are a lot of people who advocate NOT testing and was surprised to find no one spoke up on that angle. One of my favorite animal people, Nathan Winograd, does not test for FIV and only tests for FELV because the board insists. I know most of the well known feral cat groups do not test cats who appear healthy, but that's a different can of worms. I will say that all cats that come into rescue are initially tested, because that is what the shelters around here do. I have set up that I will require owner surrenders provide proof of negative combo test. I'm not sure about the statements about eventually having lots of FELV+ cats to deal with. In this area I know people who have been doing rescue for years and not come across a single case or maybe one or 2. What I don't want is for a foster to end up in the position I did, when I had a kitten test light + and no one, from the director on down, could tell me what to do, what was going to happen to the cats, etc. Fortunately she and the rest of that litter later tested negative. On 11/12/06, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, If you were establishing a rescue, what kind of felv/fiv testing policy would you use? If the cats were positive for either or both, what would you do? Thanks for your input. Kelley -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. - Want to start your own
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues The spay/neuter clinic that I sue for kittens We live in a litigious society ;-) Diane R. This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties.
Re: OT: Guage of needles for subQ???
Thanks guys. I am going to go ahead and order the twenty, since Julie is pretty tame. She just doesn't like it when the needle goes in. She's pretty good while getting the fluids, and I think she realizes now that they make her feel good when I'm done (cuz she can go poop). If only it were that easy with us! lol. :) Wendy -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
Oops. I meant use... Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues The spay/neuter clinic that I sue for kittens We live in a litigious society ;-) Diane R. This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged.They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties.
OT: RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues
I was pretty sure that was what you meant. ;-) It just conjured up such a delightful image -- a dark wood courtroom, and a basket full of squirming kittens labeled Exhibit A... Does/did anyone here watch Buffy? In a couple of episodes, reference is made to the vampire Spike and his demon cronies *gambling* for kittens (thankfully nothing is ever shown of what they do with them, so you can still think it's funny and not be too ashamed). At one point, Spike is into a loan shark (a demon with the head of a shark) for X number of kittens. Spike says he's good for them, he just needs a little time. Time, says the loan shark with distaste, is what turns kittens into *cats.* Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:33 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues Oops. I meant use... Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Felv+/FIV+ policy for rescues The spay/neuter clinic that I sue for kittens We live in a litigious society ;-) Diane R. This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged.They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties. This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties.
Re: blood testing for FeLV etc
Yeah, really, a drop isn't such an accurate form of measurement, the drop size would vary I should think, depending on the consistency of the blood. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: Stamp/Anemia
What kind of litter was he eating? That can be deadly if it's a clay litter Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: OT, I found something fun to do online
I do spend more time online than I should :-) If you want me to add things to your wiki, just send me the url, and I'll see if I can add any valid info. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: blood testing for FeLV etc
well, if you're using a calibrated dropper it is or can be, at least! On 11/27/06, Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, really, a drop isn't such an accurate form of measurement, the drop size would vary I should think, depending on the consistency of the blood. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Stamp/Anemia/Litter suggestions
Yeah, I know. The clumping can be deadly, too. The vet said to try pine litter. I hate that stuff because it becomes sawdust and gets everywhere. I used to shred newspaper when this would happen, but he is in my bedroom with one of my negative cats and I can't do that for both of them. I'd be changing litter 4 times a day. Has anyone had this problem or know what litter is the safest? I tried Yesterdays News the last time, but they ate that, too. Beth Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kind of litter was he eating? That can be deadly if it's a clay litter Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
Re: South Korea (OT)
It's Korea, so no, there's nothing we can do. They still EAT cats and dogs there, skinning them alive after plunging them live into a pot of boiling water. The good news with global warming, most of the Asian countries that are so backwards in animal welfare will be partially under water as the sea rises, so... it's a temporary problem; a very temporary problem, if trends continue as they are. Don't believe me... rent the new movie that's out in the rental stores called An Inconvenient Truth. http://www.climatecrisis.net/ Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
Sane is what works for you, not what the general public would consider the norm. A lot of people can cope with 20 or 30 cats -- if the house is big enough, there's more than one person around to give them attention, socialize the kittens, feed and clean, annd enough money to care for their needs -- but the average citizen would consider that quite insane. There are also far too many situations where people neglect even one or two cats no matter their resources We aim to give the foster cats a normal home/family environment. And the foster homes have to be clean enough that you can let adopters in to at least part of the house. Seems to work pretty well. I am always complimented on how well socialized the kittens and cats are. Their personalities shine through. It's always so bittersweet to see them leave for their forever homes. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, mine are not caged either. Most of the time when I see cages used it is at the large shelters, such as the city animal shelter and the humane society. No one stressed keeping numbers sane when I started doing this and my numbers are not sane at this time. But live and learn, and I'm not taking any more in until I adopt several out. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they are today by spending all their time trash talking other rescues (not that I am suggesting you are trash talking, this is just something I see on a daily basis from people involved in rescue - they'll tell people Oh, don't adopt a cat from x rescue..they are a bad rescue). Anyway, if you do not support this group's practices, don't give them any money. Don't let them guilt you into giving them money either. If you want to keep your money local, I would find another rescue group. Check them out before you give them money. Cats should not be taken to adoption days when ill - that's bad practice. If they want people to give them money, the donors should be allowed to examine the living conditions of the cats. I let people come by (with reasonable notice, I don't want people knocking on my door 24/7 or dumping off cats) and check out my babies' living conditions. I send a complete
RE: South Korea (OT)
Moment for moment, that movie is scarier than Night of the Living Deadbut everybody really should see it. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:40 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: South Korea (OT) It's Korea, so no, there's nothing we can do. They still EAT cats and dogs there, skinning them alive after plunging them live into a pot of boiling water. The good news with global warming, most of the Asian countries that are so backwards in animal welfare will be partially under water as the sea rises, so... it's a temporary problem; a very temporary problem, if trends continue as they are. Don't believe me... rent the new movie that's out in the rental stores called An Inconvenient Truth. http://www.climatecrisis.net/ Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have specifically stated to the contrary in writing, any advice we provide in this email or any attachment concerning federal tax issues or submissions is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid federal tax penalties.
Re: Guage of needles for subQ???
Yes, sub-q can be done with smaller needles, keep in mind that the smaller the needle, the LONGER it will take to get the same amount of fluids in, if you go too small, you may have to sit there and squeeze the bag the entire time (and it could take 30 minutes of longer). There has been some studies done that suggest that keeping the needles refrigerated or frozen before use lessens the pain. Start by going one size smaller, and go down until she seems to accept it better, but stay as large as you can to keep the flow moving quickly. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
IDEXX discount for shelters/rescues
Just talked to a rep at Idexx. Non-profit rescues can purchase 3o FIV/FeLV test kits for $288. 30 of the FeLV tests can be purchased for $227. Not bad. All they need is a short form filled out annd a copy of the IRS 501(c)(3) determination letter.
loose stools
I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane
Re: loose stools
Any suggestions? Yeah -- metronidazole (Flagyl). Parasites, such as giardia, very often do not show up in a fecal. I'm surprised the vet did not mention this. Many vets will treat with metronidazole on the basis of symptoms, even when a fecal is negative. I don't think I'd be jumping ahead to cancer without at least trying standard treatments for giardia (metronidazole) and coccidia (Albon). If both of these failed I would look at tritrichomonas foetus (treated with Ronidazole). Is it possible the vet is assuming lymphoma because the cat is FeLV+ rather than looking at more common and treatable causes? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane
RE: loose stools
My corona virus positive kitties have had bad diarrhea for a long time - try homeopathic remedy called sulphur 30 C potent, dissolve in water - it won't hurt but it has worked like a miracle for some of my kitties with unknown cause. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:09 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: loose stools Any suggestions? Yeah -- metronidazole (Flagyl). Parasites, such as giardia, very often do not show up in a fecal. I'm surprised the vet did not mention this. Many vets will treat with metronidazole on the basis of symptoms, even when a fecal is negative. I don't think I'd be jumping ahead to cancer without at least trying standard treatments for giardia (metronidazole) and coccidia (Albon). If both of these failed I would look at tritrichomonas foetus (treated with Ronidazole). Is it possible the vet is assuming lymphoma because the cat is FeLV+ rather than looking at more common and treatable causes? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
Well, I have *counts on fingers* 6 cats of my own and 22 fosters, and that's insane for me. My house is 1200 sq feet, which still feels huge to me after living in a 388 sq foot efficiency apartment for 3 years (with only 1 cat). I can cope with it, more or less. There are 3 or 4 cats who aren't social at all. I work with them as I can. Then there are those that will run and jump into a stranger's lap:) They get needed vet care and the best food I can afford, which currently happens to be Felidae. I'm also in a state of chronic exhaustion and don't have enough time to do the other things I need to do. My friend who does Persian rescue has 40+, but she has a live in person to help. When that person graduates and gets her own place she's told me she will have to cut down considerably. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sane is what works for you, not what the general public would consider the norm. A lot of people can cope with 20 or 30 cats -- if the house is big enough, there's more than one person around to give them attention, socialize the kittens, feed and clean, annd enough money to care for their needs -- but the average citizen would consider that quite insane. There are also far too many situations where people neglect even one or two cats no matter their resources We aim to give the foster cats a normal home/family environment. And the foster homes have to be clean enough that you can let adopters in to at least part of the house. Seems to work pretty well. I am always complimented on how well socialized the kittens and cats are. Their personalities shine through. It's always so bittersweet to see them leave for their forever homes. *Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Yes, mine are not caged either. Most of the time when I see cages used it is at the large shelters, such as the city animal shelter and the humane society. No one stressed keeping numbers sane when I started doing this and my numbers are not sane at this time. But live and learn, and I'm not taking any more in until I adopt several out. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would otherwise have been killed. Same with the group I am now having problems with. They've rehomed 5,000 cats. I'm just trying to make it my policy to not verbally run down other rescue groups or expend my efforts trying to get them shut down. I'm in this to help cats, not get involved in politics. I have to remind myself of that just about daily. My model is Best Friends in Kaneb, Utah, and they didn't get to where they
Re: loose stools
It could also just be the food. We had a cat at the shelter with horrible diarrhea. After tons of money spent on tests (all negative) and meds, switching his food has solved the problem. If he eats anything else, it comes back. Beth Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions? Yeah -- metronidazole (Flagyl). Parasites, such as giardia, very often do not show up in a fecal. I'm surprised the vet did not mention this. Many vets will treat with metronidazole on the basis of symptoms, even when a fecal is negative. I don't think I'd be jumping ahead to cancer without at least trying standard treatments for giardia (metronidazole) and coccidia (Albon). If both of these failed I would look at tritrichomonas foetus (treated with Ronidazole). Is it possible the vet is assuming lymphoma because the cat is FeLV+ rather than looking at more common and treatable causes? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
Re: loose stools
It could also be IBD. There are lots of possible causes for chronic diarrhea other than cancer. I find that to be a rather bizarre statement. Fortiflora by Purina Veterinary Diets, which is a probiotic or friendly bacteria Enterococcus faeciumSF68, has helped one of my cats significantly with her chronic diarrhea. My vet gave me a box free but I believe you can buy a similar product in health food stores. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions? Yeah -- metronidazole (Flagyl). Parasites, such as giardia, very often do not show up in a fecal. I'm surprised the vet did not mention this. Many vets will treat with metronidazole on the basis of symptoms, even when a fecal is negative. I don't think I'd be jumping ahead to cancer without at least trying standard treatments for giardia (metronidazole) and coccidia (Albon). If both of these failed I would look at tritrichomonas foetus (treated with Ronidazole). Is it possible the vet is assuming lymphoma because the cat is FeLV+ rather than looking at more common and treatable causes? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
My housemate has very much become my rescue partner. When he was out of town for a week and I was on my own I almost lost my mind. He gives them lunch and does the afternoon scooping of litterboxes, and also gives them a lot of attention. He also does our weekly Walmart run for food and litter. Makes a huge difference. I know the week he was gone was a nightmare for meand no doubt for the cats asa well. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well, I have *counts on fingers* 6 cats of my own and 22 fosters, and that's insane for me. My house is 1200 sq feet, which still feels huge to me after living in a 388 sq foot efficiency apartment for 3 years (with only 1 cat). I can cope with it, more or less. There are 3 or 4 cats who aren't social at all. I work with them as I can. Then there are those that will run and jump into a stranger's lap:) They get needed vet care and the best food I can afford, which currently happens to be Felidae. I'm also in a state of chronic exhaustion and don't have enough time to do the other things I need to do. My friend who does Persian rescue has 40+, but she has a live in person to help. When that person graduates and gets her own place she's told me she will have to cut down considerably. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sane is what works for you, not what the general public would consider the norm. A lot of people can cope with 20 or 30 cats -- if the house is big enough, there's more than one person around to give them attention, socialize the kittens, feed and clean, annd enough money to care for their needs -- but the average citizen would consider that quite insane. There are also far too many situations where people neglect even one or two cats no matter their resources We aim to give the foster cats a normal home/family environment. And the foster homes have to be clean enough that you can let adopters in to at least part of the house. Seems to work pretty well. I am always complimented on how well socialized the kittens and cats are. Their personalities shine through. It's always so bittersweet to see them leave for their forever homes. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, mine are not caged either. Most of the time when I see cages used it is at the large shelters, such as the city animal shelter and the humane society. No one stressed keeping numbers sane when I started doing this and my numbers are not sane at this time. But live and learn, and I'm not taking any more in until I adopt several out. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they should be aware of that. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either. BUT this group has done a lot of good, even if I am not thrilled with their methods. Lots of dogs have found forever homes that would
Re: loose stools
Yes, I hear higher fiber is good sometimes...but then if they have IBD you may need a different protein source...like venison or God forbid rabbit. On 11/27/06, Gussies mom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It could also just be the food. We had a cat at the shelter with horrible diarrhea. After tons of money spent on tests (all negative) and meds, switching his food has solved the problem. If he eats anything else, it comes back. Beth *Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Any suggestions? Yeah -- metronidazole (Flagyl). Parasites, such as giardia, very often do not show up in a fecal. I'm surprised the vet did not mention this. Many vets will treat with metronidazole on the basis of symptoms, even when a fecal is negative. I don't think I'd be jumping ahead to cancer without at least trying standard treatments for giardia (metronidazole) and coccidia (Albon). If both of these failed I would look at tritrichomonas foetus (treated with Ronidazole). Is it possible the vet is assuming lymphoma because the cat is FeLV+ rather than looking at more common and treatable causes? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane -- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=45083/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
At 02:22 PM 11/27/2006, you wrote: susan Please loan me your room mate!!! I may even cook once in a while. With these 42 or 43 cats , job and business that explains my insanity??? My housemate has very much become my rescue partner. When he was out of town for a week and I was on my own I almost lost my mind. He gives them lunch and does the afternoon scooping of litterboxes, and also gives them a lot of attention. He also does our weekly Walmart run for food and litter. Makes a huge difference. I know the week he was gone was a nightmare for meand no doubt for the cats asa well. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I have *counts on fingers* 6 cats of my own and 22 fosters, and that's insane for me. My house is 1200 sq feet, which still feels huge to me after living in a 388 sq foot efficiency apartment for 3 years (with only 1 cat). I can cope with it, more or less. There are 3 or 4 cats who aren't social at all. I work with them as I can. Then there are those that will run and jump into a stranger's lap:) They get needed vet care and the best food I can afford, which currently happens to be Felidae. I'm also in a state of chronic exhaustion and don't have enough time to do the other things I need to do. My friend who does Persian rescue has 40+, but she has a live in person to help. When that person graduates and gets her own place she's told me she will have to cut down considerably. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sane is what works for you, not what the general public would consider the norm. A lot of people can cope with 20 or 30 cats -- if the house is big enough, there's more than one person around to give them attention, socialize the kittens, feed and clean, annd enough money to care for their needs -- but the average citizen would consider that quite insane. There are also far too many situations where people neglect even one or two cats no matter their resources We aim to give the foster cats a normal home/family environment. And the foster homes have to be clean enough that you can let adopters in to at least part of the house. Seems to work pretty well. I am always complimented on how well socialized the kittens and cats are. Their personalities shine through. It's always so bittersweet to see them leave for their forever homes. Kelley Saveika mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, mine are not caged either. Most of the time when I see cages used it is at the large shelters, such as the city animal shelter and the humane society. No one stressed keeping numbers sane when I started doing this and my numbers are not sane at this time. But live and learn, and I'm not taking any more in until I adopt several out. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. On 11/24/06, ETrent mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in front of local PetSmarts (which in and of itself is a pretty good idea, I think). The ones who aren't adopted go back to the pound at night:(. Unfortunately several of these dogs have been adopted out and come down with distemper and parvo. This made the local news and the owner of this group stated that people were taking a risk if they adopted and they
RE: loose stools
The estimate is that around 85% of cats are corona positive at some point in
their lives. Corona positive cats do not have to have diarrhea, and I've had
kittens die of FIP who had perfect poop. (As have others in the FIP group.)
One thing that was said in the FIP group awhile back -- one member dealt with
a couple of overcrowded cattery/hoarder type situations. One had a high
incidence of FIP, the other did not. The difference was that, the one with the
high incidence of FIP, also had a high incidence of giardia. I also know
someone with 40+ cats in her house and chronic diarrhea. She has a high
incidence of FIP and, even without FIP, cats die around 8 years of age. Also
saw something over the weekend re puppymill dogs with chronic untreated giardia
and coccidia. They develop actual perforations in the intestines from chronic
parasites.
What I got from all this was that I needed to be agressive in treating
diarrhea. It is possible the irritation from chronic parasite infestation
makes it easier for FOCV and FIPV to take hold in a cat's system. It appears
that, if left untreated, it can do longterm damage to the intestines.
After a basic deworming with Drontal, use Metronidazole for giardia, Albon
for coccidia, Ronidazole for tritrichomonas foetus -- it's as simple as that.
And follow 'em to the litterbox, monitor poop quality, scoop and clean the
boxes frequently.
Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }My corona virus positive
kitties have had bad diarrhea for a long time try homeopathic remedy called
sulphur 30 C potent, dissolve in water it wont hurt but it has worked like a
miracle for some of my kitties with unknown cause.
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:09 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: loose stools
Any suggestions? Yeah -- metronidazole (Flagyl). Parasites, such as
giardia, very often do not show up in a fecal. I'm surprised the vet did not
mention this. Many vets will treat with metronidazole on the basis of
symptoms, even when a fecal is negative. I don't think I'd be jumping ahead to
cancer without at least trying standard treatments for giardia (metronidazole)
and coccidia (Albon). If both of these failed I would look at tritrichomonas
foetus (treated with Ronidazole). Is it possible the vet is assuming lymphoma
because the cat is FeLV+ rather than looking at more common and treatable
causes?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic
diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for
parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how
long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive
cat.
Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use
pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some
degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the
litterbox frequently.
Thanks for any info.
Diane
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
I could rent him out. But then I'd be back to crazy myself. I truly learned to appreciate him when he was gone a week. Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:22 PM 11/27/2006, you wrote: susan Please loan me your room mate!!! I may even cook once in a while. With these 42 or 43 cats , job and business that explains my insanity??? My housemate has very much become my rescue partner. When he was out of town for a week and I was on my own I almost lost my mind. He gives them lunch and does the afternoon scooping of litterboxes, and also gives them a lot of attention. He also does our weekly Walmart run for food and litter. Makes a huge difference. I know the week he was gone was a nightmare for meand no doubt for the cats asa well. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I have *counts on fingers* 6 cats of my own and 22 fosters, and that's insane for me. My house is 1200 sq feet, which still feels huge to me after living in a 388 sq foot efficiency apartment for 3 years (with only 1 cat). I can cope with it, more or less. There are 3 or 4 cats who aren't social at all. I work with them as I can. Then there are those that will run and jump into a stranger's lap:) They get needed vet care and the best food I can afford, which currently happens to be Felidae. I'm also in a state of chronic exhaustion and don't have enough time to do the other things I need to do. My friend who does Persian rescue has 40+, but she has a live in person to help. When that person graduates and gets her own place she's told me she will have to cut down considerably. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sane is what works for you, not what the general public would consider the norm. A lot of people can cope with 20 or 30 cats -- if the house is big enough, there's more than one person around to give them attention, socialize the kittens, feed and clean, annd enough money to care for their needs -- but the average citizen would consider that quite insane. There are also far too many situations where people neglect even one or two cats no matter their resources We aim to give the foster cats a normal home/family environment. And the foster homes have to be clean enough that you can let adopters in to at least part of the house. Seems to work pretty well. I am always complimented on how well socialized the kittens and cats are. Their personalities shine through. It's always so bittersweet to see them leave for their forever homes. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, mine are not caged either. Most of the time when I see cages used it is at the large shelters, such as the city animal shelter and the humane society. No one stressed keeping numbers sane when I started doing this and my numbers are not sane at this time. But live and learn, and I'm not taking any more in until I adopt several out. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. On 11/24/06, ETrent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it isn't a perfect world...and I totally support the ideal of rescuing kitties and making their lives better...I just wish that there was some kind of guideline that ensured the welfare of the rescued kitties. My whole experience has left me very resentful of cat rescues...and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who are involved in this sort of thing. I realize that I am myopic and perhaps you can help me see more clearly. This certainly sounds bad. There is a rescue around here that I think of as...well, questionable. They take dogs out of the pound every day and take them around and display them in
RE: loose stools
With Giardia you really have to dump and bleach litterpans daily. I just get
the canned food box bottoms from Petsmart (They've gotten to where they know me
and save them for me when I need them). Just put some litter in them and dump
them daily.
The small ones are great for kittens.
Beth
Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The estimate is that around 85% of cats are corona positive at some point
in their lives. Corona positive cats do not have to have diarrhea, and I've
had kittens die of FIP who had perfect poop. (As have others in the FIP group.)
One thing that was said in the FIP group awhile back -- one member dealt with
a couple of overcrowded cattery/hoarder type situations. One had a high
incidence of FIP, the other did not. The difference was that, the one with the
high incidence of FIP, also had a high incidence of giardia. I also know
someone with 40+ cats in her house and chronic diarrhea. She has a high
incidence of FIP and, even without FIP, cats die around 8 years of age. Also
saw something over the weekend re puppymill dogs with chronic untreated giardia
and coccidia. They develop actual perforations in the intestines from chronic
parasites.
What I got from all this was that I needed to be agressive in treating
diarrhea. It is possible the irritation from chronic parasite infestation
makes it easier for FOCV and FIPV to take hold in a cat's system. It appears
that, if left untreated, it can do longterm damage to the intestines.
After a basic deworming with Drontal, use Metronidazole for giardia, Albon
for coccidia, Ronidazole for tritrichomonas foetus -- it's as simple as that.
And follow 'em to the litterbox, monitor poop quality, scoop and clean the
boxes frequently.
Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }My corona virus
positive kitties have had bad diarrhea for a long time try homeopathic remedy
called sulphur 30 C potent, dissolve in water it wont hurt but it has worked
like a miracle for some of my kitties with unknown cause.
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:09 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: loose stools
Any suggestions? Yeah -- metronidazole (Flagyl). Parasites, such as
giardia, very often do not show up in a fecal. I'm surprised the vet did not
mention this. Many vets will treat with metronidazole on the basis of
symptoms, even when a fecal is negative. I don't think I'd be jumping ahead to
cancer without at least trying standard treatments for giardia (metronidazole)
and coccidia (Albon). If both of these failed I would look at tritrichomonas
foetus (treated with Ronidazole). Is it possible the vet is assuming lymphoma
because the cat is FeLV+ rather than looking at more common and treatable
causes?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic
diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for
parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how
long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive
cat.
Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use
pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some
degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the
litterbox frequently.
Thanks for any info.
Diane
-
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RE:loose stools
A friend and I were talking the other day about how people would think we were crazy if they listened into our conversations. We both do rescue and I swear 70% of our conversations are about cat poop. Beth - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Re: Stamp/Anemia/Litter suggestions
Maybe try World's Best or sWheat Scoop? Those are both wheat or corn based I think... should be digestible, at least. I'd definitely try to use something digestible corn, wheat... something like that. I'm currently using HORSE stall pine shavings, and it's saved me TONS of money already. A huge bale costs $3.99 and I swear, it's like a 6 month supply. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: loose stools
Specifically WHICH parasites did your vet test for? How about Giardia, Coccidia, and Tritrichomonsis? Have you done food trials to test for food allergies? The best treatment for diarrhea is to find the cause and to treat the cause that involves lots of testing. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
Re: Stamp/Anemia/Litter suggestions
*I had someone once tell me she swears by chicken crumble that you get at the feed store! We couldn't use it... but we tried it! I think it would work for someone who only has a few cats. The Worlds Best litter is good though ... I always use that for kittens.* *Leslie =^..^=* On 11/27/06, Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe try World's Best or sWheat Scoop? Those are both wheat or corn based I think... should be digestible, at least. I'd definitely try to use something digestible corn, wheat... something like that. I'm currently using HORSE stall pine shavings, and it's saved me TONS of money already. A huge bale costs $3.99 and I swear, it's like a 6 month supply. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html -- Leslie =^..^= To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded. That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: loose stools
Try apple pectin. Also rule out food allergies and pancreas problems. Many vets don't even think about food allergies. They caused the Royal Princess Kitty Katt all sorts of problems. And she developed them late in life. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:00 PM Subject: loose stools I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane
Re: Pepper died
Candace, I am new to the list, so don't know you yet. I do however, know about the loss of our beloved pets. My deepest condolences and may you have peace knowing your baby is pain free and in heaven now. Dianne - Original Message - From: Candace Doler To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: RE: Pepper died Thank-you -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gussies mom Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:53 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died So sorry about you loss. Beth Stamp -- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
Re: loose stools
Agreed. You have to find the cause. But, because some parasites often do not show up on a fecal, many vets will assume the parasites are present and treat accordingly. If a week of metronidazole makes no difference, then it probably isn't giardia. Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Specifically WHICH parasites did your vet test for? How about Giardia, Coccidia, and Tritrichomonsis? Have you done food trials to test for food allergies? The best treatment for diarrhea is to find the cause and to treat the cause that involves lots of testing. Phaewryn Please save Whitey! http://ucat.us/Whitey.html VT low cost SpayNeuter, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html
RE: Pepper died
I am so very sorry of your loss of your special baby - please know that your baby is at a place with lots of peace -her soul is still right besides you.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dianne K Perry, Ph.D. Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:25 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died Candace, I am new to the list, so don't know you yet. I do however, know about the loss of our beloved pets. My deepest condolences and may you have peace knowing your baby is pain free and in heaven now. Dianne - Original Message - From: Candace Doler mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: RE: Pepper died Thank-you _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gussies mom Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:53 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Pepper died So sorry about you loss. Beth Stamp _ Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo .com/unlimited/
Re: Giardia
http://www.revivalanimal.com/product.asp?pn=98%2D840 But I like metronidazole better. I think it's more effective. i buy it from www.1drugstore-online.com Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Susan, Where on Revivalanimal did you find the 10% solution? I'm not turning anything up. On 10/30/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How big? 10% or 2.5% solution? (I'm getting ready to order the 1000 ml size of 10% from revivalanimal.com .) Sounds like panacur is the way to go these days. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, he gave me Panacur. $11 for a huge bottle. -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: Giardia
From that link Jennifer provided metronidazole is 60-70% effective. I have a rescue friend who uses both at the same time, which may be the way to go. I'm having a hard time getting rid of this stuff. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.revivalanimal.com/product.asp?pn=98%2D840 But I like metronidazole better. I think it's more effective. i buy it from www.1drugstore-online.com *Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Hi Susan, Where on Revivalanimal did you find the 10% solution? I'm not turning anything up. On 10/30/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How big? 10% or 2.5% solution? (I'm getting ready to order the 1000 ml size of 10% from revivalanimal.com .) Sounds like panacur is the way to go these days. *Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Ok, he gave me Panacur. $11 for a huge bottle. -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: Giardia
Leaving my office right now but I'll email more later. I have recently been rewarded with perfect poop in two cats who were having a hard time shaking the giardia. One of my fosters has also had similar results recently. I have used both together but it's the metronidazole that I swear by. Might have to do it for several weeks in tough cases but it works. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From that link Jennifer provided metronidazole is 60-70% effective. I have a rescue friend who uses both at the same time, which may be the way to go. I'm having a hard time getting rid of this stuff. On 11/27/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.revivalanimal.com/product.asp?pn=98%2D840 But I like metronidazole better. I think it's more effective. i buy it from www.1drugstore-online.com Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Susan, Where on Revivalanimal did you find the 10% solution? I'm not turning anything up. On 10/30/06, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How big? 10% or 2.5% solution? (I'm getting ready to order the 1000 ml size of 10% from revivalanimal.com .) Sounds like panacur is the way to go these days. Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, he gave me Panacur. $11 for a huge bottle. -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: loose stools
If it is lymphoma, it is small cell, because 5 months is a long time for large cell going untreated-- cat would not be alive. Even with small cell, there is usually some lethargy. Is she lethargic? My positive cat Lucy has IBD. I was very scared it was lymphoma at first, and have been several times since, but it has been over a year now. She is on a home-made diet and a low dose of prednisone and is now doing a 2 month course of low dose metronidazole, which seems to be helping. Her diarrhea is controlled with these treatments. She has occasionally had flare-ups that scare me, though. IBD can turn into lymphoma, they think maybe this happens because of the inflammation (there is a theory that inflammation is a major cause or precondition of cancer). Severe IBD and small cell lymphoma are treated the same way-- with prednisone and a chemo pill called Leukeran (aka chlorambucil). I did not want to get Lucy scoped for lymphoma, so I started her on pred (start at about 10 mg/day and then taper) and home-made diet, and when this completely controlled the diarrhea I just kept treating her for IBD. I figure that if the diarrhea ever stops responding to diet, pred, and metronidazole, I will take her to an internist and ask for the leukeran, which would be the treatment with or without lymphoma if she is bad enough. Until then, I just treat for IBD. Michelle In a message dated 11/27/2006 5:09:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been fostering a FELV pos. cat for over 6 months and she has chronic diarrhea multiple times a day. She has been tested numerous times for parasites and been dewormed. Our vet feels it may be lymphoma. If it is, how long do these cats live? Otherwise she is doing fairly well for a positive cat. Also, any suggestions to combatting the diarrhea would be helpful. I use pumpkin, slippery elm, and bentonite clay powder daily which helps to some degree. Her stools are still soft and she has accidents still and is in the litterbox frequently. Thanks for any info. Diane
Re: Genevieve
Sending prayers, and encourage you again to try Immuno-regulin with her. It has really helped my cats get through bad URI's, most recently Lucy who could not seem to kick the URI until getting I-R. Michelle In a message dated 11/27/2006 1:16:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank you all for your prayers and good thoughts for beautiful Vitter Vits.I have been going to visit her everyday all this week.Last night Dr. Jen took her to her house and to the clinic today to help her along with trying to fight this URI along with Otitis in her left ear.Jen is trying to talk me into bringing her home to be with me after she gets her feeling better.I just don't think that I can do it.I have the 3 fiv+ and the neg and am so glad that they are clear of felv.I would feel aweful if one of them or any at all might get it. I know they ALL have lived amongst the felv+ but I just am so afraid to risk it. But I sure do love that beautiful baby girl.I cry when I hold her and she sings that beautiful song of purrs. :) Just thinking about her now is bringing tears.She has taken a special place in my heart,that will be so broken when it is her time to go.I am amazed my heart is still working after all the loss I have had to deal with.But the love that I have for those wonderful furry critters always keeps me going.And just having all of you here to let me whine,cry or whatever it may be.Thank you all so much.Sorry this is soo long.Please keep praying for my girl. Take care, Sherry
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
I am so glad to hear you say this. It makes me so sad to think of kitties having to live in cages for years. It's a terrible way to live...and they never really get any social interaction. A temp. quarantine due to illness is quite different from living that way indefinitely. What you describe sounds ideal. elizabeth In a message dated 11/27/2006 12:49:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages.
Re: OT Big problem, help
thanks for the link. elizabeth In a message dated 11/27/2006 10:58:50 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Honestly, they aren't all like that at all. I promise! I know lots of good rescuers. You're free to verbally run them down as you aren't in the business. I just try not to, since I believe we (rescuers) all need to cooperate as much as possible for the good of the animals. Go take a look at Best Friends website. _http://www.bestfriends.org_ (http://www.bestfriends.org/) They are my model, and they always talk about how they started out with just a few feral cat traps.:)
Re: OT Big problem/Elaine
My fosters sleep with me at night (well, the ones who want to do). :) On 11/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am so glad to hear you say this. It makes me so sad to think of kitties having to live in cages for years. It's a terrible way to live...and they never really get any social interaction. A temp. quarantine due to illness is quite different from living that way indefinitely. What you describe sounds ideal. elizabeth In a message dated 11/27/2006 12:49:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What you described is not the way all rescues operate. Many use foster homes and have the cats in a normal cage-free home environment. That's how I do things. Once cats have been tested for FeLV and vaccinnated (and defleaed and dewormed) they are integrated into the foster home and sleep on beds, rampage through the house, and do all the normal things cats do. We have adopters, after they have been screened and approved, come to the foster home to meet the cat. We also really try to keep numbers marginally sane so no one is stressed too badly; basically to keep a healthy environment. I have ONE kitten in a big condo cage at my house right now. She's a little stray, maybe 4 months old, who I had been seeing around for the past few weeks. Trapped her Saturday night, vaccinated Sunday. She'll stay in the condo cage and foyer for a 14 day quarantine and then she'll join the others in the house. That's about the only use I have for cages. -- Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
Re: Dr. Ward's consult/Michelle
I think that you have the perfect attitude, actually. And I am sorry for all you have been through. We have lost 9 animals in 5 years, plus a human, most after long illnesses, so truly understand what you are saying. At this point I freak out at the slightest sign of illness, fearing something terminal. But we also have a sheep who had acute kidney failure from copper poisoning and they did not think she would make it, and she not only made it but her kidneys have come closer to normal values than they said was even possible, knock on wood. And my dog Fern was given 2-6 months and lived 18 months with her sarcoma. So you really do never know. I am glad you are not upset with me. I was a bit tormented after I sent the email saying it is not curable, thinking maybe I should not have said that. But everything you said is right. I always think treatment that makes them feel good and extends their life is worth it, and something to be grateful for, and just hope for as much time as possible. Michelle In a message dated 11/26/2006 10:38:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, I have dealt with enough cancer in humans and dogs to know there are not guaranteesbut I always try to stay as positive as I can given any circumstances. I do have my down times and also try to be realistic. My goal for Asia is to give her the best life she can have for the longest she can have it, whatever it may be.I am just mostly happy at this stage that I thought it through and did some research before euthanizing and that we can do some treatments to assist her have some quality of life. I have done doggie hospice with 3 dogs since 2003, 2 of them last year and one was a cancerous tumor on his spine at C2 and one was Chronic Renal Failure that we treated for 2 yrs. these two were brothers and I had them since birth. I also had there mother and she had liver disease which I also treated for 2 yrs. along with heart disease. My cat that I had for 15 yrs was a diabetic the last 5 yrs. of her life and I gave her shots am and pm daily. Not that I want to do anymore hospice with any living thing but I have had the experience with dogs and also my father. My husband also had cancer and fought it for 2 yrs. My mother is a 4 time cancer survivor who is now 82 and going strong. I appreciate you wanting me to be informed and appreciate your honesty about the disease. I do lots of research on the diseases of my animals and my human family members and try to stay as informed as possible. I am also still grieving last years numerous deaths in my family so it was very difficult to euthanize Asia and it was also very difficult to face the possible caretaking again, but after a couple days of consideration and being sad, my decision was made to go forward with another opinion and treatment. So that is where I am with this, I will treat her as long as it is helping her, if she no longer has a quality of life then I will give her the loving peace of heaven. Thanks, Dianne
