[Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)
keith helgesen / 05.4.26 / 08:41 PM wrote: You tomAYto, I say tomARto! Does it matter? Unfortunately it does. Jazz theory is still young, and we are responsible for its unifying process. Gary Burton did an amazing job contributing to this, but it is still far from unified. There is almost always the best analysis than others. You must collect all the possible explanations to help chose the best analysis. If Chick Corea voices C - F - Bb - E, that is not C7sus(add3) to me. What would be the derived scale especially when you hear what context he uses it. It's Bb Lyd on C most of the times. Of course this doesn't imply when Chick is in his Spanish mode context, which is not what we have been discussion on this thread. Anyway, you can't have 11th in major chord family because it creates minor ninth interval, which destroys the identity of the tonal harmony. A dominant chord, however, can have minor 9th interval because the tri- tone will stand out above minor 9th interval dissonance. Other minor 9th interval along with the tri-tone even help tri-tone's 'wanting to resolve' effect. However, note that even tri-tone will be destroyed if minor 9th interval is placed against it, namely 11th. Gsus2 was a full of surprised to me, so I called a couple studio musician friends in NYC. Darcy was of course right. They are very familiar with sus2 chord, but they also told me it's a CODE for convenience only common in NYC, and they also told me the chord's real name is G2(add5). I was glad to hear they don't insists on 'sus'! -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tiger and FinMac 2005b
Could it be that it is Quickkeys which has stability problems with Tiger? That wouldn't suprise me at all (for what it's worth it had stability problems with Panther when I tried it out, far too unstable when _recording_ macros to be of much use). Johannes Randolph Peters schrieb: I've had a chance to try out Finale 2k5b with Tiger, the new operating system for the Mac. My initial reaction is that Finale works, but it is a bit unstable. I've had frequent crashes and other odd behaviours. These might get resolved the more I sort out conflicting keyboard commands newly assigned by the system and my own QuicKey macros, but I think there might need to be a Finale update to work with this system. More on this later as I experiment¦ When I first loaded Finale I got the missing font experience (squares and other shapes instead of notes) and that was only resolved when I used Font Book to eliminate duplicate fonts. This wasn't a problem with OS 10.3.9, the previous version of the system. Once things got fairly stable I was able to rotate my second monitor by 90 degrees and at the same time turn on the screen rotation by 90 degrees in the Display Preference Panel. (This is a new feature with Tiger.) My monitor is an 21 Apple Cinema Display hooked up to 17 PowerBook. Oh my Gawd! Now I know what Robert Patterson was raving about for all these years! I can see whole pages of orchestra score in a very readable magnification. And I love being able to see all those staves in staff view. This is going to increase my productivity by a large amount. I knew that rotation was a good idea when working with Finale, but until I actually saw it, I really didn't feel it. This is going to be good! -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)
On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:36 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Gsus2 was a full of surprised to me, so I called a couple studio musician friends in NYC. Darcy was of course right. They are very familiar with sus2 chord, but they also told me it's a CODE for convenience Isn't that what I said? Besides, all chord symbols are codes for convenience. That's the whole point of using them. only common in NYC Probably LA too. Also very common in publishing, although Chris is right that it's sometimes mis-used. (I might argue in response that there's a lot of sloppy pop publishing out there, and virtually all chord symbols are mis-used at one point or another. But it is used correctly and consistently in publications where the editor wasn't MIA.) and they also told me the chord's real name is G2(add5). I was glad to hear they don't insists on 'sus'! Well, I *did* suggest G5 (add 2) as an alternative to Gsus2, which I think is a little clearer than G2 (add5) because it's based on a standard chord symbol (G5), but the result is the same. As for the chord's real name, I have to admit I really don't care about such issues. IMO, the real name is the symbol that's actually on the part. If all the parts say Gsus2 than that's the real name, regardless of what the player might or might not be thinking. If you play in a scene where G2 (add 5) or whatever is used instead of Gsus2, then *that* is the real name for the chord in that musical community. Disputes about whether, for example, C Eb Gb Bb is really C minor seven flat five or C half diminished are, IMO, pointless. Since virtually everyone now understands both terms for the chord, I'm only interested in the most economical way of conveying to the player which notes are in the chord (i.e., Cø). You can tell me it isn't really half-diminished all day long, but it doesn't make the slightest difference to me so long as the player reads the symbol I wrote and plays the notes I want. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 13th chords
On Apr 25, 2005, at 9:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A number of people have stated that the 13th, for example a C 13th should have an F# in, it, i.e. the sharp 11th. The statement wasn't that it SHOULD have an F#, but that it can't be Fnat. The conventional solution is to omit any 11th on a 13th chord with a major 3rd, unless it is specifically included as in: C13sus4(add3) or C13(#11) You could of course use that, but I sometimes prefer to use the F (natural 11th) and omit the 3rd to avoid the minor ninth clash. The notation though is awkward. I guess you could say C 11th for example if the melody were on F Obviously you can't use a sharp 11th in that situation. That is right, except that C11 is an ambiguous chord. Everyone understands that you shouldn't have nat11ths with major 3rds in the same chord (modal and modern jazz notwithstanding, but it is explicitly added in those case) and C11 forces the 11th to be there, which might tempt some to have the 3rd as well. I know that C11 is usually interpreted as omitting the 3rd in that case, but calling it C9sus4 is a better, less ambiguous name. Whether or not you use a sus really is mostly dictated by the melody. That has more to do with usage than nomenclature, but even then, I don't necessarily agree. You might like the sus chord just for colour, even if the melody is nowhere near the 11th. Sometimes it's better to use a compound chord, like Gm9/C, which is more explicit. That's good, too. But in my music I prefer C13sus4 to Gm9/C, as it makes it immediately clear that we are talking about a C chord, not a Gm chord. I know that most jazz musicians get it right away in either case, but I use a lot of odd slash chords, so the ones that CAN be written as conventional root-position symbols ARE written that way in my music. (Note to Darcy, who is quick to leap on inconsistencies: No, I don't follow that rule 100%, only when it helps the clarity of the progression.) As you were. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 13th chords
On 26 Apr 2005, at 8:30 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: That's good, too. But in my music I prefer C13sus4 to Gm9/C, as it makes it immediately clear that we are talking about a C chord, not a Gm chord. I know that most jazz musicians get it right away in either case, but I use a lot of odd slash chords, so the ones that CAN be written as conventional root-position symbols ARE written that way in my music. (Note to Darcy, who is quick to leap on inconsistencies: No, I don't follow that rule 100%, only when it helps the clarity of the progression.) Heh. You'll get no argument from me on this one. I do generally prefer root-position chords to alternate bass chords, but it depends on the musical context. Sometimes, D/Bb is better than BbMA7(#5) -- and sometimes not. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] C13
On Apr 25, 2005, at 8:41 PM, keith helgesen wrote: Very interesting- but should not the old adage apply- use what works for you and your musos. Nobody is right, or wrong. Somebody said the chord C2 is modern. Who introduced it? What made it 'right'? Simple- usage. I personally don't use it- but I've made it my business to understand what those who DO use it require of me. I suspect all serious musos who use chord symbols will do the same. I would agree with you, except there is a big but... (as PeeWee Herman said, Everyone has a big but...) If you want your music to be transportable beyond your region, you will have to find the most consistent, universally-understood system to communicate it. For example, around here in the sixties and seventies everyone wrote major7th chords as a circled 7 - with the 7 INSIDE the circle. Local musicians understood it, in fact, even now experienced guys around here can read charts from that time with no confusion. But quite often someone tries to play it as a diminished chord, or misreads the 7 as a diagonal slash and so tries to play it as a half-diminished, or assumes somebody was just circling the 7 to draw attention to it and so plays it as a dominant, or just hangs there, hands in the air with wheels spinning, trying to hear what the rest of the band is playing. And I am sure that in many areas the circled 7 was NEVER used, so those charts are essentially unreadable, and thus unplayable, outside our little circle, which I find to be an enormous shame. That's why I include little notes about symbols that might be misunderstood, and only adopt non-standard notation when I have to. Heck, even between large centres like L.A. and N.Y.C. there are local differences in notation (and I am not convinced that Carl Brandt and Clinton Roemer, who wrote a little treatise on standardised chord symbol notation, had it completely right either.) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
I've posted on this topic before, but to review: I've found that many of my old scores which have been converted from earlier versions of Finale have developed duplicate hairpins. In other words, there are two identical smart shape hairpins lying directly on top of each other. (Most of the time I don't even notice, since I almost always use the TGTools shortcuts to move hairpins, instead of dragging them.) When I first brought this up, some people suggested it might be the fault of the new copying anomalies introduced in Fin2k5. I have to admit, most of those have not bothered me, mainly because I almost never use Copy Everything, and I use note expressions (not measure expressions) for virtually everything except rehearsal letters and tempo indications, etc. But apparently some of the copying weirdness in Fin2k5 affects smart shapes as well. Okay, I can understand that when copying hairpins from one staff to the ones below, some duplication might occur. Fine. But now I find myself looking at a piece where I *know* for a fact I've never copied the hairpins in the sop. sax solo part to any other part. And yet, almost all of the hairpins in that part have been duplicated. Has anyone else seen this? The other thing is that there are never more than two hairpins. I would expect, if there were some kind of copying anomaly that caused hairpins to spawn clones, they would just keep piling up, but they don't. When the hairpins have been duped, there's always just two of them, no more. I'm trying to pinpoint this behavior a little better so I can file a report with Coda. Has anyone else seen their hairpins duplicated like this? If so, under what circumstances? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] C13
On Apr 25, 2005, at 8:23 PM, dhbailey wrote: That's funny -- I was taught that you were supposed to add every odd interval up until the one indicated, so the chord would be 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13. That's correct, with a few exceptions. The perfect 11th and the major 3rd do not appear in the same chord, and all intervals are perfect or major except for the 7th unless specifically altered in the chord symbol. This is only about nomenclature, not usage, so not all those intervals are going to be consonant on all chord types anyway. Diminished 7th chords are another exception, and have rules all to themselves. Where is it written that for a 13th chord we should leave out the 11th? All over the place. Not having perfect 11ths with major 3rds is almost universally understood in the world of jazz and commercial musicians. And why would it have to be a #11 if we were to include it? One way around the avoid tone (harmonic dissonance) effect is to raise the offending note a semitone. This makes it harmonically consonant according to jazz common practice, but may take it out of the key, which is where we get into usage. (BTW, if you DO alter any chord member away from perfect or major (except the 7th, which is minor by default) then you have to note it in the symbol. The #11 is not usually taken for granted, which might have been the impression given.) The general rule for usage (if you are interested, otherwise just go on to the next message) for including #11 rather than just omitting the 11th altogether, is this: If the dominant chord is a regular V7 or secondary V7 (normally resolving by descending perfect 5th), then the #11 is only available as a non-diatonic alteration. In other words, from outside the key. These include (in the key of C major) C7, D7, E7, G7, A7 and B7. Almost every other dominant 7th functioning in the key, including tritone substitutes, takes a #11 diatonically. These include (in the key of C major) Db7, Eb7, F7, Gb7, Ab7, Bb7. If a major 7th chord is a I chord (or bIII in minor) then the #11 is only available as a non-diatonic alteration. This is Cmaj7. (and it shows up the most often, obviously!) All other major 7th chords in the extended key (that includes all the church modes of C) take the #11 diatonically. These include (in the key of C major) Dbmaj7, Ebmaj7, Fmaj7, Gbmaj7, Abmaj7, and Bbmaj7. (Does it show that I teach jazz theory?) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: 13th chords
On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:44 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Apr 2005, at 8:30 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: That's good, too. But in my music I prefer C13sus4 to Gm9/C, as it makes it immediately clear that we are talking about a C chord, not a Gm chord. I know that most jazz musicians get it right away in either case, but I use a lot of odd slash chords, so the ones that CAN be written as conventional root-position symbols ARE written that way in my music. (Note to Darcy, who is quick to leap on inconsistencies: No, I don't follow that rule 100%, only when it helps the clarity of the progression.) Heh. You'll get no argument from me on this one. I do generally prefer root-position chords to alternate bass chords, but it depends on the musical context. Sometimes, D/Bb is better than BbMA7(#5) -- and sometimes not. I completely agree. 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
Hi Thomas, There was no implosion in this score either -- each instrument has its own staff. I'm currently mystified -- almost, but not quite every, hairpin in the piece was duplicated. But I'm not sure at what stage in the process it happened. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:26 AM, Thomas Schaller wrote: a duplication always happens when merging two staves - I often get files from composers where for instance flutes are split in 2 staves: Flute 1 and Flute 2 - the publisher wants them to share the staff - so I implode the 2 staves into one: if you do that straight out, you'll end up with 2 sets of smart shapes (slurs, but also measure attached ones, like hairpins)), 2 sets of articulations, 2 sets of dynamics (note expressions) - the way around this (which is not a good one, because it can produce deletion of items that should be kept) is to delete artics, dynamics and smart shapes from one of the 2 staves before imploding - but I would say this behavior seems buggy to me... Thanks for taking this one, Darcy. Thomas On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:12 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I'm trying to pinpoint this behavior a little better so I can file a report with Coda. Has anyone else seen their hairpins duplicated like this? If so, under what circumstances? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)
On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:26 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Well, I *did* suggest G5 (add 2) as an alternative to Gsus2, which I think is a little clearer than G2 (add5) because it's based on a standard chord symbol (G5), but the result is the same. As for the chord's real name, I have to admit I really don't care about such issues. IMO, the real name is the symbol that's actually on the part. If all the parts say Gsus2 than that's the real name, regardless of what the player might or might not be thinking. If you play in a scene where G2 (add 5) or whatever is used instead of Gsus2, then *that* is the real name for the chord in that musical community. One of the reasons I like G2 for A-D-G (or any of the inversions thereof) is that it indicates an acoustic root for a stack of 4ths. If I am trying to write a progression based on a three-note stack of 4ths, but with a foreign bass note, there is no easy way to notate it without a quick-to-read symbol like G2. Triads over foreign bass notes are easy to notate, like A/D Bb/A A/D instead of Dmaj9(omit3) A7(b13b9sus4) Dmaj9(omit3) but how compact would a comparable progression with 4th stacks be? Eb2/Ab Db2/Bb C2 compared with Ebsus2/Ab Dbsus2/Bb Csus2 which I suppose could be written functionally as Ab6/9 Bbm11 Cadd9 for blowing purposes, but there is so much space saved with the first method, plus it's airier without the 3rds. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] PDF print problems
Still haven't been able to fix my PDF printout problem and thought I'd try the list for help once more. Am using Finale 2003 (music notation program) and Win98 2nd edition.When I save as to a PDF file, the printout shows lines around agraphic here and there. They look like they may be part of a boxaround the graphic (top and left side, not around the graphicentirely). Is there a (show/hide)option for frames around graphics?I had to redo a graphic now and then and am wondering if the linesare from a previous graphic that wasn't placed exactly where the lastone was.These lines don't show on the moniter..just on the printout ofthe PDF file. The printout of the Finale file is fine also.Any help would surely be appreciated.Thanks,George Ports ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale-Error Occurred. ID = -12
Mark-- Ugh. ID -12 usually means the file is corrupted, and it's time to go to the backup copy. If you don't have a backup, Try opening it from another Mac, or you can email it to me offlist, and I can try to open it on PC. On 4/25/05 12:03 PM, Mark Lortz [EMAIL PROTECTED] saith: When trying to access a Finale file on Mac OS 10.3.9 and Finale 2005 I ran into this error: While attempting to access file the file manager reported an error Finale-Error Occurred. ID = -12 Does anyone know of a way to open my file? Thanks mark ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)
On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:31 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: One of the reasons I like G2 for A-D-G (or any of the inversions thereof) is that it indicates an acoustic root for a stack of 4ths. Hmm. I see -- interesting. So long as players know there's a fifth in G2, I can see the usefulness of the symbol when it comes to notating alt bass chords concisely. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:09 AM, JD wrote: Darcy, I found this happened to me while assembling individual files into one score. The main nemesis for me was Robert's Mass Copy plugin. When I selected a range of source measures, and then simply copied it into the target file, everything was replaced EXCEPT any measure attached Smart Shapes. It left duplicates exactly as you describe. The workaround was pretty easy. Before pasting in with the plugin, I used the Clear button in the plugin or just cleared the target measures out before pasting. Problem eliminated. And QuicKeys made the whole process mindless. I was working in FinMac 2K3 under OS 9 when I encountered this problem. Actually, that is the same behaviour as Finale USED to have, even without the Mass Copy plugin. I didn't mind that, as I knew it and could deal with it. Nowadays, I don't know WHAT I'm going to get copied. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13)
However, in most pop music charts that I've seen (especially the Contemporary Christian genre) - G2 would be played as G-A-B-D (i.e. including the 3rd) - the sound you're talking about is most often seen as G2(no 3rd) in this arenaFWIW. TC On Apr 26, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:31 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: One of the reasons I like G2 for A-D-G (or any of the inversions thereof) is that it indicates an acoustic root for a stack of 4ths. Hmm. I see -- interesting. So long as players know there's a fifth in G2, I can see the usefulness of the symbol when it comes to notating alt bass chords concisely. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Muted pizz.
On Apr 25, 2005, at 4:30 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I just had an extended conversation with a violinist about mutes this weekend. Apparently there is quite a bit of importance attached to what the mute is made out of (most orchestra mutes in our area are hard rubber, but I heard wood and metal (!) mutes as well) and where it is attached (over the low strings, the high strings, or in the middle) and how far it is pushed down (farther dampens more.) Attaching it over the high strings was quite striking for high passages (over the staff) where it was remarkably velvety. That seems to be something that a conductor would have to ask for specifically, though, as it is considered to be fussy in the extreme. The message seems to have been garbled here. Violin-family mutes are not attached to the strings at all: they are attached to the top of the *bridge*, and they function by increasing the mass of the bridge and thereby decreasing the efficiency w. wh. the string vibrations are transmitted to the body of the inst. Eccentric outliers aside, there are two kinds of violin mute. The traditional mute is wood and is detached completely from the violin when not in use (it is kept in a breast pocket or on the music stand until needed). The other kind is the Roth-Sihon mute, invented in, I think, the 1940s; it consists of a rubber tube (rather like fishtank air hose) with three metal lugs inside it and a prong at each end. The prongs grab the outer strings behind the bridge (perhaps this is what is meant by a mute being attached over the strings, but it has no effect on the sound), and the mute sits there when not in use. To apply the mute, you simply slide it up onto the bridge, where the lugs bear down on the bridge between the strings. There is a metal version of the traditional mute, wh. is used as a practice mute in places such as hotel rooms where quiet must be maintained. I've never heard of it being used in music, but there's no reason it couldn't be. There are pictures of both types of mute, and further discussion, in my book. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] PDF print problems
George Ports wrote: Still haven't been able to fix my PDF printout problem and thought I'd try the list for help once more. Am using Finale 2003 (music notation program) and Win98 2nd edition. When I save as to a PDF file,... Here's how I create ~.pdf files from WinFin 2k3, on WIN 98 SE: I use a driver for a postscript printer (I use the HP 5100, postscript version, which I obtained as a free download, and installed as a system.), set to print to file. I print files to this printer, and use Ghostview to open the ~.ps files which result, and print them to ~.pdf's. I do not have the problems you describe which ghosting around the images. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
JD, I have never run Mass Copy on this document, nor copied anything from any other document. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 10:09 AM, JD wrote: Darcy, I found this happened to me while assembling individual files into one score. The main nemesis for me was Robert's Mass Copy plugin. When I selected a range of source measures, and then simply copied it into the target file, everything was replaced EXCEPT any measure attached Smart Shapes. It left duplicates exactly as you describe. The workaround was pretty easy. Before pasting in with the plugin, I used the Clear button in the plugin or just cleared the target measures out before pasting. Problem eliminated. And QuicKeys made the whole process mindless. I was working in FinMac 2K3 under OS 9 when I encountered this problem. *** J.D. Thomas ThomaStudios West Linn OR http://www.thomastudios.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film. on 4/26/05 6:12 AM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've posted on this topic before, but to review: I've found that many of my old scores which have been converted from earlier versions of Finale have developed duplicate hairpins. In other words, there are two identical smart shape hairpins lying directly on top of each other. (Most of the time I don't even notice, since I almost always use the TGTools shortcuts to move hairpins, instead of dragging them.) When I first brought this up, some people suggested it might be the fault of the new copying anomalies introduced in Fin2k5. I have to admit, most of those have not bothered me, mainly because I almost never use Copy Everything, and I use note expressions (not measure expressions) for virtually everything except rehearsal letters and tempo indications, etc. But apparently some of the copying weirdness in Fin2k5 affects smart shapes as well. Okay, I can understand that when copying hairpins from one staff to the ones below, some duplication might occur. Fine. But now I find myself looking at a piece where I *know* for a fact I've never copied the hairpins in the sop. sax solo part to any other part. And yet, almost all of the hairpins in that part have been duplicated. Has anyone else seen this? The other thing is that there are never more than two hairpins. I would expect, if there were some kind of copying anomaly that caused hairpins to spawn clones, they would just keep piling up, but they don't. When the hairpins have been duped, there's always just two of them, no more. I'm trying to pinpoint this behavior a little better so I can file a report with Coda. Has anyone else seen their hairpins duplicated like this? If so, under what circumstances? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Engraver Font Display
Does anyone use Engraver font besides me? I'm on Fin Mac 2004 OS X.3.9 At most zoom levels, sharp signs look awful - Does anyone know how to improve this? They always print just fine, but it's pretty ugly on screen. Any help is appreciated. _ with best wishes, John http://abram.ca/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:38 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: Can you be more specific about what edits you have done on the files once you open them? More specific? What do you mean, exactly? This file is an original composition for big band that I've been working on for a long time (far too long, in fact). I started the piece in Fin2004, but it was updated for Fin2005 a while back. Like I said, I haven't run Mass Copy or copied anything from other documents or imploded staves or done anything that is known to cause duplicate hairpins. I have noticed a lot of duplicate items piling up, particularly rehearsal letters and tempo indications, as you mentioned, See, I never have a problem with duplicate rehearsal letters or tempo indications, even in 2k5. and also measure-attached Smart Shapes like hairpins and Even 8ths custom lines, The only items I've seen duplicated are hairpins. Other measure-attached smart shapes, like trill extension lines, 8va lines, etc., aren't cloned -- at least, not in this file. I suspect that it isn't actually working as intended, and items are copying anyway, even though I set them NOT to copy. Could that be causing your problems? You said that you hardly ever copy EVERYTHING, but if it isn't filtering properly, could that be it? No -- the hairpins on the sop. sax. part have *never* been copied to or from another staff. And I'm getting duplicates everywhere in the score, not just on measures where I've copied something vertically. And copying measure-attached smart shapes only works as expected -- in fact, it's the *solution* to the problem. Remove the duplicate hairpins from one staff, then copy it to all the other staves. This behavior definitely does not cause duplicates. I take it that the duplicates don't show up when you first open the file; you have to do something first to cause it. I have no idea when the duplicates showed up, because they are exact copies of the original, superimposed perfectly. There is no way to even tell they're there except by clicking on them individually and dragging, to see if they leave their clone behind. Frankly, I'm stumped. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Maestoso Spam?
Did anyone else get a mail from the Maestoso mailing list? I got one through to an email address associated only with this list, I'm thinking they culled email addresses from here as I don't remember signing up to any list of theirs. Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tiger and FinMac 2005b
Could it be that it is Quickkeys which has stability problems with Tiger? Quickeys released a new version (3.0.2) today. There are a few Tiger fixes in there. - Fixed problem with QK's menu bar not showing when set to be hidden from dock. (Tiger) Changed how Click actions are handled when clicking on the Desktop. (Tiger) Addressed several issues with Menu Selection actions. (Tiger) Addressed an issue where recording could fail when selecting a menu item. (Tiger) Fixed issues that could occur when QuicKeys would show a user interface while in the background. (Tiger) - ... Tiger isn't even released for 3 days, so maybe the version you have isn't the final release anyway. Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
But as Christopher pointed out, I think this is normal pre-2k5 behavior even with normal copy/paste operations. Even from within the same file. I'm still making an arduous switch OS X an Fin 2005, so I can't really comment on the new copy behavior. *** J.D. Thomas ThomaStudios West Linn OR http://www.thomastudios.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. on 4/26/05 7:34 AM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JD, I have never run Mass Copy on this document, nor copied anything from any other document. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 10:09 AM, JD wrote: Darcy, I found this happened to me while assembling individual files into one score. The main nemesis for me was Robert's Mass Copy plugin. When I selected a range of source measures, and then simply copied it into the target file, everything was replaced EXCEPT any measure attached Smart Shapes. It left duplicates exactly as you describe. The workaround was pretty easy. Before pasting in with the plugin, I used the Clear button in the plugin or just cleared the target measures out before pasting. Problem eliminated. And QuicKeys made the whole process mindless. I was working in FinMac 2K3 under OS 9 when I encountered this problem. on 4/26/05 6:12 AM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've posted on this topic before, but to review: I've found that many of my old scores which have been converted from earlier versions of Finale have developed duplicate hairpins. In other words, there are two identical smart shape hairpins lying directly on top of each other. (Most of the time I don't even notice, since I almost always use the TGTools shortcuts to move hairpins, instead of dragging them.) When I first brought this up, some people suggested it might be the fault of the new copying anomalies introduced in Fin2k5. I have to admit, most of those have not bothered me, mainly because I almost never use Copy Everything, and I use note expressions (not measure expressions) for virtually everything except rehearsal letters and tempo indications, etc. But apparently some of the copying weirdness in Fin2k5 affects smart shapes as well. Okay, I can understand that when copying hairpins from one staff to the ones below, some duplication might occur. Fine. But now I find myself looking at a piece where I *know* for a fact I've never copied the hairpins in the sop. sax solo part to any other part. And yet, almost all of the hairpins in that part have been duplicated. Has anyone else seen this? The other thing is that there are never more than two hairpins. I would expect, if there were some kind of copying anomaly that caused hairpins to spawn clones, they would just keep piling up, but they don't. When the hairpins have been duped, there's always just two of them, no more. I'm trying to pinpoint this behavior a little better so I can file a report with Coda. Has anyone else seen their hairpins duplicated like this? If so, under what circumstances? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
JD, As I explained to Chris, this is *not* a problem with normal copy/paste behavior, even in 2k5. I rely on normal copy/paste behavior to *fix* the problem. There's definitely something else going on here. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 11:22 AM, JD wrote: But as Christopher pointed out, I think this is normal pre-2k5 behavior even with normal copy/paste operations. Even from within the same file. I'm still making an arduous switch OS X an Fin 2005, so I can't really comment on the new copy behavior. *** J.D. Thomas ThomaStudios West Linn OR http://www.thomastudios.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. on 4/26/05 7:34 AM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JD, I have never run Mass Copy on this document, nor copied anything from any other document. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 10:09 AM, JD wrote: Darcy, I found this happened to me while assembling individual files into one score. The main nemesis for me was Robert's Mass Copy plugin. When I selected a range of source measures, and then simply copied it into the target file, everything was replaced EXCEPT any measure attached Smart Shapes. It left duplicates exactly as you describe. The workaround was pretty easy. Before pasting in with the plugin, I used the Clear button in the plugin or just cleared the target measures out before pasting. Problem eliminated. And QuicKeys made the whole process mindless. I was working in FinMac 2K3 under OS 9 when I encountered this problem. on 4/26/05 6:12 AM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've posted on this topic before, but to review: I've found that many of my old scores which have been converted from earlier versions of Finale have developed duplicate hairpins. In other words, there are two identical smart shape hairpins lying directly on top of each other. (Most of the time I don't even notice, since I almost always use the TGTools shortcuts to move hairpins, instead of dragging them.) When I first brought this up, some people suggested it might be the fault of the new copying anomalies introduced in Fin2k5. I have to admit, most of those have not bothered me, mainly because I almost never use Copy Everything, and I use note expressions (not measure expressions) for virtually everything except rehearsal letters and tempo indications, etc. But apparently some of the copying weirdness in Fin2k5 affects smart shapes as well. Okay, I can understand that when copying hairpins from one staff to the ones below, some duplication might occur. Fine. But now I find myself looking at a piece where I *know* for a fact I've never copied the hairpins in the sop. sax solo part to any other part. And yet, almost all of the hairpins in that part have been duplicated. Has anyone else seen this? The other thing is that there are never more than two hairpins. I would expect, if there were some kind of copying anomaly that caused hairpins to spawn clones, they would just keep piling up, but they don't. When the hairpins have been duped, there's always just two of them, no more. I'm trying to pinpoint this behavior a little better so I can file a report with Coda. Has anyone else seen their hairpins duplicated like this? If so, under what circumstances? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] PDF print problems
Was hoping to make a pdf directly from finale but, looks like I may have to save it as an EPS, then make a PDF from that. I have Acrobat 5 complete and thought it should work.guess not. Thanks for your help Noel. George - Original Message - From: Noel Stoutenburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@SHSU.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] PDF print problems George Ports wrote: Still haven't been able to fix my PDF printout problem and thought I'd try the list for help once more. Am using Finale 2003 (music notation program) and Win98 2nd edition. When I save as to a PDF file,... Here's how I create ~.pdf files from WinFin 2k3, on WIN 98 SE: I use a driver for a postscript printer (I use the HP 5100, postscript version, which I obtained as a free download, and installed as a system.), set to print to file. I print files to this printer, and use Ghostview to open the ~.ps files which result, and print them to ~.pdf's. I do not have the problems you describe which ghosting around the images. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tiger and FinMac 2005b
Johannes Gebauer made a very good diagnosis when he suggested: Could it be that it is Quickkeys which has stability problems with Tiger? And Simon Troup astutely noted: Quickeys released a new version (3.0.2) today. There are a few Tiger fixes in there. [snip] ... Tiger isn't even released for 3 days, so maybe the version you have isn't the final release anyway. They started shipping Tiger out early. I definitely received the final release. Maybe I should have waited until there was a Tiger 10.4.1 !! At Apple, Quality is job 1.1 Ha ha. A little tech humour. Anyway, I haven't been able to get Quickeys 3.02 yet, because as of this morning, the version at the developer site is still 3.01 even though it says otherwise. I expect this to be fixed shortly. I'll let the list know if things go smoother with Finale, Tiger, and the newest Quickeys. -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] PDF print problems
Hi George-
I have practically the same configuration (Fin03 on a PC) and can't
duplicate the problem here.
When you say, the printout shows lines around a
graphic here and there, exactly what do you mean? Is there a line on, say,
the left side of a graphic, and the next page's graphic has a line on a
different side?
Please send me the file if you want and I'll run it through my own routines
to see what's going on. Make sure if you do this to send an offending actual
picture with the file so I can look at it, too. ('cos it sounds to me like
it's the picture at fault, maybe, not Finale.)
Cecil Rigby
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal)
www.harrockhall.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: George Ports [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: [Finale] PDF print problems
Still haven't been able to fix my PDF printout problem and thought I'd try
the list for help once more.
Am using Finale 2003 (music notation program) and Win98 2nd edition.
When I save as to a PDF file, the printout shows lines around a
graphic here and there. They look like they may be part of a box
around the graphic (top and left side, not around the graphic
entirely). Is there a (show/hide)option for frames around graphics?
I had to redo a graphic now and then and am wondering if the lines
are from a previous graphic that wasn't placed exactly where the last
one was.
These lines don't show on the moniter..just on the printout of
the PDF file. The printout of the Finale file is fine also.
Any help would surely be appreciated.
Thanks,
George Ports
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Re: [Finale] Tiger and FinMac 2005b
They started shipping Tiger out early. I definitely received the final release. Maybe I should have waited until there was a Tiger 10.4.1 !! Oh yeah, I'd hold off using it on anything other than a test partition until a few more reports are in, unless of course you're offering to be the lists official crash test dummy? Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
Yes. Exactly the same for me; I use this address only since March... Bernard2005/4/26, Simon Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Did anyone else get a mail from the Maestoso mailing list? I got one through to an email address associated only with this list, I'm thinking they culled email addresses from here as I don't remember signing up to any list of theirs.Simon Troup___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Eric ERIC RICHARDS Composer / Arranger Trombone / MIDI 310 W 21st Ave Fremont NE 68025-2525 http://net.mlc.edu/music/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] grouping notes in 7/8
Help, I don't know how to fix this: A student has given me a Finale file of a piece in 7/8. Lots of eighth notes, all flagged, even though the pattern is pretty consistently 2/2/3. Is there a way to beam the groups instead of all those spidery flags all ovr the page. 16ths and above are beamed, naturally, but oy, all those eighths. Help, and thanks in advance. Linda ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
I don't think so. I have had this current address for 5 months and have never gotten ANY spam on it (yet . . .), and I subscribed this address to 7 listservs. Knocking on anything in the immediate vicinity ;-) At 4/26/2005 12:07 PM, Bernard Nussbaumer wrote: Yes. Exactly the same for me; I use this address only since March... Bernard 2005/4/26, Simon Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Did anyone else get a mail from the Maestoso mailing list? I got one through to an email address associated only with this list, I'm thinking they culled email addresses from here as I don't remember signing up to any list of theirs. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8
Beam to time signature, using a composite time signature of 2+2+3 8ths. -Original Message- From: Linda Worsley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 04:51 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8 Help, I don't know how to fix this: A student has given me a Finale file of a piece in 7/8. Lots of eighth notes, all flagged, even though the pattern is pretty consistently 2/2/3. Is there a way to beam the groups instead of all those spidery flags all ovr the page. 16ths and above are beamed, naturally, but oy, all those eighths. Help, and thanks in advance. Linda ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
Personally, I think you are asking the wrong list. A better place to look might be a Sibelius list. Most of the Mac users on this list have made the switch to Finale for OSX, warts and all. If you want reasons *not* to switch and *to* put up with OSX setbacks in Finale, this is perhaps the place. But for help switching to Sib, I expect you would do better on a Sib list. FWIW: I was an OS9 holdout until earlier this year. I've made the switch to OSX now, though, and haven't looked back. It is certainly true there are minor annoyances with FinOSX, but overall I still work quite quickly. -Original Message- From: ER @ HOME [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 04:39 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X? Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Eric ERIC RICHARDS Composer / Arranger Trombone / MIDI 310 W 21st Ave Fremont NE 68025-2525 http://net.mlc.edu/music/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
I don't think so. I have had this current address for 5 months and have never gotten ANY spam on it (yet . . .), and I subscribed this address to 7 listservs. Phil, did you get an email with the subject ... Music for Learning Music for Teaching Music for Playing ... that's the one I'm talking about? Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Muted pizz.
On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Apr 25, 2005, at 4:30 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I just had an extended conversation with a violinist about mutes this weekend. Apparently there is quite a bit of importance attached to what the mute is made out of (most orchestra mutes in our area are hard rubber, but I heard wood and metal (!) mutes as well) and where it is attached (over the low strings, the high strings, or in the middle) and how far it is pushed down (farther dampens more.) Attaching it over the high strings was quite striking for high passages (over the staff) where it was remarkably velvety. That seems to be something that a conductor would have to ask for specifically, though, as it is considered to be fussy in the extreme. The message seems to have been garbled here. Violin-family mutes are not attached to the strings at all: they are attached to the top of the *bridge*, and they function by increasing the mass of the bridge and thereby decreasing the efficiency w. wh. the string vibrations are transmitted to the body of the inst. Yes, that was what I meant. But there is a difference in the sound if it is attached to the bridge where the TOP two strings are, the BOTTOM two strings, or where the MIDDLE two strings are (the most usual placement.) I saw and heard the difference in different registers. It dampens more when it is attached in the register that you are playing in. Eccentric outliers aside, there are two kinds of violin mute. The traditional mute is wood and is detached completely from the violin when not in use (it is kept in a breast pocket or on the music stand until needed). The other kind is the Roth-Sihon mute, invented in, I think, the 1940s; it consists of a rubber tube (rather like fishtank air hose) with three metal lugs inside it and a prong at each end. The prongs grab the outer strings behind the bridge (perhaps this is what is meant by a mute being attached over the strings, No. See above. but it has no effect on the sound), and the mute sits there when not in use. To apply the mute, you simply slide it up onto the bridge, where the lugs bear down on the bridge between the strings. There is a metal version of the traditional mute, wh. is used as a practice mute in places such as hotel rooms where quiet must be maintained. I've never heard of it being used in music, but there's no reason it couldn't be. I heard this one, and he attached it so that it was barely on at all (not pushed down the way it normally is supposed to be), yet the sound was still greatly affected. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
Simon, I didn't get that either, but I have my email set to trust junk mail headers set by my ISP, so perhaps that's it. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 1:32 PM, Simon Troup wrote: I don't think so. I have had this current address for 5 months and have never gotten ANY spam on it (yet . . .), and I subscribed this address to 7 listservs. Phil, did you get an email with the subject ... Music for Learning Music for Teaching Music for Playing ... that's the one I'm talking about? Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tiger and FinMac 2005b
At 4:48 PM +0100 4/26/05, Simon Troup wrote: They started shipping Tiger out early. I definitely received the final release. Maybe I should have waited until there was a Tiger 10.4.1 !! Oh yeah, I'd hold off using it on anything other than a test partition until a few more reports are in, unless of course you're offering to be the lists official crash test dummy? I will bash my head a few times for the sake of this list, but I do have a plan B in case it all goes awry. Now where did I put that backup? -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] My Long Post on Clip Files Combining Movements
Did this post go through? If so, can anyone tell me why they have nothing to say in response? Am I the only person on the list trying to combine files using clip file copying? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
I didn't get that one, and it's not in my junk folder (no filtering on the ISP other than marking messages) Darcy James Argue wrote: Simon, I didn't get that either, but I have my email set to trust junk mail headers set by my ISP, so perhaps that's it. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 1:32 PM, Simon Troup wrote: I don't think so. I have had this current address for 5 months and have never gotten ANY spam on it (yet . . .), and I subscribed this address to 7 listservs. Phil, did you get an email with the subject ... Music for Learning Music for Teaching Music for Playing ... that's the one I'm talking about? Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
At 4/26/2005 01:32 PM, Simon Troup wrote: I don't think so. I have had this current address for 5 months and have never gotten ANY spam on it (yet . . .), and I subscribed this address to 7 listservs. Phil, did you get an email with the subject ... Music for Learning Music for Teaching Music for Playing ... that's the one I'm talking about? Nope. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
At 4/26/2005 01:32 PM, Simon Troup wrote: I don't think so. I have had this current address for 5 months and have never gotten ANY spam on it (yet . . .), and I subscribed this address to 7 listservs. Phil, did you get an email with the subject ... Music for Learning Music for Teaching Music for Playing ... that's the one I'm talking about? Nope. And I have no junk filtering on this address. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
if it's what you gotta do, you gotta do it. however, i would ask you to please contact makemusic and let them know you are on the verge of abandoning finale, and ask them if the speed issue (and other concerns of yours) are being dealt with, or if they have plans to deal with it. it seems to me that yours are more than idle threats, they might actually take it seriously, who knows, they might actually be dealing with the issue already. if everyone who has or is ready to abandon finale contacted makemusic to let them know why they left instead of just disappearing, MM might have a more complete idea of how their products are appreciated in the general market. it might even serve to influence them. i would hope that the prospect of losing such long-term supporters as yourself would not be taken too lightly by makemusic. [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] jef -- Subject: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X? To: finale@shsu.edu Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, [...] -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
On Apr 26, 2005, at 12:39 PM, ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. Sibelius: speed, OK; user friendliness, fine at the beginning, but rising frustration as you learn more about the advanced things that it won't do easily. If you are already an expert Finale user, by all means stick with it! Sibelius' main advantage is ease for new users. Also, Fin 2005 for Mac OSX is pretty good, as good as the PC version. It's quicker than 2004, it is quite stable (though that might be more to do with OSX than Finale), and the OSX version allows you create PDF's from the print dialogue, without any 3rd-party utilities. And quite a few bugs have been squashed. You just manage to hear all about them in detail here, which is scarier than actually experiencing them. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I have no idea when the duplicates showed up, because they are exact copies of the original, superimposed perfectly. There is no way to even tell they're there except by clicking on them individually and dragging, to see if they leave their clone behind. Frankly, I'm stumped. Hmm, so am I. Are you CERTAIN that they are actually there? That is, are they still there after a cmd-D screen redraw? I sometimes get ghosts of things I have moved until I redraw. They look quite real, too. When you open an old file, try checking right away to see if they are there. You could try checking in 2004 as well, to see if they are there. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] My Long Post on Clip Files Combining Movements
David, Fin2003 can't easily do what you want to do. I would recommend either upgrading to Fin2005 (where the new copying features may actually *help* you), or using Robert Patterson's Mass Copy plugin, which makes combining multiple files much easier. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 1:49 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Did this post go through? If so, can anyone tell me why they have nothing to say in response? Am I the only person on the list trying to combine files using clip file copying? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] My Long Post on Clip Files Combining Movements
Did this post go through? If so, can anyone tell me why they have nothing to say in response? Am I the only person on the list trying to combine files using clip file copying? Yeah it got through. Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. My new G5 dual 2Ghz makes Finale feel like it's on OS9 again. Furthermore, the improvements over versions like Fin98 or Fin2001 mean I'm far more productive then I ever was on those versions. I tried Sibelius and sold it on ebay 6 months later. Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
Nope. I didn't get that one, and it's not in my junk folder (no filtering on the ISP other than marking messages) I didn't get that either, but I have my email set to trust junk mail headers set by my ISP, so perhaps that's it. Ah. OK, sorry everyone, false alarm. Someone else must have sold me out! Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:07:31 +0200, Bernard Nussbaumer wrote: 2005/4/26, Simon Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Did anyone else get a mail from the Maestoso mailing list? I got one through to an email address associated only with this list, I'm thinking they culled email addresses from here as I don't remember signing up to any list of theirs. Yes. Exactly the same for me; I use this address only since March... Maestoso is run by list member Givanni Andreani. He's only recently been in operation, and he even acknowledges the help he has received from various members of this list: http://www.maestoso.it/index.cfm?fuseaction=schedanewsID=6 I've corresponded with him a bit, and if you'd like to stop receiving mail from him I'm sure a quick email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] will be graciously received and you will be quickly removed from his list. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:04 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I have no idea when the duplicates showed up, because they are exact copies of the original, superimposed perfectly. There is no way to even tell they're there except by clicking on them individually and dragging, to see if they leave their clone behind. Frankly, I'm stumped. Hmm, so am I. Are you CERTAIN that they are actually there? That is, are they still there after a cmd-D screen redraw? Oh yes. They have their own handles, and I can move them independently. If I offset them from the original, they print. (Well, they print even without offsetting them, it's just that the two hairpins print exactly on top of each other. They are definitely a second set of hairpins, and they're all over the place. Not just this one score, by the way. I haven't checked, but I think many of my old documents have spawned duplicate hairpins. It's just that most of the time, I don't notice, since I almost never move hairpins by clicking and dragging. When you open an old file, try checking right away to see if they are there. You could try checking in 2004 as well, to see if they are there. I don't have the original Fin2k4 draft score -- I deleted it after I started working on it in 2k5 (probably not the wisest move, I admit). - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
I agree with Robert that you are asking the wrong list, however, why don't you just see for yourself? Go download the Fin2k5 demo and check whether it is too slow for your needs. Once you find problematic areas in 2k5, you may want to ask MakeMusic whether they can give you any information on what is going to be addressed in 2k6. They may not tell you anything, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Keep in mind that 2k6 is likely to arrive some time in late summer. Personally I don't find 2k5 too slow, if that's your only concern. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] My Long Post on Clip Files Combining Movements
I hate to point out the obvious, but perhaps an email to Mr. Patterson is in order? The new copying behavior introduced in Fin2k5 has unintended consequences for copying within the *same* document, or for copying into a template where you *don't* want the measure expressions to carry over from the clip file (or clipboard), but it actually works quite well for its intended purpose, which is making it easier to combine multiple Finale files into a single file. I had to combine eleven individual movements, each a separate file, into one master score back in Fin2k4, and there's just no way I would have been able to do that in any reasonable period of time without Mass Copy. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:23 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Apr 2005 at 14:11, Darcy James Argue wrote: Fin2003 can't easily do what you want to do. Well, that's just not going to happen for two reasons: 1. I can't afford it right now. 2. I'm not upgrading as protest of the lack of key escrow for the authorization. Also, haven't you all been nattering on today about all the problems with new copying behavior in 05? That sounds much worse than what I've had to deal with. I would recommend either upgrading to Fin2005 (where the new copying features may actually *help* you), or using Robert Patterson's Mass Copy plugin, which makes combining multiple files much easier. Well, I loaded the test version of this a while back, but it's expired, so I can't tell if it resolves my problems. I don't see any way to uninstall the old trial version (which I never got around to trying out) so that I can try the current version. I'm not about to spend money on it if I can't test it! But I'm much more willing to spend it on a plugin than on the upgrade. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
Darcy, Just to let you know that you are not alone in observing this behavior, only I haven't been careful enough to notice exactly when it happens. I do remember that it often occurs in updated files, and that the duplicates are sometimes multiple. This kind of thing may well be linked to the new copy and paste behavior. I include myself in the list of those who find it (the new copy and paste behavior) unfathomable and annoying. Chuck On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:04 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I have no idea when the duplicates showed up, because they are exact copies of the original, superimposed perfectly. There is no way to even tell they're there except by clicking on them individually and dragging, to see if they leave their clone behind. Frankly, I'm stumped. Hmm, so am I. Are you CERTAIN that they are actually there? That is, are they still there after a cmd-D screen redraw? Oh yes. They have their own handles, and I can move them independently. If I offset them from the original, they print. (Well, they print even without offsetting them, it's just that the two hairpins print exactly on top of each other. They are definitely a second set of hairpins, and they're all over the place. Not just this one score, by the way. I haven't checked, but I think many of my old documents have spawned duplicate hairpins. It's just that most of the time, I don't notice, since I almost never move hairpins by clicking and dragging. When you open an old file, try checking right away to see if they are there. You could try checking in 2004 as well, to see if they are there. I don't have the original Fin2k4 draft score -- I deleted it after I started working on it in 2k5 (probably not the wisest move, I admit). - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
Eric, You've been through the worst of Finale, in terms of bugs. You've mastered a very difficult program, that will do almost anything you want. Why change now, just for a little speed? I'm using FinMac 2005 on an ancient G4/400, and it's okay. It works better than the old versions, and on a new processor, I'm sure it will be fast. The price for an upgrade should be cheaper than Sibelius, even with an educators discount, I think. JS On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:39 AM, ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Eric ERIC RICHARDS Composer / Arranger Trombone / MIDI 310 W 21st Ave Fremont NE 68025-2525 http://net.mlc.edu/music/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
Actually, FWIW, Sibelius has a very competitive upgrade for Finale users ($99) that is less than the cost of a Finale version upgrade (at least, without the early bird discount). Finale's cross-upgrade for Sibelius users is $199. I'm no marketing genius, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to make your cross-upgrade twice as expensive as your competitor's. I think they should let Sibelius users trade up to Finale for the same price as Finale users pay to upgrade to the latest version. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:50 PM, Joel Sears wrote: Eric, You've been through the worst of Finale, in terms of bugs. You've mastered a very difficult program, that will do almost anything you want. Why change now, just for a little speed? I'm using FinMac 2005 on an ancient G4/400, and it's okay. It works better than the old versions, and on a new processor, I'm sure it will be fast. The price for an upgrade should be cheaper than Sibelius, even with an educators discount, I think. JS On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:39 AM, ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Eric ERIC RICHARDS Composer / Arranger Trombone / MIDI 310 W 21st Ave Fremont NE 68025-2525 http://net.mlc.edu/music/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
Oh, wait -- I was mistaken. The cross-upgrade for Sibelius 3 is $199, same as Finale's. I was sure it used to be $99, but I guess I could be misremembering. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 3:11 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Actually, FWIW, Sibelius has a very competitive upgrade for Finale users ($99) that is less than the cost of a Finale version upgrade (at least, without the early bird discount). Finale's cross-upgrade for Sibelius users is $199. I'm no marketing genius, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to make your cross-upgrade twice as expensive as your competitor's. I think they should let Sibelius users trade up to Finale for the same price as Finale users pay to upgrade to the latest version. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:50 PM, Joel Sears wrote: Eric, You've been through the worst of Finale, in terms of bugs. You've mastered a very difficult program, that will do almost anything you want. Why change now, just for a little speed? I'm using FinMac 2005 on an ancient G4/400, and it's okay. It works better than the old versions, and on a new processor, I'm sure it will be fast. The price for an upgrade should be cheaper than Sibelius, even with an educators discount, I think. JS On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:39 AM, ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Eric ERIC RICHARDS Composer / Arranger Trombone / MIDI 310 W 21st Ave Fremont NE 68025-2525 http://net.mlc.edu/music/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
I jut upgraded from 2003 to 2005 and the upgrade on the site said $199 but when I got to CHECKOUT it was $99. I believe the total was about 114 with tax and everything. Richard ---Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:13 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X? Oh, wait -- I was mistaken. The cross-upgrade for Sibelius 3 is $199, same as Finale's. I was sure it used to be $99, but I guess I could be misremembering. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 3:11 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Actually, FWIW, Sibelius has a very competitive upgrade for Finale users ($99) that is less than the cost of a Finale version upgrade (at least, without the early bird discount). Finale's cross-upgrade for Sibelius users is $199. I'm no marketing genius, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to make your cross-upgrade twice as expensive as your competitor's. I think they should let Sibelius users trade up to Finale for the same price as Finale users pay to upgrade to the latest version. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:50 PM, Joel Sears wrote: Eric, You've been through the worst of Finale, in terms of bugs. You've mastered a very difficult program, that will do almost anything you want. Why change now, just for a little speed? I'm using FinMac 2005 on an ancient G4/400, and it's okay. It works better than the old versions, and on a new processor, I'm sure it will be fast. The price for an upgrade should be cheaper than Sibelius, even with an educators discount, I think. JS On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:39 AM, ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Eric ERIC RICHARDS Composer / Arranger Trombone / MIDI 310 W 21st Ave Fremont NE 68025-2525 http://net.mlc.edu/music/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notating Suspendeds
In pop music, Gsus2 (i.e., G A D) is a very common chord, especially for keyboard players. G A C D is used _much_ less frequently, and requires a different chord symbol -- usually Gsus (add2). Sorry to be dense, but where is the suspended resolution in such chord as Gsus2? ?? A to be of course? What do you mean Hiro? Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8
At 5:10 PM + 4/26/05, Robert Patterson wrote: Beam to time signature, using a composite time signature of 2+2+3 8ths. When I did that, it screwed up all the rhythms... making every measure too long, with notes bumped into ... on, no matter. It didn't work. This is a file I imported from (ugh) Encore, so maybe that's the problem. I'm using Mac, OSX, finale 2004. Linda___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8
It sounds to me as if you tried to actually change the time signature. Beam to Time Signature is a Mass Edit function. -Original Message- From: Linda Worsley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 07:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8 At 5:10 PM + 4/26/05, Robert Patterson wrote: Beam to time signature, using a composite time signature of 2+2+3 8ths. When I did that, it screwed up all the rhythms... making every measure too long, with notes bumped into ... on, no matter. It didn't work. This is a file I imported from (ugh) Encore, so maybe that's the problem. I'm using Mac, OSX, finale 2004. Linda___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
Speed isn't everything. If you are getting a new system, things will run fast regardless of a program running on Windows or Mac. I use Finale on both. I'd say the Mac setup gives me less headaches. And OS X's interface somehow makes Finale more enjoyable to use. I guess it comes down to how good you are with Finale. Do you know how to get output out of the program that you like? Every version has become better I think. Things like tuplets, spacing, etc etc. Do you want to really learn Sibelius? It has it's fair share of issues as well. Could Sibelius open all those old finale files correctly? I still come across stuff I did in college in the 90s that Finale 2005 opens fine. I've never tried them with Sibelius yet. I'm scared. I'd stick to what you know. Finale. Get a beefy machine. A mac ;-). iMac G5, or dual G5. Lots of Ram (at least a gig), and OS X 10.4 when it comes out. On Apr 26, 2005, at 11:39 AM, ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. I use my system primarily for composing/arranging and music preparation for projects to be performed/recorded by acoustic ensembles. e.g.: -Large Jazz Ensemble -Wind ensemble/Concert Band -Orchestra -Various smaller media. Also, I like to be able to create mock-ups of the projects when needed. In the next month or so, I need to purchase a major system upgrade for my studio and home this summer (yeah...I know...it's a rough problem to have... :). With all of the buzz in the Finale Digest and elsewhere about how much slower the carbonized OS X incarnations of Finale run than the pre-OS X versions, I refuse to lay out major cash for the privilege of working SLOWER...not to mention the new slew of post OS X Finale bugs I've been hearing about. On the other hand, I've heard generally very good things about Sibelius 3.1/OS X in terms of speed and user friendliness. I will be purchasing some combination of a new laptop and desktops for myself and my family. All new Mac systems are OS X dependent. Thus, I assume my two possible upgrade paths are: 1.) Make the move to OS X and switch to Sib 3.1 OS X for my projects. This will allow us to take advantage of the latest advances in Mac processor speed and OS features. If I want to have the option of returning to Finale in the future, I suppose I can hope at some point MakeMusic will get Finale's act together and release a version that works smoothly and quickly within OS X. 2.) Consider switching to the Dark Side (i.e. Windows...just kidding, I don't intend to start a religious OS war here :), then I can consider both Sib and Finale. I believe the current versions of Finale (04, 05) run much more robustly in Windows XP than Mac OS X? FYI, I'm not interested in purchasing older refurbished Mac systems that will run OS 9.2.2 So...(assuming you've hung in there this long), whay say ye? Any constructive advice or input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Eric ERIC RICHARDS Composer / Arranger Trombone / MIDI 310 W 21st Ave Fremont NE 68025-2525 http://net.mlc.edu/music/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] My Long Post on Clip Files Combining Movements
On 26 Apr 2005 at 14:40, Darcy James Argue wrote: I hate to point out the obvious, but perhaps an email to Mr. Patterson is in order? He very graciously responded to my post with a key to re-activate the trial period. The new copying behavior introduced in Fin2k5 has unintended consequences for copying within the *same* document, or for copying into a template where you *don't* want the measure expressions to carry over from the clip file (or clipboard), but it actually works quite well for its intended purpose, which is making it easier to combine multiple Finale files into a single file. Well, I think there is actually a case where measure expressions *do* copy with clip files, and that's if you INSERT instead of REPLACE. I say this because when I created the violin part, all the tempo markings (one per movement) were brought into the part. That means that the tempo mark for the second and third movements, which were both measure expressions, were copied in the clip file. However, when I did the viola and cello parts, I kept all the measures (in order to retain the layout) and just cleared their content, so in that case, I REPLACED the content, and in that case, the measure expressions *did not* copy. Fortunately, I had only the two, so I just re-inserted them by hand. The clefs problem is vastly more severe for me, since I hardly ever use measure expressions, in any case. I had to combine eleven individual movements, each a separate file, into one master score back in Fin2k4, and there's just no way I would have been able to do that in any reasonable period of time without Mass Copy. Well, I'll now try it out and see how much it helps. I'm not sure if getting the clef changes right is sufficient to justify the $60 expense for me if all the other little gotchas don't also work out. But I'll give it a chance first before I decide. And, thank goodness I was annoying enough to repost! Otherwise, I'd never have gotten any of these good answers! Did I just post at the wrong time of day or something? Or was my post too long, with no obvious question? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] My Long Post on Clip Files Combining Movements
Hi David, Well, I think there is actually a case where measure expressions *do* copy with clip files, and that's if you INSERT instead of REPLACE. Yes, but the staff lists are not preserved. Measure expressions assigned to a single staff, or staff list, show up on every single staff after insertion into the new file. That's the behavior the new copying behavior in Fin2k5 was designed to correct, although evidently this much-needed fix caused a lot of unintended consequences. Well, I'll now try it out and see how much it helps. I'm not sure if getting the clef changes right is sufficient to justify the $60 expense for me if all the other little gotchas don't also work out. But I'll give it a chance first before I decide. Well, for $60 you get a lot more than just Mass Copy! I'd gladly pay $60 for Patterson Beams alone. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. One thing to keep in mind in making the switch to Sibelius that I do not see that others have mentioned is the control you give up over your data. When I considered switching seriously a couple of months ago, I decided against it, mainly because with Finale you have the option of saving your files in a format that is readable by other systems. That is, if you save as ~.ETF files, the details of the ~.ETF format are public, so that it is possible to your ~.ETF files with Sibelius, or Lilypond, and perhaps others. Sibelius has no similar capability, that is, it neither writes files in ~.ETF format, nor any other format with a publicly published data file format. And since the data file format is a proprietary trade secret, you may not legally, in the U.S., anyway, reverse engineer the data file format so you can extract the data yourself, should Sibelius fail, or decide to start charging a license fee for the file formats. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso Spam?
I received the Maestoso mailing. Dalvin Boone ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
ER @ HOME wrote: Hello, I'm soliciting advice and input regarding making the BIG Switch from FinMAC 2002/'03 to Sibelius 3.1 (OS X). I'm an expert user of Finale (up and running since the infamous US$1000.00 version 1.0) and am able to work very quickly and efficiently in FinMAC 2002/Mac OS 9.2.2. It occurs to me, too, that Sibelius, in order to obtain the competitive upgrade requires you to send them your MakeMusic! distribution disk. However, I've never had to do this with MakeMusic!. Under these circumstances, I believe that I would upgrade to the new Finale, and use an old distribution disk (2k3 or 2k4) to obtain the upgrade to Sibelius, and work with both of them for a while. I'd probably wait to do both upgrades when the new Finale upgrade comes out, if you install the system now, unless Finale is the only thing you're going to be using it for. Finally, across my membership in several different music related lists, I've seen five or six different people who have posted I switched from Finale to Sibelius, but I just didn't like it, so I've switched back Since this does not count the post from Simon earlier in this thread, I guess I should say, six or seven. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8
At 5:10 PM + 4/26/05, Robert Patterson wrote: Beam to time signature, using a composite time signature of 2+2+3 8ths. When I did that, it screwed up all the rhythms... making every measure too long, with notes bumped into ... on, no matter. It didn't work. Linda, the 2+2+3 should all be in one box, not spread over 3 boxes. John ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
Ladies and gentlemen: Please change the subject line of this message string before you send out a response! The anti-spam function on my ISP blocks any message with Spam in the subject line. Some programs (Norton Anti-Spam, for example) add a spamers address to the users blocked senders list. I have had to manually remove almost a dozen of you from my blocked list because the subject line caused your messages to immediately be channeled into my Spam folder AND your addresses blocked. TIA Guy Hayden ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Font for half dim.
Hi Darcy- a change of subject!- please advise where you found the font for slashed circle (half dim). Cheers Keith in OZ Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 10:26 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] It _is_ TOMATO! (was: C13) On 26 Apr 2005, at 2:36 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Gsus2 was a full of surprised to me, so I called a couple studio musician friends in NYC. Darcy was of course right. They are very familiar with sus2 chord, but they also told me it's a CODE for convenience Isn't that what I said? Besides, all chord symbols are codes for convenience. That's the whole point of using them. only common in NYC Probably LA too. Also very common in publishing, although Chris is right that it's sometimes mis-used. (I might argue in response that there's a lot of sloppy pop publishing out there, and virtually all chord symbols are mis-used at one point or another. But it is used correctly and consistently in publications where the editor wasn't MIA.) and they also told me the chord's real name is G2(add5). I was glad to hear they don't insists on 'sus'! Well, I *did* suggest G5 (add 2) as an alternative to Gsus2, which I think is a little clearer than G2 (add5) because it's based on a standard chord symbol (G5), but the result is the same. As for the chord's real name, I have to admit I really don't care about such issues. IMO, the real name is the symbol that's actually on the part. If all the parts say Gsus2 than that's the real name, regardless of what the player might or might not be thinking. If you play in a scene where G2 (add 5) or whatever is used instead of Gsus2, then *that* is the real name for the chord in that musical community. Disputes about whether, for example, C Eb Gb Bb is really C minor seven flat five or C half diminished are, IMO, pointless. Since virtually everyone now understands both terms for the chord, I'm only interested in the most economical way of conveying to the player which notes are in the chord (i.e., Cø). You can tell me it isn't really half-diminished all day long, but it doesn't make the slightest difference to me so long as the player reads the symbol I wrote and plays the notes I want. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
Please change the subject line of this message string before you send out a response! Sorry about that. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue now. I know several participating members post harmless self promotional messages from time to time, such as gigs they're doing or pieces that are premiering. No problem with that it just adds colour to the names. This one was a bit different, as Brad pointed out, but I'm still not sure it was the place to post non the less. Doesn't explain why not everyone got the message though. Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Font for half dim.
Keith, Every standard text font includes the ø character. On Mac, you type it with cmd-o. On PC, it will be one of those hideous alt- characters -- I'm sure the PC users on the list can tell you which one. However, since you asked, while it's not necessary to use a custom font to get the ø character, I do in fact use a custom chord font -- Bill Duncan's ChordSuf, which I highly recommend: http://www.gwmp.com/MusicFontsFrameset.htm - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 5:10 PM, keith helgesen wrote: Hi Darcy- a change of subject!- please advise where you found the font for slashed circle (half dim). Cheers Keith in OZ Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Font for half dim.
On 26 Apr 2005, at 5:21 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On Mac, you type it with cmd-o. D'oh! I meant opt-o. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
On Apr 26, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Guy Hayden wrote: Ladies and gentlemen: Please change the subject line of this message string before you send out a response! The anti-spam function on my ISP blocks any message with Spam in the subject line. That seems like an odd criteria. Why would REAL spammers label their stuff clearly in the subject line? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
That is not one of the criteria. The way it works is that when a message arrives that seems like spam, the both software programs add Spam to the subject line and send the message to a separate folder where I can review it before deleting it. It is this addition of Spam that causes it to be filed in the spam folder. When a message comes in, no matter from where, containing the word SPAM it is sent to the spam folder. If you don't care whether your message gets through then include Spam in the subject line. My point (by which I stand) is that it takes a lot of time to manually move people from the blocked list to the allowed list. Once you are on a blocked list all of your messages are treated as spam. This can be avoided by NOT including SPAM in the subject line. Guy Hayden - Original Message - From: Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can That seems like an odd criteria. Why would REAL spammers label their stuff clearly in the subject line? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
Well, Guy, I'm sorry, but I gotta say, Norton's system *does* sound kinda... well... dim. (Now, please, no harrumphing -- no personal offense is intended -- heck, *you* didn't design it.) But I mean, what would happen, say, if I wrote you an email saying I'd somehow managed to finagle us tickets to the hottest musical on Broadway, and wrote you all excited to tell you the great news... but also happened to mention the show's title in the email subject heading? Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 6:32 PM, Guy Hayden wrote: Well, I am sorry that I ever mentioned it! It is not necessary to flame me because my ISP (Cox Cable) AND Symantec (creators of Norton Anit-Spam) choose to label suspected SPAM as SPAM. You may not like Norton but for many years I have found their products to be reliable and generally user friendly. But then I am just an end-user with little computer savy. If you want to send out messages that say SPAM in the subject line then go ahead! I will just allow my software(s) to put you in the SPAM folder and not worry about moving you FROM the BLOCKED list to the ALLOWED list. Unsophisticated indeed! Harrumph! Guy Hayden - Original Message - From: Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Finale finale@shsu.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:16:58 +0100 Simon Troup wrote: Please change the subject line of this message string before you send out a response! Sorry about that. There's no need to apologize. A spam filter that automatically labels messages with Spam in the subject as such is the most utterly unsophisticated filter of which I've ever heard. Guy, I heartily recommend that you find a new filtering mechanism. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
It is not necessary to flame me because [...] Lol. There wan't any flaming. Usually spam programs make the spam prefix something like [Spam] rather than just the word Spam - that just bans anyone from talking about spam when [Spam] wouldn't. Now don't take it as a personal afront, but just spam simply isn't very sophisticated. I know in spam assassin and others you can change the prefix, maybe you can do that as spam does get mentioned on the list from time to time. No flame intended whatsoever. Simon Troup ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
On 4/26/05, Guy Hayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I am sorry that I ever mentioned it! [snip] If you want to send out messages that say SPAM in the subject line then go ahead! I will just allow my software(s) to put you in the SPAM folder and not worry about moving you FROM the BLOCKED list to the ALLOWED list. Unsophisticated indeed! Harrumph! Guy, I apologize if my message came across as a flame. I was in no way attempting to demean you or your software of choice. I was merely recommending that you look into alternative methods of spam blocking. I looked back on my message, and I realize that I was unjustifiably severe. However, you must realize that actual unsolicited email will not often go about with a herald trumpet proclaiming its status in the subject line. Relatively often, this list discusses the state of spam filters, and if the word happens to creep into the subject line of an email it will not be without precedent (as demonstrated today). Again, I apologize if I came off as overly judgmental. The email was written hastily, and any perceived attacks were not intended. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
really, you know, I wouldn't mind seeing a show about spiced meat and knights of the round table. and my filters certainly dont filter on a single word. Although, Ive found that any message that comes with an urgency other than normal is typically one I do not want to read. So I filer on that criteria. Am 26.04.2005 um 15:46 schrieb Darcy James Argue: Well, Guy, I'm sorry, but I gotta say, Norton's system *does* sound kinda... well... dim. (Now, please, no harrumphing -- no personal offense is intended -- heck, *you* didn't design it.) But I mean, what would happen, say, if I wrote you an email saying I'd somehow managed to finagle us tickets to the hottest musical on Broadway, and wrote you all excited to tell you the great news... but also happened to mention the show's title in the email subject heading? Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 6:32 PM, Guy Hayden wrote: Well, I am sorry that I ever mentioned it! It is not necessary to flame me because my ISP (Cox Cable) AND Symantec (creators of Norton Anit-Spam) choose to label suspected SPAM as SPAM. You may not like Norton but for many years I have found their products to be reliable and generally user friendly. But then I am just an end-user with little computer savy. If you want to send out messages that say SPAM in the subject line then go ahead! I will just allow my software(s) to put you in the SPAM folder and not worry about moving you FROM the BLOCKED list to the ALLOWED list. Unsophisticated indeed! Harrumph! Guy Hayden - Original Message - From: Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Finale finale@shsu.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:16:58 +0100 Simon Troup wrote: Please change the subject line of this message string before you send out a response! Sorry about that. There's no need to apologize. A spam filter that automatically labels messages with Spam in the subject as such is the most utterly unsophisticated filter of which I've ever heard. Guy, I heartily recommend that you find a new filtering mechanism. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] PDF print problems
George Ports / 05.4.26 / 09:57 AM wrote: When I save as to a PDF file, the printout shows lines around a graphic here and there. I am slowly catching up the traffic so forgive me if this has mentioned. All the legacy files I created have this exactly the same problem. I don't remember what version of FInale changed this behavior, but Shape tools used to force you to create a bogus box in certain situations such as when you create an empty block to hide something. It was fine then even with Postscript printout, but later it became a problem as you described. Any chance these files you are having trouble with are created originally with older Finale version? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can
Stop it! Stop that singing now! What would happen is that your message would go into my SPAM folder where I would see it and move you back into the allowed list. I just tested this. Normally this is not an issue because I only have to move a single user. However, as I said in my original response, I was obliged today to move almost a dozen users from the blocked list to the allowed list. I was only asking that anyone who was planning on responding to the #$*(^% message NOT use the word SPAM because all such messages would go into the SPAM folder, thereby necessitating moving you, a process that is time consuming. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. (/me strikes chest three times)! I was only thinking of myself and the possibility of needing to move additional dozens of valued correspondents off my blocked list all because my inadequate, dim and unsophisticated software was going to put you there if you responded with the word SPAM in the message subject. Now for something completely ridiculous... What is the date of our tickets? I may need to take a vacation day from church. For this I need plenty of lead time because qualified subs are hard to find. Why is this beginning to sound like the Dead Parrot sketch? Guy Hayden - Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Maestoso spiced meat in a can Well, Guy, I'm sorry, but I gotta say, Norton's system *does* sound kinda... well... dim. (Now, please, no harrumphing -- no personal offense is intended -- heck, *you* didn't design it.) But I mean, what would happen, say, if I wrote you an email saying I'd somehow managed to finagle us tickets to the hottest musical on Broadway, and wrote you all excited to tell you the great news... but also happened to mention the show's title in the email subject heading? Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
I think smart shapes duplicate when you repeatedly drag/drop a bar with Copy Everything turned on. Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Apr 2005, at 10:44 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:38 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: and also measure-attached Smart Shapes like hairpins and Even 8ths custom lines, The only items I've seen duplicated are hairpins. Other measure-attached smart shapes, like trill extension lines, 8va lines, etc., aren't cloned -- at least, not in this file. Correction: I found some trill extension lines that were cloned, as well. Again, not sure what could be causing this. Copying with only Measure Items: Smart Shapes (Attached To Measures) _always_ deletes existing smart shapes when pasting. I suppose this must have something to do with Fin2k5* copy everything weirdness, but since I can't actually _replicate_ the behavior, I suspect my appeals to tech support will fall on deaf ears. If I somehow manage to catch these hairpins in the act of being duplicated, I'll let y'all know. - Darcy * Wait, doesn't Fin2k5 actually mean Fin20005? Just wondering. - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
Hi Robert, As I said in a previous message, I rarely use Copy Everything, and I have duplicate hairpins even on staves that have never been copied to/from other staves. Or are you saying that hairpins in *all* staves are duplicated when you Copy Everything vertically? Hmm... I'll have to try that. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 7:36 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I think smart shapes duplicate when you repeatedly drag/drop a bar with Copy Everything turned on. Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Apr 2005, at 10:44 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:38 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: and also measure-attached Smart Shapes like hairpins and Even 8ths custom lines, The only items I've seen duplicated are hairpins. Other measure-attached smart shapes, like trill extension lines, 8va lines, etc., aren't cloned -- at least, not in this file. Correction: I found some trill extension lines that were cloned, as well. Again, not sure what could be causing this. Copying with only Measure Items: Smart Shapes (Attached To Measures) _always_ deletes existing smart shapes when pasting. I suppose this must have something to do with Fin2k5* copy everything weirdness, but since I can't actually _replicate_ the behavior, I suspect my appeals to tech support will fall on deaf ears. If I somehow manage to catch these hairpins in the act of being duplicated, I'll let y'all know. - Darcy * Wait, doesn't Fin2k5 actually mean Fin20005? Just wondering. - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
On 26 Apr 2005, at 7:39 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Or are you saying that hairpins in *all* staves are duplicated when you Copy Everything vertically? Hmm... I'll have to try that. Nope, I tried that in Fin2005b -- that's not it. Hairpins in other staves are unaffected. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8
Gosh, how stupid am I. I did a score about a year ago in which I went through a complicated system of entering massive amounts (i.e., every measure) of different time signatures 7/8, 9/8, 13/8, 5/8 and then went through and manually adjusted all of the beams to be correct. Ah well. I guess I had the time, and not enough inclination to learn the better way. Am 26.04.2005 um 10:02 schrieb Rick Neal: Hi Linda, 1. From the time sig dialog click Composite 2. Enter 2+2+3 in beat groups 3. Enter 8 in beat duration If you want 7/8 to display instead of 2+2+3/8 then continue with #4 (otherwise click OK): 4. Click Options 5. Check use a different time signature for display 6. Change to 7/8 7. Click OK I don't know what version or system you are on, but this should be very close. Good luck, Rick Neal -Original Message- From: Linda Worsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Apr 26, 2005 11:51 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] grouping notes in 7/8 Help, I don't know how to fix this: A student has given me a Finale file of a piece in 7/8. Lots of eighth notes, all flagged, even though the pattern is pretty consistently 2/2/3. Is there a way to beam the groups instead of all those spidery flags all ovr the page. 16ths and above are beamed, naturally, but oy, all those eighths. Help, and thanks in advance. Linda ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Rick Neal Teacher, Composer, Bassist, Guitarist [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~rickmidi ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Another Notation Question!
Boy, it looks like I really stirred things up with my question about suspended chords, etc.!! Hope this one is more straightforward! I was wondering which is the proper way to notate syncopated rhythms for vocals... Whether, for example, it's better to use all 16th's and tie the syncopated notes together - or to use 16th's followed by off-the-beat 8th's...? I've taken a snapshot which shows the 2 ways I'm referring to - Staff 1, measure 1 is showing method 2 - Staff 2 is showing method 1... Which would be correct for vocals? And would you notate a piano (or any other instrumental) part differently? I've uploaded the snapshot to my web site at: http://www.ourlittleplace.com/snapshot.jpg Thanks! Jacki ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Duplicate hairpins
I also find that these duplicate hairpins mysteriously appear. They are exact duplicates, perfectly superimposed. I usually discover them when I delete or adjust a hairpin. I also find duplicate slurs. I have no idea when they appear since I only discover them after the fact. But they are absolutely there. I think I started noticing this two versions ago, but I cannot swear to that. Michael Matthews From: Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: April 26, 2005 1:04:22 PM GMT-05:00 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I have no idea when the duplicates showed up, because they are exact copies of the original, superimposed perfectly. There is no way to even tell they're there except by clicking on them individually and dragging, to see if they leave their clone behind. Frankly, I'm stumped. Hmm, so am I. Are you CERTAIN that they are actually there? That is, are they still there after a cmd-D screen redraw? I sometimes get ghosts of things I have moved until I redraw. They look quite real, too. When you open an old file, try checking right away to see if they are there. You could try checking in 2004 as well, to see if they are there. Christopher___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another Notation Question!
Jacki, I hate to the bearer of bad news, but both examples in your snapshot are wrong. Staff 2 is closer to being correct, but the pairs of tied sixteenths beginning on beats 3.25 of m.1 and beats 2.25 and 3.25 should be written as eighths. The tied eighth-sixteen pair on beat 3.25, m.1 should be a dotted eighth. When eighth notes fall entirely *within* a beat and do not cross the beat line, they should not be written as tied notes. However, Staff 1 is dead wrong. When a measure contains sixteenth notes, you *must* show every beat. You can't have eighth notes that cross beat boundaries, e.g., beat 2.75. *Those* eighths must be written as tied pairs. These rules apply for both voice and piano. (Old-fashioned practice for voice is different, but today vocal music is beamed the same as instrumental music.) For more information on these and similar notation issues, I highly recommend Steve Powell's _Music Notation Today_ or Gardner Read's _Music Notation_, both available here: http://www.npcimaging.com/ - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Apr 2005, at 9:55 PM, Jacki Barineau wrote: Boy, it looks like I really stirred things up with my question about suspended chords, etc.!! Hope this one is more straightforward! I was wondering which is the proper way to notate syncopated rhythms for vocals... Whether, for example, it's better to use all 16th's and tie the syncopated notes together - or to use 16th's followed by off-the-beat 8th's...? I've taken a snapshot which shows the 2 ways I'm referring to - Staff 1, measure 1 is showing method 2 - Staff 2 is showing method 1... Which would be correct for vocals? And would you notate a piano (or any other instrumental) part differently? I've uploaded the snapshot to my web site at: http://www.ourlittleplace.com/snapshot.jpg Thanks! Jacki ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another Notation Question!
On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Jacki, I hate to the bearer of bad news, But on the other hand, there IS some good news. Darcy and I agree on a point of notation! Aren't you happy? 8-)=) (BIG cookie-eating grin) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
