RE: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
I wasn't referring to the deletion of the site. I was talking about the possible unauthorized access of the ftp site. Thanks for the link. I will be sure to keep ahold of that incase I get into a similar problem. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Hotchkiss Sent: 08 December 2008 18:58 To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. Eamons point about the computer misuse act is not strictly true - you own the site unless a contract exists explicitly licensing full ownership of everything up payment completion. My advise however is to leave the site up and get Thomas Higgins on the case. He's BRILLIANT and has a ni on 100% record for recovering debts. He's completely ruthless and gets results http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/ Trust me - use these guys and you'll have you money before the month is out -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Piers Cowburn Sent: 08 December 2008 11:51 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
the thing about going through a specialised debt collecting solicitor is that they start very polite - they usually have 2 rounds of letters to send to the client before they start getting heavy and to be honest, if it comes to that, you're better off without the client a bad client will be more trouble than the work is worth, even in troubled times. They will abuse your relationship, demand unreasonable amounts of unpaid extra work and monopolise your time so that you start to neglect your good-paying clients and probably start to ask for long-time client discounts (like you owe them something for giving you the work). Saying that you might lose possible future work would sound like a blessing with a client like that i have had a client like this and if i'd known about the debt collectors, i'd have phoned them in a shot. a On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Helmut Granda [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: But having the power to access to the server through FTP doesnt make the coder a good guy either :) On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 4:51 PM, laurent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having no contract does not make the none payer a good guy, he apparently does not want to pay. And if he have problems I guess the coder have too, so he should deal with his own stuff as we do here and if he can't he should commnicate about it. But I don't think the problem is here. The best thing is to call a lawyer that will get in contact with him, you won't even have to get to court, the guy will pay straight away. As far as he can't handle dirty hands I guess...but you will win. L Helmut Granda a écrit : Im with Doctor H here, We don't know the details or both parties information about the project, if you are a freelancer/contractor this might harm you in the long run. Granted, you might get the money you are owed but in the end of the day it might be 1+ (many more) possible non clients. Remember that the bad press travels a lot faster than good rep and good rep is always hard to come by. If I read correctly you don't have a written contract which in the end is also a bad practice and you have to take your losses. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:13 PM, dr.ache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever thought about what that makes for your image? I would encourage you to stay polite and willing to accept their delay as long as it is possible for you. You can deny to work with this client in the future anyways but do not threaten somebody with court or anything before there is no other way around. Have always in mind that there can be a reason you could not even imagine behind that delay. You are dealing with people - just try to image this guy really has problems and dont want you to know about that, or anybody else. When you take him to the court you might get your money but a very very bad image in the head of that guy,too. The other way round - if he finally pays you and he saw that you are flexible he might recommend you the next time. Have the good parts about people in mind, dont make assumtions. My cents... Pete Hotchkiss schrieb: Eamons point about the computer misuse act is not strictly true - you own the site unless a contract exists explicitly licensing full ownership of everything up payment completion. My advise however is to leave the site up and get Thomas Higgins on the case. He's BRILLIANT and has a ni on 100% record for recovering debts. He's completely ruthless and gets results http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/ Trust me - use these guys and you'll have you money before the month is out -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Piers Cowburn Sent: 08 December 2008 11:51 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03
[Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
give ftp information to some brazilian where there isnt internet's law. its an option too. 2008/12/8 Eamonn Faherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a grey area. Did you draw up a contract when you started the job? Deleting the live site could be deemed as an infringement of the computer misuse act. Do the easiest thing, sell the debt to a debt management agency and move on to another job. I bet the money you will lose doing this will be far less than the amount you can make on another job in the time it takes to chase this up! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- New blog post: UTM JavaScript Library, trabalhando com classes http://tinyurl.com/5dvasg = New blog post: Desenvolvimento Ágil, construindo um gerador de classes. http://tinyurl.com/64xa2h = Vox Tecnologia Grupo Comunidade de Comunicação Rafael Lúcio 29809.099333, http://www.postenove.com.br ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Hi Stephen, Here in Holland we have something called 'terms and conditions' for freelancers, which you have to make legal with an notary. This is a document which basically protects you from this kind of stuff, and this document can be taken to court if it ever comes to this. If you don't have this, it is a good thing to have, you probably have the same thing in the UK, and its well worth the money. (converted it costs about 300 pounds) If you made a contract with this person, and you both singed it, by law he is bound by it. (And legal steps can be under taken when broken). If you don't have a contract, your basically fucked. Plain and simple. Even though a verbal agreement is also legal binding it is very hard to prove. first thing you can do is send another invoice after about 4 weeks, if he doesn't respond to it, call him and say you will place and 'under construction' banner on the site, and that you will change the ftp password ( but dont do this just jet), if he still doesn't respond use an agency to collect the outstanding invoice (don't know what they are called in engish) if he still doesn't respond, place that 'underconstruction banner' online. Hope this helps, Good luck with it! Sid On Dec 8, 2008, at 12:02 PM, Stephen Matthews wrote: What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Sidney de Koning Flash / AIR Developer @ www.funky-monkey.nl Technical writer @ www.insideria.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
i wouldn't tip your hand about the ftp details - it would be very cheap for him to pay someone to change them a On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Sidney de Koning [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi Stephen, Here in Holland we have something called 'terms and conditions' for freelancers, which you have to make legal with an notary. This is a document which basically protects you from this kind of stuff, and this document can be taken to court if it ever comes to this. If you don't have this, it is a good thing to have, you probably have the same thing in the UK, and its well worth the money. (converted it costs about 300 pounds) If you made a contract with this person, and you both singed it, by law he is bound by it. (And legal steps can be under taken when broken). If you don't have a contract, your basically fucked. Plain and simple. Even though a verbal agreement is also legal binding it is very hard to prove. first thing you can do is send another invoice after about 4 weeks, if he doesn't respond to it, call him and say you will place and 'under construction' banner on the site, and that you will change the ftp password ( but dont do this just jet), if he still doesn't respond use an agency to collect the outstanding invoice (don't know what they are called in engish) if he still doesn't respond, place that 'underconstruction banner' online. Hope this helps, Good luck with it! Sid On Dec 8, 2008, at 12:02 PM, Stephen Matthews wrote: What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Sidney de Koning Flash / AIR Developer @ www.funky-monkey.nl Technical writer @ www.insideria.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
if the site hasn't been paid for, don't you still officially own the site files? i would put a message across the bottom of the site saying This site has not yet been paid for. To settle the invoice and remove this message please contact me at emailaddress or something similar where you get advertising and he gets bad publicity. The site is live so you've fulfilled any contractual obligation but he gets bad press the more he uses the site. alz On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 11:24 AM, poste9 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: give ftp information to some brazilian where there isnt internet's law. its an option too. 2008/12/8 Eamonn Faherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a grey area. Did you draw up a contract when you started the job? Deleting the live site could be deemed as an infringement of the computer misuse act. Do the easiest thing, sell the debt to a debt management agency and move on to another job. I bet the money you will lose doing this will be far less than the amount you can make on another job in the time it takes to chase this up! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- New blog post: UTM JavaScript Library, trabalhando com classes http://tinyurl.com/5dvasg = New blog post: Desenvolvimento Ágil, construindo um gerador de classes. http://tinyurl.com/64xa2h = Vox Tecnologia Grupo Comunidade de Comunicação Rafael Lúcio 29809.099333, http://www.postenove.com.br ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
This is a grey area. Did you draw up a contract when you started the job? Deleting the live site could be deemed as an infringement of the computer misuse act. Do the easiest thing, sell the debt to a debt management agency and move on to another job. I bet the money you will lose doing this will be far less than the amount you can make on another job in the time it takes to chase this up! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Sounds like you have pretty good advice so far. I would consider changing the ftp password but I don't know how lawful that is if its the clients hosting account. To prevent situations like these I require a down payment to even start and incremental payments as milestones are met. This allows either party to quit early without defaulting on the contract. Further, I host all of my clients sites free for 3 months. It's a nice gesture up front plus the site technically remains my property. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:50 AM, Piers Cowburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- --Joel Stransky stranskydesign.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Uh, I thought they dropped the requirement of Terms and Conditions to be registered by a notary? You still need to issue TC to the client like when sending the quote. If you haven't given the TC to the client it won't apply. For example, if you just put them on your website won't be good enough. Better to print in on the back of the quote and refer to it in your quote. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Eamons point about the computer misuse act is not strictly true - you own the site unless a contract exists explicitly licensing full ownership of everything up payment completion. My advise however is to leave the site up and get Thomas Higgins on the case. He's BRILLIANT and has a ni on 100% record for recovering debts. He's completely ruthless and gets results http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/ Trust me - use these guys and you'll have you money before the month is out -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Piers Cowburn Sent: 08 December 2008 11:51 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Have you ever thought about what that makes for your image? I would encourage you to stay polite and willing to accept their delay as long as it is possible for you. You can deny to work with this client in the future anyways but do not threaten somebody with court or anything before there is no other way around. Have always in mind that there can be a reason you could not even imagine behind that delay. You are dealing with people - just try to image this guy really has problems and dont want you to know about that, or anybody else. When you take him to the court you might get your money but a very very bad image in the head of that guy,too. The other way round - if he finally pays you and he saw that you are flexible he might recommend you the next time. Have the good parts about people in mind, dont make assumtions. My cents... Pete Hotchkiss schrieb: Eamons point about the computer misuse act is not strictly true - you own the site unless a contract exists explicitly licensing full ownership of everything up payment completion. My advise however is to leave the site up and get Thomas Higgins on the case. He's BRILLIANT and has a ni on 100% record for recovering debts. He's completely ruthless and gets results http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/ Trust me - use these guys and you'll have you money before the month is out -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Piers Cowburn Sent: 08 December 2008 11:51 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Im with Doctor H here, We don't know the details or both parties information about the project, if you are a freelancer/contractor this might harm you in the long run. Granted, you might get the money you are owed but in the end of the day it might be 1+ (many more) possible non clients. Remember that the bad press travels a lot faster than good rep and good rep is always hard to come by. If I read correctly you don't have a written contract which in the end is also a bad practice and you have to take your losses. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:13 PM, dr.ache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever thought about what that makes for your image? I would encourage you to stay polite and willing to accept their delay as long as it is possible for you. You can deny to work with this client in the future anyways but do not threaten somebody with court or anything before there is no other way around. Have always in mind that there can be a reason you could not even imagine behind that delay. You are dealing with people - just try to image this guy really has problems and dont want you to know about that, or anybody else. When you take him to the court you might get your money but a very very bad image in the head of that guy,too. The other way round - if he finally pays you and he saw that you are flexible he might recommend you the next time. Have the good parts about people in mind, dont make assumtions. My cents... Pete Hotchkiss schrieb: Eamons point about the computer misuse act is not strictly true - you own the site unless a contract exists explicitly licensing full ownership of everything up payment completion. My advise however is to leave the site up and get Thomas Higgins on the case. He's BRILLIANT and has a ni on 100% record for recovering debts. He's completely ruthless and gets results http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/ Trust me - use these guys and you'll have you money before the month is out -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Piers Cowburn Sent: 08 December 2008 11:51 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Having no contract does not make the none payer a good guy, he apparently does not want to pay. And if he have problems I guess the coder have too, so he should deal with his own stuff as we do here and if he can't he should commnicate about it. But I don't think the problem is here. The best thing is to call a lawyer that will get in contact with him, you won't even have to get to court, the guy will pay straight away. As far as he can't handle dirty hands I guess...but you will win. L Helmut Granda a écrit : Im with Doctor H here, We don't know the details or both parties information about the project, if you are a freelancer/contractor this might harm you in the long run. Granted, you might get the money you are owed but in the end of the day it might be 1+ (many more) possible non clients. Remember that the bad press travels a lot faster than good rep and good rep is always hard to come by. If I read correctly you don't have a written contract which in the end is also a bad practice and you have to take your losses. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:13 PM, dr.ache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever thought about what that makes for your image? I would encourage you to stay polite and willing to accept their delay as long as it is possible for you. You can deny to work with this client in the future anyways but do not threaten somebody with court or anything before there is no other way around. Have always in mind that there can be a reason you could not even imagine behind that delay. You are dealing with people - just try to image this guy really has problems and dont want you to know about that, or anybody else. When you take him to the court you might get your money but a very very bad image in the head of that guy,too. The other way round - if he finally pays you and he saw that you are flexible he might recommend you the next time. Have the good parts about people in mind, dont make assumtions. My cents... Pete Hotchkiss schrieb: Eamons point about the computer misuse act is not strictly true - you own the site unless a contract exists explicitly licensing full ownership of everything up payment completion. My advise however is to leave the site up and get Thomas Higgins on the case. He's BRILLIANT and has a ni on 100% record for recovering debts. He's completely ruthless and gets results http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/ Trust me - use these guys and you'll have you money before the month is out -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Piers Cowburn Sent: 08 December 2008 11:51 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 2:13 PM, dr.ache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have always in mind that there can be a reason you could not even imagine behind that delay. You are dealing with people - just try to image this guy really has problems and dont want you to know about that, or anybody else. When you take him to the court you might get your money but a very very bad image in the head of that guy,too. That's true, but as he says He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally.. I could be wrong, but for me that kind of behavior, where they start blaming the contractor and claiming this that and the other as a reason to not pay, sets off my BAD CLIENT alarm bells. A client who is having financial difficulties will often try to push off payment until later and give you the check is in the mail brushoffs, but actually claiming that your work doesnt deserve payment, even though they're using your work, is shady. .m ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
Never take the site offline, that is a looser situation. If you have ftp acces I would transfer the site to a private ftp, and make an I-frame from the original location. That way you protect your source files. First you disable his CMS entrance (never something visible on the frontside because that angries them, and they might sue you for hurting their business). Then you negotiate again. Latcho poste9 wrote: give ftp information to some brazilian where there isnt internet's law. its an option too. 2008/12/8 Eamonn Faherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a grey area. Did you draw up a contract when you started the job? Deleting the live site could be deemed as an infringement of the computer misuse act. Do the easiest thing, sell the debt to a debt management agency and move on to another job. I bet the money you will lose doing this will be far less than the amount you can make on another job in the time it takes to chase this up! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for.
But having the power to access to the server through FTP doesnt make the coder a good guy either :) On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 4:51 PM, laurent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having no contract does not make the none payer a good guy, he apparently does not want to pay. And if he have problems I guess the coder have too, so he should deal with his own stuff as we do here and if he can't he should commnicate about it. But I don't think the problem is here. The best thing is to call a lawyer that will get in contact with him, you won't even have to get to court, the guy will pay straight away. As far as he can't handle dirty hands I guess...but you will win. L Helmut Granda a écrit : Im with Doctor H here, We don't know the details or both parties information about the project, if you are a freelancer/contractor this might harm you in the long run. Granted, you might get the money you are owed but in the end of the day it might be 1+ (many more) possible non clients. Remember that the bad press travels a lot faster than good rep and good rep is always hard to come by. If I read correctly you don't have a written contract which in the end is also a bad practice and you have to take your losses. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:13 PM, dr.ache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever thought about what that makes for your image? I would encourage you to stay polite and willing to accept their delay as long as it is possible for you. You can deny to work with this client in the future anyways but do not threaten somebody with court or anything before there is no other way around. Have always in mind that there can be a reason you could not even imagine behind that delay. You are dealing with people - just try to image this guy really has problems and dont want you to know about that, or anybody else. When you take him to the court you might get your money but a very very bad image in the head of that guy,too. The other way round - if he finally pays you and he saw that you are flexible he might recommend you the next time. Have the good parts about people in mind, dont make assumtions. My cents... Pete Hotchkiss schrieb: Eamons point about the computer misuse act is not strictly true - you own the site unless a contract exists explicitly licensing full ownership of everything up payment completion. My advise however is to leave the site up and get Thomas Higgins on the case. He's BRILLIANT and has a ni on 100% record for recovering debts. He's completely ruthless and gets results http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/ Trust me - use these guys and you'll have you money before the month is out -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Piers Cowburn Sent: 08 December 2008 11:51 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. I've been in this situation before and done the same as Paul, it ended up going to a small claims court and the client didn't even turn up for the hearing. I got paid and the costs were covered by the client. Piers On 8 Dec 2008, at 11:38, Paul Steven wrote: Hi Stephen I had a similar situation about a year ago and in this case I had no contract but just emails from the client agreeing on the cost for the work. Anyway I simply made a claim via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and I won my case. It was really simple and will cost you nothing as you get all your costs paid for by the customer if you win. I would be reluctant to take the site down as doing so will then mean the customer has nothing to pay for. By leaving the site up and running, you have fulfilled your obligations. Anyway good luck!! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Matthews Sent: 08 December 2008 11:03 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] My rights - site not paid for. What are my rights ( in the UK ) for taking down a site which has not been paid for? The owner of the company is happy with his site, but is not coughing up. I still have FTP access. He says the site took too long, and makes lots of excuses for not paying - which do not tally. He changed the site drastically at least three times - I think it took too long too, due to this. He is updating the news section and other sections whenever he has new material. I would be interested in your thoughts. This person won an award for being a top business man this year - is this what you have to do to be a top business man - screw people? I am not the kind of person to take this action really, but I may consider it. Thanks S ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
