Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I think it has very little, if at all, to do with Apple wanting Adobe to produce a better product, and more to do with licensing fees, and revenue from app store purchases. There would be a lot of lost revenue from the app store if you could just put flash on your device and play a game downloaded off the web for free from a plug-in that passed along the capacitance and accelerometer data to the swf. On 2/4/2010 10:47 AM, Gregory Boudreaux wrote: Also Flash is playing a bigger role in corporate eLearning, especially after Adobe ended support for Authorware... and all the third party development tools that publish .swfs. In addition to Adobe Connect with its presentations and virtual classroom features. My personal opinion is that Jobs is trying to push Adobe to fix whatever problems he feels the Flash Player has on the Mac and get it to a state where he feels they can do business. He is playing this out in the public arena so that he can build up some support and maybe make Adobe speed things up a bit. With the emergence of Google in the mobile device market, Apple will need to step it up to stay on top the mountain... and I think one of those things will be to have the Flash Player on Apple mobile devices. It will be this big announcement and everyone will think it is the greatest thing since the iPhone. gregb ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I personally like the jailbroken iPhone the best.. :) So much more you can do. Karl - On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:24 PM, John R. Sweeney Jr wrote: I've been a Mac/Apple guy since the Apple IIe and I love the iPhone (several of my friends have them) and I've gotten to use it and take for a spin many, many times. I just got the Droid around Christmas and its easy, intuitive, well organized and I have to admit, for me I like it and find it easier to use than the iPhone. I love how I can organize things. It has it differences, but overall the experience is excellent and using it is a breeze. And the display for video, games and surfing IS AMAZING. The HD vid's are awesome. Just my 2 cents, John on 2/4/10 1:39 PM, Merrill, Jason at jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Hmm... all the Android phones I have seen, the UI experience was really not impressive and not smooth and not intuitive compared to the iPhone OS. It may be as capable, but it's fairly ugly - or at least, I just haven't seen a good implementation of it yet. John R. Sweeney Jr. Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc 945 Washington Blvd. Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 Office/Fax: 847.310.5959 Cellular: 847.651.4469 www.ondemandinteractive.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
how is it as a music player? a On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:24 AM, John R. Sweeney Jr jr.swee...@comcast.netwrote: I've been a Mac/Apple guy since the Apple IIe and I love the iPhone (several of my friends have them) and I've gotten to use it and take for a spin many, many times. I just got the Droid around Christmas and its easy, intuitive, well organized and I have to admit, for me I like it and find it easier to use than the iPhone. I love how I can organize things. It has it differences, but overall the experience is excellent and using it is a breeze. And the display for video, games and surfing IS AMAZING. The HD vid's are awesome. Just my 2 cents, John on 2/4/10 1:39 PM, Merrill, Jason at jason.merr...@bankofamerica.comwrote: Hmm... all the Android phones I have seen, the UI experience was really not impressive and not smooth and not intuitive compared to the iPhone OS. It may be as capable, but it's fairly ugly - or at least, I just haven't seen a good implementation of it yet. John R. Sweeney Jr. Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc 945 Washington Blvd. Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 Office/Fax: 847.310.5959 Cellular: 847.651.4469 www.ondemandinteractive.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I recently coded an AIR app for our reception area touch screen which demos one of Delvinia's other productions by loading it into an HTML component, that website includes a SWF embedded on the page and it runs just fine in the HTML component in AIR. Building a touch screen keyboard in AIR that communicates with that SWF was a bit of a pain, but the SWF itself just loads and runs exactly like it would in any other browser. -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Merrill, Jason Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:58 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? I was mostly kidding, but Adobe AIR does have a web browser control so you can make an app that has web page inside it. There are limitations to it of course, like I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:51 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Good to know. I guess I will have to try and build what I am thinking of. lol I'll make it my first Air project. :) Thanks everyone for the input, Karl On Feb 4, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Andrew Murphy wrote: I recently coded an AIR app for our reception area touch screen which demos one of Delvinia's other productions by loading it into an HTML component, that website includes a SWF embedded on the page and it runs just fine in the HTML component in AIR. Building a touch screen keyboard in AIR that communicates with that SWF was a bit of a pain, but the SWF itself just loads and runs exactly like it would in any other browser. -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Merrill, Jason Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:58 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? I was mostly kidding, but Adobe AIR does have a web browser control so you can make an app that has web page inside it. There are limitations to it of course, like I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:51 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Correct me if I'm wrong but for a touch screen flash based application you will need a monitor with touch screen hardware right? gus On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote: Good to know. I guess I will have to try and build what I am thinking of. lol I'll make it my first Air project. :) Thanks everyone for the input, Karl On Feb 4, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Andrew Murphy wrote: I recently coded an AIR app for our reception area touch screen which demos one of Delvinia's other productions by loading it into an HTML component, that website includes a SWF embedded on the page and it runs just fine in the HTML component in AIR. Building a touch screen keyboard in AIR that communicates with that SWF was a bit of a pain, but the SWF itself just loads and runs exactly like it would in any other browser. -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Merrill, Jason Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:58 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? I was mostly kidding, but Adobe AIR does have a web browser control so you can make an app that has web page inside it. There are limitations to it of course, like I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:51 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Yep - we have these too, except 3M's touchscreen drivers are a b***h to get working on recent versions of Linux / X-Windows. Gustavo Duenas wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but for a touch screen flash based application you will need a monitor with touch screen hardware right? gus On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote: Good to know. I guess I will have to try and build what I am thinking of. lol I'll make it my first Air project. :) Thanks everyone for the input, Karl On Feb 4, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Andrew Murphy wrote: I recently coded an AIR app for our reception area touch screen which demos one of Delvinia's other productions by loading it into an HTML component, that website includes a SWF embedded on the page and it runs just fine in the HTML component in AIR. Building a touch screen keyboard in AIR that communicates with that SWF was a bit of a pain, but the SWF itself just loads and runs exactly like it would in any other browser. -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Merrill, Jason Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:58 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? I was mostly kidding, but Adobe AIR does have a web browser control so you can make an app that has web page inside it. There are limitations to it of course, like I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:51 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Also Flash is playing a bigger role in corporate eLearning, especially after Adobe ended support for Authorware... and all the third party development tools that publish .swfs. In addition to Adobe Connect with its presentations and virtual classroom features. My personal opinion is that Jobs is trying to push Adobe to fix whatever problems he feels the Flash Player has on the Mac and get it to a state where he feels they can do business. He is playing this out in the public arena so that he can build up some support and maybe make Adobe speed things up a bit. With the emergence of Google in the mobile device market, Apple will need to step it up to stay on top the mountain... and I think one of those things will be to have the Flash Player on Apple mobile devices. It will be this big announcement and everyone will think it is the greatest thing since the iPhone. gregb ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Yes, you do indeed. I'm looking forward to AIR 2.0 and the v10.1 plugin which will support multi-touch and gestures. -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Duenas Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:12 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Correct me if I'm wrong but for a touch screen flash based application you will need a monitor with touch screen hardware right? gus On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote: Good to know. I guess I will have to try and build what I am thinking of. lol I'll make it my first Air project. :) Thanks everyone for the input, Karl On Feb 4, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Andrew Murphy wrote: I recently coded an AIR app for our reception area touch screen which demos one of Delvinia's other productions by loading it into an HTML component, that website includes a SWF embedded on the page and it runs just fine in the HTML component in AIR. Building a touch screen keyboard in AIR that communicates with that SWF was a bit of a pain, but the SWF itself just loads and runs exactly like it would in any other browser. -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Merrill, Jason Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:58 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? I was mostly kidding, but Adobe AIR does have a web browser control so you can make an app that has web page inside it. There are limitations to it of course, like I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:51 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Gregory Boudreaux wrote: Also Flash is playing a bigger role in corporate eLearning, especially after Adobe ended support for Authorware... and all the third party development tools that publish .swfs. In addition to Adobe Connect with its presentations and virtual classroom features. My personal opinion is that Jobs is trying to push Adobe to fix whatever problems he feels the Flash Player has on the Mac and get it to a state where he feels they can do business. He is playing this out in the public arena so that he can build up some support and maybe make Adobe speed things up a bit. With the emergence of Google in the mobile device market, Apple will need to step it up to stay on top the mountain... and I think one of those things will be to have the Flash Player on Apple mobile devices. It will be this big announcement and everyone will think it is the greatest thing since the iPhone. It's not technical. App via Appstore = apple income $$$. App via flash developer = 0$ Anyway, we can talk all we like Jobs is in control of the platform, not Adobe. Adobe has taken the cross-compiling route to leverage native flash onto the platform. Paul gregb ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Also Flash is playing a bigger role in corporate eLearning especially after Adobe ended support for Authorware Yep - agree there - that's what pays my bills and most of the people I work with. Although, we dropped Authorware years ago, and I dropped around 2001. I run the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community, a Flash user group, and we meet monthly. I have about 80 employees in the group. Apple will need to step it up to stay on top the mountain... and I think one of those things will be to have the Flash Player on Apple mobile devices. Yeah, would be nice, but Apple has a history of painting themselves into a corner and either not caring, or refusing to come out. I don't think it will happen, at least not anytime soon. I agree with Paul, it's all about the app store and money. Flash or Silverlight support would take a big chunk of that away (though I don't think as big of a chunk as Apple thinks - iPhone app development is in full swing and it's making developers money). Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
My statement didn't refer to Jobs controlling the platform. IMO, he is doing what he thinks he needs to do to get the Flash player on his devices. Adobe will have the Flash Player on every non-Apple device in the near future... and I think Jobs is positioning his company for some concessions to get it on his devices as well. Again this is just my opinion. Also the Appstore money, while nice to the bottom line, is peanuts compared to the money they make on hardware sales. Jobs wants to sell mobile devices and a future selling point will be the Flash Player... IMO. gregb -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Paul Andrews Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:07 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Gregory Boudreaux wrote: Also Flash is playing a bigger role in corporate eLearning, especially after Adobe ended support for Authorware... and all the third party development tools that publish .swfs. In addition to Adobe Connect with its presentations and virtual classroom features. My personal opinion is that Jobs is trying to push Adobe to fix whatever problems he feels the Flash Player has on the Mac and get it to a state where he feels they can do business. He is playing this out in the public arena so that he can build up some support and maybe make Adobe speed things up a bit. With the emergence of Google in the mobile device market, Apple will need to step it up to stay on top the mountain... and I think one of those things will be to have the Flash Player on Apple mobile devices. It will be this big announcement and everyone will think it is the greatest thing since the iPhone. It's not technical. App via Appstore = apple income $$$. App via flash developer = 0$ Anyway, we can talk all we like Jobs is in control of the platform, not Adobe. Adobe has taken the cross-compiling route to leverage native flash onto the platform. Paul gregb ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
What's everyone's take on a possible Google tablet running on Android? Of course, with the Flash Player that Adobe is building for Android. I saw a mockup yesterday, I believe on cnn.com. Say that has Flash on it, why bother with an iPad, except to feel more sophisticated or something. - MM ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Afterwards, Macromedia bribed - er, hired Nielsen as a usability consultant. I wonder if Adobe will offer Jobs $1 a year for some important sounding title. _ _ _ Erik Mattheis Senior Web Developer Minneapolis T 952 346 6610 C 612 377 2272 Weber Shandwick Advocacy starts here. PRWeek Global Agency Report Card 2009 - Gold Medal Winner The Holmes Report Global Agency of the Year PR News Agency of the Year -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Brian Mays Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:39 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash I'm going to chime in to say this current tide reminds me of the hubbub that rose up when this article was written: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html The article's title: Flash is 99% bad. It was published 10 years ago. We've survived and evolved. Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
is that the msi built one? that looked nice On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Mendelsohn, Michael michael.mendels...@fmglobal.com wrote: What's everyone's take on a possible Google tablet running on Android? Of course, with the Flash Player that Adobe is building for Android. I saw a mockup yesterday, I believe on cnn.com. Say that has Flash on it, why bother with an iPad, except to feel more sophisticated or something. - MM ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
As wireless device maybe but not 3G -- maybe once network gets up to 6 or 7G maybe resistance to flash fades for the handheld crowd... who can predict? Adobe is so passive here -- why not a 'FlashPad' for learning? They then could think in terms of downloading apps that are closer to game installs on a handheld device... Why not? A 'FlashStore' could then take on the 'AppStore'... Just saying... -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Mendelsohn, Michael Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:29 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash What's everyone's take on a possible Google tablet running on Android? Of course, with the Flash Player that Adobe is building for Android. I saw a mockup yesterday, I believe on cnn.com. Say that has Flash on it, why bother with an iPad, except to feel more sophisticated or something. - MM ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
As wireless device maybe but not 3G -- maybe once network gets up to 6 or 7G maybe resistance to flash fades for the handheld crowd... who can predict? Flash will work fine for all the people running Android and Symbian, and probably WinMo, when FP 10.1 comes out. I suspect that'll be pretty soon. Flash Player 7 actually worked just fine on my old WinMo phone. 3G was good enough. Adobe is so passive here -- why not a 'FlashPad' for learning? They then could think in terms of downloading apps that are closer to game installs on a handheld device... Why not? A 'FlashStore' could then take on the 'AppStore'... Adobe should get into the hardware business? Really? Very soon, practically anything not iPhone/iPod/iPad will be able to run Flash! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I not saying 3G can't run it -- but that's the impression that customers have... Not get into hardware business but maybe they should partner for FlashPad and FlashStore I'm frustrated because Apple is dictating in that market and Adobe is passive about it... What do you think about the FlashApp Store? While Lynch is weighing options Apple has done all of this. As a CTO do you think they're that well postioned? Should people abandon the Apple SDK for Flash? Where's the case being made that it should be? I really think Flash does have potential to be great in that marketplace just wondering what's holding them up from promoting themselves as major players there. -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:29 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash As wireless device maybe but not 3G -- maybe once network gets up to 6 or 7G maybe resistance to flash fades for the handheld crowd... who can predict? Flash will work fine for all the people running Android and Symbian, and probably WinMo, when FP 10.1 comes out. I suspect that'll be pretty soon. Flash Player 7 actually worked just fine on my old WinMo phone. 3G was good enough. Adobe is so passive here -- why not a 'FlashPad' for learning? They then could think in terms of downloading apps that are closer to game installs on a handheld device... Why not? A 'FlashStore' could then take on the 'AppStore'... Adobe should get into the hardware business? Really? Very soon, practically anything not iPhone/iPod/iPad will be able to run Flash! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I'm frustrated because Apple is dictating in that market and Adobe is passive about it... What do you think about the FlashApp Store? I think that one of the great benefits of Flash is that it lets me add functionality beyond HTML to HTML/HTTP delivery. I don't need a store for Flash. And that's really the problem, from Apple's perspective. The App Store is the big, long-term revenue generator from Apple's perspective. The iPads, etc, are razors, and the App Store sells razor blades. Apple doesn't want people getting free razor blades off the street, so to speak. While Lynch is weighing options Apple has done all of this. As a CTO do you think they're that well postioned? Should people abandon the Apple SDK for Flash? Where's the case being made that it should be? Adobe is in the position that they're in. There's not a lot they can do to force Apple to let Flash on the iPhone OS. It's clear that there's no technical limitation, as Flash can run on all sorts of devices. So, Adobe has to bet that they're going to win - that enough devices will support Flash. And I think that, while it's unfortunate that Apple probably won't give in to Adobe on this, Apple doesn't have enough marketshare to make that much of a difference. It's important to remember this - while lots of people have iPhones, etc, they certainly don't have market dominance there. And, if enough people have better experiences on other devices that do support Flash, that will motivate some people to move from the iPhone to those other devices. The same also applies to the iPad, which at this point is really an unknown quantity. I really think Flash does have potential to be great in that marketplace just wondering what's holding them up from promoting themselves as major players there. I think that's the release of FP 10.1 across its targeted platforms. When that happens, I think that'll make a big difference. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I'm suspecting something, maybe adobe and android are planning something, maybe one of them, so just let Jobs to fantasize with the world domination, true that sooner or later flash will emerge even better. Gus On Feb 4, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Boerner, Brian J wrote: I not saying 3G can't run it -- but that's the impression that customers have... Not get into hardware business but maybe they should partner for FlashPad and FlashStore I'm frustrated because Apple is dictating in that market and Adobe is passive about it... What do you think about the FlashApp Store? While Lynch is weighing options Apple has done all of this. As a CTO do you think they're that well postioned? Should people abandon the Apple SDK for Flash? Where's the case being made that it should be? I really think Flash does have potential to be great in that marketplace just wondering what's holding them up from promoting themselves as major players there. -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com ] On Behalf Of Dave Watts Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:29 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash As wireless device maybe but not 3G -- maybe once network gets up to 6 or 7G maybe resistance to flash fades for the handheld crowd... who can predict? Flash will work fine for all the people running Android and Symbian, and probably WinMo, when FP 10.1 comes out. I suspect that'll be pretty soon. Flash Player 7 actually worked just fine on my old WinMo phone. 3G was good enough. Adobe is so passive here -- why not a 'FlashPad' for learning? They then could think in terms of downloading apps that are closer to game installs on a handheld device... Why not? A 'FlashStore' could then take on the 'AppStore'... Adobe should get into the hardware business? Really? Very soon, practically anything not iPhone/iPod/iPad will be able to run Flash! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I'm suspecting something, maybe adobe and android are planning something, maybe one of them, so just let Jobs to fantasize with the world domination, true that sooner or later flash will emerge even better. No suspicion of planning needed! FP 10.1 will soon be available for Android, and Chrome OS will have no problem running Flash. So all these new phones and tablets coming out using both of those OSs are covered. And Android is sweet. The ONLY competitive advantage Apple has with the iPhone is the breadth of the App Store. I wouldn't want an iPhone, but I have an iPod Touch just for that. But I suspect that'll change over time as well, as developers embrace Android. There's a market for $0.99 fart apps on the Android as well, I'm sure. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Hmm... all the Android phones I have seen, the UI experience was really not impressive and not smooth and not intuitive compared to the iPhone OS. It may be as capable, but it's fairly ugly - or at least, I just haven't seen a good implementation of it yet. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:37 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash I'm suspecting something, maybe adobe and android are planning something, maybe one of them, so just let Jobs to fantasize with the world domination, true that sooner or later flash will emerge even better. No suspicion of planning needed! FP 10.1 will soon be available for Android, and Chrome OS will have no problem running Flash. So all these new phones and tablets coming out using both of those OSs are covered. And Android is sweet. The ONLY competitive advantage Apple has with the iPhone is the breadth of the App Store. I wouldn't want an iPhone, but I have an iPod Touch just for that. But I suspect that'll change over time as well, as developers embrace Android. There's a market for $0.99 fart apps on the Android as well, I'm sure. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Hmm... all the Android phones I have seen, the UI experience was really not impressive and not smooth and not intuitive compared to the iPhone OS. It may be as capable, but it's fairly ugly - or at least, I just haven't seen a good implementation of it yet. Well, I don't find either interface especially intuitive. Because they aren't. (You've really hit one of my pet peeves with intuitive.) But I do find them equally approachable, and in many ways I find the Android interface easier to use. I'm using a Droid (running 2.0) so I will admit that it's a bit different than 1.5/1.6 devices. I'm able to do more with it in less time than I could using the iPhone. I can check mail and compose messages easier, synchronization works better, there's a native Google Voice app, etc, etc. I can click on the address of a calendar event, and get automatic GPS navigation to that address. I could go on and on, but you get the point I guess. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
(You've really hit one of my pet peeves with intuitive.) equally approachable, and in many ways I find the Android interface easier to use In my head, intuitive does in fact mean easier to use and approachable. I haven't seen the Droid's implementation though... maybe it's better. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Sorry, it was pointed out to me that Adobe does have an app store - the exchange... maybe it could be managed more like Apple's... seems to me something big needs to happen to 'stop the bleeding' From where I am I noted that ajax took a major bite out of Rich Internet Applications done in Flash simply because there were more developers for it and it made more sense from maintenance perspective. For every project there is the ideal platform but it does seems to me that google, blackberry others are all doing the appStore deal - hopefully flash can get in on each and every one even if they don't get in on Apple... maybe then they will start to flex some muscle... To me they're starting to look like they're hoping for kindness of others vs charting a course -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:23 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash I'm frustrated because Apple is dictating in that market and Adobe is passive about it... What do you think about the FlashApp Store? I think that one of the great benefits of Flash is that it lets me add functionality beyond HTML to HTML/HTTP delivery. I don't need a store for Flash. And that's really the problem, from Apple's perspective. The App Store is the big, long-term revenue generator from Apple's perspective. The iPads, etc, are razors, and the App Store sells razor blades. Apple doesn't want people getting free razor blades off the street, so to speak. While Lynch is weighing options Apple has done all of this. As a CTO do you think they're that well postioned? Should people abandon the Apple SDK for Flash? Where's the case being made that it should be? Adobe is in the position that they're in. There's not a lot they can do to force Apple to let Flash on the iPhone OS. It's clear that there's no technical limitation, as Flash can run on all sorts of devices. So, Adobe has to bet that they're going to win - that enough devices will support Flash. And I think that, while it's unfortunate that Apple probably won't give in to Adobe on this, Apple doesn't have enough marketshare to make that much of a difference. It's important to remember this - while lots of people have iPhones, etc, they certainly don't have market dominance there. And, if enough people have better experiences on other devices that do support Flash, that will motivate some people to move from the iPhone to those other devices. The same also applies to the iPad, which at this point is really an unknown quantity. I really think Flash does have potential to be great in that marketplace just wondering what's holding them up from promoting themselves as major players there. I think that's the release of FP 10.1 across its targeted platforms. When that happens, I think that'll make a big difference. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
In my head, intuitive does in fact mean easier to use and approachable. I haven't seen the Droid's implementation though... maybe it's better. But this ease of use doesn't come from intuition, it comes from learned experience with other things. If I took a Droid and an iPhone to my father-in-law, he'd be equally perplexed by both. And for him to zoom in on a browser page, he'd need to know to double-tap on the Droid, and pinch-to-zoom on the iPhone. Neither is anything he could infer without prior experience. You don't go double-tapping or pinching things anywhere else to make them zoom in. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Wow. I think you're over-thinking things, or at least taking my comments too literally. :) You know what I meant. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:06 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash In my head, intuitive does in fact mean easier to use and approachable. I haven't seen the Droid's implementation though... maybe it's better. But this ease of use doesn't come from intuition, it comes from learned experience with other things. If I took a Droid and an iPhone to my father-in-law, he'd be equally perplexed by both. And for him to zoom in on a browser page, he'd need to know to double-tap on the Droid, and pinch-to-zoom on the iPhone. Neither is anything he could infer without prior experience. You don't go double-tapping or pinching things anywhere else to make them zoom in. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I've been dipping my toes in to both iPhone and Android dev. I think people find the iPhone interface more polished and that translates, for them, to intuitive -- it's consistency, and it is a good thing that has made the iPhone very successful. I want consistency in my DVR, TV, component systems, etc. But for a hand-held computer -- and that's what I see these as -- I want control. We're dumping our iPhone/iPod Touches at home. Wife wanted a MyTouch and I'm gonna order a Nexus One (once I get up the cash). Personal preference. Same way some like OS X, some like *nix (and some are stuck on Windows ;-) [Stopping my self from going on about how Apple treats their developers vs how Android or Adobe or Microsoft does, but resisting the massive OT rant. However, THIS will be one of the things that sinks them in the end.] Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I just read an article by Jared M. Spool titled What Makes a Design Seem 'Intuitive,' (http://www.uie.com/articles/design_intuitive/). Thought it might help flesh out this discussion about intuitive interfaces. Also, from dictionary.reference.com: * Intuitive: perceiving by intuition, as a person or the mind. * Intuition: direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension * Explicit: fully and clearly expressed or demonstrated; leaving nothing merely implied; unequivocal: explicit instructions; an explicit act of violence; explicit language. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/explicit) Thanks, Raymond Simmons Neon Sky Creative Media, Inc. Merrill wrote: Wow. I think you're over-thinking things, or at least taking my comments too literally. :) You know what I meant. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:06 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash In my head, intuitive does in fact mean easier to use and approachable. I haven't seen the Droid's implementation though... maybe it's better. But this ease of use doesn't come from intuition, it comes from learned experience with other things. If I took a Droid and an iPhone to my father-in-law, he'd be equally perplexed by both. And for him to zoom in on a browser page, he'd need to know to double-tap on the Droid, and pinch-to-zoom on the iPhone. Neither is anything he could infer without prior experience. You don't go double-tapping or pinching things anywhere else to make them zoom in. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Wow. I think you're over-thinking things, or at least taking my comments too literally. :) You know what I meant. I think it's an important distinction, though. Many people use intuitive this way, and many other people take what they said using the actual meaning of the word, leading to significant confusion, products failing or succeeding, etc. It makes a big difference in my own observation. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I think it's an important distinction, though. Many people use intuitive this way, and many other people take what they said using the actual meaning of the word, leading to significant confusion, products failing or succeeding, etc. It makes a big difference in my own observation. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software GEEZ!! Enough already. Where's the list moderator when you really need him? Finding the guy is not all that intuitive. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
GEEZ!! Enough already. Where's the list moderator when you really need him? Finding the guy is not all that intuitive. :) Yeah, well, he's kind of a dick anyway. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
+1 On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Boerner, Brian J wrote: As wireless device maybe but not 3G -- maybe once network gets up to 6 or 7G maybe resistance to flash fades for the handheld crowd... who can predict? Adobe is so passive here -- why not a 'FlashPad' for learning? They then could think in terms of downloading apps that are closer to game installs on a handheld device... Why not? A 'FlashStore' could then take on the 'AppStore'... Just saying... -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders- boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Mendelsohn, Michael Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:29 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash What's everyone's take on a possible Google tablet running on Android? Of course, with the Flash Player that Adobe is building for Android. I saw a mockup yesterday, I believe on cnn.com. Say that has Flash on it, why bother with an iPad, except to feel more sophisticated or something. - MM ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I've been a Mac/Apple guy since the Apple IIe and I love the iPhone (several of my friends have them) and I've gotten to use it and take for a spin many, many times. I just got the Droid around Christmas and its easy, intuitive, well organized and I have to admit, for me I like it and find it easier to use than the iPhone. I love how I can organize things. It has it differences, but overall the experience is excellent and using it is a breeze. And the display for video, games and surfing IS AMAZING. The HD vid's are awesome. Just my 2 cents, John on 2/4/10 1:39 PM, Merrill, Jason at jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Hmm... all the Android phones I have seen, the UI experience was really not impressive and not smooth and not intuitive compared to the iPhone OS. It may be as capable, but it's fairly ugly - or at least, I just haven't seen a good implementation of it yet. John R. Sweeney Jr. Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc 945 Washington Blvd. Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 Office/Fax: 847.310.5959 Cellular: 847.651.4469 www.ondemandinteractive.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
[Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
from my client ( an established design agency in NYC ): artur, I've been doing a lot of research and polling of colleagues. *Here's my takeaway:* - no one knows what's going on - flash developers I've spoken to all are saying it's no big deal, proceed with flash - all designers are making an abrupt shift away from flash, steering their clients as a result - clients are questioning flash even without prompting - media has called for the death of it I think the answer is that Flash will need to change ASAP, or else I can't recommend it without looking like an ignoramus to clients. That sucks, because I love Flash, but it's not where the momentum is moving. People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. any articles , facts, that i can point them to that may change their minds? thanks artur ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
sorry to say, but not a respectable agency in that case, not even aware of what's really going on. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 14:55, artur ar...@artur.com wrote: from my client ( an established design agency in NYC ): artur, I've been doing a lot of research and polling of colleagues. *Here's my takeaway:* - no one knows what's going on - flash developers I've spoken to all are saying it's no big deal, proceed with flash - all designers are making an abrupt shift away from flash, steering their clients as a result - clients are questioning flash even without prompting - media has called for the death of it I think the answer is that Flash will need to change ASAP, or else I can't recommend it without looking like an ignoramus to clients. That sucks, because I love Flash, but it's not where the momentum is moving. People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. any articles , facts, that i can point them to that may change their minds? thanks artur ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Don't tell me - all the designers use Mac's and look like this guy. http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/7/12/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Whatever we might think of this agency or their opinions, we need to recognize that this is probably what the next year of our lives is going to look like, and I guarantee you you'll be hearing it from respectable agencies as well. Flash just took a shotgun blast to the stomach thanks to Steve Jobs and clients have no idea how to react or who to trust, so they're going to take the easy route and run with the herd, which in this case just turned tail and ran away from Flash. And it doesnt help when you have non-Flash developers who are only too eager to jump in and help dig the grave, or whisper in the ear of their bosses to ditch Flash already. .m On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Christian Pugliese pugli...@gmail.com wrote: sorry to say, but not a respectable agency in that case, not even aware of what's really going on. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
LMFAO! That's awesome Glen. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Glen Pike g...@engineeredarts.co.uk wrote: Don't tell me - all the designers use Mac's and look like this guy. http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/7/12/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
This scenario is exactly what I was worried would start happening. I'm glad I live near Hollywood. They love Flash. -- Carl Welch http://www.carlwelch.com On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Matt S. mattsp...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever we might think of this agency or their opinions, we need to recognize that this is probably what the next year of our lives is going to look like, and I guarantee you you'll be hearing it from respectable agencies as well. Flash just took a shotgun blast to the stomach thanks to Steve Jobs and clients have no idea how to react or who to trust, so they're going to take the easy route and run with the herd, which in this case just turned tail and ran away from Flash. And it doesnt help when you have non-Flash developers who are only too eager to jump in and help dig the grave, or whisper in the ear of their bosses to ditch Flash already. .m On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Christian Pugliese pugli...@gmail.com wrote: sorry to say, but not a respectable agency in that case, not even aware of what's really going on. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. I think for the type of site where html/css/jquery is enough to implement it Flash is indeed a bad choice. What should be it's value proposition in those cases? At best it won't get into the way. At worst it'll increase load times, worsen SEO, break browser navigation, won't allow proper page links, won't honour browser color settings, won't degrade well, won't allow my adblockers etc... In my personal experience I have seen far more bad flash sites than usable ones. Granted, we are finally past the skip intro infant stage, but there is still a lot of garbage out there. Now don't get me wrong, I think flash fills a very important niche for developing highly interactive, dynamic and media rich browser applications. No other tool even comes close in the domains flash really shines - but please don't think it's the right platform for every website. best regards, Sören ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
folks, this is a wake up call. yes, larger agencies with an in-house internet dev dept. will be in the know. but for the rest of the world..when the word on the street is : flash = stay away. that hits my bottom line. i need to counter. fast. adobe i hope your going to pack some punches. -a On 2/3/2010 2:09 PM, Christian Pugliese wrote: sorry to say, but not a respectable agency in that case, not even aware of what's really going on. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 14:55, artur ar...@artur.com mailto:ar...@artur.com wrote: from my client ( an established design agency in NYC ): artur, I've been doing a lot of research and polling of colleagues. *Here's my takeaway:* - no one knows what's going on - flash developers I've spoken to all are saying it's no big deal, proceed with flash - all designers are making an abrupt shift away from flash, steering their clients as a result - clients are questioning flash even without prompting - media has called for the death of it I think the answer is that Flash will need to change ASAP, or else I can't recommend it without looking like an ignoramus to clients. That sucks, because I love Flash, but it's not where the momentum is moving. People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. any articles , facts, that i can point them to that may change their minds? thanks artur ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com mailto:Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
adobe i hope your going to pack some punches. They better, and I'm fairly confident they will react appropriately. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything. - MM ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I second Soren... Good designers and developers must choose what fits best each website, and that should have been done by a long time, now things are just going to get more serious. Flash wont die, not in a near future, html5 badly supports video tag, there are browser compatibility stuff, there are interactive, etc etc... Flash people and Adobe just need to learn how to argue better, and this had happen before. Chris. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 15:46, Soeren.Meyer-Eppler soeren.meyer-epp...@buschnick.net wrote: People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. I think for the type of site where html/css/jquery is enough to implement it Flash is indeed a bad choice. What should be it's value proposition in those cases? At best it won't get into the way. At worst it'll increase load times, worsen SEO, break browser navigation, won't allow proper page links, won't honour browser color settings, won't degrade well, won't allow my adblockers etc... In my personal experience I have seen far more bad flash sites than usable ones. Granted, we are finally past the skip intro infant stage, but there is still a lot of garbage out there. Now don't get me wrong, I think flash fills a very important niche for developing highly interactive, dynamic and media rich browser applications. No other tool even comes close in the domains flash really shines - but please don't think it's the right platform for every website. best regards, Sören ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
with any luck they will succeed in getting flash player 10.1 on all future cellphones using the ARM chip and will bring the ability to have apps on many cellphones not called iphone On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Mendelsohn, Michael michael.mendels...@fmglobal.com wrote: adobe i hope your going to pack some punches. They better, and I'm fairly confident they will react appropriately. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything. - MM ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
it will be interesting to see what happens. this post on the topic of html5 vs flash is well balanced and non-inflammatory:http://richardleggett.co.uk/blog/index.php/2010/02/01/the-world-is-moving-to-html5 this post from someone at photoshop might cheer everyone up:http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/01/sympathy_for_the_devil.html there are heaps of other articles i've seen but these are two good recent ones. david Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:55:14 -0300 From: ar...@artur.com To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash from my client ( an established design agency in NYC ): artur, I've been doing a lot of research and polling of colleagues. *Here's my takeaway:* - no one knows what's going on - flash developers I've spoken to all are saying it's no big deal, proceed with flash - all designers are making an abrupt shift away from flash, steering their clients as a result - clients are questioning flash even without prompting - media has called for the death of it I think the answer is that Flash will need to change ASAP, or else I can't recommend it without looking like an ignoramus to clients. That sucks, because I love Flash, but it's not where the momentum is moving. People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. any articles , facts, that i can point them to that may change their minds? thanks artur ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders _ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Btw, ABC.com is streaming Lost Final Season online in Flash, I wonder, in case he haven't seen yesterday, if Steve Jobs will watch it online in Flash, or will he just go illegal and download via torrent? what about those agency guys as well? (just kidding) On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 16:10, David Hunter davehunte...@hotmail.com wrote: it will be interesting to see what happens. this post on the topic of html5 vs flash is well balanced and non-inflammatory: http://richardleggett.co.uk/blog/index.php/2010/02/01/the-world-is-moving-to-html5 this post from someone at photoshop might cheer everyone up: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/01/sympathy_for_the_devil.html there are heaps of other articles i've seen but these are two good recent ones. david Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:55:14 -0300 From: ar...@artur.com To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash from my client ( an established design agency in NYC ): artur, I've been doing a lot of research and polling of colleagues. *Here's my takeaway:* - no one knows what's going on - flash developers I've spoken to all are saying it's no big deal, proceed with flash - all designers are making an abrupt shift away from flash, steering their clients as a result - clients are questioning flash even without prompting - media has called for the death of it I think the answer is that Flash will need to change ASAP, or else I can't recommend it without looking like an ignoramus to clients. That sucks, because I love Flash, but it's not where the momentum is moving. People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. any articles , facts, that i can point them to that may change their minds? thanks artur ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders _ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Everyone move to Hollywood! ;^) Does anyone on this list have a decent stock response we could all use? I don't. Let's be realistic. Coming up with rationale for using Flash as development platform is tougher than it used to be by far... I guess gaming is safe to decent extent... Does anyone here not think Adobe has gotten fat or at least overweight and lazy? They just had to know they weren't in great position to get plug-in for iPhone... so why as of yet have they not come out with a blow-the-doors-down release for all other platforms? Where's the 'strategy'? I guess they're too busy worrying about how to suck some more cash out of next version of photoshop... I really can't tell. As someone who likes Flash I'm stranded because it doesn't quite 'fit' the times anymore. To make things worse the heat from non-flash folks is white-hot. So much so that even perfect flash execution will take a beat-down for various reasons. Adobe's response to Jobs was weak at best - certainly doesn't come across as confident they will win 'the market'. I'd give them a (generous) grade of C... I wonder if Macromedia would've been in front of this years ago! If you were the Flash Product Manager what would you do now? You can't just stand there taking punches right? -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Carl Welch Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:44 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash This scenario is exactly what I was worried would start happening. I'm glad I live near Hollywood. They love Flash. -- Carl Welch http://www.carlwelch.com On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Matt S. mattsp...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever we might think of this agency or their opinions, we need to recognize that this is probably what the next year of our lives is going to look like, and I guarantee you you'll be hearing it from respectable agencies as well. Flash just took a shotgun blast to the stomach thanks to Steve Jobs and clients have no idea how to react or who to trust, so they're going to take the easy route and run with the herd, which in this case just turned tail and ran away from Flash. And it doesnt help when you have non-Flash developers who are only too eager to jump in and help dig the grave, or whisper in the ear of their bosses to ditch Flash already. .m On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Christian Pugliese pugli...@gmail.com wrote: sorry to say, but not a respectable agency in that case, not even aware of what's really going on. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Lurker chiming in (I'm talkative today...) In the end, I believe this will completely blow over, with very little change. Yeah, for the next few months some panic-prone clients are going to look for other solutions besides Flash. So long as you aren't positioned in the market as only a Flash Developer rather than a web developer, those same clients will still be coming to you for solutions. Stick to offering solutions and coming up with the best solution to their needs. Most clients don't give a damn how you pull it off so long as it's cost effective. Those demanding non-flash will come to you to pull off some animation magic, and you'll politely explain that what they want is only possible in Flash and they may need to scale back their vision if they would like to avoid using that technology. You might have to keep it in the back of your mind when pitching a project that the client may object to the use of Flash. So have a backup plan sans flash. They may end up changing their mind once they realize what they're losing. Adobe's got the right response here, which is to say nothing. Jobs can spout and sputter but just because he says something doesn't make it real -- despite what a few die-hards believe. Trying to refute his speeches and insults at best would make Adobe look petty and defensive, and a villain to those who believe Jobs walks on water. What they can do is keep innovating and moving the platform forward. See what happens when you draw out the lurkers -- we can't shut ourselves up... ;-) Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
It may be helpful to discuss with clients something that we should always be doing when developing Flash web apps anyway; alternative content. And I mean giving the non-Flash user something more than just a link to download the Flash plugin. To respond to client concerns and provide a great user experience I think we'll be devoting more time and budget to building a non-Flash alternative, using whatever technology is appropriate, that provides a similar user experience to what we build in the Flash. Which of course will raise the question, Why create a Flash version in the first place? I think the answer to that will continue to be the reasons we've been using it all along: - gorgeous timeline based and programatic animation - video audio, these won't be going away just because you can do it another way.. and when you can integrate video audio with Flash's other capabilities, there's nothing else that can compete right now - a rich API that provides powerful integration with the web and desktop, which also makes it adaptable to whatever need the client wakes up with tomorrow - you can create a seamless exerience regardless of your target software and hardware platform (except for a few *ahem* exceptions). - a massive user share that I expect will continue to grow when v10.1 drops - a similarly massive developer base, including many open-source projects providing even more depth to the API - integration with Adobe's other products, and I don't believe that any of those will be dropping out of the market any time soon. In short, I think that developing richer alternate content (black white) could be that little bit of shugar that helps a fearful client swallow the big Flash pill (kodachrome). :) (ps: Yes, I know I spell 'shugar' incorrectly.) -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of artur Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:55 AM To: flashcoders Subject: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash from my client ( an established design agency in NYC ): artur, I've been doing a lot of research and polling of colleagues. *Here's my takeaway:* - no one knows what's going on - flash developers I've spoken to all are saying it's no big deal, proceed with flash - all designers are making an abrupt shift away from flash, steering their clients as a result - clients are questioning flash even without prompting - media has called for the death of it I think the answer is that Flash will need to change ASAP, or else I can't recommend it without looking like an ignoramus to clients. That sucks, because I love Flash, but it's not where the momentum is moving. People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. any articles , facts, that i can point them to that may change their minds? thanks artur ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Echoing Chris from earlier, I hope nobody here feels compelled to argue for Flash when it's not the best fit for a project. As far as a stock response to an objection to Flash, perhaps a question What features do you want the product to have and where and for who do you need it to run? Based on the answer you can confidently say Flash is the only reasonable technology or not. For the foreseeable future, HTML5 is NOT going to be the best technology for the most web apps --- most will need to run in a variety of web browsers, so Flash or HTML/CSS/JavaScript - iPhones and iPads notwithstanding. _ _ _ Erik Mattheis Senior Web Developer Minneapolis T 952 346 6610 C 612 377 2272 Weber Shandwick Advocacy starts here. PRWeek Global Agency Report Card 2009 - Gold Medal Winner The Holmes Report Global Agency of the Year PR News Agency of the Year -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Boerner, Brian J Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:49 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Everyone move to Hollywood! ;^) Does anyone on this list have a decent stock response we could all use? I don't. Let's be realistic. Coming up with rationale for using Flash as development platform is tougher than it used to be by far... ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? wording should be installed to work *AS* a browser. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. I don't see how that would improve anything - instead of people installing plugins in browsers they already have, they'd have to install a new browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? The AIR runtime itself needs to be installed, and your AIR apps need to be installed on top of that. But once they're installed, you don't need a browser. It includes Webkit, which is the engine powering Chrome and Safari. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I noticed something interesting, and perhaps relevant, a couple of days ago. Google Docs and Google Apps is going to stop supporting older Browsers, like IE 6, on March 1. I understand the move is to promote HTML5. I don't believe Flash is going away soon either. There are too many sites out there that use Flash, including the one I'm working on, www.poptropica.com. We're basically a big Flash site, supported by the usual HTML, JavaScript, PHP, and the like. I think somebody else mentioned the fact that Disney uses Flash extensively (they do). It would be prohibitively expensive to redo all their apps in another language. I'm not retiring for another 5-6 years, and I expect to be a Flash programmer for the rest of my career. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? I was mostly kidding, but Adobe AIR does have a web browser control so you can make an app that has web page inside it. There are limitations to it of course, like I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:51 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Air is an application just like a browser. You can pull HTML documents into an AIR app as well. So, yes, if someone wanted to make an App that was a browser, I don't see why they couldn't. AIR does not need a browser to run. Its like starting up any program on your pc or mac. Nathan Mynarcik Interactive Web Developer nat...@mynarcik.com 254.749.2525 www.mynarcik.com -Original Message- From: Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:51:25 To: Flash Coders Listflashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Well yeah, but I mean an app like Safari or FireFox or IE, but it has flash and all its capabilities already in it. No need to install flash, because its a flash browser. Forgive me if I am unaware of what air actually is, but doesn't it still have to be installed to work with a browser? Karl On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I say its time for a Flash browser. I thought that was called AIR. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Karl DeSaulniers Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash Hello, I usually sit back and let the experts chum these out, but I have to say one thing.. I say its time for a Flash browser. No more installing plugins, no more yellow line around your swf, and no more relying on another browser to run flash. Just create a flash based browser and you take flash to another level and another market. All you have to worry about is creating it to run on multiple platforms. You can create your own security on the browser to coincide with iPods, iPads, iPlops whatever.. like combining air + flashplayer as a OS app Once users/clients figure out that they can have their cake and eat it too, you'll have them coming by the hordes and there wont be anything anyone can do. Oh, well, except catch up.. :) +1 Flash for ever! Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Hi Dave, On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Dave Watts wrote: I don't see how that would improve anything - instead of people installing plugins in browsers they already have, they'd have to install a new browser. I don't see anything wrong with introducing a new browser that would work right off the bat. I currently have about 3 to 5 browsers already because things don't work on just one. The AIR runtime itself needs to be installed, and your AIR apps need to be installed on top of that. But once they're installed, you don't need a browser. It includes Webkit, which is the engine powering Chrome and Safari. I see. But for the average user, having a browser that they don't have to program, seems a bit easier and user friendly then even the browser/plugin routine we all enjoy currently. But like I said, it was just a thought. Thanks for the input. Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Oh really! Wow that seems a bit odd. On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:58 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
For those who haven't seen it yet http://www.gskinner.com/blog/archives/2010/02/my_thoughts_on.html Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Oh really! Wow that seems a bit odd. Not really, because AIR can run Flash directly, rather than within a browser. You don't need Flash within your browser within Flash. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Basically, I was thinking of an app like say safari, that had the flashplayer and air app already part of the app and it handled all the other web standard languages as well. Being a power-house for internet browsing that eliminated any reason for a client to say na I dont like flash or they say flash is dead. If flash had its own browser that handled flash and air BEAUTIFULLY, and handled the other HTML languages just as well if not better than the apps out there, then flash will have made itself a nice niche to grow in and I don't see it being any type of issue for people to migrate to using just that browser. I would bet money it would blow up.. sry for the slang. On Feb 3, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Nathan Mynarcik wrote: Air is an application just like a browser. You can pull HTML documents into an AIR app as well. So, yes, if someone wanted to make an App that was a browser, I don't see why they couldn't. AIR does not need a browser to run. Its like starting up any program on your pc or mac. Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
It does but the real irony is that the flash object displayed in a web page inside air is embeded inside the air runtime(instance of flash running inside of air). If that description really makes sense. The uh... runtime inside the runtime scenario. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Oh really! Wow that seems a bit odd. On Feb 3, 2010, at 3:58 PM, Merrill, Jason wrote: I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
That makes sense. So if I had an air app and I wanted it to say display another persons flash website, it will do this like a regular web browser? On Feb 3, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Dave Watts wrote: Not really, because AIR can run Flash directly, rather than within a browser. You don't need Flash within your browser within Flash. Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
That almost made my head spin, but I think I got it. :) On Feb 3, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Bob Wohl wrote: It does but the real irony is that the flash object displayed in a web page inside air is embeded inside the air runtime(instance of flash running inside of air). If that description really makes sense. The uh... runtime inside the runtime scenario. Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Not really, because AIR can run Flash directly, rather than within a browser. You don't need Flash within your browser within Flash. Uh, you do if you are using the HTML control to have a section of your AIR app act as a browser. You don't want to miss out on the whole web experience inside that window. What if you wanted a section of your AIR app that showed a Web site that used Flash elements within it? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:10 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Oh really! Wow that seems a bit odd. Not really, because AIR can run Flash directly, rather than within a browser. You don't need Flash within your browser within Flash. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
In my experience, it's been several years since I've had to think about providing alternate content to anything but search engines, the player penetration has been so high for target audiences it hasn't made sense to worry about. The two exceptions being when something has to be 508 compliant or when the target audience is people who work in the medical field - and my perception is that most web browsers that don't have Flash are in hospitals. _ _ _ Erik Mattheis Senior Web Developer Minneapolis T 952 346 6610 C 612 377 2272 Weber Shandwick Advocacy starts here. PRWeek Global Agency Report Card 2009 - Gold Medal Winner The Holmes Report Global Agency of the Year PR News Agency of the Year -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Murphy Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:33 PM To: 'Flash Coders List' Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash It may be helpful to discuss with clients something that we should always be doing when developing Flash web apps anyway; alternative content. And I mean giving the non-Flash user something more than just a link to download the Flash plugin. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
IE7 and IE8 are a far cry from any sort of HTML5 support. I don't think it's to support it at all, it's just to make the developer's job less miserable (considering IE6 is a small part of their audience and it's on the way out anyway). Here's something everyone has to keep in mind: even if the HTML5 standard was finished, and if *all* browsers had versions with full HTML5 support *today*, it'd still take around 8 years for that to be feasible on commercial projects, given the pace browser penetration usually follows (IE6 was released 8.5 years ago and it's still used by around 13% of the users*). Add to that the fact that the HTML5 groups are still fighting over codec support, nothing's ratified yet, and you begin to see why anyone saying HTML5 will replace Flash anytime soon is out of their damn minds. As developers we should not be emotionally attached to a platform and refuse change. But at the same time, I work in the real world and like to look at solid data; and the data says using HTML5 today is a pipe dream unless you want problems with cross-browser development to achieve a ~6% user penetration. If you wanna convince clients, give them the numbers. Zeh [*] http://www.statowl.com/web_browser_usage_by_version.php?limit[]=ielimit[]=firefoxlimit[]=safarilimit[]=chromelimit[]=operalimit[]=netscape On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Kerry Thompson al...@cyberiantiger.bizwrote: I noticed something interesting, and perhaps relevant, a couple of days ago. Google Docs and Google Apps is going to stop supporting older Browsers, like IE 6, on March 1. I understand the move is to promote HTML5. I don't believe Flash is going away soon either. There are too many sites out there that use Flash, including the one I'm working on, www.poptropica.com. We're basically a big Flash site, supported by the usual HTML, JavaScript, PHP, and the like. I think somebody else mentioned the fact that Disney uses Flash extensively (they do). It would be prohibitively expensive to redo all their apps in another language. I'm not retiring for another 5-6 years, and I expect to be a Flash programmer for the rest of my career. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I've found that when I break down the options (because I don't care, I'll do it in Ajax) by project requirements - Flash is often the better choice, from a cost benefit angle - as well as enabling a few more things than HTML is even capable of. It seems easy to argue for Flash, if that's your goal: Flash does more, and often cheaper to develope for - better tools, more consistent cross platform, etc. HTML is limitted, has many tradeoffs between compatibility, and is inconsistent cross platforms (graceful degradation vs. progressive enhancement) - and some things simply can't be done - despite the buzz (HTML5 video, rich animation). There are other subtle things, that clients will eventually notice, and that will drive them back to Flash (text rendering can be an issue for clients, but it's not one they notice until the end of the probject). That said, HTML is going to become an option for an increasing portion of the kinds of work that Flash is currently used for. I think that's ok personally. Sometimes, a quick JS/CSS widget is all you need. Kevin N. On 2/3/10 11:55 AM, artur wrote: from my client ( an established design agency in NYC ): artur, I've been doing a lot of research and polling of colleagues. *Here's my takeaway:* - no one knows what's going on - flash developers I've spoken to all are saying it's no big deal, proceed with flash - all designers are making an abrupt shift away from flash, steering their clients as a result - clients are questioning flash even without prompting - media has called for the death of it I think the answer is that Flash will need to change ASAP, or else I can't recommend it without looking like an ignoramus to clients. That sucks, because I love Flash, but it's not where the momentum is moving. People still look at it as non SEO friendly. they now want to do all future sites in html/css/jquery - powered by WPress or Joomla/Drupal. any articles , facts, that i can point them to that may change their minds? thanks artur ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I'm going to chime in to say this current tide reminds me of the hubbub that rose up when this article was written: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html The article's title: Flash is 99% bad. It was published 10 years ago. We've survived and evolved. Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
The Back button does not work. If you navigate within a Flash object, the standard backtracking method takes you out of the multimedia object and not, as expected, to the previous state. has he/she ever tried the swfaddress ? I've done that and it works with the back and the forth button. the rest of the article looks like the not to do list for flash designers. personally I've overpass the intros, using animated backgrounds now, they look nice most of the time :) and there is always the warning or advice page in the index (this site has flash, if you don't have the plug-in installed click here to download or got to the html version) more versions more hours for us, more pay...my two cents. Gus On Feb 3, 2010, at 6:38 PM, Brian Mays wrote: I'm going to chime in to say this current tide reminds me of the hubbub that rose up when this article was written: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html The article's title: Flash is 99% bad. It was published 10 years ago. We've survived and evolved. Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
In 2000 when the article was written there was no such thing as swfaddress, or swfobject. Point being, everything this article criticized ended up being addressed either by Adobe or developers creating solutions for those issues. The uprising that we're seeing the last few days is very similar to the uprising we saw when this article was put out. Just as people fall down and worship Steve Jobs today people fell down and worshipped Jakob Nielssen in 2000. If he said, it was gospel. It caused a lot of ruckus and for YEARS was the sole piece that many people would use when deriding Flash. But we made it through that by proving that Flash was up to the task, and moreso that we as developers were up to the task. Brian On 2/3/10 6:02 PM, Gustavo Duenas gdue...@leftandrightsolutions.com wrote: The Back button does not work. If you navigate within a Flash object, the standard backtracking method takes you out of the multimedia object and not, as expected, to the previous state. has he/she ever tried the swfaddress ? I've done that and it works with the back and the forth button. the rest of the article looks like the not to do list for flash designers. personally I've overpass the intros, using animated backgrounds now, they look nice most of the time :) and there is always the warning or advice page in the index (this site has flash, if you don't have the plug-in installed click here to download or got to the html version) more versions more hours for us, more pay...my two cents. Gus ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
well I'm a flash designer now, as I was graphic designer in the past, same way I was an artist, illustrator and copy writer before that, I think you can always learn new things and new tricks. My point is the guy from the blog is right if Flash disappears, there is always something else to learn maybe with the same level of animation, creativity and interactivity as flash...I don't know but my hint is that Flash has been tried to be let down in the past and yet we are in the 2010 and there is a lot of interactive agencies, based on flash. that means something Mr. Jobs...but I'm a still loving macs...or hackingtosh my next garage project. cya. Gus On Feb 3, 2010, at 6:38 PM, Brian Mays wrote: I'm going to chime in to say this current tide reminds me of the hubbub that rose up when this article was written: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html The article's title: Flash is 99% bad. It was published 10 years ago. We've survived and evolved. Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
I have made a very basic browser as an AIR app (just to test it out) and it definitely displays flash sites. Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:10:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash From: dwa...@figleaf.com To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com I don't think it supports Flash which is ironic. Oh really! Wow that seems a bit odd. Not really, because AIR can run Flash directly, rather than within a browser. You don't need Flash within your browser within Flash. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders _ Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
Just as people fall down and worship Steve Jobs today people fell down and worshipped Jakob Nielssen in 2000. ... wait... I thought, as Flash developers, we were morally obligated to worship Hillman Curtis back then ;-) Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] and now..CLIENT now hates Flash
on other thoughts , I've always loved Hillman Curtis, the agency I mean, still straight though. Flash is still the best way to create cheap and creatives animations for the web... still unbeatable. Gus On Feb 3, 2010, at 7:29 PM, Jer Brand wrote: Just as people fall down and worship Steve Jobs today people fell down and worshipped Jakob Nielssen in 2000. ... wait... I thought, as Flash developers, we were morally obligated to worship Hillman Curtis back then ;-) Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
