Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
On 17 Nov 2008, at 06:38, Pooyan McSporran wrote: I've tried FlightGear-cvs-bin-20081116.dmg on my 24 iMac but it crashes. Here are the relevant parameters: - CPU is an Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.33 GHz, with 2GB of RAM - GPU is NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT (not a 7300!) with 256MB of VRAM - OS is Mac OS X 10.5.5 The crash log is available, I can email it to you if you like (it's a bit too long to attach in the mailing list). But I've pasted the important bit below. Let me know if you'd like me to try anything different (direct email is ok). Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x2258a008 Crashed Thread: 0 Thread 0 Crashed: 0 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x02a267b0 gldUpdateDispatch + 138224 1 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x02a2751a gldUpdateDispatch + 141658 2 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x029ec215 gldAllocVertexBuffer + 25909 3 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x029ee9c5 gldAllocVertexBuffer + 36069 4 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x029f01d6 gldGetTextureLevel + 2534 5 GLEngine0x0173ca14 gleGenMipmaps + 132 6 GLEngine0x016146bc glTexImage2D_Exec + 1116 7 libGL.dylib 0x94c2f237 glTexImage2D + 87 8 org.OpenSceneGraph.osg 0x008474af osg::Texture::applyTexImage2D_load(osg::State, unsigned int, osg::Image const*, int, int, int) const + 2655 9 org.OpenSceneGraph.osg 0x0084d7c8 osg::Texture2D::apply(osg::State) const + 2400 This is the 7300 hardware-mip-mapping crash, so we need to widen the GL driver check to include all 7000 series nvidia chipsets on Mac, I would guess. It's good that 8000 series chips are apparently unaffected. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
On 16 Nov 2008, at 18:07, Tim Moore wrote: On Linux you might think that we could blow this off and depend on the distributions' OpenSceneGraph package, but this is not practical. OpenSceneGraph releases come fast and furious; we will be depending on OSG 2.8, and (for example) my distribution of choice is still supplying 2.2. So we need to supply to proper version. In the past I've worked on binary distributions for various GL-based projects on Linux, one using VTK and one using OGRE. In both cases we ended up shipping libstdc++ as well - in order to have a chance at portability, the only externals you can rely on need to have C linkage, not C++ linkage. It is possible to make C++ dependencies work, but it seems to complicate things unduly, whereas shipping the libstdc++ that the binaries were built with is easy. Maybe this situation has improved recently, however - my knowledge of this is currently two years old. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
On Monday 17 November 2008 09:20:14 James Turner wrote: In the past I've worked on binary distributions for various GL-based projects on Linux, one using VTK and one using OGRE. In both cases we ended up shipping libstdc++ as well - in order to have a chance at portability, the only externals you can rely on need to have C linkage, not C++ linkage. It is possible to make C++ dependencies work, but it seems to complicate things unduly, whereas shipping the libstdc++ that the binaries were built with is easy. Maybe this situation has improved recently, however - my knowledge of this is currently two years old. AFAIK libstdc++ is in LSB nowadays, so the situation should be better. On 16 Nov 2008, at 18:07, Tim Moore wrote: On Linux you might think that we could blow this off and depend on the distributions' OpenSceneGraph package, but this is not practical. OpenSceneGraph releases come fast and furious; we will be depending on OSG 2.8, and (for example) my distribution of choice is still supplying 2.2. So we need to supply to proper version. To me it sounds like making sure that more recent OSG packages are available for these distros is the way to go. With the openSUSE build service, it's very easy to build and provide packages even for distributions you don't have yourself. I'd say it's definitely worth a look: https://build.opensuse.org/ Stefan signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
On 16 Nov 2008, at 23:07, Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: - Crash on Mac Pro (crash report from James Turner, waiting further feedback from him). About to test the binary build, the results with my own build are depressing - something is definitely altering the RTTI information. I was going to say 'corrupting' but it seems very consistent. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
On 17 Nov 2008, at 08:17, James Turner wrote: - Crash on Mac Pro (crash report from James Turner, waiting further feedback from him). About to test the binary build, the results with my own build are depressing - something is definitely altering the RTTI information. I was going to say 'corrupting' but it seems very consistent. Binary build works for me, though precipitation is doing something very, very odd that is killing frame-rates. Need to test on a second machine and then I'll post a proper report with some screenshots. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
Hi, As far as I'm concerned, I prefer a simple INSTALL file where I find the dependance : OSG 2.6.0 plib 1.8.5 etc... For the Linux distribution where the good release isn't present, we can't provide a new package built by the FG community. To day, I have my own package for OSG and PLIB. And of course a FG/SG releaes has to be used with an official release of OSG, Plib, etc... (and don't use a CVS/SVN devel) I can build also FG / SG packages : simgear-cvs_20081117_i386.deb simgear-dev_20081117_i386.deb Otherwise, we will link all lib in static with FG/SG (OSG, plib, libc... kernel ?) Regards, Nicolas On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:07:16 +0100, Tim Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As thoughts are turning towards a release, I wanted to bring up a couple of things. This time we are depending on libraries -- OpenSceneGraph -- that are not usually built statically. They are built for dynamic linking, and libraries that implement data file loading are loaded and linked on demand according to the file extension of the loaded model. OpenSceneGraph can be linked statically, but this seems to cause people problems -- from what I can see on the osg-users mailing list -- and would lose some of the model-loading flexibility we get for free with OSG. So, I recommend we ship the dynamically linked libraries with our binary releases and resign ourselves to doing what's necessary to make this work when FlightGear is installed. On Linux, I think it is easiest to have a front-end script that will set the proper library path to pick up these libraries. On Linux you might think that we could blow this off and depend on the distributions' OpenSceneGraph package, but this is not practical. OpenSceneGraph releases come fast and furious; we will be depending on OSG 2.8, and (for example) my distribution of choice is still supplying 2.2. So we need to supply to proper version. I'm happy to punt Windows and Mac issues to people who are knowledgeable about that. For Linux, should we try to build a binary release to an LSB standard? http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/lsb Thanks, Tim - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Traffic Manager II
On Nov 16, 2008, at 1:17 PM, Durk Talsma wrote: On Sunday 16 November 2008 20:34:48 Heiko Schulz wrote: Small? I think people with lower computer perfomance will have problems- but there is always --proportion=1.0 Ah yes, the one file I committed does contain the singlemost largest operator at EHAM. The sample is small in the sense that I checked in data from only one airline. But, my experience is that you need to have a fairly large set already, if you want to see any action at all, hence my choice to commit the KLM files. The proportion property should still work to limit the amount of loaded aircraft, although I haven't checked that very closely. Will have a look later. But looks great! If we could get the AI/ATC interactions work with voice (like ATIS) it would be much more great! I know that some people have successfully streamed the text messages to the festival speech generator. That's still something that I would like to try. hi. As being one of the only blind female pilots in here voice on that part of the towercommunication would be a good idea instead of as it is now using the synth for it . However there is one thing. If we should have that one would have to make all the words for it and it would have to be called each time as it is for ATIS. It is not a bad idea at all just saying :) As for streaming text to speach i do that all the time with a lot of the instruments dme, vor, gps, rpm for the engine, throttle, heading altitude ground view and so on. Okies when i started in here i had AndersG and Jester helping me making it work that way that it streamed it to the speach that is in my mac but the selution was simply not good and responsive enough. I ended up installing a free speach that i also use on my windows box... could we forget i admitted that ? It really did not work in a fast and mature way til i did. So 2 things are important if you want ot use speach on flightgear. 1: what speach do you like which one can your brain handle at over 370 words pr minute and yes it sometimes is that hectic round ksfo, cause of all the pilots chittering . 2 how much memory does the speach use from your computer ? well i started with alex for mac and as much as i adore him he was simply not good enough for the task, i guess the fact that i fly from a mac book air did not help metters either :) I just found eham for some days ago. thanks for a nice place to fly !:) /sandi I suggest using ATC insted using mibs ;-) Ah, good suggestion. Will give it a try. :-) Very nice all that- though I have problems running the perl script on win32. But though it seems that we get with your patch a realistic dense of AI-traffic! To stick to the perl philosophy: There's probably more than one way... ...to convert traffic data to xml. Admittedly, my perl scripts were a bit of a quick hack to get stuff converted quickly. I shouldn't be a problem at all to write a little utility that would do the conversion in another language. Theoretically, it should be possible to run perl in cygwin. It's probably a little heavy to install cygwin, just to run perl, but it should work nevertheless. -For a better MD11/ DC10 KLM-Model and other models -have a look into the current Shared-models package! Ah, thanks! I didn't know they were released already. I'll have a look. Now, it's just too bad that Northwest stopped operating the DC10... Cheers, Durk - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
Hi Pooyan, Nice to hear from you again. As James said, The crash was caused probably by driver bug related to hardware mipmapping. I'll fix this until the next snapshot release. A good news is that you don't have to wait until the next release. Since I applied my own patch to mac version so you can disable hardware mipmapping for avoiding this crash. Try the following commands (using /Applciations/Utilities/Terminal.app): cd /Applications/FlightGear.app/Contents/Resources export OSG_GL_EXTENSION_DISABLE=GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap;GL_EXT_framebuffer_object ./fgfs.sh --aircraft=some aircraft --airport=some airport you can also add the second command to fgfs.sh (right before calling fgfs) so you don't have to type these every time. Tat On Nov 17, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Pooyan McSporran wrote: 2008/11/17 Tatsuhiro Nishioka [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks for the report. I really appreciate it. I'm also glad that it works on GeForce 8800!! Tatsuhiro, I've tried FlightGear-cvs-bin-20081116.dmg on my 24 iMac but it crashes. Here are the relevant parameters: - CPU is an Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.33 GHz, with 2GB of RAM - GPU is NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT (not a 7300!) with 256MB of VRAM - OS is Mac OS X 10.5.5 The crash log is available, I can email it to you if you like (it's a bit too long to attach in the mailing list). But I've pasted the important bit below. Let me know if you'd like me to try anything different (direct email is ok). Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x2258a008 Crashed Thread: 0 Thread 0 Crashed: 0 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x02a267b0 gldUpdateDispatch + 138224 1 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x02a2751a gldUpdateDispatch + 141658 2 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x029ec215 gldAllocVertexBuffer + 25909 3 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x029ee9c5 gldAllocVertexBuffer + 36069 4 com.apple.GeForceFXGLDriver 0x029f01d6 gldGetTextureLevel + 2534 5 GLEngine0x0173ca14 gleGenMipmaps + 132 6 GLEngine0x016146bc glTexImage2D_Exec + 1116 7 libGL.dylib 0x94c2f237 glTexImage2D + 87 8 org.OpenSceneGraph.osg 0x008474af osg::Texture::applyTexImage2D_load(osg::State, unsigned int, osg::Image const*, int, int, int) const + 2655 9 org.OpenSceneGraph.osg 0x0084d7c8 osg::Texture2D::apply(osg::State) const + 2400 - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
Hi, For all, I made a small package with the textures I used in the video- there are more to come and more shaping of the clouds. You can take a look here: www.hoerbird.net/clouds_cumulus.zip Cheers HHS - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
Thanks for this - Atlas still a problem. Double clicking on Atlas returns in terminal: ... /Applications/FlightGear.app/Contents/Resources/Atlas ; exit; MyMac:~ richardhornby$ /Applications/FlightGear.app/Contents/Resources/ Atlas ; exit; dyld: Library not loaded: /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib Referenced from: /Applications/FlightGear.app/Contents/Resources/ Atlas Reason: image not found Trace/BPT trap logout ... and find on 'libpng' returns nothing. ? This is not stopping me from enjoying the release! Tks, R On 16 Nov 2008, at 23:48, Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: Hi Richard, Thanks for the report. I really appreciate it. I'm also glad that it works on GeForce 8800!! On Nov 17, 2008, at 8:26 AM, Richard Hornby wrote: One odd issue is that in video playback of the BO105 the blades are not turning and the aircraft carries its own shadow with it! This has something to do with either bo105 or playback feature. I'll check on it later. Plus still can't get ~ /.atlas.sh to work with Atlas even in latest version. atlas.sh is not at ~/ but at /Applications/FlightGear.app/Contents/ Resources/atlas.sh To run it, you can do so by: 1) Open /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app 2) type the following command on terminal. cd /Applications/FlightGear.app/Contents/Resources sh /atlas.sh # I guess I forgot to chmod 755 to atlas.sh sorry for that ;-) Okay, I'll leave my message so other users can catch this and give me feedbacks. Reports from 10.4 users are very welcome. I confirmed that the latest prebuilt package (as of 11/16) runs at least on: - MacBook Pro with Radeon X1600 (intel; 10.5.5) - MacBook with GMA X3100 (intel; 10.5.5) - iMac with GeForce7300GT (intel; 10.5.5) - iMac with ATI Radeon HD2400 (intel; 10.5.5) So in most of cases, it works fine but I still need to find the cause and workaround for each crash. Maybe the biggest problem is that it works fine on my machine. :-p So, I want many Mac users to give me feedbacks on the latest prebuilt flightgear/cvs. If some of you have Macs later than ppc/G4, please send me the following info: - name of your Mac (e.g. iMac) - CPU (e.g. Core 2 duo 2.1GHz) - GPU (e.g. ATI Radeon X1600) - OS version (e.g. OS X 10.5.5) - works or not (crash log and/or regular log if not) Tat - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] What happened to San Francisco ?
Frederic Bouvier wrote: surprisingly, the Oracle buildings didn't move : [...] but was added more recently in the base package Ok, I've now reverted the positions of your static Base Package models to the state of 20071212 (nobody else has been modelling in this area that early ;-) You're invited to comment wether they now have the 'feeling' of properness to you before I'm going to merge the changes to CVS - find the usual download package here: http://scenemodels.flightgear.org/download/w130n30.tgz Thanks for catching this issue ! Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: [ flightgear-Bugs-1888264 ] Documentation
Thomas Pl?mpe wrote: I'm not really using FlightGear and so am not too keen to spend a lot of time following this up, but as per request below I'm forwarding this to the devel mailing list in the hopes that that it's helpful to someone. Thanks a lot ! - changes applied you're invited to continue submitting updates to The Manual ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] TerraSync/SVN should be ready to use
Alex Perry wrote: You're still better off with SVN unless you routinely fly at least 3000 km of distance in each 10x10 tarball you download. Without going closer than 300 km to any other area already flown over. Aside from all these 'technical' implications, serving Scenery via SVN (or whichever revision management) has the striking appeal of allowing incremental updates to users' local Scenery without having to delay the respective changes to the next 'official' release cycle. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
2008/11/18 Tatsuhiro Nishioka [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As James said, The crash was caused probably by driver bug related to hardware mipmapping. [SNIP] Try the following commands (using /Applciations/Utilities/Terminal.app): [SNIP] That worked, thanks for the information. Looking forward to the final release! Thanks. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] release thoughts
Hi, On Nov 18, 2008, at 4:42 AM, Richard Hornby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for this - Atlas still a problem. Double clicking on Atlas returns in terminal: (snip) dyld: Library not loaded: /opt/local/lib/libpng12.0.dylib Referenced from: /Applications/FlightGear.app/Contents/Resources/ Atlas Reason: image not found Trace/BPT trap logout ... and find on 'libpng' returns nothing. Oops, my bad. Libpng must be linked as a static library, not a dynamic library..., or at least I need to add the dylib to the package. I'll fix this problem asap. Thanks for your report! One solution ATM is that you download macports and build libpng yourself, but it is way far inconvenient for most of users. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] traffic manager II
On Nov 16, 2008, at 1:17 PM, Durk Talsma wrote: On Sunday 16 November 2008 20:34:48 Heiko Schulz wrote: Small? I think people with lower computer perfomance will have problems- but there is always --proportion=1.0 Ah yes, the one file I committed does contain the singlemost largest operator at EHAM. The sample is small in the sense that I checked in data from only one airline. But, my experience is that you need to have a fairly large set already, if you want to see any action at all, hence my choice to commit the KLM files. The proportion property should still work to limit the amount of loaded aircraft, although I haven't checked that very closely. Will have a look later. But looks great! If we could get the AI/ATC interactions work with voice (like ATIS) it would be much more great! I know that some people have successfully streamed the text messages to the festival speech generator. That's still something that I would like to try. hi. As being one of the only blind female pilots in here voice on that part of the towercommunication would be a good idea instead of as it is now using the synth for it . However there is one thing. If we should have that one would have to make all the words for it and it would have to be called each time as it is for ATIS. It is not a bad idea at all just saying :) As for streaming text to speach i do that all the time with a lot of the instruments dme, vor, gps, rpm for the engine, throttle, heading altitude ground view and so on. Okies when i started in here i had AndersG and Jester helping me making it work that way that it streamed it to the speach that is in my mac but the selution was simply not good and responsive enough. I ended up installing a free speach that i also use on my windows box... could we forget i admitted that ? It really did not work in a fast and mature way til i did. So 2 things are important if you want ot use speach on flightgear. 1: what speach do you like which one can your brain handle at over 370 words pr minute and yes it sometimes is that hectic round ksfo, cause of all the pilots chittering . 2 how much memory does the speach use from your computer ? well i started with alex for mac and as much as i adore him he was simply not good enough for the task, i guess the fact that i fly from a mac book air did not help metters either :) I just found eham for some days ago. thanks for a nice place to fly !:) /sandi ps dont know why my first attempt did not go through first time . :)- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear in IVAO network
Dear Rob,
From your description it appears that I am one of those kids. A 43
year old kid mind you. I am always polite to others on the MP system. I
sometimes perform stunts in unusual aircraft and show off just for a
laugh. I demonstrate what can be achieved with practise. I push the
flight envelope on occasion. What I do as well though, is encourage the
use of FG and Linux through my usage. I help those kids who say how
do I fly a helicopter? learn to fly a helicopter. I remind the kids
that this a shared realm and that people aren't required to follow
orders. Most of the people on there are good folk and treat each other
respectfully. I would rather have the less-than-serious kids use
FlightGear than alternatives and rather kids than a bunch of stiffs
who just don't approve because of their personal mind set. I think that
if you need to have serious, trying to fly as realistically as
possible events, then go ahead and organise more of them and publish a
code of conduct for those attending. Who knows? you could have it as
often as weekly. Weekend flightschool/control tower practise anyone?
I'll turn up and make you proud!
On the subject of IVAO, I think that even entertaining the idea of
closing access to the FG-MP server for IVAO is the tail wagging the dog.
The connection to IVAO should be the exceptional case, not the general one.
Getting to know FlightGear was/is not an easy experience and at least
some benefit of the doubt should be afforded to those who obviously
aren't at your level of familiarity/usage or have a different attitude
to FG in general. I suppose what I am trying to say is that your idea of
what FG is, may or may not be at all like what I see it as. People need
to remember what the open part of open source implies and what free
spirit is about as well.
While I am here, I thank you all for FG. Because of FG, not only do I
have have a great simulator (free too) I have learned to use blender and
am a long way into a new model to hand over one day should it past
muster. I am even considering dusting off the old coding me and diving
into the guts. Such a great gift, is FG, that I feel the need to
contribute and learn more to be able to do so as well as the need to
encourage and help others use it.
cheers,
Dave McLoughlin.
(Woddy)
Rob Shearman, Jr. wrote:
I wrote:
It seems
that a large number (often, the majority) of FG-MP users are on the
network to mess around and socialize rather than participate in a
multi-aircraft scenario with any degree of realism.
Arnt wrote:
..my impression from what little I've seen here on this list,
(I haven't had time to join the fun), is our social MP
things are MP airshows and fly-ins, in the http://eaa.org/
and http://airventure.org/ style spirit.
..these events fits nicely into RL air traffic in RL and I see no
problems with IVAO's serious relism traffic servers joining our
MP servers, {...}
Those are the events that we organize, and in the forum these are
organized by a core group of mature, semi-serious aviators, who fly
these events for social reasons but attempt to fly reasonably
realistically throughout them.
But those you don't see on the list, but who are online on the MP
servers on a near-constant basis, are the kids (of variable age
range, no doubt) whose idea of social flying is EMERGENCY LANDING
EVERYBODY CLEAR THE RUNWAY@@@ or CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO
FLY?? and/or those that just loop around aimlessly seeking
attention or try to pull off something cool flying a 787 like it
were in an aerobatic display.
Given the former, I agree that this presents no problem working with
IVAO. How do we screen for the latter? Again I say that there would
have to be two FG-MP networks; one connected with IVAO and one that
isn't. Or, close FG-MP to only those who register for IVAO and plan
to follow its guidelines, leaving the kids to play solo, or else
privately set up their own FG-MP servers.
Cheers,
-R.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear in IVAO network
Dave, Thank you for saying what has been on my mind for some time after reading the previous posts about the kids. I too spend a great deal of time around KSFO and the kids, and I've taken the time to help and encourage many with their How do I fly a helicopter? questions. Yes, it makes me cringe a bit, and the chat box is a poor medium for lengthy explanations. Yes, most of the time it's a waste of time. But not always. Sometimes it pays off, and sometimes that person settles down or goes off and reads the how-tos and comes back days later with a real working knowledge of how to fly a helicopter. I like to think that a few of those kids have added to community, or at least added to themselves. There are many ways to enjoy FG. Not all of them involve serious flying. I find it disturbing to see 787's doing loops and rolls, but if there is no active ATC, who is to say they should not? I often fly the Su-37 in seemingly aimless loops. Why? Because I want attention from flying some absurdly fast and extreme aircraft? I fly it because my first few dozen attempts at flying it beat me and I determined to learn it. I fly it because it's fun to find its envelope-- just how low and slow can it go? I fly it because, briefly, in a virtual world, I feel something that a bird must feel. I cannot fly for real due to monetary and medical reasons. But I can fly virtually, and I can fly for free. I'm on the network to mess-around and socialize. By doing so I've met wonderful and creative people who I now consider my friends. Some pursue realism in their flights. Some fly for other reasons. They all come because they like something about aircraft or flying or flight sims, and all have been willing to help others learn. We sometimes encounter disruptive individuals, but they are few and usually do not stay long, and the experience on the whole remains vastly positive. Like Woddy, I've found FG to be a great gift that has occupied much of my time over the last year. I've learned a lot. Maybe one day I will submit a model. But that shouldn't matter. A community needs members and not all can participate on the same level and not all have the same skill or learning as others. But they may one day, and I hope the development community will encourage rather than screen. Cheers, -Gary Buckaroo Neely On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 9:57 PM, dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rob, From your description it appears that I am one of those kids. A 43 year old kid mind you. I am always polite to others on the MP system. I sometimes perform stunts in unusual aircraft and show off just for a laugh. I demonstrate what can be achieved with practise. I push the flight envelope on occasion. What I do as well though, is encourage the use of FG and Linux through my usage. I help those kids who say how do I fly a helicopter? learn to fly a helicopter. I remind the kids that this a shared realm and that people aren't required to follow orders. Most of the people on there are good folk and treat each other respectfully. I would rather have the less-than-serious kids use FlightGear than alternatives and rather kids than a bunch of stiffs who just don't approve because of their personal mind set. I think that if you need to have serious, trying to fly as realistically as possible events, then go ahead and organise more of them and publish a code of conduct for those attending. Who knows? you could have it as often as weekly. Weekend flightschool/control tower practise anyone? I'll turn up and make you proud! On the subject of IVAO, I think that even entertaining the idea of closing access to the FG-MP server for IVAO is the tail wagging the dog. The connection to IVAO should be the exceptional case, not the general one. Getting to know FlightGear was/is not an easy experience and at least some benefit of the doubt should be afforded to those who obviously aren't at your level of familiarity/usage or have a different attitude to FG in general. I suppose what I am trying to say is that your idea of what FG is, may or may not be at all like what I see it as. People need to remember what the open part of open source implies and what free spirit is about as well. While I am here, I thank you all for FG. Because of FG, not only do I have have a great simulator (free too) I have learned to use blender and am a long way into a new model to hand over one day should it past muster. I am even considering dusting off the old coding me and diving into the guts. Such a great gift, is FG, that I feel the need to contribute and learn more to be able to do so as well as the need to encourage and help others use it. cheers, Dave McLoughlin. (Woddy) Rob Shearman, Jr. wrote: I wrote: It seems that a large number (often, the majority) of FG-MP users are on the network to mess around and socialize rather than participate in a multi-aircraft scenario with any degree of realism. Arnt wrote: ..my impression from what
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear in IVAO network
Dave --
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying that FG's MP server
should hold itself to the high standards of realistic air-traffic and
air-traffic-control that IVAO strives for. In fact, I'm saying completely the
opposite -- that bridging the two networks at the server level would be a
mistake, because many of the users who log onto FG-MP are not aiming for that
level of realism, and that if such a bridge were created, those who were
seeking less-than serious interaction would have to look elsewhere.
I do, however, think it's rude when the kids try to get everyone to clear
the runway by shouting in all caps, or participate in other intentionally
annoying behavior for the purpose of attempting to impede or infringe on on
what someone else is doing, or otherwise expect that everyone exists to help
them when they have expended no effort to help themselves. Maybe you and I fly
at different times of the day, but I think I see this with more frequency than
what you are characterizing.
But I guess I used these extreme examples to illustrate my point, leading to
the obscuring of my main objection to bridging the two server networks (which
is apparently now a moot point, as I don't believe that's the route the
proposal is taking anymore). At any rate I apologize for the confusion.
Cheers,
-R.
Robert M. Shearman, Jr.
Transit Operations Supervisor,
University of Maryland Department of Transportation
also known as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:57:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear in IVAO network
Dear Rob,
From your description it appears that I am one of those kids. A 43
year old kid mind you. I am always polite to others on the MP system. I
sometimes perform stunts in unusual aircraft and show off just for a
laugh. I demonstrate what can be achieved with practise. I push the
flight envelope on occasion. What I do as well though, is encourage the
use of FG and Linux through my usage. I help those kids who say how
do I fly a helicopter? learn to fly a helicopter. I remind the kids
that this a shared realm and that people aren't required to follow
orders. Most of the people on there are good folk and treat each other
respectfully. I would rather have the less-than-serious kids use
FlightGear than alternatives and rather kids than a bunch of stiffs
who just don't approve because of their personal mind set. I think that
if you need to have serious, trying to fly as realistically as
possible events, then go ahead and organise more of them and publish a
code of conduct for those attending. Who knows? you could have it as
often as weekly. Weekend flightschool/control tower practise anyone?
I'll turn up and make you proud!
On the subject of IVAO, I think that even entertaining the idea of
closing access to the FG-MP server for IVAO is the tail wagging the dog.
The connection to IVAO should be the exceptional case, not the general one.
Getting to know FlightGear was/is not an easy experience and at least
some benefit of the doubt should be afforded to those who obviously
aren't at your level of familiarity/usage or have a different attitude
to FG in general. I suppose what I am trying to say is that your idea of
what FG is, may or may not be at all like what I see it as. People need
to remember what the open part of open source implies and what free
spirit is about as well.
While I am here, I thank you all for FG. Because of FG, not only do I
have have a great simulator (free too) I have learned to use blender and
am a long way into a new model to hand over one day should it past
muster. I am even considering dusting off the old coding me and diving
into the guts. Such a great gift, is FG, that I feel the need to
contribute and learn more to be able to do so as well as the need to
encourage and help others use it.
cheers,
Dave McLoughlin.
(Woddy)
Rob Shearman, Jr. wrote:
I wrote:
It seems
that a large number (often, the majority) of FG-MP users are on the
network to mess around and socialize rather than participate in a
multi-aircraft scenario with any degree of realism.
Arnt wrote:
..my impression from what little I've seen here on this list,
(I haven't had time to join the fun), is our social MP
things are MP airshows and fly-ins, in the http://eaa.org/
and http://airventure.org/ style spirit.
..these events fits nicely into RL air traffic in RL and I see no
problems with IVAO's serious relism traffic servers joining our
MP servers, {...}
Those are the events that we organize, and in the forum these are
organized by a core group of mature, semi-serious aviators, who fly
these events for social reasons but attempt to fly reasonably
realistically throughout them.
But those you don't see on the list, but who are online on the MP
