Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat format
Yea cool stuff Frederic! Although somehow stammering FPS? I could test with my
GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB, Intel core duo 8500 and compare to x-plane.
For SIRX (http://sirx.flightsimulatorcenter.com/aeroporti.aspx) and apt.dat 8.5
in general this looks like a good improvement to me?
--- On Wed, 3/24/10, Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr wrote:
From: Frederic Bouvier fredfgf...@free.fr
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat format
To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 11:30 PM
#yiv241533927 p {margin:0;}
- Tim Moore timoor...@gmail.com a écrit :
What about ROAM2 that combine big chunk and seamless joins without skirt.
This
is what I did in this (already posted) video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYH27KyUBk
It's pretty cool. It's not clear to me how much work on the CPU is happening
at run time. The hard part will be getting FlightGear to give up on
triangulated irregular networks (TINs).
Here, every tile (the numbered triangle in the video) has been computed once
before, and were stored in 16-bit monochrome png images, along with the
texture. At run time, the png is read and a single mesh (a single strip in
fact) of 65536 vertices is built. First version was creating btg files, but the
amount of storage need was insane and load time was worse.
-Fred
--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hey Joe! Where d'you want me to go with that pen in my hand? :-) Just tell me which pages you are translating, I'll then translate some others. Sorry, I will not be able to generate such a big output like ten pages a day or something, but many a little makes a mickle. Ciao, Adrian Am Mittwoch, den 24.03.2010, 17:53 +0100 schrieb Jörg Emmerich: I searched for a good, affordable FlightGear tutorial for my German friends - but was not very lucky. So I made up my mind to translate the FlightGear Standard getstart.pdf. Because translating that 218 pages may not be done in a couple of weeks I just want to make aware of that I started - so that we might avoid multiples of such a bigger task. As soon as I have a complete first draft i will make it accessible here for reviews etc. And especially provide suggested changes to the original to Stuart and or Martin. joe -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
-- From: James Turner zakal...@mac.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs On 24 Mar 2010, at 22:09, Vivian Meazza wrote: Bad news - works perfectly here on XP with cvs as of a few minutes ago! Checking to see if I can break it still though. I was using the Lightning to test my mach-calculations code earlier today (Mac, latest CVS code) and it seemed fine. James James, Vivian Thanks for the feedback. I will roll back the CVS to see if I can find when this bug first started. When the splash screen is replaced by the cockpit view I see this error, repeated 5 times: glLinkProgram Failed Program infolog: Fragment shader uses varying gl_FrontFacing but vertex shader does not write to it. To get past the already mentioned debug probelm at the start of this thread I have tried debugging by attaching the Visual Studio debugger to an already running Flightgear . I now get this: Unhandled exception at 0x3e814f0 in fgfs.exe: 0xC05: Access violation reading location 0x000. When I hit the Break button the debug pointer is at line 60 in osg\PrimitiveSet.cpp: else glDrawArrays(_mode,_first,_count); I have updated Osg to the latest SVN and the error remains. The same behaviour is on both my XP desktop and my Vista laptop. Finally, Vivian (or anyone else) , do you have any problems running Flightgear under Debug from the Visual Studio IDE? Alan -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
In my last post, I forgot to say that the Fgfs crash and debug message come when the engine reaches aprox 50% rpm. Alan -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Alan Teeder wrote -Original Message- From: [mailto:ajtee...@v-twin.org.uk] Sent: 25 March 2010 09:29 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs -- From: James Turner zakal...@mac.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs On 24 Mar 2010, at 22:09, Vivian Meazza wrote: Bad news - works perfectly here on XP with cvs as of a few minutes ago! Checking to see if I can break it still though. I was using the Lightning to test my mach-calculations code earlier today (Mac, latest CVS code) and it seemed fine. James James, Vivian Thanks for the feedback. I will roll back the CVS to see if I can find when this bug first started. When the splash screen is replaced by the cockpit view I see this error, repeated 5 times: glLinkProgram Failed Program infolog: Fragment shader uses varying gl_FrontFacing but vertex shader does not write to it. To get past the already mentioned debug probelm at the start of this thread I have tried debugging by attaching the Visual Studio debugger to an already running Flightgear . I now get this: Unhandled exception at 0x3e814f0 in fgfs.exe: 0xC05: Access violation reading location 0x000. When I hit the Break button the debug pointer is at line 60 in osg\PrimitiveSet.cpp: else glDrawArrays(_mode,_first,_count); I have updated Osg to the latest SVN and the error remains. The same behaviour is on both my XP desktop and my Vista laptop. Finally, Vivian (or anyone else) , do you have any problems running Flightgear under Debug from the Visual Studio IDE? Well - that narrows it down. Possibly a video driver issue? Or perhaps this is as simple as FG/SG OSG not properly up-to-date. I have seen something like this if I add the generate tag to a model shader. generate works fine in a terrain shader. However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. No problem with running FG under debug - although constructing a command line is a pain. Vivian -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
- Vivian Meazza a écrit : I have seen something like this if I add the generate tag to a model shader. generate works fine in a terrain shader. However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. What ? -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Frederic Bouvier - Vivian Meazza a écrit : I have seen something like this if I add the generate tag to a model shader. generate works fine in a terrain shader. However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. What ? What What? I haven't mentioned this before because I'm still investigating.. Lauri Peltonen also had a look and came up with an odd error which neither of us understood properly, but there is some indication that it depends on the order of the tags. Or it might be that my shaders are simply crap. Or are you querying the default shaders? Vivian -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
-- From: Vivian Meazza vivian.mea...@lineone.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:18 AM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs Frederic Bouvier - Vivian Meazza a écrit : I have seen something like this if I add the generate tag to a model shader. generate works fine in a terrain shader. However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. What ? What What? I haven't mentioned this before because I'm still investigating.. Lauri Peltonen also had a look and came up with an odd error which neither of us understood properly, but there is some indication that it depends on the order of the tags. Or it might be that my shaders are simply crap. Or are you querying the default shaders? Vivian At the moment I can´t roll back the CVS very far as the old version of SGClipGroup.hxx fails to compile with my SVN version of Osg . - RegisterRenderBinProxy is not a member of osgUtil I´m not very keen to roll back Osg as it takes so long to re-build. Alan -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
- Vivian Meazza a écrit : Frederic Bouvier - Vivian Meazza a écrit : I have seen something like this if I add the generate tag to a model shader. generate works fine in a terrain shader. However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. What ? What What? I haven't mentioned this before because I'm still investigating.. Lauri Peltonen also had a look and came up with an odd error which neither of us understood properly, but there is some indication that it depends on the order of the tags. Or it might be that my shaders are simply crap. Or are you querying the default shaders? I am just unaware of this kind of problems and it could have received more publicity than just an anecdote in a somewhat unrelated thread. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Frederic Bouvier - Vivian Meazza a écrit : Frederic Bouvier - Vivian Meazza a écrit : I have seen something like this if I add the generate tag to a model shader. generate works fine in a terrain shader. However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. What ? What What? I haven't mentioned this before because I'm still investigating.. Lauri Peltonen also had a look and came up with an odd error which neither of us understood properly, but there is some indication that it depends on the order of the tags. Or it might be that my shaders are simply crap. Or are you querying the default shaders? I am just unaware of this kind of problems and it could have received more publicity than just an anecdote in a somewhat unrelated thread. No one else is reporting it therefore this is most likely my own incompetence, and it's only in shaders that I have written myself. When I have shown that it isn't I will file a bug report. Vivian -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
I have rolled CVS back to 1 Feb, except for SGClipGroup.cxx and .hxx. These are the current ones to match with the SVN Osg. I have not rolled back Flightgear data as this takes for ever. Unfortunately Flightgear still crashes when I open up the Lightning´s engines. Perhaps the fault is within Osg. Alan -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Wiki link
Thanks, I had fixed one or two links but somehow missed the link in the menu. This will get fixed in the next round of web updates. Curt. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bob Faulkner wrote: Just a heads up to who controls it. (Curt?) The link to the wiki from the main website appears to be broken, and has been for some time. It links to: http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page when I believe simply linking to: http://wiki.flightgear.org would be adequate. -- Delusional Mail (http://www.delusionalmind.com) -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Alan, What graphics hardware are you running on? Turning off shaders should get you going for the moment. Then we'll figure out how to conditionalize the shader code for drivers that don't support gl_FrontFacing. Tim On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Alan Teeder ajtee...@v-twin.org.uk wrote: I have rolled CVS back to 1 Feb, except for SGClipGroup.cxx and .hxx. These are the current ones to match with the SVN Osg. I have not rolled back Flightgear data as this takes for ever. Unfortunately Flightgear still crashes when I open up the Lightning´s engines. Perhaps the fault is within Osg. Alan -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
On Tue, 2010-03-23 at 20:55 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: Geoff McLane schrieb: But his good work _IS_ being used, extensively - 1 left TOC 2 CSS design 3 XHTML 1.0 I have added a little more today... http://geoffair.net/fg/site including a bottom TOC - presently not quite the same as the left, but it will be... Geoff, I am actually not pointing to the work you did. And I am not pointing to your design elements. There does not seem any need to go totally Googly when all that Pete has done can be done to the current site, in an incremental page-by-page way... No. Once we have to finish this contradictory page-by-page way. It is not a problem of Googly or not. What Pete bring to us can run on every server - also without the Google API. The proposal from Pete includes a real change. His solution is a state-of-the-art Open Source Website and not a proprietary hand-driven Web-link-page with own standards. Pete makes use of code and standards which are open in any direction and which invites other developers to work on this project. He made a clever bridge to all the stuff around. And of course - his page can be maintained by every Webmaster. What he has done is that kind of simple and modern solutions which runs on every platform and with every front-end (and can -BTW- also integrate every hand-driven out-of-googly-style-html-page you want). Maybe he used the Google API to show a new track but I think he did not want to discuss about Google-Or-Not-To-Google. So what is the real reason that we are not using such professional contribution at all? Why are we going one step forward and then 10 miles backwards? - Yves I do not want to continue to labor the point on this, but one last try ;=)) As Pete asked back on Feb 13 - Who is the active developer... and he got an answer of sorts - maybe the name which can be read at the bottom of the main site page ;=)) You could also do a WHOIS search on the domain 'flightgear.org'... As far as I know, the English site is _NOT_ open to other maintainers, web-masters - full stop! And that includes the 'www' repository... But by the same token the site maintainer does read and watch for site suggestions, fixes, changes, etc... and acts upon them as time permits... as seen with the Wiki link fix in progress... So our _ONLY_ path is to make such suggestions, as Pete has done on the Google app/Django engine, and as I, using MS VWD, and others have done, and are continuing to do... as you know several of us have our own sites, or sub-sites _DEDICATED_ to FG... And we have the French, Portuguese, Japanese, Russian, (Spanish seems missing now?) sites - each of these are run using the 'technology' liked, preferred by the respective owners... php/wiki/CMS/whatever, be it by 'hand' or with a shovel ;=)) So what exactly are you asking? If you want to take over the main English site, or at least open it to other web-masters, then you can continue to press for that, but good luck! I will back the OWNER ;=)) Pete's example copied some pages from the current site, and it got some brief rave reviews, but it is VERY incomplete, so we do not know what he intends for the rest of the site pages... the rest of the links... my last count, of the www repo was over 200 pages, and it too seems missing some later updates (at least of about a week ago)... And he left out the Google ads. How is he going to fit these necessary evils into the site? Positioning and quantity? Ideas on doing this and maintaining his current very clean look, which I like, while keeping the ads prominent enough to be of some use, would be very, very welcome... He added some new things, which is great, like the mp server status, but assume this depends on the python to get information, so this may not be portable, but would certainly like to incorporate this in my example also, if possible... How to do it is the question? So I would encourage you, Pete and others, through collaboration with others, if desired, and/or through cvs/git usage, to continue in this very worthy endeavor... and I would certainly contribute, if given commit rights... Even if nothing is taken from it, it provides another flightgear information center... which is beneficial... but some ideas have been taken from it already, at least in my examples... Now whether using the Google advertising revenue toys is more 'professional' than what - a 'proprietary hand-driven Web-link-page with own standards' - is a mute point. Both produce 'web-link-pages' ;=)) Yes, Pete, we _ARE_ replicating work, but the more 'examples' the better it seems to me... We _DO_ want to encourage Curt to lift the site out of the 'so last century' as your nephew put it, but we should do that by encouragement, plentiful examples, good ideas, etc ;=)) So again, we should consider who OWNS the site, and fully RESPECT what he might want, and not INSIST on what we want to see... but at the
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi, just a remark, probably already know: Some parts of the getstart.pdf are in the wiki, which is partly translated to German. Best regards, Maik Adrian schrieb am 25.03.2010 08:44: Hey Joe! Where d'you want me to go with that pen in my hand? :-) Just tell me which pages you are translating, I'll then translate some others. Sorry, I will not be able to generate such a big output like ten pages a day or something, but many a little makes a mickle. Ciao, Adrian Am Mittwoch, den 24.03.2010, 17:53 +0100 schrieb Jörg Emmerich: I searched for a good, affordable FlightGear tutorial for my German friends - but was not very lucky. So I made up my mind to translate the FlightGear Standard getstart.pdf. Because translating that 218 pages may not be done in a couple of weeks I just want to make aware of that I started - so that we might avoid multiples of such a bigger task. As soon as I have a complete first draft i will make it accessible here for reviews etc. And especially provide suggested changes to the original to Stuart and or Martin. joe -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG - Helicopter FAA - AATD
Hello Christian, the helicopter flight model is very realistic, for my point of view it is the the most realistic flight model which is available for normal PC users. The setup of the configuration is a bit tricky, esp. for the auto-rotation, therefore it does not work realistic for most helicopters in flightgear, but the hornet (an autogyro) is simulated well in flightgear. The helicopters with the most realistic flightmodels in flightgear are: bo105 aircrane uh1 Best regards, Maik Christian Menge schrieb am 22.03.2010 13:39: Hi Developers, We are looking into the idea of creating an Helicopter (rotary) FAA AATD. Does anyone have any comments / thoughts about the quality of flight modeling for rotary wing aircraft in FlightGear? This is an important question as students must have the ability of practicing advanced maneuvers like auto-rotation and this can be a very complicated feature to model properly. Thanks! Christian FreedomWorks Inc. US: 609-858-2290 Canada: 905-228-0285 Fax: 347-296-3666 Email: christ...@freedomworks.ca www.FreedomWorks.ca www.freedomworks.ca -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linker problems
Not yet solved: libMain.a(main.o): In function `osg::Referenced::unref() const': /usr/local/include/osg/Referenced:194: undefined reference to `osg::Referenced::signalObserversAndDelete(bool, bool, bool) const' And many more of them. OSG is checked out from tag 2.9.7: http://www.openscenegraph.org/svn/osg/OpenSceneGraph/tags/OpenSceneGraph-2.9.7 Please assist. :) Roland On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 19:57 +0100, Roland Haeder wrote: Hi all, I still have linker problems. I use the following compiler and linker: - GCC 4.4.3-3 (Debian Unstable) - GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.20 I still got tons of these messages: --- libMain.a(main.o): In function `osg::Referenced::unref() const': /usr/local/include/osg/Referenced:194: undefined reference to `osg::Referenced::signalObserversAndDelete(bool, bool, bool) const' --- OSG is 2.9.7 can compiles without errors (no special options specified). SimGear is recent CVS (updated some minutes ago) and compiles: ./configure --with-jpeg-factory --prefix=/opt/ --with-osg=/usr/local FlightGear is also updated some minutes ago and compiles but does not link. ./configure --with-osg=/usr/local --with-eventinput --with-logging --enable-osgviewer --enable-sp-fdms --prefix=/opt/ --datarootdir=/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/data/ I use these special environment variables: -- declare -x CC=ccache gcc declare -x CXX=ccache g++ declare -x CXXFLAGS=-g -O0 -- As I found out with the help from Jester (strace), the linker seems to take the right lib but cannot link it. I already tried GCC 4.3.x but doesn't help. :( Please help me here. :) Regards, Roland [spam killed... :(] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linker problems
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Roland Haeder r.hae...@gmx.de wrote: Not yet solved: libMain.a(main.o): In function `osg::Referenced::unref() const': /usr/local/include/osg/Referenced:194: undefined reference to `osg::Referenced::signalObserversAndDelete(bool, bool, bool) const' And many more of them. OSG is checked out from tag 2.9.7: http://www.openscenegraph.org/svn/osg/OpenSceneGraph/tags/OpenSceneGraph-2.9.7 Please assist. :) It looks like your OSG libraries are out of sync with your header files. You might need to run ldconfig. Tim Roland On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 19:57 +0100, Roland Haeder wrote: Hi all, I still have linker problems. I use the following compiler and linker: - GCC 4.4.3-3 (Debian Unstable) - GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.20 I still got tons of these messages: --- libMain.a(main.o): In function `osg::Referenced::unref() const': /usr/local/include/osg/Referenced:194: undefined reference to `osg::Referenced::signalObserversAndDelete(bool, bool, bool) const' --- OSG is 2.9.7 can compiles without errors (no special options specified). SimGear is recent CVS (updated some minutes ago) and compiles: ./configure --with-jpeg-factory --prefix=/opt/ --with-osg=/usr/local FlightGear is also updated some minutes ago and compiles but does not link. ./configure --with-osg=/usr/local --with-eventinput --with-logging --enable-osgviewer --enable-sp-fdms --prefix=/opt/ --datarootdir=/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/data/ I use these special environment variables: -- declare -x CC=ccache gcc declare -x CXX=ccache g++ declare -x CXXFLAGS=-g -O0 -- As I found out with the help from Jester (strace), the linker seems to take the right lib but cannot link it. I already tried GCC 4.3.x but doesn't help. :( Please help me here. :) Regards, Roland [spam killed... :(] -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Tim I am seeing this on 2 machines. The desktop runs XP and has an NVIDEA FX 5200 card. The laptop runs Vista and is an Acer 5920 has Intel 965 video, with latest the drivers from Intel. (The Acer supplied driver had problems giving a few screen fulls of OpenGL errors on FG startup). Alan From: Tim Moore Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:21 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs Alan, What graphics hardware are you running on? Turning off shaders should get you going for the moment. Then we'll figure out how to conditionalize the shader code for drivers that don't support gl_FrontFacing. Tim -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Tim I should have been a bit clearer in my last post I was talking about FG crashing when I open up the Lightning Engines. I have tried turning off shades from the FG menu bar, but this does not come up until after the glFrontFacing errors so I have seen no change. This error seems to be present in many aircraft, not just the Lightning. Alan From: Tim Moore Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:21 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs Alan, What graphics hardware are you running on? Turning off shaders should get you going for the moment. Then we'll figure out how to conditionalize the shader code for drivers that don't support gl_FrontFacing. Tim -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linker problems
Hi Tim, It looks like your OSG libraries are out of sync with your header files. You might need to run ldconfig. Tim here is the full output of ldconfig -v: http://www.pastebin.org/123487 But it still outputs the same messages. :( Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linker problems
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Roland Haeder r.hae...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Tim, It looks like your OSG libraries are out of sync with your header files. You might need to run ldconfig. Tim here is the full output of ldconfig -v: http://www.pastebin.org/123487 But it still outputs the same messages. :( Your ldconfig output shows that your libraries are all from OSG 2.8.2... but the error message suggests that your headers are from OSG SVN. Tim Roland -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Alan Teeder Tim I should have been a bit clearer in my last post I was talking about FG crashing when I open up the Lightning Engines. I have tried turning off shades from the FG menu bar, but this does not come up until after the glFrontFacing errors so I have seen no change. This error seems to be present in many aircraft, not just the Lightning. Alan From: Tim Moore Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:21 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs Alan, What graphics hardware are you running on? Turning off shaders should get you going for the moment. Then we'll figure out how to conditionalize the shader code for drivers that don't support gl_FrontFacing. Unlikely, I know, but is this crash related to the afterburners? Vivian -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Maik Justus wrote: just a remark, probably already know: Some parts of the getstart.pdf are in the wiki, [...] Oh, are people really duplicating The Manual on the Wiki ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Yup, tested and I only get a crash if I use the afterburners, engines can be started just fine. Alan Teeder Tim I should have been a bit clearer in my last post I was talking about FG crashing when I open up the Lightning Engines. I have tried turning off shades from the FG menu bar, but this does not come up until after the glFrontFacing errors so I have seen no change. This error seems to be present in many aircraft, not just the Lightning. Alan From: Tim Moore Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:21 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs Alan, What graphics hardware are you running on? Turning off shaders should get you going for the moment. Then we'll figure out how to conditionalize the shader code for drivers that don't support gl_FrontFacing. Unlikely, I know, but is this crash related to the afterburners? Vivian -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Linker problems
Hi, ahh, I needed to remove all that old libs from /usr/local/lib/ and reinstalled it. After that I saw that the libs went to /usr/local/lib64/... :( I added it to ldconfig's config file, re-ran ldconfig and it finally worked. :) Thanks. Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Vivian Meazza - Vivian Meazza a écrit : Frederic Bouvier - Vivian Meazza a écrit : Frederic Bouvier - Vivian Meazza a écrit : I have seen something like this if I add the generate tag to a model shader. generate works fine in a terrain shader. However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. What ? What What? I haven't mentioned this before because I'm still investigating.. Lauri Peltonen also had a look and came up with an odd error which neither of us understood properly, but there is some indication that it depends on the order of the tags. Or it might be that my shaders are simply crap. Or are you querying the default shaders? I am just unaware of this kind of problems and it could have received more publicity than just an anecdote in a somewhat unrelated thread. No one else is reporting it therefore this is most likely my own incompetence, and it's only in shaders that I have written myself. When I have shown that it isn't I will file a bug report. If you are not so sure there is a bug, why are you saying : However as default you should not be using any model shader with generate. so my what ? Good night, -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Thanks for all the responses. I have done a lot more playing around this evening. It seems to be to do with generator/battery/external power switching. I can remove the problem by artificially setting a constant voltage on the master bus and inhibiting bus switching. Finding out whether this is due to the electrical switching logic or to some related effect in one of the aircraft systems is my next step. With the switching inhibited the afterburners seem OK. Are any other aircraft similarly affected? I am using the Lightning as a template for a model that I am developing, so I had problems when this fault suddenly appeared in my own development. Back checking to the original aircraft showed that for once it wasn't my stupid fault!. AFAIK the Lightning has been stable and unchanged for some time now. Alan -- From: Victhor victhor.fos...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:51 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs Yup, tested and I only get a crash if I use the afterburners, engines can be started just fine. Alan Teeder Tim I should have been a bit clearer in my last post I was talking about FG crashing when I open up the Lightning Engines. I have tried turning off shades from the FG menu bar, but this does not come up until after the glFrontFacing errors so I have seen no change. This error seems to be present in many aircraft, not just the Lightning. Alan From: Tim Moore Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:21 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs Alan, What graphics hardware are you running on? Turning off shaders should get you going for the moment. Then we'll figure out how to conditionalize the shader code for drivers that don't support gl_FrontFacing. Unlikely, I know, but is this crash related to the afterburners? Vivian -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site + MpServer Status
Geoff McLane wrote: He added some new things, which is great, like the mp server status, but assume this depends on the python to get information, so this may not be portable, but would certainly like to incorporate this in my example also, if possible... How to do it is the question? A server status feed is here, so you can fetch it with ajax, urlfetch, etc http://fg-online.appspot.com/feeds/ (and need to complete it when I have time - possibly this weekend) If you need help them let me know. Getting the feed is currently achieved with the following process. 1) cron fires off every minute to fetch this page http://mpmap01.flightgear.org/mpstatus/ 2) Python's BeautifulSoup rips out the server relay table 3) then stashes the data in memcached as a json string However, the MpStatus could be wired up to return data in xml + json as well ? So a call to http://mpmap01.flightgear.org/mpstatus/?format=json would return the data. This would be very useful. Who maintains mpmap01/mpstatus server? Pete ... goes to kind the mpstatus code -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Martin, Martin Spott schrieb am 25.03.2010 22:34: Maik Justus wrote: just a remark, probably already know: Some parts of the getstart.pdf are in the wiki, [...] Oh, are people really duplicating The Manual on the Wiki ? I don't know. But at least my two cents to The Manual (chapter A Helicopter Tutorial was copied from the Wiki to the manual.) Martin. Best regards, Maik -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] English Electric Lightning no longer runs
Alan Teeder Thanks for all the responses. I have done a lot more playing around this evening. It seems to be to do with generator/battery/external power switching. I can remove the problem by artificially setting a constant voltage on the master bus and inhibiting bus switching. Finding out whether this is due to the electrical switching logic or to some related effect in one of the aircraft systems is my next step. With the switching inhibited the afterburners seem OK. Are any other aircraft similarly affected? I am using the Lightning as a template for a model that I am developing, so I had problems when this fault suddenly appeared in my own development. Back checking to the original aircraft showed that for once it wasn't my stupid fault!. AFAIK the Lightning has been stable and unchanged for some time now. Hmm - some kind of Nasal issue then? Any kind of error message? Vivian -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Geoff McLane wrote: So again, we should consider who OWNS the site, and fully RESPECT what he might want, [...] I firmly object: The way how the web site is being managed is very contradictory to the nature of the entire project. I'm not advertizing anarchy here. As with every part of the project, maintaining the web site also requires some lead, but I don't see a reason why the web site - the layout as well as its technical basis - should be excluded from contributions to the project. Pete has shown to us a trial balloon and he's proven that his approach easily allows to aggregate and integrate the usual static web site with content which is being devlivered and/or pulled from remote sites. A pretty clever way of setting up such a site, without locking into nuisances like Flash or the like - I think it's the way to go. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Hi, I like to add that the Search button is linking to a page which uses the personalized Google search which is, of course, closed-source. If you like, you can replace that with YaCy [1] which allows you to setup an independent search engine which will only crawl your pages. You can also choose to contribute your searches to the global free-world index. If you don't have - let me guess here, please - ~512 MB or maybe at most 1 GB RAM left (YaCy needs some for storing URLs and so-called RWIs, Reversed Word Indexes) you can also ask KIT [2], or Karlsruhe Institute Of Technology, or better Liebl-Lab [3] for setting up you a search-portal. It can be fully integrated into your website, so not only changing the logo or colors is possible. If you like to get more, you can ask me or better in the forums [4]. Regards, Roland [1] http://yacy.net [2] http://www.kit.edu/english/ [3] http://liebel.fzk.de/ [4] http://www.yacy-forum.org/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Sponsorship letter idea
Dear Richard Branston, I'm sending this letter as an individual and am representing FlightGear, which is an Open Source Flight Simulator released under the General Public Licence GPL ie free and open source. I am speaking on behalf of the FlightGear team, comprising a bunch of people of all various talents and skills that make the virtual simulated flying fun and free for all. Indeed open skies. The n'th goal is towards making it as real world as possible. As your pilots, FlightGear has VOR, ILS, v1, v3, Vr, PMI, RVR, CAT3c etc and also mad stuff happening with metar's. The system is online, multilayer and is constantly moving forward at a steady pace as it has been for the last ten+ years. Its probably one of the oldest, successful and moving modern open source simulator. However, there are a few things that would make it more realistic, which is where you Richard, and your airline come in as an idea. == Legal Problem == We have a legal problem in that some of our aircraft designers and pilots want to use your logo's on the modeled Aircraft and in scenery. We understand that we are not allowed to do this, as respect as its your trademark, which is why its not included anywhere. So we end up making look alike versions.. sorry for the tongue in cheek. So what we'd ask is that you can give us some rights/permissions to use your logo/trademark/livery within the FlightGear sim. This does not necessarily means we will use it, or indeed want to have a problem of having to include. Its just we don't want to be sued for using it. == Virgin FlightGear CD== To check your livery is included, you'd actually need to see it's within a sim. As FlightGear is under the GPL license, anyone can knock off copies of FlightGear. This means you Richard, can for example give a free copy branded CD to passengers who want a Virgin Pilot CD. The Virgin Pilot CD, could have a working copy branded with your aircraft, but would need some resource to create. ==Problem From Above== The problem we'd have if you gave away a CD to everyone is that all of them would be online at one. Eg 2000+ virgin players.. For that we'd need some online MP servers, which would be dead easy to accomodate within your IT infrastructure. If your going to ask is this a virtual airline?, then its not. Your need to be the real virtual online airline. If the ideas tickles you then I would be glad to hear back. Kind Regards Peter Morgan for FlightGear.org -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Martin Spott wrote: Geoff McLane wrote: So again, we should consider who OWNS the site, and fully RESPECT what he might want, [...] I firmly object: The way how the web site is being managed is very contradictory to the nature of the entire project. I'm not advertizing anarchy here. As with every part of the project, maintaining the web site also requires some lead, but I don't see a reason why the web site - the layout as well as its technical basis - should be excluded from contributions to the project. this is getting quite frankly silly and stupid, this whole thread is as daft as one could get. so I'll be honest please note this is not personal or malicious.. My interests are in flightgear and thanks to Curt our BDFL. so Curt.. I cant code c++ but its one of your talents.. I can code CSS/html easily, but cant code c++ properly.. yet. Your a crap webcoder as I am a crap c++ coder. * the site needs to be modernized.. Just the markup and CSS would be 100% improvement. ie NO javascript. * We cant Incrementally improve the site. That is daft idea within the way you are coding. In c++ terms you are creating a class definition in each file instead of creating a header. In HTML its called a template. * some templating engine will be required upon machine with a scripting lang eg python or php * the pages = end points. need to be agnostic. I dont want /mpstatus.shtml or mpstatus.php or mpstatus.py. I want /mpstatus/ so end user does not know whats behind. eg mpstatus.asp * your html markup is wrong, it fails desperately and miserably. My 11 year olde nephew uses validation. You have to respect the change to CSS. And that is a dark art also to some respects until a master. but you fail miserably. * However its noted that using javascript templates would be cool 90% last century, now 1% rating. * just delegate it, then your problem will be shouting at me or others to fix things instead of having to do it yourself. Indeed some of the stuff need to be automated more. * Curt, once its converted to CSS, you should be having more fun playing with design concepts... * You need to be more of the Dictator in the BDFL; like an empror, go to bed, and wake up with things done... but keep you clothes on ;-)) * I dont want to be 100% in control either. I want an environment where its maintained by a few babysitters and developers. Guess the whole ball is in your court. so pick it up the ball and, write python or php on it then hit it back .. hard.. like bjorn borjk.. sorry curt rant ends Pete -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Hello all, the problem on those CMS systems (python-written and PHP-written likewise) is that they sometimes have security holes where a cracker can more or less easily own www.flightgear.org and put his Owned by some-fool-cracker message in there. I think, this is why someone suggested that Google thing here because then Google needs to take care about such things as fixing security holes and installing updates. That is for sure a good reason to outsource hosting of your project. But like Curt stated before: This has a very big downside, like every medal has (remember, medals have two sides...) a backside. :( And that one is also very clear: Do we, no better does Curt want to put his project into the hand of Google who offers a proprietary website engine? And yes, the main page does fail passing the HTML test [1], and upgrading it to XHTML might also be a nice option to think about (4.01 is getting old in these days). So because of the domain flightgear.org belongs to Curt, he decides and we have to take it as he decides. :) And I think he is smart enough to not install the first best found CMS and next day, the side says the owned-by-fool-cracker message... ;-) My 2 cents for this. Regards, Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Na, I didn't solve [1]. Sorry for double email. :( [1]: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.flightgear.orgcharset=%28detect+automatically% 29doctype=Inlinegroup=0 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Roland Haeder wrote: Hello all, the problem on those CMS systems (python-written and PHP-written likewise) is that they sometimes have security holes where a cracker can more or less easily own www.flightgear.org and put his Owned by some-fool-cracker message in there. Please clarify: What you are suggesting is that * php and python are a cms * and that they have security holes. * This allow me to take over either the server itself * or change DNS entry * above is everyone's wish. I think, this is why someone suggested that Google thing here because then Google needs to take care about such things as fixing security holes and installing updates. That is for sure a good reason to outsource hosting of your project. Is thats the Google AppEngine then yes, but its the same as ANY host, including the server under your bed, regarding security. What is the safest place. When did you last change the lock's on you garden shed? But like Curt stated before: This has a very big downside, like every medal has (remember, medals have two sides...) a backside. :( And that one is also very clear: Do we, no better does Curt want to put his project into the hand of Google who offers a proprietary website engine? Please explain more about this proprietary website engine? Do you work for Microsoft? That is my guess and I hope you are not using ANYTHING proprietary browser to express upon. Also can you please host for free a system whereby I can hit it as 3 million a month == once a second, and accommodate a million of those hits in one day = slashdot? That means u need globally distributed with memcahe? NO you cant.. so stop talking about shit your don't understand, until you've researched the problem more and also having actually experienced it. And yes, the main page does fail passing the HTML test [1], and upgrading it to XHTML might also be a nice option to think about (4.01 is getting old in these days). Get a life!! the xhtml group is disbanded. Job is/was done and spec completed. That current spec is html5; that where its at, are you using a modern browser with css3..? please dump ie6 and netscape now and update to firefox or opera. So because of the domain flightgear.org belongs to Curt, he decides and we have to take it as he decides. :) And I think he is smart enough to not install the first best found CMS and next day, the side says the owned-by-fool-cracker message... ;-) We don't really know what goes on in curt's head; you are assuming as heresay. My 2 cents for this. Regards, Roland my tuppence pete -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Google App Engine
Advantages * relies on Google infrastructure * does not require one to setup and maintain their own servers * can be coded in python or java * each application scales to three million page views a month or around 1.2 requests a second before it costs * can switch app versions at the click of a button * easy with more than one developer/maintainer/admin * memcached, cron, xmpp/chat and other services are built in and easy * easy to learn api * easy to deploy, built in django or any other python templating * uses googles bigtable to save data as objects * has SDK which means app works locally before deployment * Deals with slashdot with no problem Disadvantages * relies on Google infrastructure * only python or java (php with xercus) * 1000 files limit (although this can be assisted with webzip) * can only speak on port 80 * cannot run some libs as a normal server would, and lacks some popular libs, eg lxml * has a 30 second (+1 to catch error) time limit per script * does not have a file system, for example scanning a /gallery/*.png directory for images is impossible * does not have a realational database as such * uses python 2.5 (a leap to 3 is expected as BDFL is at google) * cannot run a process eg a script to poll mpservers every few seconds * requires SDK to develop pete pete -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Hello Pete, Please clarify: Okay, I give it a try. :-) What you are suggesting is that * php and python are a cms I know they are never and should also never used as CMS (Content-Management-System). Maybe it was a bit unclean here, I mean real CMS' like Drupal,WordPress (can be used as CMS, too) and many others. * and that they have security holes. They (Drupal/WordPress are good examples) really have a lot holes, just checkout www.securityfocus.com and they brothers (not the whistle-blower websites). * This allow me to take over either the server itself Dynamic websites could punch another hole into your server, you cannot crack down static HTML pages itself, but maybe the server software (Apache,Lighttpd,Tomcat,etc.). Well, what I mean here is, Curt should be careful in choosing a dynamic website software like all these CMS' are. They have pros and cons and a big con is a no longer maintained project for example. And what if Curt sleeps, that normally happens, and it was found out that the choosen software has a security hole like remote-inclusion or SQL injection, if it a database-driven software? If you know these script-kiddies who needs to take over 500 servers in the Internet because their teacher was to rude to them and www.flightgear.org is one of them, look even my little project got already attacked more than 900 times since 1st Jan this year... :( And hopefully all got stopped by my (already released and) patched security software Cracker Tracker Standalone. * or change DNS entry If he runs a buggy DNS server, yes. DNS poisoning could be a problem. * above is everyone's wish. ??? Maybe not. ;) Is thats the Google AppEngine then yes, but its the same as ANY host, including the server under your bed, regarding security. What is the safest place. When did you last change the lock's on you garden shed? I'm not talking about physical security, that would be far to expensive for me. :) I mean software security. Please explain more about this proprietary website engine? Do you work for Microsoft? That is my guess and I hope you are not using ANYTHING proprietary browser to express upon. No, I never worked for them. :) And I use free software here. Linux-only since Dec. 1999. :D Also can you please host for free a system whereby I can hit it as 3 million a month == once a second, and accommodate a million of those hits in one day = slashdot? Nope, my server is not a cluster and I cannot host slashdot. :/ That means u need globally distributed with memcahe? First my server needs more RAM, only 512 MB installed. ;) Second, I need more money to pay for it. NO you cant.. so stop talking about shit your don't understand, until you've researched the problem more and also having actually experienced it. I can feel glad that my server was never taken over, except since I use that extra security software which is no bigger than an include file. And I understand how many traffic Curt's server has to handle. That's why I mirror some parts of his software on my server. BTW: That minds me to mirror the f***ing big EXE file on my server... Get a life!! the xhtml group is disbanded. Job is/was done and spec completed. That current spec is html5; that where its at, are you using a modern browser with css3..? Does Epiphany support it? Maybe, I don't know. :( But how many websites I regularly surf to has CSS 3? And HTML 5 is multi-media extended, XHTML is basicly a clean XML. please dump ie6 and netscape now and update to firefox or opera. WTF is IE6??? A worm or trojan horse? ;-) And I also use FF 3 here. :) Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
[...] hopefully all got stopped by my (already released and) patched security software Cracker Tracker Standalone. Oh, shame on me. That software is from www.cback.de, I have enhanced it with logging into a MySQL database for analysis purposes. Just to make this clear. :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web Site
Roland Haeder wrote: They (Drupal/WordPress are good examples) really have a lot holes, just checkout www.securityfocus.com and they brothers (not the whistle-blower websites). Were agreeing that some applications are badly coded. Thats why I prefer to steer clear of apps; unless their evaluated properly, notably with interpolation. Anyway web coding is simple, and a muppet can do it it like me. (unlike creating shaders and wtf gl/osg/etc) If you know these script-kiddies who needs to take over 500 servers in the Internet because their teacher was to rude to them and www.flightgear.org is one of them, look even my little project got already attacked more than 900 times since 1st Jan this year... :( And hopefully all got stopped by my (already released and) patched security software Cracker Tracker Standalone. You must have done something to achieve that? probably not. I looked at my server logs the other evening and there were 5000+ attempts to login as root on ssh over a period. Some bot running somewhere... First my server needs more RAM, only 512 MB installed. ;) Second, I need more money to pay for it. You need to start selling FlightGear DVDs at £13.82 per shot. There's a good margin there ;-) You might need to buy a t-shirt and cap first, to identify yourself before selling. Get a life!! the xhtml group is disbanded. Job is/was done and spec completed. That current spec is html5; that where its at, are you using a modern browser with css3..? Does Epiphany support it? Maybe, I don't know. :( But how many websites I regularly surf to has CSS 3? And HTML 5 is multi-media extended, XHTML is basicly a clean XML. ahem.. Epiphany is legacy as well.. but web .. its moving toward html5+css3. Eg this site has rounded tabs depending on which level your on. http://sydhangar.daffodil.uk.com/ Roland: Can you hack websites ie code them? Please I would like some help with developing Fg websites..http://fg-www.appspot.com/ and http://fg-online.appspot.com/ If you can certainly take sites down and flood then it would be brilliant. Please help me make it Fail. and then learn how not to make it fail. Code is here http://github.com/ac001/FlightGear-AppEngine-Cloud And you can run it on your local machine and crash that first before you do the same online ;-)) BTW, if you a graphic designer, then that would be brilliant. Am crap at graphics. Any help u need them email me on on chat as ac001 WTF is IE6??? A worm or trojan horse? ;-) And I also use FF 3 here. :) Yes IE6 is a worm and a trojan. That's why the UK police force embarassingly and quickly retracted and dropped Operation Ore in the UK. It was too simple for script kiddie to hack a machine in front of a jury. Report from GOV.UK is LOCKED till 2020. Not quite the definition of free and state together. Pete -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Google App Engine
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Pete Morgan ac...@daffodil.uk.com wrote: Advantages * relies on Google infrastructure * does not require one to setup and maintain their own servers * can be coded in python or java * each application scales to three million page views a month or around 1.2 requests a second before it costs * can switch app versions at the click of a button * easy with more than one developer/maintainer/admin * memcached, cron, xmpp/chat and other services are built in and easy * easy to learn api * easy to deploy, built in django or any other python templating * uses googles bigtable to save data as objects * has SDK which means app works locally before deployment * Deals with slashdot with no problem Disadvantages * relies on Google infrastructure * only python or java (php with xercus) * 1000 files limit (although this can be assisted with webzip) I keep most files in the database. Much faster to upload, deploy, etc etc, and no limit on number of files. * can only speak on port 80 * cannot run some libs as a normal server would, and lacks some popular libs, eg lxml * has a 30 second (+1 to catch error) time limit per script * does not have a file system, for example scanning a /gallery/*.png directory for images is impossible * does not have a realational database as such * uses python 2.5 (a leap to 3 is expected as BDFL is at google) * cannot run a process eg a script to poll mpservers every few seconds * requires SDK to develop pete pete -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
