Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

[Jon Stockill]

On 06/03/11 23:42, Vivian Meazza wrote:

> One final thought. We have been using logos in FG ever since I've been
> involved - 2004 and probably longer. In that time we have not had a problem.
> Are we saying that no rights holder has ever noticed it anywhere? I find
> that a bit improbable; perhaps they aren’t looking or aren't bothered.  Of
> course, I'm inviting disaster to strike us Monday morning.

While we're on the subject of branding I've got some generic billboard 
models which are in need of some posters to go on them - so if anyone 
wants to design them (I thought it might be nice to have some flightgear 
themed ads on them) then feel free to drop me an email and I'll let you 
know the dimensions. It's tempting to do one that flips over to show 
different ads too.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?

[Jon Stockill]

On 31/03/11 21:28, Roberto Inzerillo wrote:
> Hallo everybody,
>   I purchased a few rotary encoder and a bunch of 7segment displays to build 
> a physical replacement of the Bendix KX165. I'm using Arduino which feeds 
> data to FGFS on a serial connection. I'd like to update 
> "instrumentation/comm[0]/frequencies/standby-mhz" property using the rotary 
> encoder, I wonder what's the best strategy.

I'm working on something similar too:

http://leeds.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Projects/FlightSimHardware

The simplest solution seems to be to simply send the active and standby 
frequencies whenever there's a change (up/down of the standby frequency, 
or swap of active/standby), and define a protocol that expects the two 
frequencies, comma separated from the serial port. It doesn't appear to 
matter that there's not a continuous data stream - the last received 
value is used if there's no new data. I run the incoming protocol at 
10Hz, which seems to give a quick enough response for the on screen 
version of the display.

I'd like to be able to send values from flightgear back to the panel, so 
that updates to the properties are reflected on the radio panel 
hardware, but it appears I've got some bugs in my code at the moment 
(seems like a race condition or memory leak) that cause things to lock 
up or randomly reset. I need to get it hooked up to a JTAGICE to debug it.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?

[Jon Stockill]

On 03/04/11 15:04, Roberto Inzerillo wrote:

> Good to know Jon, I'll be glad to talk about that with you.
> I like your hardware approach, getting your hands "dirty" on a naked ATMega16 
> should be fun too :-)

It's interesting, and results in *much* smaller code than you'd get 
using the arduino libraries, and I was reasonably happy with gcc anyway 
which reduced the learning curve. It's nice to be able to just type 
"make" and have the code compiled and blasted onto the chip via an AVRISP2.

I sort of went about this in the opposite direction to most people - I 
started out with the bare AVR stuff, and got an arduino at a later stage 
just for hacking quick projects with, though it's currently stuck in a 
fairly long term project:

http://leeds.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Projects/Nav_Bot_I

> I've settled down on sending the standby-mhz only cause I will send the swap 
> freq<->  button state too, that will swap the frequencies inside fgfs 
> property tree itself, without the need to send the active freq too.
> Still I think it's better to make the external hardware send only the rotary 
> encoder's rotations from a design perspective, and not the frequencies at 
> all; I know that's debatable. I'm sending freq now for easy of development 
> only.
>
> I agree sending only changing values should be more desirable but serially 
> sent data should be sent all together, there's no way to send an input chunk 
> and leaving the others as-is; since my approach aims at integrating several 
> (not thousands but quite a few anyway!) physical input/output devices, I 
> think for simplicity everything should be sent at a constant frequency. And 
> no, I find 10hz is way too low for some other devices (maybe frequency 
> settings updates can tolerate a 10th of a second delay, but it's still 
> noticeable).
>
> I'm still wondering if you too have noticed that FGFS updates it's property 
> tree with not exact standby-mhz values when using such input devices. Can you 
> confirm? Did you solved this issue?
>
> I've also noticed you use%03.3f  in an input chunk ... I did 
> try that too, I hoped that would get me a 3.3 digit format but nothing! It's 
> ignored. How's that at your side?

Actually I wrote that with reference to the protocol documentation, 
because I didn't have the exact file handy - there may be slight 
differences between that and what I actually got working. I'll update it 
when I remember to grab a copy of the original file. I did get my 
prototype working though, so it's definitely possible to format the 
numbers properly.

I need to sort out a git server too so other people can play with the 
code, currently the only access to my git repository is through ssh.

Jon

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[Flightgear-devel] Scenery models

[Jon Stockill]

(Posted to both -users and -devel as scenery developers don't seem to be 
pinned down to one particular list).

I've recently hacked together a script to run some checks over the 
models in the scenery database looking for common problems. So far it's 
looking for missing textures, and textures with the wrong dimensions. 
The output can be found here:

http://scenemodels.flightgear.org/sceneryfaults.log

If you spot any of your models on the list then it'd be great if you 
could resubmit a corrected version preferably in the same format as you 
get by downloading the model from its page on the scenery db - it makes 
replacing them a lot easier).

I suspect the vast majority of textures reported as missing simply need 
the leading path stripping from the model code, the ones showing 
incorrect image sizes may need more work.

Fixing these errors should result in a lot less noise being generated by 
the scenery loader.

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[Flightgear-devel] Slackware packages for 2.4.0

[Jon Stockill]

Slackware packages for the FlightGear 2.4.0 release can now be 
downloaded from packages.flightgear.org.uk (and it appears there are a 
few people already doing just that!)

Packages are available for Slackware 12.2 and the 32 and 64 bit versions 
of Slackware 13.37

Enjoy!

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[Flightgear-devel] cmake

[Jon Stockill]

I've converted my build script over to cmake (I'll be updating my 
jenkins server once a few niggles have been ironed out) - these are:

Simgear:

Simgear doesn't seem to install to the correct directory on 64 bit 
systems any more - there doesn't seem to be any way to tell it to use 
/usr/lib64 instead of /usr/lib

FlightGear:

Have we changed the default data directory again? cmake outputs this:
-- Using default data-dir:  /usr/lib/FlightGear
There doesn't appear to be any way to set it within ccmake or from te 
commandline.

There's doesn't seem to be any way to enable the jpg-httpd server. 
(Under autoconf it was enabled by default if Simgear was built with jpeg 
factory support).

"make install" no longer installs the manpages.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] cmake

[Jon Stockill]

On 04/11/11 00:00, Martin Spott wrote:
> Jon Stockill wrote:
>
>> Simgear doesn't seem to install to the correct directory on 64 bit
>> systems any more - there doesn't seem to be any way to tell it to use
>> /usr/lib64 instead of /usr/lib
>
> That's in "LIB_POSTFIX". Try:
>
># ~>  cmake -D CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr -D LIB_POSTFIX=64 [...]

OK, just tried that (after a make clean first just to be sure), it still 
installs to /usr/lib (and neither ccmake nor cmake -LH make any mention 
of that option).

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] cmake

[Jon Stockill]

On 04/11/11 00:08, Adrian Musceac wrote:
> On Friday, November 04, 2011 01:05:25 Jon Stockill wrote:
>>
>> Have we changed the default data directory again? cmake outputs this:
>> -- Using default data-dir:  /usr/lib/FlightGear
>> There doesn't appear to be any way to set it within ccmake or from te
>> commandline.
>>
>
> I believe it's FG_DATA_DIR, as observed here:
> https://gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/4b8ef9c3cf4f4f3565de3678cd733ad8067be6d9

Thanks - that worked (well, it returns the correct details when you run 
cmake with that option, I've yet to test the resulting binary). It's not 
mentioned anywhere in ccmake though.

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[Flightgear-devel] Docs installation with cmake

[Jon Stockill]

I've just noticed that the README files are being installed to /usr/doc 
since the switch to cmake. This should be /usr/doc/flightgear

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[Flightgear-devel] Cmake equivalent to --with-osg=/some/path

[Jon Stockill]

I'm currently updating some jenkins build scripts for cmake rather than 
autoconf, and I'm having problems getting the build to link against 
local copies of all the dependencies. Is there a simple way of 
specifying where to look for these rather than having to specify the 
path to each individual library file (which from the cmake output seems 
like it might be the only way).
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Scenery web and scene models

[Jon Stockill]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:43:17 + (UTC), Martin Spott wrote:

> To be honest, there's a lot of ugly cruft in some of the web site 
> code
> and the plan was to cast this into a nicer shape before making it
> public.  Unfortunately the plan was never pursued.

Actually it's *mostly* ugly cruft. I had intended splitting the logic 
from the page layout (my design skills are even worse than my code ;-) 
but that's been on my todo list for way too long.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction

[Jon Stockill]

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 09:54:40 -0600, Curtis Olson wrote:
> Hi Martin and Olivier,
>
> I thought that windturbine orientation was correct in the past -- so
> please use due diligence to identify if the problem is just a
> misorientaiton of the base model, or if one of the components of the
> wind vector was reversed (or the code that takes the wind(east) and
> wind(north) components and derives the heading is correct.)
>
> If only east/west component is reversed, I dont think changing the
> base model orientation will actually fix the problem for all wind
> directions.

It may be from people submitting positions with an incorrect heading 
set. Since the model obviously turns into wind the heading should be 0 
in the database, though this appears as 180 in the stg file. If 
someone's submitted a hand crafted stg file with all the headings set to 
0 by mistake then it could explain the problem. I'll have a look when I 
get home from work.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction

[Jon Stockill]

On 29/02/12 17:06, Gijs de Rooy wrote:
> Whatever you do to fix it, please note that there is more than one
> windturbine model ;)
> E.g. this one I created recently:
> http://scenemodels.flightgear.org/modeledit.php?id=2418
>
> IIRC it has the same animation setup, just different numbers.

It seems there was some weirdness in the db:

landcover=> select count(*),ob_heading from fgs_objects where 
ob_model=33 group by ob_heading;
  count | ob_heading
---+
  1 | 200.00
  2 | 210.00
  1 | 230.00
  1 | 240.00
789 | 180.00
  24262 |   0.00
(6 rows)

So I've updated it, and we now have:

landcover=> select count(*),ob_heading from fgs_objects where 
ob_model=33 group by ob_heading;
  count | ob_heading
---+
  25056 |   0.00
(1 row)

I'll do the same for model 2418 - then once everything is consistent we 
can see if any changes need to be made (they certainly used to work 
properly).

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery loading cleanup

[Jon Stockill]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2012 23:13:56 +0100, Clement de l'Hamaide wrote:

> I've encountered a problem about this change but I fixed it. Some
> explanation :
> I use 5 sceneries folders and some of them add some data to the
> precedent scenery folder.
> I use this argument :
> 
> --fg-scenery=/home/clement/Scenery_test:/home/clement/fgdata_paf/Scenery:/home/clement/Scenery_elmaxo:/home/clement/Scenery_papillon81/Scenery:/home/clement/Scenery_italy:/home/clement/Scenery
> In order to fly at LFHU (France) I use these data:
> ~/fgdata_paf/Scenery/Object/e000n40/e006n45/3056064.stg
> ~/Scenery_elmaxo/Terrain/e000n40/e006n45/3056064.stg
> ~/Scenery_elmaxo/Terrain/e000n40/e006n45/3056064.btg.gz
> ~/Scenery_elmaxo/Terrain/e000n40/e006n45/LFHU.btg.gz
>
> Since you have changed I need to move associated Terrain in the same
> Scenery folder of Object folder. So I copied/pasted Terrain data in
> the same Scenery folder contains Objects and now I use these data:
> ~/fgdata_paf/Scenery/Object/e000n40/e006n45/3056064.stg
> ~/fgdata_paf/Scenery/Terrain/e000n40/e006n45/3056064.stg
> ~/fgdata_paf/Scenery/Terrain/e000n40/e006n45/3056064.btg.gz
> ~/fgdata_paf/Scenery/Terrain/e000n40/e006n45/LFHU.btg.gz

I have something similar in that my scenery path has 
/export/LocalScenery:/export/Scenery

The LocalScenery directory contains only an objects directory which 
adds extra objects that I'm currently working on. Previously these 
objects would be displayed along with the objects and terrain from the 
/export/Scenery directory but now I just get the objects and no terrain. 
Removing the first directory from the search path brings the terrain 
back again.

Can you explain exactly how the loading now works, and if it's still 
possible to use extra local objects trees in the way I describe?

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery loading cleanup

[Jon Stockill]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 18:38:34 +0100, Mathias Fröhlich wrote:
> Good Evening,
>
> Ok, no feedback to my comments here except Martin who tells me that 
> the
> current checked in version behaves as expected.

Except a bunch of scenery developers pointing out it completely breaks 
their method of working.

Merging the work into an existing tree isn't really an option - the 
ability to completely erase a tree and rebuild by script during testing 
is pretty much essential.

> I personally can understand that people want to have a local 
> seperated
> directory for their own personal additions. Let it be additions to
> the scenery
> that are just being developed and not yet ready or may be just the 
> personal
> garden gnome before your house that you are living in.
>
> OTOH, reestablishing a completely unterminated accumulation behavior 
> like we
> had before is problematic IMO since you will get duplicated models
> for really common use cases.

A discussion with a number of scenery developers resulted in *nobody* 
ever having experienced what you describe, and I suspect the setups we 
use are prime candidates for causing it. Alternatively we've read the 
documentation and done something to avoid this (though precisely what I 
honestly have no idea). In trying to duplicate the problem the only 
scenario we could come up with to result in what you describe was 
including the same objects tree twice in the scenery path before any 
terrain.

I really don't know what to suggest.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next Meeting #fg_scenery

[Jon Stockill]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 00:15:11 +0100, Christian Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the next meeting is planned for Monday, 26.3. at 16:00 UTC or 4
> PM UTC.
> Don't forget about the DST starting tonight in many countries :)
>
> Hope to see many of you.

I'm afraid I'll still be at work.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

[Jon Stockill]

On Wed, 2 May 2012 07:17:45 -0700 (PDT), Gene Buckle wrote:
> On Tue, 1 May 2012, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've just committed a change that adds emissive lighting to the 
>> random
>> buildings:
>>
>> http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/buildings-evening.jpg
>>
> That looks fantastic Stuart!
>
> It'll be cool when you can fly over and catch someone playing Tetris 
> on
> the side of one of those buildings. :D

Damnit, now I need to find time to model the green building at MIT and 
write tetris in nasal!

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[Flightgear-devel] Fwd: [Flightgear-commitlogs] FlightGear branch, next, updated. fe1222a90dd809560e787ce09391d5cf97bbe6fe

[Jon Stockill]

commit fe1222a90dd809560e787ce09391d5cf97bbe6fe
Author: Thomas Geymayer
Date:   Thu Nov 15 11:55:25 2012 +0100

 Optional profiling commands using gperftools


This appears not to be so optional:

[ 22%] Building CXX object 
src/Main/CMakeFiles/fgfs.dir/fg_commands.cxx.o
/export/flightgear/FlightGear-GIT/src/Main/fg_commands.cxx:57:30: fatal 
error: google/profiler.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
make[3]: *** [src/Main/CMakeFiles/fgfs.dir/fg_commands.cxx.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/export/flightgear/FlightGear-GIT'
make[2]: *** [src/Main/CMakeFiles/fgfs.dir/all] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory `/export/flightgear/FlightGear-GIT'
make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/export/flightgear/FlightGear-GIT'
make: *** [build-flightgear] Error 2

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[Flightgear-devel] UAV Landing on USS George H W Bush

[Jon Stockill]

http://now.msn.com/unmanned-navy-drone-x-47b-performs-arrested-landing-on-aircraft-carrier

Impressive - though I wouldn't want to be standing on the deck for its 
first few landings.

We shouldn't forget though that Curt had this nailed over a year ago - 
the only difference is the available budget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWghkjE8HMY

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[Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

[Jon Stockill]

When importing the recently committed traffic files into the traffic 
database I've noticed that there is some duplication, for example:

EC-HDT is defined for both CLI and IBE with different liveries.


Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

[Jon Stockill]

Jon Stockill wrote:
> When importing the recently committed traffic files into the traffic 
> database I've noticed that there is some duplication, for example:
> 
> EC-HDT is defined for both CLI and IBE with different liveries.

Some problems with flights too, looks like KLM0757 departs at 10:20 on 
wednesdays to MPTO, and again at 10:45 to VOHS.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

[Jon Stockill]

Durk Talsma wrote:

> Is it hard for you to compile a list of errors, so we can have a look? We 
> edited most by hand, so it is quite likely some typo's etc. slipped in.

I've mailed you a list.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear-1.99.5-RC2

[Jon Stockill]

Durk Talsma wrote:

> Just to make a blunt suggestion, although not completely of my own 
> imagination: would it be an idea to release this version as 2.0?. Initially, 
> we wanted to do a 1.9.0 release, because we felt that the OSG transition 
> wasn't quite there yet. Since then, enormous progress has been made, in 
> particular in the 3D clouds departments. So given this unexpected progress, 
> would labeling this release as 2.0 be  a viable option? I know that Curt's 
> been in favor of calling this release 2.0. I initially was a bit more 
> reluctant, but given the enormous progress, I have to say I'd be open to the 
> suggestion.
> 
> I agree with Tat that we need to think of a good versioning system for future 
> releases.

There are still problems with the clouds (the draw order problem with 
particles), and Tim has already mentioned his intention to start 
committing the code required for shadows after this release. I believe 
that code also makes landing lights a possibility. I'd be tempted to 
make the first release including both of those features 2.0

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear-1.99.5-RC2

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis Olson wrote:
> There's no reason the chooser can't be made to run on any of our 
> supported platforms.  It's written in fltk I believe and I've had it 
> running in Linux in the past.  The only reason it might seem like it's a 
> win32 only app is that Frederic is really the only one who has taken the 
> time to bundle it with his binary build.

Not quite true - it's been included in the Slackware Linux packages too.

Jon

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[Flightgear-devel] 1.9.0 packages for Slackware

[Jon Stockill]

The Slackware packages for the latest release are now available in the 
usual place:

http://flightgear.stockill.org.uk

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] VOR shack : scenery model upgrade opportunity

[Jon Stockill]

John Denker wrote:
> Hi Folks
> 
> FG puts a model of a VOR shack into the scenery in places where
> there is supposed to be a VOR shack.  So far so good.
> 
> The problem is, the model seems awfully small.  It looks like
> it is about 5 meters in diameter.  I've never seen one in RL
> that is that small.  I've seen them sometimes with twice that 
> diameter and more often with three times that diameter.  If
> you want more data on this, measure some of them using Google
> maps / satellite view.
> 
> These things are rather important if you want realism.  In
> the vicinity of a VOR shack, in VFR conditions, pilots
> really should not be looking at the CDI needle;  they
> should be looking out the window so they don't run into
> the idiot who *is* only looking at the CDI needle.
> 
> Having an easily-visible VOR shack model helps with this.
> 
> There are other useful uses for VOR shacks.
> 
> Would somebody be kind enough to make a bigger model, or
> at least in the interim triple the diameter of the existing
> model?

Send me a model, I'll update the database.

AFAIK though ther eare currently 2 models in the db, and one at least 
was modeled on a real VOR.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] VOR shack : scenery model upgrade opportunity

[Jon Stockill]

Alex Perry wrote:

> Here is a derivative idea.  There are several classes of VOR
> (irrespective of the other radio services that might be colocated)
> which determine what the receivable range is ... and whether they're
> usable for jet routes.  That change in transmitter power may be a
> defining factor for how big the shack is.

If we have range data available then we can use that to select an 
appropriate model too.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [BUG] division by zero in YASim/Airplane.cpp (possibly caused by bad 787 model)

[Jon Stockill]

LeeE wrote:

> Oh yeah, and if the model is using the standard FG VRP (Visual 
> Reference Point) to align the 3D model and FDM config, ax & ay (and 
> nearly always az) should all be 0.0.  az might be different in some 
> aircraft, like the Nimrod MR for example, because the nose has a 
> large offset in the YASim z axis.

Were you just using the Nimrod as an example, or do we actually have a 
Nimrod model somewhere?

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] The use of models from other formats

[Jon Stockill]

Tim Moore wrote:

> I don't know what to say about AC3D, but Blender has such a large community 
> that 
> I doubt you need to be suffering in isolation this way. Surely this is a 
> known 
> problem with a workaround?

Before people spend too much time on that if you have a small sample 
model that you could upload somewhere I'd be happy to try and work 
through the conversion process in blender to determine what's required 
to get acceptable results - once you're happy it *can* be converted 
properly we can worry about how to achieve that on your platform.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] The use of models from other formats

[Jon Stockill]

Vivian Meazza wrote:
> Ian,
> 
>  
> 
> Those boxes import nicely into AC3D here. How about a real challenge?

No problem getting them into blender either.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Preferred development os

[Jon Stockill]

Harry Campigli wrote:
> 
> 
> I have used SUSE for years, currently using 10.3. but feel it has "gone 
> off" since version 9. However I have always managed to build FG from 
> source on it with a bit off mucking around but never Terragear.
> 
> For along time I have wondered about Debian. I get the impression a lot 
> of FG developers use it. Thus I have installed  the etch verion.  
> Everything from the install worked of the mark. Unlike SUSE.   I managed 
> to get FG installed with some small bug in the sound, and still fiddling 
> about with terragear compiling. However its early days.
> 
> 
> Therefore could I float the question amongst FG developers  as which OS 
> is most commonly used or preferred as a Flightgear/Terragear development 
> system.

I use slackware linux for both flightgear and terragear. Slackware 11.0 
has been my main development system for a very long time, and I had no 
problems. I've recently set up partitions with 12.0, 12.1 and 12.2 on 
for building packages, and encountered no problems with a flightgear 
build on those (the only change I needed was to use openal-soft rather 
than the old openal-0.0.8 code as 0.0.8 didn't seem to be liked by the 
new compiler). Building on slamd64 12.1 was also a pain free experience.

Unfortunately building terragear on slackware 12.2 is something of a 
problem, since the compiler *really* doesn't like the newmat library, 
and there doesn't appear to be a newer version available - I suspect 
this will also be the case on other distros using the latest gcc.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Preferred development os

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:
> Harry Campigli  wrote:
> 
>> So till now for Terragear the only confirmed starter mentioned is Slackware
>> 11.0,12.0 and 12.1
> 
> The machine we're using for the World Scenery builds runs OpenSUSE 10.2
> - just by 'accident', as the OS was already installed by the time when
> we were given access to it. As far as I remember quite a lot of tests
> have also been performed on Debian Etch,

Slackware 11.0 used gcc 3.4.6 - which didn't have any problems compiling 
terragear and all its dependencies.

Slackware 12.2 uses gcc 4.2.4 - which throws lots of errors when 
compiling newmat.

For terragear I haven't tested any versions between these two (yet - I 
can if necessary).

I didn't say it wouldn't work on other distros, just that you *may* have 
problems with newer versions of the compiler.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Preferred development os

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:
> Harry Campigli  wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Martin Spott wrote:
> 
>>> The machine we're using for the World Scenery builds runs OpenSUSE 10.2
>>> - just by 'accident', as the OS was already installed by the time when
>>> we were given access to it. As far as I remember quite a lot of tests
>>> have also been performed on Debian Etch,
> 
>> That sits very nicely with my existing SUSE 10.3 set up then.
> 
> Well, the OpenSuSE had not been our choice, but we were unable to
> change it  ;-)

I just checked the gcc version on there and it's 4.1.2 - so it may just 
be 4.2.x that has the problem.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] OpenStreetMap Open Database License

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:
> OSM are currently discussing a draft of their to be expected future
> license for their road database. If you're interesed in having OSM
> roads show up one day in some future releases of the FlightGear World
> Scenery, then feel free to reserve some time, start at:
> 
>   http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License
> 
>   and to read through their legal stuff. Don't miss the Use Cases.

In particular "8. Using OSM data in a computer game together with other 
commercial data"

Which is the most relevant to us - I think it got "extended" from my 
original question about use with other "free" data.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] OpenStreetMap Open Database License

[Jon Stockill]

Tim Moore wrote:

> Obviously you've been following this more closely than I, but doesn't the
> proposed license specifically allow the use of OSM data in applications
> like flight simulators, with a fairly liberal license?

I originally added the use case - it's been tweaked slightly since then, 
  and is currently awaiting a response from the lawyer. Not really much 
to do until that decision materialises.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building TerraGear

[Jon Stockill]

Geoff McLane wrote:

> So, no idea why fgfs-tools-client crashes, but it is
> NOT used to generate a small region of scenery.

Not true. There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't use it, 
especially if you have more than one machine available to build your 
scenery (the server then hands out tiles to build to clients ensuring 
they're built in a sensible order, with no duplication). 
fgfs-tools-client then calls the construct binary with the appropriate 
parameters.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Elevation trouble with Scenery

[Jon Stockill]

cullam Bruce-Lockhart wrote:
> I've been mucking around trying to build my own scenery for the last 
> couple weeks, with a VAST amount of help from Geoff McLane. I've got it 
> all working, and have been able to generate my own scenery.
> 
> However, the elevation is coming out all messed up. Geoff has some 
> photos of how it has come out available on his site:
> http://geoffair.net/tmp/cullam-01.htm
> Almost all the land data is appearing completely flat, at -m. There 
> are a few pieces of land that appear at sea level. All airports are at 
> sea level.
> 
> I'm working on the scenery for the island of Newfoundland. I'm using the 
> DEM data available from
> http://geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/cded/index.html\, which has a 
> resolution of about 30m. According to the Terragear tools, this data is 
> in the correct ASCII format, and is good to go for demchop.
> 
> After running demchop on about 380 of these files, the folder containing 
> the chopped elevation data is 131.1 MB.
> 
> I then run genapts on my apt.dat file which was modified to include 
> airports that aren't in the official apt.dat, and to correct their 
> layouts. Again, there don't appear to be any problems.

If your airports are at sea level then there's a very good chance your 
processed DEM data is in the wrong directory.

If you run genapts without any parameters ISTR you'll get a list of the 
directories it will search.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Problems with terragear and building Australian scenery

[Jon Stockill]

Jason Cox wrote:
> Geoff,
>   sorry for the double post, but I thought I had issues with my old and
> new email address.
> Anyway,the original hgt source was from
> e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/Australia
> This was 'wget' from the site back '06 and unfortunatly not available
> now. I am cutting up the hgt file with 'gtchop 1 HGT/S38E150.hgt
> SRTM2-Australia-3/' and it shows no errors.

There's your problem - the data is 3 arcsec, not 1, so effectively 
you've shrunk it to 1/3 of its original size. Re-run hgtchop with 3 
instead of 1.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] genapts, demchop, and data from geobase.ca

[Jon Stockill]

cullam Bruce-Lockhart wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a set of Canadian data from geobase.ca. This is fairly high 
> resolution data that is downloaded as .dem files. There are already 
> formatted in ascii, and deminfo claims they are good to go. demchop runs 
> on them just fine, and completes successfully, as does terrafit.
> 
> And then we come to genapts. It loops over and over and over, opening 
> the first pair of .arr.gz/.fit.gz it finds. It's not a problem with that 
> particular pair, as deleting them just makes it loop opening the next 
> pair. This happens regardless of whether I put them in DEM-USGS-3 or 
> SRTM2-North_America-3. Any idea what could be going wrong here? Is it 
> possible that demchop is handling them as if they were 30 arc-sec data? 
> The resolution on these is about 25-30 m, and I'm not sure exactly what 
> that translates to in arc-sec, but it's 3 or less. I've heard someone 
> say that this data set is .75 arc-sec, actually, but I'm not quite sure 
> if that's right or not.

~30m is 1 arcsec - if you didn't process the data as 1arcsec then you 
probably need to go re-run demchop with the correct parameters.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sky dome coloring

[Jon Stockill]

Erik Hofman wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> After a request in the forum for a nice pink sunset I decided to update 
> the sky coloring a bit.
> The fog color now transitions into the sky dome which gives a way better 
> result (imho).
> (changes are both in SimGear and FlightGear).
> 
> Let me know what you all think.

Sunsets look very nice, but this looks a bit odd, I've not noticed it 
before, so I'm not sure if it was introduced with this change, or an 
earlier one, the top of the skydome seems to have some rather odd shading:

http://courgette.jml.net/~jon/fgfs-sky-001.jpg
http://courgette.jml.net/~jon/fgfs-sky-002.jpg
http://courgette.jml.net/~jon/fgfs-sky-003.jpg

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] X-Plane 850 file format support committed

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis Olson wrote:

> I wonder what tricks and approaches the gaming community uses for 
> drawing clear and realistic roads?  The problem with cutting the lines 
> into the surface as polygons is that (1) you explode the polygon count 
> and (2) you have hard aliased edges which can become distracting in the 
> distance.  Cooking the lines into the surface texture gets rid of the 
> aliasing problem, but then you explode your texture memory requirements 
> and need to do a lot of work to generate those textures on the fly

You also lose the polygon material mapping if you're just going to have 
a surface (presumably generated from just SRTM data) with the generated 
texture draped over it. IMHO this is a huge benefit of what we have 
already, since that's what allows us to have things like amphibious 
aircraft, operate aircraft from roads (I'm thinking of the harrier, 
jaguar, air ambulance operations etc etc) and generally ensure a nice 
bumpy landing when you have to choose a field for your glider because 
you ran out of altitude before you made it back home. AFAIK this is 
something pretty unique to FlightGear - we should think very carefully 
before dropping it.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Models/Airport BAK-12-0.ac, NONE,

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:
> Vivian Meazza wrote:
>> Update of /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Models/Airport
>> In directory baron.flightgear.org:/tmp/cvs-serv26998
>>
>> Added Files:
>>BAK-12-0.ac BAK12.xml 
>> Log Message:
>> Add runway arrester gear type BAK-12. Based on Dave Culp's original work
> 
> Just as a reminder, as written in the 00README.CONTRIBUTE file:

It's already there :-)

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-cvslogs]

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:

> Isn't that a duplicate of this one:
> 
>   http://scenemodels.flightgear.org/modeledit.php?id=918
> 
>   which had been in CVS for several months ?
> Two models with the same type name - is there any difference ?

Yes - the new one actually works as an arrester system, rather than just 
being inactive scenery. I'll update any instances of the old one to use 
the new model, and then remove the old version.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] heads up - effects

[Jon Stockill]

syd adams wrote:
> I get the same error on Linux

The OSG 2.9.5 dev release will solve the problem if you want to try out 
the changes immediately.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] view manager "look at" mode

[Jon Stockill]

Gene Buckle wrote:

> Would it be possible to place the new "view" into a window instead of 
> having a dedicated view?  That would allow you to have an instrument panel 
> with a blank cut-out that could hold this newscam/FLIR window.

AFAIK we're currently limited to 1 camera, which would mean you'd need 2 
instances of FlightGear in order to get the 2 different views.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] view manager "look at" mode

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:
> Jon Stockill wrote:
> 
>> AFAIK we're currently limited to 1 camera, which would mean you'd need 2 
>> instances of FlightGear in order to get the 2 different views.
> 
> The file FlightGear/docs-mini/README.multiscreen explains how to add
> additional cameras,

That allows you to extend your display, but doesn't give you an 
independent camera showing a view from a different POV.

README.multiscreen was exactly what I was working from when trying to 
build something which would composite something like tower/flyby/cockpit 
views on a single screen.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New FDM: Vamos automotive simulation in flightgear

[Jon Stockill]

Thorsten Hackbarth wrote:
> Hi,
> I created a new FDM based on Sam Varner's automotive simulation
> framework Vamos http://vamos.sourceforge.net and some yasim code.
> Is there a chance to get it into svn?

Does this mean we'd be able to have real gearboxes in the vehicles we 
already have, along with drive based on ground reaction rather than 
faked with a jet engine?

That'd certainly be extremely useful for airfield vehicles.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009

[Jon Stockill]

Maxime Guillaud wrote:

> ok. Meanwhile, my understanding is that I can distribute my OSM-based 
> scenery under the Attribution-Share Alike Creative Commons license 
> without problems. Correct ?

If it's data you submitted to OSM yourself then you can use any license 
you like, since you still retain ownership of your data.

If you're using OSM data submitted by others then you'll need to 
distribute it under CC-by-SA.

Once the new OSM license is sorted then AIUI flightgear scenery will 
constitute a produced work (there's no easy way to convert it back to 
the source data), in which case we'll be able to make use of it for the 
scenery.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New FDM: Vamos automotive simulation in flightgear

[Jon Stockill]

Thorsten Hackbarth wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, den 29.07.2009, 18:35 +0100 schrieb Jon Stockill:
> 
>> Does this mean we'd be able to have real gearboxes in the vehicles we 
>> already have, along with drive based on ground reaction rather than 
>> faked with a jet engine?
>>
> 
> Yes, real engine and gearbox and clutch,...
> 
> you can download a patch against sundays cvs at 
> http://www.gupl.org/flightgear/source.tar.bz2
> and a car at
> http://www.gupl.org/flightgear/porsche356.tar.gz
> 
> It still is in a very early stage, but you should be able to drive all
> over the world (is there any other automotive sim which can do that?).

Patched and working no problem here.

It seems quite slippery once you get it up to a reasonable speed, even 
on a dry runway (I guess tyre design has come a long way since the late 
1940s).

I couldn't find any controls mapping anywhere - can you tell me how to 
operate more than just the steering, throttle, and brakes (found by 
waggling everything on the stick and throttle until it did something :-)

For those interested here's a couple of pics from a quick spin around EGXG:

http://courgette.jml.net/~jon/porsche-1.jpg 
http://courgette.jml.net/~jon/porsche-2.jpg

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Using shapefiles other than VMAP

[Jon Stockill]

cullam Bruce-Lockhart wrote:
> Hey gang. I'm not sure if the answer to this will turn out to be retardedly 
> simple, or ludicrously complex, but here goes. 
> 
> I've build scenery for the island of Newfoundland with very high resolution 
> for the elevation. But now the low-res, VMAP0 looks awful. In many cases, it 
> cuts canyons and builds wall through an otherwise rugged landscape. I can't 
> find VMAP1 for Canada, but I found a set of vector data in some sort of 
> shapefile format that is at 50,000:1 as opposed to VMAP0's 1,000,000. It's 
> called CanVec. I've got a descriptive html file for one section of land 
> attached to this e-mail.  The question is, how do I format this data, or 
> modify my build commands to use it? For one section of the smallest size the 
> data is cut into, I have a file with a name of the format 
> 001n10_2_0_BS_1250009_1 where: 
> -> 001n10 is the land area described in this file (this is the same numbering 
> system that the elevation data I'm using used)
> 
> -> 2_0 is the same for every one I've got, I'm not sure what the significance 
> is. 
> 
> -> BS is a two letter code that varies from file to file. It might refer to 
> the coverage described by the given shapefile. The others are EN, FO, HD, IC, 
> LX, SS, TO, TR, and VE. Every section has some of each of these. 
> 
> -> 1250009 is changes for each file name. But ALL file names end in 0009. So 
> the 125, versus 176 or any other number is the distinctive thing in the file 
> name. 
> 
> -> some of the filenames have two or three copies, where the only difference 
> is this last number. It's varries between 0, 1 and 2. 
> 
> -> for EVERY file name, I have a .dbf, .prj, .shp, and .shx file. 
> 
> Every section is in it's own folder, so all the 001n10s are grouped together. 
> In each group, is an html file like the one attached, which might tell you 
> far more than I just have. If somebody could give me some tips, or point to 
> some documentation as to how I could use this data to build my scenery in 
> Terragear, it would be really helpful! Up till now, I've been using tgvpf, 
> but that works directly on the VMAP0 stuff, so I'm guessing it won't work 
> without some modification to structures, commands or parameters here. Thanks 
> a lot guys! 
> -cullam

shapedecode or ogrdecode should process those files for you - you just 
need to ensure the coordinates are wgs84 and not some other projection 
(if they are then they can be converted with the ogr2ogr tool from gdal/ogr)

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [patch] Improved 3D clouds performance?

[Jon Stockill]

syd adams wrote:
> Tried the patch and see a slight improvement ...
> At the moment I have other problems ...no sound , extremely slow loading 
> times , etc... so I'll keep testing in between audio debugging :)

Ah, I'm glad it's not just me with sound problems - I've just upgraded a 
machine to prepare for building packages, so I've built everything from 
scratch and spent ages tearing my hair out trying to work out why I was 
getting no sound. Obviously with new builds of everything it's difficult 
to tell what was the source of the problem because *everything* is new.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Things that cause fgfs-construct to be killed?

[Jon Stockill]

cullam Bruce-Lockhart wrote:
> Hi gang. My last few builds of scenery have been killed in the exact same 
> manor, and produced hilarious results to view from the air. Anyway, I was 
> wondering if anyone knew off the top of their head the full list of things 
> that cause fgfs-construct to be killed? I've bumped up the time limit, but it 
> isn't reaching that limit. I've cut each build into the smallest allowable 
> chunk, 0.0625 by 0.125 degrees. I'm not where to set TG_MAX_NODES, but I even 
> tried changing the line in Build/Main/main.cxx 
> "c.set_max_nodes(TG_MAX_NODES * 0.8);" to "c.set_max_nodes(TG_MAX_NODES * 3);"
> 
> Obviously, that's a bit of a hack, but I figured I'd try it to see if it made 
> a difference. Nothing. 
> 
> I'm trying to work with the absolute bleeding edge of what terragear can 
> handle here, with 0.75 arc-sec DEMs, using a 3 meter error threshold, and 
> 50,000:1 shapefile data. So I'd like to slacken any restrictions that 
> Terragear imposes. My experience so far has been that better scenery can take 
> MUCH longer to build, but has a minimal effect on Flightgear's framerate, 
> 
> Any suggestions of what else I could change to let it do crazy builds? One of 
> my CPU cores runs at 100% while building, but my memory usages is still less 
> than 10%, so I shouldn't have hit the limits of my hardware yet! 
> Thanks folks. 

Just completely remove any call to setrlimit. You'll then be limited by 
the system itself, so if you run out of ram and swap it'll die anyway - 
there's not really much you can do about that other than using a better 
machine.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound problems (Was: Improved 3D clouds performance?)

[Jon Stockill]

Erik Hofman wrote:

> What version of OpenAL is this and does explicitly adding 
> --prop:/sim/sound/enabled=true make any difference?

I'm using openal-soft-1.9.563 - setting that property on startup does 
seem to solve the problem, though changing it after startup doesn't 
appear to enable it (presumably because some initialisation has already 
been missed).

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Jon Stockill]

Pete Morgan wrote:
> Tom P wrote:
>> Hi Torsten
>>
>> That's an interesting concept, I was thinking about groups as well.
>>
>> But instead of writing extra code on top of the current client and server,
>> could we use different ports on the server?
>>
>> Let me explain: if I understand correctly, the server already allows 
>> connection to port 5002 for testing.,
>> What if we extend the concept to multiple ports and maybe assign a 
>> name to the port to make things clear.
>>
>> As you said, some of the predefined groups could be:
>> - Beginner => port 5000
>> - Adheres to/provides ATC => port 5001
>> - Combat/Fighter on a mission => port 5002
>> - Airliner => port 5003
>>
>> (I'd group "Adheres to/provides ATC" and "Airliner" together for now).
>>
>> Obviously the server will need to do a bit more work, but at least the 
>> demultiplexing between groups is done by the TCP/IP stack, which is 
>> quite optimal.
>>
>> The only drawback is that groups are *really* separate, it would not 
>> be easy to see traffic from other groups.
>>
>> Just an idea,
>>
>>   Tom
> I like this idea a lot :-)

I would suggest that this is a bad idea - ever increasing port 
requirements are simply going to annoy the people running the servers.

It's really not the right way to solve the problem.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cliffs

[Jon Stockill]

cullam Bruce-Lockhart wrote:
> Terribly sorry to send this out again, but I never got any response to my 
> previous query. 
> 
> I'm planning on developing procedures that automatically assign cliff 
> textures to any scenery beyond a certain slope. From reading through the 
> flightgear devel archives, this idea has come up before. Does anybody know if 
> any work was actually done with it? And if so, anyone know where I can find 
> it, or who I can talk to about it? I just want to make sure I'm not doing 
> work that's redundant. 

I suspect that's something already handled by the terrain shaders. ISTR 
they give a more rocky look to steeper surfaces.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Laptop Recommentations

[Jon Stockill]

Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> The graphics card on my FG PC has just died, and as the PC is now quite old 
> and was already on it's second graphics card, I'm looking to buy a laptop to 
> replace it with.
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation for laptops, or particular things I should 
> look out for.
> 
> So far, my requirements list is as follows:
> * 17" screen
> * NVidia graphics card (non-integrated)
> * Ubuntu support
> * Plenty of USB sockets for joystick/pedals.

The HP Pavillion range is probably worth looking at - a lot of them 
appear to have nvidia 100 and 200 series graphics now.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] TerraGear terrafit python script

[Jon Stockill]

Andrew Gillanders wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Does someone have a working copy of the terrafit.py script? I have  
> the one from the TerraGear 0.9.8 tar ball at terragear.org, but it  
> isn't working on my system (Mac OS 10.4, using Unix command line,  
> Python version 3.0.1). Python is not my language, so trying to get it  
> working is getting a bit tedious.
> 
> Could it be time to update the TerraGear source code to make it more  
> readily buildable?

Have you tried with python 2.x?

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] memory hemorrhage

[Jon Stockill]

Tim Moore wrote:

> By the way, the new hotness in terrain visualization seems to be 
> creating buildings from shape files that encode the height of each 
> building, with a big texture (extracted from a bigger image) that has an 
> image of each roof. If you assume that buildings are prisms, an 
> efficient representation of the building polygons can be created at load 
> time. Any thoughts on that approach?

Not done at runtime, and untextured but:

http://gallery.flightgear.org.uk/c1702623.html

Ok for basic buildings, but our modellers can do much better. Its a 
handy technique for filling in buildings, but you have to be careful 
just how many you create - those examples resulted in 1fps.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] memory hemorrhage

[Jon Stockill]

Heiko Schulz wrote:
> Hi
>> That's the correct definition. I
>> meant that the frame rate was "clobbered." Perhaps
>> "clobbered" is a bit strong. 
>> Tim
>>
> 
> This gives far more sense then.
> 
> For KSFO it would maybe help to change the power pylons. Currently it is one 
> sized .ac-model but which is changed in size per scale-animation in .xml.
> As we already know every used .xml will slow down, so a big amount of .xml in 
> a scenery can be "deadly" (like Paris-scenery)
> 
> Problem: I don't think to replace all power pylons is an easy task

Actually, it's a very easy task :-)

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] configuration snafu

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis Olson wrote:
> I don't doubt that there could be some lib vs. lib64 inconsistencies, 
> but FilghtGear builds right out of the box for me on 64bit Fedora 12 ... 
> no hitches at all that I recall and it has done so for quite some time.

Same for me on slackware64.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Outerra

[Jon Stockill]

Heiko Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just for those who wants to know what's going on in the flight sim world:
> Outerra is a new 3d-engine for seamless planet rendering.
> 
> They included JSBSim, so it can be used as Flight Sim. 
> 
> It is still in developement, but they hope it will be used in any games and 
> sims in near future. 
> There is a demo planned for the next few weeks.
> 
> I wonder if we can use this with FGFS as well ;-)
> But it seems that the new technics used shows the future of flight sims 
> graphics and abilities

Very impressive. I wonder how well it handles more urban environments. 
The screenshots of the road rendering are very nice.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery bug: KSQL stray building

[Jon Stockill]

George Patterson wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:48 AM, John Denker  wrote:
>> At KSQL there is reproducibly a building sitting
>> partially on a taxiway and even extending onto
>> the runway a little bit.
>>
>>  http://www.av8n.com/fly/fgfs/img48/ksql-building-on-rwy.png
>>
>>
> 
> I have also been experiencing this issue so it's in the scenery somewhere.

It's in the scenery because the FAA say it's there, and a quick look on 
google earth confirms that. We just need a more specific model to 
replace the generic one.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shift key stuck once pressed

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis Olson wrote:
> For what it's worth, the [ ] key bug is also in OSG-2.9.5 (the latest 
> developer release last I checked.)  Bummer to have to open up the 
> property browser to change flap settings on takeoff and landing.  I was 
> hoping this would get fixed quickly because OSG seemed to make frequent 
> releases, but it's been quite some time now since they've rolled up a 
> new release.

It's fixed in 2.9.6, which was released 10th Dec.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shortcut to flaps down

[Jon Stockill]

Atadjanov Daniyar wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> For a long time "flaps down" shortcut ( ] ) is not working on my fgfs-devel. 
> It's not a problem for me, because i'm using joystick's button to extract 
> flaps, but i think we must check this function before releasing 2.0.
> 
> I'm on Ubuntu Linux + FGFS from CVS.

This was caused by a bug in OSG - I'd suggest upgrading to the 2.9.6 
developer release.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] rotated screen

[Jon Stockill]

Harry Campigli wrote:

> Possibly I can just rotate the view in osg where the camera is defined
> and just position the instruments as required on the rotated panel in
> the normal maner
> 
> (os is linux, multi screen video cards)
> 
> Any suggestions on the way to approach this or where ita already been
> done would be most welcome.

You should be able to rotate the screen with driver settings, leaving 
you with a 768x1024 rather than 1024x768 display (for example) to 
display a "normal" OSG camera view on.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] http://wiki.flightgear.org/robots.txt

[Jon Stockill]

John Denker wrote:

> Really?  A collective, open-source project that doesn't
> allow anybody other than google to index the documentation?
> 
> Is there a reason for this?

Presumably because there are some truly awful bots out there, and google 
at least is known to be well behaved.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] News from FlightProSim!

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis Olson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Frederic Bouvier  > wrote:
> 
> 
> What will happen if this guy creates a flightgear.flightprosim.com
>  page ?
> 
> 
> We could only hope ... !!!
> 
> Can we get in trouble ourselves for using his name?

Possibly - he claims it's a trademark.

One from the screenshots page that contains yet more non-gpl content. If 
he's including that scenery then that could be a problem.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Enable headtracking in FlightGear?

[Jon Stockill]

George Patterson wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:41 PM,   wrote:
>> You're probably right, they phrase is differently: the non-commercial API 
>> may only be used in 'open source'  projects...
>>
>> I don't know why, but it does not matter to me: I like 'open source' !
>>
> 
> It's bigger than just open versus non-commercial? The FaceAPI is not
> GPL compatible. The GPL allows you to download the source and
> commercialise the code as long as the same rights are granted to the
> end users.
> 
> As I see it, this means that this extension would need to be left out
> of the FlightGear source tree.

This is also something that Melchior is already working on using OpenCV 
and ehci - all open source.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Real-time shipping traffic

[Jon Stockill]

On 04/11/10 11:32, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I recently came across http://www.marinetraffic.com/, which tracks
> shipping by means of their AIS transmitter, which all vessels over 299
> gross tonnes must carry.
>
> The data is transmitted by radio and includes position, speed, course,
> rate of turn, as well as the vessel type, dimensions etcs.. The
> project collects the data from various volunteer receivers and
> collates it into a DB, and provides mash-ups over Google maps etc.
>
> I think there could be a very nice little project to incorporate a
> data feed from their server through a proxy and into our MP network,
> displaying marine traffic in real-time. This would completely obviate
> the need for AI shipping routes, and at a stroke, the sea in FG would
> become accurately populated.
>
> Unlike aircraft transmitting ADS-B updates, shipping is quite slow
> slow and therefore has less of an interpolation problem, pluss it
> doesn't really need to interact with our aircraft*, so this seems a
> very good fit.
>
> Their tracking software is GPL, so one would hope that they would have
> some sympathy with us, plus it would provide a way for them to
> visualize their data.
>
> The only major downside I can see is that some ports are obviously
> very busy - a quick look at Antwerp showed over 1000 vessels in a 50nm
> radius. I guess this would have a significant impact on the MP
> protocol,  However, on the plus side, the ship models themselves are
> very simple and wouldn't have any animations, so one would hope that
> the frame-rate hit would be reasonable.
>
> Anyone particularly interested in taking this further? I may look at
> it myself, and at least engage the people running the project, but
> don't expect any quick results!

I'd love to see this implemented as a server could feed data into 
flightgear either via the mpservers, or locally straight into flightgear 
(preferably the option of both!) This way we get a whole load of 
interesting life in our environment.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenemodels ground elevation update

[Jon Stockill]

On 10/01/11 15:26, Curtis Olson wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> I skimmed the contribute.php link for info on specifying object
> elevation and had one question.  Your approach seems focus on landmarks
> and buildings that need to sit on top of the ground.  But often,
> important tall objects have a known absolute height ... like a radio
> tower in an FAA database. For these objects it would be better to keep
> them at a fixed absolute height rather than float them up or down with
> different revisions of the terrain.

Those things are marked as obstructions in the database, their elevation 
is fixed. (In this case we know the published height of the top, and the 
height of the model, and can place the base accordingly - this is done 
for all the FAA and FCC sourced models that we placed).

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next world scenery build

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:

Hello Curt,

Martin Spott wrote:



[...] After the 'standard' shapefile-based scenery has
proven to work we can start tackling issues like the Great Lakes
shorelines and such.



I just realized that there is a new set of GSHHS (shape)files where the
distinction between ocean shoreline and inland water appears to be
correct. This shapefile indeed contains ocean shoreline without Great
Lakes:

  
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/shorelines/data/gshhs/version1.3/shapefiles/gshhs_land/


ISTR having problems with that version when in gshhs format - it caused 
endless loops which eventually killed the process. It's possible the 
shapefiles don't suffer from this problem - I'll give it a try.


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[Flightgear-devel] Brad Andrew

[Jon Stockill]

Your ISPs greylisting setup appears to be broken (it rejects my mail and 
says it'll be accepted on retry an hour later - it's been giving the 
same message for 48 hours). I *have* replied to your mail - if you drop 
me a note with another email address I'll forward you a copy.


Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next world scenery build

[Jon Stockill]

On Thu, December 22, 2005 12:38 pm, Martin Spott wrote:
> Hello Jon, I hope you didn't get me wrong:
>
> Martin Spott wrote:
>
>> I see that SWBD might have slightly more detail in certain areas as it
>> follows even small quay walls but the "staircase mode" in SWBD makes it
>> insuitable for creating FlightGear shorelines right out of the box. It
>> may well be recommended to use SWBD as a reference for those who intend
>> to modify scenery around coastal sites.
>
> I didn't mean to be harsh about your proposal. I just think we have to
> realize that there's still much to be done before we can profit from
> SWBD for our purpose:

No, I realise there's a lot of work involved before it can be used - not
least because we'd need to derive land polygons from data which currently
defines water polygons, as well as smoothing the data. It's not something
that's gonna make this release, unless there's a version of the data for
which this work has already been done.

I grabbed the shapefiles for the gshhs v1.3 release last night - I'll
throw it into mapserver and see how it compares to vmap0 and SWBD - it may
be that we'd gain very little for the amount of work involved, in which
case we can skip it and stick with GSHHS in the longer term.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: PA24-250 model under development

[Jon Stockill]

On Thu, December 22, 2005 1:20 pm, Jim Wilson wrote:

> A great project if someone wants to take it on would be to enhance VRML
> support in plib so that a wider range of options would be available.  This
> is something that was brought up by David Megginson several times and I
> think he is right.  It would really open up the options. Perhaps we could
> actually get to a place were the ac3d format would be largely if not
> entirely replaced in flightgear with something open and human readable.

I use blender all the time, unfortunately VRML import in blender is rather
lacking, so a general move to VRML may leave us with some problems (unless
2.40 has better VRML support of course).

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Texture compression experiments in plib

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:


Ah, I knew once someone would try TIGER data with FlightGear  :-)
Is there any public notion of this Scenery ?


http://flightgear.stockill.org.uk/testing/BaseSceneryWithTiger.tgz

That's using tiger data for major roads, railways, and waterways - the 
water flowing down valleys is nice. The roads seem to cause a few 
problems in places (especially when you try to use all the data) With 
just major roads and their sliproads you can at least make out major 
road junctions which're often used for VFR reporting points.


Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Texture compression experiments in plib

[Jon Stockill]

AJ MacLeod wrote:

Using this patch and plib-1.8.4 on a 64Mb GeForce 420MX there is a massive 
improvement; not immediately noticeable, but...


Whereas before I couldn't use the Hurricane in most parts of the FG world, and 
got single-figure fps rates at KSFO with any a/c and Nimitz enabled, I can 
now take off from Nimitz _with_ the hurricane and have useable steady fps! 
(around 15)


My results with a similar card mirror that almost exactly - clearly the 
card is the limiting factor, and this patch made a *huge* difference.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Texture compression experiments in plib

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:

Hello Jon,

Jon Stockill wrote:



http://flightgear.stockill.org.uk/testing/BaseSceneryWithTiger.tgz



Thanks for posting the link.
Can you share your experience with us how to size the hardware in order
to run this scenery ? I know TIGER is _very_ detailed and, analogous to
Ralf's scenery, certain levels of detail will have to be dropped for
the average user. Is it still possible to run the full detail with
hardware I can buy in my favourite PeeCee shop ?


It doesn't seem to be displaying it that's the problem - it's getting 
terragear to build it. Once you reach a certain polygon density things 
start to break down, there's obviously a lot more polygons, but the road 
polys just don't seem to show up, and there's a big increase in the 
number of polygons that seem to have problems with their texture 
coordinates. The resulting scenery was still just about usable on a 
GeForce2 MX 400.


As an idea of the processing involved, as I'm sure you're aware by 
default the terragear tile builder has a cpu limit of 120s set - you're 
not going to get anything at all built with those limits using this 
amount of data - it takes anything between 45 minutes and 75 minutes on 
a 1GHz Athlon with 768MB of RAM.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Texture compression experiments in plib

[Jon Stockill]

Ralf Gerlich wrote:

Hi,

Jon Stockill schrieb:
[SNIP]

As an idea of the processing involved, as I'm sure you're aware by 
default the terragear tile builder has a cpu limit of 120s set - 
you're not going to get anything at all built with those limits using 
this amount of data - it takes anything between 45 minutes and 75 
minutes on a 1GHz Athlon with 768MB of RAM.



For one tile? Our scenery currently takes about 2h for 112 tiles, and up 
to 10mins for the most detailed tiles.


Yes - for one tile. It took a couple of days or so to generate the 
scenery for the base package (I suspect you can get a good idea from the 
timestamps on the files).


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Voice ATC

[Jon Stockill]

Christian Mayer wrote:


The usual SIP based VoIP is -- IIRC -- a P2P network that uses a central
server (the SIP server) to establish the connection.

If you are already thinking of Asterisk you might have a good look
there. Chances are that it implements already the required stuff.


SIP has problems with NAT though, since the control and media streams 
are on seperate ports (and the control messages contain the source 
address) - something like IAX doesn't suffer from that limitation - 
everything goes over the same port - therefore it'll be as NAT friendly 
as the MP code.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Texture compression experiments in plib

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis L. Olson wrote:

I'd be interested in working with the Tiger data as well.  Did you 
create any code to parse/chop the data?


If I had a chance to work through the process I might be able to track 
down some of these problems/issues.


I got myself a copy of the 2004 Tiger data in shapefile format from 
http://xastir.tamu.edu/2004/ (which unfortunately seems to be down at 
the moment) - I'm sure it's available elsewhere.


Then I used ogr2ogr (from the gdal package) to extract the information I 
was interested in from the shapefiles, and fed it to shape-decode. This 
can probably be done far more efficiently if shape-decode is modified to 
understand the Tiger data types. Sorry for the linebreaks:


ogr2ogr -where "CFCC like 'A11' or CFCC like 'A21'" 
split/CA_San_Francisco_County-Motorway.shp CA_San_Francisco_County.shp


shape-decode --line-width 35 --max-segment 1000 split/$root-Motorway 
$work/Tiger-Motorways Freeway


That gives you a directory full of polygons that you can then feed to 
the tilebuilders.


Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] VFR scenery

[Jon Stockill]

Christian Mayer wrote:


The town screenshots look great. (If you don't know, FGFS is also
improving at that area in a very fast pace: http://fgfsdb.stockill.org/
tells me that we've got over 14 objects with over 200 models all
over the world already)

You could try to model a few buildings and add them to the FGFSDB.


If anyone has any objects which they've modelled for X-Plane, and you're 
happy to release them under the GPL for inclusion in flightgear then 
there's a plugin available for Blender which will import X-Plane objects 
(and even aircraft) allowing you to export them as AC3D files for use in 
flightgear.


Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

Frederic Bouvier wrote:

Selon Martin Spott:



Josh Babcock wrote:



Would it be feasible instead to have an entry in the new object's xml
file listing some exact coordinates at which any existing objects should
be removed from the scene-graph? That would be transparent to the user


[...]

 but this solution implements a really dirty hack. The Scenery
Objects Database is supposed to deliver a consistent set of scenery
objects, there's definitely nothing that the user should be expected to
fix elsewhere.
If you know the location(s) of the arbitrary objects that are being
replaced by your contribution, simply tell these to the person who
committed your contribution (Jon in this case). He'll take care for
that by entering certain data that is supposed to handle these
'overrides'. We already did that with all those objects that are
situated in the SFO and Chicaco areas (thanks to Frederic for the great
support).



There is the object database browser for that :
http://fgfsdb.stockill.org/objects.php

You can enter a filter to restrict the list and then visually compare longitude
and latitude.


If you look the objects you want to replace up on the page referenced 
above, and give me the number in brackets then it makes it very easy to 
replace (that number is the FAA or FCC object ID).


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

dene maxwell wrote:
Unfortunately Jon has his FGFSDB email disabledwhat forum do we 
contact him on?


I do?

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

Frederic Bouvier wrote:


There is the object database browser for that :
http://fgfsdb.stockill.org/objects.php

You can enter a filter to restrict the list and then visually compare longitude
and latitude.


If you look up the objects you want to replace as described above and 
let me know the numbers in brackets (that's the FAA or FCC id) then it 
makes replacing the objects VERY easy.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

Jon Stockill wrote:

If you look up the objects you want to replace as described above and 
let me know the numbers in brackets (that's the FAA or FCC id) then it 
makes replacing the objects VERY easy.


Apologies for the duplicate - I managed to run out of RAM and kill 
thunderbird while it was trying to send that mail.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

dene maxwell wrote:

Yeap you do refer attached or
[Snip]
Name: Jon Stockill

EMail: *disabled*


I'm primarily interested in bulk population of the objects database from 
various data sources - if you have access to such a resource then I'd be 
happy to help you import it.


Models will usually be the types of objects described by the datasets 
mentioned above, although I'll also add the odd landmark from time to time.

[snip]


, unless you want everything to go via Devel mailing list?


From the front page of http://fgfsdb.stockill.org:


By Email
Send a message containing the info above, to (sorry for the anti spam
measures, I'm sure you understand):
fgfsdb at stockill dot org
or
Martin dot Spott at mgras dot net

You could of course also mail me at the address I use to post to the list.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

Frederic Bouvier wrote:


A search by position bounding box would be really cool.


Until I get chance to add that you can actually search by partial 
lat/lon - so for example searching with lat=50.1 would return everything 
from 51.0 to 51.9


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

Norman Vine wrote:

Jon Stockill writes:


Frederic Bouvier wrote:



A search by position bounding box would be really cool.


Until I get chance to add that you can actually search by partial 
lat/lon - so for example searching with lat=50.1 would return everything 
from 51.0 to 51.9



repeat after me  PostGIS  PostGIS  ...  :-)


mysql :-P

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:


 is already in the works. I've already started designing a plan on
how to convince Jon  :-)


I've yet to investigate the GIS stuff in mysql.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New scenery

[Jon Stockill]

Josh Babcock wrote:

This glideslope looks a bit under the weather. It's at the southwest
corner of KADW.
http://jrbabcock.home.comcast.net/flightgear/fgfs-screen-002.jpg


The navaids were all placed at ground level - since the new scenery has 
been created using new SRTM data, and the airport generator has changed 
there will be problems like this - but obviously I couldn't do anything 
about it before the scenery was released.



I also noticed that there are airport beacon models placed at the end of
each runway just inside the inner markers. Are these supposed to be
something else, and just got placed with the wrong models?


Not so much the wrong model. More the fact that we don't have a model 
for an inner marker. I know what outer/middle markers look like - and 
there's an appropriate model. We still need inner markers and localiser 
models (at the moment the glidescope transmitter is used for localiser 
positions).


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] NAVAIDS ???

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis L. Olson wrote:
Hmmm, it appears that Robin added a range field to the data file, and 
embarasingly, I didn't not notice before updating the data file.  I see 
if I can get that straightened out here.


That caught me out too, however I now have a script to import the 
current format into the scenery object database, and I've finished 
downloading the new scenery. I can take 2 approaches to placing the 
objects - I can put them at the elevation determined by the values 
stored in the file, or I can sit them on the terrain surface. Given that 
we'll still have some variations it makes sense to sit them on the 
terrain at the relevant position (which is how it was done last time).


So with any luck I should have a full update of all the navaids in the 
database with correct elevations by this weekend.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] NAVAIDS ???

[Jon Stockill]

Jon Stockill wrote:

So with any luck I should have a full update of all the navaids in the 
database with correct elevations by this weekend.


It seems I don't have any luck at the moment.

I've just discovered that when using the null fdm I'm not getting 
updates to /position/ground-elev-m any more. So I can't actually 
retrieve the terrain elevation. Is there somewhere else in the property 
tree I could read this from?


Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] NAVAIDS ???

[Jon Stockill]

Curtis L. Olson wrote:

Hmmm, ouch, ground_cache issues?  This was added by others so I don't 
understand it enough to know if this could be the issue or not.  Might 
be something to look at though ...


Well using the UFO, without specifying fdm=null seems to work. Just got 
to hope the UFO doesn't drift at all.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] two scenery ideas

[Jon Stockill]

Mark wrote:

Since there is already a PostGIS database for custom scenery
contribution in work, I assume this maybe could be added to that database?

I agree that localized textures would be a big improvement. The city
textures look good for locations in the states, but not realistic for
Europe.
But I can't see why we shouldn't use more of the landcover types anyway
if we would have suitable textures.
This would add to more diversity.


We have a more european city texture already - just no way of using it 
on anything but a global scale - allocating some of the spare land use 
types to the textures we already have would be a good first step.


Jon


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Re: 0.9.10 Scenery Quirks (was Re: [Flightgear-devel] Discussion: next FlightGear release.)

[Jon Stockill]

David Megginson wrote:

On 28/01/06, Curtis L. Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Now that the v0.9.10 scenery is done.  I would like to start thinking
about the next FlightGear release which will be called v0.9.10 to match
the scenery.



I've been using the new scenery, and have noticed some quirks -- for
example, the Tower Bridge in London is oriented east-west instead of


Fixed - it'll be exported at midnight GMT.

north-south, and Manhattan is populated by giant electrical towers. 
Are these just quirks in the input databases, or might they point to


That could be either incorrect entries in the FAA database, or we've 
misinterpreted that should be there - it's not a code issue.


Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] NAVAIDS ???

[Jon Stockill]

Mathias Fröhlich wrote:

Jon,

On Tuesday 24 January 2006 22:45, Jon Stockill wrote:


I've just discovered that when using the null fdm I'm not getting
updates to /position/ground-elev-m any more. So I can't actually
retrieve the terrain elevation. Is there somewhere else in the property
tree I could read this from?


The attached patch should fix your problem.


Yup - that's great - the values are updating now.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Request for comments: Airway database

[Jon Stockill]

Durk Talsma wrote:

I agree, but for display purposes just loading a memory image of the Robin 
Peel database would probably suffice. I.e. there wouldn't be a need for 
setting up an intricate network of nodes and connections as I'm currently 
doing for the ground network. Therefore, I'm considering loading the airway 
data straight into flightgear, while preserving the networked version for a 
flightplan utility.


It *may* be useful to have your version available - being able to load a 
pre-planned route into the GPS for any given destination would certainly 
be a very nice feature. It really depends how much processing would be 
involved to extract a route I suppose. This type of routing info 
certainly has further applications.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Extraneous building?

[Jon Stockill]

John Wojnaroski wrote:

FYI

Haven't been to KSFO for a while, but don't think this structure belongs 
here ;-)


Perhaps something smaller that may have been mis-identified during file 
generation. See 942050.stg


OBJECT_SHARED Models/fgfsdb/generic_skyscraper_09.ac -122.3775000 
37.6186110 -465.86 180


You may want to grab the latest objects files from 
http://fgfsdb.stockill.org - that one has already been removed.


Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A/C Tractors 3D Models

[Jon Stockill]

Roberto Inzerillo wrote:

Hi people,
 in case you like populating ground airport traffic with vehicles I made 
two tractors in .ac format. They are a FMC B-1200 and a KAMAG 
TowBear_TT. They're free, I release them under GPL license :-)


 Sorry, they're not very low-poly :-)



http://www.geocities.com/robitabu/3dmodels/TowBear_TT_thumbnail.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/robitabu/3dmodels/B-1200.zip

http://www.geocities.com/robitabu/3dmodels/B-1200_thumbnail.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/robitabu/3dmodels/TowBear_TT.zip


I've added these to the scenery object database - if anyone wants to 
submit positions for a few then I'm happy to add them.


Similarly there's a selection of generic storage tanks added to the 
database too - which make adding fuel farms to airports nice and easy 
(I've added them to KSFO and KOAK already - although some of them do 
appear to float due to coastline issues).


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A/C Tractors 3D Models

[Jon Stockill]

Martin Spott wrote:


I had the same idea but encouraged Roberto to try to create low-poly
models for easier use on crowded airports. I'm happy to tell you that
he already followed my suggestion and I'll replace the geometries soon.


No problem - it's easy enough to replace the model, and I wasn't really 
expecting whole fleets of them :-)


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