Re: [Framers] from Monique - thanks and good bye!

[tammyvb spectrumwritingllc . com]

Monique,

I am right there with you every way - I am semi retired but I agree with how 
much this list saved my sanity!

Enjoy your well-deserved retirement and thank you for all your help on this 
list!

TVB
Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> On Apr 19, 2022, at 5:38 PM, Scott Prentice  wrote:
> 
> [her post to the list was unsuccessful, and she asked me to forward]
> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message ----
> Subject: thanks, and good bye
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:23:58 -0700
> From: Monique Semp
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Like many of you on this list, I've remained long after I stopped using 
> FrameMaker for my work. You're a wonderfully knowledgeable, generous, and 
> helpful bunch!
> 
> Without you, my FrameMaker docs would have been so much less polished 
> looking, and I'd have a lot less (now-mostly-gray) hair due to that common 
> Adobe-user experience of pulling one's hair out every time a computer/license 
> transfer was needed!
> 
> I'll be retiring from tech writing/tech very shortly, and so am unsubscribing 
> from the many lists and groups that have so strongly contributed to my 
> success in this field.
> 
> I'll keep my LinkedIn profile (https://www.linkedin.com/in/moniquesemp/), and 
> will happily remain connected that way.
> 
> Thanks again, to everyone in this community,
> -Monique
> 
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[Framers] from Monique - thanks and good bye!

[Scott Prentice]

[her post to the list was unsuccessful, and she asked me to forward]


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:     thanks, and good bye
Date:     Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:23:58 -0700
From:     Monique Semp
To:     framers@lists.frameusers.com


Hi everyone,

Like many of you on this list, I've remained long after I stopped using 
FrameMaker for my work. You're a wonderfully knowledgeable, generous, 
and helpful bunch!


Without you, my FrameMaker docs would have been so much less polished 
looking, and I'd have a lot less (now-mostly-gray) hair due to that 
common Adobe-user experience of pulling one's hair out every time a 
computer/license transfer was needed!


I'll be retiring from tech writing/tech very shortly, and so am 
unsubscribing from the many lists and groups that have so strongly 
contributed to my success in this field.


I'll keep my LinkedIn profile 
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/moniquesemp/), and will happily remain 
connected that way.


Thanks again, to everyone in this community,
-Monique

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Re: [Framers] Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.

[Lin Sims]

There is! It's not automated as part of the import, though. After you
import, you open the File > Utilities menu and use the Split Current
Document. Then you have to choose which tag is used to signal the start of
a new file.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 12:05 PM Caroline Tabach 
wrote:

> I do not have the new Frame 2020, but they say there is a new feature that
> will allow you to split the imported Word doc into separate Frame files
>
> Caroline Tabach
>
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 15:09 IC30 Barry Meislin, 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.
> > 
> > The privileged confidential information contained in this email is
> > intended for use only by the addressees as indicated by the original
> sender
> > of this email. If you are not the addressee indicated in this email or
> are
> > not responsible for delivery of the email to such a person, please kindly
> > reply to the sender indicating this fact and delete all copies of it from
> > your computer and network server immediately. Your cooperation is highly
> > appreciated. It is advised that any unauthorized use of confidential
> > information of Nuvoton is strictly prohibited; and any information in
> this
> > email irrelevant to the official business of Nuvoton shall be deemed as
> > neither given nor endorsed by Nuvoton.
> > ___
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-- 
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Re: [Framers] Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.

[Caroline Tabach]

I do not have the new Frame 2020, but they say there is a new feature that
will allow you to split the imported Word doc into separate Frame files

Caroline Tabach

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 15:09 IC30 Barry Meislin, 
wrote:

> Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.
> 
> The privileged confidential information contained in this email is
> intended for use only by the addressees as indicated by the original sender
> of this email. If you are not the addressee indicated in this email or are
> not responsible for delivery of the email to such a person, please kindly
> reply to the sender indicating this fact and delete all copies of it from
> your computer and network server immediately. Your cooperation is highly
> appreciated. It is advised that any unauthorized use of confidential
> information of Nuvoton is strictly prohibited; and any information in this
> email irrelevant to the official business of Nuvoton shall be deemed as
> neither given nor endorsed by Nuvoton.
> ___
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Re: [Framers] Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.

[Lin Sims]

If you used styles in your Word document and have tags set up in a Frame
template, the easiest way is to open a new Frame document based on your
Frame template and use File > Import > File, Import by Copy. That will open
the Word Import dialog that allows you to map Word styles to Framemaker
tags. Once you've done that, click OK and the Word document will import.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 8:09 AM IC30 Barry Meislin <
barry.meis...@nuvoton.com> wrote:

> Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.
> 
> The privileged confidential information contained in this email is
> intended for use only by the addressees as indicated by the original sender
> of this email. If you are not the addressee indicated in this email or are
> not responsible for delivery of the email to such a person, please kindly
> reply to the sender indicating this fact and delete all copies of it from
> your computer and network server immediately. Your cooperation is highly
> appreciated. It is advised that any unauthorized use of confidential
> information of Nuvoton is strictly prohibited; and any information in this
> email irrelevant to the official business of Nuvoton shall be deemed as
> neither given nor endorsed by Nuvoton.
> ___
>
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>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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-- 
Lin Sims
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[Framers] Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.

[IC30 Barry Meislin]

Hi, what is the best way to convert from MSWord docx to FM 19? Thanks.

The privileged confidential information contained in this email is intended for 
use only by the addressees as indicated by the original sender of this email. 
If you are not the addressee indicated in this email or are not responsible for 
delivery of the email to such a person, please kindly reply to the sender 
indicating this fact and delete all copies of it from your computer and network 
server immediately. Your cooperation is highly appreciated. It is advised that 
any unauthorized use of confidential information of Nuvoton is strictly 
prohibited; and any information in this email irrelevant to the official 
business of Nuvoton shall be deemed as neither given nor endorsed by Nuvoton.
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[Framers] Thanks for input re upgrading Frame

[Wendy McGovern]

Hello, Framers,

Just wanted to thank everyone who replied to my questions about upgrading to 
Frame 2019. The input from this list is invaluable and is one of the best 
things about using Frame. Hope everyone is doing okay!

Wendy



[Pennsylvania Bar Institute]


Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
5080 Ritter Rd, Mechanicsburg, PA 17055
(E) wmcgov...@pbi.org  (P) 717-620-6257
(P) 800-932-4637, ext. 6257  (F) 717-796-2348
www.pbi.org




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[Framers] thanks - for prev. fonts help

[Monique Semp]

Hello, Framers,

Just a quick note of thanks to the many of you who have shared your knowledge 
and advice for so many years on this list!

As you can tell from my recent spate of messages, I’m doing a big cleanup of 
templates and docs. I ran into an odd (to me) issue with the fonts. A font 
appeared in the Fonts pod, and I could “locate” it, but even though the 
FrameMaker toolbars showed that “something” was that font, there wasn’t any 
content to see.

So I searched the Framers archives, and found the answer 
(http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/msg60721.html): the 
font was in a now-non-existent para style in a table title. The style didn’t 
appear in the actual .fm file (I’d deleted it many years ago), but when I saved 
as MIF and opened the MIF in Notepad++, I found it. I deleted the element, 
resaved as .fm, and everything’s gold!

So thanks for helping our the tech writing community!
-Monique


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Re: [Framers] Shrinkwrapping - THANKS

[Craig, Alison]

Thanks for all the answers. 

When I have time to explore I may look at the add-ons mentioned by several 
people. Until then, I'll have to live with editing the 0.353 mm edge out of the 
frames.

And Klaus is correct... If Adobe is listening, they should reveal this - and 
other - hard coded settings. Even better would to make the hard-coded settings 
user-definable so those of not gifted in scripting could simply set them up as 
desired.

Thanks, Alison 



-Original Message-

On 4/1/2016 5:52 PM, Craig, Alison wrote:
> I've never used the graphics shrinkwrap option so when I tried it out 
> yesterday I was surprised to find that it left a margin of 0.353mm around the 
> edges.
>
> Is there a way to set this margin to zero? I couldn't find anything in the 
> Frame 12 user documentation.
>


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[Framers] Thanks

[Michael Norton]

Thanks for getting this going again.




Michael Norton | Lead Technical Writer | o: (678) 527.5412| f: (678) 264.0908
Connect with OpenSpan:  
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/OpenSpan/150017781771919> | 
Twitter<https://twitter.com/openspan> | 
Linkedin<http://www.linkedin.com/company/openspan>

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Unable to allocate ... bytes for color profile: .thanks for solutions and update

[Robert CH Shell]

Dear Framers:
Just a note of appreciation for Steve Rickaby and the people who posted
solutions and an update from me

As suggested, I used the adobe colour profiles zip, copied and pasted all
the profiles into the spool directory even though file sizes were the same,
i.e. same size. Several new colour profiles added themselves.

I could discount the graphic problem as there was only one.

So I ran the whole thing again and had a partial success , a workable pdf
with a confusing message, viz.

[ Not enough memory. Please retry with these features turned off:
optimize CompressObjects ]
Distill Time: 06 Hour(s) : 33 Minute(s) : 44.526 Second(s)
 End of Job 

While the .pdf was working, i.e. indexes operational and clickable, the
entries had little similarity to the real page number. 

Pringle, John 39870, 39939, 39979 to 39980,
391095, 391561, 391569, 391576, 391654,
391753, 391834, 391906, 391990, 392109 to
392110, 392186, 392203, 392206, 392218,
392227, 392230, 392238, 392284 to 392285,
392349, 392352, 392422, 392459, 392648,
392652, 392695, 392786, 392796, 392815 to
392816, 392818, 392931 to 392932, 392943,
392997, 393084, 393137, 393217, 393401 to
393402, 393405, 393557, 393609, 394790,
395027, 396086, 397120, 3911105, 3911567,
3912162, 3912164, 3916307, 3916675,
3916941, 3917097, 3917872, 3918833,
3922812 to 3922813, 3922829, 3924914,
3924972, 3925000, 3925081, 3925143,
3925151, 3925153, 3925158, 3925162,
3925164, 3925170, 3925174, 3925176,
3925181, 3925186 to 3925188, 3925285,
3925627, 3925646
Conclusions: I must break the files into smaller units and hope the page
numbers return.

Anyway, thanks again
8 gigabytes not enough
Progress is possible.

Rob

Rob Shell
rsh...@iafrica.com
rsh...@uwc.ac.za
shell.robert@gmail.com

computer rig:
PC
8 Gbyte
3 terrabyte drives
Windows 7 
64 bit
TCS 4
Creative suite CS4
Flash Professional



**


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thanks from long time lurker

[Jay Maechtlen]

Actually, I hardly even lurked, as I almost never used Frame.
But my new gig has me working in Frame 9, among other things.
And I couldn't get the dumb PDF to show the printers marks.

A quick search in the folder where I keep all these messages, and I had 
an answer - turn off the generate Acrobat Data setting, and voila - 
printer marks.

Thanks!
Jay

--
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626 444-5112 office
626 840-8875 cell
www.laserpubs.com

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Thanks to all!

[Paquet, Becky (IS)]

I got so many helpful responses to my request yesterday. Thank you to everyone. 
I'd be lost without you.


Rebecca S. Paquet
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Thanks to all!

[Paquet, Becky (IS)]

I got so many helpful responses to my request yesterday. Thank you to everyone. 
I'd be lost without you.


Rebecca S. Paquet

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

at should have 
>>>>> been done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet 
>>>>> announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, 
>>>>> and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of 
>>>>> licenses) from their multi-year update licensing system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today, *all* my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am 
>>>>> /only/ using it for maintaining and changing old documents, and if 
>>>>> the change is large enough, I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a 
>>>>> couple of days ? even for the large documents ? and then I am fine 
>>>>> for the future! In time, all my old documents will be moved from 
>>>>> FrameMaker.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks 
>>>>> quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they 
>>>>> made me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, 
>>>>> I would do it! J)
>>>>>
>>>>> For now, /for my needs (which may not apply to everybody)/, a 
>>>>> combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
>>>>> pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
>>>>> proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
>>>>> FrameMaker, but the costly ?upgrades? of FrameMaker is not 
>>>>> acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** 
>>>>> look-and-feel consistency in my specifications ? formatting is 
>>>>> separate from text entry ? and I value that highly. It was my 
>>>>> reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12 years ago for 
>>>>> my current company.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, and good luck!
>>>>>
>>>>> Z
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:*framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
>>>>> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of 
>>>>> *Joseph Lorenzini
>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
>>>>> *To:* FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com
>>>>> *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
>>>>> FrameMaker to Flare
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
>>>>> thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that 
>>>>> FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super 
>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving 
>>>>> this community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a 
>>>>> replacement. Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I 
>>>>> think that there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great 
>>>>> solution for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why 
>>>>> I made this choice were driven by a specific business and use case
>>>>>
>>>>> There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to 
>>>>> grow quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a 
>>>>> gigantic post about why I am not using its tool anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of 
>>>>> interest to others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed 
>>>>> explanation and are curious to learn more, I would be happy to 
>>>>> share those details with you offline. Feel free to email me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph Lorenzini
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are currently subscribed to framers as alan at alphabyte.co.nz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>>>>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>>>>> or visit 
>>>>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz
>>>>>
>>>>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>>>>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>>>>
>>

-- 
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Are you saying that TeXLive is sort of a flavor of LaTex, not an editor 
like TeXstudio?

Is it compatible with TeXstudio?
Do you use an authoring tool with TeXLive other that a simple text editor?

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

On 29-Oct-13 8:15 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:

Hiya,

TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc. 
typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on 
vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are 
for Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux 
flavours.


It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso 
and making a dvd or mounting and installing from there, or by joining 
TUG and getting a free DVD with your membership.


Regular/constant updates are obtained from a range of ctan mirror 
sites around the globe.


The LaTeX, etc. typesetting systems are really a composition of macros 
(packages) and various supporting binaries built upon the TeX 
typesetting system. The packages are binaries are all supported by and 
army of volunteers and there is a mechanism for additional packages to 
be contributed. That means if you area having issues with a package 
you can often email the maintainer direct or you can open it in a text 
editor and fix it yourself if you are skilled.


Traditionally, TeX has used the ASCII character set but more modern 
systems now use all available font systems, for example LuaTeX and 
XeTeX are designed to use OpenType fonts.


Other packages allow for output to multimedia players too.

Alan


On 29/10/13 9:54 PM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:

What exactly is TeXLiv? They don't explain it very well on the site.

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
052-763-7133

On 28-Oct-13 8:48 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have 
been using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.


I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue 
to request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I 
doubt I will be taking any short term licensing options because 
files are not created for short term use.


Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant 
user base.


Alan



On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:


Hi, Joseph.

You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker … if you look 
at my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I 
have been using it since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list 
for old times sake, though. J


Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail – 
would like to know /your/ decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) 
recent over-pricing for some version upgrades that should have been 
done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet 
announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, 
and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) 
from their multi-year update licensing system.


Today, *all* my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am 
/only/ using it for maintaining and changing old documents, and if 
the change is large enough, I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a 
couple of days – even for the large documents – and then I am fine 
for the future! In time, all my old documents will be moved from 
FrameMaker.


However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks 
quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they 
made me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I 
would do it! J)


For now, /for my needs (which may not apply to everybody)/, a 
combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
FrameMaker, but the costly “upgrades” of FrameMaker is not 
acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.


BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** 
look-and-feel consistency in my specifications – formatting is 
separate from text entry – and I value that highly. It was my 
reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12 years ago for my 
current company.


Regards, and good luck!

Z

*From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph 
Lorenzini

*Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
*To:* FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
FrameMaker to Flare


Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM 
was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.


So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving 
this community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a 
replacement. Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[gr...@hedgewizard.net]

My biggest kvetch about all the structured doc tools I've seen (and I've been
using them as far back as IBM's BookMaster) is that they generally output like
sausage machines.
All the text is simply extruded onto the page, with no awareness of how people
read documents or process information.

It is true that s ome output processors/digesters can be instructed on how to
handle things such as widows and orphans, and even some semi-intelligent
hyphenation.  But none of them (in my experience) produce layouts anywhere as
near good as what even a moderately-educated human can do. (kerning, leading,
knowing what chunks need to stay together to be useful, etc. )

Their output is OK for very small chunk information like help pages, but
dreadful for any document that requires more than that.
I'm not completely opposed to them; using such tools  helps writing teams
standardize things --- and DITA (as a philosophy of information organization)
does help rationalize what can otherwise be messy organization. And they can
help with reuse (but not as much as you might think, once you start factoring in
the overhead of finding the resuable chunks, and then writing around them so
that they don't read like an undigested lump in the middle of your prose!)

Grant

 On October 29, 2013 at 9:30 AM Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote:


 Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving
 away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA,
 S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools.
 Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for
 output (for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going
 full circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting
 era. That is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always
 separated authoring and rendering.

 Rick Quatro

 ➢ Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that
 way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)

 ➢ Mike Wickham
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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Robert Lauriston]

Lots of structured authoring tools, including FrameMaker, offer a
WYSIWYG presentation. I don't see people moving away from that since
it's a lot more efficient to fix formatting problems on the fly.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Rick Quatro r...@rickquatro.com wrote:
 Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving 
 away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, 
 S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. 
 Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for 
 output (for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going 
 full circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting 
 era. That is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always 
 separated authoring and rendering.
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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish

[Michael Norton]

Rick Quatro wrote:

Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving 
away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, 
S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. 
Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for output 
(for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going full 
circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting era. That 
is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always separated 
authoring and rendering.

As someone who started out in the days of WordPerfect 1.0 (for DG) and mark-up 
languages. The thought of going back to that environment seems strange. I too 
have been disappointed with Frame's progress under Adobe's tutelage, but I'd 
still rather use it than any other tool out there. Flare is an interesting 
option though and I hope to hear the reasons why that move was made. At a 
previous gig, we adopted Flare as our HAT and looked into moving to it 
completely. The PDF publishing capabilities we wanted were not there at that 
time and there were some issues with bugs. Perhaps that has improved now. If I 
remember correctly, Flare wasn't exactly cheap either.

The ability to format the text I'm working with and merge pictures I can see 
and annotate into it has never hindered my ability to write. Layout and design 
are part of the message I am trying to deliver.




Michael Norton | Technical Writer
o: (678) 527.5412 | f: (678) 264.0908
Connect with OpenSpan:  
Facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/OpenSpan/150017781771919 | 
Twitterhttps://twitter.com/openspan | 
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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Michael,

 

My comment was made as an observation, not necessarily an endorsement. I
really like FrameMaker's hybrid approach: you can have structure (XML) and
WSIWYG at the same time. Also, FrameMaker's EDD model for context-sensitive
formatting of structured is brilliant.

 

I also like the print-engine model: author and edit in any XML tool you
want and use FrameMaker (or InDesign) as a rendering engine for your
high-quality print and PDF output.

 

Rick

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Michael Norton
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:26 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish

 

Rick Quatro wrote:

 

Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving
away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with
DITA, S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools.
Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for
output (for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going
full circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting
era. That is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always
separated authoring and rendering.

 

As someone who started out in the days of WordPerfect 1.0 (for DG) and
mark-up languages. The thought of going back to that environment seems
strange. I too have been disappointed with Frame's progress under Adobe's
tutelage, but I'd still rather use it than any other tool out there. Flare
is an interesting option though and I hope to hear the reasons why that move
was made. At a previous gig, we adopted Flare as our HAT and looked into
moving to it completely. The PDF publishing capabilities we wanted were not
there at that time and there were some issues with bugs. Perhaps that has
improved now. If I remember correctly, Flare wasn't exactly cheap either.

 

The ability to format the text I'm working with and merge pictures I can see
and annotate into it has never hindered my ability to write. Layout and
design are part of the message I am trying to deliver. 

 

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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Fred Ridder]

No, he's saying that TeX Live (the name is officially two words, BTW, which is 
kind of refreshing in the CamelCaseWorld of TeX and LaTeX) is a *distribution* 
of TeX, in the same sense that Debian and Ubuntu and Fedora (from Red Hat) are 
distributions of Linux. TeX Live is a collection of non-proprietary tools, 
utilities, and packages (the official TeX name for macro add-ons that enhance 
functionality by adding new commands, options, and formatting capabilities) 
from diverse sources that is wrapped up as a unified installation. TeX Live 
includes an editor, but it is not their own tool; for the Windows and OS X TeX 
Live distributions, the included editor is TeXworks. 

TeX Live is probably the most widely used TeX distribution because it is the 
default TeX distro in most of the major Linux distributions and several Unix 
distributions. But there are other popular TeX distros, too. For example, some 
groups at my current employer have a Doxygen-based document generation process 
used that is built around the MiKTeX distribution, which uses the TeXnicCenter 
editor. And there is a kind of super-distribution for Mac OS X (MacTeX) that 
includes the whole TeX Live distro along with an alternative editor (TeXShop), 
a bibliography manager, and some other Mac-specific TeX tools. 

Distros don't make it as simple as keeping track of a version number and a 
patch number for a single tool, but at least they provides some consistency and 
coordination in the TeX chaos of hundreds of separate pieces of software from 
dozens of different sources...

-Fred Ridder


 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:46:18 +0200
 From: shmue...@gmail.com
 To: a...@alphabyte.co.nz; framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker 
 to Flare
 
 Are you saying that TeXLive is sort of a flavor of LaTex, not an editor 
 like TeXstudio?
 Is it compatible with TeXstudio?
 Do you use an authoring tool with TeXLive other that a simple text editor?
 
 Regards,
 Shmuel Wolfson
 Technical Writer
 052-763-7133
 
 On 29-Oct-13 8:15 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
  Hiya,
 
  TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc. 
  typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on 
  vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are 
  for Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux 
  flavours.
 
  It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso 
  and making a dvd or mounting and installing from there, or by joining 
  TUG and getting a free DVD with your membership.
 
  Regular/constant updates are obtained from a range of ctan mirror 
  sites around the globe.
 
  The LaTeX, etc. typesetting systems are really a composition of macros 
  (packages) and various supporting binaries built upon the TeX 
  typesetting system. The packages are binaries are all supported by and 
  army of volunteers and there is a mechanism for additional packages to 
  be contributed. That means if you area having issues with a package 
  you can often email the maintainer direct or you can open it in a text 
  editor and fix it yourself if you are skilled.
 
  Traditionally, TeX has used the ASCII character set but more modern 
  systems now use all available font systems, for example LuaTeX and 
  XeTeX are designed to use OpenType fonts.
 
  Other packages allow for output to multimedia players too.
 
  Alan
 
 
  On 29/10/13 9:54 PM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
  What exactly is TeXLiv? They don't explain it very well on the site.
 
  Regards,
  Shmuel Wolfson
  052-763-7133
 
  On 28-Oct-13 8:48 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
  Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have 
  been using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.
 
  I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue 
  to request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I 
  doubt I will be taking any short term licensing options because 
  files are not created for short term use.
 
  Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant 
  user base.
 
  Alan
 
 
 
  On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:
 
  Hi, Joseph.
 
  You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker … if you look 
  at my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I 
  have been using it since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list 
  for old times sake, though. J
 
  Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail – 
  would like to know /your/ decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) 
  recent over-pricing for some version upgrades that should have been 
  done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet 
  announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, 
  and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) 
  from their multi-year update licensing system.
 
  Today, *all* my new documents are no longer

RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Fred,

You have described TeX Live very well, so I will only add a few more words 
based on my recent experiences with it.


1.  Although there are a few distributions listed on the CTAN web site, the 
TeX Live package has proven effective for me, even though they recommended a 
different one for Windows.

2.  The download is large.

3.  It was easy to install.

4.  You can get confused about which packages to install - my solution was 
simple: install everything! :)

5.  Periodically running the TeX Live manager to update packages is simple. 
It hides the complexity of maintaining versions, etc.

a.  Updates are incremental - only the packages that have changed are 
downloaded and added.

6.  After installing TeX Live, I used the included TeXworks editor for a 
few days and chose to look for an alternative.

7.  I settled on TeXstudio because of a few reasons (which may not apply to 
everybody, of course):

a.  Has an excellent mechanism to manage included input files - 
conceptually similar to a book in FrameMaker.

b.  Very easy addition of simpler LaTeX commands into the input files using 
menu buttons.

c.  As you type, an entry completion system allows finding and adding the 
LaTeX instruction and parameters very easily.

d.  The usual color-coded GUI editor to separate LaTeX commands from your 
own text.

e.  Rapid PDF generation. On my year-old laptop, generates PDF from 100 
page docs in 1 or 2 seconds. The screen automatically splits to show source and 
PDF side-by-side instantly.

f.   Super-fast ability to see the PDF output from changes to the input 
source text.

g.  Mouse menu items to jump to the source for this line of PDF output 
and jump to the PDF for this line of source text.

Hope this helps,

Z

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:52 AM
To: shmu...@excalibur.co.il; Alan Litchfield; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to 
Flare

No, he's saying that TeX Live (the name is officially two words, BTW, which is 
kind of refreshing in the CamelCaseWorld of TeX and LaTeX) is a *distribution* 
of TeX, in the same sense that Debian and Ubuntu and Fedora (from Red Hat) are 
distributions of Linux. TeX Live is a collection of non-proprietary tools, 
utilities, and packages (the official TeX name for macro add-ons that enhance 
functionality by adding new commands, options, and formatting capabilities) 
from diverse sources that is wrapped up as a unified installation. TeX Live 
includes an editor, but it is not their own tool; for the Windows and OS X TeX 
Live distributions, the included editor is TeXworks.

TeX Live is probably the most widely used TeX distribution because it is the 
default TeX distro in most of the major Linux distributions and several Unix 
distributions. But there are other popular TeX distros, too. For example, some 
groups at my current employer have a Doxygen-based document generation process 
used that is built around the MiKTeX distribution, which uses the TeXnicCenter 
editor. And there is a kind of super-distribution for Mac OS X (MacTeX) that 
includes the whole TeX Live distro along with an alternative editor (TeXShop), 
a bibliography manager, and some other Mac-specific TeX tools.

Distros don't make it as simple as keeping track of a version number and a 
patch number for a single tool, but at least they provides some consistency and 
coordination in the TeX chaos of hundreds of separate pieces of software from 
dozens of different sources...

-Fred Ridder

 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:46:18 +0200
 From: shmue...@gmail.commailto:shmue...@gmail.com
 To: a...@alphabyte.co.nzmailto:a...@alphabyte.co.nz; 
 framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to 
 Flare

 Are you saying that TeXLive is sort of a flavor of LaTex, not an editor
 like TeXstudio?
 Is it compatible with TeXstudio?
 Do you use an authoring tool with TeXLive other that a simple text editor?

 Regards,
 Shmuel Wolfson
 Technical Writer
 052-763-7133

 On 29-Oct-13 8:15 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
  Hiya,
 
  TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc.
  typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on
  vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are
  for Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux
  flavours.
 
  It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso
  and making a dvd or mounting and installing from there, or by joining
  TUG and getting a free DVD with your membership.
 
  Regular/constant updates are obtained from a range of ctan mirror
  sites around the globe.
 
  The LaTeX, etc. typesetting systems are really a composition of macros
  (packages

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

 of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
FrameMaker, but the costly “upgrades” of FrameMaker is not 
acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.


BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** 
look-and-feel consistency in my specifications – formatting is 
separate from text entry – and I value that highly. It was my 
reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12 years ago for 
my current company.


Regards, and good luck!

Z

*From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Joseph Lorenzini

*Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
*To:* FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
FrameMaker to Flare


Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that 
FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super 
helpful.


So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving 
this community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a 
replacement. Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I 
think that there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great 
solution for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why 
I made this choice were driven by a specific business and use case


There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to 
grow quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a 
gigantic post about why I am not using its tool anymore.


That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of 
interest to others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed 
explanation and are curious to learn more, I would be happy to 
share those details with you offline. Feel free to email me.


Sincerely,

Joseph Lorenzini



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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Hiya,

TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc. 
typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on 
vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are for 
Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux flavours.

It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso and 
making a dvd or mounting and installing from there, or by joining TUG 
and getting a free DVD with your membership.

Regular/constant updates are obtained from a range of ctan mirror sites 
around the globe.

The LaTeX, etc. typesetting systems are really a composition of macros 
(packages) and various supporting binaries built upon the TeX 
typesetting system. The packages are binaries are all supported by and 
army of volunteers and there is a mechanism for additional packages to 
be contributed. That means if you area having issues with a package you 
can often email the maintainer direct or you can open it in a text 
editor and fix it yourself if you are skilled.

Traditionally, TeX has used the ASCII character set but more modern 
systems now use all available font systems, for example LuaTeX and XeTeX 
are designed to use OpenType fonts.

Other packages allow for output to multimedia players too.

Alan


On 29/10/13 9:54 PM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
> What exactly is TeXLiv? They don't explain it very well on the site.
>
> Regards,
> Shmuel Wolfson
> 052-763-7133
>
> On 28-Oct-13 8:48 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
>> Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have 
>> been using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.
>>
>> I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue 
>> to request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I 
>> doubt I will be taking any short term licensing options because files 
>> are not created for short term use.
>>
>> Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant user 
>> base.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, Joseph.
>>>
>>> You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker ? if you look 
>>> at my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have 
>>> been using it since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old 
>>> times sake, though. J
>>>
>>> Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail ? 
>>> would like to know /your/ decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) 
>>> recent over-pricing for some version upgrades that should have been 
>>> done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet 
>>> announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, 
>>> and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) 
>>> from their multi-year update licensing system.
>>>
>>> Today, *all* my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am 
>>> /only/ using it for maintaining and changing old documents, and if 
>>> the change is large enough, I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a 
>>> couple of days ? even for the large documents ? and then I am fine 
>>> for the future! In time, all my old documents will be moved from 
>>> FrameMaker.
>>>
>>> However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks 
>>> quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made 
>>> me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would 
>>> do it! J)
>>>
>>> For now, /for my needs (which may not apply to everybody)/, a 
>>> combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
>>> pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
>>> proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
>>> FrameMaker, but the costly ?upgrades? of FrameMaker is not 
>>> acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.
>>>
>>> BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** 
>>> look-and-feel consistency in my specifications ? formatting is 
>>> separate from text entry ? and I value that highly. It was my reason 
>>> for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12 years ago for my current 
>>> company.
>>>
>>> Regards, and good luck!
>>>
>>> Z
>>>
>>> *From:*framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
>>> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph 
>>> Lorenzini
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
>>> *To:* FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at 

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Unless/when print technologies change, then you might need that step. 
Until then your existing Acrobat will continue to work with the old 
license. I still run a #8 version on an old computer.

Alan



On 30/10/13 5:54 AM, Mike Wickham wrote:
> I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to 
> generate my PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, 
> but I prefer Acrobat. (That could change if Adobe takes it to a 
> subscription-only model.)
>
> Mike Wickham
>
> On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
>> At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:
>>
>>> Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will 
>>> retain fonts and formatting to display identically on every 
>>> computer. But if you want that, you want PDF-- and you probably want 
>>> Acrobat because it is the most stable and full-featured.
>> Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's 
>> become pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.
>>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as alan at alphabyte.co.nz.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

-- 
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote:
> PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
> Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - 
> Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.
>
> However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document 
> references to work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, 
> so I stopped searching for an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the 
> only reason Acrobat gets used on my system is because I have been too lazy to 
> remove it as the "default" app when I look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF 
> output from an old FrameMaker doc.

hyperref is your friend :)

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/

Alan

-- 
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Are you saying that TeXLive is sort of a flavor of LaTex, not an editor 
like TeXstudio?
Is it compatible with TeXstudio?
Do you use an authoring tool with TeXLive other that a simple text editor?

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

On 29-Oct-13 8:15 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
> Hiya,
>
> TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc. 
> typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on 
> vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are 
> for Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux 
> flavours.
>
> It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso 
> and making a dvd or mounting and installing from there, or by joining 
> TUG and getting a free DVD with your membership.
>
> Regular/constant updates are obtained from a range of ctan mirror 
> sites around the globe.
>
> The LaTeX, etc. typesetting systems are really a composition of macros 
> (packages) and various supporting binaries built upon the TeX 
> typesetting system. The packages are binaries are all supported by and 
> army of volunteers and there is a mechanism for additional packages to 
> be contributed. That means if you area having issues with a package 
> you can often email the maintainer direct or you can open it in a text 
> editor and fix it yourself if you are skilled.
>
> Traditionally, TeX has used the ASCII character set but more modern 
> systems now use all available font systems, for example LuaTeX and 
> XeTeX are designed to use OpenType fonts.
>
> Other packages allow for output to multimedia players too.
>
> Alan
>
>
> On 29/10/13 9:54 PM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
>> What exactly is TeXLiv? They don't explain it very well on the site.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Shmuel Wolfson
>> 052-763-7133
>>
>> On 28-Oct-13 8:48 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
>>> Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have 
>>> been using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.
>>>
>>> I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue 
>>> to request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I 
>>> doubt I will be taking any short term licensing options because 
>>> files are not created for short term use.
>>>
>>> Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant 
>>> user base.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Joseph.
>>>>
>>>> You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker ? if you look 
>>>> at my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I 
>>>> have been using it since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list 
>>>> for old times sake, though. J
>>>>
>>>> Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail ? 
>>>> would like to know /your/ decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) 
>>>> recent over-pricing for some version upgrades that should have been 
>>>> done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet 
>>>> announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, 
>>>> and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) 
>>>> from their multi-year update licensing system.
>>>>
>>>> Today, *all* my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am 
>>>> /only/ using it for maintaining and changing old documents, and if 
>>>> the change is large enough, I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a 
>>>> couple of days ? even for the large documents ? and then I am fine 
>>>> for the future! In time, all my old documents will be moved from 
>>>> FrameMaker.
>>>>
>>>> However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks 
>>>> quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they 
>>>> made me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I 
>>>> would do it! J)
>>>>
>>>> For now, /for my needs (which may not apply to everybody)/, a 
>>>> combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
>>>> pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
>>>> proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
>>>> FrameMaker, but the costly ?upgrades? of FrameMaker is not 
>>>> acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.
>>>>
>>>> B

So Long and Thanks for the Fish

[Michael Norton]

Rick Quatro wrote:

"Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving 
away from WSIWYG "in this century." The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, 
S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. 
Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for output 
(for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going full 
circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting era. That 
is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always separated 
authoring and rendering."

As someone who started out in the days of WordPerfect 1.0 (for DG) and mark-up 
languages. The thought of going back to that environment seems strange. I too 
have been disappointed with Frame's progress under Adobe's tutelage, but I'd 
still rather use it than any other tool out there. Flare is an interesting 
option though and I hope to hear the reasons why that move was made. At a 
previous gig, we adopted Flare as our HAT and looked into moving to it 
completely. The PDF publishing capabilities we wanted were not there at that 
time and there were some issues with bugs. Perhaps that has improved now. If I 
remember correctly, Flare wasn't exactly cheap either.

The ability to format the text I'm working with and merge pictures I can see 
and annotate into it has never hindered my ability to write. Layout and design 
are part of the message I am trying to deliver.




Michael Norton | Technical Writer
o: (678) 527.5412 | f: (678) 264.0908
Connect with OpenSpan:  
Facebook | 
Twitter | 
Linkedin

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Michael,



My comment was made as an observation, not necessarily an endorsement. I
really like FrameMaker's "hybrid" approach: you can have structure (XML) and
WSIWYG at the same time. Also, FrameMaker's EDD model for context-sensitive
formatting of structured is brilliant.



I also like the "print-engine" model: author and edit in any XML tool you
want and use FrameMaker (or InDesign) as a rendering engine for your
high-quality print and PDF output.



Rick



From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Michael Norton
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:26 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish



Rick Quatro wrote:



"Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving
away from WSIWYG "in this century." The whole XML-authoring world, with
DITA, S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools.
Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for
output (for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going
full circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting
era. That is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always
separated authoring and rendering."



As someone who started out in the days of WordPerfect 1.0 (for DG) and
mark-up languages. The thought of going back to that environment seems
strange. I too have been disappointed with Frame's progress under Adobe's
tutelage, but I'd still rather use it than any other tool out there. Flare
is an interesting option though and I hope to hear the reasons why that move
was made. At a previous gig, we adopted Flare as our HAT and looked into
moving to it completely. The PDF publishing capabilities we wanted were not
there at that time and there were some issues with bugs. Perhaps that has
improved now. If I remember correctly, Flare wasn't exactly cheap either.



The ability to format the text I'm working with and merge pictures I can see
and annotate into it has never hindered my ability to write. Layout and
design are part of the message I am trying to deliver. 



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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Fred Ridder]

No, he's saying that TeX Live (the name is officially two words, BTW, which is 
kind of refreshing in the CamelCaseWorld of TeX and LaTeX) is a *distribution* 
of TeX, in the same sense that Debian and Ubuntu and Fedora (from Red Hat) are 
distributions of Linux. TeX Live is a collection of non-proprietary tools, 
utilities, and "packages" (the official TeX name for macro add-ons that enhance 
functionality by adding new commands, options, and formatting capabilities) 
from diverse sources that is wrapped up as a unified installation. TeX Live 
includes an editor, but it is not their own tool; for the Windows and OS X TeX 
Live distributions, the included editor is TeXworks. 

TeX Live is probably the most widely used TeX distribution because it is the 
default TeX distro in most of the major Linux distributions and several Unix 
distributions. But there are other popular TeX distros, too. For example, some 
groups at my current employer have a Doxygen-based document generation process 
used that is built around the MiKTeX distribution, which uses the TeXnicCenter 
editor. And there is a kind of super-distribution for Mac OS X (MacTeX) that 
includes the whole TeX Live distro along with an alternative editor (TeXShop), 
a bibliography manager, and some other Mac-specific TeX tools. 

Distros don't make it as simple as keeping track of a version number and a 
patch number for a single tool, but at least they provides some consistency and 
coordination in the TeX chaos of hundreds of separate pieces of software from 
dozens of different sources...

-Fred Ridder


> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:46:18 +0200
> From: shmuelw1 at gmail.com
> To: alan at alphabyte.co.nz; framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker 
> to Flare
> 
> Are you saying that TeXLive is sort of a flavor of LaTex, not an editor 
> like TeXstudio?
> Is it compatible with TeXstudio?
> Do you use an authoring tool with TeXLive other that a simple text editor?
> 
> Regards,
> Shmuel Wolfson
> Technical Writer
> 052-763-7133
> 
> On 29-Oct-13 8:15 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
> > Hiya,
> >
> > TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc. 
> > typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on 
> > vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are 
> > for Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux 
> > flavours.
> >
> > It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso 
> > and making a dvd or mounting and installing from there, or by joining 
> > TUG and getting a free DVD with your membership.
> >
> > Regular/constant updates are obtained from a range of ctan mirror 
> > sites around the globe.
> >
> > The LaTeX, etc. typesetting systems are really a composition of macros 
> > (packages) and various supporting binaries built upon the TeX 
> > typesetting system. The packages are binaries are all supported by and 
> > army of volunteers and there is a mechanism for additional packages to 
> > be contributed. That means if you area having issues with a package 
> > you can often email the maintainer direct or you can open it in a text 
> > editor and fix it yourself if you are skilled.
> >
> > Traditionally, TeX has used the ASCII character set but more modern 
> > systems now use all available font systems, for example LuaTeX and 
> > XeTeX are designed to use OpenType fonts.
> >
> > Other packages allow for output to multimedia players too.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> > On 29/10/13 9:54 PM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
> >> What exactly is TeXLiv? They don't explain it very well on the site.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Shmuel Wolfson
> >> 052-763-7133
> >>
> >> On 28-Oct-13 8:48 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
> >>> Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have 
> >>> been using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.
> >>>
> >>> I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue 
> >>> to request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I 
> >>> doubt I will be taking any short term licensing options because 
> >>> files are not created for short term use.
> >>>
> >>> Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant 
> >>> user base.
> >>>
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi, Joseph.
> >>>

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Fred,

You have described TeX Live very well, so I will only add a few more words 
based on my recent experiences with it.


1.  Although there are a few distributions listed on the CTAN web site, the 
TeX Live package has proven effective for me, even though they recommended a 
different one for Windows.

2.  The download is large.

3.  It was easy to install.

4.  You can get confused about which packages to install - my solution was 
simple: install everything! :)

5.  Periodically running the TeX Live manager to update packages is simple. 
It hides the complexity of maintaining versions, etc.

a.  Updates are incremental - only the packages that have changed are 
downloaded and added.

6.  After installing TeX Live, I used the included TeXworks editor for a 
few days and chose to look for an alternative.

7.  I settled on TeXstudio because of a few reasons (which may not apply to 
everybody, of course):

a.  Has an excellent mechanism to manage "included" input files - 
conceptually similar to a "book" in FrameMaker.

b.  Very easy addition of simpler LaTeX commands into the input files using 
menu buttons.

c.  As you type, an "entry completion" system allows finding and adding the 
LaTeX instruction and parameters very easily.

d.  The "usual" color-coded GUI editor to separate LaTeX commands from your 
own text.

e.  Rapid PDF generation. On my year-old laptop, generates PDF from 100 
page docs in 1 or 2 seconds. The screen automatically splits to show source and 
PDF side-by-side instantly.

f.   Super-fast ability to see the PDF output from changes to the input 
source text.

g.  Mouse menu items to "jump to the source for this line of PDF output" 
and "jump to the PDF for this line of source text".

Hope this helps,

Z

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:52 AM
To: shmuelw at excalibur.co.il; Alan Litchfield; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to 
Flare

No, he's saying that TeX Live (the name is officially two words, BTW, which is 
kind of refreshing in the CamelCaseWorld of TeX and LaTeX) is a *distribution* 
of TeX, in the same sense that Debian and Ubuntu and Fedora (from Red Hat) are 
distributions of Linux. TeX Live is a collection of non-proprietary tools, 
utilities, and "packages" (the official TeX name for macro add-ons that enhance 
functionality by adding new commands, options, and formatting capabilities) 
from diverse sources that is wrapped up as a unified installation. TeX Live 
includes an editor, but it is not their own tool; for the Windows and OS X TeX 
Live distributions, the included editor is TeXworks.

TeX Live is probably the most widely used TeX distribution because it is the 
default TeX distro in most of the major Linux distributions and several Unix 
distributions. But there are other popular TeX distros, too. For example, some 
groups at my current employer have a Doxygen-based document generation process 
used that is built around the MiKTeX distribution, which uses the TeXnicCenter 
editor. And there is a kind of super-distribution for Mac OS X (MacTeX) that 
includes the whole TeX Live distro along with an alternative editor (TeXShop), 
a bibliography manager, and some other Mac-specific TeX tools.

Distros don't make it as simple as keeping track of a version number and a 
patch number for a single tool, but at least they provides some consistency and 
coordination in the TeX chaos of hundreds of separate pieces of software from 
dozens of different sources...

-Fred Ridder

> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 09:46:18 +0200
> From: shmuelw1 at gmail.com<mailto:shmuelw1 at gmail.com>
> To: alan at alphabyte.co.nz<mailto:alan at alphabyte.co.nz>; framers at 
> lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to 
> Flare
>
> Are you saying that TeXLive is sort of a flavor of LaTex, not an editor
> like TeXstudio?
> Is it compatible with TeXstudio?
> Do you use an authoring tool with TeXLive other that a simple text editor?
>
> Regards,
> Shmuel Wolfson
> Technical Writer
> 052-763-7133
>
> On 29-Oct-13 8:15 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
> > Hiya,
> >
> > TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc.
> > typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on
> > vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are
> > for Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux
> > flavours.
> >
> > It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso
> > and making a dvd or m

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Shmuel Wolfson]

  
  
Thanks for the tip on LaTex. It's nice
  to know there is a free alternative to FrameMaker, which has
  become very overpriced lately. They went from $400 for an upgrade
  every 2 or 3 versions to $400 to upgrade only one version.
  
  Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

  On 28-Oct-13 8:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Hi,
Joseph.

You
are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker  if you
look at my posts in the past months, I have done the same
although I have been using it since 1988 off and on. I am
still on the list for old times sake, though. J

Please
do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail 
would like to know your decision trigger! For me, it
was the (a) recent over-pricing for some version upgrades
that should have been done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe
trend (albeit not yet announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as
the only licensing mechanism, and (c) their abandonment of
small users (i.e., number of licenses) from their multi-year
update licensing system.

Today,
all my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I
am only using it for maintaining and changing old
documents, and if the change is large enough, I move it off
FrameMaker. That takes a couple of days  even for the large
documents  and then I am fine for the future! In time, all
my old documents will be moved from FrameMaker.

However,
I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks
quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if
they made me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker
to Flare, I would do it! J)

For
now, for my needs (which may not apply to everybody),
a combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10
to 20 pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page
specifications) is proving quite workable. Not perfect, and
not as flexible as FrameMaker, but the costly upgrades of
FrameMaker is not acceptable, and the trend to equally
costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.

BTW,
LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve *complete*
look-and-feel consistency in my specifications  formatting
is separate from text entry  and I value that highly. It
was my reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12
years ago for my current company.

Regards,
and good luck!

Z

From:
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
  Of Joseph Lorenzini
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
To: FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating
from FrameMaker to Flare


  Hi all,
  

  
  
I have used FrameMaker for over 5
  years. I have used it to produce thousands of pages of
  documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great
  tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.
  
  

  
  
So its with some regret that I am
  telling you that I am leaving this community and the TCS
  suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please note I
  am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One
  Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some
  and if works for you then great. The reasons why I made
  this choice were driven by a specific business and use
  case
  
  

  
  
There are many reasons for this but
  that would cause this post to grow quite large and I
  didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post
  about why I am not using its tool anymore.
  
  

  
  
That said, my experience of why and how
  i migrated may be of interest to others in this forum. If
  you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious to learn
  more, I would be happy to share those details with you
  offline. Feel free to email me.
  
  

  
  
Sincerely,
  
  
Joseph Lorenzini

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Mike Wickham]

Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working 
that way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)


Mike Wickham

 It's nice to know there is a free alternative to FrameMaker, which 
has become very overpriced lately. They went from $400 for an upgrade 
every 2 or 3 versions to $400 to upgrade only one version.


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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

?  Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that 
way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)


?  Mike Wickham

Absolutely correct that it is non-WYSIWYG for the text input. So, it does 
require a change in thinking when writing.

However,


(a)There are plenty of editors that allow the input text files to be simply 
previewed ... almost as you type, with full support for automated instruction 
entry, so that you can see the expected final output (which is PDF in my case) 
in a hurry. With today's fast computers, the regeneration of the PDF output on 
my system - even for multiple hundred page documents - takes less than 5 to 10 
seconds, and usually far less.

a.  I am sure that there are more options, but what I have found to work 
very well is: TeXstudio available at http://texstudio.sourceforge.net/. This 
editor handles all the language issues of LaTeX cleanly and allows me to focus 
on the writing. With pdftolatex support built into TeXstudio, I can preview the 
PDF side-by-side to the input text, almost as fast as WYSIWYG editors!

(b)Far too often, people - particularly novice writers and the engineers we 
like to pejorate (is there such a word? :)) - spend more time on paragraph and 
document formatting and less on the content. Using a text editor to create the 
content is actually a better approach.

a.  When I first started using FrameMaker, I would start by editing the 
text and then later add the formatting where I wanted. Later, when I had a set 
of documents already written, I could simply re-use one to get the correct 
look-and-feel.

b.  If anyone now provides me input for one of my documents - usually in 
Word - I simply save it as a text file, bring it into my LaTeX document as an 
include file, and then can quickly add the LaTeX instructions to make it have 
the correct headers, formatting and the like. Quick and easy!

So, for me, the advantages of LaTeX, particularly when used with an editor that 
handles adding the instructions (like TeXstudio), are very workable. I used to 
use LaTeX decades ago with more pain, but today's amazing community support 
(from the millions of users it has) and fast computers (to preview the output 
in almost real-time) has made it a simple re-adoption. As Mikey says, Try it, 
you'll like it!. :)

Z

 It's nice to know there is a free alternative to FrameMaker, which has become 
very overpriced lately. They went from $400 for an upgrade every 2 or 3 
versions to $400 to upgrade only one version.

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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Steve Rickaby]

At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:

Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts 
and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want that, 
you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most stable and 
full-featured.

Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's become 
pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.

-- 
Steve
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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Rick Quatro]

Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving 
away from WSIWYG in this century. The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, 
S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. 
Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for output 
(for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going full 
circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting era. That 
is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always separated 
authoring and rendering.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017 **NEW**
r...@frameexpert.com


➢  Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that 
way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)

➢  Mike Wickham


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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Mike Wickham]

I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to 
generate my PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, but 
I prefer Acrobat. (That could change if Adobe takes it to a 
subscription-only model.)


Mike Wickham

On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:

At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:


Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts 
and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want that, 
you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most stable and 
full-featured.

Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's become 
pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.




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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Hiya,

TeXLive is a distribution of the TeX, LaTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, etc. 
typesetting systems. It is multiplatform (that is, it can be used on 
vertualy all computer platforms). The main installation schemes are for 
Windows and Mac but many others also exist for various linux flavours.


It is free and can be installed from the net, by downloading the iso and 
making a dvd or mounting and installing from there, or by joining TUG 
and getting a free DVD with your membership.


Regular/constant updates are obtained from a range of ctan mirror sites 
around the globe.


The LaTeX, etc. typesetting systems are really a composition of macros 
(packages) and various supporting binaries built upon the TeX 
typesetting system. The packages are binaries are all supported by and 
army of volunteers and there is a mechanism for additional packages to 
be contributed. That means if you area having issues with a package you 
can often email the maintainer direct or you can open it in a text 
editor and fix it yourself if you are skilled.


Traditionally, TeX has used the ASCII character set but more modern 
systems now use all available font systems, for example LuaTeX and XeTeX 
are designed to use OpenType fonts.


Other packages allow for output to multimedia players too.

Alan


On 29/10/13 9:54 PM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:

What exactly is TeXLiv? They don't explain it very well on the site.

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
052-763-7133

On 28-Oct-13 8:48 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote:
Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have 
been using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.


I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue 
to request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I 
doubt I will be taking any short term licensing options because files 
are not created for short term use.


Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant user 
base.


Alan



On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:


Hi, Joseph.

You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker … if you look 
at my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have 
been using it since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old 
times sake, though. J


Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail – 
would like to know /your/ decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) 
recent over-pricing for some version upgrades that should have been 
done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet 
announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, 
and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) 
from their multi-year update licensing system.


Today, *all* my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am 
/only/ using it for maintaining and changing old documents, and if 
the change is large enough, I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a 
couple of days – even for the large documents – and then I am fine 
for the future! In time, all my old documents will be moved from 
FrameMaker.


However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks 
quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made 
me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would 
do it! J)


For now, /for my needs (which may not apply to everybody)/, a 
combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
FrameMaker, but the costly “upgrades” of FrameMaker is not 
acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.


BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** 
look-and-feel consistency in my specifications – formatting is 
separate from text entry – and I value that highly. It was my reason 
for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12 years ago for my current 
company.


Regards, and good luck!

Z

*From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph 
Lorenzini

*Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
*To:* FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
FrameMaker to Flare


Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM 
was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.


So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this 
community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. 
Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's 
One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if 
works for you then great. The reasons why I made this choice were 
driven by a specific business and use case


There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to 
grow quite large and I didn't want

Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Unless/when print technologies change, then you might need that step. 
Until then your existing Acrobat will continue to work with the old 
license. I still run a #8 version on an old computer.


Alan



On 30/10/13 5:54 AM, Mike Wickham wrote:
I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to 
generate my PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, 
but I prefer Acrobat. (That could change if Adobe takes it to a 
subscription-only model.)


Mike Wickham

On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:

At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:

Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will 
retain fonts and formatting to display identically on every 
computer. But if you want that, you want PDF-- and you probably want 
Acrobat because it is the most stable and full-featured.
Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's 
become pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.





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AlphaByte
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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - Rick 
Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.

However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document 
references to work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, so 
I stopped searching for an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the only 
reason Acrobat gets used on my system is because I have been too lazy to remove 
it as the default app when I look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF output 
from an old FrameMaker doc.

I don't plan to upgrade Acrobat past my current version ... since I _think_ (no 
specific knowledge though) that the next version is likely to use a 
subscription model.

Z

 I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to generate my 
 PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, but I prefer Acrobat. 
 (That could change if Adobe takes it to a subscription-only model.)

 Mike Wickham

On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
 At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:

 Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts 
 and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want 
 that, you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most 
 stable and full-featured.
 Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's become 
 pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.

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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:

PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - Rick 
Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.

However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document references to 
work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, so I stopped searching for 
an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the only reason Acrobat gets used on my 
system is because I have been too lazy to remove it as the default app when I 
look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF output from an old FrameMaker doc.


hyperref is your friend :)

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/

Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

That looks good indeed - the description is exactly what I want! I will have to 
try it out.

Thanks much,

Z


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alan Litchfield
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:46 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to 
Flare


On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:
 PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
 Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - 
 Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.

 However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document 
 references to work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, 
 so I stopped searching for an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the 
 only reason Acrobat gets used on my system is because I have been too lazy to 
 remove it as the default app when I look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF 
 output from an old FrameMaker doc.

hyperref is your friend :)

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/

Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Uh slap on side of head dummy me - hyperref is what I am already using. Just 
haven't explored all the options yet ...

Z

 That looks good indeed - the description is exactly what I want! I will have 
 to try it out.

 Thanks much,

 Z

On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:
 PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
 Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - 
 Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.

 However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document 
 references to work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, 
 so I stopped searching for an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the 
 only reason Acrobat gets used on my system is because I have been too lazy to 
 remove it as the default app when I look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF 
 output from an old FrameMaker doc.

hyperref is your friend :)

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/

Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have been 
using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.

I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue to 
request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I doubt 
I will be taking any short term licensing options because files are not 
created for short term use.

Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant user base.

Alan



On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote:
>
> Hi, Joseph.
>
> You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker ? if you look at 
> my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have been 
> using it since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old times 
> sake, though. J
>
> Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail ? would 
> like to know /your/ decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) recent 
> over-pricing for some version upgrades that should have been done as 
> free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet announced for 
> FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, and (c) their 
> abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) from their 
> multi-year update licensing system.
>
> Today, *all* my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am /only/ 
> using it for maintaining and changing old documents, and if the change 
> is large enough, I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a couple of days 
> ? even for the large documents ? and then I am fine for the future! In 
> time, all my old documents will be moved from FrameMaker.
>
> However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks 
> quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made 
> me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would 
> do it! J)
>
> For now, /for my needs (which may not apply to everybody)/, a 
> combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
> pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
> proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
> FrameMaker, but the costly ?upgrades? of FrameMaker is not acceptable, 
> and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.
>
> BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** 
> look-and-feel consistency in my specifications ? formatting is 
> separate from text entry ? and I value that highly. It was my reason 
> for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12 years ago for my current 
> company.
>
> Regards, and good luck!
>
> Z
>
> *From:*framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph 
> Lorenzini
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
> *To:* FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
> FrameMaker to Flare
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
> thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM 
> was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.
>
> So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this 
> community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. 
> Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's 
> One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if 
> works for you then great. The reasons why I made this choice were 
> driven by a specific business and use case
>
> There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow 
> quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic 
> post about why I am not using its tool anymore.
>
> That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest 
> to others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are 
> curious to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with 
> you offline. Feel free to email me.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Joseph Lorenzini
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as alan at alphabyte.co.nz.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

-- 
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Well...

On 29/10/13 1:33 PM, VLM TechSubs wrote:
>
> To the LaTex advocates: What version/product/learning tools and 
> resources have you found most useful? I?m not at all interested in 
> going back to some coding-oriented environment.
>

Since I use Mac and Windows I use TeXLive that provides MacTeX and 
MikTeX respectively. On the Mac, I use TeXShop exclusively and on 
Windows, mainly TeXWorks.

I wouldn't call it a coding oriented environment, but some might. It 
prefer to think of it as wysiwym.

For those that prefer the wysiwyg experience, there is Scientific Word: 
http://www.mackichan.com/index.html?products/sw.html

>
> It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one?s last tie to Adobe 
> Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe 
> applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware.
>

I use Acrobat quite often, but I am not tied to the latest version of it.

Alan

>
> Best to all,
> Elchanan
>
> *From:*framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph 
> Lorenzini
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
> *To:* FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
> FrameMaker to Flare
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
> thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM 
> was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.
>
> So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this 
> community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. 
> Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's 
> One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if 
> works for you then great. The reasons why I made this choice were 
> driven by a specific business and use case
>
> There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow 
> quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic 
> post about why I am not using its tool anymore.
>
> That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest 
> to others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are 
> curious to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with 
> you offline. Feel free to email me.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Joseph Lorenzini
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as alan at alphabyte.co.nz.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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>
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

-- 
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Michael Lewis]

There are plenty of alternatives even with FM, as long as you use "Print 
. . ." rather than "Save as PDF". I have Acrobat at home but use 
"CutePDF" as a printer on my university machine.

Michael Lewis
Macquarie University


On 2013/10/29 11:33, VLM TechSubs wrote:
> It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one?s last tie to Adobe 
> Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe 
> applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware.

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Shmuel Wolfson]

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Mike Wickham]

Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working 
that way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)

Mike Wickham

>  It's nice to know there is a free alternative to FrameMaker, which 
> has become very overpriced lately. They went from $400 for an upgrade 
> every 2 or 3 versions to $400 to upgrade only one version.

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

?  Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that 
way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)


?  Mike Wickham

Absolutely correct that it is non-WYSIWYG for the text input. So, it does 
require a change in thinking when writing.

However,


(a)There are plenty of editors that allow the input text files to be simply 
previewed ... almost as you type, with full support for automated instruction 
entry, so that you can see the expected final output (which is PDF in my case) 
in a hurry. With today's fast computers, the regeneration of the PDF output on 
my system - even for multiple hundred page documents - takes less than 5 to 10 
seconds, and usually far less.

a.  I am sure that there are more options, but what I have found to work 
very well is: TeXstudio available at http://texstudio.sourceforge.net/. This 
editor handles all the language issues of LaTeX cleanly and allows me to focus 
on the writing. With pdftolatex support built into TeXstudio, I can preview the 
PDF side-by-side to the input text, almost as fast as WYSIWYG editors!

(b)Far too often, people - particularly novice writers and the engineers we 
like to pejorate (is there such a word? :)) - spend more time on paragraph and 
document formatting and less on the content. Using a text editor to create the 
content is actually a better approach.

a.  When I first started using FrameMaker, I would start by editing the 
text and then later add the formatting where I wanted. Later, when I had a set 
of documents already written, I could simply re-use one to get the correct 
look-and-feel.

b.  If anyone now provides me input for one of my documents - usually in 
Word - I simply save it as a text file, bring it into my LaTeX document as an 
include file, and then can quickly add the LaTeX instructions to make it have 
the correct headers, formatting and the like. Quick and easy!

So, for me, the advantages of LaTeX, particularly when used with an editor that 
handles adding the instructions (like TeXstudio), are very workable. I used to 
use LaTeX decades ago with more pain, but today's amazing community support 
(from the millions of users it has) and fast computers (to preview the output 
in almost real-time) has made it a simple re-adoption. As Mikey says, "Try it, 
you'll like it!". :)

Z

 It's nice to know there is a free alternative to FrameMaker, which has become 
very overpriced lately. They went from $400 for an upgrade every 2 or 3 
versions to $400 to upgrade only one version.

-- next part --
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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Steve Rickaby]

At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:

>Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts 
>and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want that, 
>you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most stable and 
>full-featured.

Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's become 
pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.

-- 
Steve

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Rick Quatro]

Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving 
away from WSIWYG "in this century." The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, 
S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. 
Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for output 
(for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going full 
circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting era. That 
is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always separated 
authoring and rendering.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017 **NEW**
rick at frameexpert.com


?  Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that 
way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)

?  Mike Wickham

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Mike Wickham]

I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to 
generate my PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, but 
I prefer Acrobat. (That could change if Adobe takes it to a 
subscription-only model.)

Mike Wickham

On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
> At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:
>
>> Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts 
>> and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want 
>> that, you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most 
>> stable and full-featured.
> Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's become 
> pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.
>

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - Rick 
Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.

However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document 
references to work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, so 
I stopped searching for an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the only 
reason Acrobat gets used on my system is because I have been too lazy to remove 
it as the "default" app when I look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF output 
from an old FrameMaker doc.

I don't plan to upgrade Acrobat past my current version ... since I _think_ (no 
specific knowledge though) that the next version is likely to use a 
subscription model.

Z

> I'm in that crowd, too. My books go to press and I use Acrobat to generate my 
> PDF. I'm sure third party choices could work well, too, but I prefer Acrobat. 
> (That could change if Adobe takes it to a subscription-only model.)

> Mike Wickham

On 10/29/2013 10:14 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
> At 21:02 -0500 28/10/13, Mike Wickham wrote:
>
>> Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain fonts 
>> and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if you want 
>> that, you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it is the most 
>> stable and full-featured.
> Those of us who take books to press are tied to PDF/Acrobat, as it's become 
> pretty much the mandatory pre-press format.

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

That looks good indeed - the description is exactly what I want! I will have to 
try it out.

Thanks much,

Z


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alan Litchfield
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:46 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to 
Flare


On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote:
> PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
> Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - 
> Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.
>
> However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document 
> references to work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, 
> so I stopped searching for an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the 
> only reason Acrobat gets used on my system is because I have been too lazy to 
> remove it as the "default" app when I look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF 
> output from an old FrameMaker doc.

hyperref is your friend :)

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/

Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Uh  dummy me - hyperref is what I am already using. Just 
haven't explored all the options yet ...

Z

> That looks good indeed - the description is exactly what I want! I will have 
> to try it out.

> Thanks much,

> Z

On 30/10/13 7:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net) wrote:
> PDF generation with intra-document references is one of the limitations in 
> Adobe Acrobat equivalents from other sources (when used with FrameMaker) - 
> Rick Quatro had mentioned this in a response to one of my earlier posts too.
>
> However, from TeXstudio (i.e., when using LaTeX), I can get intra-document 
> references to work sufficiently well (not perfectly, I admit) in PDF output, 
> so I stopped searching for an alternative to Adobe Acrobat. FWIW, now, the 
> only reason Acrobat gets used on my system is because I have been too lazy to 
> remove it as the "default" app when I look at a PDF, or when I generate PDF 
> output from an old FrameMaker doc.

hyperref is your friend :)

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/

Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140

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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[gr...@hedgewizard.net]

My biggest kvetch about all the structured doc tools I've seen (and I've been
using them as far back as IBM's "BookMaster") is that they generally output like
sausage machines.
All the text is simply extruded onto the page, with no awareness of how people
read documents or process information.

It is true that s ome output processors/digesters can be "instructed" on how to
handle things such as widows and orphans, and even some semi-intelligent
hyphenation.  But none of them (in my experience) produce layouts anywhere as
near good as what even a moderately-educated human can do. (kerning, leading,
knowing what chunks need to stay together to be useful, etc. )

Their output is "OK" for very small chunk information like help pages, but
dreadful for any document that requires more than that.
I'm not completely opposed to them; using such tools  helps writing teams
standardize things --- and DITA (as a philosophy of information organization)
does help rationalize what can otherwise be messy organization. And they can
help with reuse (but not as much as you might think, once you start factoring in
the overhead of finding the resuable chunks, and then writing around them so
that they don't read like an undigested lump in the middle of your prose!)

Grant

> On October 29, 2013 at 9:30 AM Rick Quatro  wrote:
>
>
> Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving
> away from WSIWYG "in this century." The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA,
> S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools.
> Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for
> output (for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going
> full circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting
> era. That is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always
> separated authoring and rendering.
>
> Rick Quatro
>
> ? Isn't LaTex a non-WYSIWYG application, though? I can't imagine working that
> way in this century. I don't think I've done that since Wordstar. :)
>
> ? Mike Wickham
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Robert Lauriston]

Lots of structured authoring tools, including FrameMaker, offer a
WYSIWYG presentation. I don't see people moving away from that since
it's a lot more efficient to fix formatting problems on the fly.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Rick Quatro  wrote:
> Mike's comment is interesting light of the fact that many people are moving 
> away from WSIWYG "in this century." The whole XML-authoring world, with DITA, 
> S1000D, DocBook, etc., is a move away from WSIWYG authoring tools. 
> Increasingly, authoring content is being separated from rendering it for 
> output (for example, with applications like Flare). In a sense, we are going 
> full circle back to the division of labor that existing in the typesetting 
> era. That is why there may be a revival in the LaTex world: it has always 
> separated authoring and rendering.

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Joseph Lorenzini]

Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce
thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a
great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.

So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this
community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please
note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right
Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if works for you then
great. The reasons why I made this choice were driven by a specific
business and use case

There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow
quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post
about why I am not using its tool anymore.

That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to
others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious
to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline.
Feel free to email me.

Sincerely,
Joseph Lorenzini
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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Hi, Joseph.

You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker ... if you look at my 
posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have been using it 
since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old times sake, though. :)

Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail - would like to 
know your decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) recent over-pricing for some 
version upgrades that should have been done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe 
trend (albeit not yet announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing 
mechanism, and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) 
from their multi-year update licensing system.

Today, all my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am only using it for 
maintaining and changing old documents, and if the change is large enough, I 
move it off FrameMaker. That takes a couple of days - even for the large 
documents - and then I am fine for the future! In time, all my old documents 
will be moved from FrameMaker.

However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks quite 
capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made me a $199 
one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would do it! :))

For now, for my needs (which may not apply to everybody), a combination of Word 
2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 pages), and LaTex (for large 
multi-hundred page specifications) is proving quite workable. Not perfect, and 
not as flexible as FrameMaker, but the costly upgrades of FrameMaker is not 
acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.

BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve *complete* look-and-feel 
consistency in my specifications - formatting is separate from text entry - and 
I value that highly. It was my reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 
12 years ago for my current company.

Regards, and good luck!

Z

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lorenzini
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
To: FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of 
pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool...for a 
time. Plus, the community was super helpful.

So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community 
and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please note I am no 
evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can 
be a great solution for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why I 
made this choice were driven by a specific business and use case

There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite 
large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post about why 
I am not using its tool anymore.

That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to others 
in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious to learn 
more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline. Feel free to 
email me.

Sincerely,
Joseph Lorenzini
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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Writer]

Joseph:

I understand this, but I'm sorry to see you go.

Please include me on your mailing list of the explanations.

Nadine


 From: Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net
To: Joseph Lorenzini jalo...@gmail.com; FrameMaker Forum 
framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 2:22:59 PM
Subject: RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating fromFrameMaker 
to Flare
 


Hi, Joseph.
 
You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker … if you look at my 
posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have been using it 
since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old times sake, though. J
 
Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail – would like to 
know your decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) recent over-pricing for 
some version upgrades that should have been done as free bug fixes, (b) the 
Adobe trend (albeit not yet announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only 
licensing mechanism, and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of 
licenses) from their multi-year update licensing system.
 
Today, all my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am only using it 
for maintaining and changing old documents, and if the change is large enough, 
I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a couple of days – even for the large 
documents – and then I am fine for the future! In time, all my old documents 
will be moved from FrameMaker.
 
However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks quite 
capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made me a $199 
one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would do it! J)
 
For now, for my needs (which may not apply to everybody), a combination of 
Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 pages), and LaTex (for large 
multi-hundred page specifications) is proving quite workable. Not perfect, and 
not as flexible as FrameMaker, but the costly “upgrades” of FrameMaker is not 
acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.
 
BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve *complete* look-and-feel 
consistency in my specifications – formatting is separate from text entry – 
and I value that highly. It was my reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word 
about 12 years ago for my current company.
 
Regards, and good luck!
 
Z
 
From:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lorenzini
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
To: FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare
 
Hi all,
 
I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands 
of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great 
tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful. 
 
So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community 
and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please note I am no 
evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can 
be a great solution for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why 
I made this choice were driven by a specific business and use case
 
There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite 
large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post about why 
I am not using its tool anymore.
 
That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to 
others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious to 
learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline. Feel 
free to email me.
 
Sincerely,
Joseph Lorenzini

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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Interestingly, Syed's comments mirror my own trajectory but I have been 
using LaTeX et al for as long as I have been using FrameMaker.


I doubt I will be moving past version 10 unless my clients continue to 
request I upgrade (to match compatibility with their software). I doubt 
I will be taking any short term licensing options because files are not 
created for short term use.


Importantly for me, TeXLive is free and has a strong and vibrant user base.

Alan



On 29/10/13 7:22 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:


Hi, Joseph.

You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker … if you look at 
my posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have been 
using it since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old times 
sake, though. J


Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail – would 
like to know /your/ decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) recent 
over-pricing for some version upgrades that should have been done as 
free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe trend (albeit not yet announced for 
FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing mechanism, and (c) their 
abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) from their 
multi-year update licensing system.


Today, *all* my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am /only/ 
using it for maintaining and changing old documents, and if the change 
is large enough, I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a couple of days 
– even for the large documents – and then I am fine for the future! In 
time, all my old documents will be moved from FrameMaker.


However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks 
quite capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made 
me a $199 one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would 
do it! J)


For now, /for my needs (which may not apply to everybody)/, a 
combination of Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 
pages), and LaTex (for large multi-hundred page specifications) is 
proving quite workable. Not perfect, and not as flexible as 
FrameMaker, but the costly “upgrades” of FrameMaker is not acceptable, 
and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.


BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve **complete** 
look-and-feel consistency in my specifications – formatting is 
separate from text entry – and I value that highly. It was my reason 
for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 12 years ago for my current 
company.


Regards, and good luck!

Z

*From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph 
Lorenzini

*Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
*To:* FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
FrameMaker to Flare


Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM 
was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.


So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this 
community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. 
Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's 
One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if 
works for you then great. The reasons why I made this choice were 
driven by a specific business and use case


There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow 
quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic 
post about why I am not using its tool anymore.


That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest 
to others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are 
curious to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with 
you offline. Feel free to email me.


Sincerely,

Joseph Lorenzini



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AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Robert Lauriston]

Why not share your reasons for migrating with the list? It's not like
this is a fan club, I think a lot of FM users are looking for a
practical migration path. It would be interesting to hear a current
comparison of the two.

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Joseph Lorenzini jalo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands
 of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great
 tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.

 So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this
 community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please
 note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right Tool.
 FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if works for you then great.
 The reasons why I made this choice were driven by a specific business and
 use case

 There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite
 large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post about
 why I am not using its tool anymore.

 That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to
 others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious
 to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline.
 Feel free to email me.
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RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[VLM TechSubs]

Joseph, I would be grateful to be included in your explanation list.

To the LaTex advocates: What version/product/learning tools and resources have 
you found most useful? I'm not at all interested in
going back to some coding-oriented environment. 


It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one's last tie to Adobe Acrobat, 
as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe
applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware. 

Best to all,
Elchanan

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lorenzini
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
To: FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

 

Hi all,

 

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of 
pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that
FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful. 

 

So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community 
and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a
replacement. Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that 
there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution
for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why I made this choice 
were driven by a specific business and use case

 

There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite 
large and I didn't want to flood this community with a
gigantic post about why I am not using its tool anymore.

 

That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to others 
in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation
and are curious to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you 
offline. Feel free to email me.

 

Sincerely,

Joseph Lorenzini

 

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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Alan Litchfield]

Well...

On 29/10/13 1:33 PM, VLM TechSubs wrote:


To the LaTex advocates: What version/product/learning tools and 
resources have you found most useful? I’m not at all interested in 
going back to some coding-oriented environment.




Since I use Mac and Windows I use TeXLive that provides MacTeX and 
MikTeX respectively. On the Mac, I use TeXShop exclusively and on 
Windows, mainly TeXWorks.


I wouldn't call it a coding oriented environment, but some might. It 
prefer to think of it as wysiwym.


For those that prefer the wysiwyg experience, there is Scientific Word: 
http://www.mackichan.com/index.html?products/sw.html




It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one’s last tie to Adobe 
Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe 
applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware.




I use Acrobat quite often, but I am not tied to the latest version of it.

Alan



Best to all,
Elchanan

*From:*framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph 
Lorenzini

*Sent:* Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
*To:* FrameMaker Forum; tcs-us...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from 
FrameMaker to Flare


Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce 
thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM 
was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.


So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this 
community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. 
Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's 
One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if 
works for you then great. The reasons why I made this choice were 
driven by a specific business and use case


There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow 
quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic 
post about why I am not using its tool anymore.


That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest 
to others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are 
curious to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with 
you offline. Feel free to email me.


Sincerely,

Joseph Lorenzini



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--
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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Michael Lewis]

There are plenty of alternatives even with FM, as long as you use Print 
. . . rather than Save as PDF. I have Acrobat at home but use 
CutePDF as a printer on my university machine.


Michael Lewis
Macquarie University


On 2013/10/29 11:33, VLM TechSubs wrote:
It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one’s last tie to Adobe 
Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe 
applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware.


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Re: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Mike Wickham]

VLM TechSubs wrote:
It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one’s last tie to Adobe 
Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe 
applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware.


Adobe applications don't tie you to Acrobat. FM includes a PDF-creation 
add-on (an Acrobat subset, of course) that can be installed or not, and 
can output in HTML, XML, too. Other Adobe programs have PDF capability 
built-in. There are third-party PDF creators out there, as well.


Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain 
fonts and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if 
you want that, you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it 
is the most stable and full-featured.


Mike Wickham



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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Hi, Joseph.

You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker ... if you look at my 
posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have been using it 
since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old times sake, though. :)

Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail - would like to 
know your decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) recent over-pricing for some 
version upgrades that should have been done as free bug fixes, (b) the Adobe 
trend (albeit not yet announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only licensing 
mechanism, and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of licenses) 
from their multi-year update licensing system.

Today, all my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am only using it for 
maintaining and changing old documents, and if the change is large enough, I 
move it off FrameMaker. That takes a couple of days - even for the large 
documents - and then I am fine for the future! In time, all my old documents 
will be moved from FrameMaker.

However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks quite 
capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made me a $199 
one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would do it! :))

For now, for my needs (which may not apply to everybody), a combination of Word 
2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 pages), and LaTex (for large 
multi-hundred page specifications) is proving quite workable. Not perfect, and 
not as flexible as FrameMaker, but the costly "upgrades" of FrameMaker is not 
acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.

BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve *complete* look-and-feel 
consistency in my specifications - formatting is separate from text entry - and 
I value that highly. It was my reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word about 
12 years ago for my current company.

Regards, and good luck!

Z

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lorenzini
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
To: FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com
Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of 
pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great tool...for a 
time. Plus, the community was super helpful.

So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community 
and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please note I am no 
evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can 
be a great solution for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why I 
made this choice were driven by a specific business and use case

There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite 
large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post about why 
I am not using its tool anymore.

That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to others 
in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious to learn 
more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline. Feel free to 
email me.

Sincerely,
Joseph Lorenzini
-- next part --
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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Writer]

Joseph:

I understand this, but I'm sorry to see you go.

Please include me on your mailing list of the explanations.

Nadine

>
> From: "Syed Zaeem Hosain (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net)"  aeris.net>
>To: Joseph Lorenzini ; FrameMaker Forum lists.frameusers.com> 
>Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 2:22:59 PM
>Subject: RE: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating fromFrameMaker 
>to Flare
> 
>
>
>Hi, Joseph.
>?
>You are not the only one who is abandoning FrameMaker ? if you look at my 
>posts in the past months, I have done the same although I have been using it 
>since 1988 off and on. I am still on the list for old times sake, though. J
>?
>Please do send me your detailed reasons in an off-list e-mail ? would like to 
>know your decision trigger! For me, it was the (a) recent over-pricing for 
>some version upgrades that should have been done as free bug fixes, (b) the 
>Adobe trend (albeit not yet announced for FrameMaker) to SAAS as the only 
>licensing mechanism, and (c) their abandonment of small users (i.e., number of 
>licenses) from their multi-year update licensing system.
>?
>Today, all my new documents are no longer in FrameMaker. I am only using it 
>for maintaining and changing old documents, and if the change is large enough, 
>I move it off FrameMaker. That takes a couple of days ? even for the large 
>documents ? and then I am fine for the future! In time, all my old documents 
>will be moved from FrameMaker.
>?
>However, I have not chosen Flare as my platform, although it looks quite 
>capable. Switching to it is expensive (of course, if they made me a $199 
>one-time offer to switch from FrameMaker to Flare, I would do it! J)
>?
>For now, for my needs (which may not apply to everybody), a combination of 
>Word 2013 for short documents (less than 10 to 20 pages), and LaTex (for large 
>multi-hundred page specifications) is proving quite workable. Not perfect, and 
>not as flexible as FrameMaker, but the costly ?upgrades? of FrameMaker is not 
>acceptable, and the trend to equally costly SAAS is a deal-breaker.
>?
>BTW, LaTeX in particular allows me to achieve *complete* look-and-feel 
>consistency in my specifications ? formatting is separate from text entry ? 
>and I value that highly. It was my reason for selecting FrameMaker over Word 
>about 12 years ago for my current company.
>?
>Regards, and good luck!
>?
>Z
>?
>From:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
>lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lorenzini
>Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
>To: FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com
>Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare
>?
>Hi all,
>?
>I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands 
>of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great 
>tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.?
>?
>So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community 
>and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please note I am no 
>evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can 
>be a great solution for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why 
>I made this choice were driven by a specific business and use case
>?
>There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite 
>large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post about why 
>I am not using its tool anymore.
>?
>That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to 
>others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious to 
>learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline. Feel 
>free to email me.
>?
>Sincerely,
>Joseph Lorenzini

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Robert Lauriston]

Why not share your reasons for migrating with the list? It's not like
this is a fan club, I think a lot of FM users are looking for a
practical migration path. It would be interesting to hear a current
comparison of the two.

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Joseph Lorenzini  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands
> of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a great
> tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.
>
> So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this
> community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please
> note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right Tool.
> FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if works for you then great.
> The reasons why I made this choice were driven by a specific business and
> use case
>
> There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite
> large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post about
> why I am not using its tool anymore.
>
> That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to
> others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious
> to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline.
> Feel free to email me.

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[VLM TechSubs]

Joseph, I would be grateful to be included in your explanation list.

To the LaTex advocates: What version/product/learning tools and resources have 
you found most useful? I'm not at all interested in
going back to some coding-oriented environment. 


It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one's last tie to Adobe Acrobat, 
as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe
applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware. 

Best to all,
Elchanan

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Lorenzini
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
To: FrameMaker Forum; TCS-Users at googlegroups.com
Subject: So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare



Hi all,



I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce thousands of 
pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that
FM was a great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful. 



So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this community 
and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a
replacement. Please note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that 
there's One Right Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution
for some and if works for you then great. The reasons why I made this choice 
were driven by a specific business and use case



There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow quite 
large and I didn't want to flood this community with a
gigantic post about why I am not using its tool anymore.



That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to others 
in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation
and are curious to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you 
offline. Feel free to email me.



Sincerely,

Joseph Lorenzini



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So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Mike Wickham]

VLM TechSubs wrote:
> It occurs to me that leaving FrameMaker cuts one?s last tie to Adobe 
> Acrobat, as well. One may need Acrobat to publish from Adobe 
> applications, but not to publish from anyplace else, of which I am aware.

Adobe applications don't tie you to Acrobat. FM includes a PDF-creation 
add-on (an Acrobat subset, of course) that can be installed or not, and 
can output in HTML, XML, too. Other Adobe programs have PDF capability 
built-in. There are third-party PDF creators out there, as well.

Nobody needs PDF unless they want to create documents that will retain 
fonts and formatting to display identically on every computer. But if 
you want that, you want PDF-- and you probably want Acrobat because it 
is the most stable and full-featured.

Mike Wickham

So Long and Thanks for the Fish -- Migrating from FrameMaker to Flare

[Joseph Lorenzini]

Hi all,

I have used FrameMaker for over 5 years. I have used it to produce
thousands of pages of documentation. And I honestly thought that FM was a
great tool...for a time. Plus, the community was super helpful.

So its with some regret that I am telling you that I am leaving this
community and the TCS suite. I am adopting Flare as a replacement. Please
note I am no evangelist of Flare nor do I think that there's One Right
Tool. FrameMaker can be a great solution for some and if works for you then
great. The reasons why I made this choice were driven by a specific
business and use case

There are many reasons for this but that would cause this post to grow
quite large and I didn't want to flood this community with a gigantic post
about why I am not using its tool anymore.

That said, my experience of why and how i migrated may be of interest to
others in this forum. If you'd like a detailed explanation and are curious
to learn more, I would be happy to share those details with you offline.
Feel free to email me.

Sincerely,
Joseph Lorenzini
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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RE: A hearty public endorsement for Mif2Go - thanks, Jeremy!

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Robert Lauriston wrote:
 FrameMaker  MIF2Go  Word works great, I've used it for a variety of 
 projects.
 Unfortunately Word  Confluence has some major bugs that require a lot of 
 cleanup. FrameMaker  MIF2Go  XHTML  Confluence might be faster depending 
 on the content and formatting.
 https://answers.atlassian.com/questions/19789/converting-from-framemaker-to-confluence-4

Thanks! I will take a look at that flow/process when I get to the steps moving 
documents to Confluence. I remember seeing a number of threads from you in 
regard to how you did this and plan to review all that before I start.

With regard to this one document I have in Word now, it will be okay to have to 
do cleanup (even if major), since it is only one document. I was a bit rushed 
to provide something for the SME to edit, so used Word for now. For the other 
documents, I will not step through Word ...

Z

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A hearty public endorsement for Mif2Go - thanks, Jeremy!

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Robert Lauriston wrote:
> FrameMaker > MIF2Go > Word works great, I've used it for a variety of 
> projects.
> Unfortunately Word > Confluence has some major bugs that require a lot of 
> cleanup. FrameMaker > MIF2Go > XHTML > Confluence might be faster depending 
> on the content and formatting.
> https://answers.atlassian.com/questions/19789/converting-from-framemaker-to-confluence-4

Thanks! I will take a look at that flow/process when I get to the steps moving 
documents to Confluence. I remember seeing a number of threads from you in 
regard to how you did this and plan to review all that before I start.

With regard to this one document I have in Word now, it will be okay to have to 
do cleanup (even if major), since it is only one document. I was a bit rushed 
to provide something for the SME to edit, so used Word for now. For the other 
documents, I will not step through Word ...

Z

A hearty public endorsement for Mif2Go - thanks, Jeremy!

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Hi, all.

As part of my project to move all my documents from FrameMaker to Confluence, I 
had been planning to use Mif2Go to get my FM documents into other formats.

Well, the opportunity to test/start a similar process arose sooner than I 
expected. One of my specifications needed urgent updates by a SME for me to 
check later. The SME only has Word and I have not yet moved any documents to 
Confluence, so I decided to create a Word version for now (which I can _later_ 
move to Confluence after the updates are done).

So, I bought Mif2Go ... with some trepidation ... fully expecting to spend a 
_lot_ of time understanding how to get the result I wanted, asking a lot of 
questions of Jeremy, not getting the right output, doing a ton of editing 
(FrameMaker _and_ Word), writing software to massage/edit the MIF files, 
tearing my hair out, etc., etc., etc.

In reality, the effort was relatively smooth ... without having to send a 
single e-mail to Omni Systems and Jeremy for support or questions!

In less than a day's worth of work (includes some hours reading the Mif2Go 
documentation), with only minor edits to the original FrameMaker files, I was 
able to create a perfectly structured and clean Word version of a 140 page 
document - paragraph formats, character formats, and all. It can easily be 
edited by the SME now and I can move the final doc to Confluence later.

The only real issue I encountered was auto-numbering - the FrameMaker 
capabilities are much better than Word. But, I had already anticipated that 
this would cause me some trouble (based on my read of the Mif2Go documentation).

I use quite standard chapter and section numbering in my specifications (the 
usual 1, 1.1, 1.1.1 stuff) but I also use auto-numbering for text in some 
paragraphs that extend into the side-heads for Notes messages, as well as 
specification numbering paragraphs using variables as part of the auto-number.

Thus, I had to make a choice as to how to bring these auto-numbers over - the 
controls in Mif2Go cannot (not surprisingly) be tweaked to accommodate for all 
FrameMaker auto-number possibilities in a general way. After some testing (and 
editing sessions in Word) that showed the trade-offs between multiple 
approaches, I was able to pick one that minimized the final edits to the Word 
document (with minor edits to the paragraph designs in FrameMaker).

The results were not perfect, but with some manual editing, in about 5 or 6 
hours of effort (spread out over a couple of afternoons), I was done 
transferring this 130 page document to Word! The drawings in the document will 
need changes later, but this can wait - they will need to be created/edited 
using other tools even when using Confluence.

Without Mif2Go, I believe that I would have had to spend many days ... bringing 
in bare text manually to Word and then adding in all the format fixes (for 
example, for emphasized text, bolding, etc.).

So, thanks, Jeremy! Mif2Go is excellent and deserves all the kudos it gets.

Z
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Re: A hearty public endorsement for Mif2Go - thanks, Jeremy!

[Robert Lauriston]

FrameMaker  MIF2Go  Word works great, I've used it for a variety of projects.

Unfortunately Word  Confluence has some major bugs that require a lot
of cleanup. FrameMaker  MIF2Go  XHTML  Confluence might be faster
depending on the content and formatting.

https://answers.atlassian.com/questions/19789/converting-from-framemaker-to-confluence-4
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A hearty public endorsement for Mif2Go - thanks, Jeremy!

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Hi, all.

As part of my project to move all my documents from FrameMaker to Confluence, I 
had been planning to use Mif2Go to get my FM documents into other formats.

Well, the opportunity to test/start a similar process arose sooner than I 
expected. One of my specifications needed urgent updates by a SME for me to 
check later. The SME only has Word and I have not yet moved any documents to 
Confluence, so I decided to create a Word version for now (which I can _later_ 
move to Confluence after the updates are done).

So, I bought Mif2Go ... with some trepidation ... fully expecting to spend a 
_lot_ of time understanding how to get the result I wanted, asking a lot of 
questions of Jeremy, not getting the right output, doing a ton of editing 
(FrameMaker _and_ Word), writing software to massage/edit the MIF files, 
tearing my hair out, etc., etc., etc.

In reality, the effort was relatively smooth ... without having to send a 
single e-mail to Omni Systems and Jeremy for support or questions!

In less than a day's worth of work (includes some hours reading the Mif2Go 
documentation), with only minor edits to the original FrameMaker files, I was 
able to create a perfectly structured and clean Word version of a 140 page 
document - paragraph formats, character formats, and all. It can easily be 
edited by the SME now and I can move the final doc to Confluence later.

The only real issue I encountered was auto-numbering - the FrameMaker 
capabilities are much better than Word. But, I had already anticipated that 
this would cause me some trouble (based on my read of the Mif2Go documentation).

I use quite "standard" chapter and section numbering in my specifications (the 
usual "1", "1.1", "1.1.1" stuff) but I also use auto-numbering for text in some 
paragraphs that extend into the side-heads for "Notes" messages, as well as 
specification numbering paragraphs using variables as part of the auto-number.

Thus, I had to make a choice as to how to bring these auto-numbers over - the 
controls in Mif2Go cannot (not surprisingly) be tweaked to accommodate for all 
FrameMaker auto-number possibilities in a general way. After some testing (and 
editing sessions in Word) that showed the trade-offs between multiple 
approaches, I was able to pick one that minimized the final edits to the Word 
document (with minor edits to the paragraph designs in FrameMaker).

The results were not perfect, but with some manual editing, in about 5 or 6 
hours of effort (spread out over a couple of afternoons), I was done 
transferring this 130 page document to Word! The drawings in the document will 
need changes later, but this can wait - they will need to be created/edited 
using other tools even when using Confluence.

Without Mif2Go, I believe that I would have had to spend many days ... bringing 
in bare text manually to Word and then adding in all the format fixes (for 
example, for emphasized text, bolding, etc.).

So, thanks, Jeremy! Mif2Go is excellent and deserves all the kudos it gets.

Z
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A hearty public endorsement for Mif2Go - thanks, Jeremy!

[Robert Lauriston]

FrameMaker > MIF2Go > Word works great, I've used it for a variety of projects.

Unfortunately Word > Confluence has some major bugs that require a lot
of cleanup. FrameMaker > MIF2Go > XHTML > Confluence might be faster
depending on the content and formatting.

https://answers.atlassian.com/questions/19789/converting-from-framemaker-to-confluence-4

Upgrade from FM8 to 11? - Thanks

[LTC Writer]

Thanks to all who responded. A reply from Harpreet, Adobe Support, says that
the printing issue has been fixed. The other replies are mixed. One of my
clients is using FM10 and eventually, I will not be able to create documents
for them in FM8. I expect I will be upgrading soon.

Tim Lewis
Lewis Technical Communications, Inc.

I previously wrote:
I've been reading the posts about the printing problems, especially when
creating a PDF from a book. I was considering upgrading from version 8 to
11. I produce only PDFs for my clients. One client is now using version 10
but told me that I could continue using version 8, for now. I hope that when
the time comes that I have to use a newer version for this client, Adobe
will have fixed the problem.

Do you recommend I stick with my trusty version 8 or should I add version 11
to my tool set now?

FM 10 books - Thanks all

[Corinne Kenney]

Thanks everyone for the information about FM 10 books. As always, this list 
rocks.
 
Corinne Kenney
Raytheon
Aurora Colorado___


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FM 10 books - Thanks all

[Corinne Kenney]

Thanks everyone for the information about FM 10 books. As always, this list 
rocks.
?
Corinne Kenney
Raytheon
Aurora Colorado
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Thanks for support on list of paragraph properties

[Studio Smalbro]

Hi folks
Thanks for the good answers on how to generate a list of paragraph 
properties. I dug down in the backup archives and voila - I actually 
already had MifMuncher - but had forgotten all about in the years gone by.


regards
Bjørn
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Thanks to all who responded

[Garnier Garnier]

Hello Listers,
 
Thanks for providing different options to extract text from jpeg files. 
 
I was provided a scanned manual (jpeg) that was converted to pdf and I wanted 
to extract and use some of the text. 
 
I finally purchased Abby FineReader - OCR software (www.abbyy.com ) from a 
retailer and could easily extract the required contents. Personally I found it 
easy to use except that the text needs to be reformated. 
 
Once again thanks to each of you who responded. It is sincerely appreciated.
 
THANKS
Garnier___


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Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

[Cal Callahan]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm swamped at work, so haven't been able
to fully explore the problem yet. I am now able to print to a pdf, although
saving doesn't work yet. There appears to a be a problem with one of my job
option files.
I checked the other job options and made sure I wasn't printing to a Mac or
not checking Convert CMYK, then mif-washed the file (to use Art Campbell's
phrase). I owe you all more extensive and explicit answers, which I hope to
have time to research in the next week or so.
I would like to know how to get my Distiller window open when the job is
processing. Right now Distiller is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.
cal
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RE: Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

[Combs, Richard]

Cal Callahan wrote: 

 I would like to know how to get my Distiller window open when the job
 is processing. Right now Distiller is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.

You can open Distiller (before starting to create a PDF) from Start  All 
Programs. Exact location depends on your installation choices and the Acrobat 
and OS version. 

If Distiller is already running, you can switch to it via the taskbar (or 
Alt-Tab), but it's unresponsive until the current job finishes. 

As for job options, Adobe seems to move the *.joboptions files around with each 
release of Acrobat. Search your hard drive to find them all. 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






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RE: Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Since I think you mentioned that all you have installed was the version of 
Distiller that came bundled with FM, that version is considered headless so 
you won't see the full program wrapper that comes with a full version of 
Acrobat.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Cal Callahan
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:57 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm swamped at work, so haven't been able to 
fully explore the problem yet. I am now able to print to a pdf, although saving 
doesn't work yet. There appears to a be a problem with one of my job option 
files.
I checked the other job options and made sure I wasn't printing to a Mac or not 
checking Convert CMYK, then mif-washed the file (to use Art Campbell's 
phrase). I owe you all more extensive and explicit answers, which I hope to 
have time to research in the next week or so.
I would like to know how to get my Distiller window open when the job is 
processing. Right now Distiller is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.
cal
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Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

[Cal Callahan]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm swamped at work, so haven't been able
to fully explore the problem yet. I am now able to print to a pdf, although
saving doesn't work yet. There appears to a be a problem with one of my job
option files.
I checked the other job options and made sure I wasn't printing to a Mac or
not checking Convert CMYK, then "mif-washed" the file (to use Art Campbell's
phrase). I owe you all more extensive and explicit answers, which I hope to
have time to research in the next week or so.
I would like to know how to get my Distiller window open when the job is
processing. Right now Distiller is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.
cal
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Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

[Combs, Richard]

Cal Callahan wrote: 

> I would like to know how to get my Distiller window open when the job
> is processing. Right now Distiller is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.

You can open Distiller (before starting to create a PDF) from Start > All 
Programs. Exact location depends on your installation choices and the Acrobat 
and OS version. 

If Distiller is already running, you can switch to it via the taskbar (or 
Alt-Tab), but it's unresponsive until the current job finishes. 

As for job options, Adobe seems to move the *.joboptions files around with each 
release of Acrobat. Search your hard drive to find them all. 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Since I think you mentioned that all you have installed was the version of 
Distiller that came bundled with FM, that version is considered "headless" so 
you won't see the full program wrapper that comes with a full version of 
Acrobat.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Cal Callahan
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:57 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Thanks re can't get a pdf from FM 10

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm swamped at work, so haven't been able to 
fully explore the problem yet. I am now able to print to a pdf, although saving 
doesn't work yet. There appears to a be a problem with one of my job option 
files.
I checked the other job options and made sure I wasn't printing to a Mac or not 
checking Convert CMYK, then "mif-washed" the file (to use Art Campbell's 
phrase). I owe you all more extensive and explicit answers, which I hope to 
have time to research in the next week or so.
I would like to know how to get my Distiller window open when the job is 
processing. Right now Distiller is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.
cal
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thanks for your assistance on Warnings, Cautions, Notes - this list rocks! EOM

[hessiansx4]

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thanks for your assistance on Warnings, Cautions, Notes - this list rocks!

[hessiansx4]

Thanks for the table to FM/PDF suggestions

[Heidi Bailey]

Thanks to everyone who has given me suggestions so far.
I am trying to get a bit more info about the back end, and also will 
investigate some of the suggestions.

If you kind people don't hear from me for a while, it's because I'm trying 
stuff out (and doing some writing work :-).
Cheers,

Heidi Bailey
Technical Author

PLX Technology Ltd
25 Milton Park
Abingdon
Oxfordshire
OX14 4SH

Registered in England no 2733820
Registered Address:? As Above

Tel: +44 (0)1235 824958
Email: hbailey at plxtech.com
Web: www.plxtech.com

Thanks for the table to FM/PDF suggestions

[Heidi Bailey]

Thanks to everyone who has given me suggestions so far.
I am trying to get a bit more info about the back end, and also will 
investigate some of the suggestions.

If you kind people don't hear from me for a while, it's because I'm trying 
stuff out (and doing some writing work :-).
Cheers,

Heidi Bailey
Technical Author

PLX Technology Ltd
25 Milton Park
Abingdon
Oxfordshire
OX14 4SH

Registered in England no 2733820
Registered Address:  As Above

Tel: +44 (0)1235 824958
Email: hbai...@plxtech.com
Web: www.plxtech.com


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Cross-platform CD burning thanks

[Wendy McGovern]

Thanks to all the people who replied to my question about burning a
cross-platform CD from the PC. As it turns out, the question was moot-we
burned a CD from a PC and I took it home and tried in on my iMac and it
worked perfectly. It's a MacIntel (newer Macs now have Intel chips) with
OS X Leopard, so I think that's why it recognized the disk when the old
Mac in our office wouldn't.

 

Since our customer base is vastly PC-oriented anyway, I think most of
the Mac customers will probably have newer machines and we probably
won't have any problems.

 

Thanks once again!

 

Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
5080 Ritter Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-6903
1-800-932-4637, ext. 2257
wmcgov...@pbi.org

 

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Cross-platform CD burning thanks

[Wendy McGovern]

Thanks to all the people who replied to my question about burning a
cross-platform CD from the PC. As it turns out, the question was moot-we
burned a CD from a PC and I took it home and tried in on my iMac and it
worked perfectly. It's a MacIntel (newer Macs now have Intel chips) with
OS X Leopard, so I think that's why it recognized the disk when the old
Mac in our office wouldn't.



Since our customer base is vastly PC-oriented anyway, I think most of
the Mac customers will probably have newer machines and we probably
won't have any problems.



Thanks once again!



Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
5080 Ritter Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-6903
1-800-932-4637, ext. 2257
wmcgovern at pbi.org

Mif2Go Help -- Thanks!

[Hales-Crotchett, Nicole]

Thanks to all who offered suggestions. I'll keep playing with it!

-Nicole

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Mif2Go Help -- Thanks!

[Hales-Crotchett, Nicole]

Thanks to all who offered suggestions. I'll keep playing with it!

-Nicole

Great thanks [ Re: Replace on part of a wildcards search ]

[Avraham Makeler]

Great thanks to all those who answered.
This is a great forum.

- avi


On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM, David A Starr dast...@ra.rockwell.comwrote:

 I'm not sure this is helpful at this time, but Using FrameMaker 5 has a
 Chapter 8 titled Searching. The Index for this manual has a  reference
 from searching to See 'finding'. Finding has a long list of search tools
 and methods, and also cross references 'changing' and 'navigating'.

 I'm wondering if some of these old terms may hide in the current help
 files?

 Dave Starr

 Sr. Technical Information Developer |  Architecture and Software
 Phone: 952.942.3617
 Email: dast...@ra.rockwell.com
 Rockwell Automation | 10120 West 76th St, Suite B | Eden Prairie, MN 55344



 David Spreadbury dspre...@yahoo.com
 Sent by: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 10/05/2009 04:02 PM

 To
 'Matt Sullivan' m...@grafixtraining.com, pe...@knowhowpro.com, 'Les
 Smalley' l_c_smal...@yahoo.com
 cc
 framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject
 RE: Replace on part of a wildcards search






 You are quite right.

 The Frame 5.5 User Guide has about eight pages, starting on page 55, on
 performing searches.

 There is a half-page table on page 57, the same one that is in the
 referenced handout, on Using Wildcards in a Search.

 Somewhere I should have a copy of the Frame 4 User Guide, which probably
 goes into even more depth. Need to do some more digging.

 David Spreadbury
 Sr. Technical Writer


 -Original Message-
 From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@grafixtraining.com]
 Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:53 PM
 To: 'David Spreadbury'; pe...@knowhowpro.com; 'Les Smalley'
 Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: RE: Replace on part of a wildcards search

 Part of what you may be looking for was in an FM 5.5 handout I got as part
 of the FrameMaker Classroom in a Box product.

 I've posted the PDF here
 http://www.grafixtraining.com/reference/
 And the information on wildcard searches is in Handout 6-3 on page 12

 The info is (obviously) from FM 5.5, but still quite current.


 -Matt

 Matt Sullivan
 GRAFIX Training

 m...@grafixtraining.com
 www.grafixtraining.com
 office 714 960-6840
 cell  txt 714 585-2335
 sms message
 skype: mattrsullivan
 twitter: mattrsullivan


 linkedin


 facebook




 -Original Message-
 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David
 Spreadbury
 Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:54 AM
 To: pe...@knowhowpro.com; 'Les Smalley'
 Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: RE: Replace on part of a wildcards search

 Searching for framemaker grep brought what might be a source for using
 GREP with Adobe products. Apparently it is not limited to FrameMaker. Try
 reading what is available at http://carijansen.com/. If this doesn't help,
 maybe contacting the author, Cari Jansen, in Perth, Australia, would
 provide
 the answers.

 HTH

 David Spreadbury
 Sr. Technical Writer


 -Original Message-
 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
 Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:32 PM
 To: Les Smalley
 Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: Re: Replace on part of a wildcards search

 FrameMaker has long a GREP-like search feature, in FM, and some
 documentation for it. However, the replace wasn't GREP-like. But worse
 yet,
 there doesn't seem to be a trace of the documentation for it in FM9. I've
 forgotten how to use it, and without the doc, I'm not sure that my couple
 of
 quick tests were failing because the feature's gone from the product as
 well
 as the doc, or if I just didn't enter the search string correctly.

 I don't have an earlier FrameMaker installed, and don't have the earlier
 docs handy. Perhaps someone on the list can respond.


 HTH

 Regards,

 Peter
 ___
 Peter Gold
 KnowHow ProServices



 On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Les Smalley l_c_smal...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Hi Avi,
 
  The asterisk ( * ) wildcard matches any character EXCEPT spaces or
  punctuation; the wildcard character to use for those is the verticle
  bar ( | ) but also remember that the tab character is \t (no
  quotes) ...
 
  Regardless, unfortunately you can't do it with FrameMaker as you
  describe attempting.  The search tool removes everything matched by
  the search string and inserts the replace string in its place, so you
  will also lose the Command string.  It is a great disappointment
  that a real GREP search capability (or even more general awk text
  processing features) has never been implemented in FM.
 
  If
  you search for just Unit32 and replace that with SHORT_ID you can
  do what you want by careful use of the 'Change  Find' or just 'Find'
  buttons (and I understand how tedious and error-prone this can
  be.)
 
  It may be posible to do this via scripting (e.g.
  FrameScript, etc.; I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in)
  or possibly by saving to MIF and using a text

Great thanks [ Re: Replace on part of a wildcards search ]

[Avraham Makeler]

Great thanks to all those who answered.
This is a great forum.

- avi


On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM, David A Starr wrote:

> I'm not sure this is helpful at this time, but Using FrameMaker 5 has a
> Chapter 8 titled Searching. The Index for this manual has a  reference
> from searching to See 'finding'. Finding has a long list of search tools
> and methods, and also cross references 'changing' and 'navigating'.
>
> I'm wondering if some of these old terms may hide in the current help
> files?
>
> Dave Starr
>
> Sr. Technical Information Developer |  Architecture and Software
> Phone: 952.942.3617
> Email: dastarr at ra.rockwell.com
> Rockwell Automation | 10120 West 76th St, Suite B | Eden Prairie, MN 55344
>
>
>
> "David Spreadbury" 
> Sent by: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> 10/05/2009 04:02 PM
>
> To
> "'Matt Sullivan'" , , 
> "'Les
> Smalley'" 
> cc
> framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject
> RE: Replace on part of a wildcards search
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You are quite right.
>
> The Frame 5.5 User Guide has about eight pages, starting on page 55, on
> performing searches.
>
> There is a half-page table on page 57, the same one that is in the
> referenced handout, on Using Wildcards in a Search.
>
> Somewhere I should have a copy of the Frame 4 User Guide, which probably
> goes into even more depth. Need to do some more digging.
>
> David Spreadbury
> Sr. Technical Writer
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:matt at grafixtraining.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:53 PM
> To: 'David Spreadbury'; peter at knowhowpro.com; 'Les Smalley'
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: Replace on part of a wildcards search
>
> Part of what you may be looking for was in an FM 5.5 handout I got as part
> of the FrameMaker Classroom in a Box product.
>
> I've posted the PDF here
> http://www.grafixtraining.com/reference/
> And the information on wildcard searches is in Handout 6-3 on page 12
>
> The info is (obviously) from FM 5.5, but still quite current.
>
>
> -Matt
>
> Matt Sullivan
> GRAFIX Training
>
> matt at grafixtraining.com
> www.grafixtraining.com
> office 714 960-6840
> cell & txt 714 585-2335
> sms message
> skype: mattrsullivan
> twitter: mattrsullivan
>
>
> linkedin
>
>
> facebook
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David
> Spreadbury
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:54 AM
> To: peter at knowhowpro.com; 'Les Smalley'
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: Replace on part of a wildcards search
>
> Searching for "framemaker grep" brought what might be a source for using
> GREP with Adobe products. Apparently it is not limited to FrameMaker. Try
> reading what is available at http://carijansen.com/. If this doesn't help,
> maybe contacting the author, Cari Jansen, in Perth, Australia, would
> provide
> the answers.
>
> HTH
>
> David Spreadbury
> Sr. Technical Writer
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:32 PM
> To: Les Smalley
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: Replace on part of a wildcards search
>
> FrameMaker has long a GREP-like search feature, in FM, and some
> documentation for it. However, the replace wasn't GREP-like. But worse
> yet,
> there doesn't seem to be a trace of the documentation for it in FM9. I've
> forgotten how to use it, and without the doc, I'm not sure that my couple
> of
> quick tests were failing because the feature's gone from the product as
> well
> as the doc, or if I just didn't enter the search string correctly.
>
> I don't have an earlier FrameMaker installed, and don't have the earlier
> docs handy. Perhaps someone on the list can respond.
>
>
> HTH
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
> ___
> Peter Gold
> KnowHow ProServices
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Les Smalley 
> wrote:
> > Hi Avi,
> >
> > The asterisk ( * ) wildcard matches any character EXCEPT spaces or
> > punctuation; the wildcard character to use for those is the verticle
> > bar ( | ) but also remember that the tab character is "\t" (no
> > quotes) ...
> >
> > Regardless, unfortunately you can't do it with FrameMaker as you
> > describe attempting.  The search tool removes everything matched by
> > the

Thanks for the help concerning hypertext linking in PDF

[Gerry Olow]

My thanks to Richard Combs and Fred Ridder for their help. I found out that I 
didn't have the Adobe PDF installed (contains Acrobat Distiller). For some 
reason, when I installed my Frame8, Adobe PDF did not tag along...

Thanks again,
Gerry Olow