Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76
Hi Not sure how you are defining avant-garde, but what follows is a list of books (and a couple of articles and / or chapters) that deal in whole or part with experimental / underground / avant-garde (?) cinema post '76, or are over views which trace the influence of a pre-76 filmmaker beyond '76. best Jack Sargeant Steve Anker, Kathy Geritz, Steve Seid, eds, Radical Light: Alternative Film And Video in the San Francisco Bay Area, 1945-2000, University of California Press, Berkeley, 2010 Dirk de Bruyn, ‘D-Light + MM2 = Dutch Experimental Film’ in Senses of Cinema, issue 34, February 8th, 2005 Ian Christie, ‘Histories of the Future: Mapping the Avant-Garde’ Film History, Vol 20, 2008 Martha Gever, John Greyson and Pratibha Parmar, eds, Queer Looks: Perspectives on Lesbian and Gay Film and Video, Routledge, London, 1993 Branden W Joseph, Beyond the Dream Syndicate, Tony Conrad and the Arts After Cage (A ‘Minor’ History), Zone Books, New York, 2011. George Kuchar, ‘Cans and Cassettes’, Journal of Film and Video, Vol 57, no 1 / 2, Spring / Summer 2005 Andrew Perchuk and Rani Singh, eds, Harry Smith The Avant Garde In The American Vernacular, Getty Research Institute, Los Angeles, 2010 Susanne Pfeffer, ed, You Killed Me First: The Cinema of Transgression, Koenig Books, London, 2012 Duncan Reekie Subversion: The Definitive History of Underground Film, Wallflower Press, London, 2007 A. L. Rees A History of Experimental Film and Video: From the Canonical Avant-Garde to Contemporary British Practice, BFI, London, 1999 Jack Sargeant, Deathtripping: The Extreme Underground, Soft Skull, New York, 2007 (first published as Deathtripping: The Cinema of Transgression, 1995, Creation Books, London, 1995) Jack Sargeant, Naked Lens: Beat Cinema, Soft Skull, New York, 2009 (1997) Jack Sargeant, ‘This Is Hardcore’, in Firoza Elavia, ed, Cinematic Folds: The Furling and Unfurling of Images, Pleasure Dome, Toronto, 2008 Jack Stevenson Land of a Thousand Balconies: Discoveries and Confessions of a B-Movie Archaeologist, Critical Vision, Manchester, 2003 Jack Stevenson Scandinavian Blue: The Erotic Cinema of Sweden and Denmark in the 1960s and 1970s, McFarland and Company, Inc, Publishers, Jefferson and London, 2010 Here's another one: Indiscretions: Avant-Garde Film, Video, and Feminism by Patricia Melllencap (Indiana University Press) De: William Wees, Dr. william.w...@mcgill.ca Para: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Enviado: Jueves 7 de noviembre de 2013 2:26 Asunto: Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76 I would suggest chapters 13 and 14 of Visionary Film: The American Avant-Garde, 3rd edition, by P. Adams Sitney, Oxford University Press, 2002; A Line of Sight: American Avant-Garde Film Since 1965, by Paul Arthur, University of Minnesota Press, 2005; and in all humility, a couple of essays by myself: ”The Changing of the Garde(s)” in Public, No. 25, 2002, and “No More Giants” in Women and Experimental Filmmaking, eds. Jean Petrolle and Virginia Wright Wexman, University of Illinois Press, 2005. --Bill Wees From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Ara Osterweil Sent: November 5, 2013 10:19 AM To: frameworks Subject: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76 Hello all, A friend is compiling a bibliography and needs to know the 4-5 most important scholarly books or articles on American a/g film made after 1976. My scholarship on the a/g is mostly in the 60s and 70s and while I know much of the work that comes after, I wanted to confirm my suspicions. Suggestions welcome and appreciated. Thanks, Ara ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76
agreed the threshold is ever forward thinking somehow that the time u exist in has a holding on anything like expansion is just what in the psyche ? Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimac...@gmail.com AIM carismachet Skype carimachet - 646-652-6434 Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Twitter: @carimachet https://twitter.com/carimachet Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:43 PM, o...@thenowcorporation.com o...@thenowcorporation.com wrote: interesting. avant garde,experimental,personal. I think ag filmmaking is personal filmmaking. films made for viewing by art, poetry and film lovers and/or people who are inquisitive and open to non traditional forms and/or subjects. films made by artists for the many reasons anyone makes art. that will endure. Owen On Nov 7, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com wrote: Quoting Stashu Kybartas skyb...@me.com: There is no avant-garde now. The internet insures that NOTHING will stay avant - EVER. I tried to make this point pre-Internet, in my 1986 article The End of Avant-Garde Film in the 20th anniversary issue of Millennium Film Journal. By 1986, in my opinion, common usage was that an experimental or avant-garde film was a film with certain features, such as scratching or painting on film, a limited or abstracted narrative, non-linear editing, very small cast and crew, and others -- some of these if not all of them. Scratching on film was by then no longer avant-garde, in the sense of new or advanced, and the terms experimental and avant-garde has come to denote a style of filmmaking. This is neither good nor bad, but one important reason to understand it is that artists must realize that techniques already used don't justify themselves; everything depends on the total work. Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde
Given the state of the world today, there are many compelling reasons for removing the idea of an avant-garde from art history and returning it to the political arena where it began. That’s been one of my goals as a theorist for a long time. Here’s a conversation about it 23 years ago. http://www.neme.org/1627/metadesigning-for-the-future Remember this is 1990, five years before the World Wide Web. One implication of this view, not stated here, is that any kind of art, no matter how retrograde, can participate in an avant-garde project because the site of avant-gardness is no longer art, it’s the “new alliance” as such. That doesn’t negate any of the reasons given in this thread for accepting or rejecting the notion of avant-garde art, it just frames them in a larger context, more appropriate to the paleocybernetic era in which we live. From: Cari Machet Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 6:56 AM To: Experimental Film Discussion List Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76 agreed the threshold is ever forward thinking somehow that the time u exist in has a holding on anything like expansion is just what in the psyche ? Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimac...@gmail.com AIM carismachet Skype carimachet - 646-652-6434 Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Twitter: @carimachet https://twitter.com/carimachet Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:43 PM, o...@thenowcorporation.com o...@thenowcorporation.com wrote: interesting. avant garde,experimental,personal. I think ag filmmaking is personal filmmaking. films made for viewing by art, poetry and film lovers and/or people who are inquisitive and open to non traditional forms and/or subjects. films made by artists for the many reasons anyone makes art. that will endure. Owen On Nov 7, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com wrote: Quoting Stashu Kybartas skyb...@me.com: There is no avant-garde now. The internet insures that NOTHING will stay avant - EVER. I tried to make this point pre-Internet, in my 1986 article The End of Avant-Garde Film in the 20th anniversary issue of Millennium Film Journal. By 1986, in my opinion, common usage was that an experimental or avant-garde film was a film with certain features, such as scratching or painting on film, a limited or abstracted narrative, non-linear editing, very small cast and crew, and others -- some of these if not all of them. Scratching on film was by then no longer avant-garde, in the sense of new or advanced, and the terms experimental and avant-garde has come to denote a style of filmmaking. This is neither good nor bad, but one important reason to understand it is that artists must realize that techniques already used don't justify themselves; everything depends on the total work. Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde, seminal writing on American a/g film after 76
Youngblood, like Zeuss you are throwing lightning bolts here! At the top of my list then, the forthcoming SECESSION FROM BROADCAST: GENE YOUNGBLOOD AND THE COMMUNICATIONS REVOLUTION and/or VIRTUAL SPACE: THE CHALLENGE TO CREATE ON THE SAME SCALE AS WE CAN DESTROY ( Electrified by your thoughts here ((and also potentially?)) 13 years after this blazing interview. ) Meanwhile, (written before reading Gene's interview) Seminal writings related to the original query I have found nourishing: the big big BUFFALO HEADS:Media Study,Media Practice,Media Pioneers 1973-1990 edited by Vasulka and Peter Weibel Women's Experimental Cinema:Critical Frameworks editor Robin Blaetz Peter Tscherkassky -Horwath, Loebenstein editors Anthony McCall:The Solid Light Films and Related Works -Branden Joseph and Jonathan Walley Edited by Christopher Eamon Is This What You Were Born For? -Abigail Child This Is Called Moving: A Critical Poetics Of Film -Abigail Child Optic Antics:The Cinema Of Ken Jacobs Pierson, James, and Arthur -DB On Nov 8, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Gene Youngblood wrote: Given the state of the world today, there are many compelling reasons for removing the idea of an avant-garde from art history and returning it to the political arena where it began. That’s been one of my goals as a theorist for a long time. Here’s a conversation about it 23 years ago. http://www.neme.org/1627/metadesigning-for-the-future Remember this is 1990, five years before the World Wide Web. One implication of this view, not stated here, is that any kind of art, no matter how retrograde, can participate in an avant-garde project because the site of avant-gardness is no longer art, it’s the “new alliance” as such. That doesn’t negate any of the reasons given in this thread for accepting or rejecting the notion of avant-garde art, it just frames them in a larger context, more appropriate to the paleocybernetic era in which we live. From: Cari Machet Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 6:56 AM To: Experimental Film Discussion List Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76 agreed the threshold is ever forward thinking somehow that the time u exist in has a holding on anything like expansion is just what in the psyche ? Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimac...@gmail.com AIM carismachet Skype carimachet - 646-652-6434 Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Twitter: @carimachet https://twitter.com/carimachet Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:43 PM, o...@thenowcorporation.com o...@thenowcorporation.com wrote: interesting. avant garde,experimental,personal. I think ag filmmaking is personal filmmaking. films made for viewing by art, poetry and film lovers and/or people who are inquisitive and open to non traditional forms and/or subjects. films made by artists for the many reasons anyone makes art. that will endure. Owen On Nov 7, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com wrote: Quoting Stashu Kybartas skyb...@me.com: There is no avant-garde now. The internet insures that NOTHING will stay avant - EVER. I tried to make this point pre-Internet, in my 1986 article The End of Avant-Garde Film in the 20th anniversary issue of Millennium Film Journal. By 1986, in my opinion, common usage was that an experimental or avant-garde film was a film with certain features, such as scratching or painting on film, a limited or abstracted narrative, non-linear editing, very small cast and crew, and others -- some of these if not all of them. Scratching on film was by then no longer avant-garde, in the sense of new or advanced, and the terms experimental and avant-garde has come to denote a style of filmmaking. This is neither good nor bad, but one important reason to understand it is that artists must realize that techniques already used don't justify themselves; everything depends on the total work. Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
Hi Charles, Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed leaders) and I don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll advertised pricing. Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll. -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post! ---Buck Bito Lawrence Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
Thanks. BTW, is the 8mm stock still being produced? I just emailed Joss Schwind, but his website looks pretty old...and I don't want to send money to a random address and get nothing back. Yale says the b+w 8mm stock's been discontinued... -charles On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed leaders) and I don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll advertised pricing. Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll. -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post! ---Buck Bito Lawrence Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
Hi Charles, I haven't ordered since my R8 100D order a week before the Kodak discontinuation announcement last year, but I have been happily ordering from International Film (John Schwind) for years without a problem. Just give him a call or drop an email to confirm he's got what you want: International Film (John Schwind) http://internationalfilm.weebly.com/ -Have fun with that R8! ---Buck On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:43 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Thanks. BTW, is the 8mm stock still being produced? I just emailed Joss Schwind, but his website looks pretty old...and I don't want to send money to a random address and get nothing back. Yale says the b+w 8mm stock's been discontinued... -charles On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed leaders) and I don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll advertised pricing. Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll. -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post! ---Buck Bito Lawrence Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
Cool, thanks for your help. -c On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, I haven't ordered since my R8 100D order a week before the Kodak discontinuation announcement last year, but I have been happily ordering from International Film (John Schwind) for years without a problem. Just give him a call or drop an email to confirm he's got what you want: International Film (John Schwind) http://internationalfilm.weebly.com/ -Have fun with that R8! ---Buck On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:43 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Thanks. BTW, is the 8mm stock still being produced? I just emailed Joss Schwind, but his website looks pretty old...and I don't want to send money to a random address and get nothing back. Yale says the b+w 8mm stock's been discontinued... -charles On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed leaders) and I don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll advertised pricing. Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll. -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post! ---Buck Bito Lawrence Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
Hi Charles, LIFT in Toronto sells FOMAPAN Regular 8, which is a lovely stock that I believe is still being produced. We import it from Germany and can ship it to the states. Info here: http://lift.ca/equipment/store/fomapan-regular-8mm-film-33-asa-100d80t good luck Chris Cool, thanks for your help. -c On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, I haven't ordered since my R8 100D order a week before the Kodak discontinuation announcement last year, but I have been happily ordering from International Film (John Schwind) for years without a problem. Just give him a call or drop an email to confirm he's got what you want: International Film (John Schwind) http://internationalfilm.weebly.com/ -Have fun with that R8! ---Buck On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:43 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Thanks. BTW, is the 8mm stock still being produced? I just emailed Joss Schwind, but his website looks pretty old...and I don't want to send money to a random address and get nothing back. Yale says the b+w 8mm stock's been discontinued... -charles On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed leaders) and I don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll advertised pricing. Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll. -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post! ---Buck Bito Lawrence Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76
The timing of the neverending conversation coincided nicely with me getting the new MFJ - David Curtis mentions how Maya Deren saw her films as chamber cinema: Maya Deren...described her own films as 'chamber cinema' rather than experimental or avant-garde film, making a crucial point about scale and appropriate context. Implicitly, she saw artists' film as small in scale, which like chamber music should ideally be performed to an attentive audience in an intimate space. Chamber films were 'poetic, lyric-form, abstract, eloquent,' and required small groups of 'virtuoso performers, with every note heard individually,' not lost within a larger orchestration. (via David Curtis in Fall 13 MFJ, Deren quotes from a lecture she gave at Smith College) Obviously her description applies very specifically to her own films, but as a matter of bringing to mind scale / intimacy, I really like the term. Obviously it's far too specific in it's historical referent while being far too open in it's cinematic one to legitimately be used in general, but a nice way to think when making / putting on shows on a personal level. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Cari Machet carimac...@gmail.com wrote: agreed the threshold is ever forward thinking somehow that the time u exist in has a holding on anything like expansion is just what in the psyche ? Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimac...@gmail.com AIM carismachet Skype carimachet - 646-652-6434 Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Twitter: @carimachet https://twitter.com/carimachet Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:43 PM, o...@thenowcorporation.com o...@thenowcorporation.com wrote: interesting. avant garde,experimental,personal. I think ag filmmaking is personal filmmaking. films made for viewing by art, poetry and film lovers and/or people who are inquisitive and open to non traditional forms and/or subjects. films made by artists for the many reasons anyone makes art. that will endure. Owen On Nov 7, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com wrote: Quoting Stashu Kybartas skyb...@me.com: There is no avant-garde now. The internet insures that NOTHING will stay avant - EVER. I tried to make this point pre-Internet, in my 1986 article The End of Avant-Garde Film in the 20th anniversary issue of Millennium Film Journal. By 1986, in my opinion, common usage was that an experimental or avant-garde film was a film with certain features, such as scratching or painting on film, a limited or abstracted narrative, non-linear editing, very small cast and crew, and others -- some of these if not all of them. Scratching on film was by then no longer avant-garde, in the sense of new or advanced, and the terms experimental and avant-garde has come to denote a style of filmmaking. This is neither good nor bad, but one important reason to understand it is that artists must realize that techniques already used don't justify themselves; everything depends on the total work. Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- ekrem serdar austin, tx ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
Any lab that does 16mm reversal can do r8. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Charles Chadwick infiltration...@gmail.comwrote: Cool, thanks for your help. -c On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.com wrote: Hi Charles, I haven't ordered since my R8 100D order a week before the Kodak discontinuation announcement last year, but I have been happily ordering from International Film (John Schwind) for years without a problem. Just give him a call or drop an email to confirm he's got what you want: International Film (John Schwind) http://internationalfilm.weebly.com/ -Have fun with that R8! ---Buck On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:43 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Thanks. BTW, is the 8mm stock still being produced? I just emailed Joss Schwind, but his website looks pretty old...and I don't want to send money to a random address and get nothing back. Yale says the b+w 8mm stock's been discontinued... -charles On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed leaders) and I don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll advertised pricing. Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll. -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post! ---Buck Bito Lawrence Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
You can also get regular 8mm (with prepaidprocessing) from Dwayne's in Parsons, Kansas. For an obsolete format there are plenty of choices. - Tom Durham Cinematheque -Original Message- From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of direc...@lift.on.ca Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 2:40 PM To: Experimental Film Discussion List Subject: Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question Hi Charles, LIFT in Toronto sells FOMAPAN Regular 8, which is a lovely stock that I believe is still being produced. We import it from Germany and can ship it to the states. Info here: http://lift.ca/equipment/store/fomapan-regular-8mm-film-33-asa-100d80t good luck Chris Cool, thanks for your help. -c On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, I haven't ordered since my R8 100D order a week before the Kodak discontinuation announcement last year, but I have been happily ordering from International Film (John Schwind) for years without a problem. Just give him a call or drop an email to confirm he's got what you want: International Film (John Schwind) http://internationalfilm.weebly.com/ -Have fun with that R8! ---Buck On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:43 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Thanks. BTW, is the 8mm stock still being produced? I just emailed Joss Schwind, but his website looks pretty old...and I don't want to send money to a random address and get nothing back. Yale says the b+w 8mm stock's been discontinued... -charles On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Buck Bito - Movette b...@movettefilm.comwrote: Hi Charles, Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed leaders) and I don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll advertised pricing. Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll. -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post! ---Buck Bito Lawrence Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote: Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 8mm camera from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge project anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've tracked down a good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone know what the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be? Anything besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these days, trying to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I have. -charles ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question
True enough, just please don't slit it yourself unless you have a lot of practice (with good results) or have no intention to project or scan it ;-) -We have seen lots of poorly slit 8mm and it is not fun to work with! ---Buck Bito Movette Film Transfer 1407 Valencia St. San Francisco, CA 94110 (Valencia at 25th St.) 415-558-8815 Open Tuesday - Saturday Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4 *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com On Fri, November 8, 2013 12:02 pm, Jay Hudson wrote: Any lab that does 16mm reversal can do r8. ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] avant-garde
Then all we have to do is get rid of the concept of the avant-garde from the political arena, too, and we might really begin to get somewhere!:) Peter 'Paleoanarchist' Snowdon Envoyé de mon iPad Le 8 nov. 2013 à 16:02, Gene Youngblood ato...@comcast.net a écrit : Given the state of the world today, there are many compelling reasons for removing the idea of an avant-garde from art history and returning it to the political arena where it began. That’s been one of my goals as a theorist for a long time. Here’s a conversation about it 23 years ago. http://www.neme.org/1627/metadesigning-for-the-future Remember this is 1990, five years before the World Wide Web. One implication of this view, not stated here, is that any kind of art, no matter how retrograde, can participate in an avant-garde project because the site of avant-gardness is no longer art, it’s the “new alliance” as such. That doesn’t negate any of the reasons given in this thread for accepting or rejecting the notion of avant-garde art, it just frames them in a larger context, more appropriate to the paleocybernetic era in which we live. From: Cari Machet Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 6:56 AM To: Experimental Film Discussion List Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seminal writing on American a/g film after 76 agreed the threshold is ever forward thinking somehow that the time u exist in has a holding on anything like expansion is just what in the psyche ? Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimac...@gmail.com AIM carismachet Skype carimachet - 646-652-6434 Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Twitter: @carimachet https://twitter.com/carimachet Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 2:43 PM, o...@thenowcorporation.com o...@thenowcorporation.com wrote: interesting. avant garde,experimental,personal. I think ag filmmaking is personal filmmaking. films made for viewing by art, poetry and film lovers and/or people who are inquisitive and open to non traditional forms and/or subjects. films made by artists for the many reasons anyone makes art. that will endure. Owen On Nov 7, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Fred Camper f...@fredcamper.com wrote: Quoting Stashu Kybartas skyb...@me.com: There is no avant-garde now. The internet insures that NOTHING will stay avant - EVER. I tried to make this point pre-Internet, in my 1986 article The End of Avant-Garde Film in the 20th anniversary issue of Millennium Film Journal. By 1986, in my opinion, common usage was that an experimental or avant-garde film was a film with certain features, such as scratching or painting on film, a limited or abstracted narrative, non-linear editing, very small cast and crew, and others -- some of these if not all of them. Scratching on film was by then no longer avant-garde, in the sense of new or advanced, and the terms experimental and avant-garde has come to denote a style of filmmaking. This is neither good nor bad, but one important reason to understand it is that artists must realize that techniques already used don't justify themselves; everything depends on the total work. Fred Camper Chicago ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
