Re: [free-software-melb] Google
On Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 06:13:07PM +1100, Brian May wrote: > I notice the instructions say "The resulting setup is not more secure > than a regular getmailrc with 0600 permissions." - which is no surprise > really. As I understand it, there is arguably a *slight* security improvement in the initial application setup. If the user has two-factor authentication enabled, it would be difficult for someone who learns the password to access e-mails - they would need to have a copy of either the 2FA device, or the security token. I suspect the real reason Google is forcing this is because they want to help make using client applications less convenient over the web interface. > I have a user who is using gmail with Outlook 2007. They might be > affected more so then me. I have told said user they will need to > upgrade to Outlook 2019 or Office 365, or use gmail from the website, it > looks like Outlook 2007 does not support OAUTH from what I can tell. Maybe you could put in a plug for Thunderbird or something else that's free software, since it sounds like the user will have to upgrade anyway. Better to make it a true upgrade. :) signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au https://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Google
On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 05:21:43PM +1100, Brian May wrote: > Last time I looked, getmail upstream development was dead, and only > supported Python 2.7. So I switched from getmail to fetchmail. It also > had problems handling timeout errors from a dead SSL connection, and > would hang for ever. > > Not sure if that is still the case or not. No idea about the dead SSL connection issue. I haven't used it long enough to properly evaluate it. Most of my experience is with offlineimap (with Mutt). The getmail changelog would suggest it is still supported, with the most recent release being from late August. http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/CHANGELOG It is still available in Debian sid and buster, and there is some interest on their mailing list in migrating getmail to Python 3 to keep it in Debian (and to drop "historical cruft and backwards-compatibility code"). It might be worth a look and perhaps giving them a hand. https://marc.info/?t=15736590392=1=2 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au https://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Google
On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 07:39:57AM +1100, Brian May wrote: > Is there anything you know of similar to fetchmail? I currently am using > fetchmail + notmuch. If offlineimap isn't your thing, getmail looks like it'll do the job, at least at a glance. http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/configuration.html#retriever-parameters signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au https://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Google
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 05:12:08PM +1100, Brian May wrote: > I am not aware of any open source IMAP client software that can use > OAuth. Although I haven't tried yet, I'm pretty sure Thunderbird and offlineimap support it. Thunderbird 38.0beta release notes (current version is 68.3.0): https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/38.0beta/releasenotes/ Using Offlineimap with the Gmail IMAP API: https://hobo.house/2017/07/17/using-offlineimap-with-the-gmail-imap-api/ I received the e-mail too (I have to use a G Suite address at my workplace) and I think it's annoying that I'll need to reconfigure everything. I don't like GMail in general, but I don't expect I'll need to switch to a different set of applications at work when the change takes place mid 2020. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au https://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Mozilla respond to drm issue
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 12:00:35AM +, Brian May wrote: We also recognize that not everybody wants DRM, so we are also offering a separate Firefox download without the CDM enabled by default for those users who would rather not have the CDM downloaded to their browser on install. Customer: Netflix doesn't work! ... Netflix: You will need to install the CDM version of Firefox. Customer: Oh, it works now, sorry. i.e. everyone is happy, and there is no pressure on Netflix to change. Well no, because they have actually made it the default. If you want the non-CDM build, you have to go to https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/38.0/win32-EME-free/ which is just a directory listing. I visited firefox.com in a Windows build of Firefox (installed into a Windows Vista 32-bit Wine prefix), and this is the file it downloaded from the main page: https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/38.0/win32/en-GB/Firefox%20Setup%20Stub%2038.0.exe I did not notice any links to download a non-CDM version advertised anywhere from the main download page, so I had no idea what version I was going to get - even if I was already aware of the issue. After installation, the Play DRM content box was there (and already ticked), and the Primetime Content Decryption Module provided by Adobe Systems, Incorporated add-on was already listed in the Plugins section, along with a warning Primetime Content Decryption Module provided by Adobe Systems, incorporated will be installed shortly.. From https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enable-drm the supported platforms include 32-bit versions of Firefox for Windows Vista and newer. There is no support for Mac OS X or GNU/Linux. Recall Les claiming that it could be considered problematic of Firefox to even create a build for proprietary operating systems, and I disagreed for a number of reasons. However, those reasons assumed Firefox would be equal for all operating systems. The risk here as I see it is that Firefox will support something like NetFlix only for people running proprietary operating systems, and many of those people won't recognise the harm (and may not even realize Netflix is using browser-supported DRM). Those people will now have an even harder time when they want to migrate to GNU/Linux, since that's one more application they will need to immediately replace. So in this case, if Mozilla is going to implement a bad solution, I feel it would be better that they made it *equally bad* for all platforms, as strange as that may seem. Of course if DRM is going to continue to be supported, I would rather that download not be the default - or better yet, not even advertised. Let Netflix advertise that specific version if they require it, so users have a clearer idea what is happening. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Updated letter to Mozilla for Day Against DRM
On 30/04/15 21:14, Scott Junner wrote: So given it's just human nature and it's never going to stop, and therefore the work of FSF will never be done, what do we do to keep it in check? We call each other on our shit. We be fierce friends. Great perspective, and well said. If we are going to be their friend. Their real friend. Their fierce friend. Then we need to be prepared to get our toes smelly by putting our foot firmly up their ass and calling them on their shit. We'll probably have a falling out. They probably won't talk to us for a while. They'll get all indignant and mutter something about how freedom means being able to do what they want. The'll probably go off and have a great time with their new nice fair weather friends. But eventually they'll figure it out, and they'll miss having our foot in uncomfortable places. They'll remember who their real friends are. Or not. We have no control. But we can be unreasonable, uncompromising, real friends. You cracked me up (to the point where laughter almost woke my wife up) - this was easily one of the most amusing posts I've ever read on this list. But it's so true! So true. :) -Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Firefox addons
On 12/02/15 13:29, Brian May wrote: See https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2015/02/10/extension-signing-safer-experience/ The following threads on the mailing list appear to be relevant (I haven't read them yet): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.addons.user-experience/qIgLq28aTdI https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.addons.user-experience/slaKs943n4c Thanks. So Mozilla is to become a central signing authority for add-ons, and all add-ons must be signed before they will be installable on upcoming Firefox releases. Colour me impressed. I'm all for having add-ons signed. I take that pretty seriously actually, and I didn't try Arch for years because they didn't support package signing (which they have apparently since sorted). But there are some big differences between what Mozilla is doing, and what other free software projects do that distribute packages (such as Debian and F-Droid, for example). The main problem is that Firefox is mandating all packages be signed by Mozilla regardless of where and how the packages are distributed. I can set up my own F-Droid or Apt repository just fine (and I have actually done the later for apps installed and developed internally to my workplace) - but *I* get to sign them. I don't need to submit them to Debian first. As it stands, Mozilla is going to hurt add-on developers - making it more difficult to test releases, much harder to find beta-testers, introducing more manual steps, and an unnecessary delay in being able to release. They are going to hurt end users - they will no longer have access to old unmaintained add-ons unless they wish to learn how to fork and submit them (which is unlikely many will do). Lastly, it's going to hurt Mozilla, as IMO it further tarnishes their reputation (although they already lost most of it when they chose to support EME extensions IMO). There are other questions that have arisen, such as what will happen to add-ons that basically enable side-loading scripts such GreaseMonkey and dotjs, or add-ons that do things illegal in the US (eg. due to DMCA restrictions) but are legal outside? What about environments that do not allow private add-ons to be hosted on remote servers for fear of court orders, the NSA, or a server compromise? The responses to such questions have so far not been encouraging. I expect most GNU/Linux distributions which package rebadged versions of Firefox and popular add-ons will be disabling this functionality out of necessity anyway, but I still can't help but feel disappointed. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Mandatory ipads in schools
On 23/12/14 21:59, Russell Coker wrote: Surely the source of the f-droid app is also available so that project can be forked if they aren't getting new versions fast enough. You don't even need to go that far. Just host your own repo with newer versions of the packages. F-Droid encourages projects to host their own repo. I personally don't mind being a few weeks behind, as long as there's not too much lag on security updates. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Mandatory ipads in schools
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 04:19:07PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: But I think that a large portion of the inconvenience of running non-Google apps is due to the lack of testing. That sounds reasonable. Nexus devices are the most well known for having an unlocked boot loader. Lots of other Android phones and tablets can be unlocked if you search. I even heard that Sony had been quietly making it possible to run your own OS on their devices. Correct. Sony has a whole section on their website to help people unlock it, but it does void the warranty. http://developer.sonymobile.com/unlockbootloader/unlock-yourboot-loader/ It is quite possible to sell Android devices that are locked down and which require exploiting a bug to get root access. But there is no requirement that devices be sold in that way and there is a choice of vendors. Exactly. Having a bootloader that isn't locked or can easily be unlocked has been an important factor in my previous smartphone purchasing decisions. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Mandatory ipads in schools
On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 10:35:01AM +1100, Noah O'Donoghue wrote: On 19 December 2014 at 10:24, Ben Finney ben+freesoftw...@benfinney.id.au wrote: The advantage of Android, as contrasted with iOS, is that it's quite straightforward to never use Google Play, and there are plenty of apps available from non-Google app stores. Ben, it sure doesn't seem that way. eg http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ In fact, you have to go out of your way to avoid Google's ecosystem and buy a phone like the blackphone.. You both seem to be talking about two different things. Ben was saying that you can run whatever app store you want - you are not forced to use Google. This is absolutely true. On my Sony Xperia Z1 Ultra phablet running Android, I had no trouble at all disabling all the Google Play apps and installing F-Droid. No firmware hacking or rooting, etc. The Humble Bundle also have their own store on Android for apps you have purchased, completely outside of Google's ecosystem, for example. On the other hand, you seem to be saying that you can't avoid Google's ecosystem because Android is becoming increasingly proprietary. While I don't deny claims that Google is replacing free software apps with proprietary versions, Google does not force you to use them to date. I use F-Droid to switch back to the old free software Music app, and use the free software K-9 Mail app exclusively for e-mail. Most/all of the proprietary apps cannot be uninstalled without firmware hacking, but can be disabled to prevent them from running or even appearing in the application launcher. But this is all beside the point. The point is that you don't need Google's ecosystem to install apps on Android. You do need Apple's ecosystem to install apps on most Apple devices. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Mandatory ipads in schools
On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 11:53:55AM +1100, Noah O'Donoghue wrote: I think the main part of my argument was that there is vendor lock in on any platform. Google has less, but it's more of a technicality in the frame of the larger argument which was tablets in school environments. Because it's a technicality, you have to assess either platform on their merits in an educational environment.. Perhaps we have different ideas about what is meant by vendor lock-in. From Wikipedia: In economics, vendor lock-in, also known as proprietary lock-in or customer lock-in, makes a customer dependent on a vendor for products and services, unable to use another vendor without substantial switching costs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lockin On that page, Apple has an entire section all to itself. Google isn't mentioned at all. Now I'm certainly not a Google fan, but until they remove the option to install apps manually, or prevent use of 3rd-party application catalogue software, and lock the device down with the intent to prevent such options from being re-added, it's hardly vendor lock-in. And vendor intent is important to consider. You may be able to jailbreak out of Apple's closed ecosystem on certain devices, but it is not Apple's intent to allow it. By contrast, Google does nothing to prevent it. Even if Jailbreaking was always available, just as easy as checking the Unknown sources option in Andoid's security settings, etc., we still cannot be confident that Apple will not delete apps installed through jailbreaking (and they are currently in trouble for doing something along these lines). http://m.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/04/apple_ipod_itunes_antitrust_court_case/#content I'm not saying we shouldn't embrace app stores like F-droid, they are great, I was more just responding to the individual needs of a school, which aren't really met by f-droid's 30 or so total educational apps... Hopefully the situation improves over time. The reason why (from my POV) avoiding vendor lock-in is so important is that it means students with Android tablets can write their own application (on any device), and not have the device prevent the software from being effectively free (ie. software can be copied, distributed to fellow students, modified, modifications by fellow students shared, etc.). As soon as you tell people you can have my app, but you need to own a Mac if you want to modify it, pay Apple $100 a year, etc, in practise it's hindering the possibility of sharing free software, restricting the usefulness of the device, and inhibiting a student's ability to learn tablet programming because of it. I don't think anyone here is saying the school needs to source all its apps from F-Droid (although it would good to have apps there considered for use if appropriate). Only Apple is saying that you must source all apps from Apple if using an Apple device. :) -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Software Freedom Day is almost here
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:19:40AM +1000, Ren Wen shan wrote: It was great and thanks for your talk on games! Thanks Wenshan - glad you enjoyed it. We had a great turn-out, and the talks seemed to just keep getting better and better throughout the day. Thanks to everyone for coming along, and a special thanks to the organisers, the people who presented and ran tables, and a big thank-you to the sponsors, I'll try to get slides, along with a list of games (with download URLs and license information) posted to the event page http://www.sfd.org.au/melbourne/ later in the week. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] Software Freedom Day is almost here
Hi everyone, There will not be a Thursday FSM meet-up for the month of September. Instead, you're going to be in for a much bigger treat! This month, OpenTechSchool Melbourne[1], along with Free Software Melbourne[2], Linux Users of Victoria[3] and Electron Workshop[4] are joining forces to bring you the local Software Freedom Day event for Melbourne. The event will take place on Saturday 20th September between 10am and 4pm, and this year we have a new venue: Electron Workshop 31 Arden Street, North Melbourne. Map: http://www.sfd.org.au/melbourne/ We will be demonstrating GNU/Linux distributions, the Raspberry Pi, Arduino and more. You will also get to see free software games on the big screen - bring your laptops (and perhaps a mouse) if you want to help put some of them to a mutiplayer test! Newcomers will also be able to get help trying out and installing GNU/Linux on their machines, and can learn more about free software. We will have several guest speakers throughout the day with talks on OpenStreetMap, open source gardening, electronics, Bitcoin and more! Lunch will also be provided. The Valhalla Social Cinema will be screening a film in the space just after our celebration ends. Please consider joining them in the evening! Ticket and film info is available here: http://valhallacinema.com.au/ This event has been generously sponsored by Serversaurus[5] and Freetronics[6]. Image design work provided by Saltface Design. More information about the event is available on the Software Freedom Day Melbourne website: http://www.sfd.org.au/melbourne/ The day should be both educational and a lot of fun. Please spread the word, and I'll see you there! Cheers, Adam Links: [1]: http://www.opentechschool.org/melbourne/ [2]: http://www.freesoftware.org.au/melb/ [3]: http://luv.asn.au/ [4]: http://www.electronworkshop.com.au/ [5]: https://serversaurus.com.au/ [6]: http://www.freetronics.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] Campaign to stop the TPP
I just received a couple of urgent messages in my inbox related to the TPP, bringing the following to my attention: https://action.sumofus.org/a/tpp-ottawa-donate/2/3/?akid=6001.831468.-puyXEask=1currency=AUDrd=1sub=fwdt=1001 We were planning to be there in Vancouver and welcome them with a massive protest... we’ve just heard that TPP organizers are moving the secret talks to Ottawa -- a five hour flight away -- right at the last minute. It's disgraceful. After looking (and perhaps donating) at the above sumofus.org page, it may be worth adding your comments here if you have not already: https://openmedia.org/facetoface?src=blg -Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] Id software, Mozilla and the Gnews
Hey all, I was informed Thursday that it's pronounced I.D. software, but I do not believe that to be true. Here's a documentary on the company where they describe the origins of the name, and they definitely do not pronounce it that way. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCafnH_eisA From the meet-up, here are the links from the gnews items: New Firefox release, which has received much community backlash: * https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/05/12/133214 * http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/04/29/1638220/firefox-29-redesign * http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=13350353sid=cee01d7621130bd32543a5154b4419c9#p13350353 New Screen release (first in over 5 years!): * https://savannah.gnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=7961 New OpenSSH release which does not depend on OpenSSL: * http://it.slashdot.org/story/14/04/30/1822209/openssh-no-longer-has-to-depend-on-openssl New Mailman beta (now using Twitter bootstrap!): * http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/04/29/0253247/gnu-mailman-3-enters-beta * https://lists.stg.fedoraproject.org/archives/ (demo URL) US Supreme Court Makes It Easier To Get Lawyers Fees In Patent Cases: * http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/04/30/1555231/supreme-court-makes-it-easier-to-get-lawyers-fees-in-patent-cases MediaGoblin campaign a success! * http://mediagoblin.org/news/campaign-success.html RBDOOM-3-BFG hits 1.0 * https://github.com/RobertBeckebans/RBDOOM-3-BFG * https://github.com/RobertBeckebans/RBDOOM-3-BFG/releases/tag/v1.0.1 All Packages Needed For FreedomBox Now In Debian: * http://linux-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/04/16/1355220/all-packages-needed-for-freedombox-now-in-debian New Privacy Badger Firefox and Chrome extension: * https://www.eff.org/privacybadger Why Oracle’s Copyright Victory Over Google Is Bad News for Everyone: * http://www.wired.com/2014/05/oracle-copyright/ * https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/dangerous-ruling-oracle-v-google-federal-circuit-reverses-sensible-lower-court Net Neutrality links: * https://openmedia.org/slowlane?src=156261 * http://cms.fightforthefuture.org/tellfcc/ * http://www.occupythefcc.com/ * https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/prepare-take-action-defend-net-neutrality-heres-how-fcc-makes-its-rules SOPA's dead but pols ask ad companies to pretend SOPA is law anyway: * https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/05/pols-ad-networks-pretend-we-passed-sopa-and-never-mind-about-antitrust Mozilla announces partnership with Adobe to support Digital Restrictions Management: * https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/05/14/drm-and-the-challenge-of-serving-users/ * https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-condemns-partnership-between-mozilla-and-adobe-to-support-digital-restrictions-management * http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/14/firefox-closed-source-drm-video-browser-cory-doctorow * https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/reconciling-mozillas-mission-and-w3c-eme/ * https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/05/14/1949257 Just on that last gnews item, there was some discussion Thursday around what Mozilla was actually bundling with its browser. From The Guardian link: Mozilla says it isn’t providing DRM; it’s providing a fully open utility that automatically fetches and installs DRM from Adobe’s servers. I am unconvinced that there is a meaningful distinction between “installing DRM” and “installing code that installs DRM”. So while it is technically accurate that Mozilla isn't bundling proprietary code, depending on the implementation, they might as well be. Hopefully this is functionality that needs to be activated by the user, as opposed to having EME enabled in the browser by default (such as the way cookies are currently handled). I also found this interesting, but unexpected: But if users modify the sandbox in any way – if they add new features or improvements to it – the Adobe plug-in can detect the alteration and it will refuse to pass any more decoded video. The Mozilla sandbox comes with total openness, but without any of the freedoms that the free software movement cherishes. I wonder if unofficial Firefox builds will work with Adobe's CDM. Probably not. I also wonder if Mozilla's EME sandbox will be compatible with other CDMs. Thanks all for coming along Thursday. I particularly enjoyed seeing how the Bitcoin ATM was put together. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Nokia N900
Hi Sven, On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 10:41:03AM +1000, Sven@GMX wrote: Anyone interested in a N900 including charger and USB cable? Had been used for about 9 month (August 2013 - January 2014) and got my new Fairphone little while ago. Happy to give the N900 away for two six packs of good Cider or $35. Pick up would be Melbourne city. I don't need it, but I'd certainly like it as a spare (my N900 died last year). So if nobody else puts their hand up, let's talk. Thanks, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] TPP
Hi all, Some new TPP-related news hit my inbox today, from the guys running the http://StopTheSecrecy.net website. From the e-mail: President Obama is holding secret meetings in Asia to ram through the TPP's Internet censorship plan, which would force ISPs to monitor our Internet use, censor content, and remove entire websites. To fight back we need your help to project an attention-grabbing message on key buildings in Washington D.C. Tell decision-makers to stop the secretive TPP now so we can deliver the message before it's too late. Here's the situation: Obama himself is in secretive meetings with key political figures and lobbyists in Asia to lock the Trans-Pacific Partnership's Internet censorship plan into place. We know from leaked documents that this secretive plan will censor your use of the Internet and strip away your rights.[1] If finalized, this plan would force ISPs to act as Internet Police monitoring our Internet use, censoring content, and removing whole websites.[2] It will give media conglomerates centralized control over what you can watch and share online. This is huge: covering 40% of the global economy, the TPP is being called a legal blueprint for the rest of the world.[3] Once key leaders finalize TPP Internet censorship plans today it will be used to globalize censorship across the world. You will be affected and this may be our only chance to stop it. *Footnotes* [1] Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP). Source: WikiLeaks [ https://wikileaks.org/tpp ]. [2] TPP Creates Legal Incentives For ISPs To Police The Internet. What Is At Risk? Your Rights. Source: Electronic Frontier Foundation [ https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/tpp-creates-liabilities-isps-and-put-your-rights-risk ] [3] U.S. Bullying TPP Negotiators Amid Failure to Agree. Source: Inter Press Service News Agency [ http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/12/u-s-bullying-tpp-negotiators-amid-failure-agree ]. *Note: The U.S. and the E.U. are already discussing a similar secretive agreement called Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). Once the TPP is finalized there will be pressure to harmonize and extend its provisions to TTIP -- meaning the E.U. There are also reports of several others countries being added to the TPP once it is finalized. If this campaign is something you might be interested in, I would urge you to head on over to http://StopTheSecrecy.net as soon as you can, and make your opinion known by signing up. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] FSM crowd-funding? (was: Gooseberry - the open animation film, why it matters)
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 04:29:04PM +1000, Adrian Colomitchi wrote: Is there any problem with: I'm making a personal donation but I'd be willing this donation be considered as coming from FSM? If there is a problem, can that problem be solved somehow? (e.g. put some process in place so that FSM checks if the destination is OK then blesses with its name the transaction). I'm sure that can be arranged. There might well be people who wish to donate anonymously for whatever reason also. Ben would likely be the best qualified to identify any issues with this that need pointing out. Adrian (a somehow asocial/unsocial - whatever but not antisocial - guy who never found time to see you all face-2-face *not* for reason of donations) No worries, although I'm not sure that there was ever some expectation of donations at any of our previous meet-ups anyway. As for not having time, we're aware that the usual date and time does not suit everyone (if that's a factor for you). It has been briefly discussed at the previous meet-up (see Ben's meeting notes posted on the 26th of March), so let us know if you have any thoughts. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Free software discussion group this Thursday 20th March
Greetings all, This coming Thursday (tomorrow night) is the next scheduled meet-up for our Free software discussion group, and it's a very important one. We have a few things lined up which we'd like to discuss. * Ben has a couple of new freedom-respecting gadgets for show and tell. * Items in recent news, such as: - GOG announcing DRM-free games for GNU/Linux (albeit proprietary) - LibrePlanet 2014 - MediaGoblin updates - back doors discovered by the Replicant project in Samsung phones. - Mailpile If there are other important/interesting topics you feel should be discussed, feel free to suggest them on the night. However, the main topic of the night is expected to be the committee elections. Hopefully we get a good showing of people interested in voting (although voting isn't compulsory). If anyone is interested, we'll go out to dinner somewhere nearby afterwards. Date: Thursday 20 March Time: 6-9pm Location: VPAC Head Office Training Room Level 1, Building 91, 110 Victoria Street A map is on the website: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/ See you all there! Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] Free Software Melbourne Gaming Event - Thur 21st Nov
Greetings all, As you may be aware, we have a very special Free Software Melbourne meet-up scheduled for Thursday night. It's time to get your game face on! :) We're going to be playing a variety of free software games, including old favourites such as OpenArena, Teeworlds and even Super Tux Kart. Additionally, we'll be putting the projector to good use and taking Alex's new Cargo game for a spin. I assure you, it's quite entertaining. So if you have a laptop or netbook, make sure to bring it (and perhaps your mouse and power adapter too). If you have a USB game-pad you'd like to try any of the games with, make sure you bring that along as well. Even PS2 and Xbox game-pads can generally work quite easily (so long as you have a USB adapter). Dinner sponsorship is yet to be confirmed, however we are planning to order pizzas. If you're interested and have any special dietary requirements, please let Alex know in advance to make sure we have you covered. If you don't already have the games, installer files or packages will be provided on the night (as well as the source code, naturally)! The meet-up will be held at our usual VPAC time and location: Date: Thursday 21st November Time: 6-9pm Location: VPAC Head Office Training Room Level 1, Building 91, 110 Victoria Street However if you can't make the location, fear not! This time we're prepared to try hosting external dedicated servers for the night so people that live too far away can still join in the fun. If this sounds like something you want to see, please post to the free-software-melb list to express interest. For everyone else, see you Thursday! Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] Free software discussion group this Thursday 17th October
Hi everybody, It feels like it's been a long time coming but it's almost here - the next Melbourne free software discussion meet-up is this Thursday 17th. We have some interesting topics lined up too, including: * Alex's Cargo game release. If you enjoy computer games but don't know what this is about, learn about one of the most interesting free software game releases this year. We want to get the word out, so we will be discussing ways in which we can promote this great software, as well as free software projects in general. * The Cloud is great, but what about freedom? Getting up and running with software is easier than ever thanks to cloud technologies such as SaaS (or SaaSS!), but does it respect your privacy? Do you have the ability to change the way it works, install it on your own computers, or give a custom version to your friends? How can we protect our freedom? * Volunteer burnout Organizing conferences based around free software (and in general!) is usually a lot of work, and Bianca will briefly discuss the problem of burnout. Burnout isn't limited to conferences however, and being a major contributor to a popular free software project can be a lot of work as well. This should make for an interesting discussion topic. Pizzas will be generously provided by VPAC Innovations! It should be a fun and interesting night, so don't forget to mark it on your calendar if you have not already. Date: Thursday 17 October Time: 6-9pm Location: VPAC Head Office Training Room Level 1, Building 91, 110 Victoria Street A map is on the website: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/ If you've not come along to one of these meet-ups before, I encourage you to swing by see what it's all about. To everyone else, I hope to see you all there! Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] GnuPG key management
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 05:04:50PM +1000, Glenn McIntosh wrote: On 12/08/13 15:49, Ben Finney wrote: Rather, the purpose of your signature is to say “I met this person, verified they are who they say they are, and this person tells me this is their email address and public key”. I don't think of it that way; when I sign GPG keys, I am signing each uid separately. Some uids contain an email address for that person, and I'd like to know that the address is actually connected to them when I sign it. Just as there might be another uid that is a photo, and signing it means that I recognize the photo to be of that person. This is a really good point. I'm not sure which side of the fence is best, but I feel that we should quickly discuss this point on Thursday if time permits. On one hand, when in doubt I'd like to err on the safe side. On the other hand, my key currently has two e-mail uids and I believe some people have quite a few, so signing uids individually, encrypting them and sending them out to each address could get tedious very quickly. It seems PIUS ( http://www.phildev.net/pius/ ) might be an easy way to solve just this problem, so I might give it a try. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Keysigning party
On 09/08/13 12:53, Fraser Tweedale wrote: I wrote a key submission application that you might find useful. It's pretty spartan, but I've use it for keysigning parties at linux.conf.au and other conferences and it does the job. https://github.com/frasertweedale/pgpsubmit Looks neat. I'll look into it more closely if I have time (probably not before this months meet-up though). Oh and I should also mention https://github.com/frasertweedale/gcaff which is a friendlier alternative to caff for signing multiple keys. Even has a GUI! I attempted to open some of the Debian keyrings just to see what the GUI looked like, but it would always fail with an uncaught exception. Didn't spend too much time on it, but I like the idea. On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 12:20:05PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: I think we will use some middle ground between the “Sassaman” URL:http://keysigning.org/methods/sassaman-efficient and “Ad hoc” URL:http://keysigning.org/methods/adhoc. Specifically, I think the party will be small enough to use Ad hoc, but the central point of contact to co-ordinate the participating keys will be helpful. I'm expecting a number of people will not have any GnuPG experience, so am intending to provide a small presentation on the subject. If people bring laptops, they might create decide to create keys on the spot. I know this isn't ideal, but I think it's important to prioritise helping people get started. As the meet-up is only a few days away, it's probably not reasonable to expect everyone will have time to send me keys prior to the event. Happy to do this if people want, but I agree with your assessment that leaning towards ad hoc might be the way to go. Depending on how we go for time, how many people turn up (and interest levels), I'd even be happy to continue keysigning while waiting on dinner - if there are no objections, anyway. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Keysigning party
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:02:42AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: Adam Bolte abo...@systemsaviour.com writes: As the meet-up is only a few days away, it's probably not reasonable to expect everyone will have time to send me keys prior to the event. Happy to do this if people want, but I agree with your assessment that leaning towards ad hoc might be the way to go. Depending on how we go for time, how many people turn up (and interest levels), I'd even be happy to continue keysigning while waiting on dinner - if there are no objections, anyway. It's also worth noting that a keysigning party has a misleading name: The purpose of the party is not to sign keys at the party :-) Excellent point. The actual signing of keys is usually done at one's leisure *after* the party. That's true, although I'll be prepared to walk first timers through it (not that there's much to it anyway). So if anyone would like to send me their keys before Wednesday night, I can make the key list available at that time - either via a temporary URL which I'll post here, or (if anyone requests it) e-mailing people back directly. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] GNU FDL and software freedom
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 04:12:36PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: Adam Bolte abo...@systemsaviour.com writes: Thinking about it logically, it would be quite silly if it were true. When it comes to copyright law, the sad fact is that it behaves extremely *illogically*. So “that would be illogical if it behaved that way” is, if anything, a hint that it may indeed behave that way :-) We have to deal with the law as it is, and copyright law is not logical. Expecting it to be logical is going to lead to delusion about how the law actually is. Fair point. The never ending copyright extensions spring to mind. One cannot underestimate the problems caused by greed. :/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] GNU FDL and software freedom
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 05:17:44PM +1000, Adrian Colomitchi wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Adam Bolte abo...@systemsaviour.comwrote: 2. there exists things stranger than you think is this words. E.g. the Millau Viaduct was copyrighed *as design* by the architect (Lord Norman Foster) and still is. His lordship chose to grant *the management* of the intellectual property rights to the company that operates/maintains it http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=26524091 . Now, you either use a browser with the Flash Payer installed, navigate to http://www.leviaducdemillau.com/en_index.php and, bottom of the page pick Legale notice to read it yourself, or you believe me when I'm saying that *this company is the sole legal entity that can grant the right for the use of the pictures of that bridge*. Different jurisdictions surely have different copyright laws and interpretations too, so I'm not entirely surprised. Oh look - it's on Wikipedia under a CC BY-SA 3.0 license. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millau_Viaduct :) Think you caught me pants down, are you ? :) Haha. :) No, you are not looking to the picture of Millau Viaduct, but at photo of Creiselles!. Doh Oh well. I tried. ;) I'm really surprised that it is legal to ban photographs of something that takes up such a considerable size of land that is open to the public. Would be especially surprised if such laws were respected outside of France, but I guess secret international trade agreements could make it happen at any time. If you read the Description of the image filehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Creissels_et_Viaduct_de_Millau.jpg, you'll find that the picture actually depicts: *Blick auf Creissels* *mit der Autobahnbrücke im Hintergrund* (translation: *the **view of Creissels* *with the highway bridge in the background*). If it would be a picture of the Millau Viaduct itself, you wouldn't be looking to it on Wikipedia, as Wikipedia is very serious about copyright (greed motivated or not). Hmm. Well... Google Images to the rescue!! http://images.google.com/search?site=tbm=ischsource=hpbiw=1280bih=843q=Millau+Viaductoq=Millau+Viaductgs_l=img.12..0l10.57021.57021.0.57346.1.1.0.0.0.0.214.214.2-1.1.0.cqrwrth...0...1.1.22.img..0.1.214.g7y5foz7NxY Although I'd probably not want to be sued for hosting them myself. The explanation: if you go the http://www.leviaducdemillau.com/en_index.php and navigate/read the legal notice, you discover that: no image exists ... of the Millau Viaduct that is copyright free (except images of landscapes in which the Viaduct, *shown into background*, *is not the main subject of the image*) No matter what I do, I always end up being redirected to a page that's not in English. :/ Oh well - I believe you. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] GNU FDL and software freedom
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 09:42:56AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: Adrian Colomitchi acolomit...@gmail.com writes: But any other works derived from the said documentation that are used *for other purposes* won't be restricted by copyright law, no matter the license under which the original documentation is published. That seems flatly false. Copyright applies (or does not apply) to a work regardless of the purpose the recipient has for it. If you receive a work under the FDL, it applies whether you want to use it as documentation or music or a program or whatever. No it's not - or at least it certainly isn't always the case. http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/07/23/0115242/copyright-drama-reaches-3d-printing-world Reading through the discussion there, the general consensus seems to be that the copyright of 3D designs do not extend to the use of 3D-printed objects. Thinking about it logically, it would be quite silly if it were true. Imagine the problems it would impose - may not be able to use my own mug to drink from because I don't comply with the license of the design, etc. I'm sure there would be other examples outside of 3D printing where the original copyright would not apply to works outside of the original scope. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] GNU FDL and software freedom
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 09:12:56AM +1000, Brian May wrote: On 24 July 2013 08:43, Adrian Colomitchi acolomit...@gmail.com wrote: If I change an open source program, chances are the original documentation no longer applies any more. So I really should be updating the documentation too. If however there are barriers to updating the documentation, e.g. for some misconceived reason the copyright owner decided to make that part invariant, then I won't update it. As discussed previously, the FDL's optional invariant sections do not apply to the actual documentation. Your examples regarding this problem don't apply. Another common example given on the Debian mailing lists is if I want to produce a condensed version of the documentation, e.g. one that will fit on a single A5 sheet of paper for example. It may not be possible if I have to include invariant sections. That's the more practical edge case that Ben (and yourself I suppose) is objecting to, however even that extreme example is unlikely to be a problem. People licensing work under the FDL are not likely thinking about restricting the end user. This is clearly not the intent of the license. I'm sure simply writing to the author requesting permission for that specific use case would likely suffice. There might be reasons why that wouldn't work, but it shouldn't be much of a problem in the realm of IT, where programs are typically outdated and replaced quite fast - the copyright holders are likely to still be contactable, as opposed to copyright holders of a work of fiction or some such where the author could have died some time ago. As has been pointed out, these are exceptional edge cases that are very likely solvable one way or another should they ever actually occur. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] GNU FDL and software freedom
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 04:50:51PM +1000, Adrian Colomitchi wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Ben Finney ben+freesoftw...@benfinney.id.au wrote: Adam Bolte abo...@systemsaviour.com writes: Once again, your definition conflicts with what the legal Free Dictionary appears to be (linked above). A PDF is generally a product of a computer program - not a computer program itself. You're aware that PDF data is an executable program in (a limited subset of) the PostScript programming language? Every PDF document is rendered by *running the program* in an interpreter. Every PDF is both a document and a program. I suppose that next you're going to say that this e-mail is an executable program as well? No, because it is not normally executed in order to render it. A PDF *must* be executed to render it. Every PDF is both a program and a document. Yes, it is. Reading an email (or any text) is conceptually in no way different than reading a PDF. (that is: unless you chose to read it straight from the storage media). Take for instance an HTML mail - isn't there need to be an HTML interpreter to read the email? (well, of course you call it renderer or formatter, but in essence this is what the HTML formatter will do: it will interpret the HTML of your email body to render your human readable image of the email). Mind you: while PS/PDF is formatted as scripts in an imperative programming language (a Forth derivative), it doesn't make any scripts in a descriptive programming language a non-program (that is: data only). I argue that, in essence, the read an ASCII text on the display, there need to be an ASCII interpreter to transform the ASCII/ANSI bytes of the text in the groups of lit pixels which make the sense to you (a human) as readable glyphs. BTW, I argue the same is valid in reverse: the source-code of an application is nothing but data, unless you choose to launch it into execution - without he help of the OS (and potentially the build tools), the source-code is in no way different than a piece of literature. For example, if one chooses so, one may write a C to music-score transpilerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-to-source_compiler and interpret that source code as music (and consider the source code as interpretative art). Where does it let the FDL issue at hand? I don't know... but my point is: probably one need to abandon the track of what you technically need to consume those bytes and substitute it with (or, at least, supplement it with) considerations based on the nature of the intended consumption to deal with the documentation vs application differences. Those are good points, and I feel that your conclusion is quite reasonable. However, making assumptions about the nature of the intended consumption is one of the fundamental disagreements Ben seems to have with the FDL. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Conflict between software freedom and trademark restrictions
On 21/07/13 13:02, Ben Finney wrote: Adam Bolte abo...@systemsaviour.com writes: On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:23:08PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: It depends on what compromises the trademark owner is able/prepared to make. My gut feeling is that if the trademarks do not permit modification and redistribution in such a way that there is no longer any clear association with the original trademark, they belong in non-free - if anywhere. Right. The conflict, of course, is that this completely undermines the purpose of trademark. Specifically, the purpose of preventing uses of the mark that would mislead consumers about the provenance of a product. That purpose of trademark is, in my view, of benefit to society. Yet full software freedom of the recipient is *also* of benefit to society. I think that trademark has a significant benefit to society, which is to limit the tendencies of vendors to misrepresent their modified works as though being whatever the customer is looking for — even if that vendor has made incompatible or undesirable changes which are contradictory to what the customer would expect from the brand. Some copyright licenses attempt to clumsily use copyright law to do this, e.g. the 3-clause BSD license has as a condition that no-one may use the name of the copyright holder to “endorse or promote” the redistributed work. Other copyright licenses have explicit permission to combine the copyright license's terms with trademark terms that restrict the use of marks, e.g. the GPLv3. The usefulness of trademarks is pointed out here, and I did not see this clearly earlier. The problem with trademarks is that it assumes that I would trust the application brand more than the people distributing the software. I would always put more trust in my distribution than any application, and if I didn't I would get the build directly from the application's official website, or grab the distribution source package and inspect the list of patches. Seems that's probably just me. :) So to summarise the benefits of trademark for a second, they might be as follows. To the company: * increased brand recognition * some clear association of a product with a company For the end user: * recognisable name (easier to discover) * brand that the user trusts All the concern seems to be on that last point - the company with the trademark wants to ensure that a quality software build is associated with the brand, but not necessarily a bad build with unsupported patches, etc. This goes against free software, hence the problem. What if there were a way in GNU/Linux distributions to easily identify unofficial builds of trademarked software to the user? Maybe have an included system that simply prompts the user to accept execution of unofficial builds on first program execution, and puts a symbol next to the application launcher to remind the user as such. Regardless of how it would be implemented, if there were some standard for trademarks in free software that required unofficial builds to set a flag that would somehow make it obvious to the user, would that solve all concerns, and enable the trademark holders to relax their restrictions for distributions which enable it? The Mozilla Corporation could then just dictate that unofficial builds that wish to use our trademarks must make it clear that the build is unofficial to the end user by doing such-and-such (which the aforementioned program would take care of automatically). I think that would probably satisfy the DFSG too. But those either ignore or punt the issue to trademark. The question still remains: what restrictions on the freedom of any recipient are acceptable in exchange for preventing the societal harms trademark law is designed to address? I don't know what the maximum acceptable restrictions would be, but I agree that it would be great to have some guidelines to clearly define it. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] Free software discussion group this Thursday 18 July
Hi everyone, Our next monthly meet-up will soon be upon us, and we've got a great line-up of talks and discussions prepared, including: * Pirate Party's take on copyright, patent and privacy (Ben McGinnes, Pirate Party) * Ouya game console: Does Ouya respect your freedom? (Adam Bolte) * Alex's free software release: Raster Storage Archive (Alex Fraser) * Followed by dinner at a nearby restaurant Don't forget to mark it on your calendar - Date: Thursday 18 July Time: 6-9pm Location: VPAC Head Office Training Room Level 1, Building 91, 110 Victoria Street A map is on the website: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/ New faces are always welcome. Hope to see you all there! Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
[free-software-melb] GPG encryption by default
Lately, I've been running my MUA with e-mail configured to encrypt e-mail by default. This has the side-effect that whenever I want to e-mail somebody who does not have a PGP/GPG key, or has not given me his/her key, I have to go nag them. Otherwise, I have to keep unticking the Encrypt Message box, or make an exception in my configuration specifically for that particular person (or mail list, as the case may be). It also means that, since I'm basically forcing people to get into the habit of reading encrypted messages, more people will have their e-mail client configured correctly and are more likely to also send encrypted e-mail (or at least help make it socially acceptable). Since running with this setup, I haven't really had many complaints. After all, if somebody didn't want to receive encrypted e-mail they simply won't have a public key for me to encrypt a message with. I have discovered that some people are quite happy to try using GPG encryption regularly, but have never had a strong motivation to do so (possibly due to not knowing anyone else who might be interested), and also may not have participated in any key-signing, which would perhaps lessen its usefulness. The only complaint I've heard of so far has come from people who (perhaps not exclusively) use the GMail web interface, who apparently can still use GPG in text fields with browser extensions, but lose the ability to search through existing encrypted email. I don't actually feel too bad about this (see below), but am not sure what the correct response to this problem is (given that the people in question seem big Google fans and are generally reluctant to give it up). On the flip side, I'm conscious that Google could very well be (and probably is) building up a profile on me, even without owning a Google account. If I'm exchanging unencrypted e-mails with enough people who use GMail or Google Apps (without GPG encryption), it would not make much difference who controls my e-mail server. I'm also conscious that it's absolutely not in Google's best interests to support GPG, or any other type of encryption that they cannot decrypt - official GPG support from Google for any e-mail interfaces it provides will not be forthcoming. Since I imagine a lot of people interested in free software would also be big on privacy, I would like to know what other people here think of the idea of leaving GPG encryption on by default. Does anyone practise it? Is there any good reason why we shouldn't? -Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Chipping in for an Ouya console?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 28/06/13 23:37, Matt Giuca wrote: Did you guys end up chipping in for one? Not as a group. Did anybody get theirs? Yes. Mine arrived on Thursday. The cardboard box was damp and looked like someone had used it as a football... but amazingly the contents inside were unarmed. I got mine this week, and I am severely disappointed from both a freedom and security standpoint that it requires me to enter a credit card before I can even turn it on. This controversy was uncovered some months back, so I was expecting to need a credit card. Some information here: https://support.ouya.tv/entries/23463832-Why-do-you-HAVE-to-put-in-credit-debit-card-information-even-for-free-apps-games- - From the link, Ouya support stated Other than being able to download games via the Discover section, absolutely no other functionality will require that you provide payment information. Period. We know this isn't true - you need to enter this information before you can even log in. Apparently you can load your own .apk files onto the device to run, but you wouldn't even be able to get that far without having some credit verified up front (unless hacking the device, of course). Fortunately, instead of a credit card, you also have the option of using a pre-paid credit code. These were apparently available during pre-order, and can be brought from various places online. eg. http://www.game.co.uk/en/ouya-10-credit-232744 So while some available credit must be verified (which I'm not defending - this aspect of the Ouya console sucks), it seems that you don't have to hand over your credit card to Ouya to store indefinitely if you don't want to. I have a spare debit card which I never have any money in, and I leave at home just for emergencies. eg. If my wallet gets stolen, I can cancel my cards and transfer money to my spare debit card account online while waiting for a replacement. This is the card I used when signing up for an Ouya account. When I made a game purchase (more on this below), I transfered money to the account associated with the card first. That way, I don't have to trust Ouya, and transferring money is still probably easier than dealing with buying pre-paid credit. https://plus.google.com/108688191891412975833/posts/baejsGtfX3C To address your concern of accidentally being charged for games by button-mashing, the one game I purchased to date gave the impression that the Ouya payment API forces certain GUI changes, based on the way the UI suddenly appeared - it looked very Android-ish, which was a stark contrast to everything else in-game. In any case, you can also configure (under the Parental menu) that you must enter a PIN first to make any purchase. A boss had just appeared after maybe 30 or so minutes of game-play. Then a message appeared asking me to purchase the game if I wanted to continue. Clicking Purchase(?) (this is from memory of course), I was told the game would cost $4.99, and then I had to click another button, Confirm IIRC, and then click one more time to dispel the message that I had successfully paid. Then i was back in the game. Having witnessed this myself, I can confirm that it was all very smooth and nicely handled. I can understand why they want a credit card up front (and it probably doesn't hurt that Ouya can say to potential developers we have X number of people with an Ouya console and credit on file ready to make purchases). Possibly if people had to quit the game, go to Discover, purchase the game, possibly wait for something to download, and then load the game up again and get back to my last checkpoint, some people wouldn't bother. They might go to the store and say hey, there's 200 other demos here that I haven't tried out and instead of paying for the game will just go play something else. And that's Ouya's thing - every game must provide a no-cost playable component. If purchases could not happen in game, I expect commercial game developers might have good reason to be scared of people just playing demos and not making purchases. So it is clear to me that this mandatory credit was deliberately enforced as a marketing factor above all else. In the context of a game console, I'm pretty happy with the Ouya. There have been a few surprises (such as the built-in track-pad on the controller which I only discovered by accident), and of course Make being right on the main menu where you can run your software builds from. Already I have more games on my Ouya then I have for my Wii-U. - From a free software perspective however, it's been somewhat of a letdown. Apparently, the boot-loader is locked. There was no reference on the device or in the printed documentation (that I noticed, anyway) to the source code, or the GPL etc. although everything does appear to have been dumped on GitHub. They may have released more code than any other major game console to date, but it's not as much as I had hoped for. These HackPad notes
Re: [free-software-melb] Chipping in for an Ouya console?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Matt, On 30/06/13 17:35, Matt Giuca wrote: Thanks for a clear and detailed summary of your Ouya experiences. No worries. Right back at you. It sucks that there are journalists going around saying that the Ouya is less restrictive than it actually is (for certain, apparently randomly selected, customers). Yes. I have noticed this too. When I first turned on the device, there was a large firmware update that needed to be applied, so possibly in doing that it has changed the initial sign-up behavior for those of us who only very recently received our Ouya devices. Fortunately, instead of a credit card, you also have the option of using a pre-paid credit code. These were apparently available during pre-order, and can be brought from various places online. eg. http://www.game.co.uk/en/ouya-10-credit-232744 So while some available credit must be verified (which I'm not defending - this aspect of the Ouya console sucks), it seems that you don't have to hand over your credit card to Ouya to store indefinitely if you don't want to. But then I have to pay them more money up front (which I don't feel they deserve right now) and also wait for a physical card to be shipped internationally. You're right. Hopefully cdkey-hut.com or some such will add Ouya support soon, so we can pay anonymously and without waiting on postage. Still would have to pay something up-front though. I'm happier to get a general-purpose debit card. At least then I can use the credit elsewhere, not just on Ouya. There are cards that do not require opening a full bank account from Australia Post and Woolworths. I'm trying to decide which one is better. They both have some nasty drawbacks (like credit expiration and cancellation fees). Interesting. I haven't looked into them, so know nothing about them. I would definitely configure a PIN just in case I don't find myself mashing the shoot button and a dialog pops up and I accidentally mash the Buy for $100 button. I'm pretty sure that there isn't any game on Ouya at that price. From game.co.uk, Every OUYA game is free to try, but unlocking the game, additional features or extra play time can cost between £1 to £20. I've been quite impressed with how cheap the games are priced at so far. Your point still stands though. And that's Ouya's thing - every game must provide a no-cost playable component. If purchases could not happen in game, I expect commercial game developers might have good reason to be scared of people just playing demos and not making purchases. So it is clear to me that this mandatory credit was deliberately enforced as a marketing factor above all else. Yeah. I get that, and it's a good hook for them, but I still want to be given the choice, as a consumer. Don't give me this bullshit about it being more convenient for me when you're forcing me to do it. Me having to spend a week researching debit cards is certainly not more convenient. Yep. We're forcing you to do this because we know what's best, it's more convenient for everyone, and what's best for everyone is best for you too is a shockingly unconvincing response by the Ouya crew. On second thoughts, perhaps the Ouya crew are correct - only they mean that it's more convenient *for them* to make us do this. In the context of a game console, I'm pretty happy with the Ouya. There have been a few surprises (such as the built-in track-pad on the controller which I only discovered by accident), and of course Make being right on the main menu where you can run your software builds from. Already I have more games on my Ouya then I have for my Wii-U. - From a free software perspective however, it's been somewhat of a letdown. Apparently, the boot-loader is locked. Really? That's not what their Kickstarter page says: For hackers: root it. Go ahead. Your warranty is safe. Even the hardware is hackable. Hmm.. perhaps that link is wrong. I found a forum thread which contradicts the previous link: http://forums.ouya.tv/discussion/1380/recovery-mode/ The issue is not that the bootloader is locked... The issue is that there is no way to tell the bootloader to interrupt normal boot and enter fastboot mode. Devices usually have a hardware button combination to do this. That's even more troubling if it isn't even possible to change the operating system if necessary. So it looks like it's possible - it's just not easy, and not easy to recover from when things go bad. - -Adam -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRz/BkAAoJEE2M/Tk0piBIN0sIAICJRbQ+X37TcRvp/yf/C+Rn aWT9rBXXlGn5h9vN+N6uEisLFnokJ8eb49wpJkGg9hNCNMGW1IP523MW2FTLRRWt QTJqTh0jkHpSi2USRkL0R6xuKTwbSWqjeACi0we3yDtiZTPb3AySOW0ekM/snSLE Fod7ixNVQRfZXrX7HUeJB636pkmdfbmRe9sIHn6bFZK+79MT6xc+crSf1ZnY0vlV
[free-software-melb] June meet-up summary
Hi all, Thanks to everyone who was able to make it to our Thursday meet-up. It turned out to be a great night, with so much to talk about that some discussion ideas were skipped and we still ran over time! == Topics covered == Main discussion topics of the night included: * Committee election * H-Node http://h-node.org/ * Think Penguin https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ * Raster Storage Engine https://github.com/vpac/rsa * Software Freedom Day http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/ More on the wiki (see below). == Meeting notes now on our Wiki == I'd like to announce that going forward, I will try to post meeting notes on our wiki. This will make for easy reference going forward, as well as allow for edits by anyone with more information in case I missed something or made an error. Ben has put a lot of work into setting it up and keeping it spam-free, so it would be a shame not to make the most of his efforts. I have added the June meeting notes page here: http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/meetingNotes/20130620 == Committee elections == Perhaps the most important discussions for the night related to planning how the committee would work (such as questioning the number of committee members required), identifying and assigning responsibilities, and ultimately deciding who would be on the committee by way of election. It was decided that committee members will hold their position for a six month period, at which time elections will once again be held. This short period was partly agreed upon to be fairer for those who were unable to attend the night and missed the opportunity to vote or request nominations. Those elected, and the positions of those elected, include: President: Alex Fraser Vice President: Ben Sturmfels Secretary: Adam Bolte Treasurer: Ben Finney Responsibilities that these roles entail will also be added to the wiki shortly. Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Recommendations for XMPP servers
On 21/06/13 19:22, Brian May wrote: On 21/06/2013 6:51 PM, Ben Finney ben+freesoftw...@benfinney.id.au wrote: I wasn't specific enough here: I mean “which services are good to recommend”, i.e. recommendations to give to people who aren't going to set up their own server softweare but want an existing, hosted service where they can get an XMPP account. I use jabber.org.au See https://jabber.org.au/ from memory. I run my own XMPP server (ejabber), but I have people on my roster that use the DuckDuckGo XMPP servers at dukgo.com. Setup instructions here: https://dukgo.com/blog/using-pidgin-with-xmpp-jabber Information about the privacy policy in place (which appears to be one of the best) down the bottom of this post: https://dukgo.com/blog/xmpp-services-at-duckduckgo I feel that having a well thought-out privacy policy is very important, particularly for a communications service - and it's something that jabber.org.au seems to lack. There are two concerns I have with DuckDuckGo's XMPP offering however: 1. DuckDuckGo is a US company. If they aren't logging anything and you trust the encryption in place, that perhaps may not be too concerning. 2. The DuckDuckGo XMPP service uses a self-signed certificate, and no fingerprint is provided. This would seem to introduce some risk of a man in the middle attack. Due to concern 2, I find DuckDuckGo currently difficult to recommend (but I don't know anything better to suggest). Hopefully they sort it out soon. -Adam signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] [free-software-melb-announce] Reminder of Free Software Melbourne tomorrow evening (Thu 20 June)
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 04:16:39PM +1000, Chris Samuel wrote: On 20/06/13 16:09, Andrew Pam wrote: You saw that this was just a build error and MariaDB did not report it to Oracle before publicising it? I don't see any reason why MariaDB should have assumed that it was a bug in the first place. In any case, it underscores the importance of projects that don't mandate copyright reassignment. As Fedora, RHEL, Arch, Slackware and others now use MariaDB by default (with Debian bug #565308 already discussing it for Jessie, and it already having been included in openSUSE as an option for a while), it seems only a matter of time until most people will make the switch. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Discussion group and committee election next Thursday 20 June
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 03:10:29PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: I had anticipated having a ThinkPenguin delivery before tonight's meeting, but it is currently at Customs (not yet being held, just normal processing AFAICT) so won't have that to talk about. Still waiting on my Ouya device to arrive too. Perhaps Ben has had more luck? I know some people in Australia have had them arrive. My existing notebook computer is specifically built by ThinkPenguin to work with free software, and we can discuss that more generally too; it's not the new shiny though. I had ordered a machine to work with free software a few months back, but apparently was still waiting on the parts after a series of delays (not ThinkPengiun though). When my current laptop started failing I had to cancel the order and just get something readily available. I'll bring in what I ended up with and talk about my experiences with it. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] [Fwd: [SFD-announce] SFD 2013 registration is now ON!]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 17/06/13 20:08, Lev Lafayette wrote: Is the Melbourne Free Software Group interesting in taking up the role of organising Software Freedom Day this year? LUV has done it a few years in succession now, but it's really something that should be in the domain of Melbourne FS. I have to agree. We should definitely discuss this at the meet-up this Thursday. As we're planning on putting together a committee, should we agree to head SFD for Melbourne, those elected should immediately have their work cut out for them. :) Cheers, Adam -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRvvwEAAoJEE2M/Tk0piBIyGoIALKijvJwxEO3fXLV/OnefDNV WPcOGeaKfeGsa9S130P+rCAQ2c9CTgUlHemt8j90yT8YpRRtv067DwJjgnu4qQ2h WWSPs50jCsMk8yO+wrlNrdKUEVXiM/5B5oZZFaM+AWV1Fidu/lRWCByCpxjY89L0 hdX+Y/n3pSiqqtO+V7dcsGJUrFFmu85U8XELnS9cU1N+0jGq1V029HNS4mSuv831 NlAxBrSXEPLRJOuNFWt5/j82abazHcJUHPhP1Mxsfgb36MEKymeKvWukdOtjJID4 SAjNlAkhoaZqeVFWaU+XyeIklpIgB/po3F3RxofAm4M9GdWKKXLoQ2KZIIevyPk= =Wdio -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Free software discussion group this Thurs 21 March
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:22:55AM +1100, Chris Samuel wrote: On 20/03/13 10:56, Adam Bolte wrote: That's a pretty old version of Pidgin though. According to the Pidgin FullChangeLog, 2.7.9 was released late 2010. Yeah, but he's stuck with RHEL6 as part of his employers SOE. :-/ Sounds painful. He doesn't have a compiler? :) signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] November meeting and audio recordings
Hi all, On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 02:24:42PM +1100, Ben Sturmfels wrote: As an experiment to allow us to reach a wider audience, we recorded both the audio and video from these talks. I've edited the audio recordings and uploaded them here: http://archive.org/details/NetworkServicesFromHome http://archive.org/details/PrivacyOnTheWeb The videos and slides may also be available at these URLs shortly, just working out some logistics. Better late than never, I've uploaded the first video (complete with slides) here: http://archive.org/details/NetworkServicesFromHome-FreeSoftwareMelbournePresentation Regards, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/
Re: [free-software-melb] Donating to free software (was: GNU Media Goblin crowd-funding campaign)
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:07:26AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: On Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Kirsten Larsen kirs...@eaterprises.com.au wrote: and can I throw an option into the mix for future - diaspora ( http://diasporaproject.org/) - seems like facebook is determined to kill itself through greed and i wonder if a strong push of support at the right time could increase chances of flight to diaspora rather than (or as well as) google+ / twitter? Is anyone here running it? I've looked at it in the past, but with a combination of no Debian package and dependency issues I didn't bother proceeding. Not right now. I intend to attempt to setup my own pod very soon, and will likely discuss how it went at the next meet-up. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] Donating to free software (was: GNU Media Goblin crowd-funding campaign)
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:24:59PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: On Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Adam Bolte abo...@systemsaviour.com wrote: Not right now. I intend to attempt to setup my own pod very soon, and will likely discuss how it went at the next meet-up. Will you offer accounts to people here? It wasn't my intention. I just run my server off of my home ADSL connection, so uptime and uplink bandwidth are not ideal. Additionally, I'd want to take security more seriously than I currently am if offering such accounts. However, having said that I'd be happy to help out in setting up a pod for the Melbourne Free Software group if we could organise better hosting. How difficult is it to migrate an account from one pod to another? Haven't tried. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] Games Night
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 04:03:55PM +1100, Andrew Pam wrote: On 14/10/12 23:14, Andrew Pam wrote: You may also find my site useful: http://games.sericyb.com.au/ And here's another list of FOSS games I just added to my site: http://sourceforge.net/p/forge/community-docs/SourceForge%20Games/ Those are some great lists guys. It's going to take me some time to work through them all. Thanks for sharing! -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] Games list for tomorrow night
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 03:44:23PM +1000, Sven@GMX wrote: On 20/09/12 10:55, Alex Fraser wrote: On 20 Sep 2012 10:17, Adam Bolte abo...@systemsaviour.com wrote: I just saw this, and won't have a chance to go back home to get my spare switch before the event. :( I'll see if we have one spare. Alex I'll bring a 100Mb/s 5-port switch but doesn't have WLAN. I'll also bring lglive which apparently only needs one computer to run on and others can join as Terminal client. There is a 24-port 100Mbit switch here on my desk at work (which is my personal property), but it's pretty big. I'm not sure I'll be able to bring it in with my gear on my bike, but will see how I go. How are we for Ethernet cables? I can bring in one or maybe two... -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] FSM- Games night
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:24:14PM +1000, Sven@GMX wrote: in regards to the games night mentioned at the last meeting, there is a live distro called lglive and comes in two flavours, one is DVD size and the other one CD size (suitable for children and older hardware). http://live.linux-gamers.net/?s=download Thanks - this is a great starting point. If it had Alien Arena Reloaded it would be even better, but that's probably not too hard to fix. I do really like the PXE-boot option, and will have to get that working. I had actually already considered the possibility of doing something like this, but suspected it would be too time-consuming to implement. Perhaps not! It would be great to know what hardware (if any) will be available on the day. Will there be desktop computers at/near the venue we will have access to? What about network infrastructure (Gigabit switches, network cables, etc.) that people can plug into? Are there any venue policies that might prevent somebody connecting a personal laptop to the same LAN as university/company infrastructure? Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] Team Free Software Melbourne at PyCon Australia
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012, 22:47:53 EST, Ben Sturmfels b...@stumbles.id.au wrote: You'll be please to know that our Sydney correspondent Matt Giuca joined Ben Finney, Ben's friend Pete and I in the Australian Python conference's codewars programming event on Friday night. Our team, named Free Software Melbourne, beat off around a dozen other teams (including many with freedom hating Macbooks hehe) to come runners up in the event. We almost took it out, but faltered in the final creative round. Congratulations to all of you. Nice job! I wonder if there are other competitions people in our free software group would be interested competing in? Cheers, Adam ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] Chipping in for an Ouya console?
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 09:44:09PM +1000, Matt Giuca wrote: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Ben Sturmfels b...@stumbles.id.au wrote: I see they've already raised $8M in pre-sales though, so perhaps there are other free software organisations that would benefit more from a donation right now. I'm thinking instead of buying a video card from Think Penguin [3]. Also the Kickstarter for Ouya is over ... I pledged for one, so if it all goes well, I'll let you guys know how it is. I pre-ordered one over the weekend also. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] Weekend activities
WRT free software 3D shooters, Alien Arena Reloaded came out a few days ago. http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/07/18/153218/cowboyneal-reviews-alien-arena-reloaded On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:40:31PM +1000, Adam Bolte wrote: I would be up for a LAN gaming session. 3D shooters are my speciality ;) Well then, we'll have to see about that. ;) I think polishing free software for non-devs is also a great idea. Awesome. If this is to go ahead, perhaps as a first step we could organise a list of ideas in advance for projects to look at, in case anybody arrives that's short on ideas. Maybe a wiki page? -Adam On 22/06/12 16:50, Adam Bolte wrote: Hey all, It came up today at dinner that possibly some people might be interested in getting together for activities that are not strictly about discussing free software. Some ideas I have (off the top of my head) are: * LAN gaming using free software (eg, Nexuiz, Frozen Bubble, BoW). I'm always up for that. Sounds like an idea.. Include a few games that are laptop friendly though.. B4W/BfW is good idea. Sounds good, and looks like there's some interest. My laptop's nothing powerful either - an E-350 APU with the free drivers. * Polishing free software for non-devs (performing usability studies, finding and submitting bugs, writing/improving/translating documentation and wiki pages, etc.). I'm up for collaborating on some code. I've been writing an MQTT to web gateway in python for a project. It works but ugly in places. For venue, what about leveraging off the LUV Beginners workshop.. /me is prepared to duck Heh. I won't object to the idea, as I have nothing better to offer - assuming LUV agrees. Thanks. ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] Android Jelly Bean and DRM
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:22:01AM +1000, Brian May wrote: From http://android-developers.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/introducing-android-41-jelly-bean.html : App encryption: From Jelly Bean and forward, paid apps in Google Play are encrypted with a device-specific key before they are delivered and stored on the device. We know you work hard building your apps. We work hard to protect your investment. Smells and tastes suspiciously like DRM to me... My understanding is that Google Play is a proprietary app which is also heavily restricted in terms of the way the license allows distribution, so if Google has been planning a DRM scheme it would explain why. All the more reason to get behind F-Droid. The two Android devices I own (whilst not 100% free due to driver issues) run CyanogenMod with F-Droid and have never had Google Play installed. I didn't even know until recently that Marketplace had been renamed to Play. -Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
[free-software-melb] Weekend activities
Hey all, It came up today at dinner that possibly some people might be interested in getting together for activities that are not strictly about discussing free software. Some ideas I have (off the top of my head) are: * Basic game development. I remember at a previous Software Freedom day there was a presentation somebody gave about all the mini-games he had made with Pygame, and it looked a lot of fun. We could compete individually or work as a team (some people on graphics, some on code, some recording sound effects and sourcing/creating music, etc.). FYI, I'm a Python newbie but I have messed around with the Pygame examples a little. I also suck at graphics but don't mind trying. :) * Creating some kind of short regular Free Software webcast or some such where we could record technical presentations on things like How to run SaaS without giving up your freedom (eg. a quick ownCloud tutorial/preview) and/or news items such as What's new in the world of free software?. Think of something along the lines of the Linux Action Show, albeit shorter, and focusing on free software as opposed to Linux and without all the RMS hate. * LAN gaming using free software (eg, Nexuiz, Frozen Bubble, BoW). I'm always up for that. * Polishing free software for non-devs (performing usability studies, finding and submitting bugs, writing/improving/translating documentation and wiki pages, etc.). * Android application development. eg. We've discussed improvements that need to be made to F-Droid at previous meetings, so maybe we can work towards identifying and adding more free software that currently only exists in the Android Marketplace or Play or whatever they call it these days. I imagine these kinds of activities might work best on a Saturday/Sunday afternoon or something when there's more time, and people can stick around for as long or as little as they want. I have no ideas for a venue at this time. Is there any interest out there in any of the above, or does anyone have any other suggestions? Cheers, Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] [Australia-public-discuss] Video/audio from patents talk and committee hearing
Ah, I see. But then I don't really agree with the logic. I agree that there aren't really any free software companies that support software patents. But they aren't the ones who will be opposing this -- it will be the proprietary software companies who don't want free software companies to have an edge on them. Understood. However then the policy makers would need to make a concious decision - do I hurt small businesses and take away the rights of individuals working in the public interest to aide big business? If the government has any morals, they won't. It should be an easy win. But you're right - we absolutely cannot count on it. :) I still think it's an easier argument. If this is that difficult, abolishing software patents entirely would seem almost impossible. Yet we have hope for that (as we should). The argument could be made (and I don't, of course, agree with it, just playing Devil's Advocate): Patent law is to encourage innovation. Innovation costs money. Right there. We can clearly prove that innovation does not cost money, with countless examples. How much money did Vim cost to make? This also implies that patents can only hurt free software, since it is frequently at a clear disadvantage. Perhaps it is corporations with their patents that are holding back innovation - the ability to improve upon an idea or to interoperate with software to perform an innovative function. I absolutely believe is often the case. We invest money in research under the condition that we can make money from our invention, without competition, for 20 years. Haha. Yeah. Don't make me cry. :) We cannot allow these hobbyists to rip off our ideas and then compete with us at zero cost. That will mean we have no incentive to invest money in further research. From the ABC website: http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s1097642.htm The cost of an Australian standard patent including attorney fees is usually between $5000-$8000. Annual maintenance fees are payable from its fifth year. Over a 20-year term these will add a further $8,000 to the cost. So if a company can afford to buy patents, they can likely also afford more developers. Would they argue that a few developers (potentially non-free, working in their spare time as a hobby) is serious competition for them? Then, add in the argument that free software is not just hobbyists, but also includes commercial competitors (like Android). You basically have the full strength argument for why the patent system is needed in the first place. How much money does Google make from Android? Actually, I read that Microsoft makes the most money from it. From patents. :) Sorry. Not buying your argument. I am sure they will not see any distinction between commercial entities using free software licenses and commercial entities producing proprietary software. One important different (not necessarily for us, but for policy makers) is that the software typically isn't being 'sold' if it's free software. It's only serving to help sell something else, if it's selling anything at all. It's in the public interest as it provides essential freedoms for all, whereas proprietary software only benefits one company (or occasionally one person) financially. Those are some pretty big distinctions IMO. Any argument against the patent system can be applied equally to free or proprietary software. That's what I've been trying to show my disagreement over. I don't think we can convince each other easily. :) It doesn't make sense in my mind to say patents should not apply to free software, any more than it would make sense to say parking meters should not apply to cars that have been custom built by the driver. Either you think parking meters are a good thing and should apply to anyone who parks in a spot, or you think parking meters are bad and everyone should be able to park for free. It has nothing to do with the conditions under which the car was built. Still not looking at the big picture. Parking meters don't apply to bicycles. Why not? Bicycles are vehicles too. But they don't have a huge up-front expense and are easily obtainable by all - including kids. Because the barrier to entry is so low, and the value they provide (being safer, and the only common vehicle allowed on the road that's available to non-adults), it doesn't make sense to put parking meters at bike stands. If I make a computer program and release it as free software, it doesn't make sense for the patent system to apply to me because I can't afford time/money to start a company and patent things. That too would be crazy. If making an analogy to software patents, I'd say you have a parking meter at every public bike rack, and we're the ones arguing that this isn't fair - some people can't afford to use them. Then you have car owners saying hell no, we're paying taxes and we're all driving vehicles here - they need that meter. :) That's the closest analogy I can
Re: [free-software-melb] [Australia-public-discuss] Excluding free software from patentability
On 12/02/12 21:32, Bianca Gibson wrote: Rather than going off guesswork I think the proportion of people interested in ending software patents that have a soft spot for FS would need to be investigated before any action was taken based on it. How do we know it's not just the active and visible people, and the ones we happen to meet? My understanding is that we're *already* going off guesswork. We're guessing that going against software patents completely is a better approach to any of the alternatives, without having consulted with any legal experts. Unless things have changed since LCA? I'm not saying you don't make a good point, but getting an accurate figure first may prove difficult. For example, if we said to people in order to abolish software patents entirely, after talking to legal experts we have concluded that abolishing patents from free software is the most appropriate first step, I think people would be more likely to get on board than if we just let people assume that we only care about the effects of software patents on free software. So IMO, we first need that confidence in which should be the better approach to attacking software patents, so we can be transparent with our supporters before we go chasing statistics. Besides, it could very well turn out that the approach we are already taking (abolish them all in one swoop) is best and then we'd have wasted the time and effort it takes to organise a large scale survey. Regards, Adam ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
Re: [free-software-melb] [Australia-public-discuss] Excluding free software from patentability
On 12/02/12 14:42, Ben Sturmfels wrote: On 12/02/12 12:05, Matt Giuca wrote: I thought that there was a really great idea from a commenter at the end of your talk whereby free software would be considered by law 'in the public interest' and becomes except from applying to patent lawsuits at all. Not only would this meet our goals of being able to write and use free software without consequence, but it would also encourage businesses to publish free software to protect their efforts. I like it. I share Ciarán's objections to this idea, but I thought I'd add some points of my own. ...I find it troubling when people suggest special rules for free software. For example, at a recent talk, someone asked Richard Stallman: if you want shorter (5 year) copyright terms, wouldn't that mean that all GPL'd software would go into the public domain after 5 years and it could then legally be used in proprietary software. And his answer was that there would have to be a special exception for free software so that the copyright term lasted longer. Sorry, Richard. I like the GPL and what you've done, but it seems hypocritical to ask for everybody else's copyright to expire but let us keep ours because it suits our interests. Free software is in everybody's interest, whereas normally copyright only works in the interest of an individual or company. I haven't heard RMS make such a statement before, however I disagree the two are comparable. Patents are a plague on the entire software industry. They are bad for free software. They are bad for proprietary software. Patent reform therefore needs to be industry-wide. We can't make this a free vs proprietary issue, because it's bigger than that. It's bigger than the issue of whether source code is available and whether you are free to modify it -- this is a fundamental issue of being allowed to write any software you can imagine, and I want the right to be able to do that whether I am releasing my source code or not. Matt's last paragraph is excellent and I agree heartily that patent reform is needed for the entire software industry. There's no disagreement from me that it's a problem for the entire industry. However, there is plenty of speculation that it's going to be very difficult to completely abolish software patents, and that we should aim our sights lower. I don't really agree with this view, however I'm no expert and maybe we really do need to consider looking at this from another angle. At the moment, all I've heard is that if we go down this path, we would need to try to convince politicians that a number of changes (2 at minimum) need to be made to software patent law. Maybe it's easier to just get one change through instead? Ben, you said you are applying the 'Divide and Conquer' approach to patents (since patents are probably also a real problem in other industries). If software patents as a whole is too large a chunk, perhaps dividing out free software as the first step will be easier? I don't know the statistics, however I'd expect the majority of people interested in ending software patents also have a soft spot for free software. With free software patents out of the picture, most probably one could expect that attacking the remaining software patent issues would then be easier. I could imagine software companies eventually turning around to complain that free software is too competitive and they need to be exempt from patents, and we would have proven that changing the patent system is possible, so maybe we would get even more support. Then there's the additional reasons I mentioned before. So Matt, such a first step wouldn't necessarily be in the best interests of the proprietary software industry - true. I'm definitely not saying we forget about abolishing software patents entirely, but just suggesting we fight smaller easier battles at a time in a way that might make the entire war more conclude more quickly. I personally would rather have patents become less and less of a problem over 10 years, over having them wreak Hell on everyone for 10 years until they are abolished all in one hit. But like I said, I'm no expert on what the best approach is. Ben said he wasn't either, and I'm not sure if it's something that's been seriously considered yet. Endowing a benefit to free software by excluding it from patentability in no way transforms the BSD into the GPL. Sure if you use BSD-licensed code in a proprietary program you wouldn't receive the proposed patent exclusion benefit. That was my thinking too. If people want to take BSD code and make it non-free, they would just take on the patent risk no differently than they already do - at least for as long as software patents exist (which I agree, won't be forever if we keep up the fight). Regards, Adam ___ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
