[FRIAM] go far beyond anything that our history gives us the capability to conceive... Ben Goertzel at Future of MInd Symposium at The New School NYC: Rich Murray 2016.12.01

[Rich Murray]

go far beyond anything that our history gives us the capability to
conceive... Ben Goertzel at Future of MInd Symposium at The New School NYC:
Rich Murray 2016.12.01
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2016/12/go-far-beyond-anything-that-our-history.html


ready for Finder's Course... ready for us in Explorer's Course...

finderscourse.com


http://phys.org/news/2016-12-day-ideas-future-mind-illuminates.htm

One day, many ideas: Future of Mind 2016 illuminates NYC (Part 1)

December 1, 2016 by Stuart Mason Dambrot

(Phys.org) — The shape that human cognition may take over the coming next
half-century has become increasingly difficult to foresee.
Moreover, accelerating advances in science, mathematics, computing, and
culture –
including Artificial General Intelligence, Machine Consciousness, Synthetic
Creativity, Mind Uploading, Exocortical Cognition, and other ever-more
exotic ideas –
have dramatically transformed the very conception of what we refer to as
mind.

Following the Human Level AI Conference 2016, and sponsored by Humanity+
and The New School, the one-day Future of Mind Symposium 2016 held at The
New School in New York City –
moderated by Dr. Ben Goertzel (Humanity+) and Prof. Ed Keller (The New
School) –
delved into this brave new space through interactive dialogs between expert
panelists and audience members.

The conference began with introductory remarks from the moderators, during
which Goertzel said
"One thing I've gotten more and more respect for as I've done more things,
learned more things and explored more possibilities is how completely
ignorant we are about the real nature of mind and of reality…. I've become
more and more convinced that as we build intelligent engineered systems, as
we upgrade our brains with technology, as we become more and more networked
together on the planet between human beings, synthetic biological systems,
engineered computing and communication systems – as all this advances we're
going to understand that mind and intelligence and the self-organization of
matter go far beyond anything that our history gives us the capability to
conceive."

In the first Morning Session panel, Cosmo Harrigan, Natasha Vita-More, Amy
Li, and (by videolink] Peter Watts discussed The Future of the Individual:
AGIs, Cyborgs, Uploads, and… in which they addressed the "epistemological
horizons of the individual and collective mind, and rethinking the ethics
and politics of mind beyond individual or gender."

Harrigan – a cross-disciplinary internet entrepreneur and researcher in
deep reinforcement learning – reviewed what he described as "a rich variety
of methods" that could lead to human-analogous Artificial General
Intelligence, including traditional symbolic systems based on logic and
reasoning; biologically-inspired systems; and those that start with a
mathematical formalism and work towards approximating a universal
intelligence.

Founder of Dance4Healing and a partner for Stanford Cancer Supportive Care
Program, Li is leading the trend of telehealth into physical rehabilitation
space. Rooted in neuroscience, Dance4Healing is a social platform
connecting dance teachers to patients, using artificial intelligence and
behavior design to recommend personalized music and dance, dance buddies
and patient groups based on real-time emotion and health data, alleviating
mental and physical pain, and improving quality of life – including a
profoundly beneficial effect on cancer, dementia and other serious health
problems.

Vita-More, Chair of Humanity+, Program Champion of Graduate Studies at the
University of Advancing Technology, and author in the areas of humanity's
future, emerging technologies, and radical life extension – and whose
breakthrough research demonstrated post-vitrification (that is, after
exiting a state in which living cells are cooled to cryogenic temperatures
without using ice) memory recovery in C. elegans – stressed the importance
of being involved in legislation because, she noted, it defines "the rules
that govern us and sets the stage for our future."

Watts, a biologist and award-winning science fiction author – whose novel
Blindsight has become a core text in diverse undergraduate courses ranging
from philosophy to neuropsych, and is said to have found its way into
neuroscience laboratories – presented an unsurprisingly iconoclastic
neuroscience-based view of on consciousness focused on the brain's
self-organizing, self-directed learning capabilities.
"The brain is really good at reconfiguring itself….It doesn't really matter
whether or not you crack the secret of consciousness, it doesn't matter if
you can precisely mimic the corpus callosum" – a 10 cm-long flat bundle of
nerve fibers that connects the brain's right and left hemispheres.
"To paraphrase Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, our brains will find a way.
Give them an interface, and chances are they'll figure it out on their own."

During the panel discussion, a contested topic was whether or not an AGI
could, 

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Vladimyr Burachynsky]

To the Congregation,

Canada has recently thrown out a crony conservative party replaced by a 
supposedly more moderate liberal party.
But very recently we have become alarmed by their behavior, they presume to be 
speaking on the constituents behalf.
We ask where those ideas came from in stunned disbelief, only to here it is the 
overwhelming consensus.
Since when did consensus have so many interpretations?
This has been puzzling, and seems to forecast what Trump's legions are expected 
to do.
How on earth could a  Canadian Liberal Party accidentally have the same 
behavior as 
an American Right Wing Republican party. In both cases they are mistaking their 
own voices for that of the public's voice.

This does not appear to be a political issue any longer but rather a 
coincidence of narcissistic psychopathy. In some sense even the democrats 
may have been entranced by their own voices.  There have now been numerous 
insinuations that people are living in an information bubble
dispensing  appealing nonsense and outright lies. This is not typical for 
either country and I suspect the British are doing the same.

All three countries are moving along parallel vectors. And the pundits have 
different and unique explanations for each country. 
And they never happen to listen to eachother.
I suspect we are entering an era of failed or limping democracies for the want 
of reality checks.
Now the French seem to be cooking up something bitter. Are we all going mad 
after so much optimistic delusionary deceit.
British citizens are also demanding jail time for Tony Blair.

It is much more than one country's peculiar problem or so methinks.
From my point of view it did seem like it would not have made much difference 
whichever candidate had won
in any of our countries.
Perhaps these elites all share an aversion to reality.  Such as stage 
performers who despise theatre critics.
vib

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ?glen?
Sent: December-01-16 1:28 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette


Well, sure.  But, speaking for myself, I see plenty of snobbish, aloof, and 
patronizing expression in the speech and action of people like Richard Spencer 
and Mencius Moldbug (Curtis Yarvin) -- and the intellectuals they tend to fawn 
over.  Hell, Ayn Rand has a huge dose of it, too.  To go even further, hang out 
amongst any elite group for awhile, and you'll notice how they treat "noobs".  
While most domains (e.g. martial arts or programming, say) have a nice dose of 
mentors and teachers, who treat novices earnestly, there's _always_ a large 
contingent of the elite in that domain that treat novices the same way you're 
describing.

So what?  Being a novice in any domain is difficult.  But you don't run around 
complaining about how snobbish the elite swimmers are.  You swim!  You improve. 
 Then when you become competitive, you haze the novices just like you were 
hazed.

Conservatives who yap about "liberal elitism" are just expressing their 
_entitlement_.  They want you to take them seriously even though they haven't 
put in any effort.  They want a trophy just for showing up.


On 12/01/2016 11:12 AM, Eric Charles wrote:
> The style matters. Oddly quite a bit. "Liberal elitism" is snobbish, aloof, 
> and patronizing. Note, it is not the way in which they are "elite", but the 
> "elitism" that rankles the most. Trump's financial-elite bull-in-a-china-shop 
> schtick looks and feels very different, and there are many people who would 
> much rather deal with it. Bill Clinton was a friggin' Rhodes scholar, but 
> connected with everyday Americans, and wasn't, until he sought to get so 
> aggressively dynastic, at risk of the "liberal elite" label. I've not heard 
> it leveled at Carter either. On the other hand, Gore and Kerry reeked of it, 
> and that was part of their problem.
> 
> As the article says towards the end:
> " “High information” people ignore evidence if it conflicts with their 
> preferred narrative /all the time./ And while it may be naïve for voters to 
> believe the promises of Trump and the Brexit campaigners — it has also been 
> profoundly naïve for the cosmopolitan classes to believe that years of forced 
> internationalism and forced political correctness were never going to end 
> with a large scale backlash."


--
␦glen?


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe 
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Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Merle Lefkoff]

The ruling classes were just plain tone-deaf.  Our bad.

I'm a post-capitalist revolutionary Canadian College professor and activist
working hard to prevent this country from slipping further into economic
oligarchy, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump will surprise us in
some nifty ways because he's just dumb enough to accidentally,
occasionally, do the right thing.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Pamela McCorduck  wrote:

> I found the article just silly. Yes, the comparison between Thinking Fast
> and Thinking Slow is apt. Maybe we should call the Trumpists “trigger
> finger voters” and the Clinton voters, “think before you pull the trigger”
> voters.
>
> Also apt, to this student (and survivor) of WW II are the parallels
> between what Trump has said, and what the rising Hitler said, and how their
> followers behaved as a consequence. I took particular issue with “the
> ripping of the social fabric by immigration”—especially since my family and
> I, and my husband and his family, were immigrants.
>
> A visit to the Jerusalem show at the Metropolitan Museum of Art tells you
> how Jerusalem at its height (1100-1500) was one of the great cities of the
> world, because it was deeply and widely multicultural (yes, the three major
> religions, but dozens of sects in each of them). Shut down the immigrants
> and the merchants go away. Drive the merchants away and the place begins to
> decline.
>
> Am I elite? You bet. I worked my ass off in college—I put myself through a
> first-rate university, worked in a low-paying clerical job for a few more
> years (because that was the only job path open to women, no matter how well
> educated they were), then went to an Ivy graduate school. I earned my elite
> status, and I was very lucky in the bargain.
>
> I vote for school bonds that no children of mine will ever need, because I
> think it’s for the greater good. I pay extra taxes to support Medicare, and
> I do it willingly, though I would much rather see not a reform of Medicare,
> but a reform of the entire medical system.
>
> But hey, we have a real-time experiment coming up. Let’s just see how much
> better the country is under a Trump executive and a Republican Congress.
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Eric Charles 
> wrote:
>
> Glen,
> The style matters. Oddly quite a bit. "Liberal elitism" is snobbish,
> aloof, and patronizing. Note, it is not the way in which they are "elite",
> but the "elitism" that rankles the most. Trump's financial-elite 
> bull-in-a-china-shop
> schtick looks and feels very different, and there are many people who would
> much rather deal with it. Bill Clinton was a friggin' Rhodes scholar, but
> connected with everyday Americans, and wasn't, until he sought to get so
> aggressively dynastic, at risk of the "liberal elite" label. I've not heard
> it leveled at Carter either. On the other hand, Gore and Kerry reeked of
> it, and that was part of their problem.
>
> As the article says towards the end:
> " “High information” people ignore evidence if it conflicts with their
> preferred narrative *all the time.* And while it may be naïve for voters
> to believe the promises of Trump and the Brexit campaigners — it has also
> been profoundly naïve for the cosmopolitan classes to believe that years of
> forced internationalism and forced political correctness were never going
> to end with a large scale backlash."
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> Supervisory Survey Statistician
> U.S. Marine Corps
> 
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 1:22 PM, ┣glen┫  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 12/01/2016 10:11 AM, cody dooderson wrote:
>> > Sorry, but I found the first article very disturbing. It seems like an
>> opinion piece that might have come out during the rise of the Nazi party.
>> It blames the 'parasitic educated' class, praises the virtues of the
>> military service, and argues in favor racial segregation.
>> > My very shallow reading on the rise of the Nazi party led me to believe
>> that they had a very similar platform.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> On a slight tangent:  I'm still confused about why so many feel compelled
>> to prefix "elite" with "liberal".  If this were really about anti-elitism,
>> we'd see just as much silly spewage toward buffoons like Trump (who just
>> knows better -- trust him -- he's the only one who can make america great
>> again).  Despite my confusion, I'm inclined to believe it's because only
>> really lazy people yap incoherently about "elitism."  The rest of us work
>> our butts off to specialize ... elite machinists, elite cowboys, elite bow
>> hunters, elite beer drinkers ...  I am an elite.  But I'm not a liberal.
>> So, the bias(es) inherent in articles like this are blatantly obvious.
>>
>>
>> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Owen Densmore > > wrote:
>> >
>> > I love it. The Elites are getting hammered. Snobocracy is now so
>> visible that it can be attacked for what it really is.
>> > ​​
>> > http://quillette.c

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Pamela McCorduck]

I found the article just silly. Yes, the comparison between Thinking Fast and 
Thinking Slow is apt. Maybe we should call the Trumpists “trigger finger 
voters” and the Clinton voters, “think before you pull the trigger” voters. 

Also apt, to this student (and survivor) of WW II are the parallels between 
what Trump has said, and what the rising Hitler said, and how their followers 
behaved as a consequence. I took particular issue with “the ripping of the 
social fabric by immigration”—especially since my family and I, and my husband 
and his family, were immigrants.

A visit to the Jerusalem show at the Metropolitan Museum of Art tells you how 
Jerusalem at its height (1100-1500) was one of the great cities of the world, 
because it was deeply and widely multicultural (yes, the three major religions, 
but dozens of sects in each of them). Shut down the immigrants and the 
merchants go away. Drive the merchants away and the place begins to decline.

Am I elite? You bet. I worked my ass off in college—I put myself through a 
first-rate university, worked in a low-paying clerical job for a few more years 
(because that was the only job path open to women, no matter how well educated 
they were), then went to an Ivy graduate school. I earned my elite status, and 
I was very lucky in the bargain. 

I vote for school bonds that no children of mine will ever need, because I 
think it’s for the greater good. I pay extra taxes to support Medicare, and I 
do it willingly, though I would much rather see not a reform of Medicare, but a 
reform of the entire medical system.

But hey, we have a real-time experiment coming up. Let’s just see how much 
better the country is under a Trump executive and a Republican Congress. 




> On Dec 1, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Eric Charles  
> wrote:
> 
> Glen,
> The style matters. Oddly quite a bit. "Liberal elitism" is snobbish, aloof, 
> and patronizing. Note, it is not the way in which they are "elite", but the 
> "elitism" that rankles the most. Trump's financial-elite bull-in-a-china-shop 
> schtick looks and feels very different, and there are many people who would 
> much rather deal with it. Bill Clinton was a friggin' Rhodes scholar, but 
> connected with everyday Americans, and wasn't, until he sought to get so 
> aggressively dynastic, at risk of the "liberal elite" label. I've not heard 
> it leveled at Carter either. On the other hand, Gore and Kerry reeked of it, 
> and that was part of their problem.
> 
> As the article says towards the end:
> " “High information” people ignore evidence if it conflicts with their 
> preferred narrative all the time. And while it may be naïve for voters to 
> believe the promises of Trump and the Brexit campaigners — it has also been 
> profoundly naïve for the cosmopolitan classes to believe that years of forced 
> internationalism and forced political correctness were never going to end 
> with a large scale backlash."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
> Supervisory Survey Statistician
> U.S. Marine Corps
>  
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 1:22 PM, ┣glen┫  > wrote:
> 
> On 12/01/2016 10:11 AM, cody dooderson wrote:
> > Sorry, but I found the first article very disturbing. It seems like an 
> > opinion piece that might have come out during the rise of the Nazi party. 
> > It blames the 'parasitic educated' class, praises the virtues of the 
> > military service, and argues in favor racial segregation.
> > My very shallow reading on the rise of the Nazi party led me to believe 
> > that they had a very similar platform.
> 
> +1
> 
> On a slight tangent:  I'm still confused about why so many feel compelled to 
> prefix "elite" with "liberal".  If this were really about anti-elitism, we'd 
> see just as much silly spewage toward buffoons like Trump (who just knows 
> better -- trust him -- he's the only one who can make america great again).  
> Despite my confusion, I'm inclined to believe it's because only really lazy 
> people yap incoherently about "elitism."  The rest of us work our butts off 
> to specialize ... elite machinists, elite cowboys, elite bow hunters, elite 
> beer drinkers ...  I am an elite.  But I'm not a liberal.  So, the bias(es) 
> inherent in articles like this are blatantly obvious.
> 
> 
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Owen Densmore  >   > >> wrote:
> >
> > I love it. The Elites are getting hammered. Snobocracy is now so 
> > visible that it can be attacked for what it really is.
> > ​​
> > 
> > http://quillette.com/2016/11/30/stop-calling-people-low-information-voters/ 
> > 
> >  
> >  >  
> > >
> >
> > ​Thi

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[┣glen┫]

Well, sure.  But, speaking for myself, I see plenty of snobbish, aloof, and 
patronizing expression in the speech and action of people like Richard Spencer 
and Mencius Moldbug (Curtis Yarvin) -- and the intellectuals they tend to fawn 
over.  Hell, Ayn Rand has a huge dose of it, too.  To go even further, hang out 
amongst any elite group for awhile, and you'll notice how they treat "noobs".  
While most domains (e.g. martial arts or programming, say) have a nice dose of 
mentors and teachers, who treat novices earnestly, there's _always_ a large 
contingent of the elite in that domain that treat novices the same way you're 
describing.

So what?  Being a novice in any domain is difficult.  But you don't run around 
complaining about how snobbish the elite swimmers are.  You swim!  You improve. 
 Then when you become competitive, you haze the novices just like you were 
hazed.

Conservatives who yap about "liberal elitism" are just expressing their 
_entitlement_.  They want you to take them seriously even though they haven't 
put in any effort.  They want a trophy just for showing up.


On 12/01/2016 11:12 AM, Eric Charles wrote:
> The style matters. Oddly quite a bit. "Liberal elitism" is snobbish, aloof, 
> and patronizing. Note, it is not the way in which they are "elite", but the 
> "elitism" that rankles the most. Trump's financial-elite bull-in-a-china-shop 
> schtick looks and feels very different, and there are many people who would 
> much rather deal with it. Bill Clinton was a friggin' Rhodes scholar, but 
> connected with everyday Americans, and wasn't, until he sought to get so 
> aggressively dynastic, at risk of the "liberal elite" label. I've not heard 
> it leveled at Carter either. On the other hand, Gore and Kerry reeked of it, 
> and that was part of their problem.
> 
> As the article says towards the end:
> " “High information” people ignore evidence if it conflicts with their 
> preferred narrative /all the time./ And while it may be naïve for voters to 
> believe the promises of Trump and the Brexit campaigners — it has also been 
> profoundly naïve for the cosmopolitan classes to believe that years of forced 
> internationalism and forced political correctness were never going to end 
> with a large scale backlash."


-- 
␦glen?


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Marcus Daniels]

“High information” people ignore evidence if it conflicts with their preferred 
narrative all the time.

Sometimes evidence is wrong or misinterpreted – sometimes a theory is needed to 
put evidence into context.  That’s not ignoring evidence, that’s seeking even 
more information and a better framework to understand it.Of course, I can 
just respond to an assertion with another..

And that there could be a backlash to internationalization doesn’t mean it is 
rational, just that someone seeking to advance an open economy should have been 
aware it was a political risk and prepared better to avoid it.

Marcus

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[┣glen┫]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying.  But we have to be careful with our 
demographics.  I would bet that most of the people who voted for Trump _have_ 
their basic needs met!  Granted, they may be worried about whether they _will_ 
have their basic needs met in the near or far future.  But for now, their needs 
are met.

Of course, Maslow's also talks about climbing the pyramid towards 
self-actualization.  Those with their basic needs met are more powerful and 
more capable of going to the next level.  If those who voted for Trump see the 
huddled masses as an obstacle to their rise to the next level in the pyramid, 
they will do everything they can to stomp on the heads of said huddled masses 
in order to move up the hierarchy.

On 12/01/2016 10:58 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> -America's maslow is fucked.  If you don't the maslow system: food housing 
> basics MUST be consisantly meatable before ANYTHING else can get done. Zyg 
> Zigler(sp)  proposed when someones needs are not met, they snap. So this 
> election was a knee jerk about a whole bunch of people who felt powerless to 
> get there basics met.


-- 
␦glen?


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Eric Charles]

Glen,
The style matters. Oddly quite a bit. "Liberal elitism" is snobbish, aloof,
and patronizing. Note, it is not the way in which they are "elite", but the
"elitism" that rankles the most. Trump's
financial-elite bull-in-a-china-shop schtick looks and feels very
different, and there are many people who would much rather deal with it.
Bill Clinton was a friggin' Rhodes scholar, but connected with everyday
Americans, and wasn't, until he sought to get so aggressively dynastic, at
risk of the "liberal elite" label. I've not heard it leveled at Carter
either. On the other hand, Gore and Kerry reeked of it, and that was part
of their problem.

As the article says towards the end:
" “High information” people ignore evidence if it conflicts with their
preferred narrative *all the time.* And while it may be naïve for voters to
believe the promises of Trump and the Brexit campaigners — it has also been
profoundly naïve for the cosmopolitan classes to believe that years of
forced internationalism and forced political correctness were never going
to end with a large scale backlash."




---
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician
U.S. Marine Corps


On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 1:22 PM, ┣glen┫  wrote:

>
> On 12/01/2016 10:11 AM, cody dooderson wrote:
> > Sorry, but I found the first article very disturbing. It seems like an
> opinion piece that might have come out during the rise of the Nazi party.
> It blames the 'parasitic educated' class, praises the virtues of the
> military service, and argues in favor racial segregation.
> > My very shallow reading on the rise of the Nazi party led me to believe
> that they had a very similar platform.
>
> +1
>
> On a slight tangent:  I'm still confused about why so many feel compelled
> to prefix "elite" with "liberal".  If this were really about anti-elitism,
> we'd see just as much silly spewage toward buffoons like Trump (who just
> knows better -- trust him -- he's the only one who can make america great
> again).  Despite my confusion, I'm inclined to believe it's because only
> really lazy people yap incoherently about "elitism."  The rest of us work
> our butts off to specialize ... elite machinists, elite cowboys, elite bow
> hunters, elite beer drinkers ...  I am an elite.  But I'm not a liberal.
> So, the bias(es) inherent in articles like this are blatantly obvious.
>
>
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Owen Densmore  > wrote:
> >
> > I love it. The Elites are getting hammered. Snobocracy is now so
> visible that it can be attacked for what it really is.
> > ​​
> > http://quillette.com/2016/11/30/stop-calling-people-low-
> information-voters/  30/stop-calling-people-low-information-voters/>
> >
> > ​This was also referred to by this:
> > http://quillette.com/2016/11/14/cut-out-the-literally-
> hitler-hysteria/  hitler-hysteria/>
> >
> > ​I love a good rant! Liberal Elites lost the election. Oh, wait,
> maybe we *are* LEs?
>
>
> --
> ␦glen?
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Gillian Densmore]

My German friends who's countery to this day is still recovering from
Hitler. Those people at least outright said America has got to pull
together somehow. The best way to undermine the fear Giano, Drumpf, Fox
news, and CNN propogate is to counter it with upbeat things, and the truth.
The sooner we make it cool to go to dances and (frankly) not give a crap
about the skin tone of your dance parntner (for example) the faster you can
take power from these frankly Xenophobes.
They see someone in fancy regalia with a turbine chanting in a at least to
me super cool sounding language and SOME react with fear. I being a Zen
Buhdist that had the grew up on Skunworks with people that were clay
colored rolled their R's and told great jokes They made kick ass
programers., and skunks at least in my experience.  Some of these people in
wearing stuff that look like it's from Starwars have a ritual 3? or is it
4? times a day to go chant to their prohets, and praise their warriors. I
see Cody and Marcos not as itallian or Latina but as friends. We're gamers.
Play Pokemon Go, and perplex wedtech with out interest in it.
Back when I was a intern skunk at sun their was a kick ass guy named Baffar
(however that was spelled) . He also did some contract work with Standfords
Skunk Systems

Baffar and his SO rocked, Baffar, was a hire from Dad. He kicked ass. I
didn't care at all that he had tan, rolled his R's and lisp to his eyes and
H's. Come to think of it I didn't ask much about his coulture. As far as I
was concerned he was a friend and work colllegue.

-Stop pointing fingers (unduly) I admit to doing this as well. For one
thing WHO. CARES.  Where (some) of America's Xenophia came from.
The important thing to do now is figure out frankly fun ways to stop it..
Their is no honor it. It is not helping ANYONE.

-American's have got to admit they are doing a realy REALY bad job of
Comradery. Their are some exceptions. This list might be one.

-We need to stop saying and get out of this bullshit of oh my god it's the
Dems fault for the 99 issues. Oh it's the green, purple grey or orange
party. I've said it before. It's worth repeating again: My fucked health
care system realy, REALY doesn't give a shit what party were enough
assholes to have a pile of shit health care system.
I'm sorry someone that's a dick. Is just someone that's a giant dick.

-Voting was low this presidential election for many reasons. I'll be blunt
the system, and their for people rallied around two terrible picks: One
person is a neurotic, sociopathic, xenophic asshole. The other was polotics
as usual who's polotical ideals have failed so far. Another four years
wouldn't change one fucking thing.

-I hate to say it their's a large part of the midwest and south that see
blacks as housemades and words I'd get my ass kicked for using.  They
didn't see Obama as a man attempting to resolve at least 12 years worth of
assholery, and horribly horrible failed plans, with no infrastructure, and
a god awful education system
They saw hime as a and oh fuck how'd a  get to be president,
what're my kids gona due! What if my sone falls for that sexy  in his
class! we'll have bi-cultural kids!

-America's maslow is fucked.  If you don't the maslow system: food housing
basics MUST be consisantly meatable before ANYTHING else can get done. Zyg
Zigler(sp)  proposed when someones needs are not met, they snap. So this
election was a knee jerk about a whole bunch of people who felt powerless
to get there basics met.

-America's economy since 2005-2008 or so has been terrible every sane
measure has shown it just does not work.

-As far as I can tell America is one of the few, if not only countery that
does not actively promote comradery. Again their's exceptions.  FRIAM is
one. But those are the exceptions.  If people can't reach out to a system
for a set of saftey nets. Of course they'll snap and have blind rage at the
system. It's just a question of how they'll snap, and when.


-Do we realy need very expensive studies to show that extending basic
common sense and honor to your fellow humans is a good thing?

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 11:22 AM, ┣glen┫  wrote:

>
> On 12/01/2016 10:11 AM, cody dooderson wrote:
> > Sorry, but I found the first article very disturbing. It seems like an
> opinion piece that might have come out during the rise of the Nazi party.
> It blames the 'parasitic educated' class, praises the virtues of the
> military service, and argues in favor racial segregation.
> > My very shallow reading on the rise of the Nazi party led me to believe
> that they had a very similar platform.
>
> +1
>
> On a slight tangent:  I'm still confused about why so many feel compelled
> to prefix "elite" with "liberal".  If this were really about anti-elitism,
> we'd see just as much silly spewage toward buffoons like Trump (who just
> knows better -- trust him -- he's the only one who can make america great
> again).  Despite my confusion, I'm inclined to believe it's bec

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Marcus Daniels]

The Clinton state voters aren’t parasitic, they contribute more to the economy 
and are more productive than the Trump state voters.See my other post on 
this for the numbers.

This article I 
found fairly interesting -- various scholars debate the nature of the Democrat 
vs. Republican “moral sense”.   It seems to me the “fast thinking” is 
consistent with a heavy reliance on moral guidelines, and that deliberative 
thinking involves having less reliance on `collective memory’.  Instead, the 
use of reason and situational ethics.

Haidt argues the dimensions of morality include  fairness/reciprocity, 
harm/care, ingroup/loyalty, authority/respect and purity/sanctity and the broad 
set of features that Republican voters tend to favor.

The others after fairness are mechanisms for maintaining small group integrity 
and strong control systems.  Neoliberals really focus on fairness and the rest 
of the items are deemed redundant (but bleeding heart liberals also bring in 
the `care’ dimension).   To liberals, the others are not essential (and 
potentially disruptive) to a large, growing economy.

Trump’s team did expertly exploit and continue to exploit the latter moral 
dimensions.   The white nationalist stuff, appealing to evangelicals, deporting 
immigrants, the tweet about flag burning, bringing billionaires into the 
administration, and so on.

I like the idea of using the environment as a unifying moral principle for 
folks on the left.  That makes a lot of sense.


From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:27 AM
To: Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

I love it. The Elites are getting hammered. Snobocracy is now so visible that 
it can be attacked for what it really is.
​​
http://quillette.com/2016/11/30/stop-calling-people-low-information-voters/

​This was also referred to by this:
http://quillette.com/2016/11/14/cut-out-the-literally-hitler-hysteria/

​I love a good rant! Liberal Elites lost the election. Oh, wait, maybe we *are* 
LEs?

   -- Owen


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[┣glen┫]

On 12/01/2016 10:11 AM, cody dooderson wrote:
> Sorry, but I found the first article very disturbing. It seems like an 
> opinion piece that might have come out during the rise of the Nazi party. It 
> blames the 'parasitic educated' class, praises the virtues of the military 
> service, and argues in favor racial segregation. 
> My very shallow reading on the rise of the Nazi party led me to believe that 
> they had a very similar platform.

+1

On a slight tangent:  I'm still confused about why so many feel compelled to 
prefix "elite" with "liberal".  If this were really about anti-elitism, we'd 
see just as much silly spewage toward buffoons like Trump (who just knows 
better -- trust him -- he's the only one who can make america great again).  
Despite my confusion, I'm inclined to believe it's because only really lazy 
people yap incoherently about "elitism."  The rest of us work our butts off to 
specialize ... elite machinists, elite cowboys, elite bow hunters, elite beer 
drinkers ...  I am an elite.  But I'm not a liberal.  So, the bias(es) inherent 
in articles like this are blatantly obvious.


> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Owen Densmore  > wrote:
> 
> I love it. The Elites are getting hammered. Snobocracy is now so visible 
> that it can be attacked for what it really is.
> ​​
> 
> http://quillette.com/2016/11/30/stop-calling-people-low-information-voters/ 
> 
> 
> ​This was also referred to by this:
> 
> http://quillette.com/2016/11/14/cut-out-the-literally-hitler-hysteria/ 
> 
> 
> ​I love a good rant! Liberal Elites lost the election. Oh, wait, maybe we 
> *are* LEs?


-- 
␦glen?


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[cody dooderson]

Sorry, but I found the first article very disturbing. It seems like an
opinion piece that might have come out during the rise of the Nazi party.
It blames the 'parasitic educated' class, praises the virtues of the
military service, and argues in favor racial segregation.
My very shallow reading on the rise of the Nazi party led me to believe
that they had a very similar platform.

Cody Smith

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> I love it. The Elites are getting hammered. Snobocracy is now so visible
> that it can be attacked for what it really is.
> ​​
> http://quillette.com/2016/11/30/stop-calling-people-low-
> information-voters/
>
> ​This was also referred to by this:
> http://quillette.com/2016/11/14/cut-out-the-literally-hitler-hysteria/
>
> ​I love a good rant! Liberal Elites lost the election. Oh, wait, maybe we
> *are* LEs?
>
>-- Owen
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[FRIAM] Stop Calling People "Low Information Voters" | Quillette

[Owen Densmore]

I love it. The Elites are getting hammered. Snobocracy is now so visible
that it can be attacked for what it really is.
​​
http://quillette.com/2016/11/30/stop-calling-people-low-information-voters/

​This was also referred to by this:
http://quillette.com/2016/11/14/cut-out-the-literally-hitler-hysteria/

​I love a good rant! Liberal Elites lost the election. Oh, wait, maybe we
*are* LEs?

   -- Owen

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove