Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Treasurehunt I actually find rather difficult myself, due to the total lack of any sort of audio ambience or ability to place markers, -everything just looks the same to me. Shades I find significantly easier. I don't particularly mind handling the direction facing commands in something like shades, so long as there is something to distinguish in the different directions. beware the Grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 4:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Personally, in regards to 3D navigation, I am about the same as you Dark. I personally prefer something similar to treasure hunt; I find it easier to keep track of when each arrow does something different in regards to direction. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Actually, the first generation of 3D games such as original doom did use the left right to turn method (one reason why audio quake has those controls), and other games like tomb rader or mario 64 use the analogue stick, --- with a short left press turning the character, and a long left hold causing them to run in the correct direction. It's also worth remembering that audio 3D games are first person, while visual ones like resident evil are actually third person, ie, you see the character on the screen and the environment around him/her, which has a profound effect on the control scheme, as if everything turned with the character, you would lose the perspective of what is around them. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 5:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios I like the side-steping idea... I mean, isn't that akin to what you do in mainstream console games that are 3d? If you hold left, you don't just spin around in circles... you walk and or run in that direction. The only gae I've seen it done diferently is resident evil... and maybe the first three onimusha games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi Dark, As a game developer I find your comments and suggestions most helpful. So as I understand it as long as I design my game engine a long the GMA engine, which I am, including such features as place markers, visited here before announcements, and even try my best to give each room a name you and possably others should be able to give you enough info to go on in order to play the game right? dark wrote: Hi. As regards 3D navigation, in fact navigation in general, as I've said, i'm probably the worst person you meet, with a biological cause sinse I was born prematurely and suffered brain damage which has resulted in me having an attrocious sense of spacial coordination and balance. Frequently I'll see something or hit it with my cane, but stil walk into it becauwse my ability to judge distance is so bad. i also find rotional exercises absolutely awful. How I manage in 3D games however, is much the same way I manage in actual life, and perhaps it's a method which would help others. i physically don't even try to mentally map where I am going, or where the relation betwene places is. I simply remember landmarks and sets of directions. thus in shades of doom, if there is a T junction, I'll mark the passage I came up, and the passage I go down, then leave the other unmarked. i thus only have to remember occasions where the path forks, and where there is more than one choice of direction, --- -then mark those, and remember the choice I took. when I've finished down one passage, I retrace my steps until i find something I've not yet explored, and try that. also, i make extensive use of the navigation features, and use the various sizes of chamber as land marks, as well as the audio kews around, and (in sarah), the names of the rooms. Yes, this method is bizarre, and yes I sometimes get lost, but it does work for me quite a lot of the time. It's also how I remember routes in real life, not by remembering actual directions, but by simply memorizing lists of land marks and what I should do, eg, turn right when i get to the tactile paving, or when i can smell a certain coffee shop. the one game this uttelry fails in is monkey business, firstly because your running around all over the place looking for those bloody monkies and often end up getting lost catching them, --, secondly because the areas in the game seem far more open than in something like shades, and thirdly (and probably most importantly), i find the navigation keys in monkey business distinctly unreliable, and not great at showing the environment or highlighting objects around you. just my thoughts. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Short answer, yes, those features are what I use exhaustively. On the other hand audio maps I'm afraid I find just incomprehensible, cool though the marauders' map in Sarah was. Even coordinates I only tend to use as a general guideline to know if I'm in the middle or at the edge of a level, or as an extra land mark feature (eg, i need to explore the turning at 8-23). this is of course just the way i do things, and other people (who do not have my spacial difficulties), may do things entirely differently. Interestingly enough, I'll be having my mobility assessment with guide dogs on january the eighth, so I've been thinking about this (and explaining iot to the guide dogs service people), sinse I've often found myself at a loss with mobility officers who insist! upon using things like step counting or route mental mapping which my brain just won't cope with. i remember one awful incident when learning my way around secondary school, there was a turning I needed to make. The bloody stupid mobility officer did it with me inumerable times, counting steps and being generally stupid! I eventually asked my mum (who is also visually impared), and she instantly pointed out that four feet beyond the turning was a cattle grid, so all I neded to do to find it was go too far, reach the grid and turn back. needless to say, i called the mobility officer some very colourful names after that. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, As a game developer I find your comments and suggestions most helpful. So as I understand it as long as I design my game engine a long the GMA engine, which I am, including such features as place markers, visited here before announcements, and even try my best to give each room a name you and possably others should be able to give you enough info to go on in order to play the game right? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Interesting point about coordinates Dark. With your taste for RPG's that tend to have a lot more number crunching and stats to take in, I'd have expected you to rely pretty heavily on those. Personally I can't make numbers relate to situations in the slightest in any game, even remembering simple things like what coordinates the fires are at in MOTA is beyond me, numbers of steps or coordinates and the like just won't tie themselves to spacial considerations in my mind for some reason. I rely on audio cues or clues instead, which sometimes means going past a turning to recognise what's beyond it yup, and those combined with the navigation features of whatever game I'm playing usually serve me well. It does mean that I tend to take a much less military approach in something like GMA Tank Commander I suppose, but Mr Brain seems to prefer the free roaming feeling and there's not much I can do to persuade him otherwise. Scott On 12/26/09, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Short answer, yes, those features are what I use exhaustively. On the other hand audio maps I'm afraid I find just incomprehensible, cool though the marauders' map in Sarah was. Even coordinates I only tend to use as a general guideline to know if I'm in the middle or at the edge of a level, or as an extra land mark feature (eg, i need to explore the turning at 8-23). this is of course just the way i do things, and other people (who do not have my spacial difficulties), may do things entirely differently. Interestingly enough, I'll be having my mobility assessment with guide dogs on january the eighth, so I've been thinking about this (and explaining iot to the guide dogs service people), sinse I've often found myself at a loss with mobility officers who insist! upon using things like step counting or route mental mapping which my brain just won't cope with. i remember one awful incident when learning my way around secondary school, there was a turning I needed to make. The bloody stupid mobility officer did it with me inumerable times, counting steps and being generally stupid! I eventually asked my mum (who is also visually impared), and she instantly pointed out that four feet beyond the turning was a cattle grid, so all I neded to do to find it was go too far, reach the grid and turn back. needless to say, i called the mobility officer some very colourful names after that. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, As a game developer I find your comments and suggestions most helpful. So as I understand it as long as I design my game engine a long the GMA engine, which I am, including such features as place markers, visited here before announcements, and even try my best to give each room a name you and possably others should be able to give you enough info to go on in order to play the game right? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Well scot, for me the number crunching is always subordinate to the game and the exploration of that game, --- so working out the best weapon and stratogy in a numerical rpg system helps because I can then go more places and do more things, not just fight stronger monsters. coordinates I tend to think of in the same way. i can't really map out pathways betwene coordinates if the path winds as in shades of doom. In games with flat coordinates and no obstacles such as galaxy ranger, I do use them quite a lot, but only on a flat horizontal and vertical line usually, and I also work out weapon ranges based on coordinates. this isn't really spacial though, it's more knowing that if the enemy command center in Gma tank commander is 1000 meters away, that's how much i have to elivate my gun barrel to fire the shells. generally how much I use coordinates depends upon the game, and the more mazelike it is, the less I use them sinse mapping paths betwene different coordinates is something my brain won't cope with either. In shades, sarah or entombed I never touch the coordinates command at all. beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Interesting point about coordinates Dark. With your taste for RPG's that tend to have a lot more number crunching and stats to take in, I'd have expected you to rely pretty heavily on those. Personally I can't make numbers relate to situations in the slightest in any game, even remembering simple things like what coordinates the fires are at in MOTA is beyond me, numbers of steps or coordinates and the like just won't tie themselves to spacial considerations in my mind for some reason. I rely on audio cues or clues instead, which sometimes means going past a turning to recognise what's beyond it yup, and those combined with the navigation features of whatever game I'm playing usually serve me well. It does mean that I tend to take a much less military approach in something like GMA Tank Commander I suppose, but Mr Brain seems to prefer the free roaming feeling and there's not much I can do to persuade him otherwise. Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi Dark, Ok? Sounds like your mobility instructor was an idiot. Never once in my life has a mobility instructor told me to count steps. Quite the opposite in fact. They usually cued me into land marks, sounds, and other things I could use to assess where I was without depending on something as unreliable as counting steps. Were it my instructors they would have told me about the grill so I would know if I went too far and passed my turn off point. Sheesh. Anyway, getting back on track with games when I play Sarah or Shades of Doom I use a lot of my own mobility training while playing. There are several things I use, and they are pretty basic. First, is the audio environment itself. Today with advanced audio APIs like XAudio 2 and X3DAudio, FMOD Ex, or OpenAL it is pretty easy to program a game to use 5.1 or 7.1 3d audio environments fairly easily. Combine that with a good high quality 5.1 or 7.1 stereo sound card and a set of 5.1 3d stereo headphones and you have a pretty realistic audio sound system at your disposal. Unfortunately, lots of VI gamers haven't got the high tech equipment to get the most out of Shades of Doom or Sarah so they never quite get a true 3d audio environment which is too bad. For me I have lots of high tech gear for my games so when I'm in Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, or Sarah it sounds like I am standing there in the game. I can hear everything around me in 3d space, and I can use the sound to navigate around the level. Plus it helps to count doors, and the various machines in a game like SOD to identify which room is wich. Second, is the look ahead commands which comes in handy. If you can do a control+n and have it tell you the corridor turns left in 5 feet and makes a hard left in 15 feet you obviously can get a good idea where to go. This feature isn't that much different than seeing it as you get exactly the same information and have to make the same judgment weather to try the first corridor or go down the second one. I make lots of use of the control+n command in Shades of Doom. Finaly, I am pretty good with using coordinates to remember my location. If I want to know where I am I usually go for the coordinates key. For me that usually is enough to figure out exactly where I am, and gives me a good idea where to go next. Of course, that's only useful if I've been playing a game for a long time and walk around with a map of the level in my head. Come to think of it that is another tool I use, and helps me out alot. Having had sighte before i tend to see myself, my character anyway, in the game world and visualize the entire level in my mind. By being able to draw upon a mental picture in my mind it gives me somewhat of an edge in putting things in their correct 3d sspacial orientation to the character. Without a doubt that has to be a slight advantage when playing these sorts of games and figuring them out. Cheers! dark wrote: Short answer, yes, those features are what I use exhaustively. On the other hand audio maps I'm afraid I find just incomprehensible, cool though the marauders' map in Sarah was. Even coordinates I only tend to use as a general guideline to know if I'm in the middle or at the edge of a level, or as an extra land mark feature (eg, i need to explore the turning at 8-23). this is of course just the way i do things, and other people (who do not have my spacial difficulties), may do things entirely differently. Interestingly enough, I'll be having my mobility assessment with guide dogs on january the eighth, so I've been thinking about this (and explaining iot to the guide dogs service people), sinse I've often found myself at a loss with mobility officers who insist! upon using things like step counting or route mental mapping which my brain just won't cope with. i remember one awful incident when learning my way around secondary school, there was a turning I needed to make. The bloody stupid mobility officer did it with me inumerable times, counting steps and being generally stupid! I eventually asked my mum (who is also visually impared), and she instantly pointed out that four feet beyond the turning was a cattle grid, so all I neded to do to find it was go too far, reach the grid and turn back. needless to say, i called the mobility officer some very colourful names after that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
That sounds like my mom's former neighbor, whom I need hardly point out had never been around a blind person before meeting me. She also thought the cane would magically tell you where the doors to the store were regardless of where you parked the car. Now if it'd been something like the EVA in Shades of Doom it might have worked out that way, but let's face it. I doubt we're likely to see anything like that in the near future. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, Ok? Sounds like your mobility instructor was an idiot. Never once in my life has a mobility instructor told me to count steps. Quite the opposite in fact. They usually cued me into land marks, sounds, and other things I could use to assess where I was without depending on something as unreliable as counting steps. Were it my instructors they would have told me about the grill so I would know if I went too far and passed my turn off point. Sheesh. Anyway, getting back on track with games when I play Sarah or Shades of Doom I use a lot of my own mobility training while playing. There are several things I use, and they are pretty basic. First, is the audio environment itself. Today with advanced audio APIs like XAudio 2 and X3DAudio, FMOD Ex, or OpenAL it is pretty easy to program a game to use 5.1 or 7.1 3d audio environments fairly easily. Combine that with a good high quality 5.1 or 7.1 stereo sound card and a set of 5.1 3d stereo headphones and you have a pretty realistic audio sound system at your disposal. Unfortunately, lots of VI gamers haven't got the high tech equipment to get the most out of Shades of Doom or Sarah so they never quite get a true 3d audio environment which is too bad. For me I have lots of high tech gear for my games so when I'm in Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, or Sarah it sounds like I am standing there in the game. I can hear everything around me in 3d space, and I can use the sound to navigate around the level. Plus it helps to count doors, and the various machines in a game like SOD to identify which room is wich. Second, is the look ahead commands which comes in handy. If you can do a control+n and have it tell you the corridor turns left in 5 feet and makes a hard left in 15 feet you obviously can get a good idea where to go. This feature isn't that much different than seeing it as you get exactly the same information and have to make the same judgment weather to try the first corridor or go down the second one. I make lots of use of the control+n command in Shades of Doom. Finaly, I am pretty good with using coordinates to remember my location. If I want to know where I am I usually go for the coordinates key. For me that usually is enough to figure out exactly where I am, and gives me a good idea where to go next. Of course, that's only useful if I've been playing a game for a long time and walk around with a map of the level in my head. Come to think of it that is another tool I use, and helps me out alot. Having had sighte before i tend to see myself, my character anyway, in the game world and visualize the entire level in my mind. By being able to draw upon a mental picture in my mind it gives me somewhat of an edge in putting things in their correct 3d sspacial orientation to the character. Without a doubt that has to be a slight advantage when playing these sorts of games and figuring them out. Cheers! dark wrote: Short answer, yes, those features are what I use exhaustively. On the other hand audio maps I'm afraid I find just incomprehensible, cool though the marauders' map in Sarah was. Even coordinates I only tend to use as a general guideline to know if I'm in the middle or at the edge of a level, or as an extra land mark feature (eg, i need to explore the turning at 8-23). this is of course just the way i do things, and other people (who do not have my spacial difficulties), may do things entirely differently. Interestingly enough, I'll be having my mobility assessment with guide dogs on january the eighth, so I've been thinking about this (and explaining iot to the guide dogs service people), sinse I've often found myself at a loss with mobility officers who insist! upon using things like step counting or route mental mapping which my brain just won't cope with. i remember one awful incident when learning my way around secondary school, there was a turning I needed to make. The bloody stupid mobility officer did it with me inumerable times, counting steps and being generally stupid! I eventually asked my mum (who is also visually impared), and she instantly pointed out that four feet
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Yes mine too though my mobility instructor was worse than me laughing. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 10:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, Ok? Sounds like your mobility instructor was an idiot. Never once in my life has a mobility instructor told me to count steps. Quite the opposite in fact. They usually cued me into land marks, sounds, and other things I could use to assess where I was without depending on something as unreliable as counting steps. Were it my instructors they would have told me about the grill so I would know if I went too far and passed my turn off point. Sheesh. Anyway, getting back on track with games when I play Sarah or Shades of Doom I use a lot of my own mobility training while playing. There are several things I use, and they are pretty basic. First, is the audio environment itself. Today with advanced audio APIs like XAudio 2 and X3DAudio, FMOD Ex, or OpenAL it is pretty easy to program a game to use 5.1 or 7.1 3d audio environments fairly easily. Combine that with a good high quality 5.1 or 7.1 stereo sound card and a set of 5.1 3d stereo headphones and you have a pretty realistic audio sound system at your disposal. Unfortunately, lots of VI gamers haven't got the high tech equipment to get the most out of Shades of Doom or Sarah so they never quite get a true 3d audio environment which is too bad. For me I have lots of high tech gear for my games so when I'm in Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, or Sarah it sounds like I am standing there in the game. I can hear everything around me in 3d space, and I can use the sound to navigate around the level. Plus it helps to count doors, and the various machines in a game like SOD to identify which room is wich. Second, is the look ahead commands which comes in handy. If you can do a control+n and have it tell you the corridor turns left in 5 feet and makes a hard left in 15 feet you obviously can get a good idea where to go. This feature isn't that much different than seeing it as you get exactly the same information and have to make the same judgment weather to try the first corridor or go down the second one. I make lots of use of the control+n command in Shades of Doom. Finaly, I am pretty good with using coordinates to remember my location. If I want to know where I am I usually go for the coordinates key. For me that usually is enough to figure out exactly where I am, and gives me a good idea where to go next. Of course, that's only useful if I've been playing a game for a long time and walk around with a map of the level in my head. Come to think of it that is another tool I use, and helps me out alot. Having had sighte before i tend to see myself, my character anyway, in the game world and visualize the entire level in my mind. By being able to draw upon a mental picture in my mind it gives me somewhat of an edge in putting things in their correct 3d sspacial orientation to the character. Without a doubt that has to be a slight advantage when playing these sorts of games and figuring them out. Cheers! dark wrote: Short answer, yes, those features are what I use exhaustively. On the other hand audio maps I'm afraid I find just incomprehensible, cool though the marauders' map in Sarah was. Even coordinates I only tend to use as a general guideline to know if I'm in the middle or at the edge of a level, or as an extra land mark feature (eg, i need to explore the turning at 8-23). this is of course just the way i do things, and other people (who do not have my spacial difficulties), may do things entirely differently. Interestingly enough, I'll be having my mobility assessment with guide dogs on january the eighth, so I've been thinking about this (and explaining iot to the guide dogs service people), sinse I've often found myself at a loss with mobility officers who insist! upon using things like step counting or route mental mapping which my brain just won't cope with. i remember one awful incident when learning my way around secondary school, there was a turning I needed to make. The bloody stupid mobility officer did it with me inumerable times, counting steps and being generally stupid! I eventually asked my mum (who is also visually impared), and she instantly pointed out that four feet beyond the turning was a cattle grid, so all I neded to do to find it was go too far, reach the grid and turn back. needless to say, i called the mobility officer some very colourful names after that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Interesting...counting steps? Just walk 9234 to the store, then 23056 to the restaurant for lunch... Grin Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of mike maslo Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 11:02 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Yes mine too though my mobility instructor was worse than me laughing. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 10:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, Ok? Sounds like your mobility instructor was an idiot. Never once in my life has a mobility instructor told me to count steps. Quite the opposite in fact. They usually cued me into land marks, sounds, and other things I could use to assess where I was without depending on something as unreliable as counting steps. Were it my instructors they would have told me about the grill so I would know if I went too far and passed my turn off point. Sheesh. Anyway, getting back on track with games when I play Sarah or Shades of Doom I use a lot of my own mobility training while playing. There are several things I use, and they are pretty basic. First, is the audio environment itself. Today with advanced audio APIs like XAudio 2 and X3DAudio, FMOD Ex, or OpenAL it is pretty easy to program a game to use 5.1 or 7.1 3d audio environments fairly easily. Combine that with a good high quality 5.1 or 7.1 stereo sound card and a set of 5.1 3d stereo headphones and you have a pretty realistic audio sound system at your disposal. Unfortunately, lots of VI gamers haven't got the high tech equipment to get the most out of Shades of Doom or Sarah so they never quite get a true 3d audio environment which is too bad. For me I have lots of high tech gear for my games so when I'm in Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, or Sarah it sounds like I am standing there in the game. I can hear everything around me in 3d space, and I can use the sound to navigate around the level. Plus it helps to count doors, and the various machines in a game like SOD to identify which room is wich. Second, is the look ahead commands which comes in handy. If you can do a control+n and have it tell you the corridor turns left in 5 feet and makes a hard left in 15 feet you obviously can get a good idea where to go. This feature isn't that much different than seeing it as you get exactly the same information and have to make the same judgment weather to try the first corridor or go down the second one. I make lots of use of the control+n command in Shades of Doom. Finaly, I am pretty good with using coordinates to remember my location. If I want to know where I am I usually go for the coordinates key. For me that usually is enough to figure out exactly where I am, and gives me a good idea where to go next. Of course, that's only useful if I've been playing a game for a long time and walk around with a map of the level in my head. Come to think of it that is another tool I use, and helps me out alot. Having had sighte before i tend to see myself, my character anyway, in the game world and visualize the entire level in my mind. By being able to draw upon a mental picture in my mind it gives me somewhat of an edge in putting things in their correct 3d sspacial orientation to the character. Without a doubt that has to be a slight advantage when playing these sorts of games and figuring them out. Cheers! dark wrote: Short answer, yes, those features are what I use exhaustively. On the other hand audio maps I'm afraid I find just incomprehensible, cool though the marauders' map in Sarah was. Even coordinates I only tend to use as a general guideline to know if I'm in the middle or at the edge of a level, or as an extra land mark feature (eg, i need to explore the turning at 8-23). this is of course just the way i do things, and other people (who do not have my spacial difficulties), may do things entirely differently. Interestingly enough, I'll be having my mobility assessment with guide dogs on january the eighth, so I've been thinking about this (and explaining iot to the guide dogs service people), sinse I've often found myself at a loss with mobility officers who insist! upon using things like step counting or route mental mapping which my brain just won't cope with. i remember one awful incident when learning my way around secondary school, there was a turning I needed to make. The bloody stupid mobility officer did it with me inumerable times, counting steps and being generally stupid! I eventually asked my mum (who is also visually impared), and she instantly pointed out that four feet beyond the turning was a cattle grid
[Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi. As regards 3D navigation, in fact navigation in general, as I've said, i'm probably the worst person you meet, with a biological cause sinse I was born prematurely and suffered brain damage which has resulted in me having an attrocious sense of spacial coordination and balance. Frequently I'll see something or hit it with my cane, but stil walk into it becauwse my ability to judge distance is so bad. i also find rotional exercises absolutely awful. How I manage in 3D games however, is much the same way I manage in actual life, and perhaps it's a method which would help others. i physically don't even try to mentally map where I am going, or where the relation betwene places is. I simply remember landmarks and sets of directions. thus in shades of doom, if there is a T junction, I'll mark the passage I came up, and the passage I go down, then leave the other unmarked. i thus only have to remember occasions where the path forks, and where there is more than one choice of direction, --- -then mark those, and remember the choice I took. when I've finished down one passage, I retrace my steps until i find something I've not yet explored, and try that. also, i make extensive use of the navigation features, and use the various sizes of chamber as land marks, as well as the audio kews around, and (in sarah), the names of the rooms. Yes, this method is bizarre, and yes I sometimes get lost, but it does work for me quite a lot of the time. It's also how I remember routes in real life, not by remembering actual directions, but by simply memorizing lists of land marks and what I should do, eg, turn right when i get to the tactile paving, or when i can smell a certain coffee shop. the one game this uttelry fails in is monkey business, firstly because your running around all over the place looking for those bloody monkies and often end up getting lost catching them, --, secondly because the areas in the game seem far more open than in something like shades, and thirdly (and probably most importantly), i find the navigation keys in monkey business distinctly unreliable, and not great at showing the environment or highlighting objects around you. just my thoughts. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Personally, in regards to 3D navigation, I am about the same as you Dark. I personally prefer something similar to treasure hunt; I find it easier to keep track of when each arrow does something different in regards to direction. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 9:10 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi. As regards 3D navigation, in fact navigation in general, as I've said, i'm probably the worst person you meet, with a biological cause sinse I was born prematurely and suffered brain damage which has resulted in me having an attrocious sense of spacial coordination and balance. Frequently I'll see something or hit it with my cane, but stil walk into it becauwse my ability to judge distance is so bad. i also find rotional exercises absolutely awful. How I manage in 3D games however, is much the same way I manage in actual life, and perhaps it's a method which would help others. i physically don't even try to mentally map where I am going, or where the relation betwene places is. I simply remember landmarks and sets of directions. thus in shades of doom, if there is a T junction, I'll mark the passage I came up, and the passage I go down, then leave the other unmarked. i thus only have to remember occasions where the path forks, and where there is more than one choice of direction, --- -then mark those, and remember the choice I took. when I've finished down one passage, I retrace my steps until i find something I've not yet explored, and try that. also, i make extensive use of the navigation features, and use the various sizes of chamber as land marks, as well as the audio kews around, and (in sarah), the names of the rooms. Yes, this method is bizarre, and yes I sometimes get lost, but it does work for me quite a lot of the time. It's also how I remember routes in real life, not by remembering actual directions, but by simply memorizing lists of land marks and what I should do, eg, turn right when i get to the tactile paving, or when i can smell a certain coffee shop. the one game this uttelry fails in is monkey business, firstly because your running around all over the place looking for those bloody monkies and often end up getting lost catching them, --, secondly because the areas in the game seem far more open than in something like shades, and thirdly (and probably most importantly), i find the navigation keys in monkey business distinctly unreliable, and not great at showing the environment or highlighting objects around you. just my thoughts. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios
I like the side-steping idea... I mean, isn't that akin to what you do in mainstream console games that are 3d? If you hold left, you don't just spin around in circles... you walk and or run in that direction. The only gae I've seen it done diferently is resident evil... and maybe the first three onimusha games. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 7:10 PM Subject: [Audyssey] 3D navigation was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi. As regards 3D navigation, in fact navigation in general, as I've said, i'm probably the worst person you meet, with a biological cause sinse I was born prematurely and suffered brain damage which has resulted in me having an attrocious sense of spacial coordination and balance. Frequently I'll see something or hit it with my cane, but stil walk into it becauwse my ability to judge distance is so bad. i also find rotional exercises absolutely awful. How I manage in 3D games however, is much the same way I manage in actual life, and perhaps it's a method which would help others. i physically don't even try to mentally map where I am going, or where the relation betwene places is. I simply remember landmarks and sets of directions. thus in shades of doom, if there is a T junction, I'll mark the passage I came up, and the passage I go down, then leave the other unmarked. i thus only have to remember occasions where the path forks, and where there is more than one choice of direction, --- -then mark those, and remember the choice I took. when I've finished down one passage, I retrace my steps until i find something I've not yet explored, and try that. also, i make extensive use of the navigation features, and use the various sizes of chamber as land marks, as well as the audio kews around, and (in sarah), the names of the rooms. Yes, this method is bizarre, and yes I sometimes get lost, but it does work for me quite a lot of the time. It's also how I remember routes in real life, not by remembering actual directions, but by simply memorizing lists of land marks and what I should do, eg, turn right when i get to the tactile paving, or when i can smell a certain coffee shop. the one game this uttelry fails in is monkey business, firstly because your running around all over the place looking for those bloody monkies and often end up getting lost catching them, --, secondly because the areas in the game seem far more open than in something like shades, and thirdly (and probably most importantly), i find the navigation keys in monkey business distinctly unreliable, and not great at showing the environment or highlighting objects around you. just my thoughts. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
