subject:"\[Audyssey\] using dosbox"

Well tom I don't care for silverlite myself.
I am working on one user on my network who's system will not play 
silverlite streams on ie  or chrome for his payed for online 
streaming subscription called quickflix which is like netflix is in the us.
Its all loaded, everything works but on my end in firefox and on all 
brousers in his system it refuses to even work!

Everything else does and to be honest silverlite and me are not on good terms.
I am actually sure that the issue is in fact not silverlite but in 
fact something to do with his connection but to be honest, I havn't 
been able to touch it though I did do some extensive work in the weekend.

So I think silverlite should take a hike out of my life quickly.
I need to now undo the dammage I have done to that system while fixing it.
and I have not managed to get it sorted.

At 04:05 a.m. 13/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Michael,

Your story about Silver Light wasn't in doubt. I know of several
people with the same sort of story, and unfortunately for the moment
that sort of thing is what we have to put up with as a blind user. We
don't have to like it, but accept that is how it is for the time
being.

In any case I do have high hopes things will change and will
eventually get better. I know a lot of VI users are upset about
Microsoft's change to a modern UI, dislike some of the things they are
use to, but at the same time UI Automation and other accessibility
technologies are making things better for a blind user on Windows at
the same time. Its a bit of a mixed blessing and only time will tell
how successful it is in bridging the gap for sighted and blind users.

As far as your discussion on choice I don't want to spend a lot of
time on that subject, but I will say that is one of the reasons I have
become a Linux supporter over the last few years. Although, I
generally use Gnome 3.x as my personal desktop I can choose other
options. I don't have to necessarily stick with one single graphical
user interface. There are several to choose from and have varying
degrees of accessibility such as Gnome, Mate, Unity, Xfce, KDE, etc.
It gives me the power to customize the OS and user interface to suit
my preferences which is not how things are done in Windows.

Cheers!

On 1/11/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Yes, it might be true, that standard IT training material doesn't cover
> accessibility.
> But the story of a corporation's web services like online database and
> online banking system using Silverlight was in fact true.
> The sad fact was that one trainer had JAWS knowledge allthough he was fully
>
> sighted, while the other trainer was totally blind.
> At that time JAWS 10 was the latest available release and neither of us
> could access that web site properly without sighted assistance.
> But enough of that now.
> I really hope that the next few years will bring more 
accessibility features

>
> into Windows.
> I also would like it if someone either rewrote older games where allowed or
>
> that some kind of emulator or virtual machine configuration would be
> distributed which can be used by blind people to play some older games.
> I also think that Microsoft should focus more on internal changes for
> Windows than inventing a new user interface every two major releases or so.
> I know that not everyone liked the optical design of Modern UI, regardless
> of what new technology or hardware support Windows 8 brought.
> If Windows could be more like linux where you could permanently 
choose which

>
> desktop you want to use, it would probably do more good for 
Windows, because

>
> then people (sighted and blind) could choose during the installation which
> components they want to use.
> In Linux you can use Gnome or KDE (if that's still up and running).
> If you should do so as a blind user is obviously another story, but in
> theory you can choose.
> And that's something you could not officially with the ribbons in MS Office
>
> 2007 and newer over the menus from Office 2003.
> Same went for the Classic (XP start menu) to the Windows Vista/7 start menu
>
> up to no conventional start menu in Windows 8/8.1.
>
>
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> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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If

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hmmm this probably should go in a topic in audiogames offtopic as 
this is something I'd like continued.
However while I have you here even though you had a bad run at least 
you have a training program.

You do uni and hope that the environments and language are accessable to you.
You may or may not get help and you will have to find it yourself.
I was able to do that once but barely.
The other time I managed to do it with carrying a couple laptops 
round just so I could use linux and windows.
I got the credit for installing the system in the previded hard 
drives but I couldn't get access at all and  I spent half the course 
trying to get access.
Not to mention the issues I had with the various organisations and 
computers in question.
We have a few limited training courses for basic computer skills but 
no program like that.
In my country your best bet is to try for a limited number of 
scholarships for your local university otherwise its paying the fees 
which you can't afford so someone else has to pay for you.
To get the scholarship you need a living skills flatting program but 
you can get a good year or 2 or a bad year or 2.
I got a vary bad year and chose to not extend and got a bad deal in 
some of my courses and with some other visual courses needed to 
advance I couldn't continue.
I have the qualifications of an entry level typist, which in my 
country of new zealand prity mean that there is no hope of me getting 
a job off the mainstream.

I'd do better selling alegal software.
I have been able to get the odd job but it needs direct approach, 
agencys at least some of them are useless.
So while you may say you had a bad deal and I think you did at least 
you have a program don't! rubbish! it!

Because here in new zealand I had none.
Even if it was totally crap I'd still want it, to get the right 
qualification even if I didn't get employment would put me on the 
level with normal people in the department.

What I have is technically nothing at all.


At 05:37 a.m. 12/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Thomas,
this is actually sad.
And I don't mean you explaining to me how certain things work.
But since you don't know me personally, I can tell you that I was 
supposed to know such things.

In my country Germany, there are two ways to learn about software development.
The first way is to go to university and study relevant subjects there.
And there is the other way, where you are trained by either a 
company or by a school for the blind.

In this case your training would take three years.
Half that time would be working either in a real company or in one 
created for training but with realistic simulations of the things 
you would do in a real company.

The second half is to go to school learning all the theory you need.
At the end of your three years you would have to take a certain 
written exam which is the same for everyone who wants to go this 
route in Germany and to which blind aspiring software developers 
also have to follow the same rules.
The sad fact however is that we had one blind teacher who did not 
teach us enough in regards to how software, the operating system or 
Windows work against each other or with each other.
My so called training was practically a waste of time, allthough it 
was formally correct by the educational standards under which it is governed.

I know a visually impaired friend who also wants to be a software developer.
He is looking for a job but hasn't found anything good yet.
I fully believe that one half of his problem is because many 
companies might not want a visually impaired worker in their ranks.
But lately I have come to think that it is more due to the messed up 
education in ghis field when you don't want to go the university route...

I won't go more into detail here, since it is really off-topic.

Originally I wanted to know why such programs like Dosbox are not 
accessible (Flash, too).
Now I know that their developers did not consider accessibility when 
designing them.
On the other hand, I also wondered why the screen reader developers 
did not atempt to create solutions on their own, since I know that 
the moment the internet became easy to use for everyone, multimedia 
technologies were developed and deployed.
But since it was mainstream at that time, it was strange to not see 
major screen reader developers atempting to make their own solutions 
until a form of communication might have been established with the 
technology developers or until there were more worldwhide accepted 
standards or guidelines to follow.


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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

I agree look at mmy previous message, at least you had the choice of 
the program.
No such thing exists in new zealand and I'd have dearly jumped at the 
chance to get what you had.

At 07:46 a.m. 12/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Michael,

I see. All I can say is I wouldn't be too hard on your instructor.
When it comes to accessibility and accessibility related technologies
everyone is often in the dark because it is not a core requirement
anywhere in the world to know about such things or to teach it for
that matter. Often times most programmers have to learn about such
things outside of university and on their own time. Since
accessibility is not a part of the standard training course material
most developers are clueless about accessibility issues. So I'm
frankly not surprised you don't know much about this topic yourself
even though you apparently had some IT training.

Anyway, I hope what you have learned from all this is there are no
easy answers to your questions. Accessibility is a cooperative venture
and when application developers and screen reader developers don't
work together accessibility is often less than it could be or
non-existent. The only bright light here is that accessibility is
slowly but surely becoming a standard in programming toolkits. The
Gnome Foundation has made sure that GTK+ is largely accessible and
that accessibility is a high priority so that any Unix-like operating
system such as FreeBSD, BSD, Linux, Solaris, whatever will have a high
degree of accessibility for blind users out of the box. Similar
accessibility standards are under development at Apple with their
Cocoa graphics toolkit for iOS and Mac OS which is largely suppose to
work with VoiceOver. Interesting enough it is Windows that is lagging
behind now days in accessibility standards simply because Microsoft
has been late in adopting standards, and just now are introducing UI
Automation etc into Windows 8 and Windows 10 which will improve things
long term for Windows applications. So I think there is a light at the
end of the tunnel even though it seems like it is very far away right
now.

Cheers!

On 1/11/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> this is actually sad.
> And I don't mean you explaining to me how certain things work.
> But since you don't know me personally, I can tell you that I was supposed
> to know such things.
> In my country Germany, there are two ways to learn about software
> development.
> The first way is to go to university and study relevant subjects there.
> And there is the other way, where you are trained by either a company or by
>
> a school for the blind.
> In this case your training would take three years.
> Half that time would be working either in a real company or in one created
> for training but with realistic simulations of the things you would do in a
>
> real company.
> The second half is to go to school learning all the theory you need.
> At the end of your three years you would have to take a certain 
written exam

>
> which is the same for everyone who wants to go this route in Germany and to
>
> which blind aspiring software developers also have to follow the same
> rules.
> The sad fact however is that we had one blind teacher who did not teach us
> enough in regards to how software, the operating system or Windows work
> against each other or with each other.
> My so called training was practically a waste of time, allthough it was
> formally correct by the educational standards under which it is governed.
> I know a visually impaired friend who also wants to be a software
> developer.
> He is looking for a job but hasn't found anything good yet.
> I fully believe that one half of his problem is because many 
companies might

>
> not want a visually impaired worker in their ranks.
> But lately I have come to think that it is more due to the messed up
> education in ghis field when you don't want to go the university route...
> I won't go more into detail here, since it is really off-topic.
>
> Originally I wanted to know why such programs like Dosbox are not 
accessible

>
> (Flash, too).
> Now I know that their developers did not consider accessibility when
> designing them.
> On the other hand, I also wondered why the screen reader developers did not
>
> atempt to create solutions on their own, since I know that the moment the
> internet became easy to use for everyone, multimedia technologies were
> developed and deployed.
> But since it was mainstream at that time, it was strange to not see major
> screen reader developers atempting to make their own solutions until a form
>
> of communication might have been established with the technology developers
>
> or until there were more worldwhide accepted standards or guidelines to
> follow.
>
>
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> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

then how did it work in native dos  I know for a fact I couldn't play 
with my screen reader in graphics mode but was in the dos text mode.

But yeah, I see your point.
a rewrite will be good but we won't get everything a vm or something 
may work but a major point is that once the current generation and 
those before it go, there will be no idea of what dos was.

My cousins and others don't know or care about dos now.
Only geeks and the like once board with the rest of the games and 
apps venture into the grue's lare.
I grew up with dos so if I could get it back I'd really be happy, but 
its not worth it to get another emulator unless it works or loading a 
bunch of stuff.
I once had an idea of trying with linux when I was sic last year but 
I havn't pulled out the test box with linux for a while now and its 
probable I will not do it for a while if ever again especially now I 
do work on my own stuff.

At 07:28 a.m. 12/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Shaun,

Yes, I meant Dosbox not Drop box. Definitely a typo on my part.

Anyway, to answer your question there are specific APIs designed for
drawing or rendering video game graphics and text on screen such as
Direct3D, OpenGL, etc which gives your game or application direct
access to the video card. As a result since images and text are
rendered directly onto the screen it is very difficult if not
impossible to get access to that content. It totally bypasses all the
standard ways of doing thins, and the only way it would remotely be
possible to make it accessible is if the graphics library  developers
inserted some sort of screen reader hooks into their graphics
libraries which they are likely never to do. Even if they did the
screen readers would have to be updated to use said screen reader
hooks. So until someone somewhere decides to put the time and effort
into it for all intents and purposes it is not going to be accessible
for a blind user.

Cheers!

On 1/10/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> Hmmm you meant dosbox.
> I see what you mean, how then do video games draw graphics and text
> to the screen.
> It sounds we need some sort of translater to make this go over in a
> way via another app or pipe to maybe the windows console or maybe
> something else that would make it work but maybe not.
>

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Well once you have to basics accessability is generally not covered 
but once you have the basics, it should be easy enough to learn access.
Bar emulators and custom software, most mainstream software, apis and 
the like have access in them or can be made accessable with little to 
no effort these days anyway.
Ofcause if you don't follow standards it can get a bit tricky and 
there is enough of that round but it can in most cases be done and 
that was a lot better than what it was 5-10 years ago.


At 08:26 a.m. 12/01/2015, you wrote:
Yes, it might be true, that standard IT training material doesn't 
cover accessibility.
But the story of a corporation's web services like online database 
and online banking system using Silverlight was in fact true.
The sad fact was that one trainer had JAWS knowledge allthough he 
was fully sighted, while the other trainer was totally blind.
At that time JAWS 10 was the latest available release and neither of 
us could access that web site properly without sighted assistance.

But enough of that now.
I really hope that the next few years will bring more accessibility 
features into Windows.
I also would like it if someone either rewrote older games where 
allowed or that some kind of emulator or virtual machine 
configuration would be distributed which can be used by blind people 
to play some older games.
I also think that Microsoft should focus more on internal changes 
for Windows than inventing a new user interface every two major releases or so.
I know that not everyone liked the optical design of Modern UI, 
regardless of what new technology or hardware support Windows 8 brought.
If Windows could be more like linux where you could permanently 
choose which desktop you want to use, it would probably do more good 
for Windows, because then people (sighted and blind) could choose 
during the installation which components they want to use.

In Linux you can use Gnome or KDE (if that's still up and running).
If you should do so as a blind user is obviously another story, but 
in theory you can choose.
And that's something you could not officially with the ribbons in MS 
Office 2007 and newer over the menus from Office 2003.
Same went for the Classic (XP start menu) to the Windows Vista/7 
start menu up to no conventional start menu in Windows 8/8.1.


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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Well to be honest this is  what I think should happen if stuff goes 
outside the realm on this list especially if it drags on.
all general gaming stuff/ or as it gets to off topic should 
eventually end up on the audiogames forum.
Though I like reading this list there will come a time when we will 
probably have  to close this topic.
the ag forum has a lot more users than  us and has the facilities to 
handle everything from general discussion to offtopic and in between.
While I do check this email a lot, I check the forum once a day more 
if I have to handle things.
A major part of reality software's and many other open source or 
small time indie devs and hacker groups is done on there.
If we lost that place for any length of time, it would be like 
loosing gmail, google or the net.

I used to hate forums but now the ag forum has become a major part of my life.
I think once things get to the stage they are not suitable anymore 
and people are still interested they should go there.
You can chat on there as long as you keep on topic for the branch you 
are in and as long as you are not to untidy you will have no problem.
Although it has about the same rules as an eail list being its a 
multi branched system you don't get the restrictions of the email list.

just a thought.

At 04:49 a.m. 12/01/2015, you wrote:

Michael,

You are right. Some audio games do use Flash. So to that extent I'll
allow it. That said, I consider the topic borderline, a gray area,
because the issues here involved aren't specific to games.

As to your question a developer doesn't have to be sighted in order to
develop an application or game in Flash. Like all other programming
languages Flash is just plain text that can be written in any text
editor like Notepad. So developing a program in Flash is 100%
accessible with Jaws or any other screen reader. It is when, and only
when, it is compiled into an executable that a screen reader will
experience accessibility issues. The point being that the developer's
experience and the end user's experience with accessibility is quite
different.

Plus I might add if a blind developer is developing the software
himself/herself there are things they can do to insure that their
software will be more accessible than someone else's using the exact
same tools and languages because they will intentionally be attempting
to make it accessible. If another developer uses the same tools and
languages with no concerns about accessibility chances are it won't
be. It all really comes down to the developer going out of his/her way
to insure maximum accessibility or not.

In the case of Audio Game Maker correct me if I'm wrong but all the
developers were sighted anyway. So there shouldn't be any confusion on
how or why they could develop using Flash technology. However, even if
they weren't all sighted the fact of the matter is they would not have
required sight to program in Flash.

To be honest I think a lot of your questions stems from a lack of
understanding on how software is developed and how it works. I think
it would do you good to study software development and design to get a
better handle on it as I feel like I'm trying to explain Calculus to a
5-year-old who is just learning how to count. Most of your questions
are based on a complete lack of understanding of the fundamentals how
all these technologies work so you don't have the prerequisite
knowledge for someone to explain the problem to you without explaining
on how it all works first. Make sense?

Cheers!

On 1/11/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> I thought that this talk was ok, since the people of CodeFactory even with
> sighted assistance must have found a way to work with technology from
> Macromedia or Adobe, because it is a fact that games like Time 
Adventures or

>
> Alien Invasion are Shockwave applications.
> If using standalone Flash and Shockwave applications is a problem for the
> average blind user, then even the experienced blind developer 
must have more

>
> problems if he or she wants to actually develop Flash or Shockwave content.
> And if Audio Game Maker was continued, we would have had another Shockwave
> made application.
> I just wonder how they were able to develop their games/programs 
with such a

>
> platform.
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-12 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Michael,

Your story about Silver Light wasn't in doubt. I know of several
people with the same sort of story, and unfortunately for the moment
that sort of thing is what we have to put up with as a blind user. We
don't have to like it, but accept that is how it is for the time
being.

In any case I do have high hopes things will change and will
eventually get better. I know a lot of VI users are upset about
Microsoft's change to a modern UI, dislike some of the things they are
use to, but at the same time UI Automation and other accessibility
technologies are making things better for a blind user on Windows at
the same time. Its a bit of a mixed blessing and only time will tell
how successful it is in bridging the gap for sighted and blind users.

As far as your discussion on choice I don't want to spend a lot of
time on that subject, but I will say that is one of the reasons I have
become a Linux supporter over the last few years. Although, I
generally use Gnome 3.x as my personal desktop I can choose other
options. I don't have to necessarily stick with one single graphical
user interface. There are several to choose from and have varying
degrees of accessibility such as Gnome, Mate, Unity, Xfce, KDE, etc.
It gives me the power to customize the OS and user interface to suit
my preferences which is not how things are done in Windows.

Cheers!

On 1/11/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Yes, it might be true, that standard IT training material doesn't cover
> accessibility.
> But the story of a corporation's web services like online database and
> online banking system using Silverlight was in fact true.
> The sad fact was that one trainer had JAWS knowledge allthough he was fully
>
> sighted, while the other trainer was totally blind.
> At that time JAWS 10 was the latest available release and neither of us
> could access that web site properly without sighted assistance.
> But enough of that now.
> I really hope that the next few years will bring more accessibility features
>
> into Windows.
> I also would like it if someone either rewrote older games where allowed or
>
> that some kind of emulator or virtual machine configuration would be
> distributed which can be used by blind people to play some older games.
> I also think that Microsoft should focus more on internal changes for
> Windows than inventing a new user interface every two major releases or so.
> I know that not everyone liked the optical design of Modern UI, regardless
> of what new technology or hardware support Windows 8 brought.
> If Windows could be more like linux where you could permanently choose which
>
> desktop you want to use, it would probably do more good for Windows, because
>
> then people (sighted and blind) could choose during the installation which
> components they want to use.
> In Linux you can use Gnome or KDE (if that's still up and running).
> If you should do so as a blind user is obviously another story, but in
> theory you can choose.
> And that's something you could not officially with the ribbons in MS Office
>
> 2007 and newer over the menus from Office 2003.
> Same went for the Classic (XP start menu) to the Windows Vista/7 start menu
>
> up to no conventional start menu in Windows 8/8.1.
>
>
> ---
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> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-11 Thread Michael Gauler

Yes, it might be true, that standard IT training material doesn't cover 
accessibility.
But the story of a corporation's web services like online database and 
online banking system using Silverlight was in fact true.
The sad fact was that one trainer had JAWS knowledge allthough he was fully 
sighted, while the other trainer was totally blind.
At that time JAWS 10 was the latest available release and neither of us 
could access that web site properly without sighted assistance.

But enough of that now.
I really hope that the next few years will bring more accessibility features 
into Windows.
I also would like it if someone either rewrote older games where allowed or 
that some kind of emulator or virtual machine configuration would be 
distributed which can be used by blind people to play some older games.
I also think that Microsoft should focus more on internal changes for 
Windows than inventing a new user interface every two major releases or so.
I know that not everyone liked the optical design of Modern UI, regardless 
of what new technology or hardware support Windows 8 brought.
If Windows could be more like linux where you could permanently choose which 
desktop you want to use, it would probably do more good for Windows, because 
then people (sighted and blind) could choose during the installation which 
components they want to use.

In Linux you can use Gnome or KDE (if that's still up and running).
If you should do so as a blind user is obviously another story, but in 
theory you can choose.
And that's something you could not officially with the ribbons in MS Office 
2007 and newer over the menus from Office 2003.
Same went for the Classic (XP start menu) to the Windows Vista/7 start menu 
up to no conventional start menu in Windows 8/8.1. 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-11 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Michael,

I see. All I can say is I wouldn't be too hard on your instructor.
When it comes to accessibility and accessibility related technologies
everyone is often in the dark because it is not a core requirement
anywhere in the world to know about such things or to teach it for
that matter. Often times most programmers have to learn about such
things outside of university and on their own time. Since
accessibility is not a part of the standard training course material
most developers are clueless about accessibility issues. So I'm
frankly not surprised you don't know much about this topic yourself
even though you apparently had some IT training.

Anyway, I hope what you have learned from all this is there are no
easy answers to your questions. Accessibility is a cooperative venture
and when application developers and screen reader developers don't
work together accessibility is often less than it could be or
non-existent. The only bright light here is that accessibility is
slowly but surely becoming a standard in programming toolkits. The
Gnome Foundation has made sure that GTK+ is largely accessible and
that accessibility is a high priority so that any Unix-like operating
system such as FreeBSD, BSD, Linux, Solaris, whatever will have a high
degree of accessibility for blind users out of the box. Similar
accessibility standards are under development at Apple with their
Cocoa graphics toolkit for iOS and Mac OS which is largely suppose to
work with VoiceOver. Interesting enough it is Windows that is lagging
behind now days in accessibility standards simply because Microsoft
has been late in adopting standards, and just now are introducing UI
Automation etc into Windows 8 and Windows 10 which will improve things
long term for Windows applications. So I think there is a light at the
end of the tunnel even though it seems like it is very far away right
now.

Cheers!

On 1/11/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> this is actually sad.
> And I don't mean you explaining to me how certain things work.
> But since you don't know me personally, I can tell you that I was supposed
> to know such things.
> In my country Germany, there are two ways to learn about software
> development.
> The first way is to go to university and study relevant subjects there.
> And there is the other way, where you are trained by either a company or by
>
> a school for the blind.
> In this case your training would take three years.
> Half that time would be working either in a real company or in one created
> for training but with realistic simulations of the things you would do in a
>
> real company.
> The second half is to go to school learning all the theory you need.
> At the end of your three years you would have to take a certain written exam
>
> which is the same for everyone who wants to go this route in Germany and to
>
> which blind aspiring software developers also have to follow the same
> rules.
> The sad fact however is that we had one blind teacher who did not teach us
> enough in regards to how software, the operating system or Windows work
> against each other or with each other.
> My so called training was practically a waste of time, allthough it was
> formally correct by the educational standards under which it is governed.
> I know a visually impaired friend who also wants to be a software
> developer.
> He is looking for a job but hasn't found anything good yet.
> I fully believe that one half of his problem is because many companies might
>
> not want a visually impaired worker in their ranks.
> But lately I have come to think that it is more due to the messed up
> education in ghis field when you don't want to go the university route...
> I won't go more into detail here, since it is really off-topic.
>
> Originally I wanted to know why such programs like Dosbox are not accessible
>
> (Flash, too).
> Now I know that their developers did not consider accessibility when
> designing them.
> On the other hand, I also wondered why the screen reader developers did not
>
> atempt to create solutions on their own, since I know that the moment the
> internet became easy to use for everyone, multimedia technologies were
> developed and deployed.
> But since it was mainstream at that time, it was strange to not see major
> screen reader developers atempting to make their own solutions until a form
>
> of communication might have been established with the technology developers
>
> or until there were more worldwhide accepted standards or guidelines to
> follow.
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-11 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Shaun,

Yes, I meant Dosbox not Drop box. Definitely a typo on my part.

Anyway, to answer your question there are specific APIs designed for
drawing or rendering video game graphics and text on screen such as
Direct3D, OpenGL, etc which gives your game or application direct
access to the video card. As a result since images and text are
rendered directly onto the screen it is very difficult if not
impossible to get access to that content. It totally bypasses all the
standard ways of doing thins, and the only way it would remotely be
possible to make it accessible is if the graphics library  developers
inserted some sort of screen reader hooks into their graphics
libraries which they are likely never to do. Even if they did the
screen readers would have to be updated to use said screen reader
hooks. So until someone somewhere decides to put the time and effort
into it for all intents and purposes it is not going to be accessible
for a blind user.

Cheers!

On 1/10/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> Hmmm you meant dosbox.
> I see what you mean, how then do video games draw graphics and text
> to the screen.
> It sounds we need some sort of translater to make this go over in a
> way via another app or pipe to maybe the windows console or maybe
> something else that would make it work but maybe not.
>

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-11 Thread shaun everiss

Hmmm you meant dosbox.
I see what you mean, how then do video games draw graphics and text 
to the screen.
It sounds we need some sort of translater to make this go over in a 
way via another app or pipe to maybe the windows console or maybe 
something else that would make it work but maybe not.

At 12:26 p.m. 11/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Shaun,

To begin with I do believe you have a misunderstanding what SDL is.
SDL, the Simple Direct Media Layer, is a cross-platform multimedia
library that handles graphics, sound, input events, etc. So ripping
SDL out of Dropbox and replacing it with something else isn't nearly
as easy as you make it sound. I do believe Dosbox would have to be
completely rewritten from scratch in order to remove SDL support so
you are overly simplifying the situation.

However, to answer your questions more directly the first problem by
removing SDL is we'd lose the cross-platform support. I know many
Windows users would not care about that so much, but anyone using
Linux or Mac OS would certainly lose out just by yanking SDL out and
replacing it with a platform specific API.

The second and perhaps more serious issue is the way Dropbox displays
its contents to the screen is through a graphics library. In other
words what is displayed on screen in Dropbox is drawn directly to the
screen the way video game graphics and text are drawn to the screen so
yanking SDL out and replacing it with another graphics library like
Direct3D or OpenGL  won't help the situation any.

Cheers!

On 1/9/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> hmmm dosbox is opensource, what would be the disadvantage of gettring
> rid of sdl entirely, obviously you would need the old 16 bit support
> which is why sdl is probably used, but why is there not a port
> without sdl or at least sdl for output, it seems the most logical way
> to handle this is kill sdl entirely but what other purpose is it
> needed then for output.
> and if its needed for more  things than output then could output be
> put somewhere either via dosbox itself or via some sort of dosbox
> translater that connects with it like a frontend/ backend, there are
> frontends for dosbox for some games that doesn't help us for text
> games sadly but a program that used  an emulator like dosbox to run
> 16bit apps but did its own outputs either as a windows or console app
> would that work, something like a vm without all the crazyness you
> need to make a vm work like a portable vm.
> Hmm if josh's dos vm could be made such that the vm was portable with
> the python libraries included and everything compiled with maybe the
> only need to install com 0 com or even have it as part of the setup
> package and all the other stuff and have it run off one icon one
> executable that would install and run all files and manage itself
> like a standard windows program I'd have no issue running it.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-11 Thread Michael Gauler


Hi Thomas,
this is actually sad.
And I don't mean you explaining to me how certain things work.
But since you don't know me personally, I can tell you that I was supposed 
to know such things.
In my country Germany, there are two ways to learn about software 
development.

The first way is to go to university and study relevant subjects there.
And there is the other way, where you are trained by either a company or by 
a school for the blind.

In this case your training would take three years.
Half that time would be working either in a real company or in one created 
for training but with realistic simulations of the things you would do in a 
real company.

The second half is to go to school learning all the theory you need.
At the end of your three years you would have to take a certain written exam 
which is the same for everyone who wants to go this route in Germany and to 
which blind aspiring software developers also have to follow the same rules.
The sad fact however is that we had one blind teacher who did not teach us 
enough in regards to how software, the operating system or Windows work 
against each other or with each other.
My so called training was practically a waste of time, allthough it was 
formally correct by the educational standards under which it is governed.

I know a visually impaired friend who also wants to be a software developer.
He is looking for a job but hasn't found anything good yet.
I fully believe that one half of his problem is because many companies might 
not want a visually impaired worker in their ranks.
But lately I have come to think that it is more due to the messed up 
education in ghis field when you don't want to go the university route...

I won't go more into detail here, since it is really off-topic.

Originally I wanted to know why such programs like Dosbox are not accessible 
(Flash, too).
Now I know that their developers did not consider accessibility when 
designing them.
On the other hand, I also wondered why the screen reader developers did not 
atempt to create solutions on their own, since I know that the moment the 
internet became easy to use for everyone, multimedia technologies were 
developed and deployed.
But since it was mainstream at that time, it was strange to not see major 
screen reader developers atempting to make their own solutions until a form 
of communication might have been established with the technology developers 
or until there were more worldwhide accepted standards or guidelines to 
follow. 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-11 Thread Thomas Ward

Michael,

You are right. Some audio games do use Flash. So to that extent I'll
allow it. That said, I consider the topic borderline, a gray area,
because the issues here involved aren't specific to games.

As to your question a developer doesn't have to be sighted in order to
develop an application or game in Flash. Like all other programming
languages Flash is just plain text that can be written in any text
editor like Notepad. So developing a program in Flash is 100%
accessible with Jaws or any other screen reader. It is when, and only
when, it is compiled into an executable that a screen reader will
experience accessibility issues. The point being that the developer's
experience and the end user's experience with accessibility is quite
different.

Plus I might add if a blind developer is developing the software
himself/herself there are things they can do to insure that their
software will be more accessible than someone else's using the exact
same tools and languages because they will intentionally be attempting
to make it accessible. If another developer uses the same tools and
languages with no concerns about accessibility chances are it won't
be. It all really comes down to the developer going out of his/her way
to insure maximum accessibility or not.

In the case of Audio Game Maker correct me if I'm wrong but all the
developers were sighted anyway. So there shouldn't be any confusion on
how or why they could develop using Flash technology. However, even if
they weren't all sighted the fact of the matter is they would not have
required sight to program in Flash.

To be honest I think a lot of your questions stems from a lack of
understanding on how software is developed and how it works. I think
it would do you good to study software development and design to get a
better handle on it as I feel like I'm trying to explain Calculus to a
5-year-old who is just learning how to count. Most of your questions
are based on a complete lack of understanding of the fundamentals how
all these technologies work so you don't have the prerequisite
knowledge for someone to explain the problem to you without explaining
on how it all works first. Make sense?

Cheers!

On 1/11/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> I thought that this talk was ok, since the people of CodeFactory even with
> sighted assistance must have found a way to work with technology from
> Macromedia or Adobe, because it is a fact that games like Time Adventures or
>
> Alien Invasion are Shockwave applications.
> If using standalone Flash and Shockwave applications is a problem for the
> average blind user, then even the experienced blind developer must have more
>
> problems if he or she wants to actually develop Flash or Shockwave content.
> And if Audio Game Maker was continued, we would have had another Shockwave
> made application.
> I just wonder how they were able to develop their games/programs with such a
>
> platform.
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-11 Thread Michael Gauler

I thought that this talk was ok, since the people of CodeFactory even with 
sighted assistance must have found a way to work with technology from 
Macromedia or Adobe, because it is a fact that games like Time Adventures or 
Alien Invasion are Shockwave applications.
If using standalone Flash and Shockwave applications is a problem for the 
average blind user, then even the experienced blind developer must have more 
problems if he or she wants to actually develop Flash or Shockwave content.
And if Audio Game Maker was continued, we would have had another Shockwave 
made application.
I just wonder how they were able to develop their games/programs with such a 
platform. 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Michael,

I don't want to be rude here, but this discussion is really getting
way off topic for this list. I think I've allowed this discussion of
technologies to go on longer than I should. Bottom line, we can't
answer your questions, and it isn't germane to the discussion of games
so let us close the topic and move on.

Cheers!


On 1/10/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> About the file structure, yes it helped.
> But not about the question why SWF files made into a .exe file can't be read
>
> by any known Windows screen readers and why it looks like that Adobe or the
>
> screen reader developers don't want the users to read such Flash
> applications.
>

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Shaun,

To begin with I do believe you have a misunderstanding what SDL is.
SDL, the Simple Direct Media Layer, is a cross-platform multimedia
library that handles graphics, sound, input events, etc. So ripping
SDL out of Dropbox and replacing it with something else isn't nearly
as easy as you make it sound. I do believe Dosbox would have to be
completely rewritten from scratch in order to remove SDL support so
you are overly simplifying the situation.

However, to answer your questions more directly the first problem by
removing SDL is we'd lose the cross-platform support. I know many
Windows users would not care about that so much, but anyone using
Linux or Mac OS would certainly lose out just by yanking SDL out and
replacing it with a platform specific API.

The second and perhaps more serious issue is the way Dropbox displays
its contents to the screen is through a graphics library. In other
words what is displayed on screen in Dropbox is drawn directly to the
screen the way video game graphics and text are drawn to the screen so
yanking SDL out and replacing it with another graphics library like
Direct3D or OpenGL  won't help the situation any.

Cheers!

On 1/9/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> hmmm dosbox is opensource, what would be the disadvantage of gettring
> rid of sdl entirely, obviously you would need the old 16 bit support
> which is why sdl is probably used, but why is there not a port
> without sdl or at least sdl for output, it seems the most logical way
> to handle this is kill sdl entirely but what other purpose is it
> needed then for output.
> and if its needed for more  things than output then could output be
> put somewhere either via dosbox itself or via some sort of dosbox
> translater that connects with it like a frontend/ backend, there are
> frontends for dosbox for some games that doesn't help us for text
> games sadly but a program that used  an emulator like dosbox to run
> 16bit apps but did its own outputs either as a windows or console app
> would that work, something like a vm without all the crazyness you
> need to make a vm work like a portable vm.
> Hmm if josh's dos vm could be made such that the vm was portable with
> the python libraries included and everything compiled with maybe the
> only need to install com 0 com or even have it as part of the setup
> package and all the other stuff and have it run off one icon one
> executable that would install and run all files and manage itself
> like a standard windows program I'd have no issue running it.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-10 Thread Tim Chase

My (admittedly weak) understanding is that an application can either
use the operating system's native controls, or it can opt for
custom-drawn controls.  The former should be more accessible as the
OS knows how to expose them, while the latter gives the developer more
control over the appearance.  However, it also means that, unless the
developer takes the pains to make those custom controls accessible,
they won't be.  And in my experience, very few Flash developers
actually take that time, not even to get basic things down like the
scroll-wheel, let alone more obscure things like accessibility.

Signed, a Flash-hater. (grins)

-tim

On 2015-01-10 18:58, Michael Gauler wrote:
> About the file structure, yes it helped.
> But not about the question why SWF files made into a .exe file
> can't be read by any known Windows screen readers and why it looks
> like that Adobe or the screen reader developers don't want the
> users to read such Flash applications.
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tim Chase" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 6:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox
> 
> 
> > Thomas (et al.),
> >
> > Flash is much like Java in that it's a programming
> > language/environment with a virtual machine.  The makers of Flash
> > (Macromedia, eventually purchased by Adobe) put in accessibility
> > hooks so that programmers can take advantage of those, but like
> > with Java and other programming environments, if the programmers
> > don't take advantage of those accessibility hooks, then it
> > results in a (mostly) inaccessible application.
> >
> > Because it's a programming language/environment, the .FLA files
> > aren't just the media, but they are the media bundled with
> > graphics, video, code (the actual code is ActionScript, a cousin
> > of JavaScript), data, etc. or those programs can download
> > additional external resources. For that reason, the .FLA file
> > might not have the media to be extracted, or it might have the
> > media but need the program logic to decode/decrypt the media.  So
> > the .FLA file is more like a .JAR file for Java or a .ZIP file
> > elsewhere, bundling lots of stuff together along with some
> > conventions about how to execute it.
> >
> > If you have a .SWF or .FLV file, those are specifically videos
> > designed to be played within a Flash application, so you can use a
> > media-extractor such as "ffmpeg" or "swfextract" (usually in the
> > "swftools" package) on Linux to convert/extract the media to a
> > format such as .MP3 that is more readily playable.
> >
> > Hope that was helpful and clears things up,
> >
> > -tim
> > 
> 
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-10 Thread shaun everiss

hmmm dosbox is opensource, what would be the disadvantage of gettring 
rid of sdl entirely, obviously you would need the old 16 bit support 
which is why sdl is probably used, but why is there not a port 
without sdl or at least sdl for output, it seems the most logical way 
to handle this is kill sdl entirely but what other purpose is it 
needed then for output.
and if its needed for more  things than output then could output be 
put somewhere either via dosbox itself or via some sort of dosbox 
translater that connects with it like a frontend/ backend, there are 
frontends for dosbox for some games that doesn't help us for text 
games sadly but a program that used  an emulator like dosbox to run 
16bit apps but did its own outputs either as a windows or console app 
would that work, something like a vm without all the crazyness you 
need to make a vm work like a portable vm.
Hmm if josh's dos vm could be made such that the vm was portable with 
the python libraries included and everything compiled with maybe the 
only need to install com 0 com or even have it as part of the setup 
package and all the other stuff and have it run off one icon one 
executable that would install and run all files and manage itself 
like a standard windows program I'd have no issue running it.

At 02:18 a.m. 10/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Shaun,

No, absolutely not. The reason being that SDL is itself the problem.
The way SDL displays text on the screen is at a very low level that
completely bypasses the Windows API etc right on by therefore there is
no way for the screen reader to determine what is on screen. It would
not be any different than creating an emulator using OpenGL,
Direct3D,etc because the text, and I use that term loosely here, is
rendered graphically rather than through standard Windows controls. As
long as Dosbox etc is outside of the standard accessibility chain it
will never be accessible.

Cheers!

On 1/9/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> I just had a crazy thought, if there was some way to have an sdl app
> that looked like a console or that was a windows console interface
> with dosbox would that work.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-10 Thread Josh k


thanks and i got that saved now in notepad.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 2:50 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

espeak.py, line 5:

 _espeak.setVoiceByLanguage("en")

and, added in following on line 6:

 _espeak.setVoiceAndVariant(voice=None, variant="klatt4")

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



hey jacob what is that line that changes espeak variants again?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/4/2015 5:45 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Shaun, see my other reply to Thomas -  - was talking about 
launching the VMWare instance of dos 6.22, firing up windows 3.1 
inside it, and then launching that 16 bit version of dos from a 
terminal window, operating through the windows driver system, etc.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the issue jakob is 64 bit windows will not run 16 bit dos games or 
16 bit anything because 64 bit cpus can't process 16 bit data!
Ms took dos emulation out of windows 64 bit which is why at least 
on the systems with 4gb or less the maximum the 32 bit standard can 
handle that I am running a 32 bit os.

dos games run to an extent with nvda its not perfect but they do run.
I have 7 though so who knows.
as security gets more and more harder to handle some of these older 
programs may not run as well as they used to.


At 10:18 p.m. 4/01/2015, you wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in 
the dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of 
terminal window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP 
from within there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message ----- From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt 
option which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it 
from just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did 
nothing the first time, and then on second try, started trying 
to work, but seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and 
launched windows first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos 
terminal, and then launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the 
music, and sound effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a couple 
of bad ball rolls to double check, and sound effects, music 
clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight 
stutter effect during music clip playback, but, that might 
eitehr be the way it would have sounded, or else it's due to 
virtual hardware overload, or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, 
and launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window 
launched from within windows 3.1, and both times I can use 
windows, via window eyes, and then use the command prompt 
window from within windows, but ASAP only lets me hear what's 
automatically popping up on screen, and screen review 
keystrokes don't seem to work, and wouldn't know what to try 
to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-10 Thread Michael Gauler


Hi Thomas,
that's ok.
It is no problem that you don't know all the technical details of this.
I was just wondering why there is that huge difference between Flash content 
in a web browser and as a stand alone application.
It sounds a bit strange that web content would be made accessible by design 
but not the separate applications.
I mean, initial Flash support in JAWS for example goes way back to around 
JAWS 5 or 4.
And since then many things were changed but never was there the support for 
the other Flash Player.
And during that time it was more the job of the screen reader developer to 
provide support for the most often used applications, like it was done for 
Microsoft Office for example.
Thus from the point of view from the end user it looked as if the screen 
reader developers would not want to include support for such technology even 
if it was not their own fault.
And as I said, even if providing accessibility is more in the hand of the 
application developers today, at that time it probably wasn't.
And that's why it was for the user at least a strange thing that sighted 
workers had to deal with such things or Silverlight web applications but the 
blind or visually impaired workers could not do so without assistance 
because screen readers could not work with such upcoming technology which 
was in use around the world. 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-10 Thread Michael Gauler


About the file structure, yes it helped.
But not about the question why SWF files made into a .exe file can't be read 
by any known Windows screen readers and why it looks like that Adobe or the 
screen reader developers don't want the users to read such Flash 
applications.



- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Chase" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



Thomas (et al.),

Flash is much like Java in that it's a programming
language/environment with a virtual machine.  The makers of Flash
(Macromedia, eventually purchased by Adobe) put in accessibility
hooks so that programmers can take advantage of those, but like with
Java and other programming environments, if the programmers don't
take advantage of those accessibility hooks, then it results in a
(mostly) inaccessible application.

Because it's a programming language/environment, the .FLA files
aren't just the media, but they are the media bundled with graphics,
video, code (the actual code is ActionScript, a cousin of JavaScript),
data, etc. or those programs can download additional external
resources. For that reason, the .FLA file might not have the media to
be extracted, or it might have the media but need the program logic to
decode/decrypt the media.  So the .FLA file is more like a .JAR file
for Java or a .ZIP file elsewhere, bundling lots of stuff together
along with some conventions about how to execute it.

If you have a .SWF or .FLV file, those are specifically videos
designed to be played within a Flash application, so you can use a
media-extractor such as "ffmpeg" or "swfextract" (usually in the
"swftools" package) on Linux to convert/extract the media to a format
such as .MP3 that is more readily playable.

Hope that was helpful and clears things up,

-tim



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-10 Thread Tim Chase

Thomas (et al.),

Flash is much like Java in that it's a programming
language/environment with a virtual machine.  The makers of Flash
(Macromedia, eventually purchased by Adobe) put in accessibility
hooks so that programmers can take advantage of those, but like with
Java and other programming environments, if the programmers don't
take advantage of those accessibility hooks, then it results in a
(mostly) inaccessible application.

Because it's a programming language/environment, the .FLA files
aren't just the media, but they are the media bundled with graphics,
video, code (the actual code is ActionScript, a cousin of JavaScript),
data, etc. or those programs can download additional external
resources. For that reason, the .FLA file might not have the media to
be extracted, or it might have the media but need the program logic to
decode/decrypt the media.  So the .FLA file is more like a .JAR file
for Java or a .ZIP file elsewhere, bundling lots of stuff together
along with some conventions about how to execute it.

If you have a .SWF or .FLV file, those are specifically videos
designed to be played within a Flash application, so you can use a
media-extractor such as "ffmpeg" or "swfextract" (usually in the
"swftools" package) on Linux to convert/extract the media to a format
such as .MP3 that is more readily playable.

Hope that was helpful and clears things up,

-tim


On 2015-01-10 11:30, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> If you want specific reasons for why Flash accessibility works in
> some instances and not in others you are going to have to ask the
> experts. By that I mean the makers of Jaws and Window-Eyes directly
> as I don't honestly know the technical reasons for why the
> accessibility is the way it is. Although, I can give an educated
> guess.
> 
> I have a feeling that the Flash user interface, the way graphical
> controls are displayed, work differently in a web browser than in a
> standard lone application. Again, I don't know this for certain, but
> it would be a logical guess. It is even possible that Adobe helped
> facilitate access for Flash in web browsers but not in stand alone
> applications.
> 
> All I can say for certain is there is probably some logical
> explanation for why accessibility problems for Flash applications
> exists, and if you want more information then you are going to have
> to go to the people who would be in the know. I'm just an average
> programmer who happens to know a bit about how the accessibility on
> his computer works, but am not privy to specific details about every
> technology out there. So I'm afraid you've gotten all the
> information on this subject you can get out of me.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> On 1/10/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> > That is sadly true.
> > But in the case of Flash, I still don't get what the problem is.
> > When I want to listen to a piece of classical music on a
> > computer, I can use
> >
> > Winamp, VLC or Windows Media player.
> > The user interface of any of the players is different.
> > But the song remains the same.
> > No player alters the used instruments or the speed at which they
> > are played.
> > The song in this example remains the same.
> > A flash file should be like a song for this example.
> > If JAWS or Window Eyes can read a flash file in a web browser,
> > then I'd like
> >
> > to know why the same can't be done with the stand alone Flash
> > player module.
> > And if Adobe helped making PDF files accessible, then they must
> > also have done something to make Flash in web pages partially
> > accessible. If they had done nothing, we would be totally unable
> > to interact with Flash.
> > If there some form of allthough limited or partial support
> > exists, the question would be why it was never expanded to also
> > work with the stand alone player module.
> > And please keep in mind that such companies as CodeFactory,
> > allthough they probably had sighted members, made such active
> > content with their games and
> >
> > used a stand alone player module as the main executable program
> > on their CDs.
> > The only difference is that they did use Director now known as
> > Adobe Shockwave.
> >
> >
> > ---
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> 
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Michael,

If you want specific reasons for why Flash accessibility works in some
instances and not in others you are going to have to ask the experts.
By that I mean the makers of Jaws and Window-Eyes directly as I don't
honestly know the technical reasons for why the accessibility is the
way it is. Although, I can give an educated guess.

I have a feeling that the Flash user interface, the way graphical
controls are displayed, work differently in a web browser than in a
standard lone application. Again, I don't know this for certain, but
it would be a logical guess. It is even possible that Adobe helped
facilitate access for Flash in web browsers but not in stand alone
applications.

All I can say for certain is there is probably some logical
explanation for why accessibility problems for Flash applications
exists, and if you want more information then you are going to have to
go to the people who would be in the know. I'm just an average
programmer who happens to know a bit about how the accessibility on
his computer works, but am not privy to specific details about every
technology out there. So I'm afraid you've gotten all the information
on this subject you can get out of me.

Cheers!

On 1/10/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> That is sadly true.
> But in the case of Flash, I still don't get what the problem is.
> When I want to listen to a piece of classical music on a computer, I can use
>
> Winamp, VLC or Windows Media player.
> The user interface of any of the players is different.
> But the song remains the same.
> No player alters the used instruments or the speed at which they are
> played.
> The song in this example remains the same.
> A flash file should be like a song for this example.
> If JAWS or Window Eyes can read a flash file in a web browser, then I'd like
>
> to know why the same can't be done with the stand alone Flash player
> module.
> And if Adobe helped making PDF files accessible, then they must also have
> done something to make Flash in web pages partially accessible.
> If they had done nothing, we would be totally unable to interact with
> Flash.
> If there some form of allthough limited or partial support exists, the
> question would be why it was never expanded to also work with the stand
> alone player module.
> And please keep in mind that such companies as CodeFactory, allthough they
> probably had sighted members, made such active content with their games and
>
> used a stand alone player module as the main executable program on their
> CDs.
> The only difference is that they did use Director now known as Adobe
> Shockwave.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-10 Thread Michael Gauler


That is sadly true.
But in the case of Flash, I still don't get what the problem is.
When I want to listen to a piece of classical music on a computer, I can use 
Winamp, VLC or Windows Media player.

The user interface of any of the players is different.
But the song remains the same.
No player alters the used instruments or the speed at which they are played.
The song in this example remains the same.
A flash file should be like a song for this example.
If JAWS or Window Eyes can read a flash file in a web browser, then I'd like 
to know why the same can't be done with the stand alone Flash player module.
And if Adobe helped making PDF files accessible, then they must also have 
done something to make Flash in web pages partially accessible.

If they had done nothing, we would be totally unable to interact with Flash.
If there some form of allthough limited or partial support exists, the 
question would be why it was never expanded to also work with the stand 
alone player module.
And please keep in mind that such companies as CodeFactory, allthough they 
probably had sighted members, made such active content with their games and 
used a stand alone player module as the main executable program on their 
CDs.
The only difference is that they did use Director now known as Adobe 
Shockwave. 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Michael,

I do see where you are coming from here, but unfortunately it is a
case of the application developer not taking an interest in
accessibility, not making their application accessible, and not
working with screen reader manufacturers to make their program
accessible. I've already indicated in a prior e-mail how a screen
reader works in principle, and when a developer chooses to use
non-standard APIs and graphical user interfaces there is no
accessibility to be had. That means if Adobe, for example, doesn't
work towards making their custom graphical user interfaces accessible
then Jaws, Window-Eyes, NVDA, etc is not going to be able to read
stand alone Flash applications no matter how old it is. The point is
that accessibility requires cooperation from the application's
developer as much as the screen reader developer.

For example, you mentioned pdf accessibility. That is a good example.
There was a time in the 90's when Acrobat Reader was still owned by
Macromedia and it was not accessible at all. It was later purchased by
Adobe, and beginning with Acrobat Reader 5 Adobe put a lot of time and
work into making it screen reader accessible. They worked with Freedom
Scientific and the other screen reader companies to insure
accessibility. If Adobe put as much time and energy into Flash access
as they had on Acrobat Reader access then Flash would be accessible.

Bottom line, the reasons some technologies are accessible and some
aren't comes down to two things. One the application was developed
using standards, or two they worked side by side with the screen
reader manufacturers to make their technology accessible. Without that
cooperation chances are no accessibility will come of the technology.

Cheers!

On 1/9/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> I got what you mean and with an infinite number of custom controls it is
> practically impossible to get them all.
> But there are some controls or technologies which have been around for
> years.
> I obviously don't know how much changes they got over the years.
> But I could give you a simple example of what I meant when I said that some
>
> controls should be made fully accessible.
>
> We both know that for example JAWS is capable to read some flash content
> within a web browser (e.g. Internet Explorer or Firefox).
> Not every Flash module is a player for videos or contains animated material
>
> itself.
> If I download a site which uses one embedded .SWF file (HTML code), I can
> have that SWF file.
> If I download the Standalone Flash Player from Adobe and link my .SWF file
> with it, I get a new self contained Flash file.
> It is another .exe file with the SWF file included in it.
> This .EXE file can be run on any computer even if the Flash Player is not
> installed on that computer.
> If I run this new file, JAWS will be unable to read the absolutely same
> content you could have read on whatever website you took the file or files
> from.
> No one knows why you can't read the window of that application, allthough
> the controls of the Flash file itself were not altered from the web
> version.
> Flash Player was there before or near the release of Internet Explorer 4.0.
> JAWS was probably around for the same time.
> And with more and more Windows computers being sold, more people got
> internet and such more people used such technologies as Flash or Shockwave
> or later Microsoft Silverlight.
> I had to access a professional online banking service (within a place I
> worked at) which was built with Silverlight.
> At this time it was supposed to be a job requirement to connect with this
> site.
> This company specifically employed blind and visually impaired people.
> We had blind workers and some were in training and some tutors and higher
> ups were also blind or visually impaired.
> At that time we only had JAWS 10 (there was no newer version at that time).
> We blind people couldn't use the online banking feature.
> Do you want to know why?
> Because it was a Silverlight application on a web server embedded into HTML
>
> content.
> We barely got the online database application to work and we needed access
> to their data, so we had to use their software to connect to them.
> This was at that point a real problem for us.
> We could not solve this.
> We asked the visually impaired people in the company to help us.
> But without sighted assistance it was totally impossible.
>
> The point of this long story is that some technology is used really often in
>
> the sighted world.
> And while you are right that we can't make our screen readers know
> everything non standard, we should at least do with known interactive
> content like Silverlight or Flash, when it is taken out of a web browser.
> There must be a reason why JAWS can read PDF files (with Adobe Reader) like
>
> a web page.
> But if it works for a browser or a mail client or a the mainstream PDF
> reader, surely it should be made possible to do it with the main web
> technologies whic

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Scott Chesworth

The short answer of why some non-standard stuff is accessible but most
isn't comes down to a gap between screen reader manufacturers and
mainstream technology developers, as well as a gap between morality
and business. Thomas has already described how a screen reader works
in principal, so you know that if an API doesn't output anything in a
standard that a screen reader can understand, you've got nothing.
Well, most of the time, there's very little a screen reader developer
can do to get better access to that program without changes and code
additions being made to the program itself, which can only be
performed by the original developer unless the program is open source.
And this is where things get stuck. That developer needs to keep the
lights on, pay their bills etc, so investing many hours, days, or in
some cases weeks of work and having a potential rethink of their
design just to support a tiny minority market isn't going to happen.
Of course, the larger companies like adobe could assign a small team
of developers to the task for months at a time without missing the
pocket change, but in corporations that size, it's so important that
the money-making machine is kept running 24/7 that even if you do
manage to get through the red tape to someone who could influence such
change, they'll have a hard job justifying it to their management
because again, we don't translate into significant sales. Even at a
more morally sound company, beyond a certain size, I'd bet
accessibility would be put on the backburner purely from the point of
view of risking product destabilization if their code base was
currently ticking along nicely.

I realize this is a very negative reply, but so far as I understand
it, it's how things work. I'm a screen reader user too man, in my
ideal world everything would be accessible, but those are a few of the
things that are currently standing in the way.

Scott

On 1/9/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> I got what you mean and with an infinite number of custom controls it is
> practically impossible to get them all.
> But there are some controls or technologies which have been around for
> years.
> I obviously don't know how much changes they got over the years.
> But I could give you a simple example of what I meant when I said that some
>
> controls should be made fully accessible.
>
> We both know that for example JAWS is capable to read some flash content
> within a web browser (e.g. Internet Explorer or Firefox).
> Not every Flash module is a player for videos or contains animated material
>
> itself.
> If I download a site which uses one embedded .SWF file (HTML code), I can
> have that SWF file.
> If I download the Standalone Flash Player from Adobe and link my .SWF file
> with it, I get a new self contained Flash file.
> It is another .exe file with the SWF file included in it.
> This .EXE file can be run on any computer even if the Flash Player is not
> installed on that computer.
> If I run this new file, JAWS will be unable to read the absolutely same
> content you could have read on whatever website you took the file or files
> from.
> No one knows why you can't read the window of that application, allthough
> the controls of the Flash file itself were not altered from the web
> version.
> Flash Player was there before or near the release of Internet Explorer 4.0.
> JAWS was probably around for the same time.
> And with more and more Windows computers being sold, more people got
> internet and such more people used such technologies as Flash or Shockwave
> or later Microsoft Silverlight.
> I had to access a professional online banking service (within a place I
> worked at) which was built with Silverlight.
> At this time it was supposed to be a job requirement to connect with this
> site.
> This company specifically employed blind and visually impaired people.
> We had blind workers and some were in training and some tutors and higher
> ups were also blind or visually impaired.
> At that time we only had JAWS 10 (there was no newer version at that time).
> We blind people couldn't use the online banking feature.
> Do you want to know why?
> Because it was a Silverlight application on a web server embedded into HTML
>
> content.
> We barely got the online database application to work and we needed access
> to their data, so we had to use their software to connect to them.
> This was at that point a real problem for us.
> We could not solve this.
> We asked the visually impaired people in the company to help us.
> But without sighted assistance it was totally impossible.
>
> The point of this long story is that some technology is used really often in
>
> the sighted world.
> And while you are right that we can't make our screen readers know
> everything non standard, we should at least do with known interactive
> content like Silverlight or Flash, when it is taken out of a web browser.
> There must be a reason why JAWS can read PDF files (with Adobe Reader) like
>
> a w

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Michael Gauler


Hi Thomas,
I got what you mean and with an infinite number of custom controls it is 
practically impossible to get them all.
But there are some controls or technologies which have been around for 
years.

I obviously don't know how much changes they got over the years.
But I could give you a simple example of what I meant when I said that some 
controls should be made fully accessible.


We both know that for example JAWS is capable to read some flash content 
within a web browser (e.g. Internet Explorer or Firefox).
Not every Flash module is a player for videos or contains animated material 
itself.
If I download a site which uses one embedded .SWF file (HTML code), I can 
have that SWF file.
If I download the Standalone Flash Player from Adobe and link my .SWF file 
with it, I get a new self contained Flash file.

It is another .exe file with the SWF file included in it.
This .EXE file can be run on any computer even if the Flash Player is not 
installed on that computer.
If I run this new file, JAWS will be unable to read the absolutely same 
content you could have read on whatever website you took the file or files 
from.
No one knows why you can't read the window of that application, allthough 
the controls of the Flash file itself were not altered from the web version.

Flash Player was there before or near the release of Internet Explorer 4.0.
JAWS was probably around for the same time.
And with more and more Windows computers being sold, more people got 
internet and such more people used such technologies as Flash or Shockwave 
or later Microsoft Silverlight.
I had to access a professional online banking service (within a place I 
worked at) which was built with Silverlight.
At this time it was supposed to be a job requirement to connect with this 
site.

This company specifically employed blind and visually impaired people.
We had blind workers and some were in training and some tutors and higher 
ups were also blind or visually impaired.

At that time we only had JAWS 10 (there was no newer version at that time).
We blind people couldn't use the online banking feature.
Do you want to know why?
Because it was a Silverlight application on a web server embedded into HTML 
content.
We barely got the online database application to work and we needed access 
to their data, so we had to use their software to connect to them.

This was at that point a real problem for us.
We could not solve this.
We asked the visually impaired people in the company to help us.
But without sighted assistance it was totally impossible.

The point of this long story is that some technology is used really often in 
the sighted world.
And while you are right that we can't make our screen readers know 
everything non standard, we should at least do with known interactive 
content like Silverlight or Flash, when it is taken out of a web browser.
There must be a reason why JAWS can read PDF files (with Adobe Reader) like 
a web page.
But if it works for a browser or a mail client or a the mainstream PDF 
reader, surely it should be made possible to do it with the main web 
technologies which were there at the beginning of modern screen readers.
And since that the beginning I have never seen Flash Player (binary, not web 
object) support and no explanation why this is.
This were just examples of the often used and common technologies or 
programs.
And at least they should be usable with screen readers. 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Michael,

I'll freely admit I don't have all the answers here as my
understanding of how it all works is pretty basic at best. However,
what I can say is the primary problem with your assumptions is that
you have made some false conclusions on how it works that are false
and it has given you an unreasonable expectation that the problem is
easily resolved.

To begin with the main reason standards and standard controls are
important is because no two screen reader developers have to duplicate
the same work making an application accessible. Therefore the ideal
situation is one in which the application is written using all
standard controls and interfaces known to all screen readers. Whenever
a developer deviates from that standard a screen reader developer then
has to spend lots of time and money trying to make the application and
its custom controls work with the screen reader which is no trivial
task. Therefore the current accessibility paradigms that it is up to
the developer of the application to use standard controls and user
interfaces thus placing responsibility of access on the developer of
the program.

That is not such a bad thing. On Linux the GTK+ toolkit has been made
fully accessible, is tightly integrated with at-spi2, so in theory any
Linux application developer using GTK+ will have a reasonable amount
of access with Orca. On Mac OS X the standard graphics toolkit, Cocoa,
has been made accessible so any Mac application using Cocoa will work
with VoiceOver out of the box. Similar efforts are under way on
Windows with UI Automation and the Windows Foundation Classes. Bottom
line, these days accessibility frankly is not the job of the screen
reader, but is increasingly the responsibility of the application
developer using standard toolkits and controls.

However, as I understand your suggestion every screen reader should be
designed to support every possible non-standard control out there. The
big problem with that is simple. There isn't enough money or interest
in trying to support every custom non-standard control in existence.
Especially, given that we are a minority market, and the application
in question may only be of benefit to or will be used by a small
minority inside an existing minority. Therefore we are talking about a
titanic effort on the part of screen reader developers for little
money.

Besides you seem to have missed the obvious problem is that a custom
control is custom. It is something a screen reader is unlikely to know
what it is, and if a screen reader developer doesn't know it exists he
can't program the screen reader to handle that control. He would have
to be informed of the controls existence in order to support it, and
in a market where millions of custom controls are likely to exist it
is effectively impossible to support them all. Plus even if screen
reader A were able to support every custom control out there the same
work would have to be performed on screen reader B to have the exact
same support. Therefore the best and most ideal situation is one in
which the application uses standard controls  that are known to exist.

Cheers!

On 1/9/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Ok, I got that...
> But I think that since Windows was created, there were always developers of
>
> software who did not necessarily use standard controls or API
> communications.
> If this problem is technically that old, why does look it like (from the
> point of view from the end user of a screen reader) that the screen reader
> developers seem to be incapable of adding support for more non standard
> controls?
> I mean, I don't know how designing controls work.
> But non standard controls go back to the Windows 95 era.
> Seriously, Java, Shockwave formerly Macromedia Director or Flash are known
> technologies, right?
> If anyone (professional) developers can get access to parts of that
> technology, then there surely should be a way of adapting the screen reader
>
> to handle non standard controls, right?
> I mean we or our screen reader developers can't force everyone to solely use
>
> standard controls, even if Microsoft might like that or not.
> JAWS for example is one of the oldest commercial screen readers which still
>
> exists today.
> And there are lots of blind users who have to deal with non standard
> controls at work or at home.
> This problem is known.
> Obviously it would take a long time to make every control element
> accessible, that is surely true.
> But as I said, everyone knows for example what Flash or Silverlight or Java
>
> and a few other partially accessible are and that there might be a certain
> demand in making such things accessible.
>
> And about the Video Intercept drivers, how limited is its effectiveness if
> it (in theory) can get more data than the Windows API might give the screen
>
> reader for a certain application?
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Josh k

and that's fine you were not being rude you were simply stating facts as 
to what you would use if you want something more modern up to date and 
complex. and I agree. wordperfect, mega-dots and others like it are, for 
me, relligated to lets put the applications into the dos vm for 
something to play with, demo, and podcast about for something to do.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/8/2015 1:08 AM, shaun everiss wrote:
josh excuse me if I am rood but if I want something more complex I'd 
take its windows equivilant.
I don't need megadots and as for wordperfect its old anyway word can 
process its documents.


At 03:56 a.m. 8/01/2015, you wrote:
but if you want something more complex like mega-dots or word-perfect 
in dos you need a real dos screen reader.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/7/2015 9:42 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

No. Although, Dosemu is an easier solution that isn't the one I was
speaking of. For me the easiest solution to the Dos problem is to
install a 32-bit copy of Windows XP into VMWare and use that. Most Dos
stuff works fine with Jaws, NVDA, or Window-Eyes under XP so I see no
need to run Dos 6.2 etc under VMWare since so far XP does everything I
need it to do in a virtual machine.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Josh k  wrote:

is your easier solution dosemu under linux? the one you told me about
before?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com

will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Josh k

I just got wordperfect and megadots for something to play around with. 
not to use to do real work. If I want to do real work I'll use 
openoffice or microsoft word 2010 or 2013.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/8/2015 1:08 AM, shaun everiss wrote:
josh excuse me if I am rood but if I want something more complex I'd 
take its windows equivilant.
I don't need megadots and as for wordperfect its old anyway word can 
process its documents.


At 03:56 a.m. 8/01/2015, you wrote:
but if you want something more complex like mega-dots or word-perfect 
in dos you need a real dos screen reader.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/7/2015 9:42 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

No. Although, Dosemu is an easier solution that isn't the one I was
speaking of. For me the easiest solution to the Dos problem is to
install a 32-bit copy of Windows XP into VMWare and use that. Most Dos
stuff works fine with Jaws, NVDA, or Window-Eyes under XP so I see no
need to run Dos 6.2 etc under VMWare since so far XP does everything I
need it to do in a virtual machine.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Josh k  wrote:

is your easier solution dosemu under linux? the one you told me about
before?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com

will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Michael Gauler


Ok, I got that...
But I think that since Windows was created, there were always developers of 
software who did not necessarily use standard controls or API 
communications.
If this problem is technically that old, why does look it like (from the 
point of view from the end user of a screen reader) that the screen reader 
developers seem to be incapable of adding support for more non standard 
controls?

I mean, I don't know how designing controls work.
But non standard controls go back to the Windows 95 era.
Seriously, Java, Shockwave formerly Macromedia Director or Flash are known 
technologies, right?
If anyone (professional) developers can get access to parts of that 
technology, then there surely should be a way of adapting the screen reader 
to handle non standard controls, right?
I mean we or our screen reader developers can't force everyone to solely use 
standard controls, even if Microsoft might like that or not.
JAWS for example is one of the oldest commercial screen readers which still 
exists today.
And there are lots of blind users who have to deal with non standard 
controls at work or at home.

This problem is known.
Obviously it would take a long time to make every control element 
accessible, that is surely true.
But as I said, everyone knows for example what Flash or Silverlight or Java 
and a few other partially accessible are and that there might be a certain 
demand in making such things accessible.


And about the Video Intercept drivers, how limited is its effectiveness if 
it (in theory) can get more data than the Windows API might give the screen 
reader for a certain application? 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Shaun,

No, absolutely not. The reason being that SDL is itself the problem.
The way SDL displays text on the screen is at a very low level that
completely bypasses the Windows API etc right on by therefore there is
no way for the screen reader to determine what is on screen. It would
not be any different than creating an emulator using OpenGL,
Direct3D,etc because the text, and I use that term loosely here, is
rendered graphically rather than through standard Windows controls. As
long as Dosbox etc is outside of the standard accessibility chain it
will never be accessible.

Cheers!

On 1/9/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> I just had a crazy thought, if there was some way to have an sdl app
> that looked like a console or that was a windows console interface
> with dosbox would that work.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread shaun everiss

I just had a crazy thought, if there was some way to have an sdl app 
that looked like a console or that was a windows console interface 
with dosbox would that work.


At 01:55 p.m. 9/01/2015, you wrote:

Michael,

While I am not Thomas, I can take a stab at answering this question. 
It comes back to the technology being used. Dosbox and related Apps 
talk to the graphics hardware at a very low level.. Despite how it 
looks to the average user, they are not actually writing text as we 
understand it. The technology in question is called SDL, and it 
bypasses almost every operating system function in order to work. 
There is literally no text for the screen reader to intercept, as you say.
one of the benefits of this technology, for sighted people, is that 
it is possible for DOS box to work under multiple operating systems, 
such as Linux. The obvious drawback is that, at the moment, it is 
literally impossible for any screen reader to read anything from it.


It is difficult to explain this kind of concept to the uninitiated. 
If there is anything anybody needs clarification on, please ask.

Bestt,
Zack.
> On Jan 8, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Michael Gauler  wrote:
>
> Hi Thomas,
> I would like to ask a question about the problems with such 
programs as the mentioned Dosbox.
> Why is it so difficult for a screen reader to get anything from 
such a program?
> Shouldn't (in theory) a screen reader be able to get all the 
information on the screen as it is given from a graphic card to the 
screen or whatever component actually puts anything on the screen?
> If this is not true, what purpose had such things as Video 
Intercept for JAWS up to Windows 7?
> If I have a program which in theory has access to all (graphical) 
information which is currently displayed on the screen, shouldn't a 
screen reader be able to read more things as long as you are not 
running a full virtual machine or if you are not playing some kind 
of video where you have constantly changing images on screen?
> I mean some text DOS games are not that graphically complex like 
a video or some high end animations of mainstream games.

> And while we are at it, Dosbox surely wasn't developed Yesterday.
> This brings up the question why no screen reader developer seems 
to have found a way to read such programs like Dosbox in general.

>
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread shaun everiss

josh excuse me if I am rood but if I want something more complex I'd 
take its windows equivilant.
I don't need megadots and as for wordperfect its old anyway word can 
process its documents.


At 03:56 a.m. 8/01/2015, you wrote:
but if you want something more complex like mega-dots or 
word-perfect in dos you need a real dos screen reader.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/7/2015 9:42 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

No. Although, Dosemu is an easier solution that isn't the one I was
speaking of. For me the easiest solution to the Dos problem is to
install a 32-bit copy of Windows XP into VMWare and use that. Most Dos
stuff works fine with Jaws, NVDA, or Window-Eyes under XP so I see no
need to run Dos 6.2 etc under VMWare since so far XP does everything I
need it to do in a virtual machine.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Josh k  wrote:

is your easier solution dosemu under linux? the one you told me about
before?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread shaun everiss

as I understand it dosbox has some issue with the way it outputs its 
data to screen.
it tries to emulate dos what we need is a dos emulater which runs 
like a console app.


At 01:34 p.m. 9/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Thomas,
I would like to ask a question about the problems with such programs 
as the mentioned Dosbox.
Why is it so difficult for a screen reader to get anything from such 
a program?
Shouldn't (in theory) a screen reader be able to get all the 
information on the screen as it is given from a graphic card to the 
screen or whatever component actually puts anything on the screen?
If this is not true, what purpose had such things as Video Intercept 
for JAWS up to Windows 7?
If I have a program which in theory has access to all (graphical) 
information which is currently displayed on the screen, shouldn't a 
screen reader be able to read more things as long as you are not 
running a full virtual machine or if you are not playing some kind 
of video where you have constantly changing images on screen?
I mean some text DOS games are not that graphically complex like a 
video or some high end animations of mainstream games.

And while we are at it, Dosbox surely wasn't developed Yesterday.
This brings up the question why no screen reader developer seems to 
have found a way to read such programs like Dosbox in general.


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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Jacob Kruger


espeak.py, line 5:

 _espeak.setVoiceByLanguage("en")

and, added in following on line 6:

 _espeak.setVoiceAndVariant(voice=None, variant="klatt4")

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



hey jacob what is that line that changes espeak variants again?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/4/2015 5:45 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Shaun, see my other reply to Thomas -  - was talking about 
launching the VMWare instance of dos 6.22, firing up windows 3.1 inside 
it, and then launching that 16 bit version of dos from a terminal window, 
operating through the windows driver system, etc.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the issue jakob is 64 bit windows will not run 16 bit dos games or 16 
bit anything because 64 bit cpus can't process 16 bit data!
Ms took dos emulation out of windows 64 bit which is why at least on the 
systems with 4gb or less the maximum the 32 bit standard can handle that 
I am running a 32 bit os.

dos games run to an extent with nvda its not perfect but they do run.
I have 7 though so who knows.
as security gets more and more harder to handle some of these older 
programs may not run as well as they used to.


At 10:18 p.m. 4/01/2015, you wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the 
dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within 
there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message ----- From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from 
just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the 
first time, and then on second try, started trying to work, but 
seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and launched windows 
first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and then 
launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound effects, 
etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to double 
check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight stutter 
effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be the way 
it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware overload, 
or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window 
eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within windows, 
but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on 
screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and 
wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it 
and see?



follow m

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-09 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Michael,

Well, the answer to your question requires a bit of in depth knowledge
of how accessibility on your system works, but I'll try and boil it
down to something a common person can understand without a great deal
of technical knowledge.

To begin with it might be helpful to understand what a screen reader
is and what it is not. A lot of screen reader users falsely assume
that their screen reader somehow reads the screen and speaks aloud
what it sees on screen at the time. That isn't really how it works. In
truth your screen reader communicates with the operating system in
particular with the Windows API, MSAA, and UI Automation among other
things to determine the identity of what is on the screen at any given
time. It then speaks aloud whatever information it has managed to
discover is on the screen through the various APIs.

It all works for the most part because Microsoft has created several
standard Windows controls that expose their status and identity
through one of a number of APIs. Therefore the way your screen reader
usually works is it asks the Windows API, MSAA, or UI Automation what
is on the screen, and then one of those APIs will report what
information if any has been passed onto it via your application. If
the program in question uses standard Windows controls no problem. The
API and your screen reader knows what is being shown and it gets
spoken. However, if someone chooses to use a non-standard control, an
alternative graphics toolkit, or display something on the screen in
any other way than through the standard Windows controls the
application isn't exposing any information about what is on screen to
the various accessibility APIs thus your screen reader hasn't a clue
as to what is being shown which brings us to the problem with Dosbox.

Dosbox and various other emulators like it display stuff on the screen
at a very low level bypassing all the standard Windows controls and
any accessibility APIs like MSAA or UI Automation. Dosbox uses a
custom graphics library that has absolutely no accessibility, does not
engage in two-way communication with your screen reader, thus as far
as the screen reader knows the screen is blank or simply unknown. So
even though you might have a game that is purely text on screen the
emulator, Dosbox, is only displaying a graphical representation of the
text and is not passing the contents of the screen onto the Windows
API, MSAA, UI Automation, or any other API that your screen reader
relies upon for information as to what is being shown on screen. Thus
the screen reader can't read what it doesn't know about.

About the only way at present for a Windows screen reader to read what
is on screen in Dosbox is to perform OCR on it. Jaws, NVDA, and others
now have the ability to take a picture of the screen, to perform OCR
on that picture, and then read the contents of the screen. While that
will work it is slow and clunky which makes using Dosbox inefficient.

Now, I am sure someone is about to ask about the video intercept
drivers Jaws, Window-Eyes, etc use. Those are a fallback position for
screen readers in case the Windows accessibility APIs fail. It is
basically an attempt to store the state of the screen in a buffer and
brute force determine what is being shown on screen. It is very slow
and inefficient and in the end suffers from the same sort of problem
as the other methods of determining what is on screen. Dosbox uses
non-standard graphics libraries, non standard controls, and Jaws and
other screen readers can't tell you what is on screen if it doesn't
know what sort of control it is looking at. Therefore as long as
Dosbox and other emulators use non-standard controls and do not expose
what is on screen there is no realistic way for your screen reader to
read the screen.

Cheers!

On 1/8/15, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> I would like to ask a question about the problems with such programs as the
>
> mentioned Dosbox.
> Why is it so difficult for a screen reader to get anything from such a
> program?
> Shouldn't (in theory) a screen reader be able to get all the information on
>
> the screen as it is given from a graphic card to the screen or whatever
> component actually puts anything on the screen?
> If this is not true, what purpose had such things as Video Intercept for
> JAWS up to Windows 7?
> If I have a program which in theory has access to all (graphical)
> information which is currently displayed on the screen, shouldn't a screen
> reader be able to read more things as long as you are not running a full
> virtual machine or if you are not playing some kind of video where you have
>
> constantly changing images on screen?
> I mean some text DOS games are not that graphically complex like a video or
>
> some high end animations of mainstream games.
> And while we are at it, Dosbox surely wasn't developed Yesterday.
> This brings up the question why no screen reader developer seems to have
> found a way to read such programs like Dosb

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-08 Thread Zachary Kline

Michael,

While I am not Thomas, I can take a stab at answering this question. It comes 
back to the technology being used. Dosbox and related Apps talk to the graphics 
hardware at a very low level.. Despite how it looks to the average user, they 
are not actually writing text as we understand it. The technology in question 
is called SDL, and it bypasses almost every operating system function in order 
to work. There is literally no text for the screen reader to intercept, as you 
say.
one of the benefits of this technology, for sighted people, is that it is 
possible for DOS box to work under multiple operating systems, such as Linux. 
The obvious drawback is that, at the moment, it is literally impossible for any 
screen reader to read anything from it.

It is difficult to explain this kind of concept to the uninitiated. If there is 
anything anybody needs clarification on, please ask.
Bestt,
Zack.
> On Jan 8, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Michael Gauler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Thomas,
> I would like to ask a question about the problems with such programs as the 
> mentioned Dosbox.
> Why is it so difficult for a screen reader to get anything from such a 
> program?
> Shouldn't (in theory) a screen reader be able to get all the information on 
> the screen as it is given from a graphic card to the screen or whatever 
> component actually puts anything on the screen?
> If this is not true, what purpose had such things as Video Intercept for JAWS 
> up to Windows 7?
> If I have a program which in theory has access to all (graphical) information 
> which is currently displayed on the screen, shouldn't a screen reader be able 
> to read more things as long as you are not running a full virtual machine or 
> if you are not playing some kind of video where you have constantly changing 
> images on screen?
> I mean some text DOS games are not that graphically complex like a video or 
> some high end animations of mainstream games.
> And while we are at it, Dosbox surely wasn't developed Yesterday.
> This brings up the question why no screen reader developer seems to have 
> found a way to read such programs like Dosbox in general. 
> 
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> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-08 Thread Michael Gauler


Hi Thomas,
I would like to ask a question about the problems with such programs as the 
mentioned Dosbox.
Why is it so difficult for a screen reader to get anything from such a 
program?
Shouldn't (in theory) a screen reader be able to get all the information on 
the screen as it is given from a graphic card to the screen or whatever 
component actually puts anything on the screen?
If this is not true, what purpose had such things as Video Intercept for 
JAWS up to Windows 7?
If I have a program which in theory has access to all (graphical) 
information which is currently displayed on the screen, shouldn't a screen 
reader be able to read more things as long as you are not running a full 
virtual machine or if you are not playing some kind of video where you have 
constantly changing images on screen?
I mean some text DOS games are not that graphically complex like a video or 
some high end animations of mainstream games.

And while we are at it, Dosbox surely wasn't developed Yesterday.
This brings up the question why no screen reader developer seems to have 
found a way to read such programs like Dosbox in general. 



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Changed the code of line 6, and then compiled it using pyInstaller module's 
script have here since it's one of the multiple compiling tools I try out 
when working in python itself.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



how did you compile it to use klatt4 variant?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/7/2015 2:44 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
I just copied espeak-data and espeak.dll over from current 
NVDA\synthDrivers path, and still works, and compiled it with instruction 
to use klatt4 variant?


Have updated zip file on my dropbox, but, you can, in meantime also just 
try replacing espeak-data and espeak.dll in the unzipped folder.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


it would sound better with an updated espeak.dll from latest test I 
think, perhaps using one of the klatt variants for better 
understabdability.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/7/2015 9:08 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Shaun - hadn't actually thought of it before, and only issue is you 
won't be able to change voices/voice variants, unless gets tweaked to 
handle additional command line arguments, but, HYG - compiled emu.py 
into single executable file for running on windows machines, and it 
should have included all required libraries, etc. etc.- give it a try - 
it worked here now to run the virtual BNS - unzip, and from command 
line execute:


emu.exe com9

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13327195/bnsExecutable.zip

The only two additional files/bits of file structure in there, aside 
from compiled, stand-alone executable are the espeak-data folder with 
the voice data in it, and espeak.dll.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


hmmm it occurs to me josh that if the vertual bns were compiled with 
all libs we shouldn't need python at all!



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


how did you compile it to use klatt4 variant?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 2:44 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
I just copied espeak-data and espeak.dll over from current 
NVDA\synthDrivers path, and still works, and compiled it with 
instruction to use klatt4 variant?


Have updated zip file on my dropbox, but, you can, in meantime also 
just try replacing espeak-data and espeak.dll in the unzipped folder.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


it would sound better with an updated espeak.dll from latest test I 
think, perhaps using one of the klatt variants for better 
understabdability.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/7/2015 9:08 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Shaun - hadn't actually thought of it before, and only issue is you 
won't be able to change voices/voice variants, unless gets tweaked 
to handle additional command line arguments, but, HYG - compiled 
emu.py into single executable file for running on windows machines, 
and it should have included all required libraries, etc. etc.- give 
it a try - it worked here now to run the virtual BNS - unzip, and 
from command line execute:


emu.exe com9

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13327195/bnsExecutable.zip

The only two additional files/bits of file structure in there, aside 
from compiled, stand-alone executable are the espeak-data folder 
with the voice data in it, and espeak.dll.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


hmmm it occurs to me josh that if the vertual bns were compiled 
with all libs we shouldn't need python at all!



---
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the list,

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list,

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

I just copied espeak-data and espeak.dll over from current NVDA\synthDrivers 
path, and still works, and compiled it with instruction to use klatt4 
variant?


Have updated zip file on my dropbox, but, you can, in meantime also just try 
replacing espeak-data and espeak.dll in the unzipped folder.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


it would sound better with an updated espeak.dll from latest test I think, 
perhaps using one of the klatt variants for better understabdability.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/7/2015 9:08 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Shaun - hadn't actually thought of it before, and only issue is you won't 
be able to change voices/voice variants, unless gets tweaked to handle 
additional command line arguments, but, HYG - compiled emu.py into single 
executable file for running on windows machines, and it should have 
included all required libraries, etc. etc.- give it a try - it worked 
here now to run the virtual BNS - unzip, and from command line execute:


emu.exe com9

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13327195/bnsExecutable.zip

The only two additional files/bits of file structure in there, aside from 
compiled, stand-alone executable are the espeak-data folder with the 
voice data in it, and espeak.dll.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


hmmm it occurs to me josh that if the vertual bns were compiled with all 
libs we shouldn't need python at all!



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

still would xp support a native dos screen reader? because xp does not 
have real dos in it.


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On 1/7/2015 11:20 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

I realize that. I was speaking of running XP in a virtual machine not natively.

Cheers!


On 1/7/15, Josh k  wrote:

because my computer is windows7 64bit.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Josh,

I feel pretty confident if you wanted to you could get one to work in
XP. This concept that there is no "real Dos" is not true. As a matter
of fact Windows XP has a command line, similar to Dos, but it is
buried under the graphical interface and booting directly into the
command line is tricky because there is a special screen you have to
go into in order to change the boot configuration to bypass the
graphical user interface and go into the command line interface.
However, that shouldn't be necessary to run a Dos screen reader under
XP. I don't have specifics off the top of my head, but I have heard of
it being done before.

Cheers!

On 1/7/15, Josh k  wrote:
> as far as i know dos screen readers don't work in a windows xp command
> prompt because there is no real dos there.
>
> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
> will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Josh,

I realize that. I was speaking of running XP in a virtual machine not natively.

Cheers!


On 1/7/15, Josh k  wrote:
> because my computer is windows7 64bit.
>
> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
> will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

as far as i know dos screen readers don't work in a windows xp command 
prompt because there is no real dos there.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 10:01 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

Not necessarily. If you modify the default.jss file in Jaws it works
pretty good with Werdperfect 5.1 and Megadots. The thing is older
versions of Jaws had Dos support commented out, and if someone removes
the comments, recompiles the scripts, etc one can go pretty far with
those older apps.

Besides if you really want a Dos screen reader why not run one under
XP. I assume you can use com0com, the BNS emulator, etc just the same
in XP as you could have in the way you are now.

Cheers!


On 1/7/15, Josh k  wrote:

but if you want something more complex like mega-dots or word-perfect in
dos you need a real dos screen reader.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


because my computer is windows7 64bit.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 10:01 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

Not necessarily. If you modify the default.jss file in Jaws it works
pretty good with Werdperfect 5.1 and Megadots. The thing is older
versions of Jaws had Dos support commented out, and if someone removes
the comments, recompiles the scripts, etc one can go pretty far with
those older apps.

Besides if you really want a Dos screen reader why not run one under
XP. I assume you can use com0com, the BNS emulator, etc just the same
in XP as you could have in the way you are now.

Cheers!


On 1/7/15, Josh k  wrote:

but if you want something more complex like mega-dots or word-perfect in
dos you need a real dos screen reader.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

In the main application/icon grouping window of windows 3.1, there's an icon 
called MS Dos prompt, so, yes, that's it - same effect as how, on windows 7, 
I often bring up run dialogue, and type in cmd.exe...


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



in windows3.1 there is an icon called dos prompt its that one, right?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/4/2015 4:18 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos 
prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, 
make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before 
running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or something 
like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from just the 
command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the first time, 
and then on second try, started trying to work, but seemed to lock up, 
but, when then rebooted, and launched windows first, and then ASAP from 
within that ms dos terminal, and then launched tenpin, and chose sound 
card, the music, and sound effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a 
couple of bad ball rolls to double check, and sound effects, music 
clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight stutter 
effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be the way it 
would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware overload, or 
something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message ----- From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos games 
like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window 
eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within windows, but 
ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on screen, and 
screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and wouldn't know what 
to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and 
see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal 
window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless 
you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - 
primary issue there when tried that out a bit was their control 
panels interfering with each other since they both seem to get 
invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop each other from 
operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. 
but sound blaster in windows.


follo

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


hey jacob what is that line that changes espeak variants again?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 5:45 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Shaun, see my other reply to Thomas -  - was talking about 
launching the VMWare instance of dos 6.22, firing up windows 3.1 
inside it, and then launching that 16 bit version of dos from a 
terminal window, operating through the windows driver system, etc.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the issue jakob is 64 bit windows will not run 16 bit dos games or 16 
bit anything because 64 bit cpus can't process 16 bit data!
Ms took dos emulation out of windows 64 bit which is why at least on 
the systems with 4gb or less the maximum the 32 bit standard can 
handle that I am running a 32 bit os.

dos games run to an extent with nvda its not perfect but they do run.
I have 7 though so who knows.
as security gets more and more harder to handle some of these older 
programs may not run as well as they used to.


At 10:18 p.m. 4/01/2015, you wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the 
dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within 
there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt 
option which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from 
just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the 
first time, and then on second try, started trying to work, but 
seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and launched windows 
first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and then 
launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound 
effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to 
double check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight 
stutter effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr 
be the way it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual 
hardware overload, or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched 
from within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via 
window eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within 
windows, but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping 
up on screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, 
and wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it 
and see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos 
terminal window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you 
unless you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using 
window eyes - primary issue there when tried that out a bit 
was their control panels interfering with each other si

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Josh,

Not necessarily. If you modify the default.jss file in Jaws it works
pretty good with Werdperfect 5.1 and Megadots. The thing is older
versions of Jaws had Dos support commented out, and if someone removes
the comments, recompiles the scripts, etc one can go pretty far with
those older apps.

Besides if you really want a Dos screen reader why not run one under
XP. I assume you can use com0com, the BNS emulator, etc just the same
in XP as you could have in the way you are now.

Cheers!

On 1/7/15, Josh k  wrote:
> but if you want something more complex like mega-dots or word-perfect in
> dos you need a real dos screen reader.
>
> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
> will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

like i said. tell espeak test version to use a klatt variant and you 
will basically have your keynote gold back. also get espeak source 
modify intonation and recompile using espeakedit and you can come even 
closer.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 9:45 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

Same here. The Keynote Gold was unique. Although, the voice was fairly
robotic I really liked it, and would love to have one to play with.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Josh k  wrote:

I really miss the keynote gold.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

but if you want something more complex like mega-dots or word-perfect in 
dos you need a real dos screen reader.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 9:42 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

No. Although, Dosemu is an easier solution that isn't the one I was
speaking of. For me the easiest solution to the Dos problem is to
install a 32-bit copy of Windows XP into VMWare and use that. Most Dos
stuff works fine with Jaws, NVDA, or Window-Eyes under XP so I see no
need to run Dos 6.2 etc under VMWare since so far XP does everything I
need it to do in a virtual machine.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Josh k  wrote:

is your easier solution dosemu under linux? the one you told me about
before?


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will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

a few? there were a whole whole lot back in the day. definitely worth 
it. also its worth it to preserve our history of accessibility or it 
will be lost to time.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 9:25 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Shaun,

Well, first of all Sigwin is not Linux. It is basically nothing more
than the Bash shell,a few compilers, and other tools ported to
Windows. Its not at all the same thing as running a full blown Linux
OS so right there is your first problem with your idea.

Hypothetically speaking, though, if someone wanted to run Dosemu in
Sigwin they could. They'd just have to port it to Sigwin, compile it,
and then use it to run Dos games etc. That seems to me to be a lot of
fooling around just to make a few old Dos apps and games work under
Windows. So I don't think it is really worth it.

Cheers!


On 1/5/15, shaun everiss  wrote:

tom what would happen if you ran everything under cygwin I know thats
a lot of messing round, but you could at least run linux under
windows, I have heard about the co linux standard dristros a while
back if one of those could run under windows I could in theory handle
both oses maybe not at maximmum performance but it would work I guess.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

it would sound better with an updated espeak.dll from latest test I 
think, perhaps using one of the klatt variants for better 
understabdability.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 9:08 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Shaun - hadn't actually thought of it before, and only issue is you 
won't be able to change voices/voice variants, unless gets tweaked to 
handle additional command line arguments, but, HYG - compiled emu.py 
into single executable file for running on windows machines, and it 
should have included all required libraries, etc. etc.- give it a try 
- it worked here now to run the virtual BNS - unzip, and from command 
line execute:


emu.exe com9

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13327195/bnsExecutable.zip

The only two additional files/bits of file structure in there, aside 
from compiled, stand-alone executable are the espeak-data folder with 
the voice data in it, and espeak.dll.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


hmmm it occurs to me josh that if the vertual bns were compiled with 
all libs we shouldn't need python at all!



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


to kill asap hit control backslash then control q to quit asap.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/7/2015 8:51 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

Nope, don't have call to s.bat in autoexec.bat.

Would also have guessed that there'd be some or other command line 
argument to in fact kill ASAP after it had been launched, but, not too 
sure.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


oh so asap is not in your autoexec.bat file then? ok then I'll try 
that I'll remove it from my autoexec.bat file and start it manually 
after I run windows and go into dos prompt from windows then.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

the latest test espeak from espeak.sf.net/test/latest.html and if you 
use it with klatt4 it sounds very similar to keynote gold. when you 
install it just enter in one of the language boxes

en-us+klatt4

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/5/2015 12:25 AM, shaun everiss wrote:

so do I sadly I don't have one of those anymore.

At 09:35 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

I really miss the keynote gold.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site

On 1/3/2015 4:34 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
well fact is on old xp I had 2 synths a keynote gold and a dectalk 
the keynote worked fine when accessing com ports but the dectalk did 
stupid things it would access but not relyably and if it did there 
was a 50% chance it would refuse to even work fully at all with 
mixed results.
In most cases windows would not start at all forcing me to reformat 
because it wouldn't boot.
My theory is that windows security because of the way it manages its 
own devices really doesn't like anything accessing  hardware 
directly without a driver or something calling the access.
I never found out what it was all about though because the synth in 
question broke.
While I am a dos junkey all the software I'd need just to set up a 
vm on old vm software is not worth the time I'd spend playing it.

At 11:39 p.m. 3/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!

On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox 
can't hook

>
> up to virtual com ports, etc.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Josh,

Same here. The Keynote Gold was unique. Although, the voice was fairly
robotic I really liked it, and would love to have one to play with.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Josh k  wrote:
> I really miss the keynote gold.
>
> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
> will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Josh,

No. Although, Dosemu is an easier solution that isn't the one I was
speaking of. For me the easiest solution to the Dos problem is to
install a 32-bit copy of Windows XP into VMWare and use that. Most Dos
stuff works fine with Jaws, NVDA, or Window-Eyes under XP so I see no
need to run Dos 6.2 etc under VMWare since so far XP does everything I
need it to do in a virtual machine.

Cheers!

On 1/4/15, Josh k  wrote:
> is your easier solution dosemu under linux? the one you told me about
> before?
>
>
> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
> will find facebook site

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Shaun,

That wouldn't work. All the NVDA Controller Client does is allows a
program to speak text or display text via braille using NVDA. In
short, it is basically just another synthesizer. If a person needs
screen review commands as in games and other programs in Dosbox they
still would not have that functionality because the screen reader
would have no idea what is on the screen. It would be waiting for text
to be sent to Controller Client which of course won't be forth coming
since those apps do not have Controller Client support. Since Dosbox
is not a screen reader or have screen review commands don't expect it
to send that info on to NVDA either.

Cheers!

On 1/5/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> hmmm the easiest way would to add in nvda controler support or
> something like universal speech or one of the intigrated screen
> reader libraries.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Hi Shaun,

Well, first of all Sigwin is not Linux. It is basically nothing more
than the Bash shell,a few compilers, and other tools ported to
Windows. Its not at all the same thing as running a full blown Linux
OS so right there is your first problem with your idea.

Hypothetically speaking, though, if someone wanted to run Dosemu in
Sigwin they could. They'd just have to port it to Sigwin, compile it,
and then use it to run Dos games etc. That seems to me to be a lot of
fooling around just to make a few old Dos apps and games work under
Windows. So I don't think it is really worth it.

Cheers!

On 1/5/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> tom what would happen if you ran everything under cygwin I know thats
> a lot of messing round, but you could at least run linux under
> windows, I have heard about the co linux standard dristros a while
> back if one of those could run under windows I could in theory handle
> both oses maybe not at maximmum performance but it would work I guess.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Shaun - hadn't actually thought of it before, and only issue is you won't be 
able to change voices/voice variants, unless gets tweaked to handle 
additional command line arguments, but, HYG - compiled emu.py into single 
executable file for running on windows machines, and it should have included 
all required libraries, etc. etc.- give it a try - it worked here now to run 
the virtual BNS - unzip, and from command line execute:


emu.exe com9

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13327195/bnsExecutable.zip

The only two additional files/bits of file structure in there, aside from 
compiled, stand-alone executable are the espeak-data folder with the voice 
data in it, and espeak.dll.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "shaun everiss" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


hmmm it occurs to me josh that if the vertual bns were compiled with all 
libs we shouldn't need python at all!



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


Nope, don't have call to s.bat in autoexec.bat.

Would also have guessed that there'd be some or other command line argument 
to in fact kill ASAP after it had been launched, but, not too sure.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


oh so asap is not in your autoexec.bat file then? ok then I'll try that 
I'll remove it from my autoexec.bat file and start it manually after I run 
windows and go into dos prompt from windows then.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

hmm how do you set dosbox for that, I will get and try both salutions later on

At 09:48 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:
braille n speak server you set up your dos screen reader for a 
braille n speak on com1 set up dosbox for a realPort and direct-port 
as com8 both com8 run your screen reader all com1 traffic gets piped 
to the braille n speak speech server running in a windows7 or 
windows8 command prompt and voila you have speech through espeak but 
your dos screen reader either in vmware or virtualbox or dosbox 
thinks its using a braille n speak on com1.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 12:52 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
I agree tom its why I have a 32 bit os with 4gb ram but this may be 
my last 32 bit os.
Sadly while I have a linux machine pulling out another unit to play 
dos games when I have only the space for 1 unit is just not going 
to work till I get something like a vm machine which doesn't run 
vms slowly as heck.
I think our best hope is dosbox or something like it in theory we 
should be able   to run sound based dos games as long as we know 
what to push and on exiting the emulator closes itself but screenreaders hmmm.
A lot of the older ones never used software speech, and we will 
need a software speech emulator to run it all.

At 12:32 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!

On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos
> prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make

>
> sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there 
before running

> game.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

hmmm it occurs to me josh that if the vertual bns were compiled with 
all libs we shouldn't need python at all!


At 09:51 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

oh yes virtual braille n speak server is open source python.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/4/2015 2:33 PM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Shaun,

Well, integrating Espeak itself wouldn't be hard. The problem is that
all  you have is TTS support, but still no way to review the screen.
Thus there needs to still be a screen reader component to make it
work.

On 1/3/15, shaun everiss  wrote:

how hard would it be to just intigrate espeak its already a dll its
not good quality but its on linux distros and nvda and sapi so it
can't be that hard.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

so do I sadly I don't have one of those anymore.

At 09:35 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

I really miss the keynote gold.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site

On 1/3/2015 4:34 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
well fact is on old xp I had 2 synths a keynote gold and a dectalk 
the keynote worked fine when accessing com ports but the dectalk 
did stupid things it would access but not relyably and if it did 
there was a 50% chance it would refuse to even work fully at all 
with mixed results.
In most cases windows would not start at all forcing me to reformat 
because it wouldn't boot.
My theory is that windows security because of the way it manages 
its own devices really doesn't like anything accessing  hardware 
directly without a driver or something calling the access.
I never found out what it was all about though because the synth in 
question broke.
While I am a dos junkey all the software I'd need just to set up a 
vm on old vm software is not worth the time I'd spend playing it.

At 11:39 p.m. 3/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!

On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, 
dosbox can't hook

>
> up to virtual com ports, etc.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

tom what would happen if you ran everything under cygwin I know thats 
a lot of messing round, but you could at least run linux under 
windows, I have heard about the co linux standard dristros a while 
back if one of those could run under windows I could in theory handle 
both oses maybe not at maximmum performance but it would work I guess.


At 09:42 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

is your easier solution dosemu under linux? the one you told me about before?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/4/2015 6:32 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:

Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos
prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, make

sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before running
game.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Shaun, see my other reply to Thomas -  - was talking about launching 
the VMWare instance of dos 6.22, firing up windows 3.1 inside it, and then 
launching that 16 bit version of dos from a terminal window, operating 
through the windows driver system, etc.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "shaun everiss" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the issue jakob is 64 bit windows will not run 16 bit dos games or 16 bit 
anything because 64 bit cpus can't process 16 bit data!
Ms took dos emulation out of windows 64 bit which is why at least on the 
systems with 4gb or less the maximum the 32 bit standard can handle that I 
am running a 32 bit os.

dos games run to an extent with nvda its not perfect but they do run.
I have 7 though so who knows.
as security gets more and more harder to handle some of these older 
programs may not run as well as they used to.


At 10:18 p.m. 4/01/2015, you wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos 
prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, 
make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before 
running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or something 
like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from just the command 
prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the first time, and then on 
second try, started trying to work, but seemed to lock up, but, when 
then rebooted, and launched windows first, and then ASAP from within 
that ms dos terminal, and then launched tenpin, and chose sound card, 
the music, and sound effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of 
bad ball rolls to double check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all 
seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight stutter 
effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be the way it 
would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware overload, or 
something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos games 
like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window eyes, 
and then use the command prompt window from within windows, but ASAP 
only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on screen, and 
screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and wouldn't know what to 
try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and 
see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal 
window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless 
you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - 
primary issue there when tried that out a bit was their control 
panels interfering with each other since they both seem to get 
invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop each other from 
operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

hmmm the easiest way would to add in nvda controler support or 
something like universal speech or one of the intigrated screen 
reader libraries.


At 08:33 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Shaun,

Well, integrating Espeak itself wouldn't be hard. The problem is that
all  you have is TTS support, but still no way to review the screen.
Thus there needs to still be a screen reader component to make it
work.

On 1/3/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> how hard would it be to just intigrate espeak its already a dll its
> not good quality but its on linux distros and nvda and sapi so it
> can't be that hard.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
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---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

and that is why we have to use vmware player or virtualbox to play the 
old games in emulated old systems.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 12:42 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
the issue jakob is 64 bit windows will not run 16 bit dos games or 16 
bit anything because 64 bit cpus can't process 16 bit data!
Ms took dos emulation out of windows 64 bit which is why at least on 
the systems with 4gb or less the maximum the 32 bit standard can 
handle that I am running a 32 bit os.

dos games run to an extent with nvda its not perfect but they do run.
I have 7 though so who knows.
as security gets more and more harder to handle some of these older 
programs may not run as well as they used to.


At 10:18 p.m. 4/01/2015, you wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the 
dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within 
there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from 
just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the 
first time, and then on second try, started trying to work, but 
seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and launched windows 
first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and then 
launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound 
effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to 
double check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight 
stutter effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr 
be the way it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual 
hardware overload, or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window 
eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within windows, 
but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on 
screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and 
wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it 
and see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos 
terminal window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you 
unless you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using 
window eyes - primary issue there when tried that out a bit was 
their control panels interfering with each other since they 
both seem to get invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they 
stop each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect,

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


its the only way I can play the pinochle card game is in a virtual ms-dos.

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 12:42 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
the issue jakob is 64 bit windows will not run 16 bit dos games or 16 
bit anything because 64 bit cpus can't process 16 bit data!
Ms took dos emulation out of windows 64 bit which is why at least on 
the systems with 4gb or less the maximum the 32 bit standard can 
handle that I am running a 32 bit os.

dos games run to an extent with nvda its not perfect but they do run.
I have 7 though so who knows.
as security gets more and more harder to handle some of these older 
programs may not run as well as they used to.


At 10:18 p.m. 4/01/2015, you wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the 
dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within 
there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from 
just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the 
first time, and then on second try, started trying to work, but 
seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and launched windows 
first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and then 
launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound 
effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to 
double check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight 
stutter effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr 
be the way it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual 
hardware overload, or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window 
eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within windows, 
but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on 
screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and 
wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it 
and see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos 
terminal window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you 
unless you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using 
window eyes - primary issue there when tried that out a bit was 
their control panels interfering with each other since they 
both seem to get invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they 
stop each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in 
dos. bu

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

oh so asap is not in your autoexec.bat file then? ok then I'll try that 
I'll remove it from my autoexec.bat file and start it manually after I 
run windows and go into dos prompt from windows then.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 4:18 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the 
dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within 
there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from 
just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the 
first time, and then on second try, started trying to work, but 
seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and launched windows 
first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and then 
launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound effects, 
etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to double 
check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight 
stutter effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be 
the way it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware 
overload, or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window 
eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within windows, 
but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on 
screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and 
wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

----- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it 
and see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos 
terminal window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you 
unless you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using 
window eyes - primary issue there when tried that out a bit was 
their control panels interfering with each other since they both 
seem to get invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop 
each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. 
but sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing 
hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these 
virtual
com ports. That is why I think gettin

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


in windows3.1 there is an icon called dos prompt its that one, right?

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 4:18 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the 
dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within 
there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from 
just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the 
first time, and then on second try, started trying to work, but 
seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and launched windows 
first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and then 
launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound effects, 
etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to double 
check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight 
stutter effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be 
the way it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware 
overload, or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window 
eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within windows, 
but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on 
screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and 
wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it 
and see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos 
terminal window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you 
unless you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using 
window eyes - primary issue there when tried that out a bit was 
their control panels interfering with each other since they both 
seem to get invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop 
each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."


- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. 
but sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
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On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing 
hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these 
virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos 
is going

to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it'

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


oh yes virtual braille n speak server is open source python.

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will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 2:33 PM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Shaun,

Well, integrating Espeak itself wouldn't be hard. The problem is that
all  you have is TTS support, but still no way to review the screen.
Thus there needs to still be a screen reader component to make it
work.

On 1/3/15, shaun everiss  wrote:

how hard would it be to just intigrate espeak its already a dll its
not good quality but its on linux distros and nvda and sapi so it
can't be that hard.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


here you all go here is the virtual braille n speak server.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/cfn7wz


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On 1/4/2015 2:33 PM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Shaun,

Well, integrating Espeak itself wouldn't be hard. The problem is that
all  you have is TTS support, but still no way to review the screen.
Thus there needs to still be a screen reader component to make it
work.

On 1/3/15, shaun everiss  wrote:

how hard would it be to just intigrate espeak its already a dll its
not good quality but its on linux distros and nvda and sapi so it
can't be that hard.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

braille n speak server you set up your dos screen reader for a braille n 
speak on com1 set up dosbox for a realPort and direct-port as com8 both 
com8 run your screen reader all com1 traffic gets piped to the braille n 
speak speech server running in a windows7 or windows8 command prompt and 
voila you have speech through espeak but your dos screen reader either 
in vmware or virtualbox or dosbox thinks its using a braille n speak on 
com1.

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On 1/4/2015 12:52 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
I agree tom its why I have a 32 bit os with 4gb ram but this may be my 
last 32 bit os.
Sadly while I have a linux machine pulling out another unit to play 
dos games when I have only the space for 1 unit is just not going to 
work till I get something like a vm machine which doesn't run vms 
slowly as heck.
I think our best hope is dosbox or something like it in theory we 
should be able   to run sound based dos games as long as we know what 
to push and on exiting the emulator closes itself but screenreaders hmmm.
A lot of the older ones never used software speech, and we will need a 
software speech emulator to run it all.

At 12:32 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!

On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in 
the dos
> prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make

>
> sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before 
running

> game.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

we already have software speech emulator. its the braille n speak speech 
server.

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will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 12:52 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
I agree tom its why I have a 32 bit os with 4gb ram but this may be my 
last 32 bit os.
Sadly while I have a linux machine pulling out another unit to play 
dos games when I have only the space for 1 unit is just not going to 
work till I get something like a vm machine which doesn't run vms 
slowly as heck.
I think our best hope is dosbox or something like it in theory we 
should be able   to run sound based dos games as long as we know what 
to push and on exiting the emulator closes itself but screenreaders hmmm.
A lot of the older ones never used software speech, and we will need a 
software speech emulator to run it all.

At 12:32 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!

On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in 
the dos
> prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make

>
> sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before 
running

> game.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

is your easier solution dosemu under linux? the one you told me about 
before?



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will find facebook site

On 1/4/2015 6:32 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:

Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos
prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, make

sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before running
game.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

I really miss the keynote gold.

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On 1/3/2015 4:34 PM, shaun everiss wrote:
well fact is on old xp I had 2 synths a keynote gold and a dectalk the 
keynote worked fine when accessing com ports but the dectalk did 
stupid things it would access but not relyably and if it did there was 
a 50% chance it would refuse to even work fully at all with mixed 
results.
In most cases windows would not start at all forcing me to reformat 
because it wouldn't boot.
My theory is that windows security because of the way it manages its 
own devices really doesn't like anything accessing  hardware directly 
without a driver or something calling the access.
I never found out what it was all about though because the synth in 
question broke.
While I am a dos junkey all the software I'd need just to set up a vm 
on old vm software is not worth the time I'd spend playing it.

At 11:39 p.m. 3/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!

On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox 
can't hook

>
> up to virtual com ports, etc.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

com0com

http://code.google.com/p/powersdr-iq/downloads/detail?name=setup_com0com_W7_x64_signed.exe&can=2&q=

pyserial

https://pypi.python.org/packages/any/p/pyserial/pyserial-2.7.win32.exe#md5=21555387937eeb79126cde25abee4b35

and vmware player 4.0 is on filehippo and you can also google python 2.6 .

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On 1/3/2015 4:31 PM, shaun everiss wrote:

well I had a look at this josh.
I had issues finding com0com and a few of the oter utilities to use
the vm pluss on at least this system I have issues speed wize while
running a vm with this 32 bit box.
I can run native dos games in 32 bit mode and I'd mmuch prefur dosbox
or an emlator to messing with a vm and other junk.

At 09:26 p.m. 3/01/2015, you wrote:
in the meantime its back to my dos vmware virtual machine. that works
great except I don't have sound blaster support in ms-dos. sound
support in windows3.1 but no sound in ms-dos. any ideas?

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On 1/3/2015 3:15 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

I wouldn't go as far to say Dosbox is a lost cause, but I will say the
manner in which you are attempting to make it accessible is
fundamentally flawed. As I mentioned in another post I am pretty sure
the way to resolve this issue is for someone to take Dosbox and
integrate Sapi support and a possible screen reader into the program
itself, into the emulator, rather than trying to install and run some
third-party screen reader like ASAP into the emulator.

I haven't looked into the specifics here, but it is a bit more
complicated than you are thinking to get Dosbox working correctly.
Just trying to install ASAP, Jaws for Dos, Vocal-Eyes, or whatever
isn't going to fix the problem.

Cheers!

On 1/3/15, Josh k wrote:

I took another stab at dosbox the normally iinaccessible dos emulator
from dosbox.org well I ran the bns server and mounted the asap screen
reader folder after configuring the serial port in dosbox.conf file
under windows.
well i ran
asap bns com1

and no speech even with the virtual bns server running. why can vmware
use the virtual bns server but dosbox cannot? is dosbox just a lost
cause for us?

Josh

--
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-04 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Shaun,

Well, integrating Espeak itself wouldn't be hard. The problem is that
all  you have is TTS support, but still no way to review the screen.
Thus there needs to still be a screen reader component to make it
work.

On 1/3/15, shaun everiss  wrote:
> how hard would it be to just intigrate espeak its already a dll its
> not good quality but its on linux distros and nvda and sapi so it
> can't be that hard.

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

how hard would it be to just intigrate espeak its already a dll its 
not good quality but its on linux distros and nvda and sapi so it 
can't be that hard.


At 09:15 p.m. 3/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Josh,

I wouldn't go as far to say Dosbox is a lost cause, but I will say the
manner in which you are attempting to make it accessible is
fundamentally flawed. As I mentioned in another post I am pretty sure
the way to resolve this issue is for someone to take Dosbox and
integrate Sapi support and a possible screen reader into the program
itself, into the emulator, rather than trying to install and run some
third-party screen reader like ASAP into the emulator.

I haven't looked into the specifics here, but it is a bit more
complicated than you are thinking to get Dosbox working correctly.
Just trying to install ASAP, Jaws for Dos, Vocal-Eyes, or whatever
isn't going to fix the problem.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Josh k  wrote:
> I took another stab at dosbox the normally iinaccessible dos emulator
> from dosbox.org well I ran the bns server and mounted the asap screen
> reader folder after configuring the serial port in dosbox.conf file
> under windows.
> well i ran
> asap bns com1
>
> and no speech even with the virtual bns server running. why can vmware
> use the virtual bns server but dosbox cannot? is dosbox just a lost
> cause for us?
>
> Josh
>
> --
> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
> will find facebook site
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

the issue jakob is 64 bit windows will not run 16 bit dos games or 16 
bit anything because 64 bit cpus can't process 16 bit data!
Ms took dos emulation out of windows 64 bit which is why at least on 
the systems with 4gb or less the maximum the 32 bit standard can 
handle that I am running a 32 bit os.

dos games run to an extent with nvda its not perfect but they do run.
I have 7 though so who knows.
as security gets more and more harder to handle some of these older 
programs may not run as well as they used to.


At 10:18 p.m. 4/01/2015, you wrote:
Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the 
dos prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal 
window, make sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within 
there before running game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt 
option which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


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On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or 
something like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from 
just the command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the 
first time, and then on second try, started trying to work, but 
seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and launched windows 
first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and then 
launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound 
effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to 
double check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight 
stutter effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr 
be the way it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual 
hardware overload, or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos 
games like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched 
from within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via 
window eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within 
windows, but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping 
up on screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, 
and wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and see?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos 
terminal window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you 
unless you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using 
window eyes - primary issue there when tried that out a bit 
was their control panels interfering with each other since 
they both seem to get invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think 
they stop each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos 
virtual machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound 
blaster in dos. but sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem w

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

well fact is on old xp I had 2 synths a keynote gold and a dectalk 
the keynote worked fine when accessing com ports but the dectalk did 
stupid things it would access but not relyably and if it did there 
was a 50% chance it would refuse to even work fully at all with mixed results.
In most cases windows would not start at all forcing me to reformat 
because it wouldn't boot.
My theory is that windows security because of the way it manages its 
own devices really doesn't like anything accessing  hardware directly 
without a driver or something calling the access.
I never found out what it was all about though because the synth in 
question broke.
While I am a dos junkey all the software I'd need just to set up a vm 
on old vm software is not worth the time I'd spend playing it.

At 11:39 p.m. 3/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!

On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox can't hook
>
> up to virtual com ports, etc.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

I agree tom its why I have a 32 bit os with 4gb ram but this may be 
my last 32 bit os.
Sadly while I have a linux machine pulling out another unit to play 
dos games when I have only the space for 1 unit is just not going to 
work till I get something like a vm machine which doesn't run vms 
slowly as heck.
I think our best hope is dosbox or something like it in theory we 
should be able   to run sound based dos games as long as we know what 
to push and on exiting the emulator closes itself but screenreaders hmmm.
A lot of the older ones never used software speech, and we will need 
a software speech emulator to run it all.

At 12:32 a.m. 5/01/2015, you wrote:

Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!

On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos
> prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, make
>
> sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before running
> game.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


well I had a look at this josh.
I had issues finding com0com and a few of the oter utilities to use 
the vm pluss on at least this system I have issues speed wize while 
running a vm with this 32 bit box.
I can run native dos games in 32 bit mode and I'd mmuch prefur dosbox 
or an emlator to messing with a vm and other junk.


At 09:26 p.m. 3/01/2015, you wrote:
in the meantime its back to my dos vmware virtual machine. that 
works great except I don't have sound blaster support in ms-dos. 
sound support in windows3.1 but no sound in ms-dos. any ideas?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 3:15 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Josh,

I wouldn't go as far to say Dosbox is a lost cause, but I will say the
manner in which you are attempting to make it accessible is
fundamentally flawed. As I mentioned in another post I am pretty sure
the way to resolve this issue is for someone to take Dosbox and
integrate Sapi support and a possible screen reader into the program
itself, into the emulator, rather than trying to install and run some
third-party screen reader like ASAP into the emulator.

I haven't looked into the specifics here, but it is a bit more
complicated than you are thinking to get Dosbox working correctly.
Just trying to install ASAP, Jaws for Dos, Vocal-Eyes, or whatever
isn't going to fix the problem.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Josh k  wrote:

I took another stab at dosbox the normally iinaccessible dos emulator
from dosbox.org well I ran the bns server and mounted the asap screen
reader folder after configuring the serial port in dosbox.conf file
under windows.
well i ran
asap bns com1

and no speech even with the virtual bns server running. why can vmware
use the virtual bns server but dosbox cannot? is dosbox just a lost
cause for us?

Josh

--
follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com
will find facebook site


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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-04 Thread Jacob Kruger

Thomas, sorry, but, am actually talking about launching that VMWare instance 
of dos, firing up windows 3.1 inside it, and then actually launching the dos 
terminal window from inside windows 3.1, and then launch ASAP inside that 
terminal window, while window eyes is still running in windows 3.1 itself - 
just seems that sound is handled slightly better via virtual sound card if 
windows 3.1 launches it's rendition of a terminal window, as opposed to just 
launching ASAP directly from the bootup command prompt.


Trust me, I am only too aware that command prompt under windows 7 64 bit 
doesn't handle much in terms of backward compatibility - for prior 
implementations of backward compatibility would run a windows XP 32 bit 
VMWare image on this same machine, but, this other one handles some even 
older things still slightly better.


Stay well

stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Ward" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2015 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!


On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:

Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos
prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, 
make


sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before 
running

game.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."


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list,

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-04 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Jacob,

The problem with the windows command prompt , particularly on 64-bit
Windows, is that it can not execute and run older 8-bit and 16-bit
applications and games. There is the reason Josh is trying to run them
under true dos such as inside a virtual machine or a Dos emulator like
Dosbox. Certain apps and games simply will not run on a modern Windows
7 or Windows 8 computer which sort of bites. However, I have found a
much easier solution than the one he uses which works for me.

Cheers!

On 1/4/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos
> prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, make
>
> sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before running
> game.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-04 Thread Jacob Kruger

Think actually works a bit better, in terms of screen reading in the dos 
prompt if just launch windows, open it's rendition of terminal window, make 
sure am in root of C: drive, and run ASAP from within there before running 
game.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option which 
brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or something 
like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from just the command 
prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the first time, and then on 
second try, started trying to work, but seemed to lock up, but, when then 
rebooted, and launched windows first, and then ASAP from within that ms 
dos terminal, and then launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, 
and sound effects, etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls 
to double check, and sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight stutter 
effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be the way it 
would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware overload, or 
something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos games 
like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window eyes, 
and then use the command prompt window from within windows, but ASAP 
only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on screen, and screen 
review keystrokes don't seem to work, and wouldn't know what to try to 
see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and 
see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal 
window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless you 
had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - 
primary issue there when tried that out a bit was their control 
panels interfering with each other since they both seem to get 
invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop each other from 
operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. but 
sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, 
and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these 
virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is 
going

to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox 
can't hook


up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."

---
G

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

so after you launched windows3.1 you went into the dos prompt option 
which brought back asap and then run tenpin?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/3/2015 2:43 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or something 
like that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from just the 
command prompt, and chose sound card, it did nothing the first time, 
and then on second try, started trying to work, but seemed to lock up, 
but, when then rebooted, and launched windows first, and then ASAP 
from within that ms dos terminal, and then launched tenpin, and chose 
sound card, the music, and sound effects, etc. did play/work.  Played 
a couple of bad ball rolls to double check, and sound effects, music 
clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight stutter 
effect during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be the way 
it would have sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware overload, 
or something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos games 
like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window 
eyes, and then use the command prompt window from within windows, 
but ASAP only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on 
screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and 
wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and 
see?



follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal 
window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless 
you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes 
- primary issue there when tried that out a bit was their control 
panels interfering with each other since they both seem to get 
invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop each other from 
operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. 
but sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing 
hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these 
virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is 
going

to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, 
dosbox can't hook


up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."

---
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gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management 
of the list,

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If you want to leave the list, s

Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

OK, checked, and did have tenpin from personal computing, or something like 
that, here in my CD iso, and when launched it from just the command prompt, 
and chose sound card, it did nothing the first time, and then on second try, 
started trying to work, but seemed to lock up, but, when then rebooted, and 
launched windows first, and then ASAP from within that ms dos terminal, and 
then launched tenpin, and chose sound card, the music, and sound effects, 
etc. did play/work.  Played a couple of bad ball rolls to double check, and 
sound effects, music clips, etc. all seemed fine..?


Not sure if that's the right game, and did also hear a slight stutter effect 
during music clip playback, but, that might eitehr be the way it would have 
sounded, or else it's due to virtual hardware overload, or 
something...


Stay well

This was a quick little test, but, am pretty sure that's exactly

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos games like 
trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from within 
windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window eyes, and then 
use the command prompt window from within windows, but ASAP only lets me 
hear what's automatically popping up on screen, and screen review 
keystrokes don't seem to work, and wouldn't know what to try to see how 
sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and see?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal 
window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless you 
had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - primary 
issue there when tried that out a bit was their control panels 
interfering with each other since they both seem to get invoked using 
ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop each other from operating 
otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. but 
sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is 
going

to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox 
can't hook


up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

you could install tenpin96 the bowling game or one of jim's dos games 
like trucker for dos. it also has sound.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/3/2015 1:57 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and 
launching it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from 
within windows 3.1, and both times I can use windows, via window eyes, 
and then use the command prompt window from within windows, but ASAP 
only lets me hear what's automatically popping up on screen, and 
screen review keystrokes don't seem to work, and wouldn't know what to 
try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and see?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal 
window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless 
you had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - 
primary issue there when tried that out a bit was their control 
panels interfering with each other since they both seem to get 
invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop each other from 
operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. but 
sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is 
going

to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox 
can't hook


up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's 
closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

OK, just tried both firing up ASAP before launching windows, and launching 
it from inside the MS dos terminal window launched from within windows 3.1, 
and both times I can use windows, via window eyes, and then use the command 
prompt window from within windows, but ASAP only lets me hear what's 
automatically popping up on screen, and screen review keystrokes don't seem 
to work, and wouldn't know what to try to see how sound is working - sorry.


Stay well
Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox



no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and see?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal window 
from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless you had 
launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - primary issue 
there when tried that out a bit was their control panels interfering with 
each other since they both seem to get invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't 
think they stop each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual machine. 
it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. but sound blaster 
in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox can't 
hook


up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


no. I tried it and can't get it to work. maybe you could try it and see?


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/3/2015 1:12 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal 
window from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless you 
had launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - 
primary issue there when tried that out a bit was their control panels 
interfering with each other since they both seem to get invoked using 
ctrl + \, but, don't think they stop each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - From: "Josh k" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual 
machine. it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. but 
sound blaster in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox 
can't hook


up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

Josh, does the sound blaster cooperate if you open a dos terminal window 
from within windows 3.1?


Not sure contents of terminal window would get read to you unless you had 
launched ASAP before firing up windows, using window eyes - primary issue 
there when tried that out a bit was their control panels interfering with 
each other since they both seem to get invoked using ctrl + \, but, don't 
think they stop each other from operating otherwise.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox


the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual machine. it 
works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. but sound blaster in 
windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site


On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox can't 
hook


up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

the very best reliable access to dos is the vmware dos virtual machine. 
it works 100% perfect, except no sound blaster in dos. but sound blaster 
in windows.


follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email joshknnd1...@gmail.com 
will find facebook site

On 1/3/2015 5:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:

My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox can't hook

up to virtual com ports, etc.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

---
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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

2015-01-03 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Jacob,

That is my guess as well. The problem with emulators and virtual
machines is there is sometimes a problem with accessing hardware, and
the problem only gets worse with virtual hardware like these virtual
com ports. That is why I think getting reliable access to Dos is going
to be tricky.

Cheers!


On 1/3/15, Jacob Kruger  wrote:
> My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox can't hook
>
> up to virtual com ports, etc.
>
> Stay well
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox

My guess would be that unless it's a configuration issue, dosbox can't hook 
up to virtual com ports, etc.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Roger Wilco wants to welcome you...to the space janitor's closet..."

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh k" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 10:02 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] using dosbox


I took another stab at dosbox the normally iinaccessible dos emulator from 
dosbox.org well I ran the bns server and mounted the asap screen reader 
folder after configuring the serial port in dosbox.conf file under windows.

well i ran
asap bns com1

and no speech even with the virtual bns server running. why can vmware use 
the virtual bns server but dosbox cannot? is dosbox just a lost cause for 
us?


Josh

--
follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 or facebook email 
joshknnd1...@gmail.com will find facebook site



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Re: [Audyssey] using dosbox