Re: Gump3 Presentation
On 10/28/05, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leo Simons wrote: On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 11:49:35AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really, Leo? I thought LGPL is ok and GPL not. Ok - usually I try not to rely on non-ASF-licensed code. ONE license is the best (over a couple of). Heh. Don't ask me for authoritive details. Talk to Cliff Schmidt (our VP legal). Depending on your interpretation of the LGPL and the Apache License, code under these licenses can be used together without the AL code falling under the LGPL license. The ASF recently switched interpretation to one where this mixing and matching is possible for java code, too. yes -- I'm also now working with the FSF's general counsel to get them to make a formal statement about this. I drafted something for them a couple weeks ago and am waiting their response. What I drafted is pretty consistent with what I got agreement on with their GPL compliance officer. However, the ASF doesn't like to ship software for which parts of that software which are needed for it to function are under terms more restrictive than the AL (which is the case when you have a non-optional LGPL dependency). So we have a policy in development (I don't think its ratified yet) to somewhat constrain such a thing. exactly -- things stalled out when it became obvious that the membership was divided on whether we should be including components under other licenses. It's become clear to me that we have no choice but to allow shipping some set of other licenses (since even binaries under licenses like the CPL and MPL really should not be sublicensed under the Apache license) -- so it's now on my plate to propose a solution that not too many people will hate. As far as we currently stand, it is *OK* to *LINK* to LGPL and not to redistribute it. From a legal point of view, it's definitely okay to link. I even firmly believe that it is okay to distribute the app that links to the LGPL library along side the library itself within the same JAR, but I want to get a final explicit confirmation from the FSF that they agree with me on this before I promote the concept. But the legal point of view is not the hold up right now; as I mentioned above, it's really about whether we think our users come to Apache to get products that are entirely under the Apache License terms, and if not, how far different can the terms be before they feel like they're not getting what they want. There is no board resolution about it yet, but it's coming (Cliff, hint hint ;-) yes, yes -- I now have a firm goal: have this whole thing resolve (drafted, discussed, and voted upon) and announced by ApacheCon in December. So, I suggest that we worry about this only when are ready to ship something. Also, remember, the act of 'bundling' and 'shipping' is what constitutes problems for us (details to come in the resolution), therefore if the user gets it on their own, we are fine. The use of things like maven to build, since they fetch the jars on their own, would therefore remove all our legal concerns, yet allow us to keep the hibernate functionality. Again, I don't think there are legal concerns about this, but it does fall into the yet-unresolved issue of what we think our users want: will Apache products be less attractive if they have concerns about redistributing the whole package (including the LGPL stuff, no matter how they got it, if it is a core piece of the package). Cliff - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation
On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 12:34:32AM +0200, Thomas wrote: Sorry haven't had much time lately. The school has started and it takes alot of my time at the moment. I have converted it back to 1.4.2 so thats done. Where's the code? What we have in SVN is 1.5 still... Also I'll make some scripts (.sh .bat) to build the aplication and give some more detaild instructions on how to deploy the .war. A clearer description of the folders and the content of them. More important than documentation is that it works! :-) On Mac OS X 10.4: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ant -f packaging-build.xml Buildfile: packaging-build.xml clean: [delete] Deleting directory /Users/lsimons/dev/asf/gump/Gump3/presentation/WEB-INF/class [mkdir] Created dir: /Users/lsimons/dev/asf/gump/Gump3/presentation/WEB-INF/class copy-resources: [copy] Copying 34 files to /Users/lsimons/dev/asf/gump/Gump3/presentation/WEB-INF/class compile: [javac] Compiling 33 source files to /Users/lsimons/dev/asf/gump/Gump3/presentation/WEB-INF/class BUILD FAILED /Users/lsimons/dev/asf/gump/Gump3/presentation/packaging-build.xml:22: /Users/lsimons/dev/asf/gump/Gump3/presentation/WEB-INF/lib not found. Total time: 6 seconds [EMAIL PROTECTED] svn info Path: . URL: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/gump/branches/Gump3/presentation Repository UUID: 13f79535-47bb-0310-9956-ffa450edef68 Revision: 32 Node Kind: directory Schedule: normal Last Changed Author: ajack Last Changed Rev: 234419 Last Changed Date: 2005-08-22 04:31:37 +0200 (Mon, 22 Aug 2005) [EMAIL PROTECTED] pwd /Users/lsimons/dev/asf/gump/Gump3/presentation [EMAIL PROTECTED] which ant /opt/local/bin/ant [EMAIL PROTECTED] ant -version Apache Ant version 1.6.5 compiled on June 2 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] echo $JAVA_HOME tcsh: JAVA_HOME: Undefined variable. [EMAIL PROTECTED] which jav jav: Command not found. [EMAIL PROTECTED] which java /usr/bin/java [EMAIL PROTECTED] java -version java version 1.4.2_09 Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_09-232) Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-54, mixed mode) This is my first real project with opensource so regarding the licens files, Do I need to unpack the licens files or is it enought to let them be in the jar files of the third party jars ?? they need to be in the source code tree somewhere like Stefano wrote. It isn't very important what is in the jar files as we aren't re-distributing anything. Also I have now added the Apache Lincens in the root directory of the project. I quess I'll have to include it in the war archive as well when they build it with ant. Please feel free to comment. I'm in this to learn and hope that you don't get sick of my stupidity and novice questions. Heh. Stop calling yourself stupid will you :-) When I get some free time I'll fix it. Hopefully there will be 2-3 hours a week. Wheehooh! - it still uses hibernate Ok... sound you don't like hibernate ? I'll update the SQL file so you can use both. Thats the point you can use SQL or hibernate your choice. Great. Please write a little readme on how to do that configuration. Its not that I don't like hibernate, its that hibernate is under the LGPL license which doesn't work so well with the Apache License / Apache License policies. - LSD - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation
On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 11:49:35AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really, Leo? I thought LGPL is ok and GPL not. Ok - usually I try not to rely on non-ASF-licensed code. ONE license is the best (over a couple of). Heh. Don't ask me for authoritive details. Talk to Cliff Schmidt (our VP legal). Depending on your interpretation of the LGPL and the Apache License, code under these licenses can be used together without the AL code falling under the LGPL license. The ASF recently switched interpretation to one where this mixing and matching is possible for java code, too. However, the ASF doesn't like to ship software for which parts of that software which are needed for it to function are under terms more restrictive than the AL (which is the case when you have a non-optional LGPL dependency). So we have a policy in development (I don't think its ratified yet) to somewhat constrain such a thing. - LSD - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation
Leo Simons wrote: On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 11:49:35AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really, Leo? I thought LGPL is ok and GPL not. Ok - usually I try not to rely on non-ASF-licensed code. ONE license is the best (over a couple of). Heh. Don't ask me for authoritive details. Talk to Cliff Schmidt (our VP legal). Depending on your interpretation of the LGPL and the Apache License, code under these licenses can be used together without the AL code falling under the LGPL license. The ASF recently switched interpretation to one where this mixing and matching is possible for java code, too. However, the ASF doesn't like to ship software for which parts of that software which are needed for it to function are under terms more restrictive than the AL (which is the case when you have a non-optional LGPL dependency). So we have a policy in development (I don't think its ratified yet) to somewhat constrain such a thing. As far as we currently stand, it is *OK* to *LINK* to LGPL and not to redistribute it. There is no board resolution about it yet, but it's coming (Cliff, hint hint ;-) So, I suggest that we worry about this only when are ready to ship something. Also, remember, the act of 'bundling' and 'shipping' is what constitutes problems for us (details to come in the resolution), therefore if the user gets it on their own, we are fine. The use of things like maven to build, since they fetch the jars on their own, would therefore remove all our legal concerns, yet allow us to keep the hibernate functionality. -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation
Okay, I looked at this today, tried to get things to compile and hit many of the same problems as Stefano outlined. - some jars seem to be missing - docs in general, are missing, so I can't quite figure out what is happening where - its java 5 (ugh) - it still uses hibernate - legal/ info is still missing - I don't really get the build organisation, its kinda different from what you get using the maven-like structure (for want of a better term, eg having a src/java, src/htdocs, src/xxx and a build/classes, build/war, etc) and don't know where to start fixing things I think the below is the last email on this which was about two months ago. Thomas, are you going to address any of the bits you talk about below? Its not really possible to use this stuff right now. As it stands with the above issues, gump3-presentation would be a step backwards from dynagump. - LSD On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 01:05:32PM +0200, Thomas wrote: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Thomas wrote: Hi ! I have now uploaded a working compy of the Gump3 pressentation. The webapplication is far from done. But it would be nice with some feedback. The code is a bit of a mess so refactoring is indeed needed. Mostly I would like idees on what functionality you would like to se in the application. Also a comment on the documentation/installation manual would be nice. My spelling isn't that good so, be nice ;) but don't keep quite either. (need to learn) So if you have the time please take a look. I'm on it. A few comments: 1) thanks for keeping the dynagump resources! 2) I never used struts but seems easy to learn by example, which is good for this (and probably much easier than cocoon for newbies) 3) I never ran a JSP on this machine (macosx) and I'm experiencing all sort of defective behaviors in jetty due to the jsp compiler trying to open a jni library as a zip file (???) ??? 4) the web application should *never* start with a directory listing, the index.jsp page should be in the root not in a folder that you have to guess where to go All java source files is in WEB-INF src and all the jsp,html,css and other sourcefiles for the webpages is in the map pages. 5) the tar.gz package should be a war and should contain the classes compiled into /WEB-INF/classes so that you can deploy-and-forget (or at least just change the JDBC parameters) If you unpack the tar.gz file and run the ant build file package-build.xml. The source will be compiled and a war-archive created. The structure of the war-archive should be: / |- index.jsp |- leftbar.inc |- META-INF/ | |- MANIFEST.MF |- WEB-INF/ | |- /* Config files for struts .xml and .tld */ | |- error/ | | |- /* error page can not be accessed manualy*/ | |- classes/ | | |- /* all the classes and packages */ | |- lib/ | | |-/* all the jar files */ | |- results/ ||- /* jsp pages for results that canot be accessed manualy*/ |- resources/ | |- /* resources for the application such as css, pictures etc. */ |- results/ | |- /* jsp pages for results that can be accessed manualy */ All pages Jsp pages that are in WEB-INF can't be accessed directly. To get to them you have to go through a Action servlet. There for I have put all the pages that needs some data (processed by an action class) in that folder or subfolders to WEB-INF. 6) the SQL data seems weird, but this is probably not your fault The SQL is not my strongest side. The idee is to use hibernate insted but since I hade some problems you can use either Hibernate or a pure jdbc connection against the database. Both are included. Althought to change from one to another check the file DBHandler and just change a text string. For mysql just use MySQL and for hibernate Hibernate. 7) java 1.5 is, IMNSHO, a little too bleeding edge (especially on a mac) and eclipse gives all sort of warnings. Not having used generics yet, I still have no clue of what they mean and how serious they are. You might want to look into that, though, code should not have warnings. All the wrnings comes from implementing hibenate. I haven't figured out how to write the code for hibernate with generics. It dosen't cause any troubles since I type cast it insted like you do in 1.4. I can change it back. The only thing that separetes my 1.5 code from a 1.4 code is the generics. 8) I have not looked into the code yet, as I still can't run JSP pages, but I will as soon as I can. 9) there should be a /legal folder that contains all the licenses of the libraries This is a good point :). 10) and would also be nice to have a file that depicts the dependencies between the libraries (so that we could have gump building dynagump) 11) you say the mysql jdbc driver is in /lib but
Re: Gump3 Presentation
Hi All ! Sorry haven't had much time lately. The school has started and it takes alot of my time at the moment. I have converted it back to 1.4.2 so thats done. Also I know that there isn't much comment nor is the documentation any good. Also the code needs some refactoring. Hopefully I'll make som dokument containing the design. Also I'll make some scripts (.sh .bat) to build the aplication and give some more detaild instructions on how to deploy the .war. A clearer description of the folders and the content of them. This is my first real project with opensource so regarding the licens files, Do I need to unpack the licens files or is it enought to let them be in the jar files of the third party jars ?? Also I have now added the Apache Lincens in the root directory of the project. I quess I'll have to include it in the war archive as well when they build it with ant. Please feel free to comment. I'm in this to learn and hope that you don't get sick of my stupidity and novice questions. When I get some free time I'll fix it. Hopefully there will be 2-3 hours a week. Leo Simons wrote: Okay, I looked at this today, tried to get things to compile and hit many of the same problems as Stefano outlined. - some jars seem to be missing - docs in general, are missing, so I can't quite figure out what is happening where - its java 5 (ugh) fixed. - it still uses hibernate Ok... sound you don't like hibernate ? I'll update the SQL file so you can use both. Thats the point you can use SQL or hibernate your choice. - legal/ info is still missing - I don't really get the build organisation, its kinda different from what you get using the maven-like structure (for want of a better term, eg having a src/java, src/htdocs, src/xxx and a build/classes, build/war, etc) and don't know where to start fixing things I think the below is the last email on this which was about two months ago. Thomas, are you going to address any of the bits you talk about below? Its not really possible to use this stuff right now. As it stands with the above issues, gump3-presentation would be a step backwards from dynagump. - LSD On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 01:05:32PM +0200, Thomas wrote: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Thomas wrote: Hi ! I have now uploaded a working compy of the Gump3 pressentation. The webapplication is far from done. But it would be nice with some feedback. The code is a bit of a mess so refactoring is indeed needed. Mostly I would like idees on what functionality you would like to se in the application. Also a comment on the documentation/installation manual would be nice. My spelling isn't that good so, be nice ;) but don't keep quite either. (need to learn) So if you have the time please take a look. I'm on it. A few comments: 1) thanks for keeping the dynagump resources! 2) I never used struts but seems easy to learn by example, which is good for this (and probably much easier than cocoon for newbies) 3) I never ran a JSP on this machine (macosx) and I'm experiencing all sort of defective behaviors in jetty due to the jsp compiler trying to open a jni library as a zip file (???) ??? 4) the web application should *never* start with a directory listing, the index.jsp page should be in the root not in a folder that you have to guess where to go All java source files is in WEB-INF src and all the jsp,html,css and other sourcefiles for the webpages is in the map pages. 5) the tar.gz package should be a war and should contain the classes compiled into /WEB-INF/classes so that you can deploy-and-forget (or at least just change the JDBC parameters) If you unpack the tar.gz file and run the ant build file package-build.xml. The source will be compiled and a war-archive created. The structure of the war-archive should be: / |- index.jsp |- leftbar.inc |- META-INF/ | |- MANIFEST.MF |- WEB-INF/ | |- /* Config files for struts .xml and .tld */ | |- error/ | | |- /* error page can not be accessed manualy*/ | |- classes/ | | |- /* all the classes and packages */ | |- lib/ | | |-/* all the jar files */ | |- results/ ||- /* jsp pages for results that canot be accessed manualy*/ |- resources/ | |- /* resources for the application such as css, pictures etc. */ |- results/ | |- /* jsp pages for results that can be accessed manualy */ All pages Jsp pages that are in WEB-INF can't be accessed directly. To get to them you have to go through a Action servlet. There for I have put all the pages that needs some data (processed by an action class) in that folder or subfolders to WEB-INF. 6) the SQL data seems weird, but this is probably not your fault The SQL is not my strongest side. The idee is to use hibernate insted but since I hade some problems you can use
Re: Gump3 Presentation
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Thomas wrote: Hi ! I have now uploaded a working compy of the Gump3 pressentation. The webapplication is far from done. But it would be nice with some feedback. The code is a bit of a mess so refactoring is indeed needed. Mostly I would like idees on what functionality you would like to se in the application. Also a comment on the documentation/installation manual would be nice. My spelling isn't that good so, be nice ;) but don't keep quite either. (need to learn) So if you have the time please take a look. I'm on it. A few comments: 1) thanks for keeping the dynagump resources! 2) I never used struts but seems easy to learn by example, which is good for this (and probably much easier than cocoon for newbies) 3) I never ran a JSP on this machine (macosx) and I'm experiencing all sort of defective behaviors in jetty due to the jsp compiler trying to open a jni library as a zip file (???) ??? 4) the web application should *never* start with a directory listing, the index.jsp page should be in the root not in a folder that you have to guess where to go All java source files is in WEB-INF src and all the jsp,html,css and other sourcefiles for the webpages is in the map pages. 5) the tar.gz package should be a war and should contain the classes compiled into /WEB-INF/classes so that you can deploy-and-forget (or at least just change the JDBC parameters) If you unpack the tar.gz file and run the ant build file package-build.xml. The source will be compiled and a war-archive created. The structure of the war-archive should be: / |- index.jsp |- leftbar.inc |- META-INF/ | |- MANIFEST.MF |- WEB-INF/ | |- /* Config files for struts .xml and .tld */ | |- error/ | | |- /* error page can not be accessed manualy*/ | |- classes/ | | |- /* all the classes and packages */ | |- lib/ | | |-/* all the jar files */ | |- results/ ||- /* jsp pages for results that canot be accessed manualy*/ |- resources/ | |- /* resources for the application such as css, pictures etc. */ |- results/ | |- /* jsp pages for results that can be accessed manualy */ All pages Jsp pages that are in WEB-INF can't be accessed directly. To get to them you have to go through a Action servlet. There for I have put all the pages that needs some data (processed by an action class) in that folder or subfolders to WEB-INF. 6) the SQL data seems weird, but this is probably not your fault The SQL is not my strongest side. The idee is to use hibernate insted but since I hade some problems you can use either Hibernate or a pure jdbc connection against the database. Both are included. Althought to change from one to another check the file DBHandler and just change a text string. For mysql just use MySQL and for hibernate Hibernate. 7) java 1.5 is, IMNSHO, a little too bleeding edge (especially on a mac) and eclipse gives all sort of warnings. Not having used generics yet, I still have no clue of what they mean and how serious they are. You might want to look into that, though, code should not have warnings. All the wrnings comes from implementing hibenate. I haven't figured out how to write the code for hibernate with generics. It dosen't cause any troubles since I type cast it insted like you do in 1.4. I can change it back. The only thing that separetes my 1.5 code from a 1.4 code is the generics. 8) I have not looked into the code yet, as I still can't run JSP pages, but I will as soon as I can. 9) there should be a /legal folder that contains all the licenses of the libraries This is a good point :). 10) and would also be nice to have a file that depicts the dependencies between the libraries (so that we could have gump building dynagump) 11) you say the mysql jdbc driver is in /lib but it's not (or at least, not as a standalone jar)... but I suggest we keep it out since it's GPL stuff. In any case, it looks like a very good job from where I stand. Will know more as soon as I can get it running ;-) Seem that Java 1.5 was indeed a bad idea. http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6295519 Thomas, how much work would be to downgrade this to 1.4? It shouldn't be any problems since I use Eclipse and all I have to do is change a setting for Eclips to mark all the errors and warnings for 1.4 code insted of 1.5. Sure it will take a while but we talk hours not days. Thanks for you feedback and idees now I have something to work with :). Regarding Jetty I haven't used that application server but I know it's smal and simple. To test Gump3 Presentation I have used JBoss. But I'll test it with Jetty. Also I know that the documentation isn't much and might have a lot of fault. But I'm working on that. I'll start downgrading it 1.4 /Thomas - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: Gump3 Presentation
Thomas wrote: Hi ! I have now uploaded a working compy of the Gump3 pressentation. The webapplication is far from done. But it would be nice with some feedback. The code is a bit of a mess so refactoring is indeed needed. Mostly I would like idees on what functionality you would like to se in the application. Also a comment on the documentation/installation manual would be nice. My spelling isn't that good so, be nice ;) but don't keep quite either. (need to learn) So if you have the time please take a look. I'm on it. A few comments: 1) thanks for keeping the dynagump resources! 2) I never used struts but seems easy to learn by example, which is good for this (and probably much easier than cocoon for newbies) 3) I never ran a JSP on this machine (macosx) and I'm experiencing all sort of defective behaviors in jetty due to the jsp compiler trying to open a jni library as a zip file (???) 4) the web application should *never* start with a directory listing, the index.jsp page should be in the root not in a folder that you have to guess where to go 5) the tar.gz package should be a war and should contain the classes compiled into /WEB-INF/classes so that you can deploy-and-forget (or at least just change the JDBC parameters) 6) the SQL data seems weird, but this is probably not your fault 7) java 1.5 is, IMNSHO, a little too bleeding edge (especially on a mac) and eclipse gives all sort of warnings. Not having used generics yet, I still have no clue of what they mean and how serious they are. You might want to look into that, though, code should not have warnings. 8) I have not looked into the code yet, as I still can't run JSP pages, but I will as soon as I can. 9) there should be a /legal folder that contains all the licenses of the libraries 10) and would also be nice to have a file that depicts the dependencies between the libraries (so that we could have gump building dynagump) 11) you say the mysql jdbc driver is in /lib but it's not (or at least, not as a standalone jar)... but I suggest we keep it out since it's GPL stuff. In any case, it looks like a very good job from where I stand. Will know more as soon as I can get it running ;-) -- Stefano, who is pleased to have been reminded on why he hated JSPs in the first place :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Thomas wrote: Hi ! I have now uploaded a working compy of the Gump3 pressentation. The webapplication is far from done. But it would be nice with some feedback. The code is a bit of a mess so refactoring is indeed needed. Mostly I would like idees on what functionality you would like to se in the application. Also a comment on the documentation/installation manual would be nice. My spelling isn't that good so, be nice ;) but don't keep quite either. (need to learn) So if you have the time please take a look. I'm on it. A few comments: 1) thanks for keeping the dynagump resources! 2) I never used struts but seems easy to learn by example, which is good for this (and probably much easier than cocoon for newbies) 3) I never ran a JSP on this machine (macosx) and I'm experiencing all sort of defective behaviors in jetty due to the jsp compiler trying to open a jni library as a zip file (???) 4) the web application should *never* start with a directory listing, the index.jsp page should be in the root not in a folder that you have to guess where to go 5) the tar.gz package should be a war and should contain the classes compiled into /WEB-INF/classes so that you can deploy-and-forget (or at least just change the JDBC parameters) 6) the SQL data seems weird, but this is probably not your fault 7) java 1.5 is, IMNSHO, a little too bleeding edge (especially on a mac) and eclipse gives all sort of warnings. Not having used generics yet, I still have no clue of what they mean and how serious they are. You might want to look into that, though, code should not have warnings. 8) I have not looked into the code yet, as I still can't run JSP pages, but I will as soon as I can. 9) there should be a /legal folder that contains all the licenses of the libraries 10) and would also be nice to have a file that depicts the dependencies between the libraries (so that we could have gump building dynagump) 11) you say the mysql jdbc driver is in /lib but it's not (or at least, not as a standalone jar)... but I suggest we keep it out since it's GPL stuff. In any case, it looks like a very good job from where I stand. Will know more as soon as I can get it running ;-) Seem that Java 1.5 was indeed a bad idea. http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6295519 Thomas, how much work would be to downgrade this to 1.4? -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 presentation
On 26-07-2005 12:00, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi ! Hi thomas! (this is a quick reply, I have limited connectivity atm) I also have one question regarding the database. The causes table lists the cause of a stalled package. The same information could be found by listing the dependencies tree from one faild build. If I got it right it's the same information on two places. The only thing that would make my statement wrong is if: package#1 depends on package#2 and package#1 can be build although package#2 faild. Another way my statement dosent work on is if. the causes table refer to somethig else then only dependencies. As I said before I don't know if got the causes table right need some clearance on that. A cause can also be failure to update from source control (eg CVS), a problem with the xml definitions, an internal error within gump, or something similar. There can be multiple causes (eg multiple failed dependencies). Think of this as a sort of lightweight exception stack trace. *but*, for now, it might indeed be a good idea to just look for one dependency that caused a problem and use that. It can be generalized later. Cheers! Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Thomas wrote: Leo Simons wrote: On 18-07-2005 15:33, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I don't get around this cocoon problems I have I'll start a new presentation application (not dyngump) with J2EE and Struts. I'll chuck in 2 cents: I don't want J2EE. Servlets+Struts+other stuff like velocity is potentially nice, but please no EJB or JNDI or any of the other J2EE stack. Most of it is crap :-) If i go with struts it will be very simple Servelts+struts thats about it I hope to be able not use any other framwork for the database comunication but if I get a lot of protest there from you or other that works with Gump, I'll use a framwork for that to (Hybernate). like to hear what you have to say, if I missunderstud something with cocoon or if I'm just giving up to easy. But I want to get som results now and I feel that cocoon is one step to big to take at the moment to get where I whant. Ok. I'd appreciate if you could go into some more detail (and a little more concretely) on what you tried to do with dynagump that you were unable to get to, what you tried to get there, and how you figured out what to try, etc. That'll be very useful feedback to the cocoon people, and it means you won't have wasted your time :-) The thing that I got stuck on with cocoon is when it gets abit more complicated, create generators and more custome stuff. I have no problems when it comes to communicating with the database take out rows, update, add, the basic stuff. The problems comes when I want to do something with the data that I get. No problems on presenting the data writing xslt's and generating pages from xml files. That part I think works porfectly and is the reason why I whan't to lear more about cocoon. But when you whant to costumize the webapp abit more like generators I'm lost. The level of knoledge you need to proceed with that is huge and the tutorials often miss parts like filenames of files that are created and wich files he is working on (editing). Small things that is so important when you are new to things like a compleat framework. Something concrete is for example you get a value from the database and you whant to multiply it with another value that you also get from the db. To me it sounds like I have missed something essential. If I have missed somthing that makes me go Haha I might go with cocoon but as it is now cocoon is taking to much time to learn for me to make some progres before the summer of code is over. Good points and I don't have the energy/time to fill that teaching gap, I'm afraid. I don't mind if you go Struts+Hibernate, but at least, keep the html templates that of the current dynagump. -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Hi Stefano! I have taken a look at cocoon but find it kind of dificult to keep the things apart. I can't say that I get it all but from what I have red and understand the sql code is in the xml document with the content. Logic can be implemented in alot of different ways, java-script, xslt, and a costum generator. Is this right ??? My problem is that it gets kind of messy in the xml files where sql statements and content is mixed. Also if I whant to do some logic on it I have to make my own generator. I don't doubt that cocoon is realy good once you know it. As it is know just figured out the basic pipelines properly and find it to be a realy good content manage framework at least. And if I scratch the surfice abit more I'll find the good things about cocoon. If I don't get around this cocoon problems I have I'll start a new presentation application (not dyngump) with J2EE and Struts. like to hear what you have to say, if I missunderstud something with cocoon or if I'm just giving up to easy. But I want to get som results now and I feel that cocoon is one step to big to take at the moment to get where I whant. regards Thomas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
On 18-07-2005 15:33, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I don't get around this cocoon problems I have I'll start a new presentation application (not dyngump) with J2EE and Struts. I'll chuck in 2 cents: I don't want J2EE. Servlets+Struts+other stuff like velocity is potentially nice, but please no EJB or JNDI or any of the other J2EE stack. Most of it is crap :-) like to hear what you have to say, if I missunderstud something with cocoon or if I'm just giving up to easy. But I want to get som results now and I feel that cocoon is one step to big to take at the moment to get where I whant. Ok. I'd appreciate if you could go into some more detail (and a little more concretely) on what you tried to do with dynagump that you were unable to get to, what you tried to get there, and how you figured out what to try, etc. That'll be very useful feedback to the cocoon people, and it means you won't have wasted your time :-) Cheers, Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Leo Simons wrote: On 18-07-2005 15:33, Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I don't get around this cocoon problems I have I'll start a new presentation application (not dyngump) with J2EE and Struts. I'll chuck in 2 cents: I don't want J2EE. Servlets+Struts+other stuff like velocity is potentially nice, but please no EJB or JNDI or any of the other J2EE stack. Most of it is crap :-) If i go with struts it will be very simple Servelts+struts thats about it I hope to be able not use any other framwork for the database comunication but if I get a lot of protest there from you or other that works with Gump, I'll use a framwork for that to (Hybernate). like to hear what you have to say, if I missunderstud something with cocoon or if I'm just giving up to easy. But I want to get som results now and I feel that cocoon is one step to big to take at the moment to get where I whant. Ok. I'd appreciate if you could go into some more detail (and a little more concretely) on what you tried to do with dynagump that you were unable to get to, what you tried to get there, and how you figured out what to try, etc. That'll be very useful feedback to the cocoon people, and it means you won't have wasted your time :-) The thing that I got stuck on with cocoon is when it gets abit more complicated, create generators and more custome stuff. I have no problems when it comes to communicating with the database take out rows, update, add, the basic stuff. The problems comes when I want to do something with the data that I get. No problems on presenting the data writing xslt's and generating pages from xml files. That part I think works porfectly and is the reason why I whan't to lear more about cocoon. But when you whant to costumize the webapp abit more like generators I'm lost. The level of knoledge you need to proceed with that is huge and the tutorials often miss parts like filenames of files that are created and wich files he is working on (editing). Small things that is so important when you are new to things like a compleat framework. Something concrete is for example you get a value from the database and you whant to multiply it with another value that you also get from the db. To me it sounds like I have missed something essential. If I have missed somthing that makes me go Haha I might go with cocoon but as it is now cocoon is taking to much time to learn for me to make some progres before the summer of code is over. regards Thomas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Leo Simons wrote: Thomas wrote: More I have taken a look at the dynaGump but can't get it to woork the application is missing a Catalogmanager.properties. I've copied one from the samples of the cocoon source but don't know if I need configure it in anny special way. That has got to be the most common error or rather warning cocoon spits out. It should be able to work without that file. What do you see when visiting http://localhost:8080/? Ignore the CatalogManager.properties message. It is for adding your own catalog to look up extra DTDs for xml source documents, to save network trips and get a local copy. You can have an optional CatalogManager.properties in your project which can be empty and thus keep the thing quiet. What version of Cocoon is this? -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Thomas wrote: So I'm setingup Gump and I think I'm done... The problem now is to setup some configuration that will generate good data... a litle help with that would be nice... just something that gives me different stuff that can be applied to different use-cases. There is now code to generate lots of data :-). I've also put a dump of some data I generated with that code in SVN, so even if you don't get the python beastie running you should be able to use that. That data was generated as follows on my machine: cd /home/lsimons/svn/gump/branches/Gump3/ mysql -u gump -p gump gumpdb/src/sql/gump3-database-definition.sql ./gump run --workspace=/home/lsimons/svn/gump/branches/Gump3/metadata/workspace.xml ./gump run --workspace=/home/lsimons/svn/gump/branches/Gump3/fixture/metadata/workspace.xml (in addition setting the --databasepassword parameter to ./gump). We'll probably try to get you some really big database dumps of more realistic sample data (right now its just two runs on a single machine on the same day over about half a dozen projects, the db will have hundreds or even thousands of runs over hundreds of projects on half a dozen different machines over the course of several years) once you need 'em. cheers! Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Leo Simons wrote: Thomas wrote: Hi every one ! Hi Thomas! More I have taken a look at the dynaGump but can't get it to woork the application is missing a Catalogmanager.properties. I've copied one from the samples of the cocoon source but don't know if I need configure it in anny special way. That has got to be the most common error or rather warning cocoon spits out. It should be able to work without that file. What do you see when visiting http://localhost:8080/? Some how it works now, Don't know what I have done It might have been the Catalogmangare file I don't know? Before I got IlligalStateException I think it was generated because the eh-cache-2 wasn't alive... thats what the extended message said. But know it all works. cheers, LSD - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Thomas wrote: Stefano Some questions for you about cocoon. Sure. I have just poked around abit but what I find mostly is look at the examples. That is a good way to learn if you know some basic stuff. Yep, agreed. How dose the structure of the application looklike where to put files and folders ?? well, first of all, cocoon is, if you wish, a huge servlet. So, it looks like just any other j2ee webapp with a servlet container around. dynagump is prepackaged with jetty running a cocoon webapp, but it's really two things (and one could think about running dynagump in tomcat, if one wishes to do so) I like jetty better because it's smaller and easier to configure/embed and starts/stops faster. The cocoon specificities are mostly: 1) webapp/sitemap.xmap is where the pipelines are defined and where the URL - pipeline processing takes place (NOTE: sitemaps can nest other sitemaps, so their location could vary and you can have multiple of them) 2) webapp/WEB-INF/cocoon.xconf is where the cocoon configurations remain. You should not have to do anything there. Remeber that I'm comming from J2EE where every config file and folder has it's place I'm guessing it's the same here. What config files do I need to know about and what is ehcache-2. The ehcache-2 is never alive and all I get is an Error saying so. Thats my first error in geting dynagump to work. ehcache is the caching engine. cocoon is pretty agressive on caching. you might want to tweak the cocoon.xconf settings on caching if that still causes you troubles. One step at the time I'm on my way. Awesome. Note: dynagump is not the latest and greatest cocoon, so maybe there could be bugs that are already fixed. If you sound some others let me know. -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Hi every one ! So I'm setingup Gump and I think I'm done... The problem now is to setup some configuration that will generate good data... a litle help with that would be nice... just something that gives me different stuff that can be applied to different use-cases. More I have taken a look at the dynaGump but can't get it to woork the application is missing a Catalogmanager.properties. I've copied one from the samples of the cocoon source but don't know if I need configure it in anny special way. Stefano Some questions for you about cocoon. I have just poked around abit but what I find mostly is look at the examples. That is a good way to learn if you know some basic stuff. How dose the structure of the application looklike where to put files and folders ?? Remeber that I'm comming from J2EE where every config file and folder has it's place I'm guessing it's the same here. What config files do I need to know about and what is ehcache-2. The ehcache-2 is never alive and all I get is an Error saying so. Thats my first error in geting dynagump to work. One step at the time I'm on my way. Thanks for your help /Thomas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Hi every one ! So I'm setingup Gump and I think I'm done... The problem now is to setup some configuration that will generate good data... a litle help with that would be nice... just something that gives me different stuff that can be applied to different use-cases. More I have taken a look at the dynaGump but can't get it to woork the application is missing a Catalogmanager.properties. I've copied one from the samples of the cocoon source but don't know if I need configure it in anny special way. Stefano Some questions for you about cocoon. I have just poked around abit but what I find mostly is look at the examples. That is a good way to learn if you know some basic stuff. How dose the structure of the application looklike where to put files and folders ?? Remeber that I'm comming from J2EE where every config file and folder has it's place I'm guessing it's the same here. What config files do I need to know about and what is ehcache-2. The ehcache-2 is never alive and all I get is an Error saying so. Thats my first error in geting dynagump to work. One step at the time I'm on my way. Thanks for your help /Thomas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Thomas wrote: Hi every one ! Hi Thomas! More I have taken a look at the dynaGump but can't get it to woork the application is missing a Catalogmanager.properties. I've copied one from the samples of the cocoon source but don't know if I need configure it in anny special way. That has got to be the most common error or rather warning cocoon spits out. It should be able to work without that file. What do you see when visiting http://localhost:8080/? cheers, LSD - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Adam R. B. Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my knowledge here are the best known candiates (plus some others I've heard discussed.) - Java JSP/Struts. - Cocoon (Stefano has spent significant time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) - mod_python (Leo has spent some time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) - PHP (why not?) because we'd have to install (security) updates too often for PHP 8-) Seriously, I don't see any reason to rule out PHP completely and would even throw in ASP.NET on mod_mono if Thomas is interested. Personally I'm currently stretched too thin to commit to anything. I do have quite a bit Struts experience and some ASP.NET/mod_mono. I've never used any of the three other technologies you've listed. I know this is needs to be focused project, with fixed time allocated to it. As such, these last two thoughts [webapp used for more than just presentation and creation of permanent URLs, different output formats] are probably overkill. Getting the data presented to the users is the only (first) goal. +1 Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
On Jun 30, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Adam R. B. Jack wrote: To my knowledge here are the best known candiates (plus some others I've heard discussed.) - Java JSP/Struts. - Cocoon (Stefano has spent significant time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) - mod_python (Leo has spent some time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) - PHP (why not?) To toss another idea out there... I highly recommend Ruby on Rails - it's elegant, clean, and ties to a DB easily. Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Some input from me about what I think of what technoligy to use. This is just my opinion and of corse I'm willing to learn something new if thats what you think would work the best. On Jun 30, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Adam R. B. Jack wrote: To my knowledge here are the best known candiates (plus some others I've heard discussed.) - Java JSP/Struts. Java and JSP + Struts I know well... the easy way to get a result. Java is my main programming language and I personaly think I know it well regarding webapplication in Java, J2EE and struts. - Cocoon (Stefano has spent significant time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) Cocoon: I have never used it but sounds like I can get som help from Stefano. So that might work for me to. - mod_python (Leo has spent some time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) mod_python: I have never used python, so that sound like a challange but challanges is just a good thing... It all depends on what I need to have finished at the end of summer of code. - PHP (why not?) PHP: I have done som work with PHP. But I rather prefer some type of Java or none script language before PHP. To toss another idea out there... I highly recommend Ruby on Rails - it's elegant, clean, and ties to a DB easily. Erik Ruby on Rails: never used it never even programed in Ruby. But the same gose here as for mod_python. To summarize this. I prefer a java based language and framework. The advantage of using mod_python is that alot of other thing in gump and around gump is written in python. I don't have anything against lerning something new but the result will take abit longer and would not be as good implemented as if had been Javabased. I don't know what and how much I need to do compleat the summer of code project. My intention and hope is that I can keep on working on this and be a part of the Gump project even after the summer of code. For the moment I'm setting Gump and I'm trying to get it to work. I'm also trying to get an over view of the database and what all the tables is. /Thomas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
Adam R. B. Jack wrote: Folks, please feel free to chip in your comments/reservations and perspectives on all of these to help Thomas decide. I suggest trying dynagump first. If it turns out that Thomas isn't able to get productive using dynagump, that's a sign that dynagump isn't a good idea (after all we want to make it easy to do this development!) and we can take a look at some other options. Based on my understanding of Thomas' background, something servlet-based would be next up on the list. We can run that alongside dynagump as part of the same codebase (dynagump is servlet-based as well, after all), and perhaps integrate the two in some way. *I* think python is undervalued for webapp development and there's no reason it can't work well. But I also think that java is the most mature webapp technology out there and cocoon is one of the best webapp frameworks out there (despite me not having much fun using it) so it'd be insane not to try and use it. cheers, Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump3 Presentation -- choice of technology
[your clock is screwed ;-)] Thomas wrote: Some input from me about what I think of what technoligy to use. This is just my opinion and of corse I'm willing to learn something new if thats what you think would work the best. I think what works best for you works best for us. On Jun 30, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Adam R. B. Jack wrote: To my knowledge here are the best known candiates (plus some others I've heard discussed.) - Java JSP/Struts. Java and JSP + Struts I know well... the easy way to get a result. Java is my main programming language and I personaly think I know it well regarding webapplication in Java, J2EE and struts. Cool. - Cocoon (Stefano has spent significant time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) Cocoon: I have never used it but sounds like I can get som help from Stefano. So that might work for me to. Great. - mod_python (Leo has spent some time on this, he feels it is worth evaluating.) mod_python: I have never used python, so that sound like a challange but challanges is just a good thing... It all depends on what I need to have finished at the end of summer of code. Learning python is easy (especially if you know java) but you don't have to. Gump3 is architected in a way so that different modules can be built with different languages, the idea was to capture more people that way. But I suggest you start reading the excellent dive into python (http://diveintopython.org/) just to get a sense of what it is. - PHP (why not?) PHP: I have done som work with PHP. But I rather prefer some type of Java or none script language before PHP. Nice to hear that ;-) To toss another idea out there... I highly recommend Ruby on Rails - it's elegant, clean, and ties to a DB easily. Erik Ruby on Rails: never used it never even programed in Ruby. But the same gose here as for mod_python. I heard good things on RoR, but nobody here knows Ruby and we are trying to increase the community size not decrease it ;-) To summarize this. I prefer a java based language and framework. The advantage of using mod_python is that alot of other thing in gump and around gump is written in python. I don't have anything against lerning something new but the result will take abit longer and would not be as good implemented as if had been Javabased. I don't know what and how much I need to do compleat the summer of code project. My intention and hope is that I can keep on working on this and be a part of the Gump project even after the summer of code. We would hope that to be the case too. So, make yourself at home, follow Leo's excellent directions and let us know how you feel when you get there. For the moment I'm setting Gump and I'm trying to get it to work. I'm also trying to get an over view of the database and what all the tables is. Great. -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
