Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. I can't change the whole world just for one list. No need to. Even in other mails, there's seldom a need for HTML in mails. Sorry. Not really. BTW: Please trim your quotes. Fullquotes are bad. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] nvu, mozilla designer: why such behaviour ?
Your question may be better posted at http://forum.nvudev.org/ -- Ant... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
I can't change the whole world just for one list. No need to. Even in other mails, there's seldom a need for HTML in mails. I too am interested in useful contexts for html. I just can't think of any situation where I wouldn't use structured text markup in an email. Sure, I might *attach* an html document (or pdf or even, god forbid, an MSWord doc!) but that is different (even if it gets displayed just like a message would...). Maybe I have an old-fashioned view of email but I see more expressive means of communication better served with other technologies (IM, etc.) Cheers Antoine ps. since stopping top-posting on lists I have since stopped top-posting *anywhere*. People who have a list of questions and answer them two posts up without any real reference to the questions are simply poor communicators... and that is certainly what I see a lot of. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] cups printing error
Folks; Just upgraded kde from 3.3.2 to 3.4.1 and now have the following problems: problem 1: can no longer access my block devices from Konqueror. From Konqueror I get a Protocol not supported error when I click on the devices tab. So I can't access my usb disk or even view my partitions from Konqueror. problem 2: can no longer print from the local machine or from my windows pc. I get this error when I attempt to print from either the local box or from windows via samba: -- Unable to print file to `HPPSC2210' - client-error-request-value-too-long -- Any clues, TIA -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Ain't that HTML? Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Alexander Skwar
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao schrieb: On 10/30/05, Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale schrieb: Me too. Badly translated joke. It should read: There are 10 kinds of people. Then it is funny. It takes a bit of time to get the joke, :) It has nothing to do with binary system. :P While we're at the matter of jokes and because it currently fits: Why do programmers get Holloween and Christmas confused? Because oct 31 is the same as dec 25. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly Bostick schrieb: Dale schreef: he's trying to say computers can't count. No, I'm not. The other joke is similar, but goes like this There are 10 kinds of people in the world Those who understand binary, and those who don't (1 is yes in binary language, which only consists of the letters 1 and 0, and is the basis of all computer languages, and 0 means no). Interesting explanation :) I always explained that joke, like this: 10 in binary is 2 in decimal. But if you don't know about binary, you read 10 and might think decimal 10. If you think that, than it's kind of strange to only name 2 types of people. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Replacing Suse on my server.
Hi Anthony, on Sunday, 2005-10-30 at 16:06:47, you wrote: The main reason for my interest in Gentoo was to replace Suse on my server, since it looked promising in the control I have over the installation. My question is this: I want to replace Suse on the server with the minimal amount of server downtime (I won't have time to do a complete installation in one sitting - the Gentoo install I expect to take a number of weeks to set up before it will have the necessary software installed to replace Suse). I'm just in the process of doing the same thing. As quite a few thing will usually need tweaking when configfiles move and things don't quite work the way you're used to, I set up a separate machine to install the whole thing. Configured the kernel for the server hardware already, installed all I need, and currently it's being tested. When it's done, I'll copy the whole HD over, change a few /etc entries and do stuff like activating the DHCP server that I can't do on the test machine yet, and it should be up and running. If you can afford to set another machine aside for a while, that will probably minimize your downtime. regards Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: 90CF8389 Fingerprint: 8E1F 1081 A466 2946 B98A B9E2 099F 3B91 pgpvwj42f4WEP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Antoine schrieb: I can't change the whole world just for one list. No need to. Even in other mails, there's seldom a need for HTML in mails. I too am interested in useful contexts for html. I just can't think of any situation where I wouldn't use structured text markup in an email. Well, if you need more than just *bold*, /italics/ or _underline_. It might make a text easier to read, if important things are highlighted or whatnot. Also, links can be done nicer; eg. a long URL should be linked, but the *TARGET* isn't important but just what's written there. Eg. a href=http://google.com/;searchengine/a or something like that. ps. since stopping top-posting on lists I have since stopped top-posting *anywhere*. People who have a list of questions and answer them two posts up without any real reference to the questions are simply poor communicators... and that is certainly what I see a lot of. Exactly. Actually, I think that this top posting junk only came up, because a certain piece of crap from Microsoft didn't support threading for FAR too long. And without threading, fullquotes are somewhat helpful (and top posts most of the time include a full quote). Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Fine. But where was the gain in sending that mail to which I'm replying to in HTML? Ain't that HTML? Sure. But here, you did not do that. When you do send stuff which requires HTML, go ahead and use it - but it just makes no sense to use it as a default. Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Are you always that egoistic? Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Ain't that HTML? Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Who said anything about 'getting between you and your lady'? That's *personal* mail, and this list, nor any other list, cares what you do in your personal mail. But mail sent to this list is *public* mail, and such public mail has preferences for display and use so that it can reach the widest area of public view possible-- those who read the list via text readers, those who read it via newsgroups (some of which do not accept/display HTML), those who read it via webmail (and some of those don't display HTML either, or only do so with certain browsers, which any given person may or may not be using at that moment), those who read the archives, those who filter it, those who thread it, those who do not have much time and only want to read what they are interested in, and are not going to be scrolling and trimming just to do you a favor... don't forget, you are asking for *help from a stranger*-- that's a favor in anybody's book. Both Alexander and I have shown you how you can 'fix' mail for *this list only*, without bothering any of your other mail, where you can, as I said, do what you like. Nobody cares, or if they do, it's their problem to tell you about. But if you want us to help you, for free, out of the kindness of our hearts, it's not only polite to consider our relatively mild and minor conditions, but worse, it's *impolite* to reject them so violently. Getting on the bad side of those you want aid and succor from is simply dim, in strategic terms. Strategically, as the person who needs help, you want to make it as easy as possible for as many people as possible to read *and understand* your mail, so that they can answer your question. And yes, that means plain-text to reduce irrelevant data and bandwidth; it means appropriately trimming, to reduce wasted time; it means proper subjects and not hijacking threads. You are of course free to ignore these mild conditions, but you may well find that your question goes unanswered, because the people who could answer it could not or would not read your post (they couldn't understand it because it was in the middle of a mixed top- and bottom- posted thread; it was in HTML and they use mutt; it was a hijack-by-subject name of a thread they had filtered so they never saw it; you are now on their 'ignore' list because you're snarking so severely over something so stupid, and they don't read any of your posts). I myself prefer success (getting my question answered) to the 'moral high ground' of doing things the way I want them within a community setting and be damned to the rest of you, but if you prefer it the other way around, that is your right, and you can have the consequences as well, for all of me. But, whatever. I'm really out of this. It's too ridiculous. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar schreef: Holly Bostick schrieb: The other joke is similar, but goes like this There are 10 kinds of people in the world Those who understand binary, and those who don't (1 is yes in binary language, which only consists of the letters 1 and 0, and is the basis of all computer languages, and 0 means no). Interesting explanation :) I always explained that joke, like this: 10 in binary is 2 in decimal. But if you don't know about binary, you read 10 and might think decimal 10. If you think that, than it's kind of strange to only name 2 types of people. Oooh, so it's a double joke (in both binary and decimal). Now I like it even more. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] cups printing error
problem 1: can no longer access my block devices from Konqueror. FromKonqueror I get a Protocol not supported error when I click on the devices tab. So I can't access my usb disk or even view my partitionsfrom Konqueror. It seems you lack the correct kioslaves. When you emerged the split ebuilds, what did you emerge?
Re: [gentoo-user] Replacing Suse on my server.
Matthias Bethke schreef: Hi Anthony, on Sunday, 2005-10-30 at 16:06:47, you wrote: The main reason for my interest in Gentoo was to replace Suse on my server, since it looked promising in the control I have over the installation. My question is this: I want to replace Suse on the server with the minimal amount of server downtime (I won't have time to do a complete installation in one sitting - the Gentoo install I expect to take a number of weeks to set up before it will have the necessary software installed to replace Suse). I'm just in the process of doing the same thing. I would also like to point out that the SuSE installer has a special condition that I have not seen elsewhere: copy your current install to another location. I don't have a server, but I used this function to move my then-current SuSE install from one drive to another (from the emergency drive I had installed when I last broke Gentoo) to a semi-permanent partition on the drive where I now have Gentoo installed). Because the operation was a 'copy' of my current install, it wasn't bad at all in terms of downtime (there were a couple of minor errors, iirc), and I was able to do a normal alternative install from within the SuSE installation. Since the old SuSE installation was redundant, I was able to remove the emergency drive 'immediately' (had I so desired, but I didn't get around to it all that quick, since I was more interested in getting Gentoo installed). Obviously server settings and data are a separate issue, but it seemed relevant to mention the functionality, which seems specific to SuSE. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Ain't that HTML? Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! You're guilty of terrible bad taste :) . I exchange plain text emails with my lady and all my friends, and I filter out any HTML (I force visualization as plain text). If I want to send pictures, I attach them. This way my email is a collection of senseful conversation, not random chromatic noise. m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Fine. But where was the gain in sending that mail to which I'm replying to in HTML? Ain't that HTML? Sure. But here, you did not do that. When you do send stuff which requires HTML, go ahead and use it - but it just makes no sense to use it as a default. Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Are you always that egoistic? Alexander Skwar Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? Dale
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. In that case, you're wasting your own bandwidth, since many of us don't even want the HTML part and plain text is perfectly good enough for this list. If you told Mozmail to just send the text part to this list Edit=Preferences= Composition= Text composition= Send Options button= Plain text domains tab =Add button = type lists.gentoo.org and hit OK it would save you bandwidth and us a headache. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? I wish you'd make up your mind if we are the boss of you or not. We are the unwanted boss of you, since you refuse to just follow a couple of simple steps to produce more satisfactory mail, but now we are the wanted boss of you, who must permit you to unsubscribe to the list? It's your bloody life, if you want to unsubscribe, then do that... you don't need me/us to tell you whether it's OK or not! Holly (who clearly doesn't have enough to do today, if 10 minutes after saying she's out, is back in. Sigh.) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly Bostick wrote: Dale schreef: Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. In that case, you're wasting your own bandwidth, since many of us don't even want the HTML part and plain text is perfectly good enough for this list. If you told Mozmail to just send the text part to this list Edit=Preferences= Composition= Text composition= Send Options button= Plain text domains tab =Add button = type "lists.gentoo.org" and hit OK it would save you bandwidth and us a headache. If I am that big of a headache, so sorry I came here. I used to wonder why more people didn't try to help people that use Linux, I beginning to see why. You join a list and have to turn yourself upside down to please everyone else. It gives me a headache now. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? I wish you'd make up your mind if we are the boss of you or not. We are the unwanted boss of you, since you refuse to just follow a couple of simple steps to produce more satisfactory mail, but now we are the wanted boss of you, who must permit you to unsubscribe to the list? It's your bloody life, if you want to unsubscribe, then do that... you don't need me/us to tell you whether it's OK or not! Sounds fine to me. I came here to see if I could help someone. I guess I'm to big hearted and to easy to get taken advantage of. Oh, I'm the boss of me. When I have had enough, I'm done. Good Bye. Sorry to be such a headache. Dale Holly (who clearly doesn't have enough to do today, if 10 minutes after saying she's out, is back in. Sigh.)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Holly Bostick wrote: Dale schreef: If I am that big of a headache, so sorry I came here. I used to wonder why more people didn't try to help people that use Linux, I beginning to see why. You join a list and have to turn yourself upside down to please everyone else. It gives me a headache now. You are not turning yourself upside down, and you don't have to. Not sending HTML and try not to top-post isn't that hard to do, almost everybody else on this list knows how to do that, and I don't see why you can't. -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: xfce and qt-themes
dumb problem? :D -- Best Regards Peper -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: You are not turning yourself upside down, and you don't have to. Not sending HTML and try not to top-post isn't that hard to do, almost everybody else on this list knows how to do that, and I don't see why you can't. -- Joe Funny, I feel turned upside down. I'm not everybody else either, I'm me. I like to help people but I don't want to change who I am to do it. Is this better? It should be text whatever, not HTML. I'm getting to where I don't want to reply at all. Maybe I don't have enough to offer here. To be really honest, I have only ever used Mozilla mail for this list and have no clue what you guys, and Holly, are talking about with text only stuff. I have never seen a command line email before. I built this rig about three years ago, my first computer that was mine, and picked Linux over windoze. I used to work on computers when windoze came out and I changed careers. I'm disabled, Linux is cheap, no viruses and stable as it gets to boot. I have not regretted picking Linux but I have regretted some other things though, forums and such. I'm only 38 but maybe I'm to old for this stuff. I thought this may be better than the forums but maybe I was wrong. I have been wrong before, a lot. Trusting Doctors was one time I was wrong for sure. No HTML, if it works right. Dale :-) -- This ain't HTML is it? I'm trying to smile anyway. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: You are not turning yourself upside down, and you don't have to. Not sending HTML and try not to top-post isn't that hard to do, almost everybody else on this list knows how to do that, and I don't see why you can't. -- Joe I'm not sure that last one worked right either. It was supposed to ask before sending, it didn't. I added this domain to plain text, something I just lucked up and found in preferences. Maybe this will work. Let me know if it does or not. Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Hi, nobody wants to hurt, harm or insult you. It is just that 95% of all public mailing lists have this two simple rules: no top posting no html A lot of people don't even read html mails, some even get angry about them, so when somebody tells you, not to send them, (s)he does it to help you. The less people reading your mails, the less usefull answers you get. And some mailing lists are very harsh - one html mail and you are the ass of the week for them. Plus, not using html does spare you and everybody else some time sending/receiving your mails, so it is a double win for everybody when you don't use it. That is all. You are, of course, free to send plain text and html, but as I said, most people don't read html mails anyway, so it is just some wasted bandwith. When you are exchanging mails off list, it is a completly different topic. If your friends read html-mails and don't mind receiving them - or even like them, you are free to send them as you like. But mailing lists are a little bit different - because there are a lot of receivers. And did I mention, that some people discard html-mails automatically as spam? So, when you got told not to top post or use html mails, (s)he didn't want to do anything 'bad' to you - the opposite is true, (s)he wants to help you to reach as many other users as possible - which should be what you want, right? Sometimes this 'educating' may sound much harsher than ment - but don't forget, that for a lot of people on this (or every public) mailing list english is only the second or third language - and hitting the right 'tone' is not easy, if you are not a native speaker. So don't feel bad - we all just want to help you, to make the mailing list as productive and helpfull for you as possible. Glück Auf Volker -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure that last one worked right either. It was supposed to ask before sending, it didn't. I added this domain to plain text, something I just lucked up and found in preferences. Maybe this will work. Let me know if it does or not. It worked. :) -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny, I feel turned upside down. I'm not everybody else either, I'm me. I like to help people but I don't want to change who I am to do it. It's just like moving into a new neighbourhood, you have to take your time to get acquainted, it is natural to feel a bit uncomfortable at the begining, but that's not how it is. Once you get used to things, you'll be part of that neighbourhood. People on the list do plaintext messages and stuff not just for themselves, but the entire list. I understand you are here to help, so don't let your effort be undermined simply because others filter HTML messages and you happen to send them out. Is this better? Much better, :) It should be text whatever, not HTML. I'm getting to where I don't want to reply at all. Maybe I don't have enough to offer here. To be really honest, I have only ever used Mozilla mail for this list and have no clue what you guys, and Holly, are talking about with text only stuff. I have never seen a command line email before. I built this rig about three years ago, my first computer that was mine, and picked Linux over windoze. Everyone has something to offer, and everyone will have questions. Again, as I've said, don't let HTML ruin your chance of offering or getting help. I'm not entirely against HTML, but if I'm on a list, I'd follow the list's culture, :) Don't feel isolated, you aren't. We did what we did in the hope that you'll get to know the list, and how things work here quicker, so you can adapt yourself to the list, and begin to see the benefit of it. We aren't trying to drive you away mate, :) We are doing just the opposite. Hope that'll make you feel better. :) -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. Yes, you can setup Mozilla that way. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. HTML most often ist not polite. Especially not, if it's not used - like you just did now. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. Well. No wonder. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Well, not everybody. But the way you're acting, you'll please close to nobody... Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? Do whatever you like. PS: Why did you use HTML for that post? Why did you do a fullquote? Where was the gain in both actions? Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure that last one worked right either. It was supposed to ask before sending, it didn't. I added this domain to plain text, something I just lucked up and found in preferences. Maybe this will work. Let me know if it does or not. It worked. :) I wonder which one worked, the telling it to ask first, which it didn't, or setting the domain thing. If this one works, I don't care which one it is. If everybody is happy, I'm happy to. Everybody is happy right? I can't tell any difference over here. It looks the same to me. scratches head Did it work this time too? I'm confused. It's OK, it's normal for me. Dale :-) --- Not HTML right? I put in : - ) with no spaces. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] people who don't understand binary (was: Re: Quoting styles)
I'll byte. I avoided commenting on this yesterday on the principle that if you have to explain the joke then it's no longer funny, but here's my interpretation. On Oct 31, 2005, at 11:54 am, Holly Bostick wrote: There are 10 kinds of people in the world Those who understand binary, and those who don't This is a common sig on computer forums, and it has always bothered me. Bear in mind that: 0 in binary integer = 0 in decimal 1 in binary integer = 1 in decimal 10 in binary integer = 2 in decimal 11 in binary integer = 3 in decimal So, converting the binary literal English it says: there are two kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary, and those who don't. But it always seemed to me to be out of place on really technical computer forums, because we know that computers don't really use binary. They use two states of voltages which can be represented by 1s and 0s and which can therefore conveniently be used to do binary maths. BUT those 1s and 0s don't HAVE to represent traditional binary numbers, we can use them in any way that's convenient to us - for instance, twos complement may be used for the representation of negative numbers and (in an an 8-bit system) 1000 is the highest number you can have - adding one causes the counter to roll over and represent a negative number. So in the case of there are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary, and those who don't we have the people who don't understand binary, the people who do understand binary... but who are the OTHER PEOPLE mentioned? Look at this again: 10 in binary = 2 in decimal = people who understand binary? 1 in binary = 1 in decimal = people who don't understand binary? 0 in binary = 0 in decimal = who are these people? An explanation of the difference between natural numbers integers is relevant at this point. Back in the old days we counted on the basis of Bill has two cows, Dave has one cow, Joe doesn't have any cows (natural numbers) but once society invented taxmen, accountants bankers these people needed a way to represent doesn't have any cows on their spreadsheets and so zero was invented (Bill: 2 cows, Dave: 1 cows, Joe: 0 cows). When we count in a number-set that includes zero (but not fractions, they're not relevant to this discussion) we're counting in integers. So the phrase there are two kinds of people uses NATURAL numbers: there are one kind of people that understand, a second that don't. Any computer programmer worth his salt knows that using two bits to represent whether people understand binary or not is a waste of a bit - in a database of a million people you've just wasted a meg! Any c programmer would represent this: 1 = people who understand binary 0 = people who don't understand binary or: if ( understands_binary ) printf (Understands binary!); else printf (Doesn't understand binary!); Before you protest that I've turned this into a boolean, however you look at it you only need one bit to represent positive natural numbers of 2 or less. There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. Whilst funny on it's own, my initial reaction was that this could be interpreted as a satirical comment on the binary joke. For me, looking at it like that, it works on a bunch of different levels. Summary: those who can count, those who can't, and those who *think* they understand binary. I really ought to get some work done today, too. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: Hi, nobody wants to hurt, harm or insult you. It is just that 95% of all public mailing lists have this two simple rules: no top posting no html A lot of people don't even read html mails, some even get angry about them, so when somebody tells you, not to send them, (s)he does it to help you. The less people reading your mails, the less usefull answers you get. And some mailing lists are very harsh - one html mail and you are the ass of the week for them. Plus, not using html does spare you and everybody else some time sending/receiving your mails, so it is a double win for everybody when you don't use it. That is all. You are, of course, free to send plain text and html, but as I said, most people don't read html mails anyway, so it is just some wasted bandwith. When you are exchanging mails off list, it is a completly different topic. If your friends read html-mails and don't mind receiving them - or even like them, you are free to send them as you like. But mailing lists are a little bit different - because there are a lot of receivers. And did I mention, that some people discard html-mails automatically as spam? So, when you got told not to top post or use html mails, (s)he didn't want to do anything 'bad' to you - the opposite is true, (s)he wants to help you to reach as many other users as possible - which should be what you want, right? Sometimes this 'educating' may sound much harsher than ment - but don't forget, that for a lot of people on this (or every public) mailing list english is only the second or third language - and hitting the right 'tone' is not easy, if you are not a native speaker. So don't feel bad - we all just want to help you, to make the mailing list as productive and helpfull for you as possible. Glück Auf Volker Thanks, I needed that. Can I assume english is not your native language? The writing was fine, the name gave it away though. I do like to read those who have bad english sometimes. It may take me a minute to figure it out but they need help too. Most would just pass them by and not even try to help. I'm getting there. Thanks again, Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: It's just like moving into a new neighbourhood, you have to take your time to get acquainted, it is natural to feel a bit uncomfortable at the begining, but that's not how it is. Once you get used to things, you'll be part of that neighbourhood. I live in the country, about 10 miles out. I can't throw a rock and hit my closest neighbor. I can't even see them. If things work out with my lady and I move, it will be pretty tough. She lives in apartments in the city. She's that nice. Amazing how a 100 lb lady can move me. O_O Yup, she's tiny. Hope that'll make you feel better. :) It helped. -- Joe Dale :-) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On Monday 31 October 2005 15:43, Dale wrote: Thanks, I needed that. Can I assume english is not your native language? The writing was fine, the name gave it away though. I do like to read those who have bad english sometimes. It may take me a minute to figure it out but they need help too. Most would just pass them by and not even try to help. you are correct, english was my second language (and latin my third). And I was so bad in english that I had to redo 7th grade... ;) Glück Auf Volker -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Sony Picturebook Widescreen framebuffer patch, was: Re: [gentoo-user] The Root Block Device is unspecified or not detected - PCMCIA card CD Boot on Sony Vaio
Hi,
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:48:24 +
Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 30, 2005, at 11:18 am, Hans-Werner Hilse wrote:
I'm running Gentoo on my picturebook happily since about 2 or 3 years
now. Just ask if there are more problems. I can give you a kernel patch
for the neomagic frame buffer driver to have it support the 480px
display height...
I really loved getting the widescreen framebuffer working - it was such
a buzz, so cool. That made for the ultimate in notebook usability and
portability.
I'm copying it here verbatim. It's made against a 2.6.11.n kernel and
may need a little polishing for newer versions, but it follows an easy
path, I've just extended the existing special format for toshiba's
libretto series:
snip---
--- neofb.c 2005-04-30 03:29:00.0 +0200
+++ neofb.c.new 2005-10-31 15:55:05.899735896 +0100
@@ -640,7 +640,7 @@
mode_ok = 1;
break;
case 1024:
- if (var-yres == 768)
+ if (var-yres == (par-libretto ? 480 : 768))
mode_ok = 1;
break;
case 800:
@@ -1684,6 +1684,20 @@
.vmode = FB_VMODE_NONINTERLACED
};
+static struct fb_videomode __devinitdata mode1024x480 = {
+ .xres = 1024,
+ .yres = 480,
+ .pixclock = 21786,
+ .left_margin= 160,
+ .right_margin = 24,
+ .upper_margin = 2,
+ .lower_margin = 0,
+ .hsync_len = 136,
+ .vsync_len = 6,
+ .sync = FB_SYNC_HOR_HIGH_ACT | FB_SYNC_VERT_HIGH_ACT,
+ .vmode = FB_VMODE_NONINTERLACED
+};
+
static int __devinit neo_map_mmio(struct fb_info *info,
struct pci_dev *dev)
{
@@ -1836,10 +1850,15 @@
}
break;
case 0x02:
- // [EMAIL PROTECTED]
par-NeoPanelWidth = 1024;
- par-NeoPanelHeight = 768;
- memcpy(info-monspecs.modedb, vesa_modes[13], sizeof(struct
fb_videomode));
+ if (par-libretto) {
+ par-NeoPanelHeight = 480;
+ memcpy(info-monspecs.modedb, mode1024x480,
sizeof(struct fb_videomode));
+ } else {
+ // [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+ par-NeoPanelHeight = 768;
+ memcpy(info-monspecs.modedb, vesa_modes[13],
sizeof(struct fb_videomode));
+ }
break;
case 0x03:
/* [EMAIL PROTECTED] panel support needs to be added */
snip---
Just use the libretto option (set to 1) and everything will work as
expected.
BTW, @Stroller: it's a 10 widescreen, 6 would be a
little too small...
That's really 10 not 6'??? How come I don't have a girlfriend??
;P
Well, size doesn't matter anyhow, does it ? ;-)
-hwh
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] people who don't understand binary (was: Re: Quoting styles)
Whoa! Are you running for Ubergeek-Of-The-Year award? :D Seriously (haha), your considerations are technically true, but they are of no use in explaining/burning down the famous joke. The sense of the joke is (1)making people that understand binary understand the joke itself and (2)letting other people puzzled about and the other 8? I think you should get some sense of humour done today :) m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: you are correct, english was my second language (and latin my third). And I was so bad in english that I had to redo 7th grade... ;) Glück Auf Volker Don't worry, my english ain't all that great either. Bad part is, I only know english. O_O Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] updates
Yes, it is. JD -Original Message- From: Qian Qiao [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:00 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] updates On 10/30/05, John Dangler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roy~ Thanks for the reply. I actually used genkernel to make the kernel. I used 'genkernel all'. That's why I'm a little confused as to why this didn't take effect. The previous kernel was also built with genkernel and didn't have any problems. Is your /usr/src/linux pointing to the new kernel source? -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale wrote: I can't tell any difference over here. It looks the same to me. scratches head Mozilla/Thunderbird will 'interpret' plain-text messages, so for example when you see this in Thunderbird, you will see that /this is italic/, *this is bold*, and _this is underlined_. No HTML coding necessary. It will also convert '' at the beginning of the line to the vertical lines that you see, and convert known smiley sequences to icons. It will also highlight links for you, and re-justify paragraphs, and probably a dozen or so other things... So it is normal that you would not notice any significant difference between plain-text and (simple) HTML-formatted messages in the normal view. But you can see the differences with View-Message Source. You might want to do this with some messages that you post, just to get an idea of how they really look in plain text. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: I wonder which one worked, the telling it to ask first, which it didn't, or setting the domain thing. I don't know why the asking thing didn't work (I'd have to look, and it's not really important anymore), but the domain thing doesn't have to ask you, because you've told it what to do. Don't worry, there is an explanation of what's going on, but I don't think you want to hear it; rest assured that all is working correctly at this point. snip I can't tell any difference over here. It looks the same to me. scratches head Well, there's nothing but text in this message, so there's no reason it should look different when displayed as HTML or as text (because there's nothing to display *but* text, which looks the same in HTML as it does plain) Did it work this time too? I'm confused. It's OK, it's normal for me. Well, you could look at your headers to see for sure, but that would probably confuse you more; suffice to say I've looked at the header for this mail, and it is plain text. Dale :-) --- Not HTML right? I put in : - ) with no spaces. No, it's not HTML-- a cute trick of Mozilla mail and Thunderbird is the ability to convert known smiley text to a graphic (it's a setting, on by default, but it can be turned off). It appears to me as a yellow smiley face as well (because I use Thunderbird and have the setting on), but to those using command-line email readers, it appears as a text smiley, which those users should be able to recognize just as well as the graphic. :-D Welcome back! Glad you let your huff go off without you :-) . Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] grub ...succeeded -- Wrong!SOLVED
It was a typo in the conf. I had commented out the line: title install GRUB onto the hard disk. --- maxim wexler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everybody, This is too weird. Just did a re-emerge of grub onto a tiny(80M) hd as /dev/hda for /dev/hdb, my main drive. Grub seems to boot OK. When I alternately hit pause and enter in the boot console everything seems to go fine. Everything it looks for is found and loaded; there are no error msgs. The last line says: Running install /grub/stage1 (hd0)(hd0) 1+16 p (hd0,0) grub /stage2 grub/menu.lst...succeeded (I copied it out in longhand, but that seems pretty close). Then the box just reboots. Drawing a blank here. Anybody got a clue? -mw __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: Sony Picturebook Widescreen framebuffer patch, was: Re: [gentoo-user] The Root Block Device is unspecified or not detected - PCMCIA card CD Boot on Sony Vaio
On Oct 31, 2005, at 3:03 pm, Hans-Werner Hilse wrote: I really loved getting the widescreen framebuffer working - it was such a buzz, so cool. That made for the ultimate in notebook usability and portability. I'm copying it here verbatim. It's made against a 2.6.11.n kernel and may need a little polishing for newer versions, but it follows an easy path, I've just extended the existing special format for toshiba's libretto series: Oh, that's cool. I believe they stopped support for the Picturebook's widescreen in the main kernel in 2.4 (around 2.4.20??) so it's good to see it working with a 2.6 kernel. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: ethereal weirdness
Richard Fish bigfish at asmallpond.org writes: ethereal has worked for a long time on my portable. eix says it's installed: You need to add the +gtk use flag. Otherwise you just get tethereal which is the console interface. Well, I've had 'gtk in my make.use file since the beginning. When did this change or start being an inpediment to installation of ethereal? OK, how did you determine this? What did you use to discover this? Back some time ago, ethereal started to die off when I'd enter a capture session (I posted on this but nobody could help). The work around was to edit '~james/.kde3.4/share/config/gtkrc' and comment out line 37: #gtk-alternative-button-order = 1 But this workaround would not survive logging in/out. Your fix worked like a charm and now ethereal survives multiple capture/caputre-end sessions. You are a genius (at least from where I sit). [ebuild R ] net-analyzer/ethereal-0.10.13-r1 -adns +gtk +ipv6 -kerberos -snmp +ssl 0 kB What syntax did you use to generate this listing? I can use 'equery uses ethereal' and it returns this list: --- Invalid atom in /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask: =openal-20051024 [ Searching for packages matching ethereal... ] [ Colour Code : set unset ] [ Legend: Left column (U) - USE flags from make.conf ] [ : Right column (I) - USE flags packages was installed with ] [ Found these USE variables for net-analyzer/ethereal-0.10.13-r1 ] U I - - adns : Adds support for the adns DNS client library + - gtk : Adds support for x11-libs/gtk+ (The GIMP Toolkit) + + ipv6 : Adds support for IP version 6 - - snmp : Adds support for the Simple Network Management Protocol if available + + ssl : Adds support for Secure Socket Layer connections - - kerberos : Adds kerberos support set: gtk ipv6 and ssl are all 'in red'. Does this mean they are required? unset: adns snmp and kerberos are all in blue. Does this mean they are optional? I have not found documents on this color coding with various gentoo tools. Any documental wisdom on discerning these various color coded words in a terminal session? James -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel error messages: gentoo-sources 2.6.13-r5
This changed things, but not for the better. See below. On 10/30/05, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin O'Gorman wrote: 2) The init scripts complain that the system doesn't support DEVFS or UDEV, but a) I thought I *did* have UDEV; I remember a big deal about converting to it. b) at the moment, I can't remember how I got it, and don't see an option for it in the kernel config.Where is it, or where else would it be?This message comes out during init scripts, but before logging starts, so I don'thave the exact text.There is no kernel option for udev.Make sure that the file/dev/.devfsd does not exist.If this file exists, /sbin/rc will disableudev. I got rid of the file, and now X cannot see my mouse, and refuses to start. I think the problem is that it used to be /dev/mouse and is now /dev/input/mouse0 or some such. I'm not sure. I don't know where the Xorg config file is, so I don't know what to change. (I used to know when I used XFree, but I didn't track the whole switchover). 3) Sound: I get this message, but sound works okay.Is it a problem? Can I or should I make the message go away?I have run alsamixer, and set all slidersin the green. Oct 30 13:14:23 treat rc-scripts: Could not detect custom ALSA settings.Loading all detected alsa drivers. Run alsaconf and save the results when prompted. I never get prompted. It just says everything's okay, and quits. The message remains. -Richard--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list-- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: Sometimes this 'educating' may sound much harsher than ment - but don't forget, that for a lot of people on this (or every public) mailing list english is only the second or third language - and hitting the right 'tone' is not easy, if you are not a native speaker. Thanks, I needed that. Can I assume english is not your native language? The writing was fine, the name gave it away though. Tip: the name doesn't give it away, the email address (in combination with the name) does. (Sorry to use you as an example, Volker, but you're a good one for this). Dale, when reading mail in Mozilla (which of course I know you're doing), you might notice in the window where the mail content actually appears, next to the word Subject in the bar above the text of the mail, there's a little white box with a plus sign in it. That bar, for this mail, probably says: Subject: blah blah blah_Holly Bostick_ (as a link, that if you click it, will open up a compsition window addressed to me, so you can curse my name or tell me what a bi-atch I am, or whatever :-) ). The thing is, the designers of this mail program figure you don't necessarily want more information than that right at the outset; you most likely want to read the mail-- and that is most likely true. But you can easily get more information (though still simplified, unless you change certain other settings), by clicking that little white box next to the word Subject. If you do so, the bar containing the *mail header* will be expanded (taking up some of the display room of the mail itself, which is why it's normally not expanded) and you will be able to see the email address of the sender (as well as some other information. There is even more information contained in the headers, but these are 'Normal' headers; to see all the information, you would have to display Full headers, which is not necessary atm). So, getting back to Volker, yes, he has a very German name-- but anybody can have a very German name, if they're of German descent. But if you select a mail from him, and click that little white plus sign, you'll see that his email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm sure you know that .de means Germany, just as the .nl at the end of my email address indicates that I'm in The Netherlands. A guy with a German name, posting from Germany-- that's proof enough for me that Volker is in fact a native German, which of course means that his native language would be German. You'd never know it to talk to him on the list, though :-) . Anyway, this doesn't always work (for example, I'd never be able to guess where you're living from your email address, with its anonymous .net suffix), but it's a good place to start. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel error messages: gentoo-sources 2.6.13-r5
Kevin O'Gorman wrote: I got rid of the file, and now X cannot see my mouse, and refuses to start. I think the problem is that it used to be /dev/mouse and is now /dev/input/mouse0 or some such. I'm not sure. I don't know where the Xorg config file is, so I don't know what to change. (I used to know when I used XFree, but I didn't track the whole switchover). /etc/X11/xorg.conf You might want to try /dev/input/mice Here is the section out of my xorg.conf: Section InputDevice # Identifier and driver IdentifierMouse1 Drivermouse Option ProtocolIMPS/2 Option Device /dev/input/mice Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 Option ChordMiddle -- Ted Ozolins(VE7TVO) Westbank, B. C -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
Hey, all, Sorry that this will not be an extremely clear question, but I really have no idea where to start, or what the problem is. Basically, my system is running fine (no overt problems), but about every 30 seconds or so, it 'pauses' to do something, and I have to wait for 5-10 seconds while it does it before I can go further. Or the display pauses, and I have to wait for the redraw , I can't tell which. The system is still running during these pauses, but if I'm typing this mail, for example, the letters I typed during the pause will not appear until the system resumes (or resumes displaying). If I then backspace to remove the typos I made when I couldn't see what I was typing, if a pause occurs during the repeated backspace hitting, I have to stop and wait, since I can't know where the cursor actually is until it again active. Gkrellm's animated displays pause during the pauses as well (which is a bit useful, so that I know when they're happening). Changing desktops is delayed, Page down in word processors is delayed, activities in the console are delayed. Heck, even dragging cards around in AisleRiot is delayed by these stupid unattributable pauses. Memory and CPU use are not bizarre, I have a lot of processes going, but nothing weird or unexpected seems to be running if I can trust top and gnome-system-monitor. Since all the problems seem to be related to the X server, maybe it's an X problem; I'm currently using the VESA driver, as I wanted to get a clean install of the new ATI drivers when I compile the next kernel (2.13-r5, I'm using 2.13-r4 atm). I'm not using anything but 2D applications atm, though (of course, since I have no 3D-capable drivers available). But maybe it's a kernel scheduling problem. Or maybe gamin sucks, halting the whole system while it updates the file tree. I really have no idea, and if it wasn't so very annoying, I wouldn't post such a formless plea for help, but if this rings a bell with anyone, I'd appreciate a nudge/push/shove in the right direction. Thanks, Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Hylafax e-mail
Mark whitetr6 at gmail.com writes: Has anyone set up a Hylafax server along with a mail system on the same server? Did you look at: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_FAX_Server or http://www.linuxhowtos.org/System/faxserver.htm these result of googling with: +hylafax +postscript +gentoo hth, James -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: ethereal weirdness
* On 31.10.2005 James wrote: [ebuild R ] net-analyzer/ethereal-0.10.13-r1 -adns +gtk +ipv6 -kerberos -snmp +ssl 0 kB What syntax did you use to generate this listing? ,- | % emerge -pv ethereal | | These are the packages that I would merge, in order: | | Calculating dependencies ...done! | [ebuild N] net-analyzer/ethereal-0.10.13-r1 -adns -gtk \ | -ipv6 -kerberos -snmp +ssl 9,974 kB `- So long, tkr -- You love your home and want it to be beautiful. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
On Monday 31 October 2005 18:24, Holly Bostick wrote: Hey, all, Sorry that this will not be an extremely clear question, but I really have no idea where to start, or what the problem is. Basically, my system is running fine (no overt problems), but about every 30 seconds or so, it 'pauses' to do something, and I have to wait for 5-10 seconds while it does it before I can go further. Or the display pauses, and I have to wait for the redraw , I can't tell which. The system is still running during these pauses, but if I'm typing this mail, for example, the letters I typed during the pause will not appear until the system resumes (or resumes displaying). If I then backspace to remove the typos I made when I couldn't see what I was typing, if a pause occurs during the repeated backspace hitting, I have to stop and wait, since I can't know where the cursor actually is until it again active. Gkrellm's animated displays pause during the pauses as well (which is a bit useful, so that I know when they're happening). Changing desktops is delayed, Page down in word processors is delayed, activities in the console are delayed. Heck, even dragging cards around in AisleRiot is delayed by these stupid unattributable pauses. Memory and CPU use are not bizarre, I have a lot of processes going, but nothing weird or unexpected seems to be running if I can trust top and gnome-system-monitor. Since all the problems seem to be related to the X server, maybe it's an X problem; I'm currently using the VESA driver, as I wanted to get a clean install of the new ATI drivers when I compile the next kernel (2.13-r5, I'm using 2.13-r4 atm). I'm not using anything but 2D applications atm, though (of course, since I have no 3D-capable drivers available). But maybe it's a kernel scheduling problem. Or maybe gamin sucks, halting the whole system while it updates the file tree. I really have no idea, and if it wasn't so very annoying, I wouldn't post such a formless plea for help, but if this rings a bell with anyone, I'd appreciate a nudge/push/shove in the right direction. Thanks, Holly sounds like no DMA enabled mar bin # hdparm /dev/hdb /dev/hdb: multcount= 16 (on) IO_support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq= 1 (on) --using_dma= 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead= 256 (on) geometry = 19929/255/63, sectors = 320173056, start = 0 martins -- Linux 2.6.13 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ 18:47:06 up 3:55, 5 users, load average: 0.10, 0.22, 0.51 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Apache 1.3.34 ebuild
Hello list I need to update Apache 1.3.33 to Apache 1.3.34 but I cant find an ebuild for that version, Why 1.3.34 ebuild is not in portage? Is unstable?? Is there a way to install apache 1.3.34 without and ebuild and without crash portage? Or I have to make my own ebuild? tnks -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] ext3: 10% non-contiguous
Hi, Each 20 times that my hard disk is mounted, my ext3 partition (is the only one that I have) gets checked for inconsistencies. On the last times that that task has been runned, it tells me that ~ (more or less) the 10% of the filesystem is non-contiguous. I suppose that the problem is that I've saved and then deleted some files really big, and there's a hole. Well, I'd like to recover those holes (that 10% of the disk) and how to do it, because I've tried with e2fsck with different options and read man e2fsck with no possitive results. Thanks, Rafael Fernández López. -- A la vista de suficientes ojos todos los errores resultan evidentes - Linus Torvalds -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Apache 1.3.34 ebuild
Hello list I need to update Apache 1.3.33 to Apache 1.3.34 but I cant find an ebuild for that version, Why 1.3.34 ebuild is not in portage? Is unstable?? Is there a way to install apache 1.3.34 without and ebuild and without crash portage? Or I have to make my own ebuild? tnks -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] wiping unused space and/or secure erasing of files
Alexander Skwar, who happens to be smarter than you, thinks: Dale schrieb: Those forensics folks sure are good though. I have heard they can get it back even after you have wrote alternating 1's and 0's to the drive a dozen times. Where have you heard that? I don't think they can do that. Yes, they can. In a magnetic medium they are techniques to identify when a sector are storing an 0, and before that 0 was an 1 and before that another 1... I suppose is a high precision measurement of magnetic freqs. -- People humiliating a salami! -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
Martins Steinbergs schreef: On Monday 31 October 2005 18:24, Holly Bostick wrote: Basically, my system is running fine (no overt problems), but about every 30 seconds or so, it 'pauses' to do something, and I have to wait for 5-10 seconds while it does it before I can go further. Or the display pauses, and I have to wait for the redraw , I can't tell which. snip Memory and CPU use are not bizarre, I have a lot of processes going, but nothing weird or unexpected seems to be running if I can trust top and gnome-system-monitor. Since all the problems seem to be related to the X server, maybe it's an X problem; I'm currently using the VESA driver, as I wanted to get a clean install of the new ATI drivers when I compile the next kernel (2.13-r5, I'm using 2.13-r4 atm). I'm not using anything but 2D applications atm, though (of course, since I have no 3D-capable drivers available). But maybe it's a kernel scheduling problem. Or maybe gamin sucks, halting the whole system while it updates the file tree. sounds like no DMA enabled mar bin # hdparm /dev/hdb /dev/hdb: multcount= 16 (on) IO_support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq= 1 (on) --using_dma= 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead= 256 (on) geometry = 19929/255/63, sectors = 320173056, start = 0 Would that it was so simple: hdparm /dev/hda /dev/hda: multcount= 16 (on) IO_support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq= 1 (on) using_dma= 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead= 256 (on) geometry = 65535/16/63, sectors = 80060424192, start = 0 hdparm /dev/hdb /dev/hdb: multcount= 16 (on) IO_support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq= 1 (on) using_dma= 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead= 256 (on) geometry = 16383/255/63, sectors = 82348277760, start = 0 hdparm /dev/hdc /dev/hdc: IO_support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq= 1 (on) using_dma= 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead= 256 (on) HDIO_GETGEO failed: Invalid argument hdparm /dev/hdd /dev/hdd: multcount= 16 (on) IO_support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq= 1 (on) using_dma= 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead= 256 (on) geometry = 65535/16/63, sectors = 40027029504, start = 0 But thanks; I wouldn't have thought to check/confirm that DMA was (still) on. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How to work with etc-updates.
On Thursday 01 September 2005 04:09 am, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:16:55 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: 2) If it's a file in /etc/initd then I update it automatically. This rule is still true. I am not a programmer and will never edit an init script. For me these are 100% updated ASAP. Add /etc/init.d to CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK in /etc/make.conf and they'll be updated even sooner. Speaking of, CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK, how can I remove /etc/env.d from it? I don't want ebuilds overwriting my environment tweaks that I've added. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] How to get debug info when umount fails
I notice whenever mounted shares or external drives etc. (Etc here only includes cifs mounted shares of msOS origin). And something unforseen happens before they are umounted properly, like powered down disconnected reboot etc) Those mount points will fail a umount. And even when share becomes available again the mount point is no longer functioning. umounting with the -l option does take the mount point out of the `mount' output but it can be as long as an hr before the mount point is again mountable. I want to know what is happening there. A restart of samba has no noticable effect. What can I do to hasten the remountability of shares in that condition? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] OT: top quotes, html mail, and binary jokes
If only Gentoo were more complicated to administrate we'd have less time for discussing mathematical jokes (funny), html mail (a crutch of dubious usefulness for the inarticulate), and top posting (I blame Pine). vorga Damn you Pooorrrageee!!! /vorga Since these subjects come up every six weeks (well the math is new) like clockwork, perhaps it is time to create a FAQ detailing the arguments and generally agreed on conclusions we'll all seen countless times. kashani, anxiously awaiting the drawn out discussion this may provoke, but willing to live with that if something actually gets done. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: top quotes, html mail, and binary jokes
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, kashani wrote: usefulness for the inarticulate), and top posting (I blame Pine). Why? -- Jorge Almeida -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] wiping unused space and/or secure erasing of files/ Is this irrelevent?
Matthias Bethke wrote: Hi Hemmann,, on Sunday, 2005-10-30 at 19:05:20, you wrote: Oh, no doubt that they can recover from burned platters. But have you ever seen, that they can recover overwritten data? not seen, but read about it. They can recover overwritten data. Maybe those overwritten once with a simple pattern. Not after a dozen times with random bits, no way. I've only heard the opposite - that they CANNOT do that. maybe you should ask one of the forensic/data saving companies that do this all day. They don't. Recovering overwritten data is as easy as recovering from damaged drives. Basically, you need a very, very sensitive magnetic coil ;) If you've ever seen the noisy output of a regular coil reading regular data you start wondering how it comes out the same error-free sequence in the first place. Recovering data from damaged drives isn't exactly easy either, but they're still on the platters. Finding an overwritten signal under several others is magnitues harder. On the original question: for wiping free space, a repeated dd if=/dev/urandom of=/path/to/file bs=4096 should be suffcicient, if slow. To just wipe unused data to reduce the sice of a compressed image, I do the same with /dev/zero. It fills the whole partition with a file full of zeroes that you can remove afterwards. It's not quite as efficient as really zeroing all free blocks but it works on every FS and should even be unaffected by journaling. regards Matthias I am wondering if this discussion is irrelevent to anonymity and/or security, as if the /tmp and swap partitions are not dealt with, then what use is a secure erase? Rob -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] local portage server
On Friday 28 October 2005 14:23, Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:14:33 -0500, John Jolet wrote:
You should have got that when you synced the server with one of the
Gentoo mirrors. the file is at ${PORTDIR}/metadata/timestamp.chk
should have been loaded in with an emerge --sync? or an rsync of the
whole tree from one of the mirrors?
emerge --sync
Thanks for the help. Turned out I had set up the module definition wrong in
my rsyncd.conf. I've now got both emerge --sync working using this as the
sync source, and have it set up as the mirror source for installs, using
rsync, instead of wget.
Thanks again for the help.
--
John Jolet
Your On-Demand IT Department
512-762-0729
www.jolet.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] What list for Mac Mini?
Hi, What Gentoo email list is best for Mac Mini questions? Is that the gentoo-ppc list or something else? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: top quotes, html mail, and binary jokes
Jorge Almeida wrote: On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, kashani wrote: usefulness for the inarticulate), and top posting (I blame Pine). Why? The semi-factual answer is because bottom posting was the norm until Pine appeared on the scene or at least that's the story according to apocryphal Internet legend... it might even be true. However I thought the contrast of the simple and unexplained I blame Pine against the flowery a crutch of dubious usefulness for the inarticulate worked well and added a light tone calculated (in my mind at least) to invite discussion rather than flames. Also the Pine story has been brought up on this list before IIRC so it served the dual purpose of letting those who have been around for the past year know that I actually read these tired, boring discussions. All that packed into a simple statement, who knew? And while I'm being talkative I'd like to second what Holly and a few others have hinted at. Command of language is essential. As someone who stumbled into the admin/network business nine years ago I can say that my writing and language skills, specifically the lack of either, did far more to hold my career back than any missing technical skills. kashani, still trying to get his German, Spanish, and Farsi up to speed -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What list for Mac Mini?
On Monday 31 October 2005 18:35, Mark Knecht wrote: What Gentoo email list is best for Mac Mini questions? Is that the gentoo-ppc list or something else? ppc-user is all but dead. Installing really isn't anymore difficult than normal though, and google has answered all my questions. -- Mike Williams -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: top quotes, html mail, and binary jokes
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, kashani wrote: Jorge Almeida wrote: On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, kashani wrote: usefulness for the inarticulate), and top posting (I blame Pine). Why? The semi-factual answer is because bottom posting was the norm until Pine appeared on the scene or at least that's the story according to apocryphal Internet legend... it might even be true. However I thought the contrast of the simple and unexplained I blame Pine against the flowery a crutch of dubious usefulness for the inarticulate worked well and added a light tone calculated (in my mind at least) to invite discussion rather than flames. Also the Pine story has been brought up on this list before IIRC so it served the dual purpose of letting those who have been around for the past year know that I actually read these tired, boring discussions. All that packed into a simple statement, who knew? Maybe many pine users don't realize they can use their favorite editor to compose mail. I hated pine until I found I can use vim as editor instead of pico. With vim it's easy to navigate through the message and trim it. No excuse for top posting---I wouldn't be surprised if some top posters did it due to their editor's clumsiness. And while I'm being talkative I'd like to second what Holly and a few others have hinted at. Command of language is essential. As someone who stumbled into the admin/network business nine years ago I can say that my writing and language skills, specifically the lack of either, did far more to hold my career back than any missing technical skills. Indeed, life is harder for those of us who don't have English as first language. kashani, still trying to get his German, Spanish, and Farsi up to speed Good luck. -- Jorge Almeida -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
Hi, On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:24:26 +0100 Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Basically, my system is running fine (no overt problems), but about every 30 seconds or so, it 'pauses' to do something, and I have to wait for 5-10 seconds while it does it before I can go further. Or the display pauses, and I have to wait for the redraw , I can't tell which. It all gets down to the question whether it stays in Userland or in Kernel context in such a situation. If this happens in Userland, CPU utilization will probably be high in such a situation and it must be due to a high priority process when X is that much slowed down - which itself is already running at high prio. So I very much guess it's a kernel issue. Compiling a fresh new one would be my first advice. BTW, are you using any kernel based network filesystems (NFS, Samba, ncpfs), FUSE, or PPP? The trick here would be to simply selectively disable each one of these and watch if it keeps happening. -hwh -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How to get debug info when umount fails
Hi, On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:36:56 -0600 Harry Putnam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I want to know what is happening there. A restart of samba has no noticable effect. It can't, it only manages server side. Client side is done by the kernel. What can I do to hasten the remountability of shares in that condition? Hm, did you try umount -f? -hwh -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] people who don't understand binary
brullo nulla wrote: Whoa! Are you running for Ubergeek-Of-The-Year award? :D Seriously (haha), your considerations are technically true, but they are of no use in explaining/burning down the famous joke. The sense of the joke is (1)making people that understand binary understand the joke itself and (2)letting other people puzzled about and the other 8? I think you should get some sense of humour done today :) m. I think that we all took far too much acid back in the sixties. And I wasn't even born then! :-) Antoine -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
* Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-10-31 18:50]: Hey, all, Hi, [...] Since all the problems seem to be related to the X server, maybe it's an X problem; So have you tried it without X running? Robert -- Robert Svoboda [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What list for Mac Mini?
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:35:26 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: What Gentoo email list is best for Mac Mini questions? Is that the gentoo-ppc list or something else? Questions specific to PPC hardware go to gentoo-ppc, CPU-independent questions belong here. gentoo-ppc is very quiet. -- Neil Bothwick No program done by a hacker will work unless he is on the system. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
Robert Svoboda schreef: * Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-10-31 18:50]: Hey, all, Hi, [...] Since all the problems seem to be related to the X server, maybe it's an X problem; So have you tried it without X running? Not yet; can't kill X without killing a couple of high-priority jobs (both in computer terms and in RL terms), otherwise I would have tried that. But it's a fair question. On that note, though; what the heck could I do to test, without X? I can't think of much else than running a movie under command-line mPlayer, and while that sounds like a pretty valid test as far as it goes, I'm not sure it goes far enough to be adequate. What else could I do alongside it, other than running an emerge or something? Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] initial startup time of programs like emerge
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have 4 gentoo systems. Three are 1-3 years old, the fourth has just been rebooted for the first time after installing gento 2005.1 on it. When I reboot any of the older three computers and simply type emerge it takes 14 to 20 seconds before I get a message from emerge. On the fourth computer this takes only 2 seconds or so. A second emerge commands on all machines retunrs quickly. Just to see if some kind of defragmentation might help, I made a full copy of my root partition to a new one, altered grub.conf and restarted. Emerge startup time improved from 20 to 14 seconds which is still rather slow. Programs like mplayer show simular initial startup times. All computer are athlon 1600-2000 based, and have hard disks tat read about 38 mb/s according to hdparm. Is there a way to speed up initial program load times? How much memory do these machines have? No matter what you answer, I have seen improvement with using -Os in my CFLAGS. This makes the executables optimized for size (-O2 without optimizations that increase size IIRC). This means that binaries read from disk faster, as they are smaller and that they also take less RAM, reducing the need for swap, should the system be using it. As always, YMMV. Tom Veldhouse -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Apple external booting (WAS: What list for Mac Mini?)
On 10/31/05, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:35:26 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: What Gentoo email list is best for Mac Mini questions? Is that the gentoo-ppc list or something else? Questions specific to PPC hardware go to gentoo-ppc, CPU-independent questions belong here. gentoo-ppc is very quiet. -- Neil Bothwick Mike and Neil, Thanks for the response. Since that list is quiet right now I'll try here first. It's not specifically a PPC question but more about the way an Apple boots. I have a new Mac Mini and I'm learning about OS X. One fun thing is that the Ardour folks have written ports for Jack (called jackosx) and Ardour so I can actually run Ardour under OS X with X11 support. Cool. The second cool thing that I love about Apple is their ability to boot from external drives. I've built a second copy of OS X on an external 1394 drive and can boot from that instead of the internal drive. Very cool. My question is whether I can put Gentoo on the external drive and get Apple's Open Firmware to boot Gentoo. I do not really want to put Gentoo on the internal drive, at least right now. I'd love to be able to use an external drive to boot to Gentoo instead of OS X. Can this be done? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Optimal time to 'emerge world'?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Just wondering if there was an optimal time to update one's system. Meaning, is there a global/bulk cvs commit done once a day, that we should wait for? Especially concerned about security patches - can we *safely* assume that if the GLSA is out, that the updated versions are available? - -- gentux echo hfouvyAdpy/ofu | perl -pe 's/(.)/chr(ord($1)-1)/ge' gentux's gpg fingerprint == 34CE 2E97 40C7 EF6E EC40 9795 2D81 924A 6996 0993 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDZpWhLYGSSmmWCZMRAqgoAJ4q/dUh/43S97HtWeHXWnKbQCryMgCfWtJU DHruPeigZ/5rcNlu0Dk3CUY= =x5Si -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Apple external booting (WAS: What list for Mac Mini?)
On Monday 31 October 2005 22:02, Mark Knecht wrote: My question is whether I can put Gentoo on the external drive and get Apple's Open Firmware to boot Gentoo. I do not really want to put Gentoo on the internal drive, at least right now. I'd love to be able to use an external drive to boot to Gentoo instead of OS X. I don't know, but reckon you can. Do you know why I think that? I can use my apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse with no linux bluetooth support, use them to install gentoo from the livecd, and even get it to boot from cd (hold c while turning it on). Also, yaboot ultimately references openfirmware device names, which should be available at power on. -- Mike Williams -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Optimal time to 'emerge world'?
On Monday 31 October 2005 22:07, gentuxx wrote: Just wondering if there was an optimal time to update one's system. Meaning, is there a global/bulk cvs commit done once a day, that we should wait for? Especially concerned about security patches - can we *safely* assume that if the GLSA is out, that the updated versions are available? No. CVS commits happen as and when developers make them. GLSAs come out a relatively long time after the ebuilds hit the tree to negate, as well as, that happening. -- Mike Williams -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: top quotes, html mail, and binary jokes
And while I'm being talkative I'd like to second what Holly and a few others have hinted at. Command of language is essential. As someone who stumbled into the admin/network business nine years ago I can say that my writing and language skills, specifically the lack of either, did far more to hold my career back than any missing technical skills. Indeed, life is harder for those of us who don't have English as first language. kashani, still trying to get his German, Spanish, and Farsi up to speed In a way I am glad to have English as a native language but in others most decidedly not. Can you imagine how hard it is to learn another language when everyone wants to speak English to you? I even speak a bastard dialect (linguisticly one of the purest but where have the standards gone!) and that doesn't help... I speak a few languages and am pretty good at accents (by far the best way to get people to forget you are a foreigner) but still get frustrated with the eagerness with which people switch to English with me. My philosophy has always been when in Rome but anyway... I guess Rome is now the internet. Salem, Antoine ps. I have just started Arabic - Sabah lkhair! It's not morning but unfortunately the Al-Jazeerah website seems to only stream... wma! (Haven't got to evening yet!) argh! and gentoo+mplayer/xine doesn't like it... and I thought it was a libre thinking news source! pps. any hints on getting al-jazeera (audio of their news channel) to work? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Kernel Version
hi, I have found that, even after various attempts, I can not make my system use the new kernel I have just compiled. I proceeded in the following order: first: emerge gentoo-sources then: cd /usr/src ls linux linux-2.6.13-gentoo-r5 ln -sf linux-2.6.13-gentoo-r5 linux then: make menuconfig and make make modules_install then change /etc/lilo.conf to the new(and only) kernel yet still: uname -r 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 Why? This was during an attempt to compile Beagle. Karsten
Re: [gentoo-user] Apple external booting (WAS: What list for Mac Mini?)
On 10/31/05, Mike Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 31 October 2005 22:02, Mark Knecht wrote: My question is whether I can put Gentoo on the external drive and get Apple's Open Firmware to boot Gentoo. I do not really want to put Gentoo on the internal drive, at least right now. I'd love to be able to use an external drive to boot to Gentoo instead of OS X. I don't know, but reckon you can. Do you know why I think that? I can use my apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse with no linux bluetooth support, use them to install gentoo from the livecd, and even get it to boot from cd (hold c while turning it on). Also, yaboot ultimately references openfirmware device names, which should be available at power on. -- Mike Williams So I'm game to give it a try. You say I need to hold c when I power on to get it to see the Gentoo PPC install disk? yaboot is the Apple boot loader? Like grub? (I'm a total Apple newbie) Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel Version
On Monday 31 October 2005 22:41, karlos wrote: then change /etc/lilo.conf to the new(and only) kernel You didn't re-run lilo. -- Mike Williams -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel Version
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2005-10-31 22:41 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: make make modules_install then change /etc/lilo.conf to the new(and only) kernel You need to copy the new bzImage (arch/*/boot/bzImage) into place, and re-run lilo for the changes to take effect. - -- Michael Kjörling, [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://michael.kjorling.com/ * ASCII Ribbon Campaign: Against HTML Mail, Proprietary Attachments * * . No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings . * -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDZqBvdY+HSb3praYRAsnrAKCbhRTGYY+muDpZHZX/rqUTqN3AZACgpLdt Zu5crDlJIUnc/aUu1iZt/OY= =vUHn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Apple external booting (WAS: What list for Mac Mini?)
On Monday 31 October 2005 22:41, Mark Knecht wrote: So I'm game to give it a try. You say I need to hold c when I power on to get it to see the Gentoo PPC install disk? yaboot is the Apple boot loader? Like grub? (I'm a total Apple newbie) yaboot is the linux ppc bootloader, more akin to lilo than grub though. It requires a special bootloader partition, that is 800k (you don't get any option on size, it's 800k), and it must go *before* the OSX partition (luckily, OSX doesn't care if it's partition number changes, so you can move it around). I was able to resize, and move my OSX partition. I think I used mac-fdisk to resize, and parted to move. You can do the rest of the install without harming OSX in anyway obviously, just not boot it :) -- Mike Williams -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Apple external booting (WAS: What list for Mac Mini?)
On 10/31/05, Mike Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 31 October 2005 22:41, Mark Knecht wrote: So I'm game to give it a try. You say I need to hold c when I power on to get it to see the Gentoo PPC install disk? yaboot is the Apple boot loader? Like grub? (I'm a total Apple newbie) yaboot is the linux ppc bootloader, more akin to lilo than grub though. It requires a special bootloader partition, that is 800k (you don't get any option on size, it's 800k), and it must go *before* the OSX partition (luckily, OSX doesn't care if it's partition number changes, so you can move it around). I was able to resize, and move my OSX partition. I think I used mac-fdisk to resize, and parted to move. You can do the rest of the install without harming OSX in anyway obviously, just not boot it :) -- Mike Williams Thanks for the info. So if yaboot is on the internal drive already then yaboot can get to an external drive as easily as internal, right? I'm thinking is sort of like /dev/sda is the internal drive with it's OS x partitions. Yaboot is there. /dev/sdb is my external 1394 drive. Tell yaboot to go there and it finds a Gentoo kernel to boot? Or is it more complicated? Does yaboot want to find an Apple kernel to jump to? An individual on the gentoo-ppc channel pointed me here: http://hansmi.ch/articles/boot-linux-from-firewire He suggested all of this stuff is possible. Seems pretty cool. The reason I'm interested is that I could use the 1394 drive as a data drive running Ardour and do my tracking under x86 Gentoo. Later I could move the drive to the Mac Mini and do my mix down under either Gentoo or OS X. One drive - two machines - three OS's. Fun. thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ext3: 10% non-contiguous
Rafael Fernández López wrote: ~ (more or less) the 10% of the filesystem is non-contiguous. I suppose that the problem is that I've saved and then deleted some files really big, and there's a hole. Well, I'd like to recover those holes (that 10% of the disk) There are no holes, there is nothing to recover. It just means that 10% of the files are not allocated as a single contiguous string of blocks, which makes reading these files just a little bit slower. Nothing to worry about. If you really want to defrag the file system, then copy everything to another partition, recreate the file system, and copy everything back: cd /parti1; tar -cf - . | (cd /parti2; tar -xpvf -) But this isn't worth the time it costs. Benno -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel Version
Did you mount /boot -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel Version
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:41:50 +, karlos wrote: I have found that, even after various attempts, I can not make my system use the new kernel I have just compiled. I proceeded in the following order: first: emerge gentoo-sources then: cd /usr/src ls linux linux-2.6.13-gentoo-r5 rm linux ln -sf linux-2.6.13-gentoo-r5 linux ln will not overwrite an existing directory symlink. Or make it easier by setting the symlink USE flag. then: make menuconfig and make make modules_install You forgot make install then change /etc/lilo.conf to the new(and only) kernel Rerun lilo after changing lilo.conf. Or if you can't remember to do that every time, use GRUB :) -- Neil Bothwick GOTO: (n.) an efficient and general way of controlling a program, much despised by academics and others whose brains have been ruined by overexposure to Pascal. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel Version
On Monday 31 October 2005 23:41, karlos wrote: hi, I have found that, even after various attempts, I can not make my system use the new kernel I have just compiled. I proceeded in the following order: first: emerge gentoo-sources then: cd /usr/src ls linux linux-2.6.13-gentoo-r5 ln -sf linux-2.6.13-gentoo-r5 linux then: make menuconfig and make make modules_install then change /etc/lilo.conf to the new(and only) kernel yet still: uname -r 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 Why? This was during an attempt to compile Beagle. you forgot: 'make install' or better: 'make all modules_install install' and everything will be fine - if your lilo-conf points to 'vmlinuz' and 'vmlinuz.old' of course. It will even rerun lilo for you. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel Version
On Monday 31 October 2005 23:53, Michael Kjorling wrote: On 2005-10-31 22:41 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: make make modules_install then change /etc/lilo.conf to the new(and only) kernel You need to copy the new bzImage (arch/*/boot/bzImage) into place, and re-run lilo for the changes to take effect. no he does not. He only needs to run 'make install' which will do the copying and lilo-rerun. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: top quotes, html mail, and binary jokes
Antoine schreef: Indeed, life is harder for those of us who don't have English as first language. kashani, still trying to get his German, Spanish, and Farsi up to speed Can you imagine how hard it is to learn another language when everyone wants to speak English to you? We used to complain about this *all the time* at Taalschool (the year-long Dutch as A Second Language course that is required by the government as part of the conditions for granting a Permit of Stay). Many of us lived with Dutch people (certainly those of us who were in the country because we were married to one), and of course that means family and neighbors and other contacts who were native Dutch speakers... but we found it universally difficult to get said native speakers to help us by speaking Dutch (preferably slowly), or (heaven forfend) helping us with our homework and the like, because they all wanted to improve or show off their English/Russian/French. Of course it's tiring for everyone, trying to have a conversation and having the subject under discussion interrupted by constant grammatical correction, and it's not really helpful to hold said conversations in the other language for purposes of clarity, but often necessary when new to the second language. But it was clear to us that the amount of practice time we were getting from our 'aces in the hole' was far less than could be explained by those excuses. We all found it very frustrating. Of course, now that I have a fair working knowledge of Dutch, my personal Dutchman helps me a lot more. Can't say I don't appreciate it, but I could have used the help more two years ago. I suspect that this expectation of (to my mind, rather excessive) self-reliance is common across Europe, though the Dutch may be a bit stricter about it than other European cutural groups. So once you get over the 'novelty hump', it should get better :-) . Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Hylafax e-mail
yes, I looked at them. The question wasn't really how-to as much as to get some real world feedback. Wikis while usually helpful tend to be full of errors IMHO. Thanks, MarkOn 10/31/05, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark whitetr6 at gmail.com writes: Has anyone set up a Hylafax server along with a mail system on the same server?Did you look at: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_FAX_Serverorhttp://www.linuxhowtos.org/System/faxserver.htmthese result of googling with:+hylafax +postscript +gentoo hth,James--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list-- Mark[unwieldy legal disclaimer would go here - feel free to type your own]
Re: [gentoo-user] Optimal time to 'emerge world'?
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:07:30 -0800 gentuxx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Just wondering if there was an optimal time to update one's system. | Meaning, is there a global/bulk cvs commit done once a day, that we | should wait for? Especially concerned about security patches - can we | *safely* assume that if the GLSA is out, that the updated versions are | available? Under normal circumstances, CVS to rsync runs every half hour, with up to an hour and a half(?)'s lag depending upon which rsync mirror you use. As for commits, most of us are European or American, so there're a few hours in the day (~UTC0500) when things are really quiet, but apart from that there's no real timing. -- Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron) Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm pgpqTOd6ix3iT.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] LTSP vs. Diskless Nodes
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:55:24 +0200 Uwe Thiem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the big problems with Linux diskless is it really doesn't scale well, it doesn't allow for clients to run multiple versions of the os, Why would you want to do that? Ah! Not everyone would. But there are some who run realtime flight simulators where the main Gfx system use 3 to 7 Gfx pipes to provide a 180 degree to 270 degree view, puling in 1 TB or so of texture data during the sim. This Gfx system has the problem of needing proprietary drivers for both the SAN and the Gfx cards, so it's selection of OS may be limited to a certain range, while the PCs that drive the instruments don't need access to the SAN, and the 32P realtime server that runs the ssimulation and controls the simulator reacts to the pilots inputs, weather setup, etc., also doesn't need data from the san, but has needs as to what's the best kernel to run for realtime simulation vs. realtime Gfx. And all this is booted off a 2P diskless server where the limits of what's seen by pilots and perhaps maintainence crew is determined by whether they are running commerical, military, or private aircraft that day. The diskless server could be any 64-bit capable 2P unit, wile the Gfx system would be a multi-pipe ia64 system, the 32P realtime system could be an ia64 or an x86-64 system and the PCs would be standard x86, probably running WinXX and Linux. A typical LTSP server doesn't export /usr at all. There is no need for it. The client runs a kernel and an X server. If you want local devices to work, it also needs to run some other small daemons. All *applications* run on the server. And this is a critical difference between LTSP - thin client serving, vs. a full diskless client where the applications run on the client. Sometimes one works fine (LTSP) for the needs. But other needs requires a different approach. My experiences with LTSP so far show: With a server like mentioned at the begin and fast ethernet, up to 20 clients are working well if you don't allow too graphics-intensive apps like movie players or that type of games. For more clients (up to 40), you need more ram on the server and a Gb connection between the server and the switch (clients can remain on 100Mb ethernet, of course). A typical setup I run for testing has a 2P 600 MHz MIPS system with 512MB ram as the server, serving 6 1P and 2P Gfx system, with the Gfx systems running 6 different OpenGL apps, along with floating point work, local disk DMA and Xwindow DMA on all the clients. One customer of ours runs 11 CAD systems off a single 2P diskless server. For small businesses, I prefer a different solution that involved solid state clients that boot from non-volatile ram. In that case, the client is completely independent of the server. All they talk to each other is X. Yep, a great solution! Cheers from the beginning southern African summer it's getting cold up here. Shorter days and silly time changes. Cheers, Bob - -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly, Well, I do have that little box checked and it displays Subject, From, Reply to, Date and To. I just didn't look. I'm really bad at names, I may have mentioned this before. I remember Holly because I know this really nice girl named Holly that lives over hear that I meet. She was a really nice lady. That is the only way I can remember names. If I meet someone that I can't associate with someone else, I'm in bad shape. One reason I had that open is in case I get a email from someone with a .ru on the end. I was on a dating site and a lot of them tell you they live somewhere around here then tell you later that they are in Russia and need money or someone to get them here. I just checked the email line and could usually pick them out, that and the english was usually pretty bad. Yes I did meet my lady on the net. She is really nice, a lot better than I thought I would find. She is just really tiny, little under 100 lbs. She eats good though and her daughter is slender too so I guess it is genetic or something. Me, I'm dalek on the Gentoo forums, we have spoke there before I think. I live in Mississippi USA, out in the country no less. My ISP is in Columbus Mississippi, or MS. You can google Columbus MS. I wish I could visit the Netherlands and Germany to for that matter. I see them on TV but being there with a camera would be better. I'm to scared to fly so I guess that won't hapen. I was scared of flying before 9/11 though, though that didn't help. I'm learning though. Keep 'em coming. Just takes me a while. :D lets see what that looks like, -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ext3: 10% non-contiguous
Rafael Fernández López wrote: Hi, Well, I'd like to recover those holes (that 10% of the disk) and how to do it, because I've tried with e2fsck with different options and read man e2fsck with no possitive results. Thanks, Rafael Fernández López. There was a guru on the forums that explained to me that it does not mean the files are fragmented or lost. If you want, I'll try to find the thread and post a link. It made a lot of sense after I read it. Basically, you haven't lost anything so there is nothing to gain. I can't remember for sure but I think it was on the LQ forums. I think I can find it but it may take a bit of looking. It was a while ago. Later :D :D :D -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:31:33 +0100 Holly Bostick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What else could I do alongside it, other than running an emerge or something? You could switch to a non-proprietary gfx driver, and try that, though it might not work with the ATI card you have. Try emerging app-benchmarks/stress and running that. That runs everything but X. And it tunable to see what's taking resources. The other thing to try is stoppping everything, with X still running and starting up one of the rss-glx screensavers. It it runs with no issue, start a second instance or a second one, then another - as many as the system will handle until it starts showing the problem. Have top running in a term to see if you can find out what taking all the resources. Last time it happened to me, it was Xorg itself causing the issue. Bob - -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Why go through all this trouble trying to learn how to set up Mozilla mail? What's the benefit? I have been using YahooMail and GMail quite happily, where you have an easy, no-frills, light-weight interface, where you can customize exactly how you want to compose your response and arrange quotes and to what extent you want to quote someone. I think this whole thread is common sense. To me anyway. You give a short little quote to refresh people's memory of what you're replying to and give it just enough context without it getting too long and right under the quote you put your own response, so that there's a conversation-like flow. We should make an effort to keep personal stuff out of these lists. Everyone has enough problems of their own to start a drama. We just want to help each other out, further our knowledge, and contribute if we can be useful. Cheers Denis -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
Holly Bostick wrote: Hey, all, Sorry that this will not be an extremely clear question, but I really have no idea where to start, or what the problem is. Basically, my system is running fine (no overt problems), but about every 30 seconds or so, it 'pauses' to do something, and I have to wait for 5-10 seconds while it does it before I can go further. Or the display pauses, and I have to wait for the redraw , I can't tell which. The only time I have similar state with my system is when VMware (which runs at niceness -10 (!!)) writes out a suspended session file...basically a high priority process writing a massive amount of data to a relatively slow device. So a couple of things come to mind 1. Check your dmesg and /var/log/messages files and make sure your disk controller isn't going through resets. Disk controller resets will clog up the whole system, IME. 2. Similarly, run smartctl -a and check if you are getting fresh errors reported by the hard drive. 3. Try fiddling with process priorities. Memory and CPU use are not bizarre, I have a lot of processes going, but nothing weird or unexpected seems to be running if I can trust top and gnome-system-monitor. Since all the problems seem to be related to the X server, maybe it's an X problem; I'm currently using the VESA driver, as I wanted to get a clean install of the new ATI drivers when I compile Ugh, the VESA driver is horribly slow, IME. You would be much better off using the radeon driver I think. FYI, I just tried ati-drivers-8.18.8 with kernel 2.6.14, and it builds fine. I haven't tried using it yet though. You need to accept ~x86 to get 8.18.8. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Denis wrote: Why go through all this trouble trying to learn how to set up Mozilla mail? What's the benefit? I have been using YahooMail and GMail quite happily, where you have an easy, no-frills, light-weight interface, where you can customize exactly how you want to compose your response and arrange quotes and to what extent you want to quote someone. Cheers Denis For me, gmail and yahoo mail is not a good choice, and I don't really care for them either. I'm on dial-up and only have one phone line. With Mozilla mail I can connect, download my email, disconnect, reply or compose new emails when I get the time, then reconnect and send them, then get more new ones too. I don't think I can do that with Yahoo or Gmail, that I know of anyway. I do have a yahoo account that I use to make sure I'm not going to get spam. I may check it once a month, if I don't forget. Which reminds me, it's been a long time since I checked it. Now may be a good time. Probably been a couple months, may have something. :/ Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
Hi, sorry about the late reply, but I didn't see the OP Holly Bostick wrote: Sorry that this will not be an extremely clear question, but I really have no idea where to start, or what the problem is. that will just bring you in line with some of my questions :) Basically, my system is running fine (no overt problems), but about every 30 seconds or so, it 'pauses' to do something, and I have to wait for 5-10 seconds while it does it before I can go further. Or the display pauses, and I have to wait for the redraw , I can't tell which. A friend had a problem similar to this, it turned out to be acpi (or apm?) and his gnome battery applet. Every time the battery applet polled for battery level, the system froze for 1-2 seconds. So, you could try running a fail safe X session (no extras) and see if it still happens. If so, try something from the command line (no X) and see if it still happens... HTH, -- Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ext3: 10% non-contiguous
On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rafael Fernández López wrote:Hi,Well, I'd like to recover those holes (that 10% of the disk) and how todo it, because I've tried with e2fsck with different options and readman e2fsck with no possitive results. Thanks,Rafael Fernández López.There was a guru on the forums that explained to me that it does notmean the files are fragmented or lost.If you want, I'll try to find the thread and post a link.It made a lot of sense after I read it.Basically, you haven't lost anything so there is nothing to gain.I can't remember for sure but I think it was on the LQ forums.I think I can find it but it may take a bit of looking.It was a while ago. For a more sustainable situation, switch to XFS [It involved a backup/format/restore by whatever means you want] In any case, xfs has a tool called 'xfs_fsr' Which means 'file system reorganizer'. It does defragmentation, and balances some other stuff too. I run it weekly on my production servers, and nightly on mostof my workstations. js
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird pauses making me nuts
I have not read every single post in it's entierty. I have seen this lots with Firefox - especiall with flash. It tends to actually be that the system is swapping out. What filesyetem are you using? js On 10/31/05, Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, sorry about the late reply, but I didn't see the OPHolly Bostick wrote: Sorry that this will not be an extremely clear question, but I really have no idea where to start, or what the problem is. that will just bring you in line with some of my questions :) Basically, my system is running fine (no overt problems), but about every 30 seconds or so, it 'pauses' to do something, and I have to wait for 5-10 seconds while it does it before I can go further. Or the display pauses, and I have to wait for the redraw , I can't tell which.A friend had a problem similar to this, it turned out to be acpi (or apm?) and his gnome battery applet.Every time the battery appletpolled for battery level, the system froze for 1-2 seconds.So, you could try running a fail safe X session (no extras) and see ifit still happens.If so, try something from the command line (no X) and see if it still happens...HTH,--Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED]--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: iptables on gentoo
James, Why are you using IPtables directly? It's good for an exercise, but roll-your-own firewall is not really as cool as it seems. Have you looked at Shorewall [net-firewall/shorewall]. http://www.shorewall.net thanks, joshua On 10/28/05, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A. Khattri ajai at bway.net writes: /etc/init.d/firewallis the default file where where you put your rules you have written or grabbed elsewhere and modified to meet your specific needs. Not sure where this script came from - it doesn't come with iptables.You are right, as it seems a very common name used for the rules scripts.Maybe it's a ipchain vestige. I'll just ignore this... Not much to it. Make your rules and use /etc/init.d/iptables save to save 'em. When you restart iptables it will automatically load them from /var/lib/iptables/rules-save if it finds that file. OK If you need any help, post on this list.OK thanks for the clarifications...James--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] failed to load nvidia kernel module
BTW: 99% of the time, this has nothing to do with devfs, udev, or the kernel. When it says 'module failed to load' it's because the x is missing the driver file. i.e. /usr/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so /usr/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o On 10/30/05, renna bud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 27 October 2005 22:12, Qian Qiao wrote: On 10/27/05, Bob Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Qian Qiao [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:20 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] failed to load nvidia kernel module I doubt it's kernel related, I'm on a amd64 with 2.6.13-r3 here. And nvidia-kernel 6626-r4 runs fine.Seems it is: Thread from another user who experienced the problem: http://www.usenetlinux.com/archive/topic.php/t-495527.html The bug on it posted in Gentoo bugzilla: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104369 Regards, Bob Young Indeed, the comments in the bug report from b.g.o could've explained it. I had RC_DEVICE_TARBALL=yes. And from the comments, a few ways to possibly fix the problem: a) set RC_DEVICE_TARBALL=yes, then run /sbin/NVmakedevices.sh once. or b) add code if [ ! -e /dev/nvidia0 ]; then /sbin/NVmakedevices.sh fi /code to your /etc/conf.d/local.start -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. Money can't buy everything. Sometimes money can't even buy a gun...yes this was the very problem with me too. trying other versions of the driverdidn't work, but running /sbin/NVmakedevices.sh solved the problem, andhaving added if [ ! -e /dev/nvidia0 ]; then/sbin/NVmakedevices.shfito my local.start now all is working fine.--gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
