Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
On 10/09/2007, Guillermo Espertino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A little text explaining the idea would let the visitors understand better the idea. In the mockups I sent you can clearly understand the basic behaviour just looking the screenshots and the title, but there are other aspects that are important too, about the grouping of the windows in a single taskbar button, the new menu arrangement and the tool windows being dependant of the splash or the document windows. It would be nice to have that kind of clarifications too. From reading the little blurb on that site I get the idea that that sort of text should go in the image itself. It's a little awkward, but I can see there are advantages to having the entire idea encapsulated into an image. Henk Boom ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
Guillermo, It's a good idea, but I think you should add a little explaination thanks for reviewing, I will add some. and a voting system (like digg's one) to get some statistics of the degree of popular aproval of each idea (but I'm not saying that the voting should be considered for implementation, just statistics). well, first of all a voting system is another way of commenting. In a brainstorm there simply cannot be any kind of that sucks kind of commenting, it kills the flow of ideas. A series of zero star votes for an entry would be just that. Second, for me as an interaction professional, these votes are meaningless. Putting together a functioning UI for GIMP is a big architectural puzzle. It is not a matter of just putting in the popular ideas. A little text explaining the idea would let the visitors understand better the idea. yep. In the mockups I sent you can clearly understand the basic behaviour just looking the screenshots and the title, but there are other aspects that are important too, about the grouping of the windows in a single taskbar button, the new menu arrangement and the tool windows being dependant of the splash or the document windows. It would be nice to have that kind of clarifications too. like Henk said: put this in the images you send. Combine it in one graphical package. Comment your idea text balloon style, instead of writing that long essay in your email (I did not read it). The text in the blog is the voice of GIMP UI team. It would be awkward there to mix the opinion of contributors with the analysis of our team. Also I think that not allowing comments avoids the possibility to participate in an existing thread and suggest improvements. as Michael Schumacher pointed out on the irc last night, the whole text discussion thing has been tried before on openusability.org. It failed miserably, because the wrong people (non-interaction types) were discussing on the wrong level (non-interaction). I see this working in a visual way. Because of the CC-SA-BY license, anybody could take your image, modify it with their own ideas for improvement, and send it back to the brainstorm. visual dialogue. The image requirement forces contribution, instead of naysaying. But otoh, it would require someone moderating that blog, so I understand why not. you know how the commenting on GIMP topics works: 200 comments with the top-10 user requests and venting of peoples current frustrations with GIMP. --ps principal user interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
On 11/09/2007, peter sikking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see this working in a visual way. Because of the CC-SA-BY license, anybody could take your image, modify it with their own ideas for improvement, and send it back to the brainstorm. I see one problem. CC-SA-BY requires attribution, and the blog doesn't give it. Attribution would also be necessary in the modified works. Attribution makes things messy, and (IMHO) it's not that important for something like a brainstorm in any case, so perhaps a license change would be helpful? Henk Boom ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
Peter: Thank you for your reply. Now I understand what's the intention of the blog. I first thought that was a kind of community approach to the UI design, but I see that it's different. The next time I send an idea I'll try to fit better into these considerations. Comment your idea text balloon style, instead of writing that long essay in your email Ok, but... Balloons are good for a few comments but they tend to clutter the image and obstruct the legibility if they're too much. More complex ideas will require more balloons or more screenshots (and you said you want one or two). Maybe something like this would help to keep the presentation simple: - Author's briefing: Blahblahblah (with a limit of x words to avoid large essays like mine). - Expert analysis: Blahblahblah because... Anyway my next contributions will do have balloons, and for better legibility a neutral background (which I intentionally avoided because I wanted to show the solution on a real background, avoiding the idea of a single container like photoshop). And a shorter text, sure :-) (I did not read it). I'd really appreciate if you have a moment and read it. It took a couple of hours of my time trying to get a decent solution for a longstanding and polemic issue in gimp. I'd really love to know what do you think about it. Of course I don't expect I love it or it sucks, but your expert oppinion. I don't see the point of the whole blog if there are only screenshots and nothing else. If nobody but the UI team will get something out of that blog, maybe the best idea is just to receive the files via e-mail and don't publish them. People who contributes usually want to have a feedback. Regards, Gez. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
Guillermo, Comment your idea text balloon style, instead of writing that long essay in your email Ok, but... Balloons are good for a few comments but they tend to clutter the image and obstruct the legibility if they're too much. More complex ideas will require more balloons or more screenshots (and you said you want one or two). you are seeing I am encouraging everybody to keep it short (few images, a little text, pointing out what is really new), and think of it: if you feel you need more than that, maybe your mock-ups are not working on an interaction design level. Maybe something like this would help to keep the presentation simple: sorry, no text. Make your images speak. (I did not read it). I'd really appreciate if you have a moment and read it. It took a couple of hours of my time trying to get a decent solution for a longstanding and polemic issue in gimp. why did you need so much text? Good UI solutions speak for themselves. why do you need to explain me anything, when you know it will not end up in the blog? I'd really love to know what do you think about it. Of course I don't expect I love it or it sucks, but your expert oppinion. as the brainstorm moderator I have to be nice to everybody (difficult, that) and let the contributions speak for themselves. let the contributors get inspired by each other. I don't see the point of the whole blog if there are only screenshots and nothing else. If nobody but the UI team will get something out of that blog, maybe the best idea is just to receive the files via e-mail and don't publish them. in a brainstorm one idea triggers off the previous. No matter how wacky an idea is, spit it out. Because either a counter-idea of the next person will be a step in the right direction, or associating along in the wacky direction will be the breakthrough we are looking for. People who contributes usually want to have a feedback. well, this is not interaction design school. Feel good about that you are the one that kicked off the what do we do when no files are open? flow of ideas... it is good discussing this, I will have to sharpen the 'blurb' on the blog again after this mail. Tomorrow... --ps principal user interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
peter sikking wrote: it is good discussing this, I will have to sharpen the 'blurb' on the blog again after this mail. Tomorrow... Ok, I understand your points. I'll do my best to improve my next contributions in those levels. Maybe I tried to cover many fronts in a single idea and should be more specific. Thank you for your kind reply. Gez. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
Henk, those verdomde licences. On 11/09/2007, peter sikking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see this working in a visual way. Because of the CC-SA-BY license, anybody could take your image, modify it with their own ideas for improvement, and send it back to the brainstorm. I see one problem. CC-SA-BY requires attribution, and the blog doesn't give it. the contributors have to take their credit, to get attribution. I did that so I cannot mess up the anonymous part and the 'fish out the right name out of the email' part. if somebody does not take credit then (s)he fall out of the attribution chain. If the there is no contributor to attribute to then 'GIMP UI brainstorm blog' will do. Attribution would also be necessary in the modified works. yep, but a bottom edge of 1024 pixels is pretty long in 9 point type. Attribution makes things messy, and (IMHO) it's not that important for something like a brainstorm in any case, so perhaps a license change would be helpful? I think people who take credit should get attribution. Could be a reason not to contribute because the licence is too lax. I dread having to check that the whole attribution chain is in place on a new contribution... --ps principal user interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
It's a good idea, but I think you should add a little explaination and a voting system (like digg's one) to get some statistics of the degree of popular aproval of each idea (but I'm not saying that the voting should be considered for implementation, just statistics). A little text explaining the idea would let the visitors understand better the idea. In the mockups I sent you can clearly understand the basic behaviour just looking the screenshots and the title, but there are other aspects that are important too, about the grouping of the windows in a single taskbar button, the new menu arrangement and the tool windows being dependant of the splash or the document windows. It would be nice to have that kind of clarifications too. Also I think that not allowing comments avoids the possibility to participate in an existing thread and suggest improvements. But otoh, it would require someone moderating that blog, so I understand why not. Thank you for the site! Gez. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP UI brainstorm...
OK, thanks for the news - we will come be sure - I had a lot of things in preparation but ...I was not sure WHERE exactly to say my words(mock-ups) ... Sorin peter sikking wrote: GIMPsters, before my holiday (1-8-7) there was this email from Esteban, asking where he could show his ideas for GIMP. In my answer to that mail I see that I already used the words 'visual brainstorming.' During my holiday I thought about it some more, how this could work and a cheap (in labour) and easy way to implement this. And I have done so yesterday: http://gimp-brainstorm.blogspot.com/ So I want to ask you guys + gals: from just looking at that page, if the whole idea is clear to everybody. Also after discussing on the irc a bit (thanks 'ari'), I put this CC licence on it and I want to be sure it is the right thing. If all is OK, this can be than the GIMP channel where everybody can contribute their bit to the GIMP UI. --ps principal user interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
