[Gimp-user] Re: makin pattern?

2002-12-19 Thread Carol Spears
hi,
On 2002-12-19 at 0608.46 -0800, zeus typed this:
 How to make gimp pattern.
 
 is there any refference or some explanation how to make patterns, or
 someone khow ho to make it. Please i need your help..
 
 I try to make it, with renaming xcf file to .pat. But, it didn't work.
 I got error message.
 
 using gimp 1.2.3 in Linux box.
 
simply save the image as filename.pat and put it in your
~.gimp-1.2/patterns/ directory.  

carol

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: makin pattern?

2002-12-19 Thread Tom Williams
Carol Spears wrote:

 hi,
 On 2002-12-19 at 0608.46 -0800, zeus typed this:
  How to make gimp pattern.
 
  is there any refference or some explanation how to make patterns, or
  someone khow ho to make it. Please i need your help..
 
  I try to make it, with renaming xcf file to .pat. But, it didn't work.
  I got error message.
 
  using gimp 1.2.3 in Linux box.
 
 simply save the image as filename.pat and put it in your
 ~.gimp-1.2/patterns/ directory.

 carol


Thanks  I've done this as well and it refreshes the Patterns I can
choose in the toolbox but it doesn't refresh the Filter/Render/Pattern
popup-menu.  How can I refresh that menu?

Peace

Tom

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: makin pattern?

2002-12-19 Thread Carol Spears
hi again,
early am answer and i didn't read the whole question.  sorry.
On 2002-12-19 at 0820.58 -0800, Tom Williams typed this:
 Carol Spears wrote:
 
  hi,
  On 2002-12-19 at 0608.46 -0800, zeus typed this:
   How to make gimp pattern.
  
   is there any refference or some explanation how to make patterns, or
   someone khow ho to make it. Please i need your help..
  
   I try to make it, with renaming xcf file to .pat. But, it didn't work.
   I got error message.
  
   using gimp 1.2.3 in Linux box.
  
  simply save the image as filename.pat and put it in your
  ~.gimp-1.2/patterns/ directory.
 
 
 Thanks  I've done this as well and it refreshes the Patterns I can
 choose in the toolbox but it doesn't refresh the Filter/Render/Pattern
 popup-menu.  How can I refresh that menu?
 
File--Render--Patterns is a collection of filters.

File--Dialogs--Patterns is where this new pattern would be located.

carol

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[Gimp-user] Script-Fu - Batch Mode Problem

2002-12-19 Thread matt
Hello,

I am having an issue with a Script that I have written being called from the
command line.

Here is what I am trying to do.  I have written a script using Scheme that runs
great when I have Gimp loaded up (ie not from the command line).  No problems, 
does everything that I want. The real point of the script is to automate some 
image resizing from the command line.  I know that many of you out there are
going to point out that ImageMagick will do what I am looking for. I have
already gone down that path and the image quality of the scaled images is not up
to the quality that client wants.  However, I can make a better, smaller image
using Gimpnow I just need to make it completely automated.

here is the rub.

I have the script streamlined down and everything is set to be
non-interactive.   So i should just be able to pass in the variables and away we
go  My thinking is obviously flawed here as it doesn't quite work. 

here is how I am calling the script:

gimp -b '(script-fu-automated-resize 1 200 200
/export/home/matt/toprocess/Imagein.jpg
/export/home/matt/toprocess/Imageout.jpg)' '(gimp-quit 0)'

The script takes in a height, width, beginning image and output image.  I pass
it a 1 before all of that for non-interactive.  The script is designed to open
the beginning image, resize accordingly, and then save to the output image.  

I get the following response.
batch command: executed successfully.

One would think that I should be able to check my system and I should see the
end imagenopenada...nothing.  If I change the option of 1 to 0 to run in
interactive mode...I get the prompt for the default values of the script.
Height, Width, Image to processfinal image.  If I enter those in, click the
ok buttonit runs like a champ.  What am I missing?  I have the
non-interactive bit set on the file open which I assume is what is causing this
dialog to pop up.

Any ideas? tips? Pointer? References?  Anyone already have a  thumbnail script
that works in this way that can shed some light on the subject?

Matt Patterson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   



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[Gimp-user] Re: Script-Fu - Batch Mode Problem

2002-12-19 Thread Carol Spears
hi

lord knows, i don't know the answer to that directly, but it might be
here:
http://adrian.gimp.org/batch/batch.html

carol

On 2002-12-19 at 1935.36 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed this:
 Hello,
 
 I am having an issue with a Script that I have written being called from the
 command line.
 
 Here is what I am trying to do.  I have written a script using Scheme that runs
 great when I have Gimp loaded up (ie not from the command line).  No problems, 
 does everything that I want. The real point of the script is to automate some 
 image resizing from the command line.  I know that many of you out there are
 going to point out that ImageMagick will do what I am looking for. I have
 already gone down that path and the image quality of the scaled images is not up
 to the quality that client wants.  However, I can make a better, smaller image
 using Gimpnow I just need to make it completely automated.
 
 here is the rub.
 
 I have the script streamlined down and everything is set to be
 non-interactive.   So i should just be able to pass in the variables and away we
 go  My thinking is obviously flawed here as it doesn't quite work. 
 
 here is how I am calling the script:
 
 gimp -b '(script-fu-automated-resize 1 200 200
 /export/home/matt/toprocess/Imagein.jpg
 /export/home/matt/toprocess/Imageout.jpg)' '(gimp-quit 0)'
 
 The script takes in a height, width, beginning image and output image.  I pass
 it a 1 before all of that for non-interactive.  The script is designed to open
 the beginning image, resize accordingly, and then save to the output image.  
 
 I get the following response.
 batch command: executed successfully.
 
 One would think that I should be able to check my system and I should see the
 end imagenopenada...nothing.  If I change the option of 1 to 0 to run in
 interactive mode...I get the prompt for the default values of the script.
 Height, Width, Image to processfinal image.  If I enter those in, click the
 ok buttonit runs like a champ.  What am I missing?  I have the
 non-interactive bit set on the file open which I assume is what is causing this
 dialog to pop up.
 
 Any ideas? tips? Pointer? References?  Anyone already have a  thumbnail script
 that works in this way that can shed some light on the subject?
 
 Matt Patterson
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
 
 
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[Gimp-user] Re: Rapha?l's questions about web team (was FAQ)

2002-12-19 Thread Carol Spears
On 2002-12-19 at 1759.28 +0100, Rapha?l Quinet typed this:
 On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:19:28 -0800 (PST), Nathan Carl Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The gimp web team has desired that the current FAQ's be updated to reflect
  the current 1.2.x reality for some time.
 
 Sorry to rehash a topic that has already been mentioned a few days ago
 on the gimp-dev list, but what is the gimp web team and how do I get in
 touch with it?  I haven't seen the FAQ topic being discussed on the
 gimp-web list (which would be the appropriate place for this).
 
well, i want a working news and contest before i have an official team
and any sort of official announcement of the new site (which is at
http://mmmaybe.gimp.org now btw)

i need to get that eh, wiki off the front and the nifty news and contest
i have seen and operated already to be there instead.

should be soon.

wish i could show some photos of the semi truck accident that has
slowed things down some here.

contact me if you have ideas, wait for official announcements to fix
typos and things.

sorry it isn't as organized as it should be.

Rapha?l, any more questions?  sorry it is going like this.  i dunno any
other way though.  ;)

carol

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[Gimp-user] Re: New Gimp FAQ: Call for questions

2002-12-19 Thread Carol Spears
i have a question for a FAQ.

At what point is it better to use The GIMP for batch processing over
Image Magick?

i ask this question because there are some things about gimp that are
nicer than Image Magick.  I read from someone (jlbec on #gimp) that The
GIMP hands saving as png much much better than Image Magick.  so i would
like to see those sort of issues addressed in a FAQ.

carol

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Re: [Gimp-user] 2-byte TTF font brokenness - are there any options?

2002-12-19 Thread Tom . Williams

This is a GREAT question as I've run into this a LOT.  I've recently
learned how to install Windows True-Type fonts in XFree86 (4.2.1) and I'm
finding I can use the Windows fonts with gimp on Linux that I thought I had
abandoned.

An answer to the 2-byte font problem would be greatly appreciated :)

Peace

Tom



   
 
Christopher Hicks  
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: Gimp-user mailing 
list [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Sent by: cc:   
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Subject: [Gimp-user] 
2-byte TTF font brokenness - are there any
rkeley.eduoptions? 
 
   
 
   
 
12/19/02 01:56 PM  
 
   
 
   
 


   Our mission is to help our clients achieve more cost-effective
data center operations.


I'm trying to get ttf fonts to work with gimp, but it seems like most of
the fonts that my users want to use are causing the This is a 2-byte font
and may not display correctly. message to appear.  The may not display
in the message seems to consistantly translate into renders in image as a
tiny ugly font like the Windows System font.  Is there any workaround for
this?  We're using gimp 1.2.3 on RedHat 8.0.

I've searched the web for hours and submitted a bug to Red Hat (
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=80024 which includes
a detailed way to reproduce the problem.) all without coming up with
anything.  I'm not afraid of cvs, compiling, patching, converting the
fonts somehow, or whatever, but I have no idea why it's happening or where
to begin.  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

--
/chris

Programming is a Dark Art, and it will always be. The programmer is
fighting against the two most destructive forces in the universe:
entropy and human stupidity. They're not things you can always
overcome with a methodology or on a schedule.
 -Damian Conway, Perl God

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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: Script-Fu - Batch Mode Problem

2002-12-19 Thread matt
Yeah...I have read that already and have gotten a ton of great tips on how to
make things workbut I am still having the problem after all that is said and
done.  It appears that the script doesn't want to accept the parameters that I
am passing in properly.  

This has been frustrating me for several days now so I am open to any
suggestions.

Matt Patterson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:05:26 - (GMT), Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 hi
 
 lord knows, i don't know the answer to that directly, but it might be
 here:
 http://adrian.gimp.org/batch/batch.html
 
 carol
 
 On 2002-12-19 at 1935.36 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed this:
  Hello,
 
  I am having an issue with a Script that I have written being called from 
 the
  command line.
 
  Here is what I am trying to do.  I have written a script using Scheme that 
 runs
  great when I have Gimp loaded up (ie not from the command line).  No 
 problems,
  does everything that I want. The real point of the script is to automate 
 some
  image resizing from the command line.  I know that many of you out there 
 are
  going to point out that ImageMagick will do what I am looking for. I have
  already gone down that path and the image quality of the scaled images is 
 not up
  to the quality that client wants.  However, I can make a better, smaller 
 image
  using Gimpnow I just need to make it completely automated.
 
  here is the rub.
 
  I have the script streamlined down and everything is set to be
  non-interactive.   So i should just be able to pass in the variables and 
 away we
  go  My thinking is obviously flawed here as it doesn't quite work.
 
  here is how I am calling the script:
 
  gimp -b '(script-fu-automated-resize 1 200 200
  /export/home/matt/toprocess/Imagein.jpg
  /export/home/matt/toprocess/Imageout.jpg)' '(gimp-quit 0)'
 
  The script takes in a height, width, beginning image and output image.  I 
 pass
  it a 1 before all of that for non-interactive.  The script is designed to 
 open
  the beginning image, resize accordingly, and then save to the output image.
 
  I get the following response.
  batch command: executed successfully.
 
  One would think that I should be able to check my system and I should see 
 the
  end imagenopenada...nothing.  If I change the option of 1 to 0 to 
 run in
  interactive mode...I get the prompt for the default values of the script.
  Height, Width, Image to processfinal image.  If I enter those in, click 
 the
  ok buttonit runs like a champ.  What am I missing?  I have the
  non-interactive bit set on the file open which I assume is what is causing 
 this
  dialog to pop up.
 
  Any ideas? tips? Pointer? References?  Anyone already have a  thumbnail 
 script
  that works in this way that can shed some light on the subject?
 
  Matt Patterson
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Gimp-user] FAQ answers

2002-12-19 Thread John Culleton
On Thursday 19 December 2002 23:50, Michael J. Hammel wrote:
 Thus spoke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Actually, I asked this question :)
  OK here is my FAQ:
  How does one set defaults in Gimp for e.g., output formats?

 See File-Preferences.  However, the default format is XCF which is
 GIMP's built in format to save layer information.  To specify a
 different output format you either append the appropriate suffix to
 the filename (and let GIMP guess which format that means) or set the
 option menu to the format you want to use.

 Other defaults are configurable in the Preferences dialog.

 Hope that helps a little.
The preferences I referred to are for PS output and include such
items as:
Encapsulated Postscript (my preference)
Zero horizontal and vertical offset (my preference)
Inches instead of pixels for dimensions (my preference)
The Preferences dialog doesn't cover these details.

I don't mind specifying PS output. It's these other details that have
to be reset in the same way on every run. 



-- 

John Culleton
Able Indexers and Typesetters 
Rowse Reviews
Culleton Editorial Services
http://wexfordpress.com




Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service!
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Re: [Gimp-user] FAQ answers

2002-12-19 Thread Akkana
Tom Williams wrote:
 *)  How does the Xtns/Script-Fu menu differ from the Script-Fu pop-up
 menu?

(Answering the questions Michael didn't)
The scripts and plugins in Xtns create a new image -- they're not
tied to any existing image.  The ones in the Image popup menu do things
on the current image.

 *)  What books on the gimp are recommended?  Beginner and intermediate
 level books would be great.

I learned a lot from Grokking the Gimp -- preview it at gimp-savvy.com.

Stephen J. Baker wrote:
   Q: I'm trying to paint and nothing is happening - what did I
  do wrong?

That gets my vote for the #1 question on the FAQ!  It was definitely what
kept me in xv or paintshop pro instead of gimp when I was getting started.

   A: Eeek! There are about 1e6 things that could be:
* You are painting outside of the selection. 

And you may not realize this because the marching ants may not be
shown for some reason.

* You've picked some kind of 'do nothing' paint.
* Your paint colour is the same as the background.
* You are painting to a layer that's hidden.  
* You are painting to a layer that's rendered at
  100% transparency.
* Try hitting 'Layers/Anchor'.
* Try hitting 'Layers/Layer-to-Image-Size'.

The two causes I hit most often:
 * You are painting outside of the layer (because you have
   the wrong layer selected)
 * You are painting to a layer that somehow got preserve
   transparency set (which leads to a new FAQ: Why does that
   bit sometimes get set without my setting it?)

...and lots of others...   

I used to hit this problem even back before I knew about layers, when
nothing was selected, and I still don't know what was causing it ...

* Look - just save the image, restart GIMP and
  load it back in again - I'm too busy to figure
  it out.

Ouch.  (That doesn't necessarily solve it, though, since when you reload
you may still end up on the wrong layer or whatever.)

...Akkana
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Re: [Gimp-user] Colord emboss

2002-12-19 Thread Garry R. Osgood
Hogeweg, Erwin (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:

 Hi,

 I want to create an image as if a text were 'embossed' in a colored sheet of paper...

snipped

Short answer: Bump Map (Filters-Map-Bump Map)
Long Answer:

1. New image.
2. Add two layers
   a. Layer Paper Midtone gray (#88) or unsaturated color tint
  (say #88 for an unsaturated yellow)
   b. Layer Text Black on white
3. Blur Text layer slightly (approximately 5 pixels, starting value)
4. Make Paper Active layer
5. Filters-Map-Bump Map...
6. In dialog, Select Text layer for Bump Map: Parameter setting.
7. Use scroll bars to pan around Paper layer preview, until you locate text image
8. Experiment with other parameters
9. Hit OK when you've got it.

Have fun. And remember, there's always more than one way to do it.

Garry


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Re: [Gimp-user] FAQ answers

2002-12-19 Thread Michael J. Hammel
Thus spoke John Culleton
 The preferences I referred to are for PS output and include such
 items as:
 Encapsulated Postscript (my preference)
 Zero horizontal and vertical offset (my preference)
 Inches instead of pixels for dimensions (my preference)
 The Preferences dialog doesn't cover these details.
 
 I don't mind specifying PS output. It's these other details that have
 to be reset in the same way on every run. 

Hmmm.  I guess there may be a bug (or feature, depending on your point of
view) where file plug-ins don't maintain their last setting in the gimprc
file.  Also, the file-format specific file plug-ins are the place where 
preferences of this nature must be set.  It's a trade off for how versatile
plug-ins can be (supporting another format means dropping in another
plug-in instead of recompiling all of GIMP).  What probably needs to be
addressed is how well (or even if) file plug-ins (which are kind of special
plug-ins from a developers perspective) save their last set configurations.

I haven't checked if there is a bug written against this issue.  It is
probably worth while to write such a bug report if there isn't one yet
since it's a reasonable request and a useful feature for future releases.

Of course, this feature may already exist for the PS file plug-in but its
just not being used correctly.  I haven't verified that possibility yet (I
don't use the PS output format much).
-- 
Michael J. Hammel   |  Outside of the killings, Washington has one of 
The Graphics Muse   |  the lowest crime rates in the country.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |   Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, D.C.
http://www.graphics-muse.com 
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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: New Gimp FAQ: Call for questions

2002-12-19 Thread pcg
On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 03:28:17PM -0500, Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 At what point is it better to use The GIMP for batch processing over
 Image Magick?

For one, whenever you want to interactively adjust sth.  ImageMagick is a
blind flight, with gimp you can more easily change parameters, retry etc..

Also, Gimp might have that effect of the day you really need. In this
case ImageMagick simply isn't an option. And the Gimp has _lots_ of
effects ;) The same is true for any script or function that is available
for the gimp but not ImageMagick.

Last not least, ImageMagick can be a memory hog and almost always is
extremely slow in everything. Gimp can be a lot faster, and when you have
to process 20,000+ images that might save a lot of hours.

 nicer than Image Magick.  I read from someone (jlbec on #gimp) that The
 GIMP hands saving as png much much better than Image Magick.  so i would

Well, we'd like to know in what respect ;)

-- 
  -==- |
  ==-- _   |
  ---==---(_)__  __   __   Marc Lehmann  +--
  --==---/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ /   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |e|
  -=/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\   XX11-RIPE --+
The choice of a GNU generation   |
 |
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Re: [Gimp-user] Re: New Gimp FAQ: Call for questions

2002-12-19 Thread Thomas Lund
GET ME OFF THIS LIST!

And no, the unsubscribe-mail don't work. Tried it many times.


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann )
To: GIMP Users [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Re: New Gimp FAQ: Call for questions


 On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 03:28:17PM -0500, Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  At what point is it better to use The GIMP for batch processing over
  Image Magick?

 For one, whenever you want to interactively adjust sth.  ImageMagick is a
 blind flight, with gimp you can more easily change parameters, retry etc..

 Also, Gimp might have that effect of the day you really need. In this
 case ImageMagick simply isn't an option. And the Gimp has _lots_ of
 effects ;) The same is true for any script or function that is available
 for the gimp but not ImageMagick.

 Last not least, ImageMagick can be a memory hog and almost always is
 extremely slow in everything. Gimp can be a lot faster, and when you have
 to process 20,000+ images that might save a lot of hours.

  nicer than Image Magick.  I read from someone (jlbec on #gimp) that The
  GIMP hands saving as png much much better than Image Magick.  so i would

 Well, we'd like to know in what respect ;)

 --
   -==- |
   ==-- _   |
   ---==---(_)__  __   __   Marc Lehmann  +--
   --==---/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ /   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |e|
   -=/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\   XX11-RIPE --+
 The choice of a GNU generation   |
  |
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[Gimp-user] FAQ answers

2002-12-19 Thread Michael J. Hammel
Thus spoke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Hi!  Here are some questions I have:
 
 *)  Where can I find good gimp tutorials?

Good is relative, but here are some pointers to get you started.
http://www.graphics-muse.com/cgi/gmcat.pl?id=11

 *)  How close in functionality to PhotoShop is the gimp?

You can do in GIMP most of what you can do in Photoshop.  There are some
caveats:
Photoshop handles 16 bit color, Pantone and CMYK conversions - GIMP does not.
Photoshop has a way to record your actions - GIMP only allows you to
redo the last action (so far).

GIMP has features Photoshop does not:
Scripting
Networked access
Batch mode

The trick is to expect your techniques to be similar between the two
applications, but not identical.

 *)  What versions of PhotoShop .PSD files are supported by the PhotoShop
 plug-in?

Unknown.  I guess I could read the code and find out, but I'm too lazy
right now.  It's the holidays.  :-)

 *)  How can I change the foreground color of some text to a pattern?

The easiest way to do this is to start with text on it's own transparent
layer.  If you do so, then you can simply select Alpha to Selection in
the Layers menu and do a Bucket Fill using a pattern instead of a color.
If you don't have your text on a layer by itself like this, then you need
to make a selection of the text.  Selection techniques are many, and are
likely to be one of your most valued skills as you get more involved in
your artwork.

 *)  What are layer masks and how do they work?

They are cardboard cutouts that determine which part of the layer will
actually be used.  In the layer mask white areas designate areas of the
layer that are visible (and/or combined with other layers) and black areas
are masked out.  To create a mask, just start painting in the layer mask
with either black or white.  Note that gray areas (places where pixels
are mixed between black and white) in the mask make the corresponding
pixels in the layer partially visible (aka partially transparent).

 *)  How does the Xtns/Script-Fu menu differ from the Script-Fu pop-up
 menu?

Huh?  I'm not sure what the Script-Fu pop up menu is.

 *)  Is it possible to align text along a curve in an image?  If so, how is
 it done?

It's done with a filter currently.  See Xtns-ScriptFu-Logos-Text Circle
This only works around a single arc, so it's not what you might expect, but
it's a start.

 *)  How can I find out the step-by-step process to make the logo effects in
 the Xtns/Script-Fu/Logos menu?  I can see the resultant layer data, but
 have NO idea of how to do that myself.

Read the code.  Really, that's how pretty much everyone else learned.
ScriptFu code is regular text that you can read.  But it's a programming
language.

If you want to know how the techniques were discovered by the ScriptFU
programmers, well, that's probably just experience.  Lots of time fiddling
with existing scripts or techniques to invent new ones.

 *)  What does feathering mean?

It means making the edges of a selection soft.  In brief, it allows pixels
within the feathered region to go from fully selected to not selected.  If
you feather a distance of 10 pixels for a circular selection then 5 pixels
toward the inside of the selection will be fully selected and, as you move
outward, the pixels are considered less selected.  Being less selected is
essentially like be more transparent.

What this means in practice is that if you fill the selection (or cut it
out) you get soft edges.  In a fill of a feathered selection, the color
flows from the selected color towards the existing colors in the layer.

 *)  What books on the gimp are recommended?  Beginner and intermediate
 level books would be great.

Can't answer that.  I have two published, so I'm a bit biased (though I
think you can only actually get one of them these days).  Carol's new web
site has some listed (and the site design is rather nice - hope to see it
go live soon!) - mmmaybe.gimp.org I think is the URL.

 *)  Where can I find online resources/tutorials on creating animations with
 gimp?

I think that link I gave earlier has some animation tutorial links on it.  There
aren't many tutorials on this subject yet.  


Thus spoke Nathan Carl Summers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 OK here is my FAQ:
 How does one set defaults in Gimp for e.g., output formats?

See File-Preferences.  However, the default format is XCF which is GIMP's
built in format to save layer information.  To specify a different output
format you either append the appropriate suffix to the filename (and let
GIMP guess which format that means) or set the option menu to the format
you want to use.

Other defaults are configurable in the Preferences dialog.

Hope that helps a little.
-- 
Michael J. Hammel   |
The Graphics Muse   |  Women should put pictures of missing husbands 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  on beer cans.
http://www.graphics-muse.com 
___