RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
For balance? Mainly I don't want a post reveler getting dizzy and hurling more colour onto it. :P And thinking of multi- colours, this reminded me of someone I know who made a man's Landsknecht in various Hawaiian print fabric. Bright colors too. De -Original Message- um, why stop at 4? (more evil grin) you can only see 1/4 of per person, yes? :-D Jerusha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
I am going for the very pleated version like the statues. The silk holds pleats very wel. I will make it wet and pleat the fabric than let it dry. http://www.bluffton.edu/%7Esullivanm/chartreswest/jambs.html _http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/z/zurbaran/2/casilda.html_ (http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/z/zurbaran/2/casilda.html) _http://cartelen.louvre.fr/cartelen/visite?srv=car_not_frameidNotice=603_ (http://cartelen.louvre.fr/cartelen/visite?srv=car_not_frameidNotice=603) These are very inspiring! If I make a green cloak green and make some green embroidery on the yellow belt and put small yellow embroidered bands along the neckline and sleeves... It is for a event caled Knights and Lady's. The story is that the knights just came bak from their crusade and I am showing my new dress my husband brought back for me :-) . otsisto wrote: I had notice that it was a bit light for a bliaut. Were you planning on making the mini pleated type garment with this? If you were going to use it for a regular bliaut and have the lining add the weight, you need to consider the color of the lining when choosing embroidery/trim accents because the color will change. Now for making you look younger, I'm sure that if this fabric does that and you are not happy, there are several women here who would gladly take it of your hands. It would be no problem.:) Shades of green are good as accent. Golds, some blue shades, pinks, silver and gray. You may want to consider two colors for accent but don't have too. Wish I could be as enthusiastic about dyeing like you but I think my enthusiasm went towards embroidery and beading. :) De -Original- Hi, Thanks for the response! I feel a lot happyer now :-) . It also looks better now in daylight. The only problem I have with it is that this colour probably will make me look even jonger than most people alredy think I am... :-\ And I have to look what colour belt and embroidery wil look better on the gown than yellow. I think green would look well. More reasons to dye more fabrik :-) . It is so much fun. Meekrap is indeed madder We used alun as a mordand And dyed it in a copper pan. 20% alun and afther a while I added 200% madder. and then cleaned with water with a little ammonia. I hope it won't ruin the silk. But it looks ok now. It is very thin silk don't know what it is called. Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
-Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
At 09:14 20/02/2006, you wrote: -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. You are right that Bjarne didn't specify British - that was me, trying to make sure that I only spoke of that which I knew. I also said that it was 19th century and on, while Bjarne asked about 18th century. I don't know about that, or about American etiquette, and was too lazy to quote from my 19c. etiquette books. I should have said ladies did not take their gloves off when introduced to someone. (Actually of course when someone was introduced to them in many situations! Oh, how complicated!) I found the site fascinating but slightly different to what I know, hence my comment about things being different. Suzi Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: Fancy Dress Described
At 09:50 20/02/2006, you wrote: Yes, the Debenhams chain took over the local privately owned department store in many English towns. I thought it sounded surprising that the main London store should have closed. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19/02/2006 13:19 It was Dickins and Jones on Regent Street that closed recently, not Debenhams - Debenhams is alive and well and has branches all over the country (Debenhams.com), but is far removed from an old-fashioned department store these days. Yes, I had a blonde moment and got my department stores mixed up. Sorry! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Amadeus
Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13/02/2006 04:15 wrote: Actually, d'Artagnan was a real person, and was a member, eventually captain, of the King's Musketeers. However, the historical Charles de Batz-Castlemore d'Artagnan was born somewhere around 1625 and so most of his exploits were during the reign of Louis XIV, not Louis XIII. There was a recent article in History today putting forward a theory that the Man in the Iron Mask (who also really existed) was in fact d'Artagnan. Gail wrote: The story of Amadeus has very little to do with the real Mozart. He did not live in terror of his father, he was very fond of him. And of course Salieri didn't kill him. And, although he enjoyed schoolboy puns and lavatorial humour in some of his letters (as did his mother), he can't possibly have been like that all the time. I had to stop a colleague of mine from classifying a video of Amadeus with biographies of Mozart, under the impression that it was an accurate portrayal. __ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Bag
Or even the 19th C? The overall scrolling of the fleur de lis design with the addition of some beading would place this for me, in the 1870s/80s. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery Bag At 01:03 PM 2/19/2006, you wrote: Kathy Page wrote: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/M91_165.jpg I've looked at dozens of bags in the past two weeks but can't recall that one, sorry. It does look more 17th century (mid-late?) to me than 16th, though. It's metal embroidery, it's symmetrical, there's that stylized scrollwork and leaves... I'm in the process of trying to make one myself. Dawn Could it be 19th century? Part of the Renaissance/medieval revival fashion? Those really heavy tassels look overdone for the 16th-17th century to me. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
One of my more droll findings in etiquitte books (American, late 19th C) is a note that ladies never take off their gloves even at a dinnertable...unless the hostess does!! For the nouveu upper middle class, this advice would speak woe to the idea that one might well ruin many pairs of long white kid gloves attending affairs of someone who really was Not In the Know. Kathleen - Original wwqMessage - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:14 AM Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
At 14:26 20/02/2006, you wrote: One of my more droll findings in etiquitte books (American, late 19th C) is a note that ladies never take off their gloves even at a dinnertable...unless the hostess does!! For the nouveu upper middle class, this advice would speak woe to the idea that one might well ruin many pairs of long white kid gloves attending affairs of someone who really was Not In the Know. Ah, but if you had gloves which buttoned at the wrist, you could undo the buttons, and tuck the hand part into the rest of the glove. Thus, while technically not removing your gloves, you actually didn't get them in the soup - or whatever. Suzi -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Anne of cleves and seeing things in context Re: FlemishRE: tippets ...
Thanks for the info on Anne of Cleves portrait by Holbein. Tudor costume is my big area of interest and Anne of Cleves(by reason of her short tenure as queen consort)has gotten short shift by historians. Historians have interpreted Henry's reaction to Anne has been interpreted from everything from literal dislike to what he had been informed about Anne to second thoughts about the Cleavian alliance. He has been criticized about being very picky about his wives, having personal contact and knowledge with five of the six well before marriage, which was certainly rare with European monarchs. However his grandfather, Edward IV, certainly married for love/physical attraction, and his father, Henry VII, had the luck that Elizabeth of York fit the mold of physical attractiveness in a queen, even though he had promised to marry her, sight unseen. So there was an recent English tradition of kings marrying for love as opposed to the more usual dynastic/foreign relations reasons. And poor Henry was hit with the royal reality of Anne being the antithesis of his mother and grandmother; his grandmother had raised him and a woman with little formal education, a large physical presence, and no points in common interests with Henry, was unlikely to be attractive to him in any case. Cindy Abel ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: thoughts about civil war and colonial
Civil war Lu Ann Thanks for that anectdotal ... I hope I qualified it enough, because IT was something I'd Heard. Knowing the various southern state's possessive nature (even now) It made anthropoligial and sociological sense to me. Knowing the south's nature to treasure relics that makes sense too , ...but these were uniforms that were never used, and did not attain that true treasure of the lost cause status. Colonial There was someting about that dress that said Altered? to me too. Soomething about the waist not being 18th cent. not being abel see it for real, and not having examined too much real stuff in person, only pictures I dismissed these thoughts as it being on a dressform that was more 20th century Mia in CHarlotte - Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For balance? Mainly I don't want a post reveler getting dizzy and hurling more colour onto it. :P snicker. probably a good thought. And thinking of multi- colours, this reminded me of someone I know who made a man's Landsknecht in various Hawaiian print fabric. Bright colors too. Sounds like something Lord Joel woulh have done . Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Kelly/Estellas projekt
Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. I chose Janet Arnold's method of making the wheel because it uses the least amount of fabric. This has been a pet project of mine for some time. I believe that if you had to weave the fabric yourself, then you wouldn't waste any of it. So a lot of my theories are based around trying to come up with a cutting method that has little watse fabric. I like how Ninya uses the short bones down the centrefront edges though, and will try that out as mine are collapsing at the moment. I also need to make yet another bum roll, mine *still* isn't large enough! If I can talk my spousal unit into some web work this evening, there will be more photos up soon. I know how to make web pages, but this is his thing, so I have to wait for him ;-) Kelly/estela - Original Message - From: WickedFrau [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kelly/Estellas projekt Yeah! I am so glad to see someone else doing these types of gowns. In doing A Suitable Gown for Her Majesty *http://tinyurl.com/87qbb * we also chose to put the corset front under the farthingale. Now the front of this farthingale is flat. In my research I found some wheels depicted as being rather sharply tillted to the back but more often they were not, which made me wonder if it wasn't the artists way of trying to show what was going on behind in portraiture. Many of the effigies with smaller wheels are pretty flat, which gives a prettty good 3D idea of what they looked like. Ninya Mikhalia on the other hand looks like she places most of her's on the outside. http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/wheelfarthingales.html I didn't care much for Hunisett's wheel construction. I made several up, but chose to go with Ninya's way of doing them. Unfortunaely when doing a flat front the tension isn't great enough to keep the fabric nice and taut, so I chose to cover the cotuil with a little batting and the silk. I look forward to seeing more of your work! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: OT: Urinetown (was 1930's factory wear)
One of the local theater groups in Santa Rosa, CA, is also doing Urinetown. Is this yet another production, or is this being costumed by one of you? If the latter, it gives me even greater incentive to go. :-) ~mary (Sorry for the late reply, I got behind on this list and I'm still trying to catch up) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:00:20 -0400 From: Kelly Grant Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1930's factory wear/Urinetown What is this...the year for depression era Urinetown???We're doing the same sho for the final one of the season...we'll get the scetches next week! Kelly From: Cabbage Rose Costumes Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1930's factory wear Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:09:30 -0800 Can anyone on the list point me to a source for period uniforms for the depression era? Or perhaps even abroad in the 1930s. I am doing a production of Urinetown, and we are going for a thirties depression era feel, although the show is not actually set in any time period. (It's actually the future, I believe). I did a few cursory net searches without much luck, but thought perhaps someone already had some sourcing and could save me some time for my inspiration. As always, thanks in advance. angela + Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design «:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:».«:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:» Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick wicked. ~ Jane Austen Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before. ~ Steven Wright ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] DATE FOR Pirates o' de Carib
hello, Does anyone know what time the Pirates of the Caribbean was supposedly set in? It's not my period. My kids want costumes to wear to the premier this summer of Pirates part deaux. Thanks! Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
Hi De, No it was fine that you sended the URL. I read all of it, finds it interresting reading. This is important to learn all those rules and unwritten manners, i was glad you sended it, Thanks Bjarne - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:14 AM Subject: RE: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners -Original Message- This may be etiquette in the U.S. but it is not in court circles in Britain. Manners may well differ in different countries. My comment was an answer to Bjarne according to British habits. Under normal circumstances, most ladies would be wearing gloves, so the actual kiss on the skin of the hand would not happen anyway. Gloves were not taken off when one was introduced to someone. Suzi __ As I said Perhaps and some Please note from the site: Period books of (American) etiquette state that not removing one's gloves by the gentleman is perfectly proper. If your character is European, however, the gentleman would remove the glove from the hand that takes the lady's. This is more 1800s etiquette and from what little I understand of the period, much of both US coasts were fascinated by European etiquette during the 1800s and tried to emulate it. Perhaps I misread Bjarne's email as I do not remember seeing Britain specified. I apologies for the bandwidth in posting the url. I will definitely make sure that I do not make that mistake again. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Bag
Ah, but what I find interesting about this piece besides the outer design is the placement of the tassels...and their possible function. I may be off the wall, but because of the slowness of total vision as the picture came up on my screen, I viewed the tassels attachment as a possibly second set of drawer strings, which would make the pouching double (ie. two compartments). Hmmm Kathleen - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery Bag Kathy Page wrote: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/M91_165.jpg I've looked at dozens of bags in the past two weeks but can't recall that one, sorry. It does look more 17th century (mid-late?) to me than 16th, though. It's metal embroidery, it's symmetrical, there's that stylized scrollwork and leaves... I'm in the process of trying to make one myself. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza
I believe all of the above fabrics can be made from silk but does anyone know when the earliest examples of them stem from? Are they 12th or 20th century inventions. Just curious to know. -- Caroline We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. G B Shaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
It might be useful to Bjarne to know that in 1775 in England, at least, hand-kissing was not necessarily literal. Witness this dialogue from Richard Brinsley Sheridan's The Rivals. Bob Acres, a country squire eager to appear sophisticated during a visit to Bath, is meeting with his acquaintance Sir Lucius O'Trigger, a landed Irish gentleman of old-fashioned manners: Enter Sir Lucius. SIR LUCIUS: Mr. Acres, I am delighted to embrace you. ACRES: My dear Sir Lucius, I kiss your hands. It is probable that no embracing or hand-kissing actually takes place, but that these are merely verbal expressions of good-will. (Indeed, the moment on stage is much more delicious if the two gentlemen making these statements are standing half a room apart!) So between a gentleman and a lady in 1775 I would imagine (on this theatrical basis) that hand-kissing would be essentially a courtly gesture rather than necessarily a lip-to-flesh experience, and bowing low over the lady's hand would do. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] modes and manners
Hello All, I was hesitating to answer this question, as I have no documentation to prove the point. What I can say is that I do work in the !8th Century, and at work I was taught the prop[er procedure is to kiss the air, or blow across the hand, not to make any actual contact. I suspect the kissing ones own hand is simply another version of the same concept. R Carnegie - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 3:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] modes and manners At 21:35 18/02/2006, you wrote: Hi, Anybody know of the etiquette for 18th century. When a man is presented to a lady, and he kisses her hand, does he then actually kis the hand, or does he just pretend that he is kissing the hand? I have done both, but not sure wich is correct. Bjarne When I worked on a drama/documentary on Victoria and Albert, we had one of the Queen's equerries on set, giving advice on various protocol issues. He showed me that when a man kisses a lady's hand, he does not kiss the hand, but his own thumb! If you get the angle right this is very simple and looks as though you are kissing the hand. I don't know if this was 18th century practice, but was obviously 19th century and up to modern times. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Caroline wrote: I believe all of the above fabrics can be made from silk but does anyone know when the earliest examples of them stem from? Are they 12th or 20th century inventions. Just curious to know. I'd like to know, too, whether anyone doing historic costume would have a use for silk chiffon or organza in various colors ... they're going for a song at the fabric store where I work, which is in its last week of business before moving. If they're useful, I'll pick them up for resale. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza
The reason I ask is that I have been looking at the ladies on the Luttrell Psalter and it is clear both mother and daughter on the knight on horseback page are wearing both wimples and veils. The fabric drawn is a transparent white and the only thing I can think it is chiffon or tulle. There are some very fine silk fabrics in the Textiles and Clothing (London finds) but I was hoping for some historical perspective. http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/ttp/ttpbooks.html On 20/02/06, Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Caroline wrote: I believe all of the above fabrics can be made from silk but does anyone know when the earliest examples of them stem from? Are they 12th or 20th century inventions. Just curious to know. I'd like to know, too, whether anyone doing historic costume would have a use for silk chiffon or organza in various colors ... they're going for a song at the fabric store where I work, which is in its last week of business before moving. If they're useful, I'll pick them up for resale. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Caroline We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. G B Shaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
My daughter has chosen the portrait of young Princess Elizabeth for her costume. It is the pink one, Flemish School 1546-1547. Can anyone tell me what colors the sleeves and the front panel are? They seem very pink to me. http://www.sapphireandsage.com/necklaces.html I can't tell if it has a round or pointed bodices. What do you call these kind of sleeves. Any suggestions of how to make of pattern for the sleeves? I found several sites that had sleeve variations but none like these. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: DATE FOR pirates o' de Carib
I believe the verdict has been that although many of the characters are well-dressed for their time period, each character seems to have a different time period, ranging from the 1680s through the 1750s or thereabouts. And the pirate characters have a mix of lovely authentic garments mixed with completely fantasy ones in the same outfits. Here are a couple of good sites about the costumes: http://www.kipar.org/piratical-resources/potc-costumes.html http://www.costumersguide.com/cr_potc.shtml http://www.outnow.ch/Media/Img/2003/PiratesOfTheCaribbean/ And don't forget www.gentlemenoffortune.com for some real research into what pirates would have worn. Tea Rose P.S. My friends and I are going to be pirates for Costume Con. If you'd like a list of resources and vendors we're using for our costumes, let me know off-list. From: Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] DATE FOR Pirates o' de Carib Does anyone know what time the Pirates of the Caribbean was supposedly set in? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Anne of cleves and seeing things in context Re:FlemishRE: tippets ...
It was said that Henry VIII had problems with Anne's Germanic body shape and was heard to once comment that her form was that of a whore. It seems he preferred the small breasted, virginal looking body with his women. This was from a BBC program on Henry. De -Original Message- Thanks for the info on Anne of Cleves portrait by Holbein. Tudor costume is my big area of interest and Anne of Cleves(by reason of her short tenure as queen consort)has gotten short shift by historians. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] DATE FOR Pirates o' de Carib
About mid 1700s though it looks like it could be getting into the late 1700s. Some patterns. Standard halloween http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B3236=xTI=10 013page=8 B3236 A bit cheeze but you can alter it. http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B6295=xTI=10 013page=9 http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4163.htm?tab=costumespage=4 Men and boys http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4626.htm?tab=costumespage=3 If a bit more serious http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat62.html http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat60.html http://www.longago.com/colonialmen.html Didn't see girl size but http://www.longago.com/colonialwomen.html Children http://www.longago.com/colonialchildren.html De -Original Message- hello, Does anyone know what time the Pirates of the Caribbean was supposedly set in? It's not my period. My kids want costumes to wear to the premier this summer of Pirates part deaux. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
Thank you for the description. I still wonder how the sleeves are attached. There is no strap showing. Is the pearl necklace in her bodice or is it attached to the edges of a very translarent partlet? One description said the beading trim was attached to the under layer. What under layer? Was it attached to a chemise or smock? I don't see any of it except for the poofs of white. I found a pdf of the costume by Nina . It has a white chemise with blackwork on it as suggested undergarments. Is this right? I don't know. Since she does so much research and garb work, I assume she knows what she is talking about in this portrait. Is she wearing earrings or is the trim on her hood? I found the perfect cloth that is the same color and pattern in the portrait. That was a big start on the costume. I don't know if i can find gfabric for the front and undersleeves. I guess I could embroider it myself. I'd rather not have to do that much work by hand. - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth My daughter has chosen the portrait of young Princess Elizabeth for her costume. It is the pink one, Flemish School 1546-1547. Can anyone tell me what colors the sleeves and the front panel are? They seem very pink to me. http://www.sapphireandsage.com/necklaces.html I saw this painting in the National Portrait Gallery London several years ago and the main dress is reddish orange and the forepart and lower sleeves are gold velvet cutwork. I can't tell if it has a round or pointed bodices. The bodice is pointed and the skirt is attached. The skirt is flat in front and has cartridge or knife pleats starting at the sides. It would have a full back skirt and probably a train. What do you call these kind of sleeves. Any suggestions of how to make of pattern for the sleeves? I don't think the sleeves have a particular name other than maybe tudor sleeves. The over sleeve (reddish orange) is a very large bell shape which was probably a revival of the medieval bell sleeves. They are then folded back and pinned on the upper arm. The lower sleeves (gold cutwork) are debated as to how they are made. My research found that they are a separate sleeve accent that probably ties to a ribbon on the inside of the bell sleeve. It can be a round-ish stuffed ball or a finished fancy fabric that folds over the arm and ties on the bottom. There is a different tudor portait that shows that there is a corner showing near the elbow. So it would seem that the sleeves do not extend all the way to the top of the arm. I can send you a picture of my lower sleeves and whole tudor outfit if you want to e-mail me privately. Hope that helps! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anne of cleves and seeing things in contextRe:FlemishRE: tippets ...
- Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] It was said that Henry VIII had problems with Anne's Germanic body shape and was heard to once comment that her form was that of a whore. It seems he preferred the small breasted, virginal looking body with his women. This was from a BBC program on Henry. De Interesting--I've always heard from Them that it was sort of the other way around; H8 got the impression of a nicely rounded woman from Holbein's painting, then found himself with a thin, non-curvy woman... at which point he supposedly got mad at Holbein and fired him. Has anyone else heard this version? The other version does make sense, based on the portraits of his other wives (except CofA). -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Mystery Bag
My impression was mid to late 1500s. Though the tassels are something that I would have seen on some Germanic pouches. http://www.ledermuseum.de/vollbild/seiten/42_e.htm De -Original Message- Or even the 19th C? The overall scrolling of the fleur de lis design with the addition of some beading would place this for me, in the 1870s/80s. Kathleen Kathy Page wrote: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/M91_165.jpg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Silk chiffon and organza
Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:03:45 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Caroline wrote: I believe all of the above fabrics can be made from silk but does anyone know when the earliest examples of them stem from? Are they 12th or 20th century inventions. Just curious to know. I'd like to know, too, whether anyone doing historic costume would have a use for silk chiffon or organza in various colors ... they're going for a song at the fabric store where I work, which is in its last week of business before moving. If they're useful, I'll pick them up for resale. --Robin I can always use natural or white organza for linings, or dye it for some other purpose! I could probably use chiffon, too. I bet others feel the same way, especially those who don't only do period costuming, or aren't extremely anal about authenticity. Kate ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
At 23:40 20/02/2006, you wrote: Thank you for the description. I still wonder how the sleeves are attached. There is no strap showing. Is the pearl necklace in her bodice or is it attached to the edges of a very translarent partlet? One description said the beading trim was attached to the under layer. What under layer? Was it attached to a chemise or smock? I don't see any of it except for the poofs of white. I found a pdf of the costume by Nina . It has a white chemise with blackwork on it as suggested undergarments. Is this right? I don't know. Since she does so much research and garb work, I assume she knows what she is talking about in this portrait. Is she wearing earrings or is the trim on her hood? I found the perfect cloth that is the same color and pattern in the portrait. That was a big start on the costume. I don't know if i can find gfabric for the front and undersleeves. I guess I could embroider it myself. I'd rather not have to do that much work by hand. - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth My daughter has chosen the portrait of young Princess Elizabeth for her costume. It is the pink one, Flemish School 1546-1547. Can anyone tell me what colors the sleeves and the front panel are? They seem very pink to me. http://www.sapphireandsage.com/necklaces.html I saw this painting in the National Portrait Gallery London several years ago and the main dress is reddish orange and the forepart and lower sleeves are gold velvet cutwork. I can't tell if it has a round or pointed bodices. The bodice is pointed and the skirt is attached. The skirt is flat in front and has cartridge or knife pleats starting at the sides. It would have a full back skirt and probably a train. What do you call these kind of sleeves. Any suggestions of how to make of pattern for the sleeves? I don't think the sleeves have a particular name other than maybe tudor sleeves. The over sleeve (reddish orange) is a very large bell shape which was probably a revival of the medieval bell sleeves. They are then folded back and pinned on the upper arm. The lower sleeves (gold cutwork) are debated as to how they are made. My research found that they are a separate sleeve accent that probably ties to a ribbon on the inside of the bell sleeve. It can be a round-ish stuffed ball or a finished fancy fabric that folds over the arm and ties on the bottom. There is a different tudor portait that shows that there is a corner showing near the elbow. So it would seem that the sleeves do not extend all the way to the top of the arm. I can send you a picture of my lower sleeves and whole tudor outfit if you want to e-mail me privately. Hope that helps! The cutwork is actually described by Janet Arnold as cloth of gold and you can see the tiny purles close up, like little springs. You will find patterns for sleeves like this in Hunnisett, Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800. I believe Ninya Mikhaila may have sleeves like this too, but her book has not yet been published as far as I know.The Hunnisett sleeves do work - I've used the pattern several times, and she gives several variations. You can see a version of the sleeves here http://www.suziclarke.co.uk/viewimage.php?image=/henry-Vlll-and-anne-boleyn.jpg These are pinned very high on the arm as the young lady was using a bow on the day the photo was taken. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Kelly/Estellas projekt
kelly grant wrote: I like how Ninya uses the short bones down the centrefront edges though, and will try that out as mine are collapsing at the moment. I also need to make yet another bum roll, mine *still* isn't large enough! Something we discovered in the process of making the bumroll is that you can forsake a very large one (if you read my notes you will see it isn't really necessary) provided you stuff it very hard and make use of the bumpad underneath it. I stuff mine the way I stuff cloth sculptured dolls. Very firm-I see many bumrolls that are really squishyjust doesn't work as well. If I can talk my spousal unit into some web work this evening, there will be more photos up soon. I know how to make web pages, but this is his thing, so I have to wait for him ;-) Looking forward to it!. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners
Thanks for all your responses to my questions. It has ben interresting reading for me. I am preparing myself in manners because i am going to visit Mauritia and Kim Kirchner in Germany at next weekend. They are having a costume party weekend, and i have butterflies in my belly because i look so much forwards to this. Thanks all Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: FW: [h-cost] modes and manners It might be useful to Bjarne to know that in 1775 in England, at least, hand-kissing was not necessarily literal. Witness this dialogue from Richard Brinsley Sheridan's The Rivals. Bob Acres, a country squire eager to appear sophisticated during a visit to Bath, is meeting with his acquaintance Sir Lucius O'Trigger, a landed Irish gentleman of old-fashioned manners: Enter Sir Lucius. SIR LUCIUS: Mr. Acres, I am delighted to embrace you. ACRES: My dear Sir Lucius, I kiss your hands. It is probable that no embracing or hand-kissing actually takes place, but that these are merely verbal expressions of good-will. (Indeed, the moment on stage is much more delicious if the two gentlemen making these statements are standing half a room apart!) So between a gentleman and a lady in 1775 I would imagine (on this theatrical basis) that hand-kissing would be essentially a courtly gesture rather than necessarily a lip-to-flesh experience, and bowing low over the lady's hand would do. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza
Silk Tulle was invented in the last quarter of 18th century. Tulle (name of a french town) was originally a bobbin lace mesh, then they invented a machine to do it much faster. Its just made with cross- twist- twist- twist. cross-twist-twist-twist and so on I believe that the words chiffon, organza was invented in 19th century, but i think the fabrics are older with different names. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Caroline [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza I believe all of the above fabrics can be made from silk but does anyone know when the earliest examples of them stem from? Are they 12th or 20th century inventions. Just curious to know. -- Caroline We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. G B Shaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
I've seen various reproductions of this portrait and Elizabeth's dress is more crimson(red) than pink. Try Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800 by Jean Hunnisett for modern scale patterns for this ensemble. The probable faux undersleeves and upper sleeve lining and underskirt or more likely, forepart, appear to be a gold on gold brocade or cut velvet. The bell, trumpet, or Anne Boleyn style oversleeves, began the 16th century as simple long oversleeves and eventually oversleeve and undersleeve/faux undersleeve components got more elaborate. The bodice is probably the long V waist, with the gold, pearled and jewelled girdle, covering the join(or hook and eye fastening) of bodice to skirt. To accurately make this costume is a lot of work. I did a similar version with the changes needed to bring it up to the 1570's several years ago and it is a lot of work, even for the 24 porcelain doll I made to create it for. First make the shift. You have to make an exact squared neck that a bit of it will appear or not, depending on the portrait you are copying. I made mine of fine cotton as a linen to the scale of the doll couldn't be bought to the limited quantity I needed for a fine linen. The shift was about knee length. Not sure of the white undersleeve construction and I was doing an 1570's, not super wide below the elbow 1540-1560 version, I did the shift sleeves cut wider at the top than a normal shift sleeve and much wider at the bottom, gathering each bottom into a cuff with drawstrings, not elastic. Next was the stays(or corset). My doll was cloth-bodied and firmly stuffed, but I made it complete with stiffining thin doll-scale synthetic horsehair in channels, and handmade sewn eyelets for back lacing and shoulder strap closure. Well worth the work, as seven years later, the stuffing in this area has not dropped or settled. Stays helped the body fight aging and gravity. Somewhat easier to make for the doll was the hip pad and farthingale. I used a linen for both and using Hunnisett's pattern, cheated by sewing double folded bias binding along the marked lines all around in six graduated layers(think of a 19th hoopskirt) to make channels. I used more doll scale narrow horsehair inseted in the channels. I made undersleeves of a pink brocade and a matching forepart. Instead of authentically pinning each in place, I sewed the undersleeves to narrow silk ribbons that were tacked in place on the shift sleeves. I had to engineer this after I did the sleeves on the main gown. Fussy work and probably not authentic, but it was a competition doll and pining all into place would have looked as if I didn't have time to sew it. The forepart I hem stitched to the farthingale--it was just a little larger than the main gown's overskirt opening and had to be cut to its final measurement and installed after I had finished the main gown. Main gown of bodice, oversleeves, shoulder wings, and overskirt was lined and sewn together as one piece, again for competition. Back fastened with hand-sewn eyelets. A partlet, figure-8 ruff and French hood finished the look, along with handmade shoes and feather fan. Purchased stockings were faux fastened with cross-gartered silk ribbons. Hope this helps. Cindy Abel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:25 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth My daughter has chosen the portrait of young Princess Elizabeth for her costume. It is the pink one, Flemish School 1546-1547. Can anyone tell me what colors the sleeves and the front panel are? They seem very pink to me. http://www.sapphireandsage.com/necklaces.html I can't tell if it has a round or pointed bodices. What do you call these kind of sleeves. Any suggestions of how to make of pattern for the sleeves? I found several sites that had sleeve variations but none like these. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza
Why Joan - however fine linen gets I've never seen it transparent. Silk can be transparent and is evidenced in the archaeological record. It is only these women where the veil appears transparent - all the other pictures I have looked at for example Holkham PBB http://tinyurl.com/rlwa6 the Mac Bible http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf44/otm44ra.gif Both of these show opaque veils which I am quite prepared to believe is linen. On 20/02/06, Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would expect the wimples and veils to be fine linen, in this case. Joan At 12:56 PM 2/20/2006, you wrote: The reason I ask is that I have been looking at the ladies on the Luttrell Psalter and it is clear both mother and daughter on the knight on horseback page are wearing both wimples and veils. The fabric drawn is a transparent white and the only thing I can think it is chiffon or tulle. There are some very fine silk fabrics in the Textiles and Clothing (London finds) but I was hoping for some historical perspective. http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/ttp/ttpbooks.html On 20/02/06, Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Caroline wrote: I believe all of the above fabrics can be made from silk but does anyone know when the earliest examples of them stem from? Are they 12th or 20th century inventions. Just curious to know. I'd like to know, too, whether anyone doing historic costume would have a use for silk chiffon or organza in various colors ... they're going for a song at the fabric store where I work, which is in its last week of business before moving. If they're useful, I'll pick them up for resale. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Caroline We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. G B Shaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Caroline We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. G B Shaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Bag
My impression was mid to late 1500s. Though the tassels are something that I would have seen on some Germanic pouches. http://www.ledermuseum.de/vollbild/seiten/42_e.htm http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/M91_165.jpg I have saved that image too. Is it from Lacma? Yep: http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/MWEBimages/C_t02_mm/full/M91_165.jpg http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=recordid=69221type=101 Artist France Title Woman's Purse Date 1595 Media Silk velvet, metallic thread, pearls, silk taffeta Department Costume and Textiles Place Made France michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk chiffon and organza
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can always use natural or white organza for linings, or dye it for some other purpose! I could probably use chiffon, too. I bet others feel the same way, especially those who don't only do period costuming, or aren't extremely anal about authenticity. Since there's been such a response, I'll go in tomorrow and buy up the remaining white chiffon and organza (if there is any) and probably some colors too. If anyone has a want list on colors, e-mail me directly -- and tell me what lengths you need for the piece to be useful, since some of the lengths will be short (that's all we have left). Some of the colors we had (maybe not still there, I don't know) were pretty wild: hot pink, goldenrod, lime green, as well as more boring pastels and beiges. I have no idea what is useful for different periods, though. Bear in mind too that these are lightweight, nearly transparent silks. The chiffon is flimsy and floaty; the organza stiffer. But you can't make a dress out of them (as someone who wrote me seemed to think!). Figure $3-$4/yard plus postage. Our silks normally range up to $11/yard. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anne of cleves and seeing things in contextRe:FlemishRE:tippets ...
Hi Yes i heard this also. In the same program wich also was showed here in Denmark, he told us that Henry complainted of her flat hanging breasts. Those were the words, sorry ladies.. He could not get any lust for her att all Bjarne - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anne of cleves and seeing things in contextRe:FlemishRE:tippets ... - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] It was said that Henry VIII had problems with Anne's Germanic body shape and was heard to once comment that her form was that of a whore. It seems he preferred the small breasted, virginal looking body with his women. This was from a BBC program on Henry. De Interesting--I've always heard from Them that it was sort of the other way around; H8 got the impression of a nicely rounded woman from Holbein's painting, then found himself with a thin, non-curvy woman... at which point he supposedly got mad at Holbein and fired him. Has anyone else heard this version? The other version does make sense, based on the portraits of his other wives (except CofA). -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] silk chiffon and tulle
In 18th century they used a lot of silk gauge wich is a very light transparent silk fabric used for all those trimmings and decorations they used all over at the second part of 18th century. A nice natural white chiffon would be a good substitute for this... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Actually the owner of Calontir trim and I was reminded that it was someone else who made it for him. De -Original Message- And thinking of multi- colours, this reminded me of someone I know who made a man's Landsknecht in various Hawaiian print fabric. Bright colors too. Sounds like something Lord Joel woulh have done . Jerusha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza
Linen also can be fine enough to be transparent. Joan At 01:33 PM 2/20/2006, you wrote: Why Joan - however fine linen gets I've never seen it transparent. Silk can be transparent and is evidenced in the archaeological record. It is only these women where the veil appears transparent - all the other pictures I have looked at for example Holkham PBB http://tinyurl.com/rlwa6 the Mac Bible http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf44/otm44ra.gif Both of these show opaque veils which I am quite prepared to believe is linen. On 20/02/06, Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would expect the wimples and veils to be fine linen, in this case. Joan At 12:56 PM 2/20/2006, you wrote: The reason I ask is that I have been looking at the ladies on the Luttrell Psalter and it is clear both mother and daughter on the knight on horseback page are wearing both wimples and veils. The fabric drawn is a transparent white and the only thing I can think it is chiffon or tulle. There are some very fine silk fabrics in the Textiles and Clothing (London finds) but I was hoping for some historical perspective. http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/ttp/ttpbooks.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Mystery Bag
Made in France...I wonder how it would look if you changes the fabric color and wore it with this? http://www.marileecody.com/isabel.jpg De -Original Message- I have saved that image too. Is it from Lacma? Yep: http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/MWEBimages/C_t02_mm/full/M91_165.jpg http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=recordid=69221; type=101 Artist France Title Woman's Purse Date 1595 Media Silk velvet, metallic thread, pearls, silk taffeta Department Costume and Textiles Place Made France michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: OT: Urinetown (was 1930's factory wear)
Mine is in Palo Alto, Ca. I can't speak for Kelly. There is also a version at my daughter's old performing arts department here in Newark... I think when Broadway releases these shows they get snapped up by everyone! If it's not terribly far from you, come see ours in Palo Alto at the Lucie Stern. It opens the 28th of April. angela + Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech... W. Shakespeare - Original Message - From: Mary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:14 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT: Urinetown (was 1930's factory wear) One of the local theater groups in Santa Rosa, CA, is also doing Urinetown. Is this yet another production, or is this being costumed by one of you? If the latter, it gives me even greater incentive to go. :-) ~mary (Sorry for the late reply, I got behind on this list and I'm still trying to catch up) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:00:20 -0400 From: Kelly Grant Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1930's factory wear/Urinetown What is this...the year for depression era Urinetown???We're doing the same sho for the final one of the season...we'll get the scetches next week! Kelly From: Cabbage Rose Costumes Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1930's factory wear Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:09:30 -0800 Can anyone on the list point me to a source for period uniforms for the depression era? Or perhaps even abroad in the 1930s. I am doing a production of Urinetown, and we are going for a thirties depression era feel, although the show is not actually set in any time period. (It's actually the future, I believe). I did a few cursory net searches without much luck, but thought perhaps someone already had some sourcing and could save me some time for my inspiration. As always, thanks in advance. angela + Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design «:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:».«:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:» Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick wicked. ~ Jane Austen Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before. ~ Steven Wright ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Actually the owner of Calontir trim and I was reminded that it was someone else who made it for him. Drix. Hmmm. Could have been Joel, I guess. Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
Oh. I think I get it. You mean garments with tiny pleats, and not tiny, pleated garments. Gotta love the English language! ;o) I *thought* you were referring to the now-discredited theory of a corselet being worn around the torso of people in bliaut. --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question I don't have any sites in particular to show you and I do not know the term. But there are garments for which I have heard refered to as bliauts. The material looks like the Fortune' material or the very fine pleating of some Landesknecht hemd. The statue on the left, note the skirt. http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~lwittie/sca/garb/bliaut.html This site says that light weight silks were used to make bliauts so never mind about what I said about the light weight salmon silk. http://web.comhem.se/~u41200125/greenbliaut.html De -Original Message- Mini pleated type garment??? --Sue, missing the reference completely... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
When did you see it in the Portrait Gallery? I was in England in 2002, and saw the painting at Windsor. The dress was screaming pink, no orange to it at all. The forepart and undersleeves are made of a gold pile/cream base cut and voided velvet, although I suspect that the pile, in this case, is gold thread (looks distinctly metallic). --Sue, wondering if there are two of them out there - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth I saw this painting in the National Portrait Gallery London several years ago and the main dress is reddish orange and the forepart and lower sleeves are gold velvet cutwork. I can't tell if it has a round or pointed bodices. The bodice is pointed and the skirt is attached. The skirt is flat in front and has cartridge or knife pleats starting at the sides. It would have a full back skirt and probably a train. What do you call these kind of sleeves. Any suggestions of how to make of pattern for the sleeves? I don't think the sleeves have a particular name other than maybe tudor sleeves. The over sleeve (reddish orange) is a very large bell shape which was probably a revival of the medieval bell sleeves. They are then folded back and pinned on the upper arm. The lower sleeves (gold cutwork) are debated as to how they are made. My research found that they are a separate sleeve accent that probably ties to a ribbon on the inside of the bell sleeve. It can be a round-ish stuffed ball or a finished fancy fabric that folds over the arm and ties on the bottom. There is a different tudor portait that shows that there is a corner showing near the elbow. So it would seem that the sleeves do not extend all the way to the top of the arm. I can send you a picture of my lower sleeves and whole tudor outfit if you want to e-mail me privately. Hope that helps! Diana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
When did you see it in the Portrait Gallery? I was in England in 2002, and saw the painting at Windsor. The dress was screaming pink, no orange to it at all. The forepart and undersleeves are made of a gold pile/cream base cut and voided velvet, although I suspect that the pile, in this case, is gold thread (looks distinctly metallic). --Sue, wondering if there are two of them out there Hmmm...maybe I was mistaken. I know I saw the Princess Mary Tudor portrait while I was there. I thought I saw the Elizabeth one, too. But seeing the Mary Tudor portrait in person was pretty cool because I discovered that her chemise had redwork on the cuffs! I hadn't heard of redwork before then and the photos I had seen of the painting didn't have enough detail to show it. Very cool! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Re: Silk chiffon and organza and tulle
for what it's worth, according to my cunningtons and beard, tulle is a fine silk bobbin net first made by machine at Nottingham in 1768. Organza doesn't appear (the closest is organdie). and chiffon is dated to 1890, and described as a delicate silk barege or grenadine (both of those are attributed to 19th C too). they're still really nice fabrics though. it could be a very very fine wool depicted in the pictures. I've seen wools that are close to transparent, and my own veil, though not transparent, is finer than most linens, even though it's 100% wool. debs ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk chiffon and organza
In a message dated 2/20/2006 7:05:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I could probably use chiffon, too. I bet others feel the same way, especially those who don't only do period costuming, You forget20th century is period. Chiffon is just ideal for many teens, 20s and 30s fashionsand even 50s, 60s and 70s. Why did I leave the 40s out? And organdy is a standard for children's clothes from the turn of the 19th century to the present [especially in the 50s]. I've seen 1860s outfits of silk gauzeand silk chiffon could work for these light outfits. Organdy makes great petticoats or ruffles for petticoats. And, as someone mentioned, is a great stabilizer to put in garments of light fabrics. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
Misremembering happens to all of us! g Seriously, though, it could be two different copies--I know that some of the portraits of Elizabeth I (as queen) and her sister, Mary, were done multipe times--there's that great chapter in QEUnlocked that talks about them. So it could be that, especially since so many of our details are similar. And maybe it explains why some of the reproductions seem so pink and others more orange? I don't know about yours--we only had time for the National Gallery of Art (which was on its last day of a Truly Cool Exhibit on Fabric in Portraits), and didn't make it over to the Portrait Gallery. Well, maybe we could have, if I hadn't been making a complete pig of myself in the bookstore. weg I've seen monochrome embroidery done in red in a couple of portraits in my books, and a little of it in the Textile Rooms at the VA. A friend of mine says it's known as morisco work (spelling optional at this time of the evening ;o) I *think* I've got a copy of a painting of Mary I with red embroidery somewhere. I *think.* (sorry...bad case of chocolate cravings paired with knitting fatigue from the Knitting Olympics! LOL!) --Sue p.s. I like your Ghandi quote - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth When did you see it in the Portrait Gallery? I was in England in 2002, and saw the painting at Windsor. The dress was screaming pink, no orange to it at all. The forepart and undersleeves are made of a gold pile/cream base cut and voided velvet, although I suspect that the pile, in this case, is gold thread (looks distinctly metallic). --Sue, wondering if there are two of them out there Hmmm...maybe I was mistaken. I know I saw the Princess Mary Tudor portrait while I was there. I thought I saw the Elizabeth one, too. But seeing the Mary Tudor portrait in person was pretty cool because I discovered that her chemise had redwork on the cuffs! I hadn't heard of redwork before then and the photos I had seen of the painting didn't have enough detail to show it. Very cool! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silk chiffon and tulle
When I got my set of swatches from Dharma a couple of years ago, I was surprised to find out that the barely there veiling in all those Italian portraits was a real fabric. (My taste runs to linen and wool with interesting weaves.) Dharma has white silk gauze in two weights and widths, here: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1639206-AA.shtml and they'll send you a swatch for just a quarter. -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Handlebar Mustaches
My son is wanting to grow out his mustache to make a handlebar style. He wants to know does he needs to grow out the whiskers across the entire mustache? Just the sides or under his nose? If anyone knows of a website that can give him directions or care for this style of mustache he would really appreciate it. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
Do you think that Elizabeth had a partlet in the 1547 portrait? I can't tell from the images I have. If she does it must have been majorly transparent. I found a fabric that is almost the same color of the fabric in the portrait, down to the overall pattern. I couldn't remember what the sleeves looked like so I didn't buy the sleeve fabrics. I printed the image I have and everything turned out VERY pink. I found a better image and can see the true colors now. I know the gown will be work but well worth it if it looks the way it should. I took a class in textiles where we studied ancient fabrics. It covered Peruvian, Chinese/Japanese and others. One fabric in the Japanese files that I remember had the metallic threads in loops. We covered how to make the same effect nowadays. It would be a lot of extra work so I plan to find a fabric that looks similar instead. I feel very confident I can make the dress in the portrait or a very close facsimile. I foudn the pattern for the bell shaped sleeves, even down to the holes at the wrist. I'm looking for the source of those now. I should have written it down and not just saved the image. - Original Message - From: Abel, Cynthia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 6:03 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth I've seen various reproductions of this portrait and Elizabeth's dress is more crimson(red) than pink. Try Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800 by Jean Hunnisett for modern scale patterns for this ensemble. The probable faux undersleeves and upper sleeve lining and underskirt or more likely, forepart, appear to be a gold on gold brocade or cut velvet. The bell, trumpet, or Anne Boleyn style oversleeves, began the 16th century as simple long oversleeves and eventually oversleeve and undersleeve/faux undersleeve components got more elaborate. The bodice is probably the long V waist, with the gold, pearled and jewelled girdle, covering the join(or hook and eye fastening) of bodice to skirt. To accurately make this costume is a lot of work. I did a similar version with the changes needed to bring it up to the 1570's several years ago and it is a lot of work, even for the 24 porcelain doll I made to create it for. First make the shift. You have to make an exact squared neck that a bit of it will appear or not, depending on the portrait you are copying. I made mine of fine cotton as a linen to the scale of the doll couldn't be bought to the limited quantity I needed for a fine linen. The shift was about knee length. Not sure of the white undersleeve construction and I was doing an 1570's, not super wide below the elbow 1540-1560 version, I did the shift sleeves cut wider at the top than a normal shift sleeve and much wider at the bottom, gathering each bottom into a cuff with drawstrings, not elastic. Next was the stays(or corset). My doll was cloth-bodied and firmly stuffed, but I made it complete with stiffining thin doll-scale synthetic horsehair in channels, and handmade sewn eyelets for back lacing and shoulder strap closure. Well worth the work, as seven years later, the stuffing in this area has not dropped or settled. Stays helped the body fight aging and gravity. Somewhat easier to make for the doll was the hip pad and farthingale. I used a linen for both and using Hunnisett's pattern, cheated by sewing double folded bias binding along the marked lines all around in six graduated layers(think of a 19th hoopskirt) to make channels. I used more doll scale narrow horsehair inseted in the channels. I made undersleeves of a pink brocade and a matching forepart. Instead of authentically pinning each in place, I sewed the undersleeves to narrow silk ribbons that were tacked in place on the shift sleeves. I had to engineer this after I did the sleeves on the main gown. Fussy work and probably not authentic, but it was a competition doll and pining all into place would have looked as if I didn't have time to sew it. The forepart I hem stitched to the farthingale--it was just a little larger than the main gown's overskirt opening and had to be cut to its final measurement and installed after I had finished the main gown. Main gown of bodice, oversleeves, shoulder wings, and overskirt was lined and sewn together as one piece, again for competition. Back fastened with hand-sewn eyelets. A partlet, figure-8 ruff and French hood finished the look, along with handmade shoes and feather fan. Purchased stockings were faux fastened with cross-gartered silk ribbons. Hope this helps. Cindy Abel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:25 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth My daughter has chosen the portrait of young Princess Elizabeth for her costume. It is the pink one, Flemish School 1546-1547. Can anyone tell me what colors the sleeves and
[h-cost] Olympics costumes
Has anyone been watching curling at the Olympics? Does anyone know what kind of shoes the athletes are wearing? I thought at first they were skates. But they are not. They are soled shoes that glide on the ice easily. Any opinions on the ice dancing costumes? There must have been a sale on skin-toned beige. LOL! I heard today that one rule is that the women could not show their navels. The featured swan costume was molting! Maybe she should have met up with the male skater, Weir's swan costume. Some of the snowboard outfits looked like 1950s pajamas. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Olympics costumes
On Feb 20, 2006, at 10:38 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: Any opinions on the ice dancing costumes? There must have been a sale on skin-toned beige. LOL! I heard today that one rule is that the women could not show their navels. The featured swan costume was molting! Maybe she should have met up with the male skater, Weir's swan costume. It seems the style this year is very bare midriffs with the bodice and skirt attached only at the center front. And too many of the outfits are way overdone, combining too many disparate elements in one costume. Sylrog ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Olympics costumes
The curling shoes have a rubber slip on sole that they use to walk on the ice. They remove the slip on part to reveal a composition sole that glides. This they use this sole when they are throwing the stone. They replace the over -portion for the balance of the time. I heard the explanation on the TV broadcast. Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 21, 2006, at 12:38 AM, Penny Ladnier wrote: Has anyone been watching curling at the Olympics? Does anyone know what kind of shoes the athletes are wearing? I thought at first they were skates. But they are not. They are soled shoes that glide on the ice easily. Any opinions on the ice dancing costumes? There must have been a sale on skin-toned beige. LOL! I heard today that one rule is that the women could not show their navels. The featured swan costume was molting! Maybe she should have met up with the male skater, Weir's swan costume. Some of the snowboard outfits looked like 1950s pajamas. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Handlebar Mustaches
In a message dated 2/21/2006 12:16:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He wants to know does he needs to grow out the whiskers across the entire mustache? He needs to just grow a regular 'stache long and comb the two halves away from each other. He might need to trim the whiskers just over his top lip if he doesn't want to eat them. But you need long whiskers to do it right. I wax mine with bee's wax I got in the hair care section of the local drug store. It's in a tin, and usually used to seal the ends of braids or dreadlocks so it sometimes is with the Afro hair care stuff. Don't get the stuff in the little green tubes. It's awful. Anyway, he might find the both side of the 'stache want to curl in the same direction...like mine. This is really annoying and require frequent checking to make sure one side isn't 'unraveling. It's not care free. One of those little moustache combs is very handy. Of course a thick burly moustache works best. There is also a style [popular in the 1870s and 90s] where the Moustache is very trimmed and just the sides are let grow a bit and then waxed straight out to each side instead of curled. Very dapper! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Looking for a magazine
I'm trying to track down a European sewing magazine for a friend. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the November 2001 Burda Magazine (prefereable in English)? Thanks. Kathleen Norvell ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Olympics costumes
Susan, Thank you for the explanation. So are you hooked on curling too? It looks like a combination of the games, pool and marbles. Both I loved to play when I was young. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silk chiffon and tulle
Aha Bjarne - I have evidence for 'silk grege' from medieval Scotland. It appears to raw silk (still gummed) with, interestingly, gold painted onto it. I would expect that to be quite stiff - used for hats today I believe. Helen - I think what I am trying to explore is the transparent fabric on the Luttrell ladies the first artistic evidence of the same fine silk gauze fabric (regardless of what you want to call it) On 21/02/06, Helen Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I got my set of swatches from Dharma a couple of years ago, I was surprised to find out that the barely there veiling in all those Italian portraits was a real fabric. (My taste runs to linen and wool with interesting weaves.) Dharma has white silk gauze in two weights and widths, here: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1639206-AA.shtml and they'll send you a swatch for just a quarter. -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Caroline We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. G B Shaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Handlebar Mustaches
Thank you Albert Cat! He will really appreciate your advice. He has been growing his hair and beard out. He said when the mustache get long enough, he is cutting his hair and beard. Then he is going to leave the mustache for a week. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk chiffon and organza
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And organdy is a standard for children's clothes from the turn of the 19th century to the present [especially in the 50s]. ... Organdy makes great petticoats or ruffles for petticoats. And, as someone mentioned, is a great stabilizer to put in garments of light fabrics. But organdy and organza are two very different things, an order of magnitude different in weight! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza
I've got a 4 yard piece of linen that I got at an estate sale that is sheer enough to easily read through; it's as sheer as chiffon. When I first got it, I did a burn test and also tested it in bleach and it's definately linen. It has a stamped image on it (maybe 2x2) that indicates the country of origin. It's packed away and I can't get to it. When I can locate it, I'll post what the stamp says. kate - Original Message - From: Caroline [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Tulle, Chiffon, Organza Why Joan - however fine linen gets I've never seen it transparent. Silk can be transparent and is evidenced in the archaeological record. It is only these women where the veil appears transparent - all the other pictures I have looked at for example Holkham PBB http://tinyurl.com/rlwa6 the Mac Bible http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf44/otm44ra.gif Both of these show opaque veils which I am quite prepared to believe is linen. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
