Re: [h-cost] Searching for pattern

[Laurie Taylor]

I probably do,  but am at work.   Can let you know later today.
On Mar 11, 2014 4:41 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden aylwe...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Does anyone here have a copy of Simplicity 3635 and 3637 (size 8-14) they
 no longer need that I can buy or that I can borrow for personal use?
 Its the blue 18th Century gown and panniers.

 Many thanks,
 Aylwen

 *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*

 *Jane Austen Festival Australia http://www.janeaustenfestival.com.au *
 *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy
 http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/*
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Re: [h-cost] Stupid question

[Laurie Taylor]

Actually, the 'worn-out' pair of Fiskars might not be a total waste, each
time you replaced them.  They'd really only be worn out for fabric, but
might still work quite well on paper.  Don't need a bunch of paper pinkers?
No problem... a preschool, an art teacher (any grade), a community center's
crafts program...there would be plenty of places where a pair of shears,
suitable only for paper, would be appreciated!  And since I like your idea,
I'm going to keep it in mind for future use!

Laurie T.
Phoenix

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Galadriel
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 6:18 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stupid question

I bought a new pair of Gingher pinking shears and had the same thing happen
so I sent them off to Gingher to sharpen.  It took them *3 tries* to sharpen
them to my satisfaction.  I think they're testing them on wigan or muslin or
something slightly crisp.  I ended up sending a piece of the silk charmeuse
I was trying to pink and told them I needed them to pink it.  What a pain.
I actually kind of hate the Gingher pinking shears but since they're the
ONLY people who sharpen pinking shears, I feel like I have to use them,
although I'm beginning to think buying a new pair of Fiskars on sale every
time my pinking shears get dull might be much less of a hassle (though
wasteful).

--Rachel
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Re: [h-cost] Stupid question

[Laurie Taylor]

Also, be prepared for different fabrics to prefer one pair or the other.  I
have both Fiskars and Ginghers, and which one I use does end up depending on
the fabric.

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Betsy Marshall
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 11:04 AM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stupid question

I had the same problem with my mom's pinking shears; what worked for me was
to apply some lateral stress (twist? Hard to describe) to the handles as I
was cutting, making sure the two edges were pressed towards each other;
giving a good shearing cut. Any kind of gap between blades led to the
smush/fray effect you describe; practice on some muslin, and maybe check to
see if the pivot point/connection is good and tight..and hope this
helped..Betsy

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lauren Walker
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 11:47 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Stupid question

Hi, costumers,
I do lots of sewing things. But I can't get pinking shears to work for me. I
have a new pair of Ginghers and an old pair my brother used all the time in
his various design and sewing businesses, so they must have worked for him.
I would believe they might need sharpening, but I doubt the Ginghers do yet,
and both do the same thing, so I think it is my (lack of) technique. 
The shears do not make a nice zigzag cut. They kind of squish and shred the
fabric, and sometimes don't even cut. 
I am pretty sure the Ginghers are as sharp as they're supposed to be; but I
actually have somewhat better luck with my brother's old shears. 
Does the fabric have to be under tension or something? 
Thanks!
Lauren
Lauren M. Walker
lauren.wal...@comcast.net




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[h-cost] Thompson, Voice of Fashion pattern books

[Laurie Taylor]

Good evening,

Has anyone here used Mrs. Thompson's or the Voice of Fashion pattern books
to produce patterns from the late 1890'2, early 1900's?  All of these
pattern systems require the use of scales to draft to the desired size.  The
reprinted Voice of Fashion book has the scales in the back of the book, so
that the user can photocopy them and put them on a durable product (plastic
or oaktag) for use when drafting from the book.

I've never been able to find any of the scales for Mrs. Thompson's pattern
system.  I don't have any idea how close the Voice of Fashion scales would
be to Mrs. Thompson's.  Have any of you seen a set of scales for Mrs.
Thompson's, or used one system's scales to draft from another system?

The Keystone Cutter for jackets does not use scales, but rather uses the
intended wearer's actual measurements, much like many of the menswear
drafting systems of the late 19th C.  I really want to try the scale systems
though, and particularly Mrs. Thompson's, since one of her books contains
the designs that I want for a 1903 outfit.

Thank you!

Laurie T.
Phoenix





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Re: [h-cost] Thompson, Voice of Fashion pattern books

[Laurie Taylor]

Thank you Fran!  That helps a lot.  You've confirmed some of what I had
concluded from my own studies, and given me what I need to be able to move
ahead with this project.  In reality, I won't get exactly the fit I want,
regardless of whether I use the right scales for the system.  I'll still
need to make a muslin and fit and alter, but I can live with that.  I'm
going to play with using the Voice of Fashion scales that I have, together
with the Thompson draft that suits my project.   Worst come to worst, it
will be a learning opportunity.

And thanks for the heads-up on finding scale on e-bay.  I'll definitely do
that.

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lavolta Press
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:36 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thompson, Voice of Fashion pattern books

There is quite a number of 19th- and early 20th-century apportioning scale
systems, and they were used in countries other than the US. The earliest
sets I have date to the 1840s; one is French and goes with a women's
magazine, and one is German and goes with a men's tailoring book.  I have
references for French systems dating to the 1820s, but have not yet located
those systems.

Generally the units are different for each system, and sometimes for the
same system of a different date.  There are also differences in how scales
are selected and used to draft different parts of a garment. So sure, you
can use the scales for any system to draft the patterns for any other
system. But in most cases, you won't get the intended fit.

I think some people have been accidentally misled by the fact that the
scales for the American Modiste magazine, which I used in my book The
Edwardian Modiste, have the same size units as the scales for my book Voice
of Fashion, which contains 1900-1906 patterns for the magazine of the same
name.  That does not mean all apportioning scales are the same.  In fact,
before I published my more recent books Bustle Fashions
1885-1887 and Directoire Revival Fashions 1888-1889, I found out that the
owner of the Voice of Fashion magazine started with one set of scales, then
switched to scales with different units in the mid 1890s.  
There is no technical reason for him to have done this, no change in
convenience for the pattern drafter. He went through several different
business partners and my guess is the one who owned rights to the original
system left the firm.

I recommend that anyone anxious to get a set of scales for Thompson's system
or any other keep an eye on eBay, the Font of All Stuff.  That's where I've
bought many of my sets of scales and patterns that use them.

Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com
www.facebook.com/LavoltaPress



On 6/23/2012 8:11 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:
 Good evening,

 Has anyone here used Mrs. Thompson's or the Voice of Fashion pattern 
 books to produce patterns from the late 1890'2, early 1900's?  All of 
 these pattern systems require the use of scales to draft to the 
 desired size.  The reprinted Voice of Fashion book has the scales in 
 the back of the book, so that the user can photocopy them and put them 
 on a durable product (plastic or oaktag) for use when drafting from the
book.

 I've never been able to find any of the scales for Mrs. Thompson's 
 pattern system.  I don't have any idea how close the Voice of Fashion 
 scales would be to Mrs. Thompson's.  Have any of you seen a set of scales
for Mrs.
 Thompson's, or used one system's scales to draft from another system?

 The Keystone Cutter for jackets does not use scales, but rather uses 
 the intended wearer's actual measurements, much like many of the 
 menswear drafting systems of the late 19th C.  I really want to try 
 the scale systems though, and particularly Mrs. Thompson's, since one 
 of her books contains the designs that I want for a 1903 outfit.

 Thank you!

 Laurie T.
 Phoenix





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[h-cost] Image search - help?

[Laurie Taylor]

Greetings,

A while back, before Xmas, I was researching sideless surcote pictures
online. Had a few images open in tabs, and had a crash before I got them all
saved.

One in particular is still haunting me. Period painting, a group of people
with some emphasis towards the left side of the painting (viewer's
perspective) -  One woman was seated, turned slightly to her right, the
viewer's left. She was wearing a sideless surcote in what would be called
pink ...in modern terms, but a deep, rich pink if I recall correctly, and it
was draped on the floor around her feet.

I've been hunting for this image ever since, and absolutely cannot find it.
I'm starting to wonder if I imagined it. I've gone through every Google
result that seemed even remotely likely.  I'm quite sure that it was not a
painting from any sort of Codex.  It seems like it was a fairly light,
bright painting.  I think that it was from the right time for sideless
gowns, so not anything like a Victorian fantasy, not a pre-Raphaelite for
sure.  

This image could have been in someone's PDF file, or it could have been
right on a web page. I do remember thinking that I'd love to have done a
reproduction of whatever her whole outfit was, though the surcote was the
most noticeable thing about it, at least at the moment that I was seeing it.

I've seen many images of sideless surcotes in what could be called pink, and
many of women seated and wearing sideless surcotes, yet this one image
eludes me.  I know that this is asking a lot, but if this minimal bit of
description jogs anything for any of you, I'd sure appreciate any nudges in
the direction of images that might be this one.

Appreciative of your patience and your help!

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

[Laurie Taylor]

Thanks, but no, this was before Christmas, and I don't keep my browser
history for more than a day.  Something about security as I recall, though
this image is making me doubt my recall entirely!  It's out there.  Someday
I'll find it.  Tonight it's bugging me.  Tomorrow, I'll be too busy with
Estrella War packing to bother worrying about it.  After War, I'll look some
more.

Laurie T.


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth W
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:00 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

You've probably already covered this but I'm not sure how much data
you have lost. Do you have access to your browser history around that
time? To me that would be the best option available. If not I'm afraid
it's not my period so I can't help out.

On 3/26/12, Laurie Taylor mazarineblu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Greetings,

 A while back, before Xmas, I was researching sideless surcote pictures
 online. Had a few images open in tabs, and had a crash before I got them
all
 saved.

 One in particular is still haunting me. Period painting, a group of people
 with some emphasis towards the left side of the painting (viewer's
 perspective) -  One woman was seated, turned slightly to her right, the
 viewer's left. She was wearing a sideless surcote in what would be called
 pink ...in modern terms, but a deep, rich pink if I recall correctly, and
it
 was draped on the floor around her feet.

 I've been hunting for this image ever since, and absolutely cannot find
it.
 I'm starting to wonder if I imagined it. I've gone through every Google
 result that seemed even remotely likely.  I'm quite sure that it was not a
 painting from any sort of Codex.  It seems like it was a fairly light,
 bright painting.  I think that it was from the right time for sideless
 gowns, so not anything like a Victorian fantasy, not a pre-Raphaelite for
 sure.

 This image could have been in someone's PDF file, or it could have been
 right on a web page. I do remember thinking that I'd love to have done a
 reproduction of whatever her whole outfit was, though the surcote was the
 most noticeable thing about it, at least at the moment that I was seeing
it.

 I've seen many images of sideless surcotes in what could be called pink,
and
 many of women seated and wearing sideless surcotes, yet this one image
 eludes me.  I know that this is asking a lot, but if this minimal bit of
 description jogs anything for any of you, I'd sure appreciate any nudges
in
 the direction of images that might be this one.

 Appreciative of your patience and your help!

 Laurie T.
 Phoenix

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-- 
--
Elizabeth Walpole
http://magpiecostumer.wordpress.com/
http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
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Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

And thank you, but I've found that page several time myself.  The pink
sideless does seem as though it matches what I've described remembering, but
it's not it.  

I've even gone ahead and reviewed as much of the Pre-Raphaelite work as I
can, since there is some medieval-inspired content mixed in with all of the
Greco-Roman, but no, I'm not mis-remembering something from that movement.

I know that when I saw this image it surprised me, as it was the first time
I'd seen it ever, in spite of having done many hours of image research on
sideless surcotes, on many previous occasions.  No idea why this image is so
obscure or elusive.  I may be in for some sort of shock, if ever I do see it
again. 

Laurie



-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Monica Spence
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:09 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

Hi Laurie,
 Try these links.

http://vieuxchamps.com/persona/enlarged/wg/wpic11.php

http://vieuxchamps.com/persona/wgarb2.php

Best Regards,
 Monica Spence


--

On 3/26/12, Laurie Taylor mazarineblu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Greetings,

 A while back, before Xmas, I was researching sideless surcote pictures 
 online. Had a few images open in tabs, and had a crash before I got 
 them all saved.

 One in particular is still haunting me. Period painting, a group of 
 people with some emphasis towards the left side of the painting 
 (viewer's
 perspective) -  One woman was seated, turned slightly to her right, 
 the viewer's left. She was wearing a sideless surcote in what would be 
 called pink ...in modern terms, but a deep, rich pink if I recall 
 correctly, and it was draped on the floor around her feet.

 I've been hunting for this image ever since, and absolutely cannot find
it.
 I'm starting to wonder if I imagined it. I've gone through every 
 Google result that seemed even remotely likely.  I'm quite sure that 
 it was not a painting from any sort of Codex.  It seems like it was a 
 fairly light, bright painting.  I think that it was from the right 
 time for sideless gowns, so not anything like a Victorian fantasy, not 
 a pre-Raphaelite for sure.

 This image could have been in someone's PDF file, or it could have 
 been right on a web page. I do remember thinking that I'd love to have 
 done a reproduction of whatever her whole outfit was, though the 
 surcote was the most noticeable thing about it, at least at the moment
that I was seeing it.

 I've seen many images of sideless surcotes in what could be called 
 pink, and many of women seated and wearing sideless surcotes, yet this 
 one image eludes me.  I know that this is asking a lot, but if this 
 minimal bit of description jogs anything for any of you, I'd sure 
 appreciate any nudges in the direction of images that might be this one.

 Appreciative of your patience and your help!

 Laurie T.
 Phoenix

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--
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http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
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Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

[Laurie Taylor]

Wonderful that you could find that from my vague description, and I do adore
the images of the Codex Manesse, but still that's not it.  I don't think
that the image I'm remembering was quite as early as the Codex Manesse, and
the sideless in my missing image is probably a later style sideless, with
the larger side openings.  Beyond that...maybe I'm just crazy?

Thanks!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Helen Pinto
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:25 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

You might have seen someone's interpretation of f 249v from the Manesse
Codex. The page has two people on a light background, the woman is seated to
the left looking over her right shoulder and she's wearing a light red
sideless surcoat puddled around her feet. In the interpretation, the surcoat
is definitely pink, not red. 

You can see a copy of f 249v here: 
http://lumillule.wordpress.com/ 

And the interpretation here: 
http://turquoise26-terreetciel.blogspot.com/2011/07/le-codex-manesse.html 

Hope this helps, 
-Helen/Aidan 

- Original Message -
From: Laurie Taylor mazarineblu...@gmail.com 
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:30:12 PM 
Subject: [h-cost] Image search - help? 

Greetings, 

A while back, before Xmas, I was researching sideless surcote pictures 
online. Had a few images open in tabs, and had a crash before I got them all

saved. 

One in particular is still haunting me. Period painting, a group of people 
with some emphasis towards the left side of the painting (viewer's 
perspective) - One woman was seated, turned slightly to her right, the 
viewer's left. She was wearing a sideless surcote in what would be called 
pink ...in modern terms, but a deep, rich pink if I recall correctly, and it

was draped on the floor around her feet. 

I've been hunting for this image ever since, and absolutely cannot find it. 
I'm starting to wonder if I imagined it. I've gone through every Google 
result that seemed even remotely likely. I'm quite sure that it was not a 
painting from any sort of Codex. It seems like it was a fairly light, 
bright painting. I think that it was from the right time for sideless 
gowns, so not anything like a Victorian fantasy, not a pre-Raphaelite for 
sure. 

This image could have been in someone's PDF file, or it could have been 
right on a web page. I do remember thinking that I'd love to have done a 
reproduction of whatever her whole outfit was, though the surcote was the 
most noticeable thing about it, at least at the moment that I was seeing it.


I've seen many images of sideless surcotes in what could be called pink, and

many of women seated and wearing sideless surcotes, yet this one image 
eludes me. I know that this is asking a lot, but if this minimal bit of 
description jogs anything for any of you, I'd sure appreciate any nudges in 
the direction of images that might be this one. 

Appreciative of your patience and your help! 

Laurie T. 
Phoenix 

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Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

[Laurie Taylor]

Oh Robin, I know, and I sure wish that I could come up with something more
specific.  Yes, there was something about the image that made me keep it
open in a tab, when I was busily viewing others and closing them, and made
me feel a little sick when the browser crashed.  It had turned up for the
first and only time, in spite of so many previous sideless surcote
expeditions.  If ever I can recall anything else about it, I will be sure to
drop you a query.  

Best I can say is that she was seated, her left 3/4 profile towards the
artist, wearing a later sideless, not the high armholes of the Manesse Codex
era.  I think that there were other women in the painting, but not 100%
certain about that.

No, don't try to look based on the little that I can recall, but perhaps
someday you'll be looking for some other purpose, and one will jump out at
you and demand that you bring it to my attention - if I am really, really
lucky.

And by the way, a very belated thank you for your educational efforts at
Costume College last year.  While I'm not likely to tackle a GFD any time
soon, I so very much enjoyed your explanations of your process for fitting
and making the supportive gown.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Robin Netherton
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:01 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - help?

On 3/25/2012 11:30 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:

 I know that when I saw this image it surprised me, as it was the first
time
 I'd seen it ever, in spite of having done many hours of image research on
 sideless surcotes, on many previous occasions.  No idea why this image is
so
 obscure or elusive.  I may be in for some sort of shock, if ever I do see
it
 again.

I've read your description (quoted below), but I'm not quite catching why
this 
image is special. As you said, there's plenty of images of surcotes, and 
plenty of those images were painted with pink pigments. Was there something 
about this one that made it unusual?

I should note that I have a collection of several hundred surcote images, 
including quite a few I've photographed off the original artworks, but the 
description you gave is way too generic for me to even begin to look.

--Robin

 One in particular is still haunting me. Period painting, a group of
 people with some emphasis towards the left side of the painting
 (viewer's
 perspective) -  One woman was seated, turned slightly to her right,
 the viewer's left. She was wearing a sideless surcote in what would be
 called pink ...in modern terms, but a deep, rich pink if I recall
 correctly, and it was draped on the floor around her feet.
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[h-cost] (no subject)

[Laurie Taylor]

Greetings all, 

I've been mulling this bit of trivia around in my head for the longest time.
I think I need to share it and see if any of you know of any support or
documentation for this information.  

Most Unusual Concession to Modesty: The earliest Christians believed that
the Virgin Mary was impregnated through her ear and that other women as well
had used their ears as reproductive organs.  For that reason, an exposed
female ear was considered no less an outrage than an exposed thigh, and a
woman would not appear in public unless clad in a tight-fitting wimple.

Felton, Bruce, and Mark Fowler. Part II, Behavior. The Best, Worst, and
Most Unusual: Noteworthy Achievements, Events, Feats and Blunders of Every
Conceivable Kind. New York: Galahad, 1994. 428. Print.

So, the wimple had to develop for some reason.  Is this reason believable?
Documentable?  Are there any other reasons that would be more legitimate
based on available documentation? 


Laurie Taylor
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Wimple origins - was (no subject) - oops, sorry

[Laurie Taylor]

Just realized that I forgot to put in a subject line.  My apologies.

Well, I'm just curious and had to ask of more knowledgeable minds.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Cin
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:42 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] (no subject)

Huh, I was under the impression that the covered head (regardless of
location or specific era) was from something in Leviticus.  You'll
have to find someone more aware of things Biblical than I am for
further info.

In any case, and I havent read the article, linking a fashion trend to
what everybody knows sounds like a stretch.  I have no evidence or
inclination towards of aural insemination, just a hunch that it's a
quaint old wives tale written down  oft repeated cuz it's so
marvelously silly.
I'm off to think Ragtime era thoughts.
--cin
Cynthia Barnes
cinbar...@gmail.com



On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Laurie Taylor
mazarineblu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Greetings all,

 I've been mulling this bit of trivia around in my head for the longest
time.
 I think I need to share it and see if any of you know of any support or
 documentation for this information.

 Most Unusual Concession to Modesty: The earliest Christians believed that
 the Virgin Mary was impregnated through her ear and that other women as
well
 had used their ears as reproductive organs.  For that reason, an exposed
 female ear was considered no less an outrage than an exposed thigh, and a
 woman would not appear in public unless clad in a tight-fitting wimple.

 Felton, Bruce, and Mark Fowler. Part II, Behavior. The Best, Worst, and
 Most Unusual: Noteworthy Achievements, Events, Feats and Blunders of Every
 Conceivable Kind. New York: Galahad, 1994. 428. Print.

 So, the wimple had to develop for some reason.  Is this reason believable?
 Documentable?  Are there any other reasons that would be more legitimate
 based on available documentation?


 Laurie Taylor
 Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker#8203;'s dummy wearing today?

[Laurie Taylor]

Some of each?

Laurie
Phoenix

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Siobhan Sheehan
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:52 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker​'s dummy wearing today?

Mine, currently, and for months, has a green silk panniered gown on
it, minus all the furbelows.  I can't decide how to embellish
it--ruffles? lace? bows?

Siobhan
Dulles, VA
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Re: [h-cost] Techniques - sample suggestions? (long)

[Laurie Taylor]

Thank you Sharon, but our students mostly all take the Textiles class, so
I'm not concerned about that.  We're a Fashion Design program, and I'm
working on starting costume-related coursework because there are more
costume-shop jobs in the area than there are apparel production jobs.
Costume-specific sewing skills should be helpful for placing students in
internships and jobs in those costume shops.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Sharon Collier
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:42 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Techniques - sample suggestions? (long)

One thing I think would be a good idea would be a detailed description of
the different types of fabric. For example, what is the difference between
China silk and Shantung? And so forth.
Sharon C. 

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:21 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Techniques - sample suggestions? (long)

Good evening,

The semester is about to begin and I've suddenly realized that I need to
revise the sample requirements for my Costume Construction class.  We have
as our textbook, Rebecca Cunningham's Basic Sewing for Costume Construction
A Handbook. Long Grove: Waveland Press Inc, 2005.  It has a good section of
samples, but so many of those are covered in our regular apparel sewing
classes, that I don't have many left to require for this class.

Beyond Rebecca's sample list, I'm thinking of these:

Hand-worked eyelets
Cartridge pleating
Piped bindings - the piping/binding/facing combo often used on ballet
bodices

There have to be other options that I'm not remembering.  Anybody have any
suggestions?

Below, I'm including the list of samples required in the textbook.  Please,
if you reply to the list, delete that part for the sake of those who may be
getting this as a digest.

Thanks!

Laurie T.
Phoenix


1.  Hand stitches   
Gathering and Easing by Hand
Thread Marking two layers   
Backstitch  
Prick Stitch
Slip Stitch 
Slip Basting
Hemming Stitch  
Catch Stitch
Overcastting
Whipping Stitch 
Overhand Stitch 
Pad Stitch  
Buttonhole Stitch   

2. Fasteners
Button with patch or small button behind
Hooks - metal bars - note directional issue!
Hooks - thread loops
Hooks - metal loops 
Snaps   
Velcro - by hand
Hand-worked Eyelets 

3. Seams
Plain seam  
Plain seam - top stitched   
Plane seam - double top stitched
Eased seam  
Lapped seam 
Single lapped seam  
Flat-fell seam  
Welt seam   
French seam 
Mock French 
Corded seam 

4. Seam Finishes
Overcast edges  
Zigzagged edges 
Bound edges 
Bias tape - neckline
Corded edge 
French bias 

5.  Special Problems 
Corners 
Grading 
Clipping
Curved underarm seam with tape (p.93)   
Mitered Bindings - outside corner   
Mitered Bindings - inside corner

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[h-cost] Techniques - sample suggestions? (long)

[Laurie Taylor]

Good evening,

The semester is about to begin and I've suddenly realized that I need to
revise the sample requirements for my Costume Construction class.  We have
as our textbook, Rebecca Cunningham's Basic Sewing for Costume Construction
A Handbook. Long Grove: Waveland Press Inc, 2005.  It has a good section of
samples, but so many of those are covered in our regular apparel sewing
classes, that I don't have many left to require for this class.

Beyond Rebecca's sample list, I'm thinking of these:

Hand-worked eyelets
Cartridge pleating
Piped bindings - the piping/binding/facing combo often used on ballet
bodices

There have to be other options that I'm not remembering.  Anybody have any
suggestions?

Below, I'm including the list of samples required in the textbook.  Please,
if you reply to the list, delete that part for the sake of those who may be
getting this as a digest.

Thanks!

Laurie T.
Phoenix


1.  Hand stitches   
Gathering and Easing by Hand
Thread Marking two layers   
Backstitch  
Prick Stitch
Slip Stitch 
Slip Basting
Hemming Stitch  
Catch Stitch
Overcastting
Whipping Stitch 
Overhand Stitch 
Pad Stitch  
Buttonhole Stitch   

2. Fasteners
Button with patch or small button behind
Hooks - metal bars - note directional issue!
Hooks - thread loops
Hooks - metal loops 
Snaps   
Velcro - by hand
Hand-worked Eyelets 

3. Seams
Plain seam  
Plain seam - top stitched   
Plane seam - double top stitched
Eased seam  
Lapped seam 
Single lapped seam  
Flat-fell seam  
Welt seam   
French seam 
Mock French 
Corded seam 

4. Seam Finishes
Overcast edges  
Zigzagged edges 
Bound edges 
Bias tape - neckline
Corded edge 
French bias 

5.  Special Problems 
Corners 
Grading 
Clipping
Curved underarm seam with tape (p.93)   
Mitered Bindings - outside corner   
Mitered Bindings - inside corner

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[h-cost] Pattern system scales

[Laurie Taylor]

Hello,

Has anyone ever seen the pattern scales that were used with Thompson's
Universal System, by Mrs. F.E. Thompson?  I have scales for a couple of
other systems, but the scales were unique to each system and I cannot find
any for Thompson's anywhere.  I'd love to have copies of them as I want to
produce some of the patterns in her system and eventually to have a class on
using the period pattern systems.  There are no scales on costumes.org,
though Tara does have some of the Thompson's pages.  

Thanks!

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year

[Laurie Taylor]

Hmmm...starting with your last question, it would depend on how you are
working.  If you want the chain on the front as in chain stitch embroidery,
then yes, you'd turn the work over to make a knot on the back.  If you are
using tambour to apply beads, then you're probably working with the hook on
the back/top and the thread with beads on the front/bottom.  With the beads,
an occasional knot is really important.

I don't really do much chain stitch embroidery, definitely no large fill
areas of it, but I suspect that the faster of the two just depends on who is
doing it.  Again, practice and developing muscle memory will bring speed at
either one.  Getting a rhythm going is not necessarily easy at first, but
once you can find a rhythm, speed will come.  Tambour can be worked off of a
spool, so no needle threading necessary, which would save a little bit of
time.

Laurie


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Paul and Charlene
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:44 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year

Laurie,

Thanks for the tambour tips. I agree with you that it is very beautiful and
worth the effort to keep trying.

I had read that it was much faster than chain stitch embroidery and
therefore was very surprised to find that it was not an easy thing to learn.
Perhaps it is faster in that you don't have to rethread the needle as often.
It seems to work better using tightly twisted threads but I still keep
getting caught in tiny threads from the fabric.  Is not catching the
background fabric just part of the technique that takes time to perfect?

To prevent unraveling huge areas by accident, every few inches, tie a knot
on the back side.  

As I am new at this, I am guessing that you would have to turn the work over
and create a knot using the ball of thread?

Charlene Roberts

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Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year

[Laurie Taylor]

You can also make a tambour from some pieces of 1 x 2 lumber and 4 'C'
clamps, the kind that you can screw tighter. Every hardware store probably
has them, but this was the shortest link I could find to a picture.

http://www.wpclipart.com/tools/hand_tools/clamp/C_clamp_BW.png.html

This link has a video that shows such a frame in use, though the camera
never pulls back enough to see the frame.

http://fashionistafaceoff.com/wp/2011/04/tambour-beading/

Here's a slightly different frame than what I use.

http://www.dhub.org/object/9725,tambour+frame

And finally, if you have back issues of Threads magazine, here's the results
of a 'tambour' search on the Threads online index.  One of these articles
does have a picture of the type of frame that I use, cheap, easy and very,
very adjustable.

Headline, Author, Issue No., Month, Year, Page
An Inexpensive Tambour Hook, n/a, 44, DEC/JAN, 1993, 51
Tambour Beading, Jan Bryant, 44, DEC/JAN, 1993, 50
Tambour embroidery, Janet Else, 12, AUG/SEP, 1987, 6
Tambour hooks, Ellen J. Riggan, 20, DEC/JAN, 1989, 10
Tambour-hook sources, David Page Coffin, 17, JUN/JUL, 1988, 6


Laurie


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Leif og Bjarne Drews
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:53 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year

Hi Charlene,
The reason i say it almost killed me to make that dress is because i had so 
narrow a time frame to finnish it. I had to painstakely sit and embroider 
every single day, also even when i got home from my real job and i was 
tired, and i had to go shopping and make the dinner.
I had it exactly like you when i started to try and make tambour stitches 
and i was desperate because i could not do it either, but i continued and 
tryed and tryed and suddently i had the ritht twist to it.
You must have a tambour frame, lacis has it you can see mine here:
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/forsidebillede.htm
I also use my lacepillow table, wich is low and it fits excactly to my 
frame.
You can make manny wonderfull things with tambour embroidery, i found out 
you can combine tambour with shadow work, i am making a fichu to a 
reenacter. The fabric i used for the regency dress is a cotton voille and 
its  sheer and it helps that you can see trough the fabric as a beginner, 
its the same i use for the fichu.
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/tambourering.htm
I would say it took me about 10 days till i finally had the right twist to 
make tambour, you must remember i was desperate i had said yes to the 
projekt, so i had to!
And it is much speedyer when you learn.
Next time i am starting something new in tambour i want to try to embroider 
on tulle.

Bjarne

-Oprindelig meddelelse- 
From: Paul and Charlene
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:45 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] the tambour embroidered regency dress i made last year

Bjarne,

As always, your work is so amazing .

the tambour embroidered dress that almost killed me

I continue to struggle in my effort to learn to tambour.  I took a course 
but that did not seem to help. I thought it was supposed to be fast but I 
have not found it to be fast.  In fact, if I do manage to get a few stitches

done, I usually move the wrong way and they all unravel before my eyes.

How long did it take you to become so good at tambour?  Do you have any tips

for those of us struggling with this form of needlework?

Why do you say that it almost killed you?  Is it backbreaking leaning over 
the frame?

Charlene Roberts
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[h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

[Laurie Taylor]

Good evening,

Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really
don't need finished until Fall.  It's what I'm in the mood for though, so
here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly!

I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion
sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else...

He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat.  She is wearing a
Redingote gown.  That is all I have.

I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during
the lecture and again on one of the exams.  On that exam, we were shown the
image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment
and Key Accessory/Garment.  On my copy of the test, I got full credit for
Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown.
From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of
a man and a woman.

If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and
this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that
might fit this description.  It's not critical or urgent, but it will
probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL

Laurie T.

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Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

[Laurie Taylor]

Thank you Sharon.  Interesting but unfortunately that one won't work.  

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Sharon Collier
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:29 AM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

I found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the
pictures were taken from this book:
All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles
Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958  
Sharon C.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

Good evening,

Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really
don't need finished until Fall.  It's what I'm in the mood for though, so
here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly!

I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion
sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else...

He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat.  She is wearing a
Redingote gown.  That is all I have.

I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during
the lecture and again on one of the exams.  On that exam, we were shown the
image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment
and Key Accessory/Garment.  On my copy of the test, I got full credit for
Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown.
From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of
a man and a woman.

If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and
this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that
might fit this description.  It's not critical or urgent, but it will
probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL

Laurie T.

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Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

[Laurie Taylor]

I'll definitely check those out.  I woke up this morning wondering if my
message was even clear at all.  I always wonder when I type too late at
night.  I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT
trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago.  In truth, I could end
up looking at the original image and not recognizing it.  But any image of a
man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine.  So the
sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities.

Thank you!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

I have
?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the
new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of
the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your
quest in these.
kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com
Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM
To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did
a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the
pictures were taken from this book:
All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles
Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958
Sharon C.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
Good evening,
Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really
don't need finished until Fall.  It's what I'm in the mood for though, so
here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly!
I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion
sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else...
He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat.  She is wearing a
Redingote gown.  That is all I have.
I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during
the lecture and again on one of the exams.  On that exam, we were shown the
image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment
and Key Accessory/Garment.  On my copy of the test, I got full credit for
Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown.
From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of
a man and a woman.
If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and
this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that
might fit this description.  It's not critical or urgent, but it will
probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL
Laurie T.
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Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

[Laurie Taylor]

Wow!  That certainly fits the description!  The date of the image is right
at the very end of the Romantic period, depending on which period dating
system you follow, so I can use it.  The description that accompanies the
image, on the Wikimedia Commons site, does not use the terms tailcoat or
redingote, but then Wikipedia and it's off-shoots are not considered the
most accurate of sources.

Thank you for finding this one.  I am curious as to how you found it as I
could not use the rpmedia.ask.com site.  Maybe the site is down.  Anyway,
for the sheer delight of looking at other images, I'll probably look some
more, but it is nice to know that I've got an image that can work!

Laurie


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Beteena Paradise
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:42 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

How about this one?

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Lovers-Morning-Rec
reation-Sarony-Major-1850.jpg/85px-Lovers-Morning-Recreation-Sarony-Major-18
50.jpg



 




From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 3:22:33 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

I'll definitely check those out.  I woke up this morning wondering if my
message was even clear at all.  I always wonder when I type too late at
night.  I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT
trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago.  In truth, I could end
up looking at the original image and not recognizing it.  But any image of a
man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine.  So the
sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities.

Thank you!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

I have
?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the
new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of
the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your
quest in these.
kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com
Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM
To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did
a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the
pictures were taken from this book:
All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles
Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958
Sharon C.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
Good evening,
Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really
don't need finished until Fall.  It's what I'm in the mood for though, so
here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly!
I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion
sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else...
He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat.  She is wearing a
Redingote gown.  That is all I have.
I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during
the lecture and again on one of the exams.  On that exam, we were shown the
image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment
and Key Accessory/Garment.  On my copy of the test, I got full credit for
Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown.
From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of
a man and a woman.
If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and
this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that
might fit this description.  It's not critical or urgent, but it will
probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL
Laurie T.
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Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

[Laurie Taylor]

I agree - I love the google images filter too.  The only down side to it is
that it enables my spending hours and hours, browsing and drooling.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Beteena Paradise
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:10 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

I put 1830s redingote tailcoat into google and then only looked at the
images 
page. It was about 6 pages in.  I love the google images filter. It has come

through for me on so many projects!





From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 4:04:28 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

Wow!  That certainly fits the description!  The date of the image is right
at the very end of the Romantic period, depending on which period dating
system you follow, so I can use it.  The description that accompanies the
image, on the Wikimedia Commons site, does not use the terms tailcoat or
redingote, but then Wikipedia and it's off-shoots are not considered the
most accurate of sources.

Thank you for finding this one.  I am curious as to how you found it as I
could not use the rpmedia.ask.com site.  Maybe the site is down.  Anyway,
for the sheer delight of looking at other images, I'll probably look some
more, but it is nice to know that I've got an image that can work!

Laurie


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Beteena Paradise
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:42 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

How about this one?

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Lovers-Morning-Rec
reation-Sarony-Major-1850.jpg/85px-Lovers-Morning-Recreation-Sarony-Major-18
50.jpg



 




From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 3:22:33 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

I'll definitely check those out.  I woke up this morning wondering if my
message was even clear at all.  I always wonder when I type too late at
night.  I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT
trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago.  In truth, I could end
up looking at the original image and not recognizing it.  But any image of a
man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine.  So the
sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities.

Thank you!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period

I have
?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the
new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of
the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your
quest in these.
kathleen?
-Original Message-
From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com
Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM
To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did
a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the
pictures were taken from this book:
All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles
Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958
Sharon C.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
Good evening,
Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really
don't need finished until Fall.  It's what I'm in the mood for though, so
here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly!
I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion
sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else...
He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat.  She is wearing a
Redingote gown.  That is all I have.
I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during
the lecture and again on one of the exams.  On that exam, we were shown the
image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment
and Key Accessory/Garment.  On my copy of the test, I got full credit for
Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown.
From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of
a man and a woman.
If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and
this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that
might fit this description.  It's not critical or urgent

Re: [h-cost] Pros Cons of Gores in Corsets

[Laurie Taylor]

Period accuracy considerations aside for the moment, gores will give you
more control over the grain of the additional fabric.  Adding more and more
flare to the side of a panel does result in a lot of bias, which may not be
a bad thing.  But gores let you decide, to a greater extent, how much bias
you want or can accept.  Not ground-shaking information, but a basic part of
life with fabric.

And really, even in a corset with gores, the panels are not perfect
rectangles.  There is some shape built in, just not necessarily enough for
the intended wearer.  Most 'gored' corsets are probably a bit of a
combination of some flare on a panel and gores for more flare.


Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of michaeljdeib...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 3:17 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Pros  Cons of Gores in Corsets

Sharon, 
I personally Believe that there is no wrong question, but I can't vouch for
everyone.

I too am interested in what everyone's opinions and theories are regarding
gores in corsets. I believe someone already mentioned that gores went out of
fashion when things became industrialized due to the fact it was more time
consuming. 

While a lot can be done with the seam lines of a non-gored corset, I see
major advantages if the corset is made for a large busted or large hipped
woman. The amount of flare that would  need to be added can quickly become
too large to provide the same level of support. Plus, if you use a gore, you
have less fabric waste in lying out the pattern. 

I'm sure there are other reasons, other theories, and probably some facts
that haven't been brought up yet. 

So what are you views on this topic?

Michael Deibert
OAS AAS LLS
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2011, at 15:10, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote:

 I'm showing my ignorance here, but I want to learn so...
 Why use gores at all? Why not just incorporate that extra bit into the
main
 panel of the corset, as an extra flared bit on the end?
 Sharon C. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
 Behalf Of albert...@aol.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:37 AM
 To: h-cost...@indra.com
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
 
 
 
 I am  specifically 
 hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust 
 gores. 
 
 One of my fave corset patterns of all time is Past Pattern's # 708 1845
 -1860. 
 http://www.pastpatterns.com/708.html
 
 
 
 I find it works for 1820's to early 1870's The pattern is lightly boned
but
 I have added bones between the bones on the pattern and one could add
more.
 The shape is divine!
 
 
 After the late 1860's, early 1870's you'll need another more rigid shape.
A
 pattern like Past Pattern's #213.
 http://www.pastpatterns.com/213.html
 
 
 These should do until you come to the straight front corset of the early
 1900's. This is where Past Patterns and I part ways. DO NOT GET their
 pattern #106
 http://www.pastpatterns.com/106.html
 
 
 It is NOT what is illustrated on the front and the patter requires so much
 tweaking that you might as well start from scratch. Hate it!
 
 
 
 
 - 
 
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[h-cost] Book suggestions?

[Laurie Taylor]

What would you suggest as a follow-up to Women's Work: The First 20,000
Years: Women, Cloth, and Society in Early Times by Elizabeth Wayland Barber?

Laurie T.

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[h-cost] This Group and costume and ....

[Laurie Taylor]

Good evening,

Ultimately, it all comes down to taking fabric and turning it into something
wonderful, doesn't it?  It does not matter if it is modern fashion or
historic costume, be it museum quality replica or something to wear by a
re-enactment campfire.  I had thought that first line would have been the
last line, but there you have it.  We are all here because fabric, reshaped
into something to be worn long ago or now, is the core of our common
interest.

In truth, I am sure that our backgrounds are tremendously diverse.  Some of
us do have backgrounds or current employment in the ready-to-wear industry.
Some are theatrical costumers, some historic costumers.  Some are just
interested in the history, some just interested in the costume, be the
interest professional or amateur.  It is still all about that fabric and
what it became or what it will become.

I make clothing for myself - mundane, ordinary clothing, though not
necessarily ordinary compared to RTW. 

I've made clothing for clients, though I am my own favorite client.

I've worked in factories where the monthly numbers of garments produced were
almost beyond my comprehension.

I make costumes, sometimes professionally - like, say, 26 white bodices
trimmed in silver for the Snow Corps of The Nutcracker.  I was at least
smart enough to go out of town when it came time to sew on the 18 hooks/bars
pieces to each of those bodices!  big chuckle

I make costumes for me - a big surprise to me, still.  I have known of our
particular re-enactment group for years, but only recently got actively
involved.  It is fun.

I teach Costume History.  I love teaching it because I love what I know of
it and I love every new bit of knowledge that I acquire in this area.  I
love sharing what I know and what other people know.

I have a goal to be able to go to the lectures of the live version of my
class, dressed for that week or chapter's period...and I am actually
starting to see that goal become reality.  It is not happening fast, but it
is happening.  

And still, it all comes down to a piece of fabric, shaped and worn, long ago
or now...after all, the clothing of now is the historic costume of the
futurenow THAT's a really scary thought!  Hehehehehe

A question of textbooks brought to light the issues that we all face in
trying to meet our goals in a world where diverse interests are sometimes
forced to meet in a small space - a classroom.  Sometimes people with
diverse interests have to make do with whatever is available locally, in
order to scrounge additional learning opportunities for their own interests.
Determining curriculum and course content is a challenge when too few
classes and classrooms must try to meet the needs of to many differing
individuals.  Welcome to the challenge of teaching in our modern world.

I love this group.  It is one of my two top choices when I need direction to
new information or guidance in my costume decision-making process, or in my
course development process.  There is enough diverse background here that I
can be sure someone will offer an insight that will help me go in the
direction in which I need to proceed, so thank heavens for the apparel
production backgrounds and the costume history backgrounds and all the rest
of what you all bring to this group.

That's all.

Laurie

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[h-cost] (no subject)

[Laurie Taylor]

What I'd really like to know is how did Robert Heinlein make all the extra
room in the car?  But I'll settle for asking how do you all store your hoop
skirts or hoped petticoats or what ever term you prefer?  

What can be safely done to them to minimize the space that they require?  

And if you've read Heinlein and know the answer to that question, I'm
waiting

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] History of Costume text?

[Laurie Taylor]

Regarding this quote, 

[On a side note, history of costume would be of little help to a fashion
design major - unless it covers the history of modern fashion or period
fashion is become a mainstream revival without my knowledge.]

I disagree completely and must say so.  Inspiration for new fashion designs
comes from more than just the last century, from much more than just modern
fashion.  Designers look everywhere for their inspiration.  Historic costume
is one of the most valuable resources that any modern fashion designer can
have.  Fashion design majors need to study historic costume, both for
inspiration and to understand where fashion came from.  That 'history of
costume would be of little help to a fashion design major' is just not
right.

I'm really, truly not out to start a fight here.  I teach History of
Costume.  I also teach or have taught almost every class in one of those
Fashion Design programs.  I'm working to get more costume-oriented classes
into our overall curriculum, to build up our Costume Construction
certificate and to help open up job options for students in an area where
there are several theater costume shops, but almost no apparel production.

I'd like to suggest that taking some Costume History courses might surprise
you.  One of my major assignments, which happens every week of the course,
has my students looking at modern fashion for details and elements that have
their roots in historic apparel, all the way from ancient Egypt to the 20th
century.  It's truly wonderful to see how their perspective on fashion and
the whole industry changes and grows.

It seems like this is turning into a battle between the Fashion Design
program people and the Historic Costume people.  It shouldn't.  We're all
very much part of the same wonderful world of apparel and textiles...old and
new.  Don't you just love it?

Laurie T.
Phoenix


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Re: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

[Laurie Taylor]

Oh my, I laughed so hard at the idea of there ever being re-enactment groups
for the era of my childhood!  I'm having trouble coping with the idea of the
70's, 80's and 90's being 'vintage' and collectible.  Still, I wish I had
hung on to some pieces from back then.  

And if we can re-enact the Middle Ages or the Civil War, well...why not?

Laurie T.

Phoenix

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Land of Oz
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:39 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

but soon to be!

I recently found a book called The Illustrated Hassle-free Make Your Own 
Clothes Book by Rosonberg and Weiner published by Bantam.

I ordered it sight-unseen, so it's not exactly what I thought it was going 
to be, but it's proven to be an interesting glimpse into the recent past of 
clothing/costuming. It was published in 1971 and the introduction is full of

hippie phrasing like my old man groovy fairly heavy cat funkiness 
up-tightness and even the f-bomb.

I read the introduction aloud to my mother (who was a 31 year old 
tailor/seamstress in 1971 but definitely in the Channel and Pearls camp 
rather than the counter-culture group) and we both thought it was hilarious.

 We both noted that in just a few more decades most people won't be able to 
correctly interpret such phrases as he was a fairly heavy cat  lol!  My 
mother also reminded me of several older-than-me friends of the family I had

admired growing up who were into making mu'umu'u from flowered bed sheets, 
and using wildly contrasting fabric to insert large wedges into the pant's 
legs of their jeans. (I was, of course, forbidden to do any such thing!)

Will there someday be reinactment groups for the late 60s to 70s?  :-)  This

book may prove to be a valuable reference!

Denise B
Iowa
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Re: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

[Laurie Taylor]

Oh my yes!  I'd hang on to anything crocheted like that.  Just love crochet
I guess.  Actually, they'd probably be cute over leggings or a slip
dress...could easily be worn today for some people!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Ginni Morgan
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 2:22 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

Oh dear!  I guess I should hang onto those crocheted minidresses from my
high school  college years, then.  They just might be worth something
someday soon.

Ginni
Sacramento, CA
ECHS '68

 Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com 2/14/11 1:13 PM 
Oh my, I laughed so hard at the idea of there ever being re-enactment groups
for the era of my childhood!  I'm having trouble coping with the idea of the
70's, 80's and 90's being 'vintage' and collectible.  Still, I wish I had
hung on to some pieces from back then.  

And if we can re-enact the Middle Ages or the Civil War, well...why not?

Laurie T.

Phoenix

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Land of Oz
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:39 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

but soon to be!

I recently found a book called The Illustrated Hassle-free Make Your Own 
Clothes Book by Rosonberg and Weiner published by Bantam.

I ordered it sight-unseen, so it's not exactly what I thought it was going 
to be, but it's proven to be an interesting glimpse into the recent past of 
clothing/costuming. It was published in 1971 and the introduction is full of

hippie phrasing like my old man groovy fairly heavy cat funkiness 
up-tightness and even the f-bomb.

I read the introduction aloud to my mother (who was a 31 year old 
tailor/seamstress in 1971 but definitely in the Channel and Pearls camp 
rather than the counter-culture group) and we both thought it was hilarious.

 We both noted that in just a few more decades most people won't be able to 
correctly interpret such phrases as he was a fairly heavy cat  lol!  My 
mother also reminded me of several older-than-me friends of the family I had

admired growing up who were into making mu'umu'u from flowered bed sheets, 
and using wildly contrasting fabric to insert large wedges into the pant's 
legs of their jeans. (I was, of course, forbidden to do any such thing!)

Will there someday be reinactment groups for the late 60s to 70s?  :-)  This

book may prove to be a valuable reference!

Denise B
Iowa
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Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern-11th-12thCentury

[Laurie Taylor]

Good evening Saragrace,

Thanks for that particular thought, though I've seen front gores on a lot of
diagrams for various garments.

Actually, the La Fleur pattern is split gores at all locations, front, back
 sides.  Interesting pattern...similar to many of the others out there,
both commercial and otherwise, and yet it has its differences.  My first
gown from it is just about done - just hand-stitching the trim.

And that trim is largely your doing Sg!  Since Southern, I've been always
watching out for lightweight fabrics that seemed likely candidates for
trimming simple gowns, like you have done on some of yours.  What a
difference, from plain, untrimmed gowns to nicely trimmed gowns, without the
time requirement for embroidery or any other technique...I may actually have
garb for Estrella!

The studio had gotten so bad - clippings and threads everywhere - I had to
vacuum this afternoon, in order to be able to continue sewing.  Made for a
nice regrouping session in the midst of this garb-building festival!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Wicked Frau
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:30 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse
pattern-11th-12thCentury

Just a note, Dame Angele taught me that putting a gore in the front can
cause problems.   It can catch between your legs when walking.  In the end
all you need is fullness, so perhaps consider cutting only three gores and
putting them on the sides and back.

Sg

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Laurie Taylor
costume...@mazarineblue.comwrote:

 Oops...meant to say 'indecisive'!


 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
 Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
 Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 9:11 PM
 To: 'Historical Costume'
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern
 -11th-12thCentury

 Thank you so much!  That really helps.  Just having someone else's
thoughts
 helps when I'm feeling so decisive, but the Greenland gowns thought is
 right
 on track...and just what I need.

 Nothing like trying to sew garb for an event with a deadline to chase away
 all thoughts of all the many things that I've seen and read!

 laurie

 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
 Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com
 Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:53 PM
 To: Historical Costume
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -
 11th-12thCentury

 Hi Laurie,

 I haven't made this pattern, and unfortunately it's not in my collection
to
 refer to. Based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of clothing from that
 time,
 however, I think your first assumption is correct: the long gores go into
 the
 side seams, the short gores into CF and CB. I seem to recall some of the
 Greenland gowns where made that way.



 Claudine



 - Original Message 
  From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com
  To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
  Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 7:43:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -
 11th-12th
 Century
 
  I've been looking at this pattern some more, and I still can't decide
 what
  the instructions mean.
 
  There are 4 body panels - two fronts, two  backs.  It has side seams and
  seams up center front and center  back.
 
  There are 2 sets of gores.  One longer - to well above the  waist, or
 about 4
  inches below the armscye, and one shorter, to about waist  level.  I'm
  viewing them as from the hem up as the notches seem to work  that way.
 
  The instructions and the notches seem rather vague.  I'm  thinking that
  probably the pairs of short gores go front/back and the long  gores go
to
 the
  side seams - or vice versa - long gores front/back and short  gores to
 the
  side seams.  There may be something that I'm missing, but I  can't
figure
 it
  out.
 
  If anyone has used this pattern, I'd love to talk  to you!
 
  Laurie T.
 
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[h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern

[Laurie Taylor]

Good evening,

I'm cutting my second project from the La Fleur de Lyse pattern, Women of
Medieval Romanesque Period.  My first project was the 1150 Lady's bliaut,
which turned out ok, if a little large.

My problem is that I'm trying to cut the chainse and cotte and am cutting
the large instead of the extra-large.  The pattern pieces for the gores are
confusing me.  Has anyone made these garments from this pattern?  Were you
able to make sense out of the gores for the size large, for the chainse or
cotte?

I'd sure appreciate any thoughts that anyone might care to share.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern - 11th-12th Century

[Laurie Taylor]

I've been looking at this pattern some more, and I still can't decide what
the instructions mean.

There are 4 body panels - two fronts, two backs.  It has side seams and
seams up center front and center back.

There are 2 sets of gores.  One longer - to well above the waist, or about 4
inches below the armscye, and one shorter, to about waist level.  I'm
viewing them as from the hem up as the notches seem to work that way.

The instructions and the notches seem rather vague.  I'm thinking that
probably the pairs of short gores go front/back and the long gores go to the
side seams - or vice versa - long gores front/back and short gores to the
side seams.  There may be something that I'm missing, but I can't figure it
out.

If anyone has used this pattern, I'd love to talk to you!

Laurie T. 



-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:43 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern

Good evening,

I'm cutting my second project from the La Fleur de Lyse pattern, Women of
Medieval Romanesque Period.  My first project was the 1150 Lady's bliaut,
which turned out ok, if a little large.

My problem is that I'm trying to cut the chainse and cotte and am cutting
the large instead of the extra-large.  The pattern pieces for the gores are
confusing me.  Has anyone made these garments from this pattern?  Were you
able to make sense out of the gores for the size large, for the chainse or
cotte?

I'd sure appreciate any thoughts that anyone might care to share.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern - 11th-12thCentury

[Laurie Taylor]

Thank you so much!  That really helps.  Just having someone else's thoughts
helps when I'm feeling so decisive, but the Greenland gowns thought is right
on track...and just what I need.

Nothing like trying to sew garb for an event with a deadline to chase away
all thoughts of all the many things that I've seen and read!

laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:53 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -
11th-12thCentury

Hi Laurie,

I haven't made this pattern, and unfortunately it's not in my collection to 
refer to. Based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of clothing from that
time, 
however, I think your first assumption is correct: the long gores go into
the 
side seams, the short gores into CF and CB. I seem to recall some of the 
Greenland gowns where made that way.



Claudine



- Original Message 
 From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 7:43:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -
11th-12th 
Century
 
 I've been looking at this pattern some more, and I still can't decide
what
 the instructions mean.
 
 There are 4 body panels - two fronts, two  backs.  It has side seams and
 seams up center front and center  back.
 
 There are 2 sets of gores.  One longer - to well above the  waist, or
about 4
 inches below the armscye, and one shorter, to about waist  level.  I'm
 viewing them as from the hem up as the notches seem to work  that way.
 
 The instructions and the notches seem rather vague.  I'm  thinking that
 probably the pairs of short gores go front/back and the long  gores go to
the
 side seams - or vice versa - long gores front/back and short  gores to the
 side seams.  There may be something that I'm missing, but I  can't figure
it
 out.
 
 If anyone has used this pattern, I'd love to talk  to you!
 
 Laurie T. 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -11th-12thCentury

[Laurie Taylor]

Oops...meant to say 'indecisive'!


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 9:11 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern
-11th-12thCentury

Thank you so much!  That really helps.  Just having someone else's thoughts
helps when I'm feeling so decisive, but the Greenland gowns thought is right
on track...and just what I need.

Nothing like trying to sew garb for an event with a deadline to chase away
all thoughts of all the many things that I've seen and read!

laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:53 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -
11th-12thCentury

Hi Laurie,

I haven't made this pattern, and unfortunately it's not in my collection to 
refer to. Based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of clothing from that
time, 
however, I think your first assumption is correct: the long gores go into
the 
side seams, the short gores into CF and CB. I seem to recall some of the 
Greenland gowns where made that way.



Claudine



- Original Message 
 From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 7:43:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seeking help with La Fleur de Lyse pattern -
11th-12th 
Century
 
 I've been looking at this pattern some more, and I still can't decide
what
 the instructions mean.
 
 There are 4 body panels - two fronts, two  backs.  It has side seams and
 seams up center front and center  back.
 
 There are 2 sets of gores.  One longer - to well above the  waist, or
about 4
 inches below the armscye, and one shorter, to about waist  level.  I'm
 viewing them as from the hem up as the notches seem to work  that way.
 
 The instructions and the notches seem rather vague.  I'm  thinking that
 probably the pairs of short gores go front/back and the long  gores go to
the
 side seams - or vice versa - long gores front/back and short  gores to the
 side seams.  There may be something that I'm missing, but I  can't figure
it
 out.
 
 If anyone has used this pattern, I'd love to talk  to you!
 
 Laurie T. 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...

[Laurie Taylor]

Thank you Heather.  Logically, that's about what I expected, but I just have
no references here to confirm that.  I've cut one cloak and it's lining but
will have to work on it after an SCA event this weekend.  Anxious to get it
finished!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 8:06 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hill  Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...


On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Laurie Taylor wrote:

 I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this list and an SCA garb
 list, so I hoped for more ideas between the two.
 
 I am cutting a cloak, the half-circle style as shown in Hill  Bucknell,
The
 Evolution of Fashion 1066-1930, c.1100 male/female.  I opted for this one
 because it fit well on my fabric without piecing.  The fabric is a very
dark
 charcoal, almost black, woolen-like, though probably acrylic.  It’s what I
 had on hand so, even if the color isn’t period, it’s going to happen.

snip

 Also, quite a few of the cloaks of c.1066-1260 or thereabouts are greater
 than ½ circle and harder to fit on fabric without piecing.  I did the math
 to enlarge one particular pattern, and it would need a piece of fabric
 around 105” x 120” approximately.  How would you piece that, or how might
it
 have been pieced in period, assuming that they didn’t just weave a fabric
to
 a dimension suitable for that garment?

Looking at surviving examples of medieval half-circular cloaks, where the
cut is discernable from the available publications, pretty much all of them
are pieced to some degree.  (This isn't surprising when you compare the
style to the typical fabric widths in use in the medieval period.)  Most
often, the basic shape is formed by sewing together strips parallel with the
straight edge of the half-circle, but very often the area farthest from that
straight edge is further pieced in order to use up the bits cut off for the
curved edges of the strip next to it.

Heather
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Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...

[Laurie Taylor]

Thank you Marjorie.  You made some good points about the slippery issue with
linings.  Actually the first lining that I have cut is not at all slippery,
simply because I was trying to find something linen or linen-like in a
decent color.  What I found is definitely not slippery, as linen would not
be either.

As for the edge finishes, the gray cloak fabric could do quite well without
a seamed edge, though the lining will have to be turned inwards and stitched
around, as it would fray.  I've been looking at some of the information on
period stitches and edge-finishes, online of course, and think I know how
this one will get finished.

I did figure that piecing would be period, but just wasn't entirely sure
where to piece on this first cloak.  I ended up settling for a 1/2 circle
since it would fit on my fabric without piecing.  Next one I will make a
point to piece, at least enough to cut a 5/8 or 3/4 circle.

I am thoroughly modern when it comes to garment maintenance.  My labor is
worth something, at least to me, so my dry-cleaners help me to preserve the
fruits of my labor - no beating clothes on a rock by a stream for this city
girl.

Laurie T.



-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:00 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hill  Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...

Had you considered that piecing is in fact period? There are many,  
many examples of piecing throughout the centuries. I'd suggest the  
best approach might be to see how wide the typical fabric _of_the_day_  
(or area!) might be, and piece even if you don't need to! :)

As far as lining. Kayta once told me that you absolutely do not want a  
slippery lining over your shoulders-- unless you want to fight holding  
the cape in place. She used cotton lining in the shoulder area, and,  
should satin be called for, satin in the rest.

However, I am not so familiar with the 1100s. My impression, however,  
is that woolens were often NOT hemmed or lined, because they were  
quite thick and rather fulled. A simple line of stitching around the  
(non) hem would keep them tidy. Same with slashings  dags.

The reason that later period clothing was often brushed and spot- 
cleaned was that washing an entire garment was't the usual treatment.  
I can see the reasoning: so often washing was boiling and beating,  
which would full (and shrink) the cloth. I wonder if the same were  
true in the 12th century.

 == Marjorie Wilser (who has bought the very last of a t-shirt  
knit and even pieced the shirt! Yep. loved it that much)
om/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...

[Laurie Taylor]

Thanks for the thought Glenda.  I'm not likely to see snow
anytimeever...but rain is a possibility and staying dry is really nice!
I may have to try that on another one.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Glenda Robinson
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 7:44 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hill  Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...

Hi Laurie,

I've used a woollen lining for a cloak I take with me to the winter
(sometimes snow) camps. It's been brilliant. I find that when water gets
through the outer wool layer on a cloak, it wicks through a linen lining
quite quickly, but the woollen lining gives a bit more protection.

Have fun!

Glenda.


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Friday, 12 November 2010 1:43 AM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Hill  Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...

I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this list and an SCA garb
list, so I hoped for more ideas between the two.

I am cutting a cloak, the half-circle style as shown in Hill  Bucknell, The
Evolution of Fashion 1066-1930, c.1100 male/female.  I opted for this one
because it fit well on my fabric without piecing.  The fabric is a very dark
charcoal, almost black, woolen-like, though probably acrylic.  It’s what I
had on hand so, even if the color isn’t period, it’s going to happen.

I’m stuck on lining.  I’m guessing that it should be a linen, though I was
eye-balling a super-fine 130 wool from my stash.  The color isn’t good
though, I suppose – being a blue-gray, almost faded teal, but it sure feels
nice.

What would be a good color, keeping maybe sort of period?  I’m not wanting
to go buying more fabric – I own too darn much!  But I’m not sure that I’ve
got anything in a good color/fiber combination.

Also, quite a few of the cloaks of c.1066-1260 or thereabouts are greater
than ½ circle and harder to fit on fabric without piecing.  I did the math
to enlarge one particular pattern, and it would need a piece of fabric
around 105” x 120” approximately.  How would you piece that, or how might it
have been pieced in period, assuming that they didn’t just weave a fabric to
a dimension suitable for that garment?

Wide open to thoughts and ideas!

Laurie T.





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Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

That's interesting.  Hadn't thought about sacking of any sort, but that
would fit.  However, the original shirt that the kid loves was manufactured
by someone purchasing large quantities, probably at wholesale.  There were a
lot of pieces made of this fabric at the vendor's booth.  If I found the
vendor, I'd be tempted to buy him another shirt, just because I know he'd
like and wear it.  However, I really don't want to spend over $50 for a
shirt if I can help it.

I'll have to try some new googles, based on sacking - see what comes up.

Thanks for the hint.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of AVCHASE
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:48 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking.
Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy 

in the high boonies of Central Texas


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Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Hmmm...no luck with Google for 'The DEVA co.'.  Any suggestions?

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

The DEVA co., (W) uses a contemporary version of 100% cotton?feed-sack for
some of their shirts. There are at least 3 styles that are usable for
re-inactors of the 18th and 19th time periods...especially if one has to
wear such for every day events. I have used them for years...especially for
theater...good looking but rugged.
Kathleen M?
-Original Message-
From: AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com
Sent 10/18/2010 10:48:13 AM
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hi,
that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking.
Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy
in the high boonies of Central Texas

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

In truth, I am almost completely confounded as to how to describe this
fabric.  It is interesting, maybe even yummy.  I would not call it a crinkle
at all, as it's not like any of the crinkles that I've ever seen.

Yes, I may just go back to the neighborhood big-box fabric store and get
some more of a quite decent linen that I found there.  It softened up quite
a bit, even after only a wash or two.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:25 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

Hi Laurie,

If you bought the original shirt from a vendor, and from I recall of
RenFaire 
vendors, it's probably cotton gauze (is it crinkly?)

I suggest just using a lightweight linen. It'll be similar in texture, and
very 
nice to wear. 


I loves me linen shirts, shifts, smocks, pants, skirts, dresses, etc.




Claudine



- Original Message 
 From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 12:40:55 PM
 Subject: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
 
 Hello, me again.
 
 For that same shirt project, now that I have woken up  and recognized the
 many resources already present in my studio, I'm hung up  on fabric.
Well,
 not really hung up as I can certainly use 100% linen  and end up with a
 reasonably period shirt.  But the shirt that he  already has is 100%
cotton -
 I know - not period - but very comfy and again,  he likes it.
 
 The fabric strikes me as rather unusual.  It's an  off-white - very creamy
-
 but it's almost like a crepe - a cotton  crepe.  Online searching for 100%
 cotton crepes has yielded very  little.  Fashion Fabrics Club does have a
tan
 cotton/linen crepe and a  purple 100% cotton crepe, but that's all I've
 found.
 
 I may be wrong  about the existing shirt being of a crepe, but that's the
 closest I can  guess, even handling it directly.  It reminds me of cotton
(or
 maybe  linen) dish towels, reasonably finely woven but very soft.  It's
very
 much different from any weight/weave of linen that I've found  anywhere.
 
 Any thoughts?
 
 Laurie T.
 
 -Original  Message-
snipped

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Yes, Dharma is always an interesting option.  I'll check them out.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of otsisto
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:54 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

Perhaps you can get swashes for Dharma
http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1667492-AA.shtml


De

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Kathleen, when it comes to teenagers, your 'take on reality' is exactly like
mine.  First, get him hooked, then teach him about period authenticity.

I just got of the phone with Deva.  The pictures on the website didn't
really tell me anything, but the descriptions sounded interesting and they
are sending me a swatch set.  Got my fingers crossed!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:57 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

devalifewear.com should do the trick. If you call them, they have several
fabrics they use in their designs.? Ask for a sample of what is
available...if the weight and weave is crucial. One of them is Devacloth
which does have some 'crinkle'..but it 'reads' for the uniniated as
un-ironed linen.? In following the thread, I take it that the design and
appearance is more important than authenticity. If he gets 'hooked' with
roleplaying life, you can upgrade the shirt to a closer period piece.
My take on reality...
Kathleen M
-Original Message-
From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com
Sent 10/18/2010 1:10:14 PM
To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period -
pre-1600Hmmm...no luck with Google for 'The DEVA co.'.  Any suggestions?
Laurie T.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
The DEVA co., (W) uses a contemporary version of 100% cotton?feed-sack for
some of their shirts. There are at least 3 styles that are usable for
re-inactors of the 18th and 19th time periods...especially if one has to
wear such for every day events. I have used them for years...especially for
theater...good looking but rugged.
Kathleen M?
-Original Message-
From: AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com
Sent 10/18/2010 10:48:13 AM
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hi,
that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking.
Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy
in the high boonies of Central Texas

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Hey, thanks for the Dharma links.  I always get in trouble with Dharma - my
boxes always contain more than what I intended to order!  Must behave myself
today, darn it!

I know that the voiles will be way too light for this project, but it's so
nice to see a cotton voile available for something substantially less than
the $20+ that it costs to get it from Europe.  For underlinings and
interfacings, it doesn't need to be fancy, just basic cotton voile.  I don't
think I've ever seen Rayon voile before - cool.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of otsisto
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:03 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

Pics:
Cotton bubble gauze (or as i call it pain in the arse to sew fabric)
http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3479-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html

http://tinyurl.com/2eoarrh

Cotton voile
http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3501-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html

http://tinyurl.com/23awt58

Silky cotton voile
http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/4521523-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.ht
ml

http://tinyurl.com/28zqcvo



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Re: [h-cost] Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Oh, foolish me.  I have the Tudor Tailor.  Why don't I think of it when I'm
dealing with questions like this one?

Perfect solution - draft it out of TT.

Thanks!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Sharon Collier
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 1:20 AM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

Actually, the first shirt of B 4486 (the collarless one)is really close to a
late 1500's shirt/chemise. Just remove the gathers at the top of the sleeves
and add a straight collar (rectangular piece of cloth.) You may want to
remove some of the fullness at the cuffs also, it's hard to tell from the
picture. And don't do the eyelets and cross lacing. Just leave the slit open
and tie closed at the collar with one or 2 ties (depending on the
width/height of the collar) If you have The Tudor Tailor, there are great
patterns in there. If he wants the ruffled look, do box pleating instead, on
the collar and cuffs.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 8:41 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

Oh goody - I get to make a shirt for a teenage boy - a fully adult-sized
teenage boy with really limited and specific tastes in clothes.  He has a
shirt, acquired from a vendor at an SCA event, that he loves and that looks
really great on him.  His shirt is not really period for SCA but he likes
it, so what's a mom to do?  I'm hoping to make him something that he'll like
as well as that one, without the event price-tag and maybe a little bit more
period.

Butterick 4486 looks a LOT like his shirt, and would be even closer if I
just add a simple collar - no problem.  But I'm pretty sure it's not period
- not close for anything any earlier than maybe Victorian?  Likewise,
Simplicity 3758 is probably only somewhat close to the 1800s and not
pre-1600.

So what would be a good shirt pattern, commercial or drafted by me, for a
shirt that will appeal to a teenager in the way that the commercial patterns
mentioned above would, but would still be a little bit closer to pre-1600?

He has a lovely Bocksten-style tunic which, so far, he has shown no interest
in wearing.  I would have loved to outfitted him in Viking, but he seems to
prefer something in a later period.  I am planning on making him a lovely
chocolate brown, cotton velveteen doublet, but that's not at the top of the
costume to-do list right now.

Ok, so I'm only asking the impossible - that's life with teens!

Laurie T.

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Re: [h-cost] Sheer linen

[Laurie Taylor]

Yes, they are in New York, but they do not sell retail to the consumer via
their web site.  They have a store locator which searches by your state and
zip code.  Unfortunately, the store near me only sells the linen household
goods, not fabrics by the yard.  Sad.  If anyone figures out how to get
their fabrics online, I'd love to hear about it.

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Sharon Collier
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 1:17 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sheer linen

In spite of the name, the Ulster Linen Company is in New York. 

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 8:52 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sheer linen

On 10/16/2010 9:58 AM, Wicked Frau wrote:
 This company sells it:  http://www.ulsterlinen.com/  Very nice stuff.

 So does this one:  http://www.libecohomestores.com/index_en.htm

 http://www.libecohomestores.com/index_en.htmThey used to be known as 
 Linen House.


That's some nice stuff.  Is there a place in the states that sells a sheer
linen?  I *finally* got my fabric swatches from fabric-store.com, and
they're all heavier than I want for that.

jerusha
--
Susan Farmer
sfar...@goldsword.com
Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
Division of Science and Math
http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
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[h-cost] Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Laurie Taylor]

Oh goody - I get to make a shirt for a teenage boy - a fully adult-sized
teenage boy with really limited and specific tastes in clothes.  He has a
shirt, acquired from a vendor at an SCA event, that he loves and that looks
really great on him.  His shirt is not really period for SCA but he likes
it, so what's a mom to do?  I'm hoping to make him something that he'll like
as well as that one, without the event price-tag and maybe a little bit more
period.

Butterick 4486 looks a LOT like his shirt, and would be even closer if I
just add a simple collar - no problem.  But I'm pretty sure it's not period
- not close for anything any earlier than maybe Victorian?  Likewise,
Simplicity 3758 is probably only somewhat close to the 1800s and not
pre-1600.

So what would be a good shirt pattern, commercial or drafted by me, for a
shirt that will appeal to a teenager in the way that the commercial patterns
mentioned above would, but would still be a little bit closer to pre-1600?

He has a lovely Bocksten-style tunic which, so far, he has shown no interest
in wearing.  I would have loved to outfitted him in Viking, but he seems to
prefer something in a later period.  I am planning on making him a lovely
chocolate brown, cotton velveteen doublet, but that's not at the top of the
costume to-do list right now.

Ok, so I'm only asking the impossible - that's life with teens!

Laurie T.

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Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern

[Laurie Taylor]

I did it.

Your link to the Italian chemise was just what I needed to get me past a
potential block on this project.  I'm about 1/2 way through the basic
assembly - maybe a 1/2 hour to go.  The neckline - the important feature on
this chemise, will certainly take longer, but I can always use a project to
work on while sitting through music lessons.

This is just a trial run, using a very light, sheer 100% cotton with a very
subtle crinkle.  Nothing period about it, but the crinkle may actually work
well for producing the look of the chemise in the painting.

After I've worked out the kinks of sizing and assembly on this one, I'll
settle on a real linen for a second version.  I'm betting though, that this
trial-run if it turns out wearable, will actually get a lot of use.

So thanks again for the link and suggestions. I'm off and running and quite
excited.  My studio was getting lonely, but maybe this will lead to my
getting busy on other projects too...need to prime the pump sometimes.

Laurie T.





-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:08 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern

As I recall, the general consensus is that this raglan-style is not
supported by 
current research. If you want a more documentable pattern, go with this one:

http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html


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Re: [h-cost] Italian chemise

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

I'm doing a trial run on this chemise in a very light cotton.  Still looking
for linen, but considering the IL030 from fabrics-store.com, or the new bolt
that is coming in at Renaissance Fabrics.

Laurie


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Julie
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:12 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Italian chemise

This is a lovely chemise.  Judging by how very tiny the pleats/gathers are
it must be a very fine fabric.  I haven't had much luck finding fine linen
that wasn't outrageously expensive.  Where have you found fine linen in the
U.S.?
Julie in Ramona

  h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote:
I have to make this chemise.  Someone
 else had inquired about the bodice in this picture, but the chemise just
 really hooked me.
 
 http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23
 
 The painting is by Titian and the title is Woman with a Mirror, at least
on
 wga.hu.  

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Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern

[Laurie Taylor]

Well, it sounds as though you all have run into enough evidence of sewn
gathers on chemise necklines, for my idea of the chemise in the image being
sewn gathers to be correct.  Did that statement make any sense?

So, I'm thinking that I'll go with the sewn gathers, though getting them
sized right may be a bit tricky.  Of course, worse come to worse, I can
always fall back on an old theatre costume trick to adjust the fit -
catch-stitching over elastic on the inside - not period but not visible, so
if necessary...

Pattern-wise, I'm leaning towards the pattern shown on both of these links.
It should be close enough to the chemise in the image that started all this,
at least for my purposes.  If I were going to produce my own fiber, spin and
weave it, I'd be more concerned about exactly how the image chemise was
made, but this will do.

http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cheminst.html

http://www.reddawn.net/costume/chemise.htm

http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23

Any other thoughts on the pattern most welcome.

Laurie T.


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Carol Kocian
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:57 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern


On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:10 AM, Kate Bunting wrote:

 Laurie T wrote:

 The chemise in the painting seems unlikely to have a drawstring  
 neckline.
 Any thoughts on this?

 We discussed drawstrings on shifts/chemises a few years ago, and  
 the consensus was that before the 18th century they all had sewn  
 gathers round the neck and wrists.

 I recently heard a talk by Stuart Peachey, the British expert on  
 the 17th century, and asked him a question about this. He confirmed  
 the above statement.

 Kate Bunting
 Librarian  17th century reenactor.


Not much in the way of drawstrings in the 18thC, either. There are a  
few cases of a drawstring to snug up or hold the shape of a neckline,  
but not for controlling mass quantities of fabric. Shift sleeves were  
gathered into cuffs that buttoned and sometimes had a ruffle added..  
Some decades had volume in the sleeves, others had less volume when  
the gown sleeves fit closely.

I think the 1960s/70s peasant look made us believe drawstrings were  
all over the place.

-Carol
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Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern

[Laurie Taylor]

Wow!  Not only did you answer my question, but you actually managed to send
me a link to a web page that I had not seen before - funny considering that
I am familiar with Festive Attyre, but just missed that chemise page!
That's practically an early X-mas present!

I agree completely about the 'gathering' looking like very fine cartridge
pleating.  It will be a test of my stitching patience, but I love the look.

Yes, the softer and lighter the fabric, the better my odds for success.
I'll try my cotton first, just as a practice run and because it is here and
ready.  After that...time to shop I suppose.

Thank you so much for your response.  With everything that everyone has
offered up in the way of links and ideas, I'm comfortable finally with
getting this chemise started and finished.

Laurie T.




-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:08 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern

As I recall, the general consensus is that this raglan-style is not
supported by 
current research. If you want a more documentable pattern, go with this one:

http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html

As her notes say, this pattern was taken from the book Cut My Cote which
(as I 
recall) itself took the pattern from a surviving garment. People have used
this 
pattern for years, and I would say it does result in a garment that looks a
lot 
like your example painting.

Refer also to Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 4 for tips on how to
accomplish 
the gathering. Gathering, back in their day, is a lot more like super-fine 
cartridge pleating. That's really just how it turns out when you do
gathering 
stitches by hand (it doesn't have to, but it sure looks good that way).

I think you mentioned that you have fabric, but I will note: to best
approximate 
this look, you'll benefit from fabric with a super soft hand. This:

http://www.renaissancefabrics.net/cgi-bin/showAll.cgi?id=286category=Cotto
n%20Fabricfabric=53


might do the job. A pure silk voile might even be better, but I don't know
where 
to find such fabric.



Claudine




- Original Message 
 From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 11:53:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
 
snipped
 Pattern-wise, I'm leaning towards the  pattern shown on both of these
links.
 It should be close enough to the  chemise in the image that started all
this,
 at least for my purposes.   If I were going to produce my own fiber, spin
and
 weave it, I'd be more  concerned about exactly how the image chemise was
 made, but this will  do.
 
 http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cheminst.html
 
 http://www.reddawn.net/costume/chemise.htm
 
 http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23
 
 Any  other thoughts on the pattern most welcome.
 
 Laurie  T.
 
snipped

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[h-cost] (no subject)

[Laurie Taylor]

Good evening,

Well, I don't know which costuming list first brought this image to my
attention, but the time has come...I have to make this chemise.  Someone
else had inquired about the bodice in this picture, but the chemise just
really hooked me.

http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23

The painting is by Titian and the title is Woman with a Mirror, at least on
wga.hu.  I'd have used that link instead of this, but the WGA links don't
seem to work for getting directly to images.  Fortunately, there seem to be
plenty of photos of this painting all over the 'net.

As to why I'm rambling on about this image here, on h-costume, I'm debating
the pattern for this chemise.  I'm thinking that this should be no more
complicated than the Elizabethan chemise shown here,
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cheminst.html, even though this picture is
considerably earlier than Elizabethan, but I thought I'd seek other opinions
on the matter.

I have, for my first attempt at this chemise, a very sheer, cotton crinkle.
It certainly isn't period, but I think that it would give the look of the
chemise in the image.  I also have a silk set aside for this, for a second
version.

The chemise in the painting seems unlikely to have a drawstring neckline.
Any thoughts on this?  The picture on WGA.hu, zoomed to 200%, looks like
maybe very fine, parallel rows of gathers which would not have the
adjustability of a drawstring, but it's that gathered look that I like about
this chemise.

The sleeves are extremely full, but this could be a drawstring that has been
left un-drawn, untied.  Again, any interpretations from any of you?

Thanks.

Laurie T.
Phoenix


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Re: [h-cost] OOPS - forgot subject line - Chemise pattern questions - c.1514

[Laurie Taylor]

OOPS - bad me - forgot subject line on message below!

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 11:00 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] (no subject)

Good evening,

Well, I don't know which costuming list first brought this image to my
attention, but the time has come...I have to make this chemise.  Someone
else had inquired about the bodice in this picture, but the chemise just
really hooked me.

http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23

The painting is by Titian and the title is Woman with a Mirror, at least on
wga.hu.  I'd have used that link instead of this, but the WGA links don't
seem to work for getting directly to images.  Fortunately, there seem to be
plenty of photos of this painting all over the 'net.

As to why I'm rambling on about this image here, on h-costume, I'm debating
the pattern for this chemise.  I'm thinking that this should be no more
complicated than the Elizabethan chemise shown here,
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cheminst.html, even though this picture is
considerably earlier than Elizabethan, but I thought I'd seek other opinions
on the matter.

I have, for my first attempt at this chemise, a very sheer, cotton crinkle.
It certainly isn't period, but I think that it would give the look of the
chemise in the image.  I also have a silk set aside for this, for a second
version.

The chemise in the painting seems unlikely to have a drawstring neckline.
Any thoughts on this?  The picture on WGA.hu, zoomed to 200%, looks like
maybe very fine, parallel rows of gathers which would not have the
adjustability of a drawstring, but it's that gathered look that I like about
this chemise.

The sleeves are extremely full, but this could be a drawstring that has been
left un-drawn, untied.  Again, any interpretations from any of you?

Thanks.

Laurie T.
Phoenix


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Re: [h-cost] Prym/Dritz dress forms

[Laurie Taylor]

Well, for what it's worth, I've heard of people making a very tightly fitted
muslin of their own body, either one piece shoulder-to-hem, or with the seam
at the waist, and stuffing it to approximate their body.  Not the easiest
thing to do, since you'd have to double check for non-circumferential
measurements such as width and depth, but it could be done.  I would not
stuff it with a poly pillow stuffing, but maybe a wool or cotton upholstery
batting.

Then of course, there are the duct-tape doubles, paper-tape doubles and
plaster-bandage body molds.  All of these will get you close to your
dimensions with your levels and your posture.  Some work is involved, but
some people think these are well worth it.  The duct-tape form could be
stuffed with batting and then corseted, but I have not tried that and do not
know how well it would work.  The plaster-bandage form is usually stuffed
with a 2-part foam mixture that dries hard and would not work with
corseting.  The foam is also probably similar to what you're hoping to
avoid.

Best wishes.

Laurie

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for all the advice!  I think I'll skip the Dritz form, since it
 probably wouldn't adjust to my size very well either - I'm tall and thin
 with a small bust and a long torso.  The pliable form sounds like a much
 better deal, but I'm not too keen on the polyurethane base of the Uniquely
 You.  Does anyone know of a soft dress form stuffed with something else -
 cotton or wool batting, maybe?
 Emily
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[h-cost] Schools for costume history degrees

[Laurie Taylor]

A former student contacted me requesting information about schools in
southern California, offering degrees in Costume History.  I have no
information for her, but am betting that some of you know which schools
offer degrees.  Suggestions welcome.  I did Google, but didn't come up with
as much as I expected.  Must not have picked the right search terms.

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com



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[h-cost] Hill Bucknell - re-drawings source images

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

Have you heard of anyone having cross-reference the re-drawings in Hill 
Bucknell's The Evolution of Fashion to the original artwork from which the
re-drawings were taken?

I know that the original artwork would not look like the re-drawings in
terms of background and pose, but would still love to have them for my class
discussion on primary and secondary sources.  I may get lucky and stumble
across some of these, but some will be more difficult or impossible without
a possible starting point.  

I'm good at passing hours and hours looking at images on-line, so I will
find some of them, but if I don't have to re-invent the wheel, that would be
lovely.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

I can't help you with your quest, but just wanted to thank you for that
link!  I've never seen a photo of that pourpoint in color before, nor
displayed on a form.  I had no idea what good condition it appears to be in
or even that it would be such a lovely color.  Wow.


Laurie Taylor
www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Zuzana Kraemerova
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:37 AM
To: h-costume
Subject: [h-cost] textile pattern of Charles de Blois pourpoint

Hi all,

I want to make a reproduction fabric of the Charles de Blois pourpoint. The
problem is that I cannot find any detailed picture that would clearly show
the pattern. The best I found so far is:
http://www.musee-des-tissus.com/en/02_02/col06/tis07/ima_2.gif
Does anybody have a better picture? 

Thanks,

Zuzana
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[h-cost] (no subject)

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

A long while back, I ran across a page on a web site listing some of the
many costume history books that people frequently reference, and discussing
why they might not necessarily be considered reliable.  I cannot find the
link or the pdf that I might have made from that page.

Does anyone know to which web article I am referring, and if so, where I
might find it again?  I've been googling for a while, but just haven't hit
on the right search terms to get it to pop up.

Thanks.

Laurie T.

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[h-cost] Question re: pattern sizes

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

I recall, from somewhere in the vast world of online costume discussion
groups, a statement that many of the Big 4 patterns for corsets tend to run
really large.  It was said that, at least for some of these patterns, it's
necessary to cut them 1-2 sizes smaller than one's measurements would
indicate, in order to get a finished corset that can actually lace properly
and function as a corset should.

Do any of you have any experience with this concept/issue?  Any thoughts on
specific patterns that should or should not be cut smaller than one's normal
pattern size to get the proper result?

Should I be directing this to any other group?  Don't want to create
duplicate e-mails for those who subscribe to more than one group, so I am
starting here, but if you think some place else would be better, please so
advise!

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com



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Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns, was Re: Question re: pattern sizes

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi Joan,

I agree with much of what you wrote completely.  My students are seldom
inclined though to shop for patterns outside of the Big 4, so I feel that I
should be familiar with what they'll be up against when they insist on using
those.  And too, I have plenty of those on hand so it's hard to resist the
temptation to play with them.

As for the Laughing Moon pattern, it's partly cut and awaiting assembly,
though I'll probably have to recut it since that one was cut before the sad
size change...urgh.

I'll be moving beyond Laughing Moon as I'm looking at a late 18th century
model in the immediate future, as well as several others.  Nothing like
setting myself up for a lot of boning channels to stitch!

Nah...I'll make my own.  I've done enough ballet bodices and theatrical
costume work to be pretty confident with corsets.  

As to the measuring of the patterns and totaling up the measurements for
comparison to me, before settling on a size...hmm...I had that previous
discussion on how the Big 4 tend to run big so firmly on my mind...I was
just curious to what others thought, but YES, I'll quit being lazy, sitting
at my computer and thinking about it and JUST GO MEASURE!

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Joan Jurancich
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:30 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Corset patterns, was Re: Question re: pattern sizes

At 10:02 AM 2/23/2010, you wrote:
Hi,

I recall, from somewhere in the vast world of online costume discussion
groups, a statement that many of the Big 4 patterns for corsets tend to run
really large.  It was said that, at least for some of these patterns, it's
necessary to cut them 1-2 sizes smaller than one's measurements would
indicate, in order to get a finished corset that can actually lace properly
and function as a corset should.

Do any of you have any experience with this concept/issue?  Any thoughts on
specific patterns that should or should not be cut smaller than one's
normal
pattern size to get the proper result?

Should I be directing this to any other group?  Don't want to create
duplicate e-mails for those who subscribe to more than one group, so I am
starting here, but if you think some place else would be better, please so
advise!

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

Well, you need a one to two inch gap in the back when you are laced 
in properly (if it closes completely, it's too big).  If the pattern 
does not give the finished size of the corset, you will need to 
measure yourself, then the pattern pieces, and then choose the size 
that comes closest to the one that fits your body shape (ignore the 
pattern sizes, only pay attention to the actual measurements).  If 
you are planning on wearing the corset frequently, I really recommend 
that you have the corset made by a corsettier.  As a docent at 
Sutter's Fort, I am fairly regularly in my 1840's attire and a 
properly fitting corset is a necessity (it cost me a bit under $300, 
but is worth every penny).  Also, I am very short-waisted (we had to 
chop off a full 2 inches at the top), so I found it best to have the 
corset made for me.  You MUST make a muslin for fitting before you 
make the final corset.  All in all, I don't recommend that you use 
one of the Big 4.  The Laf'n Moon Victorian Underwear pattern is an 
excellent starting point (it's what was used for me); in addition to 
the corset pattern it also has chemise and split drawer patterns.  I 
must admit that Joann Petersen, the owner  designer of Laf'n Moon 
patterns, is a friend of mine, but I still think that her patterns 
are the best.

 From drizzly Sacramento,

Joan Jurancich
joa...@surewest.net 
.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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Re: [h-cost] Costume Workshops in US

[Laurie Taylor]

But it's never going to get here fast enough!  I can't wait.  I'm like a kid
stuck in school, waiting for summer vacation.

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Maggie
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:23 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Workshops in US

http://www.costumecollege.org
Costume CollegeR is a three-day educational conference on all subjects
relating to costuming and clothing.

This year, Costume CollegeR will be held on August 6 - 9, 2010.

Our hotel is the Warner Center
Marriotthttp://www.costumecollege.org/CoCo_hotel.htmlin Woodland
Hills, California. Please take a virtual tour, find out about
the hotel, and book your room.

MaggiRos

Maggie Secara
~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603
Available at your favorite online bookseller
See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/popinjaypress


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Aylwen Garden aylwe...@gmail.com wrote:

 What are the exact dates? August begins on a Sunday - so is it the 1st
 or 2nd weekend of August?
 Bye for now,

 Aylwen

 Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy
 http://www.earthlydelights.com.au
 Director, Jane Austen Festival Australia
 http://www.janeaustenfestival.com.au
 Member, Jane Austen Society of Australia
 Member, Australian Costumers Guild



 On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Regina Lawson reginalaws...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Costume College 2010, presented by the Costumer's Guild West, is the
 first
  weekend in August, In Los Angeles, if you can get here.  It is a great
  event, with three days of workshops and the price is fabulous!
 
  http://www.costumecollege.org
 
  Hope to see you there.
 

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Re: [h-cost] Edwardian pattern question

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi Fran,

Thanks.  Yes, I have a lot of the information on Thompson's, just not a
source for the jacket on the cover of the reprint from Lacis.  I suppose
I'll have to give up and make my own pattern, but the original would be
really cool.


Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lavolta Press
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:28 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Edwardian pattern question

Thompson's is an apportioning scale system (not an inch measure system). 
I have a set of their scales and a stack of their publications. Their 
strategy was to give you some fashion plates and some diagrams of basic 
components, and let you decide how to put the outfit together.

Fran
Lavolta Press
http://www.lavoltapress.com



On 2/9/2010 7:52 PM, Ann Catelli wrote:
 Thompson's Universal System is available at the Costumer's
Manifesto:http://www.costumes.org/history/galleryimages/c1899thompsonssyste
m/index.htm
 I don't know what the Kliots used for their version.

 Ann in CT

 --- On Tue, 2/9/10, Laurie Taylorcostume...@mazarineblue.com  wrote:

 Does anyone have Garment Patterns for the Edwardian Lady by
 Mrs. Thompson,
 ed. by Jules  Kaethe Kliot?  If so, I'd love to
 have your thoughts on the
 cover outfit of that book.  I can see a likely pattern
 for the skirt within
 the patterns in the book, but I'm not so sure about the
 jacket, and it is
 the jacket that I really love.  I can probably figure
 something out for it,
 if not from this book, then from other sources, but I
 wanted to make sure
 first that I am not just overlooking something obvious in
 the book.

 Laurie Taylor




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[h-cost] Edwardian pattern question

[Laurie Taylor]

I've been away from e-mails for a while, but am trying to re-activate my
seemingly dormant creativity by doing something that seems really fun to me.
I'm hoping that maybe this will be a project from the cover of a book, but
I'm running into an early quandary.

Does anyone have Garment Patterns for the Edwardian Lady by Mrs. Thompson,
ed. by Jules  Kaethe Kliot?  If so, I'd love to have your thoughts on the
cover outfit of that book.  I can see a likely pattern for the skirt within
the patterns in the book, but I'm not so sure about the jacket, and it is
the jacket that I really love.  I can probably figure something out for it,
if not from this book, then from other sources, but I wanted to make sure
first that I am not just overlooking something obvious in the book.

Any thoughts most welcome.

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lavolta Press
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:10 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 100 percent silk velvet

I ran across this page when looking for embroidered silks (which these 
are not).

http://www.anjooriansilks.com/gallery/detail.asp?iCat=154iPic=5313

If you have any questions about the fiber, etc., please contact the 
website owners (not me).

Fran
Lavolta Press
Books on historic clothing, including
The Lady's Stratagem: A Repository of 1820s Instructions for the Toilet, 
Mantua-Making, Stay-Making, Millinery  etiquette
www.lavoltapress.com
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Re: [h-cost] 17c jacket sewing advice

[Laurie Taylor]

Might this be what you're looking for, a tutorial on sewing in gores?  Hope
it might help.

http://www.cottesimple.com/gores/gores.html

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Kate Bunting
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:11 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] 17c jacket sewing advice

Dear list,

I have at last started on a long-planned project to make myself a
17th-century jacket (for when I need extra warmth). I'm using a pattern from
The cut of women's clothes that has triangular gussets in the skirts. Now,
as a not-very-competent needlewoman, I'm finding it difficult to get the
points of the gussets to fit neatly. I'm only working with the lining
material as yet, and have only tacked the pieces together. Can anyone offer
any advice before I start sewing properly?

With thanks,

Kate Bunting
Librarian  17th century reenactor



The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves
the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to
you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct
any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk
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[h-cost] Pattern Question - 18th C. Curacao - Butterick 3640

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

I have a piece of fabric that is screaming to be a late 18th C. caracao or
similar late 18th c. 'jacket'.  I don't have enough for a sack gown or
anything else that massive. A pet-en-lair might also work, though I have
enough of the fabric that such a small garment would seem wasteful.

I'm looking at making do with Butterick 3640, view A.  I do realize that
this is one of the Big 4 companies' silly attempts at historical accuracy,
and therefore, not period correct.  Some of it I can live with, and some I
can fix.  I'm trying to decide what really needs fixing.

I looked at Hunisett first, but did not see anything quite like what I'm
picturing.  There is a sketch on page 24 of Arnold - Patterns of Fashion 1,
that actually is quite a bit like my mental image, and quite drastically
different than the Butterick pattern; obviously much more realistically
period.  It is followed by several more pages of likely candidates for this
piece of fabric, especially p. 26 and p. 30.

So, the Butterick has the advantage of having the pattern already graded.  I
can draft out one of the Arnolds and grade it accurately, and I'll still
have an awful lot of fitting/altering to do...no way around that and ditto
for the Butterick.

If the Butterick were worn over period skirt supports, how far would it
still be from anything that actually existed in period?  Would the changes
to make it more period be reasonable or not worth the effort?  I've been
browsing through paintings of the period, but have not found anything that
resembles the Butterick.

Also, as pictured on the pattern envelope, is the high contrast of the
yellow ground of the upper dress/caracao to the blue petticoat correct for
period?  My fabric has a deep red ground and I'm trying to decide if the
skirt/petticoat should be something in the same shade of red, maybe solid,
or if I should go for a contrast.

Ok, I'm going to go do some more of my homework for this project, but any of
your thoughts would be most welcome.

Laurie T.

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Re: [h-cost] Roman question

[Laurie Taylor]

Thank you to Catherine and Heather...

For both having pointed out Heather's Archeological Sewing page.  That is so
cool, since I'm teaching a costume construction class right now and still
making decisions as to what samples to require.  

As for the paenula, I think I'll just run with the idea of the overlapped
edges - no fold-under - as this wool piece seems to lend itself to that
option rather nicely.

Thanks again and have a good one!


Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:32 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman question

On Sep 11, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com 
  wrote:

 Hi,

 Finally making progress in my quest to build pieces to use in my  
 history
 class.  The ancients are certainly some of the simplest to build,  
 but of
 course I have an insatiable need to complicate my life and my  
 projects!

 So, if you were building a Roman paenula (hooded poncho-like  
 garment) in a
 thick wool or fake wool (actual fiber not certain), the cut edges of  
 which
 are pretty stable, how would you sew the seams?  Obviously I'm not  
 looking
 for serging ideas here.  I am maybe contemplating actually hand  
 stitching it
 since it doesn't amount to a whole lot of sewing.

 I think my question is do we think that they would have lapped the  
 edges and
 sewn through the layers - no flapping seam allowances on the  
 inside?  Or
 would regular, plain seams, pressed open or to one side seem more  
 likely?

 This is NOT life altering stuff here!  I've not gone over the edge  
 in a
 quest for period accuracy.  I'm just curious.

In researching constructional sewing (as opposed to decorative, that  
is), the most typical seam for wool from antiquity up through the  
medieval period is a lapped or felled seam, often with one or both  
of the edges turned under, but sometimes with the fabric simply  
overlapped. The stitch used is typically an overcast stitch. Rather  
than trying to describe it, I'll point you to my article  
archaeological sewing on my website at heatherrosejones.com.

Heather 
  
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Re: [h-cost] Roman question

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

Yes, that's along the line of what I'm debating.  Come morning, when I'm
actually awake and functioning, I'll read this again and see if this is how
I want to proceed.

Thanks.

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Becky Rautine
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:42 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman question


Do you have an image to refresh my memory?
I think we studied some Early Roman paintings that the teacher said had this
type of hood/ covering. I think he suggested that most outer edges were left
raw but folded somehow. Like a double piece of fabric that is made when you
fold 2 edges together on one piece. Some of the weaving of the cloth was
actually woven in the desired shape then stitched side by side, no overlap
or seam allowance. I'm not sure if that applied to what you're looking at. 

Sincerely,
Rebecca Rautine



 From: costume...@mazarineblue.com
 To: h-cost...@indra.com
 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:23:15 -0700
 Subject: [h-cost] Roman question
 
 Hi,
 
 Finally making progress in my quest to build pieces to use in my history
 class.  The ancients are certainly some of the simplest to build, but of
 course I have an insatiable need to complicate my life and my projects! 
 
 So, if you were building a Roman paenula (hooded poncho-like garment) in a
 thick wool or fake wool (actual fiber not certain), the cut edges of which
 are pretty stable, how would you sew the seams?  Obviously I'm not looking
 for serging ideas here.  I am maybe contemplating actually hand stitching
it
 since it doesn't amount to a whole lot of sewing.  
 
 I think my question is do we think that they would have lapped the edges
and
 sewn through the layers - no flapping seam allowances on the inside?  Or
 would regular, plain seams, pressed open or to one side seem more likely?
 
 This is NOT life altering stuff here!  I've not gone over the edge in a
 quest for period accuracy.  I'm just curious.
 
 Laurie Taylor
 
 (480) 560-7016
 
 www.costumeraz.blogspot.com
 
 
 
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[h-cost] Roman question

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

Finally making progress in my quest to build pieces to use in my history
class.  The ancients are certainly some of the simplest to build, but of
course I have an insatiable need to complicate my life and my projects! 

So, if you were building a Roman paenula (hooded poncho-like garment) in a
thick wool or fake wool (actual fiber not certain), the cut edges of which
are pretty stable, how would you sew the seams?  Obviously I'm not looking
for serging ideas here.  I am maybe contemplating actually hand stitching it
since it doesn't amount to a whole lot of sewing.  

I think my question is do we think that they would have lapped the edges and
sewn through the layers - no flapping seam allowances on the inside?  Or
would regular, plain seams, pressed open or to one side seem more likely?

This is NOT life altering stuff here!  I've not gone over the edge in a
quest for period accuracy.  I'm just curious.

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com



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Re: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant uniforms ....a site for you

[Laurie Taylor]

The Aviation Museum in San Diego has a flight attendants' uniforms exhibit.
Don't know what they might have in the way of exhibit brochures.

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Melody Watts
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:25 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant uniforms a site for you

Here's Pan Am's photo history bit on uniforms:
 
http://www.panamair.org/History/uniforms.htm
 
looks like someof the BW are early. Will post more as I find them.

melody

--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Cin cinbar...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com
Subject: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant uniforms
To: h-cost h-cost...@indra.com
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 1:06 PM


My cousin is president of the China National Aviation Corporation
(CNAC )  she has what I think is a fun idea for the reunion this
year.  She thinks we should dress as stewardesses for the reunion.
http://www.cnac.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_National_Aviation_Corporation
She  I typically tend bar as the pilots, navigators, ground team (now
in their 80s  90s) swap lies  do a little hangar flying.

Does anyone know of sources for pictures, patches, pins, patterns 
accessories for the ladies' uniforms?  At this point we'd start with
most any 30s stews' uniforms  improve them later.

This is a fun, historical organization consisting of people who worked
the Hump route in the late 30s  early 40s, their family members 
aviation history buffs.  CNAC was a supported China by flying supplies
into Yunnan before the US actively joined the allies WWII.

Thanks all,
--cin
Cynthia Barnes
cinbar...@gmail.com
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[h-cost] Holkeboer book - patterns question - long

[Laurie Taylor]

Hello,

I'm looking at the Holkeboer book, Patterns for Theatrical Costumes.  I do
understand that the book is intended for theatrical use where down-and-dirty
is so often the rule of the day.  However, I am looking at the first three
sections of historical patterns - Egyptian, Greek and Roman, with the idea
of these being (or not) a reasonable jumping-off point to cut lengths for
hopefully accurate reproduction of the basic garments of those cultures.  My
students are going to get the fun of being handed these lengths and trying
to figure out how to wrap the long pieces to get the correct effect as well
as how to tie the ribbons or belts on the Greek chitons.

The book states that the patterns are in 1/8 scale, with a few in 1/16.  I
grabbed a ruler and calculator and did all the math on those first sections.

This is what I came up with for yardage for the main pieces in each cultural
group.  These would all be approximate amounts with some flexibility as
suited available fabrics.

Egyptian
Man's Kalasiris 48 x 3 1/3 yards
Man's Schenti   22 x 2 2/3 yards
Woman's Sheath  28 x 3 1/8 yards
Woman's Kalasiris 64 x 3 2/3 yards

Greek
Man's Chiton/Exomis 36 x 2 1/2 yards
Man's Himation  48 or 72 x 4-6 yards
Woman's Doric Chiton 1  76 x 74
Woman's Ionic Chiton64 x 6 1/8 yards
Woman's Gathered Chiton 64 x 6 1/8 yards
Woman's Doric Chiton 2  88 x 2 2/3 yards
Woman's Himation60 x 4 yards
Woman's Narrow Himation 24 x 4 yards

Roman
Man's Toga (cut oval)   72 x 6 1/4 yards
Man's Tunic 48 x 2 1/8 yards
Man's Paenula   58 x 3 3/4 yards
Man's Lacerna   38 x 2 1/2 yards
Woman's Stola   60 x 6 2/3 yards
Woman's Palla   60 x 4 yards

Man's Dalmatica 64 x 2 5/8 yards
Woman's Dalmatica   60 x 4 1/8 yards

Of course, as long as no stitching is done to a cut length, it could well
double for different pieces amongst the cultures, i.e. the Greek woman's
chitons and the Roman woman's stola could be done from the same piece.

So, do any of these lengths seem too long for the garment in question?  The
Roman woman's stola seemed like an awful lot of fabric to me, even
understanding the light weight of the period fabrics.  I did use 1/8 as the
scale for all of the patterns where 1/16 was not specified.  The width of
the fabric most often corresponds to the length of the garment on the body,
with the yards amount being somehow wrapped around the body.  

I have tons of fabric to play with, or to permit students to play with, so
we can do a lot of this.  I'm going to cut a few specific pieces which will
even get some non-period trim stitched on as a substitute for the
embroidered or woven designs on the ancient garments.  

Also, does anyone know if there's a connection between Katherine
Strand-Evans and Katherine Strand Holkeboer?  Just curious.

Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

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Re: [h-cost] Holkeboer book - patterns question - long

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

Actually, I don't see this book using rectangles and triangles nearly as much 
as was really done, but for my purposes right now, that doesn't matter.  
Grading patterns is no problem either, especially when it's the Greek and Roman 
stuff.


Laurie Taylor

(480) 560-7016

www.costumeraz.blogspot.com


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Chiara Francesca
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:21 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holkeboer book - patterns question - long

When I first started to use this book I quickly realized that it was neither a 
quick nor dirty way to making costumes really. (But we say it is so that we can 
get new folks learning how to make costumes the best way possible and inspire 
them to learn the accurate way later on.)

If you do not know how to resize patterns then you need to learn how to do it 
first. 

The thing that makes it simple to many of us however is that they use the 
theory of rectangles and draping to make everything. :)

♫
Chiara Francesca
« Ehi Prof.! Che cosa facciamo stasera?»
« Quello che facciamo tutte le sere, Mignolo: tentare di conquistare il mondo! »
(hint: italian)


 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com]
 On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
 Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 4:05 PM
 To: 'Historical Costume'
 Subject: [h-cost] Holkeboer book - patterns question - long
 
 Hello,
 
 I'm looking at the Holkeboer book, Patterns for Theatrical Costumes.  I
 do
 understand that the book is intended for theatrical use where down-and-
 dirty
 is so often the rule of the day.  However, I am looking at the first
 three
 sections of historical patterns - Egyptian, Greek and Roman, with the
 idea
 of these being (or not) a reasonable jumping-off point to cut lengths
 for
 hopefully accurate reproduction of the basic garments of those
 cultures.  My
 students are going to get the fun of being handed these lengths and
 trying
 to figure out how to wrap the long pieces to get the correct effect as
 well
 as how to tie the ribbons or belts on the Greek chitons.
 
 The book states that the patterns are in 1/8 scale, with a few in 1/16.
 I
 grabbed a ruler and calculator and did all the math on those first
 sections.
 
 This is what I came up with for yardage for the main pieces in each
 cultural
 group.  These would all be approximate amounts with some flexibility as
 suited available fabrics.
 
 Egyptian
 Man's Kalasiris   48 x 3 1/3 yards
 Man's Schenti 22 x 2 2/3 yards
 Woman's Sheath28 x 3 1/8 yards
 Woman's Kalasiris 64 x 3 2/3 yards
 
 Greek
 Man's Chiton/Exomis   36 x 2 1/2 yards
 Man's Himation48 or 72 x 4-6 yards
 Woman's Doric Chiton 176 x 74
 Woman's Ionic Chiton  64 x 6 1/8 yards
 Woman's Gathered Chiton   64 x 6 1/8 yards
 Woman's Doric Chiton 288 x 2 2/3 yards
 Woman's Himation  60 x 4 yards
 Woman's Narrow Himation   24 x 4 yards
 
 Roman
 Man's Toga (cut oval) 72 x 6 1/4 yards
 Man's Tunic   48 x 2 1/8 yards
 Man's Paenula 58 x 3 3/4 yards
 Man's Lacerna 38 x 2 1/2 yards
 Woman's Stola 60 x 6 2/3 yards
 Woman's Palla 60 x 4 yards
 
 Man's Dalmatica   64 x 2 5/8 yards
 Woman's Dalmatica 60 x 4 1/8 yards
 
 Of course, as long as no stitching is done to a cut length, it could
 well
 double for different pieces amongst the cultures, i.e. the Greek
 woman's
 chitons and the Roman woman's stola could be done from the same piece.
 
 So, do any of these lengths seem too long for the garment in question?
 The
 Roman woman's stola seemed like an awful lot of fabric to me, even
 understanding the light weight of the period fabrics.  I did use 1/8 as
 the
 scale for all of the patterns where 1/16 was not specified.  The width
 of
 the fabric most often corresponds to the length of the garment on the
 body,
 with the yards amount being somehow wrapped around the body.
 
 I have tons of fabric to play with, or to permit students to play with,
 so
 we can do a lot of this.  I'm going to cut a few specific pieces which
 will
 even get some non-period trim stitched on as a substitute for the
 embroidered or woven designs on the ancient garments.
 
 Also, does anyone know if there's a connection between Katherine
 Strand-Evans and Katherine Strand Holkeboer?  Just curious.
 
 Laurie Taylor
 
 (480) 560-7016
 
 www.costumeraz.blogspot.com
 
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Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

Thanks.  I'll dig out my catalog and take a look.  I just really want that
dress!  It's like really wanting a doll from the old Sears Wishbook!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of bphal...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:15 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait


 Dharma also has some very lightweight cotton that could work well for this
dress.? They have both a combed cotton lawn and two cotton voiles.

Britta/Vasilisa


 


 

-Original Message-
From: Betsy Marshall be...@softwareinnovation.com
To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 4:23 pm
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait










Many moons ago I sprung for the Dharma trading collection of silk swatches-
very informative! Good luck, Betsy

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 5:15 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

A cotton/linen blend sounds nice, and might have a bit more of the crispness
that is evident in the chemise dress.  I'm actually contemplating the
cotton/silk blend from
http://www.renaissancefabrics.net/cgi-bin/showAll.cgi?id=286, as I think
that the silk would also give the crispness that makes that ruffle stand
rather than drooping.  Much more affordable than the sheer linen, which I
can


 

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

Thanks for the reminder.  Sometimes that occurs to me and sometimes not!

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of albert...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:20 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait




Much more affordable than the sheer linen, which I
cannot imaging JoAnn's having ever carried.







**




I once found yardage of cotton almost-gauze in the drapery dept. of an
everything $7 store! It came in off white and a deep rich red, yellow and
a navy!




Imagine a dress in the red with tucks and such over a white underdress.




Don't rule out the local drapery stores!


 



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Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

De,

Thank you.  You pretty much summed up what I thought, though I still can't
help think that the silk chiffons that I've used in the past were to mushy
to look like that.  I had been looking at the edge treatment last night and
wondering if it would be enough to make a mushy chiffon behave as Le Brun
portrayed it.

Silly to be so hung up on wanting to do it 'right', but I've loved it since
the first time I saw it, regardless of its history.  

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of otsisto
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:41 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

You are looking at possibly an ecru silk chiffon lined with white linen or
cotton. The shoulder region is not a different material from the sleeve, it
is the two layers only flat. The edges of the ruffles seem to have either
bia tape, ribbon or possibly embroidered edge.

http://www.lostcoasthistpatterns.com/chdrbyrohofa.html
http://www.jennylafleur.com/diary/georgian07/chemise07.jpg
http://www.jennylafleur.com/diary/georgian07/chemise05.jpg
http://www.jennylafleur.com/diary/georgian07/chemise03.jpg

This one is in cotton
http://www3.fitnyc.edu/museum/Arbitersofstyle/chemise.dresses.htm

Someone made it
http://wearing-history.com/images/chemisedress.jpg

De
-Original Message-
Hello,

My mad scramble to get myself ready for Costume College left me with a new
goal, but I'm very uncertain about fabric.

I want to make this gown:
http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/big/marie14a.jpg

I know that there are other copies of this image on the web, but this was
the first one I found just now.

What fabric would you use for this?  It is certainly semi-sheer, more so
than voile.  Silk chiffon would be too soft, silk organza possibly too
stiff?  I just can't decide.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

Ann,

Thanks for the information and perspective.  I hadn't considered
separately-cut ruffles.  I do think that you're right that the sleeve ruffle
is a continuation, but if I'm trying to make modern fabrics behave properly,
cutting ruffles separately, in different fabrics, could work.

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of annbw...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:29 AM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait


Yes, that is the infamous chemise gown and would have been made of
lightweight linen or cotton--supposed Marie Antoinette adopted the style
worn by the Creoles in the hot and steamy Caribbean.? It is possible that,
during the time, an even more sheer linen or cotton was used for the
ruffles, although I had always thought the sleeve ruffle was a continuation
of the sleeve made by drawing it up.? There is a pattern for an extant
English chemise dress in Cut of Women's Clothes. 

?

Ann Wass


-Original Message-
From: otsisto otsi...@socket.net
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 4:40 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait




You are looking at possibly an ecru silk chiffon lined with white linen or
cotton. The shoulder region is not a different material from the sleeve, it
is the two layers only flat. The edges of the ruffles seem to have either
bia tape, ribbon or possibly embroidered edge.

http://www.lostcoasthistpatterns.com/chdrbyrohofa.html
http://www.jennylafleur.com/diary/georgian07/chemise07.jpg
http://www.jennylafleur.com/diary/georgian07/chemise05.jpg
http://www.jennylafleur.com/diary/georgian07/chemise03.jpg

This one is in cotton
http://www3.fitnyc.edu/museum/Arbitersofstyle/chemise.dresses.htm

Someone made it
http://wearing-history.com/images/chemisedress.jpg

De
-Original Message-
Hello,

My mad scramble to get myself ready for Costume College left me with a new
goal, but I'm very uncertain about fabric.

I want to make this gown:
http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/big/marie14a.jpg

I know that there are other copies of this image on the web, but this was
the first one I found just now.

What fabric would you use for this?  It is certainly semi-sheer, more so
than voile.  Silk chiffon would be too soft, silk organza possibly too
stiff?  I just can't decide.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

A cotton/linen blend sounds nice, and might have a bit more of the crispness
that is evident in the chemise dress.  I'm actually contemplating the
cotton/silk blend from
http://www.renaissancefabrics.net/cgi-bin/showAll.cgi?id=286, as I think
that the silk would also give the crispness that makes that ruffle stand
rather than drooping.  Much more affordable than the sheer linen, which I
cannot imaging JoAnn's having ever carried.

I did find a sheer linen here
http://www.villageworkroom.com/html/linen_sheers.html, but would want to buy
yardage rather than finished curtain panels.

Well, I guess I'd better just start collecting swatches until I find
something that I can live with.

Thanks everybody!

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of otsisto
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:50 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

I know that there is a very nice near sheer material out there that is a
cotton linen blend, Jo Ann's used to carry it. Somewhere on line I had seen
the sheer linen but is was $36 per. aprox. 1yd x 26 and it would have to be
shipped from Europe to the states. Out of price, out of range so I didn't
save the site. :(
Walmart, when they had their $1 table used to have the indian cotton that
was on the verge of being sheer but you sneezed on it wrong and you go a
tear.

By the way, it isn't silly. Just make sure it doesn't become obsessive and
make you mental. :)
As the one say goes Perfection can be a tapeworm, your never satisfied

De

-Original Message-
(snip)

Silly to be so hung up on wanting to do it 'right', but I've loved it since
the first time I saw it, regardless of its history.

Laurie T.


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[h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

Hello,

My mad scramble to get myself ready for Costume College left me with a new
goal, but I'm very uncertain about fabric.

I want to make this gown:
http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/big/marie14a.jpg

I know that there are other copies of this image on the web, but this was
the first one I found just now.

What fabric would you use for this?  It is certainly semi-sheer, more so
than voile.  Silk chiffon would be too soft, silk organza possibly too
stiff?  I just can't decide.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

I realize that it is a cotton or linen chemise dress, but I'm confounded by
what modern fabric to use to approximate it.  Even the ancient Egyptians had
sheer linens, but modern sheers seem too stiff or too mushy.

I need a time-travel machine!

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Carol Kocian
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:48 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait


  That's a chemise dress. It would have been linen or cotton.  
Yes,they made it that sheer back then.


On Aug 12, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:

 Hello,

 My mad scramble to get myself ready for Costume College left me  
 with a new
 goal, but I'm very uncertain about fabric.

 I want to make this gown:
 http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/big/marie14a.jpg

 I know that there are other copies of this image on the web, but  
 this was
 the first one I found just now.

 What fabric would you use for this?  It is certainly semi-sheer,  
 more so
 than voile.  Silk chiffon would be too soft, silk organza possibly too
 stiff?  I just can't decide.

 Laurie T.
 Phoenix
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Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

[Laurie Taylor]

Well, I hadn't thought of using two different fabrics for the outer dress.
Suppose that might work.  I do see on her shoulder, under the ruffle, an
under-sleeve of an opaque fabric which would be the under-support for the
sleeve puffs.

I think the ruffles need a bit more body than chiffon, but I may have to get
a sample set from Dharma or Rupert, Gibbon  Spider and work it out that
way.

Thanks.

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Betsy Marshall
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:21 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

It looks like the ruffles on neck and forearm are of thinner material than
the main body of the dress- eg. I can see the line of the forearm, (but not
the elbow/upper arm) through the fabric; perhaps a light/hanky linen for the
dress and a silk chiffon for the ruffles?

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Laurie Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:00 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait

I realize that it is a cotton or linen chemise dress, but I'm confounded by
what modern fabric to use to approximate it.  Even the ancient Egyptians had
sheer linens, but modern sheers seem too stiff or too mushy.

I need a time-travel machine!

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Carol Kocian
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:48 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait


  That's a chemise dress. It would have been linen or cotton.  
Yes,they made it that sheer back then.


On Aug 12, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:

 Hello,

 My mad scramble to get myself ready for Costume College left me  
 with a new
 goal, but I'm very uncertain about fabric.

 I want to make this gown:
 http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/big/marie14a.jpg

 I know that there are other copies of this image on the web, but  
 this was
 the first one I found just now.

 What fabric would you use for this?  It is certainly semi-sheer,  
 more so
 than voile.  Silk chiffon would be too soft, silk organza possibly too
 stiff?  I just can't decide.

 Laurie T.
 Phoenix
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[h-cost] Curtain tape as costume supply item?

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out if some shirring tape, from my stash, would be
useable for costuming.

It is about 7/8 wide, with a single cord about 1/4 from one edge.  When
pulled, the cord forms a consistent gather, not any sort of pleat or smocked
effect.

Does anyone use shirring tape in costuming?  If so, how?

Thanks.

Laurie T.


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Re: [h-cost] Curtain tape as costume supply item?

[Laurie Taylor]

Kimiko,

Thanks.  I knew 'how' to use it, but was not certain about costume
applications.  The bulk issue had not entered my mind and was exactly what I
was looking for.  If there is a costume application for this product, it
needs to be seriously considered against the more traditional techniques.  I
won't just dive in with it head-first. 

It may end up in a donations box.

Thanks.

Laurie



-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Kimiko Small
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 1:02 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curtain tape as costume supply item?

You sew it down along both edges, then pull the string. I used a pleating
tape once, thinking it would make cartridge pleating a skirt easier. It was
easier in a way, but the obvious bulk of the tape made the whole thing
rather unattractive to my eye so I never used such tapes again for skirts.
YMMV

Kimiko





From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com

It is about 7/8 wide, with a single cord about 1/4 from one edge.  When
pulled, the cord forms a consistent gather, not any sort of pleat or smocked
effect.

Does anyone use shirring tape in costuming?  If so, how?


  
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[h-cost] Petersen's Magazines as costume info source

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

I've got two magazine boxes (upright-on-the-shelf type) full of Peterson's
Magazines, late 1800's but missing covers and color plates.  They're
generally in pretty poor condition.  I'd be willing to bet that there are
quite a few surviving copies of Peterson's in much better condition than
these.

I've been debating for years whether to keep these or trash them, or find
someone who'd want them in spite of their condition.  Now I'm considering
going through them and pulling (carefully) any good pages relating to
fashion and trashing the rest.  This idea came out of realizing that there
are probably some scaleable pattern diagrams in some of these that might be
worth salvaging.

So, am I breaking some unwritten law of ephemera preservation if I save the
best parts of these and trash the rest?  Apart from the fashion/costume
content, I can't really see much use for them.  They're not displayable.  

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi Fran,

Well, I just so hate to throw anything out that might have any little tidbit
of historical value. Goes right along with being an incorrigible packrat.
Yes, they're mine. I can do what I want...but it's not easy to toss out
parts!

I too sometimes get sucked into the fiction, not often, but it is
interesting. Mostly I find myself considering whether I could do the little
bits of crochet work that they show, or wondering how I could use the
embroideries. I don't really have time for them, but they intrigue me.

Tonight, flipping through a few issues at random, I ran across the most
exciting thing that I personally have ever found in these. There is a page
of Rick-Rack Work! It's PERIOD! I only learned of rickrack work in the last
year or so, and had no idea when it developed. But if it's period, then I
can use it on a gown and I'm pretty sure I will! It is so cute.

So, more browsing, a bit of scanning perhaps, and then I guess a decision to
make.  Thanks for helping me focus my ideas on this little dilemma.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lavolta Press
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:43 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines

I accidentally deleted the original message but I remember the 
substance. My response is:

1. The magazines are yours. You can do whatever you want with them. Why 
worry about conforming to other people's unwritten rules?

2. Yes, Peterson's is a very commonly found 19th-century magazine and 
yes, you can find complete copies (and bound annual volumes) fairly easily.

3. I try not to read the usually grade B fiction in them but sometimes I 
get sucked into it. There are some stories that revolve around clothing 
and show its importance to period readers in terms of things like 
getting husbands and keeping up the correct social front in reduced 
circumstances. These may interest you.

4. I have a sizable heap of largely gutted _Godey's_ and _Peterson's_ 
and loose pages from them, that someone gave me years ago. Since I would 
rather have good copies (and in some instances do have them), I've 
contemplated just throwing these onto the recycle pile. I almost never 
throw anything away, but probably I should do it once in awhile.

5. Your mileage may vary, do whatever is most convenient for you.

Fran
Lavolta Press
New book on 1820s clothing!
http://www.lavoltapress.com

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[h-cost] Lacing question

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

Getting ready for Costume College and have a last minute issue.  Could have
asked this on the CGW list, but thought the larger group here might give a
larger range of answers/ideas.

What do you use for lacing your various types of corsets and/or stays?  When
I think about going to the local fabric store and buying the cotton cord
that I would normally use as filling in pipings, I just can't see using it
on stays, especially late 18th/early 19th century.  Rattail certainly would
not work either.  What do you use that isn't too bulky or to hard, or too
prone to slipping out of the tie?

Right now, for convenience and in the interest of stash reduction, I'm using
1/8 and 1/4 silk ribbon, leftover from my last round of silk ribbon
embroidery.  It's not very satisfactory, but I could not figure out a good
alternative.

Thanks.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

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Re: [h-cost] Lacing question

[Laurie Taylor]

Marjorie, Maggie, Kathe, Fran and Kimiko,

Please forgive the group reply.  The weekend is flying by too quickly and
there's too much to do before I leave for California Monday morning.

I like the idea of shoe laces or corset laces for corsets, no problem there.
For a pair of pre-Regency/Regency stays, the shoe laces or corset laces
would probably be ok, if I had them on hand.  I think the pattern just
specified cording, and all I could think of was the white cord that many
people use when they need filler for piping.  Just did not like that idea.

I can see the silk ribbon for evening gowns, especially if wider - 1/4 and
no less.  The 1/8 is just too wimpy.  I could also see narrow grosgrain
ribbon, and I think that's what I'll look for to get me through this trip.
Sturdier than the silk ribbon, not as bulky as the plain (piping) cording,
easier to get on short notice than proper corset lacing.

Thanks for the feedback.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lavolta Press
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:51 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lacing question

I use corset laces or really long boot laces.

I've used narrow silk ribbon, the kind sold for ribbon embroidery, for 
lacing evening bodices. But not for corsets.

Fran
Lavolta Press Books on Historic Clothing
http://www.lavoltapress.com



Laurie Taylor wrote:

 
 What do you use for lacing your various types of corsets and/or stays?
When
 I think about going to the local fabric store and buying the cotton cord
 that I would normally use as filling in pipings, I just can't see using it
 on stays, especially late 18th/early 19th century. 

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Re: [h-cost] Lacing question

[Laurie Taylor]

Lynn, 

Thanks.  I'll do that for corsets for sure.  For stays, particularly close
to the Regency style, I'll probably experiment with the grosgrain ribbon.
Basically, I've got some experimenting ahead of me.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Lynn Downward
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 5:59 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lacing question

Laurie, once you are at Costume College, there ares several vendors who sell
corset ties, black or white. You won't have to worry about it any more.
Let's see: Hedgehog Handworks sells them, as does Farthingale. I'm sure
ther's a couple other places that do too (just in case you don't completely
trust the grosgrain).

LynnD

2009/7/25 Käthe Barrows kay...@gmail.com

  I could also see narrow grosgrain
  ribbon, and I think that's what I'll look for to get me through this
 trip.


 And grosgrain ribbon stays tied, which poly-satin ribbon doesn't.  You
 probably already know to cut the ends on a diagonal.

 --
 Carolyn Kayta Barrows
 --
 “The future is already here, it is just unevenly distributed.”   -William
 Gibson
 --
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[h-cost] ARGH!!!! no response needed - just venting frustration

[Laurie Taylor]

ARGH!  Trying to comparison shop for boning!  What a chore!

Laurie T.

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Re: [h-cost] New TT book?

[Laurie Taylor]

It's on their websiteand sounds wonderful!

Laurie T.

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Sharon Collier
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:42 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: [h-cost] New TT book?

Anyone heard about a new book by the ladies who did Tudor Tailor? Pre-sales,
etc?
Sharon C.
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Re: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?

[Laurie Taylor]

Saragrace,

No help here on the fur, but darn, I cannot wait to see the finished
project!

Laurie T.
www.costumeraz.blogspot.com

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:07 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] What kind of fur would you use for this?


I am about to embark on a Arnolfi Wedding dress.  

http://tinyurl.com/creey 

OR

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPublisher
.woa/wa/work?workNumber=NG186

I have 12 yards of the bright green woolit weighs a ton! It looks like
that will just barely squeeze by as enough.  

What kind of fur does it look like to you?  I am pretty sure I can't afford
that much Ermineif that is what it is.

Unless it is REALLY good faux fur, I don't want to use it.  I am almost more
inclined to use a natural color of velvet --thinking rayon/silk

What would you do?

Sg


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Re: [h-cost] Image piracy - Anyone know who this is?

[Laurie Taylor]

Saragrace,

I'm so sorry that such nonsense is happening, though I know it is nothing
new.  The really scary part is the difference in quality and workmanship
between her image and yours.

Laurie

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:06 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image piracy - Anyone know who this is?


Oops - www.ebay.com Ebay Item number : 330311003999
The second picture is a crop of mine:  
http://saragrace.net/images/Elizabeth/Farthingale/images/BumrollProgression.
jpg
Yesterday it had the full image.

Sg

 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:42:50 -0500
 From: cvir...@thibault.org
 To: h-cost...@indra.com
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image piracy - Anyone know who this is?
 
 Saragrace Knauf wrote:
  Anyone know who this is?  She is using photos from various historic
costuming sites (including mine) without permission.  I and several others
have reported her to ebay and she has been extreeemly nasty about it.
 
 Alas, the link or attached example was lost -- could you resend?  (Am 
 now very curious!)
 
 
 --
 
 Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
 
 Rustic vacation cottage for summer rent on the shore of Maine!
 http://www.virtue.to/cottages
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RE: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming

[Laurie Taylor]

Hi,

I've been following this thread with rapt fascination.  I've learned a lot
too.

I teach costume history, an introductory course.  We've decided to expand
our use of films to get the point across about some aspects of costume,
including the issue of period accuracy.  

I need to come up with a list of titles to recommend that our library
acquire for our students to access.  I will, if I can figure out how, go to
the archives and pull a list of movies that have been discussed here, but
would welcome any title suggestions that you might care to make, be they
good or particularly bad, in the costume aspect.

Thanks.

Laurie T.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gail  Scott Finke
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:28 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming

Sharon wrote:

 A Knight's Tale is a great example. I don't know much about the period,
 but most of the costumes seemed okay. Except for the female lead. She
stuck
 out like a sore thumb. I especially remember the hat that looked like
 something from Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm not
sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved the
costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were done
in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole Breakfast at
Tiffany's outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it!

Another fun one is Brother Sun, Sister Moon, the Franco Zeffirelli film
about St. Francis. All sorts of bizarre fabrics used there, combining the
period-like look of the garments with the textures and colors he wanted.

If a story is supposed to be fantasy medieval, renaissance, Victorian, or
just old time then I generally like it. As others have said, it's when
directors or PR people tout the historical accuracy when costumes get on my
nerves. Anyone remember the Kevin Costner film that can't be named? I mean,
the one set in England in Sherwood Forest -- not other Kevin Costner films
that can't be named. They went on and on about the historical accuracy in
that one, and it stunk.

The costumes need to help tell the story, and there are many legitimate ways
to do that. 

What bugs me in a theater setting is when the costumes are amateurish (if
it's a professional theater) or old and moth-eaten. One summer our opera
company rented two sets of costumes that were just horrendous, and the main
problem is that they looked about 30 years old and falling apart. One was
for an opera about the French Revolution, and the company had all the main
characters' costumes made while they rented the costumes for the
aristocrats/chorus. The main costumes, for peasants, were much nicer than
the aristocrats, who looked as if they had definitely fallen on hard times!
But those things happen in theater...

Gail Finke

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RE: [h-cost] Costume history text

[Laurie Taylor]

Sylrog,

I too studied with Prof. Russell, just a very few years before he passed
away.  I love his book and use it as an additional reference in my costume
history class.  I use the book chosen by my department as our primary book,
but the Russell text does so much more to make the connections between what
people wore and why they wore it.  Studying costume history with Prof.
Russell and his book did so much to spark my interest in history in general.

FWIW.

Laurie T.
Phoenix

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:50 PM
To: Historical Costume
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [h-cost] Costume history text

I know we've discussed this before, but not in terms of cost.  I will 
be teaching a costume history class at a community college next 
semester and would like to order textbooks for the students to buy.  
Cost is really a factor at community colleges, so I was wondering if 
any of you could recommend a good reasonably priced text.Has anyone 
used Doug Russell's book before?  He was one of my first costume profs 
and I loved the way he taught.  I have 2 of the books he wrote and am 
tempted to use one of them, as I like it and think it might be less 
expensive than some others, but I thought I'd get your opinions.

Sylrog

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