RE: [h-cost] tippets
You know, now that you mention it, I think most of the colored examples are grisaille. But I'll go through my files this weekend and nail down the image floating in my mind of color. I'll also look for the fluttery ones. Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Robin Netherton Sent: Thu 3/15/2007 10:59 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] tippets On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Schaeffer, Astrida wrote: There -are- examples of tippets in other colors, and some are sure drawn or painted in a truly light and fluttery way that seems to imply delicate fabrics, but more often than not they're white and if you can look closely enough you can see the fur. I'm still collecting tippet images, and I don't think I've ever seen one that could be called light and fluttery. Lots of drapey ones -- draping over arms or knees or hips -- but no fluttery. If you have any examples I'd be very keen on seeing them. The colored ones I know about are mostly from grisaille manuscripts, in which the figures are painted in whites/greys, looking rather like sculpture, with occasional accents in unrelated colors such as pink or pale green. Taken in isolation this might look like pink or green tippets (if the tippets happen to be the thing accented, as they often are) but the arbitrary color choice for the accents becomes apparent if you look at color use throughout the manuscript. I can think of a couple of black tippet images (such as one in the Wenceslas Bible) that are likely black fur, and maybe one reddish-brown that might also be fur. Also some hanging sleeve ornaments that are not band-and-streamer tippets per se but rather chains or bells. Other than that, I'm not recalling anything that might be considered a realistic example of a color tippet, and I'd be happy to see any examples you might have found. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets
It looks like Revival Clothing has interpreted the turned-back, white-fur-lined cuff with its pendant strip as a pinned-on accessory rather than the more accurate short-sleeve dress cuff with dangling tail. I know in this case you used that image to show what you meant, rather than as evidence, but it's hard enough to figure out what's going on when you look at a 14th century artist's interpretation of what a person wore, let alone a modern interpretation of that interpretation. There -are- examples of tippets in other colors, and some are sure drawn or painted in a truly light and fluttery way that seems to imply delicate fabrics, but more often than not they're white and if you can look closely enough you can see the fur. As for purpose,I suspect there's about as much purpose to tippets as there is to hip-hugger bell-bottom jeans-- to look fashionable. ; ) Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Zuzana Kraemerova Sent: Thu 3/15/2007 3:43 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] tippets Thanks to everyone for the advice! When thinking about tippets, I came to another interesting - at leas for me - question - did they have some particular purpose or were they just decoration? I mean now the white, narrow ones that look as a separate accessory (this doesn't mean that they are). Like those: http://www.revivalclothing.com/images/tippet_hero.jpg (sorry I couldn't find any extant picture). Zuzana - Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets
Current scholarship is that they aren't a separate accessory at all-- they're the vestigial long pointy sleeve (morphed over time into a thin streamer) as seen hanging from a short-sleeved overdress. That's why they're so often white (and so often with little black specks)-- that's the ermine lining of the sleeve. Astrida ** Astrida Schaeffer, Assistant Director The Art Gallery University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 College Road Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862-0310 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: (603) 862-2191 ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zuzana Kraemerova Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 12:45 PM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] tippets Hi, does someone know how the tippets used to be attached to the dress? By pins? Or were they sewn-on? http://vieuxchamps.com/persona/enlarged/wg/wpic7.php Thanks, Zuzana - Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets
Zuzana asked: does someone know how the tippets used to be attached to the dress? By pins? Or were they sewn-on? http://vieuxchamps.com/persona/enlarged/wg/wpic7.php Astrida replies: Current scholarship is that they aren't a separate accessory at all-- they're the vestigial long pointy sleeve (morphed over time into a thin streamer) as seen hanging from a short-sleeved overdress. That's why they're so often white (and so often with little black specks)-- that's the ermine lining of the sleeve. Zuzana, Astrida may have given you all the information you need, but if you want to see the current scholarship, you'll find it in a paper I wrote a few years ago: The Tippet: Accessory after the Fact? in Medieval Clothing and Textiles 1, ed. Robin Netherton and Gale Owen-Crocker (Boydell, 2005). If you have trouble getting your hands on this, contact me privately. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
I was just going through some stacked-up e-mail -- I tend to catch up in fits and spurts, so sometimes miss things. Plus I have dial-up, so anything that requires lots of image-heavy downloads gets set aside till I have *time*. Anyway, Susan posted lots of picture links. I haven't looked at all of them but of the ones I did see -- yes, as you indicated, lots of Flemish 15th-16th c. fantasy. I took so many pictures of these sorts of weird dresses in Belgium! In addition to the fact that they're all on religious/historic/symbolic figures, it's also useful to note that you rarely find two that are anywhere near alike, which makes it even more obvious that these aren't meant to represent fashionable wear! The regular clothing (on portraits, and in genre scenes) tends to be cast-of-a-mold with relatively small differences in features. Rule of thumb: The rarer it is, the less likely to be real. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6.gif I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I thought that they were buttons! The white dots are almost certainly buttons. I have no idea why she's all stripey, but from her headgear, I wouldn't lay bets that she's a real person, so I'd withhold judgement on this one without knowong the context. Of course, if she's Italian, there's no telling. Another rule of thumb: It's a bad idea to try to reproduce a costume from an artwork without knowing something about the artwork. Virgin with Saints (Barbara Catherine of Alexandria) http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg Not too weird, these. Catherine's outfit pays lip service to the by-now-required surcote but still is an attempt to make her look within range of the accepted fashion. The Barbara is quite passable but very rich as befits the princess she is; the fur oversleeves might be over the top. Headdress is all symbolic on both. and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink 3 piece suit on the saint in the right panel http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg I think that's meant to be a dress that's hitched up at the waist/hip and bloused over. Still dripping with fantasy/foreign elements. Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two or three ways to do it. again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 normal gowns and that odd thing in the lower left http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg None of these women are normal, though the one at the lower right looks realistic. The one on the throne is a rather straighforward queenly image plus a sword -- I think she's Justice. Oh yes, there it is above her head, the first word in the inscription. As for the four women upholding the coat-of-arms: See those words written on their skirts? Those are labels, so you know what characteristic or attribute they stand for. They are too dark to read as-is, but playing around in a photo editor, I think the upper left one might be Veritas, and the lower left is sage-something. The lower right one is clear: Sobrietas, or Sobriety. Now we know why she has no fantastical elements to her dress! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Hi, Yes i also have a quote somewhere, about the maids in Amsterdam wearing trousers each time they had to pollish the windows. Bjarne - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two or three ways to do it. I've been pondering this sleeve style for a while. It is seen pretty often, and occasionally on non-saints, but... I think there's at least one symbolic element to it, and I'm pretty sure it's the fringe that often shows up. I can't think of a single occasion when that sleeve fringe did not appear on a Jewish/Old Testament figure. Even though the short sleeves worn over a chemise look is realistic, I think that perhaps it shows up in paintings/illuminations/etc a bit more than necessary in a representative fashion sense, as an easy way to display that symbolic fringe. If anyone is interested in that pleated bustle effect style dress, just wait around a few days; that's the style I post about all the freakin' time! =} (Or at least the later variant of it.) If you want to see more pictures of that style, you can wade through the temp files I have online: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/ There's all sorts of other stuff in there too, but I'm too busy/lazy to pick out the bustle ones at the moment. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
For balance? Mainly I don't want a post reveler getting dizzy and hurling more colour onto it. :P And thinking of multi- colours, this reminded me of someone I know who made a man's Landsknecht in various Hawaiian print fabric. Bright colors too. De -Original Message- um, why stop at 4? (more evil grin) you can only see 1/4 of per person, yes? :-D Jerusha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For balance? Mainly I don't want a post reveler getting dizzy and hurling more colour onto it. :P snicker. probably a good thought. And thinking of multi- colours, this reminded me of someone I know who made a man's Landsknecht in various Hawaiian print fabric. Bright colors too. Sounds like something Lord Joel woulh have done . Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Actually the owner of Calontir trim and I was reminded that it was someone else who made it for him. De -Original Message- And thinking of multi- colours, this reminded me of someone I know who made a man's Landsknecht in various Hawaiian print fabric. Bright colors too. Sounds like something Lord Joel woulh have done . Jerusha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Actually the owner of Calontir trim and I was reminded that it was someone else who made it for him. Drix. Hmmm. Could have been Joel, I guess. Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting Chiara Francesca [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg This on has long been my favorite. I have been sketching and searching and sketching these dresses for years hoping to find the right event to make one for. Sigh, and the time. :( Thank you for the new images!!! :) Im with you; I love them! Sure thing. If indeed these are symbolic/allegorical, I'd like to see the gowns that they were derived from. We all know (thanks to Robin) that the later Sideless Surcoats are largely symbolic, and how they differ from *real* Sideless Surcoats. If this is allegorical garb, I want to find the progenetor! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
I'm not sure I understand the tree. Is the woman standing the matriarch of the family and the couple sitting at the bottom of the drawing brother and sister or are they the parents and the woman standing the featured descendent? Not as wild as the Swabian. I like the blue dress on the woman just above and to the right of the standing woman. She has an interesting fan. Then again the blue and red to the lower left of the woman's black sleeves are interesting. Thank you for the picture. De -Original Message- http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg This on has long been my favorite. I have been sketching and searching and sketching these dresses for years hoping to find the right event to make one for. Sigh, and the time. :( Thank you for the new images!!! :) Chiara ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm not sure I understand the tree. Is the woman standing the matriarch of the family and the couple sitting at the bottom of the drawing brother and sister or are they the parents and the woman standing the featured descendent? The tree? *giggle* I've never even tried to figure out the tree! I need to see if I can print a copy large enough to read the names -- then it might work. Not as wild as the Swabian. I suppose! :-) The Swabians do like their beads/pearls, don't they! There's a painting by Part that is very similar I thought that it was Myra that had the whole thing, but she does have some of the pieces parts here http://myra.hem.nu/costume/CostumeGallery/Embroidery_1490/Embroidery_1490.htm Found it! http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.encyclop.b/b003177.htm I like the blue dress on the woman just above and to the right of the standing woman. She has an interesting fan. Then again the blue and red to the lower left of the woman's black sleeves are interesting. I love these things. I forget now how many leaves there were originally, I know that at least one of them was never inked in -- but they are a *wealth* of detail! Thank you for the picture. Hey, as packrat of interesting (but not always useful) information, I feel it's part of my duty to pass it along! :-D Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
I guess they could be buttons but the top of the red seems to be wider then the other panels and it almost looks like there are dots on the other side of the red at the bust. I was thinking that it was similar in treatment to the birth of the virgin dress with the gold whatchamagiggers running down the seams. I may make this (insert evil grin) as I am trying to get a period name passed and so far the Italian name hasn't run into problems. So maybe I am destined to have a Italian persona in SCA. :\ And I need a 14th century outfit because that is what the majority of the people are around here so for local events I want to blend in some. Now what four colors shall I uses (bwahahahah) De -Original Message- I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I thought that they were buttons! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I guess they could be buttons but the top of the red seems to be wider then the other panels and it almost looks like there are dots on the other side of the red at the bust. I was thinking that it was similar in treatment to the birth of the virgin dress with the gold whatchamagiggers running down the seams. If we only knew someone who was going to go see Castle Roncolo/ Runkelstein -- maybe we could get them to take some better pictures! I want a larger picture of this woman! I may make this (insert evil grin) as I am trying to get a period name passed and so far the Italian name hasn't run into problems. So maybe I am destined to have a Italian persona in SCA. :\ And I need a 14th century outfit because that is what the majority of the people are around here so for local events I want to blend in some. Now what four colors shall I uses (bwahahahah) um, why stop at 4? (more evil grin) you can only see 1/4 of per person, yes? :-D Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I guess they could be buttons but the top of the red seems to be wider then the other panels and it almost looks like there are dots on the other side of the red at the bust. I was thinking that it was similar in treatment to the birth of the virgin dress with the gold whatchamagiggers running down the seams. Another thought ... Could be. Think though of any number of Mundane princess-seam dresses -- the front panel is cut on the fold so it's twice as wide as all the others! Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
I looked at the images and don't know what tippets are. Please explain. I googled it and found sites with shawls and scarves. What in the image is a tippet? - Original Message - From: Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Costume List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco) Hey Robin! From the SCA garb list ... Can I forward this to the H-Costume list where Robin Netherton hangs out? She's way interested in tippets. Jerusha Sure. Please tell her it was pointed out by John Dillion on the Medieval Religion List. I'm sure she'll recognise his name. Hrothny A fresco on the wall of the hexagonal baptistery of San Giovanni Battista (said to be originally ninth-cent., with fifteenth- and sixteenth-century frescoes) showing the marriage of St. Catherine of Sienna. http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 === It's Italian, but dig those tippets! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
Thanks. The search results I got didn't fit into the images. I saw the sleeve drapes and didn't know what they were called. I've been learning quite a bit from the discussion boards and costume constructions. - Original Message - From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco) Quoting Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I looked at the images and don't know what tippets are. Please explain. I googled it and found sites with shawls and scarves. What in the image is a tippet? See those streamers coming from her upper arm? Those are tippets. If you do a google *image* search [put tippets in your search box, get your results, and then click on the image link above the search box] you'll get a page that shows some other gowns with tippets -- including this paperdoll site http://www.gallimauphry.com/PD/gawain/gawain.html and this Ready-To-Wear-Garb site http://www.revivalclothing.com/catpages/cat_womenssilkwardrobe.htm her tippets are white, and look like an add-on, but Robin's research indicates that this probably isn't the case. Susan http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 === It's Italian, but dig those tippets! - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ...
And while we're talking Italian Tippets . :-) I've got another picture for you, Robin. I just had to get it scanned -- and now seemed like a good time to do it! http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/milano_ExpulsionJoachim150.jpg these women are spectators, so I don't know how much the Special Garb rule applies here, but . The Italian GFD frequently has this sort of inverted scoop neckline -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd call it! some frescos from the Runklestein Castle http://www.myblog.de/costumes/page/86416 although it's not as evident on those gowns -- and think of those two with the funny panel down the front http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giottino/pieta.jpg http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giovanni/milano/birth.jpg both of whom have that others include http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/italian_MussacchioPl46.jpg http://tinyurl.com/dlmqd http://tinyurl.com/b2te7 and *she* has an off-center front-opening gown! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
-Original Message- http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/milano_ExpulsionJoachim150.jpg (Susan) these women are spectators, so I don't know how much the Special Garb rule applies here, but . The Italian GFD frequently has this sort of inverted scoop neckline -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd call it! De - Is that trim on the hem of the dress or an underdress with a short overdress. Left shoulder, is that a cloak which the woman has pulled around to the right and is using it to cradle the lamb? I think that the bust may be a factor in the arching. (Susan)-- and think of those two with the funny panel down the front http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giottino/pieta.jpg http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giovanni/milano/birth.jpg both of whom have that De- I can not tell real well but this looks like this dress has a red front panel with striped material for the rest of the dress. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6 .gif ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -Original Message- http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/milano_ExpulsionJoachim150.jpg (Susan) these women are spectators, so I don't know how much the Special Garb rule applies here, but . The Italian GFD frequently has this sort of inverted scoop neckline -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd call it! De - Is that trim on the hem of the dress or an underdress with a short overdress. Left shoulder, is that a cloak which the woman has pulled around to the right and is using it to cradle the lamb? I think that the bust may be a factor in the arching. I have *no* clue. IIRC, there are a couple of short overdresses on some of the painted birthing trays. They definately have some sort of scarf over their arms and under the lambs -- but that striped fabric on the back of her sleeve just doesn't fit. If it was a cloak, seems like it should not follow her neckline like it does. The right shoulders of all the women are dark like maybe there is a cloak over that shoulder. Whatever the striped fabric is, it seen on the underdress, the scarf under the lambs, and on the back of her left arm. I sure would like to see what other frescoes there are at the Runuccini Chapel in the Sacristy somewhere in Florence! One of the other ladies in the birth painting (URL below) also has on a shorter overdress with a striped underdress. (Susan)-- and think of those two with the funny panel down the front http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giottino/pieta.jpg http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giovanni/milano/birth.jpg both of whom have that De- I can not tell real well but this looks like this dress has a red front panel with striped material for the rest of the dress. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6 .gif Isn't that one just wild! It almost looks like it could be a 10-gore gown with each gore a different color! -- and the *only* reason that I make that outlandish statement, is that the stripes appear wider around her hips than they do her neckline. Yep, Italian wierdness. It's not as d as some of the Flemish stuff that you run across though! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
I hadn't thought of gores but I think you may be on to something here. This would solve some peoples problems with not having enough fabric of one color. :) I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I haven't seen the weird flemish stuff. Got pictures? :) De -Original Message- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6 .gif Isn't that one just wild! It almost looks like it could be a 10-gore gown with each gore a different color! -- and the *only* reason that I make that outlandish statement, is that the stripes appear wider around her hips than they do her neckline. Yep, Italian wierdness. It's not as d as some of the Flemish stuff that you run across though! Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I hadn't thought of gores but I think you may be on to something here. This would solve some peoples problems with not having enough fabric of one color. :) It would be a hoot to do -- and you could carry that picture around with you and say -- see! here it is -- wierd Italian garb! :-) I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I thought that they were buttons! I haven't seen the weird flemish stuff. Got pictures? :) Of course! Think about Anne of Cleves dress. If all you knew was English Tudor, you'd swear that was a Fantasy/Allegorical gown. One thing that you see quite a bit in Flemish garb -- that may very well be allegorical is the overbodice -- you know like that thing that the Victorians thought was a part of a bliaut? Take the Genealogies of the Kings of Portugal -- symbolic in all probability, but the elements show up a *lot* http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/620/62082_2.jpg my favorite. This was on the cover of the Museum Catalog from the Getty on Flemish Illuminations. Dig the lady in the powder blue dress with overbodice a little over halfway down on the right of the image. http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_04c_DomFernandoDetail.jpg and on this folio http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/240/24052_2.jpg and detail http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_05starD_QualityDetail2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/122/12252_2.jpg Virgin with Saints (Barbara Catherine of Alexandria) http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg yet another saint -- left panel of triptych http://tinyurl.com/a2z4t and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink 3 piece suit on the saint in the right panel http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 normal gowns and that odd thing in the lower left http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg Have I overloaded your Wierd Meter yet? :-D Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg This on has long been my favorite. I have been sketching and searching and sketching these dresses for years hoping to find the right event to make one for. Sigh, and the time. :( Thank you for the new images!!! :) Chiara - Original Message - From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:01 PM Subject: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I hadn't thought of gores but I think you may be on to something here. This would solve some peoples problems with not having enough fabric of one color. :) It would be a hoot to do -- and you could carry that picture around with you and say -- see! here it is -- wierd Italian garb! :-) I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I thought that they were buttons! I haven't seen the weird flemish stuff. Got pictures? :) Of course! Think about Anne of Cleves dress. If all you knew was English Tudor, you'd swear that was a Fantasy/Allegorical gown. One thing that you see quite a bit in Flemish garb -- that may very well be allegorical is the overbodice -- you know like that thing that the Victorians thought was a part of a bliaut? Take the Genealogies of the Kings of Portugal -- symbolic in all probability, but the elements show up a *lot* http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/620/62082_2.jpg my favorite. This was on the cover of the Museum Catalog from the Getty on Flemish Illuminations. Dig the lady in the powder blue dress with overbodice a little over halfway down on the right of the image. http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_04c_DomFernandoDetail.jpg and on this folio http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/240/24052_2.jpg and detail http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_05starD_QualityDetail2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/122/12252_2.jpg Virgin with Saints (Barbara Catherine of Alexandria) http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg yet another saint -- left panel of triptych http://tinyurl.com/a2z4t and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink 3 piece suit on the saint in the right panel http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 normal gowns and that odd thing in the lower left http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg Have I overloaded your Wierd Meter yet? :-D Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 The lady here has a crown, which is one of CofA's attributes, but there's no sword or wheel, so it remains uncertain. Actually there is a wheel, at her feet (between her and the Madonna) it's that brown object with the spikes;) I think it's depicting the wheel edge on. So It's CoA. Anyway, if it's a deliberate archaism, the costume is modeled after earlier artworks (and probably significantly changed in details). However, I wouldn't be surprised if this is 14th c., and St. Catherine of Alexandria, re-attributed to Catherine of Siena. Which means it's just saint's costume and Italian, and could be anywhere on the continuum of real -- fanciful! Yup:) The faces remind me a lot of the other 14thC Italian art, but it could also have been altered at some stage? Anyone have any idea what the blue-black zigzag shapes on her sleeve are (the one furthest from us and held up for the ring)? It's a very cool image and fits in with what I have seen of the 14thC Italian stuff. By that I mean: it's weird and all kinds of pretty;) michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 16/02/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, michaela wrote: http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 The lady here has a crown, which is one of CofA's attributes, but there's no sword or wheel, so it remains uncertain. Actually there is a wheel, at her feet (between her and the Madonna) it's that brown object with the spikes;) I think it's depicting the wheel edge on. Oh by golly, that is a wheel. I think my brain said pillow with fringe or something and then I stopped looking at it, before I started thinking where's the wheel? Now, if it had been ROUND... Yup:) The faces remind me a lot of the other 14thC Italian art, but it could also have been altered at some stage? Anyone have any idea what the blue-black zigzag shapes on her sleeve are (the one furthest from us and held up for the ring)? The underlayer beneath decaying paint? Seriously, I have no clue. It's a very cool image and fits in with what I have seen of the 14thC Italian stuff. By that I mean: it's weird and all kinds of pretty;) That's a really good way of putting it! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Susan Farmer wrote: Hey Robin! Thanks for thinking of me! A fresco on the wall of the hexagonal baptistery of San Giovanni Battista (said to be originally ninth-cent., with fifteenth- and sixteenth-century frescoes) showing the marriage of St. Catherine of Sienna. http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 === It's Italian, but dig those tippets! I'm still reeling from the off-the-shoulder neckline ... The tippets are definitely fun. The Italians did some really bizarre things in art at this time. Note that if this is really Catherine of Siena, the costume is deliberately archaic; Catherine of Siena died in 1380 and was not canonized till 1461. Howver, the Mystic Marriage scene shows up in art at least as early as 1340, in depictions of St. Catherine of Alexandria, well-established as a bride of Christ. I've heard that this attribution of the Mystic Marriage scene was a confusion with Catherine of Siena, but the earlier dates of the art seem to contradict that statement. In fact, every piece of art I know with the Mystic Marriage scene is presumed to show Catherine of Alexandria. So I don't know why some references insist that it's supposed to be Catherine of Siena. The lady here has a crown, which is one of CofA's attributes, but there's no sword or wheel, so it remains uncertain. However, it looks a lot more like CofA than CofS. CofS is typically shown with a lily, sometimes a heart and/or a book, and/or a crown of thorns, none of which are here. More important, CofS is usually shown in Dominican habit, and CofA in fashionable royal dress, and this is a lot closer to the latter. Anyway, if it's a deliberate archaism, the costume is modeled after earlier artworks (and probably significantly changed in details). However, I wouldn't be surprised if this is 14th c., and St. Catherine of Alexandria, re-attributed to Catherine of Siena. Which means it's just saint's costume and Italian, and could be anywhere on the continuum of real -- fanciful! I notice the stripes on the red tippets, which could be meant to indicate fur piecing... or could just be stripes, which I've never seen on tippets, but hey, it's Italian. The little bit of flip side we see on the left tippet shows an intriguing combination of white and red, which might mean that these are not separate-material band-and-streamer tippets, but sleeve extensions (pendant sleeves) from the white dress, with a red-striped or fur lining. The wide over-the-hand cuffs are quite intriguing, and might be a clue that we're dealing with a late-15th or 16th c. version of archaic dress, with mix-and-match features. But I would have to see other local images of dress to know whether this is a regionalism. I know very very little about Italian variants. They make my head ache. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tippets
I've run into something similar, recently, with a current re-using of the
word wimple to describe a knitted thing ranging from a simple, oversized
tube that functions a bit like the turtlenecked part on a turtleneck sweater
(except that you can pull it up over your head, leaving your face exposed,
for warmth), or a hooded cowl, built similarly to a medieval hood with cowl
(although missing the liripipe). It always causes this momentary huh?
with me, because I'm most familiar with the word as used to refer to the
woven/linen medieval women's item frequently paired with a veil. ;o)
--sue
- Original Message -
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets
I have found very little info so far on tippets and how they were made.
I have encountered things called tippets in several different centuries.
I
had to read a couple of sentences to realize you were talking SCA-period
tippets, instead of, say, Georgian ones.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] Tippets / wimples
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Jean Waddie wrote: I recently had to straighten out a confusion, because Early Medieval (Viking/Saxon/Norman) re-enactors generally use the word wimple for a single piece headcovering that wraps and drapes round head and shoulders, while 14th/15th century types use it for the specific item covering the neck, worn with a separate veil. Someone asked for instructions for one, and got instructions for the other, which made no sense to them at all! I bumped into this very difference when editing an article by my colleague, Gale Owen-Crocker, who works on Anglo-Saxon dress. My experience is mostly in 14th c. We used the word differently, just as you descibed, and went round and round for a while till we sorted it out. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tippets
Robin Netherton has written quite an explanation of tippets. The article is in the first Journal of Medieval Clothing and Textiles. Information there may help you in your efforts to produce your own. The article is scholarly, and not a how-to-make type. Of course... you might have already read it. ; Good Luck . Hope this helps. Mari / Bridgette On 10/8/05, Kahlara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have found very little info so far on tippets and how they were made. A couple of sources I found said it was a strip of white linen tied above the elbow. Others said it was sewn on. Yet other things I have seen and read make it seem like a scaled down version of the wide belled sleeves and made from the same fabric as the surcotte. Anyone ever looked into this? They had to have been sewn on somehow, or else how would you prevent them from sliding down the arm? I saw one version at an SCA event that had them like a lining on a cuff and then turned up to show the contrasting fabric. Does anyone know if there is any extant examples that are clear on the construction? Or any resources that may be specific on the construction. From what I have seen, the SCA example I saw was not accurate. Annette M - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tippets
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Kahlara wrote: I have found very little info so far on tippets and how they were made. As Mari noted, tippets are an interest of mine, and I have put essentially everything I know about them into an article that appeared in the first volume of _Medieval Clothing Textiles_ (issued spring 2005), eds. Gale Owen-Crocker and myself. For the long answer, I'd suggest you borrow or ILL it; if you can't get a copy easily, e-mail me directly and we'll work something out. A couple of sources I found said it was a strip of white linen tied above the elbow. Others said it was sewn on. Short answer: Most of the standard sources are almost certainly wrong. The most important conclusions (I'll leave the detailed analysis and evidence to the article): -- The tippets that look like a band around the upper arm with a hanging streamer (which is what you seem to be asking about) were almost certainly *not* separate wardrobe items, but rather decorative cuffs on short-sleeved overgowns, made as part and parcel of the garment. -- I can find no suggestion in any source that the bands/streamers were linen, silk, or other fabric. There is substantial circumstantial evidence that the depictions were meant to indicate fur -- in fact, an extension of the (almost always white) fur lining typically used on these gowns. Yet other things I have seen and read make it seem like a scaled down version of the wide belled sleeves and made from the same fabric as the surcotte. This sounds like a description of certain other decorative sleeve endings from near to the same time period. A thorough look at the visual sources shows that sleeve endings pass through a sequence of stages, the band-and-streamer tippet being only one style in that sequence. Some modern costumers use the term tippet to refer to several different types of hanging sleeve decorations, and then distinguish them by various terms such as integral tippets or banded tippets or whatever -- though I have seen a lot of inconsistency in the modern use of such terms, and there is no parallel distinction in the (highly fluid and imprecise) terminology of the period. The word tippet was used for a variety of things, including hood tails. Does anyone know if there is any extant examples that are clear on the construction? Or any resources that may be specific on the construction. There are (to my knowledge) no extant tippets. There are plentiful visual sources of varying quality, rare written references to the style, and (again to my knowledge) absolutely no line-item entries in inventories, wills, shop lists, etc. As near as I can tell, they are never referred to as separate items, only as a feature of a particular style of garment. I saw one version at an SCA event that had them like a lining on a cuff and then turned up to show the contrasting fabric. ... From what I have seen, the SCA example I saw was not accurate. It was probably more accurate than most of the other examples you may have seen, as I suspect the band-and-streamer style developed as a formalized version of the visual impression created by turning up a fur-lined short sleeve with a hanging extension, which was the sleeve style immediately preceding the appearance of the tippet. But *that* is my own speculation. For the long version, I refer you to the article. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tippets
Is it possible that since sleeves were seamed on the sides and usually not underneath that the sleeve seams are open from wrist to lower bicep. Top of forearm sleeve is removed leaving the lower forearm sleeve. Role once leaving the lining exposed? De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tippets
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, otsisto wrote: Is it possible that since sleeves were seamed on the sides and usually not underneath that the sleeve seams are open from wrist to lower bicep. Top of forearm sleeve is removed leaving the lower forearm sleeve. Opening a long sleeve halfway up is one of several ways to achieve a hanging-flap extension on a short sleeve, and you see variations on this in the early 15th c. That technique is easy to formalize into a squared-off pendant; there are examples of that style in Franco-Flemish mss of about 1415-1440, including the Tres Riches Heures and the various illustrated Bocaccio manuscripts. However, the short-sleeve extensions you see most often in early-to-mid 14th c. art seem to have developed not directly from opening a long sleeve, but from a different direction. Coming into the century, you start with overgown sleeves that are slightly shorter and wider than the tight undergown sleeves. Over time, you can see the overgown sleeve shorten further; only then does it develop a hanging point off the bottom (probably originally as an artifact of the rectalinear cutting method). Then the piont lengthens into a pendant, growing longer over time into its own design element. The fur lining is visible on the inside of the hanging bit. The result is a half-length sleeve (to the bend of the elbow) with a narrow hanging piece that is a continuation of the sleeve along the back, but shows a fur surface from the front view (the exposed lining) It's important to note that other things were happening with the construction of long (undergown) sleeves in this period, specifically the development of the set-in sleeve in the 1330s, which enabled the rotation of the sleeve seam from underneath to the outside, and then the fitting of the long sleeves all the way up (often with buttons) instead of just at the lower forearm. So the opened up long sleeve you describe could probably not have occurred during the earlier part of the development in this century, when the typical construction method was a gusseted sleeve with a seam along the bottom. This had all changed by the early 1400s. Role once leaving the lining exposed? I can't recall seeing the rolling done on long sleeves that have been opened halfway up (that would be early 1400s, and tippets were outdated by then). However, going back to the period of 1350-1380, in which tippets developed from pendent sleeves: Once you have the fur-lined pendent sleeve, it's a reasonable thing to flip the bottom of the sleeve back to form a cuff, showing off the fur lining. This casual alteration leaves the pendant hanging a bit awkwardly and it would have been hard to maintain, but the visual impact is distinct -- a fur band around the middle of the upper arm (not down near the elbow) and a fur hanging piece. This is what I think led to the formalization of the fur band-and-streamer style, which would have been cut and sewn in that shape. --Robin sleeve addict ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tippets
Hi Robin-- How does one go about subscribing to Medieval Clothing Textiles ? Dame Catriona MacDuff / Monica Spence -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:18 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Kahlara wrote: I have found very little info so far on tippets and how they were made. As Mari noted, tippets are an interest of mine, and I have put essentially everything I know about them into an article that appeared in the first volume of _Medieval Clothing Textiles_ (issued spring 2005), eds. Gale Owen-Crocker and myself. For the long answer, I'd suggest you borrow or ILL it; if you can't get a copy easily, e-mail me directly and we'll work something out. A couple of sources I found said it was a strip of white linen tied above the elbow. Others said it was sewn on. Short answer: Most of the standard sources are almost certainly wrong. The most important conclusions (I'll leave the detailed analysis and evidence to the article): -- The tippets that look like a band around the upper arm with a hanging streamer (which is what you seem to be asking about) were almost certainly *not* separate wardrobe items, but rather decorative cuffs on short-sleeved overgowns, made as part and parcel of the garment. -- I can find no suggestion in any source that the bands/streamers were linen, silk, or other fabric. There is substantial circumstantial evidence that the depictions were meant to indicate fur -- in fact, an extension of the (almost always white) fur lining typically used on these gowns. Yet other things I have seen and read make it seem like a scaled down version of the wide belled sleeves and made from the same fabric as the surcotte. This sounds like a description of certain other decorative sleeve endings from near to the same time period. A thorough look at the visual sources shows that sleeve endings pass through a sequence of stages, the band-and-streamer tippet being only one style in that sequence. Some modern costumers use the term tippet to refer to several different types of hanging sleeve decorations, and then distinguish them by various terms such as integral tippets or banded tippets or whatever -- though I have seen a lot of inconsistency in the modern use of such terms, and there is no parallel distinction in the (highly fluid and imprecise) terminology of the period. The word tippet was used for a variety of things, including hood tails. Does anyone know if there is any extant examples that are clear on the construction? Or any resources that may be specific on the construction. There are (to my knowledge) no extant tippets. There are plentiful visual sources of varying quality, rare written references to the style, and (again to my knowledge) absolutely no line-item entries in inventories, wills, shop lists, etc. As near as I can tell, they are never referred to as separate items, only as a feature of a particular style of garment. I saw one version at an SCA event that had them like a lining on a cuff and then turned up to show the contrasting fabric. ... From what I have seen, the SCA example I saw was not accurate. It was probably more accurate than most of the other examples you may have seen, as I suspect the band-and-streamer style developed as a formalized version of the visual impression created by turning up a fur-lined short sleeve with a hanging extension, which was the sleeve style immediately preceding the appearance of the tippet. But *that* is my own speculation. For the long version, I refer you to the article. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tippets
Thanks! I'll check it out. Catriona/Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:22 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tippets On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, monica spence wrote: How does one go about subscribing to Medieval Clothing Textiles ? It's an annual journal published in book form. It's assumed that most subscribers will be libraries that will want to assemble a complete set, though I suppose that there would be some way for individuals to subscribe as well. Most people, though, will want to buy individual volumes based on their interest in specific papers included. The papers in each volume vary greatly by topic, period, and discipline. It's our goal to have a broad range in each volume, representing early medieval up through early modern (that's the preferred term now for Elizabethan ;-) ), and a variety of approaches: art, literature, documentary studies, archaeology, trade/economics, and experimental reconstruction. The papers are peer-reviewed and academic in nature, not focused on the how-tos of costuming, though we believe that costumers and re-enactors who are interested in the historic aspects of their work will find many of the papers of use. (I do encourage people to think of the footnotes as good starting points for sources for further research in each of the topics addressed; even if the focus of a particular paper is highly specific, the footnotes will likely provide a far broader introduction to the scholarly literature on that topic.) You can see contents for Volume 1 here: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM Volume 2 is here: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832038.HTM Depending on when you order, you can sometimes find good prices at Amazon or BN. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
