[h-cost] Fwd: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 532
Her husband wasn't disintered in sex-he was incapable of it. And once his problem had been fixed their first born apparently suffered from progeria, so maybe he shouldn't have had kids. Note: forwarded message attached. Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Marie Antoinette
And she wasn't producing male heirs one after the other. Not her fault, but the French just couldn't understand a King that was faithful to his wife as Louis XVI. And a king that wasn't that interested in sex was something nearly impossible at the time, especially to the French, who were very used to Kings bedhopping--it was almost expected. Her husband wasn't disintered in sex-he was incapable of it. And once his problem had been fixed their first born apparently suffered from progeria, so maybe he shouldn't have had kids Carol Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] saris for Victorian dress
According to one of my favorite books, in the year 1700 Indian silk and chintz (called chints) were banned from the English market because they were hurting domestic manufacturers. I don't think that means Indian fabrics were unheard of in the following century, or that they died out after the Regency period.. Carol Mitchell Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Response to conditions in Coastal Areas
Hi Penny and Susan, While Bjarne's comments were awkward, I read it as his expressing surprise, learning about the diversity of people in America. The comments about Bush were not necessary, although there has been criticism with the slowness of the response. I think it always will sting when someone from a different country criticizes something about another. That there were people who did not have means to evacuate is tragic. Others decided to ride out the storm. I lived in Metarie, Louisiana (just west of New Orleans) when Camille came through. We boarded up the house and left, and fortunately our neighborhood was fine and we were back in a day. I find Penny's historic information interesting, the descriptions of the old houses are interesting and I hope to be able to enjoy the surviving historic buildings. I would like to ask listmembers to keep some things on private e-mail, however, and not argue (or discuss) non-historic, non-costume things! Costume content: It was in New Orleans that I first saw a lady in a lovely hoop-skirted gown (I think she was a tourguide). Also it was in Jackson Square that I first saw a hippie in person. :-) -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies)
Carolyn said, Berkeley, CA, and the 1960s. You see aging Hippies, and ones whose parents were barely born in the 1960s, on the streets in Berkeley, CA, even today. I have an ageing hippie next door who just turned 40. :-) Do you think, though, that the hippie styles in Berkeley are only due to the area, or because kids like the style again? Maybe a bit of both? I agree, though that the hippie look says Berkeley or Haight Ashbury. (Is that in Berkeley?) Or Woodstock, which is not close at all. :-) Goth styles are all over the place, particularly at night in cities. Or game conventions where they play Vampire. Hoopskirts evoke many places in the south east US - New Orleans, Atlanta, Mobile. I was thinking of the style that defines a specific city or area - black white pilgrim/puritan is Massachussets and not anywhere else. Except, of course, Dutch paintings. Bustle gowns make me think of the midwest, I suppose due to the amount of growth during that era and I've seen a few houses that have them in their collection. But those era houses are all over the place. And to extend this discussion to the rest of the world, late 1500s/early 1600s is London due to Elizabeth. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies)
Jordana said, On the topic of the south and hoop skirts Were the hoop skirts popular later in the south then the north? I mean, our (ok, mine and I am a typical yankee) picture of THE SOUTH is alweays with ladies in hoops, but I would assume that the north had just as many ladies wearing hoops at the same time. Perhaps we have Scarlett O'Hara to thank for the hoopskirts, especially the barer evening dress worn at the picnic. :-) The American Civil War marked a great change for the south, and therefore an era greatly identified with the region. When I think of the real daytime wear, the buttoned up hooped gowns in the sepia toned portraits, I think of Gettysburg, PA. That's probably because it's near me and I've done reenactments there, so it's strictly personal. But the fluffy pastel colored ballgowns - that's the south. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] regional crinoline fashions
I was looking at the way certain eras of fashion are associated with an area, which is different than what people were actually wearing. It's not the reality, it's what we perceive based on movies, popular culture, etc. Hippies were everywhere, but now identified with Berkeley. Black hats with buckles on them were not the fashion at Plymouth, Mass, but they're all over the souvenir shops. I'm imagining a what city is this sort of thing based on the historic costume icons. -Carol I disagree. For every extant pastel colored ballgown *documented* to the South, I can show you one documented to the North, or the Midwest, or the West, or Canada, or Europe. And I can do the same for every buttoned up dress documented to the North or any other region of the country. There are some regional differences in style, but they are minor elements of the overall fashion and stem more frequently from local customs and availability than a if this is pale pink it must be Mississippi trend. One of the most stunning original dresses I've seen is in the collection of the Cincinnati Art Museum: a bright sapphire blue silk taffeta woven a disposition, originally from Gettysburg, PA. Carolann Schmitt, Life-long Gettysburgian [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.genteelarts.com Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] making vs buying clothes
Fran wrote, 1950s dressmaking manuals told women they could make clothes that would look just like RTW, so they didn't have to admit they home sewed. I worked in a clothing store in the early 1980s (got to look at a lot of ready-made), and also took sewing/tailoring/design classes in college. The clothing we made was far better quality than most of the ready-to-wear available. I would still hear You made that? I thought you bought it!, in the sense that people expected home-made to look bad. When in fact, because we were learning how to fit, we could see that the self-sewn clothing looked a lot better! Also by then I found that home sewing was more expensive than store-bought just for the materials. But I would have the fit and quality of clothing that was otherwise unavailable to me. This is also apparent for reenactment clothing. In eras of fitted clothing, some items that are sold off-the-rack at events do not look as good as something custom-made (whether by one's self or someone else). -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing
It's always seemed to me that the SCA was there first, as an ongoing amateur reenactment organization. At least first in the US. Do you know what influence it's had on the formation of other reenactment groups, such as American Civil War, and American Revolution? I believe the Markland Medieval Mercenary Militia was formed in 1966 to reenact the battle of Hastings (1066). They began at the university of Maryland and eventually they and the SCA became acquainted. Markland has been going as a separate organization since it began. Likewise, American Civil War reenactment probably got popular for its centennial, in the 1960s. I had heard that veterans and enthusiasts got together before then. There are some Revolutionary War uniforms in collections that were made later for commemorations, perhaps 1876? While not necessarily reenactments, people were dressing up. I think the SCA influenced dressing up (and costume competitions) at science fiction and fantasy conventions, and also Live Action Role Playing (LARP). But the reenactment of American events grew on their own. Many of these events are held on or near property where the actual events occurred, and there is usually 21stC public visiting. This encouraged the idea of events as educational. Most SCA events are private - halls, parks and school property is rented for their use. American Revolution or Civil War groups will have private events, and generally each unit will have a meeting or party once or twice a year. My impression is that American Revolution or Civil War reenactment came to the west coast later, so the SCA was first in that area. But in the east it was already going on. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing
Fran wrote, It's interesting that these also started in that mid-1960s period, whether there was any influence from the SCA or not. A sign of the times, then - the beginning of more activity in hobbies that are intense and not mainstream, yet they gained a good number of participants. True, but I was talking about the modern reenactment movement rather than, say, Victorian costume balls. I see the battle reenactments as being influenced by those, however, more than they were by the SCA. Most SCA events are private - halls, parks and school property is rented for their use. I wouldn't quite call that private . . . not like, say, a Victorian costume ball, or a modern party, where only friends are invited. I'd call it organizational. Anyone can join the SCA as far as I know. It used to be possible to attend events without being a member, but I don't know if that's still true. Private in the sense that everyone there is in costume as a participant. While people don't need to pay their dues to the SCA in order to attend, a requirement is that they wear an attempt at period costume. Many battle reenactments have spectators/visitors who are not costumed participants, and I think of those as public. With vintage dances, the ones I know of are advertised - anyone may attend. Often they are costume admired but not required, and some dancers will attend in 21stC suit and tie or dress. Some dance enthusiasts will throw a party that is truly private, as you describe, but then I don't think it would be considered reenactment at that point. I'm not sure of your meaning of Victorian costume balls - is it those held in the 19th century, or vintage dances now? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] vintage costume
Does anyone know how to post to the vintage mailing list at indra.com? When I tried to post a reminder about this weekend's vintage show in Elgin, IL, I got an error message. Does the list still exist? Thanks Carol Mitchell Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua
Does anyone know of an available source that diagrams a woman's dress from this period? (preferably online, but I'll take what I can get) I'm looking for a basic diagram of something like this: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/09/euwb/hob_1991.6.1a,b.htm Someone diagrammed this gown! She was a curator at the Met at the time, but was at another museum at the time of the presentation. At the Costume Society of America meeting held in Williamsburg (1999?) it was one of the presentations. The curator was able to figure out the exact layout of the gown on the yardage because of the large size motifs of the bizarre silk. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm trying to remember if the layout was given on a handout, or does anyone remember the name of the lady who did the research? That might help Dawn track down the diagram. I do remember that it was mostly straight cuts, not a lot of curves, and no significant wasted fabric. You probably know this already, but wear it over stays! Early 18thC stays are a lot straighter than the 3rd 4th quarters. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] what would you do with 14 yards of wool?
It definitely sounds like a good weight for a gown, any time any place. :-) Embellishement can turn it into a higher class. There's that wool mantua at the Met with the metallic embroidery. Lightweight wool is so wonderful for spring or fall outdoor events. It really depends on what you like to do as far as historic activities. It sounds lightweight enough for hoops, for mid-19th century. You didn't mention the width, but depending on the style/period you may be able to make more than one gown. For the second (or third) gown, you could overdye it a different shade. I once discovered, though, that a piece of wool was saturated with the color and would not take any more dye. After using color remover on it, it dyed perfectly. I do like the idea of matching gowns for girls, or you could make gowns for different time periods (if you don't want multiples in the same color). I got some wool like this when a local fabric store went out of business. It's a challis weight. At the moment it's packed away, ripening. :-) -Carol I've got 14 yards of plain medium-dark green (somewhere between emerald and forest) wool. It's lovely and soft and about t-shirt weight. I thought I might make cloaks out of it, but it seems a little light. What would you do? Any time, any place... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: what would you do with 14 yards of wool?
Hosen Marc With 14 yards? You must have really long legs! Or are you casting an entire forest full of Robin Hood: Men in Hosen? :-) -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] carpet sweeper
I saw a commercial on TV for a new Swiffer - it's for carpets and has a sticky pad on the inside to catch the sweepings. They show it working with loose items, such as dry cereal. I don't know how well it would work with things that stick, like thread and cat hair. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] a holliday idea
Hi. I would like to participate in this also, but wouldnt there be problems? If i get someone who has interrest in medieval, i would not be much helpfull, have never done any medieval and what then? Bjarne It's funny that some people are suggesting gift categories without even getting a recipient! If Bjarne got a name of someone who likes medieval, for example, he could go to a museum shop and get some post cards of medieval paintings with costume. The person would likely not be from the same country, and probably not be familiar with those paintings. The idea of a $10 limit is that it's a token, and a cultural exchange. Much as we admire each other's work, I would not expect someone to make something that would sell for $50, even if it only contained $5 worth of materials. Time is valuable too, and especially close to the holidays when a lot of people are shopping for/making gifts for family and friends already. I like the idea of several clues that someone suggested earlier - besides time period(s), also a favorite color and animal, and maybe another thing or two? Maybe one dislike, such as nothing gray or allergic to wool. Say somebody lists 5th century, red and dragons. The giver might find a stack of postcards, or a red dragon figurine, or a yard of white linen (which is not specific to any of the clues but a 5th century person could use it). You may decide to shop, or you may have the perfect thing ripening in your fabric trim stash already. I think once names are distributed with their clues, a gift idea will be obvious. And if not, perhaps some people with different eras of interest could advise. It may be more complicated for the organizer, but if some people are concerned about customs or postage perhaps they could specify getting a name of someone in their own country. Great idea - take a chance! Where do we sign up? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Holiday Gift exchange - question...clarification
So we are NOT supposed to know who sent us our gift? I just got my assignment, and I'd kinda like to talk to this person. Sounds like we have a lot in common! Good match Dawn! I think the idea is that you reveal who you are when you send the gift. But not beforehand. I imagine there will be a lot of talking once the gift-giving is done! -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] odd question about toille draping
As long as there are no strange bumps or ridges, it doesn't matter. I'm reminded of the construction of some originals - rather than setting the sleeve into an armscye, it seems that the sleeve tops are eased into place and then the strap or robings are applied on top of them. So perhaps you'll have the opportunity to ensure the sleeves go smoothly over the straps of the stays, and the actual position of the seams on the gown will not matter. -Carol Dear Saragrace, Albertcat, understood it right, its my armscye of the bodice wich are bigger than the armscye in the stays. It wont show when the bodice covers the stays, do you get it? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] victorian corset with too short busk
This is hindsight, but I would have researched and bought the busk first before starting the corset, and then adjust the corset length so the available busk works. Why do you have to buy the rest of the boning in the same place? Is there a minimum order? The spiral boning is not that hard to cut. I'm talking about the type that looks like a flattened spring. You only need to snip two parts of the wire, with cutters that do not need to be as strong as those used to cut a solid metal bone. There's not that much metal to cut. If you cut it a certain way, you end up with a rounded edge because of the way the wire is rounded. You can get caps for the ends, but I found the resulting rounded edge works well. It's slightly better than the white metal boning as far as not wearing through the fabric. When I used the pre-made lengths of boning, I have a stock of a lot of different lengths. That way I don't have to order a specific amount and I can switch them if something ends up not the right size or comfort for any reason. -Carol the front of my corset is 19 inches in total (I chose this pattern from Corsets and Crinolines because it was fairly simple but it was long enough that I could do things like Bustle gowns as well as crinoline fashions) so if I leave 1/2 an inch at either end that leaves me with an 18 busk so 16 isn't long enough (though it's 1 longer than Hedgehog Handworks) and they don't have 1/2 wide spiral steels in pre-cut lengths, and I don't want to have to deal with cutting up the boning myself. Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Disposing of fabric
I found a place in the Philadelphia area where I BOUGHT hideous fabric from the 1950s. Actually I think it's cool, a pink, black gray (with a touch of turquoise) modern print for curtains. I agree that you should de-stink the stash and find the market for it. Otherwise you could be destroying something that is EXACTLY what someone else is looking for. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] eBay Listing Removed: Keyword Spamming
I'm guessing the listing would have been fine six months ago, but now with the movie coming out it has become a brand name. Funny thing about celebrity names and fashion - I know exactly what Madonna boots are, or a Jackie-O pillbox. People's names become synonymous with a style. For e-Bay, I would know what someone meant by a Queen Elizabeth I style. If they said J-Lo, they could mean something J-Lo actually wore or owned, an original or a copy of her fashion line, or a copy of one of her red-carpet gowns. I suppose that's why they need to draw the line somewhere. Maybe it would be ok to use Austen in the description without the Jane. Unfortunately we (historic costumers) use movie titles all the time, like Ever After and Shakespeare in Love. Not to mention the fantasy film inspirations! Does this mean you can't sell a Queen Amidalla style gown? And with artists: Watteau, Gibson and Vermeer all tell me something about the item. Your gowns will become popular because of the movie, perhaps with people who don't know terms like Regency, Federal, Empire, etc. Too bad they won't allow the keywords that will help people find them. -Carol Hi, just want to warn others - I got this message tonight - I did not realise I was spamming. What are your thoughts? I make Regency dresses for sale. Thanks, Aylwen Garden Jane Austen 1800s Pride Prejudice ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Colonial costume
Hi Kitty, First I would recommend the 18th century woman list which is a Yahoo Group - 18cWoman. There is a concentration of people who just do that century, so lots of knowledge and information. Approximately what year of colonial does your friend want? Stomachers went out of fashion around the time of the American Revolution, but were very much in use in the early part of the century. What class is the outfit, and any particular ethnic group? Is it to wear to a dance, as a volunteer for a historic site? A theatrical performance? Every-day or formal? help keep the shape. I'm not familiar enough with the patterns available to be able to talk about them (I tend to draft or drape my own from books such as Patterns of Fashion). Stays (18thC corset) really will help, especially if she is heavy. Otherwise she can make the stomacher stiff (with boning and interfacing, which they did in the 18thC), and use a substantial lining in the bodice of the gown to Style-wise, the gown and petticoat (underskirt) can be the same color with a different color for the stomacher. That will draw the eye up to the bustline. (But you don't want to be spilling out of the gown!) A different color petticoat is a sort of mix match style sometimes seen in casual wear. (Back to the question of the purpose of her gown.) The stomacher should not match the petticoat. I'm not sure what you mean by a lace overlay on the stomacher. Some have a criss-cross ribbon pattern to look like the gown is laced overtop, and another style is a series of bows, as if the gown is tied over the stomacher. Lace is sometimes used to give the appearance that the item is embroidered. Some original stomachers are 3-D, with chenille embroidery, ribbon work, etc. They can also be plain fabric or a brocade, without extra embellishment. (Again back to the purpose/class of the gown!) If you look around the web for ideas, be sure you know what is original to the 18th century (portraits clothing) versus people in repro clothing. Everyone makes their own changes and compromises, and it helps to know what you're looking at. -Carol She wants to do a stomacher to minimize the width, and wonders how her skirt should look. I can't find any pattern sites with a stomacher for colonial patterns, and my best guess for her is to make an over skirt to draw the lace overlay from the stomacher to the skirt and keep the eye moving and not fixated on the width. Any other ideas? I'd like to be able to email her some photos or sites to help her visualize the ideas if anyone has anything to help her. Oh. she is basically doing an impression, not perfect accuracy. She's never tried a corset and I'm not sure if I should offer to let her try mine. LOL I think mine might be too long anyway. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re:Colonial costume
Hi Kitty, Ok, I think I see what you mean - two strips of lace form a V that suggests a stomacher. Which is not at all how gowns of the era were made. Also they typically had low necklines, not a jewel neck. A riding habit would have a high neck, but not a gown. To fill in the neckline (for style or protection from the sun) she can wear a handkerchief. That will also conceal the fact that the dress has a jewel neckline. Some 20th/21st century women like that the handkerchief offers modesty, but in the 18thC a nice bustline is fashionable and not immodest. I like Albert Cat's idea of a solid dark blue or green. Don't bother with lace on the front at all. Get a somewhat sheer cotton for engenentes (ruffles at the cuffs) and an apron, and you can make the handkerchief out of it, too. her girls all have a colonial styled costume, and she wants one too so they can wear them together. her girls costumes have a psudo stomacher, created with a V of lace on the front of the dress. My friend wants to use this design feature on her dress, to create a bit of distraction on the front of the dress to minimize her width. She has a large bosom, but the dress will in no way expose her, it has a jeweled neckline. She called me the other day to ask me what lines to add to the skirt to be most becoming to her keeping her size in mind. I am the most experieced sewist of our bunch and the oldest. so I somehow became the expert of our group. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Holiday/Secret Santa gifts
Naturally mine was waiting for me today when I got home. :-) Sue Clemenger sent some chocolate truffles (Yum!) and a beautiful blank book covered in green velvet, with a Celtic knotwork animal design embossed into it. Very cool, thank you! -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: socks/stocking etc.
Hi Mia, Ok, since you mention Cowpens, I'm guessing you're doing Rev War? Hey Carol K, e-friend and sock guru, thanks for all the info on machine/frame knit sock (what is the correct term, or are all the terms correct, but for different techniques?) Framework knitting, stocking looms, stocking frames - there are a number of terms. The confusion comes in because peg frame enthusiasts also call them knitting frames. Sigh, terminology... The spousal unit (Corporal Dappert) bought a pair or the machine knit Civil war socks. in coton. they look good (to me, but I only know enought to be dangerous), they are in natural color cotton, and have no elastic. and very little give. They are supremely hard to get on and off.. I'll have to dig them out and look at the heel to see what kind of heel was put in. Are you talking about antique 19th century stockings or repros that are made for Civil War reenactors? Besides the ever-popular cotton/nylon stockings we have for reenactment, I've also found a thinner cotton stocking through an Amish source. Sorry, it was 15 years ago and I don't remember the source exactly! real period socks and stocking can be a challenge for those of us in the reecacting world.Which is why I went to not-so-authentic, but faster to produce cut from whole cloth stockings. The have that clock, which is missing from so many commerically availble socks. I think you mean they have that gusset or gore. Clocking or chevening is the decoration on the stocking, either knit in or embroidered or both. And cut sewn from woven cloth is authentic. But by the Rev War era they seem to be a coarse option, and are you portraying a coarse person? (Some do the army camp life, some do gentry and manor life.) I'm still experimenting with different fabrics for the stiffness factor. I have a piece of wool jersey that has been washed and fulled up nicely, AND is a bit stiffer. Do you know what the frequency is of stockings done in wool, but not knitted (Just general is good...) Wouldn't that be nice - a statistic for each decade on cut sewn from woven cloth, hand knit at home, hand knit and purchased, frame knit, silk, wool, cotton, thread People like to speculate on this, and I think it was the 18cWoman list where Paul Dickfoss mentioned whether frame knit or hand knit was used more. Certainly hand knit was seen in the actual 18th Century more than we see it among reenactors. :-) What it comes down to, is what seems the most likely for the role you are playing in reenactment? The thread was started by Bjarne looking for gentleman's stockings (although I still don't know what decade and what purpose). As a campfollower (I'm assuming again!) who were you before the army? (I'm sure you've gone through that already...) Until I get a stocking frame up running, the only absolute authentic stockings for Rev War reenactment are hand knit and cut sewn from woven cloth. But there are plenty of compromises out there, and the plain cotton/nylon are good in the sense that they do not draw attention to themselves. And Colleen Humphries often advocates the theatrical solution of black shoes and black stockings, which disappear and compromises are not obvious. There are some clocked stockings out there sold by suppliers, which are attention-getting and I have not yet seen a pair done correctly. (And those are machine embroidered on a typical cotton/nylon stocking, no gusset.) Remember that clocking is done on BOTH SIDES of period stockings. Many of those offered for sale are clocked on only one side. Also the motifs are sometimes placed in the wrong place on the ankle, or out of proportion to the original. And they are patterned after originals that are from the first half of the century and would have been out of style by the Rev War. Ok, with all that info have I managed to completely avoid your exact question? Also for everyone interested in stockings I recommend the Historicknit list, a Yahoo group, where we discuss knitting of all time periods. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: socks/stocking etc.
Carolyn said I'm not much of a knitter, but I have a book called Folk Socks, which has every kind of heel I ever say, and several I never did before, all with knitting instructions for them. (I haven't been following this thread, so I don't know if this book has been mentioned.) It also has many kinds of toe, also with instructions. What I love about this book (author - Nancy Bush) is that heels and toes are very nicely described and illustrated. She does not say when the different heels and toes are used, but the definitions are very nice. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re:knit stockings (long)
(not sure I'm remembering the name correctly) was making men's socks and there was some controversy on the heel construction. I'm not aware of anyone ever making correct machine knit ladies stockings. That name sounds familiar. I only heard he was making Civil War era, not any details beyond that. Was he making circular knits, or a flat knit with a seam? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] knit stockings
OK. I can make knit yardgoods (5 knitting machines). What would the stitches per inch be? Is there a decent pattern anywhere? Hi Julie, Kannik's Korner has a pattern for cut sewn stockings. What era are you aiming for? How fine can your machines knit? I suspect they are the home type of flatbed machine. I have one that's supposed to be fine gauge, but I have not yet gotten close to the machine-wrought gauge of the 18th century. (18-20 stitches per inch). Maybe if I started with wool and fulled it down, that might help. The modern latch-hook machines produce a stretchier fabric than the bearded needle machines of the 18thC. I tried cranking the tension up to the tightest, and it's still too stretchy. The thing is, knit yardgoods at fine gauges are already available at fabric stores. They are stretchier than antique stockings, but they are out there. If you can get a non-stretchy 18 stitches per inch, you could make stocking pieces to shape. Knit a few rows, then hook the starter edge back onto the hooks to form the welt. Knit some more, then move the outer 2 or 3 stitches one hook to the inside to decrease, knit a few rows and decrease, and etc. It may take a bit of experimenting, and if you're near me I can help and show you original stockings. If anyone is interested in seeing my collection, or a slide lecture, let me know. I'm in the Washington, DC area, but it all packs up nicely for travel. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th Century French hunting dress
Oooh, fun images! In the hunting costumes the ladies wear their hair in the rugged and manly long flowing curls. Has anyone ever seen this hairstyle worn with feminine style dress for this time period? I also like the high heeled shoes with the ice skates strapped on. Cool! -Carol http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/leloirX2.htm It's the 7th image down, Full hunting dress... 1692... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: 18c stays
And from all the discussion, it looks like there are a variety of preferences for the boning: - cable ties - reed - metal 1/4 white steel 1/2 white steel 1/4 spiral 1/2 spiral - plastic Dritz featherboning 1/4 Rigiline 1/2 Rigiline Wissner (the German type) in several widths and thicknesses And there is another type - I remember seeing it sold by Grannd Garb. (but it sounds like this is not the ideal option, since plastic is sweaty no matter where you live). It's all sweaty. Metal does not breathe, though I suppose the spiral type is more permeable than the white steel. Rigiline is also a woven thing, but it's nylon polyester. A lot of it is a matter of body type and the amount of support wanted. They had fully-boned and half-boned stays. Half-boned will breathe more no matter what boning material is used. I never had a problem with sweaty stays - I find a linen shift underneath is quite comfy. At an outdoor event in 90 degrees, everyone is hot no matter what they are wearing. A handkerchief also keeps for sun protection. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Cage crinolines: wire/steel hoops and casings query
I have at least three crins of this period and the wire in them is not quite tubular (think 'linguini and not speggitti).It is flexable but is not bent easily. The originals were fiber cased. Needle Thread in Gettysburg, PA (USA) carries this hooping. At least they did some years back when I got it. They have patterns, fabric and supplies for historic reenactors. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting Historians?
Hi Rosecelin, A good source of knit historians is the Historic Kint list. It's a Yahoogroup, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/historicknit/ You didn't say what era you friend prefers - different people concentrate on different time periods, cultures, etc. There are a lot of great discussions. And we have talked about crochet, too, and it's beginnings. I do 18th century and crochet is not around for that era, either. -Carol Recently there was a discussion about the history of knitting. I didn't really pay to much attention to it since I do not knit. But a friend of mine is a knitter and wants to talk to anyone who does know the history of knitting. If you can help, would you please contact me privately so I can get my friend in contact with you. Roscelin By the way, please excuse this question if it has been discussed. When did crocheting come along? I was told long ago that it started after 1650 - Is this true? I've been trying to convince a few of my needlework students that it is out of period for our group. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
If pictures in books dont suit your taste, then for a good grovel, a CV, and a letter of introduction you can get into the Bath Museum of Costume and fondle the real thing. Other museums have their own rituals of supplication. grin Well, my CV is not applicable because I haven't done much costume professionally. I didn't need a letter of introduction, and I didn't grovel, either. Of course, I was just looking at stockings, not gowns - maybe they're fussier with the gowns. A lot of museums are open to visits by dedicated amateurs, you just need to phone and write ahead of time and understand that many places are understaffed. It helps to belong to the Costume Society, and meet curators that way. The more people you meet, the more cool stuff you can see, then you meet more people, and see more stuff... I started 20 years ago looking at lace at the Met in New York. Somebody helpfully told me all you have to do is make an appointment. And it worked! It's nice to arrive bearing gifts - chocolate is always correct. And if going over there (wherever over there is), books published over here are nice, too. A lot of people have opportunities to visit collections, so if the question is out there then people may remember to look when they do have the chance to examine original gowns. And then there are the symposium weekends, where a curator and/or private collector brings their originals to show off. So yes, I believe in looking at originals to learn the techniques that were used. Also, regarding American vs European - some collections in America include European clothing. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Pink Fox Hunting
Referring to those red fox-hunting jackets as pinks raises the additional question of just what the British historically meant when they called something pink. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer My boss, an avid hunter, told me that the red fox-hunting jackets are called pink for a man named Pinkerton. I don't remember his exact title, Lord Pinkerton, perhaps? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap
Kind of like a Smurf hat... It's soft and fits to the head, except for a tip at the top that tends to point or lie forward. -Carol Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it not be a Phrygian style hat? -Original Message- Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian cap? I've googled to no avail. Thank you! KP ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model of constantly saying, of course, it's only my opinion, it's just my two cents, your mileage may vary, what does the rest of the group think? ad nauseum. Tone is not apparent on a list like this one, so I think it's important to spell out one's opinions and offer citations. Statements like those Fran mentions are sometimes used to emphasize that the writer is not saying always or never. There are plenty of topics in costume research where we can state a general trend, which may have rare exceptions. Or the observation is different in another culture or a few decades earlier/later. It's a soft area of research in many ways, with new information found or new experiments attempted. Some of the statements are a shorthand way of saying This is my own research/experience and others may find something different. I would be very interested to hear about any examples in XYZ culture for the years __ to __. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) covers differences in body size, price ranges, etc. As long as people don't get too much into obscure acronyms, or too use many assumptions so that their meaning is not clear. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Quick lace question
So, I don't need a specific date for the technique, just a ballpark half-century or quarter-century in which something visibly recognizable as lace became commonly used as clothing decoration. I know I see recognizable lace all over Elizabethan art, and I don't see it in 14th century art. But I don't have a sense for when exactly it starts cropping up as a typical feature in depictions of clothing. In the 18th century, lace was also a woven tape that could be used around buttonholes and worked into patterns on some military coats. There are also the laces that go through eyelets to fasten things. I know what you mean, though, if the author means something like that, readers will be looking for string holes. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Knight's Tale
Braveheart SharonC., who says Macbeth backstage too, and doesn't spit, turn around, go out and come back in, etc. On the Revlist (American Revolution) some people will write *spit* after they mention the movie, The Patriot. It's a testament to Mel that there are such reactions to his movies... Many people on the Revlist were extras in The Patriot, so they had even more personal investment in it. The wore their own repro 18thC uniforms (to keep it costume related!) -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questions, (both on topic and not)
I'll have to check. The guy who invited me is from a unit of Highlanders, but I was thinking I'd just stick to my civilian clothes. Unfortunately, those have about everything I need -- except a coat. OTOH, if it's strictly military thing, I'll probably just stick to modern stuff. Perhaps you would be a campfollower of some sort. (Yes, men were campfollowers, too.) A drover or supplier of some sort? Carry a notebook and grumble about how long it takes to get paid whenever someone is looking... Are there any good patterns readily available? I always used to draft things from Cut of Men's Clothes. I hear the JP Ryan patterns are good. Steer clear of Pegee of Williamsburg. The Revlist would be a good place to ask - it's a Yahoo group called Revlist. A simpler, unfitted garment is a smock, a working man's garment worn over a shirt, waistcoat breeches. If it's really hot no one would notice if you left off the waistcoat, but you didn't hear that from me. ;- You can make it from fustian (linen/cotton) or linen canvas. A sleeved waistcoat is a bit longer than waist length, not as long and without the curves and tailoring of a fashionable coat. Some guys run around in shirts waistcoats without a sleeved garment on top. But that's 18th century naked. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 18thC Bodice, was: A little help please????
I second Ann's suggestion of the 18cWoman list! It's Yahoo Group. There are women's waistcoats, either quilted for warmth and worn over stays (and under a gown), or styled like a man's waistcoat and worn with a riding habit. Jumps are a bit of a mystery, defined as lightly boned stays. Perhaps they could have been corded for structure, but someone recently posted a cite for a bodice (18thC term) that is corded, and different from stays or jumps. If your friend knows about jumps, and that the bodice is not jumps, maybe she knows more about it! I'm curious to know how she will wear it, what nationality, social class, etc she's portraying. There are different things worn in France, for instance, and Fleur de Lyse has patterns for Habitante dress. But most bodices out there in reenactor land are not good and worn incorrectly. So there's a lot more to it than finding a pattern. That being said, you may be able to draft what she wants. The 18thC women's shape is generally cone-shaped, no darts, bust fullness is raised a bit, and the neckline is low. Shoulder and side seams are placed toward the back, not centered on the body as we do with modern clothes. -Carol Been lurking for a couple of weeks now, and heard about the Tudor Tailor book, got it and love it..big thanks to all who spoke of it before it came out. Question is, I am Scadian, but have a friend who asked me for a pattern for a Rev war era fitted bodice. She said that they were incorrectly called Jumps for awhile. Anyone know what it is I need? Any patterns online anywhere? I can enlarge a print-out, and probably fit it without t much problem, but I would not say that I am any more than an 'adequate'seamstress. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Multiple textile techniques...
I learned to crochet first when I was little, and discovered it was very easy to shape it various ways. I was actually resistant to knitting, because at the time it was not as interesting. I remember a Girl Scout troop project (I was about 9), knitting scarves. They only showed us garter stitch, and the girls who already knew how to knit got smaller needles. I know now they were keeping it very simple for the whole group, but it was torture doing the same thing over and over and over! I got over that, and I enjoy knitting. I haven't crocheted in years, but I still can if I want to. A friend has been trying to teach her daughter to knit (she's 8), and I may suggest crochet first for her. It's a lot more instant gratification, useful for those with a small attention span. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] The delete button...
Don't you people know about the DELETE button on your computer? If there is a subject you aren't interested in - delete it. I agree - this list covers diverse time periods, and there will be topics not of interest to everyone. I would like to ask (and I hope it's ok with the management to do so!) that people consider whether their note is personal/private or not. We do have the ability to respond privately to a note, whether it's to offer a compliment or a concern. Brainstorming through a creative block is useful for many. Signal-to-noise ratio is a big reason for people to leave groups and start their own. I think it's great that people discuss 5th century Fredonian necklines even if I don't read those notes. Too many personal notes, and I agree with Lalah: I normally love this list and would hate to lose it as a valuable resource. I don't want to lose any of the knowledgeable people we have (whether they consider themselves experts or not), many of whom can make those 5th century Fredonian necklines interesting! -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cotton gloves?
You can also check the cosmetics/personal care section of a drug store. That's where I found mine. If I remember correctly they were with the lotions for the ladies who wear cotton gloves to sleep in after slathering on lotion. Mine are similar but perhaps a bit lighter weight than my son's marching band gloves. Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 570
What is ecampus, please? I haven't been able to keep up with the digest very well for health reasons. Thanks Carol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. Patterns on Ebay (Kathy Page) 2. dream class (Althea Turner) 3. Re: dream class (Voncile W. Dudley) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:02:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page Subject: [h-cost] Patterns on Ebay To: Historical Costume List Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I have finally gotten around to listing my patterns. I have everything except my Past Patterns collections up, which those will go up later this evening. My seller ID is insaneseamstress: http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZinsaneseamstress Hope that link works. I have listed everything with a starting price below current market values - or at least the ones I could find. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 -- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:42:39 -0700 From: Althea Turner Subject: [h-cost] dream class To: Historical Costume Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hello all, I am developing a couple classes for ecampus. I began to wonder what kind of textiles/ apparel classes people want, but can never find. I know what I like, but what would you like to see offered? Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century -- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:52:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Voncile W. Dudley Subject: Re: [h-cost] dream class To: Historical Costume Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi Althea. I would love any class that is offered. We can never stop learning. Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com Althea Turner wrote: Hello all, I am developing a couple classes for ecampus. I began to wonder what kind of textiles/ apparel classes people want, but can never find. I know what I like, but what would you like to see offered? Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things. William of Conches, 12th century ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 570 * Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fwd: Unique Internship for Costume Students
This was on a museum list. I e-mailed Eva, and she asked to please share with other lists! - Hello, I'm writing in hopes that you know of a talented student who might be interested in the following internship at the Merchant's House Museum. This is the first time we've offered a position in historic costuming, and I think this would be a great opportunity for someone who is interested in historic clothing, sewing, or theatrical costuming. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or recommendations. Although the position description is for a volunteer track, the Museum is glad to fulfill any requirements necessary for students to achieve academic credit. Yours truly, Eva Ulz Historic Costumers Wanted for Productions in NYC's Oldest Preserved Interior Do you have a passion for historic costume? The Merchant's House Museum's education department is seeking creative costumers to help create accurate 19th-century clothing for our interpreters. This is a great chance to expand your costuming repertoire and get period experience. Costumers will work closely with Museum designers to research period accuracy and mimic 19th-century construction techniques. You'll be able to copy details directly from the Museum's extensive costume collection and primary source library. Some of the costumes we plan to build this fall include mid-19th century undergarments (corsets, crinolines, etc.), day dresses, mourning clothes, and formal attire. The costumes will be worn by actors during Museum events including candlelight ghost tours, a recreated 1865 funeral, a musical revue of early 19th-century NYC, and our annual holiday caroling festival. Benefits to You In addition to helping a worthy cause (educating the public about what life was really like in 19th-century New York,): -you'll gain the kind of hand-on experience with period costuming that couldn't come from anywhere but one of NCY's largest single-family costume collections. -You'll learn about authentic construction techniques, garment shapes, and period research sources. -Museum volunteers also receive a staff card which provides free admission for you and a guest to most other area museums. Required Skills You must be an accomplished stitcher, familiar with a variety of construction and finishing techniques. You must be able to construct a garment without step-by-step instructions from a hand-drawn pattern or draped muslin. Experience with fitting, theatrical costuming, historic costume, or the ability to drape and draft patterns is a plus. How to Apply Send a cover letter, resume/cv (of your related experiences), and - if possible - detailed pictures of your work to: Eva Ulz Education Coordinator Merchant's House Museum 29 East Fourth Street New York, NY 10003 Fax: 212-777-1104 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] The Merchant's House Museum is New York City's only family home preserved intact -- inside and out -- from the 19th century. Built in 1832 just steps from Washington Square, this elegant red-brick and white-marble row house on East Fourth Street was home to prosperous merchant Seabury Tredwell and his family for 100 years. Today, the house offers a rare and intimate glimpse of domestic life during the significant period of the 19th century when New York City transformed from a colonial seaport to become the center of U.S. culture and commerce and a world city on a par with London and Paris. Visit http://www.merchantshouse.org/www.merchantshouse.org for more information. Since 1832... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Harmful Fabrics
As if the dyes and finishes were not enough... I heard about something called silk rot, which will consume destroy silk faster than time in general. I broke out after handling some 1880s/90s items, ad that was suggested as a cause. In that case the item should be removed from the collection. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] a question about museums
It depends on whether the museum has photos or slides available of objects. Besides postcards and prints, some museums have professionally made slides of various objects. f they have them, they will sell them! :-) It's a question for the specific museum. If you wanted someone to take photos just for you, that may be a bit more difficult to arrange. -Carol On Nov 26, 2006, at 5:00 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, I went to se the Marie Antoinette movie last week, and my eyes fell on a gentlemans suit. It was copyed from Revolution in Fashion from Kyoto. After the movie all i could think about was i want to embroider that suit two, i tryed to photograph from the book and make a pattern repeat of the embroidery, and i can, but its impossible to se how big the embroidery is. Do you think the museum would let me buy a photo of the embroidery and also meassures of the embroidery, (how wide it is)? Next i think about, maybe the museum dont have any pictures at all, maybe it was the makers of the books who owns the pictures? I was very surprised recently when i asked a museum in Gotland, Sweden about a pair of stays in their collection, i noticed it in a new swedish book. When i contakted the museum, they didnt have any pictures of it. Japan is way out of my budget to travel to just for that. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1450 - pregnant?
On Dec 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: On Mon, 25 Dec 2006, Robin Netherton wrote: This is the one I like -- look at Elizabeth's left side, and you'll see the side seam has been opened and laced with a gap. You can see the dark underdress beneath. http://www.wga.hu/index1.html Whoops, sorry, the site is framed. This gets you to the image: http://www.wga.hu/cgi-bin/highlight.cgi?file=html/w/weyden/rogier/ 17other/3visitat.htmlfind=visitation --Robin Ok, that is very obvious. I see again that there are more eyelets than are being used by the lace. What's going on there - some kind of lace shortage? It's not a get dressed fast scene, and also wouldn't that side lace be for adjustment rather than getting into the dress? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT
Right, as others have said, it's not about sexual activity, it's about grooming. My personal line of definition — hair gel. :-) It can be as simple as that, and also guys who get manicures, facials and have their eyebrows pruned shaped. -Carol On May 5, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Saragrace Knauf wrote: Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me. NPR's discussion implies that it is another word for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a MSwhat the heck is everyone talking about??? Someone who copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Simplicity patterns
Actually that looks like the stays rather than a stomacher. The shape and length looks fine. Generally the stomacher is where you would have some contrast — a focal point. They have that with the bows, but the stomacher could be a different color, too. With the underpinnings (3635), it looks like the shift sleeves are drawstring, which is not correct. Shift sleeves were gathered into cuffs. Likewise the neckline should not be gathered, either. The V at the bottom back of the stays is consistent on the model and the line drawing, so it looks like it's part of the pattern. And it's not right, either. With a few adjustments, though, it could produce something decent. -Carol On Jul 22, 2007, at 9:19 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: 20 1/2 yds for the Robe A l'francaise http://www.simplicity.com/ designNavigator.cfm?design=3637, sounds like Simplicity has gone overboard as per usual on buying extra yardage for trim rather than piecing scraps. Also I'm not sure about the shape and length of that point, 18th century experts can correct me but in the line drawing it doesn't look right and rather reminds me of a comment I heard about the Shakespeare in Love pattern describing the look as 'bodice with a p*nis' because there is just this narrow point sticking down at the front rather than a more straight line heading downwards to make a V shape. The wig really can't be helped, it's what you can buy easily from costume shops and I doubt Simplicity would have bothered with a good one for a photo shoot (and nothing above the neck is included in the pattern anyway). Although with a saque gown you can get away with claiming it's pre 1770s and the big hair trend hasn't really gotten underway yet. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: bra centenary
It works if you go to: http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/ and click the link from there. I changed the subject line because it was offensive. The history is brief, captions on each of 12 photos. It's done in a factual way and not as a men's entertainment piece. It's not porn. I would bet many of us have better bra histories on our bookshelves already. -Carol On Aug 26, 2007, at 10:25 AM, zelda crusher wrote: Cut and pasted the thing twice, came back bad request. Laurie (not a bloke but interested in bras nonetheless) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Feminists be damned,one for the blokes to look at (bra centenary) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:23:06 +1000 http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/slideshow.aspx? sectionid=5315sectionname=slideshowsubsectionid=75014subsectionnam e=brahisto ryphoto=1 This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. http://travel.msn.com/Articles/ aboutfarecast.aspxocid=T001MSN25A07001 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Speaking of fleece...
This is an odd thing, but hopefully useful to someone. There is free fleece available in Northern Virginia (DC area). I think it may be angora goat. Someone raises them and has been shearing and collecting the fleeces, but not doing anything with them. This is info I'm getting from my (non-fiber-oriented) boss, so it's slightly vague. If anyone is in the area and wants to go check it out and see if the fleece is useable, send me a private note. Also it's ok to forward this to any people or lists that might have DC/Virginia area people interested in the fiber. Thanks! -Carol Kocian [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Tango in a Hoop (was [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's wearing?)
Also have you tried a bridal shop? Any time I've seen a bride's garter, they are blue and white and sometimes with a little ornament (white bell, etc) added. As far as finding/making things, that's something you can assign to a bridesmaid to research and get for you. ;-) -Carol On Dec 8, 2007, at 12:16 AM, otsisto wrote: Actually, the blue comes from the saying wear something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. Which was originally: Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue and a silver sixpence in her shoe. English bridal tradition from the Victorian era. Most women make the garter as the blue something that is worn, you do not have to have the blue garter. Whose telling you have to have a blue garter? You could have a blue ribbon in the bouquet or a little blue bow on the slip. Get a white garter and attach a blue bow. The color blue is alleged to be a symbol of love, modesty and fidelity. I think that prior to the Edwardian era, that blue was a popular color for wedding dresses but I can't remember where I read that. De -Original Message- I don't know if they are planning one of those auctions for me though... but I've been instructed to wear a blue garter (another tradition), and I can only find white, black, and red ones! Geez, another thing I have to make myself... The idea of dramatically taking off the wide overskirt is great. It should even close with velcro, for the nice ripping sound when you rip it open. But I have tried to imagine it, looked at fabrics, and decided that I won't have time to do that, I'm flat out already with doing one skirt only... oh just if there wasn't so much choice... :-) B M ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] tights
Since they have been mentioned, I thought someone might be able to help me. Target used to carry 100% cotton tights for a reasonable price, but now they carry microfiber, which my skin won't tolerate. Ditto nylon or mostly nylon blend. Silk pantyhose were available for a few months, but apparently weren't popular. I've found cotton tights for almost $20 a pair-has anyone seen any natural fibre tights for less? Thanks Carol Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] sweating sickness
One of the historical fiction novels I read year's ago mentioned that the disease had an uncanny ability to seek out Englishmen in other countries (diet, perhaps?) also that it seemed to be associated with outbreaks of murrain in cattle. Does anyone know the modern name for that disease? Carol Mitchell Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Elizabethan world
I'm not sure who put in that posting, but I can't get the website to open. Does anyone know anything about the book? Thanks Carol Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Old fashion in fashion
Well, recycling old clothes to the current fashion has been done throughout history. I think it's due to the post-WWII consumerism that we're not used to it the way our ancestors were. Whether something is thrown out or worn to rags, it's gone. I think what vexes many historians is when a garment is dormant for 20 or more years (stored) and *then* worn to rags or thrown out. Sometimes it's a fashion trend (inspired by a period movie, for example) and sometimes it's an individual's interest. The only way to prevent such things is to buy and preserve vintage clothing yourself and support museums that do the same. It's all supply and demand. Personally, I also cringe at an item that has been altered, or an extant gown where someone has cut off the entire placket for the buttons (rather than removing them individually). I once bought a 1920s dress for $5 where the dealer said only the lace was worth saving — after a careful washing and light pressing the entire thing was in great shape. Also there are many people who can reproduce a garment or style (out of fresh, new, isn't-going-to-shatter fabric), but some customers would rather take their chances with a $50 vintage item than pay $250 for a repro. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Old fashion in fashion
I have to agree with the person who posted about shoe styles. When an era is the current trend, then we have shoes available, as well as fabrics and the occasional ready-to-wear item that will do for the historic look. But yes, shoes especially! Most reenactment shoes are pricey, and a worthwhile investment for someone who is immersed in a particular time period. Cheaper shoes that pass the five-foot-away inspection are a wonderful thing! Sometimes we start by trying out a time period, or need something for a dance or party once a year. We all know that fabrics follow the trends, too — colors, patterns, etc. Sometimes brocades are all over the place, and sometimes they are hard to find. Many of us especially enjoy it when our time period is passing out of fashion, and the items are marked down. :-) -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] crochet 18th C
On May 7, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Chris Laning wrote: As I've said, I'm quite willing to believe Bjarne's example may be chain stitches and attachments made with a hook; I'm not dead set against there being crochet in the 18th century. Really, I do understand why people keep trying to find crochet earlier. 18th Century costume reseachers have known about that example — the book from the Met has been out for quite some time! Also fly fringe bits are strung together either with a chain, a braid or a woven tape. Rick Hill of Colonial Williamsburg researched and taught fringe-making, showing examples of all. Crochet had to develop somehow. Tambour work was in use (although it really gained popularity in the 1780s) — it being a chain of embroidery made with a hook. It's not surprising someone would try it as a stand-alone chain. Similarly, knotting in the 18thC was done with a shuttle that resembled a tatting shuttle. Tatting as we know it developed later. Generally when people ask about crochet or tatting in relation to the 18thC, they mean the lace and have a specific example at hand. That's why we often hear it did not exist at the time, it's the answer to those questions. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting machines
On May 13, 2008, at 11:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also own a very old stocking knitting machine that is circular. I haven't done anything with that yet. I am curious to see if I could make stockings on it that re enactors could use. It depends on the era and accuracy you're aiming for. Circular knitters were used for stockings in the 19th century. Prior to that, machine-knit stocking were knit flat to shape and seamed up the back and along the sides of the foot. Hand knit stockings were always around and knit in the round. With a circular sock machine, you could make accurate stockings for the 19th and 20th centuries. For earlier times, you can offer colors and materials beyond what is commercially available currently. Early knits for stockings, both hand and frame (machine) knit, are dense without much stretch. Latch hook machines make a stretchy knit, and even with the tension set very high it's not exactly the same. Considering that a most historic costuming means compromise, you can provide something that will be useful to earlier reenactors. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting machines
On May 14, 2008, at 12:38 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: How much is it like using a weaving loom? With either, it depends on how you set it up and your project. The motion of a home knitting machine is to slide the carriage back forth, simpler than raising the sheds and throwing a shuttle in weaving. It gets complicated with shaping, but that can be done with punch cards on a knitting machine. Patterns can be done with cards as well. One approach is to go to a store that sells the machines to see the features and capabilities of each. I visited several stores to see different brands. It sounds like you have an idea of the type of things you want to make. For historic costume, home knitting machines are most suitable for 19th ad 20th century items. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting machines
On May 14, 2008, at 5:21 PM, Andrew T Trembley wrote: Unfortunately, your impression seems to be about right. Both Passap (the most advanced European manufacturer) and Brother (the biggest Japanese manufacturer) no longer produce knitting machines. Then maybe secondhand machines would be available. I guess the idea of seeing machines at a shop is less likely, though. I'm not sure if it's that knitting machines don't lend themselves to multi-purpose designs, or if it's that they're pretty much useless without at least basic knowledge of hand-knitting. Then again, it could just be that serious knitting machines are large, too large for apartment-dwellers. Industrial machines would tend to be more limited, each to its particular purpose. Some are much wider than home machines, can make very wide fabric or multiple items at once. Home machines are made to be versatile for varied projects. Andy covered the details on gauges. I think most people would start with the medium. Since large-gauge handknitting goes faster, bulky knitters are not as crucial to have. Fine gauge is also a specialty type of machine. You may well want to have all three gauges, fully computerized and automated. But the medium would be a good start. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting machines
On May 14, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: I thought fine gauge might be nice for lacey knits. Or use thin yarn on a medium gauge machine. I suppose I should consider taking up hand knitting, but I've got this childhood block about it. I suppose counting stitches is not so bad if you're an adult. I suppose I was also influenced by my mother's strong preference for crocheting over knitting. At least try scarves as a way to learn different stitches. If you hate counting stitches, put a marker every 5 stitches and then you will see quickly if you are missing one. Eventually you will get a feel for it and not have to count very much at all. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting machines
On May 14, 2008, at 10:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I should think I could even use my straight knitting machines to make the stockings if I wanted a seam up the back. And even if you knit them by hand you're going to have some give because of the nature of the stitches. You would think so, but when examining originals I can see that 18th century handknits are done tighter and firmer than is done by modern handknitters. Try knitting with a yarn that is the same thickness as your needles and you will be closer to it. But again, it all depends on whether you are aiming for exact repros, or something that improves on most of what is available and people will want. But right now I'm more concerned about sewing myself a couple more outfits than making stockings for other people. It's really hard trying to get some sewing done with a retired husband around. Every time I want to go in my sewing room, he thinks of some other work I should be doing instead. If he's recently retired, sounds like he needs to find his own work he should be doing. I take it he was in management? :-D I hate to suggest he might like the knitting machines, because then you still might not get to work with them yourself. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Number of machines.Was Sewing and Embroidery Machines
So why do people have so many? Do you not trade in the old one when buying a new one, which is what I do? Do you have machines that do different things? Tee hee - sewing machines are like cars, and it's all a matter of how you buy them. Some people upgrade every few years, others get something for it's reliability and use it for decades. A few years back I had my machine serviced (cleaned oiled). The rather opinionated repairman said he first learned on that machine, and exclaimed that he wouldn't give me $5 on a trade-in. I said why would I get rid of a perfectly good machine for only $5? There are other machines that are are kept because they are sentimental, perhaps inherited. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting machines
On May 15, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bambi TBNL wrote: Well actually ...do you remember having the spool with the nails and the yarn got looped over the nail and then you wrapped again and...well if you ever had one...this is making sense...a knitting loom is sort of like that concept with the lay the yarn out nd loops come through and ..gosh im not helping am I? but they come in a few different forms... Bambi You're talking about a peg frame, which is not like a modern home knitting machine and not like the knitting frame invented by Reverend Lee in 1589. The terms can be confusing — Lee's machine was called a knitting frame, a hand frame and a stocking loom among other things. There are peg frames from the late 18th century, purse moulds, that were used to make small purses. Peg frame enthusiasts will sometimes cite the terms for the Lee frame as being proof of the use of peg frames, but it is not the same thing. Lee's machine was really quite complex. It would knit an entire row at once (in a series of steps), whereas modern latch hook machines (both domestic and industrial) knit as the carriage goes across, essentially knitting one stitch after another. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Nurses and nuns
-- Don't nurses wear veils in the UK? I remember from several movies... Monica The nurse in overall charge of a ward was, and for all I know still is, called Sister. I read some books by an author named Lucilla Andrew in which the nurse of the operating room (called an operating theatre)was referred to as Sister Theatre. Can someone tell me if that's been changed or not? Thanks Carol Mitchell Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.chicostume.org Costume Midwest http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumemidwest/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] h-costume Digest, Vol 7, Issue 223
Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about nurses in the U.K. BTW, I begin to understand some of the hostility towards the NHS. Penny, thanks for the access to your wonderful website. The other times it's been open I didn't have a computer of my own, so I was really glad to have the chance. Carol Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.chicostume.org Costume Midwest http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumemidwest/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] General sewing lists
I would suggest going to google and asking about sewing lists. They have continued some of the thousands of old lists, and it is possible to get a daily list of postings so you don't need to log in every day. Carol Mitchell Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.chicostume.org Costume Midwest http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumemidwest/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] London bookstores
I've never been to London (sigh), but I used to buy books from Foyle's bookshop-pre-internet and pre-weak dollar. I don't think I bought any costuming books from them, but I notice that they are called the largest bookshop in London, so I'd assume they must have several costume books. BTW, it was also pre-decimal coinage for England, which gives you an idea of how long ago it was. I checked just to make sure they were still in business. Carol Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.chicostume.org Costume Midwest http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumemidwest/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] preserving patterns — paper
What is your favorite method of preserving patterns to keep them intact? In the past, I have fused the tissue to muslin, but those were *very* simple children's play clothes, and eyeballing the cutting line for a smaller size was simple. I rarely use commercial patterns; usually I would draft them out of a book onto paper. My favorite paper source: If anyone is near a large printing plant, call and ask if they print on web presses, and if so wold they give you a butt roll? When a web press is running, they switch from one roll of paper to the next without stopping. This means there is some paper left on the old roll. For our use it's a huge amount, about half to an inch thick on a 4 core. Printers recycle these rolls as waste, but if you ask nicely they will give you one. Don't get newsprint, because it degrades. You want white uncoated or matte finish so you can write on it easily. Of course, you can't be too fussy with free stuff, but also they could look out for the type of paper you need and save it for you. It helps to bring cookies or brownies to the person who helps you. :-) -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FLDS clothing
I noticed some articles while doing research for my newsletter. I have mixed feelings, because while it might enable some of them to support their kids away from the cult, there's always the possibility that the money could end up being given to members of it. After all, there's no guarantee that they'll remain outside after the court case is over.On the other hand, some of our everyday clothing is being made in sweatshops.Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Nancy's in Seattle-La Mode Bagatelle
You mentioned that they only had two patterns in their line. I only know of one-the Regency wardrobe. What was the other? Thanks Carol Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.chicostume.org Costume Midwest http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumemidwest/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] British Magazine
My first thought was unashamed scam. My second was that they mean to publish it, but I highly doubt they will. They are asking for investment, not trying to sell magazines. Anyone who tells you there will be no refunds obviously means to use your money to try to get their venture started, and when, not if, it fails, there won't be any money to pay anyone back. I think they're trying to avoid lawsuits. Why not wait until they have something to show? Carol Mitchell Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.chicostume.org Costume Midwest http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumemidwest/ --- On Thu, 10/16/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 7, Issue 373 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 1:00 PM Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. Have a question about a magazine (Onaree Berard) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:24:27 -0500 From: Onaree Berard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Have a question about a magazine To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I saw this magazine listed on Amazon.com -- Medieval History - England http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-History-England/dp/B7J7P2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8s=magazinesqid=1224123227sr=1-2 Does anyone know anything about it. Is is any good or with purchasing? Onaree -- Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 7, Issue 373 * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stockings query
Hi Kate, Good thing you have 17th century in your signature — that's the period for your stockings, right? Ok so at the ankle, you're holding the stitches at the front and knitting the heel flap. Then you have to form the part that cups around the heel. Knit halfway across the heel flap. When you fold it in half, the raw edge (The part you just knitted) should be touching itself. The fold is vertical. That raw edge is then finished/attached to itself with a 3- needle bindoff. Kitchener had not been invented yet, but some people like to do that for a smoother join. Starting from the center (back of the heel) join the two edges, ending at the bottom/underneath the heel. You will end up with the heel flap shaped like a corner. That's a common heel. There are ways of shaping a little bit so it's rounder instead of having that little point at the corner, but the point is perfectly correct for 17thC. So you have this heel pocket, and the edge is all the side of the knitting. You pick up stitches from that edge, and knit out sideways (along with the stitches from the top of the ankle) to make the foot. I was looking around on the web, I thought someone had stocking instructions with illustrations of one in progress. I hope this clarifies it! You may also want to try the Historic Knit list, or check out Ravelry.com for more resources. -Carol On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:46 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: In some sets of instructions for knitting period stockings, you are told to fold the heel flap in half. I'm a fairly experienced knitter, but I can't make sense of this. Can anyone advise? I assume it means to fold the flap edge-to-edge rather than to double it back on itself. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spartan
Hey Judy, please email me. I think I may have a manual...and yes they thru most things... Ta Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Costume- and sewing-related Christmas gifts
A book, Barbara Johnson's Album...G Happy, happy, happy! Ta Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Costume- and sewing-related Christmas gifts
On Dec 30, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Dianne wrote: Oh yeah, and a flying monkey :). I need to make him a little vest.. Catherine perk? Flying monkey? My SCA coat of arms is a winged monkey. Any clue where he came from? Dianne This is funny — the Air Space Museum has a monkey in a space suit, which I got for a friend as flying monkey. There are all manner of toy monkeys available, and all you need to do is add wings. The little vest and pillbox hat wouldn't hurt... :-D -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Yellowed silk
On Jan 4, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: It can take a little while for the bleach to do its work. I suppose that is why you can use certain (weak) bleach products to alter the color of your hair and not end up bald ... but it's certainly not good for your hair. Years ago, I remember a friend of mine telling me she didn't shave her legs, but instead bleached the hair there. She assumed the bleach simply made the hair color lighter so the hair didn't show, but I suspect the bleach treatment she bought actually thinned out the hair on her legs over time. The bleach to lighten hair is peroxide. If she was using a blonde hair dye, that would work. Too much peroxide can cause damage, but not as fast as fabric bleach. I've used fabric bleach as a quick dirty poison ivy treatment. It dries out the rash really fast, and it's harsher on the skin than hair bleach. As with anything, try it on a swatch first. The yellowed tippets are weakened and will probably need to be replaced. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] micro fiber velvet?
Hi Has anyone worked with the new to me micro fiber velvet? How does it compare to the silk velvets? Ta Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset boning with zip ties
Hi I made a set--works very nicely..and I'm not small. I cut the ends off and rounded them. They are in two layers of canvas... Ta Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mr Darcy outfit
Yes — assemble both the outer layer and the lining, but leave open both side seams. Put them right sides together and sew along the circumference: neck, center front, lower fronts. Armscyes. Bottom back edge. Do not sew the side seams. Turn it inside out and press. On the side seams, pin the outer fabric right sides together. Sew it, and also sew the linings 1 or 2 inches at the top and bottom. Hand stitch the lining closed at the side seams. -Carol On Mar 7, 2009, at 3:49 PM, REBECCA BURCH wrote: My oldest son has requested some assistance with an outfit he needs to wear to a Regency Ball at the end of the month. I got most of the jacket done before he had to return to Chicago, but he will have to deal the the waistcoat on his own. I don't do much menswear, but I seem to recall there is a method of stitching the lining around the armholes and most of the outer edge and then turning it inside out so that all the edges are finished. Does anybody know somewhere he could get directions? (and me - you never know when it might come in handy!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] The fit of 17th century stockings?
Hi Shapely ankles and calves were sexy...You can get nice tight shaping with knits...be careful if you have high insteps to leave enough room to get them on... Ta Carol (and I haven't forgotten Mara...) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The fit of 17th century stockings?
On Apr 4, 2009, at 5:05 PM, Chris Laning wrote: I'm working on a project that involves constructing some mid-17th- century stockings, and my own expertise (such as it is) is really only with earlier centuries. So far, the results I seem to be getting suggest that either (1) these stockings are *supposed* to be loose around the ankle and instep rather than closely fitted, or (2) the instructions were written by someone who really didn't know what he was doing! Both are possible, of course, but since I haven't studied 17th century fashions at all, I don't have information that would enable me to tell. Insights from people more familiar with this era would be very helpful -- backup evidence even more so ;) There are some wide elements to the clothing — big boot tops, for example. But illustrations of stockings and shoes show them as smooth fitting as most other eras. Is this an ideal, though? I've seen 18thC paintings that show baggy ankles, but it may depend on the style vs realism of the paintings. What I've seen in late 17th/early 18thC stockings is that they are a more boxy shape than mid- to late-18thC. I doubt foot shape would change that much over 50 years. Many early knit stockings are densely made and/or fulled so the fabric is not as stretchy as we are used to with modern knits. they don't stretch for the smooth fit that we expect in modern socks. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Peacock Wedding Dress
I had some white peacock feathers at one time. I suspect they were bleached. The gold section was still metallic looking and another part was pinkish, with the rest being a cream color. They would have made quite an impressive dress, too. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1169646/Strut- aisle-1-5m-wedding-dress-2009-peacock-feathers.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Peacock Wedding Dress
Now that I've looked at the albino peacocks, I definitely think my feathers were bleached. The albinos are pure white and the bleached feathers had a bit of color still on them. Also I saw a web page where they sold bleached peacock, as well as overdyed. The dyed are not bleached first, however the red ones are quite striking. I had some of those, too. I don't know if it's in Philadelphia any more, but I got mine at the S.A. Feather Company. It was also a great source for ostrich plumes of various colors and sizes. I used those more then anything for historic things. Sometimes they would have the end of a dye lot that were fairly cheap. They did custom dyeing, although of course they can be dyed at home, too. -Carol On Apr 14, 2009, at 12:20 AM, otsisto wrote: What gave you the impression they were bleached? De -Original Message- I had some white peacock feathers at one time. I suspect they were bleached. The gold section was still metallic looking and another part was pinkish, with the rest being a cream color. They would have made quite an impressive dress, too. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1169646/Strut- aisle-1-5m-wedding-dress-2009-peacock-feathers.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not!...maybe
The purpose of the point over the left eye was so the musket barrel would not hit it. There are probably caricatures of hats being worn back on the head, but the fashion was straight. I remember hearing that 17thC hats were round rather than oval, and the distortion when worn caused the fashionable undulation of the brim. That doesn't happen when the brim is cocked up. Stretching the hat to oval will change the shape a bit, but not the the extent that it's visible with a free brim. Carol On Apr 15, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: I think they were designed to be worn straight. When I did 18th century re-enactment 30 years ago, we were told that soldiers' hats should be worn with the front point an inch above the left eyebrow. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor -- Not especially my period, but were they worn straight on the head? If you wear a hat tilted back so it sits where an alice band would be, rather than around the crown of your head, then the crown of the hat can have a circular rather than oval profile. Claire ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Quilted petticoat--earliest usage?
Hi I'm 2/3s done with the quilting on my petticoat. The question came up of how early these were used...I've seen mid 17th cent...any one have any earlier sightings? (can ya tell I jump from year 1 to 18th cent in one big hop? VBG) Ta Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] CC27 historical judge talks about workmanship and historical interpretation
On May 8, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Käthe Barrows wrote: Of course, there are periods where a raw edge is more authentic than finished edges. But if you'd documented the lack of seam finish, and if your other hand-sewing was good, the lack of seam finish would have looked deliberate, not like an oversight. One difficulty is that cloth was fulled much better in various historic periods than what's available now. There are some fulled fabrics available, but more expensive. Anyway, as pointed out earlier, sometimes raw edges are appropriate. So what happens when someone uses a non-period appropriate seam finish to accommodate a not-quite-period fabric? Frequently for 18thC, reenactors will make shifts with French seams (an easy finish with machine sewing), but flat-fell is the way they were done at the time. Likewise with sergeing, would that be better than a raw edge? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] CC27 historical judge talks about workmanship and historical
On May 9, 2009, at 8:11 AM, debloughcostu...@aol.com wrote: But period correct fabrics are more than available (easily), like fulled wools, (admittedly I do live near several of the best wool mills in Europe), Must be nice! :-) It's all a matter of compromise — the correct fulled wools may be more expensive, or perhaps someone wants a particular color and can't find it in the right weight. I've thrown wool into the dyepot and then had it come out fuzzier than it started. and flat felled seams are just as easy as french on a sewing machine. However there is the idea that machine sewing should not be visible in pre-machine tie periods. Of course there is also the argument that good backstitching looks like machine sewing on the top side. :-) And then there is finding a linen thread smooth enough to run through a machine. Overlocking may be necessary, but only if you're using the wrong finish or technique, and hand overcasting using something like whipstitch is just as easy, if a little more time consuming (not much when you take into account the setting up of the machine) - and I can't think offhand of a period when overcasting wouldn't be correct - it was around during early medieval times and tudor times, and it still was by victorian and mid 20th century. While overcasting can be found, it still depends on which garment and/or which fabric. 18th century shifts and shirts were flat- felled, for example. In reenactment, we have the luxury of concentrating on one time period and can learn the details. I'm a big fan of basic standards for groups. Within that, individuals learn and make their own compromises. There may be a conflict of technique vs. the overall look — the machine French seam with the non-offensive exterior appearance. Judges of competitions have a difficult job of determining which compromise is better than another, not to mention comparing work portraying different time periods! -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] CC27 historical judge talks about workmanship and historical
Judges of competitions have a difficult job of determining which compromise is better than another, not to mention comparing work portraying different time periods! On May 9, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Käthe Barrows wrote: Don't start thinking one period is compared to another period in Historical masquerades. They aren't. Entrants with simple costumes are often daunted by the big mid-Victorian or high Georgian stuff. But their presentations can be just as compelling as Anne Bolyn's was this year (I still get goosebumps). And just as simple as the 1959 Dior. I didn't say the time periods were compared in that sense. I said the work. I suppose some of it is a documentation issue. Since we were talking about seam finishes, for example, information on that is not available for all time periods. For some periods there are extant garments and sewing manuals. For others, all we have are illustrations. Given that there are more things to have to sew for an 1870s or 1880s outfit, the simple Medieval entrant could point to raising the period breed of sheep, and to hand spinning, hand weaving, hand dying, hand embroidery, and hand stitched construction, none of which were common practice for rich city women in the Industrial Revolution. And good fit was good fit, whenever it was. So you're saying that judging these very different skills against each other is not difficult? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Temporary facial hair
Don't they offer beards outside, like the stoning scene in Life of Brian? :-D -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bowing to the inevitable
On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: I really can't see reading Twitter, it sounds like my idea of Hell. You add each person you want to follow — so you can control the signal to noise ratio. I imagine it's handy for people who are away from their computers for most of the day since one can set it up to send the tweets as text messages to the phone. In which case they would have a data plan for the phone... Some people post maybe three interesting things in a week, and others let the world know each day that they woke up and had breakfast, showered, had lunch, etc... I don't follow those. It could also be useful to share experiences while on vacation or at a convention. I very much prefer the messages to come in through e-mail. There are so many forums now where you have to go to a different web page to check them. Some I check every day, others maybe once a month and next thing you know it's been a few months since I looked at it. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
We are used to certain rules in dress, but sometimes ethnic (anything not English) will break those rules. The image you showed looks like a jacket. There were stays with detachable sleeves that are meant to be an outer garment, up to the middle of the 18thC. For 17thC, there are boned jackets that appear to not need stays underneath. For stays and a wool jacket, it depends on the structure and fit of the jacket — does it need a few bones to be smooth? You may decide to do this after it's made. The pattern draft someone put on Flickr is lifted from _Corsets Crinolines_ by Norah Waugh. I made one of those. The problem I had was, with the armscyes so low, the lacing gapped at the bustline due to the pressure of the armscyes. I made mine with cording, and with stiffer boning (or boning down the center front, at least) perhaps that would not happen. -Carol On Aug 9, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Hi, I am going to do an early 17th century woman's middle class dress, location: Bohemia (today's Czech Republic, east of Germany if someone doesn't know), time: 1618-1648. I want it to look like this: http://link.library.utoronto.ca/hollar/digobject.cfm? Idno=Hollar_k_1716query=Hollar_k_1716size=largetype=browse I have some questions regarding the bodice and stays. First of all, I assume I should use stays (I prefer stays to boned bodices). Then, if I use stays, shall I do some light boning to the bodice as well? It'll be light wool lined with linen. I don't really know how shall the stays look like. I have only found this: http://www.manchestergalleries.org/the-collections/ search-the-collection/image.php? EMUSESSID=bf812423145fbba6ba4d441b7ec2ec13imageirn=400682r=51445954 from this era, but I'm not sure about the style...I thought I should do some traditional type of stays with lacing at the back...do you have any pictures of other surviving garments (corsets) from the 1st half of 17th century? The bodice should be pointed, cut at the waist, probably with tabs, and with something like princess seams. I think I should keep to this pattern: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hkoslov/1354051356/in/ set-72157601949667448/ For the stays and bodice, but again, it's a bit too late. What do you think? Thanks, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Venetian Carnevale Gown
On Aug 11, 2009, at 4:05 PM, Michael Hamilton wrote: My wife and I are living in Italy for a few years, and have made a goal to go to Carnevale in Venice next February. What a wonderful opportunity! I've been searching the web for examples and patterns to work from for her gown. But, most of what turns up seems to be French fashion. Maybe it's true that the French fashion dominated Europe in the 18th century, esp. the late 18th century, which is the era I'm looking at. But, is there anything particularly Italian or even Venetian with respect dress? Venetian images tend to be of Carnavale, usually with masks and an over-the-top sort of look. They also look a bit fuller to my eye, but that may be the fancy dress / costume aspect of them. In particular, so far most of what I've found is the Robe a la Francese or sack dress. I really like the sleeves, with the lace trim, and the front, with the pointed stomacher and the layered skirts sweeping open in the front. But, I really don't like the sack part in the back. I've looked at patterns for a Robe a la Inglese, and Polonese, but, really don't like it as much in general. In particular, I find the skirt isn't as nice. You said late century; how late? The popularity of these styles changed through the decades. I am honestly not totally committed to historical accuracy, but, I'd like to not embarrass myself, either. In that case are you really concerned about a specific historic era? You could pick the style of gown you like and embellish it. Besides masks, they seemed to use fans and hats to conceal identity. In particular, I'm a little dubious about having a separate stomacher, rather than something more one-piece. Stomachers are another aspect of fashion that were in use for some years but not the entire century. The benefit of a separate stomacher, however, is that the fit of the gown can be adjusted. Also you can make more than one and change the look of the ensemble. I'd even stoop to a back zipper if I had to (I hear your gasps of horror and ask for your patience, again). Why in the back? Gowns were front-fastening for the most part, so why not do that? Do you have to get in and out of the gown quickly? You already said you are making stays. Stays are adjustable so the gown needs some flexibility in the fit, too. Even if you used hooks eyes instead of straight pins, you might find they need to be moved from year to year. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait
That's a chemise dress. It would have been linen or cotton. Yes,they made it that sheer back then. On Aug 12, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote: Hello, My mad scramble to get myself ready for Costume College left me with a new goal, but I'm very uncertain about fabric. I want to make this gown: http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/big/marie14a.jpg I know that there are other copies of this image on the web, but this was the first one I found just now. What fabric would you use for this? It is certainly semi-sheer, more so than voile. Silk chiffon would be too soft, silk organza possibly too stiff? I just can't decide. Laurie T. Phoenix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait
On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:29 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote: Yes, that is the infamous chemise gown and would have been made of lightweight linen or cotton--supposed Marie Antoinette adopted the style worn by the Creoles in the hot and steamy Caribbean. It is possible that, during the time, an even more sheer linen or cotton was used for the ruffles, although I had always thought the sleeve ruffle was a continuation of the sleeve made by drawing it up. There is a pattern for an extant English chemise dress in Cut of Women's Clothes. There are extant items that do have an applied ruffle of finer fabric. For example, there are shifts with the sleeve gathered into a band and then a ruffle added to the band. In the images, the double ruffle at the neck would be applied. A really narrow cuff band would make it easier to control the way the sleeve ruffle falls. Just using a drawstring, the fullness might migrate toward the elbow, affecting the ruffle. Even though the look is styled after something simple, I can imagine that Marie Antionette's dressmakers would do a more precise job of it. The hemmed edges look like hemmed edges to me. Bias tape was not in use at the time, even binding an uneven edge they were using a flat woven tape. For suitable fabrics, I do remember seeing fine shirt-quality linen, but it's pretty expensive. It might be easier (and cheaper) to find a good shirt cotton. Unfortunately, when looking for sheers, handkerchief linen is sheer but coarse. Have you searched for cotton lawn? Some of the home decorating catalogs stores carry sheer cotton curtains. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Color dye mixing
Test it first. I once had some teal wool that I wanted to dye navy, and the dye did nothing. Then I treated it with a color remover, and got a school-bus yellow, which took the navy dye perfectly. Whatever that teal dye was, it saturated the fibers so nothing more could be added. A test would have meant just a little bit of dye and a lot less agitation of the wool, although it came through ok. -Carol On Sep 25, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Alexandria Doyle wrote: I have a length of wool that is a fushia color that I would like to take to burgundy. any suggestions on the colors to add to the fushia to get burgundy? I was thinking blue, but don't want to go purple... alex ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pattern Question - 18th C. Caraco - Butterick 3640
Hi Laurie, I'm looking at making do with Butterick 3640, view A. I do realize that this is one of the Big 4 companies' silly attempts at historical accuracy, and therefore, not period correct. Some of it I can live with, and some I can fix. I'm trying to decide what really needs fixing. Actually, some of the patterns are being made by better designers and more period correct. That one looks like it's meant to go over stays, which is a great start. Fabric and trimming choice is what will really make a difference in the look of the gown. If the Butterick were worn over period skirt supports, how far would it still be from anything that actually existed in period? Would the changes to make it more period be reasonable or not worth the effort? I've been browsing through paintings of the period, but have not found anything that resembles the Butterick. Depends on the decade and the supports you are considering. The photos look good to me. There are two styles, the casual jacket and the gown that can be more formal. A long gown, plain, can also be middle or lower class. Also, as pictured on the pattern envelope, is the high contrast of the yellow ground of the upper dress/caracao to the blue petticoat correct for period? My fabric has a deep red ground and I'm trying to decide if the skirt/petticoat should be something in the same shade of red, maybe solid, or if I should go for a contrast. The blue looks a bit loud. A gown with a matching (same fabric) petticoat is more formal. Not matching (contrast or coordinating) is an undress look. The better fabric would be the upper garment — print vs. solid, for example. What year in the 18thC are you aiming for? That would help determine how you can use the pattern. You said late, and in the 90s fashion changed quite a bit, heading toward the Federal/Regency/ Directorie lines. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] How to do a regency-era neckline
That was my thought, too — not a single twisted tube, but faked somehow. I thought it might be cut into a separate piece for each twist, but I suppose two strips could work as Sharon suggests. How about that front embellishment? Is that like a really tiny spaghetti strap, maybe with a cord inside or the seam allowance to puff it out? -Carol On Oct 25, 2009, at 4:33 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: I'm probably completely wrong on this, but I looked at the picture at 400% zoom, and it looks like 2 pieces wrapped around each other. That way you could have one finished edge (maybe by folding the fabric over the cord and sewing, leaving the 2 raw edges one side) which was then sewn to the neck edge. Having 2 strips of piped edging means you could fudge the rolling and make it look like it spiraled, when in fact it didn't. But like I said, I'm probably wrong. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Aylwen Garden Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:30 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] How to do a regency-era neckline I'm trying to reproduce the neckline at http://www.sensibility.com/vintageimages/1800s/images/ 1820sdress.jpg . The trim has piping on each side before it is rolled and tacked onto the dress. Can anyone show/tell me how this is done, so that it doesn't show any raw edges? Bye for now, Aylwen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
