Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
Dear Matthew, The difference between a relational database and a hierarchical one (or, for that matter, a polymorphic one like FileMan) has to do with how it models the world. All databases exist to record an abstract model of pieces of the world. Databases are usually structured as files (or tables or classes), each of which lists entities of a similar kind, such as patients, or drugs, or visits. Just as the file represents a category of entities, so each record (or entry or row or object or instance) in that file represents a specific entity, such as a specific patient, a specific drug, or a specific visit. Databases, files, and records are not the real things they represent, only abstract representations of them. An entry in the patient file is not a real patient, but an abstraction of a patient, a metaphor for that patient. Very much as with poetry, the more closely that metaphor matches the important parts of the real thing it represents, the more powerful the metaphor, the more meaningful, and from the perspective of medical informatics, the more likely it is to assist in improving patient health. Whether you have the right information and whether you have organized it into the right metaphor is largely dictated by how that information will be used--that tells you which operations can be inefficient and which need to be efficient, which tells you how to balance the tradeoffs that are always involved. A good database designer chooses apt metaphors that match well the kinds of information the clients need to record. The strategic part of that choice involves selecting the right database paradigm; the tactical part is using that paradigm effectively. WHICH data a file records is up to the file designer, but HOW that data is stored is up to the database paradigm you choose (relational, hierarchical, network, polymorphic, object-oriented, etc.). As with successful adaptation in nature, the secret to success lies not with rigid orthodoxy but with responsive flexibility, varying your approach to let each problem dictate its own best solution. Relational databases represent files as tables, records as rows, fields as columns. This is the spreadsheet's view of the world. In truth, spreadsheets are excellent for certain categories of problems (e.g., inventories of parts), and terrible for others (e.g., Beethoven's Pastorale piano sonata). The relational database is no more the perfect solution to every problem than is the hammer. Neither is it the wrong solution for every problem. It must be used appropriately, to solve those problems for which it is well-suited. Relational purists, those who insist every database problem must be solved relationally, love the reductionist simplicity of having only a single metaphor for all problems, and argue that by reducing all problems to this common form you increase interoperability. This assertion is false. When used universally and rigidly, the relational metaphor becomes a Procrustean bed, stretching short people and cutting off the legs of tall people so they all fit perfectly in the same size bed. A relational solution is most apt for atomic information bound by simple keys, or for groups of such entities likely to be sorted different ways at different times, in which there is no clear way they are usually organized. It is weak at representing asymmetrical relationships, and does not represent behavior at all (making it incompatible with the object-oriented approach to modeling the world has increasingly favored over the last quarter century). The things left out of the relational model are just as important to creating a good model as are the things it includes, and often turn what may appear to be the trivial problem of making two relational systems share data into a nightmare of hidden assumptions and missing relationships. Monomaniacal devotion to the relational model (or any one technology) is based on the common but erroneous belief that most software problems are technological problems, that using a common technology removes the most important barriers. In actuality, software is a human communication and relationship problem far more than a technical one, consisting of struggling to understand and communicate our needs, first to each other, then to the computer and whoever maintains the code over the decades that follow. Arguing that common use of a relational model solves interoperability is like arguing that world peace has been solved by having all human beings share the same DNA; the proposed solution does not match the context of the problem. FileMan is a polymorphic database management system. You can use a relational approach when that is appropriate, hierarchical when that is, and so on. It does not fully implement any of these paradigms, but it does enough of most of them to give us a reasonable solution to most the database problems we have faced
[Hardhats-members] Re: OpenVistA VivA FOIA Gold 20050825 available
On Sun, 2005-09-18 at 18:30 -0400, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: [KSB] ...snip... Note that this DVD includes an icon that starts the CPRS GUI under wine. With an installation of the unconfigured database as distributed, it comes up to ask for the id and access code. I don't know enough to configure a VistA database to accept connections, but it at least gets as far sa the login screen. One hiccup is that the splash screen does not go away - perhaps it will after a successful login; I just don't know. But this is the first time that a single CD/DVD demo of VistA +CPRS even appears within reach, so I feel encouraged. (Also, the CPRS GUI no longer looks ugly - all it needed was to have the msttcorefonts package installed). I hope that someone in the VistA community will know enough to configure a database for a successful CPRS session, as well as perhaps tweak the CPRS GUI and/or wine to get the splash screen to go away. [KSB] Please let me make it clear that CPRS under wine is experimental, and I was told yesterday that it gets tantalizingly close, but doesn't quite work. Your mileage may vary. The mantra of open source is to release early, release often, so please play with it, report your experiences, contribute your improvements, etc. -- Bhaskar --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Help with vista
Hi my name is samuel and i want to know how i add a Ward Location in vista. Thanks, Samuel __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Configuring a box:volume set for the domain, taskman, and RPC Broker
A Vista configuration question involving the box:volume pair set: Given a call to GETENV^%ZOSV on the machine being configured which produces Y = VAH^ROU^ov0^ROU:ov0 Can anyone tell me: 1. does this volume set appear correct in the Volume Set file? 2. does the Box:Volume Pair appear correct in the TaskMan Site Paramaters, and RPC Broker Site Parameters files? 3. Also, can you elaborate somewhat on these fields? Thank you, gmartinson The dialog below pertains to the Domain configuration instruction from page http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=Configuring_A_Domain Select OPTION: INQUIRE TO FILE ENTRIES OUTPUT FROM WHAT FILE: VOLUME SET// Select VOLUME SET: ?? Choose from: OV0-- Added to file in configuration process ROU-- Added to file in configuration process VISTA -- Predefined in distribution Select VOLUME SET: OV0 ANOTHER ONE: ROY STANDARD CAPTIONED OUTPUT? Yes// (Yes) Include COMPUTED fields: (N/Y/R/B): NO// Y Computed Fields VOLUME SET: OV0 INHIBIT LOGONS?: NO LINK ACCESS?: YES OUT OF SERVICE?: NO REQUIRED VOLUME SET?: NO TASKMAN FILES UCI: VAH TASKMAN FILES VOLUME SET: OV0 DAYS TO KEEP OLD TASKS: 4 TYPE: GENERAL PURPOSE VOLUME SET SIGNON/PRODUCTION VOLUME SET: Yes VOLUME SET: ROU INHIBIT LOGONS?: NO LINK ACCESS?: YES OUT OF SERVICE?: NO REQUIRED VOLUME SET?: NO TASKMAN FILES UCI: VAH TASKMAN FILES VOLUME SET: ROU DAYS TO KEEP OLD TASKS: 4 TYPE: GENERAL PURPOSE VOLUME SET SIGNON/PRODUCTION VOLUME SET: Yes Select OPTION: 1 ENTER OR EDIT FILE ENTRIES INPUT TO WHAT FILE: TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS// EDIT WHICH FIELD: ALL// Select TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS BOX-VOLUME PAIR: ? Answer with TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS BOX-VOLUME PAIR Choose from: VISTA:NTA -- Appears defined by system based on parameters. VISTA:NTB . -- Appears defined by system based on parameters. You may enter a new TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS, if you wish Answer must be 3-30 characters in length. The value for the current account is ROU:ov0-- Appears defined by system based on parameters. Select TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS BOX-VOLUME PAIR: Select OPTION: Select OPTION: ENTER OR EDIT FILE ENTRIES INPUT TO WHAT FILE: RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS// EDIT WHICH FIELD: ALL// Select RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME: ? Answer with RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME, or STATUS: OV0.ABCISP.COM You may enter a new RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS, if you wish Answer with DOMAIN NAME Do you want the entire 17-Entry DOMAIN List? N (No) Select RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME: OV0.ABCISP.COM ...OK? Yes// (Yes) DOMAIN NAME: OV0.ABCISP.COM// MAIL GROUP FOR ALERTS: Select BOX-VOLUME PAIR: VISTA:NTA// BOX-VOLUME PAIR: VISTA:NTA// Select PORT: 9210// PORT: 9210// TYPE OF LISTENER: Original// STATUS: STOPPED// CONTROLLED BY LISTENER STARTER: YES// Select RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME: End of Dialog --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program
Hi i want to know if there is a way to escape a program while it is runnig, so i will be able to see the exact code line in that moment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Wow, this query file by number is NICE and PTF
http://vista.vmth.ucdavis.edu/query/?dbfile=1index=FileNoformat=NAMElimit=200start=1.11 I never looked at it before, even though I recalled being told it was there. I was trying to find out what the heck PTF was, and found it there. And I also found this here: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/suppl_2/b22 PTF, Patient Treatment File Hospital data. The PTF files are analogous to hospital discharge abstracts and include basic demographic data as well as principal, primary, and nine secondary ICD-9-CM codes. In the VA, the primary diagnosis code refers to the condition that accounted for the majority of the hospital stay. The principal diagnosis code, which was added in FY1997, refers to the diagnosis that led to hospitalization. In addition to the main PTF file, surgeries and procedures files are also available. The surgeries file contains ICD-9-CM procedure codes for surgical procedures (e.g., coronary artery bypass surgery) performed in the operating room, whereas the procedures file includes codes (e.g., cardiac catheterization) for procedures performed outside the operating room. The surgeries file has an observation for each surgery performed during an episode of care, and up to five codes per surgery may be listed. The procedures file includes an observation for each day procedures occurred during the hospitalization, and up to five procedures may be listed. There is a maximum of 32 observations per hospitalization or episode of care resulting in a maximum of 160 procedure codes. In addition to hospital or acute care, the PTF includes extended care (VA nursing home), observation (outpatient surgery), and non-VA care (care provided in facilities with which the VA contracts). -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Configuring a box:volume set for the domain, taskman, and RPC Broker
The box:volume pair is really the volume:box pair, so your volume is ROU. Ov) is the box or node name. You need to take a look at the instructions on the hardhats site which is essentially the same for all distributions after the Cache specific initial 39 steps or so. http://www.hardhats.org/projects/VistA_Install/Vista_Install.html The domain does not get established in Taskman in those instructions. It gets set and christened in a different way. I would just ignore or put out of service those other two that are there already there, or it may be that changing their namesis OK, too. I put them out of service and so far have not seemed to have suffered from doing that in the VA Demo, although I confess not being sure it is the best way to handle it. On Tuesday 20 September 2005 06:33 am, gm wrote: A Vista configuration question involving the box:volume pair set: Given a call to GETENV^%ZOSV on the machine being configured which produces Y = VAH^ROU^ov0^ROU:ov0 Can anyone tell me: 1. does this volume set appear correct in the Volume Set file? 2. does the Box:Volume Pair appear correct in the TaskMan Site Paramaters, and RPC Broker Site Parameters files? 3. Also, can you elaborate somewhat on these fields? Thank you, gmartinson The dialog below pertains to the Domain configuration instruction from page http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=Configuring_A_Domain Select OPTION: INQUIRE TO FILE ENTRIES OUTPUT FROM WHAT FILE: VOLUME SET// Select VOLUME SET: ?? Choose from: OV0-- Added to file in configuration process ROU-- Added to file in configuration process VISTA -- Predefined in distribution Select VOLUME SET: OV0 ANOTHER ONE: ROY STANDARD CAPTIONED OUTPUT? Yes// (Yes) Include COMPUTED fields: (N/Y/R/B): NO// Y Computed Fields VOLUME SET: OV0 INHIBIT LOGONS?: NO LINK ACCESS?: YES OUT OF SERVICE?: NO REQUIRED VOLUME SET?: NO TASKMAN FILES UCI: VAH TASKMAN FILES VOLUME SET: OV0 DAYS TO KEEP OLD TASKS: 4 TYPE: GENERAL PURPOSE VOLUME SET SIGNON/PRODUCTION VOLUME SET: Yes VOLUME SET: ROU INHIBIT LOGONS?: NO LINK ACCESS?: YES OUT OF SERVICE?: NO REQUIRED VOLUME SET?: NO TASKMAN FILES UCI: VAH TASKMAN FILES VOLUME SET: ROU DAYS TO KEEP OLD TASKS: 4 TYPE: GENERAL PURPOSE VOLUME SET SIGNON/PRODUCTION VOLUME SET: Yes Select OPTION: 1 ENTER OR EDIT FILE ENTRIES INPUT TO WHAT FILE: TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS// EDIT WHICH FIELD: ALL// Select TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS BOX-VOLUME PAIR: ? Answer with TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS BOX-VOLUME PAIR Choose from: VISTA:NTA -- Appears defined by system based on parameters. VISTA:NTB . -- Appears defined by system based on parameters. You may enter a new TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS, if you wish Answer must be 3-30 characters in length. The value for the current account is ROU:ov0-- Appears defined by system based on parameters. Select TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS BOX-VOLUME PAIR: Select OPTION: Select OPTION: ENTER OR EDIT FILE ENTRIES INPUT TO WHAT FILE: RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS// EDIT WHICH FIELD: ALL// Select RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME: ? Answer with RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME, or STATUS: OV0.ABCISP.COM You may enter a new RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS, if you wish Answer with DOMAIN NAME Do you want the entire 17-Entry DOMAIN List? N (No) Select RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME: OV0.ABCISP.COM ...OK? Yes// (Yes) DOMAIN NAME: OV0.ABCISP.COM// MAIL GROUP FOR ALERTS: Select BOX-VOLUME PAIR: VISTA:NTA// BOX-VOLUME PAIR: VISTA:NTA// Select PORT: 9210// PORT: 9210// TYPE OF LISTENER: Original// STATUS: STOPPED// CONTROLLED BY LISTENER STARTER: YES// Select RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS DOMAIN NAME: End of Dialog --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program
The answer is that it depends. In a production environment, you are going to want to disable this (of course), but during development, you might considere enabling keyboard interrupts, and using a simple control-C (interrupt) or control-Z (suspend). But keep in mind tha this is for development only! --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi i want to know if there is a way to escape a program while it is runnig, so i will be able to see the exact code line in that moment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: CMS NEWS: ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE DELIVERED TO, PHYSICIAN OFFICES
This headline is extremely misleading. Vista-Office is not being 'delivered to physician offices'. Does anyone else think that it is VERY unfair to only provide the Beta test through commercial vendors? My office would otherwise qualify for the test, had I not wasted 15 years and countless thousands of dollars on computer systems from vendors. With apologies to any honest vendor out there, I ain't goin' down that road again. This is supposed to be Open source! Mike --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:29:12 -0400 From: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] [Fwd: FW: CMS NEWS: ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE DELIVERED TO PHYSICIAN OFFICES] Reply-To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net FYI. Joseph *MEDICARE NEWS* For Immediate release CMS Office of Media Affairs September 19, 2005 *CMS DELIVERS ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE TO PHYSICIAN OFFICES* *Evaluation Version Of Vista-Office Expected To Improve Quality of Care And Stem Costs* The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) today released an evaluation version of VistA-Office Electronic Health Record (Vista-Office), an adaptation of the Veterans Health Administration electronic health record (EHR) technology. This version of the technology will allow for an evaluation of VistA-Office EHR and an assessment of its effectiveness in private physicians offices. The evaluation version will be distributed by qualified vendors and evaluated for usability, effectiveness, implementation and potential for what is known as interoperability, or the ability to communicate, exchange, and use data with other systems and software. As a result of this evaluation, software vendors will be able to further improve the software and develop a version of VistA-Office EHR that is certified in accordance with a process recognized by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). “The President has set a national goal for most Americans to have an electronic health record within a decade, and CMS is working with providers to make that happen,” said CMS Administrator Mark B. McClellan, M.D., Ph.D. “The release of an evaluation version of VistA-Office will provide a testing laboratory for interoperability and will supplement efforts by the American Health Information Community to establish a certification criteria and process. When fully realized, electronic health record software will help physicians improve health care quality while avoiding unnecessary costs.” A certification process will identify standards and minimum requirements to allow electronic health record systems to share important data across settings of care and perform the most important functions of an electronic health record system while maintaining privacy and security of data. EHRs that become certified and that can enable the reporting of quality measures will support CMS quality improvement goals. These systems will also help achieve a national goal of widespread adoption of interoperable EHRs within ten years. The release will also allow for the evaluation of VistA-Office EHR in physician offices, with particular attention to whether and how physician offices can implement the software effectively. This process will take place while HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt, through the Community, considers approaches for certifying interoperability and functional capabilities of electronic health records systems. The modified Vista-Office software retains existing VistA functions of such transactions as order entry, documentation templates, and clinical reminders, and is enhanced with other important functions including physician office patient registration, reporting of quality measures, and printing/faxing of medication prescriptions. The Vista-Office evaluation software is not “free” software. There is a small fee for obtaining the software on computer disk, and there will be other fees
Re: [Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program
Thanks greg but how do i enable keyboard interrupts? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer is that it depends. In a production environment, you are going to want to disable this (of course), but during development, you might considere enabling keyboard interrupts, and using a simple control-C (interrupt) or control-Z (suspend). But keep in mind tha this is for development only! --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi i want to know if there is a way to escape a program while it is runnig, so i will be able to see the exact code line in that moment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program
Usually, they are enabled by default and have to be explicitly disabled. If you want to break out of a program, just enter GT.M or Cache directly, and sign in with D ^XUP. (Don't sign in the usual way using ^ZU). But, again, I emphasize that this is not something you want to do in production, because if users are allowed to break out of a program, they basically have free run of the system. --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks greg but how do i enable keyboard interrupts? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer is that it depends. In a production environment, you are going to want to disable this (of course), but during development, you might considere enabling keyboard interrupts, and using a simple control-C (interrupt) or control-Z (suspend). But keep in mind tha this is for development only! --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi i want to know if there is a way to escape a program while it is runnig, so i will be able to see the exact code line in that moment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Help with vista
Hi my name is samuel and i want to know how i add a Ward Location in vista. Thanks, Samuel I am not an MAS (Medical Adminstration Service) ADPAC (Automated Data Processing Application Coordinator) but I put a page on the wiki: http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=Adding_A_Ward_Location This is an example of how to do it, but should be evaluated by someone who understands MAS better than I do. David --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Re: CMS NEWS: ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE DELIVERED TO, PHYSICIAN OFFICES
This whole thing VISTA-OFFICE is entirely unfair not only to the physicians but also to vendors. I feel like it is being controlled by some group. This VA software is FOIA and supposed to be open source but I have to take a test now if I want to support a physician's office. What if I want to help a clinic? Does that mean that I am not a qualified vendor? I have 20 years experience with VISTA and installed VISTA/CPRS for a private physician in 2001 down in Raleigh, NC without any problem and now I have to be tested to support it. Whatever happened to business opportunities? I think the software should be available to everyone and let anybody who wants to support it, support it. Why all these bureaucrats? I am sorry. I know I am going to probably get a lot of email back for this but I don't really care. I have installed VISTA/CPRS many times and I can probably do it without VISTA-OFFICE software anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Schrom Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:05 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Re: CMS NEWS: ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE DELIVERED TO, PHYSICIAN OFFICES This headline is extremely misleading. Vista-Office is not being 'delivered to physician offices'. Does anyone else think that it is VERY unfair to only provide the Beta test through commercial vendors? My office would otherwise qualify for the test, had I not wasted 15 years and countless thousands of dollars on computer systems from vendors. With apologies to any honest vendor out there, I ain't goin' down that road again. This is supposed to be Open source! Mike --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:29:12 -0400 From: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] [Fwd: FW: CMS NEWS: ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE DELIVERED TO PHYSICIAN OFFICES] Reply-To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net FYI. Joseph *MEDICARE NEWS* For Immediate release CMS Office of Media Affairs September 19, 2005 *CMS DELIVERS ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE TO PHYSICIAN OFFICES* *Evaluation Version Of Vista-Office Expected To Improve Quality of Care And Stem Costs* The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) today released an evaluation version of VistA-Office Electronic Health Record (Vista-Office), an adaptation of the Veterans Health Administration electronic health record (EHR) technology. This version of the technology will allow for an evaluation of VistA-Office EHR and an assessment of its effectiveness in private physicians offices. The evaluation version will be distributed by qualified vendors and evaluated for usability, effectiveness, implementation and potential for what is known as interoperability, or the ability to communicate, exchange, and use data with other systems and software. As a result of this evaluation, software vendors will be able to further improve the software and develop a version of VistA-Office EHR that is certified in accordance with a process recognized by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). The President has set a national goal for most Americans to have an electronic health record within a decade, and CMS is working with providers to make that happen, said CMS Administrator Mark B. McClellan, M.D., Ph.D. The release of an evaluation version of VistA-Office will provide a testing laboratory for interoperability and will supplement efforts by the American Health Information Community to establish a certification criteria and process. When fully realized, electronic health record software will help physicians improve health care quality while avoiding unnecessary costs. A certification process will identify standards and minimum requirements to allow electronic health record systems to share important data across settings of care and perform the most important functions of an electronic health record system while maintaining privacy and security of data. EHRs that become certified and that can enable the reporting of quality measures will support CMS quality improvement goals. These systems will also help achieve a
[Hardhats-members] CMS Releases Beta VOE
September 19th, 2005 CMS released an 'evaluation version' of the highly anticipated Vista Office EHR (VOE) according to a CMS website press release. Highlights of the press release are that apparently CMS is going to evaluate how implementations are working at a limited number of beta test sites, then consider standards for 'certification criteria and process' through WorldVistA. More information, including system requirements and what makes a beta test site can be found at www.vista-office.org. There does not appear to be a place in which anyone can download the software and I read this to mean there probably won't be one unless you qualify as a beta test site or qualified vendor. More links, the complete story and press release can be found: http://www.linuxmednews.com/1127228217/index_html --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
--- Frederick D. S. Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Matthew, [...] All databases exist to record an abstract model of pieces of the world. Databases are usually structured as files (or tables or classes), each of which lists entities of a similar kind, such as patients, or drugs, or visits. Just as the file represents a category of entities, so each record (or entry or row or object or instance) in that file represents a specific entity, such as a specific patient, a specific drug, or a specific visit. Databases, files, and records are not the real things they represent, only abstract representations of them. An entry in the patient file is not a real patient, but an abstraction of a patient, a metaphor for that patient. Very much as with poetry, the more closely that metaphor matches the important parts of the real thing it represents, the more powerful the metaphor, the more meaningful, and from the perspective of medical informatics, the more likely it is to assist in improving patient health. Whether you have the right information and whether you have organized it into the right metaphor is largely dictated by how that information will be used--that tells you which operations can be inefficient and which need to be efficient, which tells you how to balance the tradeoffs that are always involved. A good database designer chooses apt metaphors that match well the kinds of information the clients need to record. The strategic part of that choice involves selecting the right database paradigm; the tactical part is using that paradigm effectively. WHICH data a file records is up to the file designer, but HOW that data is stored is up to the database paradigm you choose (relational, hierarchical, network, polymorphic, object-oriented, etc.). As with successful adaptation in nature, the secret to success lies not with rigid orthodoxy but with responsive flexibility, varying your approach to let each problem dictate its own best solution. I find it useful to think in terms of data types. I believe that what you are saying here is that it is important to abstract away from the primitives used to implement other types. Just as pointers are the basic primitive used in a language like Pascal to implement abstract data types, tuples and relations are the basic primitives used in the relational world to model other structures. I believe it is unnecessarily narrow (and in fact, a caricature of the relational model) to think of the table as the basic *abstraction* of this model. That would be like saying pointers and subfiles are the basic abstractions with which one works in Fileman. That's just not true. They are *primitives* used to model abstractions that can be quite complex. Think about this way: Bricks and mortar may be used to construct buildings (well, maybe not out here in earthquaqke country), but when an architect looks at a building, (s)he does not see (just) brick and mortar. There is much more that can be said about buildings than simply that they are built out of certain fundamental components. [...] === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] vista settings
Hi my machine suddenly turn off due to electricity problems while i was running vista. Now i try to run vista again and it wont work. This is what happened: _ GTMD ^XUP Setting up programmer environment GTM _ I want to know if there is a way to fix vista without reinstalling it. Thanks, Samuel __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
I like Rick's point about metaphors here. Regardless how expressive a model may be, the set of tools provided by a DBMS does tend to influence the way we model. The basic data type in LISP (List Processing) is the list, and it is no great surtprise that a LISP programmer will be more likely to think about a problem in terms of (nested) lists than a C programmer. Similarly, MUMPS arrays are different from C arrays or Perl hashes, and the basic abstraction supported by the language DOES influence they way MUMPS programmers see the world. But whether, the basic tools you have available are lists, array, decorated trees (globals) or relations, you are able to express and work with structures much more complex than those directly supported by the language. There is reason why there are so many programming languages out there, even if they are computationally equivalent, and that is some make tasks of a certain type easier. Similarly, there is no right database model. The relational model has been tremendously successful, and is in some ways the database analog of Algol-like programming languages (Algol/68, Pascal, Ada, C, ...) which have been similarly successful and influential in the theory of programming languages. But the relational model no more renders other models (such as the Fileman model) irrelevant or useless, than Pascal renders Scheme or Haskell irrelevant. --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Frederick D. S. Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Matthew, [...] All databases exist to record an abstract model of pieces of the world. Databases are usually structured as files (or tables or classes), each of which lists entities of a similar kind, such as patients, or drugs, or visits. Just as the file represents a category of entities, so each record (or entry or row or object or instance) in that file represents a specific entity, such as a specific patient, a specific drug, or a specific visit. Databases, files, and records are not the real things they represent, only abstract representations of them. An entry in the patient file is not a real patient, but an abstraction of a patient, a metaphor for that patient. Very much as with poetry, the more closely that metaphor matches the important parts of the real thing it represents, the more powerful the metaphor, the more meaningful, and from the perspective of medical informatics, the more likely it is to assist in improving patient health. Whether you have the right information and whether you have organized it into the right metaphor is largely dictated by how that information will be used--that tells you which operations can be inefficient and which need to be efficient, which tells you how to balance the tradeoffs that are always involved. A good database designer chooses apt metaphors that match well the kinds of information the clients need to record. The strategic part of that choice involves selecting the right database paradigm; the tactical part is using that paradigm effectively. WHICH data a file records is up to the file designer, but HOW that data is stored is up to the database paradigm you choose (relational, hierarchical, network, polymorphic, object-oriented, etc.). As with successful adaptation in nature, the secret to success lies not with rigid orthodoxy but with responsive flexibility, varying your approach to let each problem dictate its own best solution. I find it useful to think in terms of data types. I believe that what you are saying here is that it is important to abstract away from the primitives used to implement other types. Just as pointers are the basic primitive used in a language like Pascal to implement abstract data types, tuples and relations are the basic primitives used in the relational world to model other structures. I believe it is unnecessarily narrow (and in fact, a caricature of the relational model) to think of the table as the basic *abstraction* of this model. That would be like saying pointers and subfiles are the basic abstractions with which one works in Fileman. That's just not true. They are *primitives* used to model abstractions that can be quite complex. Think about this way: Bricks and mortar may be used to construct buildings (well, maybe not out here in earthquaqke country), but when an architect looks at a building, (s)he does not see (just) brick and mortar. There is much more that can be said about buildings than simply that they are built out of certain fundamental components. [...] === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your
Re: [Hardhats-members] vista settings
Take a look at this thread from the archives. http://www.mail-archive.com/hardhats-members%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg07949.html I think that someone could/should write several books from all the excellent data there. You can also search on 'rundown GT.M' as well as reading the acculturation CD. http://sourceforge.net/projects/sanchez-gtm/ Hi my machine suddenly turn off due to electricity problems while i was running vista. Now i try to run vista again and it wont work. This is what happened: _ GTMD ^XUP Setting up programmer environment GTM _ I want to know if there is a way to fix vista without reinstalling it. Thanks, Samuel -- Ismet B. Kursunoglu, MD, FCCP Medical Director Alaska Clinic, LLC 3750 Country Field Circle, UNIT B Wasilla, Alaska 99654 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (907)357-7240 --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Help with vista
Please ignore, we figured out how to fix it (mupip rundown). Thanks. Yamir Encarnacion --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks David i will try it. Samuel --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi my name is samuel and i want to know how i add a Ward Location in vista. Thanks, Samuel I am not an MAS (Medical Adminstration Service) ADPAC (Automated Data Processing Application Coordinator) but I put a page on the wiki: http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=Adding_A_Ward_Location This is an example of how to do it, but should be evaluated by someone who understands MAS better than I do. David --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
It's a bit like trying to convince the average home owner in the early 1980's to buy a PC and a DARPA network connection for the purpose of exchanging information with others on the DARPA network. Large institutions came first and exchanged information between them. Even things like e-mail were largely driven by the equivalent of hub and spoke systems. (I consider myself a spoke in the early 80's.) Likewise, major health networks will first need to be in the habit of exchanging complete and partial health records electronically as a matter of everyday practice. At about the same time those same health networks will be providing similar access (and expectations) to smaller organizations and clinics. CMS will likely have a significant role in this as well. Cameron Schlehuber -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christoph Guenther Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:31 AM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect If the author is right on, then what arguments do you use to convince doctors or decision makers in small hospitals or doctor's offices that they should implement EHR? What direct benefits would they derive from this? It becomes a very hard sell if you have to say: Once everyone is using EHR everyone will see the benefits but until then it's not clear what you can gain from it. Furthermore, unless smaller health care providers implemented EHR in sufficient numbers, the benefits of EHR will never be fully realized. What's the way out of this conundrum? Christoph _ Christoph Guenther, Ph.D., CISSP, GSEC Cameron Schlehuber wrote: I haven't seen anyone else's thoughts but I think the author is right on. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:30 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts about http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,104195,0.html?nlid=AM Network Effect Opinion by Frank Hayes --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
How about lowering the barriers to entry? There is a cost as well as a benefit side, too --- Christoph Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the way out of this conundrum? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
Dear Greg, You have put your finger on my point about MUMPS, the relational model, the hierarchical model, and so on--they are just the raw materials. They shape the way we solve the problems we face, but they do not usually prevent us from solving problems. If I am an architectural designer working with a client, the conversation is far more productive if we focus on what the client wants in terms of functionality--a hospital, a house, a bridge--rather than the client wasting their time telling me they have heard that cement is superior to steel. I completely agree that the table is no more the ultimate abstraction of the relational model than the tree is of the hierarchical model. At a panel session at the MTA annual meeting in the mid-nineties, during a discussion of database paradigms, it first occurred to me as I was talking that the relational and hierarchical models were mathematically equivalent, and that an intelligent DBMS should be able to mathematically morph the same data back and forth between the different equivalent structures. This struck me because I was objecting to an audience member who believed that the relational model had invented the ideas of keys, indexes, relationships, and so on. I was trying to explain that all of the major database paradigms share such common concepts, that the differences lay elsewhere. I was just starting to argue it was in the geometry each used to represent one-to-many and many-to-many relationships when it struck me that the work of Greg Shorr for IHS on QMan and of Tami Winn for VHA on the Meta-Data-Dictionary demonstrated their mathematical equivalence. The whole point of abstract data types is to get away from such primitives as trees and tables to metaphors that better match the real things we want to describe--patients, visits, nurses, etc. This is why it is good that object orientation has come to dominate computer science--it is the most ruthlessly committed to strong metaphors. However, the idea of such higher-level abstract data types is in no way specific to the relational model. Most of the interesting things you can do with any database paradigm are common to them all. To answer a question like how are the relational and hierarchical paradigms different, we have to reduce them down to what makes them unique, to caricature them. You are right, though, that it is crucial thereafter to re-generalize, to explain that none of these paradigms are limited to their primitive abstractions. Yours truly, Rick Greg Woodhouse wrote: I find it useful to think in terms of data types. I believe that what you are saying here is that it is important to abstract away from the primitives used to implement other types. Just as pointers are the basic primitive used in a language like Pascal to implement abstract data types, tuples and relations are the basic primitives used in the relational world to model other structures. I believe it is unnecessarily narrow (and in fact, a caricature of the relational model) to think of the table as the basic *abstraction* of this model. That would be like saying pointers and subfiles are the basic abstractions with which one works in Fileman. That's just not true. They are *primitives* used to model abstractions that can be quite complex. Think about this way: Bricks and mortar may be used to construct buildings (well, maybe not out here in earthquaqke country), but when an architect looks at a building, (s)he does not see (just) brick and mortar. There is much more that can be said about buildings than simply that they are built out of certain fundamental components. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] SQL and M. was: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
Dear Cameron, This is why I have taken lately to reminding people that VistA is not written in MUMPS. VistA (well, DHCP anyway) is written in Standard MUMPS. The difference, as you know, is the heart of VistA's portability, and therefore sustainability. Yours truly, Rick Cameron Schlehuber wrote: The 3-tier architecture with SQL at the database tier permits (in theory) the ability to swap vendors of the DBMS. The cost is one of performance unless stored procedures are used ... which then end up tying you to the DBMS vendor. ANSI M provides a way out of that problem since the business logic (usually the middle tier) can be combined with the database and the combination can be ported from one vendor's implementation to another with the exact same code and not have to change any stored procedures as they are part of the ANSI M code. (Though vendors can certainly have a significant impact on performance). Greg wrote: I find it useful to think in terms of data types. I believe that what you are saying here is that it is important to abstract away from the primitives used to implement other types. Just as pointers are the basic primitive used in a language like Pascal to implement abstract data types, tuples and relations are the basic primitives used in the relational world to model other structures. I believe it is unnecessarily narrow (and in fact, a caricature of the relational model) to think of the table as the basic *abstraction* of this model. That would be like saying pointers and subfiles are the basic abstractions with which one works in Fileman. That's just not true. They are *primitives* used to model abstractions that can be quite complex. Think about this way: Bricks and mortar may be used to construct buildings (well, maybe not out here in earthquaqke country), but when an architect looks at a building, (s)he does not see (just) brick and mortar. There is much more that can be said about buildings than simply that they are built out of certain fundamental components. [...] === Gregory Woodhouse --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program
If this is in a Cache environment, check out their debugger... http://platinum.intersystems.com/csp/docbook/DocBook.UI.Page.cls?KEY=GCOS_debug#GCOS_debug_debugger Their debugger allows setting break and watch points, stepping thru code, etc. LJA On 9/20/05, Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Usually, they are enabled by default and have to be explicitlydisabled. If you want to break out of a program, just enter GT.M orCache directly, and sign in with D ^XUP. (Don't sign in the usual wayusing ^ZU). But, again, I emphasize that this is not something you wantto do in production, because if users are allowed to break out of a program, they basically have free run of the system.--- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks greg but how do i enable keyboard interrupts? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer is that it depends. In a production environment, you are going to want to disable this (of course), but during development, you might considere enabling keyboard interrupts, and using a simple control-C (interrupt) or control-Z (suspend). But keep in mind tha this is for development only! --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi i want to know if there is a way to escape a program while it is runnig, so i will be able to see the exact code line in that moment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP.Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse[EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP.Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP.Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members ===Gregory Woodhouse[EMAIL PROTECTED]Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein---SF.Net email is sponsored by:Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very ownSony(tm)PSP.Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php___ Hardhats-members mailing listHardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
You are so right. You might be able to stick a dollar amount on money saved on maintaining and finding paper records, but how can you put a dollar amount on having a machine double check your orders for drug interactions, always having that chart at your fingertips, etc. Priceless for an answer probably won't hack it. On Tuesday 20 September 2005 03:45 pm, Christoph Guenther wrote: Yes, I realize that there is a benefits as well as cost side of this. So then the question becomes whether you can lower the costs sufficiently for the benefits to outweigh the costs. That in turn assumes that benefits and costs can be quantified in some way. Has anyone ever done this? My gut feeling is that it is easier to quantify the costs (or at least get an estimate on the lower bound of those costs) then to quantify the benefits. After all, I can say that depending on the environment, I will probably have to spend at least so and so much money on hardware, software licensing, installation, support, training, etc. Getting a dollar amount for the benefits seems to be much more difficult since in my mind those benefits are much less well-defined. Christoph Greg Woodhouse wrote: How about lowering the barriers to entry? There is a cost as well as a benefit side, too --- Christoph Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the way out of this conundrum? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
There are several academic papers on the subject - searching on 'cost benefit analysis electronic medical records' in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed On Tuesday 20 September 2005 03:45 pm, Christoph Guenther wrote: Yes, I realize that there is a benefits as well as cost side of this. So then the question becomes whether you can lower the costs sufficiently for the benefits to outweigh the costs. That in turn assumes that benefits and costs can be quantified in some way. Has anyone ever done this? -- Ismet B. Kursunoglu, MD, FCCP Medical Director Alaska Clinic, LLC 3750 Country Field Circle, UNIT B Wasilla, Alaska 99654 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (907)357-7240 --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
A good mathematical model (at least for starters) might be to think about expectation values for random variables. Have you ever gone to the store and wondered what line to stand in? I remember recently looking at two lines: one quite long, but full of people with comparatively few items, and one much shorter, but with at least one person having many items. Which is preferable? --- Nancy Anthracite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are so right. You might be able to stick a dollar amount on money saved on maintaining and finding paper records, but how can you put a dollar amount on having a machine double check your orders for drug interactions, always having that chart at your fingertips, etc. Priceless for an answer probably won't hack it. On Tuesday 20 September 2005 03:45 pm, Christoph Guenther wrote: Yes, I realize that there is a benefits as well as cost side of this. So then the question becomes whether you can lower the costs sufficiently for the benefits to outweigh the costs. That in turn assumes that benefits and costs can be quantified in some way. Has anyone ever done this? My gut feeling is that it is easier to quantify the costs (or at least get an estimate on the lower bound of those costs) then to quantify the benefits. After all, I can say that depending on the environment, I will probably have to spend at least so and so much money on hardware, software licensing, installation, support, training, etc. Getting a dollar amount for the benefits seems to be much more difficult since in my mind those benefits are much less well-defined. Christoph Greg Woodhouse wrote: How about lowering the barriers to entry? There is a cost as well as a benefit side, too --- Christoph Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the way out of this conundrum? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
Think about this way: You give me $5 and I give you a pair of dice. You have two opportunities to roll a pair of sixes, upon which I will pay you $30. Is it a good bet? Now, you have two choices: either we can increase the payoff (how much?) or the number of attempts you are allowed (how many?) What does it take to make it a good bet? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A good mathematical model (at least for starters) might be to think about expectation values for random variables. Have you ever gone to the store and wondered what line to stand in? I remember recently looking at two lines: one quite long, but full of people with comparatively few items, and one much shorter, but with at least one person having many items. Which is preferable? --- Nancy Anthracite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are so right. You might be able to stick a dollar amount on money saved on maintaining and finding paper records, but how can you put a dollar amount on having a machine double check your orders for drug interactions, always having that chart at your fingertips, etc. Priceless for an answer probably won't hack it. On Tuesday 20 September 2005 03:45 pm, Christoph Guenther wrote: Yes, I realize that there is a benefits as well as cost side of this. So then the question becomes whether you can lower the costs sufficiently for the benefits to outweigh the costs. That in turn assumes that benefits and costs can be quantified in some way. Has anyone ever done this? My gut feeling is that it is easier to quantify the costs (or at least get an estimate on the lower bound of those costs) then to quantify the benefits. After all, I can say that depending on the environment, I will probably have to spend at least so and so much money on hardware, software licensing, installation, support, training, etc. Getting a dollar amount for the benefits seems to be much more difficult since in my mind those benefits are much less well-defined. Christoph Greg Woodhouse wrote: How about lowering the barriers to entry? There is a cost as well as a benefit side, too --- Christoph Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the way out of this conundrum? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is
Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
OK, I guess some of them are duds. But how about A Cost-Benefit Analysis of Electronic Medical Records in Primary Care http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=pubmeddopt=Abstractlist_uids=12714130query_hl=11 You can click on the Related Articles link and get 798 article references. Full article at http://www.brighamandwomens.org/gms/News/WangEMRCostBenefit.pdf I would imagine it is very, very hard to put a dollar amount on the savings. What about other industries where there is common use of electronic data exchange - i.e. banking, securities etc.. I imagine that removing that infrastructure would be very detrimental. What would be the benefit to the US economy if we immediately stopped using all passenger automobiles? Would we realize $230 billion in savings? http://www.dot.gov/affairs/nhtsa3802.htm I doubt it. What kind of an abstract is that?? -- Ismet B. Kursunoglu, MD, FCCP Medical Director Alaska Clinic, LLC 3750 Country Field Circle, UNIT B Wasilla, Alaska 99654 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (907)357-7240 --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
It depends on what you call a good bet you will never hit 100% pay off. Thanks Marc Aylesworth C3I Associates AFRL/IFSE Joint Battlespace Infosphere Team 525 Brooks Rd Rome, NY 13441-4505 Tel:315.330.2422 Fax:315.330.7009 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Woodhouse Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:31 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect Think about this way: You give me $5 and I give you a pair of dice. You have two opportunities to roll a pair of sixes, upon which I will pay you $30. Is it a good bet? Now, you have two choices: either we can increase the payoff (how much?) or the number of attempts you are allowed (how many?) What does it take to make it a good bet? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A good mathematical model (at least for starters) might be to think about expectation values for random variables. Have you ever gone to the store and wondered what line to stand in? I remember recently looking at two lines: one quite long, but full of people with comparatively few items, and one much shorter, but with at least one person having many items. Which is preferable? --- Nancy Anthracite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are so right. You might be able to stick a dollar amount on money saved on maintaining and finding paper records, but how can you put a dollar amount on having a machine double check your orders for drug interactions, always having that chart at your fingertips, etc. Priceless for an answer probably won't hack it. On Tuesday 20 September 2005 03:45 pm, Christoph Guenther wrote: Yes, I realize that there is a benefits as well as cost side of this. So then the question becomes whether you can lower the costs sufficiently for the benefits to outweigh the costs. That in turn assumes that benefits and costs can be quantified in some way. Has anyone ever done this? My gut feeling is that it is easier to quantify the costs (or at least get an estimate on the lower bound of those costs) then to quantify the benefits. After all, I can say that depending on the environment, I will probably have to spend at least so and so much money on hardware, software licensing, installation, support, training, etc. Getting a dollar amount for the benefits seems to be much more difficult since in my mind those benefits are much less well-defined. Christoph Greg Woodhouse wrote: How about lowering the barriers to entry? There is a cost as well as a benefit side, too --- Christoph Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the way out of this conundrum? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your
RE: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
That's right. And you can never be 100% sure that your investment in an EHR will pay off, either. --- Aylesworth Marc A Ctr AFRL/IFSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It depends on what you call a good bet you will never hit 100% pay off. Thanks Marc Aylesworth C3I Associates AFRL/IFSE Joint Battlespace Infosphere Team 525 Brooks Rd Rome, NY 13441-4505 Tel:315.330.2422 Fax:315.330.7009 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Woodhouse Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:31 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect Think about this way: You give me $5 and I give you a pair of dice. You have two opportunities to roll a pair of sixes, upon which I will pay you $30. Is it a good bet? Now, you have two choices: either we can increase the payoff (how much?) or the number of attempts you are allowed (how many?) What does it take to make it a good bet? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A good mathematical model (at least for starters) might be to think about expectation values for random variables. Have you ever gone to the store and wondered what line to stand in? I remember recently looking at two lines: one quite long, but full of people with comparatively few items, and one much shorter, but with at least one person having many items. Which is preferable? --- Nancy Anthracite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are so right. You might be able to stick a dollar amount on money saved on maintaining and finding paper records, but how can you put a dollar amount on having a machine double check your orders for drug interactions, always having that chart at your fingertips, etc. Priceless for an answer probably won't hack it. On Tuesday 20 September 2005 03:45 pm, Christoph Guenther wrote: Yes, I realize that there is a benefits as well as cost side of this. So then the question becomes whether you can lower the costs sufficiently for the benefits to outweigh the costs. That in turn assumes that benefits and costs can be quantified in some way. Has anyone ever done this? My gut feeling is that it is easier to quantify the costs (or at least get an estimate on the lower bound of those costs) then to quantify the benefits. After all, I can say that depending on the environment, I will probably have to spend at least so and so much money on hardware, software licensing, installation, support, training, etc. Getting a dollar amount for the benefits seems to be much more difficult since in my mind those benefits are much less well-defined. Christoph Greg Woodhouse wrote: How about lowering the barriers to entry? There is a cost as well as a benefit side, too --- Christoph Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the way out of this conundrum? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of
RE: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
If you only have about 1 chance in 20 of success, a payoff of 6 times your initial investment isn't a very good bet. Now, implementing an EMR will require an initial investement (possibly sizeable) but may increase or decrease your cost of doing business. The point, though, is that if situation in which you benefit from having an EMR occur with some probability, and if you can estimate what that benefit might be (for a single patient, single episode of care, single month, etc.) then you can estimate the likelihood that your initial investment will pay off. --- Aylesworth Marc A Ctr AFRL/IFSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It depends on what you call a good bet you will never hit 100% pay off. Thanks Marc Aylesworth C3I Associates AFRL/IFSE Joint Battlespace Infosphere Team 525 Brooks Rd Rome, NY 13441-4505 Tel:315.330.2422 Fax:315.330.7009 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Woodhouse Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:31 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect Think about this way: You give me $5 and I give you a pair of dice. You have two opportunities to roll a pair of sixes, upon which I will pay you $30. Is it a good bet? Now, you have two choices: either we can increase the payoff (how much?) or the number of attempts you are allowed (how many?) What does it take to make it a good bet? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A good mathematical model (at least for starters) might be to think about expectation values for random variables. Have you ever gone to the store and wondered what line to stand in? I remember recently looking at two lines: one quite long, but full of people with comparatively few items, and one much shorter, but with at least one person having many items. Which is preferable? --- Nancy Anthracite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are so right. You might be able to stick a dollar amount on money saved on maintaining and finding paper records, but how can you put a dollar amount on having a machine double check your orders for drug interactions, always having that chart at your fingertips, etc. Priceless for an answer probably won't hack it. On Tuesday 20 September 2005 03:45 pm, Christoph Guenther wrote: Yes, I realize that there is a benefits as well as cost side of this. So then the question becomes whether you can lower the costs sufficiently for the benefits to outweigh the costs. That in turn assumes that benefits and costs can be quantified in some way. Has anyone ever done this? My gut feeling is that it is easier to quantify the costs (or at least get an estimate on the lower bound of those costs) then to quantify the benefits. After all, I can say that depending on the environment, I will probably have to spend at least so and so much money on hardware, software licensing, installation, support, training, etc. Getting a dollar amount for the benefits seems to be much more difficult since in my mind those benefits are much less well-defined. Christoph Greg Woodhouse wrote: How about lowering the barriers to entry? There is a cost as well as a benefit side, too --- Christoph Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the way out of this conundrum? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo
[Hardhats-members] Open health records software comes of age
I don't recall if this has been posted here ... http://www.govhealthit.com/article90746-09-12-05-Print Article in Government Health IT about WorldVistA coordination. attachment: winmail.dat
[Hardhats-members] Re: OpenVistA VivA FOIA Gold 20050825 available
Bhaskar, If someone were to take your database file and set of routines, and were to configure it such that there is a user defined so that a log-in is allowed, then how should that be communicated back to you? One problem with CPRS under wine that should be easily fixed is that it tries to save the auto-save file to a dos path (i.e. c:\backup.bak) Obviously linux will reject that (although perhaps Wine converts dos paths to linux??) I think I have the source for that wine-CPRS, but I don't want to make unwanted forks. Kevin On 9/20/05, K.S. Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2005-09-18 at 18:30 -0400, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: [KSB] ...snip... Note that this DVD includes an icon that starts the CPRS GUI under wine. With an installation of the unconfigured database as distributed, it comes up to ask for the id and access code. I don't know enough to configure a VistA database to accept connections, but it at least gets as far sa the login screen. One hiccup is that the splash screen does not go away - perhaps it will after a successful login; I just don't know. But this is the first time that a single CD/DVD demo of VistA +CPRS even appears within reach, so I feel encouraged. (Also, the CPRS GUI no longer looks ugly - all it needed was to have the msttcorefonts package installed). I hope that someone in the VistA community will know enough to configure a database for a successful CPRS session, as well as perhaps tweak the CPRS GUI and/or wine to get the splash screen to go away. [KSB] Please let me make it clear that CPRS under wine is experimental, and I was told yesterday that it gets tantalizingly close, but doesn't quite work. Your mileage may vary. The mantra of open source is to release early, release often, so please play with it, report your experiences, contribute your improvements, etc. -- Bhaskar --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: VOE DELIVERED TO PHYSICIAN OFFICES
Tell you what, you can be my installer, and I'll pay you accordingly. (Wink, nod) Kevin :-) On 9/20/05, John Leo Zimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NEWSPEAK I got the flames out of my system a couple weeks ago. I do not understand the problem with obtaining IHS modules for VOE. Why would the be restricted now if they are going to become part of a public domain project tomorrow? I very much doubt any of us have enough clout to explain open development to the federal government. So grandpaZ is going to become a vendor. ;-) --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
I've been working on an analysis of EMRs (and replacement of a PM) for a 30-provider, 8-office primary care practice in Chester County PA. I've reviewed proposals and demos for all of the top commercial vendors selling to the ambulatory (i.e., non-hospital) market. I've also read every rating and analysis done by other people. I've spoken with at least two practices which have implemented each commercial product. Some of the key points: 1. No matter which system, no matter what the size of practice, location, cost, etc., the practice would never return to paper charts. 2. There is generally little net increase in provider productivity that translates into seeing more patients within the same time frame. There is also no net decrease however, although there usually is a modest loss of productivity when the providers and others first use the system. Users are usually up to speed within days or weeks. 3. When providers do see increased productivity, it is in the form of leaving work on time. An electronic system also allows providers to log in to the system from home or elsewhere, so lifestyle is enhanced (assuming people actually want to spend more time with their families). 4. Transcription costs are usually eliminated. This obviously can be a material amount, if providers do a lot of dictation. 5. There are savings from the elimination of clerical medical records personnel and attendant occupancy and office materials expense. In most practices this is a noticeable amount, but the savings obviously vary by size of practice. 6. Universally providers code higher than with manual systems, so revenues increase with the same mix and volume of patients. The amount can be modest or quite large (10%-20% increase in revenue). 7. All practices show at least some positive financial return on investment. Some recoup their investment in as little as 12-18 months, so the ROI over a several-year time horizon can be enormous. 8. All providers confirm that quality of care is better. This is due to automated checking of drug interaction, to more time being available to treat and listen to patients (rather than doing paperwork), to having a complete, instantaneous, comprehensive view on the patient's condition at the time of encounter, to better disease management and so on and so on. 9. Device usage varies. Most practices give providers wireless tablets to carry around. Some give the same to clinical assistants. Some stick with wired devices. A few throw in the use of wireless PDAs, but usually limit usage to nurses and assistants who need to enter only the most basic data and who prefer to carry around smaller devices. 10. VistA and VistA-Office are viable alternatives to commercial systems. My experience with this specific practice is that many providers and administrators who haven't rotated through a VA hospital and therefore have not used VistA are skeptical of the possible benefits of a government-developed system. Also it is uncertain to me at the moment how easily either product can be adapted to the average practice. Virtually all practices have PMs (practice management systems). An interface has to be developed with those systems. Interfaces have to be developed for outside labs and for getting prescriptions to commercial pharmacies electronically. The flip side is that I am interested in VistA because I believe it can be enhanced for ambulatory settings the same way it has been adapted by Medsphere for hospital settings. I believe that the functionality of an enhanced system is more than adequate for any ambulatory setting of any size. In addition I believe that any enhancements can be accomplished and the system can be implemented such that the net cost to the practitioner is a fraction of the cost of a commercial system. I am interested in collaborating with anyone out there who wants to pool experiences, etc. If anyone would like more information on my work or me, please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wendell Murray -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 9/16/2005 --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: Escaping from a program
I have written a debugger for GT.M also, that lets one step through code using GT.M stepping functions. Its still got some rough edges, but I use it all the time. Kevin On 9/20/05, Larry Andreassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is in a Cache environment, check out their debugger... http://platinum.intersystems.com/csp/docbook/DocBook.UI.Page.cls?KEY=GCOS_debug#GCOS_debug_debugger Their debugger allows setting break and watch points, stepping thru code, etc. LJA On 9/20/05, Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Usually, they are enabled by default and have to be explicitly disabled. If you want to break out of a program, just enter GT.M or Cache directly, and sign in with D ^XUP. (Don't sign in the usual way using ^ZU). But, again, I emphasize that this is not something you want to do in production, because if users are allowed to break out of a program, they basically have free run of the system. --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks greg but how do i enable keyboard interrupts? --- Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer is that it depends. In a production environment, you are going to want to disable this (of course), but during development, you might considere enabling keyboard interrupts, and using a simple control-C (interrupt) or control-Z (suspend). But keep in mind tha this is for development only! --- Samuel Fontanez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi i want to know if there is a way to escape a program while it is runnig, so i will be able to see the exact code line in that moment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list
Re: [Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program
Title: Re: [Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program Which MUMPS are you running? If it's GT.M, you can send it an interrupt and have the process dump its state to a file. -- Bhaskar -- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tue Sep 20 10:49:22 2005 Subject: [Hardhats-members] Escaping from a program Hi i want to know if there is a way to escape a program while it is runnig, so i will be able to see the exact code line in that moment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] vista settings
Title: Re: [Hardhats-members] vista settings Try a mupip rundown and then a mupip integ to check for database structural integrity. If that's OK try running VistA again. Most likely, GT.M is generating an error message about being unable to access the database, but the VistA error handler is probably trapping and suppressing the error. To set up a database that can be recovered in an automated (scripted) fashion after a crash, you will need to run journalingm -- Bhaskar -- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tue Sep 20 13:00:17 2005 Subject: [Hardhats-members] vista settings Hi my machine suddenly turn off due to electricity problems while i was running vista. Now i try to run vista again and it wont work. This is what happened: _ GTMD ^XUP Setting up programmer environment GTM _ I want to know if there is a way to fix vista without reinstalling it. Thanks, Samuel __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Configuring a box:volume set for the domain, taskman, and RPC Broker
Thank you Nancy. gmartinson --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Computer World Editorial on Network Effect
Nancy Anthracite wrote: You are so right. You might be able to stick a dollar amount on money saved on maintaining and finding paper records, but how can you put a dollar amount on having a machine double check your orders for drug interactions, always having that chart at your fingertips, etc. Priceless for an answer probably won't hack it. Well.. No doubt evaluating it is tricky, but getting a ball park figure is not impossible and is what will persuade. In the case you mention: dollar amount saved for automating health records = (paper costs saved) + (Time saved in seconds * salary/ per second of worker) + (mistreatment costs saved per patient) where: (mistreatment costs saved per patient) = (mistreatment costs per patient) * (pre-automation - post-automation mistreatment rate per patient ) where (mistreatment costs saved per patient) = money lost by patient + money lost by hospital in fixing problem + any compensation for mental trauma etc... (ie needs further breaking down, but you get the general principle. If in doubt, get a medical physicist down in radiology to help you with thinking this thing through - physicists tend have a way of looking at these kind of problems that engineers and programmers don't). Christoph was trying to figure out how to quantify the benefits. Well, show a boss the figures that come out with this kind of reasoning. He will leap upon them, dress them up in a powerpoint presentation, and call it a Cost-Benefit-Analysis and get on with persuading management to do a switch to EHR. IIRC, the VA had quantified the reduction in wrong drugs given pre and post VISTA. So I am sure the information is out there. regards PJ --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] vista settings
You can also D ^XTER and then ask to see ALL errors. The Kernel (VistA) error handler does screen out certain errors by default, but that's for display purposes only. You can display all errors if you wish. ===Gregory Woodhouse[EMAIL PROTECTED]"One must act on what has not yet happened."--Lao Tzu On Sep 20, 2005, at 5:14 PM, Bhaskar, KS wrote:Try a mupip rundown and then a mupip integ to check for database structural integrity. If that's OK try running VistA again.Most likely, GT.M is generating an error message about being unable to access the database, but the VistA error handler is probably trapping and suppressing the error.To set up a database that can be recovered in an automated (scripted) fashion after a crash, you will need to run journalingm-- Bhaskar
