Re: mainframe selling points
No sysplex? How does a vendor test rolling installation/maintenance across a sysplex for 24x7 uptime? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Crayford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points On 30/01/2013 1:07 PM, Don Williams wrote: Hi Scott, While I've heard of zPDT, I don't really know/understand what is does or offers a vendor. Sounds like zPDT is an affordable and effective platform. Too bad some vendor did not use it to develop an z/OS EMR package for hospitals that already have a z/OS infrastructure. It offers vendors who have no need for a sysplex a cheap development/testing/demo environment that they can run on a laptop, desktop or rack server. It would be interesting to see how it measures up running a production workload on the latest x86 iron like http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/x/hardware/enterprise/x3850x5/specs.html compared to a business class mainframe like a z114. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don, Dude a lot of vendors, like ourselves run Z/Pdt Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi John, System z is not cheap (does it start around $1M?). I expect the traditional mainframe operating systems, like z/OS, z/VM, etc., to have a significant price tag. I'm not sure what the pricing is for the zLinux variety of operating system. Free does not get you business class support. Add to that the environment, DASD, etc., it's hard for the startup vendor to put all that in his garage :-) It seems like they are trying to prevent the creation of smaller more affordable mainframes. What happened to P/390, FLEX-ES? Is there any way to legally run z/OS on Hercules? If a small vendor needs coupling facilities, I think he is out of luck. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points I am not sure, but the PC in impinging on the z in many ways. IMO, one reason is that some very creative people can afford their own PC and tools (especially if they use Linux). The investment is very low compared to a z. And the vendor can then market the product to many more people. Most every office in the world has PC class servers. Take the EMR package. If it is priced correctly and easy to use, then the market into local doctor's offices is immense compared to, say, only into a major hospital (which could possibly afford a z). I know my personal doctor has some sort of PC based software. I see them (and my dentist) using it. And the doctor no longer writes physical prescriptions. He just enters it into his laptop; it then ends up going to my pharmacy; and they send a text to my phone when it is ready to pick up. I really don't see much of any reason for application level code on the z any more. Things like DB2, maybe. But CICS? Sorry, it is simply easier to create a web based transaction using WAS or JBOSS or Tomcat on a server. Doing so is more cost efficient for our size (and shrinking) business. The only reason we continue with CICS/COBOL is that we do incremental changes. We don't have the money to convert from CICS or batch COBOL to something else (likely Microsoft .NET based shudder/). On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: In my company's case, it's not a matter of asking our vendor to work with IBM. The vendor already works with IBM, but has chosen to phase out their mainframe product and create a new one that runs on PC-based servers. For various reasons, the hospital decided to open the field and look for a new Electronic Medical Record (EMR) package across all platforms. My understanding is that there is no viable EMR package available on the z/OS platform. This made me wonder -- is there no EMR vendor who chose to develop their product on the z/OS platform? I expect that successful vendors carefully chose their platform(s). If they are not chosing z/OS, why not? -- Maranatha! John McKown -- -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
I'm not an EMR expert either, but to the hospital the EMR application is actually far more than simply medical record keeping. There are a wide range of departments or clinics (e.g., pediatrics, pharmacy, oncology, emergency room, and on and on). The doctors and nurses in each department have different and conflicting requirements. Then there are legal requirements like having the appropriate governmental certifications to ensure the hospital is eligible to receive Medicare payments, etc. Therefore, the hospital was looking and selected an EMR application on steroids. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points I'm not an EMR expert, but here's an EMR application (for Linux on z): http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=46233 http://www.oemr.org FIS Global's GT.M is also now available on both z/OS and Linux on z, and that's one of the two possible commercial runtime environments for applications such as VistA and the rather large portfolio of M/MUMPS applications. More information here: http://tinco.pair.com/bhaskar/gtm/doc/articles/GTM_on_z_OS.html http://www.fisglobal.com/products-technologyplatforms-gtm This solution also looks relevant: http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=48085 SAP seems to be getting into the EMR business, although I'm not familiar with their EMR solutions. SAP backends support z/OS and Linux on z quite well, though. Here are some more that look like they're in the EMR category (for Linux on z): http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=46473 http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=14250 http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=47562 http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=44636 http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=43293 http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=44057 http://www- 304.ibm.com/partnerworld/gsd/solutiondetails.do?solution=16234 This search was not exhaustive, nor did I do any particular searching for EMR-related applications that support DB2 for z/OS and DB2 for Linux on z. --- - Timothy Sipples Consulting Enterprise IT Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost?
The company for which I currently work decided to release all the CA Endevor knowledgeable people. Our product control people know how to do moves. The programmers know how to create packages for moving. But nobody knows how to add or update any of the infrastructure things such as processors My manager is very CA literate and so he's been reading over the books. His manager apparently feels that you have the CA supplied books, that should be sufficient to learn everything you need to know! So, given the above, does anybody know of any free or inexpensive (since it will come out of my pocket) training for CA Endevor? One of the guys in our group may get some free training from his wife, because she does Endevor work for another company (after she was released from this one). -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
David, That would e interesting . I worked on a PC500 solution, where it was OS/2 based running MVS at that time. It was at the end of a T1, with a 3800 channel attached to it. It was a big print server and worked very well. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:27 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/01/2013 1:07 PM, Don Williams wrote: Hi Scott, While I've heard of zPDT, I don't really know/understand what is does or offers a vendor. Sounds like zPDT is an affordable and effective platform. Too bad some vendor did not use it to develop an z/OS EMR package for hospitals that already have a z/OS infrastructure. It offers vendors who have no need for a sysplex a cheap development/testing/demo environment that they can run on a laptop, desktop or rack server. It would be interesting to see how it measures up running a production workload on the latest x86 iron like http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/x/hardware/enterprise/x3850x5/specs.html compared to a business class mainframe like a z114. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don, Dude a lot of vendors, like ourselves run Z/Pdt Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi John, System z is not cheap (does it start around $1M?). I expect the traditional mainframe operating systems, like z/OS, z/VM, etc., to have a significant price tag. I'm not sure what the pricing is for the zLinux variety of operating system. Free does not get you business class support. Add to that the environment, DASD, etc., it's hard for the startup vendor to put all that in his garage :-) It seems like they are trying to prevent the creation of smaller more affordable mainframes. What happened to P/390, FLEX-ES? Is there any way to legally run z/OS on Hercules? If a small vendor needs coupling facilities, I think he is out of luck. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points I am not sure, but the PC in impinging on the z in many ways. IMO, one reason is that some very creative people can afford their own PC and tools (especially if they use Linux). The investment is very low compared to a z. And the vendor can then market the product to many more people. Most every office in the world has PC class servers. Take the EMR package. If it is priced correctly and easy to use, then the market into local doctor's offices is immense compared to, say, only into a major hospital (which could possibly afford a z). I know my personal doctor has some sort of PC based software. I see them (and my dentist) using it. And the doctor no longer writes physical prescriptions. He just enters it into his laptop; it then ends up going to my pharmacy; and they send a text to my phone when it is ready to pick up. I really don't see much of any reason for application level code on the z any more. Things like DB2, maybe. But CICS? Sorry, it is simply easier to create a web based transaction using WAS or JBOSS or Tomcat on a server. Doing so is more cost efficient for our size (and shrinking) business. The only reason we continue with CICS/COBOL is that we do incremental changes. We don't have the money to convert from CICS or batch COBOL to something else (likely Microsoft .NET based shudder/). On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: In my company's case, it's not a matter of asking our vendor to work with IBM. The vendor already works with IBM, but has chosen to phase out their mainframe product and create a new one that runs on PC-based servers. For various reasons, the hospital decided to open the field and look for a new Electronic Medical Record (EMR) package across all platforms. My understanding is that there is no viable EMR package available on the z/OS platform. This made me wonder -- is there no EMR vendor who chose to develop their product on the z/OS platform? I expect that successful vendors carefully chose their platform(s). If they are not chosing z/OS, why not? -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
zPDT may work well for develpoment, but it's the classic catch-22 situation since IBM doesn't provide a viable entry level platform for actually *running* such an application. I'm sure zPDT comes mired in rules about what kind of work can and cannot be run on it. While wearing my IBM i hat this week, I'm looking at a quote for an IBM Power 7, 720 6 core machine, 64GB of memory, 5TB of internal disk behind two pair of 1.8GB cache adaptors. All this hardware comes in well under $100K.That would be a very good sized z/OS installation if it could run on there, and of course the Power 7 hardware can be had in much smaller footprints as well. Dana On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:27:15 +0800, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/01/2013 1:07 PM, Don Williams wrote: Hi Scott, While I've heard of zPDT, I don't really know/understand what is does or offers a vendor. Sounds like zPDT is an affordable and effective platform. Too bad some vendor did not use it to develop an z/OS EMR package for hospitals that already have a z/OS infrastructure. It offers vendors who have no need for a sysplex a cheap development/testing/demo environment that they can run on a laptop, desktop or rack server. It would be interesting to see how it measures up running a production workload on the latest x86 iron like http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/x/hardware/enterprise/x3850x5/specs.html compared to a business class mainframe like a z114. Don -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost?
John, On support.ca.com is the MYCA menu entry. There you can join the CA Endevor form - much like IBM Main, where you can post questions. Maybe someone there will know about training. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost? The company for which I currently work decided to release all the CA Endevor knowledgeable people. Our product control people know how to do moves. The programmers know how to create packages for moving. But nobody knows how to add or update any of the infrastructure things such as processors My manager is very CA literate and so he's been reading over the books. His manager apparently feels that you have the CA supplied books, that should be sufficient to learn everything you need to know! So, given the above, does anybody know of any free or inexpensive (since it will come out of my pocket) training for CA Endevor? One of the guys in our group may get some free training from his wife, because she does Endevor work for another company (after she was released from this one). -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost?
Thanks. I'll do that after staff infection. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Lizette Koehler stars...@mindspring.com wrote: John, On support.ca.com is the MYCA menu entry. There you can join the CA Endevor form - much like IBM Main, where you can post questions. Maybe someone there will know about training. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost? The company for which I currently work decided to release all the CA Endevor knowledgeable people. Our product control people know how to do moves. The programmers know how to create packages for moving. But nobody knows how to add or update any of the infrastructure things such as processors My manager is very CA literate and so he's been reading over the books. His manager apparently feels that you have the CA supplied books, that should be sufficient to learn everything you need to know! So, given the above, does anybody know of any free or inexpensive (since it will come out of my pocket) training for CA Endevor? One of the guys in our group may get some free training from his wife, because she does Endevor work for another company (after she was released from this one). -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost?
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:00:47 -0600, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. I'll do that after staff infection. Is that a new version of staph infection for health care employees? :-) -- Dale R. Smith -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
On 1/29/2013 10:27 PM, David Crayford wrote: It offers vendors who have no need for a sysplex a cheap development/testing/demo environment that they can run on a laptop, desktop or rack server. As of December 2010, zPDT supports virtual coupling facilities for z/OS guests running under z/VM. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
It does require the correct version of z/VM (more current is better), and current support code for the 1090, Downloadable from the zPDT site. There is a ADCD version that has the volumes are setup for z/VM and z/OS Sysplex. Works pretty well if you have enough horsepower, RAM, and processors on your PC. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points On 1/29/2013 10:27 PM, David Crayford wrote: It offers vendors who have no need for a sysplex a cheap development/testing/demo environment that they can run on a laptop, desktop or rack server. As of December 2010, zPDT supports virtual coupling facilities for z/OS guests running under z/VM. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
stopping SMS
To list; I have been attempting to stop SMS (if that is possible) as we are running into allocation issues when logging on to TSO. I have tried various combinations of parameters on the VARY SMS command but continue to get SYNTAX errors. Has anyone had to stop SMS and if so, could you share the syntax of the command. Thanks in advance, Bill Janulin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Stand-alone Dump Revisited
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:19:49 -0500, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote:
A couple instances of n MESSAGE BUFFERS MISSING (total of 6), but
otherwise lists just about all the active ASIDs being processed.
This, along with the other symptoms, suggests that IPCS
is not seeing the data from all of the volumes.
IPCS said:
28,578 blocks, 118,884,480 bytes, in DSNAME('SYS1.SADMP.DDS1 ')
That's around 188 megabytes.
SADMP said:
AMD095I REAL DUMP 63% COMPLETED. TOTAL MEGABYTES DUMPED: 2,912
You are running IPCS directly against the original multivolume
SADMP output data set. The documentation (and I) strongly recommend
that you should copy that data set with IPCS COPYDUMP, and then
do further IPCS processing against the copy.
As we determined in my PMR, we did use IPCS COPYDUMP to copy the dump into a
single dataset, but we did not have the fix for OA36232 installed; so COPYDUMP
only copied the first volume, even though it read all 5 volumes. Thus,
IPCS-ing the copy gave the appearance of IPCS-ing the first volume of the
actual dump.
After changing our COPYDUMP JCL to specify all five VOLSERs, we did get a full
copy of the SADUMP.
Sometimes, running some utility other than SADMP or IPCS
against the multi-volume data set may cause the last volume
indicator to get turned on in the F1/F8 DSCB for some volume other
than the last volume. This will cause subsequent attempts to read
the data set sequentially to not see all of the data. COPYDUMP
will avoid this issue, and improve IPCS performance by merging
the data back into logical dumping order.
With the PTF for APAR OA37350 installed, SADMP should fix
an incorrect last volume indicator each time it takes
a dump.
We have duly added UA63883 to our apply list for maintenance.
-jc-
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Re: stopping SMS
Well, the thought of doing so is terrifying to me. But I guess you could: FORCE SMS,ARM ... FORCE SMS I'm just no sure what this will do. IMO, it would be better to create a new SCDS dataset as a minimal SMS environment (no ACS routines), and make it the active SCDS with: SETSMS SCDS(new.minimal.scds) But before doing so, I would likely also create a new ACDS dataset SETSMS SAVEACDS(new.acds.dsn) That way, if you need to quickly revert, you can simply: SETSMS ACDS(new.acds.dsn) SETSMS SCDS(original.scds.dsn) But, really, I would think you'd want to try to debug what is going wrong with your current SMS environment and fix it. Ah, if possible. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:37 AM, william janulin wjanu...@yahoo.com wrote: To list; I have been attempting to stop SMS (if that is possible) as we are running into allocation issues when logging on to TSO. I have tried various combinations of parameters on the VARY SMS command but continue to get SYNTAX errors. Has anyone had to stop SMS and if so, could you share the syntax of the command. Thanks in advance, Bill Janulin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: stopping SMS
I don't believe that you can stop the SMS address space. What are the allocation issues? That might be a better avenue to pursue. Doug Doug Fuerst Principal Consultant BK Associates 718.921.2620 917.572.7364 d...@bkassociates.net -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of william janulin Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: stopping SMS To list; I have been attempting to stop SMS (if that is possible) as we are running into allocation issues when logging on to TSO. I have tried various combinations of parameters on the VARY SMS command but continue to get SYNTAX errors. Has anyone had to stop SMS and if so, could you share the syntax of the command. Thanks in advance, Bill Janulin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: stopping SMS
You might want to mount a non-sms volume as 'public' and then try TSO logon again. Thank You, Dave O'Brien NIH Contractor From: John McKown [john.archie.mck...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: stopping SMS Well, the thought of doing so is terrifying to me. But I guess you could: FORCE SMS,ARM ... FORCE SMS I'm just no sure what this will do. IMO, it would be better to create a new SCDS dataset as a minimal SMS environment (no ACS routines), and make it the active SCDS with: SETSMS SCDS(new.minimal.scds) But before doing so, I would likely also create a new ACDS dataset SETSMS SAVEACDS(new.acds.dsn) That way, if you need to quickly revert, you can simply: SETSMS ACDS(new.acds.dsn) SETSMS SCDS(original.scds.dsn) But, really, I would think you'd want to try to debug what is going wrong with your current SMS environment and fix it. Ah, if possible. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:37 AM, william janulin wjanu...@yahoo.com wrote: To list; I have been attempting to stop SMS (if that is possible) as we are running into allocation issues when logging on to TSO. I have tried various combinations of parameters on the VARY SMS command but continue to get SYNTAX errors. Has anyone had to stop SMS and if so, could you share the syntax of the command. Thanks in advance, Bill Janulin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Dana, Not sure what your referring to here. We can run DB2 and CICS .. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:03 AM, Dana Mitchell mitchd...@gmail.com wrote: zPDT may work well for develpoment, but it's the classic catch-22 situation since IBM doesn't provide a viable entry level platform for actually *running* such an application. I'm sure zPDT comes mired in rules about what kind of work can and cannot be run on it. While wearing my IBM i hat this week, I'm looking at a quote for an IBM Power 7, 720 6 core machine, 64GB of memory, 5TB of internal disk behind two pair of 1.8GB cache adaptors. All this hardware comes in well under $100K.That would be a very good sized z/OS installation if it could run on there, and of course the Power 7 hardware can be had in much smaller footprints as well. Dana On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:27:15 +0800, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/01/2013 1:07 PM, Don Williams wrote: Hi Scott, While I've heard of zPDT, I don't really know/understand what is does or offers a vendor. Sounds like zPDT is an affordable and effective platform. Too bad some vendor did not use it to develop an z/OS EMR package for hospitals that already have a z/OS infrastructure. It offers vendors who have no need for a sysplex a cheap development/testing/demo environment that they can run on a laptop, desktop or rack server. It would be interesting to see how it measures up running a production workload on the latest x86 iron like http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/x/hardware/enterprise/x3850x5/specs.html compared to a business class mainframe like a z114. Don -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Dana, Not sure what your referring to here. We can run DB2 and CICS .. Scott ford www.identityforge.com -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
On 01/30/2013 12:34 PM, Edward Jaffe wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ From the RDT reference cited: 'The Program may not be used to run production workloads of any kind, nor more robust development workloads including without limitation production module builds, pre-production testing, stress testing, or performance testing. So neither zPDT nor RDT may be used for any production workload, or even a workload that attempts to emulate a production workload. Sounds too restrictive to me - how could you legally debug and fix application problems that only show up under stress if you are a developer and this is your only z/OS machine? -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
You, like the name for the Sun, are SOL. We actually had something like this happen to us. A vendor supplied a CICS system level product to us. It worked fine in Test and Model Office. When I installed it in Production, it consistently brought the region down. This was due to the fact that our production CICS was significantly more active and DSA was always nearly 100% allocated. They couldn't reproduce. I reproduced the problem and even wrote a patch to fix it (they gave us source). It was a random 4 byte memory overlay due to a race condition. My work with their developer resolved the problem and got us a year's free maintenance. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Joel C. Ewing jcew...@acm.org wrote: snip From the RDT reference cited: 'The Program may not be used to run production workloads of any kind, nor more robust development workloads including without limitation production module builds, pre-production testing, stress testing, or performance testing. So neither zPDT nor RDT may be used for any production workload, or even a workload that attempts to emulate a production workload. Sounds too restrictive to me - how could you legally debug and fix application problems that only show up under stress if you are a developer and this is your only z/OS machine? -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TPI and CPENABLE
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:39:02 -0600, Michael Hall mhha...@attglobal.net wrote: Hello, I have a question regarding TPI (Test Pending Interrupt). I understand that CPENABLE compares the TPI value to thresholds in CPENABLE. I can’t find which value is used in this comparison. I am assuming a value of (10,30) for CPENABLE. Does it look at the individual value for each CP (indicated by “*” in the example below) or the total percentage for all TPI interrupts (indicated by “+”) ? I include an example below. z/OS V1R11 SYSTEM ID P101 DATE 11/20/2012INTERVAL 14.59.996 RPT VERSION V1R11 RMF TIME 05.30.00 CYCLE 1.000 SECONDS -CPU2098 CPC CAPACITY 173SEQUENCE CODE 00062E16 MODEL T05CHANGE REASON=N/A HIPERDISPATCH=NO H/W MODEL E10 0---CPU--- TIME % LOG PROC --I/O INTERRUPTS-- NUM TYPEONLINELPAR BUSYMVS BUSY PARKED SHARE % RATE % VIA TPI 0CP 100.0019.0118.99 -- 80.0 479.7 22.04 (*) 1CP 100.0019.3719.35 -- 80.0 470.5 24.72 2CP 100.0018.7718.74 -- 80.0 470.3 21.49 3CP 100.0018.7818.76 -- 80.0 482.7 22.27 4CP 100.0018.3618.35 -- 80.0 749.0 6.78 TOTAL/AVERAGE 18.8618.84 400.0 2652 18.15 (+) Should be the single total value. But this looks like data from a system with CPENABLE(0,0) to me. Do you have access to the system that this report is from? If so, check IEAOPTxx in parmlib or use the WLMQUE tool (which includes WLMOPT) to look at the actual setting in use: http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/features/wlm/tools/wlmque.html Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TPI and CPENABLE
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:48:26 -0600, Mark Zelden m...@mzelden.com wrote: But this looks like data from a system with CPENABLE(0,0) to me. I retract that statement. :-) -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TPI and CPENABLE
As well as WLMTOOL there's a hidden gem in RMF II to display these values. I forget exactly where and can't look it up right now. - Original Message - From: Mark Zelden [m...@mzelden.com] Sent: 01/30/2013 01:50 PM CST To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: TPI and CPENABLE On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:48:26 -0600, Mark Zelden m...@mzelden.com wrote: But this looks like data from a system with CPENABLE(0,0) to me. I retract that statement. :-) -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this communication may be confidential, and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sender immediately and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender. Unencrypted, unauthenticated Internet e-mail is inherently insecure. Internet messages may be corrupted or incomplete, or may incorrectly identify the sender. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Tony, Whoever said IBM was price competitive, they are re only game in town , as far as big iron goes Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
For now, IBM has legacy customers over a barrel and can demand a high price for the mainframe hardware and operating systems. But for developers of new apps, they can choose a different platform, esp. if they believe that their customers will purchase whatever platform it takes to run them. I think eventually (i.e., over decades) legacy applications will be replaced with newer slicker apps that don't require IBM's big iron. Hmm, in the decades to come, will IBM be able to continue to command a high price for its big iron? Will employees who work with big iron continue to be well paid? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Tony, Whoever said IBM was price competitive, they are re only game in town , as far as big iron goes Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Don, What's really disconcerting is that the z/OS knowledge base is disappearing. JVM isn't the end all in languages. I write a lot of an gauges, including C. Yes, I am a big Linux fan Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: For now, IBM has legacy customers over a barrel and can demand a high price for the mainframe hardware and operating systems. But for developers of new apps, they can choose a different platform, esp. if they believe that their customers will purchase whatever platform it takes to run them. I think eventually (i.e., over decades) legacy applications will be replaced with newer slicker apps that don't require IBM's big iron. Hmm, in the decades to come, will IBM be able to continue to command a high price for its big iron? Will employees who work with big iron continue to be well paid? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Tony, Whoever said IBM was price competitive, they are re only game in town , as far as big iron goes Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Check out A Day in the Life of a Kiva Robot - YouTube
_A Day in the Life of a Kiva Robot - YouTube_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KRjuuEVEZs) This is interesting by itself. Integrating with other systems fascinating... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Big Iron...bad label... This is why Zseries...z/OS--z/VM--Linux...as for expensive? ...TCO...vs many many many of other platform(s) Lic fees so on..maint. as like anything else .. depending on your needs depends on the size of the Hardware you may need...as for the size.. you can always grow when you have to without reinstalling the world..including staffing.. as for M/Fers being well paid..sort ofbut there are not as many of us required at that site for support. other factors as well...security..DR.. as for newer slicker apps again...this all can be performed on the M/F as well.. and customers are not over a barrel...the alternatives you lead to are there on the Zseries..negative's mention for the mainframe?---Zseries? -- sorry to say is bogus. Too many Companies today see the advantages and are taking them. as for high price you mention..depending on the vendor yes..but there are alternatives even IBM.. Linux being the high points these days has made the Zseries even more of a $$ savings opportunity . others can add to this list..done pitching... From: Don Williams donb...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 01/30/2013 03:09 PM Subject:Re: mainframe selling points Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU For now, IBM has legacy customers over a barrel and can demand a high price for the mainframe hardware and operating systems. But for developers of new apps, they can choose a different platform, esp. if they believe that their customers will purchase whatever platform it takes to run them. I think eventually (i.e., over decades) legacy applications will be replaced with newer slicker apps that don't require IBM's big iron. Hmm, in the decades to come, will IBM be able to continue to command a high price for its big iron? Will employees who work with big iron continue to be well paid? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Tony, Whoever said IBM was price competitive, they are re only game in town , as far as big iron goes Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Check out Apple Q1 2013 hardware sales: By the numbers | ZDNet
_Apple Q1 2013 hardware sales: By the numbers | ZDNet_ (http://www.zdnet.com/apple-q1-2013-hardware-sales-by-the-numbers-710258/) So grasshopper, how's you mobile app on Z? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
On 1/30/2013 1:32 PM, Dana Mitchell wrote: Thanks Tony! thats exactly my point. Since IBM sells z, Power and intel boxen, they don't have to be competetive with themselves, that could be seen as canabilazation. IBM i is in a similar position in IBM as z/OS customers. Most that could easily convert off have done so. The ones left must pay the premium price to continue running. The cross-industry study conducted by Rubin Worldwide found that businesses with mainframes are more efficient and less expensive to operate. http://rubinworldwide.com/files/Mainframe_Economics.pdf Specifically: o 44% lower cost per credit card transaction o 31% lower IT spend per consumer loan o 26% lower cost per new vehicle o 25% lower cost per mega watt hour produced o 25% lower cost per retail store o 24% lower cost per hospital bed o 23% lower cost per barrel of oil o 20% lower cost per airline passenger Exhaustive TCO studies, conducted in actual customer environments, continue to show that mainframes are less expensive Enterprise technology to own, operate and upgrade that alternative platforms. https://share.confex.com/share/117/webprogram/Handout/Session9795/SHARE%20Orlando%2009795.pdf -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
I agree. Too few z/OS courses in the universities over the past 20+ years. Like languages, each platform has it advantages and disadvantages. People should use the most appropriate language, platform, etc. for each situation in order to provide the best solution. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don, What's really disconcerting is that the z/OS knowledge base is disappearing. JVM isn't the end all in languages. I write a lot of an gauges, including C. Yes, I am a big Linux fan Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: For now, IBM has legacy customers over a barrel and can demand a high price for the mainframe hardware and operating systems. But for developers of new apps, they can choose a different platform, esp. if they believe that their customers will purchase whatever platform it takes to run them. I think eventually (i.e., over decades) legacy applications will be replaced with newer slicker apps that don't require IBM's big iron. Hmm, in the decades to come, will IBM be able to continue to command a high price for its big iron? Will employees who work with big iron continue to be well paid? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Tony, Whoever said IBM was price competitive, they are re only game in town , as far as big iron goes Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. --- -- - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Check out Apple Q1 2013 hardware sales: By the numbers | ZDNet
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:51:49 -0500, Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com wrote: _Apple Q1 2013 hardware sales: By the numbers | ZDNet_ (http://www.zdnet.com/apple-q1-2013-hardware-sales-by-the-numbers-710258/) So grasshopper, how's you mobile app on Z? This grasshopper is tempted to wonder why that article is at all relevant here. I mean, we're definitely comparing Apples and something else :) Might as well ask how many different users your iPad or iPhone will support at the same time, and how many apps it can run simultaneously, and how many petabytes of local storage it can have, and how long it runs without needing a reboot, and -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: stopping SMS
And make the change permanent with a SYS*.PARMLIB(VATLST*) change. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:57 AM, O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] obrie...@mail.nih.gov wrote: You might want to mount a non-sms volume as 'public' and then try TSO logon again. Thank You, Dave O'Brien -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Check out Apple Q1 2013 hardware sales: By the numbers | ZDNet
On 30 January 2013 18:04, Walt Farrell walt.farr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:51:49 -0500, Ed Finnell efinnel...@aol.com wrote: _Apple Q1 2013 hardware sales: By the numbers | ZDNet_ (http://www.zdnet.com/apple-q1-2013-hardware-sales-by-the-numbers-710258/) So grasshopper, how's you mobile app on Z? This grasshopper is tempted to wonder why that article is at all relevant here. I mean, we're definitely comparing Apples and something else :) Apples and Blackberries, clearly. :-) http://www.zdnet.com/blackberry-10-launch-event-scorecard-710578/ To keep a wee bit on topic, though, I've wondered why IBM hasn't tried to make the z chips more generally available. I mean, Intel doesn't just make i86/i64 chips for PCs. Why not use the z chips in other devices? (Heh - I think I know the answer to that one...) Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
All, The point is expensive, big companies with an IT staff, MVS or Z/OS unusually means big head count. Coming out of number 5 company who does tobacco, the head count and budget were seriously big and weren't even MVS, we were VM. Nowdays, I don't know what salaries are like. Also you must live in the wrong part of the country I worked in NYC and NJ and managed to raise two kids who are now in college , and live without a wife working. Unfortunately, the last 8 because she passed in 2004. Btw , I am still working not as a Sysprog but a developer , but I also maintain the systems. I am very pro mainframe, the problem is if you need a mainframe system and your a small business and not a development house, what can you do ? PCs, Unix, been there too. There's no utopia , just what works best for the company and it finances. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Ron Wells ron.we...@slfs.com wrote: Big Iron...bad label... This is why Zseries...z/OS--z/VM--Linux...as for expensive? ...TCO...vs many many many of other platform(s) Lic fees so on..maint. as like anything else .. depending on your needs depends on the size of the Hardware you may need...as for the size.. you can always grow when you have to without reinstalling the world..including staffing.. as for M/Fers being well paid..sort ofbut there are not as many of us required at that site for support. other factors as well...security..DR.. as for newer slicker apps again...this all can be performed on the M/F as well.. and customers are not over a barrel...the alternatives you lead to are there on the Zseries..negative's mention for the mainframe?---Zseries? -- sorry to say is bogus. Too many Companies today see the advantages and are taking them. as for high price you mention..depending on the vendor yes..but there are alternatives even IBM.. Linux being the high points these days has made the Zseries even more of a $$ savings opportunity . others can add to this list..done pitching... From: Don Williams donb...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 01/30/2013 03:09 PM Subject:Re: mainframe selling points Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU For now, IBM has legacy customers over a barrel and can demand a high price for the mainframe hardware and operating systems. But for developers of new apps, they can choose a different platform, esp. if they believe that their customers will purchase whatever platform it takes to run them. I think eventually (i.e., over decades) legacy applications will be replaced with newer slicker apps that don't require IBM's big iron. Hmm, in the decades to come, will IBM be able to continue to command a high price for its big iron? Will employees who work with big iron continue to be well paid? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Tony, Whoever said IBM was price competitive, they are re only game in town , as far as big iron goes Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message:
Re: mainframe selling points
Smallest M/F with z/OS, z/VM, etc. seems to be too big for a lot of small or startup developers. These developers may have great ideas for slick new apps which could be developed on the M/F. The catch is they can't afford the minimum configuration. What's their solution? Probably to develop on a cheaper less robust platform. Later, when they have grown, it's not worth it to make a M/F version. zPDT may help, but there seems to be a large gap between the largest zPDT and the smallest System z; therefore the transition between the two may not be feasible. Over the years, most management has learned how to find all those hidden costs, so they can calculate reasonable TCO for both M/F and PC farms. In salaries surveys, it is clear that M/F staff get paid better that PC staff. However, we M/Fers need to be careful about saying fewer of us are needed for support. There are companies with a staff 10 or less that successfully manage farms of many many thousands of PC images. I think a lot of customers are over a barrel, because they cannot afford the conversion or the conversion would be too disruptive. Some, not all, vendors take advantage of that. Yes, I'm biased for z/OS because my z/OS expertise is much better that my zLinux skills. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ron Wells Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Big Iron...bad label... This is why Zseries...z/OS--z/VM--Linux...as for expensive? ...TCO...vs many many many of other platform(s) Lic fees so on..maint. as like anything else .. depending on your needs depends on the size of the Hardware you may need...as for the size.. you can always grow when you have to without reinstalling the world..including staffing.. as for M/Fers being well paid..sort ofbut there are not as many of us required at that site for support. other factors as well...security..DR.. as for newer slicker apps again...this all can be performed on the M/F as well.. and customers are not over a barrel...the alternatives you lead to are there on the Zseries..negative's mention for the mainframe?---Zseries? -- sorry to say is bogus. Too many Companies today see the advantages and are taking them. as for high price you mention..depending on the vendor yes..but there are alternatives even IBM.. Linux being the high points these days has made the Zseries even more of a $$ savings opportunity . others can add to this list..done pitching... From: Don Williams donb...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 01/30/2013 03:09 PM Subject:Re: mainframe selling points Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu For now, IBM has legacy customers over a barrel and can demand a high price for the mainframe hardware and operating systems. But for developers of new apps, they can choose a different platform, esp. if they believe that their customers will purchase whatever platform it takes to run them. I think eventually (i.e., over decades) legacy applications will be replaced with newer slicker apps that don't require IBM's big iron. Hmm, in the decades to come, will IBM be able to continue to command a high price for its big iron? Will employees who work with big iron continue to be well paid? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott Ford Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Tony, Whoever said IBM was price competitive, they are re only game in town , as far as big iron goes Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 30 January 2013 13:34, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/30/2013 10:30 AM, John McKown wrote: From what I remember, zPDT can only be used for software development activities. Yes, you can run CICS and DB2 on it. But not production work. I.e. you can't have your company's general end-users logging onto CICS and doing production work which runs the business. I guess they could do QA testing. zPDT is for software developers only. RDT (based on exactly the same technology) is for customers. http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/products/devtest/systemz/ Sure, but for customers to do development and testing only. Absolutely no production, or even production-like builds. Still no low-end zArch machines for a small company to run prod on. Tony H. --- -- - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff /
Re: Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost?
Hi John, One option is to join an Endevor USERS Group. Also, I would happy to help off line. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Any CA Endevor tutorial | training - low or no cost? The company for which I currently work decided to release all the CA Endevor knowledgeable people. Our product control people know how to do moves. The programmers know how to create packages for moving. But nobody knows how to add or update any of the infrastructure things such as processors My manager is very CA literate and so he's been reading over the books. His manager apparently feels that you have the CA supplied books, that should be sufficient to learn everything you need to know! So, given the above, does anybody know of any free or inexpensive (since it will come out of my pocket) training for CA Endevor? One of the guys in our group may get some free training from his wife, because she does Endevor work for another company (after she was released from this one). -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Could a small shop with a z114 (2818-A01) expect to get roughly the same percent savings as large shop with 3 or 4 zEC12s (2827-7A1)? The Share presentation seemed to based on large customers. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:14 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points On 1/30/2013 1:32 PM, Dana Mitchell wrote: Thanks Tony! thats exactly my point. Since IBM sells z, Power and intel boxen, they don't have to be competetive with themselves, that could be seen as canabilazation. IBM i is in a similar position in IBM as z/OS customers. Most that could easily convert off have done so. The ones left must pay the premium price to continue running. The cross-industry study conducted by Rubin Worldwide found that businesses with mainframes are more efficient and less expensive to operate. http://rubinworldwide.com/files/Mainframe_Economics.pdf Specifically: o 44% lower cost per credit card transaction o 31% lower IT spend per consumer loan o 26% lower cost per new vehicle o 25% lower cost per mega watt hour produced o 25% lower cost per retail store o 24% lower cost per hospital bed o 23% lower cost per barrel of oil o 20% lower cost per airline passenger Exhaustive TCO studies, conducted in actual customer environments, continue to show that mainframes are less expensive Enterprise technology to own, operate and upgrade that alternative platforms. https://share.confex.com/share/117/webprogram/Handout/Session9795/SHARE %20Orlando%2009795.pdf -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
My Father told me to always select the right tool for the job. It is so common sense, but he told me anyway. I'd be embarrassed to say how many times in my life I failed to do that. However, when I look around, there is no shortage of people trying to use the wrong tool. But you are quite right, different people will choose a different right tool. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don Williams wrote: begin excerpt Like languages, each platform has it advantages and disadvantages. People should use the most appropriate language, platform, etc. for each situation in order to provide the best solution. end excerpt I agree. How not? It is an innocuous, statesman-like straddle that it would be hard and pointless to disagree with. The rub comes when specific metrics must be chosen. How is appropriateness to be measured? By whom? In what time frame? John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TPI and CPENABLE
That would be RMF II Option 'L' (Library Lists) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
I guess that I don't like .NET for two main reasons. The first is that, as an FSF member, I really don't care for proprietary software 5hat the vendor owns and can change at their whim. A personal thing. Another was some bad experiences at work with some early versions which were used to interface with z/OS. There were problems but I had to PROVE that they were not on z/OS before they would even consider looking at their code because .NET code is never a problem! That left a very bad taste in my mouth because management believed everything they said, implying that I was ignorant or a liar. A management problem, not a technical one. On Jan 30, 2013 6:31 PM, Andrew Rowley and...@blackhillsoftware.com wrote: On 30/01/2013 3:42, John McKown wrote: We don't have the money to convert from CICS or batch COBOL to something else (likely Microsoft .NET based shudder/). I am curious why you single out .NET specifically here? I develop in .NET, and I think it is quite good, with some very powerful features. On the wider topic, the move away from desktop to web is a major plus for z/OS - it removes one of the big drivers for migration. The end user (ideally) can't tell the difference between a web interface deliverd by z/OS or Windows or Linux. z/OS is arguably in a more secure long term position than Windows because of the move away from desktop. Windows growth has been based on a copy on every desktop, which is looking shaky now. I'm more confident that z/OS will be recognizable in 20 years than Windows. The languages and development environments are one of the critical factors. RDz seems to be a solution for the IDE (although I wonder what percentage of sites use it) but the features available in the languages are probably more important. Things like generics and powerful collections (hashtables, dynamic lists/vectors, sets etc.) make development far more productive, and the programs more efficient. It's a long time since I did any real z/OS application development, so perhaps these facilities are available in the common z/OS languages now. If not, asking someone who has used them to program without them is like asking a builder to build a house without using power tools. The best approach for z/OS shops is probably to steer new development towards Java. This gives programmers a relatively familiar and productive environment to work in, and should drive down development costs. Unfortunately, I think many z/OS sites are resistant to Java. In reality, selling points are not important, until you remove the factors that result in z/OS being crossed off the list. If you can't do that, no amount of selling points will help. Andrew Rowley -- and...@blackhillsoftware.com +61 413 302 386 --**--**-- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
My favourite tool quote: Information Technology consists mainly finding the correct wrench to drive in the appropriate screw. If you don't get it I won't explain it. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: Don Williams donb...@gmail.com Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:59:18 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points My Father told me to always select the right tool for the job. It is so common sense, but he told me anyway. I'd be embarrassed to say how many times in my life I failed to do that. However, when I look around, there is no shortage of people trying to use the wrong tool. But you are quite right, different people will choose a different right tool. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don Williams wrote: begin excerpt Like languages, each platform has it advantages and disadvantages. People should use the most appropriate language, platform, etc. for each situation in order to provide the best solution. end excerpt I agree. How not? It is an innocuous, statesman-like straddle that it would be hard and pointless to disagree with. The rub comes when specific metrics must be chosen. How is appropriateness to be measured? By whom? In what time frame? John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Explanation may be necessary. All these years I've used the correct wrench to pound in the appropriate screw. ;-) On 1/30/2013 8:28 PM, Ted MacNEIL wrote: My favourite tool quote: Information Technology consists mainly finding the correct wrench to drive in the appropriate screw. If you don't get it I won't explain it. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: Don Williams donb...@gmail.com Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:59:18 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points My Father told me to always select the right tool for the job. It is so common sense, but he told me anyway. I'd be embarrassed to say how many times in my life I failed to do that. However, when I look around, there is no shortage of people trying to use the wrong tool. But you are quite right, different people will choose a different right tool. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don Williams wrote: begin excerpt Like languages, each platform has it advantages and disadvantages. People should use the most appropriate language, platform, etc. for each situation in order to provide the best solution. end excerpt I agree. How not? It is an innocuous, statesman-like straddle that it would be hard and pointless to disagree with. The rub comes when specific metrics must be chosen. How is appropriateness to be measured? By whom? In what time frame? John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Purging file from SPOOL
We have a started task running. It has various SPOOL files open, to which it's writing - SYSPRINT et al., including SYS1. We have a LOG SPIN command, which can close SYS1; subsequent output to that DD then goes to SYS2. Should we then be able to purge the SYS1? It's closed - nothing is writing to it. but P in SDSF says INVALID COMMAND. This is an issue because the whole point of doing a LOG SPIN is to be able to purge the closed piece of the log. What am I missing? Is there a way to purge the file? Thanks for any advice/thoughts/whatever. -- ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Purging file from SPOOL
AFAIK Unless the SYSOUT has FREE=CLOSE,SPIN=UNALLOCATE it will remain with the task until the task is cycled. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Phil Smith Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Purging file from SPOOL We have a started task running. It has various SPOOL files open, to which it's writing - SYSPRINT et al., including SYS1. We have a LOG SPIN command, which can close SYS1; subsequent output to that DD then goes to SYS2. Should we then be able to purge the SYS1? It's closed - nothing is writing to it. but P in SDSF says INVALID COMMAND. This is an issue because the whole point of doing a LOG SPIN is to be able to purge the closed piece of the log. What am I missing? Is there a way to purge the file? Thanks for any advice/thoughts/whatever. -- ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Don, Exactly...factoring in skillsets and money... Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: My Father told me to always select the right tool for the job. It is so common sense, but he told me anyway. I'd be embarrassed to say how many times in my life I failed to do that. However, when I look around, there is no shortage of people trying to use the wrong tool. But you are quite right, different people will choose a different right tool. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don Williams wrote: begin excerpt Like languages, each platform has it advantages and disadvantages. People should use the most appropriate language, platform, etc. for each situation in order to provide the best solution. end excerpt I agree. How not? It is an innocuous, statesman-like straddle that it would be hard and pointless to disagree with. The rub comes when specific metrics must be chosen. How is appropriateness to be measured? By whom? In what time frame? John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
Don, Hear this many a time from my father also, while I was under a car working Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: My Father told me to always select the right tool for the job. It is so common sense, but he told me anyway. I'd be embarrassed to say how many times in my life I failed to do that. However, when I look around, there is no shortage of people trying to use the wrong tool. But you are quite right, different people will choose a different right tool. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: mainframe selling points Don Williams wrote: begin excerpt Like languages, each platform has it advantages and disadvantages. People should use the most appropriate language, platform, etc. for each situation in order to provide the best solution. end excerpt I agree. How not? It is an innocuous, statesman-like straddle that it would be hard and pointless to disagree with. The rub comes when specific metrics must be chosen. How is appropriateness to be measured? By whom? In what time frame? John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
I don't think that the writer of the document (Dr. Rubin) compares apples to apples. IBM mainframe does not operate the network (DNS, DHCP, AD, email servers and many other base services). there are some tens of servers that has no comparable service in the mainframe world. The mainframe, from this point of view, is just another server, and the comparison should compare mainframe applications vs alternatives (re-hosting, rewrite), or the other hand - moving a server application into the mainframe. There are many questions to be asked about IBM marketing strategy, most has been asked in this thread. Have you even thought why does Cobol program runs much faster on wintel then a mainframe? Why is sorting much efficient on wintel? I am sure most CEOs knows what their spending is, and where the budgert goes. And at end, if they could begin from scratch, i am sure most of them wouldn't select mainframe as their platform of computing. would you? ITschak On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.comwrote: On 1/30/2013 1:32 PM, Dana Mitchell wrote: Thanks Tony! thats exactly my point. Since IBM sells z, Power and intel boxen, they don't have to be competetive with themselves, that could be seen as canabilazation. IBM i is in a similar position in IBM as z/OS customers. Most that could easily convert off have done so. The ones left must pay the premium price to continue running. The cross-industry study conducted by Rubin Worldwide found that businesses with mainframes are more efficient and less expensive to operate. http://rubinworldwide.com/**files/Mainframe_Economics.pdfhttp://rubinworldwide.com/files/Mainframe_Economics.pdf Specifically: o 44% lower cost per credit card transaction o 31% lower IT spend per consumer loan o 26% lower cost per new vehicle o 25% lower cost per mega watt hour produced o 25% lower cost per retail store o 24% lower cost per hospital bed o 23% lower cost per barrel of oil o 20% lower cost per airline passenger Exhaustive TCO studies, conducted in actual customer environments, continue to show that mainframes are less expensive Enterprise technology to own, operate and upgrade that alternative platforms. https://share.confex.com/**share/117/webprogram/Handout/** Session9795/SHARE%20Orlando%**2009795.pdfhttps://share.confex.com/share/117/webprogram/Handout/Session9795/SHARE%20Orlando%2009795.pdf -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.**com/ http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ --**--**-- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
IBM mainframe does not operate the network (DNS, DHCP, AD, email servers and many other base services) Oh, yes it does! WebSphere, Lotus Notes, DNS were all there in 1999! - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
So why don't you save the money and run your corporate network from the mainframe ;-) On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: IBM mainframe does not operate the network (DNS, DHCP, AD, email servers and many other base services) Oh, yes it does! WebSphere, Lotus Notes, DNS were all there in 1999! - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: mainframe selling points
A couple points (and not new ones, but I guess they need repeating): 1. You don't need a zPDT, RUTz, or zEnterprise machine to develop and test for z/OS and its middleware. In fact, in many cases you don't need to pay even one dollar. IBM's PartnerWorld Validation Program for z/OS is one notable example: https://www-304.ibm.com/partnerworld/wps/servlet/ContentHandler/stg_com_agr_zos That's a real zEnterprise machine located in Dallas, as it happens. Free is a rather good price! Here's some more information: https://www-304.ibm.com/partnerworld/wps/servlet/ContentHandler/isv_com_tsp_iic_resources_systemz_remote_offerings As an aside, software vendors sometimes cannot replicate customer-experienced bugs no matter what resources they have internally or externally. That's a common problem on other platforms and, in my experience, substantially less common (though not unknown) on IBM mainframes. At least with IBM mainframes there's an incredibly rich set of diagnostic facilities for problem determination and fault analysis, even in the base z/OS operating system and zEnterprise hardware products. 2. You're *already* developing for mainframes if you selected among several popular application hosting environments. Java Enterprise Edition (JEE) is one notable example among several. In fact, lately (with IBM's WebSphere Liberty Profile) you don't even need to add a JEE runtime to z/OS to run JEE applications. You just add the application itself, and if you're licensed for base z/OS you already have what you need on z/OS. If you've tried the WebSphere Liberty Profile you know what I mean, and if you haven't you should. I think this reality is a major part of the story that an awful lot of forum participants have missed or don't fully appreciate. Almost nobody develops on the same machine to which they deploy -- anybody heard of the Internet? -- and most developers are developing in ways entirely consistent with deployment to zEnterprise machines. IBM has brought the mountain to (you know who) and continues to do that as application hosting environments evolve while also preserving, enhancing, and extending existing application environments. It has always been so, actually. So whether you're a JEE, JRuby/Ruby, Jython/Python, LAMP, Mono, MUMPS/M, or... whatever you develop with, chances are excellent you're already developing for zEnterprise (z/OS and/or Linux on z). And if you want to validate that reality for your particular application, is free OK? I hope so. Timothy Sipples Consulting Enterprise IT Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Check out Apple Q1 2013 hardware sales: By the numbers | ZDNet
IIRC the G6(XBOX) and Z6 Share much of same geometry. From Webb's rollout paper in 2007: Siblings, not identical twins Share lots of DNA –IBM 65nm SOI technology –Design building blocks: •latches, SRAMs, regfiles, dataflow elements –Large portions of FXU, BFU, DFU, MC, GX –EI3 interface technology –Core pipeline design style •High-frequency, low-latency, mostly-in-order –Many designers Different personalities –Very different ISAs= very different cores –Cache hierarchy and coherency model –SMP topology and protocol –Chip organization –IBM z6 optimized for Enterprise Data Serving Hub In a message dated 1/31/2013 12:30:04 A.M. Central Standard Time, sipp...@sg.ibm.com writes: Keep in mind that IBM optimizes zEnterprise processors for high performance (and highly concentrated performance) of multiple concurrent large scale workloads and continuous operations. That's not a good description of an iPad processor's requirements, for example. But if you've got some other ideas -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
