subject:"Re\: Mainframe Modernization"

You’re quite foolish in thinking just because a corporation is using AWS (or 
Azure/Google clouds) they are doing it to replace or supplement the mainframe. 
Own me some more fool.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 10:12 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

How about JPMorgan Chase who also use AWS in their enterprise 
https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/jpmorgan-chase/. It's the 
tip of the iceberg.

You have obviously been out of the industry for a while. The typical 
enterprise IT system these days is heterogeneous. It's all about 
integration. CICS have recently added support for correlation tokens so 
a transaction can be tracked to the source of origin on distributed 
systems.

On 23/10/2021 9:58 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> HSBC is one poorly run bank. Since 2000 to today the stock has been cut in 
> half. 60 to 30. So, I wouldn’t be touting their decision making. Also, the 
> AWS signing was so they could layoff thousands of employees. A move that 
> wreaks of desperation.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 9:39 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major 
>> bank does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the 
>> process.
> Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world.
> AWS offers 99.999% uptime SLAs so if HSBC suffered an outage it's going
> to be expensive for Amazon.
>
> Talking about outages a few years ago my bank suffered a catastrophic
> outage when a batch job was incorrectly restarted from the wrong step.
> Wages and pensions were not processed. RBS had a CA7 maintenance error
> which caused weeks of chaos which was blamed on lack of skills after
> outsourcing their operations to Hyberbad. They were find £57M by the UK
> government. Air New Zealand suffered a catastrophic mainframe failure
> caused by the incompetence of IBM global services carrying out a DR
> test. Customers couldn't board their planes. It doesn't matter how solid
> your IT platforms are when humans can make errors.
>
>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
>> assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
>> You've been pwned man, take a breather.
>>
>> "For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict
>> when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of
>> financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by
>> integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS
>> Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."
>>
>> https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018
>>
>>
>> On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little 
>>> over 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at 
>>> slightly over a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 
>>> billion in assets. Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th 
>>> bank in the real top 20 is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. 
>>> These numbers are as of October 10th, 2021.
>>>
>>> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
>>> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
>>> cards.
>>>
>>> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
>>> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
>>> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
>>> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>>>
>>> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
>>> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
>>> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
>>> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>>>
>>>
 However the management was not happy because of that, just because
 they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
 system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).



>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>

Re: Mainframe Modernization

JPM isn’t replacing their mainframe either. No banks that want security, 
uptime, and transaction processing AWS can’t match are. Wait til IBM’s 2nm chip 
becomes the norm.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 10:12 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

How about JPMorgan Chase who also use AWS in their enterprise 
https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/jpmorgan-chase/. It's the 
tip of the iceberg.

You have obviously been out of the industry for a while. The typical 
enterprise IT system these days is heterogeneous. It's all about 
integration. CICS have recently added support for correlation tokens so 
a transaction can be tracked to the source of origin on distributed 
systems.

On 23/10/2021 9:58 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> HSBC is one poorly run bank. Since 2000 to today the stock has been cut in 
> half. 60 to 30. So, I wouldn’t be touting their decision making. Also, the 
> AWS signing was so they could layoff thousands of employees. A move that 
> wreaks of desperation.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 9:39 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major 
>> bank does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the 
>> process.
> Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world.
> AWS offers 99.999% uptime SLAs so if HSBC suffered an outage it's going
> to be expensive for Amazon.
>
> Talking about outages a few years ago my bank suffered a catastrophic
> outage when a batch job was incorrectly restarted from the wrong step.
> Wages and pensions were not processed. RBS had a CA7 maintenance error
> which caused weeks of chaos which was blamed on lack of skills after
> outsourcing their operations to Hyberbad. They were find £57M by the UK
> government. Air New Zealand suffered a catastrophic mainframe failure
> caused by the incompetence of IBM global services carrying out a DR
> test. Customers couldn't board their planes. It doesn't matter how solid
> your IT platforms are when humans can make errors.
>
>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
>> assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
>> You've been pwned man, take a breather.
>>
>> "For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict
>> when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of
>> financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by
>> integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS
>> Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."
>>
>> https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018
>>
>>
>> On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little 
>>> over 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at 
>>> slightly over a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 
>>> billion in assets. Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th 
>>> bank in the real top 20 is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. 
>>> These numbers are as of October 10th, 2021.
>>>
>>> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
>>> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
>>> cards.
>>>
>>> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
>>> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
>>> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
>>> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>>>
>>> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
>>> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
>>> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
>>> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>>>
>>>
 However the management was not happy because of that, just because
 they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
 system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).



>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>

Re: Mainframe Modernization

LOL, organizations have been running multiple systems for decades. Before you 
were born.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 10:12 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

How about JPMorgan Chase who also use AWS in their enterprise 
https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/jpmorgan-chase/. It's the 
tip of the iceberg.

You have obviously been out of the industry for a while. The typical 
enterprise IT system these days is heterogeneous. It's all about 
integration. CICS have recently added support for correlation tokens so 
a transaction can be tracked to the source of origin on distributed 
systems.

On 23/10/2021 9:58 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> HSBC is one poorly run bank. Since 2000 to today the stock has been cut in 
> half. 60 to 30. So, I wouldn’t be touting their decision making. Also, the 
> AWS signing was so they could layoff thousands of employees. A move that 
> wreaks of desperation.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 9:39 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major 
>> bank does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the 
>> process.
> Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world.
> AWS offers 99.999% uptime SLAs so if HSBC suffered an outage it's going
> to be expensive for Amazon.
>
> Talking about outages a few years ago my bank suffered a catastrophic
> outage when a batch job was incorrectly restarted from the wrong step.
> Wages and pensions were not processed. RBS had a CA7 maintenance error
> which caused weeks of chaos which was blamed on lack of skills after
> outsourcing their operations to Hyberbad. They were find £57M by the UK
> government. Air New Zealand suffered a catastrophic mainframe failure
> caused by the incompetence of IBM global services carrying out a DR
> test. Customers couldn't board their planes. It doesn't matter how solid
> your IT platforms are when humans can make errors.
>
>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
>> assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
>> You've been pwned man, take a breather.
>>
>> "For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict
>> when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of
>> financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by
>> integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS
>> Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."
>>
>> https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018
>>
>>
>> On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little 
>>> over 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at 
>>> slightly over a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 
>>> billion in assets. Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th 
>>> bank in the real top 20 is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. 
>>> These numbers are as of October 10th, 2021.
>>>
>>> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
>>> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
>>> cards.
>>>
>>> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
>>> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
>>> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
>>> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>>>
>>> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
>>> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
>>> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
>>> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>>>
>>>
 However the management was not happy because of that, just because
 they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
 system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).



>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access

Re: Mainframe Modernization

How about JPMorgan Chase who also use AWS in their enterprise
https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/jpmorgan-chase/. It's the
tip of the iceberg.

You have obviously been out of the industry for a while. The typical
enterprise IT system these days is heterogeneous. It's all about
integration. CICS have recently added support for correlation tokens so
a transaction can be tracked to the source of origin on distributed
systems.

On 23/10/2021 9:58 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

HSBC is one poorly run bank. Since 2000 to today the stock has been cut in
half. 60 to 30. So, I wouldn’t be touting their decision making. Also, the AWS
signing was so they could layoff thousands of employees. A move that wreaks of
desperation.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, October 22, 2021, 9:39 PM, David Crayford
wrote:

On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major bank
does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the process.

Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world.
AWS offers 99.999% uptime SLAs so if HSBC suffered an outage it's going
to be expensive for Amazon.

Talking about outages a few years ago my bank suffered a catastrophic
outage when a batch job was incorrectly restarted from the wrong step.
Wages and pensions were not processed. RBS had a CA7 maintenance error
which caused weeks of chaos which was blamed on lack of skills after
outsourcing their operations to Hyberbad. They were find £57M by the UK
government. Air New Zealand suffered a catastrophic mainframe failure
caused by the incompetence of IBM global services carrying out a DR
test. Customers couldn't board their planes. It doesn't matter how solid
your IT platforms are when humans can make errors.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford
wrote:

Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
You've been pwned man, take a breather.

"For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict
when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of
financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by
integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS
Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."

https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018

On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:

Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little over 1
trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at slightly over a
trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion in assets. Which
doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the real top 20 is
Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. These numbers are as of October
10th, 2021.

Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many banks
process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit cards.

I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.

The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.

Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.

However the management was not happy because of that, just because
they want to switch the mainframe off. Nevermind, the new transaction
system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to

Re: Mainframe Modernization

HSBC is one poorly run bank. Since 2000 to today the stock has been cut in 
half. 60 to 30. So, I wouldn’t be touting their decision making. Also, the AWS 
signing was so they could layoff thousands of employees. A move that wreaks of 
desperation.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 9:39 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major 
> bank does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the 
> process.

Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world. 
AWS offers 99.999% uptime SLAs so if HSBC suffered an outage it's going 
to be expensive for Amazon.

Talking about outages a few years ago my bank suffered a catastrophic 
outage when a batch job was incorrectly restarted from the wrong step. 
Wages and pensions were not processed. RBS had a CA7 maintenance error 
which caused weeks of chaos which was blamed on lack of skills after 
outsourcing their operations to Hyberbad. They were find £57M by the UK 
government. Air New Zealand suffered a catastrophic mainframe failure 
caused by the incompetence of IBM global services carrying out a DR 
test. Customers couldn't board their planes. It doesn't matter how solid 
your IT platforms are when humans can make errors.


>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
> assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
> You've been pwned man, take a breather.
>
> "For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict
> when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of
> financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by
> integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS
> Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."
>
> https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018
>
>
> On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little 
>> over 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at 
>> slightly over a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion 
>> in assets. Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the 
>> real top 20 is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. These numbers 
>> are as of October 10th, 2021.
>>
>> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
>> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
>> cards.
>>
>> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>>
>>
>>
>> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
>> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
>> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
>> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>>
>> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
>> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
>> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
>> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>>
>>
>>> However the management was not happy because of that, just because
>>> they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
>>> system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

HSBC isn’t replacing their mainframe. Because they’re not stupid. Although 
google HSBC hack and see quite a few problems. And AWS is down quite 
frequently. As is Azure and Google cloud. And security on those cloud services 
isn’t even close to the mainframe security.
Your Fintech fetish is also dubious. FDIC insure those deposits? Are they 
regulated like banks? Backed by governments? I doubt Jamie Dimon is losing 
sleep over them.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 9:39 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major 
> bank does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the 
> process.

Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world. 
AWS offers 99.999% uptime SLAs so if HSBC suffered an outage it's going 
to be expensive for Amazon.

Talking about outages a few years ago my bank suffered a catastrophic 
outage when a batch job was incorrectly restarted from the wrong step. 
Wages and pensions were not processed. RBS had a CA7 maintenance error 
which caused weeks of chaos which was blamed on lack of skills after 
outsourcing their operations to Hyberbad. They were find £57M by the UK 
government. Air New Zealand suffered a catastrophic mainframe failure 
caused by the incompetence of IBM global services carrying out a DR 
test. Customers couldn't board their planes. It doesn't matter how solid 
your IT platforms are when humans can make errors.


>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
> assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
> You've been pwned man, take a breather.
>
> "For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict
> when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of
> financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by
> integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS
> Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."
>
> https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018
>
>
> On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little 
>> over 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at 
>> slightly over a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion 
>> in assets. Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the 
>> real top 20 is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. These numbers 
>> are as of October 10th, 2021.
>>
>> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
>> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
>> cards.
>>
>> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>>
>>
>>
>> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
>> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
>> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
>> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>>
>> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
>> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
>> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
>> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>>
>>
>>> However the management was not happy because of that, just because
>>> they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
>>> system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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For

Re: Mainframe Modernization

On 23/10/2021 9:04 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major bank
does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the process.

Well, obviously HSBC do and they're the 6th biggest bank in the world.
AWS offers 99.999% uptime SLAs so if HSBC suffered an outage it's going
to be expensive for Amazon.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford
wrote:

Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
You've been pwned man, take a breather.

https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018

On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:

Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many banks
process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit cards.

I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

There’s a website called downdetector.com which logs the enormous number of 
outages on AWS. I don’t think any banks have a similar website for their 
mainframe outages. Own me some more.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in 
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud. 
You've been pwned man, take a breather.

"For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict 
when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of 
financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by 
integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS 
Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."

https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018


On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little over 
> 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at slightly over 
> a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion in assets. 
> Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the real top 20 
> is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. These numbers are as of 
> October 10th, 2021.
>
> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
> cards.
>
> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>
>
>
> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>
> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>
>
>> However the management was not happy because of that, just because
>> they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
>> system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

No bank needs AWS to process millions of transactions an hour. Every major bank 
does it on the mainframe without the outages AWS injects into the process.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in 
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud. 
You've been pwned man, take a breather.

"For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict 
when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of 
financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by 
integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS 
Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."

https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018


On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little over 
> 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at slightly over 
> a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion in assets. 
> Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the real top 20 
> is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. These numbers are as of 
> October 10th, 2021.
>
> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
> cards.
>
> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>
>
>
> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>
> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>
>
>> However the management was not happy because of that, just because
>> they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
>> system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

HSBC isn’t Australian. And they run a mainframe.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 7:38 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in 
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud. 
You've been pwned man, take a breather.

"For large financial institutions, it can be extremely hard to predict 
when your architecture may need to scale to process millions of 
financial transactions per day. HSBC addressed this challenge by 
integrating its on-premises mainframe with AWS services such as AWS 
Lambda, Amazon Kinesis, and Amazon DynamoDB."

https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018


On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little over 
> 1 trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at slightly over 
> a trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion in assets. 
> Which doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the real top 20 
> is Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. These numbers are as of 
> October 10th, 2021.
>
> Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many 
> banks process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit 
> cards.
>
> I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.
>
>
>
> The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank
> with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production
> technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$
> making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.
>
> Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so
> you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer
> solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not
> uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.
>
>
>> However the management was not happy because of that, just because
>> they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction
>> system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Haha, you don't give up. How about this. HSBC has nearly $3T dollars in
assets. They have integrated their mainframe with Amazons AWS cloud.
You've been pwned man, take a breather.

https://www.slideshare.net/AmazonWebServices/how-hsbc-uses-serverless-to-process-millions-of-transactions-in-real-time-fsv305-aws-reinvent-2018

On 22/10/2021 7:51 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:

Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many banks
process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit cards.

I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Andrew Rowley


On 22/10/2021 8:21 pm, David Crayford wrote:


I wouldn't consider a drag race using a prime number sieve a good
indication of the overall performance of Java on z/OS. That's a very 
specific use case and not one that anybody would ever use on the 
mainframe.


That's true, and that's the reason it's referred to as a drag race. A 
test of speed at a particular task without much greater meaning.


But I would have expected it to favour C++. Everything is machine code 
in the end, so I am sure that you could write faster C++ than Java for 
almost anything. But I think it shows that it is wrong to assume Java is 
slow, and it is fast enough that choice of algorithms and data 
structures have more influence than the language.




IBM also talks a lot about RNI and processor cache... it turns out 
garbage collection is good for cache efficiency too. It moves all the 
active data into a smaller chunk of memory, which makes better use of 
processor cache and is good for your RNI.


That sounds far fetched! Java's stop the world GC cycles are not good 
for performance. Java doesn't support reference types so all of it's 
data even if it's local is on the heap.


I understand the JIT compiler will use the stack for local objects i.e. 
where they cannot escape a limited scope.


New/delete, GETMAIN/FREEMAIN etc. all have overhead. How much? Can you 
measure it? GC just moves the overhead to one point where it can be 
measured. The pause is a problem for some work, but for e.g. batch it 
doesn't matter.


Locality of reference for memory does have a big influence on speed (IBM 
even gives numbers for the cache levels) so I would expect compacting 
the heap should make the program faster. Potentially much faster, 
depending on allocation patterns.


Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Colin Paice

Rather than load jar files  from disk - it may copy from the data space.
When you "save" an image it may write it to the dataspace.  When you
preload from the saved file on disk, it may just load into the dataspace.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 16:45, Tony Harminc  wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 05:22, Colin Paice  wrote:
> >
> > With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in
> a
> > data space.
>
> How does it execute code from a dataspace?
>
> Tony H.
>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Tony Harminc

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 05:22, Colin Paice  wrote:
>
> With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in a
> data space.

How does it execute code from a dataspace?

Tony H.

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Seymour J Metz

Go? Lua? Ruby? Rust?

--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Crayford 
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

I think "Mainframe Modernization" is an umbrella term that can be used
to describe many different things. That may be new UIs  or application
modernization such as adding a REST API to a legacy application. IBM are
doing a great job adding modern languages to z/OS that have features
traditional mainframe languages like COBOL lack.
I'm currently working on a product that takes monitoring data from
legacy products and streams it to analytics platforms such as Elastic,
Splunk or publises metrics for Prometheus/Grafana. Customers already use
these platforms for their distributed applications which interact with
the mainframe and it's important for them to see the entire stack using
modern solutions.

I don't consider 'cloud' or 'devops' to be BS. Devops has transformed
the way we work. We use Git, Jira, Bitbucket, Jenkins, Artifactory etc.
When we merge a branch in Git it fires off an automated Jenkins build
that can package our product and run tests. The old way of doing things
manually using batch jobs was error prone and tedious.
WRT cloud, I can stand up a personal development z/OS VM using Ansible
Tower in less than 2 minutes. I can do that from a web UI or by calling
a REST API. On the distributed side I'm a big fan of orchestration
technologies such a Kubernetes.  I run a single command to stand up a
cluster of VMs to deploy a software stack for testing.

On 21/10/2021 6:50 am, David Elliot wrote:
> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
> Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Bob Bridges

Wow!  That one goes in my bookmarks!

---
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/* Beware of any Christian leader who does not walk with a limp.  -Bob Mumford 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
allan winston
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 12:55

   I stand corrected.  Thanks for the link to https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/, 
which I was previously unaware of.

--- On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:35 PM Ed Jaffe  
wrote:
> Google Schmoogle...
>
> The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in 
> Appendix C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390 V2R1 BatchPipeWorks Users Guide:
> https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/SA22-7457-00.pdf

> --- On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:
> > When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
> > BatchPipes is a completely different program product.

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Seymour J Metz

OREXX in OS/2 writes the tokenized form into extended attributes on the first 
call. Could Java do something similar? RFE?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Colin Paice [colinpai...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 6:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

"... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
classes in a data space. "
Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.

yes - but better.   It keeps improving the hot spot code to make it more
efficient.
If IBM were to ship the "saved" classes, it would make every one's system
run faster from day 1, rather than have a slow first few days.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 11:25, David Spiegel  wrote:

> "... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
> classes in a data space. "
> Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.
>
> On 2021-10-22 05:21, Colin Paice wrote:
> > With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in
> a
> > data space. You can now "save" the latest image to disk, and reload that
> > next time you run.  If you save it every day, you  will be able to
> restore
> > the latest and greatest optimised version.
> > Without the shared classes, the first use  after IPL is slow, the second
> is
> > much faster.  See "Some of the mysteries of Java shared classes"
> > <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcolinpaice.blog%2F2021%2F05%2F24%2Fsome-of-the-mysteries-of-java-shared-classes%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C51fe13f38fde46feae6b08d9953d67de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637704913299328393%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=64i2zFrbqIdMwZ%2BokN3va%2B3NjZTpinrfu8tXWZ74rHY%3Dreserved=0
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 08:52, Andrew Rowley <
> and...@blackhillsoftware.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:
> >>>  Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know
> >> the language and it's been debugged.  Schools may teach it but they too
> >> want to make money and look good because they can say it's modern and
> that
> >> is what they push.  Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at the total
> cost
> >> is doomed to fail.
> >> Don't write off Java too quickly. I previously posted about Software
> >> Drag Racing, which was a competition to test the speed of different
> >> languages.
> >>
> >> In the initial test on z/OS, Java was over 3 1/2 times faster than C++.
> >> With some tweaking, C++ ran as fast as Java, but not significantly
> faster.
> >>
> >> The results are written up here:
> >>
> >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackhillsoftware.com%2Fnews%2F2021%2F08%2F10%2Fjava-vs-c-drag-racing-on-z-os%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C51fe13f38fde46feae6b08d9953d67de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637704913299328393%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=P8SGNWwrhdsY4zjIL9a0PTOhnihTknXaYivvWbEaA7M%3Dreserved=0
> >>
> >> If you have a zIIP and your general purpose CPs are not full speed, Java
> >> might be the fastest language on your system by a big margin... and it
> >> doesn't count against general purpose CP usage.
> >>
> >> Java will compile to machine code where it makes a difference to
> >> performance. Just in Time compilation has some performance advantages:
> >> - it can optimize for the exact hardware
> >> - it can leave out infrequently used code paths and compile them later
> >> if they are actually required, making the machine code smaller and more
> >> efficient
> >> - it can monitor the code execution and recompile the hottest parts with
> >> extra optimizations
> >>
> >> IBM also talks a lot about RNI and processor cache... it turns out
> >> garbage collection is good for cache efficiency too. It moves all the
> >> active data into a smaller chunk of memory, which makes better use of
> >> processor cache and is good for your RNI.
> >>
> >> If you have well defined, well understood programs that are big CPU
> >> users, it certainly could be worth rewriting them in Java.
> >>
> >> (Knowing the language and debugging programs applies to any language...
> >> and I'm not denying you can write large pro

Re: Mainframe Modernization

Why the future belongs to banks, and not Fintechs 
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Why the future belongs to banks, and not Fintechs
 
With emerging Fintech services taking the world of finance by storm, it might 
seem like banks are in...
  |   |

  |

  |

  



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 22, 2021, 6:35 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 22/10/2021 5:59 pm, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
> W dniu 22.10.2021 o 03:12, David Crayford pisze:
>> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the 
>>> back end. Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance 
>>> claims, investing. And with very high confidence the transactions 
>>> are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how more modern the 
>>> mainframe could be actually.
>>> Bill J
>>
>> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
>> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their 
>> IT systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software 
>> architect from a bank who told me that the explosion of internet 
>> banking app usage has pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to 
>> unacceptable levels. 70% of those transactions were reads (folks 
>> checking their bank balances on their phones). Their solution was use 
>> Apache Kafka to replicate the data to Apache Cassandra and only hit 
>> the mainframe for writes.
>
> BTDT, but not on Kafka. Indeed, the "cache system" ran up to 40% 
> transaction.
> Sounds good? Imagine: 40% less workload...
> NO
> There are light and heavy CICS transactions and cached ones were light.
> Proof: some day the cache stopped working due to system failure. 
> During rush hours.
> Observations from mainframe side: number of transactions per second 
> blew up. Average response time ...decreased a little bit.
> I was really happy reporting it to management.


The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank 
with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production 
technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$ 
making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.

Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so 
you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer 
solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not 
uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.


>
> However the management was not happy because of that, just because 
> they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction 
> system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).
>
>
>

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Australia’s largest bank is Commonwealth Bank of Australia with a little over 1 
trillion in assets in Aussie dollars. ANZ banking group #2 at slightly over a 
trillion in assets. Wetpac banking 3rd at around 900 billion in assets. Which 
doesn’t put any of them in the top 20. The 20th bank in the real top 20 is 
Group BPCE of France at approx 1.5 trillion. These numbers are as of October 
10th, 2021.

Millions of transactions a day is comical. Millions per hour is what many banks 
process. 1 billion credit card transactions happen daily. Just credit cards.

I look forward to seeing your proof of an Aussie bank in the top 20.



The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank 
with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production 
technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$ 
making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.

Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so 
you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer 
solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not 
uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.


>
> However the management was not happy because of that, just because 
> they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction 
> system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).
>
>
>

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Radoslaw Skorupka


W dniu 22.10.2021 o 12:35, David Crayford pisze:

On 22/10/2021 5:59 pm, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

W dniu 22.10.2021 o 03:12, David Crayford pisze:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the 
back end. Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance 
claims, investing. And with very high confidence the transactions 
are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how more modern the 
mainframe could be actually.

Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of 
their IT systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software 
architect from a bank who told me that the explosion of internet 
banking app usage has pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to 
unacceptable levels. 70% of those transactions were reads (folks 
checking their bank balances on their phones). Their solution was 
use Apache Kafka to replicate the data to Apache Cassandra and only 
hit the mainframe for writes.


BTDT, but not on Kafka. Indeed, the "cache system" ran up to 40% 
transaction.

Sounds good? Imagine: 40% less workload...
NO
There are light and heavy CICS transactions and cached ones were light.
Proof: some day the cache stopped working due to system failure. 
During rush hours.
Observations from mainframe side: number of transactions per second 
blew up. Average response time ...decreased a little bit.

I was really happy reporting it to management.



The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank 
with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production 
technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent 
$$ making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.


Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS 
so you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The 
customer solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. 
It's not uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a 
different matter.


The link I did not provide was a bank with hundreds of millions 
transactions a day.

And I didn't say caching is stupid or "they" are stupid.
I just told a story. Real story. And paid attention to misleading 
indicator.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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TSO Pipe command (Was: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization)

2021-10-22 Thread Hobart Spitz

Ed, Johnathan;

You guys are *so *lucky.

A few quick notes to get you started:

   - Unlike Unix piping, terminal output from the last stage is not
   implied.  (You'll find this makes sense later.)
   pipe < some.dsn | count words lines | term
   - The <, >, and >> are filters on their own, also unlike Unix.  (You'll
   see this makes sense later.)
   - Pipes I/O is better than execio.  You can read and write both datasets
   and DD names:
   "pipe < ddname=sysut1 | translate lower | > lower.case"
   - Pipes is integrated with REXX.  You can use variables and stems:
   "pipe var fred | split | stem fredwords."
   -
   - Stay with single stream piping for now.  You can do a lot with single
   streams before you need to go to the next level.
   - Stages can be aware of their position in the stream.  Some stages
   behave differently depending where they appear, especially in first
   position.  (You'll also see that this makes sense later.)
   - *pipe help   count* and/or *pipe ahelp translate* is a full-screen
   resource.   *pipe help*  for a menu.

Take a look at the marist.edu pipeline site, especially Melinda Varian's
introduction to pipes.

Be prepared to blow the minds of your coworkers and your management

I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

When I first tried Pipes, not giving a pipe specification just gave an
obscure syntax error.

Good luck.

OREXXMan
Would you rather pass data in move mode (*nix piping) or locate mode
(Pipes) or via disk (JCL)?  Why do you think you rarely see *nix commands
with more than a dozen filters, while Pipelines specifications are commonly
over 100s of stages, and 1000s of stages are not uncommon.
REXX is the new C.


On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 10:59 AM Ed Jaffe 
wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 8:18 AM, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote:
> > ... I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked
>
>   READY
> pipe
>   BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
>   READY
>
> --
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> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Colin Paice

"... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
classes in a data space. "
Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.

yes - but better.   It keeps improving the hot spot code to make it more
efficient.
If IBM were to ship the "saved" classes, it would make every one's system
run faster from day 1, rather than have a slow first few days.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 11:25, David Spiegel  wrote:

> "... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
> classes in a data space. "
> Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.
>
> On 2021-10-22 05:21, Colin Paice wrote:
> > With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in
> a
> > data space. You can now "save" the latest image to disk, and reload that
> > next time you run.  If you save it every day, you  will be able to
> restore
> > the latest and greatest optimised version.
> > Without the shared classes, the first use  after IPL is slow, the second
> is
> > much faster.  See "Some of the mysteries of Java shared classes"
> > <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcolinpaice.blog%2F2021%2F05%2F24%2Fsome-of-the-mysteries-of-java-shared-classes%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C51fe13f38fde46feae6b08d9953d67de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637704913299328393%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=64i2zFrbqIdMwZ%2BokN3va%2B3NjZTpinrfu8tXWZ74rHY%3Dreserved=0
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 08:52, Andrew Rowley <
> and...@blackhillsoftware.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:
> >>>  Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know
> >> the language and it's been debugged.  Schools may teach it but they too
> >> want to make money and look good because they can say it's modern and
> that
> >> is what they push.  Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at the total
> cost
> >> is doomed to fail.
> >> Don't write off Java too quickly. I previously posted about Software
> >> Drag Racing, which was a competition to test the speed of different
> >> languages.
> >>
> >> In the initial test on z/OS, Java was over 3 1/2 times faster than C++.
> >> With some tweaking, C++ ran as fast as Java, but not significantly
> faster.
> >>
> >> The results are written up here:
> >>
> >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackhillsoftware.com%2Fnews%2F2021%2F08%2F10%2Fjava-vs-c-drag-racing-on-z-os%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C51fe13f38fde46feae6b08d9953d67de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637704913299328393%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=P8SGNWwrhdsY4zjIL9a0PTOhnihTknXaYivvWbEaA7M%3Dreserved=0
> >>
> >> If you have a zIIP and your general purpose CPs are not full speed, Java
> >> might be the fastest language on your system by a big margin... and it
> >> doesn't count against general purpose CP usage.
> >>
> >> Java will compile to machine code where it makes a difference to
> >> performance. Just in Time compilation has some performance advantages:
> >> - it can optimize for the exact hardware
> >> - it can leave out infrequently used code paths and compile them later
> >> if they are actually required, making the machine code smaller and more
> >> efficient
> >> - it can monitor the code execution and recompile the hottest parts with
> >> extra optimizations
> >>
> >> IBM also talks a lot about RNI and processor cache... it turns out
> >> garbage collection is good for cache efficiency too. It moves all the
> >> active data into a smaller chunk of memory, which makes better use of
> >> processor cache and is good for your RNI.
> >>
> >> If you have well defined, well understood programs that are big CPU
> >> users, it certainly could be worth rewriting them in Java.
> >>
> >> (Knowing the language and debugging programs applies to any language...
> >> and I'm not denying you can write large programs and inefficient code in
> >> Java as much as in any other language.)
> >>
> >> Andrew Rowley
> >> Black Hill Software
> >>
> >> --
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> >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 22/10/2021 5:59 pm, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

W dniu 22.10.2021 o 03:12, David Crayford pisze:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the 
back end. Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance 
claims, investing. And with very high confidence the transactions 
are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how more modern the 
mainframe could be actually.

Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their 
IT systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software 
architect from a bank who told me that the explosion of internet 
banking app usage has pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to 
unacceptable levels. 70% of those transactions were reads (folks 
checking their bank balances on their phones). Their solution was use 
Apache Kafka to replicate the data to Apache Cassandra and only hit 
the mainframe for writes.


BTDT, but not on Kafka. Indeed, the "cache system" ran up to 40% 
transaction.

Sounds good? Imagine: 40% less workload...
NO
There are light and heavy CICS transactions and cached ones were light.
Proof: some day the cache stopped working due to system failure. 
During rush hours.
Observations from mainframe side: number of transactions per second 
blew up. Average response time ...decreased a little bit.

I was really happy reporting it to management.



The link I provided was Australia's largest (and a world top 20) bank 
with millions of transactions a day. They're not stupid, production 
technology choices are critical which is probably why IBM have spent $$ 
making sure Kafka runs ok on z/OS.


Caching isn't a new idea. It's a common CICS design pattern using TS so 
you don't have to make an expensive call to DB2 or IMS. The customer 
solution is not call the mainframe for read transactions. It's not 
uncommon, it starting to become pervasive. Writes are a different matter.





However the management was not happy because of that, just because 
they want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction 
system has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).






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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread David Spiegel

"... With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled
classes in a data space. "

Hmm ... Sounds (functionally) like LLA/VLF.

On 2021-10-22 05:21, Colin Paice wrote:

With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in a
data space. You can now "save" the latest image to disk, and reload that
next time you run. If you save it every day, you will be able to restore
the latest and greatest optimised version.
Without the shared classes, the first use after IPL is slow, the second is
much faster. See "Some of the mysteries of Java shared classes"

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 08:52, Andrew Rowley
wrote:

On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:

Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know

the language and it's been debugged. Schools may teach it but they too
want to make money and look good because they can say it's modern and that
is what they push. Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at the total cost
is doomed to fail.
Don't write off Java too quickly. I previously posted about Software
Drag Racing, which was a competition to test the speed of different
languages.

In the initial test on z/OS, Java was over 3 1/2 times faster than C++.
With some tweaking, C++ ran as fast as Java, but not significantly faster.

The results are written up here:

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackhillsoftware.com%2Fnews%2F2021%2F08%2F10%2Fjava-vs-c-drag-racing-on-z-os%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C51fe13f38fde46feae6b08d9953d67de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637704913299328393%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=P8SGNWwrhdsY4zjIL9a0PTOhnihTknXaYivvWbEaA7M%3Dreserved=0

If you have a zIIP and your general purpose CPs are not full speed, Java
might be the fastest language on your system by a big margin... and it
doesn't count against general purpose CP usage.

Java will compile to machine code where it makes a difference to
performance. Just in Time compilation has some performance advantages:
- it can optimize for the exact hardware
- it can leave out infrequently used code paths and compile them later
if they are actually required, making the machine code smaller and more
efficient
- it can monitor the code execution and recompile the hottest parts with
extra optimizations

IBM also talks a lot about RNI and processor cache... it turns out
garbage collection is good for cache efficiency too. It moves all the
active data into a smaller chunk of memory, which makes better use of
processor cache and is good for your RNI.

If you have well defined, well understood programs that are big CPU
users, it certainly could be worth rewriting them in Java.

(Knowing the language and debugging programs applies to any language...
and I'm not denying you can write large programs and inefficient code in
Java as much as in any other language.)

Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Radoslaw Skorupka


W dniu 22.10.2021 o 03:12, David Crayford pisze:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back 
end. Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, 
investing. And with very high confidence the transactions are secure, 
fast, & always available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe 
could be actually.

Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their 
IT systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect 
from a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app 
usage has pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 
70% of those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank 
balances on their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to 
replicate the data to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for 
writes.


BTDT, but not on Kafka. Indeed, the "cache system" ran up to 40% 
transaction.

Sounds good? Imagine: 40% less workload...
NO
There are light and heavy CICS transactions and cached ones were light.
Proof: some day the cache stopped working due to system failure. During 
rush hours.
Observations from mainframe side: number of transactions per second blew 
up. Average response time ...decreased a little bit.

I was really happy reporting it to management.

However the management was not happy because of that, just because they 
want to switch the mainframe off.  Nevermind, the new transaction system 
has response times 35-140ms (compared to 4-5ms on mainframe).




--
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Lodz, Poland

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Colin Paice

With Java and shared classes, it keeps a copy of the compiled classes in a
data space. You can now "save" the latest image to disk, and reload that
next time you run.  If you save it every day, you  will be able to restore
the latest and greatest optimised version.
Without the shared classes, the first use  after IPL is slow, the second is
much faster.  See "Some of the mysteries of Java shared classes"


On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 08:52, Andrew Rowley 
wrote:

> On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:
> > Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know
> the language and it's been debugged.  Schools may teach it but they too
> want to make money and look good because they can say it's modern and that
> is what they push.  Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at the total cost
> is doomed to fail.
> Don't write off Java too quickly. I previously posted about Software
> Drag Racing, which was a competition to test the speed of different
> languages.
>
> In the initial test on z/OS, Java was over 3 1/2 times faster than C++.
> With some tweaking, C++ ran as fast as Java, but not significantly faster.
>
> The results are written up here:
>
> https://www.blackhillsoftware.com/news/2021/08/10/java-vs-c-drag-racing-on-z-os/
>
> If you have a zIIP and your general purpose CPs are not full speed, Java
> might be the fastest language on your system by a big margin... and it
> doesn't count against general purpose CP usage.
>
> Java will compile to machine code where it makes a difference to
> performance. Just in Time compilation has some performance advantages:
> - it can optimize for the exact hardware
> - it can leave out infrequently used code paths and compile them later
> if they are actually required, making the machine code smaller and more
> efficient
> - it can monitor the code execution and recompile the hottest parts with
> extra optimizations
>
> IBM also talks a lot about RNI and processor cache... it turns out
> garbage collection is good for cache efficiency too. It moves all the
> active data into a smaller chunk of memory, which makes better use of
> processor cache and is good for your RNI.
>
> If you have well defined, well understood programs that are big CPU
> users, it certainly could be worth rewriting them in Java.
>
> (Knowing the language and debugging programs applies to any language...
> and I'm not denying you can write large programs and inefficient code in
> Java as much as in any other language.)
>
> Andrew Rowley
> Black Hill Software
>
> --
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Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 22/10/2021 3:51 pm, Andrew Rowley wrote:

On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:
    Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know 
the language and it's been debugged.  Schools may teach it but they 
too want to make money and look good because they can say it's modern 
and that is what they push.  Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at 
the total cost is doomed to fail.
Don't write off Java too quickly. I previously posted about Software 
Drag Racing, which was a competition to test the speed of different 
languages.


In the initial test on z/OS, Java was over 3 1/2 times faster than 
C++. With some tweaking, C++ ran as fast as Java, but not 
significantly faster.


The results are written up here:
https://www.blackhillsoftware.com/news/2021/08/10/java-vs-c-drag-racing-on-z-os/ 



Disclaimer. I've been writing 90% of my code in the last couple of years 
using Java. I really like it and having a language specification with no 
undefined behavior is awesome. It's also brilliant for multi-threaded 
code and the open source frameworks and libraries are endless. Having 
said that, I wouldn't consider a drag race using a prime number sieve a 
good
indication of the overall performance of Java on z/OS. That's a very 
specific use case and not one that anybody would ever use on the 
mainframe. I've been playing around with IBMs new port of golang and in 
lots of benchmarks it beats the JVM as does C++. Our machines all run 
full-capacity so Java has a huge advantage for sub-capacity customers.





If you have a zIIP and your general purpose CPs are not full speed, 
Java might be the fastest language on your system by a big margin... 
and it doesn't count against general purpose CP usage.


+1M



Java will compile to machine code where it makes a difference to 
performance. Just in Time compilation has some performance advantages:

- it can optimize for the exact hardware
- it can leave out infrequently used code paths and compile them later 
if they are actually required, making the machine code smaller and 
more efficient
- it can monitor the code execution and recompile the hottest parts 
with extra optimizations


IBM also talks a lot about RNI and processor cache... it turns out 
garbage collection is good for cache efficiency too. It moves all the 
active data into a smaller chunk of memory, which makes better use of 
processor cache and is good for your RNI.


That sounds far fetched! Java's stop the world GC cycles are not good 
for performance. Java doesn't support reference types so all of it's 
data even if it's local is on the heap.



If you have well defined, well understood programs that are big CPU 
users, it certainly could be worth rewriting them in Java.


(Knowing the language and debugging programs applies to any 
language... and I'm not denying you can write large programs and 
inefficient code in Java as much as in any other language.)


Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Andrew Rowley


On 22/10/2021 2:46 am, A T & T Management wrote:

    Java, it has to be translated each time it run, provided you know the 
language and it's been debugged.  Schools may teach it but they too want to 
make money and look good because they can say it's modern and that is what they 
push.  Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at the total cost is doomed to 
fail.
Don't write off Java too quickly. I previously posted about Software 
Drag Racing, which was a competition to test the speed of different 
languages.


In the initial test on z/OS, Java was over 3 1/2 times faster than C++. 
With some tweaking, C++ ran as fast as Java, but not significantly faster.


The results are written up here:
https://www.blackhillsoftware.com/news/2021/08/10/java-vs-c-drag-racing-on-z-os/

If you have a zIIP and your general purpose CPs are not full speed, Java 
might be the fastest language on your system by a big margin... and it 
doesn't count against general purpose CP usage.


Java will compile to machine code where it makes a difference to 
performance. Just in Time compilation has some performance advantages:

- it can optimize for the exact hardware
- it can leave out infrequently used code paths and compile them later 
if they are actually required, making the machine code smaller and more 
efficient
- it can monitor the code execution and recompile the hottest parts with 
extra optimizations


IBM also talks a lot about RNI and processor cache... it turns out 
garbage collection is good for cache efficiency too. It moves all the 
active data into a smaller chunk of memory, which makes better use of 
processor cache and is good for your RNI.


If you have well defined, well understood programs that are big CPU 
users, it certainly could be worth rewriting them in Java.


(Knowing the language and debugging programs applies to any language... 
and I'm not denying you can write large programs and inefficient code in 
Java as much as in any other language.)


Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 22/10/2021 11:13 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

Reasonable? People who weren’t aware of 5-9’s, who thought pharmacies weren’t 
open 24 hours a day. Silly you.


Being obnoxious and abusive isn't going to help your cause Bill! 99.999% 
of the folks the frequent this forum are mainframe advocates.  And the 
non-retires are more than aware distributed systems are important 
components of their IT operations. Spouting the same old hackneyed 
nonsense is a waste of time.


BTW, Amazon AWS, MS Azure, VMware etc all offer 99.999% uptime SLAs in 
their cloud products. It's not cheap but nor is any enterprise computing 
platform. I would rather run a mainframe but start-ups are not going to 
do that. Netflix is a $B business and I would be p**sed if I couldn't 
stream movies without and outage ;)






Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 11:07 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

And here I thought you could have a reasonable conversation about an
important topic.  Silly me.

On 10/21/2021 7:59 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you 
told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for my 
next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking, 
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high 
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how 
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J

I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
 wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
the applications.

Rich Smrcina



On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and 
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
 wrote:


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

---

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-22 Thread Andrew Rowley


On 22/10/2021 12:37 am, kekronbekron wrote:

Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' binaries 
made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer some sort of 
instruction-level enhancements.


It's really the other way round... compiled languages like C++ and COBOL 
have to be compiled to support the lowest instruction set. Java can JIT 
compile at runtime for the hardware it is running on.


I think the enhancements in later versions of Java are more to make 
things easier for the programmer than to produce more efficient byte code.


Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Reasonable? People who weren’t aware of 5-9’s, who thought pharmacies weren’t 
open 24 hours a day. Silly you.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 11:07 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

And here I thought you could have a reasonable conversation about an 
important topic.  Silly me.

On 10/21/2021 7:59 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you 
> told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for 
> my next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.
> 
> On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
>> retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
>> and most used platform. And it’s not even close.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>>> Bill J
>>
>> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
>> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
>> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
>> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
>> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
>> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
>> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
>> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
>>
>> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
>> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
>> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
>> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>>
>>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>>> modern face on the applications.
>>>
>>> Rich Smrcina
>>>
>>>
 On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
 <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

 I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
 and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

 Mark Jacobs

 Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

 GPG Public Key - 
 https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

 ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

 On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
  wrote:

> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
>
> Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
>
> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
>
> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
>
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
> ---
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>>>
>>> --
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>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access

Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Tom Brennan

And here I thought you could have a reasonable conversation about an 
important topic.  Silly me.


On 10/21/2021 7:59 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you 
told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for my 
next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking, 
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high 
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how 
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
 wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
the applications.

Rich Smrcina



On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and 
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
 wrote:


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

---

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.



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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you 
told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for my 
next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
> retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
> and most used platform. And it’s not even close.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
> 
> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>> Bill J
> 
> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
> 
> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
> 
> 
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>
>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>> modern face on the applications.
>>
>> Rich Smrcina
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>>
>>> Mark Jacobs
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>>
>>> GPG Public Key - 
>>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

 Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

 ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

 silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

 Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

 ---

 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> send email to

Re: Mainframe Modernization

You guys are the 2021 version of the guy who said the mainframe would be dead 
by 2000.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
> retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
> and most used platform. And it’s not even close.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
> 
> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>> Bill J
> 
> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
> 
> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
> 
> 
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>
>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>> modern face on the applications.
>>
>> Rich Smrcina
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>>
>>> Mark Jacobs
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>>
>>> GPG Public Key - 
>>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

 Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

 ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

 silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

 Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

 ---

 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> .
> 

--

Re: Mainframe Modernization

Lol, you think IBM post false numbers? You’re an idiot.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:35 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 22/10/2021 9:47 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
> https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics


Oh, a mainframe blog that quotes IBM numbers! Thanks Bill.

Don't take my word for it. There's a video and presentation that 
describes the banking architecture I mentioned 
https://www.confluent.io/kafka-summit-sf18/kafka-in-the-enterprise/. 
That's the tip of the iceberg. I can spend all day posting more links to 
other banks with the same event driven architectures. The mainframe is 
critical to their core banking system but it's just a cog in the wheel. 
I'm not anti-mainframe. I work for a mainframe ISV and I hope to retire 
still working on the mainframe.

When you say all banks are you including neobanks and fintechs which 
have exploded in recent years and disrupted the banking industry. I 
moved my banking to a mobile app only neobank ages ago and have never 
looked back. I still get a bank card and pay no transaction fees. I 
enjoy the same
regulations and guarantees that I would get from a traditional retail bank.


> 9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
>    
> |
> |
> |
> |  |    |
>
>    |
>
>    |
> |
> |  |
> 9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
>  
> How important is the mainframe today? One way of answering that question is 
> to take a look at some mainframe statistics about how they are currently used.
>    |  |
>
>    |
>
>    |
>
>    
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>> Bill J
> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
>
> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
>
>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>
>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>> modern face on the applications.
>>
>> Rich Smrcina
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>>
>>> Mark Jacobs
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>>
>>> GPG Public Key - 
>>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

 Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

 ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

 silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

 Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

 ---

 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>

Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Tom Brennan


Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking, 
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high 
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how 
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
 wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
the applications.

Rich Smrcina



On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and 
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
 wrote:


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread David Crayford

On 22/10/2021 9:47 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics

Oh, a mainframe blog that quotes IBM numbers! Thanks Bill.

Don't take my word for it. There's a video and presentation that
describes the banking architecture I mentioned
https://www.confluent.io/kafka-summit-sf18/kafka-in-the-enterprise/.
That's the tip of the iceberg. I can spend all day posting more links to
other banks with the same event driven architectures. The mainframe is
critical to their core banking system but it's just a cog in the wheel.
I'm not anti-mainframe. I work for a mainframe ISV and I hope to retire
still working on the mainframe.

When you say all banks are you including neobanks and fintechs which
have exploded in recent years and disrupted the banking industry. I
moved my banking to a mobile app only neobank ages ago and have never
looked back. I still get a bank card and pay no transaction fees. I
enjoy the same

regulations and guarantees that I would get from a traditional retail bank.

9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely

|
|
| ||

|
|
| |
9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely

How important is the mainframe today? One way of answering that question is to take a look at some mainframe statistics about how they are currently used.

| |

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking,
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J

I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina
wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on
the applications.

Rich Smrcina

On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key -
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot
wrote:

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

---

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I remember when “experts” were touting SAP, Powerbuilder, and others while 
other/same “experts” were saying the mainframe was going to be obsolete by 
2000. 2 decades later, it’s still going strong with no end in sight. Those 
software du jour aren’t likely to replace it.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:51 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I think "Mainframe Modernization" is an umbrella term that can be used 
to describe many different things. That may be new UIs  or application 
modernization such as adding a REST API to a legacy application. IBM are 
doing a great job adding modern languages to z/OS that have features 
traditional mainframe languages like COBOL lack.
I'm currently working on a product that takes monitoring data from 
legacy products and streams it to analytics platforms such as Elastic, 
Splunk or publises metrics for Prometheus/Grafana. Customers already use 
these platforms for their distributed applications which interact with 
the mainframe and it's important for them to see the entire stack using 
modern solutions.

I don't consider 'cloud' or 'devops' to be BS. Devops has transformed 
the way we work. We use Git, Jira, Bitbucket, Jenkins, Artifactory etc. 
When we merge a branch in Git it fires off an automated Jenkins build 
that can package our product and run tests. The old way of doing things 
manually using batch jobs was error prone and tedious.
WRT cloud, I can stand up a personal development z/OS VM using Ansible 
Tower in less than 2 minutes. I can do that from a web UI or by calling 
a REST API. On the distributed side I'm a big fan of orchestration 
technologies such a Kubernetes.  I run a single command to stand up a 
cluster of VMs to deploy a software stack for testing.

On 21/10/2021 6:50 am, David Elliot wrote:
> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
> Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
> Bill J

I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT 
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from 
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has 
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of 
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on 
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data 
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the 
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed 
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization 
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.


>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>  wrote:
>
> That can certainly be part of it.
>
> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
> to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
> access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
> role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
> the applications.
>
> Rich Smrcina
>
>
>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>
>> Mark Jacobs
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>
>> GPG Public Key - 
>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
>>>
>>> Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
>>>
>>> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
>>>
>>> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
>>>
>>> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>>
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics

9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
 
How important is the mainframe today? One way of answering that question is to 
take a look at some mainframe statistics about how they are currently used.
  |   |

  |

  |

  



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
> Bill J

I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT 
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from 
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has 
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of 
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on 
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data 
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the 
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed 
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization 
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.


>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>  wrote:
>
> That can certainly be part of it.
>
> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
> to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
> access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
> role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
> the applications.
>
> Rich Smrcina
>
>
>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>
>> Mark Jacobs
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>
>> GPG Public Key - 
>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
>>>
>>> Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
>>>
>>> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
>>>
>>> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
>>>
>>> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>>
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread David Crayford


On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking, 
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high 
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how 
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT 
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from 
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has 
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of 
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on 
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data 
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.


Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the 
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed 
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization 
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
 wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
the applications.

Rich Smrcina



On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and 
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
 wrote:


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

---

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread David Crayford

I think "Mainframe Modernization" is an umbrella term that can be used 
to describe many different things. That may be new UIs  or application 
modernization such as adding a REST API to a legacy application. IBM are 
doing a great job adding modern languages to z/OS that have features 
traditional mainframe languages like COBOL lack.
I'm currently working on a product that takes monitoring data from 
legacy products and streams it to analytics platforms such as Elastic, 
Splunk or publises metrics for Prometheus/Grafana. Customers already use 
these platforms for their distributed applications which interact with 
the mainframe and it's important for them to see the entire stack using 
modern solutions.


I don't consider 'cloud' or 'devops' to be BS. Devops has transformed 
the way we work. We use Git, Jira, Bitbucket, Jenkins, Artifactory etc. 
When we merge a branch in Git it fires off an automated Jenkins build 
that can package our product and run tests. The old way of doing things 
manually using batch jobs was error prone and tedious.
WRT cloud, I can stand up a personal development z/OS VM using Ansible 
Tower in less than 2 minutes. I can do that from a web UI or by calling 
a REST API. On the distributed side I'm a big fan of orchestration 
technologies such a Kubernetes.  I run a single command to stand up a 
cluster of VMs to deploy a software stack for testing.



On 21/10/2021 6:50 am, David Elliot wrote:

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread allan winston

Ed,

   I stand corrected.  Thanks for the link to https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/,
which I was previously unaware of.

   About a week ago, I was looking for BatchPipes manuals and had only
found the main reference manual.  Now
I have added the other manuals to my collection.

  Allan

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:35 PM Ed Jaffe 
wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:
> > When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
> > BatchPipes is a completely different program product.
>
> Google Schmoogle...
>
> The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in Appendix
> C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390 V2R1 BatchPipeWorks Users Guide:
> https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/SA22-7457-00.pdf
>
>   READY
> pipe
>   BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
>   READY
>
> --
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
>
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
> message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
> email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
> free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system
> into
> which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
> to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
> sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.
>
> --
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread David Spiegel


I would've said Shmegoogle (a takeoff on Shmegheggi)

On 2021-10-21 12:34, Ed Jaffe wrote:

On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:

When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.


Google Schmoogle...

The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in 
Appendix C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390 V2R1 BatchPipeWorks Users Guide: 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fibmdocs.pocnet.net%2FSA22-7457-00.pdfdata=04%7C01%7C%7C351110e1c98f4b0dee9f08d994b0bfc8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637704309218589125%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=sWJ8JQQpDqvyK2Bgpeh0GCX1jaUlRwLYxd32dwXwT8s%3Dreserved=0


 READY
pipe
 BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
 READY



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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:

When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.


Google Schmoogle...

The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in Appendix 
C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390 V2R1 BatchPipeWorks Users Guide: 
https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/SA22-7457-00.pdf


 READY
pipe
 BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
 READY

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread allan winston

When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 11:59 AM Ed Jaffe 
wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 8:18 AM, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote:
> > ... I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked
>
>   READY
> pipe
>   BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
>   READY
>
> --
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
>
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
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> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
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> free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system
> into
> which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 8:18 AM, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote:

... I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked


 READY
pipe
 BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
 READY

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

Google > replacing mainframe with cloud >> ck the companies statements on 
LEGECY  , BUT PRECISELY pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to 
looking at what you have vs going to another platform.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Nash, Jonathan S.
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Some goverment agencies are replacing
their mainframe COBOL with java.
I dont see a payoff. I think this is
driven by contracting companies who
will make money off the conversion and
managers who do not know anything about
programming languages but read somewhere that COBOL is out of date.

Many agencies and companies used to have in house COBOL, JCL, etc training. Now 
they just say they cant find programmers who know COBOL. Most of the people I 
worked with 20 years ago had learned COBOL on the JOB.

Some agencies want to move data bases
from mainframe DB2 to some kind of
cloud data base.

I tried to get Zowe working. No one
is using it here. From what I saw of the interface I like ISPF edit better with 
add in edit macros and REXX EXECs that I learned about on IBM-MAIN. Zowe told 
me it couldnt find java even thought I kept entering the location in what 
looked like the right spot. I gave up. This interface might appeal to kids who 
learn COBOL though.

I used to use smart batch pipes works
in REXX which was nice. I learned about it on IBM-MAIN. Later they shut it off 
and said I was the ONLY one using it in my shop and wanted to know how I leared 
about it.
(IBM-MAIN) I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked so... If IBM is loosing market 
share, perhaps things like smart batch pipes works should be free ?



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Eric D Rossman
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be pushing 
back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing copy, 
but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP(r)
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the
> lies- smoke and mirrors


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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread A T & T Management

   I for one believe in the Right tool for the Right Job!  For general purpose 
programming, Cobol does the job.  Java, it has to be translated each time it 
run, provided you know the language and it's been debugged.  Schools may teach 
it but they too want to make money and look good because they can say it's 
modern and that is what they push.  Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at 
the total cost is doomed to fail.

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:46:27 AM EDT, Eric D Rossman 
 wrote:  

 What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be 
pushing back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing 
copy, but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP®
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the 
> lies- smoke and mirrors

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Nash, Jonathan S.

Some goverment agencies are replacing
their mainframe COBOL with java.
I dont see a payoff. I think this is
driven by contracting companies who 
will make money off the conversion and
managers who do not know anything about
programming languages but read somewhere
that COBOL is out of date. 

Many agencies and companies used to have
in house COBOL, JCL, etc training. Now 
they just say they cant find programmers
who know COBOL. Most of the people I worked
with 20 years ago had learned COBOL on the
JOB. 

Some agencies want to move data bases 
from mainframe DB2 to some kind of
cloud data base.

I tried to get Zowe working. No one
is using it here. From what I saw of the
interface I like ISPF edit better with 
add in edit macros and REXX EXECs that 
I learned about on IBM-MAIN. Zowe told
me it couldnt find java even thought I
kept entering the location in what looked
like the right spot. I gave up. This interface
might appeal to kids who learn COBOL though. 

I used to use smart batch pipes works 
in REXX which was nice. I learned about it
on IBM-MAIN. Later they shut it off and said
I was the ONLY one using it in my shop and
wanted to know how I leared about it. 
(IBM-MAIN) I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked
so... If IBM is loosing market share, perhaps
things like smart batch pipes works should 
be free ?



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Eric D Rossman
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be 
pushing back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing 
copy, but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP(r)
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the 
> lies- smoke and mirrors


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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Eric D Rossman

What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be 
pushing back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing 
copy, but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP®
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the 
> lies- smoke and mirrors


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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Unfortunate but true -- causing more irritation than solving real problems , 
BAD programming (making any platform look bad)

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Tony Thigpen
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Ron,
My opinion is that IBM is just as bad now that they are 'cloud eccentric'. 
(Yes, play on words, not a misspelling.)

Tony Thigpen

Ron Wells wrote on 10/21/21 9:05 AM:
> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the lies-
> smoke and mirrors
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Ron Wells
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Agree-
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. 
> Management sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My 
> last boss only cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and 
> say “see, I saved you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the 
> company $50,000 in lost productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t 
> factor in. Of course, my last boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the 
> mainframe and no desire to learn or take recommendations from his mainframe 
> staff of 5 who combined had almost 200 years of experience.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
> <02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not 
> know or understand TRUE TCO.
> %
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of David Elliot
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
> Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
> exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. 
> As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
> --
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Tony Thigpen


Ron,
My opinion is that IBM is just as bad now that they are 'cloud 
eccentric'. (Yes, play on words, not a misspelling.)


Tony Thigpen

Ron Wells wrote on 10/21/21 9:05 AM:

IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the lies- smoke and 
mirrors

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ron 
Wells
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Agree-

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe Modernization' 
'? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask exactly how they propose to 
modernize their systems all you get is silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't 
even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread kekronbekron

Okay, thanks for clarifying.
Always good to be learning.

But yeah, it's scenarios like that (release-based builds) where automation and 
GitHub-ing things help.
When an actively maintained clone of PARMLIB, etc. are kept in GitHub, code 
reviews are a dream.
Ex: What changed since the last IPL, is just a matter of comparing 2 different 
commits.
Colored and all that.

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, October 21st, 2021 at 7:30 PM, Ed Jaffe 
 wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 6:37 AM, kekronbekron wrote:
>
> > It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed 
> > to actually help with.
> >
> > That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily 
> > maintain different binaries/versions.
> >
> > Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' 
> > binaries made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer 
> > some sort of instruction-level enhancements.
> >
> > Don't know if that makes sense in the way I'm hoping it will... let me know.
>
> Not really. Compiled Java (no matter what level) is just byte code that
>
> is interpreted at execution time or -- if discovered to be "hot" enough
>
> -- Just-In-Time compiled with a  highly-advanced optimizer that targets
>
> the hardware it is running on.
>
> 
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Edward E. Jaffe
>
> 831 Parkview Drive North
>
> El Segundo, CA 90245
>
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
> ---
>
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
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Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 6:37 AM, kekronbekron wrote:

It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed to 
actually help with.
That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily maintain 
different binaries/versions.

Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' binaries 
made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer some sort of 
instruction-level enhancements.

Don't know if that makes sense in the way I'm hoping it will... let me know.


Not really. Compiled Java (no matter what level) is just byte code that 
is interpreted at execution time or -- if discovered to be "hot" enough 
-- Just-In-Time compiled with a  highly-advanced optimizer that targets 
the hardware it is running on.


--
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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread John McKown

All that seems to matter today is This Quarter to most managers. OTOH,
there are the ones who are sold on platform "X" (usually Windows) for all
I.T. functions because a single platform is more efficient to manage. My
employer is convinced that one single software product, Facets, can be the
platform/framework for all software we run. Gonna be fun.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 08:02 Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked.
> Management sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My
> last boss only cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss
> and say “see, I saved you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost
> the company $50,000 in lost productivity, downtime, or other issues he
> didn’t factor in. Of course, my last boss was a Unix guy with zero
> knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn or take recommendations
> from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 200 years of
> experience.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells <
> 02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not
> know or understand TRUE TCO.
> %
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of David Elliot
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
> Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I should not have picked on Java, but you may understand my irritation.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ed 
Jaffe
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

On 10/21/2021 5:39 AM, Ron Wells wrote:
> Like reinventing a wheel and all they do is add complexity , as example 
> Java..another moving target, write something for it, change rel. BANG does 
> not work. Like Windows, if IBM did this, they would have been out of the Boz 
> decades ago.

We love Java on IBM Z and we have not experienced the incompatibility issues 
you're describing. We started back in 2013 on Java 6 and that same code is 
still working perfectly today under Java 8. We target Java
6 in the compile to ensure backward compatibility with the oldest Java 
available for the oldest z/OS operating systems supported by the oldest 
supported releases of our software products (at the moment that is z/OS 2.1). 
We find that approach easier than setting the target individually for every 
release, though that could be done if we needed some feature not available in 
Java 6.

Of course, it's always possible there could be changes required when z/OS Java 
11 finally gets released.. hopefully later this year. If we experience any 
incompatibilities, I will update this thread with our findings.

FWIW, we also have some old COBOL programs from an acquired product that needed 
some minor changes to allow them to compile under COBOL 6.x.

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Edward E. Jaffe
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread kekronbekron

It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed to 
actually help with.
That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily maintain 
different binaries/versions.

Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' binaries 
made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer some sort of 
instruction-level enhancements.

Don't know if that makes sense in the way I'm hoping it will... let me know.

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, October 21st, 2021 at 6:42 PM, Ed Jaffe 
 wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 5:39 AM, Ron Wells wrote:
>
> > Like reinventing a wheel and all they do is add complexity , as example 
> > Java..another moving target, write something for it, change rel. BANG does 
> > not work. Like Windows, if IBM did this, they would have been out of the 
> > Boz decades ago.
>
> We love Java on IBM Z and we have not experienced the incompatibility
>
> issues you're describing. We started back in 2013 on Java 6 and that
>
> same code is still working perfectly today under Java 8. We target Java
>
> 6 in the compile to ensure backward compatibility with the oldest Java
>
> available for the oldest z/OS operating systems supported by the oldest
>
> supported releases of our software products (at the moment that is z/OS
>
> 2.1). We find that approach easier than setting the target individually
>
> for every release, though that could be done if we needed some feature
>
> not available in Java 6.
>
> Of course, it's always possible there could be changes required when
>
> z/OS Java 11 finally gets released.. hopefully later this year. If we
>
> experience any incompatibilities, I will update this thread with our
>
> findings.
>
> FWIW, we also have some old COBOL programs from an acquired product that
>
> needed some minor changes to allow them to compile under COBOL 6.x.
>
> -
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Edward E. Jaffe
>
> 831 Parkview Drive North
>
> El Segundo, CA 90245
>
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
> ---
>
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
>
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
>
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
>
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
>
> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
>
> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
>
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
>
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
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> sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.
>
>

Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 5:39 AM, Ron Wells wrote:

Like reinventing a wheel and all they do is add complexity , as example 
Java..another moving target, write something for it, change rel. BANG does not 
work. Like Windows, if IBM did this, they would have been out of the Boz 
decades ago.


We love Java on IBM Z and we have not experienced the incompatibility 
issues you're describing. We started back in 2013 on Java 6 and that 
same code is still working perfectly today under Java 8. We target Java 
6 in the compile to ensure backward compatibility with the oldest Java 
available for the oldest z/OS operating systems supported by the oldest 
supported releases of our software products (at the moment that is z/OS 
2.1). We find that approach easier than setting the target individually 
for every release, though that could be done if we needed some feature 
not available in Java 6.


Of course, it's always possible there could be changes required when 
z/OS Java 11 finally gets released.. hopefully later this year. If we 
experience any incompatibilities, I will update this thread with our 
findings.


FWIW, we also have some old COBOL programs from an acquired product that 
needed some minor changes to allow them to compile under COBOL 6.x.


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Mainframe Modernization

IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the lies- smoke and 
mirrors

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ron 
Wells
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Agree-

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Agree-

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

--
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

--
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

--
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Re: Mainframe Modernization