Re: Abandoning darcs
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 09:46:27AM +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: A path in NTFS is not allowed to be longer than 255 chars... Path? You mean file name? It's the same on ext2/3 as far as I recall, Just tried it out of curiosity, I got bored after about 6000 characters. and no practical limitation, just Linux fanboy FUD -- Yeah, the biggest problem is Windows users naming directories like Program Files, Last year's review, Deliveries for this and that, which means the 255 limitation actually comes up quickly. Then try to convince them to use short names and no spaces. especially as NTFS uses Unicode, so special characters don't take many bytes as with UTF-8. Actually I think NTFS uses UTF-16 which is about twice as big as UTF-8 (Unicode being the numbering of letters, UTF-8 and UTF-16 being two encodings of Unicode). Y.
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-31, Yves Rutschle i...@rutschle.net wrote: Yeah, the biggest problem is Windows users naming directories like Program Files, Last year's review, Deliveries for this and that, which means the 255 limitation actually comes up quickly. Then try to convince them to use short names and no spaces. Yeah, it sucks.. but it's coming in Linux too. I absolutely fucking hate the Desktop directory that every now and then shows up in ~. IT'S MY HOME DIRECTORY YOU GNOME FUCKTARDS! DON'T PUT ANYTHING VISIBLE THERE! I'S ***MNE***, NOT YOURS, YOU PIECE OF SHIT RETARDS!! GET IT?!?!? especially as NTFS uses Unicode, so special characters don't take many bytes as with UTF-8. Actually I think NTFS uses UTF-16 which is about twice as NTFS: 255 UTF-16 code points = 510 bytes ext2: 255 _bytes_ = less than 255 UTF-8 characters even with latin alphabet. This is what I meant. Of course, even with UTF-16 you get less than 255 glyphs when using combining characters and stuff. -- In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service. By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and the cycle paths have been replaced with polluted motorways.
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-31, Adam Duck adam.ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is possible to _create_ such file names, but you can't use them. Here at WinXP I can create (best under Desktop) dirs close to 255 chars. Actually, I've been succesfully using file names with colons in them in Linux on NTFS (stupid NTFS-3g not failing on such names), and Windows shows them, but you can't access them. Actually, there is a low path length limit not in NTFS but in the some old versions of the _Windows API_ itself. This is probably what the FUD was about. (And if you consider an API originating for 8+3 names -- if this is the case -- 255 is a tolerable limitation for path length.) http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247.aspx In the Windows API (with some exceptions discussed in the following paragraphs), the maximum length for a path is MAX_PATH, which is defined as 260 characters. A local path is structured in the following order: drive letter, colon, backslash, components separated by backslashes, and a terminating null character. For example, the maximum path on drive D is D:\some 256 character path stringNUL where NUL represents the invisible terminating null character for the current system codepage. (The characters are used here for visual clarity and cannot be part of a valid path string.) Note File I/O functions in the Windows API convert / to \ as part of converting the name to an NT-style name, except when using the \\?\ prefix as detailed in the following sections. The Windows API has many functions that also have Unicode versions to permit an extended-length path for a maximum total path length of 32,767 characters -- In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service. By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and the cycle paths have been replaced with polluted motorways.
Re: Abandoning darcs
Yeah, it sucks.. but it's coming in Linux too. I absolutely fucking hate the Desktop directory that every now and then shows up in ~. IT'S MY HOME DIRECTORY YOU GNOME FUCKTARDS! DON'T PUT ANYTHING VISIBLE THERE! I'S ***MNE***, NOT YOURS, YOU PIECE OF SHIT RETARDS!! GET IT?!?!? No, I don't think they get it... Try in a Gnome discussion list, there may be some Gnome developers there. By the way, is ~ really yours? Who created it? :-) Yes, I also hate it, but I have learnt to ignore it with version control. Or better, I use it to store trash. And if I want a directory that I control myself, I create one, it's not so complex.
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-31, Daniel Clemente dcl441-b...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes, I also hate it, but I have learnt to ignore it with version control. Or better, I use it to store trash. And if I want a directory that I control myself, I create one, it's not so complex. But it's not ~, it's ~/my or /my or something long and non-automatic. I suspect that when they realise this home directory cluttering problem, instead of choosing saner names, they'll reinvent the wheel and introduce a Hidden attribute to file systems... in an additional gnome indirection layer, not the kernel. -- [Fashion] is usually a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months. -- Oscar Wilde The computer industry is the only industry that is more fashion-driven than women's fashion. -- RMS
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-28, Klaus Umbach treibholz-...@sozial-inkompetent.de wrote: Ah, OK. So it's a driver and a service. Anyway, it was pretty stable. Maybe I'll try it one day. No time now. Yes, but I can use both my cores and don't have to reserve one for my virus-scanner. From my point of view, Windows is still worse. Both cores.. doing fine with just one. Only really notice the scanner at login, which takes ages, just like the boot too. But with reliable standby/hibernate, it's not necessary to boot often, and you can still shut down the system for the night, etc. e.g. you can't overwrite a file, when it is executed. You can't open a file when another application writes in it (how am a I supposed to read logfiles?). This is indeed a major annoyance that you can't delete a file in use, as on *nix. At least in cygwin they can, however, be renamed out of the way. I've been told this should've been improved in Vista. A path in NTFS is not allowed to be longer than 255 chars... Path? You mean file name? It's the same on ext2/3 as far as I recall, and no practical limitation, just Linux fanboy FUD -- especially as NTFS uses Unicode, so special characters don't take many bytes as with UTF-8. And worst of all: it lacks a package-management. Worst of all: Linux has fragmented centralised package management. All the gazillion distributions doing redundant work have de facto central control over what software you can easily install on that particular distribution. On Windows I can just download software from the ISV, and easily run it. In a sandbox if I want to. And, best of all, nearly all the latest sofware still runs on Windows XP, which is from 2001 (and largely still uninfected by the current blur-fascist IT regime). Try running latest Linux binaries -- or even source, for that matter -- on Linux from 2001. FAIL. It's sick. Linux is outright against independent software vendors, and yet it's Microsoft that gets sued for any feature they add to their OS. -- Be an early adopter! Beat the herd! Choose Windows today!
Re: Abandoning darcs
Tuomo, 2009/3/29 Tuomo Valkonen tuo...@iki.fi: On Windows I can just download software from the ISV, and easily run it. In a sandbox if I want to. I'm curious. Does Windows have that capability built in or do you use some kind of sandboxing third party solution? Rui
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-27, Nicolas Schier sch...@shf.de wrote: have you already decided which SCM you want to switch to? I have noticed you took a look at mercurial... I for myself am very content with it, but I know that your requirements have mostly a little higher level. Probably Mercurial. I've been using it for all new repositories anyway. It mostly sucks compared to darcs, but I don't know anything better that's portable. Stupid GHC, stupid compilers, their bootstrapping, and complicated build systems. -- In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service. By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and local vendors and artisans have had to yield to all under one roof big box hypermarkets.
Re: Abandoning darcs
If only Apple wasn't so blur-fascist, and had 4:3 laptops with a nipple... And non-glossy screens for all configurations, not just for 2000€ ones. Although, I did try the _huge_ touchpad on one of the newer Apple laptops recently, and it was far better than most I've come across: no need to be skating back and forth, actually quite comfortable And the slide with two fingers scrolls whatever content you have is incredibly handy. Luckily this is being copied to more and more computers (netbooks). The rest is mostly candy for demoes, but the zoom and rotate features are cool and handy for the visual stuff. to move the cursor with it. But, still, it's in the way of typing -- can't rest your thumbs anywhere I'm testing this right now. That's not really a problem to keep your thumbs on the trackpad, even with the tap-mode activated. If they move a little, your mouse will flicker (thak God, it disappears when you're typing), but that's not really a big deal. The most painful is Window Management (missing ion so much) and that Spaces multi-desktop thing not well integrated, especially overriding some keyboard bindings (which are customisable with limited choices, all of them not satisfying). You may find yourself disappointed at their quite-non-standard keyboard layout and some other inconsistencies, but they're less painful. Apparently there are some external tools but they tend to break things more than they solve problems. -- Sylvain Abélard J’ai décidé d’être heureux, c’est meilleur pour la santé. -Voltaire
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-27, Sylvain Abélard sylvain.abel...@gmail.com wrote: If only Apple wasn't so blur-fascist, and had 4:3 laptops with a nipple... And non-glossy screens for all configurations, not just for 2000⬠ones. Well, yes, but the situation is almost the same on PCs: all the affordable models have a glossy screen.. and typically crappy keyboards. And the nipple you find only on the el cheapo Thinkpad SL models. The better T-model Thinkpads are just as expensive as Macbook Pros in .fi but come with a shallowscreen and megabezels these days. (The Thinkpads tend to be about 500e cheaper in .de compared to .fi!) I'm testing this right now. That's not really a problem to keep your thumbs on the trackpad, even with the tap-mode activated. If they move a little, your mouse will flicker (thak God, it disappears when you're typing), but that's not really a big deal. Would have to try for an extended period to find out if they'd have managed to make it work tolerably, but so far I've always had to disable to trackpad to be able to use a laptop. The most painful is Window Management (missing ion so much) and that Spaces multi-desktop thing not well integrated, especially overriding some keyboard bindings (which are customisable with limited choices, all of them not satisfying). Sure you can run Ion in X in OS X? I run it in Windows XP under Cygwin/X, and half of my apps/windows there. (In Xterm, but also plan to use gv/xpdf/xdvi for TeXing when it comes time to write something again.) It works comfortably enough, switching between Windows and Ion, after I changed Mod1+Tab to Mod1+Q in Ion, instead of passing -keyhook to X, which disables the Windows key too, which I'd like to work (could then Win+tab on the taskbar). This keeps the Windows window-count tolerable; it couldn't handle the gazillion terminals comfortably without a tabbing terminal emulator or something... but that's just Ion then; I consider it my IDE. You may find yourself disappointed at their quite-non-standard keyboard layout I have to reconfigure the keyboard on any system I plan to actually use for anything, in any case. Done that on Windows too. (Caps lock = control, extra altgr between shift and z, extra altgr+key bindings [1]. No dead keys, they suck.) [1]: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.ion.general/8542 -- In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service. By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and the cycle paths have been replaced with polluted motorways.
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-27 08:19 +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote:
On 2009-03-27, Nicolas Schier sch...@shf.de wrote:
have you already decided which SCM you want to switch to? I have noticed
you took a look at mercurial... I for myself am very content with it,
but I know that your requirements have mostly a little higher level.
Probably Mercurial. I've been using it for all new repositories
anyway. It mostly sucks compared to darcs, but I don't know anything
better that's portable. Stupid GHC, stupid compilers, their
bootstrapping, and complicated build systems.
*sigh* Even in my Windows switch, FOSS crap causes the most trouble.
GHC: fail (= Darcs: fail, lua-xgettext: fail, riot: fail).
Ikiwiki: fail. And Cygwin itself poorly supports locales (i.e., UTF-8
in practise), although with some effort I've managed to make it mostly
work. Ion is one that doesn't support non-ascii... with the settings
that other stuff works with. The problem seems to be, once again, that
X doesn't quite understand the cygwin/libc locales. Cygwin bash is
also _slow_... actually wrote my first _much_ faster (still under cygwin)
python program [1] ever thanks to this.
Windows (XP) itself works quite smoothly.. far better than Modern
Linux, so far.. but doesn't natively provide all the software I'd
like to use. Maybe coLinux would work better than Cygwin, although
it's in principle an ugly solution, and seems to be poorly supported
and difficult to set up... plus you have to deal with all the current
Linux crap [2] that I want to escape from, unless there's some lightweight
coLinux-oriented distro that strips away all that useless crap.
If only Apple wasn't so blur-fascist, and had 4:3 laptops with a
nipple... Although, I did try the _huge_ touchpad on one of the newer
Apple laptops recently, and it was far better than most I've come
across: no need to be skating back and forth, actually quite comfortable
to move the cursor with it. But, still, it's in the way of typing --
can't rest your thumbs anywhere, whereas on the Trackpoint you can
comfortable rest them on the buttons, ready to press -- and you need
to move your hand to actually use it, while the Trackpoint is simply
an integral part of the keyboard.
[1]: A small tool to backup ID3 tags, eyeD3 providing a python library for
reading and copying the raw frames to dummy files. Since copying my
music collection from CDs and DVDs to a hard drive -- it's quite
incredible in how small a package 500G goes in a usb-powered 2.5
disk, compared to the pile of 3.5 disks I had with combined capacity
of just 300G... and these aren't big compared to stuff you find from
the 80's -- and switching from mocp to foobar2000, I've been adding
tags to my collection and downloading cover art, and need to back them
up separately.
[2]: http://iki.fi/tuomov/b/archives/2009/03/13/T16_46_57/
\end{another status report written in a moment of boredom and tiredness}
--
Tuomo
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 26/03/09 21:39, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: On 2009-03-13 12:09 +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: Has anyone any experience of a simple coLinux setup? That wouldn't mess hibernate/standby up? With internal samba? No udev and other crap; Windows handles devices. I used to use it for a while with the default-debian-image, which I upgraded to a recent version. Hibernation works flawlessly, as it is just a Windows-Application as any other. It's much faster as cygwin. I don't know if it can be suspended alone, so you can reboot windows without rebooting your Linux. I even used it to connect to my real XFS-partition of the real Linux besides my Windows, so I could access the data via samba, because there is no XFS-driver for Windows. I used XMing as X-Server, which was quite fast. I don't use it anymore, because Windows drove me crazy, so now I virtualized Windows in VirtualBox for the few applications I need. - Klaus -- BOFH excuse #266: All of the packets are empty.
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-13 12:09 +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: The Ion darcs repositories have been taken offline, and I will switch away from darcs. Reason: no version for the most viable *nix platform of the day, Cygwin. The website will be upgraded when I manage to replace Ikiwiki, which also does not work under Cygwin. This is going to take some time. I, of course, can't even use the usual tools to convert from darcs to another format, because the non-deterministic windows-cygwin hybrid darcs does not even print dates etc. in a standard format, so parsers fail. (No, passing TZ does not work. Darcs shouldn't know about it, as it's not a cygwin program. In truth, though, setting TZ messes everything up. Must be a leak in GHC from depending on cygwin for compilation, although it can not be compiled for cygwin -- which is the reason why there's no cygwin verion of darcs.) ... Has anyone any experience of a simple coLinux setup? That wouldn't mess hibernate/standby up? With internal samba? No udev and other crap; Windows handles devices. -- Tuomo
Re: Abandoning darcs
On 2009-03-26, Tuomo Valkonen tuo...@iki.fi wrote: This is going to take some time. I, of course, can't even use the usual tools to convert from darcs to another format, because the non-deterministic windows-cygwin hybrid darcs does not even print dates etc. in a standard format, so parsers fail. Another big project is writing a non-Haskell (read: Lua) implementation of lua-xgettext. Fuck GHC and its unportability. Help appreciated. -- In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service. By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and local vendors and artisans have had to yield to all under one roof big box hypermarkets.
