KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Phillip Matheson]

EBay Item Number :  271963271721


What about something like this. Its for water, but with plastics these days 
It could be OK, anyone know about plastics?
Phil

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KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Larry Flesner]

>
>EBay Item Number :  271963271721
>What about something like this. Its for water, but with plastics 
>these days It could be OK, anyone know about plastics?
>Phil
+

Phil,

Try that again.  That number came up empty.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Lee Parker]

I used the same but, i am having trouble getting the things to stay calibrated.

  From: Daniel Heath via KRnet 
 To: 'KRnet'  
Cc: Daniel Heath 
 Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 6:31 AM
 Subject: Re: KR> Fuel gauges- senders

I used Princeton Probes, capacitance senders for the wing tanks I built for
the Black Bird, and they worked.



On my Panther, I am using the same float senders at the low point in the
tank, just like is used in all the RVs.? I don't care so much that they are
accurate at full to half full, but when that float starts to move down, I
will know something, to be recorded at a later time.? I will know when my
fuel flow/totalizer tells me how much I have used at that point.



My Panther Building Documentation at? <http://pantherbuilder.org/>
PantherBuilder Web Site



Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

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KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Daniel Heath]

I used Princeton Probes, capacitance senders for the wing tanks I built for
the Black Bird, and they worked.



On my Panther, I am using the same float senders at the low point in the
tank, just like is used in all the RVs.  I don't care so much that they are
accurate at full to half full, but when that float starts to move down, I
will know something, to be recorded at a later time.  I will know when my
fuel flow/totalizer tells me how much I have used at that point.



My Panther Building Documentation at  
PantherBuilder Web Site



Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Phillip Matheson]

No offence taken. Your are totally correct. I have to do that with my currant 
kr2 due to poor senders. But surly some clever Bugger has worked it out. 
Many thanks. 
PHIL. 

Sent from my iPhone

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KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Phillip Matheson]

I am about to make long outter wing tanks for my 2ss and would like to hear 
from flyers that have solved the problem of what senders to use and calibrating 
the long tapering wing tanks to get reasonable accuracy. 
I have spoken to Larry about is extra long senders he used, but he still can't 
get good readings.
I have even considered sight glasses on the inside  the of fuselage. Thanks in 
advance

Phillip Matheson 
Australia 

Sent from my iPhone

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KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Larry Flesner]

At 02:53 PM 9/4/2016, you wrote:
>My plan was to install the sender in a T installed right at the outlet
>of the tank which is how the other guy with the Mustang did it.


Any point in the system below the low point of the tank should work 
if it is more convenient and before any pumps, shutoff valves, etc., 
if it's calibrated to that pressure.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Larry Flesner]

At 02:53 PM 9/4/2016, you wrote:
>I am not sure if it would be linear or not.  Not sure if the pressure
>under so many inches of fuel is the same with a constant area cylinder
>or one that gets bigger or smaller as it goes up.  Been too long since I
>took physics.
+

Been more than 50 years for me but I'd think it is a property of 
hydraulics.  Seems the pressure at any given point at the same level 
in the tank (we want the bottom) would be the same regardless of the 
shape of the tank above it.  But like I said, it's been more than 50 
years and I'll admit, I wasn't an A student.  :-)

Larry Flesner 

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com]

I am not sure if it would be linear or not.  Not sure if the pressure
under so many inches of fuel is the same with a constant area cylinder
or one that gets bigger or smaller as it goes up.  Been too long since I
took physics.

They do sell the sender with or without the fuel computer.  The computer
is used to calibrate the sender at different fuel levels.  I was going
to get it without the computer since my EFIS has calibration built in
for non-linear senders.  You can enter 10 (if I recall correctly) levels
and the system then interpolates between them to give you an accurate
reading over the whole span even without a linear sender.

My plan was to install the sender in a T installed right at the outlet
of the tank which is how the other guy with the Mustang did it.  That is
much easier to do than my other option of installing a capacitative
probe in the tank.  I spoke to Belite and they said a T right in the
fuel outlet is fine.


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Fuel gauges- senders
From: Larry Flesner via KRnet 




One of those sensors mounted in a tee fitting low in the fuselage, 
below or equal to, the bottom of the tank might be a simple and 
accurate fix. I'm thinking "weight" might be linear, even in a 
non-linear tank as long as the sensing intervals are not to short and 
it averages out the reads. I wouldn't want gust loads and G loads in 
turns, etc., to cause the gauge to bounce all over the place.
Hu.

Larry Flesner 


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KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Flesner]

>
>
>And of course, when you're calibrating your fuel dipstick should be 
>calibrated to show fuel in the flying attitude, despite filling (and 
>checking) it with the tail down (for tail draggers).
>+


It's hard to "dip stick" a 7 foot long wing tank. :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Mark Langford]

N56ML's header tank sending unit didn't work until I had about fifty 
hours on the plane...it had stuck to the film that results from the 
vinylester curing in the tank.  Eventually it came lose during some 
rough air and started working, but even then, I continued to use a 
calibrated stick to check fuel each time I flew it, and I do the same 
with 891JF, despite having a totalizer and fuel gauge on it as well.

The reason for this was reinforced when a guy with a C-210 was renting 
my hangar for a while, and lost 40 gallons of 100LL through a leaking 
fuel drain valve.  I walked in the hangar a few days later and there was 
no sign or smell of fuel anywhere.  So you can park it full (which I 
usually do also, to minimize water condensation), and still have an 
empty fuel tank next time you fly.  Something to keep in mind.

And of course, when you're calibrating your fuel dipstick should be 
calibrated to show fuel in the flying attitude, despite filling (and 
checking) it with the tail down (for tail draggers).


Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Larry Flesner]

At 09:11 AM 9/4/2016, you wrote:
>I have been thinking of getting one of these Belite fuel probes for my
>Mustang.  It is basically just a pressure gauge that works based on the
>weight of the fuel.
>http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/uel-probe-system/
+++

One of those sensors mounted in a tee fitting low in the fuselage, 
below or equal to, the bottom of the tank might be a simple and 
accurate fix.  I'm thinking "weight" might be linear, even in a 
non-linear tank as long as the sensing intervals are not to short and 
it averages out the reads.  I wouldn't want gust loads and G loads in 
turns, etc., to cause the gauge to bounce all over the place.  Hu.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Larry Flesner]

At 08:07 AM 9/4/2016, you wrote:
>You set the empty level and the full level and it does the rest.

++

If you are using an electrical gauge and not calibrating software the 
sender won't be linear as the tank is not linear.  The capacitance 
sender is just indicating what length of the sender that is covered 
with fuel.  The thicker tank at the root holds more fuel per foot of 
sender than the narrow tank at the tip.  You calibrate the full and 
empty but in between it is, well, somewhere in between.

Larry Flesner

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Paul Visk]

Phillip wrote: I am about to make long outter wing tanks for my 2ss and would 
like to hear from flyers that have solved the problem of what senders to use 
and calibrating the long tapering wing tanks to get reasonable 
accuracy.;x
?I'm using?PRINCETON CAPACITANCE FUEL PROBES. You set the empty level and the 
full level and it does the rest. When you other them from Aircraft Spruce they 
will ask you what length you want. The longer they are the more accurate they 
are.?

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/princefuelprobes.php


Paul Visk?Belleville IL ?618 406 4705
Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4

 Original message 
From: Phillip Matheson via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 09/04/2016  2:27 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: Phillip Matheson  
Subject: KR> Fuel gauges- senders 

I am about to make long outter wing tanks for my 2ss and would like to hear 
from flyers that have solved the problem of what senders to use and calibrating 
the long tapering wing tanks to get reasonable accuracy. 
I have spoken to Larry about is extra long senders he used, but he still can't 
get good readings.
I have even considered sight glasses on the inside? the of fuselage. Thanks in 
advance

Phillip Matheson 
Australia 

Sent from my iPhone

> 
> 
>?

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Larry Flesner]

At 02:49 AM 9/4/2016, you wrote:
> I always do a visual check. Top off before each flight. Then time the
>fuel usage by engine run time.


Topping off and timing is accurate but I prefer not to take off with 
full fuel (25 gallon) on every flight, especially a local ride.  My 
long tapered tanks in the outer wings don't lend themselves to good 
senders.  If I can see the fuel on the bottom of the tank at the fill 
hole then I have approximately 7.5 gallon in that tank and I time from there.

My suggestion if you want an electrical gauge is to put a stand pipe 
just behind the seat with a capacitance sender that equals the total 
height of the fuel in the tank.  Even then it won't be linear as the 
tank gets thinner outboard.  Site gauges would be more accurate as 
they could be marked in a more accurate scale.  They would have to be 
located just forward of the front spar to be visible and accurate.

Gauges in wing tanks that are odd shaped and elevated at the tip are 
seldom ideal.  Even the RV10 with floats in the wing will top out at 
22 gallon in a 30 gallon tank.  At that point the SkyView just says 
22+ gallons.  The requirement in the USA is that they be accurate at EMPTY.

If you are using instrumentation such as a SkyView that the sender is 
feeding from a standpipe or a long probe in the tank,  it may be 
possible to calibrate accurately but just sending to an electrical 
gauge that you simply calibrate for full and empty, will not be linear.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[brian.kraut at eamanufacturing.com]

I have been thinking of getting one of these Belite fuel probes for my
Mustang.  It is basically just a pressure gauge that works based on the
weight of the fuel. 
http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/uel-probe-system/

I currently have a float sensor in my plane and it is not very
consistent.  I have recalibrated it on my GRT EFIS twice.  I also have a
dead accurate fuel flow system that I rely on, but I don't like pressing
on with my known accurate fuel totalizer telling me all is good and my
known inaccurate fuel level sensor telling me it is not.

One of the other Mustang guys tried the Belite and said it is very
accurate, but it reads higher if you have a pressurized vent tube on the
tank.  I have not decided yet that I want to cut off the bent forward
part of the tube on my fuel vent and add the Belite sensor or not yet. 
I kind of like heaving a positive pressure on the vent line.


 Original Message 
Subject: KR> Fuel gauges- senders
From: Phillip Matheson via KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sun, September 04, 2016 12:27 am
To: KRnet 
Cc: Phillip Matheson 

I am about to make long outter wing tanks for my 2ss and would like to
hear from flyers that have solved the problem of what senders to use and
calibrating the long tapering wing tanks to get reasonable accuracy. 
I have spoken to Larry about is extra long senders he used, but he still
can't get good readings.
I have even considered sight glasses on the inside the of fuselage.
Thanks in advance

Phillip Matheson 
Australia 

Sent from my iPhone

> 
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KR> Fuel gauges- senders

[Doran Jaffas]

This is a simple answer so please don't take offense.
I always do a visual check. Top off before each flight. Then time the
fuel usage by engine run time.
I am flying a Tri Pacer that I use that system with and have a stock KR
2 that should be ready in a few months that I will also do that with. There
is a visual guage in the KR 2 but will still go by engine run time.
Not very sophisticated I know but safe.
 Good Luck.
On Sep 4, 2016 3:28 AM, "Phillip Matheson via KRnet" 
wrote:

> I am about to make long outter wing tanks for my 2ss and would like to
> hear from flyers that have solved the problem of what senders to use and
> calibrating the long tapering wing tanks to get reasonable accuracy.
> I have spoken to Larry about is extra long senders he used, but he still
> can't get good readings.
> I have even considered sight glasses on the inside  the of fuselage.
> Thanks in advance
>
> Phillip Matheson
> Australia
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> >
>
>
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