[lace] OT, Tatted fern etc.
While shopping for some garden flowers, I came across a "Tatted Fern." Very cute! About 12 inch fronds with 1/3 inch flat half circles (with ruffled outer edges) alternating up the "stems." No botanical name, but was not a Maidenhair (Adiantum). Anyway, a must have for all us gardening tatters :-) Also, if anyone knows if Rosemary's "Fantasy Flowers" is available through a US supplier, could you let me know? Thanks, April Bobbin Art - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Fantasy Flowers
Janet - thank you for this suggestion. I actually emailed Karolina privately yesterday afternoon making the same suggestion. I am not bothering to reply to her aggressive private message back - suffice to say it was just more personal attacks, both on Rosemary and myself. Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia) --- JANET ANDERSON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > May I make the suggestion that this topic be put on hold (not dropped but put > on hold) until the lady in question has returned from her holiday and can > speak to the issue herself. I think it is not fair to continue lobbing > accusations of plagerism any further when she is not here to speak to the > issue. I thought the original question was a fair one - has any one noticed > these designs seem similar - but now it seems to be morphing into a direct > attack on the designer in question. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace magazine
C'mon, Shirley, be nice and share some of it!!! Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia) --- Tregellas Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > Regards, > Shirley - Adelaide, Sth. Aust. where we're actually have colder weather > and some RAIN, hoorary Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: [lace] couronne rings
Hello Jane and everyone Thank you for sharing your 'ring' tips Jane - and congratulations with your new found skill of ring-making ;) I am impressed because it is the same technique, though different working surface for making the "pearls" or "purls" to finish a Rosaline perlee piece - and further impressed because the diagrams in Barley's book will be a useful reference next time I get an inkling to try a Rosaline motif. Using the ring stick is an improvement for me, on the R.p. method of stitching them on paper. The latter has its advantages over the former, for piecework, but for the occasional hobbyist, the ring stick would be more fun (another tool to acquire, yay!) - and I wager it would produce evenly worked rings as opposed to my attempts at working a number of them (unevenly) around basting thread tacked to paper. Thanks so much for sharing. We shall call you The Lady of the Rings (like Lord of the Rings? get it? - little joke, very little) bye for now Bev in Sooke BC (west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] lace-exhibition and new website
If you go to http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/tr and type the website in the section where it says "Translate a web page" and then click which language from and to which in this case is French to English you will be able to read it all in English (mostly). You can do this for any foreign website providing they have the translation. (They dont translate Danish so I wasn't able to read about the wedding.) Unfortunately you will still be none the wiser as it translates "The strange instrument of Domenica." but at least you will be able to read the other text contained within the website. I too would be interested in what it is as it sparked my curiosty when I saw it. The lace on the site is very beautiful. I especially like the musical instruments and I'm not musical. Jane Portchester UK Lorri wrote:> > > Can you tell us what the lacer is doing in the picture: > "L'etrange instrument de Dominique" in the section 'Dentellieres'. > > The site is beautiful, and very well done. I wish I could read the > captions. > > Lorri > > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] eBay tea towels
Gentle Spiders, I found some pretty tea towels listed on eBay that I thought might be of interest to some of you. The towels are listed under "lacemaking tea towels". The number is: 8106577521 Elizabeth MacPherson - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] back again for a while
Dear lacemakers, Hi, again i desided to join your list for a while. How are you all doing. Buisy as usual i guess. I have a very interresting projekt to go for. I am going to reproduce the dress of a painting by Carl Gustav Pilo at the mannorhouse museum Gammel Estrup. They have a doubble portrait of Count Jørgen Scheel and his second wife Charlotte Louise Scheel von Plessen. It is her dress that i am going to make a reproduktion of. But unfortunately i cant do it as close as the portrait. The dress is made of Spitalfields Silk Brocade, wich cant be found today, so i have to make it in plain grey taffeta. Actually it is rather a lucky job to get, because it was this dress that got me into making costumes. It took my heart, and i said, when i first saw it: You must learn to make such a dress one day. The day has finally come.. I have not had permission to post the portrait wich is belonging to Frederiksborg Castle yeat, but the manager of the museum is trying to let me have permission for that. If you would like to read and watch about this projekt, you can go here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrupengelsk.htm I have also started a new hobby with silk ribbon embroidery, if you go to my webpage, you will find some links there, also from a springparty i was attending with the 18th. century society Gustavs Skål. I guess that many of you are going to the Tønderfestival this year... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Rosemary and Jana
Hi Everyone, Just to end this crazy discussion about the fantasy flowers. Jana Novak is a very good friend of mine and I have therefore always stayed out of any discussion concerning her or her products and publications, because of the list rules about promoting and advertising. However, this situation really calls for an explanation. I spoke with Jana today about Rosemary's book. She knows Rosemary well, has met her on several occasions and respects her work, and after looking at Rosemary's homepage, Jana has no suspicions whatsoever that Rosemary has copied her work. Jana's first book was published in 1985 and she met Rosemary for the first time in Australia, about 10 years later, when Rosemary showed her some of her flowers and Jana actually suggested to her that she ought to publish her work. That also rules out the opposite situation of Jana copying Rosemary. In the near future, Jana will be publishing a new book which is intended to inspire and encourage lacemakers to use her basic models and expand upon them to create a new design. She actually states in her introduction that she looks forward to seeing the results in lace circles! She asked me to say that in her workshops and books she tries to develop the hidden artist in us all, and she is more than delighted when the result is even better than her own! Also as Jana wisely remarked , " Basic shapes and the construction of flowers are inspiration for us all" I sincerely hope that this doesn't offend anyone, as is often the case on this list with the written word. It is only sent with the kindest of intentions. Best wishes and keep bobbin' along from Avril -- And on the 8th day, God created golf courses and lacemakers Avril Bayne Denmark - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] grids
Actually, as I learnt last summer when I made my first Beds designs under Barbara Underwood's watchful eye, Beds uses the same grid as Torchon. When she told me that I was absolutely gob-smacked (as the Brits say). But it is true - you can lay a 45 degree grid over any Beds pattern and see for yourself. On Thursday, May 20, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Lorelei Halley wrote: All straight laces, except perhaps Bedfordshire, are designed on a grid. Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] grids
Weronika I have seen torchon on a grid other than the standard diamond. In DMC's La Dentelle aux Fuseaux (all torchon) there is a pattern with a flattened grid. But yes, torchon is always designed on a grid. That is done to keep all the threads in the proper relation to each other. All straight laces, except perhaps Bedfordshire, are designed on a grid. The term "free lace" or "part lace" (both interchangeable terms) doesn't really have to do with whether the lace was designed on a grid, or whether it is geometric. It means that the solid parts, usually flowers and leaf shapes, are made separately, and the ground is worked afterwards. Or that the design motifs are connected where ever convenient with a crochet hook or needlepin. In free lace your working direction changes constantly, you may have many discrete motifs which each require being hung in and ended separately. One is constantly doing sewings to connect various parts. There is a straight lace called "free hand lace", which used to be called "Swedish pinless lace", also known as "Scania lace". This type has pins only on the outside and the interior of the lace is kept in shape by careful tension control. But because all the connection between parts are done as the lace is being made, it is still a continuous or straight lace. Weronika, once you've learned torchon and tape lace, and perhaps Cluny, you will understand what "free lace" means. You might try studying the "identification" page of my website, where I have the photos divided by structural classes: straight laces first, then free laces. Study the photos in their enlarged sizes carefully and try to see the direction that the threads move in, especially in the cloth stitch sections. In straight lace the clothwork is always vertical and horizontal. In free laces the clothwork curves around and changes direction. http://www.loreleihalley.com/identification.htm Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Are the flowers wired??
Subject: Re: [lace] Rosemarie Shephard > Those flowers are very pretty. Do you use some kind of wire in the outer > part of them or are they starched? > Ann-Marie > http://community.webshots.com/user/annma1 > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] admin: plagiarism discussion
Sorry to post so many admin messages in such a short space of time but I recommend that the discussion of plagiarism be taken off-line. Trying to argue on a list about whether someone did or didn't plagiarize is a lot like trying to convert someone to your political or religious views. It consumes a lot of time, energy, and bandwidth, raises tempers and, at the end of the day, we're no further ahead than we were when we started and we've possibly damaged the reputation of someone who didn't deserve it. Better to use the energy for vacuuming the livingroom or making lace. If you really want to continue the discussion, please do it via private e-mail. Words can hurt. Imagine how you'd feel if you unsubbed from the list to take a vacation and came back to find a lively discussion about your alleged wrongdoing in the archives. Thanks for your cooperation. Best wishes, Avital - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Fantasy Flowers
May I make the suggestion that this topic be put on hold (not dropped but put on hold) until the lady in question has returned from her holiday and can speak to the issue herself. I think it is not fair to continue lobbing accusations of plagerism any further when she is not here to speak to the issue. I thought the original question was a fair one - has any one noticed these designs seem similar - but now it seems to be morphing into a direct attack on the designer in question. Karolina, I appreciate your willingness to try and defend the original work of Ms. Novack but at this point I do not think you are accomplishing that goal. Protecting copyright and intellectual property is an admirable goal for us all but it has been pointed out that there are explanations other than sheer plagerism for the similarities you see in the works. If you feel there is a real problem I would wait and see what Rosemary has to say and if you still have an issue then take it to Ms Novak to deal with herself. If she then feels there is a problem she and her publisher are the appropriate ones to deal with it. I apologise for jumping in here as a newbie but I think this discussion is going no where rather rapidly. We should also remember that e-mail is considered correspondance in law and actionable comments made on a list like this could lead to real legal action. Just a caution to us all another group I belong to ran into this issue not long ago and it came very close to libel/slander action being taken. Janet and her 2 cents worth Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada - Original Message - From: Karolina Jeffers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:06 am Subject: [lace] Re: Fantasy Flowers > That isn't how I read the posts on this subject at all. What they > do all > seem to be saying is that it is possible for two people to > independentlycome up with very similar ideas.! > > My teaching notes are dated when I do them, ie when I need > handouts for a > class. This doesn't necessarily mean that the design or technique > theyrefer to is brand new to me, just that it's the first time I > want to run a a > workshop > on them and turn them into the public arena. Often the ideas and > prototypeshave been "work in progress" for a long time. The same > could apply to > Rosemary's notes dated late 80's. It is no evidence that she was > influencedby Novak. > > As my copy of the book has not arrived yet, I am unable to compare the > prickings with the ones designed by Jana Novak, and I am unclear > from your > comment " I had a look at Rosemary's web site and her new book" > whether you > have > actually seen the book, or just the write up and pictures. > > "What I really find fascinating is that no one has taken the time > to compare > the two books and make a constructive comment" As it is a new > book not many > of us will have had the opportunity to make this comparison yet > but even if > I > had been able to, probably the only comments I could make are on > the lines > of "Yes, there are notable similarities" or "No, I think the > similaritiesare > minor". Either way, it would be fairly subjective and would > throw no > further light on the influences, conscious or subconscious, behind > Rosemary's design > ideas. > > "I do not make any accusations, I simply state a fact." > Unfortunately, to > me at least, it did sound accusing. Unless you know for sure that > Rosemarywas > aware of and influenced by Novak's work then what you are implying > is not > stating a fact. The only fact is that there are similarities, > your post > seemed to take it much further. > > Jacquie > > > "If Rosemary made her first flowers in the late 70s then this predates > the Novak ones by a considerable margin. But no-one would think that > plagiarism has taken place the other way round, would they!<<<" > > Dear All, > > I am overwhelmed by the response my two emails caused. Someone is > talkingabout reversed plagiarism. And some else that this dirty > business should be > put to sleep. > > The second statement speaks for its self. Now to the issue of > plagiarism - > Lets look at Jana Novak's track record - she comes from Moravia, > being part > of Czech Republic where modern lace design is part of curiculum at the > college she attended and trained as Graphic Artist. Further in Czech > Republic lace > and lace design is being taught at some art colleges and Charles IV > University by no other than > Milca Eremiasova and other prominent lacemakers/teachers/designers. > Since late fifties until communism ended there were co-operatives > whereartistic lace design and lace making was of the prime > importance. Many > people in the world admired the lace that came out of > Czechoslovakia as the > country was known than, now Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. > They admired > the artistic style and the different and unique approach. > > When I attended Rosemar
[lace] Rosemarie Shephard
Hello Spiders On a second carefull look I could find the heartflower of Rosemary in Jana Novak's book. It was further down than the flowers. But then again, a heart shape is a very universal symbol, both hearts have different slopes, different numbers of pins and different braids. The method of making the hearts 3D I've seen applied to other shapes and non-lace (e.g. paper) crafts. You can't forbid that method for an original design, as you can't forbid any half-stitch braid. But I still can't find a flower in Jana Novak's book that resembels the "five petals" more than any other of the flowers. I'd still bet on the Morphic Resonance. Jo Falkink - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Lace magazine
Hi Spiders >Liz wrote: This is mainly for the Oz spiders - has anyone in Australia, other >than Helene, received their UK Lace magazine yet? I am still watching out for >the Postie to deliver mine. My UK Lace magazine arrived on Tuesday so hopefully you've now got yours Liz. Regards, Shirley - Adelaide, Sth. Aust. where we're actually have colder weather and some RAIN, hoorary - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: duplication of ideas (not short)
Hello lacefriends, I'm not able to comment on all this opinions, as I'm not familiar with either of this books. But after looking up the site Lorelei mentioned I must say all this flowers look nice and individuell and in a way like real. And if you design a five petal flower it looks like in nature and I am sure all of them look a little bit similar. I agree totaly with what Jacqui mentioned, that very often two people at two different point on earth had the absolut equal idea at the same moment. In earlier time there were several ugly quarrels between scientist (chemists, physics) about this proplem. Also about who was the first flying for the first time from A to B and other such things. Sometimes the whole laceworld is speaking about one thing and several people are influenced of it and made a design and what wonder this designs are in a way the same. That is ome of the reasons I will not design new patterns in the classical lace-sorts. I can never be sure is it from my brain or was it stored there from somewhere I have seen it. And what it is more I want to give lace a face who is the face of our time. And if I would work all this wonderful old patterns I like I must become much older than Methusalem. Greetings from sunny but stormy and cold Hamburg in Germany Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Lace magazine
Liz wrote: This is mainly for the Oz spiders - has anyone in Australia, other than Helene, received their UK Lace magazine yet? I am still watching out for the Postie to deliver mine. Liz I'm not in Oz but my lace magazine just showed up today here in Guam. I seem to get mine around the same time you guys down under do. Dona in Asan, Guam - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: lFantasy Flowers
On 20 May 2004, at 01:02, Weronika Patena wrote: Is Torchon really always designed on a square grid? Or any grid? And why? If it was designed without a grid, would it be a free lace too? Torchon is normally designed on a square grid although with the use of the computer as a design tool the square grid is sometimes bent and stretched into all sorts of shapes. Have a look at my website for a few examples. However, in conventional torchon the square grid is what helps to make the regular geometric feaures which make torchon what it is, and without a grid of some sort it would be impossible to get an accurate pricking with evenly spaced pinholes. Free lace is a rather vague term - usually taken to mean a lace which is designed around freely drawn shapes - Honiton, Milanese etc - cannot by the nature of the design be drawn with a grid, other than for areas of fillings. Pinholes are placed as and where the pattern requires them. On the other hand, Danish Freehand lace, which is worked without a pricking, just a striped pillow cover, has a lot in common with torchon and the designs are regular and geometric. Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[no subject]
From: "Jean Nathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Elaine's virus email Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:14:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600. I'm very concerned at all the email address that were included in Elaine's message headed "lace-digest V2004 #154". Many of these people might only want their addresses know to selected people. I know my address is on the web in the archives, but I don't want it included in forwarded emails to people and organisations I have no connection with. DH gets this happen from his over 50s interest groups, as well as replies to a message to a message to a message . The reason given is because the writers say they don't know how to remove the previous bits, including the addresses of everyone the message has been sent to - one of the problems with people buying computers but not having any lessons in how to use them properly. I'm sure this isn't the case with Elaine, but if you are one of those who don't know how to include just the relevant part of a message and nothing else, then please ask Avital or one of the many others of us who know how to do it. Computer use problems can be solved on Chat. Jean in Poole - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[no subject]
From: "Jean Nathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Elaine's virus email Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:14:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600. I'm very concerned at all the email address that were included in Elaine's message headed "lace-digest V2004 #154". Many of these people might only want their addresses know to selected people. I know my address is on the web in the archives, but I don't want it included in forwarded emails to people and organisations I have no connection with. DH gets this happen from his over 50s interest groups, as well as replies to a message to a message to a message . The reason given is because the writers say they don't know how to remove the previous bits, including the addresses of everyone the message has been sent to - one of the problems with people buying computers but not having any lessons in how to use them properly. I'm sure this isn't the case with Elaine, but if you are one of those who don't know how to include just the relevant part of a message and nothing else, then please ask Avital or one of the many others of us who know how to do it. Computer use problems can be solved on Chat. Jean in Poole - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] V7A Museum book and others
Yes, Liz, Booksellers in Australia are bound by law to buy from England for some publishers, and from the US for others (haven't got the list of which is which) . This is an arrangement made by the publishers, mostly to ensure that no-one "poaches" on their preserves (shades of colonialism!!. Heavy fines are incurred if the rule is broken, and it also applies to libraries. For instance, we are not allowed to buy the American copy of the V&A book if someone offers it to us, because Australia is part of England's hunting grounds!! This means that sometimes, bestsellers are published by the "wrong" country first, and we have to wait until the other country decides to publish before we can buy for our customers!I'm afraid it is part of the US protectionist policy, and I think it stinks, but so far, the publishers are still quite happy with it and don't want to change it. Individuals can do what they please, thank heaven, but only if they order direct from the country publishing. They are not allowed to order through a bookseller. Good luck with your order...I hope you'll bring it to the lace meeting to gloat over us when you receive it :-) Helene, the froggy from Melbourne Liz Ligeti wrote: >I have ordered "Lace from the V & A Museum" from Amazon in the US. DH has >offered to buy it for my birthday. Instead of the(Aussie) $110 for it >through the local bookseller, I can get it posted to me for $62 (approx - >on yesterday's currency exchange). I think the bookseller here gets their >books from the UK, and our $ is so depressed against the £. I like to buy >locally, but the difference is just too much, this time. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] lace-exhibition and new website
Thanks to everyone who sent me kind comments on our new website. Lorri and Tamara asked what the lacer is doing in the picture "l'étrange instrument de Dominique". Well, for the exhibition, several lacers of our group worked on the theme of music. Dominique has a son who is playing saxophone and she first made a very classic "flat" saxophone in lace but she wanted to make one in three dimensions. As she is very inventive she modeled a piece of styrofoam in the form of a saxophone and she works directly on this form prikking her pins in it. She also made an assembling to maintain it. On the picture you see her working. When the lace will be finished, it 'll be stiffened and she'll remove the styrofoam by "crumbling" it. The keys and other ornaments of the instrument will be made aside and fixed on it later. That's what she explained to us... I'm very curious to see the final result ! Tamara also asked : >1) Is the "hotel" as it is in English (a place where paying guests >stay), or an equivalent of our "City Hall" (l'Hotel de Ville - the >house of the town?) >2) In either case, are you (all of you) constantly pestered to *sell* >your lace? And, if you are, *do* you? The "Hôtel de Ville" actually is the equivalent of your "City Hall" and yes, whe are also constantly pestered to sell our lace but we don't, we only offer it to family or friends on special occasions like anniversaries, weddings, births, ... Liduina from a sunny Ath in Belgium www.athdentelle.be - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Fantasy Flowers
That isn't how I read the posts on this subject at all. What they do all seem to be saying is that it is possible for two people to independently come up with very similar ideas.! My teaching notes are dated when I do them, ie when I need handouts for a class. This doesn't necessarily mean that the design or technique they refer to is brand new to me, just that it's the first time I want to run a a workshop on them and turn them into the public arena. Often the ideas and prototypes have been "work in progress" for a long time. The same could apply to Rosemary's notes dated late 80's. It is no evidence that she was influenced by Novak. As my copy of the book has not arrived yet, I am unable to compare the prickings with the ones designed by Jana Novak, and I am unclear from your comment " I had a look at Rosemary's web site and her new book" whether you have actually seen the book, or just the write up and pictures. "What I really find fascinating is that no one has taken the time to compare the two books and make a constructive comment" As it is a new book not many of us will have had the opportunity to make this comparison yet but even if I had been able to, probably the only comments I could make are on the lines of "Yes, there are notable similarities" or "No, I think the similarities are minor". Either way, it would be fairly subjective and would throw no further light on the influences, conscious or subconscious, behind Rosemary's design ideas. "I do not make any accusations, I simply state a fact." Unfortunately, to me at least, it did sound accusing. Unless you know for sure that Rosemary was aware of and influenced by Novak's work then what you are implying is not stating a fact. The only fact is that there are similarities, your post seemed to take it much further. Jacquie "If Rosemary made her first flowers in the late 70s then this predates the Novak ones by a considerable margin. But no-one would think that plagiarism has taken place the other way round, would they!<<<" Dear All, I am overwhelmed by the response my two emails caused. Someone is talking about reversed plagiarism. And some else that this dirty business should be put to sleep. The second statement speaks for its self. Now to the issue of plagiarism - Lets look at Jana Novak's track record - she comes from Moravia, being part of Czech Republic where modern lace design is part of curiculum at the college she attended and trained as Graphic Artist. Further in Czech Republic lace and lace design is being taught at some art colleges and Charles IV University by no other than Milca Eremiasova and other prominent lacemakers/teachers/designers. Since late fifties until communism ended there were co-operatives where artistic lace design and lace making was of the prime importance. Many people in the world admired the lace that came out of Czechoslovakia as the country was known than, now Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. They admired the artistic style and the different and unique approach. When I attended Rosemary's workshop she talked about the influences and her admiration towards these designers and lacemakers and their artistic attributes to the world of lace. She also admired the works by Jana Novak, she made no secret of that. I subscribe to the Danish magazine The Knipplebrevet where I can see the big influence Jana has on people's designs in Denmark . Since she's lived in Denmark she published many books with her own designs on many different subjects using many different techniques. The book with title "Fri Knipling" was one of her first publicashions and is now out of print - sadly. The Kantklosse in Vrije Vorm is a different publication - I have to take a punt at the translation but would translate it as Bobbin lace in Free form. She also published books which are works from many different designers. Designing and publishing books is her primary business as well as providing lacemakers with the necessary lacemaking supplies. She is a professional artist and designer. I don't know if Jana knew of Rosemary but I do know that Rosemary knows of Jana. The only book Rosemary previously published was "An Introducction to Bobbin Lacemaking" where the content is primarily Torchon. I have not seen any other book Rosemary published in the late seventies on "Fantasy Flowers". How could Jana plagiarise Rosemary's flowers if she never seen them? Jana lives in Denmark and Rosemary lives in Australia. Whilst Torchon patterns are easily reproduced independently it is a different story in a free form design. Every artist has his/her own artistic approach and is recognisable by their style. In the class of design I attended no two people designed the same piece. We are all unique human beings. Copyright does not protect the designers unless they can enforce the copyright through courts, and who has the money to do that? So it is up to us to do the right thing and abide by the copyright law. I am not saying that one ca
