Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan: I really can't remember all of it, but the one part I do remember was the part where Kardashian and AC were looking out the window and saw Simpson go into Kardashian's garage get the golf bag out, take something out of the golf bag, return the golf bag to the garage, and walk down the road with his arms full of something and a shovel. He also said something about blood being on a light switch in the maids room and on a wire behind Kato's room. There was also a break in the hedge behind Katos room where it looked like someone came through. He also said that they had figured out how he got blood all over the Bronco, and the reason he didn't leave any bloody footprints on the carpet in his house was simply because he took his shoes off. There was so much more but I can't remember all of it now. Petrocelli's book hits the stores Tuesday, and he will be on Dateline that night. BBG Sue Hello Sue, Refresh my memory, please. What did Steve say? Maybe this came up when I was working and had no time to read the list posts. Joan -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan: Simpson made the statement a while back that Sydney's lap top was broken and that he didn't have the money to get it fixed. I would be willing to bet just about anything that she has read everything that is on the web about the murders, and has monitored the news groups about it too. There is no way that a kid is going to have a computer, questions in her mind about the death of her mother, questions about her father being in jail, and not look out there to get answers. I would even bet she has seen the crime scene photos that are out there. And Justin might have too. And never mind the fact that the library has all these books about it, and the tabs in the stores. She knows what happened, and I would be willing to bet she has asked him. If not then it would only be because, IMO, she was too scared of him to ask. Simpson lies, and then he lies to cover his lies. Sue Hello Kathy, I haven't read anything about the children, but I'm sure you are right. It doesn't seem credible that the children would never ask questions about their mother's death. The must have seen and heard much media that concerned them, especially The older, Sidney. Even classmates must have raised questions that they would discuss with Simpson. Joan -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: I would give anything to have our front page have this kind of earth shattering news. I really would. Granted it would be kinda boring, but at least you can go to the store after dark without being car jacked. You might have a pizza thrown at you but no bullets. :) If you hear anything let me know though. BG Sue Hi Sue Really difficult to get news about trials around here. Here is an example of the news items in our Sunday paper: Southern MN makes a great place to be in the golf business; Leighton blames House; City seeking to end permit violations. And, lucky us, we are getting a new pizza place. Really earth shattering news, right. Don't know the details on the woman in Iowa--just caught a news blurp on the tv. Oh well, at least the crime rate is low here. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: Yes, please let me know what is going on. Sometimes these little trials can turn out to be more interesting than the big ones. :) How did the woman kill the baby, and why? Sue Hi Sue It is not a thriller, so won't make national news : ). From what I gather, two young adult males went over to another house and went in and killed another male. It has not been a headliner so far until they picked the jury last week. Will see if they have anything on it from now on and let you know more details. I think the two stole some guns, and used one of them in killing the guy. The other case that is coming up is a northern Iowa woman who is on trial for murdering her infant I believe. Haven't kept up with stuff--it is mid-term and I finally got the quarterly sent off--now it is only the testbank deadline that will be driving me. I feel like Joan must feel at tax time vbg. jackief -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Attachment Disorder was LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: They had some kind of doctor on, I think it was Oprah, concerning these children a while back. He was explaining a therapy where the parent just holds the child and doesn't let go until the child wears himself out fighting it. I didn't get the whole thing, but I guess it is suppose to work. These children from Bosnia have such horrible, deep rooted problems though. I doubt that there is a whole lot that can be done, and if there is, like you said it is probably very, very expensive. Not many adoptive parents would want to take on anything like this. These kids are probably lost. :( Sue Hi Sue And I bet the children are not going to get the help they truly need. I guess it is a lengthly and expensive process. I have no idea of the treatment process, but there is some stuff on the Internet about therapies, but I would guess they are really expensive. jackief -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jackie: Prisons for Profit
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: You are going just at the right time of the year too. :) It won't be too cold, and it will be a lot cooler than most of the rest of the country. :) Let us know about the books and what is in them when you find out yourself. My husband is taking a lot of those computer courses now too. He gets to go to Fullerton to do it though. :( No space needle or monorail there. :) Sue Hi Sue Will stay at the Westem (??--stuff is at school) and it sounds like a fairly nice place. It is a restored hotel I think with all the older fixtures, etc. It says I can take the monorail to the Space Needle. I go the second weekend in July. I am excited about going as everyone says it is beautiful, but they are sending me to a computer workshop (teehee) so I can set up a computer-based curriculum for the department. Silly them g. I will be glad to share the info from the books. Have a real mixture--race relations, cj, social problems and of course intro for sociology and psych includes general, developmental, and abnormal. I have been looking at one of the criminology books and I really like his approach--he has finally written a truly interdisciplinary book--the approach some of us have been asking the publishers to get for years. I like the fact this author is using economics, law, biology etc. in addition to the two most often used: sociology and psychology. jackief -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Mike" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue, It's very common for children with mito disorders to appear perfectly healthy for a time, anywhere from a few days to 11 or 12 years (in my wife's case, she had no obvious symptoms until the age of 26.) Children with these disorders can exhibit a wide or narrow range of a large group of symptoms, most of which can vary from very slight to life threatening. There's such a wide range of disorders that stem from mitochondrial problems (cerebal palsy, for instance is one of them), that the ratio of someone having a mito disorder is believed to be just 1 in 4000. Granted, 10 is the largest number of children that I've heard of possibly being lost due to a mito disorder, but I can also see where this could possibly happen due to the unique circumstances. The Noes hold to the beliefs of the Catholic church, so no birth control was practiced short of abstinence. Back in the 60's and 70's, mito disorders were unknown (when Karen, my wife, was diagnosed, there were fewer than 30 cases diagnosed world-wide; and this was in 1987), and genetics was an infant science. If there was a mito disorder involved, it could have very well taken the life of each of the children, and yet have been overlooked by the best medical minds available back then to the authorities. Even Mrs. Noe's apparent mental instability can be explained by the presence of a mito disorder. All this aside, I agree that all of the angles need to be examined, mito disorder or not. My personal concern stems from seeing all of the harassment that our own folk go through with medical professionals who still don't know enough about mito disorders. Some of them have even been accused of abusing/neglecting their children. I just want the Noe's to get a fair shake. TTFN Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Hi Kathy and Mike: I don't know what to think about this. I really don't. I guess there is a very good chance that this could be the answer, but what about the two that lived until they got home and then died within a very short snip --- Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Vi: That has to be eating away at him. If nothing else gets to him that and the fact that everyone shuns him has to be worse than any prison sentence he could have gotten. :) Except he probably is so delusional that he doesn't even get it. :( Sue Hi Sue, I'd be willing to bet that the fact that his enemies are making money writing books and appearing on a TV series is what is bothering Simpson. Anyone who could do what Simpson did is incapable of change for te better IMO. The same goes for his family. Vi -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy: And I bet that they do know the *truth*. Or at least Sydney does. :( How sad. Sue Hi Sue and All :) From what I remember he was saying they were turning the children against him, and they told the kids that he murdered Nicole. They denied this of course, but no one knows the truth about that except for the children. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Something inspirational for the upcoming Mother's Day. Enjoy!
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Why Mothers Cry" "Why are you crying?" he asked his mom. "Because I'm a mother," she told him. "I don't understand," he said. His mom just hugged him and said, "You never will!" Later the little boy asked his father why Mother seemed to cry for no reason. "All mothers cry for no reason," was all his dad could say. The little boy grew up and became a man, still wondering why mothers cry. So he finally put in a call to G-d, and when G-d got on the phone the man said, "G-d, why do mothers cry so easily?" G-d said, "You see son, when I made mothers they had to be special. I made their shoulders strong enough to carry the weight of the world, yet gently enough to give comfort. I gave them an inner strength to endure childbirth and the rejection that many times come from their children." "I gave them a hardiness that allows them to keep going when everyone else gives up, and to take care of their families through sickness and fatigue without complaining." "I gave them the sensitivity to love their children under all circumstances, even when their child has hurt them very badly. This same sensitivity helps them to make a child's boo-boo feel better and helps them share a teenager's anxieties and fears." "I gave them a tear to shed. It's theirs exclusively to use whenever it's needed. It's their only weakness. It's a tear for mankind." Author Unknown -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Sunday's jokes
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And here's the joke: Woman - A Chemical Analysis Element : Woman Symbol: Wo Atomic Weight : Accepted as 118, but known to vary 105-175. Discoverer: Adam Occurrence: Copious quantities in all Urban areas, with slightly lower concentrations in Suburban and Rural areas. Subject to seasonal fluctuations. Physical Properties: 1) Surface usually covered with painted film. 2) Boils at nothing, freezes without reason. 3) Melts if given special treatment. 4) Bitter if used incorrectly. Can cause headaches. Handle with care! 5) Found in various states; ranging from virgin metal to common ore. 6) Yields to pressure applied to correct points. Chemical Properties: 1) Has great affinity for Gold, Silver, Platinum and many precious stones. 2) Absorbs great quantities of expensive substances. 3) May explode spontaneously if left alone on dates. 4) Insoluble in liquids, but there is increased activity when saturated in alcohol to a certain point. 5) Repels cheap material. Neutral to common sense. 6) Most powerful money reducing agent known to Man. Uses: 1) Highly ornamental, especially in sports cars. 2) Can greatly improve relaxation levels. 3) Can warm and comfort under some circumstances. 4) Can cool things down when it's too hot. Tests: 1) Pure specimen turns rosy pink when discovered in natural state. 2) Turns green when placed beside a better specimen. Caution: 1) Highly dangerous except in experienced hands. Use extreme care when handling. 2) Illegal to possess more than one at a time. -- What Does "Colonel" Stand For? Judge: Please identify yourself for the record. Defendant: Colonel Ebenezer Jackson. Judge: What does the "Colonel" stand for? Defendant: Well, it's kinda like the "Honorable" in front of your name. Not a damn thing. Top 16 Signs Your Janitor is Not a Mathematical Genius 16 Only 47 different locks in the building, but 150 keys on his key ring. 15 He's wallpapered the boiler room with old lottery tickets. 14 For some reason, counting to five often involves a journey into the double digits. 13 Uses WD-40 instead of Formula 409 when cleaning windows because "them big numbers is mighty scary." 12 The two quarters, two dimes and "pretty rock from the parking lot" he gave you as change for a dollar. 11 When told to provide two roles of toilet paper for all five bathroom stalls asks how many toilets that would be. 10 Despite lowering his trousers, can't seem to count past 21. 9 Take-home pay per week: $300. Price of keeping his kids in Nikes per week: $400. 8 Somehow thought he'd be getting more from his divorce settlement with Rosanne. 7 Says he enjoyed Wrestlemania X so much, he can't wait for Wrestlemania Y. 6 Thinks "circumference" is a Jewish ritual and "denominator" a Schwarzenegger movie. 5 His greatest math accomplishment? Formulated "Vern's Theorem" -- E=TP squared (Everyone loves an extra roll of toilet paper!) 4 His "Liquid Plumber" requires precisely one 6-pack and a 30-minute wait. 3 Couldn't remember so he had "2 parts water, 1 part Spic 'N' Span" tattooed on his forearm. 2 His "miracle cleaner"? 40% Mr. Clean and 90% water. and the Number 1 Sign Your Janitor is Not a Mathematical Genius... 1 He tries to measure Minnie Driver's head with anything less than a yardstick. A Woman's Random Thoughts Skinny people piss me off! Especially when they say things like, "You know sometimes I forget to eat." Now I've forgotten my address, my mother's maiden name, and my keys. But I've never forgotten to eat. You have to be a special kind of stupid to forget to eat. They say you shouldn't say anything about the dead unless it's good. He's dead. Good. A friend of mine confused her vallium with her birth control pills. She had 14 kids, but she doesn't give a shit. They keep telling us to get in touch with our bodies. Mine isn't all that communicative but I heard from it the other day after I said, "Body, how'd you like to go to the nine o'clock class in vigorous toning?" Clear as a bell my body said, "listen bitch... do it and you die." The trouble with some women is that they get all excited about nothing( and then they marry him.) I read this article that said the typical symptoms of stress are eating too much, smoking too much, impluse buying and driving too fast. Are they kidding? That is my idea of a perfect day. I know what Victoria's Secret is. The secret is that nobody older than 30 can fit into their shit. "If men can run the world, why can't they stop wearing neckties? How intelligent is it to start the day by tying a noose around your neck?" --- In honor of Bill Gates, whose demo of Windows 98 at COMDEX this week went up in flames when his system did a nose dive... The Top 16 Signs Your Windows 98 System is About to Crash 16
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy: And I bet that they do know the *truth*. Or at least Sydney does. :( How sad. Sue Not likely, Sue. At least not consciously. It is Sydney who clung to her father most, who most ferociously denied he was the killer, who is likely the most disturbed today and in the future. It was sick that the kids were returned to their father. That is real child abuse. Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron That is because you don't have one of the guard breeds. We are automatically jumped up for insurance just because of the breed--doesn't matter if they are trained or anything. They might bite a robber so therefore we pay more. We can't list them as an alarm system even though our system works before the robber enters :( jackief Ronald Helm wrote: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But, I will stick with the dogs, even if insurance is higher. Jackie Your insurance is higher because you own dogs? My insurance carries no canine clause. Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Sunday's jokes
"Mike" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue, Out of curiosity, is this a regular feature of the list? TTFN Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Some of them have even been accused of abusing/neglecting their children. I just want the Noe's to get a fair shake. TTFN Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is also a commonly used phrase in medicine, used to emphasize the fact that common things are common, rare things are rare. Child abuse is VERY common, mitochondrial disease is EXTREMELY rare. "When you hear the sounds of galloping hooves, think of horses, not zebras! Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Mike" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron, Mito disorders aren't "EXTREMELY" rare, just not diagnosed. 1 in 4000 is more common than pediatric cancer. Studies have shown that even aging is a process of the mitochondrial functions breaking down (Doug Wallace, Emory in Atlanta.) Because of this misconception, we've had parents put through horrendous situations by ignorant physicians who thought that they were 100% correct in their (mis)diagnosis. Folks have died as a result of this, we have children with permanent physical damage, and others have emotional scars that will take halfway to forever to heal because of well-meaning medical/social/protection services workers. TTFN Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- There is also a commonly used phrase in medicine, used to emphasize the fact that common things are common, rare things are rare. Child abuse is VERY common, mitochondrial disease is EXTREMELY rare. "When you hear the sounds of galloping hooves, think of horses, not zebras! Ron --- Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks, Mike. It is an old story. The one group of people that are most certainly guilty before proven innocent are parents. Our kindly government looks out for everyone else. "Mike" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron, Mito disorders aren't "EXTREMELY" rare, just not diagnosed. 1 in 4000 is more common than pediatric cancer. Studies have shown that even aging is a process of the mitochondrial functions breaking down (Doug Wallace, Emory in Atlanta.) Because of this misconception, we've had parents put through horrendous situations by ignorant physicians who thought that they were 100% correct in their (mis)diagnosis. Folks have died as a result of this, we have children with permanent physical damage, and others have emotional scars that will take halfway to forever to heal because of well-meaning medical/social/protection services workers. TTFN Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- There is also a commonly used phrase in medicine, used to emphasize the fact that common things are common, rare things are rare. Child abuse is VERY common, mitochondrial disease is EXTREMELY rare. "When you hear the sounds of galloping hooves, think of horses, not zebras! Ron --- Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.neuro.wustl.edu/neuromuscular/mitosyn.html Actually much is known about mitochondrial disease and the above URL will tell all of you much more than you ever wanted to know about these rare disorders. For the Noe children to have all died in infancy, one would have to believe that they all inherited a congenital form of mitochondrial disease, and None of them would have been normal. My wife and I, in our combined 50 years of caring for newborns have seen only one child with this rare disorder, and the child was so sick that it died in the NICU, and was diagnosed at autopsy. These mitochondrial syndromes are being used to explain all of the disorders like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, fibromyalgia, you name it. Blame your problems on "free radicals" mentality. No one wants to admit that some crazy woman killed all of her children. I doubt that exhumed tissues would be able to show whether any of these children had mitochondrial syndrome. 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Wife wins $45 Million
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A homemaker has won an equitable distribution award of $45 million, an amount that is believed to be the largest ever in New York State. In making the award, Justice Walter B. Tolub wrote that, through 33 years of marriage, the homemaker and her husband's "fortunes were inseparable." The decision will be published tomorrow. Justice Tolub concluded in Goldman v. Goldman, No. 313111/96, that the homemaker, Vira H. Goldman, was entitled to half the couple's assets, which total approximately $90 million. Ms. Goldman's husband, Robert I. Goldman is the chairman and chief executive officer of the Congress Finanical Corporation, a lending institution. Mr. Goldman's lawyer, Lawrence Pollack, of Midgal, Pollack, Rosenkrantz Sherman, said an appeal is likely. According to Norman S. Sheresky, who represented Ms. Goldman, it is common for courts to give a spouse a 50-percent share of a couple's assets when the value of their property is in the $10 million range. But there has been uncertainty in the matrimonial bar as to whether courts would award a 50-percent share for a large estate when that figure would generate far more income than necessary to maintain a homemaker's lifestyle, said Mr. Sheresky, of Sheresky Aronson Mayefesky. In Ms. Goldman's case, a 50-percent share would yield about $2.25 million in after-tax income, an amount far larger than she needed to live on, Mr. Sheresky said. Justice Tolub recognized that fact as well in ruling that an award of maintenance was unnecessary in light of "the sizeable equitable distribution award and its liquidity." Justice Tolub cited Ms. Goldman's substantial contributions as a homemaker to the marriage. She raised their child, who is now grown, without help, entertained without a full-time maid until 1986, and gave Mr. Goldman haircuts until they separated in 1996, he noted. Ms. Goldman also oversaw, in the manner of a general contractor, the renovation of the couple's Sutton Place townhouse as well as several investment properties on the East End of Long Island and in the Catskills. In sum, Justice Tolub wrote, "Ms. Goldman was involved with every phase of Mr. Goldman's existence." The major portion of the couple's assets was in stock that Mr. Goldman holds in Congress Financial Corporation, which has an after-tax value of $63.5 million, Justice Tolub said. The couple's other significant assets included the Sutton Square townhouse, with $3.1 million in equity; furniture and furnishings valued at $2.9 million; and bank accounts, stocks and other similar investments valued at $7.8 million. Justice Tolub also rejected Mr. Goldman's argument that the appreciation on about 25 percent of his stock holdings in Congress Financial should not be considered marital property because it was acquired prior to the couple's marriage. That argument, Justice Tolub, wrote "denigrates the true genius that is Robert Goldman." Corestates Bank which acquired a majority interest in Congress Financial in 1968 relied heavily on Mr. Goldman's expertise and went to substantial lengths to fashion a financial package to keep him with the company, Justice Tolub explained. Alan Mayefsky, of Sheresky Aronson, also represented Ms. Goldman. -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
"Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Sue, Wasn't there a photo of Sidney in front of Rockingham some time back with a sign that her father was innocent? I thought she believed her father was innocent. Has there been anything different learned? Joan -- From: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 1:07 AM Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Kathy: And I bet that they do know the *truth*. Or at least Sydney does. :( How sad. Sue Hi Sue and All :) From what I remember he was saying they were turning the children against him, and they told the kids that he murdered Nicole. They denied this of course, but no one knows the truth about that except for the children. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Sunday's jokes
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Mike: Yes. The OT posts got out of hand so Ed and Kathy have me put them all on one post a day. Sue Hi Sue, Out of curiosity, is this a regular feature of the list? TTFN -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Mike: I'm not at all familiar with this type of thing. I think that Ron and his wife would be the ones who would be able to shed light on it. If this is an inherited type of thing, and the mother is exhibiting symptoms and/or signs of it, testing probably would be a good idea on her. But these deaths took place so long ago, that I doubt that they would be able to find out through exhumation and autopsy if this was the cause. Again I have to leave this up to someone who knows. Sue Hi Sue, It's very common for children with mito disorders to appear perfectly healthy for a time, anywhere from a few days to 11 or 12 years (in my wife's case, she had no obvious symptoms until the age of 26.) Children with these disorders can exhibit a wide or narrow range of a large group of symptoms, most of which can vary from very slight to life threatening. There's such a wide range of disorders that stem from mitochondrial problems (cerebal palsy, for instance is one of them), that the ratio of someone having a mito disorder is believed to be just 1 in 4000. Granted, 10 is the largest number of children that I've heard of possibly being lost due to a mito disorder, but I can also see where this could possibly happen due to the unique circumstances. The Noes hold to the beliefs of the Catholic church, so no birth control was practiced short of abstinence. Back in the 60's and 70's, mito disorders were unknown (when Karen, my wife, was diagnosed, there were fewer than 30 cases diagnosed world-wide; and this was in 1987), and genetics was an infant science. If there was a mito disorder involved, it could have very well taken the life of each of the children, and yet have been overlooked by the best medical minds available back then to the authorities. Even Mrs. Noe's apparent mental instability can be explained by the presence of a mito disorder. All this aside, I agree that all of the angles need to be examined, mito disorder or not. My personal concern stems from seeing all of the harassment that our own folk go through with medical professionals who still don't know enough about mito disorders. Some of them have even been accused of abusing/neglecting their children. I just want the Noe's to get a fair shake. TTFN -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: And children, especially the little ones, are the ones that get the least protection from the law, until it is too late sometimes. :( A baby's life doesn't seem to have any value when it comes to the law, IMO. Sue Thanks, Mike. It is an old story. The one group of people that are most certainly guilty before proven innocent are parents. Our kindly government looks out for everyone else. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: It is a no win situation for these children. All one can hope for is that they will be able to grow up and lead relatively normal lives. I understand what you mean about Sydney. Daughters are very protective of their fathers. They will never see them as anything other than heros. In most cases anyway. Sue Not likely, Sue. At least not consciously. It is Sydney who clung to her father most, who most ferociously denied he was the killer, who is likely the most disturbed today and in the future. It was sick that the kids were returned to their father. That is real child abuse. Best, Terry -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Linda McCartney's death
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:28:48 EDT DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-25 17:25:09 EDT, you write: don't know about the rest of the public, but I never felt a "need to know" this stuff. Bill Glad to hear I'm not the only one who doesn't feel a "need to know" other people's business. I thought I was lacking some necessary trait or something. Doc Hi Doc, More likely you have a necessary trait that is lacking in others. :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Wife wins $45 Million
Leonard Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lets hear it for the Judge. It's about time they came to their senses and do the right thing for the wives. Len At 10:42 AM 4/27/1998 -0400, you wrote: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A homemaker has won an equitable distribution award of $45 million, an amount that is believed to be the largest ever in New York State. In making the award, Justice Walter B. Tolub wrote that, through 33 years of marriage, the homemaker and her husband's "fortunes were inseparable." The decision will be published tomorrow. Justice Tolub concluded in Goldman v. Goldman, No. 313111/96, that the homemaker, Vira H. Goldman, was entitled to half the couple's assets, which total approximately $90 million. Ms. Goldman's husband, Robert I. Goldman is the chairman and chief executive officer of the Congress Finanical Corporation, a lending institution. Mr. Goldman's lawyer, Lawrence Pollack, of Midgal, Pollack, Rosenkrantz Sherman, said an appeal is likely. According to Norman S. Sheresky, who represented Ms. Goldman, it is common for courts to give a spouse a 50-percent share of a couple's assets when the value of their property is in the $10 million range. But there has been uncertainty in the matrimonial bar as to whether courts would award a 50-percent share for a large estate when that figure would generate far more income than necessary to maintain a homemaker's lifestyle, said Mr. Sheresky, of Sheresky Aronson Mayefesky. In Ms. Goldman's case, a 50-percent share would yield about $2.25 million in after-tax income, an amount far larger than she needed to live on, Mr. Sheresky said. Justice Tolub recognized that fact as well in ruling that an award of maintenance was unnecessary in light of "the sizeable equitable distribution award and its liquidity." Justice Tolub cited Ms. Goldman's substantial contributions as a homemaker to the marriage. She raised their child, who is now grown, without help, entertained without a full-time maid until 1986, and gave Mr. Goldman haircuts until they separated in 1996, he noted. Ms. Goldman also oversaw, in the manner of a general contractor, the renovation of the couple's Sutton Place townhouse as well as several investment properties on the East End of Long Island and in the Catskills. In sum, Justice Tolub wrote, "Ms. Goldman was involved with every phase of Mr. Goldman's existence." The major portion of the couple's assets was in stock that Mr. Goldman holds in Congress Financial Corporation, which has an after-tax value of $63.5 million, Justice Tolub said. The couple's other significant assets included the Sutton Square townhouse, with $3.1 million in equity; furniture and furnishings valued at $2.9 million; and bank accounts, stocks and other similar investments valued at $7.8 million. Justice Tolub also rejected Mr. Goldman's argument that the appreciation on about 25 percent of his stock holdings in Congress Financial should not be considered marital property because it was acquired prior to the couple's marriage. That argument, Justice Tolub, wrote "denigrates the true genius that is Robert Goldman." Corestates Bank which acquired a majority interest in Congress Financial in 1968 relied heavily on Mr. Goldman's expertise and went to substantial lengths to fashion a financial package to keep him with the company, Justice Tolub explained. Alan Mayefsky, of Sheresky Aronson, also represented Ms. Goldman. -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Ex-Miss America apologizes to first lady over alleged one-night
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:35:27 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gracen believes the heavy media coverage of Clinton's alleged affair with a White House intern and the lengthy investigation into his past are ``embarrassing for America.'' I don't think an investigation of anything is "embarrassing for America". The only thing that is embarrassing for America is Clinton's "patterns of behavior". I don't even think William Foristal would consider the investigation embarrassing for America, maybe potentially embarrassing for Clinton, Bill? HI Ron, If there is credible and reasonable evidence to suggest that a president may have broken the law, then I think it is imperative that an independent investigation be conducted. Rather than embarrassing America I think it's a sign that the system works and no one is above the law. I DO think that people who bring false charges against anyone and that prosecutors who use their position to wage a poltiical battle that is more concerned with falsely convicting someone rather than engaging in a bona fide investigation should be the ones who are embarrassed. But how can a nation that has such a large percentage of its citizens watching shows like Jerry Springer really be embarrassed by the Starr investigation? :) Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Sue, She has gone on record as offering to give her testimony in forums other than the Grand Jury as long as Starr was not involved. I guess Starr figured he may as well question Hillary Clinton again. At least she'll answer his questions. :) Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:45:48 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Yeah, right, like Starr would listen to me. BG Besides I think that if it were possible her lawyers or someone would have done it by now, if for no other reason than to keep her out of jail. I don't think that they will throw her in jail this time anyway. Her testimony isn't worth anything anyway. She is a convicted felon. Sue Hi Sue, That's a great suggestion. Maybe you should send a letter to Starr and copy in Janet Reno. I agree, we'll probably never know the complete and true story about Whitewater and the other allegations. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jackie: Prisons for Profit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: And Seattle is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. My registration is verified and the secretary is making plane reservations. Now all I have to do is go to desensitization training so I can go up in the Space Needle and attend the dinner vbg jackief Hi Jackie, You'll love Seattle! And the Space Needle is no problem! Just close your eyes when you are on the elevator, if it bothers you. The view is great from the top. Even better than the CN Tower in Toronto, IMO. If you have a day or two extra you should make sure you get down to the market. Even if you don't buy anything it's fun to watch the guys throw those huge fish around as they wrap them up for customers. And a REALLY fun trip would be to take a ferry to Victoria, BC on Vancouver Island. Go to the Empress Hotel for a touch of Britain and attend the afternoon tea. Then go see Bouchart Gardens. They have newer boats that can make the crossing in about four hours. But you still need two days to spare to make it worth while. Have a great time! Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Not My Kids
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Terry, Your story of you and Brian was inspirational. I have always believed that all children belong to the community of wyich they are a part, rather than just to their parents. We really are our brother's keeper. Bless you! Vi _ You wote: . . . When you see them roaming the streets of your neighborhood, don't just say, "Well, it's not *my* kid" Best, _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:03:08 -0700 "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . We are probably the only 2 who believe King had to be subdued and the officers were not totally at fault. Joan Oh no you are not the only two! Add my name to the list, and didn't the first jury acquit the police, the verdict that led to all of the riots. That case should never have been tried again. Ron Hi Ron, LOL...you see a tape of a crime being committed and you deny that it occurred. You see rumor, leaks and gossip about Clinton and insist that he is guilty. Amazing behavior for a very intelligent person. The federal trial was demanded by justice and justice was satisfied. Too bad they couldn't have had a federal trial for Simpson. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:26:35 -0500 Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jackie Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William J. Foristal wrote: The thing that amazed me was the apparent accuracy of the shooters. Not many shots missed. Bill Hi Bill I don't know but I don't think that would really be considered amazing in this area and possibly the South. Kids are taught gun shooting and safety at a very early age here. This is hunting and fishing country, remember. And Mitch spent his summers here, even after going south. And it sounds like Drew's family were also around guns. I think that is why it was such a shock--guns are more often seen as recreational rather than for protection and power. jackief Hi Jackie, Yeah, I know...but this was a lot different from target practice or even hunting animals. To think that 11 and 13 year old kids could have such accuracy in shooting other kids is very disturbing to me. It indicates a complete emotional separation from the reality of what they were doing. Bill _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Re: D.P.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, I don't think that these kids even formulate an idea of what the consequences might be. Too bad there are so many guns around that they never seem to have a problem getting their hands on one or two of them. I don't think that executing kids is the answer to the problem. Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:42:15 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Well, we now have another 14 year old in Penn who shot and killed a teacher. This is really getting out of hand. Even one is bad, but geeze, everyday we are reading about a new one. 14 seems to be the popular age for doing this. Wonder if that is because they know that nothing horrible is going to happen to them? Sue Hi Sue, I agree, and I certainly would not suggest that any kid get off lightly for committing murder. I just don't think the current methods are appropriate. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI The Rodney King Beating - The Other Story part two
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Sue, The point is there was a lot that went on between King and the cops before the video was made, and most probably afterward. I heard no one say the video had been edited before it was aired on the TV news. Bottom line: the video didn't tell the whole story, but people like George Bush saw it, freaked out and declared there had been injustice in the Simi Valley verdict of "not guilty" in the cops' trial. And don't imagine that he who attends these trials comes away with the certainty that they know exactly what went down. They only know what the lawyers on either side want them to know and are competent enough to reveal. But I'll bet King and the cops know exactly what went down! :) Vi __ You wrote: . . .I just wish that they had shown that video from the beginning to thepublic. Maybe they did and I just missed it. I must have seen the other one a million times though. It may have helped to understand why the jury came to the verdict that they came to.. . . _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Wife wins $45 Million
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lets hear it for the Judge. It's about time they came to their senses and do the right thing for the wives. Len Obviously Len has not been in the dame divorce court that I had the opportunity of viewing. Women have always had the advantage in a divorce court :-) Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Seattle Trip
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seattle is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. Another beautiful side trip would be to visit Ron about 30 miles South of the Space Needle. Did you see the article I posted a couple days back, that Seattle was the top rated city for women in the country. Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Mike" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ron wrote: --- snip disease, and None of them would have been normal. My wife and I, in our combined 50 years of caring for newborns have seen only one child with this rare disorder, and the child was so sick that it died in the NICU, and was diagnosed at autopsy. These mitochondrial syndromes are being used to explain all of the disorders like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, fibromyalgia, you name it. Blame your problems on "free radicals" mentality. No one wants to admit that some crazy woman killed all of her children. I doubt that exhumed tissues would be able to show whether any of these children had mitochondrial syndrome. --- Ron, You might find it interesting to visit our website (address below in my signature). I've been dealing with mitochondrial disorders since 1982, and would never make a statement about mito disorders without solid evidence to back it up. I'm surprised that you based your conclusions on just that one child's diagnosis. There's a search results webpage at our website that includes 450 links to mito-related webpages, a page with links to other excellent mito-related websites, and downloadable PDF-format files on MELAS, the mito disorder that took my wife's life (and possibly the lives of three of our children, all at birth or just prior to it), and a short version of my wife's medical history. We have 127 families in our support listserv, the MMRD-List, quite a few with multiple children and the mother affected by their particular mito disorder. ... and ,yes, it would be well nigh impossible to exhume the bodies and diagnose a mito disorder. Please pardon the full signature... TTFN Mike Jackson, Director/Administrator --- MELAS Online Network the Following Listservs: MMRD-List -=- KIDS_MMRD-List -=- MITO_NET-List Dad to Mike, a tiggerrific son (11 nda), two Gerbils a Bunny Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - AOL IM ID: Mike MMRD MELAS Online Network: http://www.melas.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Yep, and the Clinton haters can't stand it. If Starr had evidence to impeach McDougal's testimony then he wouldn't need her testimony, would he? He wants to force her to lie and implicate Clinton because he has NO evidence to do this on its own merits. Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:01:57 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I bet that there ends up being a whole library of books that come out of this mess. And the one book that everyone will be waiting for is one from Hillary. (she won't write one though) Susan McDougal won't be made to testify again, IMO. Starr can't handle anymore public scorn, no one will believe her no matter what she says, and it just doesn't make sense to jail her again. If Starr has information that will get the Clintons, I doubt that anything that Susan has to say will make any difference one way or the other. Sue HI Sue, Excellent questions. She's not going to be hurting for money because she can sell her story as a book and probably a movie. I think that there will be a lot more information coming out about Mr. Starr and his investigating tactics with respect to Susan McDougal. And with his approval rating at a very low level now, this may just be the straw that breaks the elephant's back. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI US Supreme Court News 4/27/98
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: During the week of 4/27/98, the United States Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in case summarized below. Monge v. California No. 97-6146 Court below: Supreme Court of California At issue in this constitutional law case is whether the double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment applies to noncapital sentencing hearings at which the trial court must find that the defendant has a prior conviction for a second-strike offense. Monge was convicted in 1995 of a drug-related felony. Under California's three-strikes law, after a conviction for a serious felony, a second felony conviction sentence may be doubled under the second-strike enhancement provision. Monge was also convicted of assault in 1992, but assault is not considered a felony that would trigger the three-strikes rule unless it was committed with a deadly weapon or serious bodily injury had been inflicted. At the sentencing hearing, the state failed to introduce any evidence to support either element for a prior serious felony. The court below remanded for rehearing and held that the double jeopardy clause was inapplicable in such sentencing proceedings. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Joan, I agree with you completely! There was also some disturbing evidence that showed some racist comments over the police radio. This is the kind of foolish behavior that must be eliminated also. Bill On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:57:44 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Kathy, I recall your post about LAPD training. Hopefully it has improved with time and with the exposure that police force has received. I believe when it is necessary to subdue a prisoner attempting to avoid capture or to escape or to prevent that individual from harming someone, then force must be used. I believe King needed to be subdued as he did not succumb to capture willingly. The line appears to be at what point King was under control and how much physical force was still used when it was unnecessary. I believe there was abuse and that was wrong. On the other hand, I do not excuse King for the part he played. Had he not behaved as he did, a high speed chase would have been avoided and had he not resisted arrest and attacked the officers, no force would have been necessary. However, I certainly distinguish between necessary force and abuse. Abuse is not acceptable on the part of the criminal or the police. I understand your point. :) Joan -- From: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 1:16 PM Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan :) I disagree with you :) If you remember a couple of years ago I stated that the problem was in the training of the LAPD according to their training they were following the procedures used at the time. OTOH that does not lift the responsibility off of the officers and what they did, nor does it lift the responsibility off of RK and what he did. Joan Moyer wrote: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Vi, Glad the surgery was successful. I had a house on the market once for a year and it was a real worry since I had bought another. Glad to read your posts. We are probably the only 2 who believe King had to be subdued and the officers were not totally at fault. Joan -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, Exactly, and that is why executing kids will never serve as a deterrent to other kids who may act on their compulsions. Now, keeping guns away from them would certainly be a better idea. And I DO support more severe penalties in the form of confinement in an appropriate institution for a very long time. Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:08:13 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Ouch!! Thank God that was all that happened. I did some pretty stupid things, similar to that, when I was a kid too. Sometimes I think it is a miracle that as many kids live to see adulthood as they do. :) You said the same thing that I was trying to say. I don't think that these kids even think of the consequences of shooting that gun. Death to a kid really has no meaning. They don't understand that dead is dead, and there is no changing it. And the movies and television don't make it any easier for them to understand. The "dead" guy always gets up and stars in another movie. :( Sue HI Sue, I think they knew that something horrible was going to happen if they squeezed that trigger, but another part of the child-like mind can be very compulsive. And the connection between squeezing that trigger as well as the distance between them and the victims was not enough to stop that compulsive action. Once the first shot was fired I imagine the rest were easy. I think everyone can remember foolish and compulsive actions done as a child. I got hit by a car once because of one when I was 13. Since there was never any traffic at this one intersection of two alleys I used to ride my bike at full speed right through it. I knew it was stupid and dangerous and even remember the thrill of the danger and knowing it was stupid. Sure enough, one day there was a car and bang, I went sailing throught the air. Luckily, all I got was a sprained wrist and a small gouge on my leg. And a very valuable lesson. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
"Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Bill, Despite the fact that old habits die slowly, as they say :), professional behavior must prevail. I don't recall hearing of the racist comments made on the police radio, but there is no room for such comments over the radio or anywhere in the workplace. Can't control people in their homes or other private areas. I guess education and being raised without hatred is part of the answer, but so much racism within all races still exists, I don't see a lot of hope in the near future. However, it can be controlled on the job. Joan -- From: William J. Foristal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 12:08 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Joan, I agree with you completely! There was also some disturbing evidence that showed some racist comments over the police radio. This is the kind of foolish behavior that must be eliminated also. Bill On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:57:44 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Kathy, I recall your post about LAPD training. Hopefully it has improved with time and with the exposure that police force has received. I believe when it is necessary to subdue a prisoner attempting to avoid capture or to escape or to prevent that individual from harming someone, then force must be used. I believe King needed to be subdued as he did not succumb to capture willingly. The line appears to be at what point King was under control and how much physical force was still used when it was unnecessary. I believe there was abuse and that was wrong. On the other hand, I do not excuse King for the part he played. Had he not behaved as he did, a high speed chase would have been avoided and had he not resisted arrest and attacked the officers, no force would have been necessary. However, I certainly distinguish between necessary force and abuse. Abuse is not acceptable on the part of the criminal or the police. I understand your point. :) Joan -- From: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 1:16 PM Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan :) I disagree with you :) If you remember a couple of years ago I stated that the problem was in the training of the LAPD according to their training they were following the procedures used at the time. OTOH that does not lift the responsibility off of the officers and what they did, nor does it lift the responsibility off of RK and what he did. Joan Moyer wrote: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Vi, Glad the surgery was successful. I had a house on the market once for a year and it was a real worry since I had bought another. Glad to read your posts. We are probably the only 2 who believe King had to be subdued and the officers were not totally at fault. Joan -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: How do you know that Starr has evidence that would impeach Susan McDougal? Another very irresponsible statement, IMO. Best, Bill On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:00:49 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue, It is up to the jury to evaluate any witness. The great majority of people in the witness protection program are criminals themselves, convicted or not. Some who were not and left the program despite the threat to their personal security complained bitterly of their treatment as criminals. The reason Susan McDougal did not just go before the grand jury and lie for Clinton is that Starr has evidence that would impeach her. That is, of course, the source of the nonsensical claim that she was willing to go to jail to avoid having to go to jail. It is amazing that adults of reasonable intelligence can swallow such stuff. I can understand why a prosecutor might not put on minor and unnecessary witnesses as apparently happened in your jury duty when he found out the witnesses were convicted felons. Naturally a prosecutor would prefer only the most innocent and chaste of witnesses but they are not always available and are most unlikely as witnesses to conspiracy. Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: I can understand what you are saying, but I thought that if a person was a convicted felon their testimony wasn't considered any good (or something to that effect). When I was on jury duty a couple of the so called witnesses were excused because they had a felony record. Sue I doubt there have been many, if any, mob leaders or druglords that have been convicted without the testimony of fellow mobsters. Starr's methods of going up the chain of conspirators is the natural progression of conviction by all prosecutors in such cases. The unwillingness of such witnesses to testify is what keeps the mob bosses out of jail just as it is doing with the Clintons so far. Susan McDougal herself was convicted largely by the testimony of David Hale, who was a convicted perjurer. Naturally such testimony has to be backed by reasonable evidence. Best, Terry -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: How do you I don't answer questions in this forum from those who only indulge in personal attacks. Should you ever decide to clean yourself up and lay off the stuff then we can talk. If you wish to indulge to silly fantasy of believing Susan McDougal went to jail to avoid going to jail, continue on. The people you think are laughing with you may be laughing at you. Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Gotta Love the HMO's
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Verdict fires warning shot at managed care Doctor wins case claiming he was fired for delivering high-quality care Karen Brandon; Chicago Tribune SAN DIEGO - These are the things Dr. Thomas Self believes cost him his job: He spent too much time with his patients. He ordered too many tests that didn't generate enough profits. He refused to perform unnecessary surgeries. In sum, he contends he was fired because he advocated "a higher level of health care" than his medical group would tolerate in a business increasingly driven by profits and beholden to contracts with managed care companies. This month, a jury agreed, awarding him $1.7 million, finding that his firing was malicious and that he had been defamed. Another phase of the trial is scheduled to begin Wednesday to determine whether additional, punitive damages are warranted. The verdict is believed to be the first of its kind in the nation, making Self the only physician to have successfully argued, in effect, that a medical company's emphasis on the bottom line got in the way of a doctor's attempts to provide good medical care. The conclusion has pricked a nerve in the managed care era of medicine. And Self's case is seen as a sign of growing public unease about whether the balance between money and medicine has been skewed to the detriment of patients. "The message is exceedingly clear: patient care over profits, and medicine over money," said Miles Zaremski, a Chicago lawyer who is past president of an American Bar Association medicine and law committee. "This message is being sent by representatives of the American public, the jury." Self, a 58-year-old pediatrician who specializes in treating digestive illnesses, said he believes his situation is distressingly typical, judging from the congratulatory telegrams, letters and phone calls he has received in recent days from patients and doctors throughout the nation. "I think when a patient goes to a physician, he shouldn't feel that he's going to a businessman first," Self said. "He should be going to a healer, not someone who's going to look at the bottom line and then adjust the treatment accordingly." Self was careful to note he does not oppose managed care, "except where it begins to control the art and science of medicine." But, he added, "Wherever managed care has become very powerful, physicians have been under some constraints about what kind of care they can give to their patients." Though the verdict's symbolism is evident, its practical ramifications are not. The case, which grew out of a 5-year-old California law, sets no national precedent. Moreover, it did not directly target a managed care organization, aiming instead at the actions of a physicians group contracting with such businesses. As a result, health maintenance organization representatives were quick to suggest the verdict was not applicable to them. But the jurors' decision comes against a backdrop of considerable change in public policies concerning managed care organizations. Self's suit addressed a California law enacted in 1993 precluding medical groups and managed care organizations from retaliating against physicians for giving their patients appropriate care. In recent years, about half the states have enacted similar statutes, Zaremski said. Legislation is being considered at both state and national levels to hold managed care organizations more accountable for the repercussions of their care, or lack of care. Texas last year became the first state in the nation to allow health maintenance organizations to be sued for medical negligence. And legislation has been introduced in Congress that would change the federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act, which prohibits people who get their health care through their employer - the vast majority of Americans - from bringing some lawsuits against HMOs. "You know all this is a product of groups of individuals in the electorate complaining about what's going on," Zaremski said. Alan Bloom, general counsel of Maxicare Health Plans, a company that runs HMOs covering some 700,000 patients in seven states, suggested the verdict had little relevance for HMOs. "The HMOs don't tell the medical group how to do their business," he said. "We sell our plan to the patients. We want the patients to get the best possible care because they are free to leave us each year if they are not happy." But Sherry Bahrambeygui, Self's lawyer, called such interpretations far too narrow. "That's an oversimplification, a convenient way for managed care proponents to hide," she said. "Medical groups as a practical matter are agents of managed care organizations in this day and age. "The customer is the managed care organization. They're the ones that control the flow of patients. And if the managed care organization expresses dissatisfaction with one of the physicians, a medical group could be faced with a situation where it says either we get this doctor
LI Supreme Court To Study Carjack Law
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Supreme Court To Study Carjack Law WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court today agreed to decide whether Congress left a gaping loophole in a federal carjacking law. The court will hear the argument of a New York man who says he never intended to seriously hurt the people whose cars he stole at gunpoint. The justices said they will review Francois Holloway's arguments that lower courts misread a federal anti-carjacking law by concluding it covers crimes committed with ``conditional intent'' to harm victims who refuse to comply with the robber's demands. Holloway was convicted and sentenced to over 50 years in prison for his part in a carjacking ring that sold parts from stolen vehicles dismantled in a Queens shop. In other cases the court: -- Said it will tackle a big-stakes dispute over pension funds, setting the stage for a decision that could affect the 33 million American workers and retirees who participate in defined-benefit plans. The justices will review a ruling that allowed five retired Hughes Aircraft Co., employees to pursue a 1992 lawsuit over what they say was a $1.2 billion surplus in the company's contributory pension plan. -- Agreed to use a California case to decide whether some local governments can avoid the need for federal approval to change their election systems by getting them ratified through state law. --Rejected Rockwell International Corp.'s attempt to get out from under any further federal liability for its past operation of the Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant near Denver. --Let stand rulings that require the federal government to repay New York Life Insurance Co. nearly $32 million -- taxes and interest the Internal Revenue Service said the insurance firm owed for 1984. --Rejected a challenge to a Minnesota school district's operation of a rural school rented from a religious sect and attended only by children of the sect's members. -- Let stand a $71.8 million antitrust award against Eastman Kodak Co. won by competitors who repair Kodak equipment. In the carjacking case, prosecutors said Holloway, on several occasions in the fall of 1994, confronted motorists with a gun and demanded that they surrender their car keys. When one man hesitated, Holloway punched him in the face. The federal law makes it a crime to take a motor vehicle by force ``with the intent to cause death or serious bodily harm.'' The federal judge who presided over Holloway's trial told jurors they could find such intent if they thought Holloway would have seriously hurt victims who did not comply with his demands. The jury then convicted him. The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld Holloway's conviction, ruling that such a common-sense interpretation was valid despite the law's somewhat ambiguous language. In the appeal acted on today, Holloway argued that the appeals court's ruling violated ``fundamental principles of statutory construction'' and his due-process rights. The Supreme Court turned away two similar challenges last year, but had asked Justice Department lawyers to file a brief in response to Holloway's arguments. That brief urged rejection of his appeal. The justices today did not follow the government's advice. The court's decision in Holloway's case is expected sometime in 1999. The case is Holloway vs. U.S., 97-7164. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Aussie Nanny Charged in Kid's Death
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aussie Nanny Charged in Kid's Death LONDON (AP) -- An Australian nanny facing charges in connection with the death of a 6-month-old girl pleaded innocent Monday, while a pathologist testified the child probably was killed by ``shaken baby syndrome.'' Louise Sullivan, 26, of New South Wales, appeared at London's Clerkenwell Magistrate's court and was ordered to reappear June 8. Miss Sullivan, who worked for Caroline Jongen's parents, Dutchman Marcel Jongen and his French wife, Muriel, is charged with causing grievous bodily harm. The charges have not been increased to unlawful killing or manslaughter since Caroline's death April 17. The baby died when her life-support machine was switched off. On Thursday, the former live-in nanny was released from custody on bail and ordered to surrender her passport. At an inquest in another London court, St. Pancras, a pathologist said Monday it would be 4-6 weeks before he could say for certain why the baby died. ``On initial examination, there was no evidence of any marks of violence externally,'' said Dr. Freddy Patel. ``There was evidence of hemorrhaging in the brain and eyes -- a combination highly suggestive of shaken baby syndrome.'' In 1997, a British au pair, Louise Woodward, was convicted in Massachusetts of killing an 8-month-old boy. A jury convicted her of second-degree murder, but a judge reduced the verdict to manslaughter and sentenced her to the 279 days she had already served. Both sides have appealed. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Supreme Court Rejects Hale Request
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Supreme Court Rejects Hale Request LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) -- The U.S. Supreme Court today rejected an effort by Whitewater figure David Hale to stop a state trial he says is political payback for his cooperation with Whitewater prosecutors. In a one-sentence order, the full court echoed Justice Clarence Thomas, who last Tuesday also denied Hale's request to delay the trial in Pulaski County Circuit Court. After Thomas' decision, Hale's lawyers had resubmitted the request to Justice David H. Souter, who then referred it to the full court. Hale, 56, is charged with lying to insurance regulators about the solvency of the burial insurance company the state says he owned. The trial began Wednesday but was delayed after Hale checked himself into a hospital the next day -- an hour before opening statements were scheduled -- complaining of chest pain and other problems. The trial is due to resume Thursday after medical tests. Defense lawyer David Bowden had argued unsuccessfully that immunity granted in a plea agreement with federal Whitewater prosecutors should have shielded Hale from state prosecution. In 1994, Hale pleaded guilty to two federal felony fraud counts and agreed to cooperate in the Whitewater investigation of President Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton. He served about 21 months. Hale was a key witness in the 1996 Whitewater trial of James and Susan McDougal and then-Gov. Jim Guy Tucker. The trial resulted in convictions for the McDougals and Tucker. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Well Starr has less than two weeks left, and then he is going to either have to do something or let the whole thing go. I doubt very much that Hillary will be indicted though. I just can't see that happening. Sue Hi Sue, She has gone on record as offering to give her testimony in forums other than the Grand Jury as long as Starr was not involved. I guess Starr figured he may as well question Hillary Clinton again. At least she'll answer his questions. :) Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Re: D.P.
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: This last kidis unreal. They showed them taking him away in the back of the squad car and he was laughing and smiling to beat the band. Then his lawyer comes out and says that the kid is devestated. There have been psychologists on all the local television stations all weekend trying to explain this, and telling parents what to look for. They seem to blame it a lot on copy cat personality. Also they are saying that we shouldn't be at all surprised that teens are reacting this way. They have been left to take care of themselves for such a long time, that this is the result of it. I dunno about this last statement though. Sue HI Sue, I don't think that these kids even formulate an idea of what the consequences might be. Too bad there are so many guns around that they never seem to have a problem getting their hands on one or two of them. I don't think that executing kids is the answer to the problem. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mike: I am now among the very special people who have visited your referenced website, thank you. As you know, there are inherited and acquired forms of mitochondrial disease and we certainly do not deny the existence of this disorder. However, to attempt to explain away the death of ten children in one child abuser's family, all of whom started out their childhood normal, and neither parent obviously died of this disease, by resorting to a hereditary disease ( which can never be proven) as the cause of these deaths is really a s-t-r-e-t-c-h. Is Noe a born again Christian? Ron If you're born again, do you have two bellybuttons? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-27 14:57:17 EDT, you write: If you're born again, do you have two bellybuttons? [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't have even one. Now, go try to figure that one out! (I usually tell anyone who notices that I'm an android, but the last person I said that too freaked out and seemed to believe it, so I'd probably better get a new line.) Doc Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI The Rodney King Beating - The Other Story part two
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Vi: I don't know if the first part of the video has ever been shown or not, but that was the first time I had seen it. In fact I think that they said it was the first time it had been shown to the public before they did show it. I'm not positive about that though. Sue Hi Sue, The point is there was a lot that went on between King and the cops before the video was made, and most probably afterward. I heard no one say the video had been edited before it was aired on the TV news. Bottom line: the video didn't tell the whole story, but people like George Bush saw it, freaked out and declared there had been injustice in the Simi Valley verdict of "not guilty" in the cops' trial. And don't imagine that he who attends these trials comes away with the certainty that they know exactly what went down. They only know what the lawyers on either side want them to know and are competent enough to reveal. But I'll bet King and the cops know exactly what went down! :) Vi -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Did they have scopes on these rifles. Sue Hi Jackie, Yeah, I know...but this was a lot different from target practice or even hunting animals. To think that 11 and 13 year old kids could have such accuracy in shooting other kids is very disturbing to me. It indicates a complete emotional separation from the reality of what they were doing. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron: There is something here that is getting lost. She admitted to have killed them. She confessed to smothering them. Then took back her confession. Sue What kind of God would want a family to keep having children that would inherit a lethal anomaly? Mike, is the mode of inheritance for the inherited form of mitochondrial disease known? Is it autosomal dominant? Even if it is X linked recessive (could not be dominant or the mother would have it), only half of the children would likely inherit the disease. Ron -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron: Only eight of them died that way. One was still born, and another died within hours of birth in the hospital. They are Catholics and believe that God wanted them to keep having children. Sue What kind of God would want a family to keep having children that would inherit a lethal anomaly? Mike, is the mode of inheritance for the inherited form of mitochondrial disease known? Is it autosomal dominant? Even if it is X linked recessive (could not be dominant or the mother would have it), only half of the children would likely inherit the disease. Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan: I remember Sydney with a sign when the kids were selling lemonaide, but I don't remember what it said. Nothing new has been learned as far as I know. Just Simpsons repeated statements that, IMO, are lies. Sue Hello Sue, Wasn't there a photo of Sidney in front of Rockingham some time back with a sign that her father was innocent? I thought she believed her father was innocent. Has there been anything different learned? Joan -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-27 15:12:25 EDT, you write: I don't have even one. Now, go try to figure that one out! Tummy tucks (abdominoplasties) would certainly be easier to do if the patients would be satisfied with having no belly button. Nowhere to put your salt when eating celery in bed. Ron Good guess, Ron, but wrong. Don't worry -- you get two more. Doc Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Gotta Love the HMO's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Verdict fires warning shot at managed care Doctor wins case claiming he was fired for delivering high-quality care Karen Brandon; Chicago Tribune SAN DIEGO - These are the things Dr. Thomas Self believes cost him his job: He spent too much time with his patients. He ordered too many tests that didn't generate enough profits. He refused to perform unnecessary surgeries. My favorite was a doctor refusing to perform cataract surgery on a woman in her 90's with Alzheimer's. Surgery and other procedures for government and insurance reimbursement may be as much a threat as lack of proper care. My wife upset a hospital once when she refused to have a routine x-ray when she was pregnant. X-rays at the time were very profitable while other insurance-reimbursed charges could actually generate losses. I suppose the threat of x-rays to a developing fetus is not as great as hysterical sorts would have it but the benefit was not obvious and there was at least some unknown possibility of damage. I sure wish there were more Dr. Selfs. Very glad there is one. It is not as easy as some imagine to sue. Thanks for the article, Ron. Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Attachment Disorder was LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Jackie and Sue, I saw a case on TV that would fit this description. A nice, wholesome famiily adopted a baby boy who,despite all the love and care they bestowed on him, grew into a monster. He set their house on fire and otherwise made their lives miserable to the point they were afraid of him. It got so bad they kicked him out post puberty and moved fom the town where they had all lived. To this day they live in fear of their lives if the adopted son ever finds out where they are. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Joan, Kinda makes you wonder what kind of stuffing 's in the heads of the others!? (VBG) Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. _ _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Joan, Pardon the intrusion, but I have absolutely no doubt that every member of the Simpson family knew OJ was guilty. The older daughter lived in the guest house on Rockingham and must have known exactly what was going on. Even OJ's mother exclaimed as soon as she heard the news of Nicole"s death on TV. "OJ killed her!" I'm also certain that the family claimd he was innocent to spare him from time in prison and loss of income from the bad publicity that would ensue if they did otherwise. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: Wasn't there a photo of Sidney in front of Rockingham some time back with a sign that her father was innocent? I thought she believed her father was innocent. Has there been anything different learned? _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
"Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Vi, I agree. I believe the family knew Simpson was guilty. It's possible some knew but couldn't face the outcome if he were found guilty. I can understand a family being protective. I do not excuse the Simpson family for blaming others. They made some pretty strong statements about the police and others being at fault. I don't think they really cared about Nicole or Ron, only themselves. Also, they cried racism and yet were guarded by Nation of Islam. Joan -- From: Viola Provenzano [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 4:26 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Joan, Pardon the intrusion, but I have absolutely no doubt that every member of the Simpson family knew OJ was guilty. The older daughter lived in the guest house on Rockingham and must have known exactly what was going on. Even OJ's mother exclaimed as soon as she heard the news of Nicole"s death on TV. "OJ killed her!" I'm also certain that the family claimd he was innocent to spare him from time in prison and loss of income from the bad publicity that would ensue if they did otherwise. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: Wasn't there a photo of Sidney in front of Rockingham some time back with a sign that her father was innocent? I thought she believed her father was innocent. Has there been anything different learned? _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I was commenting on what Simpson said the other day, about the kids never asking or mentioning their mother's death. According to him they haven't said a word, and he hasn't said anything to them. But he also said (during the custody hearings) that the Brown's had been filling their heads with lies, saying that he killed their mother and trying to turn them against him. Terry was just saying that in pictures of the family, Sydney looked very protective of her father. As far as I know the kids have never said anything at all to the media. I just feel that the kids know what is going on. Especially Sydney with her computer. Sue Hi Sue, I'm a bit confused here. When did anyone actually speak to Sydney and report what she said to the media? And the media has certainly not been allowed to speak to her, have they? It seems that all we have are the statements from biased family members, either the Simpsons or the Browns. I don't see how anyone can conclude anything from this with respect to what she really knows or believes. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI SUSAN MCDOUGAL IMPLICATES NEW YORK TIMES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:04:42 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: How do you I don't answer questions in this forum from those who only indulge in personal attacks. Should you ever decide to clean yourself up and lay off the stuff then we can talk. If you wish to indulge to silly fantasy of believing Susan McDougal went to jail to avoid going to jail, continue on. The people you think are laughing with you may be laughing at you. Best, Terry Sorry you have such a thin skin. I would think that you of all people would have recognized the need to develop a thicker one. And your hesitation to answer the tough questions has been noticed when others have asked them also. :) Best, Bill PS: I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing near you. VBG _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: Hi Joan, I guess we should be encouraged by the progress that HAS been made over the past twenty to thirty years. I think as long as everyone continues to fight for the elimination of racial prejudice and discrimination that progress will continue. But I doubt if we will ever see the end of it completely. Perhaps future generations will. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:21:52 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Bill, Despite the fact that old habits die slowly, as they say :), professional behavior must prevail. I don't recall hearing of the racist comments made on the police radio, but there is no room for such comments over the radio or anywhere in the workplace. Can't control people in their homes or other private areas. I guess education and being raised without hatred is part of the answer, but so much racism within all races still exists, I don't see a lot of hope in the near future. However, it can be controlled on the job. Joan -- From: William J. Foristal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 12:08 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Joan, I agree with you completely! There was also some disturbing evidence that showed some racist comments over the police radio. This is the kind of foolish behavior that must be eliminated also. Bill On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:57:44 -0400 "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Kathy, I recall your post about LAPD training. Hopefully it has improved with time and with the exposure that police force has received. I believe when it is necessary to subdue a prisoner attempting to avoid capture or to escape or to prevent that individual from harming someone, then force must be used. I believe King needed to be subdued as he did not succumb to capture willingly. The line appears to be at what point King was under control and how much physical force was still used when it was unnecessary. I believe there was abuse and that was wrong. On the other hand, I do not excuse King for the part he played. Had he not behaved as he did, a high speed chase would have been avoided and had he not resisted arrest and attacked the officers, no force would have been necessary. However, I certainly distinguish between necessary force and abuse. Abuse is not acceptable on the part of the criminal or the police. I understand your point. :) Joan -- From: Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LI Back Home Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 1:16 PM Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan :) I disagree with you :) If you remember a couple of years ago I stated that the problem was in the training of the LAPD according to their training they were following the procedures used at the time. OTOH that does not lift the responsibility off of the officers and what they did, nor does it lift the responsibility off of RK and what he did. Joan Moyer wrote: "Joan Moyer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Vi, Glad the surgery was successful. I had a house on the market once for a year and it was a real worry since I had bought another. Glad to read your posts. We are probably the only 2 who believe King had to be subdued and the officers were not totally at fault. Joan -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800)
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: HI Sue, And King was not armed. Glad to hear they used the tape to show what NOT to do. It certainly is a good example of it. The sad part is that the female CHP officer had the situation well in hand before the LAPD showed up and decided to have a beating party. It seems obvious that this sort of behavior was common practice for some cops and had it not been for the video tape they would have gotten away with this one too. I bet the good and honest cops are glad those rogue cops are finished in law enforcement. Bill On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:23:12 -0700 Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: They use the Rodney King tape as a training tool to show what not to do now. So that in itself tells me that the cops didn't handle the situation right. At the beginning of the tape it shows King on the ground a few times, and getting up. But it also show about 8 or more cops standing around. Seems like there were more than enough cops there to subdue him without beating him. In fact one of the cops actually is shown with his foot on Kings neck, and still hitting him with a stick. Then the one with the foot on the neck, kicked him. Sue HI Sue, I agree with you and Kathy on this one, to a certain extent. I doubt if the LAPD training taught cops to continue to beat a perp once he was subdued and posed no threat to them or anyone else. And certainly Rodney King was to blame for much of what happened. He failed to stop when ordered to do so and failed to follow instructions initially when he finally got out of the car. He was under the influence of alcohol. However, in no way can we as a society choose to ignore the blame of the police officers in this incident. I'm the first to admit that these cops have an extremely difficult job to do. That is why they get such intensive and ongoing training in how to handle the situations they are likely to encounter. It is essential that they maintain control of their behavior 100% of the time. This is a tough task for situations where they may have seen a scumbag gun down one of their friends and then drop his weapon and raise his hands. The tempation to blow him away must be a tremendous one to resist. However, resist it they must. Just as they must resist the urge to beat the hell out of a guy who is subdued and helpless. Cops who choose not to resist this temptation make it so much more difficult for the majority of cops who do resist it. IMO, it doesn't matter what King was doing prior to the time he was subdued and helpless lying on the ground. (And let's not try to kid ourselves. The tape we saw showed clearly and undeniably that he WAS subdued and helpless). The choice those cops made to continue to beat the hell out of King, and to give in to their frustrations and anger, was a choice that was wrong and that demanded a response of punishment under the same law these guys were sworn to uphold. Anything less than this would create a society that admits that some people are above the law and that crime is defined not by what is done but also by who does it. It is ironic, IMO, that law and order people who talk long and loud about people being responsible for their actions and paying the price for their actions when they are against the law would be so quick to try to defend the cops in this situation and say that they were merely doing their jobs. These cops lost their careers and had their lives ruined because of THEIR actions and THEIR choices. Just like a drug user loses a career and ruins his life because of HIS choices. To condemn the druggie and support the cops is the height of hypocrisy, IMO. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sue and Jackie, It may just be a peculiarity of Jackie's insurance company. Or maybe it is regional. We have a German Shepherd pup that will not raise our rates. If we had a pit bull it would not either but I am told if we lived in New York City rather than upstate we would pay dearly for insurance on a pit bull because of the New York City ordinances. I would guess Jackie's neighbors don't like dogs. I have never had trouble with pit bulls. Unlike, say, dobermans they always seemed quite friendly. Dobermans (and chows) are hard to read. Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jackie: It must be a state thing, because we have a Chow with an attitude. They are rated up there as being not too nice with outsiders, and we don't pay extra on the insurance for her. In fact I don't even remember being asked if we had a dog or not. Sue Hi Ron That is because you don't have one of the guard breeds. We are automatically jumped up for insurance just because of the breed--doesn't matter if they are trained or anything. They might bite a robber so therefore we pay more. We can't list them as an alarm system even though our system works before the robber enters :( jackief Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Good guess, Ron, but wrong. Don't worry -- you get two more. Doc Oh, I did not intend that as a guess at why you have none :-). My first guess would be an umbilical herniorrhaphy. Now I still have two guesses left :-) Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Terry was just saying that in pictures of the family, Sydney looked very protective of her father. Much more, Sue. It was reported that Sydney would not visit the Browns when Justin did, that she was particularly vehement in saying that OJ was innocent. You may recall that Justin even wrote the odd play with his father as a killer. Justin probably was better protected by age - and gender. I don't know if she has slimmed back down but Sydney was putting on a lot of weight and there was speculation (perhaps totally empty) that it may have had to do with her mental condition. The kids have to have undergone enormous stress from playmates. Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Goodbye, My Little Ones
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has anyone heard of two cases of mass baby killings: Marybeth Tinning killed nine of her babies and got away with it for 14 years, and Waneta Hoyt killed five of her babies and got away with it until the DA finally exposed her. I just found two books that tell of these Goodbye, My Little Ones is about the Hoyt babies, and From Cradle to Grave is about the Tinning babies. I don't have the books but was wondering if anyone else had heard about these cases. Sue -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
"Yvonne " [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't know if you've all heard the latest scuttle. A "reliable source" faxed the local KABC radio talk station early this a.m. Purported story is that the Simpson family has hired Mr Johnny to defend Arnelle. The proactive defense will be that the entire LAPD is out to get Simpson, Arnelle was not the driver so now prove your case. -Original Message- From: Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 2:08 PM Subject: Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: I was commenting on what Simpson said the other day, about the kids never asking or mentioning their mother's death. According to him they haven't said a word, and he hasn't said anything to them. But he also said (during the custody hearings) that the Brown's had been filling their heads with lies, saying that he killed their mother and trying to turn them against him. Terry was just saying that in pictures of the family, Sydney looked very protective of her father. As far as I know the kids have never said anything at all to the media. I just feel that the kids know what is going on. Especially Sydney with her computer. Sue Hi Sue, I'm a bit confused here. When did anyone actually speak to Sydney and report what she said to the media? And the media has certainly not been allowed to speak to her, have they? It seems that all we have are the statements from biased family members, either the Simpsons or the Browns. I don't see how anyone can conclude anything from this with respect to what she really knows or believes. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: I had not heard that she wouldn't go over to the Browns. I did hear about Justin's play though. :( I saw pictures of Sydney the other day when Simpson was taking that interviewer around town. They couldn't get into a restaurant to eat so they just drove around. Anyway, he took her over to see Sydney play soccer at school. She is still very much overweight. When asked if the kids at school say anything at all to Justin or Sydney about the murders, Simpson said no, that they never have said anything to them at all. They then proceeded to go down to the beach and walk around. One person was yelling "murderer" at Simpson, and another (a woman) came up to shake his had, as she said, "I just wanted to shake your hand, I have never shook the hand of a murderer before." He thanked her and just kept grinning and walking. When the interviewer asked if that bothered him. He said no. With this going on in their lives, daily, these kids are going to have a very hard time growing up, IMO. Sue Much more, Sue. It was reported that Sydney would not visit the Browns when Justin did, that she was particularly vehement in saying that OJ was innocent. You may recall that Justin even wrote the odd play with his father as a killer. Justin probably was better protected by age - and gender. I don't know if she has slimmed back down but Sydney was putting on a lot of weight and there was speculation (perhaps totally empty) that it may have had to do with her mental condition. The kids have to have undergone enormous stress from playmates. Best, Terry -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: Chows are very unpredictable dogs I agree. I don't have any problem with the one that I have, nor the one before her, but I certainly would never suggest one as a pet to anyone. She as well, as her predecessor, is a one person dog. She will tolerate others, but just don't push it. Pit Bulls on the other hand, I wouldn't trust at all. We have had too many Pit Bulls right here in the city attack people without warning or cause and do some horrible damage up to and including death. Dobermans, I don't know that much about. But I do know that my dad was terrified of them. I have a feeling though that went back to WWII and Germany. German Shepherds are big babies. I grew up around them, and never had any problems with them whatsoever. I honestly think the temperament of a dog is determined by it's owner. A little genetics, and a lot of environment. :) Sue Hi Sue and Jackie, It may just be a peculiarity of Jackie's insurance company. Or maybe it is regional. We have a German Shepherd pup that will not raise our rates. If we had a pit bull it would not either but I am told if we lived in New York City rather than upstate we would pay dearly for insurance on a pit bull because of the New York City ordinances. I would guess Jackie's neighbors don't like dogs. I have never had trouble with pit bulls. Unlike, say, dobermans they always seemed quite friendly. Dobermans (and chows) are hard to read. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Gotta Love the HMO's
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron: I was in on the ground floor of the HMO thing. It started out as a great idea, but within a year there were problems. I know some really good docs that have left medicine because of this thing. In fact one that was really good left the country to practice in Mexico. HMO's screw patients, and docs. Sue As you probably know, I was "downsized" by a large staff model HMO ( 900 docs working for Group Health, now Group Health Permanente ). I had the lowest C-section rate, did absolutely no unnecessary surgery, and was the most "cost-effective" provider in the department. They systematically fired the three male doctors, including me, with the highest salaries, based on the longest seniority. Then they could afford more young doctors who had just finished their residencies, and hire them for a much lower salary. I got a labor relations attorney, and just the threat of a age/gender discrimination suit got me a very nice severance package ( the amount I am sworn never to reveal). Ron -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron: There is something here that is getting lost. She admitted to have killed them. She confessed to smothering them. Then took back her confession. Sue Of course she killed them, why would she confess if she hadn't. Just like that "Angel of Mercy" nurse confessed to killing all those patients, but the authorities can not just accept a confession. Sheesh. Uncoerced confessions, if Miranda Rights read, should be accepted and taken directly to a sentencing hearing. Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
"Ronald Helm" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nothing in any of the stories I read mentioned scopes. Perhaps the accuracy was more a function of how closely the kids were clustered together and the shooting was more directional than aimed. Bill Initial reports mentioned a 30.06 with a scope being used in Jonesboro, but I have seen nothing since the first day. The media around here sure lost interest rapidly. Ron 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just for the record, Sue. German shepherds have killed more kids than any other dog I have read, far more than pit bulls. It could be because they are so common but I would also attribute it to their willingness to run in packs. I think pit bulls suffer more from a bad press than a mean disposition. Temperament is largely a matter of genetics but I agree that a dog can be mean or gentle more depending on the owner than genetics. Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: Chows are very unpredictable dogs I agree. I don't have any problem with the one that I have, nor the one before her, but I certainly would never suggest one as a pet to anyone. She as well, as her predecessor, is a one person dog. She will tolerate others, but just don't push it. Pit Bulls on the other hand, I wouldn't trust at all. We have had too many Pit Bulls right here in the city attack people without warning or cause and do some horrible damage up to and including death. Dobermans, I don't know that much about. But I do know that my dad was terrified of them. I have a feeling though that went back to WWII and Germany. German Shepherds are big babies. I grew up around them, and never had any problems with them whatsoever. I honestly think the temperament of a dog is determined by it's owner. A little genetics, and a lot of environment. :) Sue Hi Sue and Jackie, It may just be a peculiarity of Jackie's insurance company. Or maybe it is regional. We have a German Shepherd pup that will not raise our rates. If we had a pit bull it would not either but I am told if we lived in New York City rather than upstate we would pay dearly for insurance on a pit bull because of the New York City ordinances. I would guess Jackie's neighbors don't like dogs. I have never had trouble with pit bulls. Unlike, say, dobermans they always seemed quite friendly. Dobermans (and chows) are hard to read. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues Best, Terry "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI New Trial for the list, locally tried
Kathy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all :) Today a new trial started here in Virginia Beach, I will be covering it for the list, the reason I am interested in this is I live about 6 minutes from Regent University which is a law school here in VA that is owned by Pat Robertson, recently it was announced CBN layed off 600 people, doing a bit of investigating, I see the reason to be due to the trial that started today, Pat Robertson is being sued for libel. The short history of this case is, back in 1994 Robertson fired the Dean of Regent Univ. several of the professors at Regent wrote letters of protest, Robertson wrote a letter back accusing them of having "third rate minds" evidently that started the ball rolling and some of their careers were ruined. Robertson is now being sued for $10 million dollars. I will do a more detailed summary of this tonight for the list :) -- Kathy E "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow isn't looking too good for you either" http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law Issues Mailing List http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Also Great for Slugs and Mushrooms
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Ron, Sorry about that, but I get them too. The monitor screen goes blank after I have been typing and I'm not allowed to mail a message. I live with a benign but mischievious ghost I call " RC," so I blame it on him." :) Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: Vi: I never understand these blank posts which I get about weekly ;-) _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Kathy, Joan and Biill, The police department sets the standards as to what is or is not the correct policy for their officers when subduing a felon. It is my understanding that the behavior of the police in the Rodney King arrest fell within those policy guidelines. As for the "gorillas in the mist" comment, this was not meant for public scrutiny . They didn't intend for it to be taken seriously and if you want them to change then yiou better change human nature. In my Anthropology course, we were taught that all human beings are critical of people different from themselves (even geographically). It is called SCAPEGOATING and ALL humans do it, according to field studies. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ Bill wrote: . . .There was also some disturbing evidence that showed some racist comments over the police radio. This is the kind of foolish behavior that must be eliminated also. _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI The Rodney King Beating - The Other Story part two
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Bill, Seems to me they paid for NOT breaking the law. Just as Rodney King was the law-breaker, it is the cops that got tried and went to jail. Ole Rodney ended up smelling like a rose, a millionaire free to continue his dissolute lifestyle. This is all too typical of alf our topsy-turvy times Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: . . .I"m sure King and the cops DO know exactly what went down. And they all paid for breaking the law. _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
"Mike" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Ron, Just saw your post about your "downsizing" experience, and realized that I was explaining things to someone who already knows far more than I about genetics. Sorry 'bout that. TTFN Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Terry: What I would love to hear, and hope they televise this one so I can, is how in the world Cochran is possibly going to explain away the guy coming immediately out of his smashed in house and talking to Arnelle who was behind the wheel of *her* car. Also how is he going to explain away her "injuries" that magically, managed to keep her from being booked into county jail because she "required" hospitalization. BTW did anyone happen to notice who her doc was. None other than Dr. Robert Huizenga. BEG I bet I know how he is going to explain the BA tests that they must have run when she was admitted to the hospital though. I just hope Dennis Fung didn't draw the blood. Or that Vannatter wasn't the lab courier. BG Sue Nope. According to the scuttle, Cochran says it wasn't Arnelle. And furthermore, Arnelle wasn't drunk. So, the call is out now for the person who was behind the driver's seat. Ahhh. The Real Killer returns. :-} -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Welcome to two members
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Mike and Kelly, Faith and Begorra it's good to have a couple of Irish come aboard.! Enjoy your e-mail and we know you'll give as good as ya get! Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ Kathy wrote: . . . Please welcome Mike and Kelly to the law list :) _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Sue, Now whose being funny? :)) Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: I bet I know how he is going to explain the BA tests that they must have run when she was admitted to the hospital though. I just hope Dennis Fung didn't draw the blood. Or that Vannatter wasn't the lab courier. BG _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Godmom Slapped With Gun Violation
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Godmom Slapped With Gun Violation GREENSBORO, N.C. (AP) -- The godmother of a little boy who was shot to death by a playmate on his sixth birthday was charged Monday with failing to keep a gun out of the hands of children. Carlos Gilmer was shot in the neck Saturday with a .38-caliber pistol that he and a 4-year-old playmate had found in an unattended purse. Neighbors said the two boys liked to play with toy guns and apparently didn't understand the gun they found was real. Beulah Lindsay could receive a maximum of two years in jail if convicted of the misdemeanor charge of failing to secure a weapon. In addition to being Carlos' godmother, she is the 4-year-old's grandmother. The pistol's ammunition clip had been removed but there was a round in the chamber, said Detective Geneva McIntyre. Ms. Lindsay said she thought the weapon had been properly disarmed, the detective said. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
LI Starr Gets Lewinsky's Credit Record
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Starr Gets Lewinsky's Credit Record WASHINGTON (AP) -- Whitewater prosecutors have obtained the credit records of former White House intern Monica Lewinsky and four other people in the investigation, an attorney for a credit reporting agency said Monday. Turned over under subpoena to a federal grand jury in the Lewinsky probe, the records are those of Ms. Lewinsky, her mother Marcia Lewis, former White House volunteer Kathleen Willey, Maryland developer Nathan Landow and a former friend of Willey, Julie Steele. Oscar Marquis, general counsel for Trans Union Corp., confirmed the credit reporting service's cooperation with the investigation. The Legal Times first reported the surrendering of the credit records. Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr has been investigating whether Clinton had a sexual relationship with Ms. Lewinsky and then urged her to lie about it. Clinton has denied the allegations. Starr also is investigating whether Landow tried to influence Mrs. Willey's testimony in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case against the president, something Landow denies. Mrs. Willey has accused Clinton of making an unwanted sexual advance inside the White House, which the president denies. Ms. Steele contends Mrs. Willey asked her to lie to a reporter about the alleged overture. House Speaker Newt Gingrich said the Clinton administration's claim of privilege in the Whitewater investigation is on far weaker legal ground than President Nixon was when he was forced to surrender the tapes in the Watergate scandal. ``Richard Nixon lost this argument in court and he didn't go anywhere near as far as President Clinton suggested,'' Gingrich told the Atlanta Rotary Club. ``It violates every principle. It is dangerous, not just shameful.'' In Watergate, the Supreme Court rejected Nixon's argument that executive privilege protected tape-recordings of Oval Office conversations with his aides. Whitewater prosecutors want to question Secret Service officers protecting the president about Clinton's relationship with Ms. Lewinsky. But officials from the Treasury Department, which oversees the Secret Service, and the Justice Department argue that unless agents can be barred from testifying, future presidents will not allow them close enough to provide effective protection. Treasury and Justice officials say Starr can be prohibited from questioning the Secret Service officers without Clinton himself making a claim of privilege. On a separate matter, the White House refused to comment on whether Hillary Rodham Clinton declined to answer some questions asked of her in a five-hour videotaped deposition Saturday. A White House spokesman referred questions to the first lady's Whitewater lawyer, David Kendall, who did not return a phone call. -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI One of the Quads just died
DocCec [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 98-04-27 21:11:26 EDT, you write: One of the quads born in SD to the 55 year old woman just died. A little girl weighing 10.5 oz just died. The mother was released today. The rest of the babies are still in ICU in critical condition. I thought it was the boy who weighed less than a pound, and the girls were three pounds or so apiece. Now I'm totally confused! Doc Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI One of the Quads just died
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Doc: I'm confused too. :) But that is just what CBS/LA announced. The hospital isn't giving any information, so the information that the media is getting may be more confused that you and I are. Sue I thought it was the boy who weighed less than a pound, and the girls were three pounds or so apiece. Now I'm totally confused! Doc -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI One of the Quads just died
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Doc, I don't approve of what she did, but if she loses her brood after what she went through to have them I'm going to feel sympathy for her with her broken hopes and dreams. Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ You wrote: . . . The rest of the babies are still in ICU in critical condition. _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: LI Noe: Update]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: Hi Doc, You guys are killing me with your funny sayins! Vi __ You wrote: . . . I've never really had a belly button, innie or outie. Surely that makes me a deprived child, doesn't it, and excuses any awful things I do in future? Vi "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. __ _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI One of the Quads just died
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Vi: I totally agree. What is done is done. And to have anything happen to those babies now would be heartbreaking for any mother. :) Sue Hi Doc, I don't approve of what she did, but if she loses her brood after what she went through to have them I'm going to feel sympathy for her with her broken hopes and dreams. Vi -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan: I think that is what really was so sad about all of that trial. How innocent people were dragged through the mud. I believe that the family not only knew, but that Simpson himself may have told some of the members of the family what happened. What they did to Ron Shipp alone was totally uncalled for. Sue Hello Vi, I agree. I believe the family knew Simpson was guilty. It's possible some knew but couldn't face the outcome if he were found guilty. I can understand a family being protective. I do not excuse the Simpson family for blaming others. They made some pretty strong statements about the police and others being at fault. I don't think they really cared about Nicole or Ron, only themselves. Also, they cried racism and yet were guarded by Nation of Islam. Joan -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Back Home
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Joan: A while back I found the radio transmission on the web, but I can't remember now where it was that I found it. I do remember that there was something about "gorillas" in it, but can't remember the rest of it. Sue Hello Bill, Despite the fact that old habits die slowly, as they say :), professional behavior must prevail. I don't recall hearing of the racist comments made on the police radio, but there is no room for such comments over the radio or anywhere in the workplace. Can't control people in their homes or other private areas. I guess education and being raised without hatred is part of the answer, but so much racism within all races still exists, I don't see a lot of hope in the near future. However, it can be controlled on the job. Joan -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Attachment Disorder was LI Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Vi: Geeze what happened to the kid? Did he just live on the streets or was he put into some kind of institution? Sue Hi Jackie and Sue, I saw a case on TV that would fit this description. A nice, wholesome famiily adopted a baby boy who,despite all the love and care they bestowed on him, grew into a monster. He set their house on fire and otherwise made their lives miserable to the point they were afraid of him. It got so bad they kicked him out post puberty and moved fom the town where they had all lived. To this day they live in fear of their lives if the adopted son ever finds out where they are. Vi -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Arnelle Simpson arrested
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Vi: What is so sad about this whole thing is the fact that Simpson could have cared less about his family before this happened, and the same being true since he was released from jail. He never visited any of them, nor sent them money or anything. What a guy. TIC Sue Hi Joan, Pardon the intrusion, but I have absolutely no doubt that every member of the Simpson family knew OJ was guilty. The older daughter lived in the guest house on Rockingham and must have known exactly what was going on. Even OJ's mother exclaimed as soon as she heard the news of Nicole"s death on TV. "OJ killed her!" I'm also certain that the family claimd he was innocent to spare him from time in prison and loss of income from the bad publicity that would ensue if they did otherwise. Vi -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Welcome to two members
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Mike and Kelly: Welcome to the list, and jump in anytime. I know you will enjoy it here. Sue Kathy wrote: Please welcome Mike and Kelly to the law list :) -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Justice
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Sody: A district attorney, the other night on Nightline, said that the law and prison aren't about rehabilitation. They are about justice and punishment. Sue Bill : How can you justify putting anyone in a cell for twenty five years?? I see no sense in our present system of criminal justice. Prisons if you must have them should be a sincere effort to reform the individual and getting him back as a productive member of society. If that is not possible than dispose of him so that he is no longer a burden on society. I can't imagine anything more horrible that sentencing a young person ( or an old person either) to Life Without Parole, really Life Without Hope.. On one hand we talk of assisted suicide and euthanasia as a relief for such a life and on the other condemn people to that very thing in the justice system. Someone suggested twenty five years for a thirteen year old. In jail until thirty eight?? What kind of a person will he be and what kind of life will he be able to lead?? I guess I am the Dr. Kevorkian of law and order. The dirty old Gandy Dancer -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: LI Ex-Miss America apologizes to first lady over alleged one-night
Sue Hartigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Bill: Well they aren't going to get this one. She left the country and is in hiding until this thing is over. Even if they do find her, she said, in a phone call to Jane Pauley they can't subpoena her where she is anyway. Sue Hi Sue, Yeah, with friends like that who needs Republicans. BG This is a good example of something that has no relevance with respect to any evidence that Clinton broke the law. And is a good example of something that people SHOULD be embarrassed about releasing to the public or investigating in any way. Bill -- Two rules in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know. 2. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
