subject:"\[LegacyUG\] Location names for Pennsylvania"

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-23 Thread Jenny M Benson


On 04/08/2019 02:22, Anne Hildrum wrote:

Well isn't CA an Acronym.


No!  It's an abbreviation.  An acronym is initial letters which are 
commonly pronounced as a word, such as RIN.


--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-07 Thread sarrazingeorges

In the French group, we faced this kind of problem many years ago. In addition,
there was the problem of GPS location errors for France and the indication of
departments were missing. Only administrative regions were indicated and these
regions were erroneous since the restructuring of the regions by the French
government.

We redid everything for France, Belgium and Québec (Our approach has also been
used by the Portuguese group) and took the opportunity to use indicators after
the name of a place to clarify what it was.

For example, we use parentheses after the name of a place to indicate a parish.

Tilbury East {Chatham-Kent} (Saint-Pierre), Kent, Ontario, Canada

We use location names as they exist in the old documents. Curley brackets are
added to indicate the current name.

Tilbury East {Chatham-Kent} (Saint-Pierre), Kent, Ontario, Canada

The list of places therefore contains two or more entries for certain places -
A reference with the old name and another with the new name.

In some cases, it is necessary to specify the nature of a place - island, cape,
etc. Brackets are used.

Texas [State], United States

Sarthe [Département], Pays de la Loire, France

This system works very well for us and meets the criteria for referencing a
place.

I mention our experience as an example, hoping that some of our solutions can
serve as suggestions.

Georges

De : LegacyUserGroup De la part de
Christopher Seward Sr.
Envoyé : 7 août 2019 08:42
À : legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Just an interjection - the standard is that the last 4 fields of the location
are "city, county, state, country". It s also standard to use other data in
front of those 4 (e.g. neighborhood, school district, etc). It's the last 4
that location services look at.

On 8/6/2019 10:26 PM, Jerry wrote:

In my opinion, we should be cognizant of the fact our records are going to be
seen all over the globe. Therefore, IN would never be acceptable to me - just
my opinion. And by utilizing

, , Indiana, United States(of America not needed, but USA is also
an abbreviation and should be avoided, in my opinion, and easy to fix with a
FIND AND REPLACE in Legacy.)

This allows the index system to PERFECTLY sort your records by every criteria
(city, county, state, country) or equivalent. Without this consistency, you
will never get well designed indices (indexes) for your records, particularly
if you have a website. Thanks for listening!

Jerry Boor
https://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org

On 08/03/2019 15:07, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

What does not make sense is seeing something like: , , , Indiana, United
States of America. when a simple IN would do. Or: , , , Berlin, Democratic
Republic of Germany. You can find whatever available record in Berlin today
regardless if it was Prussia, Imperial Germany, Natzi Germany, East Germany or
West Germany or Occupied American Sector, French Sector, or British Sector, or
Federal Rpublic of Germany. This junk belongs in the notes not in the primary
entry.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎22‎:‎00‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Christopher
Seward Sr <mailto:csewar...@gmail.com> wrote:

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling data
in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity issues.
As I said, the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues it will
cause for those who come after.

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
wrote:

Exactly my point. Putting historical location in the notes maintains all the
information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family members. If
people import information without looking at the notes, then they are not being
a good genealogist. It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not
for reliable and useful information to share.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff
mailto:bh...@mchsi.com> > wrote:

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many relatives
in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state until June 20,
1863. On top of that many counties within the state were divided over many
years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there is the problem of
knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. mailto:csewar...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-07 Thread Holly Nelson

 than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of 
>>> one heritage, but was actually another.
>>> 
>>> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current 
>>> name of the location in the notes.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to 
>>> know where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history, 
>>> and those who know their history, already know what the original name is.  
>>> Looking for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they 
>>> once were  governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.  
>>> Otherwise, we would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.
>>> 
>>> Hoosierly yours,
>>> 
>>> James G. Hermsen
>>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>>> 
>>> 317-679-1466 cell
>>> 317-881-4600 land line
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, 
>>> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in 
>>> the documentation.
>>> 
>>> If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly 
>>> brackets with the new name after the old name.
>>> 
>>> Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de 
>>> Loire, France
>>> 
>>> (Note : I use 5 fields)
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Georges
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part 
>>> de James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
>>> Envoyé : 1 août 2019 09:26
>>> À : mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup 
>>> Cc : James G. Hermsen 
>>> Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry 
>>> and in the notes, remark that the geographic name and country was different 
>>> then than it is today.  That way when a grandchild (or anyone) wants to 
>>> find the place on a map is able to do so.  Prussia is very hard to find, if 
>>> you did not know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name 
>>> has changed.  Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after 
>>> the Cold War.   Peking vs. Bejing.  Same thing.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Hoosierly yours,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> James G. Hermsen
>>> 
>>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>>> 
>>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 317-679-1466 cell
>>> 
>>> 317-881-4600 land line
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, mvmcgrs--- 
>>> via LegacyUserGroup  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I hope you are not inserting the the added information if it is not in the 
>>> document.  The jurisdictions change over time. In the US what was a county 
>>> in 1850 may be another county in 1860 and still another county by 1870. The 
>>> house did not move but the boundaries did.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Marie
>>> 
>>> Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus
>>> __ __ __
>>> CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for 
>>> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified 
>>> genealogists after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is 
>>> registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>>> wrlinh...@gmail.com writes:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I do agree.  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> My standard is:   [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township, village, 
>>> city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country 
>>> 
>>> and apply to other countries similarly by always using three commas for all 
>>> locations [usually each has a repository of genealogical data] .  The entry 
>>> might betwe

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-07 Thread Christopher Seward Sr.

r...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is
indicated in the documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use
curly brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher,
Centre-Val de Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> *De la part de*
James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
*Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 09:26
*À :* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup

<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>
*Cc :* James G. Hermsen
<mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com>
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

I always use the current geographic location and name today in
each entry and in the notes, remark that the geographic name and
country was different then than it is today. That way when a
grandchild (or anyone) wants to find the place on a map is able
to do so. Prussia is very hard to find, if you did not know
where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has
changed. Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born
after the Cold War. Peking vs. Bejing. Same thing.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,
mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

I hope you are not inserting the the added information if it is
not in the document. The jurisdictions change over time. In the
US what was a county in 1850 may be another county in 1860 and
still another county by 1870. The house did not move but the
boundaries did.

Marie

Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus
__ __ __
CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for
Certification of Genealogists, used under license by
Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency
evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent &
Trademark Office.

In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wrlinh...@gmail.com <mailto:wrlinh...@gmail.com> writes:

I do agree.

My standard is: [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township,
village, city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country

and apply to other countries similarly by always using three
commas for all locations [usually each has a repository of
genealogical data] . The entry might between comma's might be
null if I don't have the information. For example born in USA
might be ", , , USA". I know I have some research to do but I
only record what I have from that source.

For folder hierarchy and some naming situations I reverse the
order but always hold to 4 elements for location. I don't
believe I have ever had an exception. I am sure I will learn
about one here. So far this works for me.

Bill

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm
mailto:robertaschw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I do the same thing, Shirley. Most of my ancestors are from
Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany and a spattering of
French. The only difference is I use "province" instead of
State.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton
mailto:scshenders...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I use Village, County, State, Country. Hopefully there is
no more than 1 village of the same name in the County. If
the place is rural then I put the name of the township in
the first position.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach
mailto:bluecorab...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Trying to decide how to input the location names – I
have townships that are made up of villages and
boroughs. How are others handling it?

I have thought of the following:

Village, township, county, state, United States

township-village, country, state, United States (I
like this as all villages within the township would
be listed together)

Thank you, Connie.

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-07 Thread Christopher Seward Sr.

Jerry,

Great idea. However, I would offer one change to your suggestion.
Since the standard Location field IS the Historic location, an alternate
location field called "Present Day Location" or "Modern Location" would
solve the issue you bring up without changing the standard that is now
in place. Your suggestion would require that, in order to make data
interchangeable, everyone who currently follows the standard would have
to update their already published data.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if the modern name changes, it
would require additional updates to keep the data current.

Christopher

On 8/6/2019 10:17 PM, Jerry wrote:

I know some people are diehard at using only historical location
names, but if you use a website as we do, your location indices are
going to look like a jumbled mess. If you ALWAYS use a totally
standard location scheme such as Legacy recommends (city, county,
state, country) or equivalent four-location fields, you are going to
have a really good and easy to follow index system.

If you insist on using the historic location and you are concerned
persons will miss adjacent NOTES stating the historical changes in
names or jurisdictions, then why not use an *ALTERNATE LOCATION NAME*
(call it Historic Location or whatever)? That way both location names
are automatically included without a person having to look up a note
that might not automatically appear.

Jerry Boor
https://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org

On 08/03/2019 09:42, sarrazingeor...@gmail.com wrote:

Christopher

I agree with you.

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets
after the referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate
old location name into present day name and it is accepted by the
different Gedcom programs.

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup *De
la part de* Christopher Seward Sr

*Envoyé :* 3 août 2019 09:21
*À :* Legacy User Group
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that
handling data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting
data integrity issues. As I said, the choice is yours. Just be aware
of the lasting issues it will cause for those who come after.

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

Exactly my point. Putting historical location in the notes
maintains all the information one needs and still be sensible and
useful to family members. If people import information without
looking at the notes, then they are not being a good genealogist.
It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not for
reliable and useful information to share.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill
Hoff mailto:bh...@mchsi.com>> wrote:

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With
many relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not
become a state until June 20, 1863. On top of that many counties
within the state were divided over many years, far too many for
me to recall them all. Then there is the problem of knowing
locations but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr.
mailto:csewar...@gmail.com>> wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if
you publish & share this information, your method goes against
the standard, and can cause issues.

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file. I
kept getting import errors stating the the location (birth place)
did not exist on that date (birth date). Now I have an issue,
since this place not only didn't exist when this person was born,
but when it did exist, it was in a different country than when he
was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting
the current name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes. Most people I share my information with
want to know where the place is now. They, like Trump, have no
regard for history, and those who know their history, already
know what the original name is. Looking for documents, the
current place will know what jurisdiction they once were governed
by. It is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise,
we would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-06 Thread Jerry

Scott, I agree with you about using the word Township (although we do 
abbreviate it as Twp consistently because it is well understood in 
America, but I get your point).  I probably will re-visit this and use a 
FIND and REPLACE to change the abbreviation from Twp to spelling out 
Township).


I did want to mention one thing more:  I live in Michigan and for the 
last number of years, Townships that do not share same names with 
villages or cities are beginning to completely omit the Township 
description in mailing and most of their records, except for their 
official records, apparently). *For example, all mail delivered to 
Shelby Township, Michigan simply now says Shelby, Michigan.*


Jerry Boor
https://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org

On 08/04/2019 10:52, Scott Hall wrote:
I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place 
names to be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.


First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at 
the time of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the 
historic address in the notes have an interesting alternative, but 
it's not the preferred method as place names (even modern ones) can 
change.


But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I 
discovered a challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a 
larger administrative division.  For example, in Lycoming County, 
there is both Muncy Township, and Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the 
borough, is part of Muncy Creek Township, not Muncy Township.  This is 
far from an isolated case -- numerous counties in Pennsylvania have a 
township and a borough with the same name that are separate 
administrative divisions and where the borough is not located within 
the township.


Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I 
understand it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. 
are not recorded unless officially part of the name.  Even New York 
City should be recorded as "New York" with the appropriate county (New 
York, Bronx, Richmond, etc.) recorded--but that's a different discussion.


Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says 
"Muncy", which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you 
know it's the Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, 
Lycoming, Pennsylvania, USA -- but if you do, when you (or someone 
else) comes back to it -- which Muncy did you mean?


So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" 
in the record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, 
USA".  And, of course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- 
"Muncy Borough, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if 
Muncy was a city?  Would I enter "Muncy City, Lycoming County, 
Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy (city), Lycoming County, 
Pennsylvania, USA"? I'd prefer not.


Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I 
found that they are the one entity that tends to bear the same name as 
another administrative division.  But in much of the northeast, like 
New York, there are no townships, only towns, which often have 
villages or cities bearing the same name contained within them (e.g. 
Canandaigua is a city wholly contained with the Town of Canandaigua).  
While in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, or much of the midwest 
people may refer to a township by saying the word "township", in New 
York they certainly don't.  No one says Canandaigua town, nor 
Canandaigua city.  So, same problem.


This latter issue is less significant than the Pennsylvania problem, 
though, as at least one entity is contained with another.  But, in 
Pennsylvania, as I pointed out, they do not always bear this relationship.


Thoughts?

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach > wrote:


Trying to decide how to input the location names – I have
townships that are made up of villages and boroughs. How are
others handling it?

I have thought of the following:

Village, township, county, state, United States

or

township-village, country, state, United States (I like this as
 all villages within the township would be listed together)

Thank you, Connie.

Sent from Mail 
for Windows 10

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-06 Thread Jerry

mail.com>
<mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is
indicated in the documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use
curly brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher,
Centre-Val de Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> *De la part de*
James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
*Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 09:26
*À :* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup

<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>
*Cc :* James G. Hermsen
<mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com>
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,
mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

Marie

In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wrlinh...@gmail.com <mailto:wrlinh...@gmail.com> writes:

I do agree.

My standard is: [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township,
village, city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country

Bill

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm
mailto:robertaschw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I do the same thing, Shirley. Most of my ancestors are from
Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany and a spattering of
French. The only difference is I use "province" instead of
State.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton
mailto:scshenders...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I use Village, County, State, Country. Hopefully there is
no more than 1 village of the same name in the County. If
the place is rural then I put the name of the township in
the first position.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach
mailto:bluecorab...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Trying to decide how to input the location names – I
have townships that are made up of villages and
boroughs. How are others handling it?

I have thought of the following:

Village, township, county, state, United States

township-village, country, state, United States (I
like this as all villages within the township would
be listed together)

Thank you, Connie.

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-06 Thread Jerry

Cher,
Centre-Val de Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> *De la part de*
James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
*Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 09:26
*À :* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup

<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>
*Cc :* James G. Hermsen
<mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com>
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

I always use the current geographic location and name today in
each entry and in the notes, remark that the geographic name and
country was different then than it is today. That way when a
grandchild (or anyone) wants to find the place on a map is able to
do so. Prussia is very hard to find, if you did not know where to
look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has changed.
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after the
Cold War. Peking vs. Bejing. Same thing.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,
mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

I hope you are not inserting the the added information if it is
not in the document. The jurisdictions change over time. In the US
what was a county in 1850 may be another county in 1860 and still
another county by 1870. The house did not move but the boundaries did.

Marie

Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus
__ __ __
CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for
Certification of Genealogists, used under license by
Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation,
and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.

In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wrlinh...@gmail.com <mailto:wrlinh...@gmail.com> writes:

I do agree.

My standard is: [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township,
village, city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country

For folder hierarchy and some naming situations I reverse the
order but always hold to 4 elements for location. I don't believe
I have ever had an exception. I am sure I will learn about one
here. So far this works for me.

Bill

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm
mailto:robertaschw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I do the same thing, Shirley. Most of my ancestors are from
Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany and a spattering of
French. The only difference is I use "province" instead of State.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton
mailto:scshenders...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I use Village, County, State, Country. Hopefully there is
no more than 1 village of the same name in the County. If
the place is rural then I put the name of the township in
the first position.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach
mailto:bluecorab...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Trying to decide how to input the location names – I
have townships that are made up of villages and
boroughs. How are others handling it?

I have thought of the following:

Village, township, county, state, United States

township-village, country, state, United States (I
like this as all villages within the township would
be listed together)

Thank you, Connie.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-06 Thread Jerry

I know some people are diehard at using only historical location names,
but if you use a website as we do, your location indices are going to
look like a jumbled mess. If you ALWAYS use a totally standard location
scheme such as Legacy recommends (city, county, state, country) or
equivalent four-location fields, you are going to have a really good and
easy to follow index system.

If you insist on using the historic location and you are concerned
persons will miss adjacent NOTES stating the historical changes in names
or jurisdictions, then why not use an *ALTERNATE LOCATION NAME* (call it
Historic Location or whatever)? That way both location names are
automatically included without a person having to look up a note that
might not automatically appear.

Jerry Boor
https://www.MerriamFamilyTree.org

On 08/03/2019 09:42, sarrazingeor...@gmail.com wrote:

Christopher

I agree with you.

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after
the referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old
location name into present day name and it is accepted by the
different Gedcom programs.

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup *De la
part de* Christopher Seward Sr

*Envoyé :* 3 août 2019 09:21
*À :* Legacy User Group
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that
handling data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting
data integrity issues. As I said, the choice is yours. Just be aware
of the lasting issues it will cause for those who come after.

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

Exactly my point. Putting historical location in the notes
maintains all the information one needs and still be sensible and
useful to family members. If people import information without
looking at the notes, then they are not being a good genealogist.
It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not for
reliable and useful information to share.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill
Hoff mailto:bh...@mchsi.com>> wrote:

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With
many relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not
become a state until June 20, 1863. On top of that many counties
within the state were divided over many years, far too many for me
to recall them all. Then there is the problem of knowing locations
but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr.
mailto:csewar...@gmail.com>> wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you
publish & share this information, your method goes against the
standard, and can cause issues.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting
the current name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes. Most people I share my information with
want to know where the place is now. They, like Trump, have no
regard for history, and those who know their history, already know
what the original name is. Looking for documents, the current
place will know what jurisdiction they once were governed by. It
is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise, we would
all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com <mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com>
<mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is
indicated in the documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use
curly brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher,
Centre-Val de Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@lega

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-06 Thread Jenny M Benson


On 06-Aug-19 02:30 AM, CE WOOD wrote:
If you are posting in plain text, there is no way other than to use 
capitals for emphasis. There is no way to "bold", "underline", 
"highlight", et alia,  leaving capitals as the only option.


Actually that is not so.  The convention is to use *This* to indicate 
bold text or _this_ to indicate underlined text.


I apologise that this is off topic, but posted to the list in the hope 
that it will help avert misunderstandings and annoyance.


--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-06 Thread Mary Young

Off topic.

On Tue, 6 Aug 2019, 02:32 CE WOOD,  wrote:

> Returns? Do have dreams at night too?
>
> CE
>
>
> --
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup  on
> behalf of dwq...@gmail.com 
> *Sent:* Monday, August 5, 2019 5:55 AM
> *To:* 'Legacy User Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
> Andrew – You can still enter lat/long in Legacy.  I get them from Google
> Earth Pro.  That way they will be there when the geo-mapping feature
> returns.
>
>
>
> Don Quigley
>
> 1207 Huntington Lane
>
> Safety Harbor, FL 34695
>
> (H) 727-330-7030
>
> (M) 925-367-5609
>
> dwq...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup  *On
> Behalf Of *Andrew Robbie
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 4, 2019 11:32 PM
> *To:* 'Legacy User Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> One thing that would really, really help here is Legacy resurrecting their
> geo-mapping feature.  Lat/Long never lies…  Forget excuses about this API
> or that API changing.  Just fix it.
>
>
>
> J
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup  *On
> Behalf Of *Elizabeth Lindsay
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:48 PM
> *To:* 'Legacy User Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> Unless your research is always going to be limited to only one country, it
> is really helpful to use the full name whenever possible.
>
> Throughout the world, the abbreviations used for cities, towns, counties
> and states, and even some countries, can be confusing. I live in Western
> Australia, and the accepted postal address for the state specifies “WA”,
> but that is evidently also an acronym for Washington, as well as Wenatchee,
> Namibia, Warrington [UK], Westford Academy[MA], Westford Academy [Texas],
> Westminster Academy, and so on – all of which could potentially form part
> of an address.
>
> I agree that using the name at the time of the event is most helpful and
> other information can be added as an alternative, or in notes.
>
> While it can be frustrating to have to revise one’s ideas and practices,
> the more we conform to the accepted international standard, the easier we
> make things for those we share research with, now or in the future. I
> started genealogy so long ago, I only had boxes and paper files to work
> with. When the time came to enter all the data into a computer, it was
> really daunting, but I managed. As the computer programs became more
> complex, I have had to keep improving my skills and data entry – again,
> daunting and time-consuming, but the brain is being challenged and
> recording the information is getting easier, so I remain gratefulJ
>
>
>
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Shirley Crampton
> *Sent:* Monday, 5 August 2019 12:18 AM
> *To:* Legacy User Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another
> country may use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA
> could be California or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that
> they have no idea what the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.
>
>
> --
>
> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe
> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
> Archives at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-06 Thread Mary Young

This post is off topic.

On Tue, 6 Aug 2019, 02:31 CE WOOD,  wrote:

> If you are posting in plain text, there is no way other than to use
> capitals for emphasis. There is no way to "bold", "underline", "highlight",
> et alia,  leaving capitals as the only option.
>
> CE
>
>
> --
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup  on
> behalf of John Cardinal 
> *Sent:* Monday, August 5, 2019 11:44 AM
> *To:* 'Legacy User Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
> It's not a scream. All-caps for a single word in a sentence is typically
> used to indicate strong emphasis of the given word. But you knew that.
>
>
>
> I'm with Michele: I wish this thread would STOP. Unfortunately, it's not
> up to me.
>
>
>
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup  *On
> Behalf Of *Bill Hoff
> *Sent:* Monday, August 05, 2019 11:42 AM
> *To:* Legacy User Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> You scream often?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Aug 4, 2019, at 11:38 PM, Michele Morrison 
> wrote:
>
> Could we PLEASE stop this Pennsylvania thread, and just move on?
>
>
> *Michele*
>
> --
>
> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe
> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
> Archives at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-05 Thread CE WOOD

Returns? Do have dreams at night too?

CE

From: LegacyUserGroup  on behalf of 
dwq...@gmail.com 
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 5:55 AM
To: 'Legacy User Group' 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Andrew – You can still enter lat/long in Legacy.  I get them from Google Earth 
Pro.  That way they will be there when the geo-mapping feature returns.

Don Quigley

1207 Huntington Lane

Safety Harbor, FL 34695

(H) 727-330-7030

(M) 925-367-5609

dwq...@gmail.com<mailto:dwq...@gmail.com>

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Andrew Robbie
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 11:32 PM
To: 'Legacy User Group' 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

One thing that would really, really help here is Legacy resurrecting their 
geo-mapping feature.  Lat/Long never lies…  Forget excuses about this API or 
that API changing.  Just fix it.

☺

Andrew

From: LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com>>
 On Behalf Of Elizabeth Lindsay
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:48 PM
To: 'Legacy User Group' 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>>
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Unless your research is always going to be limited to only one country, it is 
really helpful to use the full name whenever possible.

Throughout the world, the abbreviations used for cities, towns, counties and 
states, and even some countries, can be confusing. I live in Western Australia, 
and the accepted postal address for the state specifies “WA”, but that is 
evidently also an acronym for Washington, as well as Wenatchee, Namibia, 
Warrington [UK], Westford Academy[MA], Westford Academy [Texas], Westminster 
Academy, and so on – all of which could potentially form part of an address.

I agree that using the name at the time of the event is most helpful and other 
information can be added as an alternative, or in notes.

While it can be frustrating to have to revise one’s ideas and practices, the 
more we conform to the accepted international standard, the easier we make 
things for those we share research with, now or in the future. I started 
genealogy so long ago, I only had boxes and paper files to work with. When the 
time came to enter all the data into a computer, it was really daunting, but I 
managed. As the computer programs became more complex, I have had to keep 
improving my skills and data entry – again, daunting and time-consuming, but 
the brain is being challenged and recording the information is getting easier, 
so I remain grateful☺

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Shirley Crampton
Sent: Monday, 5 August 2019 12:18 AM
To: Legacy User Group 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>>
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another country may 
use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA could be California 
or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that they have no idea what 
the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.

-- 

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-05 Thread CE WOOD

If you are posting in plain text, there is no way other than to use capitals 
for emphasis. There is no way to "bold", "underline", "highlight", et alia,  
leaving capitals as the only option.

CE


From: LegacyUserGroup  on behalf of 
John Cardinal 
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2019 11:44 AM
To: 'Legacy User Group' 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania


It's not a scream. All-caps for a single word in a sentence is typically used 
to indicate strong emphasis of the given word. But you knew that.



I'm with Michele: I wish this thread would STOP. Unfortunately, it's not up to 
me.



From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Bill Hoff
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2019 11:42 AM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania



You scream often?

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 4, 2019, at 11:38 PM, Michele Morrison 
mailto:michele25m...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Could we PLEASE stop this Pennsylvania thread, and just move on?


Michele
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-05 Thread Scott Hall

Logan:

This may be the best answer of all.  I like it.  I, too, will rethink how
I'm recording place names given your response to me.

On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 12:39 PM Logan Garth Swanger via LegacyUserGroup <
legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:

> I’ve been lurking on this conversation for some time as I too have been
> frustrated with how to enter place names, particularly those of
> Pennsylvania (where I and most of my ancestor have lived). For my two
> cents, here is how I have handled it.
>
>
>
> I do a great deal of courthouse research and most documents deal with
> legally incorporated geographical entities in Pennsylvania such as cities,
> boroughs, townships, and counties. I do several things
>
>
>
>1. I use place names as they were AT THE TIME OF THE EVENT which helps
>greatly with research.
>2. I organize my places as (township, or city, or borough), county,
>state, country.
>3. If an event occurred in a village, as they are unincorporated in
>Pennsylvania, I use the incorporated township in which the village is
>located and notate the village name in the description. (I do the same with
>cemeteries.)
>
>
>
> So, Scott, with reference to your illustration from Lycoming County, an
> event which happened in Muncy Township would have a different organization
> than one that occurred in Muncy, the borough. They would successively be:
>
> Muncy Township, Lycoming, Pennsylvania, United States
>
> Muncy, Lycoming, Pennsylvania, United States
>
>
>
> I realize this doesn’t totally solve the issues we have with entry into
> Legacy, but for me it does pretty much what I want it to. The suggestions
> and ideas on this thread are really helpful. I may have to rethink things.
>
>
>
> Logan
>
>
>
> *From: *Scott Hall 
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:53 AM
> *To: *Legacy User Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place
> names to be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.
>
>
>
> First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at the
> time of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the historic
> address in the notes have an interesting alternative, but it's not the
> preferred method as place names (even modern ones) can change.
>
>
>
> But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I discovered
> a challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a larger
> administrative division.  For example, in Lycoming County, there is both
> Muncy Township, and Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the borough, is part of Muncy
> Creek Township, not Muncy Township.  This is far from an isolated case --
> numerous counties in Pennsylvania have a township and a borough with the
> same name that are separate administrative divisions and where the borough
> is not located within the township.
>
>
>
> Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I
> understand it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. are not
> recorded unless officially part of the name.  Even New York City should be
> recorded as "New York" with the appropriate county (New York, Bronx,
> Richmond, etc.) recorded--but that's a different discussion.
>
>
>
> Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says
> "Muncy", which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you know
> it's the Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, Lycoming,
> Pennsylvania, USA -- but if you do, when you (or someone else) comes back
> to it -- which Muncy did you mean?
>
>
>
> So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" in
> the record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  And,
> of course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- "Muncy Borough,
> Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if Muncy was a city?  Would
> I enter "Muncy City, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy
> (city), Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA"?  I'd prefer not.
>
>
>
> Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I found
> that they are the one entity that tends to bear the same name as another
> administrative division.  But in much of the northeast, like New York,
> there are no townships, only towns, which often have villages or cities
> bearing the same name contained within them (e.g. Canandaigua is a city
> wholly contained with the Town of Canandaigua).  While in places like
> Pennsylvania, Michigan, or much of the midw

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-05 Thread John Cardinal

It's not a scream. All-caps for a single word in a sentence is typically used 
to indicate strong emphasis of the given word. But you knew that.

 

I'm with Michele: I wish this thread would STOP. Unfortunately, it's not up to 
me. 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Bill Hoff
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2019 11:42 AM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

You scream often?

Sent from my iPad


On Aug 4, 2019, at 11:38 PM, Michele Morrison mailto:michele25m...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Could we PLEASE stop this Pennsylvania thread, and just move on?




Michele

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-05 Thread Bill Hoff

You scream often?

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 4, 2019, at 11:38 PM, Michele Morrison  wrote:
> 
> Could we PLEASE stop this Pennsylvania thread, and just move on?
> 
> Michele
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 13:32, Andrew Robbie  wrote:
>> One thing that would really, really help here is Legacy resurrecting their 
>> geo-mapping feature.  Lat/Long never lies…  Forget excuses about this API or 
>> that API changing.  Just fix it.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> J
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
>> Elizabeth Lindsay
>> Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:48 PM
>> To: 'Legacy User Group' 
>> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Unless your research is always going to be limited to only one country, it 
>> is really helpful to use the full name whenever possible.
>> 
>> Throughout the world, the abbreviations used for cities, towns, counties and 
>> states, and even some countries, can be confusing. I live in Western 
>> Australia, and the accepted postal address for the state specifies “WA”, but 
>> that is evidently also an acronym for Washington, as well as Wenatchee, 
>> Namibia, Warrington [UK], Westford Academy[MA], Westford Academy [Texas], 
>> Westminster Academy, and so on – all of which could potentially form part of 
>> an address.
>> 
>> I agree that using the name at the time of the event is most helpful and 
>> other information can be added as an alternative, or in notes.
>> 
>> While it can be frustrating to have to revise one’s ideas and practices, the 
>> more we conform to the accepted international standard, the easier we make 
>> things for those we share research with, now or in the future. I started 
>> genealogy so long ago, I only had boxes and paper files to work with. When 
>> the time came to enter all the data into a computer, it was really daunting, 
>> but I managed. As the computer programs became more complex, I have had to 
>> keep improving my skills and data entry – again, daunting and 
>> time-consuming, but the brain is being challenged and recording the 
>> information is getting easier, so I remain gratefulJ
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Shirley Crampton
>> Sent: Monday, 5 August 2019 12:18 AM
>> To: Legacy User Group 
>> Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another country 
>> may use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA could be 
>> California or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that they have 
>> no idea what the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
>> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
>> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe 
>> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
>> Archives at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
> -- 
> 
> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-05 Thread dwqusc

Andrew – You can still enter lat/long in Legacy.  I get them from Google Earth 
Pro.  That way they will be there when the geo-mapping feature returns.

 

Don Quigley

1207 Huntington Lane

Safety Harbor, FL 34695

(H) 727-330-7030

(M) 925-367-5609

 <mailto:dwq...@gmail.com> dwq...@gmail.com

 

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Andrew Robbie
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 11:32 PM
To: 'Legacy User Group' 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

One thing that would really, really help here is Legacy resurrecting their 
geo-mapping feature.  Lat/Long never lies…  Forget excuses about this API or 
that API changing.  Just fix it.

 

:)

 

Andrew

 

From: LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > On Behalf Of Elizabeth 
Lindsay
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:48 PM
To: 'Legacy User Group' mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

Unless your research is always going to be limited to only one country, it is 
really helpful to use the full name whenever possible. 

Throughout the world, the abbreviations used for cities, towns, counties and 
states, and even some countries, can be confusing. I live in Western Australia, 
and the accepted postal address for the state specifies “WA”, but that is 
evidently also an acronym for Washington, as well as Wenatchee, Namibia, 
Warrington [UK], Westford Academy[MA], Westford Academy [Texas], Westminster 
Academy, and so on – all of which could potentially form part of an address.

I agree that using the name at the time of the event is most helpful and other 
information can be added as an alternative, or in notes. 

While it can be frustrating to have to revise one’s ideas and practices, the 
more we conform to the accepted international standard, the easier we make 
things for those we share research with, now or in the future. I started 
genealogy so long ago, I only had boxes and paper files to work with. When the 
time came to enter all the data into a computer, it was really daunting, but I 
managed. As the computer programs became more complex, I have had to keep 
improving my skills and data entry – again, daunting and time-consuming, but 
the brain is being challenged and recording the information is getting easier, 
so I remain grateful:)

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Shirley Crampton
Sent: Monday, 5 August 2019 12:18 AM
To: Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another country may 
use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA could be California 
or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that they have no idea what 
the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.

 

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Michele Morrison

Could we PLEASE stop this Pennsylvania thread, and just move on?

*Michele*





On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 at 13:32, Andrew Robbie 
wrote:

> One thing that would really, really help here is Legacy resurrecting their
> geo-mapping feature.  Lat/Long never lies…  Forget excuses about this API
> or that API changing.  Just fix it.
>
>
>
> J
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup  *On
> Behalf Of *Elizabeth Lindsay
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:48 PM
> *To:* 'Legacy User Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> Unless your research is always going to be limited to only one country, it
> is really helpful to use the full name whenever possible.
>
> Throughout the world, the abbreviations used for cities, towns, counties
> and states, and even some countries, can be confusing. I live in Western
> Australia, and the accepted postal address for the state specifies “WA”,
> but that is evidently also an acronym for Washington, as well as Wenatchee,
> Namibia, Warrington [UK], Westford Academy[MA], Westford Academy [Texas],
> Westminster Academy, and so on – all of which could potentially form part
> of an address.
>
> I agree that using the name at the time of the event is most helpful and
> other information can be added as an alternative, or in notes.
>
> While it can be frustrating to have to revise one’s ideas and practices,
> the more we conform to the accepted international standard, the easier we
> make things for those we share research with, now or in the future. I
> started genealogy so long ago, I only had boxes and paper files to work
> with. When the time came to enter all the data into a computer, it was
> really daunting, but I managed. As the computer programs became more
> complex, I have had to keep improving my skills and data entry – again,
> daunting and time-consuming, but the brain is being challenged and
> recording the information is getting easier, so I remain gratefulJ
>
>
>
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Shirley Crampton
> *Sent:* Monday, 5 August 2019 12:18 AM
> *To:* Legacy User Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another
> country may use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA
> could be California or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that
> they have no idea what the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.
>
>
> --
>
> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe
> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
> Archives at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Andrew Robbie

One thing that would really, really help here is Legacy resurrecting their 
geo-mapping feature.  Lat/Long never lies…  Forget excuses about this API or 
that API changing.  Just fix it.

 

:)

 

Andrew

 

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Elizabeth Lindsay
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:48 PM
To: 'Legacy User Group' 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

Unless your research is always going to be limited to only one country, it is 
really helpful to use the full name whenever possible. 

Throughout the world, the abbreviations used for cities, towns, counties and 
states, and even some countries, can be confusing. I live in Western Australia, 
and the accepted postal address for the state specifies “WA”, but that is 
evidently also an acronym for Washington, as well as Wenatchee, Namibia, 
Warrington [UK], Westford Academy[MA], Westford Academy [Texas], Westminster 
Academy, and so on – all of which could potentially form part of an address.

I agree that using the name at the time of the event is most helpful and other 
information can be added as an alternative, or in notes. 

While it can be frustrating to have to revise one’s ideas and practices, the 
more we conform to the accepted international standard, the easier we make 
things for those we share research with, now or in the future. I started 
genealogy so long ago, I only had boxes and paper files to work with. When the 
time came to enter all the data into a computer, it was really daunting, but I 
managed. As the computer programs became more complex, I have had to keep 
improving my skills and data entry – again, daunting and time-consuming, but 
the brain is being challenged and recording the information is getting easier, 
so I remain grateful:)

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Shirley Crampton
Sent: Monday, 5 August 2019 12:18 AM
To: Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another country may 
use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA could be California 
or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that they have no idea what 
the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.

 

-- 

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Elizabeth Lindsay

Unless your research is always going to be limited to only one country, it is 
really helpful to use the full name whenever possible. 

Throughout the world, the abbreviations used for cities, towns, counties and 
states, and even some countries, can be confusing. I live in Western Australia, 
and the accepted postal address for the state specifies “WA”, but that is 
evidently also an acronym for Washington, as well as Wenatchee, Namibia, 
Warrington [UK], Westford Academy[MA], Westford Academy [Texas], Westminster 
Academy, and so on – all of which could potentially form part of an address.

I agree that using the name at the time of the event is most helpful and other 
information can be added as an alternative, or in notes. 

While it can be frustrating to have to revise one’s ideas and practices, the 
more we conform to the accepted international standard, the easier we make 
things for those we share research with, now or in the future. I started 
genealogy so long ago, I only had boxes and paper files to work with. When the 
time came to enter all the data into a computer, it was really daunting, but I 
managed. As the computer programs became more complex, I have had to keep 
improving my skills and data entry – again, daunting and time-consuming, but 
the brain is being challenged and recording the information is getting easier, 
so I remain grateful:)

 

From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Shirley Crampton
Sent: Monday, 5 August 2019 12:18 AM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another country may 
use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA could be California 
or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that they have no idea what 
the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.

 

-- 

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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Bill Hoff

Face up, it would be rare, as an example, for the now United States to have 
correct location data entered in files given history of who controlled, or 
claimed to control, what over time.  I’ve seen one file attempt that, sorry to 
say incorrectly.  
Bill
Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 4, 2019, at 9:37 PM, Donna Newell  wrote:
> 
> This conversation has gotten absurd.  If you don’t want to be a genealogist, 
> then don’t follow the standards that have been cited, go ahead and do it 
> whatever way you want, it is your family.  Be aware that individuals that 
> follow correct procedures will not be downloading your trees because we would 
> just have to redo everything.  Please don’t use our trees, it would confuse 
> you no end with our precise entry of place names.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Aug 4, 2019, at 3:49 PM, R G Strong Genealogy  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> James,
>> 
>> Again, if you choose not to use the Genealogical Standard for places that is 
>> your choice but as was said, don't publish it for those that do. It is not 
>> policing it is the standard set by the Genealogists!
>> 
>> Russ
>> 
>> P.S this is starting to get old!!
>> 
>>> On 8/3/2019 3:14 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>>> I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
>>> Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
>>> Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of 
>>> America.  You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone 
>>> who thinks that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone 
>>> with common sense, or a tad bit of education.
>>> 
>>> Hoosierly yours,
>>> 
>>> James G. Hermsen
>>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>>> 
>>> 317-679-1466 cell
>>> 317-881-4600 land line
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Christopher
>>> 
>>> I agree with you.
>>> 
>>> My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
>>> referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location 
>>> name into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom 
>>> programs.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Georges
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part 
>>> de Christopher Seward Sr
>>> Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
>>> À : Legacy User Group 
>>> Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling 
>>> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity 
>>> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting 
>>> issues it will cause for those who come after.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Christopher 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all 
>>> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family 
>>> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then 
>>> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy 
>>> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Hoosierly yours,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> James G. Hermsen
>>> 
>>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>>> 
>>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 317-679-1466 cell
>>> 
>>> 317-881-4600 land line
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many 
>>> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state 
>>> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were 
>>> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there 
>>> is the problem of knowing lo

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Donna Newell

This conversation has gotten absurd.  If you don’t want to be a genealogist, 
then don’t follow the standards that have been cited, go ahead and do it 
whatever way you want, it is your family.  Be aware that individuals that 
follow correct procedures will not be downloading your trees because we would 
just have to redo everything.  Please don’t use our trees, it would confuse you 
no end with our precise entry of place names.

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 4, 2019, at 3:49 PM, R G Strong Genealogy  
> wrote:
> 
> James,
> 
> Again, if you choose not to use the Genealogical Standard for places that is 
> your choice but as was said, don't publish it for those that do. It is not 
> policing it is the standard set by the Genealogists!
> 
> Russ
> 
> P.S this is starting to get old!!
> 
>> On 8/3/2019 3:14 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>> I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
>> Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to 
>> mention Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of 
>> America.  You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone 
>> who thinks that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone 
>> with common sense, or a tad bit of education.
>> 
>> Hoosierly yours,
>> 
>> James G. Hermsen
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>> 
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>> 
>> 
>> On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Christopher
>> 
>> I agree with you.
>> 
>> My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
>> referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location 
>> name into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom 
>> programs.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Georges
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
>> Christopher Seward Sr
>> Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
>> À : Legacy User Group 
>> Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling 
>> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity 
>> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues 
>> it will cause for those who come after.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Christopher 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all 
>> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family 
>> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then 
>> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy 
>> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hoosierly yours,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> James G. Hermsen
>> 
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>> 
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>> 
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many 
>> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state 
>> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were 
>> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there 
>> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain 
>> of entries 
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr.  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish & 
>> share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause 
>> issues. 
>> 
>> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept 
>> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist 
>> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only 
>> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a 
>> different country than when he was born, thus m

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread CE WOOD

As far as what Location name to use in LegacyFamilyTree, the simplest solution 
for us users would be for AKA entries to be allowed in Locations as it is for 
Names. Doing so would eliminate the problem of knowing which Location to choose 
- you could have many.

Unfortunately, that would mean another task for the programmers who seem to 
have too much to  handle as it is.


Cheers,
CE


From: LegacyUserGroup  on behalf of 
Randy Fee 
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 9:29 AM
To: legacyusergroup@LegacyUsers.com 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania


I would like to agree with those who indicate that the location should be 
referenced as it was during the time of the event.  If the event occurred in 
1700, the reference to the location should be entered as it was known at that 
time.

Remember, we are genealogists.  We are basically historians for a particular 
family/s.  We are also detectives, as we have to dig to get the data as it 
pertained to the event and time it occurred.

It was previously mentioned that whomever is recording the events can enter the 
data in whichever format they wish to, which I agree with. Just remember, be 
consistent with the way you enter your data.  Enter your data the same way as 
much as possible.

Remember when entering your data, who is the audience for which this data is 
for?  Yourself?  Immediate family?  In both cases, if you put in information 
about Burroughs, your audience should know what your talking about.  But if 
your audience is outside your immediate family, say someone across the pond.  
Are they going to know what you mean when you have Burroughs in your data?  Do 
you wish to be answering a string of emails about what something means because 
someone is not familiar with your culture? Or even sometime in the future, you 
forgot why you did it a particular way.

In most software packages where you enter the location information, you are 
allowed free form entry, which allows you to enter data in your personally 
selected format.  But, if you vary from the genealogy standards, and then try 
to use a module like GeoCoding, your program might not return the results you 
expected or nothing at all.  You will then wonder why you are having problems.

You could say, it's all a double edged sword.  Enter the data the way you wish 
to, and expect complications further down the line, or use your software to the 
best you  can.  Take advantage of putting as many notes in as possible, explain 
exactly what you mean.  Use Geocoding if you can.


Randy Feezor

**Leave not doubt, spell it out**


On 8/4/2019 9:52 AM, Scott Hall wrote:
I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place names to 
be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.

First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at the time 
of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the historic address 
in the notes have an interesting alternative, but it's not the preferred method 
as place names (even modern ones) can change.

But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I discovered a 
challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a larger administrative 
division.  For example, in Lycoming County, there is both Muncy Township, and 
Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the borough, is part of Muncy Creek Township, not 
Muncy Township.  This is far from an isolated case -- numerous counties in 
Pennsylvania have a township and a borough with the same name that are separate 
administrative divisions and where the borough is not located within the 
township.

Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I understand 
it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. are not recorded 
unless officially part of the name.  Even New York City should be recorded as 
"New York" with the appropriate county (New York, Bronx, Richmond, etc.) 
recorded--but that's a different discussion.

Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says "Muncy", 
which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you know it's the 
Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, Lycoming, Pennsylvania, USA 
-- but if you do, when you (or someone else) comes back to it -- which Muncy 
did you mean?

So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" in the 
record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  And, of 
course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- "Muncy Borough, Lycoming 
County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if Muncy was a city?  Would I enter 
"Muncy City, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy (city), 
Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA"?  I'd prefer not.

Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I found that 
they are the one entity that tends to bear the s

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread R G Strong Genealogy

James,

Again, if you choose not to use the Genealogical Standard for places
that is your choice but as was said, don't publish it for those that do.
It is not policing it is the standard set by the Genealogists!

Russ

P.S this is starting to get old!!

On 8/3/2019 3:14 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of
America. You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of
someone who thinks that they need to police something totally not
needed by anyone with common sense, or a tad bit of education.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen
8108 Laura Lynne Lane
Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell
317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,
wrote:

Christopher

I agree with you.

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after
the referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old
location name into present day name and it is accepted by the
different Gedcom programs.

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup *De la
part de* Christopher Seward Sr

*Envoyé :* 3 août 2019 09:21
*À :* Legacy User Group
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that
handling data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting
data integrity issues. As I said, the choice is yours. Just be aware
of the lasting issues it will cause for those who come after.

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

Exactly my point. Putting historical location in the notes
maintains all the information one needs and still be sensible and
useful to family members. If people import information without
looking at the notes, then they are not being a good genealogist.
It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not for
reliable and useful information to share.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill
Hoff mailto:bh...@mchsi.com>> wrote:

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With
many relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not
become a state until June 20, 1863. On top of that many counties
within the state were divided over many years, far too many for me
to recall them all. Then there is the problem of knowing locations
but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr.
mailto:csewar...@gmail.com>> wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you
publish & share this information, your method goes against the
standard, and can cause issues.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting
the current name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes. Most people I share my information with
want to know where the place is now. They, like Trump, have no
regard for history, and those who know their history, already know
what the original name is. Looking for documents, the current
place will know what jurisdiction they once were governed by. It
is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise, we would
all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com <mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com>
<mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is
indicated in the documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use
curly brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher,
Centre-Val de Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Randy Fee


-- I don't know if my previous response was received, so trying again.

I would like to agree with those who indicate that the location should 
be referenced as it was during the time of the event.  If the event 
occurred in 1700, the reference to the location should be entered as it 
was known at that time.


Remember, we are genealogists.  We are basically historians for a 
particular family/s.  We are also detectives, as we have to dig to get 
the data as it pertained to the event and time it occurred.


It was previously mentioned that whomever is recording the events can 
enter the data in whichever format they wish to, which I agree with. 
Just remember, be consistent with the way you enter your data.  Enter 
your data the same way as much as possible.


Remember when entering your data, who is the audience for which this 
data is for?  Yourself?  Immediate family?  In both cases, if you put in 
information about Burroughs, your audience should know what your talking 
about.  But if your audience is outside your immediate family, say 
someone across the pond.  Are they going to know what you mean when you 
have Burroughs in your data?  Do you wish to be answering a string of 
emails about what something means because someone is not familiar with 
your culture? Or even sometime in the future, you forgot why you did it 
a particular way.


In most software packages where you enter the location information, you 
are allowed free form entry, which allows you to enter data in your 
personally selected format.  But, if you vary from the genealogy 
standards, and then try to use a module like GeoCoding, your program 
might not return the results you expected or nothing at all.  You will 
then wonder why you are having problems.


You could say, it's all a double edged sword.  Enter the data the way 
you wish to, and expect complications further down the line, or use your 
software to the best you  can.  Take advantage of putting as many notes 
in as possible, explain exactly what you mean.  Use Geocoding if you can.



Randy Feezor

**Leave not doubt, spell it out**


On 8/4/2019 9:52 AM, Scott Hall wrote:
I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place 
names to be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.


First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at 
the time of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the 
historic address in the notes have an interesting alternative, but 
it's not the preferred method as place names (even modern ones) can 
change.


But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I 
discovered a challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a 
larger administrative division.  For example, in Lycoming County, 
there is both Muncy Township, and Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the 
borough, is part of Muncy Creek Township, not Muncy Township.  This is 
far from an isolated case -- numerous counties in Pennsylvania have a 
township and a borough with the same name that are separate 
administrative divisions and where the borough is not located within 
the township.


Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I 
understand it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. 
are not recorded unless officially part of the name.  Even New York 
City should be recorded as "New York" with the appropriate county (New 
York, Bronx, Richmond, etc.) recorded--but that's a different discussion.


Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says 
"Muncy", which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you 
know it's the Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, 
Lycoming, Pennsylvania, USA -- but if you do, when you (or someone 
else) comes back to it -- which Muncy did you mean?


So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" 
in the record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, 
USA".  And, of course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- 
"Muncy Borough, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if 
Muncy was a city?  Would I enter "Muncy City, Lycoming County, 
Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy (city), Lycoming County, 
Pennsylvania, USA"? I'd prefer not.


Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I 
found that they are the one entity that tends to bear the same name as 
another administrative division.  But in much of the northeast, like 
New York, there are no townships, only towns, which often have 
villages or cities bearing the same name contained within them (e.g. 
Canandaigua is a city wholly contained with the Town of Canandaigua).  
While in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, or much of the midwest 
people may refer to a township by saying the word "township", in New 
York they certainly don't.  No one says Canandaigua town, nor 
Canandaigua city.  So, same problem.


This latter issue is less significant than the Pennsylvania problem, 
though, as at

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread sarrazingeorges

Excellent 


The discussion may be only academic.

Legacy offers two fields for location. In the first (location) each element 
should be indicated throughout - not CA, but California or Canada. The second 
called Short Location Name is the place, it seems to me, where abbreviations 
are used.

 

Georges

 

De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
Andrew Robbie
Envoyé : 4 août 2019 12:30
À : 'Legacy User Group' 
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

If you want to abbreviate then you can always use the short location name to 
include abbreviated locations (e.g. MA, USA) and then configure that to be 
displayed in main location fields on Family View for example.

 

Just my $0.02…

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > On Behalf Of Kevin Ferguson
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 8:18 AM
To: Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

In my opinion I would use the full name not abbreviations. Electrons are cheap 
enough to go with a full name. I see no reason to shorten anything is genealogy 
and bring potential confusion to the reader. That is just my opinion. There 
really is no right or wrong, just whatever suits you.

 

Kevin

 

www.abbydalesystems.com <http://www.abbydalesystems.com> 

 

Numbers 6:24-26

 

  _  

From: LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > on behalf of James G. 
Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 5:13 AM
To: Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Cc: James G. Hermsen mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania 

 

CA is the official Government abbreviation for California, used most often in 
postal addresses and locations.

 

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎23‎:‎27‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Anne Hildrum 
mailto:ahild...@gmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Well isn't CA an Acronym. 

 

Ane

 

From: LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > On Behalf Of Ian Macaulay
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:51 PM
To: Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and it 
confuses your Neighbors.

 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> > 
wrote:

I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of America.  
You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone who thinks 
that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone with common 
sense, or a tad bit of education.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Christopher

I agree with you. 

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name 
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

 

Georges

 

 

De : LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > De la part de Christopher 
Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling data 
in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity issues. 
As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues it will 
cause for those who come after.

 

Christopher 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> > 
wrote:

Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all the 
information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family members.  If 
people import information without looking at the notes, then they are not being 
a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not 
for reliable and useful information to share.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
mailto:bh...@mchsi.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Then o

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Logan Garth Swanger via LegacyUserGroup

I’ve been lurking on this conversation for some time as I too have been 
frustrated with how to enter place names, particularly those of Pennsylvania 
(where I and most of my ancestor have lived). For my two cents, here is how I 
have handled it.

I do a great deal of courthouse research and most documents deal with legally 
incorporated geographical entities in Pennsylvania such as cities, boroughs, 
townships, and counties. I do several things

1. I use place names as they were AT THE TIME OF THE EVENT which helps greatly 
with research.
2. I organize my places as (township, or city, or borough), county, state, 
country.
3. If an event occurred in a village, as they are unincorporated in 
Pennsylvania, I use the incorporated township in which the village is located 
and notate the village name in the description. (I do the same with cemeteries.)

So, Scott, with reference to your illustration from Lycoming County, an event 
which happened in Muncy Township would have a different organization than one 
that occurred in Muncy, the borough. They would successively be:
Muncy Township, Lycoming, Pennsylvania, United States
Muncy, Lycoming, Pennsylvania, United States

I realize this doesn’t totally solve the issues we have with entry into Legacy, 
but for me it does pretty much what I want it to. The suggestions and ideas on 
this thread are really helpful. I may have to rethink things.

Logan

From: Scott Hall
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:53 AM
To: Legacy User Group
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place names to 
be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.

First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at the time 
of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the historic address 
in the notes have an interesting alternative, but it's not the preferred method 
as place names (even modern ones) can change.

But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I discovered a 
challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a larger administrative 
division.  For example, in Lycoming County, there is both Muncy Township, and 
Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the borough, is part of Muncy Creek Township, not 
Muncy Township.  This is far from an isolated case -- numerous counties in 
Pennsylvania have a township and a borough with the same name that are separate 
administrative divisions and where the borough is not located within the 
township.

Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I understand 
it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. are not recorded 
unless officially part of the name.  Even New York City should be recorded as 
"New York" with the appropriate county (New York, Bronx, Richmond, etc.) 
recorded--but that's a different discussion.

Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says "Muncy", 
which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you know it's the 
Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, Lycoming, Pennsylvania, USA 
-- but if you do, when you (or someone else) comes back to it -- which Muncy 
did you mean?

So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" in the 
record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  And, of 
course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- "Muncy Borough, Lycoming 
County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if Muncy was a city?  Would I enter 
"Muncy City, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy (city), 
Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA"?  I'd prefer not.

Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I found that 
they are the one entity that tends to bear the same name as another 
administrative division.  But in much of the northeast, like New York, there 
are no townships, only towns, which often have villages or cities bearing the 
same name contained within them (e.g. Canandaigua is a city wholly contained 
with the Town of Canandaigua).  While in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, or 
much of the midwest people may refer to a township by saying the word 
"township", in New York they certainly don't.  No one says Canandaigua town, 
nor Canandaigua city.  So, same problem.

This latter issue is less significant than the Pennsylvania problem, though, as 
at least one entity is contained with another.  But, in Pennsylvania, as I 
pointed out, they do not always bear this relationship.

Thoughts?

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach  wrote:
Trying to decide how to input the location names – I have townships that are 
made up of villages and boroughs. How are others handling it?
I have thought of the following:
Village, township, county, state, United States
or 
township-village, country, state, United States (I like this as  all villages 
w

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Andrew Robbie

If you want to abbreviate then you can always use the short location name to 
include abbreviated locations (e.g. MA, USA) and then configure that to be 
displayed in main location fields on Family View for example.

 

Just my $0.02…

 

 

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Kevin Ferguson
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 8:18 AM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

In my opinion I would use the full name not abbreviations. Electrons are cheap 
enough to go with a full name. I see no reason to shorten anything is genealogy 
and bring potential confusion to the reader. That is just my opinion. There 
really is no right or wrong, just whatever suits you.

 

Kevin

 

www.abbydalesystems.com <http://www.abbydalesystems.com> 

 

Numbers 6:24-26

 

  _  

From: LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > on behalf of James G. 
Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 5:13 AM
To: Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Cc: James G. Hermsen mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania 

 

CA is the official Government abbreviation for California, used most often in 
postal addresses and locations.

 

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎23‎:‎27‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Anne Hildrum 
mailto:ahild...@gmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Well isn't CA an Acronym. 

 

Ane

 

From: LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > On Behalf Of Ian Macaulay
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:51 PM
To: Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and it 
confuses your Neighbors.

 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> > 
wrote:

I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of America.  
You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone who thinks 
that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone with common 
sense, or a tad bit of education.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Christopher

I agree with you. 

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name 
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

 

Georges

 

 

De : LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > De la part de Christopher 
Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling data 
in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity issues. 
As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues it will 
cause for those who come after.

 

Christopher 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> > 
wrote:

Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all the 
information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family members.  If 
people import information without looking at the notes, then they are not being 
a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not 
for reliable and useful information to share.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
mailto:bh...@mchsi.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many relatives 
in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state until June 20, 
1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were divided over many 
years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there is the problem of 
knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries 

Bill

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. mailto:csewar...@gmail.com> > wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publi

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Randy Fee

I would like to agree with those who indicate that the location should 
be referenced as it was during the time of the event.  If the event 
occurred in 1700, the reference to the location should be entered as it 
was known at that time.


Remember, we are genealogists.  We are basically historians for a 
particular family/s.  We are also detectives, as we have to dig to get 
the data as it pertained to the event and time it occurred.


It was previously mentioned that whomever is recording the events can 
enter the data in whichever format they wish to, which I agree with. 
Just remember, be consistent with the way you enter your data.  Enter 
your data the same way as much as possible.


Remember when entering your data, who is the audience for which this 
data is for?  Yourself?  Immediate family?  In both cases, if you put in 
information about Burroughs, your audience should know what your talking 
about.  But if your audience is outside your immediate family, say 
someone across the pond.  Are they going to know what you mean when you 
have Burroughs in your data?  Do you wish to be answering a string of 
emails about what something means because someone is not familiar with 
your culture? Or even sometime in the future, you forgot why you did it 
a particular way.


In most software packages where you enter the location information, you 
are allowed free form entry, which allows you to enter data in your 
personally selected format.  But, if you vary from the genealogy 
standards, and then try to use a module like GeoCoding, your program 
might not return the results you expected or nothing at all.  You will 
then wonder why you are having problems.


You could say, it's all a double edged sword.  Enter the data the way 
you wish to, and expect complications further down the line, or use your 
software to the best you  can.  Take advantage of putting as many notes 
in as possible, explain exactly what you mean.  Use Geocoding if you can.



Randy Feezor

**Leave not doubt, spell it out**


On 8/4/2019 9:52 AM, Scott Hall wrote:
I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place 
names to be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.


First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at 
the time of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the 
historic address in the notes have an interesting alternative, but 
it's not the preferred method as place names (even modern ones) can 
change.


But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I 
discovered a challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a 
larger administrative division.  For example, in Lycoming County, 
there is both Muncy Township, and Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the 
borough, is part of Muncy Creek Township, not Muncy Township.  This is 
far from an isolated case -- numerous counties in Pennsylvania have a 
township and a borough with the same name that are separate 
administrative divisions and where the borough is not located within 
the township.


Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I 
understand it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. 
are not recorded unless officially part of the name.  Even New York 
City should be recorded as "New York" with the appropriate county (New 
York, Bronx, Richmond, etc.) recorded--but that's a different discussion.


Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says 
"Muncy", which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you 
know it's the Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, 
Lycoming, Pennsylvania, USA -- but if you do, when you (or someone 
else) comes back to it -- which Muncy did you mean?


So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" 
in the record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, 
USA".  And, of course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- 
"Muncy Borough, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if 
Muncy was a city?  Would I enter "Muncy City, Lycoming County, 
Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy (city), Lycoming County, 
Pennsylvania, USA"? I'd prefer not.


Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I 
found that they are the one entity that tends to bear the same name as 
another administrative division.  But in much of the northeast, like 
New York, there are no townships, only towns, which often have 
villages or cities bearing the same name contained within them (e.g. 
Canandaigua is a city wholly contained with the Town of Canandaigua).  
While in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, or much of the midwest 
people may refer to a township by saying the word "township", in New 
York they certainly don't.  No one says Canandaigua town, nor 
Canandaigua city.  So, same problem.


This latter issue is less significant than the Pennsylvania problem, 
though, as at least one entity is contained with another.  But, in 
Pennsylvania, as I

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Shirley Crampton

The problem with using the abbreviation for a state is that another country
may use the same abbreviation which will be confusing.  eg: CA could be
California or Canada.  I have heard people in Australia say that they have
no idea what the two-letter abbreviations for US states mean.

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:08 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:

> What does not make sense is seeing something like:  , , , Indiana, United
> States of America. when a simple IN  would do.  Or: , , , Berlin,
> Democratic Republic of Germany.  You can find whatever available record in
> Berlin today regardless if it was Prussia, Imperial Germany, Natzi Germany,
> East Germany or West Germany or Occupied American Sector, French Sector, or
> British Sector, or  Federal Rpublic of Germany.  This junk belongs in the
> notes not in the primary entry.
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
> James G. Hermsen
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
> On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎22‎:‎00‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Christopher
> Seward Sr  wrote:
>
>
> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling
> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity
> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting
> issues it will cause for those who come after.
>
> Christopher
>
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
> legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:
>
> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all
> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family
> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then
> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy
> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
> James G. Hermsen
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff <
> bh...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many
> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state
> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were
> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there
> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain
> of entries
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. 
> wrote:
>
> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish
> & share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can
> cause issues.
>
> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept
> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist
> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only
> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a
> different country than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of
> one heritage, but was actually another.
>
> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the
> current name of the location in the notes.
> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>
> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to
> know where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history,
> and those who know their history, already know what the original name is.
> Looking for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they
> once were  governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.
> Otherwise, we would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
> James G. Hermsen
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com 
>  wrote:
>
>
> I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated
> in the documentation.
>
> If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly
> brackets with the new name after the old name.
>
> Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de
> Loire, France
>
> (Note : I use 5 fields)
>
>
>
> Georges
>
>
>
> *De :* LegacyUserGroup 
>  *De la part de* James G.
> Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
> *Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 0

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread John Zimmerman

Scott, you have convinced me to Avoid having family from Pennsylvania. :-) 

Unfortunately Mom was from Meadville & Dad was from York.

Thank you for clarifying the challenge for us all.

You can only record what you know to be true. Enter what you know the place 
name was at the time of the event, using whatever descriptors (Township, Town, 
etc.) you can confirm. Add notes of explanation to help others understand.

All the best,

John Zimmerman

Sent from my iPhone XS

> On Aug 4, 2019, at 7:52 AM, Scott Hall  wrote:
> 
> I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place names 
> to be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.
> 
> First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at the time 
> of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the historic 
> address in the notes have an interesting alternative, but it's not the 
> preferred method as place names (even modern ones) can change.
> 
> But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I discovered a 
> challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a larger 
> administrative division.  For example, in Lycoming County, there is both 
> Muncy Township, and Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the borough, is part of Muncy 
> Creek Township, not Muncy Township.  This is far from an isolated case -- 
> numerous counties in Pennsylvania have a township and a borough with the same 
> name that are separate administrative divisions and where the borough is not 
> located within the township.
> 
> Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I understand 
> it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. are not recorded 
> unless officially part of the name.  Even New York City should be recorded as 
> "New York" with the appropriate county (New York, Bronx, Richmond, etc.) 
> recorded--but that's a different discussion.
> 
> Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says 
> "Muncy", which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you know it's 
> the Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, Lycoming, 
> Pennsylvania, USA -- but if you do, when you (or someone else) comes back to 
> it -- which Muncy did you mean?
> 
> So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" in the 
> record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  And, of 
> course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- "Muncy Borough, Lycoming 
> County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if Muncy was a city?  Would I enter 
> "Muncy City, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy (city), 
> Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA"?  I'd prefer not.
> 
> Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I found that 
> they are the one entity that tends to bear the same name as another 
> administrative division.  But in much of the northeast, like New York, there 
> are no townships, only towns, which often have villages or cities bearing the 
> same name contained within them (e.g. Canandaigua is a city wholly contained 
> with the Town of Canandaigua).  While in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, 
> or much of the midwest people may refer to a township by saying the word 
> "township", in New York they certainly don't.  No one says Canandaigua town, 
> nor Canandaigua city.  So, same problem.
> 
> This latter issue is less significant than the Pennsylvania problem, though, 
> as at least one entity is contained with another.  But, in Pennsylvania, as I 
> pointed out, they do not always bear this relationship.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach  
>> wrote:
>> Trying to decide how to input the location names – I have townships that are 
>> made up of villages and boroughs. How are others handling it?
>> 
>> I have thought of the following:
>> 
>> Village, township, county, state, United States
>> 
>> or
>> 
>> township-village, country, state, United States (I like this as  all 
>> villages within the township would be listed together)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thank you, Connie.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
>> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
>> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe 
>> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
>> Archives at:
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Scott Hall

I wanted to chime into this conversation because I find entering place
names to be a challenge as well, and Pennsylvania is a perfect example.

First, I concur with those who say enter the place name as it was at the
time of the event.  Those who enter the modern address and add the historic
address in the notes have an interesting alternative, but it's not the
preferred method as place names (even modern ones) can change.

But, that's not really what I wanted to talk about.  Early on I discovered
a challenge when more than one "root name" exists within a larger
administrative division.  For example, in Lycoming County, there is both
Muncy Township, and Muncy, a borough.  Muncy, the borough, is part of Muncy
Creek Township, not Muncy Township.  This is far from an isolated case --
numerous counties in Pennsylvania have a township and a borough with the
same name that are separate administrative divisions and where the borough
is not located within the township.

Now, the commonly accepted place recording convention, as far as I
understand it, is that descriptors like village, town, county, etc. are not
recorded unless officially part of the name.  Even New York City should be
recorded as "New York" with the appropriate county (New York, Bronx,
Richmond, etc.) recorded--but that's a different discussion.

Back to Pennsylvaniawhen you come across a record that simply says
"Muncy", which Muncy is it?  Let's say you can figure it out...you know
it's the Township.  Now, generally you'd record it as Muncy, Lycoming,
Pennsylvania, USA -- but if you do, when you (or someone else) comes back
to it -- which Muncy did you mean?

So, to solve this problem, I've started to include the word "Township" in
the record -- "Muncy Township, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  And,
of course, that means I also have to use "Borough" -- "Muncy Borough,
Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA".  But what if Muncy was a city?  Would
I enter "Muncy City, Lycoming County, Pennsylvania"?  Or perhaps, "Muncy
(city), Lycoming County, Pennsylvania, USA"?  I'd prefer not.

Perhaps only Townships should get that designation, as generally I found
that they are the one entity that tends to bear the same name as another
administrative division.  But in much of the northeast, like New York,
there are no townships, only towns, which often have villages or cities
bearing the same name contained within them (e.g. Canandaigua is a city
wholly contained with the Town of Canandaigua).  While in places like
Pennsylvania, Michigan, or much of the midwest people may refer to a
township by saying the word "township", in New York they certainly don't.
No one says Canandaigua town, nor Canandaigua city.  So, same problem.

This latter issue is less significant than the Pennsylvania problem,
though, as at least one entity is contained with another.  But, in
Pennsylvania, as I pointed out, they do not always bear this relationship.

Thoughts?

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach 
wrote:

> Trying to decide how to input the location names – I have townships that
> are made up of villages and boroughs. How are others handling it?
>
> I have thought of the following:
>
> Village, township, county, state, United States
>
> or
>
> township-village, country, state, United States (I like this as  all
> villages within the township would be listed together)
>
>
>
> Thank you, Connie.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
> --
>
> LegacyUserGroup mailing list
> LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com
> To manage your subscription and unsubscribe
> http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com
> Archives at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
>
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Kevin Ferguson

In my opinion I would use the full name not abbreviations. Electrons are cheap 
enough to go with a full name. I see no reason to shorten anything is genealogy 
and bring potential confusion to the reader. That is just my opinion. There 
really is no right or wrong, just whatever suits you.

Kevin


www.abbydalesystems.com<http://www.abbydalesystems.com>


Numbers 6:24-26


From: LegacyUserGroup  on behalf of 
James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2019 5:13 AM
To: Legacy User Group 
Cc: James G. Hermsen 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

CA is the official Government abbreviation for California, used most often in 
postal addresses and locations.


Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen
8108 Laura Lynne Lane
Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell
317-881-4600 land line


On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎23‎:‎27‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Anne Hildrum 
 wrote:



Well isn't CA an Acronym.



Ane



From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Ian Macaulay
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:51 PM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania



I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and it 
confuses your Neighbors.





On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of America.  
You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone who thinks 
that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone with common 
sense, or a tad bit of education.



Hoosierly yours,



James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217



317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line





On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com>> wrote:





Christopher

I agree with you.

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name 
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.



Georges





De : LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com>>
 De la part de Christopher Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>>
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania



James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling data 
in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity issues. 
As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues it will 
cause for those who come after.



Christopher



On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all the 
information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family members.  If 
people import information without looking at the notes, then they are not being 
a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not 
for reliable and useful information to share.



Hoosierly yours,



James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217



317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line





On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
mailto:bh...@mchsi.com>> wrote:





Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many relatives 
in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state until June 20, 
1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were divided over many 
years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there is the problem of 
knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. 
mailto:csewar...@gmail.com>> wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish & 
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause 
issues.

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept getting 
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date 
(birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when 
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than 
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was 
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current 
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to know 
where the place i

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread Christopher Seward Sr.

Looking for documents, the current
place will know what jurisdiction they once were governed by. It
is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise, we would
all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen
8108 Laura Lynne Lane
Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell
317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com <mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com>
<mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is
indicated in the documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use
curly brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher,
Centre-Val de Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

*De :*LegacyUserGroup
<mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> *De la part de*
James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
*Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 09:26
*À :* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup

<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>
*Cc :* James G. Hermsen
<mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com>
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

I always use the current geographic location and name today in
each entry and in the notes, remark that the geographic name and
country was different then than it is today. That way when a
grandchild (or anyone) wants to find the place on a map is able to
do so. Prussia is very hard to find, if you did not know where to
look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has changed.
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after the
Cold War. Peking vs. Bejing. Same thing.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,
mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

I hope you are not inserting the the added information if it is
not in the document. The jurisdictions change over time. In the US
what was a county in 1850 may be another county in 1860 and still
another county by 1870. The house did not move but the boundaries did.

Marie

Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus
__ __ __
CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for
Certification of Genealogists, used under license by
Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation,
and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.

In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wrlinh...@gmail.com <mailto:wrlinh...@gmail.com> writes:

I do agree.

My standard is: [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township,
village, city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country

For folder hierarchy and some naming situations I reverse the
order but always hold to 4 elements for location. I don't believe
I have ever had an exception. I am sure I will learn about one
here. So far this works for me.

Bill

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm
mailto:robertaschw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I do the same thing, Shirley. Most of my ancestors are from
Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany and a spattering of
French. The only difference is I use "province" instead of State.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton
mailto:scshenders...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I use Village, County, State, Country. Hopefully there is
no more than 1 village of the same name in the County. If
the place is rural then I put the name of the township in
the first position.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach
mailto:bluecorab...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Trying to decide how to input the location names – I
have townships that are made up of villages and
boroughs. How are others handling it?

I have thought of the following:

Village, township, county, state, United States

township-village, country, state, United Stat

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup

 the way it is indicated in 
the documentation.
 
If the name has change or if two locations  have been merge, I use curly 
brackets with the new name  after the old name.
 
Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay},  41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de 
Loire, France
 
(Note : I use 5 fields)
 
  
 
Georges
 
  
   
De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
James G. Hermsen via  LegacyUserGroup
 Envoyé : 1 août 2019 09:26
 À : mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup  
 Cc : James G. Hermsen 
 Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names  for Pennsylvania

 
  
I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry and 
in the notes, remark  that the geographic name and country was  different then 
than it is  today.  That way when a grandchild (or  anyone) wants to find the 
place on a map is able to do so.  Prussia is very hard to find, if  you did not 
know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has  changed.  
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't  make sense for someone born after the Cold  War.   
Peking vs. Bejing.  Same thing.
   
  

Hoosierly yours,
   
  
   
James G. Hermsen
   
8108 Laura Lynne Lane
   
Indianapolis, IN 46217
   
  
   
317-679-1466 cell
   
317-881-4600 land line

  
   
  
 
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,  mvmcgrs--- 
viaLegacyUserGroup  wrote: 
   
  
   
  

  
   
  
 
I hope you are not inserting  the the added information if it is not in the 
document.  The jurisdictions  change over time. In the US what was a  county in 
1850 may be another  county in 1860 and still another county  by 1870. The 
house did not  move but the boundaries did.
   
  
   
Marie
 
 Marie Varrelman  Melchiori, Certified Genealogist  Emeritus
__ __ __
 CG or Certified  Genealogist is a service mark of the Board  for Certification 
 of Genealogists, used under  license by Board-certified genealogists after 
periodic competency  evaluation, and the board name is  registered in the US 
Patent  & Trademark Office.
   
In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
wrlinh...@gmail.com writes: 
   
  
 
I do agree.   
  
  
   
My standard is:   [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township,  village, 
city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country  
  
and apply to other countries similarly by always using three commas for all 
locations  [usually each has a repository of  genealogical data] .  The entry 
might between  comma's might be null if I don't have the  information.  For 
example born in USA  might be ", , , USA".  I know I have some research  to do 
but I only record what I have  from that source.
   
  
   
For folder hierarchy and some naming situations I reverse the  order but always 
hold to  4 elements for location.  I don't believe I have ever  had an 
exception.  I am sure I will learn about  one here.  So far this works for me. 
   
  
   
Bill

  

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm  
wrote:
  
  
I do the same thing, Shirley.  Most of my ancestors are from Scotland, Ireland, 
England, Germany and a  spattering of French.  The only difference is I use 
"province" instead of  State.
  
  
   
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton  
wrote:
  
  
I use Village, County, State, Country.  Hopefully there is no more than 1 
village of the same name in  the County.  If the place is rural then I put the 
name of the township in  the first position.
  
  
   
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach  wrote:
  
   
Trying to decide how to input the location names – I have townships that are 
made up of villages and boroughs. How are others handling it?
 
I have thought of the following:
 
Village, township, county, state, United States
 
or
 
township-village, country, state, United States (I like this as  all villages 
within the township would be listed together)
 
 
 
Thank you, Connie.
 
 
 
 
   
  
  
  
  
   
-- 
 
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup

Well the most obvious is to use CA if your database is originated in the USA 
for California.  and to use CANADA if you for outside the USA.  That is  if you 
did not know that Toronto, Ontario,  CA was in  Canada. or Toronto,  ON the 
same.
Hoosierly yours,
James G. Hermsen8108 Laura Lynne LaneIndianapolis, IN 46217
317-679-1466 cell317-881-4600 land line 

   On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎10‎:‎27‎:‎05‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Roberta 
Schwalm  wrote:  
 
 Yes, it is.  CA is the abbreviation for both California and Canada, which is 
why I always enter California or Canada instead of simply CA.

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:23 PM Anne Hildrum  wrote:


Well isn't CA an Acronym. 

 

Ane

 

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Ian Macaulay
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:51 PM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

I Live in CA, Not California    IMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and it 
confuses your Neighbors.

 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
 wrote:


I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of America.  
You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone who thinks 
that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone with common 
sense, or a tad bit of education.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
 wrote: 

 

 

Christopher

I agree with you. 

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name 
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

 

Georges

 

 

De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
Christopher Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group 
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling data 
in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity issues. 
As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues it will 
cause for those who come after.

 

Christopher 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
 wrote:


Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all the 
information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family members.  If 
people import information without looking at the notes, then they are not being 
a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not 
for reliable and useful information to share.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
 wrote: 

 

 

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many relatives 
in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state until June 20, 
1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were divided over many 
years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there is the problem of 
knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries 

Bill

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr.  wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish & 
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause 
issues.  

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept getting 
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date 
(birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when 
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than 
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was 
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current 
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to know 
where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and 
those who know their history, already know what the original name is.  Looking 
for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they once were  
governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.  Otherwise, we 
would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup

 
(Note : I use 5 fields)
 
  
 
Georges
 
  
   
De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
James G. Hermsen via  LegacyUserGroup
 Envoyé : 1 août 2019 09:26
 À : mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup  
 Cc : James G. Hermsen 
 Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names  for Pennsylvania

 
  
I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry and 
in the notes, remark  that the geographic name and country was  different then 
than it is  today.  That way when a grandchild (or  anyone) wants to find the 
place on a map is able to do so.  Prussia is very hard to find, if  you did not 
know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has  changed.  
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't  make sense for someone born after the Cold  War.   
Peking vs. Bejing.  Same thing.
   
  

Hoosierly yours,
   
  
   
James G. Hermsen
   
8108 Laura Lynne Lane
   
Indianapolis, IN 46217
   
  
   
317-679-1466 cell
   
317-881-4600 land line

  
   
  
 
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,  mvmcgrs--- 
viaLegacyUserGroup  wrote: 
   
  
   
  

  
   
  
 
I hope you are not inserting  the the added information if it is not in the 
document.  The jurisdictions  change over time. In the US what was a  county in 
1850 may be another  county in 1860 and still another county  by 1870. The 
house did not  move but the boundaries did.
   
  
   
Marie
 
 Marie Varrelman  Melchiori, Certified Genealogist  Emeritus
__ __ __
 CG or Certified  Genealogist is a service mark of the Board  for Certification 
 of Genealogists, used under  license by Board-certified genealogists after 
periodic competency  evaluation, and the board name is  registered in the US 
Patent  & Trademark Office.
   
In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
wrlinh...@gmail.com writes: 
   
  
 
I do agree.   
  
  
   
My standard is:   [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township,  village, 
city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country  
  
and apply to other countries similarly by always using three commas for all 
locations  [usually each has a repository of  genealogical data] .  The entry 
might between  comma's might be null if I don't have the  information.  For 
example born in USA  might be ", , , USA".  I know I have some research  to do 
but I only record what I have  from that source.
   
  
   
For folder hierarchy and some naming situations I reverse the  order but always 
hold to  4 elements for location.  I don't believe I have ever  had an 
exception.  I am sure I will learn about  one here.  So far this works for me. 
   
  
   
Bill

  

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm  
wrote:
  
  
I do the same thing, Shirley.  Most of my ancestors are from Scotland, Ireland, 
England, Germany and a  spattering of French.  The only difference is I use 
"province" instead of  State.
  
  
   
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton  
wrote:
  
  
I use Village, County, State, Country.  Hopefully there is no more than 1 
village of the same name in  the County.  If the place is rural then I put the 
name of the township in  the first position.
  
  
   
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach  wrote:
  
   
Trying to decide how to input the location names – I have townships that are 
made up of villages and boroughs. How are others handling it?
 
I have thought of the following:
 
Village, township, county, state, United States
 
or
 
township-village, country, state, United States (I like this as  all villages 
within the township would be listed together)
 
 
 
Thank you, Connie.
 
 
 
 
   
  
  
  
  
   
-- 
 
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Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-04 Thread James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup

CA is the official Government abbreviation for California, used most often in 
postal addresses and locations.

Hoosierly yours,
James G. Hermsen8108 Laura Lynne LaneIndianapolis, IN 46217
317-679-1466 cell317-881-4600 land line 

   On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎23‎:‎27‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Anne Hildrum 
 wrote:  
 
 
Well isn't CA an Acronym. 

 

Ane

  

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Ian Macaulay
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:51 PM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

I Live in CA, Not California    IMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and it 
confuses your Neighbors.

 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
 wrote:


I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of America.  
You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone who thinks 
that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone with common 
sense, or a tad bit of education.

  

Hoosierly yours,

  

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

  

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

  

  

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
 wrote: 

  

  

Christopher

I agree with you. 

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name 
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

 

Georges

 

 

De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
Christopher Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group 
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling data 
in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity issues. 
As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues it will 
cause for those who come after.

 

Christopher 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
 wrote:


Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all the 
information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family members.  If 
people import information without looking at the notes, then they are not being 
a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not 
for reliable and useful information to share.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
 wrote: 

 

 

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many relatives 
in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state until June 20, 
1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were divided over many 
years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there is the problem of 
knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries 

Bill

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr.  wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish & 
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause 
issues.  

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept getting 
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date 
(birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when 
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than 
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was 
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current 
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to know 
where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and 
those who know their history, already know what the original name is.  Looking 
for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they once were  
governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.  Otherwise, we 
would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, 
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com  wrote: 

 

 

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in the 
documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly 
brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Ce

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Donna Newell

rrent place will know what jurisdiction they 
>> once were  governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.  
>> Otherwise, we would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.
>> 
>> Hoosierly yours,
>> 
>> James G. Hermsen
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>> 
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>> 
>> 
>> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, 
>> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in 
>> the documentation.
>> 
>> If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly 
>> brackets with the new name after the old name.
>> 
>> Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de 
>> Loire, France
>> 
>> (Note : I use 5 fields)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Georges
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
>> James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
>> Envoyé : 1 août 2019 09:26
>> À : mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup 
>> Cc : James G. Hermsen 
>> Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry 
>> and in the notes, remark that the geographic name and country was different 
>> then than it is today.  That way when a grandchild (or anyone) wants to find 
>> the place on a map is able to do so.  Prussia is very hard to find, if you 
>> did not know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has 
>> changed.  Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after the 
>> Cold War.   Peking 
>> vs. Bejing.  Same thing.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hoosierly yours,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> James G. Hermsen
>> 
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>> 
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>> 
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, mvmcgrs--- 
>> via LegacyUserGroup  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I hope you are not inserting the the added information if it is not in the 
>> document.  The jurisdictions change over time. In the US what was a county 
>> in 1850 may be another county in 1860 and still another county by 1870. The 
>> house did not move but the boundaries did.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Marie
>> 
>> Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus
>> __ __ __
>> CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for Certification 
>> of Genealogists, used under license by Board-certified genealogists after 
>> periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US 
>> Patent & Trademark Office.
>> 
>> In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>> wrlinh...@gmail.com writes:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I do agree.  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> My standard is:   [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township, village, 
>> city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country 
>> 
>> and apply to other countries similarly by always using three commas for all 
>> locations [usually each has a repository of genealogical data] .  The entry 
>> might between comma's might be null if I don't have the information.  For 
>> example born in USA might be ", , , USA".  I know I have some research to do 
>> but I only record what I have from that source.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> For folder hierarchy and some naming situations I reverse the order but 
>> always hold to 4 elements for location.  I don't believe I have ever had an 
>> exception.  I am sure I will learn about one here.  So far this works for 
>> me. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I do the same thing, Shirley.  Most of my ancestors are from Scotland, 
>> Ireland, England, Germany and a spattering of French.  The only difference 
>> is I use "province" instead of State.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I use Village, County, State, Country.  Hopefully there is no

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Roberta Schwalm

Yes, it is.  CA is the abbreviation for both California and Canada, which
is why I always enter California or Canada instead of simply CA.


On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:23 PM Anne Hildrum  wrote:

> Well isn't CA an Acronym.
>
>
>
> Ane
>
>
>
> *From:* LegacyUserGroup  *On
> Behalf Of *Ian Macaulay
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:51 PM
> *To:* Legacy User Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and
> it confuses your Neighbors.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
> legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:
>
> I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had
> Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention
> Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of
> America.  You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone
> who thinks that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone
> with common sense, or a tad bit of education.
>
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
>
>
> James G. Hermsen
>
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
>
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
>
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
>
>
>
> On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, <
> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Christopher
>
> I agree with you.
>
> My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the
> referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location
> name into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom
> programs.
>
>
>
> Georges
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* LegacyUserGroup  *De la
> part de* Christopher Seward Sr
> *Envoyé :* 3 août 2019 09:21
> *À :* Legacy User Group 
> *Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling
> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity
> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting
> issues it will cause for those who come after.
>
>
>
> Christopher
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
> legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:
>
> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all
> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family
> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then
> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy
> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
>
>
> James G. Hermsen
>
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
>
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
>
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
>
>
>
> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff <
> bh...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many
> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state
> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were
> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there
> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain
> of entries
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. 
> wrote:
>
> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish
> & share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can
> cause issues.
>
> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept
> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist
> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only
> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a
> different country than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of
> one heritage, but was actually another.
>
> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the
> current name of the location in the notes.
>
> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>
> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to
> know where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history,
> and those who know their history, already know what the original name is.
> Looking for documents, the current place

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Christopher Seward Sr.

..@legacyusers.com> *De la part de*
James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
*Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 09:26
*À :* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup

<mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>
*Cc :* James G. Hermsen
<mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com>
*Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

I always use the current geographic location and name today in
each entry and in the notes, remark that the geographic name and
country was different then than it is today. That way when a
grandchild (or anyone) wants to find the place on a map is able to
do so. Prussia is very hard to find, if you did not know where to
look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has changed.
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after the
Cold War. Peking vs. Bejing. Same thing.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,
mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>> wrote:

I hope you are not inserting the the added information if it is
not in the document. The jurisdictions change over time. In the US
what was a county in 1850 may be another county in 1860 and still
another county by 1870. The house did not move but the boundaries did.

Marie

Marie Varrelman Melchiori, Certified Genealogist Emeritus
__ __ __
CG or Certified Genealogist is a service mark of the Board for
Certification of Genealogists, used under license by
Board-certified genealogists after periodic competency evaluation,
and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.

In a message dated 8/1/2019 6:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wrlinh...@gmail.com <mailto:wrlinh...@gmail.com> writes:

I do agree.

My standard is: [1. local jurisdiction/repository i.e.township,
village, city, etc], 2.County, 3.State, 4.Country

For folder hierarchy and some naming situations I reverse the
order but always hold to 4 elements for location. I don't believe
I have ever had an exception. I am sure I will learn about one
here. So far this works for me.

Bill

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20 AM Roberta Schwalm
mailto:robertaschw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I do the same thing, Shirley. Most of my ancestors are from
Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany and a spattering of
French. The only difference is I use "province" instead of State.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:05 PM Shirley Crampton
mailto:scshenders...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I use Village, County, State, Country. Hopefully there is
no more than 1 village of the same name in the County. If
the place is rural then I put the name of the township in
the first position.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 5:47 PM Connie Laubach
mailto:bluecorab...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Trying to decide how to input the location names – I
have townships that are made up of villages and
boroughs. How are others handling it?

I have thought of the following:

Village, township, county, state, United States

township-village, country, state, United States (I
like this as all villages within the township would
be listed together)

Thank you, Connie.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient_term=icon>
Virus-free. www.avast.com

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Anne Hildrum

Well isn't CA an Acronym. 

 

Ane

 

From: LegacyUserGroup  On Behalf Of 
Ian Macaulay
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:51 PM
To: Legacy User Group 
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and it 
confuses your Neighbors.

 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> > 
wrote:

I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of America.  
You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone who thinks 
that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone with common 
sense, or a tad bit of education.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Christopher

I agree with you. 

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name 
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

 

Georges

 

 

De : LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > De la part de Christopher 
Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

 

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling data 
in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity issues. 
As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues it will 
cause for those who come after.

 

Christopher 

 

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> > 
wrote:

Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all the 
information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family members.  If 
people import information without looking at the notes, then they are not being 
a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy things for numbers, not 
for reliable and useful information to share.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
mailto:bh...@mchsi.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many relatives 
in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state until June 20, 
1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were divided over many 
years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there is the problem of 
knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain of entries 

Bill

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. mailto:csewar...@gmail.com> > wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish & 
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause 
issues.  

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept getting 
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date 
(birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when 
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than 
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was 
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current 
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to know 
where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and 
those who know their history, already know what the original name is.  Looking 
for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they once were  
governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.  Otherwise, we 
would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

 

Hoosierly yours,

 

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

 

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

 

 

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, 
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com  <mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> 
 wrote: 

 

 

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in the 
documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly 
brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Roberta Schwalm

Actually, I use the full name for all locations.  I am from Canada.


On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:00 PM Donna Newell  wrote:

> Great answer!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 3, 2019, at 3:50 PM, Ian Macaulay  wrote:
>
> I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and
> it confuses your Neighbors.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
> legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:
>
>> I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had
>> Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention
>> Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of
>> America.  You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone
>> who thinks that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone
>> with common sense, or a tad bit of education.
>>
>> Hoosierly yours,
>>
>> James G. Hermsen
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>>
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>>
>>
>> On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, <
>> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Christopher
>>
>> I agree with you.
>>
>> My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after
>> the referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old
>> location name into present day name and it is accepted by the different
>> Gedcom programs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Georges
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :* LegacyUserGroup  *De la
>> part de* Christopher Seward Sr
>> *Envoyé :* 3 août 2019 09:21
>> *À :* Legacy User Group 
>> *Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>>
>>
>>
>> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling
>> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity
>> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting
>> issues it will cause for those who come after.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christopher
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
>> legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:
>>
>> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all
>> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family
>> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then
>> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy
>> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hoosierly yours,
>>
>>
>>
>> James G. Hermsen
>>
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>>
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>>
>>
>>
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>>
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff <
>> bh...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many
>> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state
>> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were
>> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there
>> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain
>> of entries
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you
>> publish & share this information, your method goes against the standard,
>> and can cause issues.
>>
>> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept
>> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist
>> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only
>> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a
>> different country than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of
>> one heritage, but was actually another.
>>
>> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the
>> current name of the location in the notes.
>>
>> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>>
>> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to
>> know where the place is now.

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Donna Newell

Great answer!

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 3, 2019, at 3:50 PM, Ian Macaulay  wrote:
> 
> I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and it 
> confuses your Neighbors.
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
>>  wrote:
>> I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had 
>> Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention 
>> Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of 
>> America.  You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone 
>> who thinks that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone 
>> with common sense, or a tad bit of education.
>> 
>> Hoosierly yours,
>> 
>> James G. Hermsen
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>> 
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>> 
>> 
>> On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Christopher
>> 
>> I agree with you.
>> 
>> My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the 
>> referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location 
>> name into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom 
>> programs.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Georges
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> De : LegacyUserGroup  De la part de 
>> Christopher Seward Sr
>> Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
>> À : Legacy User Group 
>> Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling 
>> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity 
>> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting issues 
>> it will cause for those who come after.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Christopher 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all 
>> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family 
>> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then 
>> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy 
>> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hoosierly yours,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> James G. Hermsen
>> 
>> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>> 
>> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 317-679-1466 cell
>> 
>> 317-881-4600 land line
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many 
>> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state 
>> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were 
>> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there 
>> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain 
>> of entries 
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr.  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish & 
>> share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause 
>> issues. 
>> 
>> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept 
>> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist 
>> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only 
>> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a 
>> different country than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one 
>> heritage, but was actually another.
>> 
>> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current 
>> name of the location in the notes.
>> 
>> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to know 
>> where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and 
>> those who know their history, already know what the original name is.  
>> Looking for documents, the curr

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Ian Macaulay

I Live in CA, Not CaliforniaIMHO Acronyms are not proper English, and
it confuses your Neighbors.


On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 3:14 PM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:

> I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had
> Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention
> Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of
> America.  You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone
> who thinks that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone
> with common sense, or a tad bit of education.
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
> James G. Hermsen
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
> On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, <
> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Christopher
>
> I agree with you.
>
> My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the
> referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location
> name into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom
> programs.
>
>
>
> Georges
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* LegacyUserGroup  *De la
> part de* Christopher Seward Sr
> *Envoyé :* 3 août 2019 09:21
> *À :* Legacy User Group 
> *Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling
> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity
> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting
> issues it will cause for those who come after.
>
>
>
> Christopher
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
> legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:
>
> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all
> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family
> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then
> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy
> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
>
>
> James G. Hermsen
>
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
>
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
>
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
>
>
>
> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff <
> bh...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many
> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state
> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were
> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there
> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain
> of entries
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. 
> wrote:
>
> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish
> & share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can
> cause issues.
>
> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept
> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist
> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only
> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a
> different country than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of
> one heritage, but was actually another.
>
> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the
> current name of the location in the notes.
>
> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>
> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to
> know where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history,
> and those who know their history, already know what the original name is.
> Looking for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they
> once were  governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.
> Otherwise, we would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.
>
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
>
>
> James G. Hermsen
>
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
>
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
>
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
>
>
>
> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com 
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I think one should always the

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup

I never had a Gedcom file not accept any location file whether it had
Indianapolis, Marion Co., IN, or even Indianapolis, IN. not to mention
Indianapolis, xxx Township, Marion County, Indiana, United States of America.
You soon get the point that the latter is the creation of someone who thinks
that they need to police something totally not needed by anyone with common
sense, or a tad bit of education.
Hoosierly yours,
James G. Hermsen8108 Laura Lynne LaneIndianapolis, IN 46217
317-679-1466 cell317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎43‎:‎25‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT,
wrote:

Christopher

I agree with you.

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

Georges

De : LegacyUserGroup De la part de
Christopher Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
wrote:

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff
wrote:

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish &
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause
issues.

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file. I kept getting
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date
(birth date). Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes. Most people I share my information with want to know
where the place is now. They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and
those who know their history, already know what the original name is. Looking
for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they once were
governed by. It is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise, we
would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in the
documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly
brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de
Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

De : LegacyUserGroup De la part de
James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
Envoyé : 1 août 2019 09:26
À : mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup
Cc : James G. Hermsen
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry and
in the notes, remark that the geographic name and country was different then
than it is today. That way when a grandchild (or anyone) wants to find the
place on a map is able to do so. Prussia is very hard to find, if you did not
know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has changed.
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born a

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup

Hoosierly yours,
James G. Hermsen8108 Laura Lynne LaneIndianapolis, IN 46217
317-679-1466 cell317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎August‎ ‎03‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎22‎:‎00‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Christopher
Seward Sr wrote:

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff
wrote:

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish &
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause
issues.

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file. I kept getting
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date
(birth date). Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes. Most people I share my information with want to know
where the place is now. They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and
those who know their history, already know what the original name is. Looking
for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they once were
governed by. It is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise, we
would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.
Hoosierly yours,
James G. Hermsen 8108 Laura Lynne Lane Indianapolis, IN 46217
317-679-1466 cell 317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in the
documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly
brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de
Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry and
in the notes, remark that the geographic name and country was different then
than it is today. That way when a grandchild (or anyone) wants to find the
place on a map is able to do so. Prussia is very hard to find, if you did not
know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has changed.
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after the Cold War.
Peking vs. Bejing. Same thing.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, mvmcgrs--- via
LegacyUserGroup w

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread sarrazingeorges

Below is an example for the city of Charlesbourg that was merged with Quebec
City. (Note: the numbers in the second field correspond to the unique code that
identifies the city of Quebec – not essential but useful for locations with the
same name but from different areas)

Charlesbourg {Québec}, 23027, Capitale-Nationale, Québec, Canada

Georges

De : LegacyUserGroup De la part de
Connie
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 10:18
À : Legacy User Group
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Thanks for all the info & suggestions. I did not know about curley brackets so
that will be a great help.

Thank you everryone.

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:43 AM mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Christopher

I agree with you.

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

Georges

De : LegacyUserGroup mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com> > De la part de Christopher
Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
wrote:

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff
mailto:bh...@mchsi.com> > wrote:

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. mailto:csewar...@gmail.com> > wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish &
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause
issues.

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file. I kept getting
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date
(birth date). Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes. Most people I share my information with want to know
where the place is now. They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and
those who know their history, already know what the original name is. Looking
for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they once were
governed by. It is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise, we
would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com <mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com>
<mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in the
documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly
brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de
Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

De : LegacyUserGroup <mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com>
De la part de James G. Hermsen via
LegacyUserGroup
Envoyé : 1 août 2019 09:26
À : mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup <mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com>

Cc : James G. Hermsen

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Connie

Thanks for all the info & suggestions. I did not know about curley brackets
so that will be a great help.
Thank you everryone.


On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 9:43 AM  wrote:

> Christopher
>
> I agree with you.
>
> My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the
> referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location
> name into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom
> programs.
>
>
>
> Georges
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* LegacyUserGroup  *De la
> part de* Christopher Seward Sr
> *Envoyé :* 3 août 2019 09:21
> *À :* Legacy User Group 
> *Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling
> data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity
> issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting
> issues it will cause for those who come after.
>
>
>
> Christopher
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
> legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:
>
> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all
> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family
> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then
> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy
> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
>
>
> James G. Hermsen
>
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
>
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
>
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
>
>
>
> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff <
> bh...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many
> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state
> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were
> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there
> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain
> of entries
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. 
> wrote:
>
> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish
> & share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can
> cause issues.
>
> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept
> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist
> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only
> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a
> different country than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of
> one heritage, but was actually another.
>
> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the
> current name of the location in the notes.
>
> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>
> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to
> know where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history,
> and those who know their history, already know what the original name is.
> Looking for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they
> once were  governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.
> Otherwise, we would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.
>
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
>
>
> James G. Hermsen
>
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
>
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
>
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
>
>
>
> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com 
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated
> in the documentation.
>
> If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly
> brackets with the new name after the old name.
>
> Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de
> Loire, France
>
> (Note : I use 5 fields)
>
>
>
> Georges
>
>
>
> *De :* LegacyUserGroup 
>  *De la part de* James G.
> Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
> *Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 09:26
> *À :* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup 
> 
> *Cc :* James G. Hermsen  
> *Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry
> and in the notes, remark that the geo

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread sarrazingeorges

Christopher

I agree with you.

My suggestion of putting the present name between curly brackets after the
referenced location name is simply an easy way to translate old location name
into present day name and it is accepted by the different Gedcom programs.

Georges

De : LegacyUserGroup De la part de
Christopher Seward Sr
Envoyé : 3 août 2019 09:21
À : Legacy User Group
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
mailto:legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> >
wrote:

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff
mailto:bh...@mchsi.com> > wrote:

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. mailto:csewar...@gmail.com> > wrote:

You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish &
share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can cause
issues.

An example for me was importing a person's info into my file. I kept getting
import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist on that date
(birth date). Now I have an issue, since this place not only didn't exist when
this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a different country than
when he was born, thus making him appear to be of one heritage, but was
actually another.

I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the current
name of the location in the notes.

On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:

Yes, but in the notes. Most people I share my information with want to know
where the place is now. They, like Trump, have no regard for history, and
those who know their history, already know what the original name is. Looking
for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they once were
governed by. It is all about being usable for current people. Otherwise, we
would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
sarrazingeor...@gmail.com <mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com>
<mailto:sarrazingeor...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated in the
documentation.

If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly
brackets with the new name after the old name.

Ex. Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de
Loire, France

(Note : I use 5 fields)

Georges

Cc : James G. Hermsen <mailto:jherm...@yahoo.com>
Objet : Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry and
in the notes, remark that the geographic name and country was different then
than it is today. That way when a grandchild (or anyone) wants to find the
place on a map is able to do so. Prussia is very hard to find, if you did not
know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name has changed.
Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after the Cold War.
Peking vs. Bejing. Same thing.

Hoosierly yours,

James G. Hermsen

8108 Laura Lynne Lane

Indianapolis, IN 46217

317-679-1466 cell

317-881-4600 land line

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, mvmcgrs--- via
LegacyUserG

Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania

2019-08-03 Thread Christopher Seward Sr

James, I understand where you're coming from. I just think that handling
data in a manner that deviates from the standard is inviting data integrity
issues. As I said,  the choice is yours. Just be aware of the lasting
issues it will cause for those who come after.

Christopher

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019, 4:59 AM James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup <
legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com> wrote:

> Exactly my point.  Putting historical location in the notes maintains all
> the information one needs and still be sensible and useful to family
> members.  If people import information without looking at the notes, then
> they are not being a good genealogist.   It tells me that they just copy
> things for numbers, not for reliable and useful information to share.
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
> James G. Hermsen
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
> On ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎02‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎50‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Bill Hoff <
> bh...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
> Then one cannot find on a map if historic locations used. With many
> relatives in West Virginia I have this problem. WV did not become a state
> until June 20, 1863.  On top of that many counties within the state were
> divided over many years, far too many for me to recall them all. Then there
> is the problem of knowing locations but not dates so one cannot be certain
> of entries
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 1, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Christopher Seward Sr. 
> wrote:
>
> You are free to record as you choose, but keep in mind that if you publish
> & share this information, your method goes against the standard, and can
> cause issues.
>
> An example for me was importing a person's info into my file.  I kept
> getting import errors stating the the location (birth place) did not exist
> on that date (birth date).  Now I have an issue, since this place not only
> didn't exist when this person was born, but when it did exist, it was in a
> different country than when he was born, thus making him appear to be of
> one heritage, but was actually another.
>
> I recommend ALWAYS putting the correct location in, and putting the
> current name of the location in the notes.
> On 8/1/2019 4:41 PM, James G. Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup wrote:
>
> Yes, but in the notes.  Most people I share my information with want to
> know where the place is now.  They, like Trump, have no regard for history,
> and those who know their history, already know what the original name is.
> Looking for documents, the current place will know what jurisdiction they
> once were  governed by.  It is all about being usable for current people.
> Otherwise, we would all be recording everying in Latin like they once did.
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
> James G. Hermsen
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎22‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT,
> sarrazingeor...@gmail.com 
>  wrote:
>
>
> I think one should always the name of a location the way it is indicated
> in the documentation.
>
> If the name has change or if two locations have been merge, I use curly
> brackets with the new name after the old name.
>
> Ex.  Romorantin {Romorantin-Lanthenay}, 41194, Loir-et-Cher, Centre-Val de
> Loire, France
>
> (Note : I use 5 fields)
>
>
>
> Georges
>
>
>
> *De :* LegacyUserGroup 
>  *De la part de* James G.
> Hermsen via LegacyUserGroup
> *Envoyé :* 1 août 2019 09:26
> *À :* mvmcgrs--- via LegacyUserGroup 
> 
> *Cc :* James G. Hermsen  
> *Objet :* Re: [LegacyUG] Location names for Pennsylvania
>
>
>
> I always use the current geographic location and name today in each entry
> and in the notes, remark that the geographic name and country was different
> then than it is today.  That way when a grandchild (or anyone) wants to
> find the place on a map is able to do so.  Prussia is very hard to find, if
> you did not know where to look. Same thing with names of cities whose name
> has changed.  Stalingrad, Linengrad don't make sense for someone born after
> the Cold War.   Peking vs. Bejing.  Same thing.
>
>
>
> Hoosierly yours,
>
>
>
> James G. Hermsen
>
> 8108 Laura Lynne Lane
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46217
>
>
>
> 317-679-1466 cell
>
> 317-881-4600 land line
>
>
>
>
>
> On ‎Thursday‎, ‎August‎ ‎01‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎43‎:‎54‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, mvmcgrs---
> via LegacyUserGroup  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I hope you are not inserting the the added information if it is not in the
> document.  The jurisdictions change over time. In the US what was a county
>