Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:48 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> 8b6f281
> 
>  puts
> the Pypi build and upload notes into nodes.
>

​Many thanks for this.  Rev 15035f2 contains the following minor changes:

- The revisions are in: How to...-->How to build Leo's PyPi Package.
- All nodes are on the ​same level, creating a "step-by-step" guide.
- Minor changes to markup.

Feel free to suggest any further changes.

I also deleted the previous guide.

I have just closed #562
, for the reasons
given in the last comment.

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> Thanks for picking this up and pointing out the bits that aren't clear.
>
> > Is it really true, as you imply, that pyqt gets installed automatically
> with python 3?  Or have I misunderstood something?
>
> Yes that's correct. There is a pypi PyQt wheel for py3.4+ but not for
> py2.7+.
>

​Good.​


> Finally, I think work on #562 can proceed in parallel with the release of
> Leo 5.2b1. Correct me if I am mistaken.  Until the 5.2 final, perhaps it
> would be good to label the PyPi release with the short git hash of the rev
> on which it is based.
>
> In my imaginings normally only numbered releases would be uploaded to
> pypi, though any interim state is possible. They just need to follow
> Semantic Versioning, which means no commit hash. The pypi version is
> automatic, handled in `git_version()` - https://github.com/leo-editor/
> leo-editor/blob/master/setup.py#L25
>

​Ok then.  If I understand correctly, the proper time to upload to PyPi is
when Leo 5.7 goes out the door.​


> Imo, almost all of the comments except the first comment could be deleted
> or heavily edited.  It would be impertinent for me to do so, as you are the
> expert, but I would encourage you to shorten the discussion in #562 as much
> as possible.
>
> I'm conflicted on this. I too wish for clean and concise descriptions of
> the issue. But the comments are also like an email thread, full of
> inconsequential-for-the-current-focus text, but all of which can help
> shed light on other issues and ideas when coming from a different starting
> point.
>

​That being so, I suggest first creating an "archive" posting on leo-editor
for the entire thread (everything after the first comment). You can
reference #562 from the thread, and the archive posting from #562.  If
something important remains, you can put it in, say, the new second and
last comment in #562. What do you think?

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Matt Wilkie]

8b6f281

puts
the Pypi build and upload notes into nodes. The "Matt's workflow for
updating pypi" node can be deleted. I delayed doing so as I'm not sure
we're finished with it?





On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> Thanks for picking this up and pointing out the bits that aren't clear.
>
> > Is it really true, as you imply, that pyqt gets installed automatically
> with python 3?  Or have I misunderstood something?
>
> Yes that's correct. There is a pypi PyQt wheel for py3.4+ but not for
> py2.7+.
>
> > - I have punted on trying to understand the recipe in detail. Imo, it
> should suffice to have people, devs or not, test the *results* of the
> recipe (the wheel uploaded to PyPi). Am I missing something or shirking my
> duties?
>
> I'm believe the results of the recipe are solid. The ultimate end goal of
> #562 is that the project doesn't rely solely on me for updating new
> releases to pypi -- because I'm not all that timely! Though I'm quite happy
> to do it when I'm around.
>
> > Finally, I think work on #562 can proceed in parallel with the release
> of Leo 5.2b1. Correct me if I am mistaken.  Until the 5.2 final, perhaps it
> would be good to label the PyPi release with the short git hash of the rev
> on which it is based.
>
> In my imaginings normally only numbered releases would be uploaded to
> pypi, though any interim state is possible. They just need to follow
> Semantic Versioning, which means no commit hash. The pypi version is
> automatic, handled in `git_version()` - https://github.com/leo-editor/
> leo-editor/blob/master/setup.py#L25
>
>
> > Imo, almost all of the comments except the first comment could be
> deleted or heavily edited.  It would be impertinent for me to do so, as you
> are the expert, but I would encourage you to shorten the discussion in #562
> as much as possible.
>
> I'm conflicted on this. I too wish for clean and concise descriptions of
> the issue. But the comments are also like an email thread, full of
> inconsequential-for-the-current-focus text, but all of which can help
> shed light on other issues and ideas when coming from a different starting
> point.
>
>
> > - Matt, please separate the upload recipe in leoDist.leo into separate
> child/grandchild nodes,
>
> Will do. Coming up next.
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 1:30 AM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 3:20 AM, Edward K. Ream 
>> wrote:
>> ​
>>
>>>
>>> I am presently in the midst of a careful revision of this first comment.
 This is likely the only way that I can understand all the details myself.
 Please review my changes.

>>>
>>> ​I have completed the revision. The highlights:
>>> ​ [big snip]
>>>
>>
>> ​Matt, I just had an idea, which you are free to decline.
>>
>> Imo, almost all of the comments except the first comment could be deleted
>> or heavily edited.  It would be impertinent for me to do so, as you are the
>> expert, but I would encourage you to shorten the discussion in #562 as much
>> as possible.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Btw, I have just "backed up" the first comment in #562 to LeoDocs.leo.
>> It's the only thing I care about at present.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Matt Wilkie]

Thanks for picking this up and pointing out the bits that aren't clear.

> Is it really true, as you imply, that pyqt gets installed automatically
with python 3?  Or have I misunderstood something?

Yes that's correct. There is a pypi PyQt wheel for py3.4+ but not for
py2.7+.

> - I have punted on trying to understand the recipe in detail. Imo, it
should suffice to have people, devs or not, test the *results* of the
recipe (the wheel uploaded to PyPi). Am I missing something or shirking my
duties?

I'm believe the results of the recipe are solid. The ultimate end goal of
#562 is that the project doesn't rely solely on me for updating new
releases to pypi -- because I'm not all that timely! Though I'm quite happy
to do it when I'm around.

> Finally, I think work on #562 can proceed in parallel with the release of
Leo 5.2b1. Correct me if I am mistaken.  Until the 5.2 final, perhaps it
would be good to label the PyPi release with the short git hash of the rev
on which it is based.

In my imaginings normally only numbered releases would be uploaded to pypi,
though any interim state is possible. They just need to follow Semantic
Versioning, which means no commit hash. The pypi version is automatic,
handled in `git_version()` - https://github.com/leo-editor/
leo-editor/blob/master/setup.py#L25


> Imo, almost all of the comments except the first comment could be deleted
or heavily edited.  It would be impertinent for me to do so, as you are the
expert, but I would encourage you to shorten the discussion in #562 as much
as possible.

I'm conflicted on this. I too wish for clean and concise descriptions of
the issue. But the comments are also like an email thread, full of
inconsequential-for-the-current-focus text, but all of which can help shed
light on other issues and ideas when coming from a different starting point.


> - Matt, please separate the upload recipe in leoDist.leo into separate
child/grandchild nodes,

Will do. Coming up next.

Matt


On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 1:30 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 3:20 AM, Edward K. Ream 
> wrote:
> ​
>
>>
>> I am presently in the midst of a careful revision of this first comment.
>>> This is likely the only way that I can understand all the details myself.
>>> Please review my changes.
>>>
>>
>> ​I have completed the revision. The highlights:
>> ​ [big snip]
>>
>
> ​Matt, I just had an idea, which you are free to decline.
>
> Imo, almost all of the comments except the first comment could be deleted
> or heavily edited.  It would be impertinent for me to do so, as you are the
> expert, but I would encourage you to shorten the discussion in #562 as much
> as possible.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Btw, I have just "backed up" the first comment in #562 to LeoDocs.leo.
> It's the only thing I care about at present.
>
> Edward
>
> --
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>

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 3:20 AM, Edward K. Ream 
wrote:
​

>
> I am presently in the midst of a careful revision of this first comment.
>> This is likely the only way that I can understand all the details myself.
>> Please review my changes.
>>
>
> ​I have completed the revision. The highlights:
> ​ [big snip]
>

​Matt, I just had an idea, which you are free to decline.

Imo, almost all of the comments except the first comment could be deleted
or heavily edited.  It would be impertinent for me to do so, as you are the
expert, but I would encourage you to shorten the discussion in #562 as much
as possible.

What do you think?

Btw, I have just "backed up" the first comment in #562 to LeoDocs.leo.
It's the only thing I care about at present.

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 2:41 AM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

I am presently in the midst of a careful revision of this first comment.
> This is likely the only way that I can understand all the details myself.
> Please review my changes.
>

​I have completed the revision. The highlights:

- I have removed the package upload recipe from this comment, preferring to
reference the actual recipe in leoDist.leo. It will be easy enough to
restore if necessary, but I don't think it will be.

- Matt, please separate the upload recipe in leoDist.leo into separate
child/grandchild nodes, so that the complex relationships between its parts
can be seen at a glance from outline structure.

- I have punted on trying to understand the recipe in detail. Imo, it
should suffice to have people, devs or not, test the *results* of the
recipe (the wheel uploaded to PyPi). Am I missing something or shirking my
duties?

I think I am beginning to understand this issue, but all comments and
corrections are welcome.

Finally, I think work on #562 can proceed in parallel with the release of
Leo 5.2b1. Correct me if I am mistaken.  Until the 5.2 final, perhaps it
would be good to label the PyPi release with the short git hash of the rev
on which it is based.

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:21 PM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> ... (...just noticed a command mistake, fixing that shortly)
>>
>
> Done. Top post updated and also internal documentation notes with commit
> e1eae1f
> 
> to leoDist.leo->Discussions->Matt's workflow for updating pypi
>
> "Discussions" isn't a good place for documentation. Where should these
> notes live?
>

​The first comment in #652 is a good start. Many thanks for the recent
revisions.

I am presently in the midst of a careful revision of this first comment.
This is likely the only way that I can understand all the details myself.
Please review my changes.

I did make one dubious change.  Rather than saying:

Python 3:

pip install leo

Python 2:

conda install pyqt
pip install Leo

I said:

- People can install Leo with `pip install leo`.
- People may also have to install PyQt, with their favorite package
manager: `conda install pyqt`.

Is it really true, as you imply, that pyqt gets installed automatically
with python 3?  Or have I misunderstood something?

I'm going to continue my revisions of the first comment of #652, hoping to
understand every little nuance.

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> ... (...just noticed a command mistake, fixing that shortly)
>

Done. Top post updated and also internal documentation notes with commit
e1eae1f

to leoDist.leo->Discussions->Matt's workflow for updating pypi

"Discussions" isn't a good place for documentation. Where should these
notes live?

matt

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> I believe it's now only:
>>
>>- Someone besides Matt runs through process from start to finish and
>>is successful ;-)
>>
>> ​I don't have any idea what "the process" is, or what it's supposed to do.
>

Oh! Well that's certainly a problem. :)


> So, what I am asking is for a revision of the first comment of #562 so
> that it is clear what has been done and how it can be tested.  Thanks.
>

This is done. You probably missed the update since you were about to head
out on vacation. See "Production Release" heading for the recipe.
If there are things that aren't clear please point them out so I can
address them. (...just noticed a command mistake, fixing that shortly)


> This is a special case of the communication principle, which I try always
> to follow, that a project isn't complete until it has been clearly
> communicated how and why the project is complete.
>

Agreed!

Matt

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Viktor Ransmayr  wrote:

>
> It's not clear to me, if you are interested in the user- or the developer
>>> view on the status of this issue?
>>>
>>
>> ​Both.  I have no idea what this project attempts to do, how to describe
>> it to users, or how to test it myself.  Clear enough?
>>
>
> Yes. - Here's a quick start from my user point of view:
>
> 1) I do not want to follow the development of Leo on a daily/ weekly base
> using a local clone of the Git repository.
>
> 2) I also do not want to wait until a final version of Leo is released.
>
> 3) I would like to use pip for the installation of Leo with the advantage
> that
>
> a) all core dependecies are automatically installed
>
> b) I can use venv to install & use multiple versions of Leo in a Python 3
> installation in parallel.
>

​Thanks very much for this.  It gives me a starting point for
understanding, documenting and testing.

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello Edward,

2018-01-26 0:40 GMT+01:00 Edward K. Ream :

> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 2:21 PM, Viktor Ransmayr <
> viktor.ransm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not clear to me, if you are interested in the user- or the developer
>> view on the status of this issue?
>>
>
> ​Both.  I have no idea what this project attempts to do, how to describe
> it to users, or how to test it myself.  Clear enough?
>

Yes. - Here's a quick start from my user point of view:

1) I do not want to follow the development of Leo on a daily/ weekly base
using a local clone of the Git repository.

2) I also do not want to wait until a final version of Leo is released.

3) I would like to use pip for the installation of Leo with the advantage
that

a) all core dependecies are automatically installed

b) I can use venv to install & use multiple versions of Leo in a Python 3
installation in parallel.

With kind regards,

Viktor

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 2:21 PM, Viktor Ransmayr 
wrote:

It's not clear to me, if you are interested in the user- or the developer
> view on the status of this issue?
>

​Both.  I have no idea what this project attempts to do, how to describe it
to users, or how to test it myself.  Clear enough?

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello Edward & Matt,

Am Dienstag, 23. Januar 2018 12:06:17 UTC+1 schrieb Edward K. Ream:
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Matt Wilkie  > wrote:
>
>>
>> The discussion in #562 
>>>  is long.  Could 
>>> you please summarize the present status and what, if anything, I might need 
>>> to do.
>>>
>>> I would like to release the next version of Leo once all this is 
>>> resolved.
>>>
>>
>> I believe it's now only:
>>
>>- Someone besides Matt runs through process from start to finish and 
>>is successful ;-)
>>
>> ​I don't have any idea what "the process" is, or what it's supposed to do.
>
> As Terry points out, it's bad form to delete other people's posts in an 
> issue tracker, but imo it's best if the "principle investigator" (usually 
> the original poster) edit the first comment of an issue so that it briefly 
> summarizes what the issue is all about and what the present status is.
>
> Imo, major edits and deletions are fine in that first comment.  If 
> necessary, create an ENB post for gory details, and reference that new post 
> from the first comment.
>

It's not clear to me, if you are interested in the user- or the developer 
view on the status of this issue?

If it is the user view, than I can offer my support, since I provided some 
feedback to Matt on this issue in the past ...

With kind regards,

Viktor
 

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Matt Wilkie  wrote:

>
> The discussion in #562
>>  is long.  Could
>> you please summarize the present status and what, if anything, I might need
>> to do.
>>
>> I would like to release the next version of Leo once all this is resolved.
>>
>
> I believe it's now only:
>
>- Someone besides Matt runs through process from start to finish and
>is successful ;-)
>
> ​I don't have any idea what "the process" is, or what it's supposed to do.

As Terry points out, it's bad form to delete other people's posts in an
issue tracker, but imo it's best if the "principle investigator" (usually
the original poster) edit the first comment of an issue so that it briefly
summarizes what the issue is all about and what the present status is.

Imo, major edits and deletions are fine in that first comment.  If
necessary, create an ENB post for gory details, and reference that new post
from the first comment.

So, what I am asking is for a revision of the first comment of #562 so that
it is clear what has been done and how it can be tested.  Thanks.

This is a special case of the communication principle, which I try always
to follow, that a project isn't complete until it has been clearly
communicated how and why the project is complete.

Edward

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Re: Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Matt Wilkie]

> The discussion in #562
>  is long.  Could you
> please summarize the present status and what, if anything, I might need to
> do.
>
> I would like to release the next version of Leo once all this is resolved.
>

I believe it's now only:

   - Someone besides Matt runs through process from start to finish and is
   successful ;-)

I'm a bit hazy on where the doc updates part sits. I think I've done my
bits but might have missed stuff.
Matt

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Matt, what's the status of #562?

[Edward K. Ream]

The discussion in #562  
is long.  Could you please summarize the present status and what, if 
anything, I might need to do.

I would like to release the next version of Leo once all this is resolved.

Edward

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