Re: Nesting levels in the source code - why do I have to use one level more than I thought?

[Chris Yate]

Hi David,

That's a very helpful answer, thanks!

It's a bit of syntax I've not really understood, and so end up "coding by
coincidence".

Chris
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Re: Tuplet bracket spacing with multiple voices

[Chris Yate]

The following might be the tidiest solution (i.e. just remove the number
and brace). Other opinions welcome!

\transpose f g {  \relative c'{
<<
  { r2 r4 \tuplet 3/2 { c8-. f-. c'-. }  f4 r r2}
  \\
  {  r2 \tuplet 3/2 { f,8-. c-. f-. }
   \omit TupletBracket \omit TupletNumber  \tuplet 3/2 { c8-. r4 }
  R1 }>> } }


[image: image.png]


On Fri, 4 May 2018 at 14:33 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> This passage is a little tricky to write tidily on one staff, and I might
> change the way this is done. But the placing of the lower tuplet bracket
> (covereing the quaver and crotchet rest) doesn't seem to help...
>
> \transpose f g {  \relative c'{
> <<
>   {   r2 r4 \tuplet 3/2 { c8-. f-. c'-. }  f4 r r2 }
>   \\
>   { r2 \tuplet 3/2 { f,8-. c-. f-. } \tuplet 3/2 { c8-. r4 }  R1  }
> >>
> } }
>
> A few questions
>
> 1) Is the spacing of the bracket in the 2nd voice (a) as intended (b)
> optimal / correct?
> 1c) Is there a neat workaround to extend the bracket to cover the width of
> the notes in the first voice?
>
> 2) If I write this as two staves, I only want that in the *parts* not the
> score. How would you achieve that with the minimum of code repetition?
> (However it's eventually set, I would rather only have *one* instance of
> the notes in my 'music.ily').
>
> Chris
>
>
> [image: Capture.PNG]
>
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Tuplet bracket spacing with multiple voices

[Chris Yate]

Hi guys,

This passage is a little tricky to write tidily on one staff, and I might
change the way this is done. But the placing of the lower tuplet bracket
(covereing the quaver and crotchet rest) doesn't seem to help...

\transpose f g {  \relative c'{
<<
  {   r2 r4 \tuplet 3/2 { c8-. f-. c'-. }  f4 r r2 }
  \\
  { r2 \tuplet 3/2 { f,8-. c-. f-. } \tuplet 3/2 { c8-. r4 }  R1  }
>>
} }

A few questions

1) Is the spacing of the bracket in the 2nd voice (a) as intended (b)
optimal / correct?
1c) Is there a neat workaround to extend the bracket to cover the width of
the notes in the first voice?

2) If I write this as two staves, I only want that in the *parts* not the
score. How would you achieve that with the minimum of code repetition?
(However it's eventually set, I would rather only have *one* instance of
the notes in my 'music.ily').

Chris


[image: Capture.PNG]
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Re: Scheme programming pointers

[Chris Yate]

https://scheme-book.ursliska.de

  "Iterating over the elements of a list is an extremely common programming
task. However, this is an area where Scheme is quite different from other
languages, and its idioms are very elegant - once they are not confusing
anymore. It is therefore important to really understand this topic in order
to work efficiently without being constantly frustrated. "

LOL!

Yes, I think this document should be my first port of call!!

Thank you for the link!



On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 at 19:37 Urs Liska <li...@openlilylib.org> wrote:

>
>
> Am 05.12.2017 um 20:16 schrieb Chris Yate:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I can probably work a lot out on my own, but if someone could direct me to
> any Lilypond-specific Scheme tutorials that might help with the idea I'm
> thinking about, that would be super!
>
>
> https://scheme-book.ursliska.de
> is very much work-in-(much-less-than-I'd-like)-progress, but you may find
> it useful anyway.
> Note that not all the entries in the TOC actually contain useful stuff yet.
> It (still) stops before it gets really interesting, but my objective was
> an introduction to Scheme for LilyPond users, taking into account what they
> may already know (and not to create a text that can only be digested when
> you already know the topic).
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
> I am sure there is precedent for this and I need not invent it myself!!
>
>
> There's precedent (public and private), and this is generally a very
> fruitful approach. Others have produced infrastructures, but I can only
> link to some of my own stuff:
>
>
>- https://git.openlilylib.org/bfsc/kayser
>Maybe look at make.ly in the main directory and then into the /config
>and /includes directories.
>
> You may search for orchestralily (although this is quite old) or
> openLilyLib templates (
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/lilypond-templates-td206201.html)
>
>
> HTH
> Urs
>
>
> Thanks in advance for all help :-)
>
> Chris
>
>
>
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Scheme programming pointers

[Chris Yate]

Hi all,

I can probably work a lot out on my own, but if someone could direct me to
any Lilypond-specific Scheme tutorials that might help with the idea I'm
thinking about, that would be super!

My idea is to remove a lot of boilerplate for score creation. Thus I can
have music defined as:

violinIMusic = \relative c' { ... }
violinIIMusic = etc.
---
and voices as


violinIVoice = etc.
violinIIVoice = etc.
---

Also Staffs, Headers, etc as required.

Then include these all in both Parts and Score files by something general,
like the following, very rough pseudocode.

---
( define instruments '("violinI" "violinII" "viola") )

( for each ( instrument : instruments )
  \new Staff {
  \$[instrument]Headers
  \$[instrument]Voice {
  (if \transposing (
   \$[instrument]Transposition ))
   \$[instrument]Music
 }
)
---

I am sure there is precedent for this and I need not invent it myself!!

Thanks in advance for all help :-)

Chris
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Re: Midi notes not stopping

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 at 11:07  wrote:

> Chris:
> ...
> > \score {
> >  \new Voice {  \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"trumpet"
> >  \relative c'''{
> >\tempo 2 = 100
> >\relative e'' { e4 \tuplet 5/4 { e16 f fis g gis }  }
> >   }
> >   } \layout{}  \midi{}  }
>
> Compiling this with 2.19.16 and inspecting with
> http://aspodata.se/git/musik/bin/midi.pl I get
>


> 


(the presented format is ['note_on', dtime, channel, note, velocity])
> which is mostly correct, the quintuplet doesn't add upp to a quarter
> note, a 1/384 is missing. Better would be to have ticks = 5*76 = 380.
>
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar
>
>
Hi Karl,

Is that a hint at a workaround, or diagnosing the fault in the code? I'm
not sure?!

Thanks anyway!

Chris
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Re: Midi notes not stopping

[Chris Yate]

On 29 Nov 2017 08:12, "David Kastrup"  wrote:

Gianmaria Lari  writes:

> wow!!
>
> Made some quick test (windows 10) and yes I have been able to reproduce
the
> issue.
>
> Ben is right, it goes away if you set tempo < 100.
>
> It also looks related to the instrument you select. If you set the
> instrument to "electric piano 1" and tempo 2=100 you will see a very long
> sound decay(?) (few seconds) but at the end it will stop. The same with
> tempo 2=99 stops immediately.
> If you set to violin/accordion/trumpet and tempo 2=100 it looks lasting
> forever. Could it be a wrong setting in the midi instrument
> sustain/decay

A missing note-off event will have different audible results for
continuous-tone instruments and percussive instruments.  That part is
not really surprising.

--
David Kastrup


David, should this be posted to bugs@? Happy to do that later.

Meanwhile, if this list can find a workaround I'd be grateful. Muting just
those tuplet notes, perhaps?

Chris
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Midi notes not stopping

[Chris Yate]

Hi guys,

I've searched a bit for hints on this and couldn't come up with anything
relevant. I may be using the wrong search terms.

This is a very short excerpt from a piece I'm writing where the midi
playback is broken. It's not the end of the world for the finished product,
but it is very annoying.

The following example causes at least one midi note to not be released.

The tempo marking is an issue, as at lower tempo I can't reproduce it. It
also appears to have something to do with having the tuplet yhere.

Fails in both 2.18 and 2.19.80.

Thanks in advance for your time!

Chris

Code follows:
--
\score {
 \new Voice {  \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"trumpet"
 \relative c'''{
   \tempo 2 = 100
   \relative e'' { e4 \tuplet 5/4 { e16 f fis g gis }  }
  }
  } \layout{}  \midi{}  }
--
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Re: double time signature problem

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 at 16:33 David Kastrup  wrote:

> David Wright  writes:
>
> > BTW does the German used here sound as archaic as Coverdale's
> > translation (Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up,
> > ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in)
>
> Uh, The Messiah _was_ composed and performed in English.  The libretto
> was written by Charles Jennens, and basically uses Bible passages from
> the KJV version.
>

Correct. But in the spirit of accuracy and pedantry, the work is called
"Messiah".
;-)

Chris

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 at 16:33 David Kastrup  wrote:

> David Wright  writes:
>
> > BTW does the German used here sound as archaic as Coverdale's
> > translation (Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up,
> > ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in)
>
> Uh, The Messiah _was_ composed and performed in English.  The libretto
> was written by Charles Jennens, and basically uses Bible passages from
> the KJV version.
>
> In this quote, I see "ye", 2nd person plural nominative (nowadays, the
> accusative is used for everything).  That's all.  Just a tiny bit of
> Early Modern English.  All the rest is quite current-day use.  It's
> similar with other passages: it uses Early Modern English pronouns and
> verb forms (like Shakespeare would) but is pretty standard fare
> otherwise.
>
> The problem is that the corresponding Lutheran German _is_ the same as
> modern-day German apart from some spelling differences.  German hasn't
> seen significant grammatical changes or simplifications since then.
>
> > or does it resemble contemporary usage?
>
> Both.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
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Re: Reducing staff numbers in LilyPond

[Chris Yate]

On 16 Oct 2017 20:38, "Ken Williams"  wrote:



On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:11 PM, David Wright 
wrote:

> It strikes me that notating this unusual effect on one staff
> increases ambiguity and the potential for mistakes, compared with
> just duplicating the notes on the normal two staves. When choral
> basses look at an E on the bottom line of a treble staff, they
> don't prepare their voices for singing at the top of their range.
>
> It could end up as a neat way of making yourself unpopular with
> Sopranos and Basses alike. Hey, why not go the whole hog and use
> a C clef!
>

I honestly did not expect this kind of response, and I'm getting it from
multiple people.  I asked a technical question and got a whole bunch of
"answers" saying I'm stupid to try to achieve that effect.  Except for
Kieren hinting that it will probably be difficult, there has been *zero*
actual discussion about the technical aspects of it.

If LilyPond or its community isn't friendly to people who want to
experiment with notation, I guess I'm finding that out pretty quickly.

 -Ken


Hi Ken,
Just to say, as I believe I was the first to start this (!). Email can be
tricky and it's easy to cause unintentional offence. Sorry for any
misunderstanding!

I didn't mean to imply you're "stupid" to try it, at all. Just as a kindly
warning that it might not be the unambiguous notation, and to try to
illustrate why.

In my opinion sticking to conventions is never a bad idea, unless you're
doing something exceptionally unconventional (graphic scores, etc).

Good luck,
Chris
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Re: Reducing staff numbers in LilyPond

[Chris Yate]

Personally I think it's clearer to just use two staves, Treble and Bass.

Many choral basses can't read treble clef, and tenors might sing the wrong
pitch, as they're used to reading octave treble...

Chris

On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 at 14:50 Ken Williams  wrote:

> I have a choral piece where some of it is 4-part divisi SATB, and some of
> it is unison (true unison, not octaves). I would love to notate this in
> LilyPond with the two (women's & men's) staves combining visually into one
> staff - when in the middle of a printed line, I'd like it to actually
> converge to the single staff, something like this (which I just pasted
> together crudely in an image editor):
>
> https://i.stack.imgur.com/FV0Q5.png
>
> Is that possible in LilyPond?
>
> (BTW - I originally posted this as
> https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/62569, and did get one response
> but I still don't quite get how I'd go about this - I get the impression
> the mailing list is more well-trafficked?)
>
>  -Ken
>
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Re: Look what I found in the pond...

[Chris Yate]

And which one's you, David?


On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 at 10:03 David Kastrup  wrote:

>
> <
> http://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/rheinland/deutsche-maskenbildner-meisterschaft-duesseldorf-110~_v-gseagaleriexl.jpg
> >
>
> The whole article for this makeup competition is at
> <
> http://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/rheinland/deutsche-maskenbildner-meisterschaft-100.html
> >
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
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Re: Baritone and treble clef

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 at 12:18 David Sumbler  wrote:

>
> > You are mistaken.
> Well, there you are then - I said I might be mistaken, and I was right!
>

Always nice to be proven correct
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Re: Section repeat

[Chris Yate]

On 2 Feb 2017 5:00 p.m., "Hans Åberg" <haber...@telia.com> wrote:


> On 2 Feb 2017, at 17:52, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Did you mean, how to achieve it in Lilypond, or what is the best
engraving practice?
>
> The latter.
>
> I'd write and expect to read numbered horizontal brackets for each
alternative, and expect a repeat symbol at the end of any section that
needed it.
>
> Of course you might put labelling like "1, 3", "2", "4" as required.

Yes, that is one. Another might be to indicate that the whole section is to
be repeated by some mark at the beginning like "2x", or perhaps Dal Segno
marks.


It depends how long the section is. D.S. marks are typically confusing for
short sections. "3x" still requires the repeat bar lines
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Re: Section repeat

[Chris Yate]

On 2 Feb 2017 16:49, "Hans Åberg" <haber...@telia.com> wrote:


> On 2 Feb 2017, at 17:09, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did you mean, how to achieve it in Lilypond, or what is the best
engraving practice?

The latter.


I'd write and expect to read numbered horizontal brackets for each
alternative, and expect a repeat symbol at the end of any section that
needed it.

Of course you might put labelling like "1, 3", "2", "4" as required.

Chris
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Re: Section repeat

[Chris Yate]

Did you mean, how to achieve it in Lilypond, or what is the best engraving
practice?


On 2 Feb 2017 15:18, "Hans Åberg"  wrote:

> When the whole section is repeated when it has alternatives, how is that
> normally engraved? Specifically, the section has two alternatives, but is
> repeated in full. One way is to use Score.repeatCommands for alternatives
> markup "1. 3" resp "2. 4", but then the "2." does not have a repeat. One
> can of course write four alternatives, but I was looking for something more
> compact.
>
>
>
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Re: New LilyPond website

[Chris Yate]

On 11 Dec 2016 07:23, "David Kastrup"  wrote:

Werner LEMBERG  writes:

>>> I just don't think I am the best person for the job.
>>
>> Roper has finally posted something I agree with.
>
> Why this unwarranted hostility?  His final design was sound, and I
> think we should adapt some key elements.  And even if you think it was
> not, you shouldn't word it like that.

I don't think there is a mythical "best person for the job" anyway.
Someone who is really into web design will really not be into our
constraints and tool chains.

John has demonstrated remarkable willingness to adapt himself to those,
so I was rather sad to see him overcome by a combination of those and on
top of that a bit of attitude that was in excess of what explaining the
situation strictly would have warranted.

He appeared like a lot more than we could have hoped for until he
finally threw in the towel.

--
David Kastrup


I'd missed him throwing in the towel, but with the sheer amount of
negativity in these threads regarding the idea of reworking the website, I
can't blame him.

Open source is great, old tools that still work are great, changing things
for no reason should be resisted; but let's not resist all change for the
sake of it.

I for one really liked his approach. And accessibility is important, as is
automatically/computationally generated documentation. And my view is, if
you refuse to use JavaScript, or try to run a defunct browser, that's your
problem.

Chris
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Re: New LilyPond website

[Chris Yate]

On 30 Nov 2016 01:00, "Tim McNamara"  wrote:
>
>

> The cosmetic appearance of the web site is most certainly an influential
factor in expanding the "mindshare" of Lilypond.

Completely agree.

> Take me-  I am a musician.  I know nothing useful about C and it's
variants, Scheme, etc.  Lilypond might have the most elegant code ever
written

It doesn't ;-)

> Unless you only want people who already know how to code to be your
customers.  That's a small market.

"People that are interested in typesetting music" is a small market. The
Venn diagram of those with "people that are confident coders" is **tiny**.

As others have said, Lilypond has a reasonably steep learning curve. But
when I was learning to use that, I felt Sibelius was also often confusing
and unintuitive. And on that matter, Musescore is far, far worse, despite
doing much of what Lily does in a "wysiwyg" way.
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Re: New LilyPond website

[Chris Yate]

Having now looked at it, though only on my phone, I quite like it. But I
did have to scroll scroll scroll to read what would be about one page of
content.

What I saw was a very "sexy" marketing site for Lilypond, and I think it
does it justice.

However, as someone already sold on the tool, all I want to read is the
documents, or download binaries... I think I'm echoing the others in saying
I'd like to see what you can do with responsive design to the
documentation!

I'd suggest as models, the docs for things like AngularJS, Bootstrap,
Ruby/Rails and Php. Although our documentation content is excellent, I'm
sure there's structural changes that could improve the presentation, and
certainly some responsive html/css... It's not my forte but I think it
might be one of yours! :)

Chris

On 29 Nov 2016 22:54, "Karlin High"  wrote:

> On 11/29/2016 4:42 PM, John Roper wrote:
> > I am trying to build the lilypond docs now.
>
> Very good! Chances of the new website project being accepted seem much
> higher if you can figure out how that works, and not greatly upset the
> existing workflow for maintaining documentation and translations.
> --
> Karlin High
> Missouri, USA
>
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Re: New LilyPond website

[Chris Yate]

On 29 Nov 2016 01:33, "John Roper"  wrote:
>
> I have thought about the no scripts idea, and I belive that right now,
there are not many websites that do not use javascript for some
functionality. Wordpress it's self is almost entirely built upon javascript
and php and it makes up >25% of all websites online (
https://martechtoday.com/wordpress-used-on-25-percent-of-all-websites-report-151115).
Even the lilypond blog runs on wordpress.
>

I agree, John, but there are some lilypond users using rather old
technology; possibly on dial-up... and never mind those that need stuff
like accessibility screen readers for the blind.

I fully predict a "just because JavaScript is ubiquitous doesn't mean it's
good" reply from somebody ;)

Chris
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

On 29 Nov 2016 13:40, "Karlin High"  wrote:
>
> On 11/28/2016 12:22 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
> > I thought the Windows EULA protested against being subjected to a VM?
>
> Buy a Windows full-version retail license for the virtual machine and
> you should be good to go.
>
> Windows 10 EULA (2)(d)(iv):
> *Use in a virtualized environment.* This license allows you to install
> only one instance of the software for use on one device, whether that
> device is physical or virtual. If you want to use the software on more
> than one virtual device, you must obtain a separate license for each
> instance.
>
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm
>
> And here's VMWare's take:
>
https://pubs.vmware.com/fusion-4/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.vmware.fusion.help.doc%2FGUID-50FC0AF1-AA0A-486D-89AB-4FA4C1CAA56C.html
> --
> Karlin High
> Missouri, USA

Of course there's nothing unreasonable about this; after all it is
commercial software, and most vendors wouldn't allow you unrestricted
copies.

Anyway, I think their licensing situation with regard to virtual machines
was changed some time ago. After all, with the cloud-hosted architecture
now the number of OS instances running "virtually" rather than on the bare
metal might be approaching a very large fraction...

C
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Nov 2016 23:11, "David Kastrup"  wrote:
>> >
> > I don't keep up to date on this stuff, so I'm no authority.  All I know
is
> > that I used to load XP into a VM using parallels and did not ecnounter
such
> > a problem.
>
> You don't "encounter" licensing problems unless you actually read
> through all of the license.
>

Ain't nobody got time for that!
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Nov 2016 21:13, "David Kastrup"  wrote:
>
>
> Depending on the importance of the data,

Well, that's the knub of it. The ideal situation is that everything you
can't afford to lose is stored off site - possibly multiple times. Github,
Bitbucket, or other means. I try my best... :)

That's easy for an IT professional to achieve, certainly a step too far for
most PC users.

Chris
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Nov 2016 20:12, "David Wright"  wrote:
>
>
> The most important thing in this situation is not to panic.
> It's quite possible that only two things have been altered:
> the Master Boot Record may have been overwritten, and the
> partition types may have been altered in the absence of any
> other changes, in particular to their contents.
>
> So it should be worth booting from a live linux CD to mount the
> partitions to check their contents, and to reinstall Grub
> (or whatever you use to boot) into the MBR. (Modify the latter
> if you have a EFI disk rather than MBR.)
>
> Note that Linux used to use the same GUID as a Microsoft Basic Data
> Partition so these could be relict, or set by MS as a convenient
> "bucket" value.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_basic_data_partition
>
> Cheers,
> David.

I'd suggest Supergrub. Great tool, and I've used it a number of times to
recover partition tables that I messed up. There's other options though...

Chris
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Nov 2016 16:13, "Johan Vromans"  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 00:48:59 +0100, Urs Liska  wrote:
>
> > The big houses more or less *exclusively* use Sibelius and Finale in
> > parallel, with a very low share still using SCORE and an actually tiny
> > share using Amadeus.
> >
> > Breitkopf just last year decided to quit any diversity and to move
> > everything to Sibelius.
>
> For what reason do they still insist on tools and not on results?
>

I am certain this is because they often want to edit for house style etc.
I've seen this mentioned on contracts for arranging etc, and it's quite
understandable to me. If you were copywriting for a newspaper, you wouldn't
send them a PDF and expect them to retype/scan it in.

On the other hand, it's virtually mandated for me at work that we don't
send technical documents out in anything other than PDF. There's many good
reasons for this, including not leaving tracked changes in there, but most
importantly it's very portable.

Chris
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Nov 2016 09:11, "David Kastrup"  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > You mean, if it doesn't already own you.  My father is a retired
> professor of theoretical physics who is still publishing.  He received a
> final draft of such a paper back from a physics journal along with
> instructions to put any corrections into PDF annotations.  So I
> installed Okular for him.
>
> Since the instructions were very detailed but only fit Acrobat Reader,
> he decided to use that after all and started up Windows.  Which decided
> to do a few updates.
>
> The only partition on his computer that is now still a Linux partition
> is the swap partition.
>
> Windows decided to update itself to Windows 10 (without asking back, of
> course) and decided to move all of Windows 8 into recovery partitions.
> Instead of partitioning off space from the existing Windows partition,
> it decided to rather junk all the Linux partitions and repurpose them.
>
> This is why this is called the "Windows 10 anniversary edition": it's
> like your wife celebrating your wedding anniversary by murdering your
> mistress and draping her on your bed.
>
> It is quite unclear how much, if anything, will be salvageable from his
> actual work environment.
>
> All of the Linux partitions are now "Windows recovery environment" or
> "Microsoft basic data" partitions and it is not clear how much of the
> original data will still be in there.
>
> Really, if you still have some dual boot environment, remove the Windows
> partition as fast as you can before it destroys your system.
>
> Microsoft is taking the last stand on the desktop and will go down with
> it.  Don't let it take out its despair on your property.
>
> --
> David Kastrup

Hi David,

It's terrible that you've had that experience, I've not heard of that
happening - although I dual boot at home
it hasn't happened to me... I've already got the "anniversary" update so
may have dodged a bullet.

However, the issue here isn't how bad Windows is ;-)

It's worth pointing out, OS X is another option for running Sib.

I had quite good success with Sibelius under WINE.  Years ago though and I
have no idea whether that would still work.

Cheers

Chris

P.S.
"it's like your wife celebrating your wedding anniversary by murdering your
mistress and draping her on your bed"

I laughed out loud :)

Cheers,

Chris

P.S.

"it's like your wife celebrating your wedding anniversary by murdering your
mistress and draping her on your bed"

I laughed out loud :)
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

On 27 Nov 2016 23:49, "Urs Liska" <u...@openlilylib.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Am 28.11.2016 um 00:41 schrieb Chris Yate:
>>
>> Hi Jacques,
>>
>> I don't know... It seems ridiculous that they have no common format -
but it's a relatively tiny industry...  But I doubt the big houses like
Peters and Barenreiter use either Sibelius or Finale...
>
>
> The big houses more or less *exclusively* use Sibelius and Finale in
parallel, with a very low share still using SCORE and an actually tiny
share using Amadeus.

Interesting. I've been told they use something else - a bespoke system, but
maybe that's old information. Why use the two in parallel though?

.. And do you know, for actual production of books, do they use Adobe
publishing tools, or something along those lines?

> Breitkopf just last year decided to quit any diversity and to move
everything to Sibelius.
>
>
>>
>> In the larger world of office IT, Microsoft have dealt with the issue of
everyone expecting to be able to share and consume MS Word documents by
supporting ODF, though it's still a problem that some people expect to
receive only .doc files.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm sure there would be Sibelius and Finale output converters
for Lilypond, but that these file formats are proprietary.
>
>
> This is only true in a hypothetical sense. Due to lack of resources we
only have an extremely rudimentary MusicXML export so far (the fact that
this is due to the single (!) developer working on it having taken a
full-time job speaks volumes, I think). There has been a few attempts in
recent years to improve the situation, but in the end it boils down to the
fact that this will only happen with some substantial external funding.

So, is musicXML really a reliable interop format between the other systems?

>> It makes me sad that they don't see a market in inter-operability. If
you're certain of the benefits of your software over another, then it's a
real sign of confidence to be able to export and import to and from all of
the alternatives.
>
>
> If I'm not mistaken completely for the better part of its lifetime
LilyPond was considered the last exit of a one-way street, i.e. it was
considered useful to convert documents *to* LilyPond, but who would ever
need anything *after* it ...
> Fortunately this attitude isn't that strong anymore, but still the
resources to change the situation are missing.

If output to MusicXML is the solution, then it's clearly solvable. But this
relies on the big boys implementing good import routines - and when
submitting things to a publisher, I'm not sure how much reformatting they
do but I would expect none. Which is the point of my prior post... It's
dangerous to export to a format of which you can't independently test the
validity.

Chris
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

Hi Jacques,

I don't know... It seems ridiculous that they have no common format - but
it's a relatively tiny industry...  But I doubt the big houses like Peters
and Barenreiter use either Sibelius or Finale...

In the larger world of office IT, Microsoft have dealt with the issue of
everyone expecting to be able to share and consume MS Word documents by
supporting ODF, though it's still a problem that some people expect to
receive only .doc files.

Anyway, I'm sure there would be Sibelius and Finale output converters for
Lilypond, but that these file formats are proprietary. It makes me sad that
they don't see a market in inter-operability. If you're certain of the
benefits of your software over another, then it's a real sign of confidence
to be able to export and import to and from all of the alternatives.



On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 at 23:20 Jacques Menu Muzhic <imj-muz...@bluewin.ch>
wrote:

> Hello Chris,
>
> How does Finale behave in the commercial publishing industry, compared to
> Sibelius, in terms of market share?
>
> Le 28 nov. 2016 à 00:03, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Hi Andrew
>
>
> Apologies in advance, I'm going to be *that guy*... ;-)
>
>
> For what it’s worth, I’m a huge fan of Linux, Lilypond and Muse and all
> the other wonderful **free** tools that we have available BUT if I
> was in any sense interested in working with a commercial publisher –
> especially for paid work, I wouldn’t mess about. I’d buy a copy of Windows,
> if I didn’t already own one, and then buy a copy of Sibelius. That’s just
> what they expect; and quite reasonably, as it's the industry standard!
>
>
> Also, if you’re expected to give them a well-presented score rather than
> just the notes, you’re going to need to do some work, possibly quite a bit,
> within Sib.  Photoscore will give you the music entry at higher speed than
> manual entry, but in my experience of Sibelius (mainly the now old version
> 3), getting a piece to performance quality output requires quite a lot
> of manual work to move symbols and so on about. (Though it's possible
> they've improved this by version 7, and some of my friends that use it say
> this is the case).
>
>
> Best of luck :)
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 at 22:22 Laura Conrad <lcon...@laymusic.org> wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Jacques" == Jacques Menu Muzhic <imj-muz...@bluewin.ch> writes:
>
> Jacques> Oups, totally forgot I had tested it two years ago, my
> Jacques> fault.
>
> So use a different email to get another free trial.
>
> --
> Laura   (mailto:lcon...@laymusic.org)
> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/116029698292079786511>
> (617) 661-8097  233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
> <http://www.laymusic.org/> <http://www.serpentpublications.org>
>
> I gave Cuellar more chances than my first wife.
>
> Hall of Fame Orioles manager Earl Weaver, after he stuck with lefty
> Mike Cuellar way too long, finally pulling him out of the rotation
> only to have Cuellar complain about losing his spot.
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Photoscore

[Chris Yate]

Hi Andrew



Apologies in advance, I'm going to be *that guy*... ;-)


For what it’s worth, I’m a huge fan of Linux, Lilypond and Muse and all the
other wonderful **free** tools that we have available BUT if I was in
any sense interested in working with a commercial publisher – especially
for paid work, I wouldn’t mess about. I’d buy a copy of Windows, if I
didn’t already own one, and then buy a copy of Sibelius. That’s just what
they expect; and quite reasonably, as it's the industry standard!


Also, if you’re expected to give them a well-presented score rather than
just the notes, you’re going to need to do some work, possibly quite a bit,
within Sib.  Photoscore will give you the music entry at higher speed than
manual entry, but in my experience of Sibelius (mainly the now old version
3), getting a piece to performance quality output requires quite a lot
of manual work to move symbols and so on about. (Though it's possible
they've improved this by version 7, and some of my friends that use it say
this is the case).


Best of luck :)


Chris



On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 at 22:22 Laura Conrad  wrote:

> > "Jacques" == Jacques Menu Muzhic  writes:
>
> Jacques> Oups, totally forgot I had tested it two years ago, my
> Jacques> fault.
>
> So use a different email to get another free trial.
>
> --
> Laura   (mailto:lcon...@laymusic.org)
> 
> (617) 661-8097  233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
>  
>
> I gave Cuellar more chances than my first wife.
>
> Hall of Fame Orioles manager Earl Weaver, after he stuck with lefty
> Mike Cuellar way too long, finally pulling him out of the rotation
> only to have Cuellar complain about losing his spot.
>
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Re: request for programming advice

[Chris Yate]

BB that is beautiful


On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 at 11:47 bb <bb-543...@telecolumbus.net> wrote:

> May be that is what you lokk for?
>
> http://www.vexflow.com/
>
> http://www.vexflow.com/vextab/tutorial.html
>
> Regards BB
>
> On 07.11.2016 12:25, Chris Yate wrote:
>
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 at 11:10 Gerard McConnell <gerine...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> About 10 years ago I wrote some Java applets which allow a user to test
> their understanding of intervals (
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/interval.html and triads (
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/chords.html) and minor scales (
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/pitchEtc2.html).  They work well, but
> it seems that Java applets are now no longer the best way to make programs
> available on web pages.  It seems that the HTML5 canvas is most common
> now.   I'm not an experienced programmer but I think the logic for
> generating the tests should be easy enough to transpose from java to
> javascript, however for display I'm wondering what a reasonably simple way
> to transform the note data into music notation is.  I used transparent
> .gifs for the original programs and shifted them into place, but I suspect
> that Lilypond or something similar would be better.   No doubt people here
> have worked on this sort of problem before, so any advice would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Gerard McConnell
>
>
> Lilypond can render to PNG which would probably be good for this task. I
> don't think it's the right thing for dynamic music creation though.
>
> I'm not quite sure what you are looking to do but if you wanted to create
> the music dynamically, I might render them in Lilypond, chop them into tiny
> bitmaps and then render them within the Canvas, using some custom
> positioning logic in Javascript.
>
> By the way... I hope you are aware that the Javascript language has almost
> nothing to do with Java?!  That said, I don't know how tricky your logic is.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
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Re: request for programming advice

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 at 11:10 Gerard McConnell  wrote:

> Hello,
> About 10 years ago I wrote some Java applets which allow a user to test
> their understanding of intervals (
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/interval.html and triads (
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/chords.html) and minor scales (
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/pitchEtc2.html).  They work well, but
> it seems that Java applets are now no longer the best way to make programs
> available on web pages.  It seems that the HTML5 canvas is most common
> now.   I'm not an experienced programmer but I think the logic for
> generating the tests should be easy enough to transpose from java to
> javascript, however for display I'm wondering what a reasonably simple way
> to transform the note data into music notation is.  I used transparent
> .gifs for the original programs and shifted them into place, but I suspect
> that Lilypond or something similar would be better.   No doubt people here
> have worked on this sort of problem before, so any advice would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Gerard McConnell
>
>
Lilypond can render to PNG which would probably be good for this task. I
don't think it's the right thing for dynamic music creation though.

I'm not quite sure what you are looking to do but if you wanted to create
the music dynamically, I might render them in Lilypond, chop them into tiny
bitmaps and then render them within the Canvas, using some custom
positioning logic in Javascript.

By the way... I hope you are aware that the Javascript language has almost
nothing to do with Java?!  That said, I don't know how tricky your logic is.

Chris
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Re: compound time signature with non duple denominator

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 at 18:03 tisimst  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Kieren MacMillan [via Lilypond] <[hidden
> email] > wrote:
>
> It's *legitimate* in all musical circles, though it's not *embraced* by
> all.
>
> ... as Kieren and I saw on a facebook group the other day when a composer
> started a discussion about having a bar with an "irrational" 2/6 time
> signature. Wow, the flames that ensued! It's quite simple:
>
> { \time 2/6 \tuplet 3/2 { c'4 c' } }
>
> ... with or without the tuplet number/bracket.
>
> -
> Abraham
>

Like so many things in life and art, just because you *can* doesn't mean
you *should* ;-)

Luckily, in Lilypond you *can* :-D

Given almost any rhythm could be expressed without the use of silly time
signatures (possibly by eliminating bar lines for a short section, or maybe
writing extra bars*). It makes sense to make life easy for your players,
rather than show off just how clever you are.

I've very occasionally had to play a bar or two of 4/3, and it
unnecessarily complicates something that's already difficult; particularly
as it utterly confuses those players that don't know how to parse it.

Chris

* yes, it could be difficult to write the same bar lines for all players.
Better I think to write partial bar lines and readable rhythms. The same
argument stands for ridiculous key signatures, whether an explicit key sig,
or written as something like a scale of F double-sharp
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Re: Augmentation dots regtests

[Chris Yate]

On 2 Nov 2016 08:13, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > Does moving the dot-column-engraver to voice sort out the confusing
> > horizontal spacing in these situations?  First time I've seen that
> > and it does interesting things to the positioning of dots.
>
> Alas, it doesn't work reliably in many cases (because it works locally
> only) and it sometimes produces collisions, IIRC – this was a few
> years ago, and maybe it is better now.
>
> It would help if there was an easy to use command to locally move the
> dot-column-engraver to voice context.
>
>
> Werner

Looking at these, I suspect dot-columns on voices should be the default.
Perhaps that would increase the motivation to fix its issues ;)
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Re: Augmentation dots regtests

[Chris Yate]

On 2 Nov 2016 06:37, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > 1) The kievan dot for a notehead on a line moved to a space, when it
> >should have stayed on a line.
> >
> > 2) When notes are displayed without a staff, the dot should stay on
> >the same level as the notehead, but it shifts up a half space.
> >
> > I'd welcome a critical review of the regtests to see if there are
> > any situations (other than those mentioned above) that you believe
> > are worse or wrong.
>
> Looking at `dot-column-vertical-positioning', I think the f-dot is
> wrongly positioned (but the rest dot is OK).
>
> I can imagine that the old solution of chord 7 in
> `dot-column-engraver' is better than the new behaviour (but still not
> optimal – the right solution, of course, would to position the dot for
> the first note before the head of the second note).
>
> The last chord in `collision-mesh' is as bad as before, just
> differently :-)
>
>
> Werner

I agree with most of your points, other than that I think the dots in
collision-mesh 4 were on the right spaces originally.

Does moving the dot-column-engraver to  voice sort out the confusing
horizontal spacing in these situations? First time I've seen that and it
does interesting things to the positioning of dots.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dots reg test

[Chris Yate]

The test case isn't ideal (maybe  is better than , but I think
the dotted minim a needs an individual dot...

On 29 Oct 2016 20:21, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:

>
>
> On 10/29/16 3:29 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >What happens with your new code with overlapping, rather than stacked
> >notes? E.g. << 4. // 2. >> (untested).
> >
> >I think from previous test cases it may become difficult to understand
> >which dots behind to which notes. IIRC there's an outstanding bug about
> >horizontal positioning in this situation.
>
> Here is the output of your test case.  How would you like this to appear?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>
>
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Re: Augmentation dots reg test

[Chris Yate]

On 29 Oct 2016 04:39, "Carl Sorensen"  wrote:
>
> I have worked some more on the augmentation dot algorithms, including
adding the directions (/DotsUp, /DotsDown).
>
> I would like your opinion on whether the attached regression test, which
is different from the current development regression tests, is correct.  I
think it is, but I'd like your opinions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl

This specific multiphonic case? I think it is ok. But is there an argument
for adding some horizontal space...?

What happens with your new code with overlapping, rather than stacked
notes? E.g. << 4. // 2. >> (untested).

I think from previous test cases it may become difficult to understand
which dots behind to which notes. IIRC there's an outstanding bug about
horizontal positioning in this situation.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 25 Oct 2016 3:36 p.m., "Carl Sorensen"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
> At any rate, I have some results from Chris's test file.  I have adjusted
> the text to contain my assessment of the results.  Please let me know if
> you disagree with any of my assessments.
>
> chord-dots-limit = 1 is better in most circumstances.  It is also
> consistent with Powell.
>
> chord-dots-limit = 2 is better in a few circumstances.
>
> Feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>

Hi Carl,

Firstly, thanks for your work on this!

At a quick glance, the only two situations that need dots-limit =2 are #11
and #23.

I think both of these point to an inconsistency/bug in the algorithm -

I think #11 should have the B space dot (I'm guessing this is a case of the
algorithm not allowing a downward dot movement from the C).

#23 definitely should have the B dot, since it's a space-note.

It's looking pretty close to optimal though.

A side issue:
An idea I've just had: would it be useful to have a more flexible
positioning system similar to that for rests? (e.g. "f4/rest"). It might be
useful to have the option of custom dot placement for special cases.

I'm sure there's already a way to achieve this, but it's probably not easy.
If anyone thinks it worthwhile, I will think more about a suggested
syntax... Maybe something for the LSR rather than core functionality.

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On 27 Sep 2016 18:31, "Jan Nieuwenhuizen"  wrote:.
>
> > A Lilypond build tool for all platforms to which someone's added half
> > a dozen extra unrelated targets (possibly very large ones such as
> > OpenOffice) = a terrible idea.
>
> Thanks!  GUB was the first to be so generic that it could be used for
> other projects as well, with almost no cost.  I hoped for GUB to be
> adopted by other projects, so that we would share maintenance and
> development effort on it.  It is (or was?) actively used by GNU Denemo,
> so that's where the GTK+ stuff comes from and at the time I worked on
> go-oo (the predecessor to LibreOffice) so I hooked that in too.  The
> idea was: once such a project uses this, others will join.
> Apparently, I did not succeed in bringing easy cross builds to other
> projects and with as a consequence I also failed in sharing maintenance
> load.

>So, please remove any OpenOffice references and depnedencies (git
> will remember anyway).

As David said, they're not really an overhead - but they are unmaintained.

> You may want to check with the GNU Denemo team
> before removing their dependencies.

Jan, I gather from your tone that you don't take all this too personally...
I'm glad. GUB clearly had great intentions. I suspect its complexity has
been a barrier to developing it into something more readily usable.

My struggle is building a local Lilypond build for one platform and in
fact, in principle, I think it's pretty well suited to the task. Currently,
it's not working for me (some dependency is broken). But that's not really
the fault of GUB, as such.

If building all dependencies from scratch could be avoided, that would be
helpful.

I believe Denemo are still using this, based on a message above here in the
thread, but they may have their own fork.

> I think GUB is beyond fixing, simply because it's community is too
> small.

It contains logic that could be used to create a new cross-build tool. The
fear I have with modifying very bespoke and complicated tools is a lack of
knowledge of failure modes - And especially that one can't possibly test
every output.

> ... because a build tool that takes 24+ hours to rebuild
>
> There are reasons for this.  GUB's aim was to find the sweet spot
> between complete OS independency/separation (fedora/debian/whatnot)
> and reproducibility.  It fails at both of these requirements, but I
> maintain that it was a fair effort.  If you want to be OS-independent
> and reliable, you'll have to build your own toolchain.

It's a really complicated task and I think a valiant effort. I wonder
whether there are now better ways one would build the same thing...

> I am currently working on Guix/GuixSD and have implemented a MinGW cross
> build facility that can cross build Guile which has been reviewed and
> will be merged soon.  I have patches that will cross build LilyPond
> and all its dependencies, some of those need cleanups and they need
> to be reviewed.
>
> Using Guix as a LilyPond build system presents a whole new set of
> problems/questions, but it would solve the biggest problems with GUB.
> It has an active community, so effort is shared.  It is very well
> documented and a whole lot more mature, better designed.  It has /full/
> OS separation; produces bit-reproducible binaries.  And it has a system
> of using binary substitutes: cross builds do not need to take longer
> than other builds.
>
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On 27 Sep 2016 03:59, "David Kastrup"  wrote:
>
> > At a brief look over GUB, the really big question in my mind is why on
> > earth it seems to want to build *everything*.
>
> It wants to be _able_ to build everything, like autoconf.

Fine. But Autoconf doesn't ship with makefiles for everything.

If it's a general tool, it ought not even mention Lilypond in the main
makefile. Possibly not even the platforms it supports. If it's a Lilypond
build tool, OpenOffice build rules don't belong in the distribution (unless
OpenOffice is a dependency for Lilypond?)

> You don't need to touch or maintain or use the OpenOffice rules ... It
won't build OpenOffice unless you ask it to.

I disagree. If it's distributed with OpenOffice build rules, then any
changes to GUB would need to be regression tested by building OpenOffice.

Is this the tool that Apache uses to build OO?

> You'll find that none of the 24+ hours are spent in relation to
> OpenOffice.  The OpenOffice configuration affects the download size of
> GUB, but that's a one-time cost and rather small.

Yeah, I've worked that out. Actually trivial to temporarily comment out
platforms you don't need. (Although it's still breaking for me...)

Is there a buglist other than the TODO file?

By the way, should this discussion have been in the Devel group?

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 23:05 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 19:34 David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> That's pretty good, actually.  Not being able to do native/online
>> compilations by anybody wanting to is bad.  Yes.  Fixes to GUB (possibly
>> even just to its information/documentation, maybe it _can_ do it
>> already) are of course welcome:
>
>
> David,
>
> At a brief look over GUB, the really big question in my mind is why on
> earth it seems to want to build *everything*. ...
>

All this said, it looks like the task of slimming it down for one's own
preferred build configurations (in my case, mingw builds, and with a custom
lilypond git repo) is simply a case of changing some definitions in the
Makefile(s).

That probably is not too troublesome for anyone that's confident to start
hacking something like Lilypond in the first place...

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 19:34 David Kastrup  wrote:

>
> That's pretty good, actually.  Not being able to do native/online
> compilations by anybody wanting to is bad.  Yes.  Fixes to GUB (possibly
> even just to its information/documentation, maybe it _can_ do it
> already) are of course welcome:


David,

At a brief look over GUB, the really big question in my mind is why on
earth it seems to want to build *everything*.

A Lilypond build tool for all platforms = a great idea.
A Lilypond build tool for all platforms to which someone's added half a
dozen extra unrelated targets (possibly very large ones such as OpenOffice)
= a terrible idea.

If I did anything to "fix" it, it would be to strip it right back to a tool
that does _one_ job well. And I don't know whether that's likely to be
popular thing (although correct me if I'm wrong there)...

... because IMHO a build tool that takes 24+ hours to rebuild after making
tweaks to it --and that's on a high spec machine-- is not a very useful
tool.

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 Sep 2016 20:16, "Phil Holmes"  wrote:
>
> TBH, you'd probably find it far easier to install a Linux VM on your
Windows host, and compile the problematic score on that.  I've done both,
and what I suggest here is what I would do.

That's exactly what I've done - I do a lot of my day job with Virtual
Machines. But...
... I generally use Frescobaldi as an IDE for Lilypond work - and that
works very much better in Windows (better integration with midi, pdf viewer
as well as printers etc.), and there's available installers for the latest
versions. Ubuntu's packaged version is ancient, and the one I built has all
sorts of problems.

That said, it is almost certainly the path of least resistance to fix
Frescobaldi on Linux than fix Lilypond in Windows!!

> I also used Sibelius - for my college course.  I always now use LilyPond
in preference.

IMO, Lilypond produces somewhat better looking output (with at least a
little care), and as a software engineer I really rate being able to
source-control my files properly. Everything's in git...

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 19:34 David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:

> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > Sigh... Yes, that's basically the conclusion I'd already come to, but
> that
> > it seemed such a ludicrous state of affairs that _somebody_ must have a
> > better solution.
>
> If you can find _any_ free software project requiring a number of free
> software compile- and runtime dependencies that does not invest a really
> big amount of time into maintaining a separate Windows port, you might
> want to look how they are doing it.
>

Thanks David. If the answer to my question is "no, there's no other way",
that's still a useful answer! :)

To be fair, I think the projects that do work across many systems are
usually not using C++, but some other language that's more portable.
Probably something interpreted, or running on a VM.  And of course,
Lilypond has a bunch of dependencies, TexMf, Guile and the like, which may
be more of a portability problem than /our/ code.

In contrast, the LilyPond Windows releases appear at the same time as
> other releases and require no extra manual effort (until things go
> wrong, of course). That's pretty good, actually.


Agreed!

Not being able to do native/online compilations by anybody wanting to is
> bad.  Yes.  Fixes to GUB (possibly even just to its
> information/documentation, maybe it _can_ do it already) are of course
> welcome


GUB is a really good idea. But obviously it's not great having to compile
the whole thing to change a source repository... If its authors followed
the mentality of Gnu autoconf tools, you'd expect to be able to pass some
arguments in. I'll look into it a little.

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

Hi Phil,

Sigh... Yes, that's basically the conclusion I'd already come to, but that
it seemed such a ludicrous state of affairs that _somebody_ must have a
better solution.

I've just installed mingw on Ubuntu, which might possibly do the job...

At the moment my scores have a habit of crashing at line 1180 in
page-breaking.cc when an assertion is thrown; that only happens under
Windows. And I reckon I can now see why it hasn't been investigated
seriously by anyone!! (although it's possible it could be an issue with one
of Lilypond's library dependencies.).

It should not be so difficult to work on open source stuff on any platform.
And it's not Microsoft's fault, presumably a lack of demand... (I'm not
blaming anybody here, by the way.)  In terms of the time I've wasted, I'm
fairly seriously considering that I might buy Sibelius and be done
with it. Given
that most of my colleagues in music expect me to be able to send them .sib
files to share, it's probably inevitable. Shame.

Chris




On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 19:10 Phil Holmes <m...@philholmes.net> wrote:

> Gub uses http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/lilypond.git as its source.  I
> know of no way of changing that without a lot of effort changing its
> codebase.  I personally know of no simple way of cross-compiling LilyPond
> for Windows without using Gub as the tool.  However, you can (in principle)
> create your own branch on Savannah and use Gub to compile against that (see
> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/lilypond.git/log/?h=dev/philh for an
> example of something I'm trying to debug at present).  You'll need a big
> old machine or a lot of patience to get it working - I occasionally have
> compile time of the order of 24 hours on a Core i7 quad core system.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Phil Holmes
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>
> *To:* Lilypond-User Mailing List <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 26, 2016 6:54 PM
> *Subject:* Question: Cross compilation
>
> Hi all,
>
> Apologies for the potentially "blindingly obvious" question, bu't having
> read the devel webpages about compiling Lilypond for mingw/Windows, I'm
> none the wiser.
>
> I can compile for native linux using the gnu make (via the
> smart-autoconf.sh script). However, I'm trying to track down a crash in
> Windows, and according to the website/docs it's impossible to compile
> natively* -- so need a cross-compile.
>
> I note the existance of "GUB", but this appears to use the main repository
> as source**. But obviously, I need to compile from my working copy after
> I've put a bunch of tracing code in.
>
> This document
> http://www.gnu.org/software/lilypond/src/Developers/Packaging/windows.html 
> appears
> to be out of date. I found "janneke"'s patches at
> http://lilypond.org/people/janneke/software/cygwin/mknetrel/ but it's not
> clear from where mknetrel itself should be obtained.
>
> My dev environment is Ubuntu 16 (or 14). Any hints or tips or redirection
> towards the relevant instructions would be welcome!
>
> Chris
>
> ---
>
> * assuming the statement about compiling natively under Windows _does_not_
> refer to using mingw gnu make, rather than some other compiler...??
>
> ** I'm not sure about that; but in any case it fails at configuring
> mingw::fontconfig so that may be the first problem to solve. Error below
> ---
> .
> configure: error: Package requirements (freetype2) were not met:
>
> Package zlib was not found in the pkg-config search path.
> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `zlib.pc'
> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
> Package 'zlib', required by 'FreeType 2', not found
> 
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
>
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Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

Hi all,

Apologies for the potentially "blindingly obvious" question, bu't having
read the devel webpages about compiling Lilypond for mingw/Windows, I'm
none the wiser.

I can compile for native linux using the gnu make (via the
smart-autoconf.sh script). However, I'm trying to track down a crash in
Windows, and according to the website/docs it's impossible to compile
natively* -- so need a cross-compile.

I note the existance of "GUB", but this appears to use the main repository
as source**. But obviously, I need to compile from my working copy after
I've put a bunch of tracing code in.

This document
http://www.gnu.org/software/lilypond/src/Developers/Packaging/windows.html
appears
to be out of date. I found "janneke"'s patches at
http://lilypond.org/people/janneke/software/cygwin/mknetrel/ but it's not
clear from where mknetrel itself should be obtained.

My dev environment is Ubuntu 16 (or 14). Any hints or tips or redirection
towards the relevant instructions would be welcome!

Chris

---

* assuming the statement about compiling natively under Windows _does_not_
refer to using mingw gnu make, rather than some other compiler...??

** I'm not sure about that; but in any case it fails at configuring
mingw::fontconfig so that may be the first problem to solve. Error below
---
.
configure: error: Package requirements (freetype2) were not met:

Package zlib was not found in the pkg-config search path.
Perhaps you should add the directory containing `zlib.pc'
to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
Package 'zlib', required by 'FreeType 2', not found

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Re: Building Lilypond on Ubuntu 16.04

[Chris Yate]

On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 at 10:14 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > What I did was:
> >
> > $ sudo ln -s /usr/include/freetype2/freetype/config
> /usr/include/freetype2/config
> > $ sudo sed -i 's|/freetype2$|/freetype2/freetype|'
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/freetype2.pc
> > $ ./configure
> > $ make
> >
> > Which gives me a working lilypond 2.19.49.  What I didn't try
> > previously was the first step, i.e. the symbolic link to the config
> > folder.
>
> I don't understand why such links are necessary.  It should work out
> of the box without *any* links.  Have you tried that?


Yep, it builds fine for me once I did "sudo apt install ..." for all the
(many) required dependencies. I *think* all I needed to do was
"./smart_autoconf.sh" and "make all"

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 at 09:38 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/18/16 4:00 PM, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:
>>> >Chris,
>>> >
>>> >Here's a patch.  But as Werner pointed out, it's not quite done yet.  I
>>> >think I need to improve the badness scoring in order to get better
>>> >configurations from which to remove excess dots.
>>
>>
Carl,

I'm beginning to understand the code, mainly thanks to reading your
changes.

The problems with example #23 seem to be due to the dots being pushed
further and further away from their noteheads.

Looking at the results, I suspect the positioning algorithm should try to
place dots on the space-notes first, then work the line-notes around them.

Additionally, chord-dots-limit might be used to limit how far away the dots
can be 'shifted' during the calculation process, rather than pruning the
excess dots after the fact.

I'm not sure how best to change the rather complicated calc_positioning
function to achieve that (and more importantly have to go to work now!) :-)

cheers,

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 at 02:31 Carl Sorensen  wrote:

> On 9/18/16 4:00 PM, "Carl Sorensen"  wrote:
> >Chris,
> >
> >Here's a patch.  But as Werner pointed out, it's not quite done yet.  I
> >think I need to improve the badness scoring in order to get better
> >configurations from which to remove excess dots.
>
> There are two comments in the code that are wrong.
>

That's why I try to avoid writing _any_ comments in my coding ;)

As for the results, it seems there's some strange results with
chord-dots-limit = 0. #3 and #4 for example -- it seems it's ignoring notes
on a line.

Whilst I understand the zero in your new logic would strictly mean removing
those, I think the "dot distance" for a note on a line should be counted
from the adjacent space. Either that, or throw an exception on setting the
value to zero...?

There's another strange situation for dots-limit 0 in #9, where the D
inexplicably has no dot.

thanks!

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 18 Sep 2016 17:37, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > OK, I have rewritten the code for augmentation dot positioning.
>
> Great, and thanks a lot!
>
> > Personally, I like the results of this code better than the Gould
> > recommendations.  I would use this code, and make the default value
> > of chord-dots-limit be 1.
>
> I agree.
>
> > I'm attaching a copy of Dots.pdf created with the new code.  I have
> > not updated any of the markups describing the results, because this
> > allows you to better see the differences, I think.
>
> This looks very good, but there are two glitches, namely 13b and 23b,
> which can't be right.  23c looks wrong, too.
>
>
> Werner

Hi Carl, thanks! I'll take a look later today. Would you be happy to send
me a patch for the current source code HEAD?  (Or just the modified file).

I was looking at the current code on Friday to try and understand it, so it
would be good to see what you've changed. Also to have a local build with
the fix in!!

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

Oh yeah, these examples are a case in point! The first seems to suggest
dots should stay within the area of the chord, while the second suggests
it's ok to have dots extending the chord as long as they're balanced
vertically.

Fundamentally the only difference between these situations is the size of
the chord. I'm not yet convinced that Gould has a hard and fast rule.

It's probably irrelevant, but a very small sample of my musician friends
suggests that dots shouldn't be placed further away than the next space
above/below the top/bottom of the chord. When I posted a picture of the
five-note tone cluster with five dots, the overall reaction was "WTF?!
Yuck!". IMO that should tell us all we need to know...

But for the scope of this software, being able to easily get the result
*you* want is the important thing.

On 15 Sep 2016 23:43, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:

>
>
> On 9/15/16 4:15 PM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Please note I'm working without her examples,  but I disagree about
> >[Lilypond's interpretation of] Gould's rules, because they appear to be
> >in contradiction with **every piece of published music I've ever seen**.
> >Given just her text, I think she has possibly not worded things as
> >clearly as possible. And if it is correct to have five dots on a chord
> >spanning a ninth == five spaces, then why is it incorrect to have three
> >dots for a chord spanning three spaces?
> >The place that her rules stop making sense is this inconsistency:
> >1. It's ok to have a dot a full two staff positions away from the top or
> >bottom of the chord.
> >2. BUT... if there's a dot that according to the rules turns up to be two
> >spaces away, don't place ANY notes outside the range of spaces occupied
> >by the chord *.
> >* spaces occupied by the chord includes the half space occupied by part
> >of a notehead on a line.
>
> But this "inconsistency" that you find, is exactly illustrated in her
> examples.  She shows *precisely* the behavior you find inconsistent as the
> recommended behavior. See Gould2.png.  Gould is silent on whether the
> spaces occupied by the chord includes the half-space or not, and none of
> her examples include a note that would use the half-space.  So I don't
> disagree with you.
>
> >I think what she actually meant, and basing this also on guides like the
> >ABRSM theory books, is
> >
> >- every note needs a dot, where possible
> >- notes on a line need their dot moving up or down to the nearest space
> >- sometimes the dot needs to shift away from its parent, and that's ok
> >within the compass of the chord
>
> In your example 14, with a dots limit of 3, the dot from the E moves to
> the F space, and the dot from the F moves to the A space (within the
> compass of the chord), and you consider the dot on the A space to be
> unnecessary.  So my interpretation of your personal preference is that
> you'd prefer to never have a dot moved more than one staff position away
> from its "home".
>
> Gould would put the dot in the A space, according to the written rules.
> You accept it, but believe it's unnecessary.  If it's unnecessary, I think
> we should leave it out, because it's just clutter.  I'm reading that if
> you had your preferred style, it would be left out.  And I think LilyPond
> should have some way to support your preferred style.
>
> >- dots two or more staff _positions_ (not staff _spaces_ as written) away
> >from the top or bottom of the chord look strange, so exclude those.
>
> Gould specifically shows dot patterns with dots two staff positions away
> from a note in a space.  I included them previously, and include them
> again here as gould1.png.
>
> Note that in gould2.png, the dots that would be only two staff positions
> (one space) away from the top and bottom of the chord *are* excluded, not
> just the one that is four positions (two spaces) away.
>
> I'm going to send you (by separate email) a scan of Gould's section on
> dotted notes.  I'd be happy to have you show me how I've misunderstood her
> rules (if in fact I have).  But I'm quite sure that I have them right
> (with the possible exception of the spaces occupied by the chord including
> the half-spaces of notes on the line).
>
> >
> >Pragmatically though, I strongly believe it's a mistake for Lilypond's
> >defaults to go against the grain of what most readers of music expect and
> >have learnt to expect, even if the holy grail appears to say it's "right".
>
> Counterexamples from high-quality hand-engraved music are certainly
> welcome.   Contrary rules from other notation experts (e.g. Ross

Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 15 Sep 2016 22:45, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On 9/15/16 10:41 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:>
> >
> >I think the trouble with Gould's rules is that they're inconsistent, or
> >could at least be interpreted in such a way.  She says to use dots only
> >on the spaces occupied by the chord, and yet says you MAY need to put a
> >dot a space or more away from the chord.
>
> No, let me summarize Gould's rules.
>
> Rule 1: Every notehead in a chord must take a duration dot.
>
> Rule 2: Move dots away from a note head on a line by moving it either up
> or down (she has some guidelines for how to do this, but I'm skipping them
> right now)
>
> Rule 3: Every dot needs to have a staff space to itself.  This implies
> (although it's not explicitly stated, but it is shown) that you may need
> to move dots farther than one staff space away from the note head.
>
> Rule 4: Center the dots on the chord.  This fixes problems that may show
> up by applying rule 3.
>
> Rule 5: If one of the remaining dots is two or more staff spaces from the
> chord, the dot pattern is bad, so instead of having one dot per note head,
> just have one dot per staff space included in the chord.
>
> Every example she shows is consistent with these rules.  The examples you
> show from Sibelius are not consistent with these rules.  That doesn't make
> them wrong, just inconsistent with Gould.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >At the very least, we should be able to decide in our own scores what
> >logic is used for dot placement :-)
>
> Yes.  Perhaps we could make a scheme callback for cleaning up dots.  And
> that could become a property of a DotColumn, and the user would be free to
> implement their own Scheme function for cleaning up the dots.
>
> >
> >
> >Are you editing the code in dot-column.cc. or is there some Scheme code
> >for this too?
>
> Just editing code in dot-column.cc.  No Scheme code anywhere that I can
> see.
>
> So what rules do you use to decide when a dot is necessary below the
> bottom note of a chord, above the top of a chord, or in the middle of a
> chord with an interval larger than a third?
>
> Looking at your statements in Dots.ly, I would infer the following rules:
>
>
> 1. Put dots next to note heads on staff spaces.
> 2. Put dots in the space above note heads on staff lines.  If the space is
> already taken, and the space below the note head is available, place the
> dot in the space below the note head.  If the space is already taken, and
> the space below the note head is taken as well, omit the dot.
>
>
> I think those two rules provide the dots that you have considered to be
> necessary in Dots.ly, without any of the dots you consider unnecessary.

Please note I'm working without her examples,  but I disagree about
[Lilypond's interpretation of] Gould's rules, because they appear to be in
contradiction with **every piece of published music I've ever seen**.

Given just her text, I think she has possibly not worded things as clearly
as possible. And if it is correct to have five dots on a chord spanning a
ninth == five spaces, then why is it incorrect to have three dots for a
chord spanning three spaces?

The place that her rules stop making sense is this inconsistency:

1. It's ok to have a dot a full two staff positions away from the top or
bottom of the chord.

2. BUT... if there's a dot that according to the rules turns up to be two
spaces away, don't place ANY notes outside the range of spaces occupied by
the chord *.

* spaces occupied by the chord includes the half space occupied by part of
a notehead on a line.

I think what she actually meant, and basing this also on guides like the
ABRSM theory books, is

- every note needs a dot, where possible
- notes on a line need their dot moving up or down to the nearest space
- sometimes the dot needs to shift away from its parent, and that's ok
within the compass of the chord
- dots two or more staff _positions_ (not staff _spaces_ as written) away
from the top or bottom of the chord look strange, so exclude those.

Pragmatically though, I strongly believe it's a mistake for Lilypond's
defaults to go against the grain of what most readers of music expect and
have learnt to expect, even if the holy grail appears to say it's "right".

Thanks, Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 17:33 Carl Sorensen  wrote:

>
> I note that sib1.png is exactly the same chord as in the Gould scan.  And
> it has two less dots than Gould shows.  So it's not consistent with Gould.
>

I'm not quite sure what she's showing in that example you scanned, but I
thought it was about centering the dots.

If the trim rule for Gould were "trim to the chord spaces if the dot
> spaces are two or more staff spaces larger than the chord spaces", then
> we'd get the Sibelius output.
>

If you could check what she shows for the 9th-spanned cluster chord (which
Brian mentioned above) -- Brian said she shows only five dots there. So
perhaps she's not self-consistent.


> The current logic doesn't reflect Gould's rules at all, as it only refers
> to the number of staff positions taken by the chord, not the number of
> staff spaces taken by the chord.  And Gould clearly considers staff spaces
> to be the important metric in her rules.
>

I think the trouble with Gould's rules is that they're inconsistent, or
could at least be interpreted in such a way.  She says to use dots only on
the spaces occupied by the chord, and yet says you MAY need to put a dot a
space or more away from the chord.


> So the challenge is to figure out a way to implement Gould's rules with
> some adjustable parameter that allow us to get Sibelius's rules.


At the very least, we should be able to decide in our own scores what logic
is used for dot placement :-)

Are you editing the code in dot-column.cc. or is there some Scheme code for
this too?

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

For the sake of argument, here's what Sibelius does in similar
circumstances, and which I think is right, and actually within the spirit
of Gould's coments.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 16:37 Carl Sorensen  wrote:That
certainly is strange.  I wonder why it drops to four dots instead of

> 5, given that there are 5 notes in the cluster.  And the G space dot would
> only be two staff positions away from the E.
>
> I'm looking into the code now.  I'll see if I can figure out what's going
> on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>

There appears to be a bias towards placing dots beneath the chord in
certain conditions.

Apparently there's an example in Gould of chords spanning a ninth, such as:

A)
\new Staff {
 \relative c' { 2. }
}
and
B)
\new Staff {
  \relative c' { 2. }
}

for A, dots limit 0 or 1 gives a sensible result with five dots, as does 4
or 5 with seven -- depending on your preference.

for B,  we need dots limit 3 to get six evenly spaced dots. Any higher than
4 and theres unnecessary dots.

Hopefully you'll find something :)
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 15:22 Carl Sorensen <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:

>
>
> On 9/15/16 7:36 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Carl, the key is the last bit of Gould's text as quoted by Brian above:
> >"When a dot is forced to be two or more stave-spaces from the chord, its
> >function becomes less relevant. In such cases, use only as many dots as
> >cover the number of stave-spaces taken up by the chord."
> >In my 30-odd years experience of reading music I don't think I've ever
> >seen augmentation dots extending even a full space away from a chord
> >(apart from moving a half-step above or below a line-note).
>
> Please see attached scan from Gould.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl


Thanks -- but that example is about balancing the dots around a chord,
which I believe we're not disagreed about.  (This scanned example is
related her statement about not placing the dots in one direction).

And yet:
\relative c' { <a' b c d e>2. }
does not produce the output she suggests for this chord. I need
chord-dots-limit = 4 for that.
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 14:36 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > According to Gould, I believe that dots limit 3 is the correct setting.
>

OK. On reflection, perhaps I can see your reasoning, although I disagree
that the current situation reliably produces the notation one would expect.
And it's insufficiently controllable.

In any case, I might argue "chord-dots-limit" isn't unambiguously explained

". Limits the column of dots on each chord to the height of the chord plus
chord-dots-limit staff-positions."

In situation 1 in my test cases, the height of the chord is 4
staff-positions... or is it 2 and a half staff-spaces?

Should I want in example 2, to have dots on the D, F, A spaces and not on
B, then chord-dots-limit=1 might be interpreted to suppress the dot that's
2 staff positions away from the chord (on B space) and place one 1 staff
position _above_ the chord, on A.  The dotsUp and dotsDown settings don't
appear to have any effect here.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 15 Sep 2016 14:27, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 9/14/16 9:05 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >Attached with some extra cases I'd forgotten about (the inverted versions
> >of the final 6.
>
> According to Gould, I believe that dots limit 3 is the correct setting.
>
> Case 1: Gould says that the dot in the A space is correct.  The only dots
> she removes are dots that are 2 staff spaces or more away from the chord
> (p. 56); the A space is only one staff space away.
>
> Case 2: Similarly, the B space dot is correct according to Gould.
>
> Case 9: Just as in case 2, the B space dot is correct.
>
> Case 10: The C space dot is correct according to Gould -- one staff space
> above chord.
>
> Case 12: See cases 2 and 9; B space dot is one staff space below chord
>
> Case 13: I am unsure about the G dot -- it's one and a half staff spaces
> below the chord, so by Gould's strict rule, it should be there, I guess.
> But I prefer it gone.
>
> Case 14: I'm not sure why you consider the A space dot unnecessary.
> According to Gould's rules, it should be there.
>
> Case 15: Same as case 14.
>
> Case 16: As in cases 2 and 9, Gould suggests the B space dot belongs.
>
> Case 17: Same as 16
>
> Case 18: Same as 16
>
> Case 19: Same as 16
>
> Case 20: Gould's rules say A space dot is correct.
>
> Case 21: Same as 20
>
> Case 23: Same as 16
>
> Case 24: Gould's rules say G space dot is correct.
>
> Case 25: Gould's rules say B space dot is correct.
>
> In short, dots limit 3 never fails according to Chris's rules, and appears
> to me to be exactly correct with respect to Gould's rules.  So I have a
> hard time seeing what the issue is.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl

Carl, the key is the last bit of Gould's text as quoted by Brian above:

"When a dot is forced to be two or more stave-spaces from the chord, its
function becomes less relevant. In such cases,* use only as many dots as
cover the number of stave-spaces taken up by the chord*."

In my 30-odd years experience of reading music I don't think I've ever seen
augmentation dots extending even a full space away from a chord (apart from
moving a half-step above or below a line-note).

On 15 Sep 2016 14:27, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:



On 9/14/16 9:05 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>Attached with some extra cases I'd forgotten about (the inverted versions
>of the final 6.

According to Gould, I believe that dots limit 3 is the correct setting.

Case 1: Gould says that the dot in the A space is correct.  The only dots
she removes are dots that are 2 staff spaces or more away from the chord
(p. 56); the A space is only one staff space away.

Case 2: Similarly, the B space dot is correct according to Gould.

Case 9: Just as in case 2, the B space dot is correct.

Case 10: The C space dot is correct according to Gould -- one staff space
above chord.

Case 12: See cases 2 and 9; B space dot is one staff space below chord

Case 13: I am unsure about the G dot -- it's one and a half staff spaces
below the chord, so by Gould's strict rule, it should be there, I guess.
But I prefer it gone.

Case 14: I'm not sure why you consider the A space dot unnecessary.
According to Gould's rules, it should be there.

Case 15: Same as case 14.

Case 16: As in cases 2 and 9, Gould suggests the B space dot belongs.

Case 17: Same as 16

Case 18: Same as 16

Case 19: Same as 16

Case 20: Gould's rules say A space dot is correct.

Case 21: Same as 20

Case 23: Same as 16

Case 24: Gould's rules say G space dot is correct.

Case 25: Gould's rules say B space dot is correct.

In short, dots limit 3 never fails according to Chris's rules, and appears
to me to be exactly correct with respect to Gould's rules.  So I have a
hard time seeing what the issue is.

Thanks,

Carl
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 15:20 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 15:18 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 14:55 Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > Here's some test cases. I doubt this is the best place to post them
>>> > (bugs list?) but they're relevant to the conversation.
>>>
>>> Thanks!  However, your PDF file was not in sync with the input file;
>>> I've taken the opportunity to clean up the file and to add some `OK'
>>> and `FAIL' strings.  Please check.
>>
>> Werner
>>>
>>
>> Thanks - this is clearer. (and yes, there was a mistake in the final set
>> (cut and paste issue) with the unnecessary dot on B not A).
>>
>> Did you intentionally mark those examples with unnecessary dots as "OK",
>> rather than "FAIL"? In my opinion, they should probably be failure cases.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Errata: The
>

Apologies, sent in error:

The "Extension above 4-note line top cluster with a 3rd" examples for
dot-limits 1,2 should also have "unnecessary dot on B space".

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 15:18 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 14:55 Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> > Here's some test cases. I doubt this is the best place to post them
>> > (bugs list?) but they're relevant to the conversation.
>>
>> Thanks!  However, your PDF file was not in sync with the input file;
>> I've taken the opportunity to clean up the file and to add some `OK'
>> and `FAIL' strings.  Please check.
>
> Werner
>>
>
> Thanks - this is clearer. (and yes, there was a mistake in the final set
> (cut and paste issue) with the unnecessary dot on B not A).
>
> Did you intentionally mark those examples with unnecessary dots as "OK",
> rather than "FAIL"? In my opinion, they should probably be failure cases.
>
> Chris
>

Errata: The
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 14:55 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > Here's some test cases. I doubt this is the best place to post them
> > (bugs list?) but they're relevant to the conversation.
>
> Thanks!  However, your PDF file was not in sync with the input file;
> I've taken the opportunity to clean up the file and to add some `OK'
> and `FAIL' strings.  Please check.

Werner
>

Thanks - this is clearer. (and yes, there was a mistake in the final set
(cut and paste issue) with the unnecessary dot on B not A).

Did you intentionally mark those examples with unnecessary dots as "OK",
rather than "FAIL"? In my opinion, they should probably be failure cases.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 11:58 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> >> However, you have found a bug I think, since it doesn't seem to
> >> work correctly for your case, eliminating dots on the wrong side of
> >> the chord.
> >
> > Also, it’s clearly wrong to have dots in two ‘columns’. They look
> > like double-dotted notes.
>
> Please have a closer look!  The lower chords in the first bar have a
> `4..' rhythm, the upper ones have `4.'.
> Werner
>

I've just rendered that example (below), and the first chord has the
double-dot the _space_below_ the "f4.." note. Which is almost certainly
wrong behaviour :(

Chris

ex.from the chord-dot regression:

\version "2.17.16"

\header {
  texidoc =
"The column of dots on a chord is limited to the height
of the chord plus @code{chord-dots-limit} staff-positions."
}

\layout{ ragged-right = ##t }

\new Staff \transpose c c' {
  \override Staff.DotColumn.chord-dots-limit = #1
  <<
{ 4. r8 4. r8 } \\
{ f4.. r16 4.. r16}
  >>
}
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 14 Sep 2016 04:26, "Brian Barker" <b.m.bar...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> At 23:50 13/09/2016 +, Chris Yate wrote:
>>
>> Could someone that owns a copy of Gould chip in with a "best practice"
recommendation?
>
>
> I've not been following this thread in detail, so I'm not sure if this is
what you need. This from pages 55 and 56. (I'm aware the last sentence
contradicts the first.)
>
> Every notehead in a chord must take a duration dot. Vertically align the
dots after the chord.
> *Adjacent-note chords*
> When the upper note is on a line, the dot moves up to the next
stave-space, as usual. When the lower note is on a line, the dot drops to
the lower space.
> Each dot should have a stave-space to itself. This same spacing applies
to chords on ledger lines as well, where dots should not be bunched up just
because there are no stave lines to separate them into individual spaces.
> A dot may need to move a stave-space away from its notehead.
> Centre the dots on the chord, rather than placing them in one direction,
away from the chord.
> When a dot is forced to be two or more stave-spaces from the chord, its
function becomes less relevant. In such cases, use only as many dots as
cover the number of stave-spaces taken up by the chord.
>
> Her example of the last dictum has a chord of eight notes (spanning a
ninth) having a column of only five dots.
>
> Brian Barker

Perfect. Thanks. Although she said a dot may need to be moved a stave-space
away from its note, it typically looks wrong to me, and using only the
spaces occupied by the chord is right. However, that's why we have
\override directives...

One situation that apparently causes a "floating" dot is { d f fis },
assuming f and fis share a space. Since they are in the same staff position
it seems appropriate for them to share a dot.

The case of dotted chords coinciding in multiple voices probably has to be
treated separately. I think in that case the chords should move
horizontally to allow their dots to live next to the appropriate note heads
- but it is a different bug/feature.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 at 19:55 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

> It's issue 3179
>
>   https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/3179/
>
> and commit dfff5d3d1a1001f65d1f7183837f56ccd64fb15a
>
>
> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/lilypond.git/commit/?id=dfff5d3d1a1001f65d1f7183837f56ccd64fb15a
>
> > There's no way I should see a dot placed on the space above or below
> > a note on a space -- obviously notes on a line are a different
> > matter.  As far as I can tell the default should be never to place
> > the dot more than one staff position away from the top or bottom
> > note of a chord.
>
> Hmm.  For some reasons the default value of `chord-dots-limit' is set
> to 3.  I can't remember why Keith has decided to use this number, but
> I would rather change the default to value 0.
>
> Werner
>

Zero dosn't an ideal choice in the situations I've been testing; I think 1
is safer.

e.g. here misses a dot on the space above g'
```
\version "2.19.45"
\new Staff {
   \override Staff.DotColumn.chord-dots-limit = 0
   < b d' e' f' g' >2.
}
```
This chord needs a setting of 1.

This example even worse (actually taken from the piano part of my
composition, which inspired the problem:
```
\version "2.19.45"
\new Staff {
   \override Staff.DotColumn.chord-dots-limit = 0
   \relative c'{   2. }
}
```
With dots limit 0 the a (treble clef 2nd space) gets no dot. With the
default chord-dots-limit = 3 there's a dot on the B- and G-spaces below
treble clef.

It's easy to produce a really horrible chord that confuses things
completely, and having two voices is by far the best way -- this I implied
by reference to the other issue on sourceforge about dot positioning around
shared vertical beams. Sensible writing would separate the two voices
horizontally for clarity, and that's how they should be dotted. (If one
ever came across such a pathological case in the wild).

But with a single voice it should be possible to come up with conclusive
test cases for every possibility (ignoring chromatic clusters like `< c cis
d dis e f  >`, which in any case aren't typeset very well by standard
methods).  I'd be happy to try to come up with the test cases, but
understanding and bug-fixing Scheme code gives me a headache ;-)

Could someone that owns a copy of Gould chip in with a "best practice"
recommendation? Once the maths bit is specified it should be relatively
easy to code.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 at 18:53 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> However, you have found a bug I think, since it doesn't seem to work
>> correctly for your case, eliminating dots on the wrong side of the
>> chord
>>
>
This may be related (or fixed by?)

https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/2201/
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 at 06:24 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > The issue occurs when writing closely spaced chords with an
> > augmentation dot in the rhythm. Dots are placed only on spaces
> > (which we should expect), but in certain very easy to reproduce
> > conditions, the dot appears in an unexpected place.
>
> Cf. `regression/chord-dots.ly'; this is controlled by the
> `chord-dots-limit' property.
>
> However, you have found a bug I think, since it doesn't seem to work
> correctly for your case, eliminating dots on the wrong side of the
> chord.
>
>
> Werner
>

Thanks Werner. That's potentially a useful workaround. But the default
behaviour is obviously broken. There's no way I should see a dot placed on
the space above or below a note on a space -- obviously notes on a line are
a different matter.  As far as I can tell the default should be never to
place the dot more than one staff position away from the top or bottom note
of a chord.

Chris
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Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

Hi all,

I have only rarely typeset piano music in the past, which is probably why I
haven't come across this issue before.

The issue occurs when writing closely spaced chords with an augmentation
dot in the rhythm. Dots are placed only on spaces (which we should expect),
but in certain very easy to reproduce conditions, the dot appears in an
unexpected place.

\version "2.19.45"
\relative c' {
  < g c d e f>2. }

The attached image shows dots unexpectedly positioned on the A space and B
space below the staff. I'm not sure what the "correct" notation should be
in this situation, but writing by hand I would place dots on the spaces for
G, D and F.

Interestingly, I found a 4 year old Musescore bug report for this issue
which mentions Lilypond 2.15 having problems.

https://musescore.org/en/node/15434

We can readily reproduce a pathological case (image also attached).

\version "2.19.45"
\relative c' {
<<  < g c d e f>2. \\ < bes dis e fis >4. >>
}

The question for the list being, what workarounds are there for strangely
placed augmentation dots?  Perhaps suppressing the dots for certain notes?

Thanks in advance,

Chris
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Re: bis

[Chris Yate]

Erik,

Do you want it to reproduce that in Midi, or just create the appropriate
markup?

Could you create a mockup of what you want and post it (I'm sure it's
possible if not quite easy to create the output). It's not a style of
repeats I've ever seen.

Chris


On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 at 00:24  wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> Does Lilypond have a built-in way of making "bis" repeats? I.e. a
> horizontal bracket over one or a few measures with the word "bis",
> indicating that the section is to be played twice.
>
> Regards
> Erik
>
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Re: I am not top posting

[Chris Yate]

Hi Robert,

Out of interest, what interface are you using?

Chris

On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 at 14:17 Robert Edge 
wrote:

> Thank you, that is precisely what was happening.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:49 AM, Nathan Ho  wrote:
>
>> On 2016-07-23 21:05, Robert Edge wrote:
>>
>>> I have no idea why, but this interface won't let me ask a question.  It
>>> says
>>> I am top posting.
>>>
>>> I am not top posting.  I have not quoted anything.
>>>
>>> How do I send a message to this list?
>>>
>>
>> Sometimes if you have ">" symbols in LilyPond code, the list gets
>> confused. If that happens, put this at the top of the message:
>>
>> I'm not top posting.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>
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Re: Easy way to switch off transpositions

[Chris Yate]

Hi all,

It seems it's been a year since I looked at this problem, and I've just
figured out some kind of solution.

Applying the "optionalTranspose" function (see below) to each voice allows
me to globally switch all transposition on and off, so as to achieve either
a transposed or concert pitch score. This is really useful when dealing
with brass band music, as a quick check of pitches without mental
transposition.

I can define something like

bflatBassMusic = {
 \key g \major
  a b c d e
  }

bflatBassVoice = {
 % stuff
 \optionalTranspose treble bass bis c'' \relative c
  {
\bflatBassMusic
  }
}

Question: In order to avoid an "unbound variable" error, I have to define
the switch variable "transposing-score" ahead of including the
"optionalTranspose.lyi" file that contains my function.

This isn't very tidy. Is there a cleaner way of creating a "switch"
variable, or perhaps to detect the unbound variable as being a null value?
Or to define it above the function definition and let me reset it later in
the code, perhaps in a globals = {... } block?

I'd also appreciate any other suggestions for improvement of this code. I
think it is a useful enough thing to go on the LSR if it is perhaps refined
a little.

Thanks in advance,

Chris


-
#(define transposing-score #f)

optionalTranspose =
#(define-music-function (parser location transposing-clef concert-clef from
to music)
  ( string? string? ly:pitch? ly:pitch? ly:music?)
  (if (eq? #t transposing-score)
   #{
 \clef #transposing-clef
 \transpose #from #to #music
   #}
#{
  \clef #concert-clef
 #music
   #}
   )
  )
-


On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 at 00:14 David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:

> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On 12 July 2015 at 23:02, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > I find it would be very convenient every now and again to be able to
> >> change
> >> > a score to be non-transposing -- in order to easily check pitches etc.
> >> >
> >> > Any better approaches?
> >>
> >> Well, the Midi should be fine already, so you need this just for
> >> proofreading.  And for that, you should be able to just transpose back
> >> again.
> >>
> >> Another possibility is working with music quotes: those are always in
> >> concert pitch.
> >
> > Ah -- applying the inverse transposition on each voice, in the concert
> > pitch score?  Of course! Yes, I think that would work, will give it a go.
>
> Getting the Midi transpositions out will likely work in 2.19.24 by using
> the redefinition
>
> transposition = \tag per-instrument \transposition \etc
>
> in your general includes and then using
>
> \removeTag per-instrument ...
>
> on the music expressions in the partitura.  The syntactic sugar \etc is
> issue 4487 and will likely appear in origin/master within a week.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
\version "2.19.35"

#(define transposing-score #f)

optionalTranspose =
#(define-music-function (parser location transposing-clef concert-clef from to music)
  ( string? string? ly:pitch? ly:pitch? ly:music?)
  (if (eq? #t transposing-score)
   #{
 \clef #transposing-clef
 \transpose #from #to #music
   #}
#{
  \clef #concert-clef
 #music
   #}
   )
  )

\optionalTranspose treble bass bis c'' \relative c { a b c d e }

#(define transposing-score #t)

\optionalTranspose treble bass bes c'' \relative c { a b c d e }

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Re: [OT] sorry for the spam

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 11 May 2016 at 08:39 Johan Vromans  wrote:

> > There are a few websites that
> > provide strong password generators that make pretty much uncrackable
> > passwords.
>
>
Password Security:
https://xkcd.com/936/
 ;-)

There's no point having passwords that you can't remember; in an office
situation it leads to writing them down which is a worse risk; and IMHO,
it's very unlikely that anyone will actually "crack" them anyway.

More likely they'll get a keylogger installed on your PC and steal the
passwords that way. Or get you via a phishing scam. As for email spoofing,
as others have said, it's very easy to fake the "from" address.

Chris
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Re: London-Heathrow

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 4 May 2016 at 19:35 Wols Lists  wrote:

>
> And leaves you in Paddington? Okay, there's still a lot in the area, but
> it's not exactly the most touristic bit there. I don't know that area
> that well, you've got, what, Little Venice, Regent's Park, Madame Tussauds?


No, well I could recommend a good pub near Paddington
http://www.mitrelancastergate.com/ -- but in general it's not that great an
area. Quite a few dodgy massage parlours, if that's your thing :-/

So if you do plan to use the tube, there's a general rule of thumb for how
long it takes:
- Allow ten minutes for your journey
- PLUS two minutes for each stop the train makes between the start and
finish of your travel
- PLUS five minutes every time you need to change trains

I also doubt check-in will take 2hrs but Heathrow is a big airport so of
course you need to leave enough time to get to your gate, even if the
customs/security queue is quick.

Chris
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Re: London-Heathrow

[Chris Yate]

On 4 May 2016 at 15:25, Wols Lists  wrote:
> If you just want to do some sightseeing, I'd suggest getting the
> Picadilly to Leicester Square (50 mins). That's in the middle of Soho,
> or China Town. Head south to the river, and it takes you to Trafalgar
> Square, Charing Cross Road, St Martin in the Fields, that sort of area.
> From Trafalgar Square you can head down to Westminster and the Houses of
> Parliament. (Then you can catch the Jubilee to Green Park and Picadilly
> back to Heathrow.)
>
> As an alternative, get off at Green Park and walk down past the Palace.
> And all the places I've suggested are some distance from the City of
> London :-)
>
> You'll need an Oyster Card (a smart-card that lets you use the transport
> system), and there'll be details on the tfl website. I'm sure me and/or
> other Londoners will chime in if you want to know any more.
>

You can buy the Oyster Card at most ticket machines. There's a £5
deposit that's refundable, and you load it with cash.

But you DON'T want an Oyster for your purposes. Get a Zone 1-2 Day
Travelcard plus the return from Heathrow. Unless you're staying for a
few days refunding the card is probably going to be a hassle.

If you do go to Trafalgar Square*, there's the National Gallery and
Portrait Gallery too, and both aree free to visit IIRC (you're
encouraged to leave a donation).

If you like museums there's some good ones out towards South
Kensington (Science, Natural History, Victoria and Albert, etc.).

 Chris

* (tube stations either Trafalgar Sq itself, Charing Cross, or
Embankment will do... depending where you're coming from).

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 29 April 2016 at 22:06, David Bellows  wrote:
>. I know a lot of people avoid Reddit, and for very good reasons,

I think it's almost as bad a time-sink as TVTropes. Actually, Stack
sites can be too.

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 29 April 2016 at 11:59, Johan Vromans  wrote:
>
> I have a very strong preference for one single place where all information
> lives. And I'm very happy with this mailing list.

Yes, although I personally find StackOverflow a far better way of
asking, answering and recalling questions, there's a heap of history
here that's very valuable.

> The last time I tried to ask a question on StackWhatever I was (un)kindly
> directed to another sub-StackWhatever, and then to another, and to another,
> so I just gave up.

Well, From reading StackOverflow a **lot** for work purposes, that's
usually because the question's in the wrong forum (or at least someone
thinks it is).

One downside to SO is that there are people who take great pleasure in
closing questions that "aren't a proper question", and so on. It's
better than the traditional kind of forum for coding questions (which
is 95% of this list). Whether it's better than a mailing list is a
different argument.

Whilst a Lilypond SO forum would be more publicly available than this
list, it wouldn't be as technically accessible to all concerned
(particularly the terminal window fans! :-) ).

However, I think it could only make Lilypond more accessible to the
general user. Does anyone actively object to the idea of having one?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 29 April 2016 at 11:20, Andrew Bernard  wrote:
>
> Since this is the longest thread in recent memory - interesting
> because it is a meta-thread really - I wonder if we should consider
> using some forum type software for lilypond matters?

There's some Lilypond questions on the tex StackExchange forum, and you'll
find some on the StackOverflow too. But that is a *very* good
alternative medium for what we do here. It's also easily searchable
when you're looking for answers (better than the mailing lists).

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Apr 2016 13:07, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > Would you suggest Frescobaldi is *not* a big improvement in the User
> > Interface for Lilypond development?
>
> No, it isn't.  It is a big improvement for *using* lilypond (well, for
> all those guys and ladies who like IDEs), but for lilypond
> *development* you certainly don't need it.
>
> Werner

For that, you want Visual Studio...

Chris ;)
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Apr 2016 13:07, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > Would you suggest Frescobaldi is *not* a big improvement in the User
> > Interface for Lilypond development?
>
> No, it isn't.  It is a big improvement for *using* lilypond (well, for
> all those guys and ladies who like IDEs), but for lilypond
> *development* you certainly don't need it.
>
> Werner

Subtle point well made.

Cheers! Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 27 April 2016 at 19:25, Anthonys Lists  wrote:
>
> And the reality is, most people HERE, including the most important ones! use 
> simple, plain-text, email clients.
> There's a reason why Outlook Lusers are not welcome on most mailing lists, 
> and that's because the result is incomprehensible, pretty fast!
>
> Why is it that you get so many idiots who think that "ooh, shiny" is the same 
> as "new, improved".
> Lilypond is not aimed at the "ooh shiny" brigade, so if you want to be part 
> of that, please go somewhere else ...

Respectfully, I disagree. Having a shiny AND functional tool (no smut
here, I'm British) is perfectly possible, and wanting to use one
doesn't make you a magpie. It's snobbery -- you might say 'inverted'
snobbery -- to suggest so.

"Shiny" isn't necessarily "improved" but they're not mutually
exclusive. Would you suggest Frescobaldi is *not* a big improvement in
the User Interface for Lilypond development?

Chris

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 27 Apr 2016 12:40 pm, "N. Andrew Walsh"  wrote:
>>
>> In german we have a saying:
>> "Leute fresst Scheisse. Millionen Fliegen können nicht irren."
>
>  Now I'm going to start an argument about your deplorable capitulation to
the masses by abandoning the venerable "ß".

What character set is this in?
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

...to be clear

I understand not everyone uses the same tools and we have different needs.
The thing that tends to rile me is the tone of the complaints.

When it's a legitimate matter of doing things to cooperate with list
software, that's absolutely reasonable. When it's somebody's deeply held
and arbitrary personal belief that top posting is ungodly and a scourge,
that's completely different.

Cheers. Chris


On 27 Apr 2016 12:13 pm, "Chris Yate"
<chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> >

>
> On 27 Apr 2016 12:04, "Andrew Bernard" <andrew.bern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > Although I started this thread, it was purely because David Wright had
mentioned the difficulty to another user, as he had to me. I am not the one
complaining! Wanting to be considerate of all folks on the list I took some
effort to configure my Outlook in Office 365 to produce the correct output
for HTML and plain text email with internet quoting style replies. It can
certainly be done. There is no reason to ask people to stop using Outlook.
What has changed is that its current default behaviour is the opposite of
the past, and I was attempting to alert people to that. Even I was unaware.
>
> I absolutely blame Microsoft for that... It's confusing and overly
difficult. The issue I've had is when working with people that use default
settings, using "text only" (which seemed to be the only way to permanently
achieve "traditional" quoting, at least in the past) is a big problem.
>
> > As to plain text readers, it is a perfectly valid and viable choice. I
know that David Wright uses Mutt which is a very capable and effective UNIX
mail client. I am pretty sure that David Kastrup uses Emacs for email as he
has mentioned issues relating to the way images are included in emails in
the list which my impact emacs users. For people working in a technical
environment on a UNIX platform using a principally text based workflow,
text based email clients can be very effective and very efficient. There is
no sense in which they are outdated. So there are at least two and likely
many more significant contributors to the community using plain text
toolchains.
>
> Yes, of course it's a valid choice. And I recognise it's a particular
issue for people using Accessibility tools. But if you think it's remotely
"normal" to use emacs for email... Well... ;-) it's certainly not the path
of least resistance, is it?
>
> > Urs Liska has written at length on the strengths and advantages of a
plain text toolchain for lilypond in particular. I can’t see how the
concept is old fashioned, or that the world has ‘moved on’. When
intensively developing in a text based toolchain, plain text mail clients
can make a lot of sense.
>
> > In my opinion, internet etiquette would suggest that one be considerate
of the community of mailing list users, and try to accomodate everyone as
best one can. I can’t see why this is not desirable. Or perhaps I am
completely obsolete, and etiquette in general is now considered old
fashioned.
> > Andrew
> >
>
> With all due respect, considerate is as considerate does. Shouting and
screaming because you use some obscure tool that doesn't work the way 99%
of the internet messaging tools in use work, and expect people to be
accommodating of you, isn't considerate.
>
> Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 27 Apr 2016 12:04, "Andrew Bernard"  wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Although I started this thread, it was purely because David Wright had
mentioned the difficulty to another user, as he had to me. I am not the one
complaining! Wanting to be considerate of all folks on the list I took some
effort to configure my Outlook in Office 365 to produce the correct output
for HTML and plain text email with internet quoting style replies. It can
certainly be done. There is no reason to ask people to stop using Outlook.
What has changed is that its current default behaviour is the opposite of
the past, and I was attempting to alert people to that. Even I was unaware.

I absolutely blame Microsoft for that... It's confusing and overly
difficult. The issue I've had is when working with people that use default
settings, using "text only" (which seemed to be the only way to permanently
achieve "traditional" quoting, at least in the past) is a big problem.

> As to plain text readers, it is a perfectly valid and viable choice. I
know that David Wright uses Mutt which is a very capable and effective UNIX
mail client. I am pretty sure that David Kastrup uses Emacs for email as he
has mentioned issues relating to the way images are included in emails in
the list which my impact emacs users. For people working in a technical
environment on a UNIX platform using a principally text based workflow,
text based email clients can be very effective and very efficient. There is
no sense in which they are outdated. So there are at least two and likely
many more significant contributors to the community using plain text
toolchains.

Yes, of course it's a valid choice. And I recognise it's a particular issue
for people using Accessibility tools. But if you think it's remotely
"normal" to use emacs for email... Well... ;-) it's certainly not the path
of least resistance, is it?

> Urs Liska has written at length on the strengths and advantages of a
plain text toolchain for lilypond in particular. I can’t see how the
concept is old fashioned, or that the world has ‘moved on’. When
intensively developing in a text based toolchain, plain text mail clients
can make a lot of sense.

> In my opinion, internet etiquette would suggest that one be considerate
of the community of mailing list users, and try to accomodate everyone as
best one can. I can’t see why this is not desirable. Or perhaps I am
completely obsolete, and etiquette in general is now considered old
fashioned.
> Andrew
>

With all due respect, considerate is as considerate does. Shouting and
screaming because you use some obscure tool that doesn't work the way 99%
of the internet messaging tools in use work, and expect people to be
accommodating of you, isn't considerate.

Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

> The list is plain text only. So if you use a mailer like Outlook and your
default is to send HTML format mail,
> you need to configure Outlook to reply to email in the format in which it
was sent, that is, here, plain text.
> Then list users will get properly formatted plain text replies with
internet style ‘>’ quoting. I am pretty sure
> Outlook used to do this by default, but now it does not, and needs to be
set up to do so.

In my experience it is well-nigh impossible to make Outlook behave like
that without screwing up the way it works* for "normal" email. It's better
to just stop using Outlook. I find Gmail is generally sane, but it
encourages things like inlining images (which I've been told off about here
in the past).

On the other hand, if one is still using Pine for reading email, I think
it's their own fault if they can't read a message. The world has moved on,
and so should our tools.

Chris

* (which in itself is fundamentally broken and confusing)
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

> The reality is that the world, given the ubiquity of broadband and
graphical interfaces, has moved on from plain text.
> It is no longer the standard and has not been for a decade or more- most
Internet users have, I suspect, no knowledge
> of this old standard any longer.  Expecting others to accommodate what is
now an out of date standard will simply
> continue to create issues.  It's like expecting web developers to
accommodate lynx in creating Web pages- probably
> not going to happen very often.
>
> One can choose to use text-only software but at this point we are
responsible for our own problems if we do.
> The world has changed and left us  behind.

I agree, 400%! But realise this is a mailing list run on ancient "mailman"
software, which doesn't cope well with the HTML format when things are
quoted. You should always try not to use fancy features like colour and
font-styles, which are likely not to work for most users and especially not
in the digests and list history. But the slow internet connection issue is
not really a problem for emails, even at the snail-like speed of 1.6GBs.

To be honest, I'd suggest you ignore the people that whinge about HTML
emails, top-posting, etc. For the 20-something years I've been using the
internet there's always been pedantic arses on mailing lists that would
rather beat people up about the format of emails and people's grammar and
spelling than answer the damn question.

Chris
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Re: Bar number moves down inexplicably

[Chris Yate]

On 1 February 2016 at 02:17, David Wright  wrote:

> Coincidentally with Message-ID: <56ae6df7.8010...@gmx.de>
> > It also seems to move the bar number down. Does anybody know why?
> I also have a bar number which moves down for some reason.
>
> The attached snippet shows the problem. Commenting out the \layout
> with % {  →  %{ fixes the bar number but I lose my fermatas (both
> cases attached).
>
> I'm not familiar with the action of Staff_collecting_engraver,
> but I have a feeling the answer/workaround might lie in the page
>
> http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/outside_002dstaff-objects
>
> Cheers,
> David.


Yes, I can reproduce that (on Windows 10, Lilypond 2.19.35).

Begs the question what the "comment" symbol means if text after it on the
line is parsed...

Chris
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 05:35, Paul Morris  wrote:

>
> One idea would be to use triangle shapes for the accidental notes to
> better clarify their relation to the “natural” or rather in-the-key,
> non-accidental, notes.  Like a diatonic-staff version of Reed’s Twinline:
> http://musicnotation.org/system/twinline-notation-by-thomas-reed/
>
> Although, I’m not sure how that would work with sharp or flat notes in a
> given key... (are they ovals or triangles?)
>
> BTW, is there a standard term for non-accidental notes?  You would think
> it would be “natural notes” but sometimes natural notes are also accidental
> notes.
>
>
In a chromatic scale, what are the accidental notes? They're certainly NOT
notes with a sharp or flat, since you may already be in a key signature
with those notes.

Chris
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 12:06, Sharon Rosner  wrote:

>
> But seriously, I see no reason to change a system which works so well for
> so
> many different kinds of music. All these alternative systems, I don't see
> what advantage they offer. On the contrary, there are many downsides -
> they're unsuitable for keyboards, unsuitable for tonal music, unsuitable
> for
> music in unequal temperament, unsuitable for microtonal music, require
> relearning how to read music, make transposition harder. So what's the
> point?
>
> Sharon
>

Well, quite.  Although I can see the benefit of some simplified notation
for chromatic runs, that would only be appropriate for certain types of
music. As it is, you will occasionally see a line between two notes in
modern music, with the explanation that you're supposed to play gliss /
chromatic scales.

But the Simplified Notation says on its website:

"Simplified Music Notation eliminates the need to make constant ‘mental
translations’ for accidentals and key signatures. Players no longer have to
remember the key signature or accidentals, because all flats and sharps are
represented by their own unique symbols."

Right. So all those annoying sharps and flats go away. To be replaced with
weird shaped blobs. So we lose all the advantage of a key signature, which
is designed to simplify the music by hiding implicit "black notes" (for
they are not accidentals).  Clairnote uses "white notes" to achieve the
same increase in visual noise.

I'm sure it's a fine idea if all you play is pieces in C major, but
realistically, it's solving a problem that isn't really there.

Chris
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 16:02, Paul Morris <p...@paulwmorris.com> wrote:

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As it is, when I mark up confusing music I sometimes use an upside-down
> "V" to indicate semitones, "=" to indicate 'same note' and a square bracket
> (like upside down "|__|") between notes to indicate a tone. This is
> occasionally useful to me as an aide-memoire, in stuff where we have lots
> of double-sharps and flats, but it's certainly not "standard".
>
>
> I can’t help but point out, just FWIW, and intending this in a tone of
> respect, and as one consideration among a host of others that might
> outweigh it...
>
> ...that this kind of annotation wouldn’t be needed in a system where the
> differences between intervals (semitone, tone, others...) were clearly and
> consistently represented.
>
> Cheers,
> -Paul
>

Yes, you're probably right.

Though whatever you choose would have to be:

1) equally easy to read in all keys (which is demonstrably NOT the case for
traditional notation)
2) easy to manage when key changes
3) make it easy to identify octaves, and possibly the tonic, and harmonic
relationship between notes etc.
4) suitable for all tessitura, which of course we currently manage with
clefs
5) compact
6) easy to notate by hand
7) avoid confusion with traditional notation (here Clairnote fails very
badly indeed for me)

This discussion has gone way off-topic!
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

Wow. Clairnote looks like an incredibly stupid idea, and a grand disservice
to any poor child who you teach to read it.  Simplified notation is not a
lot better.

Unless they spend their lives playing on their own at home, musicians have
eventually to play with other people who will have learnt a method of
notation that's been good for 400 years.

Chris

On 25 January 2016 at 21:38, Simon Albrecht  wrote:

> On 25.01.2016 22:19, musicus wrote:
>
>> I just struggled with studying a complex music piece and thought that all
>> the chromatic lines are horrible to read in standard notation. Especially
>> the "enharmonic problem" is distracting the musician from a very simple
>> musical structure. So I tried some of my ideas and can present one, which
>> is IMO good to read.
>>
>> See attached. Comments, suggestions are very welcome ;)
>>
>
> Reminds me of Clairnote, a more radical approach, which has also been
> realised with LilyPond: .
>
> Best, Simon
>
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 12:25, musicus  wrote:

> *"1. I like to know where exactly I am at a given time."*
>
> Of course there are always some "key positions", which can help to
> organize yourself while playing (or remembering/ learning etc.).
> Nevertheless I do think that it is important to reduce the optical impact
> to the minimum necessary and therefore as far as I'm concerned I don't want
> to have every single note in a chromatic scale in my perception.
>

I absolutely agree. As a competent sight reader, the problem with chromatic
scales isn't reading chromatic scales but reading the exceptions -- where
it's suddenly a tone between notes.

Now, if you can come up with a consistent and non-confusing way to notate
those differences, that could be useful!

As it is, when I mark up confusing music I sometimes use an upside-down "V"
to indicate semitones, "=" to indicate 'same note' and a square bracket
(like upside down "|__|") between notes to indicate a tone. This is
occasionally useful to me as an aide-memoire, in stuff where we have lots
of double-sharps and flats, but it's certainly not "standard".

Chris
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Re: Determine the including file

[Chris Yate]

On 22 January 2016 at 10:44, Urs Liska  wrote:

> If I have
>
> % file a.ly
> \include "b.ily"
>
> % file b.ily
> \include "c.ily"
>
> % file c.ily
>
> can I somehow refer to file b.ily from file c.ily?
> In other words: If b.ily includes c.ily can I know from within c.ily
> that it was b.ily who included me?
>
> I suppose not, but one should never give up without asking ...
>
> Best
> Urs
>

Hi Urs,

What are you trying to achieve? If you \include "c" at the end of "b", I
imagine the code in "c" will have access to code from "b".

But this smells like a circular dependency that you need to break with a
common include file.

Chris
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Re: Determine the including file

[Chris Yate]

On 22 January 2016 at 11:15, Urs Liska  wrote:

>
> What I'm thinking about is the following:
>
> I have the file openlilylib.ily, which is the main entry point to
> openLilyLib.
> I'm currently changing the way how openLilyLib is organized. Previously
> you loaded openLilyLib, and then you had the command \useLibrary to load
> specific libraries from within openLilyLib.
> In the future the libraries will be in separate repositories each
> (disentangling code, distribution, collaboration and whatever).
> For example you'll have the directories
> openlilylib/scholarly
> openlilylib/oll-core
>
> You'll "load" the ScholarLY library by including its main file (e.g.)
> openlilylib/scholarly/main.ily, and this will in turn include
> openlilylib/oll-core/main.ily.
>
> So as a user you won't write
> \include "openlilylib"
> \useLibrary Scholarly
> anymore but
> \include "scholarly/main.ily"
> (or something similar)
>
> Now the question comes:
> openLilyLib registers a list of loaded libraries and its options. What I'm
> thinking about is if a function inside openlilylib/oll-core/main.ily can
> determine from which file it has been included and then add this to the
> list of loaded libraries.
>
> If that's not possible that wouldn't be much of an issue. ScholarLY would
> then simply have to include oll-core and *then* issue a command to register
> itself with oll. But I just wanted to explore the possibility.
>
> Urs
>
>
Yes, ScholarLY registering itself via some function in oll-core is probably
a much better solution anyway. If you think in terms of "Scholarly USES
oll-core" it doesn't make sense for oll-core to do anything other than
provide functionality to the other.

You could still wrap this behaviour up in a short top-level file that looks
something like:

```
\include "oll-core.ily"
\include "scholarly-impl.ily"
oll-register ( scholarly )

```

Chris
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Re: Help with unexpexted double barline trouble and \markup

[Chris Yate]

On 15 January 2016 at 07:07, Carl-Henrik Buschmann 
wrote:

> I'm working on a lead sheet but being a novice i'm hitting my head against
> the wall at some noob problems.
>
> Bar 1)
> Stemlets. Do it have to be this hard creating them? Is there a way to make
> it global? Also, i want the stemlet to reach down towards the rest. How?
> How do i make custom rehersal marks?
> When using \markup { ... } the whole score looses it layout and to add
> insult it does not display any text. I must have done something wrong.
>
>
1) Stemlets: why do you want to write them like this? Normal quavers are
fine

2) use \mark "A", not \markup "A"


> Bar 8)
> Why does the double barline not exend equaly through both staffs?
>


You've made the lower staff smaller with   \magnifyStaff #5/7, so its
barline will be a different size too.  I've had this with instrumentname
recently (answered on here, it's by design)



> Bar 37)
> Why does it not show a double bar line?
>

I think that's because there's a double bar in the Volta section following,
but I'll concede that's unexpected.


> And finally: I feel my score is a mess. How can i clean up/simplify my
> input?
>

I'd split it into separate files, and pull them together in a master .ly
file using the
/include "music.ily"
command.

I also think barlines on separate lines helps.

So rather than

a4 b c d |
e f g a |

instead

a4 b c d
|
e f g a
|


You can also label bar numbers with comments:

a4 b c d
| %1
e f g a
| %2

but this gets tiresome after a while.


> Also, inputing this takes alot of time considering how long use on
> inputing this in Sibelius (added as pfd). What can i do to speed this up?
> Help and encouragement is much obliged.
>

Well, you need to get fast at your keyboard skills and touch-typing! I
think Lilypond is much faster than manual entry in Sibelius -- using a MIDI
keyboard may be faster but it's also more prone to errors if you're trying
quantized direct music entry.

Chris
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Re: Help with unexpexted double barline trouble and \markup

[Chris Yate]

On 15 January 2016 at 14:37, Kieren MacMillan  wrote:

> Hi Carl-Henrik,
>
> > Bar 1)
> > Stemlets. Do it have to be this hard creating them? Is there a way to
> make it global? Also, i want the stemlet to reach down towards the rest.
> How?
>
> This may be related to the issue Urs is working on at the moment. In any
> case, I’m sure there are automatic ways to make your preference global.
>

According to the documentation, no...

http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/beams#automatic-beams

"Beams *must* be entered manually if beams are to be extended over rests."

But I have seen a snippet through which you can avoid the slur AND beam in
the following:
a8 ([ b c d ]) a ([ b c d])

I can't remember where I saw it!

Chris
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Programmatically building music-function names

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

I'm trying to typeset a number of short pieces into multiple scores in one
file. I can do this manually, as:

```
musicOne = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }
musicTwo = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }

\score {
 \musicOne
}

\score {
  \musicTwo
}
```

However, there's a lot more common stuff in my real \score block, which
means this approach gets very tedious. What I'm trying to do instead looks
like:


```
printTheScore =
#(define-music-function
 (parser location number )
 (string? )
#{
\score {
 \music#number
}
#})

\printTheScore "One"
\printTheScore "Two"
```

This doesn't work; my substitution syntax is clearly wrong here, but I'd be
interested to see if there's a way to do it.  Or does the way the code is
parsed mean music functions can't be referenced in this way?

I've attached a ly file including the code I've pasted here.

thanks,

Chris
\version "2.19.35"

musicOne = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }
musicTwo = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }

% Manually create all scores

\score {  
 \musicOne
}

\score { 
  \musicTwo
}

% Programmatically create scores?

printTheScore = 
#(define-music-function
 (parser location number )
 (string? )
#{ 
\score {
 \music#number
}
#})

\printTheScore "One"
\printTheScore "Two"
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Re: Help with unexpexted double barline trouble and \markup

[Chris Yate]

On 15 January 2016 at 15:58, Carl-Henrik Buschmann <chbuschm...@mac.com>
wrote:

>
> 15. jan. 2016 kl. 15.32 skrev Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> On 15 January 2016 at 07:07, Carl-Henrik Buschmann <chbuschm...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm working on a lead sheet but being a novice i'm hitting my head
>> against the wall at some noob problems.
>>
>> Bar 1)
>> Stemlets. Do it have to be this hard creating them? Is there a way to
>> make it global? Also, i want the stemlet to reach down towards the rest.
>> How?
>> How do i make custom rehersal marks?
>> When using \markup { ... } the whole score looses it layout and to add
>> insult it does not display any text. I must have done something wrong.
>>
>>
> 1) Stemlets: why do you want to write them like this? Normal quavers are
> fine
>
> 1) My experience is that reading rhythms with the stemlets over the rests
> helps alot. It is a tad "modern" but generally approved. Is there a way to
> make it global?
>

I'd agree that's the case for rhythms like ` a16 [ r b c ] d [ r c b ] `
but I don't *think* I've ever seen quavers written as you have done ` r8 [
a ] r [ b ] ` in commercial printed music. Just looks strange to me, but I
appreciate you want it a certain way and that's fine.

As for making it global, I don't know of a way, but I am sure it's possible
to write a function to make it happen. Not my expertise unfortunately.

Chris
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Re: Programmatically building music-function names

[Chris Yate]

On 15 Jan 2016 17:26, "David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to typeset a number of short pieces into multiple scores in
one
> > file. I can do this manually, as:
>
>
> > This doesn't work; my substitution syntax is clearly wrong here, but
> > I'd be interested to see if there's a way to do it.  Or does the way
> > the code is parsed mean music functions can't be referenced in this
> > way?
>
> A score is not music.
>
> And you cannot splice identifiers like
>
> \music#number
>
> That's just nonsensical.  Try something like
> --
> David Kastrup

Thanks David (and Caio too for your suggestion), that's the syntax I was
looking for. Basically, forming a symbol by concatenation and to have it
evaluated in the input file.

However, for its simplicity I think I probably prefer Urs's method, even if
it makes the input file a bit longer.

Chris
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Fwd: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure

[Chris Yate]

In case anyone here is interested (perhaps Ralph), a Minimal not-Working
Example I've sent to the bugs list.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>
Date: 9 January 2016 at 09:55
Subject: Re: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure
To: tisimst <tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com>
Cc: bug-lilyp...@gnu.org


So, it turns out this was easy to minimise the code. File is attached. It's
still ~70 bars but only one voice, which is the dynamics staff of a piano
score (without anything else), so it's only silent music.

"AutoPageBreaksOff" in the score block causes the exception failure.

I note some "insane spring distance" warnings.These don't happen in the
real thing.

Chris


On 9 January 2016 at 09:05, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes I understand a minimal example is ideal, but I don't think this would
> occur with minimal code. I'll run a couple of tests to check.
>
> Chris
> On 9 Jan 2016 4:33 am, "Abraham Lee" <tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't mean to have you send _me_ your code (typing error). Is
>> your code that big that you can't reduce it down towards a "tiny example"?
>> If you can, that'd be best. Otherwise, if a single file, just attach the
>> file to an email. If a group of files, then a .zip folder would be fine.
>> I've seen others share code via gist or github, etc. Take your pick I guess.
>>
>> Best,
>> Abraham
>>
>> On Friday, January 8, 2016, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, and thanks.
>>>
>>> How would be best to give you the code? I could attach as a .zip to a
>>> list email, or upload to a gist.
>>>
>>> (Please note, I'm using openlilylib, minimally, which I doubt has
>>> anything to do with the bug but is a dependency)
>>> Forwarding to the bug list. Yes, if I'd make your code available to the
>>> developers.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Abraham
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>> From: *Chris Yate* <chrisy...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Friday, January 8, 2016
>>> Subject: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure
>>> To: Lilypond-User Mailing List <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm trying to paginate my score nicely and the automatic paging isn't
>>> good enough. So I'm doing all the page breaks manually -- and a certain
>>> situation is causing an assertion failure on compilation:
>>>
>>> << Snippet of output:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> MIDI output to `BeiMannernScore.mid'...
>>>
>>> Finding the ideal number of pages...
>>>
>>> Fitting music on 9 or 10 pages...
>>>
>>> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
>>> way.
>>>
>>> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>>>
>>> Assertion failed!
>>>
>>> Program: C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond.exe
>>>
>>> File:
>>> /home/gub/NewGub/gub/target/mingw/src/lilypond-git.sv.gnu.org--lilypond.git-release-unstable/lily/page-breaking.cc,
>>> Line 1180
>>>
>>> Expression: ret <= cached_line_details_.size ()
>>>
>>> Exited with return code 3.
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem occurs with the page break on a specific bar. For now I've
>>> done the obvious thing and gone with a working state -- it's not critical.
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy to push the code up to a Gist for anyone that wishes to debug the
>>> issue. Let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>> (This is apparently not happening if I build on Linux, only in Windows).
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
\version "2.19.35"

 dynamics = 
 {
 \time 6/8 \partial 8*4 s8\p s s s | 
 s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. |
 s s s\p s s s | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4. \crescTextCresc s8\cresc s\! s | s4. s4\f s8 
 | s8 s s\p s s s \f | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4. s4 \tuplet 3/2 { s16 s s } | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4.\sf s4. | s2. | s2. | s4.\sf s4. | s4.\sf s4. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4.\sf\> s4 s8\! | s4 s8 s16\< s s8 s | s4.\sf\> s4 s8\! 
 | s16\> s\! s8 s8 s4 s8 | s4. s4\pp s8 | \crescHairpin s4\< s8 s4 s8 
 | s4\> s8 s4 s8 | s4\! \crescTextCresc s8\< s s\! s | s8 s s\p s s s 
 | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s4 s8 s \crescTextCresc s8\cresc s8\! 
 | s8 s8 s8 s16\p s s8 s | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4 s8 \crescTextCresc s16\cresc s s8 s | s4 s8 s8\f s s8 
 | s4 s8\p s4 s8 | s4. s4.\sf | s2. | 4 8 s4.\sf | s4 s8 s4.\sf 
 | s4 s8 \afterGrace s4.\sf { s16 s } | s16\f s s8 s2 | s2. 
 | s4 \dimTextDecresc s8\> s4 s8 | s2. | s2.\p | s4 s8 s4 s8\pp 
 | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s4 s8 s4 s8\ff | s2. 
 } 
 
 \score
 {
 << 
\autoPageBreaksOff
\dynamics >> 
 \header {} 
 \layout { }
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Instrument name in magnified staff

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

As per the documentation*, I'm using \magnifyStaff to reduce the size of
the solo line in a piano accompaniment.

\version "2.19.35"

\score {
  <<
\new Staff \with { instrumentName = "Example 1"
   \magnifyStaff #4/7
}
<< \relative c{ a b c d } >>
\new Staff \with { instrumentName = "Example 2"
}
<< \relative c{ a b c d } >>
  >>
  \layout{}
}

Unfortunately the instrument name is _also_ magnified (negatively). (See
attached)

Is this really the intended result? How would I make the instrument name
text full size?

Thanks,

Chris

*
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/setting-the-staff-size
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Re: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure

[Chris Yate]

No, it's not self-built, it's the latest dev image from the website!

Windows 10, 64bit. Any other info you need?
Chris
On 9 Jan 2016 10:17 pm, "Colin Campbell" <c...@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On 16-01-08 07:09 PM, Chris Yate wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm trying to paginate my score nicely and the automatic paging isn't good
> enough. So I'm doing all the page breaks manually -- and a certain
> situation is causing an assertion failure on compilation:
>
> << Snippet of output:
>
> 
>
> MIDI output to `BeiMannernScore.mid'...
>
> Finding the ideal number of pages...
>
> Fitting music on 9 or 10 pages...
>
> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
> way.
>
> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>
> Assertion failed!
>
> Program: C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond.exe
>
> File:
> /home/gub/NewGub/gub/target/mingw/src/lilypond-git.sv.gnu.org--lilypond.git-release-unstable/lily/page-breaking.cc,
> Line 1180
>
> Expression: ret <= cached_line_details_.size ()
>
> Exited with return code 3.
>
> >>
>
>
> The problem occurs with the page break on a specific bar. For now I've
> done the obvious thing and gone with a working state -- it's not critical.
>
>
> Happy to push the code up to a Gist for anyone that wishes to debug the
> issue. Let me know.
>
>
> (This is apparently not happening if I build on Linux, only in Windows).
>
>
> I'll confirm that your example from down-thread does not give an exception
> error under 64-bit linux. I see that you are using a self-built binary;
> have you tried downloading and installing a binary from the website, to
> isolate possible issues with your local environment?
>
> Cheers,
> Colin
>
>
> --
> Celestial navigation is based on the premise that the Earth is the center
> of the universe. The premise is wrong, but the navigation works. An
> incorrect model can be a useful tool.
>  - Kelvin Throop III
>
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Re: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure

[Chris Yate]

On 9 January 2016 at 14:28, Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2016-01-09 14:18 GMT+01:00 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>:
> > In case anyone here is interested (perhaps Ralph), a Minimal not-Working
> > Example I've sent to the bugs list.
> [...]
> > "AutoPageBreaksOff" in the score block causes the exception failure.
>
> \autoPageBreaksOff
>
> is not a LilyPond-command.
> Did you define it locally?
> If so, how?
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm
>

I read the * manual :)

http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/page-breaking
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