RE: [WSG] Pixel to EM conversion
Hi Scott, Thanks it is cool and very useful. I needed a calculator/ tool to convert Dialogue Unit dlu to pixels. Has any one come across such a tool, please let me know. Thanks in advance. Thanks Regards, Mithil Yadav Usability Professional Mastek Ltd. Phone: +91 22 67914545/ 4646 Ext: 2108 Mobile: +91 9820766147 -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Swabey Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:49 PM To: WSG Mailing List Subject: [WSG] Pixel to EM conversion Hi all I came across a very neat, and immensely useful tool online today that converts fixed pixel sizes to their relative em size equivalents. The Em Calculator[1] bases conversions on a specified base pixel conversion ratio, and provides you with immediate calculations for nested child and sibling nodes of the DOM tree. Very cool! [1] http://riddle.pl/emcalc/ -- Scott Swabey Design Development Director - Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com | www.thought-after.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** MASTEK Making a valuable difference Mastek in NASSCOM's 'India Top 20' Software Service Exporters List. In the US, we're called MAJESCOMASTEK ~~ Opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual and not that of Mastek Limited, unless specifically indicated to that effect. Mastek Limited does not accept any responsibility or liability for it. This e-mail and attachments (if any) transmitted with it are confidential and/or privileged and solely for the use of the intended person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. This e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. It is the responsibility of the recipient to run the virus check on e-mails and attachments before opening them. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly delete this e-mail from all computers. ~~ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Not a Good Impression
It has too much javascript in the page BUT Actually it validates. http://validator.w3.org/check? uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slsa.sa.gov.au%2Fsite%2Fpage.cfm It let me in with no hinderance with Mozilla and Firefox, better than some libraries. Tim On 08/02/2007, at 7:50 PM, Matthew Smith wrote: Hi All Wondering if there are any SA Government folks here (or anyone else) who would like to comment on this beautiful welcome to the State Library site; for a moment, I thought I'd hit a test site or something. The offending site is at: http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/ I have never seen anything quite like this before - and hope I don't again: Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combination The Browser and/or Operating System you are using has not been tested in this site. You may still enter the site by clicking on one of the 'Enter' links below. Alternatively you can download a known browser from the browser vendor links below. If you wish to continue into the site regardless, please select a version from the choices below * Enter the text only version - should work in most browsers that support javascript (this is not a html-only version). * Enter the full graphic version (internet explorer compatibility mode). * Enter the full graphic version (mozilla compatibility mode). Compliant browsers can be found at the following links: Microsoft Internet Explorer Netscape Navigator Please contact us if you require further information or technical assistance: Email: ...visited with Firefox 2.0, Linux. -- Matthew Smith IT Consultancy Web Application Development Business: http://www.kbc.net.au/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph
Dmitry Baranovskiy Add to this “Will search engines correctly understand such a symbols?” The answer is “No”. Compare: 3×4 http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=enq=3%D74btnG=Searchmeta= 3x4 http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=enq=3x4btnG=Searchmeta= 3 4 http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=enq=3+4btnG=Searchmeta= As you can see first and last results are equal, which means that Google ignore times; symbol. Try this two links as well: It's the usual chicken/egg problem: once most people start using the correct way, Google will have to adapt its algorithms. But many authors will be wary of using it until Google does it first. Rinse, repeat. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor External Relations Division University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] HTTP compression in Apache
Hi All, I am trying to implement HTTP compression in Apache. Have included following code in my httpd.conf file Location C:\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs SetOutputFilter Deflate /Location Directory C:/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs Options Indexes FollowSymLinks Includes AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all AddOutputFilterByType DEFLATE text/html text/plain text/xml /Directory But I am getting error in my apache error.log file saying [Thu Feb 08 14:38:04 2007] [error] an unknown filter was not added: deflate. If anybody has done this please let me know if I need to do any thing more or if m I doing any thing wrong here. Regards, Nisha. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Not a Good Impression
Opened OK using Opera 9.1 for me. The top nav is a bit misaligned though. On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:22:41 +1000, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Opened with Opera 9.10...got the same message as below: Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combinationetc. Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+ Senior Technical Communicator Web Standards Accessibility Designer website: http://frank.helpware.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Member: Society for Technical Communications (S.T.C.) Guild of Accessible Web Designers (G.A.W.D.S.) Web Standards Group (W.S.G.) super group trading ltd. Sandhurst, Gauteng, South Africa website: http://www.supergroup.co.za Work: +27 011 523 4931 Home: +27 011 455 5287 Fax:+27 011 455 3112 Mobile: +27 074 109 1908 -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Smith Sent: Thursday, 08 February, 2007 10:51 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Not a Good Impression Hi All Wondering if there are any SA Government folks here (or anyone else) who would like to comment on this beautiful welcome to the State Library site; for a moment, I thought I'd hit a test site or something. The offending site is at: http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/ I have never seen anything quite like this before - and hope I don't again: Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combination The Browser and/or Operating System you are using has not been tested in this site. You may still enter the site by clicking on one of the 'Enter' links below. Alternatively you can download a known browser from the browser vendor links below. If you wish to continue into the site regardless, please select a version from the choices below * Enter the text only version - should work in most browsers that support javascript (this is not a html-only version). * Enter the full graphic version (internet explorer compatibility mode). * Enter the full graphic version (mozilla compatibility mode). Compliant browsers can be found at the following links: Microsoft Internet Explorer Netscape Navigator Please contact us if you require further information or technical assistance: Email: ...visited with Firefox 2.0, Linux. -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Not a Good Impression
My apologies, let me describe my experience with it further: In Opera 9.1, loading and executing the url produces an addition to the address: /error_msg/unknown_browser.cfm The Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combination page opens. Clicking the Text Only Version hyperlink produces an Object Instantiation Exception dialog box. Clicking the Enter the full graphic version (Internet Explorer comp. mode) and (mozilla comp. mode) hyperlinks produces the web page, but also with the misaligned top nav as you also see it. Frank -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds Sent: Thursday, 08 February, 2007 11:57 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Not a Good Impression Opened OK using Opera 9.1 for me. The top nav is a bit misaligned though. On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:22:41 +1000, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Opened with Opera 9.10...got the same message as below: Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combinationetc. Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+ Senior Technical Communicator Web Standards Accessibility Designer website: http://frank.helpware.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Member: Society for Technical Communications (S.T.C.) Guild of Accessible Web Designers (G.A.W.D.S.) Web Standards Group (W.S.G.) super group trading ltd. Sandhurst, Gauteng, South Africa website: http://www.supergroup.co.za Work: +27 011 523 4931 Home: +27 011 455 5287 Fax:+27 011 455 3112 Mobile: +27 074 109 1908 -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Smith Sent: Thursday, 08 February, 2007 10:51 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Not a Good Impression Hi All Wondering if there are any SA Government folks here (or anyone else) who would like to comment on this beautiful welcome to the State Library site; for a moment, I thought I'd hit a test site or something. The offending site is at: http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/ I have never seen anything quite like this before - and hope I don't again: Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combination The Browser and/or Operating System you are using has not been tested in this site. You may still enter the site by clicking on one of the 'Enter' links below. Alternatively you can download a known browser from the browser vendor links below. If you wish to continue into the site regardless, please select a version from the choices below * Enter the text only version - should work in most browsers that support javascript (this is not a html-only version). * Enter the full graphic version (internet explorer compatibility mode). * Enter the full graphic version (mozilla compatibility mode). Compliant browsers can be found at the following links: Microsoft Internet Explorer Netscape Navigator Please contact us if you require further information or technical assistance: Email: ...visited with Firefox 2.0, Linux. -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
On 2/8/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: Div doesn't have any semantics, it's a structural element only. And since when does structure not have meaning? I don't have to read any dictionary or the spec to agree with you Geoff. Structure in and of itself IS semantic to an extent. Structure allows us to understand such concepts as beginning and ending, internal organization, and compartmentalization. I'm not up to speed on a lot of the proposed specifications, but I can still see a use for both section and div that might be /slightly/ more semantic than either alone... section id=sidebar div id=nav nl liHome/li liAbout/li liContact/li /nl /div div id=login form.../form /div div id=sponsors ul liChuck Norris/li liJack Bauer/li /ul div /section This would tend to convey a page section (the side bar) that's been divided into 3 smaller portions, hence the division tags. Obviously, you could do all of this with just divisions, just sections, or neither. Together, however, they might have a little more meaning than alone. Is it a huge advance in semantics? I don't think so, but I would eventually take advantage of it were it implemented and supported. -- Best regards, Mike Wilson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] HTTP compression in Apache
No idea what this has to do with Web Standards, but anyway ... -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nisha Kumari Sent: Thursday, 8 February 2007 6:16 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] HTTP compression in Apache Hi All, I am trying to implement HTTP compression in Apache. Have included following code in my httpd.conf file Location C:\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs SetOutputFilter Deflate /Location Directory C:/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs Options Indexes FollowSymLinks Includes AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all AddOutputFilterByType DEFLATE text/html text/plain text/xml /Directory But I am getting error in my apache error.log file saying [Thu Feb 08 14:38:04 2007] [error] an unknown filter was not added: deflate. If anybody has done this please let me know if I need to do any thing more or if m I doing any thing wrong here. I'm pretty sure the Deflate you have needs capitalising also. SetOutputFilter DEFLATE Also, AddOutputFilterByType is deprecated in Apache 2.1. Try just AddOutputFilter instead if it will serve your needs. Apache Docs are your friend : http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#addoutputfilterbytype Best not ask any more Apache questions here I would have thought. Gav... Regards, Nisha. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.30/674 - Release Date: 2/7/2007 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Mike Wilson wrote: section id=sidebar div id=nav nl liHome/li liAbout/li liContact/li /nl /div div id=login form.../form /div div id=sponsors ul liChuck Norris/li liJack Bauer/li /ul div /section This would tend to convey a page section (the side bar) that's been divided into 3 smaller portions, hence the division tags. Obviously, you could do all of this with just divisions, just sections, or neither. Together, however, they might have a little more meaning than alone. Is it a huge advance in semantics? I don't think so, but I would eventually take advantage of it were it implemented and supported. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get browsers to interpret ^ (or something) as meaning 'div id=' (and something else for 'class='). Then we could have, xml style code, such as: ^pageborder ^content blah blah /content /pageborder MUCH more readable, and encouraging for semantic coding/markup? Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Designer wrote: ^pageborder ^content blah blah /content /pageborder Looks like the current proposal for HTML 5 to me (except it doesn't have ^). Regards, Barney *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Isn't XHTML2 the one being endorsed by W3C and not HTML5? HTML5 is being formulated at WHATWG, AFAIK, On 2/8/07, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a bigger fan of XHTML 2, from what I have seen - it seems to me more like a sober re-design of HTML with the benefit of hindsight. HTML 5, on the other hand, seems to be more about making a huge list of specific elements to tag on to HTML. Of course, the problem is that the full potential of XHTML 2 wouldn't be backward compatible - while HTML 5 would simply have loads of convoluted objects that might not render. To bring back the dead horse, it seems to me that HTML 5 would completely re-legitimise HR/, probably along with PICTURE OF A BLACK DOG and THAT BIT AT THE TOP OF MY PAGE. I'm exaggerating, but I'm very cynical of the notion of just adding specifics. Of course, I suppose it was people with this kind of mindset who over saw the genocide of tables, and other objects with highly specific properties. How much is there to gain from things like CALENDAR? Should we be complicating things, or simplifying them? At the end of the day it's pretty moot because HTML 5 is W3 and Microsoft endorsed, and XHTML isn't. Regards, Barney *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Aja Lorenzo T Lapus : Freelance Web Developer Home / Web log : http://www.ajalapus.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Designer wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if we could get browsers to interpret ^ (or something) as meaning 'div id=' (and something else for 'class='). Then we could have, xml style code, such as: ^pageborder ^content blah blah /content /pageborder MUCH more readable, and encouraging for semantic coding/markup? Well, isn't this just the same as using XML and XSLT? Why use html5 or xhtml2 when you can just write your own xml files, using whatever semantic structure you want, and just tranform it into html 4.01 in the browser? For example: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8? ?xml-stylesheet type=text/xsl href=document.xsl? document metadata.../metadata header title.../title logo/ menu.../menu /header content section h.../h p.../p ... /section section h.../h p.../p p.../p ... /section /content footer navigation/navigation copyright/copyright ... /footer /document cheers, Geoff == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HTTP compression in Apache
Hi, yes not much to do with standards but hey you need to use the resources available to you. On Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 22:23:17 +0900, Gav wrote: No idea what this has to do with Web Standards, but anyway ... -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nisha Kumari Sent: Thursday, 8 February 2007 6:16 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] HTTP compression in Apache Hi All, I am trying to implement HTTP compression in Apache. Have included following code in my httpd.conf file Okay, there may be a problem here. As per the apache docs Location sections are not file system paths.. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#location Specifically this part in the docs. When to use Location Use Location to apply directives to content that lives outside the filesystem. For content that lives in the filesystem, use Directory and Files. An exception is Location /, which is an easy way to apply a configuration to the entire server. Location C:\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs SetOutputFilter Deflate /Location So the above location section is useless. A location directive referes to part of the url in broswer, and unless I have had a few more beers than I thought. That is not a url there :) Directory C:/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs Options Indexes FollowSymLinks Includes AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all AddOutputFilterByType DEFLATE text/html text/plain text/xml /Directory But I am getting error in my apache error.log file saying [Thu Feb 08 14:38:04 2007] [error] an unknown filter was not added: deflate. Could you provide more information on your apache configuration please? E.g modules loaded.. Is mod_mime loaded? Is mod_deflate loaded? What version of apache are you using? All of these help the diagnosis. If you could tar/gzip/zip and email me the configs im happy to have a look and see if I can spot anything wrong. If anybody has done this please let me know if I need to do any thing more or if m I doing any thing wrong here. I'm pretty sure the Deflate you have needs capitalising also. SetOutputFilter DEFLATE Also, AddOutputFilterByType is deprecated in Apache 2.1. Try just AddOutputFilter instead if it will serve your needs. Apache Docs are your friend : http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#addoutputfilterbytype Docs sure are your friend. Best not ask any more Apache questions here I would have thought. If this is regarded as too much of a an off topic topic, reply off list if you wish. This is my first day back on this list after a few years away, so im not sure how off topic, topics can get. -- Paul De Audney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Systems Administrator If you need advice or a contractor shoot me an email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Setting focus and JAWS
Hello, I am currently working on testing a Web app and I am running into a problem testing with JAWS 7.0. I was wondering if anyone out there had any similar experiences and/or can offer any suggestions on how I can resolve the issue. Does what I describe seem like a bug with JAWS or an issue with the way we are coding? We are using JavaScript to set focus to an anchor on the same page. It seems that focus gets set to the target anchor some of the time. Other times focus gets set either at the top of the page or at the location near source link. It seems to be random when focus get set correctly. From reading different sources setting focus using JavaScript should work with JAWS. I have also tried JAWS 7.10 and have encountered a similar problem, - not the same thing, but it still does not work. I was wondering if anyone knows of any bugs with JAWS and setting focus to a named anchor using JavaScript? P.S., focus get set correctly without JAWS, i.e., using the mouse or the keyboard (tabbing and pressing enter on the source link). Thanks, Pete Peter McNally Massachusetts New MMIS Usability Manager EDS - User Experience Boston, MA USA ( Phone:+1-617-428-8893 ) + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Coding for Chinese
Hi Listers, Can anyone help me prepare for coding an HTML email in Chinese? I am on the Mac and use DW8 (code view) and have not done any asian language coding before. Any help would be appreciated... -- Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Not a Good Impression
Opened for me with Safari. On 8 Feb 2007, at 09:41:16, Tim wrote: I tried it in Opera on a Mac and got this javascript error message. Error message Statement in line 4:Expression did not evaluate to a function object: document.bodyinsertAdjacentHTML A Javascript error? Yup, insertAdjacentHTML is an IE-Win-only method. Obviously it saw the MSIE that Opera includes in its default User Agent string and decided to charge ahead with the IE version. Bloody amateurs. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph
On 8 Feb 2007, at 14:49:26, Andrew Maben wrote: On Feb 7, 2007, at 8:44 PM, Andrew Cunningham wrote: Would it make any sense to read out I black hearts suit unicode? The symbol has been used to indicate the word love. FWIW, I happened to be reading the paper yesterday where the film whose title is represented in its ads and title on screen by I U +2665 Huckabees was referred to as I Heart Huckabees rather than I Love Huckabees. Its title is indeed I Heart Huckabees. From the IMDB trivia page for the film: 'Many theater managers mistakenly wrote the film's title on marquees and in showtime listings as I Love Huckabees. This is most likely because on all promotional material and in the film itself the title is written with a heart symbol instead of the word heart.' Perhaps the theater managers should have used a screenreader? ;-) Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 03:49:00PM +, Designer wrote: Forgive my complete lack of knowledge here, but can you (or someone) point me to details on where I can just transform it into html 4.01 (or xhtml) in the browser? It basically boils down to: 1. Learn XSLT 2. Write a transformation for your markup into HTML 3. Serve your XML as application/xml and put a stylesheet directive in it ... but don't do that. Clients that support HTML (which include GoogleBot) are far more common then clients that support XSLT (which doesn't, last time I checked). It's a serious question - I'd love to code/markup in xml. That could be reasonable. You could apply your XSLT via a publishing tool / on your webserver and serve up regular HTML to the client. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Hi, On 2/8/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have to read any dictionary or the spec to agree with you Geoff. Structure in and of itself IS semantic to an extent. I think you are taking that too far - imagine trying to create the look of a newspaper on the web, with blocks of text that break off at specific points to continue in the next column, where the blocks themselves are more or less randomly distributed. Does the end of one DIV in that case tell you anything whatsoever about the content? Often it isn't even the end of a word! If I were trying to create the /look/ of anything, I'd be more concerned the CSS than the markup, but to answer your main question, I think the markup can tell us a lot about the document itself. The content may be represented visually as columns, but in the markup I can easily understand the relationship: div id=foo pfoo/p pfoo/p pfoo/p /div Regardless of how you present this example visually--as a single column or as three columns, I can easily see these paragraphs are somehow directly related. Through the use of the section tag combined with ID's you could expand that meaning. Simply, it conveys something about the document. The physical structure of a page will often be entirely different to the logical structure This is true, of course, but at the end of the day both versions still have some meaning, depending on context. -- Best regards, Mike Wilson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
On 8 Feb 2007, at 15:49:00, Designer wrote: Forgive my complete lack of knowledge here, but can you (or someone) point me to details on where I can just transform it into html 4.01 (or xhtml) in the browser? It's a serious question - I'd love to code/markup in xml. http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt Enjoy :-) On the other hand, browser support is fairly restricted and can be buggy, especially if you plan to use any DOM Scripting/Ajax type stuff. For real-world usage, you're better off doing the transformation on the server. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] option to open newwindow inside the link !!
Hello everyone, I know open new windows should be avoid, but sometimes we need that to to prevent confusion. Iam thinking in some way of warn and give the option in each link to the user chose or not to open in new window. Something like a href=something.com title=go to somethingsomethingabbr id=popup tile=Open new windowoplus;/abbr/a and by javascript, if the user click on abbr id=popup the, we will find the element that contain the abbr and set attribute target=_blank to element a OR in other way get the value of href of contain element and give that value to a function opennewwindow. The question is to JAWs or others screenreaders would be confuse if have on trigger inside a a element or not, and if should open by Target=_blank or OpenNewWindow or a simple link with two ways of get out are a bis confusion -- Make it simple for the people -- http://www.artideias.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Wilson snip The physical structure of a page will often be entirely different to the logical structure This is true, of course, but at the end of the day both versions still have some meaning, depending on context. You must be drunk too, if you are agreeing with me! (Apparently.) The example that I was trying to describe went more like: div id=block1 div id=col1 pPara 1/p pStart of Para 2 ... /div div id=col2 end of para 2/p pfoo/p /div /div Appearing as: Para 1 end of para2 Start of Para 2... foo Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] option to open newwindow inside the link !!
If you feel able to give them a choice, then leave them with their normal choice, as it clearly _isn't _ essential to your application. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gaspar Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 4:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] option to open newwindow inside the link !! Hello everyone, I know open new windows should be avoid, but sometimes we need that to to prevent confusion. Iam thinking in some way of warn and give the option in each link to the user chose or not to open in new window. snip *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] CSS and non-standard properties
Hi all, I just noticed via Roger Johansson's blog[1] that the Safari team are building in non-standard CSS properties[2]. I know this is nothing new, as Firefox / Mozilla has it's non-standard CSS commands too (mainly for XUL development?)[3] etc, but wonder what the motivation is. Isn't this the 2007 equivalent of the blink and marquee tags we all know and hate? What advantage does it give to browser vendors to implement non-standard CSS properties? Paul 'Genuinely curious' Bennett [1] http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200702/new_css_properties_in_safari/ [2] http://webkit.org/blog/?p=85 [3] http://www.eightlines.com/neil/mozskin/csscommands.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS and non-standard properties
On 8 Feb 2007, at 19:15:07, Paul Bennett wrote: Hi all, I just noticed via Roger Johansson's blog[1] that the Safari team are building in non-standard CSS properties[2]. I know this is nothing new, as Firefox / Mozilla has it's non-standard CSS commands too (mainly for XUL development?)[3] etc, but wonder what the motivation is. Isn't this the 2007 equivalent of the blink and marquee tags we all know and hate? What advantage does it give to browser vendors to implement non- standard CSS properties? These are usually properties specified in the as-yet-incomplete CSS 3. By implementing them now they allow users to test them and, if CSS 3 is ever completed, can immediately enable them using the standard name. Also, note that a W3C Draft can only become a Recommendation (synonymous with standard) if there are working, interoperable real- world implementations from more than one vendor; so once the CSS Working Group finally end their deliberations over CSS 3, having these implementations out there can greatly speed up the process of moving from Candidate Recommendation to Recommendation status. So it's actually pretty much the opposite of blink and suchlike: it's a way of helping the community prepare for future standards, and of ensuring that implementations are available at the time the standard is ratified. Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph
On 2/8/07, Dmitry Baranovskiy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually in both cases you shouldn't use 'x', but #215; or times; Good point. But will a screen reader find 'times' and say 'times', or for that matter Andrew's unicode alternatives? There's a key question. Anyone got a screen reader handy to test it? Sadly I don't... Add to this Will search engines correctly understand such a symbols? The answer is No. Compare: 3×4 http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=enq=3%D74btnG=Searchmeta= 3x4 http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=enq=3x4btnG=Searchmeta= 3 4 http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=enq=3+4btnG=Searchmeta= As you can see first and last results are equal, which means that Google ignore times; symbol. Today I searched for: prove that any string of length l is an instance of 2^l different schemas and I got a direct match at: Prove that any string of length il/i is an instance of i2supl/sup/i different schemas But changing the search string to: prove that any string of length l is an instance of 2l different schemas Returns the same match. It seems, therefore, that Google just ignores unusual characters and typographic tags. Both a shame... IMO, this is a shortcoming on the part of Googlebot. Then again, the search results are *not* totally identical... the first returns the sup match as result #1, the second as result #2. In the second, result #1 is a PDF. Seems like something that ought to be deferred to the Google team for an explanation. Regardless, understanding a user's meaning in a single text input is always hard. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Coding for chinese audience
Due to email issues, i repost: Hi list, Please reply off-list as this is OT - but I am desperate (sorry list-dads/moms) Can anyone help me prepare for coding an HTML email for a Chinese audience? I have never done anything with Asian characters before. I am on a Mac using DW8 (code view). Any help would be appreciated. TIA -- Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph
I'd still like to know if using character entity references and/or unicode for symbols and special characters will actually convey web content more clearly to people who use screen readers. Sometimes, sometimes not. I have JAWS 6.1 and 7.0 installed - both know about some Unicode characters and not others. JAWS reads a short name for the character, not usually the full description from the standards, e.g. for U+00D4 (Ocirc;) JAWS says O circumflex (not Latin capital letter o with circumflex). some more examples... for U+00D7 (times;) JAWS says times for U+2665 (hearts;) JAWS says nothing. for U+2116 (the numero sign №) JAWS says nothing for U+2122 (trade;) JAWS says trademark JAWS Unicode support was meant to have improved significantly in version 7.0 and might be better again in 8.0, but lots of people who use screen readers don't have the most recent version. Hope this helps, Moira Clunie Accessible Formats Developer Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Awhina House, 4 Maunsell Road, Newmarket, Auckland Private Bag 99941, Newmarket, Auckland DDI +64 9 355 6938 Fax +64 9 355 6960 [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Coding for chinese audience
Tom, I have coded for Chinese HTML newslestter with UTF-8 using inline style sheet and maybe able to help out, let me know. GB 2312 and Big 5 have lots of unseenable issues that usually to do with users' email clients, especially yahoo, hotmail, msn and many bunch of Chinese webmail such as sina, 126, 136. I have know that UTF-8 messes up hotmail and msn, largely due to the users don't know how to change text encoding in their browsers. What geographic is your targeted audience and are they large percentage users using webmail? tee On Feb 8, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: Due to email issues, i repost: Hi list, Please reply off-list as this is OT - but I am desperate (sorry list-dads/moms) Can anyone help me prepare for coding an HTML email for a Chinese audience? I have never done anything with Asian characters before. I am on a Mac using DW8 (code view). Any help would be appreciated. TIA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Coding for chinese audience
On Feb 8, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: Hi list, Please reply off-list as this is OT - but I am desperate (sorry list-dads/moms) My sincere apology - I really meant to send it to Tom. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Appearing as: Para 1 end of para2 Start of Para 2... foo This is what CSS is for: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200702/new_css_properties_in_safari/ Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Nick Fitzsimons wrote: On the other hand, browser support is fairly restricted and can be buggy, especially if you plan to use any DOM Scripting/Ajax type stuff. Well, yes, but it's a lot better than XHTML 2 support ;) For real-world usage, you're better off doing the transformation on the server. Yes, for now. But wouldn't it be easier for all us if the browsers just improved their handling of xml, instead of worrying about html5 and xhtml2? BTW, W3Schools has a basic introduction: http://w3schools.com/ cheers, Geoff == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 09:54:46AM +1100, Geoff Pack wrote: Yes, for now. But wouldn't it be easier for all us if the browsers just improved their handling of xml, instead of worrying about html5 and xhtml2? No, since HTML expresses known semantics and random-XML doesn't. While you can style it, there are more clients then those which are visual. BTW, W3Schools has a basic introduction: http://w3schools.com/ Given the quality of their guides to subjects I know better, I wouldn't trust their introduction to anything. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
1. Learn XSLT 2. Write a transformation for your markup into HTML 3. Serve your XML as application/xml and put a stylesheet directive in it people are dreaming ... when you have to deal with user-created content and unknown character sets (especially when you are trying to run a site catering to lots of different countries) the strictness of most xml parsers and lack of decent tools for character set detection and conversion causes too many problems. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Not a Good Impression
Using firefox at work I do not get that warning message but just a site with the navigation out of line etc It does not seem like its the only SA gov website that lacks a bit. Recently I did a test on the tourism sites of the states of Australia and SA came up the worst then as well http://germworks.net/blog/2007/01/24/which-state-would-you-visit [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/02/2007 5:50:35 pm Hi All Wondering if there are any SA Government folks here (or anyone else) who would like to comment on this beautiful welcome to the State Library site; for a moment, I thought I'd hit a test site or something. The offending site is at: http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/ I have never seen anything quite like this before - and hope I don't again: Unknown or Untested Browser/Operating System Combination The Browser and/or Operating System you are using has not been tested in this site. You may still enter the site by clicking on one of the 'Enter' links below. Alternatively you can download a known browser from the browser vendor links below. If you wish to continue into the site regardless, please select a version from the choices below * Enter the text only version - should work in most browsers that support javascript (this is not a html-only version). * Enter the full graphic version (internet explorer compatibility mode). * Enter the full graphic version (mozilla compatibility mode). Compliant browsers can be found at the following links: Microsoft Internet Explorer Netscape Navigator Please contact us if you require further information or technical assistance: Email: ...visited with Firefox 2.0, Linux. -- Matthew Smith IT Consultancy Web Application Development Business: http://www.kbc.net.au/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Keyboard accessible DHMTL navigation
Hi, I am have a problem trying to make a DHTML navigation keyboard accessible. http://datasearch.uts.edu.au/site_manager_sites/dab2007/demo_index.html Currently this demo page http://datasearch.uts.edu.au/site_manager_sites/dab2007/demo_index.html sort of works when trying to tab to each of the section tabs and there respective group links to make it work for Tab1 I added a onkeyup event to the tab that will make the group div visible when they let go of the tab key. Does any one know if this is really the right approach as it seems like a bit of a hack? Does anyone have any other suggestions that could be useful. -- Cheers, Yara Ryan institute for interactive media and learning uts t: 61 2 9514 2197 | e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | w: http://www.iml.uts.edu.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Setting focus and JAWS
Setting focus and JAWSRegarding accessible ajax, this is the best post I have found so far http://juicystudio.com/article/making-ajax-work-with-screen-readers.php If you find a solution to the problem please either send a reply to this list or leave a comment on the post. -- Brad - Original Message - From: McNally, Peter R To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:23 AM Subject: [WSG] Setting focus and JAWS Hello, I am currently working on testing a Web app and I am running into a problem testing with JAWS 7.0. I was wondering if anyone out there had any similar experiences and/or can offer any suggestions on how I can resolve the issue. Does what I describe seem like a bug with JAWS or an issue with the way we are coding? We are using JavaScript to set focus to an anchor on the same page. It seems that focus gets set to the target anchor some of the time. Other times focus gets set either at the top of the page or at the location near source link. It seems to be random when focus get set correctly. From reading different sources setting focus using JavaScript should work with JAWS. I have also tried JAWS 7.10 and have encountered a similar problem, - not the same thing, but it still does not work. I was wondering if anyone knows of any bugs with JAWS and setting focus to a named anchor using JavaScript? P.S., focus get set correctly without JAWS, i.e., using the mouse or the keyboard (tabbing and pressing enter on the source link). Thanks, Pete Peter McNally Massachusetts New MMIS Usability Manager EDS - User Experience Boston, MA USA ( Phone:+1-617-428-8893 ) + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Keyboard accessible DHMTL navigation
Hi Yara, You might like to check out a roundup I did of dropdown menus with comments made on their accessibility etc.: http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/dropdown-low-down/ On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:00:13 +1000, Yara Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am have a problem trying to make a DHTML navigation keyboard accessible. http://datasearch.uts.edu.au/site_manager_sites/dab2007/demo_index.html Currently this demo page http://datasearch.uts.edu.au/site_manager_sites/dab2007/demo_index.html sort of works when trying to tab to each of the section tabs and there respective group links to make it work for Tab1 I added a onkeyup event to the tab that will make the group div visible when they let go of the tab key. Does any one know if this is really the right approach as it seems like a bit of a hack? Does anyone have any other suggestions that could be useful. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Keyboard accessible DHMTL navigation
Yara, TABS seems to work OK for me on Netscape Mac version. Meta tags could provide a link to an accessibility statement giving keyboard shortcuts. Some Meta tags duplicated. meta http-equiv=expires content=01 apr 1995 01:10:10 gmt / meta name=robots content=noindex,nofollow / I'm don't think that the javascript is necessary and what effect will it might have on accessibility or bots who will not read it, a screenreader? The javascript at the page bottom could be linked to in the header as an external file! Why is the charset=utf-8 ? I may be wrong but isn't is better to use: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1 / Have they found a way to dismantle that concrete steel sprung monolith at UTS yet? Tim On 09/02/2007, at 12:00 PM, Yara Ryan wrote: Hi, I am have a problem trying to make a DHTML navigation keyboard accessible. http://datasearch.uts.edu.au/site_manager_sites/dab2007/demo_index.html Currently this demo page http://datasearch.uts.edu.au/site_manager_sites/dab2007/demo_index.html sort of works when trying to tab to each of the section tabs and there respective group links to make it work for Tab1 I added a onkeyup event to the tab that will make the group div visible when they let go of the tab key. Does any one know if this is really the right approach as it seems like a bit of a hack? Does anyone have any other suggestions that could be useful. -- Cheers, Yara Ryan institute for interactive media and learning uts t: 61 2 9514 2197 | e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | w: http://www.iml.uts.edu.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] No. abbreviation glyph
That is very helpful, Moira. Kat's original query was: If the glyph for No. (as outlined in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No.) is used, should this be in an abbreviation element to explain it? It is an abbreviation, isn't it?? What do screen-readers make of this particular glyph, if anything? Or should it be kept as No., which is quite common, and wrapped into an abbreviation element with a class of contraction, and a title of number? In theory, all that's needed to represent No. is to use #8470; - the HTML Entity (decimal) for the Unicode Numero symbol. This gives all browsers, screen readers, search engines and various bits of software every chance to interpret the information correctly. Screenreaders can clearly be set to make decisions about what to say (as in Moira's O circumflex example), so can be instructed by their publishers to pronounce this as number. You shouldn't need to wrap an ABBREV around it, which is good because while it /is/ an abbreviation of the word numero, it isn't an abbreviation of the concept to be conveyed, ie the word number. It also means there should be no confusion about x as times, by, unknown, Roman numeral ten or the letter x as each has its own Unicode and HTML Entity. Sighted people can judge the meaning by the context while screenreaders can pronounce the appropriate meaning. However. At least one widely used screenreader says nothing when confronted by the Unicode for numero. It also isn't supported by all font sets, although the most widely used seem to include it. Google doesn't seem to translate HTML entities at all, treating them simply as character strings. It may therefore be practical to wrap the Numero sign in an element that describes it. The ABBREV element seems to be the best candidate. So the answers for Kat are yes, no, probably nothing and possibly. Ricky I'd still like to know if using character entity references and/or unicode for symbols and special characters will actually convey web content more clearly to people who use screen readers. Sometimes, sometimes not. I have JAWS 6.1 and 7.0 installed - both know about some Unicode characters and not others. JAWS reads a short name for the character, not usually the full description from the standards, e.g. for U+00D4 (Ocirc;) JAWS says O circumflex (not Latin capital letter o with circumflex). some more examples... for U+00D7 (times;) JAWS says times for U+2665 (hearts;) JAWS says nothing. for U+2116 (the numero sign №) JAWS says nothing for U+2122 (trade;) JAWS says trademark JAWS Unicode support was meant to have improved significantly in version 7.0 and might be better again in 8.0, but lots of people who use screen readers don't have the most recent version. Hope this helps, Moira Clunie Accessible Formats Developer Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Awhina House, 4 Maunsell Road, Newmarket, Auckland Private Bag 99941, Newmarket, Auckland DDI +64 9 355 6938 Fax +64 9 355 6960 [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Keyboard accessible DHMTL navigation
You might like to check out a roundup I did of dropdown menus with comments made on their accessibility etc.: http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/dropdown-low-down/ That's a great summary, John. FWIW, I use Infinite Menus. The issue of opening new windows when tabbing to submenus may be due to its habit of inserting target=_new as a default for all links. It's an annoying habit, but the ability to edit the menus with a text editor makes it easy to fix. There may also be some confusion with their pure javascript, pure CSS and combo javascript/CSS menu models. The pre CSS option should work with javascript turned off, but its code has even more complicated CSS. I get mostly positive feedback on accessibility issues with IM, but I'll definitely be exploring some of the others you describe. Ricky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
On 2/8/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert at any of this, btw. What do XHTML2 and HTML5 give us that we can't do with XML and CSS? Corporate support, to a degree. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
On 09/02/2007, at 2:01 PM, Geoff Pack wrote: David Dorward wrote: Geoff Pack wrote: Yes, for now. But wouldn't it be easier for all us if the browsers just improved their handling of xml, instead of worrying about html5 and xhtml2? No, since HTML expresses known semantics and random-XML doesn't. Surely the semantic meaning is in the actual tag names, not just the fact that they are standardised. It shouldn't matter as long as it's understandable. Anyway, you can always re-use as many of the HTML tags as you want, and make up your own when you need to. While you can style it, there are more clients then those which are visual. You can add multiple CSS stylesheets to an XML document, just like HTML. Or use can use XSL and transfrom the document into an HTML file with multiple CSS stylesheets. I'm not an expert at any of this, btw. What do XHTML2 and HTML5 give us that we can't do with XML and CSS? cheers, Geoff Semantic meaning is meaning in context, and it's something more complicated than can be contained in just the dictionary definition of a word that you use in a tag name. It doesn't make sense to say that semantics are included in tag names. The grand example of this is layed out in the recent debate about the hr tag. But, even if you made the (spurious) assumption that semantic meaning can be included in a tag name, it would still require a human to produce the semantics from the tag name. This is okay in one off applications, but in broader applications like search engines, You can't make an assumption like a menu tag will contain information about a navigation menu. That name will contain a person's name, etc. Semantics is more than just the individual words. It's the meaning of the word in a specific context. XHTML2 and HTML5 give us more than just set of named tags, they give us a set of agreed upon semantics for those tags, which goes beyond simply their names. This is essential for broad applications of machine parsing. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Setting input heights in Safari
Does anyone know of any workarounds for Safari not accepting height on text inputs? I've already tried setting the font-size, but to get the input to the right height, my text is going to need to be unfeasibly large. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] New nineMSN website does not validate!
[Now that I have your attention] Ninemsn have a new website, currently in beta, demo it here: http://beta.ninemsn.com.au/ I like it, big improvement. You have come a long way nineMSN - congrats to design/development team. The positives: - easy on the eye, with a focus on information rather than advertising - good information architecture - navigation menu as lists - good cross browser capability - nice use of AJAX throughout (though nothing appears to have been done in terms of focussing on the dynamic content after it is rendered leaving screen readers unaware of what has happened - tested with browse mode off in window-eyes) - use of access keys (albeit only 2 instances) Not so positive: - i'd like a link to their rss feeds from the homepage - top level navigation options (lifestyle, entertainment) do not link anywhere with Javascript off - this is a pity since I am often on my mobile browsing news sites and having js turned on isn't always my preferred mode. Funny that they have not at least placed a default href in the navigation for these menu options - they have elsewhere, for example in 'Your Guide' section on the RHS all link out to relevant sites with Javascript off - inline styling - empty alt tags - popups (target=X) Other: - minimum browser width of 1024 (SMH, News and now nineMSN. Crikey.com.au are running min width 800 :-) Anyone else want to share their views with regards to the new nineMSN website (currently in beta) Kind regards, Brad *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Setting input heights in Safari
Try padding, John? Maybe that'll pump up the height. Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com - Original Message - From: John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: [WSG] Setting input heights in Safari Does anyone know of any workarounds for Safari not accepting height on text inputs? I've already tried setting the font-size, but to get the input to the right height, my text is going to need to be unfeasibly large. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Geoff Pack wrote: David Dorward wrote: No, since HTML expresses known semantics and random-XML doesn't. Surely the semantic meaning is in the actual tag names, not just the fact that they are standardised. It shouldn't matter as long as it's understandable. Anyway, you can always re-use as many of the HTML tags as you want, and make up your own when you need to. No, the semantics come from its definition, not its tag name. If a spec defines an element with the tag name j79hfd98y28 to be for marking up a person's name, then that's what it is. The tag name is just an opaque string that doesn't affect the semantics in any way. It just helps authors to have meaningful and memorable tag names. However, if you create your own generic XML document, using tag names like name and address, then those elements don't inherently have any semantics at all. Although you may define your own semantics, unless those semantics become known by others, the elements are meaningless to everyone else, and your semantics are totally useless. Semantics only become useful when there are tools that make use of them in a useful way. The semantics in HTML documents are useful because they are widely understood and implemented. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] New nineMSN website does not validate!
With so many validation errors it does not merit anymore time to look at it. Twice as bad as their last site! An advance up to 691 HTML errors http://validator.w3.org/check? uri=http%3A%2F%2Fbeta.ninemsn.com.au%2Fcharset=%28detect+automatically% 29doctype=Inline The old site only 300 validation errors http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://ninemsn.com.au/ Tim On 09/02/2007, at 3:17 PM, Jermayn Parker wrote: viewed any random page and I came to this http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=225480 this is almost impossible to view and read on firefox [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/02/2007 2:01:07 pm [Now that I have your attention] Ninemsn have a new website, currently in beta, demo it here: http://beta.ninemsn.com.au/ I like it, big improvement. You have come a long way nineMSN - congrats to design/development team. The positives: - easy on the eye, with a focus on information rather than advertising - good information architecture - navigation menu as lists - good cross browser capability - nice use of AJAX throughout (though nothing appears to have been done in terms of focussing on the dynamic content after it is rendered leaving screen readers unaware of what has happened - tested with browse mode off in window-eyes) - use of access keys (albeit only 2 instances) Not so positive: - i'd like a link to their rss feeds from the homepage - top level navigation options (lifestyle, entertainment) do not link anywhere with Javascript off - this is a pity since I am often on my mobile browsing news sites and having js turned on isn't always my preferred mode. Funny that they have not at least placed a default href in the navigation for these menu options - they have elsewhere, for example in 'Your Guide' section on the RHS all link out to relevant sites with Javascript off - inline styling - empty alt tags - popups (target=X) Other: - minimum browser width of 1024 (SMH, News and now nineMSN. Crikey.com.au are running min width 800 :-) Anyone else want to share their views with regards to the new nineMSN website (currently in beta) Kind regards, Brad *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** *** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. *** *** *** * The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 *** ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
On 2/9/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: No, the semantics come from its definition, not its tag name. If a spec defines an element with the tag name j79hfd98y28 to be for marking up a person's name, then that's what it is. The tag name is just an opaque string that doesn't affect the semantics in any way. It just helps authors to have meaningful and memorable tag names. However, if you create your own generic XML document, using tag names like name and address, then those elements don't inherently have any semantics at all. Although you may define your own semantics, unless those semantics become known by others, the elements are meaningless to everyone else, and your semantics are totally useless. Semantics only become useful when there are tools that make use of them in a useful way. The semantics in HTML documents are useful because they are widely understood and implemented. So nameJoe Blogs/name is meaningless with out a spec to tell me that 'name' means a name, while j79hfd98y28[EMAIL PROTECTED]*/j79hfd98y28 is meaningful if a spec says so? What if I write spec that says simply: The meanings of all my tags names are the same as the meanings defined in the Standard Oxford English Dictionary? What if I claim my spec to be the English language? I could then further claim my document is more widely understood (and implemented?) than HTML, simply because more people understand plain English than HTML. (I'm playing devil's advocate here, but only to show how absurd this is.) Welcome to web standards? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] is html done? [was semantics]
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Semantics only become useful when there are tools that make use of them in a useful way. On 2/8/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So nameJoe Blogs/name is meaningless with out a spec to tell me that 'name' means a name, while j79hfd98y28[EMAIL PROTECTED]*/j79hfd98y28 is meaningful if a spec says so? Read Lachlan's words carefully, Geoff. Using XML, you're free to define your own language with whatever tags you'd like. That doesn't mean there's any tool (e.g., web browser) that's going to be able to parse whatever tag in whatever language and apply semantic value to it. Just because I feel headerone or mysupercoolheadinglevela1abeachfrontavenue is a better way to specify a heading than h1, is it reasonable to expect a browser maker to cater to my linguistic whim? And by extension, to anyone's linguistic whim? Browsers don't handle any random tags, browsers work with a previously defined subset. That's just how they work. Atom feeds don't accept any old tags, either. OpenOffice.org documents, though they be XML, handle only a specific set of tags. I'm sensing a pattern. What if I write spec that says simply: The meanings of all my tags names are the same as the meanings defined in the Standard Oxford English Dictionary? What if I claim my spec to be the English language? I could then further claim my document is more widely understood (and implemented?) than HTML, simply because more people understand plain English than HTML. You might be able to get away with handling the presentation issues with CSS, but that's not going to help the semantics of your document. Human readability, unfortunately, does not translate to machine readability. If machines were completely capable of parsing natural language, we wouldn't be programming in Ruby, we'd be programming in Japanese. (I'm playing devil's advocate here, but only to show how absurd this is.) Yep. Love, Dan Dorman *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
