Re: Query regarding using aliases
Dear Barry, No I haven't done so yet. I shall do it straight away. Thanks. With best, Simon On 29 Jul 2009, at 21:57, Barry Hadder wrote: Simon, Have you tried putting your alias in to email field of the acount/info panel? If it is set up on the server, this should enable it to show up in the list. You just want to separate it from your other address with a cama. On Jul 29, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Simon Cavendish wrote: Dear Esther, Thank you for these steps regarding aliases. I indeed thought that it should be the case: i.e. one should be able to vo+arrow to the from button and there choose the alias one wishes. However, the difficulty is that the one I've created doesn't seem to feature. My main .me alias is listed but the other ones are not. I've just subscribed to a news letter using my alias - for argument's sake - s...@me.com, and I have just received a confirmation e-mail from the news letter website. I tried to reply to it as an exercise but my alias doesn't appear in the from list. It's strange. With Best wishes Simon On 27 Jul 2009, at 22:59, Esther wrote: Hi Simon and Barry, Here's the way I use aliases. You don't need to do anything to sync after you set them up, but you might need to restart mail if you set up your aliases at the MobileMe web site while your mail app is open. The following should work from your Apple mail app. 1. Command-R to reply to a message and type in your response 2. VO-Left arrow to the mail header. Normally this would take you to the From: field. You should now have a pop up button that lists the various mail aliases and the associated names. For example, you could have an email address that you use only for mailing lists like simon_c AT me.com and another one for business related correspondence like s_cavendish AT me.com, and these can be separate from your main email account. Dot Mac users who started services can use these with either the mac.com or me.com extensions, but new users can only use me.com. 3. Command-Shift-D to send the message. Barry, I suspect the reason that creating mail aliases is disabled for trial subscriptions is that created aliases cannot be re-used by anyone. So if you create lots of aliases and then discard them, you're taking those names permanently out of circulation for all current and future users. Having aliases is a great way to separate out your activities. MobileMe does a good job of spam filtering (so does Gmail), but if you don't want to give your primary email address when you sign up for a trial software use or in order to download Stuffit Expander from Smith Micro, you can give a mail alias designed for this purpose and set up a smart mailbox to keep these messages separate. HTH. Cheers, Esther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Query regarding using aliases
Hi Barry, Success! I've followed your advice, and indeed, my alias appears straight away in the from field. In fact, it was immediately chosen when I tried to reply to the subscription acknowledgement message I had tested on yesterday. I had no idea one had to add aliases in in the account info part of the preferences for the particular account. Many thanks, Simon On 30 Jul 2009, at 01:51, Barry Hadder wrote: Simon, I just added a list of aliases separated by comas in the acount/info email field and I'm getting them in the to list in the new message pain. HI can't use them of course as I don't have them on the server. owever, I think it will do it for you if you make sure you are sinking your email settings. I neglected that before because I was thinking that it only sync between computers. However, it occurred to me that it is also syncing with the on-line mail app. You would be doing me a small favor if you try it and let me know if it works as I'm trying this out at the moment. As I stated before, aliases aren't available to trial members. Thanks. On Jul 27, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Simon Cavendish wrote: Dear Listers, I've created a new alias under my .me account. I understand from the manual that I should from the point of creation of such an alias have an option under from field to choose which alias appears in the field on the recipient computer. When I activate the from button, I can't see my alias. Should I be able to see it? I thought the idea of having an alias means that you can choose a different e-mail address so that the main .me address remains hidden from view. Is that right? Thanks for any clues. Best wishes Simon --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
SV: american braille
Hi, Does this mean that it's possible to install a different table? If so, how is this done? I would like to use Danish braille but Apple so far has not been very forthcoming in this matter, so it would be great if I could just put it in myself on mhy own machine. Thanks Daniel _ Fra: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] På vegne af Anne Robertson Sendt: 21. juli 2009 07:24 Til: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Emne: Re: american braille Hello Anowk, Apple only provides American Braille, both contracted and uncontracted. My husband has provided French and Norwegian uncontracted Braille, but if you want Dutch Braille, please send me the code and my husband will provide it for you. We need the 8-dot patterns with the corresponding unicode symbol list. Cheers, Anne On Jul 21, 2009, at 7:00 AM, a radix wrote: Hi, I only tried the imac briefly in the apple store last week, but it can it be possible that it runs american braille? I dont mean the braille table, i sometimes use an american brialle table myself but I eman braille in general. I once got a brailleletter from the states and found it difficult to read, so I am guessing european and american braille mightr be different. Greetings, Anouk, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Emulate
hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
live mocha
hi has anyone tried www.livemocha.com with voiceover? it is a site to elarn languages online and I just wondered how accessible the courses where? Voiceover for me even when navigating the main page keeps throwing me out of the HTML aea if this is not fixed in snowleopard it makes navigating so much more effective on hate to say it, windows :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
Hi will, Go to menus in Safari and under develop menu, find user agent submenu and it is there. By the way, did you mean to send your query to the macvisionaries list? It came to my private mailbox. Best, Simon On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:04, william lomas wrote: hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
i did send the message straight to mac visionaries --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
don't like the voice on the i phone
Hi I am upset that alex is not used on the i phone. I would ahve thought apple would want to incorporate alex, as it gives the best quality regards will --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
Alex takes up way too much ram as I understand it. and there is another reason apple didn't or rather couldn't incorporate alex. I'm quite fond of Samantha. Alex may have been a little too soft to hear when out in busy places. On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:35 AM, william lomas wrote: Hi I am upset that alex is not used on the i phone. I would ahve thought apple would want to incorporate alex, as it gives the best quality regards will --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
No it is not, not on my Safari and I have the latest. On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:17, william lomas wrote: develop menu has gone On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:14, Simon Cavendish wrote: Hi will, Go to menus in Safari and under develop menu, find user agent submenu and it is there. By the way, did you mean to send your query to the macvisionaries list? It came to my private mailbox. Best, Simon On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:04, william lomas wrote: hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
lol so do i how strange On 30 Jul 2009, at 10:03, Simon Cavendish wrote: No it is not, not on my Safari and I have the latest. On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:17, william lomas wrote: develop menu has gone On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:14, Simon Cavendish wrote: Hi will, Go to menus in Safari and under develop menu, find user agent submenu and it is there. By the way, did you mean to send your query to the macvisionaries list? It came to my private mailbox. Best, Simon On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:04, william lomas wrote: hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hey everyone, I was just looking at a guardian tech article on the best iphone games for this summer, and thought it interesting to start a discussion on the concepts of gaming for a blind/visually impaired user. All of the technologies bundled into the iphone (touch screen, gravitometer, stereo audio) can probably allow us to use all these cues as a foundation for some interesting gaming experience. Imagine playing a sims game where you can actually direct your sim to move around place with gestures and create situations which will be fed back into the audio environment. There's this game on pc called sound RTS. in which you command an army and build villages to feed your barracks and send them out to the enemies. It's also a multiplayer game. The whole thing works on audio cues. Add the gestural commands and touchscreen integration and i'm sure we can get a few kicks out of a lot of different games to adjust to our needs. Another game which, to my knowledge, is very text based but with locational navigation, is The secret of monkey island. You can move the character around and unlock puzzles which are primarily combinations of an object with another or with dialogues in which you can get info for said objects. Wouldn't it be great if games such as this could be available for blind people? Here's the link to the article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/gallery/2009/jul/30/games-iphone --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
First you need to go to advanced preferences and turn on the develop menu. Note: this just tells the remote site you are something other then you are. It does not actually change the javascript interpretation. Jon On Jul 30, 2009, at 4:04 AM, william lomas wrote: hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Finder warning dialogs not speaking
I generally have not had a problem with these. They do not take focus, but you generally get a message saying Finder has a new window. Sometimes there are groups that you need to interact with that VO just says Unknown. I don't think Leopard has any in the system software, but I did come across these occasionally when running Tiger. Jon On Jul 29, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Woody Anna Dresner wrote: Hi, I moved a portable drive while copying some items to it, and it got disconnected. When I tried to do other things with Finder, I got warning messages saying the operation couldn't be completed. This would be fine, except that the warning dialogs didn't speak, nor did the buttons needed to deal with them. The only reason I know they were there is because my sighted husband helped me with them. Is there anything I can do to make these types of dialog boxes speak should I run into a similar situation in the future? Thanks, Anna --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Podcasting patented
Since a large amount of traffic on this list involves various folks sharing good info through podcasts I though you might be interested in this article about volomedia getting a patent on podcasting. Of course most of the discussion I've seen has revolved around lots of prior art that should have nullified the patent, but none of that has been proven in court yet. http://newteevee.com/2009/07/29/volomedia-awarded-the-patent-for-podcasting/ CB --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Finder warning dialogs not speaking
Anna,There are a couple of things you can check: 1. In Voiceover Utility, go to the Verbosity item and click on the Announcements tab. Make sure the Automatically speak text in dialog boxes checkbox is checked. 2. In System Preferences, go to the Speech pane and select Text to Speech. See if the Announce when alerts are displayed checkbox is checked. HTH Marsh On Jul 30, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote: I generally have not had a problem with these. They do not take focus, but you generally get a message saying Finder has a new window. Sometimes there are groups that you need to interact with that VO just says Unknown. I don't think Leopard has any in the system software, but I did come across these occasionally when running Tiger. Jon On Jul 29, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Woody Anna Dresner wrote: Hi, I moved a portable drive while copying some items to it, and it got disconnected. When I tried to do other things with Finder, I got warning messages saying the operation couldn't be completed. This would be fine, except that the warning dialogs didn't speak, nor did the buttons needed to deal with them. The only reason I know they were there is because my sighted husband helped me with them. Is there anything I can do to make these types of dialog boxes speak should I run into a similar situation in the future? Thanks, Anna --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: american braille
Hi. I am also interested in how to make danish braille for my mac. Where is the tables located on the mac, and how is the tables made. I found a little about it on the internet, but it is not very good described. I hope someone can help me. Best regards Annie. 2009/7/30, Daniel K. Gartmann li...@danielgartmann.dk: Hi, Does this mean that it's possible to install a different table? If so, how is this done? I would like to use Danish braille but Apple so far has not been very forthcoming in this matter, so it would be great if I could just put it in myself on mhy own machine. Thanks Daniel _ Fra: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] På vegne af Anne Robertson Sendt: 21. juli 2009 07:24 Til: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Emne: Re: american braille Hello Anowk, Apple only provides American Braille, both contracted and uncontracted. My husband has provided French and Norwegian uncontracted Braille, but if you want Dutch Braille, please send me the code and my husband will provide it for you. We need the 8-dot patterns with the corresponding unicode symbol list. Cheers, Anne On Jul 21, 2009, at 7:00 AM, a radix wrote: Hi, I only tried the imac briefly in the apple store last week, but it can it be possible that it runs american braille? I dont mean the braille table, i sometimes use an american brialle table myself but I eman braille in general. I once got a brailleletter from the states and found it difficult to read, so I am guessing european and american braille mightr be different. Greetings, Anouk, --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Finder warning dialogs not speaking
Hi Marshall, I had no idea about those text to speech options in System Preferences. Thanks so much - I bet checking the alert options will help a lot. best, Anna --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Format Utility
Hello, Is there a program that runs under Windows that will format an external USB drive in Mac OS format? Keith --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Format Utility
Hi Keith, Macdrive from www.mediafour.com can do this. It's a paid for product, but if you only need to do this once the trial version should do the job. There's usually about 1000 different ways of skinning each cat, so if it's not urgent wait a while and see what else the list comes back with, might be a free alternative that's as reliable and rhobust. Hth Scott On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:46:39 +400, Keith Bucher kbuc...@earth1.net wrote: Hello, Is there a program that runs under Windows that will format an external USB drive in Mac OS format? Keith --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
virtual Windows keeps requiring login
Hi, I'm running Windows XP via Fusion. If I switch away from it for a while, it requires that I log in before I can start using it again. I checked the Power settings in Control Panel, and it's set to never power off disks and never go into system standby. I also unchecked the Prompt for Password when computer returns from Standby check box. Is there something I need to do in Fusion as well? Thanks, Anna --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I haven't been to the site, because I just woke up, but if AudioQuake is not featured and highly praised on this site, I will be sorely disappointed. Audio Quake, from http://www.agrip.org.uk/ is, from what I've seen, still the best audio game ever devised. The only first-person shooter game that is not a side-scrolling two- dimensional only game, its basic design was vastly improved upon by Cara Quinn and others in 2007-2008. Look upon this game, ye blind, and enjoy. :) Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I don't know of this game or if it's on audiogames.com but I'm sure those guys would add it if it isn't already there. If you're looking for first person shooter, David Greenwood's Shades of Doom is amazing on Windows. He has some other 3D games that are masterfully crafted as well and all have free demo versions. Being a theorist and former VP of Software at Freedom Scientific (I left almost five years ago) I have been working with some other egghead types to figure out how a game can use 32 simultaneous audio tracks without overwhelming the user but a screen reader can only provide a syllable, a pause or a beep at a time. Why can't we build systems that exploit 3D audio for productivity and academic/scholastic purposes? I published an article in AFB's Access World on What Screen Readers can Learn from Audio Games a few years back. If you are interested in a lay version of this new science, read that piece as it covers a lot in a relatively short read. Happy Hacking, cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:26 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: I haven't been to the site, because I just woke up, but if AudioQuake is not featured and highly praised on this site, I will be sorely disappointed. Audio Quake, from http://www.agrip.org.uk/ is, from what I've seen, still the best audio game ever devised. The only first-person shooter game that is not a side-scrolling two- dimensional only game, its basic design was vastly improved upon by Cara Quinn and others in 2007-2008. Look upon this game, ye blind, and enjoy. :) Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
Yeesh, is there ever a time you're not complaining about something? I'm just sayin'. On Jul 30, 2009, at 4:35 AM, william lomas wrote: Hi I am upset that alex is not used on the i phone. I would ahve thought apple would want to incorporate alex, as it gives the best quality regards will -- Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY Create your own economic stimulus package: http://www.powermall.info --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
Hi, Will, I think it is under Advanced in Safari Preferences. You have to enable the Develop menu and it is under there. Regards, Alex, On 30-Jul-09, at 1:04 AM, william lomas wrote: hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
hi. i'm just curious. how do you change the voice in the iphone in case i wanted to hear what they're like? can't find this anywhere. On 7/30/09, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Will and anyone else interested in changing a voice on the iPhone, Have you tried the other English-language voices? I use the British one and am very happy with it. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
A question about iPhone
Hi all, i have just subscribed to this list and maybe this has already been asked but i just want to know. Tomorrow I am going to have a look at the iPhone. I have been using a Windows mobile phone for some time now and have a few questions. Is it possible to use the phones features without turning the actual phone on like the calendar and so on? Also, in the voicememo, is it possible to change recording format? Many thanks, Christian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
William, in safari's preferences you can check the checkbox for show develop menu in menu bar. Hth, Randy On Jul 30, 2009, at 4:17 AM, william lomas wrote: develop menu has gone On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:14, Simon Cavendish wrote: Hi will, Go to menus in Safari and under develop menu, find user agent submenu and it is there. By the way, did you mean to send your query to the macvisionaries list? It came to my private mailbox. Best, Simon On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:04, william lomas wrote: hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: SV: american braille
Hello Daniel, On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Daniel K. Gartmann wrote: Does this mean that it's possible to install a different table? If so, how is this done? I would like to use Danish braille but Apple so far has not been very forthcoming in this matter, so it would be great if I could just put it in myself on mhy own machine. To add a Braille table, you need to have the dot patterns and their related Unicode characters. These have to be incorporated into a Conversions table. If you could send me the Danish uncontracted Braille code, my husband can make a Danish Braille table for you. He's already made French and Norwegian tables. Unfortunately, he hasn't yet managed to work out how to make contracted Braille work for other languages. Please send any Braille codes to: cons...@anarchie.org.uk Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I really wonder why no one's heard of AudioQuake with MindGrid. The project has somewhat stalled out over the past two years, but the Jedi Quake, version, written by Cara Quinn and others, is the best 3D audio simulation I've seen. I can't speak for the parallel- processing audio capacity of the brain, but immediately this game and its maps made me start thinking about mobility orientation, applications. Having only ever encountered a mobility orienting instructor for the first time in memory last year, I don't know much about how most blind people do it, but I'm sure my skills aren't that different from the norm, and I saw implications for map-making and environment-learning, which is where I wanted to go with apps for the Iphone. I still have a Windows laptop running XP; I'll check out shades of doom. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
ah ok thanks. i'll have to see what that's like. On 7/30/09, Anne Robertson a...@anarchie.org.uk wrote: Hello Matthew, On Jul 30, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Matthew Elliff wrote: how do you change the voice in the iphone in case i wanted to hear what they're like? can't find this anywhere. Go to Settings, then General, then International, and finally, Region Format. There you'll find a long list of countries. There are 3 English-language voices, US, UK, and Australia. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Emulate
thanks randy and all all working you rock On 30 Jul 2009, at 17:09, Randy Stegall wrote: William, in safari's preferences you can check the checkbox for show develop menu in menu bar. Hth, Randy On Jul 30, 2009, at 4:17 AM, william lomas wrote: develop menu has gone On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:14, Simon Cavendish wrote: Hi will, Go to menus in Safari and under develop menu, find user agent submenu and it is there. By the way, did you mean to send your query to the macvisionaries list? It came to my private mailbox. Best, Simon On 30 Jul 2009, at 09:04, william lomas wrote: hi how do I emulate another browser in safari for certain sites? I am using 4.0.2 but can't fin the option to tricking sites into thinking safari is IE or osmething --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A question about iPhone
i think the phone and PDA functions are all as one but I could be wrong WIll On 30 Jul 2009, at 17:02, Christian wrote: Hi all, i have just subscribed to this list and maybe this has already been asked but i just want to know. Tomorrow I am going to have a look at the iPhone. I have been using a Windows mobile phone for some time now and have a few questions. Is it possible to use the phones features without turning the actual phone on like the calendar and so on? Also, in the voicememo, is it possible to change recording format? Many thanks, Christian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
searching
Hi all, How do I search for all files within a folder with a particular extension? Thanks you for any help. louie louiem...@wavecable.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
question about teathering with an iPhone
Hello all: I am considering getting an Iphone. I would replace an ATT 8525 which I currently have with ATT. I would like to have a couple of questions answered please! 1. Can you tether an Iphone to a laptop? 2. Can the Iphone be used as a wireless router? I am needing to have internet on a computer at church and want to use the 3G network connection. Any help with this would be appreciated. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: searching
Hi Louie, louie wrote: How do I search for all files within a folder with a particular extension? In Finder, start off at the folder you want to search (e.g., navigate there by selecting places in the sidebar and your arrow keys, or by using standard shortcuts for specific folders like Command-Shift-D for Desktop, Command-Shift A for Applications, Command-Shift-H for Home, etc., or by using Go to Folder Command-Shift-G and typing the path, which could be to an external hard drive). Then go to the search field in the toolbar (I use Command-Option-F, but you can navigate with your arrow keys, etc.). Type in a search term, stop interacting with the tool bar (VO-Shift-Up arrow). Then VO-Right arrow to the table. You'll now hear Search This Mac Your Folder Contents File name. Your Folder will be the selected radio button. Your search term will be matched to any of the contents entries, which could be name or kind. You can press the File name button to match file name. VO-Right arrow past the file name to the + button and press it (VO-Space) to get pop up buttons for more search terms like Name ends with and type in your argument. You can add more selections by continuing to VO-Right arrow and press the + button, then add arguments like Kind is Music or Last Modified Date is within the last 2 days, etc. When you finish adding rules, VO- right arrow to the table of results, interact, and examine the selections. HTH Cheers, Esther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: question about teathering with an iPhone
From what I've heard tethering is a feature supported or not by the carrier, not a limitation of the iphone. In the US ATT is the only carrier and they do not allow tethering. That said there are iphone apps (for now) which allow you to share your iphone data connection out as a wifi hot spot which you could then connect to via your laptop. Here is one article about that: http://lifehacker.com/5086490/the-best-way-to-tether-your-iphone-to-your-laptop-for-free CB Mickey Quenzer wrote: Hello all: I am considering getting an Iphone. I would replace an ATT 8525 which I currently have with ATT. I would like to have a couple of questions answered please! 1. Can you tether an Iphone to a laptop? 2. Can the Iphone be used as a wireless router? I am needing to have internet on a computer at church and want to use the 3G network connection. Any help with this would be appreciated. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re[2]: A question about iPhone
Hi, I will only be able to try it in the store so let's hope it will work. Many thanks, Christian On 2009-07-30 at 14:05 Chris Blouch wrote: Right. AFAIK there is no built in training so start reading through those online tutorials and listening to podcasts before you go. Note that the typical way to get VO turned on is to sync the phone with a mac that has VO turned on. Otherwise you'll need sighted assistance to turn it on in the preferences. When I first went to the ATT store here the demo units were not VO enabled. That makes some sense since it makes the gestures different and most potential customers will want the silent version. CB Christian wrote: Hi Chris, Many thanks for that info. We'll see how i like the iPhone tomorrow. When I turn on voiceOver for the first time, there is no training mode it just starts speaking and you are in the accessibility menu of the phone? Many thanks, Christian On 2009-07-30 at 12:53 Chris Blouch wrote: So you're asking about whether you can disable incoming/outbound calling but still used the other features? If so then you are probably talking about 'airplane mode' which turns off the wireless functions of your phone. You can also turn wifi back on in airplane mode but you can't do bluetooth. Voice memo records in the lossless m4a only so if you need something else you'll need to convert it after synching it to itunes or the like or use a different recording app. One review reccommended something called Retronyms but I don't know how accessible it is. CB Christian wrote: Hi all, i have just subscribed to this list and maybe this has already been asked but i just want to know. Tomorrow I am going to have a look at the iPhone. I have been using a Windows mobile phone for some time now and have a few questions. Is it possible to use the phones features without turning the actual phone on like the calendar and so on? Also, in the voicememo, is it possible to change recording format? Many thanks, Christian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A question about iPhone
Right. AFAIK there is no built in training so start reading through those online tutorials and listening to podcasts before you go. Note that the typical way to get VO turned on is to sync the phone with a mac that has VO turned on. Otherwise you'll need sighted assistance to turn it on in the preferences. When I first went to the ATT store here the demo units were not VO enabled. That makes some sense since it makes the gestures different and most potential customers will want the silent version. CB Christian wrote: Hi Chris, Many thanks for that info. We'll see how i like the iPhone tomorrow. When I turn on voiceOver for the first time, there is no training mode it just starts speaking and you are in the accessibility menu of the phone? Many thanks, Christian On 2009-07-30 at 12:53 Chris Blouch wrote: So you're asking about whether you can disable incoming/outbound calling but still used the other features? If so then you are probably talking about 'airplane mode' which turns off the wireless functions of your phone. You can also turn wifi back on in airplane mode but you can't do bluetooth. Voice memo records in the lossless m4a only so if you need something else you'll need to convert it after synching it to itunes or the like or use a different recording app. One review reccommended something called Retronyms but I don't know how accessible it is. CB Christian wrote: Hi all, i have just subscribed to this list and maybe this has already been asked but i just want to know. Tomorrow I am going to have a look at the iPhone. I have been using a Windows mobile phone for some time now and have a few questions. Is it possible to use the phones features without turning the actual phone on like the calendar and so on? Also, in the voicememo, is it possible to change recording format? Many thanks, Christian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
I LIKE THE AUSTRALIAN VOICE. IT'S NICE AND CLEAR. Peggy Fleischer peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net Jude 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen. On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Matthew, On Jul 30, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Matthew Elliff wrote: how do you change the voice in the iphone in case i wanted to hear what they're like? can't find this anywhere. Go to Settings, then General, then International, and finally, Region Format. There you'll find a long list of countries. There are 3 English-language voices, US, UK, and Australia. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
searching
Ester, This is very cool and it works to good. I just want to search the folder that I am in and not subfolders of the folder that I am in. louie louiem...@wavecable.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
Just curious, does changing to a different regional voice impact any of the other region settings? Donna On Jul 30, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Peggy Fleischer wrote: I LIKE THE AUSTRALIAN VOICE. IT'S NICE AND CLEAR. Peggy Fleischer peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net Jude 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen. On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Matthew, On Jul 30, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Matthew Elliff wrote: how do you change the voice in the iphone in case i wanted to hear what they're like? can't find this anywhere. Go to Settings, then General, then International, and finally, Region Format. There you'll find a long list of countries. There are 3 English-language voices, US, UK, and Australia. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
I'm told that the date format is affected by the regional settings, so if you're a north American and change to UK (perhaps Oz as well?), you'll get European date format, i.e. day/month/year. I actually prefer this, so no big deal to me. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
Hello Donna, On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: Just curious, does changing to a different regional voice impact any of the other region settings? Not as far as I can tell. I'm in France and use the UK setting for the voice some of the time, and the French voice at others, but nothing else seems to change, Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
oh so changing the region will just change the voice not the language of the whole OS On 30 Jul 2009, at 20:25, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Donna, On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: Just curious, does changing to a different regional voice impact any of the other region settings? Not as far as I can tell. I'm in France and use the UK setting for the voice some of the time, and the French voice at others, but nothing else seems to change, Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have an SDK for Mac and they do .5 mm tactile resolution (most humans can feel no better than .1 mm) so you can do extraordinary things with this device and they only cost about $ 100 (really). I like the idea of using the iPhone for orientation and to provide information about one's surroundings. I'm not especially impressed by the iPhone's Maps application but its location services are pretty excellent. I thought of this while walking through Harvard Yard after lunch today and wondered how a student new to the university would find the library as opposed to the historical center next door as none of these buildings have traditional street addresses and are arrived at by foot paths. Your idea could give a student a lot of good information and can be used as a fallback if they get confused. Cool idea. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: I really wonder why no one's heard of AudioQuake with MindGrid. The project has somewhat stalled out over the past two years, but the Jedi Quake, version, written by Cara Quinn and others, is the best 3D audio simulation I've seen. I can't speak for the parallel- processing audio capacity of the brain, but immediately this game and its maps made me start thinking about mobility orientation, applications. Having only ever encountered a mobility orienting instructor for the first time in memory last year, I don't know much about how most blind people do it, but I'm sure my skills aren't that different from the norm, and I saw implications for map-making and environment-learning, which is where I wanted to go with apps for the Iphone. I still have a Windows laptop running XP; I'll check out shades of doom. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I've heard there is a lot more to spacial placement than just fiddling with the pan to adjust volume levels. At least this seems obvious to me when a little pan to the left makes the sound fly way off to the left of the sound field. Probably a lot more going on in the ear that isn't fooled by that trick. So, that said, do you have any idea if the VoiceOver positional audio is doing real sound field magic or is it just a subtle pan? One underrated feature on the new iPhone is the compass. With this an application can not only know where you are but also which way you (or at least your phone) is pointed. This makes possible real walking directions from where you're at using left and right rather than assuming the user has their cardinal orientation correct. Even feedback to say what is in front of you in the direction you are pointing. Should be good things coming. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have an SDK for Mac and they do .5 mm tactile resolution (most humans can feel no better than .1 mm) so you can do extraordinary things with this device and they only cost about $ 100 (really). I like the idea of using the iPhone for orientation and to provide information about one's surroundings. I'm not especially impressed by the iPhone's Maps application but its location services are pretty excellent. I thought of this while walking through Harvard Yard after lunch today and wondered how a student new to the university would find the library as opposed to the historical center next door as none of these buildings have traditional street addresses and are arrived at by foot paths. Your idea could give a student a lot of good information and can be used as a fallback if they get confused. Cool idea. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: I really wonder why no one's heard of AudioQuake with MindGrid. The project has somewhat stalled out over the past two years, but the Jedi Quake, version, written by Cara Quinn and others, is the best 3D audio simulation I've seen. I can't speak for the parallel- processing audio capacity of the brain, but immediately this game and its maps made me start thinking about mobility orientation, applications. Having only ever encountered a mobility orienting instructor for the first time in memory last year, I don't know much about how most blind people do it, but I'm sure my skills aren't that different from the norm, and I saw implications for map-making and environment-learning, which is where I wanted to go with apps for the Iphone. I still have a Windows laptop running XP; I'll check out shades of doom. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re[2]: A question about iPhone
Hi, OK, any good tutorial or podcast i may listen to? On 2009-07-30 at 17:10 Chris Blouch wrote: Well, with voiceover on you can then follow the instructions here to turn it back off: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3577 CB Christian wrote: Hi, OK, but how do i close an application so that i can turn voiceover off before I leave the store? smile. Don't know what they will say if i leave that on, hahaha. On 2009-07-30 at 16:12 Chris Hofstader wrote: Turning the iPhone to Aircraft mode will turn off all wireless activity including the phone. If you want Blue Tooth, WiFi or 3G, though, I think the phone needs to be on as well. On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:37 PM, william lomas wrote: i think the phone and PDA functions are all as one but I could be wrong WIll On 30 Jul 2009, at 17:02, Christian wrote: Hi all, i have just subscribed to this list and maybe this has already been asked but i just want to know. Tomorrow I am going to have a look at the iPhone. I have been using a Windows mobile phone for some time now and have a few questions. Is it possible to use the phones features without turning the actual phone on like the calendar and so on? Also, in the voicememo, is it possible to change recording format? Many thanks, Christian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: something is a miss here.
Hi Erik, One quick question: when you run Disk Utility what reading do you get when you select the hard drive above Macintosh HD on the sidebar? That is, when you VO-Up arrow to something that says (for example, 232.9 GB Fujitsu etc.) Use item chooser menu to go to selected disk image and then VO-Right arrow and interact with the part that begins Disk Description. There should be an announcement of S.M.A.R.T. Status: Does it say verified after that announcement? You can sometimes recover from this with Alsoft's Disk Warrior but there are accessibility issues running from the DVD, I think. If it's on a cloned disk you can run it on your home disk drive through the clone. If you have a local Apple Store nearby, they can probably run this as a diagnostic on your hard drive. They might be willing to go ahead and run it on your hard drive if you bought a copy of the software from the store (though it's slightly cheaper from the web download.) And you should probably have a new hard drive to copy to before things get seriously worse and unrecoverable. Disk Warrior does work to recover in instances such as you describe, although given the circumstances I would ask at my local Apple Store and try to have them run this. I'm sure that every Genius bar has a copy of this. They can run the diagnosis for you even if they won't run the recovery. You should know that there is a possibility of introducing problems in doing the recover mode, but in most instances it just works, and the problems are minimal. In that case, if your disk has really gone south the amount of work you'd have to do to get the problem areas fully recovered without these glitches is quite major, and probably beyond your scope. Disk Warrior does work very well, although I haven't had to use it for quite a while -- since first upgrading to Leopard. Cheers, Esther erik burggraaf wrote: Hi friends. I think something is rong with my apple hardware. 3 or four weeks ago I started having checksums fail when I coppied things across the network from my old turion notebook to the macbook here. I thought it might be the disc on the other machine failing. It is 4 or 5 years old now after all. But I've also noticed I can't run digital voices like alex or ryan any more. The system doesn't stand for it. Even when I'm using fred or bruce vo restarts often, programs hang, and some times the whole system seems to go dead for a minute, the dvd drive resets, and then the system comes back to life as if nothing had happened. Yesterday I loaded up my windows vm here and tried to mac catalog my music folder and the wimdows system told me some fo the files couldn't be read. I repaired the permissions on my drive, but I checked the log thuroughly and nothing in my home folder had corupt permissions. I did a verify disc on the hard drive and everything came back OK, even though I sorely suspect that not to be the case. So, I loaded up off the cd and tried the varify, and it still says everything is OK. I suspect though that the hitacci hard drive in my macbook pro is failing. Is there any recorse for me somewhere in between disc utility from the install cd and dropping my macbook off at the apple store for a couple of days? A hitacci diagnostic that runs on mac OS10 for example, or another more thurough apple friendly third party diagnostic? Thanks, erik burggraaf A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A question about iPhone
Hi Chris, Thanks for that link. I didn't know there were Apple Knowledge Base instructions for turning VoiceOver Off on the iPhone 3GS. When I tried the iPhone 3GS and VoiceOver for the first time in the Apple Store, I stuck on the gesture for scrolling down to the accessibility screen (so that I could turn VoiceOver off before I left), and had to google the iPhone manual and read up on the three-finger scrolling gesture. Good thing it was easy to look this up on any Apple computer! Cheers, Esther Chris Blouch wrote: Well, with voiceover on you can then follow the instructions here to turn it back off: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3577 CB Christian wrote: Hi, OK, but how do i close an application so that i can turn voiceover off before I leave the store? smile. Don't know what they will say if i leave that on, hahaha. On 2009-07-30 at 16:12 Chris Hofstader wrote: Turning the iPhone to Aircraft mode will turn off all wireless activity including the phone. If you want Blue Tooth, WiFi or 3G, though, I think the phone needs to be on as well. On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:37 PM, william lomas wrote: i think the phone and PDA functions are all as one but I could be wrong WIll On 30 Jul 2009, at 17:02, Christian wrote: Hi all, i have just subscribed to this list and maybe this has already been asked but i just want to know. Tomorrow I am going to have a look at the iPhone. I have been using a Windows mobile phone for some time now and have a few questions. Is it possible to use the phones features without turning the actual phone on like the calendar and so on? Also, in the voicememo, is it possible to change recording format? Many thanks, Christian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
Hello Fonzie, On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:26 AM, Fonzie wrote: Where would one find the extra english voices? Was curious about them and what was offered. I posted this reply just a few hours ago, but here it is again. Go to Settings, then General, then International, and finally, Region Format. There you'll find a long list of countries. There are 3 English-language voices, US, UK, and Australia. I tried a few other countries, but they all gave me the US voice. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re[2]: don't like the voice on the i phone
Hi anne, an you try swedish? it should speak swedish but i just want to be sure. many thanks, Christian On 2009-07-31 at 01:18 Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Fonzie, On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:26 AM, Fonzie wrote: Where would one find the extra english voices? Was curious about them and what was offered. I posted this reply just a few hours ago, but here it is again. Go to Settings, then General, then International, and finally, Region Format. There you'll find a long list of countries. There are 3 English-language voices, US, UK, and Australia. I tried a few other countries, but they all gave me the US voice. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: something is a miss here.
Before you or anyone else does anything, make sure that you've cloaned your drive. Software wise, hsf is some what of a nightmair to recover files from so before any data recovery apps try and mess with anything, its important that you have an at least partially working copy of your harddrive stored someware. On 30/07/2009, erik burggraaf e...@erik-burggraaf.com wrote: Hi, thanks for all this. Smart status does in deed say varified. Do you remember off hand how much the apple store might charge me for disc warrier? I'm looking it up on the apple store online now, but if it's not expensive, say, under the $100 mark, I might just buy it from the apple store and let the geneus handle it. Best, erik burggraaf A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 30-Jul-09, at 5:33 PM, Esther wrote: Hi Erik, One quick question: when you run Disk Utility what reading do you get when you select the hard drive above Macintosh HD on the sidebar? That is, when you VO-Up arrow to something that says (for example, 232.9 GB Fujitsu etc.) Use item chooser menu to go to selected disk image and then VO-Right arrow and interact with the part that begins Disk Description. There should be an announcement of S.M.A.R.T. Status: Does it say verified after that announcement? You can sometimes recover from this with Alsoft's Disk Warrior but there are accessibility issues running from the DVD, I think. If it's on a cloned disk you can run it on your home disk drive through the clone. If you have a local Apple Store nearby, they can probably run this as a diagnostic on your hard drive. They might be willing to go ahead and run it on your hard drive if you bought a copy of the software from the store (though it's slightly cheaper from the web download.) And you should probably have a new hard drive to copy to before things get seriously worse and unrecoverable. Disk Warrior does work to recover in instances such as you describe, although given the circumstances I would ask at my local Apple Store and try to have them run this. I'm sure that every Genius bar has a copy of this. They can run the diagnosis for you even if they won't run the recovery. You should know that there is a possibility of introducing problems in doing the recover mode, but in most instances it just works, and the problems are minimal. In that case, if your disk has really gone south the amount of work you'd have to do to get the problem areas fully recovered without these glitches is quite major, and probably beyond your scope. Disk Warrior does work very well, although I haven't had to use it for quite a while -- since first upgrading to Leopard. Cheers, Esther erik burggraaf wrote: Hi friends. I think something is rong with my apple hardware. 3 or four weeks ago I started having checksums fail when I coppied things across the network from my old turion notebook to the macbook here. I thought it might be the disc on the other machine failing. It is 4 or 5 years old now after all. But I've also noticed I can't run digital voices like alex or ryan any more. The system doesn't stand for it. Even when I'm using fred or bruce vo restarts often, programs hang, and some times the whole system seems to go dead for a minute, the dvd drive resets, and then the system comes back to life as if nothing had happened. Yesterday I loaded up my windows vm here and tried to mac catalog my music folder and the wimdows system told me some fo the files couldn't be read. I repaired the permissions on my drive, but I checked the log thuroughly and nothing in my home folder had corupt permissions. I did a verify disc on the hard drive and everything came back OK, even though I sorely suspect that not to be the case. So, I loaded up off the cd and tried the varify, and it still says everything is OK. I suspect though that the hitacci hard drive in my macbook pro is failing. Is there any recorse for me somewhere in between disc utility from the install cd and dropping my macbook off at the apple store for a couple of days? A hitacci diagnostic that runs on mac OS10 for example, or another more thurough apple friendly third party diagnostic? Thanks, erik burggraaf A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com -- Kind regards, BEN. email: bmustillr...@gmail.com msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en
Re: something is a miss here.
I imagine Apple will charge the same as the vendor online, $99.95. Ironically, I found a message someone had sent to another list about this product and it apparently is the real deal. So, I'm giving some thought to purchasing it myself. I've been very lucky in that I have not lost any drives and I do have backups, but there is always that one chance and with a kid, well, hell, anything is possible. On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:05 PM, ben mustill-rose wrote: Before you or anyone else does anything, make sure that you've cloaned your drive. Software wise, hsf is some what of a nightmair to recover files from so before any data recovery apps try and mess with anything, its important that you have an at least partially working copy of your harddrive stored someware. On 30/07/2009, erik burggraaf e...@erik-burggraaf.com wrote: Hi, thanks for all this. Smart status does in deed say varified. Do you remember off hand how much the apple store might charge me for disc warrier? I'm looking it up on the apple store online now, but if it's not expensive, say, under the $100 mark, I might just buy it from the apple store and let the geneus handle it. Best, erik burggraaf A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 30-Jul-09, at 5:33 PM, Esther wrote: Hi Erik, One quick question: when you run Disk Utility what reading do you get when you select the hard drive above Macintosh HD on the sidebar? That is, when you VO-Up arrow to something that says (for example, 232.9 GB Fujitsu etc.) Use item chooser menu to go to selected disk image and then VO-Right arrow and interact with the part that begins Disk Description. There should be an announcement of S.M.A.R.T. Status: Does it say verified after that announcement? You can sometimes recover from this with Alsoft's Disk Warrior but there are accessibility issues running from the DVD, I think. If it's on a cloned disk you can run it on your home disk drive through the clone. If you have a local Apple Store nearby, they can probably run this as a diagnostic on your hard drive. They might be willing to go ahead and run it on your hard drive if you bought a copy of the software from the store (though it's slightly cheaper from the web download.) And you should probably have a new hard drive to copy to before things get seriously worse and unrecoverable. Disk Warrior does work to recover in instances such as you describe, although given the circumstances I would ask at my local Apple Store and try to have them run this. I'm sure that every Genius bar has a copy of this. They can run the diagnosis for you even if they won't run the recovery. You should know that there is a possibility of introducing problems in doing the recover mode, but in most instances it just works, and the problems are minimal. In that case, if your disk has really gone south the amount of work you'd have to do to get the problem areas fully recovered without these glitches is quite major, and probably beyond your scope. Disk Warrior does work very well, although I haven't had to use it for quite a while -- since first upgrading to Leopard. Cheers, Esther erik burggraaf wrote: Hi friends. I think something is rong with my apple hardware. 3 or four weeks ago I started having checksums fail when I coppied things across the network from my old turion notebook to the macbook here. I thought it might be the disc on the other machine failing. It is 4 or 5 years old now after all. But I've also noticed I can't run digital voices like alex or ryan any more. The system doesn't stand for it. Even when I'm using fred or bruce vo restarts often, programs hang, and some times the whole system seems to go dead for a minute, the dvd drive resets, and then the system comes back to life as if nothing had happened. Yesterday I loaded up my windows vm here and tried to mac catalog my music folder and the wimdows system told me some fo the files couldn't be read. I repaired the permissions on my drive, but I checked the log thuroughly and nothing in my home folder had corupt permissions. I did a verify disc on the hard drive and everything came back OK, even though I sorely suspect that not to be the case. So, I loaded up off the cd and tried the varify, and it still says everything is OK. I suspect though that the hitacci hard drive in my macbook pro is failing. Is there any recorse for me somewhere in between disc utility from the install cd and dropping my macbook off at the apple store for a couple of days? A hitacci diagnostic that runs on mac OS10 for example, or another more thurough apple friendly third party diagnostic? Thanks, erik burggraaf A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com -- Kind
Re: don't like the voice on the i phone
Thanks for the information Ann. Was amazed to find a lot of languages there. Preetty neat if you ask me. Take care of yourself. Fonzie On Jul 30, 2009, at 6:18 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: Hello Fonzie, On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:26 AM, Fonzie wrote: Where would one find the extra english voices? Was curious about them and what was offered. I posted this reply just a few hours ago, but here it is again. Go to Settings, then General, then International, and finally, Region Format. There you'll find a long list of countries. There are 3 English-language voices, US, UK, and Australia. I tried a few other countries, but they all gave me the US voice. Cheers, Anne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi everyone, Thanks for the amazing response and information pertaining to this indeed very intriguing field. I can't get the concept out of my head as this promises many new applications for the visually impaired provided the technologies discussed herein are actually possible within the API set of the iphone's SDK. I agree that one of themoreimportant aspects of a true audio is positional audio. For the example of a audio based RPG/adventure game, the tactile experience adding further dimension to the experience comparable to a wii interface can be extremely satisfying as there is a contextual assimilation of imaginary interpretations within the application. I think i will document myself extensively on the iphone SDK and figure some avenues yet to be explored for the blind community. If anyone is interested in brainstorming over this subject, and if anyone has some previous experience little or lots on the SDK, you can contact me on skype as shainobi1 and triple7 for twitter. Again, thank you so much for the varied responses and i hope this discussion can generate some form ofdevelopement of a new gaming experience in the future to come. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Just to throw out the rest of my ideas for Iphone apps, what I'd really like to do is develop a way for blind people to build up a map, of their area/environment and, using the Iphone's inertial guidance capacity (accelerometer, compass, tilt meeter, GPS when available, etc.) to Place, a blind person on this map. I've even thought about using RFID tags, if the Iphone can transceive at the right RF frequency, which a blind person could mark, their environment with. This would allow the blind user to add various details to a larger map or build a separate one for inside buildings, etc., places where GPS doesn't reach yet. Another direction to take this would be the use of 3D sound and brief sonic cues to get a sense of where a person is. I haven't figured out yet whether the camera may be used to give additional cues, and all this depends upon the Iphone being held in a stable position, and I haven't even gotten into the SDK yet, so there's my brain storm, for what it's worth. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Yes, the Iphone uses an OOP--in fact, from what I understand, you can program in anything--C++, for example, so yes; the architecture of the objects would have to swap data back and forth, but it's pretty modular. One way around the processing load might be to establish a link back to the user's home computer--desktop, laptop, whatever, which might be able to do some of the work, depending on band width, comm reception, etc. Thanks for the reading matter; I'm going to have to look into this further. Since I don't have an Iphone, nor a job to generate the money for one, I'll have to find someone's Iphone to field test the stuff on; I intend to contact Apple about beta testing some stuff, too. Right now, I'm sorta in a stuck mode, spinning my wheels (which makes my dog look at me funny), though. working on that, too... Your description of tactile interface between environmental components and the user leads me to wonder, How will the computer know to produce a splashing sound for water, or rustle of leaves for plants? That kind of pattern recognitions and intuitive guess work is far beyond anything I've ever seen done with a computer. This is one of the major problems with an environment like Second Life, even with Max the Guide Dog's assistance; too hard to recognize ambiguous environmental components. Definitely got some reading to do. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
For the subtle interaction of tactile search and audio feedback of components, i revert to shape actions i used a lot for interaction in flash. The secret of monkey island used to be a comic 2d style of graphics. I believe it has made the jump to 3d but wouldn't it possible to associate a second layer comprised of rgb values to which the area of tactile search would ignite a sound? I see a problem in this as a game of the scale of monkey island (i term this game a lot so that the discussion stays consistent) would be having a huge library of predefined sounds from which the program would pick. But when you are in a linear style of adventure gaming, there is so much to cue oneself from. I also have a lot to read on, and i also see a logistics issue which needs to be adressed were i to get into this. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Iphone and deleting gmail
OK, I've done some research, and have figured some things out. From what I can tell, I am not getting messages in my inbox that I have already deleted. First, I went to gmail's instructions for setting up an account on the IPhone. It told me to go to add account, which I did. Because I always read the instructions as a last result, I clicked on the gmail icon and entered my gmail account info. I went back to the instructions to see what I needed to do next and found out that it instructed me not to click on the gmail setup icon because e-mails would be handled differently if I did. As it turns out after reading further, e-mail works exactly as we want if you use the automatic setup for gmail. I tested this by sending myself an e-mail to my gmail account. I saw it in my Outlook gmail inbox as well as on my IPhone. I deleted the e-mail from my IPhone then looked at my Outlook account. What I found was that the e-mail went to the trash folder, which will not reload in your inbox. Those e-mails will stay in the trash for 30 days, at which time they will delete. I'm thinking that maybe some people actually followed the setup instructions and clicked on other instead of the automatic gmail setup. If that is the case, I would delete the account and start over. If this is not what happened, then I'm at a loss because mine is working exactly as I want. Hope this helps. Kim --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
