Setting up a mac to use my account

[Terri Stimmel]

Hello everyone,


I honestly can't remember if I already asked this, or not. So if I did, 
I do apologize.


I have a Mac laptop that was given to me. It was a dear friend's of 
mine! It is running Yosemite and can not be upgraded.


When they gave it to me, they didn't clear off their account, from what 
I can tell. I don't have any CD's or anything like that to go with it, 
or to re-install anything.


So can I somehow set it up to use my account?

If so, what would I need to do?

Also, is there a website I can go to, where I can read about different 
Apps I could use with my Mac?


Thank you,


Terri

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RE: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Simon Fogarty]

If you set the device up using back up from an older device or itunes backup, 
then use it.

Only problem though is if the backup uses an older OS version then the update / 
resetup wont work.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2018 3:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: I have stepped into the future and have a question

Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and now i 
wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having to start 
from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my apps, favorites 
and contacts and so on back.
I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the life 
of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my iPhone 7 
plus. Can someone please help?
Thanks,
/Krister

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RE: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi ET,

Yes, I have some issues with 3rd gen apps and performance of the tv and vo with 
them.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2018 3:54 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Phil,
Please do not add legitimacy to the clown in the big white house and his 
"fake news". (smile)

You do understand. I've not seen any serious complaints about the 4th gen's 
accessibility except with regard to some third party apps. I would be happy to 
relieve you of your 4th and you can go back to your 3rd.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 3/13/2018 6:53 AM, Phil Halton wrote:
> I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
> is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
> third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
> was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very 
> definition of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to 
> the fourth GEN and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, 
> it’s kind of clunky in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its 
> advantages especially with the Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third 
> GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I just had to chime in because you really blew 
> my mind with that statement.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>
>>I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I 
>> can access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
>> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
>> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
>> short.
>>
>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>> true?
>>
>>> On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is 
>>> selling his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
>>> I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you 
>>> blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
>>> Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming 
>>> services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
>>> Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
>>> Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
>>> Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for the 
>>> rest of the family?
>>> Nickus
>>
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RE: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Simon Fogarty]

I've had a forth gen and now have a 4K the next step up,

 Can't say  it's perfect as a device but hell accessibility isn't an issue.

 The performance with some apps is an issue 
But hell  I've got no issues in most cases 
I use my apple tv everyday.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Phil Halton
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2018 2:53 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very definition 
of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to the fourth GEN 
and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, it’s kind of clunky 
in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its advantages especially with the 
Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I 
just had to chime in because you really blew my mind with that statement.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I can 
> access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
> short.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
> true?
> 
>> On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
>> Hi all
>> I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is selling 
>> his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
>> I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you 
>> blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
>> Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming 
>> services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
>> Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
>> Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
>> Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for the 
>> rest of the family?
>> Nickus
> 
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Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Tim Kilburn]

Good job.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 13, 2018, at 14:52, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:

I managed to get everything right, but it took a little fiddling. I reset the 
phone and then managed to get my apps and settings back in place again by 
choosing to set up the phone from a backup in iCloud so everything is back to 
normal again and i can start enjoying my new iPhone X.

> 13 mars 2018 kl. 21:17 skrev Maria Reyes  >:
> 
> to be honest, I set up my iPhone X as new. The only thing is I think you 
> still have to download your apps iCloud won't do it. Someone correct me if 
> I'm wrong. 
> 
> Maria Reyes 
> Owner of the Apple 411 list: 
> apple411+subscr...@groups.io  
> Click this link to join the Apple 411 WhatsApp group: 
> https://chat.whatsapp.com/0bMtIrmqoyzJwnbRjqjPsO 
> 
> 
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Eileen Scrivani  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>  
>> By any chance, did you backup your previous phone before getting rid of it? 
>> You can do a restore from the backup to the IPhone 10. It sounds like you’ve 
>> already set the new phone up, but I know that when I did the setup on mine, 
>> there is a point during setup where if you just hold the old phone next to 
>> the new phone it copies over all or at least most of your settings. Of 
>> course this requires that you still have the older phone.
>>  
>> Good luck.
>>  
>> Eileen
>>  
>>  
>> From: Krister Ekstrom <>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:56 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <>
>> Subject: I have stepped into the future and have a question
>>  
>> Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and 
>> now i wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having 
>> to start from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my 
>> apps, favorites and contacts and so on back.
>> I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the 
>> life of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my 
>> iPhone 7 plus. Can someone please help?
>> Thanks,
>> /Krister
>> 
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RE: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[M. Taylor]

Hello,

Well, since everyone is chiming in on this, I’ll add my proverbial two cents.  

Frankly, I do not like the Siri remote.  I find it extremely fatiguing on my 
fingers—especially the touch pad area.

A couple of years ago, I unpaired my Apple Third Generation remote from my 4th 
gen.  I have never ceased to regret it.  I keep saying I’m going to pair it 
back, again but …

Anyway, I have come to use Siri voice controls more and more as using the 
physical touch pad frustrates me to know end.

Mark


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 11:39 AM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Nickus,

Yes, I have used Apple TVs (from 2nd to 4th gen) for years now so I am used to 
them. I actually think the accessibility has been very good on them until TVOS 
11. I wish I never upgraded.

The issues with the remote have always been there for the Siri remote but the 
software / keyboard issues that I was mentioning are just in TVOS 11.X.

I wish I had something better to say about it but I don’t! :)

However, having said all this, I still use (or fight with) my Apple TV 4th gen 
every day. If you’ve never had one before, I still do think you will like 
having it. I do not know of any other set-top box which is more accessible, 
even given the shortcomings we’ve been talking about.

So enjoy! :)

Cheers!

Cara

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Nickus de Vos  wrote:

Cara, thanks for your detailed reply, it seams you have extensive experience 
using the Apple TV, all of it unfortunately not smooth saling it seams.

I guess in this case we as a community should pressure Apple more to get 
Voiceover support jacked up on the Apple TV. I guess since TV OS is quite new 
they can be somewhat excused, plus I’m sure they didn’t quite invission that 
blind people will use Apple TV so extensively.

Sounds to me that TV OS is currently where Mac OS was just a couple of years 
ago, with some major flaws in some areas when it comes to Voiceover.

Nickus
> On 13 Mar 2018, at 18:23, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
> 4th Gen.
> 
> In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
> accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.
> 
> There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.
> 
> The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
> disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
> that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
> triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to 
> leave the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.
> 
> I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
> have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both 
> remotes work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th 
> Gen with VO apparently.
> 
> secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
> absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
> using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
> this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad 
> on the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many 
> complaints from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go 
> and read reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every 
> single review is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. 
> This is actually the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.
> 
> Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
> suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility 
> team has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO 
> on the Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.
> 
> Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
> regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
> Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four 
> directions on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, 
> the arrows do not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot 
> move straight down on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a 
> huge problem in that it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to 
> go, but there are actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using 
> the keyboard. You actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard 
> and use the remote to move the cursor.
> 
> Now, if this were a design issue across the board for 

Re: Face id question

[Maria Reyes]

Your message did go to the thread about Face ID though. 

Maria Reyes 
Owner of the Apple 411 list: 
apple411+subscr...@groups.io 
Click this link to join the Apple 411 WhatsApp group: 
https://chat.whatsapp.com/0bMtIrmqoyzJwnbRjqjPsO

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 8:00 PM, Eileen Scrivani  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I don’t know what happened. One second I was reading Crister’s message 
> and hit the reply. After I sent the message, I realized it was Donna’s 
> message.
>  
> Eileen
>  
>  
> From: Eileen Scrivani
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:57 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Face id question
>  
> I turned Attention to off because if I have trouble focusing on exactly the 
> area on the screen where its looking to scan it makes it easier to unlock if 
> Attention is not on.
>  
> Eileen
>  
> From: Donna Goodin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:24 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Face id question
>  
> Hi Krister,
> 
> I have that turned off.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > To those who use Face ID, do you use it with the extra Attention mode or do 
> > you have that turned off?
> > I tried the attention mode and it was almost impossible to open the phone 
> > then. I just wondered how you other people do it?
> > /Krister
> > 
> > -- 
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Fw: Face id question

[Eileen Scrivani]

Sorry, I don’t know what happened. One second I was reading Crister’s message 
and hit the reply. After I sent the message, I realized it was Donna’s message.

Eileen


From: Eileen Scrivani 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:57 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Face id question

I turned Attention to off because if I have trouble focusing on exactly the 
area on the screen where its looking to scan it makes it easier to unlock if 
Attention is not on.

Eileen

From: Donna Goodin 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:24 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Face id question

Hi Krister,

I have that turned off.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> To those who use Face ID, do you use it with the extra Attention mode or do 
> you have that turned off?
> I tried the attention mode and it was almost impossible to open the phone 
> then. I just wondered how you other people do it?
> /Krister
> 
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Re: Face id question

[Eileen Scrivani]

I turned Attention to off because if I have trouble focusing on exactly the 
area on the screen where its looking to scan it makes it easier to unlock if 
Attention is not on.

Eileen

From: Donna Goodin 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:24 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Face id question

Hi Krister,

I have that turned off.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> To those who use Face ID, do you use it with the extra Attention mode or do 
> you have that turned off?
> I tried the attention mode and it was almost impossible to open the phone 
> then. I just wondered how you other people do it?
> /Krister
> 
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Skype question

[Bill Holton]

Hi.
I have been off list for a while, but recently when I installed the latest HS 
Skype stopped working.  I thought I had installed the latest version, but all I 
get is a  “no open windows” screen.  Any thoughts appreciated.
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:26 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?
 
Hi Tim,
 
In regard to the keyboard, I cannot even access the rotor. How are you doing it?
 
If I try to toggle quick nav on or off, nothing happens at all. So I have no 
rotor access from the keyboard.
 
How are you making this work?
 
Thanks bunches!
 
Cara
 
---
iOS design and development - LookTel.com  
---
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Follow me on Twitter!
 
https://twitter.com/ModelCara
 
On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Tim Kilburn  > wrote:
 
Hi,
 
A couple of items to bring forward here with respect to the Siri Remote and the 
Bluetooth keyboard operation.  First, for both devices, it is important to 
consider the rotor control.  When the rotor is set to certain items, navigation 
by both the remote and the Bluetooth keyboard is sometimes less than intuitive. 
 What I've found is that it is often advisable to change the rotor to a 
different item such as "Words", "Navigation" or "Explore".  Also, consider that 
Direct Touch can really make things difficult if you're not accustomed to it 
and will make things skip around if you're not careful.  Second, there are a 
few gestures such as swiping up with two fingers to repeat hits that you may 
find useful.  Yes, the touch-screen is rather small, but practice usually makes 
your life easier.
 
Later...
 
 
Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 
 
On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17, Eileen Scrivani  > wrote:
 
Hi Kara,
 
I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.
 
I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and 
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.
 
Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.
 
Eileen
 
From: Cara Quinn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?
 
Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from 

Re: Face id question

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi.

If you set up Face ID first without tension, as voice over won't let you put it 
on first, once Face ID is set, you can turn Tention on providing that it can 
see the eyes.  That is how I use mine.
> On 13 Mar 2018, at 20:57, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> To those who use Face ID, do you use it with the extra Attention mode or do 
> you have that turned off?
> I tried the attention mode and it was almost impossible to open the phone 
> then. I just wondered how you other people do it?
> /Krister
> 
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Re: Face id question

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Krister,

I have that turned off.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> To those who use Face ID, do you use it with the extra Attention mode or do 
> you have that turned off?
> I tried the attention mode and it was almost impossible to open the phone 
> then. I just wondered how you other people do it?
> /Krister
> 
> -- 
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Re: Creative's new Super X-Fi audio tech is frigging mind-blowing, CNET

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
THis sounds really intresting.
I was very sceptical about creative long ago but they seem to have become more 
and more interesting as a company.
/A

> 13 mars 2018 kl. 00:57 skrev M. Taylor :
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am posting the following article not because it is directly linked to
> Apple but because I feel that this could be a significant breakthrough for
> the future audio accessories for Apple products.
> 
> Mark
> 
> Creative's new Super X-Fi audio tech is frigging mind-blowing, CNET
> 
> Creative's new Super X-Fi audio tech is frigging mind-blowing
> The company known for Soundblaster finally has a new killer product, and
> you'll probably want one too.
> By Aloysius Low, March 2, 2018 3:08 AM PST
> 
> 
> Creative's Super X-Fi chip aims to open up your ears.
> 
> When Creative called me up to ask if I was interested in hearing something
> incredible, I was skeptical but curious.
> After all, this was Creative we were talking about, the creator of the
> SoundBlaster, the default standard for audio in PCs in the '90s and early
> '00s, but the company as a whole hadn't really had a major hit since.
> The company felt like it was in a death spiral after releasing a string of
> uninteresting products, and while it made a brief splash with its $5,800
> Creative Sonic Carrier, that didn't exactly revive the company's fortunes --
> no thanks to the crazy high price tag.
> That's all about to change, it seems. Creative's CEO and founder Sim Wong
> Hoo claims to have found the holy grail of sound for headphones: The
> company's new Super X-Fi technology can turn ordinary headphones into
> wondrous surround-sound setups. And having tried out the demo personally, I
> think Sim may be on to something. 
> Magical sound
> The name Super X-Fi may make this product sound like an upgrade to the
> Creative's existing X-Fi tech, but it's a whole new ballgame for the
> company. The tech is a result of $100 million invested over 20 years of R,
> all with the aim of figuring out how to make earphones sound natural and not
> feel like the sound is "trapped in your head."
> "We sold tons of headphones but I don't use them. It doesn't feel natural. I
> can't stand the sound. It's constricted in my head and I don't want to
> stress myself," said Sim.
> Over the two decades of R, the Creative CEO would reject the prototypes
> that made their way to him every other year. Even when the team finally
> thought it had cracked the puzzle last year, Sim had the design sent back
> five times. He wasn't even sure if Creative had anything ready to showcase
> at CES 2018. 
> But 20 years of effort seems to have paid off. The result is a the Super
> X-Fi chip, located on a $150 dongle, similar to the more expensive portable
> amplifier for earphones you'd find in the market. The dongle can turn the
> sound from your single-driver headphone into a device capable of delivering
> 7.1 3D surround sound that's natural and realistic.
> 
> The $150 dongle will sit between your phone and headphones.
> It's not just a case of pumping out 3D sound out. Everyone's ears are
> different and this affects the way audio is received. To make sure it sounds
> right for every individual, Creative spent time scanning ears, collecting
> data on how sound is received and training an AI to predict a custom sound
> map. Once that was done, Creative was able to work its Super X-Fi magic.
> And it really is magical.
> First I took photos of both my ears and face with an app to get my custom
> sound map. Then I sat down in a home theatre equipped with expensive
> up-firing speakers for Dolby Atmos effects. Finally I had to take another
> measurement of my ears by inserting two microphones while a test track
> played.
> The additional calibration wasn't exactly needed, but Creative wanted
> another profile to show how close it could come to mimicking an actual room.
> The default sound profile for Super X-Fi is taken in a smaller room, which
> sounds slightly different as well. 
> From there, Creative started playing a Dolby Atmos demo video, with sounds
> coming from the left, right and above. I was then told to put on a headset,
> and Creative repeated the video. I assumed I would have been able to tell
> the difference, but the audio coming out of the headphones sounded exactly
> the same as what I'd previously heard.
> I thought it was a trick -- the headphones weren't playing anything, but the
> speakers were still blasting away. So when I took the cans off to find
> myself listening to nothing but silence, I think I swore out loud. I was
> completely blown away.
> During the subsequent demos, I switched between the calibrated profile and
> the one the AI picked for my ears, and found that there was a difference
> between the two. Creative told me that in the future you'll be able to
> switch to different sound stages. When you play music tracks, it expands the
> sound space, making it seem like you're attending a live performance. 

Re: Face id question

[Maria Reyes]

I use the attention aware feature off. 

Maria Reyes 
Owner of the Apple 411 list: 
apple411+subscr...@groups.io 
Click this link to join the Apple 411 WhatsApp group: 
https://chat.whatsapp.com/0bMtIrmqoyzJwnbRjqjPsO

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 4:57 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> To those who use Face ID, do you use it with the extra Attention mode or do 
> you have that turned off?
> I tried the attention mode and it was almost impossible to open the phone 
> then. I just wondered how you other people do it?
> /Krister
> 
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Face id question

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi,
To those who use Face ID, do you use it with the extra Attention mode or do you 
have that turned off?
I tried the attention mode and it was almost impossible to open the phone then. 
I just wondered how you other people do it?
/Krister

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Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Krister Ekstrom]

I managed to get everything right, but it took a little fiddling. I reset the 
phone and then managed to get my apps and settings back in place again by 
choosing to set up the phone from a backup in iCloud so everything is back to 
normal again and i can start enjoying my new iPhone X.

> 13 mars 2018 kl. 21:17 skrev Maria Reyes :
> 
> to be honest, I set up my iPhone X as new. The only thing is I think you 
> still have to download your apps iCloud won't do it. Someone correct me if 
> I'm wrong. 
> 
> Maria Reyes 
> Owner of the Apple 411 list: 
> apple411+subscr...@groups.io  
> Click this link to join the Apple 411 WhatsApp group: 
> https://chat.whatsapp.com/0bMtIrmqoyzJwnbRjqjPsO 
> 
> 
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Eileen Scrivani  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>  
>> By any chance, did you backup your previous phone before getting rid of it? 
>> You can do a restore from the backup to the IPhone 10. It sounds like you’ve 
>> already set the new phone up, but I know that when I did the setup on mine, 
>> there is a point during setup where if you just hold the old phone next to 
>> the new phone it copies over all or at least most of your settings. Of 
>> course this requires that you still have the older phone.
>>  
>> Good luck.
>>  
>> Eileen
>>  
>>  
>> From: Krister Ekstrom <>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:56 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <>
>> Subject: I have stepped into the future and have a question
>>  
>> Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and 
>> now i wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having 
>> to start from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my 
>> apps, favorites and contacts and so on back.
>> I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the 
>> life of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my 
>> iPhone 7 plus. Can someone please help?
>> Thanks,
>> /Krister
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Maria Reyes]

to be honest, I set up my iPhone X as new. The only thing is I think you still 
have to download your apps iCloud won't do it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

Maria Reyes 
Owner of the Apple 411 list: 
apple411+subscr...@groups.io 
Click this link to join the Apple 411 WhatsApp group: 
https://chat.whatsapp.com/0bMtIrmqoyzJwnbRjqjPsO

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Eileen Scrivani  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>  
> By any chance, did you backup your previous phone before getting rid of it? 
> You can do a restore from the backup to the IPhone 10. It sounds like you’ve 
> already set the new phone up, but I know that when I did the setup on mine, 
> there is a point during setup where if you just hold the old phone next to 
> the new phone it copies over all or at least most of your settings. Of course 
> this requires that you still have the older phone.
>  
> Good luck.
>  
> Eileen
>  
>  
> From: Krister Ekstrom
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:56 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: I have stepped into the future and have a question
>  
> Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and now 
> i wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having to 
> start from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my apps, 
> favorites and contacts and so on back.
> I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the life 
> of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my iPhone 7 
> plus. Can someone please help?
> Thanks,
> /Krister
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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Hulu, accessibility on both th phone iPad and APPLE Tv.

[Timothy Emmons]

Sent from my iPhoneHi guys, I have a curious accessibility question I need some 
assistance with. I just started, or I shoud a, my family and I just go id of 
cable and ae uing Hulu, Neflix, ime, and oomarang for our cable services, and 
are pretty excited about it. However, I have some questions and a few issues. 
Hulu, for instance. I noticed I can't seem to navigate it on the IPhone 7 plus, 
or the IPad Mini. Are there some tricks that work with making it accessible 
with voiceover? Is it accessible on the Apple Tv 4th Gen? Also, Boomarang seems 
to have the same interface. Is there any suggestions you can give me on 
that?Ne!flix is great, and so is 
prime, but Hulu is my bump in the road as it were. Any help would be 
appreciated. Thanks for any help you can give. Take care. 

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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Eileen Scrivani]

Cara,

I don’t think I made change to the setting. Do you know what it is called & 
under what will I find it?

Thanks.

Eileen


From: Cara Quinn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:21 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Hi Eileen, 

Yes, the situation with the cursor flying is one that many sighted people keep 
bringing up again and again in reviews. So trust me, this is not you at all! :) 
This is a shortcoming of the interface.

There is a way to change the sensitivity of the touch pad in Settings though. 
Have you tried that?

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Cara


On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Eileen Scrivani  wrote:

Hi Kara,

I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.

I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and 
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.

Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.

Eileen

From: Cara Quinn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.

Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four directions 
on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, the arrows do 
not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot move straight down 
on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a huge problem in that 
it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to go, but there are 
actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using the keyboard. You 
actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard and use the remote 
to move the cursor.

Now, if this were a design issue 

Re: Spam calls: how to stop the robots from calling your iPhone or Android, The Verge

[Jeff Berwick]

Based on the article, they only offer it to people on post-paid plans—not to 
those on pre-paid plans.


> On Mar 13, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Marie Lyons  wrote:
> 
> What does that have to do with the providers free service for robo calls?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
>> 
>> I think it refers to paying your bill at the end of your cycle “post” rather 
>> than paying for it prior to your billing period “pre.”
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 5:54 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> From the online dictionary courtesy Google.
>>> 
>>>  (with reference to a letter or parcel) on which postage has already been 
>>> paid.
>>>  "use the postpaid envelope provided"
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 3/12/2018 2:37 PM, Marie Lyons wrote:
 post paid means?
>>> 
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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Cara Quinn]

Nickus,

Yes, I have used Apple TVs (from 2nd to 4th gen) for years now so I am used to 
them. I actually think the accessibility has been very good on them until TVOS 
11. I wish I never upgraded.

The issues with the remote have always been there for the Siri remote but the 
software / keyboard issues that I was mentioning are just in TVOS 11.X.

I wish I had something better to say about it but I don’t! :)

However, having said all this, I still use (or fight with) my Apple TV 4th gen 
every day. If you’ve never had one before, I still do think you will like 
having it. I do not know of any other set-top box which is more accessible, 
even given the shortcomings we’ve been talking about.

So enjoy! :)

Cheers!

Cara

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Nickus de Vos  wrote:

Cara, thanks for your detailed reply, it seams you have extensive experience 
using the Apple TV, all of it unfortunately not smooth saling it seams.

I guess in this case we as a community should pressure Apple more to get 
Voiceover support jacked up on the Apple TV. I guess since TV OS is quite new 
they can be somewhat excused, plus I’m sure they didn’t quite invission that 
blind people will use Apple TV so extensively.

Sounds to me that TV OS is currently where Mac OS was just a couple of years 
ago, with some major flaws in some areas when it comes to Voiceover.

Nickus
> On 13 Mar 2018, at 18:23, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
> 4th Gen.
> 
> In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
> accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.
> 
> There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.
> 
> The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
> disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
> that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
> triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to 
> leave the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.
> 
> I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
> have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both 
> remotes work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th 
> Gen with VO apparently.
> 
> secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
> absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
> using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
> this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad 
> on the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many 
> complaints from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go 
> and read reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every 
> single review is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. 
> This is actually the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.
> 
> Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
> suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility 
> team has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO 
> on the Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.
> 
> Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
> regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
> Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four 
> directions on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, 
> the arrows do not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot 
> move straight down on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a 
> huge problem in that it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to 
> go, but there are actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using 
> the keyboard. You actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard 
> and use the remote to move the cursor.
> 
> Now, if this were a design issue across the board for both sighted and blind 
> users, I would simply question Apple’s UX design choice. -However, this is 
> not across the board. This is purely an accessibility design issue. If you 
> turn off Voiceover, the bluetooth keyboard goes back to working as it always 
> has, with the arrow keys working normally.
> 
> If you then turn on Voiceover, the keyboard stops working as it should and 
> goes back to performing as I have been mentioning above.
> 
> So, instead of actually assisting blind users in having an easier and more 
> enjoyable experience with the Apple TV, now it is actually made worse and 
> more difficult in several situations.
> 
> I am curious to hear others’ experiences / opinions on these issues. Have you 
> seen them? What do you think?
> 
> Thanks so 

Re: Spam calls: how to stop the robots from calling your iPhone or Android, The Verge

[Marie Lyons]

What does that have to do with the providers free service for robo calls?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 12, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Jeff Berwick  wrote:
> 
> I think it refers to paying your bill at the end of your cycle “post” rather 
> than paying for it prior to your billing period “pre.”
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 5:54 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  From the online dictionary courtesy Google.
>> 
>>   (with reference to a letter or parcel) on which postage has already been 
>> paid.
>>   "use the postpaid envelope provided"
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 3/12/2018 2:37 PM, Marie Lyons wrote:
>>> post paid means?
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Tim,

In regard to the keyboard, I cannot even access the rotor. How are you doing it?

If I try to toggle quick nav on or off, nothing happens at all. So I have no 
rotor access from the keyboard.

How are you making this work?

Thanks bunches!

Cara

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On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:37 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,

A couple of items to bring forward here with respect to the Siri Remote and the 
Bluetooth keyboard operation.  First, for both devices, it is important to 
consider the rotor control.  When the rotor is set to certain items, navigation 
by both the remote and the Bluetooth keyboard is sometimes less than intuitive. 
 What I've found is that it is often advisable to change the rotor to a 
different item such as "Words", "Navigation" or "Explore".  Also, consider that 
Direct Touch can really make things difficult if you're not accustomed to it 
and will make things skip around if you're not careful.  Second, there are a 
few gestures such as swiping up with two fingers to repeat hits that you may 
find useful.  Yes, the touch-screen is rather small, but practice usually makes 
your life easier.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17, Eileen Scrivani > wrote:

Hi Kara,
 
I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.
 
I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and 
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.
 
Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.
 
Eileen
 
From: Cara Quinn <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries <>
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?
 
Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave 

Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Eileen,

Yes, the situation with the cursor flying is one that many sighted people keep 
bringing up again and again in reviews. So trust me, this is not you at all! :) 
This is a shortcoming of the interface.

There is a way to change the sensitivity of the touch pad in Settings though. 
Have you tried that?

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Cara

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Eileen Scrivani  wrote:

Hi Kara,
 
I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.
 
I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and 
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.
 
Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.
 
Eileen
 
From: Cara Quinn <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries <>
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?
 
Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.

Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four directions 
on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, the arrows do 
not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot move straight down 
on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a huge problem in that 
it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to go, but there are 
actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using the keyboard. You 
actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard and use the remote 
to move the cursor.

Now, if this were a design issue across the board for both sighted and blind 
users, I would simply question Apple’s UX design choice. -However, this is not 
across the board. This is purely an accessibility design issue. If you turn off 
Voiceover, the bluetooth keyboard goes back to working as it always 

Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Yeah, I've noticed that with Amazon Prime too.  It does make it challenging to 
navigate that app.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:44, Eileen Scrivani  wrote:

Tim,
 
Thank you. I’ll try using 2 fingers and see what the results/difference is. 
Funny you mention direct touch since every time I use the Amazon Prime app it 
tells me that it “requires” direct touch in order to work.
 
Eileen
 
From: Tim Kilburn <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:37 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <>
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?
 
Hi,
 
A couple of items to bring forward here with respect to the Siri Remote and the 
Bluetooth keyboard operation.  First, for both devices, it is important to 
consider the rotor control.  When the rotor is set to certain items, navigation 
by both the remote and the Bluetooth keyboard is sometimes less than intuitive. 
 What I've found is that it is often advisable to change the rotor to a 
different item such as "Words", "Navigation" or "Explore".  Also, consider that 
Direct Touch can really make things difficult if you're not accustomed to it 
and will make things skip around if you're not careful.  Second, there are a 
few gestures such as swiping up with two fingers to repeat hits that you may 
find useful.  Yes, the touch-screen is rather small, but practice usually makes 
your life easier.
 
Later...
 
 
Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17, Eileen Scrivani > wrote:
 
Hi Kara,
 
I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.
 
I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and  
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.
 
Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.
 
Eileen
 
From: Cara Quinn <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries <>
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?
 
Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of 

Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Eileen Scrivani]

Tim,

Thank you. I’ll try using 2 fingers and see what the results/difference is. 
Funny you mention direct touch since every time I use the Amazon Prime app it 
tells me that it “requires” direct touch in order to work. 

Eileen

From: Tim Kilburn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:37 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Hi, 

A couple of items to bring forward here with respect to the Siri Remote and the 
Bluetooth keyboard operation.  First, for both devices, it is important to 
consider the rotor control.  When the rotor is set to certain items, navigation 
by both the remote and the Bluetooth keyboard is sometimes less than intuitive. 
 What I've found is that it is often advisable to change the rotor to a 
different item such as "Words", "Navigation" or "Explore".  Also, consider that 
Direct Touch can really make things difficult if you're not accustomed to it 
and will make things skip around if you're not careful.  Second, there are a 
few gestures such as swiping up with two fingers to repeat hits that you may 
find useful.  Yes, the touch-screen is rather small, but practice usually makes 
your life easier.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17, Eileen Scrivani  wrote:

Hi Kara,

I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.

I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and 
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.

Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.

Eileen

From: Cara Quinn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.

Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 

Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

A couple of items to bring forward here with respect to the Siri Remote and the 
Bluetooth keyboard operation.  First, for both devices, it is important to 
consider the rotor control.  When the rotor is set to certain items, navigation 
by both the remote and the Bluetooth keyboard is sometimes less than intuitive. 
 What I've found is that it is often advisable to change the rotor to a 
different item such as "Words", "Navigation" or "Explore".  Also, consider that 
Direct Touch can really make things difficult if you're not accustomed to it 
and will make things skip around if you're not careful.  Second, there are a 
few gestures such as swiping up with two fingers to repeat hits that you may 
find useful.  Yes, the touch-screen is rather small, but practice usually makes 
your life easier.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17, Eileen Scrivani  wrote:

Hi Kara,
 
I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.
 
I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and  
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.
 
Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.
 
Eileen
 
From: Cara Quinn <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries <>
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?
 
Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.

Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four directions 
on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, the arrows do 
not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot move straight down 
on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a huge problem in that 
it is not only more cumbersome to get where you 

Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[E.T.]

Jonathan,
   That cracked me up. I like that kind of accessibility.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 3/13/2018 8:41 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:

I find accessibility on my fourth generation Apple TV to be fantastic. I say I 
want to watch season one of SVU and my wife hits a few buttons and it starts 
playing, and sometimes there is even Audio Description.

In all honesty, I have managed the Apple TV a few times myself the hardest part 
has always been changing the inputs on my stupid TV that does not pay attention 
to the HTMI signal to turn on like Samsung TV’s do. The touch pad is a little 
confusing, but I generally don’t need to use that and the applications that 
integrate with the “TV” app make watching series from those providers very 
easy. I can hit the “home/tv” button once to bring up the TV app, and then can 
find that series and click play.

Almost all of the NetFlick original content is Audio Described and that has 
been a great boon.
Best Wishes,

Jonathan



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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Nickus de Vos]

Cara, thanks for your detailed reply, it seams you have extensive experience 
using the Apple TV, all of it unfortunately not smooth saling it seams.

I guess in this case we as a community should pressure Apple more to get 
Voiceover support jacked up on the Apple TV. I guess since TV OS is quite new 
they can be somewhat excused, plus I’m sure they didn’t quite invission that 
blind people will use Apple TV so extensively.

Sounds to me that TV OS is currently where Mac OS was just a couple of years 
ago, with some major flaws in some areas when it comes to Voiceover.

Nickus
> On 13 Mar 2018, at 18:23, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
> 4th Gen.
> 
> In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
> accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.
> 
> There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.
> 
> The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
> disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
> that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
> triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to 
> leave the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.
> 
> I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
> have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both 
> remotes work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th 
> Gen with VO apparently.
> 
> secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
> absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
> using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
> this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad 
> on the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many 
> complaints from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go 
> and read reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every 
> single review is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. 
> This is actually the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.
> 
> Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
> suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility 
> team has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO 
> on the Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.
> 
> Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
> regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
> Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four 
> directions on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, 
> the arrows do not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot 
> move straight down on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a 
> huge problem in that it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to 
> go, but there are actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using 
> the keyboard. You actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard 
> and use the remote to move the cursor.
> 
> Now, if this were a design issue across the board for both sighted and blind 
> users, I would simply question Apple’s UX design choice. -However, this is 
> not across the board. This is purely an accessibility design issue. If you 
> turn off Voiceover, the bluetooth keyboard goes back to working as it always 
> has, with the arrow keys working normally.
> 
> If you then turn on Voiceover, the keyboard stops working as it should and 
> goes back to performing as I have been mentioning above.
> 
> So, instead of actually assisting blind users in having an easier and more 
> enjoyable experience with the Apple TV, now it is actually made worse and 
> more difficult in several situations.
> 
> I am curious to hear others’ experiences / opinions on these issues. Have you 
> seen them? What do you think?
> 
> Thanks so much and hope you have a great day!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Cara
> ---
> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
> is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
> third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
> was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very 
> definition of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to 
> the fourth GEN and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, 
> 

Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Eileen Scrivani]

Hi Kara,

I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.

I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and 
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.

Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.

Eileen

From: Cara Quinn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.

Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four directions 
on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, the arrows do 
not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot move straight down 
on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a huge problem in that 
it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to go, but there are 
actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using the keyboard. You 
actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard and use the remote 
to move the cursor.

Now, if this were a design issue across the board for both sighted and blind 
users, I would simply question Apple’s UX design choice. -However, this is not 
across the board. This is purely an accessibility design issue. If you turn off 
Voiceover, the bluetooth keyboard goes back to working as it always has, with 
the arrow keys working normally.

If you then turn on Voiceover, the keyboard stops working as it should and goes 
back to performing as I have been mentioning above.

So, instead of actually assisting blind users in having an easier and more 
enjoyable experience with the Apple TV, now it is actually made worse and more 
difficult in several situations.

I am curious to hear others’ experiences / opinions on these issues. 

Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Eileen Scrivani]

Hi,

By any chance, did you backup your previous phone before getting rid of it? You 
can do a restore from the backup to the IPhone 10. It sounds like you’ve 
already set the new phone up, but I know that when I did the setup on mine, 
there is a point during setup where if you just hold the old phone next to the 
new phone it copies over all or at least most of your settings. Of course this 
requires that you still have the older phone.

Good luck.

Eileen


From: Krister Ekstrom 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:56 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: I have stepped into the future and have a question

Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and now i 
wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having to start 
from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my apps, favorites 
and contacts and so on back.
I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the life 
of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my iPhone 7 
plus. Can someone please help?
Thanks,
/Krister

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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Cara Quinn]

Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.

Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four directions 
on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, the arrows do 
not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot move straight down 
on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a huge problem in that 
it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to go, but there are 
actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using the keyboard. You 
actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard and use the remote 
to move the cursor.

Now, if this were a design issue across the board for both sighted and blind 
users, I would simply question Apple’s UX design choice. -However, this is not 
across the board. This is purely an accessibility design issue. If you turn off 
Voiceover, the bluetooth keyboard goes back to working as it always has, with 
the arrow keys working normally.

If you then turn on Voiceover, the keyboard stops working as it should and goes 
back to performing as I have been mentioning above.

So, instead of actually assisting blind users in having an easier and more 
enjoyable experience with the Apple TV, now it is actually made worse and more 
difficult in several situations.

I am curious to hear others’ experiences / opinions on these issues. Have you 
seen them? What do you think?

Thanks so much and hope you have a great day!

Cheers!

Cara
---
iOS design and development - LookTel.com
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn

Follow me on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/ModelCara

On Mar 13, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Phil Halton  wrote:

I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very definition 
of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to the fourth GEN 
and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, it’s kind of clunky 
in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its advantages especially with the 
Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I 
just had to chime in because you really blew my mind with that statement.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>  I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I can 
> access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
> short.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, 

Re: Further Amadeus questions

[Matthew Dierckens]

Hi Christine,
If your microphone has a mute switch make sure it is not turned on.

God bless.
Matthew Dierckens
Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
Macintosh, IOS  and Windows Trainer
JAWS for windows Certified - 2016
Canadian Phone: 519-962-9140
U.S. phone: 573-401-1018
Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:08, Brandon A. Olivares  
> wrote:
> 
> No reason it shouldn't be possible, does it work if you use something like 
> QuickTime to record?
> 
> Sometimes I find that if I change input sources, I have to unselect and then 
> reselect the one I want before it really takes hold. Or just restart the 
> application and it should work.
> 
> Obviously check input volume and all that in sound preferences.
> 
> Brandon
> 
>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Kristeen Hughes > > wrote:
>> 
>> I am trying to record a file using the microphone on my Logatech, bluetooth 
>> headset. There is no sound when I do this. It lists the headset as the input 
>> source. What else am I missing, or is this not possible?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Kristeen
>> 
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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Nickus de Vos]

So I decided to go for it I purchased the Apple tv and should get it within the 
next day or so.

Nickus
Sent from my iPhone, please excuse any typos...

> On 13 Mar 2018, at 17:41, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I find accessibility on my fourth generation Apple TV to be fantastic. I say 
> I want to watch season one of SVU and my wife hits a few buttons and it 
> starts playing, and sometimes there is even Audio Description.
> 
> In all honesty, I have managed the Apple TV a few times myself the hardest 
> part has always been changing the inputs on my stupid TV that does not pay 
> attention to the HTMI signal to turn on like Samsung TV’s do. The touch pad 
> is a little confusing, but I generally don’t need to use that and the 
> applications that integrate with the “TV” app make watching series from those 
> providers very easy. I can hit the “home/tv” button once to bring up the TV 
> app, and then can find that series and click play. 
> 
> Almost all of the NetFlick original content is Audio Described and that has 
> been a great boon. 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Jonathan  
> 
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Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Krister Ekstrom]

That would’ve been wonderful if i could do that, but the old phone was changed 
for the new one on my phone providers store, and it all went so fast that i 
didn’t get the time to tell them to restore my old data again, oh well, i guess 
i will have to do the reset thing.
Thanks so much.
/Krister


> 13 mars 2018 kl. 16:33 skrev Donna Goodin :
> 
> I know you said you didn’t want to start over, but the easiest thing might be 
> to do that. Just place your new phone next to your old one and initiate set 
> up. And your data will be copied over onto the new phone.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I use iCloud backup but i can’t see anything to restore from even though 
>> there should be things to restore. Could you please remind me where to go?
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 13 mars 2018 kl. 16:00 skrev E.T. :
>>> 
>>> If you use iCloud Backup you can restore from it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 3/13/2018 7:56 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
 Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and 
 now i wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without 
 having to start from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I 
 want my apps, favorites and contacts and so on back.
 I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the 
 life of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my 
 iPhone 7 plus. Can someone please help?
 Thanks,
 /Krister
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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The 

Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Jonathan Cohn]

I find accessibility on my fourth generation Apple TV to be fantastic. I say I 
want to watch season one of SVU and my wife hits a few buttons and it starts 
playing, and sometimes there is even Audio Description.

In all honesty, I have managed the Apple TV a few times myself the hardest part 
has always been changing the inputs on my stupid TV that does not pay attention 
to the HTMI signal to turn on like Samsung TV’s do. The touch pad is a little 
confusing, but I generally don’t need to use that and the applications that 
integrate with the “TV” app make watching series from those providers very 
easy. I can hit the “home/tv” button once to bring up the TV app, and then can 
find that series and click play. 

Almost all of the NetFlick original content is Audio Described and that has 
been a great boon. 
Best Wishes,

Jonathan  

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Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

The restore question should have came up when you first turned on the iPhone X. 
 If you missed it and set it up as a new device instead, or if it had already 
been set up for you without "Restoring from Backup", then you'll need to reset 
your device so that this process can occur.  To accomplish this, go into 
Settings, General and down near the bottom you'll find Reset.  Double-tap on 
the Reset then Reset All Settings.  Follow the prompts and the iPhone will do 
some things, restart itself and come up to the Setup screen.  You'll need to 
complete the first few steps, including entering your WiFi network.  When it 
asks about setting up the iPhone as a new device or restoring from backup, 
choose the latter and follow the prompts.  You'll be asked for your Apple ID 
and such and then you can choose the latest backup.  Everything should be good 
after that.  It just may take a while to complete.

Later...



Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 13, 2018, at 09:28, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:

I use iCloud backup but i can’t see anything to restore from even though there 
should be things to restore. Could you please remind me where to go?
/Krister


> 13 mars 2018 kl. 16:00 skrev E.T. :
> 
>  If you use iCloud Backup you can restore from it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 3/13/2018 7:56 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>> Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and 
>> now i wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having 
>> to start from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my 
>> apps, favorites and contacts and so on back.
>> I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the 
>> life of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my 
>> iPhone 7 plus. Can someone please help?
>> Thanks,
>> /Krister
> 
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Visit this 

Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Donna Goodin]

I know you said you didn’t want to start over, but the easiest thing might be 
to do that. Just place your new phone next to your old one and initiate set up. 
And your data will be copied over onto the new phone.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> I use iCloud backup but i can’t see anything to restore from even though 
> there should be things to restore. Could you please remind me where to go?
> /Krister
> 
> 
>> 13 mars 2018 kl. 16:00 skrev E.T. :
>> 
>>  If you use iCloud Backup you can restore from it.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 3/13/2018 7:56 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>>> Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and 
>>> now i wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having 
>>> to start from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my 
>>> apps, favorites and contacts and so on back.
>>> I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the 
>>> life of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my 
>>> iPhone 7 plus. Can someone please help?
>>> Thanks,
>>> /Krister
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Krister Ekstrom]

I use iCloud backup but i can’t see anything to restore from even though there 
should be things to restore. Could you please remind me where to go?
/Krister


> 13 mars 2018 kl. 16:00 skrev E.T. :
> 
>   If you use iCloud Backup you can restore from it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 3/13/2018 7:56 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>> Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and 
>> now i wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having 
>> to start from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my 
>> apps, favorites and contacts and so on back.
>> I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the 
>> life of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my 
>> iPhone 7 plus. Can someone please help?
>> Thanks,
>> /Krister
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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RE: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Sarai Bucciarelli]

The 4th gen is accessible. I have one, and use it everyday.

Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of CHUCK REICHEL
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:13 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Hi ET!
Until you actually own a product you don't know what its really like.
I hear this all the time when engineers try too say what a Bill Bradley 
modified Neumann u87 microphone sounds like.
I use the Neumann u87  every day in my recording studio and  have first hand 
knowledge what the real story is! :)
I can discern "Fake News" because i know the genuine!!!
As for "POTUS" respect the office and Pray for peace!
Talk soon
Chuck


"God does not play dice with the universe"
"Albert Einstein’


On Mar 13, 2018, at 10:53 AM, E.T. wrote:

> Phil,
>   Please do not add legitimacy to the clown in the big white house and his 
> "fake news". (smile)
> 
>   You do understand. I've not seen any serious complaints about the 4th gen's 
> accessibility except with regard to some third party apps. I would be happy 
> to relieve you of your 4th and you can go back to your 3rd.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 3/13/2018 6:53 AM, Phil Halton wrote:
>> I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth 
>> GEN is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have 
>> the third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s 
>> accessibility was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the 
>> very definition of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN 
>> to the fourth GEN and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, 
>> it’s kind of clunky in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its 
>> advantages especially with the Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third 
>> GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I just had to chime in because you really 
>> blew my mind with that statement.
>> Sent from my IPhone
>>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I 
>>> can access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
>>> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
>>> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
>>> short.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
 Hi all
 I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is 
 selling his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
 I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you 
 blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
 Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming 
 services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
 Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
 Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
 Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for 
 the rest of the family?
 Nickus
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi ET!
Until you actually own a product you don't know what its really like.
I hear this all the time when engineers try too say what a Bill Bradley 
modified Neumann u87 microphone sounds like.
I use the Neumann u87  every day in my recording studio and  have first hand 
knowledge what the real story is! :)
I can discern "Fake News" because i know the genuine!!!
As for "POTUS" respect the office and Pray for peace!
Talk soon
Chuck


"God does not play dice with the universe"
"Albert Einstein’


On Mar 13, 2018, at 10:53 AM, E.T. wrote:

> Phil,
>   Please do not add legitimacy to the clown in the big white house and his 
> "fake news". (smile)
> 
>   You do understand. I've not seen any serious complaints about the 4th gen's 
> accessibility except with regard to some third party apps. I would be happy 
> to relieve you of your 4th and you can go back to your 3rd.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 3/13/2018 6:53 AM, Phil Halton wrote:
>> I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth 
>> GEN is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have 
>> the third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s 
>> accessibility was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the 
>> very definition of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN 
>> to the fourth GEN and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, 
>> it’s kind of clunky in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its 
>> advantages especially with the Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third 
>> GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I just had to chime in because you really 
>> blew my mind with that statement.
>> Sent from my IPhone
>>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I 
>>> can access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
>>> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
>>> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
>>> short.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
 Hi all
 I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is 
 selling his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
 I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you 
 blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
 Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming 
 services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
 Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
 Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
 Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for 
 the rest of the family?
 Nickus
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Further Amadeus questions

[Brandon A. Olivares]

No reason it shouldn't be possible, does it work if you use something like 
QuickTime to record?

Sometimes I find that if I change input sources, I have to unselect and then 
reselect the one I want before it really takes hold. Or just restart the 
application and it should work.

Obviously check input volume and all that in sound preferences.

Brandon

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
> 
> I am trying to record a file using the microphone on my Logatech, bluetooth 
> headset. There is no sound when I do this. It lists the headset as the input 
> source. What else am I missing, or is this not possible?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kristeen
> 
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Further Amadeus questions

[Kristeen Hughes]

I am trying to record a file using the microphone on my Logatech, bluetooth 
headset. There is no sound when I do this. It lists the headset as the input 
source. What else am I missing, or is this not possible?

Thanks.

Kristeen

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Re: I have stepped into the future and have a question

[E.T.]

   If you use iCloud Backup you can restore from it.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 3/13/2018 7:56 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and now i 
wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having to start 
from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my apps, favorites 
and contacts and so on back.
I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the life 
of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my iPhone 7 
plus. Can someone please help?
Thanks,
/Krister



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I have stepped into the future and have a question

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi i’ve got an iPhone X that i purchased today. I have just set it up and now i 
wonder, is there a way to get all my old settings back without having to start 
from the beginning again with setting up the iPhone? I want my apps, favorites 
and contacts and so on back.
I know this is a typical ”i should know this” question but i can for the life 
of me not remember how to get things back to the way it was on my iPhone 7 
plus. Can someone please help?
Thanks,
/Krister

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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[E.T.]

Phil,
   Please do not add legitimacy to the clown in the big white house and 
his "fake news". (smile)


   You do understand. I've not seen any serious complaints about the 
4th gen's accessibility except with regard to some third party apps. I 
would be happy to relieve you of your 4th and you can go back to your 3rd.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 3/13/2018 6:53 AM, Phil Halton wrote:

I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very definition 
of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to the fourth GEN 
and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, it’s kind of clunky 
in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its advantages especially with the 
Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I 
just had to chime in because you really blew my mind with that statement.

Sent from my IPhone



On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:

   I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I can 
access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. Sometimes 
I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use even more of 
it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall short.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
Hi all
I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is selling 
his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you blind 
voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming services 
like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for the 
rest of the family?
Nickus


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RE: My Experiences with Directv Now

[Sarai Bucciarelli]

I wish I'd done this years ago. Don't have Hulu, just DirectvNow and Netflix. I 
wish DIY, and the cooking channel were apart of the cheaper bundle, but I'd 
have to go to the $60 a month plan for just adding those channels. *sigh* Can't 
justify that. 


Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Kliphton Miller
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:51 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: My Experiences with Directv Now

I agree, with Netflix, Hulu, and direct TVNow I am still paying less and 
getting more then I would with cable tv, I dumped cable tv 8 years ago, and 
don’t regret it.

> On Mar 12, 2018, at 10:04 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> I personally think cable companies do great at ripping you off. So if
> I can avoid it I shall. I would rather use netflix and a couple of
> these cheaper options
> 
> On 3/12/18, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> Xfinity is essentially the new name for the old Comcast Corporation. It’s a
>> huge conglomerate
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 10:00 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Haven’t heard of Xfinity. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
>>> Behalf Of david.tanner...@gmail.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 7:10 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: My Experiences with Directv Now
>>> 
>>> In case you haven’t tried it yet, the Xfinity Stream TV app for both
>>> Android and iOS are both excellent, very accessible, and do have
>>> descriptive video  that works very well, and is very easy to setup in the
>>> app.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
>>> Behalf Of Sarai Bucciarelli
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:53 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: My Experiences with Directv Now
>>> 
>>> We don’t have Comcast downl here. So far, I’m happy with Directv Now. I’ll
>>> let everyone know what I think of the others as I try them.
>>> 
>>> Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
>>> Behalf Of Phil Halton
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:31 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: My Experiences with Directv Now
>>> 
>>> Well, I gave up on the cord cutting and went with Comcast voice guidance.
>>> They have a voice guidance system, much like a screen reader, that works
>>> great and allows me to do everything I need to do. Yes, I’m paying the
>>> price for it, but good things are worth paying for. Good luck with sling
>>> and all the other services, maybe one day I’ll join you.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my IPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 10, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all:
>>> I’ve had Directv Now for about two weeks. The service is 90% usable.
>>> You will want to use it on an Apple TV with the remote set to direct
>>> touch. While playing a show, you can swipe across the remote to channel
>>> surf. You can search for content. You can view all networks via the guide.
>>> It is easy to mark and unmark channels as favorites, as well as to view
>>> only favorite channels.
>>> With the iOS app, you can search for content. You can add shows to watch
>>> list. You cannot view network list, even in the guide. You cannot add
>>> channels to favorites. I have the $35 a month plan, with promotional price
>>> for $10 a month. They also have free Apple tv promotion for prepaying for
>>> service. I plan on trying the others as a free trial and then deciding
>>> which I want to keep.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I imagine that ET was simply using an educated guess.  There's been lots of 
posts over the past years to do with the 4th Gen Apple TV that one could 
responsibly make an educated guess.  Now, I find the accessibility just fine of 
the Apple TV 4.  Slightly different than the earlier versions, but totally 
fine, but each do have their own experiences which mold their opinions.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Mar 13, 2018, at 07:53, Phil Halton  wrote:

I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very definition 
of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to the fourth GEN 
and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, it’s kind of clunky 
in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its advantages especially with the 
Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I 
just had to chime in because you really blew my mind with that statement.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>  I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I can 
> access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
> short.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
>> Hi all
>> I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is selling 
>> his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
>> I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you 
>> blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
>> Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming 
>> services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
>> Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
>> Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
>> Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for the 
>> rest of the family?
>> Nickus
> 
> -- 
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Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

[Phil Halton]

I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very definition 
of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to the fourth GEN 
and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, it’s kind of clunky 
in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its advantages especially with the 
Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I 
just had to chime in because you really blew my mind with that statement.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I can 
> access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
> short.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
>> Hi all
>> I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is selling 
>> his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
>> I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you 
>> blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
>> Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming 
>> services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
>> Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
>> Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
>> Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for the 
>> rest of the family?
>> Nickus
> 
> -- 
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Re: My Experiences with Directv Now

[Kliphton Miller]

I agree, with Netflix, Hulu, and direct TVNow I am still paying less and 
getting more then I would with cable tv, I dumped cable tv 8 years ago, and 
don’t regret it.

> On Mar 12, 2018, at 10:04 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> I personally think cable companies do great at ripping you off. So if
> I can avoid it I shall. I would rather use netflix and a couple of
> these cheaper options
> 
> On 3/12/18, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> Xfinity is essentially the new name for the old Comcast Corporation. It’s a
>> huge conglomerate
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 10:00 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Haven’t heard of Xfinity. Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
>>> Behalf Of david.tanner...@gmail.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 7:10 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: My Experiences with Directv Now
>>> 
>>> In case you haven’t tried it yet, the Xfinity Stream TV app for both
>>> Android and iOS are both excellent, very accessible, and do have
>>> descriptive video  that works very well, and is very easy to setup in the
>>> app.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
>>> Behalf Of Sarai Bucciarelli
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:53 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: My Experiences with Directv Now
>>> 
>>> We don’t have Comcast downl here. So far, I’m happy with Directv Now. I’ll
>>> let everyone know what I think of the others as I try them.
>>> 
>>> Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
>>> Behalf Of Phil Halton
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:31 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: My Experiences with Directv Now
>>> 
>>> Well, I gave up on the cord cutting and went with Comcast voice guidance.
>>> They have a voice guidance system, much like a screen reader, that works
>>> great and allows me to do everything I need to do. Yes, I’m paying the
>>> price for it, but good things are worth paying for. Good luck with sling
>>> and all the other services, maybe one day I’ll join you.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my IPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 10, 2018, at 9:46 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all:
>>> I’ve had Directv Now for about two weeks. The service is 90% usable.
>>> You will want to use it on an Apple TV with the remote set to direct
>>> touch. While playing a show, you can swipe across the remote to channel
>>> surf. You can search for content. You can view all networks via the guide.
>>> It is easy to mark and unmark channels as favorites, as well as to view
>>> only favorite channels.
>>> With the iOS app, you can search for content. You can add shows to watch
>>> list. You cannot view network list, even in the guide. You cannot add
>>> channels to favorites. I have the $35 a month plan, with promotional price
>>> for $10 a month. They also have free Apple tv promotion for prepaying for
>>> service. I plan on trying the others as a free trial and then deciding
>>> which I want to keep.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sarai D Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:
>>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>>> 

Re: a lot of issues having up calls with facetime

[Jonathan Cohn]

Wow! I learned a new VO gesture from this. That will be much nicer than window 
chooser.


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Mar 12, 2018, at 11:15 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> OK.  I can confirm what you are explaining.  As long as you allow FaceTime to 
> remain as the app with primary focus, then the buttons with the "End Call" 
> and such remain visible and accessible.  As soon as you go out of FaceTime 
> and try to return to the app with cmd-tab or some other method, those buttons 
> are gone and you're unable to manipulate the current call.  What is happening 
> here is that the dialog that you originally see is not actually part of 
> FaceTime, but a notification and thus part of the Notification Centre.  Use 
> the VoiceOver command VO-n to check for notifications, then just press 
> return, and you should be brought back to that dialog with the End Call and 
> Mute options.  If all you wish to do is end the call, just press cmd-q while 
> in FaceTime and the call will be terminated.  That's less keystrokes than the 
> first method.  Also, note that if a second call were to come in while you're 
> on the first, Notification Centre would again gain focus and you'd be 
> presented with the "Hold & Accept" or "Decline" options, otherwise, in the 
> case where you just have a single call, the methods I outlined first should 
> do the trick for you.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Mar 11, 2018, at 11:02, aliFaisal  wrote:
> 
> Hi tim,
> This is happening before the call has been terminated. When I am in a call, 
> the call window with the duration, hold, mute etc just disappears.
> 
>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 12:40 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Usually, when the announcement of "FaceTime has no windows" happens, that 
>> tells you that the call has already been terminated from the FaceTime point 
>> of view.  If you don't want FaceTime on in the foreground, just press cmd-q 
>> to quit it.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 10:27, aliFaisal  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there,
>> When ever I want to end a FaceTime call on my mac, I don’t see the hang or 
>> end button. All it says is, FaceTime has no windows when ever I command tab 
>> to it and swipe around looking for the end button. This is on the latest 
>> build of high Siera.
>> does anyone have any way to locating the call controls so I can end calls?
>> 
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RE: Spam calls: how to stop the robots from calling your iPhone or Android, The Verge

[Simon Fogarty]

With regard to mobile phones,
Post paid is a paid monthly account,

 In my case I pay per month for my plan and as I've paid in advance for a month 
it's post paid for a month to come.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 10:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Spam calls: how to stop the robots from calling your iPhone or 
Android, The Verge

From the online dictionary courtesy Google.

 (with reference to a letter or parcel) on which postage has already been 
paid.
 "use the postpaid envelope provided"

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 3/12/2018 2:37 PM, Marie Lyons wrote:
> post paid means?

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