RE: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver

[Dave Taylor]

n't happen for awhile. With that being said, let's look at some of Pages
notable features: numerous preloaded templates, the ability to create custom
templates, easy insertion of headers and footers, styles, track changes,
mail merge, footnotes, endnotes, bookmarks, tables, charts, and formulas.
And Pages has the ability to  export not only to word documents but epub,
rtf, PDF, and html. You can't save as .docx yet, which is a pity, but you
can open .docx files just fine.
> 
> I'm not saying all this to suggest that everyone immediately love Pages.
We can all agree it lacks some features which word has. Honestly, my first
instinct is to fire up Word when I'm doing some intense document writing and
editing. And I'm a hard core Mac girl. For my every day writing, I use Text
Edit, and I love it. I call it WOrdpad on steroids because Wordpad doesn't
have a spellchecker, the ability to save to PDF, or the ability to implement
basic styles. At any rate, what I am suggesting is that we as Mac users
(those of us with Pages at least) step back and say, okay, Pages isn't word.
But what can it offer me? Is there some word processing I could be doing in
Pages which I previously only did in Word? And if we don't know the answer,
why not try creating that document in Pages when we're not on a time crunch?
We might just surprise ourselves. In an effort to remain objective, I will
also take the opportunity to include this link in my post. It is to Pages
reviews on macupdate.com.
> 
> http://www.macupdate.com/reviews.php?id=17494
> On Sep 27, 2010, at 5:51 AM, ISAAC OBIE wrote:
> 
>> Hi Kawal,
>> Frankly, I don't like programs like MS Word because it's too big for what
I want to do. It's huge, clumsy and plain a pain in the posterior. I love
notepad! I think Notepad can do all I want including cleaning up a file.
>> Now when I really get in to the Mac I think Text edit might do the trick.
I honestly don't know yet. Maybe Esther's "Simplenote" might do it. I'll
have to explore that at some point.
>> Isaac
>> - Original Message - From: "Kawal Gucukoglu"

>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 4:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver
>> 
>> 
>>> I too will be switching to I works rather than working with Microsoft
Products in the future.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> 
>>> On 27 Sep 2010, at 12:53 AM, gkearney  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It is interesting to note that the ribbons were accessible, much of
>>>> the user interface is as well. It is the main content areas that are
>>>> not accessible.
>>>> 
>>>> Greg
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 27, 6:16 am, "Dave Taylor"  wrote:
>>>>> I bet that if they tried, they would soon realise that the ribbons
would be
>>>>> difficult if not impossible to implement with VO anyway. As it is,
their
>>>>> insistence on these awful things is one of my key drivers for making
the
>>>>> switch, though there are many others too. Mike, the podcast where you
>>>>> install Snow Leopard is as good a demonstration as anything of how far
>>>>> things have come on the Mac side, I'm afraid it is the opposite story,
>>>>> almost the reverse story, on the windows side!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 11:03 PM
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't think he said it was a beta. It is very disappointing indeed,
>>>>> really, Microsoft has no excuse for this one, it's not like they were
not
>>>>> aware of accessibility and voice over, they just chose not to do
anything
>>>>> with it. Apple has created a built in screen reader and provided the
APIs to
>>>>> make programs accessible, Microsoft has definitely shown their
interest in
>>>>> this. At least on the mac, there are alternatives that will handle
Microsoft
>>>>> Office files, namely iwork and open office.
>>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:18 PM, M. Taylor wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello Greg,
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you so much for providi

RE: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver

[Dave Taylor]

As I hoped, excellent. I've been saving messages from these lists for months
now in anticipation of what should be this day now. 

Thanks
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:52 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver

Text edit will certainly handle the word processor side of things, and open
office should handle the spreadsheet.
On Sep 27, 2010, at 5:22 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> All I will need to do is basic text editing, reading of word documents and
> some fairly basic spreadsheet work. I'm hoping that Text Edit and Open
> Office will get me through that!
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:18 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver
> 
> but how good is OpenOffice really? When i tested it i found a couple show
> stoppers. You couldn't do a say all command, because VO or if it is OOO
> itself presents every paragraph in a document as a separate edit box. Also
> you couldn't select using vo commands and you couldn't select whole blocks
> of text because you couldn't select line by line, which makes it hard when
> selecting long pieces of text.
> /Krister
> 27 sep 2010 kl. 00.02 skrev Mike Arrigo:
> 
>> I don't think he said it was a beta. It is very disappointing indeed,
> really, Microsoft has no excuse for this one, it's not like they were not
> aware of accessibility and voice over, they just chose not to do anything
> with it. Apple has created a built in screen reader and provided the APIs
to
> make programs accessible, Microsoft has definitely shown their interest in
> this. At least on the mac, there are alternatives that will handle
Microsoft
> Office files, namely iwork and open office.
>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:18 PM, M. Taylor wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Greg,
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much for providing this info.
>>> 
>>> I cannot begin to relay how sad and disappointed I am at the news of
>>> Microsoft's Office 2011 VoiceOver inaccessibility.  
>>> 
>>> Wow!
>>> 
>>> You know, when I installed the very first beta of Windows 7, it was
>>> completely accessible.  That is to say, as soon as one launched the
>>> installation program for Windows 7, a very clear voice prompt asked if
> audio
>>> assistance was required.  This came as a total surprise to me, to say
the
>>> least.  I answered in the affirmative and was able to install Windows 7
>>> without any sighted assistance, whatsoever.  I installed that first beta
> on
>>> three of my computers.  By the way, the voice that was used to guide me
>>> through the setup was not that of Narrator--it was much clearer.
>>> 
>>> Astonishingly, with the release of the next beta of Windows 7, this
> feature
>>> was removed.  I was shocked, disappointed, and angry, to say the least.

>>> 
>>> It was then that I began considering purchasing a Macintosh.  
>>> 
>>> It's been much too long to recall how I came to learn Microsoft's reason
> for
>>> removing this feature but they said they removed it for security
> concerns;
>>> to which I exclaim, "TommyRot!"  Or, to put it in the vernacular,
>>> "That's a load of crap"
>>> 
>>> Greg, is it possible that the final release of Office 2011 will be
> VoiceOver
>>> accessible?  I mean, you reviewed a beta, did you not?  Perhaps I'm just
>>> grasping at straws, eh?  (Smile) 
>>> 
>>> Thanks again for giving us a proverbial "heads-up" on this one.
>>> 
>>> Most Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> mark
>>> -
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:22 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; macvoiceo...@freelists.org; Mary
> Beth
>>> Janes; Mike Shebanek
>>> Subject: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver
>>> 
>>> It is my sad duty to report that after getting a chance to test
Microsoft
>>> Office 2011 for Mac that it is no more accessible in this version than
in
>>> any of the previous versions. As in the past it is imposs

RE: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver

[Dave Taylor]

All I will need to do is basic text editing, reading of word documents and
some fairly basic spreadsheet work. I'm hoping that Text Edit and Open
Office will get me through that!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver

but how good is OpenOffice really? When i tested it i found a couple show
stoppers. You couldn't do a say all command, because VO or if it is OOO
itself presents every paragraph in a document as a separate edit box. Also
you couldn't select using vo commands and you couldn't select whole blocks
of text because you couldn't select line by line, which makes it hard when
selecting long pieces of text.
/Krister
27 sep 2010 kl. 00.02 skrev Mike Arrigo:

> I don't think he said it was a beta. It is very disappointing indeed,
really, Microsoft has no excuse for this one, it's not like they were not
aware of accessibility and voice over, they just chose not to do anything
with it. Apple has created a built in screen reader and provided the APIs to
make programs accessible, Microsoft has definitely shown their interest in
this. At least on the mac, there are alternatives that will handle Microsoft
Office files, namely iwork and open office.
> On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:18 PM, M. Taylor wrote:
> 
>> Hello Greg,
>> 
>> Thank you so much for providing this info.
>> 
>> I cannot begin to relay how sad and disappointed I am at the news of
>> Microsoft's Office 2011 VoiceOver inaccessibility.  
>> 
>> Wow!
>> 
>> You know, when I installed the very first beta of Windows 7, it was
>> completely accessible.  That is to say, as soon as one launched the
>> installation program for Windows 7, a very clear voice prompt asked if
audio
>> assistance was required.  This came as a total surprise to me, to say the
>> least.  I answered in the affirmative and was able to install Windows 7
>> without any sighted assistance, whatsoever.  I installed that first beta
on
>> three of my computers.  By the way, the voice that was used to guide me
>> through the setup was not that of Narrator--it was much clearer.
>> 
>> Astonishingly, with the release of the next beta of Windows 7, this
feature
>> was removed.  I was shocked, disappointed, and angry, to say the least.  
>> 
>> It was then that I began considering purchasing a Macintosh.  
>> 
>> It's been much too long to recall how I came to learn Microsoft's reason
for
>> removing this feature but they said they removed it for security
concerns;
>> to which I exclaim, "TommyRot!"  Or, to put it in the vernacular,
>> "That's a load of crap"
>> 
>> Greg, is it possible that the final release of Office 2011 will be
VoiceOver
>> accessible?  I mean, you reviewed a beta, did you not?  Perhaps I'm just
>> grasping at straws, eh?  (Smile) 
>> 
>> Thanks again for giving us a proverbial "heads-up" on this one.
>> 
>> Most Sincerely,
>> 
>> mark
>> -
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney
>> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:22 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; macvoiceo...@freelists.org; Mary
Beth
>> Janes; Mike Shebanek
>> Subject: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver
>> 
>> It is my sad duty to report that after getting a chance to test Microsoft
>> Office 2011 for Mac that it is no more accessible in this version than in
>> any of the previous versions. As in the past it is impossible to interact
>> with any of the content areas of the program. You are not able to review,
>> read or edit the text area in Word or Excel.
>> 
>> It should not be clear to all that Microsoft has no intention of ever
fixing
>> these issues. I communicated directly with Microsoft over the same
failing
>> in Office 2008. The fact that after a complete rewire of the programs
they
>> remain inaccessible to the built in screen reader of the OS to me speak
>> volumes about Microsoft's total lack of commitment to accessibility on
the
>> Macintosh platform and may well speak to Microsoft's general commitment
to
>> the platform as well.
>> 
>> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
>> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
>> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA
6100
>> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
>> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
>> Email: greg.kear...@guidedogswa.com.au
>> Email: gkear...@gmail.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>

RE: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver

[Dave Taylor]

I bet that if they tried, they would soon realise that the ribbons would be
difficult if not impossible to implement with VO anyway. As it is, their
insistence on these awful things is one of my key drivers for making the
switch, though there are many others too. Mike, the podcast where you
install Snow Leopard is as good a demonstration as anything of how far
things have come on the Mac side, I'm afraid it is the opposite story,
almost the reverse story, on the windows side!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 11:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver

I don't think he said it was a beta. It is very disappointing indeed,
really, Microsoft has no excuse for this one, it's not like they were not
aware of accessibility and voice over, they just chose not to do anything
with it. Apple has created a built in screen reader and provided the APIs to
make programs accessible, Microsoft has definitely shown their interest in
this. At least on the mac, there are alternatives that will handle Microsoft
Office files, namely iwork and open office.
On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:18 PM, M. Taylor wrote:

> Hello Greg,
> 
> Thank you so much for providing this info.
> 
> I cannot begin to relay how sad and disappointed I am at the news of
> Microsoft's Office 2011 VoiceOver inaccessibility.  
> 
> Wow!
> 
> You know, when I installed the very first beta of Windows 7, it was
> completely accessible.  That is to say, as soon as one launched the
> installation program for Windows 7, a very clear voice prompt asked if
audio
> assistance was required.  This came as a total surprise to me, to say the
> least.  I answered in the affirmative and was able to install Windows 7
> without any sighted assistance, whatsoever.  I installed that first beta
on
> three of my computers.  By the way, the voice that was used to guide me
> through the setup was not that of Narrator--it was much clearer.
> 
> Astonishingly, with the release of the next beta of Windows 7, this
feature
> was removed.  I was shocked, disappointed, and angry, to say the least.  
> 
> It was then that I began considering purchasing a Macintosh.  
> 
> It's been much too long to recall how I came to learn Microsoft's reason
for
> removing this feature but they said they removed it for security concerns;
> to which I exclaim, "TommyRot!"  Or, to put it in the vernacular,
> "That's a load of crap"
> 
> Greg, is it possible that the final release of Office 2011 will be
VoiceOver
> accessible?  I mean, you reviewed a beta, did you not?  Perhaps I'm just
> grasping at straws, eh?  (Smile) 
> 
> Thanks again for giving us a proverbial "heads-up" on this one.
> 
> Most Sincerely,
> 
> mark
> -
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:22 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; macvoiceo...@freelists.org; Mary Beth
> Janes; Mike Shebanek
> Subject: Microsoft Office 2011 and VoiceOver
> 
> It is my sad duty to report that after getting a chance to test Microsoft
> Office 2011 for Mac that it is no more accessible in this version than in
> any of the previous versions. As in the past it is impossible to interact
> with any of the content areas of the program. You are not able to review,
> read or edit the text area in Word or Excel.
> 
> It should not be clear to all that Microsoft has no intention of ever
fixing
> these issues. I communicated directly with Microsoft over the same failing
> in Office 2008. The fact that after a complete rewire of the programs they
> remain inaccessible to the built in screen reader of the OS to me speak
> volumes about Microsoft's total lack of commitment to accessibility on the
> Macintosh platform and may well speak to Microsoft's general commitment to
> the platform as well.
> 
> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
> Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
> PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA
6100
> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> Email: greg.kear...@guidedogswa.com.au
> Email: gkear...@gmail.com
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> 
> 
> -- 
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macvisi

Re: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail

[Dave Taylor]

 Hi,

The key is to know what Apple Mail will import from since Outlook just 
lists programs it can export to. However, I found a great utility at 
www.techit.com called Save 4 Mac which does exactly what I want, for 
mail, calendars and contacts. Pity my Outlook went on strike though!


Cheers
Dave


On 26/09/2010 09:00, Simon Fogarty wrote:


Dave,

Is there not an export option within outlook 2k7  that lets you create 
an archive file in a mail format?


*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave Taylor

*Sent:* Friday, 24 September 2010 7:05 a.m.
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* RE: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail

Thanks. I'm surprised nobody apart from seemingly TB can import 
Outlook mail. You'd think Apple would have an Outlook importer that 
could just look at a .pst and import the lot! Oh well!


At least I know I can do it.

Thanks

Dave

*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sarah Alawami

*Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:26 PM
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail

You can have thunderburd export as mbox format and mail will import 
those very nicely. I've had to do it before through tb. I googled an 
article on how to do it and that was the best free way to do it.


S

On Sep 23, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:



Hi,

This explanation doesn't make sense to me. What do you mean by 
transferring mail into appropriate formats? What will Apple Mail 
import from? I must admit I'm wondering if a MobileMe trial is the 
best way to do this now?


Any help appreciated as Mac expected any day!

Cheers

Dave

*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sarah Alawami

*Sent:* Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:32 AM
*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>

*Subject:* Re: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail

don't laugh but what I did was the following

1. downloaded thunderbird and transfered all of my mail in there and 
then exported it in to the approprate formats. 2. uploaded these using 
dropbox or coppying them to another drive.


3. went to apple mail and imported and then transfered all of my 
imported messages in to mail and created the folders. that matched the 
import.


S

On Sep 22, 2010, at 5:05 PM, denise avant wrote:




Hello all,

I want to move my e-mail from my windows machine to the mac. Has 
anyone done this with outlook, specifically 2007. If so, can you 
explain what you did? Thanks.


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<mailto:macvisionar

RE: an Apple related article

[Dave Taylor]

They are impressive figures indeed. For the sake of productivity,
accessibility, and for many other reasons, I hope companies look at Mac to
go with their iPads more seriously. They generally go for expensive laptops
anyway, so I suspect costs would be lower after the transition!
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheree Heppe
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 4:58 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: an Apple related article
 

   Apple Could Sell 21M iPads in 2011 on Sales to Fortune 100 Companies
 
 By MATTHEW LYNLEY of [3]VentureBeat
 
Apple could sell 21 million units of its iPad tablet next year as half
of the largest and most prominent companies in the world begin testing
or deploying the iPad for corporate use, [4]according to an analyst
with Wall Street firm [5]Piper Jaffray.
 
About 50 percent of Fortune 100 companies have begun either testing or
full-out using the iPad for their corporate needs, though Piper Jaffray
senior research analyst [6]Gene Munster wouldn't specify which
companies, AppleInsider reported.
 
Apple's enterprise presence has continued to grow, as its enterprise
sales [7]grew 50 percent in the second quarter this year when compared
to the same time period last year. The iPad has a number of tools for
enterprise users, including access to corporate email accounts,
applications for creating and editing presentations and a huge
application development ecosystem for custom enterprise applications.
 
iPad sales will also continue to grow as the supply of Apple's tablets
has grown enough to sate heavy demand for the device, Munster said.
Apple sold [8]3 million units after the device's launch through the end
of the second quarter in July.
 
Sales in emerging markets could also drive the Apple's performance in
2011, as the iPad was finally [9]launched in China earlier this month
with some success. Best Buy will also [10]begin selling the iPad in all
1,093 of its stores later this week in advance of the holiday season.
 
Apple's iPad serves as a media consumption device that falls somewhere
between the smaller iPod Touch and iPhone and the more expensive
Macbook and Macbook Pro laptop computers that Apple offers. Apple
targets casual computer users -- with full access to the App Store --
with the iPad at a price point between $500 and $829.
 
This isn't the first time cheerleaders have come out in favor of the
iPad: [11]Maynard Um of UBS Investment Research said earlier this month
that Apple [12]could sell up to 28 million iPads in 2011, beating out
the Samsung Galaxy Tab android tablet.
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RE: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail

[Dave Taylor]

Thanks. I’m surprised nobody apart from seemingly TB can import Outlook
mail. You’d think Apple would have an Outlook importer that could just look
at a .pst and import the lot! Oh well!
 
At least I know I can do it.
 
Thanks
 
Dave
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:26 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail
 
You can have thunderburd export as mbox format and mail will import those
very nicely. I've had to do it before through tb. I googled an article on
how to do it and that was the best free way to do it.
 
S
 
On Sep 23, 2010, at 2:56 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:



Hi,
 
This explanation doesn’t make sense to me. What do you mean by transferring
mail into appropriate formats? What will Apple Mail import from? I must
admit I’m wondering if a MobileMe trial is the best way to do this now?
 
Any help appreciated as Mac expected any day!
 
Cheers
Dave
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail
 
don't laugh but what I did was the following
 
1. downloaded thunderbird and transfered all of my mail in there and then
exported it in to the approprate formats. 2. uploaded these using dropbox or
coppying them to another drive.
 
3. went to apple mail and imported and then transfered all of my imported
messages in to mail and created the folders. that matched the import.
 
S
On Sep 22, 2010, at 5:05 PM, denise avant wrote:




Hello all,
I want to move my e-mail from my windows machine to the mac. Has anyone done
this with outlook, specifically 2007. If so, can you explain what you did?
Thanks.
 
 
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RE: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail

[Dave Taylor]

Hi,
 
This explanation doesn’t make sense to me. What do you mean by transferring
mail into appropriate formats? What will Apple Mail import from? I must
admit I’m wondering if a MobileMe trial is the best way to do this now?
 
Any help appreciated as Mac expected any day!
 
Cheers
Dave
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: transferring ms outllok mail to apple mail
 
don't laugh but what I did was the following
 
1. downloaded thunderbird and transfered all of my mail in there and then
exported it in to the approprate formats. 2. uploaded these using dropbox or
coppying them to another drive.
 
3. went to apple mail and imported and then transfered all of my imported
messages in to mail and created the folders. that matched the import.
 
S
On Sep 22, 2010, at 5:05 PM, denise avant wrote:



Hello all,
I want to move my e-mail from my windows machine to the mac. Has anyone done
this with outlook, specifically 2007. If so, can you explain what you did?
Thanks.
 
 
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BT Keyboard from Amaszon.co.uk

[Dave Taylor]

Hi, I finally received the keyboard I ordered through Amazon.co.uk, they
just call the Mini Bluetooth Keyboard. This is the one with the arrows on
the A, S, D, and W keys. I must say, the reviews on all the lists have been
really helpful, this is a great keyboard and I'm very impressed. I didn't
think such a small keyboard would be this easy to type on. Think I must have
every possible angle covered for my iPhone now lol!

Cheers
Dave


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RE: how many people on this list has written into apple accessabilty about getting some UK/US/Ostraylion voices on there ipod/iphone line up?

[Dave Taylor]

If they are to put a male voice on, I think it would have to be one of the
other Mac voices. I still prefer UK Eloquence to anything personally!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: how many people on this list has written into apple
accessabilty about getting some UK/US/Ostraylion voices on there ipod/iphone
line up?

Hello Ben, what I wanted or feel that I need is to apple to some how put 
some male voices on there ipods and  iphone devices. Because I just can't 
understand the female ones at all. I have a hearing impairment and have two 
hearing aids I just don't understand the pronunciation of the female voices 
and it can get very fustrating. I brought an Ipod touch last year for 
christmas but I took it back and got my money backpartly due to this issue! 
I would love to see Alex on there some how but from what I have heard in the

past I very much doubt it because from what I have heard is that he has a 
very big file size. He is the one I mostly understand when I was trying out 
the Mac in commet a while ago the next best one I could understand was Fred.
But I hope that clears my expermation up. Basicly to have more male voices 
on these devices.
Daniel


--
From: "Ben Mustill-Rose" 
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:48 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: how many people on this list has written into apple 
accessabilty about getting some UK/US/Ostraylion voices on there ipod/iphone

line up?

> Wanted what exactly?
>
> On 19/09/2010, Daniel McGee  wrote:
>> hi everyone, subject line says it all. After posting about it a while ago

>> I
>> was wondering since then has anyone who would like this in apple's future
>> updates of there I OS software emailed.
>> apple@
>> accessibility.com
>>
>> Just wondering how many people who else wanted this took the time to send
>> them an email like I've done.
>>
>> Hope to hear from you all soon.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>
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RE: Google search

[Dave Taylor]

If you Google "Google Accessible Search" it will take you to the page. It's
a very simple interface and it gives results based more on accessibility but
they are still good. In Windows I find it loads much more quickly than the
regular Google search, but I do quite hope iGoogle works better for me soon,
don't see why it shouldn't!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 6:23 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Google search

What's this about an "accessible google page"? I just press Command-Option-f
on whatever page I'm on in Safari and enter my search terms. I have
absolutely no problem with VO crashing.

To find the results, I press VO-Command-h three times and there I am.

I use google day in and day out when I'm translating so I think I would have
noticed had there been a problem.

Cheers,

Anne

On 19 Sep 2010, at 05:22, carlene knight wrote:

> I am using the accessible Google search page without Web Kit.  Voiceover
doesn't seem to have any problems like it did with the regular Google search
;page. 

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RE: Sendero look around app is now available

[Dave Taylor]

Sendero did it for me.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 6:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available

So what should I type? something like Sendero Look Around App?


Kawal Gucukoglu

On 18 Sep 2010, at 06:20 PM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Yes it's there.,
> 
> Make sure to go to settings and change the map to UK/europe in the app.
It's set to north america by default.
> On Sep 18, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> 
>> Is this App in ow UK store?
>> 
>> 
>> Kawal Gucukoglu
>> 
>> On 18 Sep 2010, at 03:41 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>> 
>>> Nope, nope, and, nope. :).  For the 4 functions it does have, it does 3
of them very well.  Announce your current location, give your your nearest
cross street, and give you your compass heading.  The 5 nearest POI function
doesn't hold a candle to an app like around me which is free.  I bought the
app mainly to show support.  I believe this is just a feeler by Sendero to
see how much interest is generated on the IOS platform.  Hopefully a good
showing will make them want to develop a full turn by turn GPS app like
mobile geo for IOS.
>>> 
>>> hth 
>>> On Sep 17, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Oh, does this have any advantages over Where To, which is free and
>>>> excellent?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Braille
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:27 PM
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available
>>>> 
>>>> For $3.99 at 
>>>> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sendero-gps-lookaround/id386831856?mt=8
>>>> 
>>>> Alternatively, I map U and around me, can give similar info to users.
They
>>>> are free by the way.
>>>> Eugene
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi list,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just want to let you guys know the Sendero look around GPS app is now
>>>> available for download.
>>>>> 
>>>>> hth 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
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Groups
>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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Groups
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>>>> 
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>>> 
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RE: Sendero look around app is now available

[Dave Taylor]

Yes it is. I bought it, as much to show them that iPhone users are
interested as anything. I set my country to UK and off it went. Each app
seems to have entirely different POIs. I wish this one gave you any details
about them like the others, frankly it's only good for finding your next
intersection and how close things are, it doesn't give you an address or let
you get directions there from maps. Voxtrek still has it for most things for
me.

Cheers
Dave
  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 5:38 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available

Is this App in ow UK store?


Kawal Gucukoglu

On 18 Sep 2010, at 03:41 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Nope, nope, and, nope. :).  For the 4 functions it does have, it does 3 of
them very well.  Announce your current location, give your your nearest
cross street, and give you your compass heading.  The 5 nearest POI function
doesn't hold a candle to an app like around me which is free.  I bought the
app mainly to show support.  I believe this is just a feeler by Sendero to
see how much interest is generated on the IOS platform.  Hopefully a good
showing will make them want to develop a full turn by turn GPS app like
mobile geo for IOS.
> 
> hth 
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:
> 
>> Oh, does this have any advantages over Where To, which is free and
>> excellent?
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Braille
>> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:27 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available
>> 
>> For $3.99 at 
>> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sendero-gps-lookaround/id386831856?mt=8
>> 
>> Alternatively, I map U and around me, can give similar info to users.
They
>> are free by the way.
>> Eugene
>> 
>> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi list,
>>> 
>>> Just want to let you guys know the Sendero look around GPS app is now
>> available for download.
>>> 
>>> hth 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Groups
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>>> 
>> 
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> 
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RE: Sendero look around app is now available

[Dave Taylor]

That'll teach me to read conversations from the start rather than the end
then! Blooming Outlook! I can't wait to have a ail client that works well
with threads, but I know that won't be long now!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available

Hello everyone,

Please disregard my previous message. I had to reset the country from North
America to Europe and now it's working.

Cheers,

Anne

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RE: Sendero look around app is now available

[Dave Taylor]

Hi,

Except we were later told that we needed to go into settings and set our
country to UK and it would then work, and we have to do that as well as
setting our current location.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:27 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available

Hello Dave,

This app would appear only to work in North America. I made the mistake of
purchasing it last night, as did someone in the UK, and for us Europeans
it's useless. It has no maps for Europe.

Cheers,

Anne


On 18 Sep 2010, at 01:16, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Oh, does this have any advantages over Where To, which is free and
> excellent?
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Braille
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:27 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available
> 
> For $3.99 at 
> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sendero-gps-lookaround/id386831856?mt=8
> 
> Alternatively, I map U and around me, can give similar info to users. They
> are free by the way.
> Eugene
> 
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Hi list,
>> 
>> Just want to let you guys know the Sendero look around GPS app is now
> available for download.
>> 
>> hth 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
> 
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RE: Sendero look around app is now available

[Dave Taylor]

Oh, does this have any advantages over Where To, which is free and
excellent?

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Braille
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:27 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Sendero look around app is now available

For $3.99 at 
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sendero-gps-lookaround/id386831856?mt=8

Alternatively, I map U and around me, can give similar info to users. They
are free by the way.
Eugene

On Sep 17, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi list,
> 
> Just want to let you guys know the Sendero look around GPS app is now
available for download.
> 
> hth 
> 
> -- 
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> 

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RE: IOS 4.1, blutooth keyboard and the iPod Touch as a notetaker for school?

[Dave Taylor]

I sync my notes to Outlook, but have the Documents App which allows you to
work with text files as well, over wifi at least!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allison Manzino
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:50 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IOS 4.1, blutooth keyboard and the iPod Touch as a notetaker
for school?

Hi all,

Thank you for posting this question. I was wondering the same thing. But I
never thought it was possible. As my BrailleNote is slowly dying, I may need
to use the Iphone as an option for work. I didn't realize you could E-mail
notes from your Iphone. THat is pretty cool. I will have to try this one
day. I was just thinking about how neat it would be to pair the Iphone with
a BLuetooth keyboard and Braille display. Now that would be amazing. I love
watching how this new technology is going to develop and open so many new
doors that were previously closed to us.
 Have a great evening.

Musically,
Allison

My birds are winged blessings, they help me soar!


On Sep 12, 2010, at 5:25 PM, Ryan Mann wrote:

> The title of the notes show up in the subject line, but the rest of the
notes are in the body of the message.  For example, if you add a new note
and you put the word "schedule" in the top of the document, that will be in
the subject line.  Whatever you put below the word "schedule" will be in the
body of the message.  You can paste that into TextEdit and save it.
> 
> On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> You can email notes to yourself but I believe they will show up all in
the subject line or something. that part still confuses me.
>> 
>> Take care.
>> On Sep 12, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Kimberly thurman wrote:
>> 
>>> Good morning folks:
>>> 
>>> The subject line pretty much says it all, except for one thing.  Suppose
I use this as a notetaker, can I transfer the notes to my Macbook and open
them in Text Edit or Pages?  Is this done through iTunes?  I don't suppose
you can E-mail them as attachments from the iPod Touch, or maybe you can?
Thoughts and comments appreciated.  This set up would most definitely be
much lighter than even my 13 inch MBP.  :)
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
> Ryan Mann
> rmann0...@gmail.com
> Follow me on Facebook.
> http://m.facebook.com/profile.php?r170f8385&refid=7
> 
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RE: Hi

[Dave Taylor]

Chris,

Good to see you hear. Bear in mind that, though you would pay more over all,
you can spread the cost of a Mac, so this might actually be the most
affordable way for people to buy an accessible system!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of chris hallsworth
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:47 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Hi

Hi all.
I have just joined this list. I think I was on a while ago with probably 
a different e-mail, but left due to other commitments. Those commitments 
have now passed and I'm willing to learn about the mac and I see other 
accessible products from Apple.
I don't intend to look into a mac due to financial commitments, however 
this probably will happen in the future. So for now I will just learn 
and contribute if necessary.
For those who don't know me I am 26 years old, blind with light 
perception, hearing impaired and have mild physical disabilities.
My comments are it's wonderful that Apple are building accessibility 
into their products, including the mac.
Well that's all for now folks. Take care.
-- 

 From Chris H in Derbyshire
Please check out my blog at http://chrishallsworth.klangoblog.net. Many 
thanks.

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RE: new iphone update first impression

[Dave Taylor]

This seems to be a problem with speaking rate at 75 or over. Cut to below 70
and it will be noticeably better. Think it might be a voice thing but will
be contacting them.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christy Schulte
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:01 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: new iphone update first impression

Hm, my letters are reading ok, but I am noticing that some of the speech is 
cutting off slightly prematurely. Not enough to make it unusable, but enough

to be annoying. It's like on some things, the very last syllable gets cut in

half, is the best way I know to describe it. With letters, it's not always 
doing this, but sometimes it does, making telling the difference between say

an M and an N rather difficult.

- Original Message - 
From: "joseph" 
To: "MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:22 PM
Subject: new iphone update first impression


> hi listers, after downloading the newest iphone update i discovered
> that when typing text, voice over does not announce some of the
> letters needed to type, so if you don't have a good memory of the
> letters layout on the keyboard, you are in trouble.  i would email
> accessibility with these findings.
>
> best
>
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>
>







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3121 - Release Date: 09/08/10 
06:07:00

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RE: new iphone update first impression

[Dave Taylor]

Hi,

I had started to experience this with 4.0.2 in the past couple of days, and
hadn't changed any settings either. Using phonetics at least the phonetic
always speaks.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of joseph
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:23 AM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: new iphone update first impression

hi listers, after downloading the newest iphone update i discovered
that when typing text, voice over does not announce some of the
letters needed to type, so if you don't have a good memory of the
letters layout on the keyboard, you are in trouble.  i would email
accessibility with these findings.

best

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RE: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to purchase and learn

[Dave Taylor]

There are a whole number of things I've found I simply can't do,
particularly in Outlook and Excel, simple things like read an email from the
iTunes store without having to put it in the browser, which requires four
individual keystrokes and a long wait! 



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin Ekis
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 8:29 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to
purchase and learn

While I actually found office 2007 to be just as accessible and usable 
as anything else on windows, I agree that it is more pleasant to do 
anything on the Mac. I almost bought IWork, and might still do it, but 
so far I have found that a free word processer called bean does 
everything that I need to do when working with documents. You can find 
it at www.bean-osx.com.

- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Taylor" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 12:15 AM
Subject: RE: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to 
purchase and learn


> They are both very expensive though. I would urge working out which 
> tasks
> you can do on the Mac side. The more you can do on the Mac side, the 
> cheaper
> the screen reader you will need. If you can use iWork and built in Mac 
> apps
> rather than touching Outlook, for instance, you can probably get away 
> with
> NVDA. Office 2007 is slow and, in my view, doesn't work that well with
> screen readers. Office 2007 and 2010 use an entirely different 
> interface
> than anything else out there and I think are slow and hard to learn. 
> This is
> the main reason I won't be surprised if I make that order in the next 
> couple
> of weeks and go over to a similar situation where I use Mac for 
> everything I
> can and only cross back when I have to.
>
> Nothing works like VO, and nothing has a voice to match Alex, I think 
> you'll
> hate everything about the way Windows is going, personally!
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 5:20 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to
> purchase and learn
>
> Jaws is more or less the standard in terms of you'll run in to that 
> more
> than others.
>
> Window-eyes is another great option.  I haven't used it but many many 
> people
>
> think very highly of it.
>
> What I would do if I were you is take that Mac, set yourself up a 
> virtual
> machine and try the demo copies of all the options you listed.  Read 
> the
> manual / ask questions and you should be able to bootstrap yourself. 
> You
> may need help creating the VM for Windows I had a help desk not sure 
> your
> situation although there is a podcast that details this process.
>I like Jaws myself but I have heard Window-eyes can be more stable 
> and
> leaner on resources.  Costs differ, JFW is probably the most 
> expensive.
>Window-eyes comes with an option where you can pay for the software 
> in
> installments which is a fantastic feature on a budget.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bryan Jones" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:52 PM
> Subject: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to 
> purchase
> and learn
>
>
> I realize the question might sound strange and even off-topic, but I 
> really
> want to hear this advice from fellow Mac and VO Users. When I last 
> used
> Windows I was able to get by with a screen magnifier and didn't use a 
> screen
>
> reader. By the time I needed to start using a screen reader I had 
> already
> moved to the Mac full time so VO was the natural choice. Now I'm being
> required to start using Windows again, along with Office 2007 and 
> Internet
> Explorer 8 and I'm not sure which Windows screen reader I should 
> invest my
> time and money to learn, or if one of them is more like VO than the 
> others.
> I will be running either XP or Windows 7 under Fusion.
>
> Please send your replies directly to me off-list as this probably 
> isn't a
> thread that needs to grow here. I would be grateful for your thoughts 
> on the
>
> following questions:
> 1. I've heard of Jaws, Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA. Any 
> others I
> should consider?
> 2. Is there a Windows screen reader that works like VO?
> 3. Is there one Windows screen reader that is easier to learn than the
> oth

RE: the unix shell and mac terminal

[Dave Taylor]

I don't know anything about this side of using a Mac at all. Is there a good
place to learn about it, right from scratch? I'll probably hardly need it,
but would certainly like to know just in case.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:36 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: the unix shell and mac terminal

Hi
Over the past few weeks I have been running vinux 3.0 lucid in a virtual
machine and have been playing with it. And then recently I went into the
terminal on my mac in snow leopard and typed some commands and surprisingly
I find that most of the commands I can perform in vinux I can also do with
the terminal or the mac's unix shell. It's really cool. The only difference
I can see in the mac is that it uses the darwin kernel while vinux uses the
linux kernel. Oh and guys if you go into a terminal in your mac and type:
man ls
you can even read the unix man pages there. The only thing that doesn't work
is apt-get command. I'm not sure if dpkg works or not, I haven't tried it.
I'll try right now. Well guys dpkg also does not work. The mac's shell
reminds me very much of vinux 3.0 lucid though. 
If you type 
uname -a 
it will tell you the kernel version among other things. 
If you type:
man ls
it will bring up the man page for the ls list directory command. to quit the
man pages just press the letter q,. To close terminal hit command q. You can
even hit tab and it will autocomplete commands for you. I imagine the unix
shell is very powerful, even on the mac. And I'm glad mac uses the bash
shell. Vinux uses it too. I doubt voxin would work on the mac since voxin I
think is compiled for the linux kernel and not the darwin version10 kernel. 

Josh Kennedy
jkenn...@gmail.com


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RE: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to purchase and learn

[Dave Taylor]

They are both very expensive though. I would urge working out which tasks
you can do on the Mac side. The more you can do on the Mac side, the cheaper
the screen reader you will need. If you can use iWork and built in Mac apps
rather than touching Outlook, for instance, you can probably get away with
NVDA. Office 2007 is slow and, in my view, doesn't work that well with
screen readers. Office 2007 and 2010 use an entirely different interface
than anything else out there and I think are slow and hard to learn. This is
the main reason I won't be surprised if I make that order in the next couple
of weeks and go over to a similar situation where I use Mac for everything I
can and only cross back when I have to.

Nothing works like VO, and nothing has a voice to match Alex, I think you'll
hate everything about the way Windows is going, personally!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 5:20 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to
purchase and learn

Jaws is more or less the standard in terms of you'll run in to that more 
than others.

Window-eyes is another great option.  I haven't used it but many many people

think very highly of it.

What I would do if I were you is take that Mac, set yourself up a virtual 
machine and try the demo copies of all the options you listed.  Read the 
manual / ask questions and you should be able to bootstrap yourself.  You 
may need help creating the VM for Windows I had a help desk not sure your 
situation although there is a podcast that details this process.
I like Jaws myself but I have heard Window-eyes can be more stable and 
leaner on resources.  Costs differ, JFW is probably the most expensive.
Window-eyes comes with an option where you can pay for the software in 
installments which is a fantastic feature on a budget.

Hope that helps.



- Original Message - 
From: "Bryan Jones" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:52 PM
Subject: Need Mac User's advice on which Windows screen reader to purchase 
and learn


I realize the question might sound strange and even off-topic, but I really 
want to hear this advice from fellow Mac and VO Users. When I last used 
Windows I was able to get by with a screen magnifier and didn't use a screen

reader. By the time I needed to start using a screen reader I had already 
moved to the Mac full time so VO was the natural choice. Now I'm being 
required to start using Windows again, along with Office 2007 and Internet 
Explorer 8 and I'm not sure which Windows screen reader I should invest my 
time and money to learn, or if one of them is more like VO than the others. 
I will be running either XP or Windows 7 under Fusion.

Please send your replies directly to me off-list as this probably isn't a 
thread that needs to grow here. I would be grateful for your thoughts on the

following questions:
1. I've heard of Jaws, Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA. Any others I 
should consider?
2. Is there a Windows screen reader that works like VO?
3. Is there one Windows screen reader that is easier to learn than the 
others?
4. I was intimately familiar with XP but don't know Windows 7 at all. Are 
they similar enough that I should get Windows 7, or should I try to get XP 
so that I don't have to learn a new operating system along with the new 
screen reader?
5. I will probably only need to use Windows for the next 2 years and most of

my work will still be done on the Mac. Given this limited time frame, is one

of the Windows screen readers less expensive to own over that time period?

TIA for any assistance,
Bryan

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RE: Gizmodo: Giz Explains: How Blind People See the Internet

[Dave Taylor]

Well, I'm mighty impressed with that site and everything I've tried from it,
but I've added a load of free apps I found on iTunes for music and radio as
well, and they *all* just work. I know there will be plenty that don't, but
in general, I've never seen so much accessibility in mainstream software,
anywhere, ever, so I'd say just try things! 

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 6:34 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Gizmodo: Giz Explains: How Blind People See the Internet

Yeah go to http://www.applevis.com and see what's there. the list is growing
daily.

s
On Aug 27, 2010, at 10:29 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

> Has anyone actually tried / started putting to gether a list of accessible
> apps for the I devices?
> 
> I know there are a lot of apps out there, but it would be interesting to
> know what is accessible or not. 
> Even games could be made accessible to a point.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker
> Sent: Thursday, 26 August 2010 12:22 a.m.
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Gizmodo: Giz Explains: How Blind People See the Internet
> 
> Why don't you agree with the notion that most apps for the iPhone aren't
> accessible?  It seems pretty accurate to me.  There is over 100,000 apps
in
> the iTunes store.  You think there is at least 50,000 accessible apps?
Keep
> in mind a lot of these apps are video games.
> On Aug 25, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:
> 
>> If you do a search for "your eyes" without the quotes, it will take 
>> you to the first line of the article there by skipping all the rubbish 
>> thats before it.
>> 
>> It's a pretty interesting read, although I don't really agree with the 
>> hole most iPhone apps are inaccessible thing. Also, did anyone notice 
>> that they hadn't described the picture at the end of the post?
>> 
>> On 25/08/2010, Isaac Obie  wrote:
>>> Jerry,
>>> How do I find the article listed in this email? I went online but I 
>>> can't find the article? What might I be doing wrong or not doing? 
>>> thanks Isaac
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Brett Campbell" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 5:51 PM
>>> Subject: Gizmodo: Giz Explains: How Blind People See the Internet
>>> 
>>> 
 I thought some in the group might find this article interesting.
 
 Gizmodo: Giz Explains: How Blind People See the Internet 
 http://gizmodo.com/5620079/
 
 
 Brett C.
 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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RE: iphone recording quality

[Dave Taylor]

I can’t tell you the exact quality, but I’m really impressed with my new
iPhone for audio recording. It is crystal clear. To be honest, I haven’t
found anything major I don’t like yet!
 
Cheers
Dave
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Erkens
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: iphone recording quality
 
Hi list,
 
How is the audio recording quality of the iphone? Once I get my iphone, I'm
hoping it will record in 44.1 kilo hertz 16 bit, just like my Nokia does
when I record. Is an iphone recording crystal clear, or does it sound more
like telephone quality?
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RE: replying to facebook messages directly from mail?

[Dave Taylor]

It is possible to reply to comments on your status, wall posts etc, but not
to inbox messages. You can receive emails to which you can reply on other
people’s comments once you have commented on a status. Your other option is
to set up text messaging. With texts, you can reply to inbox messages,
accept or ignore friend requests and post comments. If you reply to a
comment by text, it now seems to send a message rather than post to the
thread. Alternatively m.facebook.com is very easy to use and takes hardly
any browsing, and in some third world countries you can use 0.facebook.com
 
Cheers
Dave
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Yuma Antoine Decaux
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: replying to facebook messages directly from mail?
 
Hi list,
 
I have had this article for a while, and wanted to know if it is possible.
 
To reply directly from mail to messages comments and others sent by
facebook.
 
This would really be a time saver, and good for me in the coming months as i
will be doing a lot of mobile journalism in a third world country.
 
Anyone can help me figure this one out?
 
Thanks. And best 
 
Yuma DX®
 
"Light has no value without darkness"
Image removed by sender. zato1.jpg
blog: http://www.theblindsamurai.com
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7
Tel: +64 210 22 77 190 
Phnom Penh: +85589900095
 
 
 
 
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<<~WRD289.jpg>>

RE: diffrent accsesible mail cliants from mac os10 mail

[Dave Taylor]

Hey, I haven't converted yet, but I know from this thread that it does what
Outlook does and more. I wish I had some of the keystrokes Apple Mail does!
I won't say anything about a certain interface that begins with the letter r
and how dreadful it is on here lol!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:38 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: diffrent accsesible mail cliants from mac os10 mail

Actually it's not. you can sort by date, subject and more. You can also sort
by thread and del threads with one fell swoop. Sending and receiving is a
snap. I recorded this in may of this year and I was about 3 months in to
using  a mac.

http://marrie.podbean.com/2010/05/05/a-look-at-apple-mail/

Take care all and enjoy.
On Aug 2, 2010, at 12:00 PM, trahern culver wrote:

> mail is diffracilt to use and shows message in a stupid order
> 
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RE: -- SPAM -- MacVisionaries disappearing Act

[Dave Taylor]

There is also a problem with Google Groups. Sometimes, when you join a list,
however you set it, it will not send you any email. I'm afraid I think they
could be the problem. I have spam set to be delivered so I can check it
myself!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McLean
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: -- SPAM -- MacVisionaries disappearing Act

If you have a spam filter check it.  I had to do that myself because my ISP
thinks everything from this list is spam.
On Jul 22, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Eric Caron wrote:

> Dear List, 
> 
> I'm feeling a little unwanted by Google Groups and MacVisionaries in
particular.  On occasion for no reason I can figure out I stop getting
messages from MacVisionaries and then after some time, in this last case
about a week, the messages start showing up again.  The changes do not
happen when I try to fix settings at the Manage Subscriptions area.  My
efforts there seem to make no difference. 
> Now that I have received the last five or so messages I'm hoping I'm
wanted again. 
> 
> Anyone else have this happen and know how to solve the problem.   Or, is
it really just me?
> 
> eRic Caron 
> 
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> 

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RE: spotlight search is wonderful!

[Dave Taylor]

Do you know, I was thinking about that very issue earlier and decided that
yet another ms feature has to be ditched right now. I know of a PC search
that will work better, but the idea of one OS that just does what I want it
to in a pretty consistent way gets more appealing by the day. I get my hands
on on Friday next week, and by the way we've had to close booking  for that
session due to its popularity, but I've already gone from wondering how to
do basic things in Mac to wishing I had it right now when Windows doesn't do
what I want.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 1:12 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Cc: Foret Jr
Subject: spotlight search is wonderful!

Hi

I just used spotlight search to look for a file I lost and didn't know where
it was. it was a piece of cake to use and it works great! I love it! I think
its superior to the windows xp search. 

Josh

Josh Kennedy
jkenn...@gmail.com


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RE: facebook with safari

[Dave Taylor]

Use m.facebook.com

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of chad baker
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:30 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: facebook with safari

Hi i just got friend requests on facebook.
I'm having trouble accessing them.
I go to the link where it has friend requests then it loads and nothing
could be found.
Does anyone have any suggestions navigating facebook its tricky.
thanks

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RE: VoiceOver 4.0

[Dave Taylor]

I suspect it needs each nation's braille authority to tell Apple what needs
doing in terms of code, and for standards to be created in terms of
representing things on braille displays, which Apple can then implement. The
UK Association for Accessible Formats will be looking closely at this area,
as I am sure ICEB will. Apple give us the perfect opportunity to sort out
the link between braille code and standards development and technology once
and for all. 

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 1:27 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: VoiceOver 4.0

Totally agree, all the legacy voices should go (am sure they could be
downloaded if anyone really wanted them) as they are useless.  Apple already
have a license for international voices as they use them on the iPhone.  Not
sure if they are suitable for the Mac, but hopefully this will be
considered.  My partner speaks german (second language) and was very
impressed when I showed him the language rota on the iphone.

I am assuming Alex is not too clever with speaking other languages?

I do agree that I do not want to see VoiceOver become bloated.  JAWS  has
become bloated with silly features like built in search and weather etc.
JAWS does  not take advantage of what the windows os HAS TO offer.  I find
JAWS would be happier if everything could be done within the application.
That is the beauty of Mac and iPhone users, they are prepared to step
outside the ring gardened fence approach and use the computer like sighted
users would.

But a few finishing touches to polish voiceover up a bit would not hurt.

Clearly by reading some of the feedback so far a great deal of Braille
support is needed for other languages too.  I am not a braille user so I
can't speak from personal experience, but a great number of you are.

I feel confident though that Apple will implement these steps in time.  It
is just up to us to tell Apple what we want and they will probably come up
with an even better and slicker way of doing it.  This is what I love about
Apple.
On 29 Jun 2010, at 12:15, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

> Hi,
> Normally i don't comment on these threads, because i'm so very afraid that
too many user requests will turn an excelent screen reader into bloatware as
the case is with Jaws, which unfortunately has become the defacto for what
we blind users want, but there are actually a couple things i'd love to see:
> The remembering of hot spots: preferably on a per application basis. This
would be helpful in situations where we have to set hot spots to quickly
come back to a place where we once were.
> And i definitely agree with the suggestion about a new voice, only i want
to go a bit further: skip all the ploy voices like bubbles, bells, trinoids,
zarvox, hysterical and all the other nonsence and give us international
users voices in our own languages such as Swedish, then we even here could
enjoy the total freedom of going up to a mac in an apple store and using it
as anyone else.
> And one thing i don't want to see, and this will probably make most blinks
angry: no virtual buffers whatsoever!
> /Krister
> 27 jun 2010 kl. 07.09 skrev Pete Nalda:
> 
>> 1. Language rotor, so I can hear Spanish, French, and Basque spoken like
they should be.  Alex and Vicki just don't do it for me, it sounds so
sterile.
>> 2. Automatic interaction with the text area in Mail.  I wonder if another
key should be used for stopping speech, as I don't get to use control+2
finger flick to change magnification when VO is running with the trackpad
commander.
>> 
>> On Jun 26, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
>> 
>>> Well guys now the iPhone 4.0 is out of he way, I think the next thing we
should start looking forward to is the next Mac OS.  10.7 (lion maybe?). 
>>> 
>>> so I was wondering what features/ improvements you would like
implemented into VoiceOver 4.0 and hopefully Apple are listening.
>>> 
>>> i will get the ball rolling ...
>>> 
>>> 1.  Intelligent number reading.  if voiceover encounters numbers then it
can only be set to read them as words or numbers.  It would be neat if
VoiceOver knew when it was more appropriate to say the numbers as digits or
words.  For example if the word year appeared after 26 (digits) voiceover
knew in this instance to read two six as twenty six years.  Another example
would be a phone number, if the word tel: or mobile: etc appears before
numbers beginning with either + or 0 then to read this out as digits and not
some huge number containing millions and thousands.  The same could be said
for time and measurements etc.
>>> 
>>> 2.  In mail it would be more useful if voiceover did not read blank
blank on every line on the message viewer if there was nothing in that cell.
yes I know you can turn buddies off and move columns around etc to get
around this, but really voiceover should only read out what is relevant

RE: VoiceOver 4.0

[Dave Taylor]

It won't make me angry if we can work efficiently without them. They cause
all sorts of problems with dynamic content!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 12:15 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: VoiceOver 4.0

Hi,
Normally i don't comment on these threads, because i'm so very afraid that
too many user requests will turn an excelent screen reader into bloatware as
the case is with Jaws, which unfortunately has become the defacto for what
we blind users want, but there are actually a couple things i'd love to see:
The remembering of hot spots: preferably on a per application basis. This
would be helpful in situations where we have to set hot spots to quickly
come back to a place where we once were.
And i definitely agree with the suggestion about a new voice, only i want to
go a bit further: skip all the ploy voices like bubbles, bells, trinoids,
zarvox, hysterical and all the other nonsence and give us international
users voices in our own languages such as Swedish, then we even here could
enjoy the total freedom of going up to a mac in an apple store and using it
as anyone else.
And one thing i don't want to see, and this will probably make most blinks
angry: no virtual buffers whatsoever!
/Krister
27 jun 2010 kl. 07.09 skrev Pete Nalda:

> 1. Language rotor, so I can hear Spanish, French, and Basque spoken like
they should be.  Alex and Vicki just don't do it for me, it sounds so
sterile.
> 2. Automatic interaction with the text area in Mail.  I wonder if another
key should be used for stopping speech, as I don't get to use control+2
finger flick to change magnification when VO is running with the trackpad
commander.
> 
> On Jun 26, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
> 
>> Well guys now the iPhone 4.0 is out of he way, I think the next thing we
should start looking forward to is the next Mac OS.  10.7 (lion maybe?). 
>> 
>> so I was wondering what features/ improvements you would like implemented
into VoiceOver 4.0 and hopefully Apple are listening.
>> 
>> i will get the ball rolling ...
>> 
>> 1.   Intelligent number reading.  if voiceover encounters numbers then it
can only be set to read them as words or numbers.  It would be neat if
VoiceOver knew when it was more appropriate to say the numbers as digits or
words.  For example if the word year appeared after 26 (digits) voiceover
knew in this instance to read two six as twenty six years.  Another example
would be a phone number, if the word tel: or mobile: etc appears before
numbers beginning with either + or 0 then to read this out as digits and not
some huge number containing millions and thousands.  The same could be said
for time and measurements etc.
>> 
>> 2.   In mail it would be more useful if voiceover did not read blank
blank on every line on the message viewer if there was nothing in that cell.
yes I know you can turn buddies off and move columns around etc to get
around this, but really voiceover should only read out what is relevant
unless the user wishes to interact with the item in more detail. I think it
would also be useful to know if the email has an attachment before opening
it.
>> 
>> 3.   An additional voice.  Alex is wonderful and plays great fast and
slow, the other voices that come with the mac have been there since the year
dot and probably sounded impressive in the 80s or 90s but now I wonder why
they are still there.  I would like to see an additional voice added to
complement Alex, maybe a female voice.  This would be useful for reading
events as some of us have to purchase an additional voice for this task.
>> 
>> 4.   Portable document image , when using adium or the weather widget I
get infuriated when I hear the graphic image read out as portable document
image.  Why can't voiceover simply say oh its a picture of the sun or a
cloud or its a smiley or sad face etc.
>> 
>> 5.   The ability to change the speech rate etc within iChat for when you
have events set up so new messages or buddies online are read out., as
currently the default is very slow and there is no way to speed them up.
>> 
>> 6.   The ability to remember hotspots and web hot spots (by website
basis) after turning the mac off would be very useful.  Landmarks has been
added to the iPhone, perhaps this could be added to the Mac too?
>> 
>> 7.   JAWS has the ability through scripting to make unaccessible
applications accessible.  This is not an ideal long term solution but it is
a temporary fix and the ability to share these scripts with others etc would
make the likes of Microsoft Office etc accessible until they finally get
around to following Apple's accessibility guidelines.
>> 
>> 8.   A keybaord shortcut to read out battery status when using a laptop.
Or even better still, when pressing the battery status button on the side of
the macbook, enable voiceover to detect  that button press and act on it.
>> 

RE: VoiceOver 4.0

[Dave Taylor]

Oh as a Jaws user I disagree with that! I would find it much better if you
could select what is listed in Item Finder. One keystroke you can use to
find all sorts is so much better than all those ones in Jaws. This is one
area where Window Eyes beats it hands down!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Nezumi
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 11:58 AM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: VoiceOver 4.0

hi chris
just a suggestion but could we have a headings list in VO?
not just on the web but like in jaws you press insert f7 a headings
list comes up.
this will be useful in such things as word etc. i know that VO isn't
jaws of course but i think this would be useful.
i would appriciate it if you could let me know what you think
thanks
Liam

Chris Moore wrote:
> Well guys now the iPhone 4.0 is out of he way, I think the next thing we
should start looking forward to is the next Mac OS.  10.7 (lion maybe?).
>
> so I was wondering what features/ improvements you would like implemented
into VoiceOver 4.0 and hopefully Apple are listening.
>
> i will get the ball rolling ...
>
> 1.Intelligent number reading.  if voiceover encounters numbers then it
can only be set to read them as words or numbers.  It would be neat if
VoiceOver knew when it was more appropriate to say the numbers as digits or
words.  For example if the word year appeared after 26 (digits) voiceover
knew in this instance to read two six as twenty six years.  Another example
would be a phone number, if the word tel: or mobile: etc appears before
numbers beginning with either + or 0 then to read this out as digits and not
some huge number containing millions and thousands.  The same could be said
for time and measurements etc.
>
> 2.In mail it would be more useful if voiceover did not read blank
blank on every line on the message viewer if there was nothing in that cell.
yes I know you can turn buddies off and move columns around etc to get
around this, but really voiceover should only read out what is relevant
unless the user wishes to interact with the item in more detail. I think it
would also be useful to know if the email has an attachment before opening
it.
>
> 3.An additional voice.  Alex is wonderful and plays great fast and
slow, the other voices that come with the mac have been there since the year
dot and probably sounded impressive in the 80s or 90s but now I wonder why
they are still there.  I would like to see an additional voice added to
complement Alex, maybe a female voice.  This would be useful for reading
events as some of us have to purchase an additional voice for this task.
>
> 4.Portable document image , when using adium or the weather widget I
get infuriated when I hear the graphic image read out as portable document
image.  Why can't voiceover simply say oh its a picture of the sun or a
cloud or its a smiley or sad face etc.
>
> 5.The ability to change the speech rate etc within iChat for when you
have events set up so new messages or buddies online are read out., as
currently the default is very slow and there is no way to speed them up.
>
> 6.The ability to remember hotspots and web hot spots (by website
basis) after turning the mac off would be very useful.  Landmarks has been
added to the iPhone, perhaps this could be added to the Mac too?
>
> 7.JAWS has the ability through scripting to make unaccessible
applications accessible.  This is not an ideal long term solution but it is
a temporary fix and the ability to share these scripts with others etc would
make the likes of Microsoft Office etc accessible until they finally get
around to following Apple's accessibility guidelines.
>
> 8.A keybaord shortcut to read out battery status when using a laptop.
Or even better still, when pressing the battery status button on the side of
the macbook, enable voiceover to detect  that button press and act on it.
>
> 9.When setting password protection on the Mac, VoiceOver is not set as
default to alert the user that they need to enter their password.  even
though VoiceOver might be set as the default to come on once you have
successfully logged onto the mac, you have to manually set in the accounts
preferences to enable voiceover to run on the login screen.
>
> Ok over you to guys now...
>
> Chris

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For 

RE: Frequent crashes of VoiceOver since the release of Mac OS X 10.6.4

[Dave Taylor]

Hi
 
Do bear in mind that it can be the speech synth dying. Try another speech
synth and see if you still have the same problems.
 
Cheers
Dave
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 1:26 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Frequent crashes of VoiceOver since the release of Mac OS X 10.6.4
 
Hi guys,
 
So I wanted to pass this to you guys, too.
 
Ever since the 10.6.4 update, I've been noticing frequent crashes with
VoiceOver. I hope I'm not the only one experiencing this problem. It also
seems to be random if you're being a casual observer, meaning that it
happens in whichever application I'm using if it feels like doing it. It
mostly seems to be if I'm moving very, very fast, however, or cutting off
speech by moving around such as a long string of text.
 
I've been seeing it a lot such as when I'm opening applications in
particular. This morning, for example, I started reading tweets in Syrinx
and suddenly, VoiceOver just died. Yesterday, I opened up the Infovox iVox
pronunciation editor to add some phonetic transcriptions. It was reading the
item in the finder while it was already opening. All I heard was "busy",
then "Infovox iVox Pronunciation Editor window", and when I tried to move to
cut off the speech concerning the transcriptions table, it died too.
 
I can't reproduce it, though, which is why I'm hoping someone else is seeing
this behavior too. It's much more frequent than ever for me, and I can't
figure it out. Previously, VoiceOver only crashed on me on certain websites
and even that was unusual.
 
Regards,
Nic
Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com
Facebook  
Twitter  
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
Yahoo! Messenger: cin368
AIM: cincinster
 
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RE: other voices for the macintosh computers

[Dave Taylor]

I've tried those voices. The samples sound great, but they pronounce so many
real words wrong it's untrue. I'd be interested to know how responsive the
computer is when using them on the Mac side as in Jaws it's a problem. I
suppose it's possible also that the Mac version is better than the Windows
version like with the Nuance voices on iPad etc.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:01 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: other voices for the macintosh computers

Hi

You can also buy voices for the mac at www.cereproc.com
also in the very near future cereproc will offer a consumer voice 
creation service that will let youu turn recordings of you, friends, 
favorite readers, or famous people into apple voices or sapi5 voices for 
windows.


Josh

-- 
Josh Kennedy jkenn...@gmail.com

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RE: Prospective Mac User

[Dave Taylor]

Another really useful response, thank you. All this is information I will be
using to get the most out of our day for as many people as possible. This
netbook has a couple of years in it I should think, but I have a feeling it
has received its last paid for update. My feeling is that by then, there
will be no second thought about making the switch. I've already been shot
down for being so excited about the trackpad, but I know it will be an
important way of doing things. Few people are born blind and I totally
believe that for somebody losing sight, even if they used Windows when
sighted, switching to VO would be much easier for them than learning Jaws or
NVDA.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Laura M
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 12:44 AM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User

As to 1, I find messaging on the Mac to be much, much more enjoyable
than I ever did on Windows. If you want to, you can use it the way you
describe, so you don't have to switch back and forth between the
message area and typing field, but even if you use it by tabbing
between them, your place is generally remembered, at least on iChat.
It also handles multi-person chats better than anything I ever had
with Windows. and the best part is, it works without any kind of Jaws
overlay. The same commands I use to switch between windows, or bring
up contacts are exactly the same for non-Voiceover users.

On a general point, I think listening to demos isn't a good way of
figuring out whether you'll be efficient. They don't sound convincing
in that regard, I know. That's no fault of the demos, I don't think.
It's just hard because some of the concepts, like interacting, seem
much more complicated than they are when you're just hearing about
them. When you're using them, they're far more intuitive--or at least,
they were for me.

Once I started using it, I found that I loved the Voiceover way of
doing things. I don't know if it's always more efficient (though I
certainly don't think it's less), but it's more useful than that for
me. Between group mode and the trackpad, I have a far better sense of
how websites and screens work. There's a context that was never
present with JAWS. I know, for example, how the mail program is laid
out, or that certain webpages have easily accessible sidebars that I
can instantly reach. That absolutely does make me more efficient,
because instead of tabbing or arrowing everywhere, I can just touch
where I want to be. Far, far fewer keystrokes. And because I know
where things are, if I'm explaining something to a friend or family
member, I can help them visually identify it far more easily than I
could've with JAWS. It really has shortened the distance between how I
use a computer and how my sighted friends do, and that's awesome.

That's also why I like that VO doesn't make assumptions about what I
want it to do, or decide that I'll inevitably want certain extra
commands. There are some essential things that really do have to be
there for basic functionality, and a lot of really cool stuff that
just makes life easier, but I'm not relying on the kind of special
JAWS scripts to get things done. Again, it increase parity between me
and everyone else using Macs. I didn't know it at the time, but now I
really do feel that JAWS was a layer between me and the operating
system, which in many cases made it very difficult if scripts broke,
or programs were updated, or I was simply trying to explain to a non-
JAWS user how I did something. Now I tell them what steps I take, and
in most cases, they can replicate them.

On Jun 17, 10:35 am, "Dave Taylor"  wrote:
> Here are some specific questions on areas where it appears Jaws is ahead.
>
> 1. In messenger programs, is it possible to have a set of keystrokes that
> will read messages and stay within the history area while being able to
type
> in the edit area at the same time and review that typing? I would want to
> have a feature set like the alt plus numbers and arrows in Jaws otherwise
it
> would be too slow. This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched to
> NVDA rather than Jaws.
>
> 2. In Skype, I can get to my contacts or conversations list with single
> keystrokes using ctrl 1 and ctrl 2, and focus most other areas with
similar
> keystrokes. In addition to the feature I just asked for in messenger, how
> easy is this in Mac?
>
> 3. This one is not a Mac problem, but is really important to me. I use
> several programs that make tasks so easy in Windows that don't work on the
> Mac. How much does it cost to buy Windows stand alone these days to run
> those on a Mac? I'm thinking of SpeakOn which makes internet radio,
podcasts
> and all sorts of o

RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

Now then. I suspected that was the case, but it amazes me that the demos
tell you to do things entirely differently. This kind of description is
exactly what we need more of. We need to make things as intuitive as
possible. You've certainly given me just what I need to make sure our
session works, so thank you.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

Hi Dave;

  What you'd like to do in Mail on the Mac in Snow Leopard 10.6.4 with VO,
is certainly doable. :)

  First, simply move to the messages table and then just use plain arrow
keys (no VO keys necessary) to move through your message headers. This will
read the sender and subject etc. as you move to each message in the table. 

YOu can also select or deselect as well as rearrange the displayed columns
so you can customize what you'd like to hear in what order. 

  Then, to read a message, you need only use the tab key and the message
will read automatically. 

  From here, if you delete the message, you'll be automatically placed back
in the messages table with the next message highlighted, and you can again
simply press tab to read that message. this is a very quick way to go
through mail. If you choose not to delete a particular message, you can also
use shift tab if you like, to get back to the message table as well, and
then simply continue reading your mail as above. 

HTH and have a lovely day / evening!…

Smiles,

Cara :)
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn

Follow me on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/ModelCara

On Jun 17, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:

Hi

Quick Nav certainly sounds excellent but doesn't appear to mimic things like
VO J. I in fact instigated the BCAB Apple day in July after Sight Village
Birmingham which seems to be very popular, so will be doing exactly what you
suggest as well. I'm asking so many questions right now in order to maximise
the effectiveness of the day should many people's fears about the presenters
be proved right. I don't know who they are but know the people sourcing them
will be finding the best they can.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 6:18 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

Has no one told you about Quick Nav? It sounds like what you're asking for.

However, you won't get any idea of VoiceOver by just asking questions. If
you can get to an Apple Store or Apple reseller, try one out.

Cheers,

Anne


On Jun 17, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Wish you could lock the VO keys with an arrow based command, that would
make
> a lot of difference I think!
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr.
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically
> 
> hello;  from my experience I generally use vo, which is control plus  
> option, with the arrow keys, space bar, and shift key.  I use tab and  
> shift tab for some things.  I use vo i and vo u a lot for the links  
> menu and items menu.  and if you have the newer ones and are familiar  
> with using a mouse you can do a lot of things with the track pad  
> commander feature.  good luck with your decision, max
> On Jun 17, 2010, at 4:27 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:
> 
>> Here is where I think one of the biggest issues is though. As a  
>> prospective
>> Mac user, from the demos and manuals, there seem to be an awful lot of
>> different and often complex keystrokes to do things. I'm not clear  
>> if one
>> needs all of them or if people doing the demos are making things more
>> complex than needed, or just not explaining why things are the way  
>> they are.
>> In Windows we can work out which methods to try based on what kind  
>> of task
>> we are doing. We know that you activate things with either enter or  
>> space,
>> both single keystrokes. We know there are many ways to move around,  
>> but we
>> know that we can find most things by exploring menus or tabbing.  
>> Most times,
>> our screen readers know what we are most likely to want to do and  
>> give us
>> the option of automating that task, often on a per application  
>> basis. They
>> can also give us relatively simple keystrokes on a per application  
>> basis t

RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

Hi

Quick Nav certainly sounds excellent but doesn't appear to mimic things like
VO J. I in fact instigated the BCAB Apple day in July after Sight Village
Birmingham which seems to be very popular, so will be doing exactly what you
suggest as well. I'm asking so many questions right now in order to maximise
the effectiveness of the day should many people's fears about the presenters
be proved right. I don't know who they are but know the people sourcing them
will be finding the best they can.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 6:18 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

Has no one told you about Quick Nav? It sounds like what you're asking for.

However, you won't get any idea of VoiceOver by just asking questions. If
you can get to an Apple Store or Apple reseller, try one out.

Cheers,

Anne


On Jun 17, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Wish you could lock the VO keys with an arrow based command, that would
make
> a lot of difference I think!
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr.
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically
> 
> hello;  from my experience I generally use vo, which is control plus  
> option, with the arrow keys, space bar, and shift key.  I use tab and  
> shift tab for some things.  I use vo i and vo u a lot for the links  
> menu and items menu.  and if you have the newer ones and are familiar  
> with using a mouse you can do a lot of things with the track pad  
> commander feature.  good luck with your decision, max
> On Jun 17, 2010, at 4:27 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:
> 
>> Here is where I think one of the biggest issues is though. As a  
>> prospective
>> Mac user, from the demos and manuals, there seem to be an awful lot of
>> different and often complex keystrokes to do things. I'm not clear  
>> if one
>> needs all of them or if people doing the demos are making things more
>> complex than needed, or just not explaining why things are the way  
>> they are.
>> In Windows we can work out which methods to try based on what kind  
>> of task
>> we are doing. We know that you activate things with either enter or  
>> space,
>> both single keystrokes. We know there are many ways to move around,  
>> but we
>> know that we can find most things by exploring menus or tabbing.  
>> Most times,
>> our screen readers know what we are most likely to want to do and  
>> give us
>> the option of automating that task, often on a per application  
>> basis. They
>> can also give us relatively simple keystrokes on a per application  
>> basis to
>> do tasks specific to that application.
>> 
>> It comes across that with a Mac you have at least three different  
>> way to
>> select things and that only one of them will work in a given  
>> situation. It
>> comes across that you have to navigate relatively complex screens with
>> multi-finger keystrokes to do what you can often do with one single
>> keystroke in Windows, specific questions in a separate message, and  
>> it comes
>> across that there are a lot of situations when a Windows screen  
>> reader would
>> automate something that you have to tell VO to do.
>> 
>> Be assured, I raise these points not in opposition to converting,  
>> I'm here
>> because I'm seriously thinking that when this computer goes, the  
>> next one
>> will be a Mac, but for others thinking of converting, I hope the  
>> answers
>> people give to these points will reassure them and hopefully be  
>> reflected in
>> some sort of searchable tips and tricks kind of website. I very much  
>> want to
>> know what's possible, not seem in opposition.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman
>> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:31 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically
>> 
>> Yeah, I fell into that trap early on with VO coming from Jaws.  Now,  
>> when I
>> pick up my windows laptop, I have to remind myself where the tab key  
>> is and
>> not to grab the contro

RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

Wish you could lock the VO keys with an arrow based command, that would make
a lot of difference I think!


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr.
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:38 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

hello;  from my experience I generally use vo, which is control plus  
option, with the arrow keys, space bar, and shift key.  I use tab and  
shift tab for some things.  I use vo i and vo u a lot for the links  
menu and items menu.  and if you have the newer ones and are familiar  
with using a mouse you can do a lot of things with the track pad  
commander feature.  good luck with your decision, max
On Jun 17, 2010, at 4:27 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Here is where I think one of the biggest issues is though. As a  
> prospective
> Mac user, from the demos and manuals, there seem to be an awful lot of
> different and often complex keystrokes to do things. I'm not clear  
> if one
> needs all of them or if people doing the demos are making things more
> complex than needed, or just not explaining why things are the way  
> they are.
> In Windows we can work out which methods to try based on what kind  
> of task
> we are doing. We know that you activate things with either enter or  
> space,
> both single keystrokes. We know there are many ways to move around,  
> but we
> know that we can find most things by exploring menus or tabbing.  
> Most times,
> our screen readers know what we are most likely to want to do and  
> give us
> the option of automating that task, often on a per application  
> basis. They
> can also give us relatively simple keystrokes on a per application  
> basis to
> do tasks specific to that application.
>
> It comes across that with a Mac you have at least three different  
> way to
> select things and that only one of them will work in a given  
> situation. It
> comes across that you have to navigate relatively complex screens with
> multi-finger keystrokes to do what you can often do with one single
> keystroke in Windows, specific questions in a separate message, and  
> it comes
> across that there are a lot of situations when a Windows screen  
> reader would
> automate something that you have to tell VO to do.
>
> Be assured, I raise these points not in opposition to converting,  
> I'm here
> because I'm seriously thinking that when this computer goes, the  
> next one
> will be a Mac, but for others thinking of converting, I hope the  
> answers
> people give to these points will reassure them and hopefully be  
> reflected in
> some sort of searchable tips and tricks kind of website. I very much  
> want to
> know what's possible, not seem in opposition.
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:31 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically
>
> Yeah, I fell into that trap early on with VO coming from Jaws.  Now,  
> when I
> pick up my windows laptop, I have to remind myself where the tab key  
> is and
> not to grab the control and windows key with the arrows.  It's very
> disorienting some times.  LOL!
> On Jun 16, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Anne Robertson wrote:
>
>> Hello Dave,
>>
>> You can set VO to interact automatically when you tab to a field  
>> where
> this is appropriate, but tabbing isn't always the best way to  
> navigate with
> VO. Many ex-JAWS users get themselves into a muddle by tabbing  
> everywhere.
> As a very very long-term Mac user, the tab key is the last thing I  
> think
> about for navigation.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Anne
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Does tabbing around not make VO automatically interact?
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
>> Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>
>
> -- 
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> Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegr

RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

ate that VO
like any other screen reader is not perfect, but Apple has more than proven
VOiceOver is a viable alternative, just as APple has proven the Mac and its
OS are viable alternatives.

On Jun 17, 2010, at 5:27 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Here is where I think one of the biggest issues is though. As a
prospective
> Mac user, from the demos and manuals, there seem to be an awful lot of
> different and often complex keystrokes to do things. I'm not clear if one
> needs all of them or if people doing the demos are making things more
> complex than needed, or just not explaining why things are the way they
are.
> In Windows we can work out which methods to try based on what kind of task
> we are doing. We know that you activate things with either enter or space,
> both single keystrokes. We know there are many ways to move around, but we
> know that we can find most things by exploring menus or tabbing. Most
times,
> our screen readers know what we are most likely to want to do and give us
> the option of automating that task, often on a per application basis. They
> can also give us relatively simple keystrokes on a per application basis
to
> do tasks specific to that application. 
> 
> It comes across that with a Mac you have at least three different way to
> select things and that only one of them will work in a given situation. It
> comes across that you have to navigate relatively complex screens with
> multi-finger keystrokes to do what you can often do with one single
> keystroke in Windows, specific questions in a separate message, and it
comes
> across that there are a lot of situations when a Windows screen reader
would
> automate something that you have to tell VO to do. 
> 
> Be assured, I raise these points not in opposition to converting, I'm here
> because I'm seriously thinking that when this computer goes, the next one
> will be a Mac, but for others thinking of converting, I hope the answers
> people give to these points will reassure them and hopefully be reflected
in
> some sort of searchable tips and tricks kind of website. I very much want
to
> know what's possible, not seem in opposition. 
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:31 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically
> 
> Yeah, I fell into that trap early on with VO coming from Jaws.  Now, when
I
> pick up my windows laptop, I have to remind myself where the tab key is
and
> not to grab the control and windows key with the arrows.  It's very
> disorienting some times.  LOL!
> On Jun 16, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Anne Robertson wrote:
> 
>> Hello Dave,
>> 
>> You can set VO to interact automatically when you tab to a field where
> this is appropriate, but tabbing isn't always the best way to navigate
with
> VO. Many ex-JAWS users get themselves into a muddle by tabbing everywhere.
> As a very very long-term Mac user, the tab key is the last thing I think
> about for navigation.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Does tabbing around not make VO automatically interact?
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> 
> 
> -- 
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RE: Prospective Mac User

[Dave Taylor]

What awful keystrokes! I am not 50 fingered lol! By the way, complex
keystrokes is also an issue on Windows, which is why I think the trackpad is
so exciting!


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John André Netland
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:56 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User

Great, you might also play with the "watch at hot spot" feature in VO. It
might work with some IM services, but not with others.

•Navigate to the line where the most recent incoming message is shown.
•Press control-option-shift-1 or another number to set the Hot Spot.
•Press control-option-command-shift-1 or the number you selected to activate
the "watch hot spot" feature.
•In some cases, VO will announce the incoming message, since the text will
change at the specified location.
•If the changes is not automatically spoken, you might press
control-option-1 or the number you selected, and see what happens.

Remember, this will only work in some cases. 

JOhn André



On 17. juni 2010, at 13.26, Chris Moore wrote:

> hey thanks just tried that and it works a treat, shame it does not auto
read out the new message automatically as it arrives, but still a damn sight
better then the way I was using IM before.  Just tried it with Adium, will
try it with ichat/facebook when I get that working again. 
> On 17 Jun 2010, at 11:47, John André Netland wrote:
> 
>> Here is what to do when doing IM with VoiceOver:
>> •Navigate to the text field
>> •Press control-option-shift-F3 to turn cursor tracking off
>> •Navigate to the area for incoming messages
>> •read and answer just by navigating the message area, you don't need to
move to the text field. Just write and press enter.
>> •Remember to press control-option-shift-F3 to turn curser tracking on
before using other apps.
>> 
>> This should work in all IM apps, like text chat in Skype, iChat etc. etc.
>> 
>> Hope this helps someone.
>> 
>> John André
>> 
>> On 17. juni 2010, at 11.47, Chris Moore wrote:
>> 
>>> You can create keyboard command shortcuts to perform basic tasks, such
as launch an application, tell you the current time, tell you how many
unread messages you have and I have assigned a toggle between DOM and Group
mode for when using Safari.  mAC os x has scripting built into the OS which
VoiceOver is part of too as VoiceOver is built into the OS its not an add
on.  Mac OS X has Automator too fa visual way to build many scripts.  I must
admit I have not used scripts yet as I am fairly new to VoiceOver too.
>>> 
>>> Like you I would prefer a better way of using IM, it is a bit clumsy on
the Mac I find.  I wrote to Apple accessibility about iChat, I would like
iChat to automatically speak out a message as it arrives in the active
window so I can easily quickly type a response.  Currently I have to move to
the edit box and type my message and then navigate to the HTML window to
read my replies in a conversation and a lot of the time (Adium) I have to
keep scrolling down the entire history to read my last message received.
Not sure if there is a better way.  I think iChat supports VO +J but as I
was about to try it Safari 5 seemed to mess up my iChat experience.  I have
seen JAWS use MSN Messenger for Windows and it is far superior, if we keep
the pressure up with Apple hopefully iChat will work just as well.  As for
other IM applications, we are best writing to the developers directly.
>>> On 17 Jun 2010, at 10:35, Dave Taylor wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Here are some specific questions on areas where it appears Jaws is
ahead.
>>>> 
>>>> 1. In messenger programs, is it possible to have a set of keystrokes
that
>>>> will read messages and stay within the history area while being able to
type
>>>> in the edit area at the same time and review that typing? I would want
to
>>>> have a feature set like the alt plus numbers and arrows in Jaws
otherwise it
>>>> would be too slow. This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched
to
>>>> NVDA rather than Jaws.
>>>> 
>>>> 2. In Skype, I can get to my contacts or conversations list with single
>>>> keystrokes using ctrl 1 and ctrl 2, and focus most other areas with
similar
>>>> keystrokes. In addition to the feature I just asked for in messenger,
how
>>>> easy is this in Mac?
>>>> 
>>>> 3. This one is not a Mac problem, but is really important to me. I use
>>>> several programs that make tasks so easy in Windows that don't work on
the
>>>> Mac. How much does it cost to buy Windows stand alone these days to run
>>>> those on a Mac? I'm 

RE: Prospective Mac User

[Dave Taylor]

Thanks. That is interesting and I largely agree. It is exactly getting
information quickly and easily and being able to instantly get at areas of
applications that concerns me. Accessibility requires that the users knows
where they are and how to proceed at all times, and VO seems very good at
that to me, but usability is more. It's about how easy it is to do something
and how quickly it can be done. That's important in so many areas of life
that it does need taking into account.

I have a lot of sympathy for the ideas in VO since it makes accessibility
much easier to achieve, but it must be pointed out that reading a screen
through speech works very differently than by sight, and the screen reader
needs to try to tell us the information a sighted person would look at
without us having to navigate to it.. Glancing is effortless, navigating
requires yet more fingerwork. Further, you can assess the whole layout of a
screen visually, you don't have to explore element by element. If you want
to translate a visual way of working into speech, you need to try to
recreate that as best you can. Granted, that is why you get an overview of
the different parts of the screen then interact with the part you want, that
is a good concept in many ways, and you can also learn where things are.

Oh yes, one other thing that Jaws is unbeatable at. I need different
settings for different websites. Nothing else does that. For instance, I can
hide inline frames, stop only some sites from refreshing automatically when
that's inconvenient, have higher verbosity on some and lower on others etc.
I don't need to change that every time I visit!

Cheers
Dave
  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:01 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User

I found this interesting thread regarding scripting for VO:

http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/msg09201.html

On 17 Jun 2010, at 10:49, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> You can have vo scripts but i don't find them necessary.
> 
> As for curser tracking you can do that in vo. just press vo shift f3 to
toggle that and it will remember where you are in a lot of apps at once if
that is off. Toggle it back on  and you should  be good to go. and saving
locations you can use hot spots that can defying what you want to do but
they are not app specific sadly.
> 
> Sorry I could not answer everything.
> 
> Take care.
> 
> S
> On Jun 17, 2010, at 2:35 AM, Dave Taylor wrote:
> 
>> Here are some specific questions on areas where it appears Jaws is ahead.
>> 
>> 1. In messenger programs, is it possible to have a set of keystrokes that
>> will read messages and stay within the history area while being able to
type
>> in the edit area at the same time and review that typing? I would want to
>> have a feature set like the alt plus numbers and arrows in Jaws otherwise
it
>> would be too slow. This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched to
>> NVDA rather than Jaws.
>> 
>> 2. In Skype, I can get to my contacts or conversations list with single
>> keystrokes using ctrl 1 and ctrl 2, and focus most other areas with
similar
>> keystrokes. In addition to the feature I just asked for in messenger, how
>> easy is this in Mac?
>> 
>> 3. This one is not a Mac problem, but is really important to me. I use
>> several programs that make tasks so easy in Windows that don't work on
the
>> Mac. How much does it cost to buy Windows stand alone these days to run
>> those on a Mac? I'm thinking of SpeakOn which makes internet radio,
podcasts
>> and all sorts of other audio things much easier and gives you fantastic
>> control over speed etc, Kurzweil 1000 which though expensive automates so
>> much of my mail reading by simply scanning and automatically reading
things
>> while I'm doing things, and programs that don't even exist for Mac like
the
>> VIP communicator for the Accessible Friends Network and VIP Conduit.
>> 
>> It is also possible with Jaws for people to write scripts to do things
and
>> share them. Is this possible for VO?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman
>> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User
>> 
>> What do you feel Freedom Sciencefiction and jaws provide that VO lacks?
>> I'm just curious.
>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
>> 
>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:25 PM, c

RE: Prospective Mac User

[Dave Taylor]

This is what Mac demos never tell us though, and Mac users seem similar.
Navigating to between two areas could either be really simple or really
straightforward, depending whereabouts on the screen they are, looks like VO
is a recipe for RSI to me! Please discuss!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:47 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User

You can create keyboard command shortcuts to perform basic tasks, such as
launch an application, tell you the current time, tell you how many unread
messages you have and I have assigned a toggle between DOM and Group mode
for when using Safari.  mAC os x has scripting built into the OS which
VoiceOver is part of too as VoiceOver is built into the OS its not an add
on.  Mac OS X has Automator too fa visual way to build many scripts.  I must
admit I have not used scripts yet as I am fairly new to VoiceOver too.

Like you I would prefer a better way of using IM, it is a bit clumsy on the
Mac I find.  I wrote to Apple accessibility about iChat, I would like iChat
to automatically speak out a message as it arrives in the active window so I
can easily quickly type a response.  Currently I have to move to the edit
box and type my message and then navigate to the HTML window to read my
replies in a conversation and a lot of the time (Adium) I have to keep
scrolling down the entire history to read my last message received.  Not
sure if there is a better way.  I think iChat supports VO +J but as I was
about to try it Safari 5 seemed to mess up my iChat experience.  I have seen
JAWS use MSN Messenger for Windows and it is far superior, if we keep the
pressure up with Apple hopefully iChat will work just as well.  As for other
IM applications, we are best writing to the developers directly.
On 17 Jun 2010, at 10:35, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Here are some specific questions on areas where it appears Jaws is ahead.
> 
> 1. In messenger programs, is it possible to have a set of keystrokes that
> will read messages and stay within the history area while being able to
type
> in the edit area at the same time and review that typing? I would want to
> have a feature set like the alt plus numbers and arrows in Jaws otherwise
it
> would be too slow. This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched to
> NVDA rather than Jaws.
> 
> 2. In Skype, I can get to my contacts or conversations list with single
> keystrokes using ctrl 1 and ctrl 2, and focus most other areas with
similar
> keystrokes. In addition to the feature I just asked for in messenger, how
> easy is this in Mac?
> 
> 3. This one is not a Mac problem, but is really important to me. I use
> several programs that make tasks so easy in Windows that don't work on the
> Mac. How much does it cost to buy Windows stand alone these days to run
> those on a Mac? I'm thinking of SpeakOn which makes internet radio,
podcasts
> and all sorts of other audio things much easier and gives you fantastic
> control over speed etc, Kurzweil 1000 which though expensive automates so
> much of my mail reading by simply scanning and automatically reading
things
> while I'm doing things, and programs that don't even exist for Mac like
the
> VIP communicator for the Accessible Friends Network and VIP Conduit.
> 
> It is also possible with Jaws for people to write scripts to do things and
> share them. Is this possible for VO?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User
> 
> What do you feel Freedom Sciencefiction and jaws provide that VO lacks?
> I'm just curious.
> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
> 
> On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:25 PM, cathyk wrote:
> 
>> Hi Kolby,
>> I bought my MacBook Pro about a month ago, and am largely happy.  But
>> there are a few important things to know. 1) VO doesn't work with all
>> programs, notably MS Word.  I was surprised that such an industry
>> standard requires finding workarounds every time you open a document,
>> which isn't ideal when doing collaborative writing projects or comment
>> on hundreds of papers electronically as I do.  Whether this is Apple's
>> or Microsoft's fault, the bottom line is that Word files need to be
>> "translated" through programs like "Preview" (which comes installed)
>> or Pages in iworks, which requires laying out another $50 or $60.
>> Some say the new freeware version of Open Office works better; 

RE: Prospective Mac User

[Dave Taylor]

Here are some specific questions on areas where it appears Jaws is ahead.

1. In messenger programs, is it possible to have a set of keystrokes that
will read messages and stay within the history area while being able to type
in the edit area at the same time and review that typing? I would want to
have a feature set like the alt plus numbers and arrows in Jaws otherwise it
would be too slow. This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched to
NVDA rather than Jaws.

2. In Skype, I can get to my contacts or conversations list with single
keystrokes using ctrl 1 and ctrl 2, and focus most other areas with similar
keystrokes. In addition to the feature I just asked for in messenger, how
easy is this in Mac?

3. This one is not a Mac problem, but is really important to me. I use
several programs that make tasks so easy in Windows that don't work on the
Mac. How much does it cost to buy Windows stand alone these days to run
those on a Mac? I'm thinking of SpeakOn which makes internet radio, podcasts
and all sorts of other audio things much easier and gives you fantastic
control over speed etc, Kurzweil 1000 which though expensive automates so
much of my mail reading by simply scanning and automatically reading things
while I'm doing things, and programs that don't even exist for Mac like the
VIP communicator for the Accessible Friends Network and VIP Conduit.

It is also possible with Jaws for people to write scripts to do things and
share them. Is this possible for VO?



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Prospective Mac User

What do you feel Freedom Sciencefiction and jaws provide that VO lacks?
I'm just curious.
"Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs

On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:25 PM, cathyk wrote:

> Hi Kolby,
> I bought my MacBook Pro about a month ago, and am largely happy.  But
> there are a few important things to know. 1) VO doesn't work with all
> programs, notably MS Word.  I was surprised that such an industry
> standard requires finding workarounds every time you open a document,
> which isn't ideal when doing collaborative writing projects or comment
> on hundreds of papers electronically as I do.  Whether this is Apple's
> or Microsoft's fault, the bottom line is that Word files need to be
> "translated" through programs like "Preview" (which comes installed)
> or Pages in iworks, which requires laying out another $50 or $60.
> Some say the new freeware version of Open Office works better; I
> haven't tried, so I'd love to hear from someone who writes and edits a
> lot.  Even if it works better than the paid version, I suspect other
> features get lost - alas, you get what you pay for.  2) the
> portability features seem terrific but you should consider which
> environments you'll be wanting to access because at least for now the
> Mac market is quite small in comparison to PCs, so the number of
> computers where your USB settings will work is fairly small.  3) VO is
> very good, but it isn't JAWS or ZoomText.  Many of us dream of a day
> when we can use out-of-the-box technology just like everyone else;
> we're much, much closer, but that day isn't there yet.  4) The user
> support is limited for VO.  This discussion list is excellent, but I
> still have a growing list of questions that people can't answer and
> that are impossible to look up.  Even the in-depth manual isn't *that*
> in-depth.  This means there's a kind of pioneer spirit to the whole
> thing, with people figuring out this and that just like they would
> sort out how to repair a wagon wheel a thousand miles from
> civilization.  That's exciting, hip, and creative, but sometimes you
> just want a simple answer to a nagging problem that's still beyond
> even the best macvisionaries.  All that said, I'm enjoying my new
> machine.
> Best,
> Cathyk
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 16, 2:10 pm, Pete Nalda  wrote:
>> First off, don't worry about what may be going on at the moment, with the
update.  Mac OS is still so much easier in general to deal with than windows
and its various screen readers.  This may not apply for everyone on here but
to me the choice was economical.  Every time there was a new version of
windows, I'd have to purchase a new version ("upgrade") of ZoomText.  I got
tired of playing that game. Every time I buy a new version of Mac OSX, I get
a new version of Zoom *and* VoiceOver :)
>> 
>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Kolby Garrison wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> I am considering purchasing a mac book pro, and I wanted to know what
satisfied mac users have to say about the pros and cons of mac and windows.
I have been researching voiceover, and it sounds like a very stable screen
reading solution. I like the portable preferences feature, and from what I
have read thus far I do believe that a mac book pro will be purc

RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

Here is where I think one of the biggest issues is though. As a prospective
Mac user, from the demos and manuals, there seem to be an awful lot of
different and often complex keystrokes to do things. I'm not clear if one
needs all of them or if people doing the demos are making things more
complex than needed, or just not explaining why things are the way they are.
In Windows we can work out which methods to try based on what kind of task
we are doing. We know that you activate things with either enter or space,
both single keystrokes. We know there are many ways to move around, but we
know that we can find most things by exploring menus or tabbing. Most times,
our screen readers know what we are most likely to want to do and give us
the option of automating that task, often on a per application basis. They
can also give us relatively simple keystrokes on a per application basis to
do tasks specific to that application. 

It comes across that with a Mac you have at least three different way to
select things and that only one of them will work in a given situation. It
comes across that you have to navigate relatively complex screens with
multi-finger keystrokes to do what you can often do with one single
keystroke in Windows, specific questions in a separate message, and it comes
across that there are a lot of situations when a Windows screen reader would
automate something that you have to tell VO to do. 

Be assured, I raise these points not in opposition to converting, I'm here
because I'm seriously thinking that when this computer goes, the next one
will be a Mac, but for others thinking of converting, I hope the answers
people give to these points will reassure them and hopefully be reflected in
some sort of searchable tips and tricks kind of website. I very much want to
know what's possible, not seem in opposition. 

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:31 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

Yeah, I fell into that trap early on with VO coming from Jaws.  Now, when I
pick up my windows laptop, I have to remind myself where the tab key is and
not to grab the control and windows key with the arrows.  It's very
disorienting some times.  LOL!
On Jun 16, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Anne Robertson wrote:

> Hello Dave,
> 
> You can set VO to interact automatically when you tab to a field where
this is appropriate, but tabbing isn't always the best way to navigate with
VO. Many ex-JAWS users get themselves into a muddle by tabbing everywhere.
As a very very long-term Mac user, the tab key is the last thing I think
about for navigation.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Does tabbing around not make VO automatically interact?
> 
> -- 
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RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

Tabbing around can be just as inefficient in Windows, as you say horses for
courses. The more fields one can access with a couple of keystrokes, the
better in general!


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

Hello Dave,

You can set VO to interact automatically when you tab to a field where this
is appropriate, but tabbing isn't always the best way to navigate with VO.
Many ex-JAWS users get themselves into a muddle by tabbing everywhere. As a
very very long-term Mac user, the tab key is the last thing I think about
for navigation.

Cheers,

Anne


On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Does tabbing around not make VO automatically interact?

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RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

Hi

Does tabbing around not make VO automatically interact?


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Zimba
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

regarding the change in the download window in Safari, this has in fact been
changed.  I think a different ui control is being used to display the
information.  

there is probably a way to get vo to automatically interract, but I'm not
sure I would want that behavior...  gotta think o that.

Joel

On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:36 AM, Laura M wrote:

> Yeah, I can confirm this, too. I agree that it's far more likely to be
> a bug or an oversight, because it's not the only thing that needs
> interaction now that didn't before. The downloads list in Safari won't
> read the status anymore unless you interact. I can't see any reason
> for changing that.
> 
> On Jun 16, 1:21 pm, "M. Taylor"  wrote:
>> Thank you for confirming this, Kevin.  I was beginning to think it had
all been in my imagination.  I hardly think of this as a new feature,
however; more like an oversight.  As written in a previous message, later
today, I will turn in a bug report to the development team.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:14 AM, Kevin Mattingly 
wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> My e-mails used to read automatically too. I guess this is a new
feature.
>> 
>>> Kev
>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> 
 Control option j takes you to the preview pane and the message is then
read automatically. vo j back to the message list. But I thought Mark said
he didn't use the preview pane.
>> 
 mary
>> 
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>> 
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RE: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

[Dave Taylor]

Must admit, from every demo I've heard, the lack of automatic reading of
certain items is one of my concerns about switching over. Whereas a sighted
person can just look anywhere on screen, requiring more keystrokes or
gestures than needed is counterproductive and could even contribute to RSI
in extreme cases. 



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:14 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically

You are quite correct, Mary.  I do not use the preview pane.  I prefer to
have each message open in its own window so I may easily reply to each
individual message in the thread.  When done I simply press Command+W to
close the window or Command+Option+W to close all of the windows in the
thread. While the lack of automatic reading now requires only one quick
gesture on my TrackPad, it is  a feature I that I sorely miss.  Prior to
this removal of the feature, I could simply keep my hands on the keyboard
poised for the Command+W so to close windows, only.  I am definitely going
to turn in a bug report on this one.  I realize that some people may not
like this feature so I am going to suggest something quite radical for
Apple, give us a choice.  (Smile)

Mark

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 15, 2010, at 9:44 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

> Control option j takes you to the preview pane and the message is then
read automatically. vo j back to the message list. But I thought Mark said
he didn't use the preview pane.
> 
> mary
> 
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RE: Victor Stream

[Dave Taylor]

I have a 32 GB card in mine

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ana G
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 6:26 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Victor Stream

The nice thing about a Victor Stream is that you can carry your entire audio

library in one device. It plays specialized files from the NLS BARD site, 
Bookshare, and RFB&D (never tried RFB&D personally). It also plays files 
from commercial sources like audible, standard mp3 and wav, and now (with 
the additional soft pack) iTunes. You can, moreover, listen to text file 
formats like txt, rtf, and html. In theory, you can listen to contracted 
braille files, but I've found that to be a little glitchy in 3.0 and 3.1. 
finally, it's an easy-to-use voice recorder, not as good as, say, the 
Olympus, but the quality of the recording is very nice and serves my own 
needs perfectly. My own unit has lots of different file types on it, 
including music.

Your other questions have been answered. When you insert a blank SD card 
into the Stream, Victor places the folder structure on the card. You then 
insert the card into your Mac's reader, and move files into the right 
folders: music into the music folder, BARD and Bookshare books into the 
digital Talking Books folder, rtf and html files into the text folder, etc.

As far as Audible goes, the only thing you need Windows for is activating 
the device. The Stream itself with SD card inserted needs to be connected to

the PC via USB cable for activation to take place. that's done once per SD 
card. After that, the card is permanently activated unless it becomes 
corrupt and needs to be formatted (i.e., erased), so you can forget all 
about Windows until you need a new card.

I think people are right about the maximum capacity SD being 16 gb, but 
that's an awful lot of listening. I've got an 8 GB card, and I've got 40 
BARD books, 9 audible books, 12 book-length text files, and a couple of 
albums worth of music on mine.

Last, the Stream has some nice bookmarking features that make it useful for 
work. Bookmarks can be points to jump to, audio blocks to listen to, and 
brief voice recordings to refer to. that's all very handy when you're, say, 
reading a manual because you can essentially takes notes and refer to them 
quickly. 

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RE: some more questions about streams and macs

[Dave Taylor]

If I didn't have a stream now, and I liked the way the apple products work,
which I hope I will when I get my hands on them in a few weeks, I would say
a 64 GB iPhone 4G would meet so many needs that a Stream would not be worth
the money. Given that I bought one a couple of years ago when VO wasn't
quite as well established and the Apple products not as good, it was one of
the best purchases I ever made. I'd like to be able to spell filenames and
things like that on it which you can't, and I wish it had internet access
etc. Things have changed a lot in two years!


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 2:56 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: some more questions about streams and macs

This is very helpful. Thanks! :)
Now, I'm just trying to figure out if this device is worth the money. I've
heard both mac and PC users who are blind say that it's the best money they
spent on an AT product, so I'm trying to figure out if I really need it
given the great Apple stuff I have.
"Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs

On Jun 14, 2010, at 4:42 AM, Allison Manzino wrote:

> Hi Olivia,
> 
> I think I can help you. I say think very lightly. I used to be a Stream
user who used Windows, and obviously now have switched to the Mac. Okay let
me see if I remember the first question, to format the SD card, you do it on
the Stream directly. This is accomplished by pressing the 7 key on the
numpad a few times till you hear format SD card. It will ask you to confirm
by pressing the pound key. Once you press it, it will say formatting SD card
and report back when the format is complete. Once that is done, you will
have folders like VR audible, VR music etc. Yes, you can place talking books
on the same card as music. You just place the talking books in to the VR DTB
folder. I'm switching from the stream to the Ipod on my Iphone, I think the
largest card the Stream can handle is a 16GB but I could be wrong. It is
much faster if you were to get a Stream to copy content via the card reader
than the Stream's USB port itself. The Stream shows up on the desktop once
you insert the SD card in to a card reader. You just hit command O to open
like normal and all the folders are there. I hope this has helped you. The
only thing I'm unsure about is the Audible authorization. That might have to
be done on a Windows machine, since the Audible version on the Mac assumes
you are using Itunes on an Ipod. Well, I hope I have helped. Have a
wonderful day. Thank you for your help on the Iphone, it is much
appreciated.
> 
> Allison
> 
> On Jun 14, 2010, at 1:26 AM, Olivia Norman wrote:
> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> I'm looking at the Q and A's that someone sent earlier today (Thank you,
who ever sent these! :) I have a few more questions, as all of the material
I've seen works on the assumption that people are using windows.
>> 1. How do you formatt the stream's card?  The material discusses various
folders to copy certain kinds of files into.  So, how do I take a blank SD
card and make it work with the stream's folders using a mac?
>> 2. Can I copy music files and put them on the same SD card as talking
books?
>> 3. I'm assuming that the SD card would simply show up in the finder and
content can just be coppied between devices that way.
>> I'm still considering whether or not to drop the money on the stream, or
if I would simply be fine with my iPod, iPad, etc, as they work better with
a mac.  I would welcome people's thoughts and opinions!
>> Thanks!
>> Olivia
>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
>> 
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>> 
> 
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To u

RE: some more questions about streams and macs

[Dave Taylor]

I

As a stream user I would say this. Remember you will also have to pay for a
storage card. That being the case, if I didn't have one I would regard any
Apple device with 16 GB, or even better 32 or the incredible 64 GB of
storage as a better bet. Synchronising will be much easier and I can't think
of anything the stream can do that Apples can't provided you have a Daisy
player app. The media player control knocks spots of anything in any gadget
apart from the Stream, and in some ways is much better. 

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris G
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:47 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: some more questions about streams and macs

Answers below.



On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:26:06 -0700
Olivia Norman  wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> I'm looking at the Q and A's that someone sent earlier today (Thank you,
who ever sent these! :) I have a few more questions, as all of the material
I've seen works on the assumption that people are using windows.
> 1. How do you formatt the stream's card?  The material discusses various
folders to copy certain kinds of files into.  So, how do I take a blank SD
card and make it work with the stream's folders using a mac?


You insert the card into the stream and it creates the folders for you.

>
2. Can I copy music files and put them on the same SD card as talking
books?


Yes, you put them in the $VRMusic folder.
> 3. I'm assuming that the SD card would simply show up in the finder and
content can just be coppied between devices that way.

This is correct.  You would see the streams folders through the finder.


> I'm still considering whether or not to drop the money on the stream, or
if I would simply be fine with my iPod, iPad, etc, as they work better with
a mac.  I would welcome people's thoughts and opinions!
> Thanks!
> Olivia
> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
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-- 
Chris G 

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RE: IPOD vo manual.

[Dave Taylor]

www.apple.com/accessibility then select by product. You can view a user
guide which include  VO for each one. I've certainly looked at the Snow
Leopard and iPhone ones!


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:35 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: IPOD vo manual.

Hi Folks,

 Is there a manual or how to use VO correctly on the IPOD touch?

And for that matter  a vo user guide or key press / manual for the Snow
leopard vo systems?

 I'm wanting to get better use out of my mbp and Ipod 

Thanks 

Simon f

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RE: Facebook and Safari 5?

[Dave Taylor]

Hi

Well it has been working here. Just tried right now and it's fine.

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 6:55 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Facebook and Safari 5?

Tried several times over the c9urse of the morning.
Best,
Donna
On Jun 10, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Dave Taylor wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Just because your login said that this morning, doesn't mean it is gone.
It
> may have been down for a while. You should always try again later,
> especially with Facebook, and you'll often find your problem has gone lol!
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:51 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Facebook and Safari 5?
> 
> I hate to tell you this, but this morning, when I tried to log into
> www.m.facebook.com, it was gone.
> Take care,
> Donna
> On Jun 10, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:
> 
>> hello;  I know there are some people on this list that have had success
> using the regular or lite version of faceboo, but the only one i can use
> reliably is the mobile version.  and this limits me because i can't use
> their aps or go to chat sessions.  I too am waiting for the next update
> before going to safari five.  good luck, max
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Olivia Norman wrote:
>> 
>>> I can't get FB to work with safari five, but then again, I didn't like
it
> much with safari four, either.  I found the main page to be very
cluttered,
> and not very accessible.  How did you have success navigating it, eric?
>>> Olivia
>>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
>>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:49 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi, I've not had any problems with fb under safari four.  If anything
> the experience should be richer under safari 5, but I too have been scared
> off by the problems.  I'm hoping they come out with a 5.1 or 5.01 sometime
> in the next few weeks that solves some issues.
>>>> 
>>>> By the way, how do the nightly builds of webkit stack up against safari
> 5?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> Erik Burggraaf
>>>> User support consultant,
>>>> Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
>>>> Toll-free: 888-255-5194
>>>> 
>>>> On 2010-06-10, at 10:01 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've held off up on upgrading to Safari 5 because of all the problems
> people seem to be having.  But I'm wondering if anyone has tried using
> Facebook?  I'm getting really tired of having to switch to my PC every
time
> I want to post to Facebook.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
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> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>

RE: Facebook and Safari 5?

[Dave Taylor]

Hi

Just because your login said that this morning, doesn't mean it is gone. It
may have been down for a while. You should always try again later,
especially with Facebook, and you'll often find your problem has gone lol!

Cheers
Dave


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Facebook and Safari 5?

I hate to tell you this, but this morning, when I tried to log into
www.m.facebook.com, it was gone.
Take care,
Donna
On Jun 10, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:

> hello;  I know there are some people on this list that have had success
using the regular or lite version of faceboo, but the only one i can use
reliably is the mobile version.  and this limits me because i can't use
their aps or go to chat sessions.  I too am waiting for the next update
before going to safari five.  good luck, max
> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Olivia Norman wrote:
> 
>> I can't get FB to work with safari five, but then again, I didn't like it
much with safari four, either.  I found the main page to be very cluttered,
and not very accessible.  How did you have success navigating it, eric?
>> Olivia
>> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:49 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, I've not had any problems with fb under safari four.  If anything
the experience should be richer under safari 5, but I too have been scared
off by the problems.  I'm hoping they come out with a 5.1 or 5.01 sometime
in the next few weeks that solves some issues.
>>> 
>>> By the way, how do the nightly builds of webkit stack up against safari
5?
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Erik Burggraaf
>>> User support consultant,
>>> Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
>>> Toll-free: 888-255-5194
>>> 
>>> On 2010-06-10, at 10:01 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> 
 Hi all,
 
 I've held off up on upgrading to Safari 5 because of all the problems
people seem to be having.  But I'm wondering if anyone has tried using
Facebook?  I'm getting really tired of having to switch to my PC every time
I want to post to Facebook.
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
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>>> 
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>> 
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