Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

ll never know it all. Not even
> >>> after 30 years of heavy use of the cli will you know it all. That needs
> >>> to be OK, and it should help provide perspective.
> >>> 
> >>> Best,
> >>> 
> >>> Janina
> >>> 
> >>> As she reaches for her coffee amaretto ...
> >>> 
> >>> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >>>> Haha!  Good advice, Simon, which I have practised for some time now.  
> >>>> Now that we are in lockdown, one of the most upsetting thing in the 
> >>>> supermarket were empty wine shelves, no beer for that matter either.  A 
> >>>> consignment from Amazon arrived yesterday to help me with my Linux 
> >>>> studies. Hee hee!  Gosh, this thread’s getting very useful and 
> >>>> entertaining to boot.  I feel a bit bad having started it because it’s 
> >>>> obviously only. marginally mac OS related. The more I learn about Linux 
> >>>> and cli, the more fascinating it becomes. But I also become more and 
> >>>> more anxious about my ability to get to any acceptable level, not that I 
> >>>> want to run before I can walk.  It’s the sheer body of knowledge, the 
> >>>> concepts and terms that I feel I haven’t got a solid grasp of, and 
> >>>> there’s so much more.  So when I was doing the TDSR installation and saw 
> >>>> some of the commands, it made my blood curdle.  I don’t want to give up 
> >>>> without a good fight though.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Take care
> >>>> 
> >>>> Andrew
> >>>>> On 31 Mar 2020, at 08:14, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Hey Andrew,
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> What you’ve done sounds great congrats,
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> And don’t become an alcoholic,
> >>>>> Become a drunkid 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Alcoholics have to go to meetings
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Drunkids just keep drinking.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>>>  >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>  
> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>  
> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>>> 
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:08 AM
> >>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>  
> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>  
> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Hello Janina,
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  
> >>>>> I’m exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time 
> >>>>> I become a mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too. 
> >>>>>  
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
> >>>>> "You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
> >>>>> Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's 
> >>>>> GitHub,
> >>>>> Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues 
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> experience while you are running this old version.”
> >>>>> But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the 
> >>>>> command a brief message flashed across the screen saying updating 
> >>>>> Homebrew, so maybe Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from 
> >>>>> what I’ve been reading on installation instructions that Sierra is 
> >>>>> supported but i

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

es.  But I also become more and more 
> >> anxious about my ability to get to any acceptable level, not that I want 
> >> to run before I can walk.  It’s the sheer body of knowledge, the concepts 
> >> and terms that I feel I haven’t got a solid grasp of, and there’s so much 
> >> more.  So when I was doing the TDSR installation and saw some of the 
> >> commands, it made my blood curdle.  I don’t want to give up without a good 
> >> fight though.
> >> 
> >> Take care
> >> 
> >> Andrew
> >>> On 31 Mar 2020, at 08:14, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hey Andrew,
> >>> 
> >>> What you’ve done sounds great congrats,
> >>> 
> >>> And don’t become an alcoholic,
> >>> Become a drunkid 
> >>> 
> >>> Alcoholics have to go to meetings
> >>> 
> >>> Drunkids just keep drinking.
> >>> 
> >>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> 
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:08 AM
> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> >>> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> >>> 
> >>> Hello Janina,
> >>> 
> >>> I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  
> >>> I’m exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I 
> >>> become a mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too. 
> >>>  
> >>> 
> >>> I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
> >>> "You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
> >>> Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's 
> >>> GitHub,
> >>> Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues 
> >>> you
> >>> experience while you are running this old version.”
> >>> But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the 
> >>> command a brief message flashed across the screen saying updating 
> >>> Homebrew, so maybe Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what 
> >>> I’ve been reading on installation instructions that Sierra is supported 
> >>> but it says as best as possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit 
> >>> MacOs.  The rest of the installation went well and when I issued the 
> >>> final command ~/tdsr/tdsr I heard the familiar Daniel voice.  How 
> >>> fabulous!
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, 
> >>> so I will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, 
> >>> talking of root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether 
> >>> I’ve given myself sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or 
> >>> do I have to repeat the installation?  The instructions for linux tell me 
> >>> to install speech dispatcher and Python3. Would I use the command. 
> >>> Install for them both and is speech dispatcher for installation purposes 
> >>> spelt as two words or one or with a hyphen?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help.  I’m a bit anxious 
> >>> having imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if 
> >>> it’s too much.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in 
> >>> MacOS.  Oh, one more thing.  I tried to change the shell in Terminal from 
> >>> Bash to Zsh with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take.  Is it because I’m 
> >>> still running this Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina 
> >>> machine.
> >>> 
> >>> Andrew
> >>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi Again, Andrew:
> >>> 
> >>> Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have ste

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

And a very good morning to you too, Janina, from the UK.  You must be up early.

Thank you for your encouragement.  I know, yes, I’m impatient and thinking that 
I’ve lived for more than 6 decades, I am still the same.  Ha!  Some things 
don’t change.  I won’t give up in a hurry.  It took me 7 years of hard work to 
learn modern Greek properly to the level at which I can follow radio & tv 
without a problem and read literature, newspapers, websites in Greek and feel 
comfortable.  So I will give Linux and cli a good shot.

I’ve just done a quick research on what it means uncomment something ; you used 
this term in the most recent response to me.  I think I’ve found the answer.  
It’s to do with config files where you either insert a number sign at start of 
line so that it is ignored, or remove the number sign so that it becomes 
visible to the computer.  Is that right?  What editor would you use to edit 
such files both in Terminal and in cli in Linux?  Are such editors already 
there, or are they to be installed?

Anyway, by the sound of it you had a hell of a busy day yesterday.  Hope you 
had rested and that your groceries had arrived.

Well, I’m just researching how to; enable Speakup in the console on Linux and 
how to make it play with Orca.  Somebody elsewhere mentioned it was possible 
and spoke of having to do something with pulseaudio.

Have a good day.

Andrew
> On 31 Mar 2020, at 10:30, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey, Andrew. Good morning of another day to you from the U.S. East
> Coast!
> 
> Is this thread Mac related? Yeah, we've mentioned Linux a lot, but the
> truth is that almost all of what we've talked about applies to the Mac
> Terminal. And, I think I've tried to point out where things in the
> Terminal are the same, and where they're different. I know this list
> doesn't to have a lot of discussion about the terminal, but I promise
> you it's the power environment that Apple engineers use heavily.
> 
> A quick example:
> 
> The Mac utility for managing disks has both a graphical interface and a
> cli interface. We've had lots of discussion here about Disk Utility, but
> very little about diskutil. Guess which one can do more. And, should you
> need one of those functions the graphical tool doesn't provide, your
> only option is the cli.
> 
> Just to be complete, Linux doesn't have a diskutil, though it certainly
> has tools for managing disks at that level. Apple's disk management is
> quite sophisticated.
> 
> So, don't give up! You've just started, and you're learning fast. This
> should become fairly soon as you learn more.
> 
> Lastly, get used to the idea that you'll never know it all. Not even
> after 30 years of heavy use of the cli will you know it all. That needs
> to be OK, and it should help provide perspective.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> As she reaches for her coffee amaretto ...
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Haha!  Good advice, Simon, which I have practised for some time now.  Now 
>> that we are in lockdown, one of the most upsetting thing in the supermarket 
>> were empty wine shelves, no beer for that matter either.  A consignment from 
>> Amazon arrived yesterday to help me with my Linux studies. Hee hee!  Gosh, 
>> this thread’s getting very useful and entertaining to boot.  I feel a bit 
>> bad having started it because it’s obviously only. marginally mac OS 
>> related. The more I learn about Linux and cli, the more fascinating it 
>> becomes.  But I also become more and more anxious about my ability to get to 
>> any acceptable level, not that I want to run before I can walk.  It’s the 
>> sheer body of knowledge, the concepts and terms that I feel I haven’t got a 
>> solid grasp of, and there’s so much more.  So when I was doing the TDSR 
>> installation and saw some of the commands, it made my blood curdle.  I don’t 
>> want to give up without a good fight though.
>> 
>> Take care
>> 
>> Andrew
>>> On 31 Mar 2020, at 08:14, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey Andrew,
>>> 
>>> What you’ve done sounds great congrats,
>>> 
>>> And don’t become an alcoholic,
>>> Become a drunkid 
>>> 
>>> Alcoholics have to go to meetings
>>> 
>>> Drunkids just keep drinking.
>>> 
>>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:08 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.c

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

lol, Simon!

I shudder sometimes when I think of we used to do as minors to get
tipsy. Ever heard of adding lemon extract to soda? Or to what we hear in
the states bottle up as "Lemon Sour?" The extract is for baking, but it
comes in small bottles in the grocery store. It's also 80% or 90%
alcohol.

Talk about vile!

Simon, I'm just glad you weren't driving! 

Janina

Simon A Fogarty writes:
> Janina,
> 
> It was some seriously bad shit we drunk,
> 
>  Thank god I was already blind,
> 
> Otherwise it might have done the damage 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 2:12 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> 
> Oh, Simon, Simon !!
> Perhaps coffee brew the next time? At least it isn't as likely ...
> 
> Simon A Fogarty writes:
> > Well the last time I had home brew
> > It made me really really ill,
> > 
> >  I was throwing up for hours.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> >  On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
> > Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 10:47 PM
> > To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> > Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> > 
> > Hi!
> > What does homebrew actually do?
> > Is this a library or what?
> > Thanks.
> > /A
> > 
> > > 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> > > :
> > > 
> > > Janina,
> > > 
> > > I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> > > Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python 
> > > is that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too 
> > > green around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in 
> > > case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
> > > 
> > > Andrew
> > >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > >>  wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of 
> > >> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an 
> > >> upgrade of python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> > >> 
> > >> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the 
> > >> terminal, as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> > >> 
> > >> Best,
> > >> 
> > >> Janina
> > >> 
> > >> Greg Wocher writes:
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> > >>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> > >>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>
> > >>> 
> > >>> Greg Wocher
> > >>> 
> > >>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> > >>>>  wrote:
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine 
> > >>>> the window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a 
> > >>>> list of files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file 
> > >>>> and maybe even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if 
> > >>>> I were to use the -l flag, which would produce long information about 
> > >>>> each item.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut 
> > >>>> techniques the author teaches is to start typing the name of a 
> > >>>> directory to which one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which 
> > >>>> would result in Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of 
> > >>>> available names if there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem 
> > >>>> to work.  When I press the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this 
> > >>>> technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on this?
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> andrew
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > >>>> Visionaries list.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> > >>>> or if you feel tha

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hey, Andrew. Good morning of another day to you from the U.S. East
Coast!

Is this thread Mac related? Yeah, we've mentioned Linux a lot, but the
truth is that almost all of what we've talked about applies to the Mac
Terminal. And, I think I've tried to point out where things in the
Terminal are the same, and where they're different. I know this list
doesn't to have a lot of discussion about the terminal, but I promise
you it's the power environment that Apple engineers use heavily.

A quick example:

The Mac utility for managing disks has both a graphical interface and a
cli interface. We've had lots of discussion here about Disk Utility, but
very little about diskutil. Guess which one can do more. And, should you
need one of those functions the graphical tool doesn't provide, your
only option is the cli.

Just to be complete, Linux doesn't have a diskutil, though it certainly
has tools for managing disks at that level. Apple's disk management is
quite sophisticated.

So, don't give up! You've just started, and you're learning fast. This
should become fairly soon as you learn more.

Lastly, get used to the idea that you'll never know it all. Not even
after 30 years of heavy use of the cli will you know it all. That needs
to be OK, and it should help provide perspective.

Best,

Janina

As she reaches for her coffee amaretto ...

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Haha!  Good advice, Simon, which I have practised for some time now.  Now 
> that we are in lockdown, one of the most upsetting thing in the supermarket 
> were empty wine shelves, no beer for that matter either.  A consignment from 
> Amazon arrived yesterday to help me with my Linux studies. Hee hee!  Gosh, 
> this thread’s getting very useful and entertaining to boot.  I feel a bit bad 
> having started it because it’s obviously only. marginally mac OS related.  
> The more I learn about Linux and cli, the more fascinating it becomes.  But I 
> also become more and more anxious about my ability to get to any acceptable 
> level, not that I want to run before I can walk.  It’s the sheer body of 
> knowledge, the concepts and terms that I feel I haven’t got a solid grasp of, 
> and there’s so much more.  So when I was doing the TDSR installation and saw 
> some of the commands, it made my blood curdle.  I don’t want to give up 
> without a good fight though.
> 
> Take care
> 
> Andrew
> > On 31 Mar 2020, at 08:14, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> > 
> > Hey Andrew,
> >  
> > What you’ve done sounds great congrats,
> >  
> > And don’t become an alcoholic,
> > Become a drunkid 
> >  
> > Alcoholics have to go to meetings
> >  
> > Drunkids just keep drinking.
> >  
> > From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> > Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:08 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> >  
> > Hello Janina,
> >  
> > I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  I’m 
> > exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I become 
> > a mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too.  
> >  
> > I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
> > "You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
> > Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub,
> > Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you
> > experience while you are running this old version.”
> > But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the 
> > command a brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, 
> > so maybe Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what I’ve been 
> > reading on installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says 
> > as best as possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs.  The rest of 
> > the installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr 
> > I heard the familiar Daniel voice.  How fabulous!
> > 
> > 
> > On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so 
> > I will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, 
> > talking of root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve 
> > given myself sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or do I 
> > have to repeat the installation?  The instructions for linux tell me to 
> > install speech dispatcher and Python3.  Would I use the command. Install 
> > for them both and is speech dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as 
> > two word

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Haha!  Good advice, Simon, which I have practised for some time now.  Now that 
we are in lockdown, one of the most upsetting thing in the supermarket were 
empty wine shelves, no beer for that matter either.  A consignment from Amazon 
arrived yesterday to help me with my Linux studies. Hee hee!  Gosh, this 
thread’s getting very useful and entertaining to boot.  I feel a bit bad having 
started it because it’s obviously only. marginally mac OS related.  The more I 
learn about Linux and cli, the more fascinating it becomes.  But I also become 
more and more anxious about my ability to get to any acceptable level, not that 
I want to run before I can walk.  It’s the sheer body of knowledge, the 
concepts and terms that I feel I haven’t got a solid grasp of, and there’s so 
much more.  So when I was doing the TDSR installation and saw some of the 
commands, it made my blood curdle.  I don’t want to give up without a good 
fight though.

Take care

Andrew
> On 31 Mar 2020, at 08:14, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hey Andrew,
>  
> What you’ve done sounds great congrats,
>  
> And don’t become an alcoholic,
> Become a drunkid 
>  
> Alcoholics have to go to meetings
>  
> Drunkids just keep drinking.
>  
> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:08 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
>  
> Hello Janina,
>  
> I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  I’m 
> exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I become a 
> mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too.  
>  
> I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
> "You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
> Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub,
> Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you
> experience while you are running this old version.”
> But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the command 
> a brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, so maybe 
> Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what I’ve been reading on 
> installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says as best as 
> possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs.  The rest of the 
> installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr I 
> heard the familiar Daniel voice.  How fabulous!
> 
> 
> On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so I 
> will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, talking of 
> root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve given myself 
> sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or do I have to repeat 
> the installation?  The instructions for linux tell me to install speech 
> dispatcher and Python3.  Would I use the command. Install for them both and 
> is speech dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as two words or one or 
> with a hyphen?
> 
> 
> Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help.  I’m a bit anxious having 
> imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if it’s too much.
> 
> 
> Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in MacOS.  
> Oh, one more thing.  I tried to change the shell in Terminal from Bash to Zsh 
> with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take.  Is it because I’m still running this 
> Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina machine.
>  
> Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>  
> Hi Again, Andrew:
> 
> Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
> out of date repository.
> 
> I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
> following pointer:
> 
> https://docs.brew.sh <https://docs.brew.sh/>
> 
> 
> If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
> date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
> seems homebrew brews on github, too!
> 
> My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
> install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!
> 
> Or, it will just do it.
> 
> Let me know how it goes.
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> 
> Hi, Andrew:
> 
> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.
> 
> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an o

RE: A couple Terminal questions

[Simon A Fogarty]

Janina,

It was some seriously bad shit we drunk,

 Thank god I was already blind,

Otherwise it might have done the damage 

-Original Message-
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 2:12 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions

Oh, Simon, Simon !!
Perhaps coffee brew the next time? At least it isn't as likely ...

Simon A Fogarty writes:
> Well the last time I had home brew
> It made me really really ill,
> 
>  I was throwing up for hours.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 10:47 PM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> 
> Hi!
> What does homebrew actually do?
> Is this a library or what?
> Thanks.
> /A
> 
> > 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> > :
> > 
> > Janina,
> > 
> > I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> > Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python 
> > is that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too 
> > green around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in 
> > case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
> > 
> > Andrew
> >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of 
> >> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an 
> >> upgrade of python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> >> 
> >> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the 
> >> terminal, as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Janina
> >> 
> >> Greg Wocher writes:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> >>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> >>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>
> >>> 
> >>> Greg Wocher
> >>> 
> >>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> 
> >>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> >>>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
> >>>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
> >>>> even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to 
> >>>> use the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
> >>>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which 
> >>>> one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in 
> >>>> Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of available names if 
> >>>> there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press 
> >>>> the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  
> >>>> Any thoughts on this?
> >>>> 
> >>>> andrew
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>>> Visionaries list.
> >>>> 
> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can 
> >>>> reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> >>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >>>> ---
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> >>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@goog

RE: A couple Terminal questions

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hey Andrew,

What you’ve done sounds great congrats,

And don’t become an alcoholic,
Become a drunkid

Alcoholics have to go to meetings

Drunkids just keep drinking.

From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2020 7:08 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions

Hello Janina,

I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  I’m 
exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I become a 
mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too. 

I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
"You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub,
Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you
experience while you are running this old version.”
But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the command a 
brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, so maybe 
Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what I’ve been reading on 
installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says as best as 
possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs.  The rest of the 
installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr I heard 
the familiar Daniel voice.  How fabulous!


On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so I 
will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, talking of 
root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve given myself 
sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or do I have to repeat the 
installation?  The instructions for linux tell me to install speech dispatcher 
and Python3.  Would I use the command. Install for them both and is speech 
dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as two words or one or with a hyphen?


Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help.  I’m a bit anxious having 
imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if it’s too much.


Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in MacOS.  
Oh, one more thing.  I tried to change the shell in Terminal from Bash to Zsh 
with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take.  Is it because I’m still running this 
Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina machine.

Andrew
On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Again, Andrew:

Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
out of date repository.

I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
following pointer:

https://docs.brew.sh


If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
seems homebrew brews on github, too!

My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!

Or, it will just do it.

Let me know how it goes.

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:

Hi, Andrew:

Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.

So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
pointer.

I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
don't have a usable homebrew. More soon.

Best,

Janina

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:

Dear Janina,

Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have gone 
ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install Homebrew, I 
got a warning message saying that this installation was old and unsupported and 
whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In the instructions on 
the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor to make sure whether 
the installation has been executed successfully.  I did run the command but 
obtained no feedback.  One point I should have clarified is that I have 
installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this particular machine.  I’m 
still in Sierra on this laptop because of the Greek voice which I need and 
which was broken in High Sierra and has not been fixed by Apple since although 
I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years.  So I(i have to keep this computer 
behind.  I might try to install Homebrew on Catalina later.

Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on my 
mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest of the 
instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to break 
anything.  

Andrew

On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi, Andrew:

I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
your Mac. It's just useful to have 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Oh, Simon, Simon !!
Perhaps coffee brew the next time? At least it isn't as likely ...

Simon A Fogarty writes:
> Well the last time I had home brew 
> It made me really really ill,
> 
>  I was throwing up for hours.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 10:47 PM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions
> 
> Hi!
> What does homebrew actually do?
> Is this a library or what?
> Thanks.
> /A
> 
> > 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> > :
> > 
> > Janina,
> > 
> > I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> > Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python 
> > is that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too 
> > green around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in 
> > case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
> > 
> > Andrew
> >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of 
> >> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade 
> >> of python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> >> 
> >> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the 
> >> terminal, as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Janina
> >> 
> >> Greg Wocher writes:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> >>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> >>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>
> >>> 
> >>> Greg Wocher
> >>> 
> >>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> 
> >>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> >>>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
> >>>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
> >>>> even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to 
> >>>> use the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
> >>>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which 
> >>>> one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in 
> >>>> Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of available names if 
> >>>> there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press 
> >>>> the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  
> >>>> Any thoughts on this?
> >>>> 
> >>>> andrew
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>>> Visionaries list.
> >>>> 
> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> >>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> >>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >>>> ---
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> >>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> The following information is important for

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

Wow. You are moving forward quickly, Andrew. Congratulations!

Quick Comment: I wouldn't worry about TDSR on Linux, unless you want to
compare and contrast between it and Speakup and/or Fenrir. Of course, if
you prefer it to those other two, by all means add it to your Linux!

It also sounds like your homebew got updated. It will do that when
necessary, and as you learned, it's capable of handling situations where
there are issues to clean up. Out of curiosity I ran 'brew doctor' on my
Airbook and got a list of things I should deal with at some point!

As for sudo ...

It's pretty similar to Linux. As root you run visudo and look near the
bottom for a comment that says something about granting any user that's
a member of wheel access, then look at the two statements below that and
uncomment those if you want your ordinary user to be able to do those
things.

Save and exit visudo.

Then, you need to add your ordinary user to the wheel group. On Linux
you edit /etc/group to do that, find the wheel line, go to the end, add
a comma followed by your ordinary user login.

On Mac it's a little different. I found a page of instructions here:

https://superuser.com/q/214004


With this done you can run commands as your ordinary user:

sudo 

And, if you forget to put the sudo up front--which we all forget that
eventually, don't retype the entire command, instead do:

sudo !!

To actually become super-user, i.e. root: do:

sudo -i

OK. That's it for today. I'm fried. I've been up some 21 hours. I'm
waiting for a grocery delivery. Once they come and the groceries are put
away, I'm off to b$

Best,

Janina

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hello Janina,
> 
> I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  I’m 
> exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I become a 
> mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too.  
> 
> I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
> "You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
> Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub,
> Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you
> experience while you are running this old version.”
> But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the command 
> a brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, so maybe 
> Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what I’ve been reading on 
> installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says as best as 
> possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs.  The rest of the 
> installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr I 
> heard the familiar Daniel voice.  How fabulous!
> 
> On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so I 
> will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, talking of 
> root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve given myself 
> sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or do I have to repeat 
> the installation?  The instructions for linux tell me to install speech 
> dispatcher and Python3.  Would I use the command. Install for them both and 
> is speech dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as two words or one or 
> with a hyphen?
> 
> Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help.  I’m a bit anxious having 
> imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if it’s too much.
> 
> Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in MacOS.  
> Oh, one more thing.  I tried to change the shell in Terminal from Bash to Zsh 
> with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take.  Is it because I’m still running this 
> Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina machine.
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Again, Andrew:
> > 
> > Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
> > out of date repository.
> > 
> > I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
> > following pointer:
> > 
> > https://docs.brew.sh
> > 
> > 
> > If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
> > date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
> > seems homebrew brews on github, too!
> > 
> > My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
> > install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!
> > 
> > Or, it will just do it.
> > 
> > Let me know how it goes.
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >> Hi, Andrew:
> >> 
> >> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
> >> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.
> >> 
> >> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
> >> pointer.
> >> 
> >> I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
> 

RE: A couple Terminal questions

[Simon A Fogarty]

Well the last time I had home brew 
It made me really really ill,

 I was throwing up for hours.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 10:47 PM
To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: A couple Terminal questions

Hi!
What does homebrew actually do?
Is this a library or what?
Thanks.
/A

> 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Janina,
> 
> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python 
> is that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too 
> green around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in 
> case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
> 
> Andrew
>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of 
>> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade 
>> of python3, and that is taking quite some time.
>> 
>> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the 
>> terminal, as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Greg Wocher writes:
>>> Hello,
>>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
>>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
>>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr <https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr>
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>>>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>>>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
>>>> even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use 
>>>> the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>>>> 
>>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
>>>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
>>>> wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
>>>> completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
>>>> should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the 
>>>> tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
>>>> thoughts on this?
>>>> 
>>>> andrew
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be se

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hello Janina,

I think I’ve done it.  I’ve made TDSR talk with Daniel, British voice.  I’m 
exhausted and my nerves are jangling but I’m so glad.  by the time I become a 
mediocre cli user, I shall probably become an alcoholic too.  

I got the same warning message I’m pasting just underneath:
"You will encounter build failures with some formulae.
Please create pull requests instead of asking for help on Homebrew's GitHub,
Discourse, Twitter or IRC. You are responsible for resolving any issues you
experience while you are running this old version.”
But then I proceeded to reinstall python and as soon as I issued the command a 
brief message flashed across the screen saying updating Homebrew, so maybe 
Homebrew has been updated.  It would appear from what I’ve been reading on 
installation instructions that Sierra is supported but it says as best as 
possible. I guess Sierra was the first 64bit MacOs.  The rest of the 
installation went well and when I issued the final command ~/tdsr/tdsr I heard 
the familiar Daniel voice.  How fabulous!

On the same page, I’ve found instructions for installing TDSR on Linux, so I 
will try to do it too.  Should I be doing it as root?  By the way, talking of 
root, when I’m logged in as user, how do i find out whether I’ve given myself 
sudo privileges or not?  If not, can I still do it, or do I have to repeat the 
installation?  The instructions for linux tell me to install speech dispatcher 
and Python3.  Would I use the command. Install for them both and is speech 
dispatcher for installation purposes spelt as two words or one or with a hyphen?

Thank you very much again, Janina, for your help.  I’m a bit anxious having 
imposed on you and your time so do feel free to let me know if it’s too much.

Well, back to Joe Kissell’s Tutorial on Mastering the Command line in MacOS.  
Oh, one more thing.  I tried to change the shell in Terminal from Bash to Zsh 
with chsh /bin/zsh but it didn’t take.  Is it because I’m still running this 
Terminal on Sierra/. I’ve succeeded on my Catalina machine.

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:44, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Again, Andrew:
> 
> Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
> out of date repository.
> 
> I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
> following pointer:
> 
> https://docs.brew.sh
> 
> 
> If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
> date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
> seems homebrew brews on github, too!
> 
> My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
> install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!
> 
> Or, it will just do it.
> 
> Let me know how it goes.
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Hi, Andrew:
>> 
>> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
>> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.
>> 
>> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
>> pointer.
>> 
>> I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
>> don't have a usable homebrew. More soon.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>>> Dear Janina,
>>> 
>>> Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have 
>>> gone ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install 
>>> Homebrew, I got a warning message saying that this installation was old and 
>>> unsupported and whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In 
>>> the instructions on the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor 
>>> to make sure whether the installation has been executed successfully.  I 
>>> did run the command but obtained no feedback.  One point I should have 
>>> clarified is that I have installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this 
>>> particular machine.  I’m still in Sierra on this laptop because of the 
>>> Greek voice which I need and which was broken in High Sierra and has not 
>>> been fixed by Apple since although I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years. 
>>>  So I(i have to keep this computer behind.  I might try to install Homebrew 
>>> on Catalina later.
>>> 
>>> Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on 
>>> my mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest 
>>> of the instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to 
>>> break anything.  
>>> 
>>> Andrew
 On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi, Andrew:
 
 I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
 your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
 
 What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
 your Mac terminal.
 
 Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
 screen 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Again, Andrew:

Yeah, I can't say for sure, but I think I must have steered you to an
out of date repository.

I checked with my installation which runs as expected and got the
following pointer:

https://docs.brew.sh


If you go there and follow the Installation link, you should have up to
date instructions. They're definitely different! Like everyone else,
seems homebrew brews on github, too!

My guess is that it will say something about an out of date or partial
install, and ask to remove or overwrite it. You'll happily say yes!

Or, it will just do it.

Let me know how it goes.

Janina

'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hi, Andrew:
> 
> Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
> you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.
> 
> So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
> pointer.
> 
> I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
> don't have a usable homebrew. More soon.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> > Dear Janina,
> > 
> > Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have 
> > gone ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install 
> > Homebrew, I got a warning message saying that this installation was old and 
> > unsupported and whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In 
> > the instructions on the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor 
> > to make sure whether the installation has been executed successfully.  I 
> > did run the command but obtained no feedback.  One point I should have 
> > clarified is that I have installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this 
> > particular machine.  I’m still in Sierra on this laptop because of the 
> > Greek voice which I need and which was broken in High Sierra and has not 
> > been fixed by Apple since although I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years. 
> >  So I(i have to keep this computer behind.  I might try to install Homebrew 
> > on Catalina later.
> > 
> > Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on 
> > my mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest 
> > of the instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to 
> > break anything.  
> > 
> > Andrew
> > > On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi, Andrew:
> > > 
> > > I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
> > > your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
> > > 
> > > What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
> > > your Mac terminal.
> > > 
> > > Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
> > > screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...
> > > 
> > > I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
> > > several things:
> > > 
> > > * Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.
> > > 
> > > * Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
> > > * ssh session. That's a bad thing.
> > > 
> > > * The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
> > > * thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
> > > * speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
> > > * speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
> > > * there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
> > > * you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
> > > * yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.
> > > 
> > > * Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
> > > * a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
> > > * sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
> > > * foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
> > > * is to shut up immediately.
> > > 
> > > So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
> > > silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
> > > to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
> > > ready for serious use just yet.
> > > 
> > > So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
> > > on installing and using homebrew:
> > > 
> > > https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx
> > > 
> > > NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
> > > application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
> > > though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
> > > you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
> > > conversation.
> > > 
> > > I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
> > > entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
> > > each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

Homebrew should be fine with Sierra. It's possible the link in the page
you got from me was old. That would explain the error you got.

So, I'm thinking good clear instructions, but an old, out of date web
pointer.

I'll check that out for you. Meanwhile, there's no damage done. You just
don't have a usable homebrew. More soon.

Best,

Janina

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Dear Janina,
> 
> Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have 
> gone ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install 
> Homebrew, I got a warning message saying that this installation was old and 
> unsupported and whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In 
> the instructions on the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor 
> to make sure whether the installation has been executed successfully.  I did 
> run the command but obtained no feedback.  One point I should have clarified 
> is that I have installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this particular 
> machine.  I’m still in Sierra on this laptop because of the Greek voice which 
> I need and which was broken in High Sierra and has not been fixed by Apple 
> since although I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years.  So I(i have to keep 
> this computer behind.  I might try to install Homebrew on Catalina later.
> 
> Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on my 
> mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest of 
> the instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to break 
> anything.  
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi, Andrew:
> > 
> > I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
> > your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
> > 
> > What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
> > your Mac terminal.
> > 
> > Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
> > screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...
> > 
> > I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
> > several things:
> > 
> > *   Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.
> > 
> > *   Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
> > *   ssh session. That's a bad thing.
> > 
> > *   The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
> > *   thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
> > *   speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
> > *   speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
> > *   there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
> > *   you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
> > *   yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.
> > 
> > *   Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
> > *   a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
> > *   sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
> > *   foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
> > *   is to shut up immediately.
> > 
> > So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
> > silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
> > to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
> > ready for serious use just yet.
> > 
> > So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
> > on installing and using homebrew:
> > 
> > https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx
> > 
> > NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
> > application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
> > though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
> > you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
> > conversation.
> > 
> > I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
> > entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
> > each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of facts. It's part of
> > why I haven't jumped ship from bash to zsh yet myself. What do I do with
> > all my profile customizations?
> > 
> > Anyway, the explanation of why you want /usr/local in your path ahead of
> > everything else is very spot on. The how to do it in zsh is where I'm
> > stumbling.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > 
> > 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >> Janina,
> >> 
> >> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> >> Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is 
> >> that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green 
> >> around the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess 
> >> up my mac.  Would you agree?  
> >> 
> >> Andrew
> >>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Dear Janina,

Ok, so I have gone ahead and installed Homebrew.  Everything seems to have gone 
ok apart from the fact that after executing the command to install Homebrew, I 
got a warning message saying that this installation was old and unsupported and 
whether I wanted to go ahead.  I ddid go ahead with it.  In the instructions on 
the web page it says to run the command Homebrew doctor to make sure whether 
the installation has been executed successfully.  I did run the command but 
obtained no feedback.  One point I should have clarified is that I have 
installed Homebrew on Mac OS Sierra I run on this particular machine.  I’m 
still in Sierra on this laptop because of the Greek voice which I need and 
which was broken in High Sierra and has not been fixed by Apple since although 
I’ve been reporting it for over 4 years.  So I(i have to keep this computer 
behind.  I might try to install Homebrew on Catalina later.

Janina, you say something about Nano editor.  Should I already have it on my 
mac, or do I need to download it?  I’ve paused going ahead with the rest of the 
instructions until I hear from you on Nano Editor.  Don’t want to break 
anything.  

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 10:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Andrew:
> 
> I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
> your Mac. It's just useful to have it.
> 
> What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
> your Mac terminal.
> 
> Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
> screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...
> 
> I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
> several things:
> 
> * Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.
> 
> * Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
> * ssh session. That's a bad thing.
> 
> * The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
> * thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
> * speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
> * speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
> * there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
> * you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
> * yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.
> 
> * Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
> * a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
> * sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
> * foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
> * is to shut up immediately.
> 
> So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
> silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
> to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
> ready for serious use just yet.
> 
> So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
> on installing and using homebrew:
> 
> https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx
> 
> NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
> application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
> though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
> you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
> conversation.
> 
> I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
> entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
> each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of facts. It's part of
> why I haven't jumped ship from bash to zsh yet myself. What do I do with
> all my profile customizations?
> 
> Anyway, the explanation of why you want /usr/local in your path ahead of
> everything else is very spot on. The how to do it in zsh is where I'm
> stumbling.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Janina,
>> 
>> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
>> Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that 
>> it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the 
>> gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  
>> Would you agree?  
>> 
>> Andrew
>>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
>>> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
>>> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
>>> 
>>> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
>>> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher writes:
 Hello,
 You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
 working with the terminal a 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks, Greg.

This is helpful.

If I believe I find a bug, or if I have an RFE, shall I simply open an
issue on github?

Thanks again for forwarding this info.

Janina

Greg Wocher writes:
> Hello,
> Here is a podcast dedicated to learning the terminal on the Mac. It is called 
> taming the terminal. 
> https://www.bartbusschots.ie/s/blog/taming-the-terminal/ 
> 
> 
> There is also a text tutorial for each of the individual podcasts.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> > On Mar 30, 2020, at 6:40 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Janina,
> > 
> > Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l 
> > command into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  
> > It’s worked!  How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description 
> > the verb “sound”, do you mean send/write content or result of the command 
> > into a file?
> > 
> > I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
> > meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.
> > 
> > I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
> > attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.
> > 
> > By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
> > line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do 
> > you access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with 
> > trepidation aware of possibly sounding like a fool.
> > 
> > Best
> > 
> > Andrew
> >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Simon, Andrew, All:
> >> 
> >> Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
> >> the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
> >> everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
> >> Linux/Unix.
> >> 
> >> It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
> >> 
> >> Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
> >> Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
> >> the output of env into a file:
> >> 
> >> env > my_environment.txt
> >> 
> >> The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.
> >> 
> >> The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
> >> whatever is in the file as input into the command.
> >> 
> >> The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
> >> but trust me, you're going to love it.
> >> 
> >> Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
> >> the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.
> >> 
> >> If you have homebrew, the task is simple:
> >> 
> >> homebrew install gawk
> >> 
> >> Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
> >> your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
> >> number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
> >> expenses: eg.,
> >> 
> >> 1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
> >> -90 this months utility bill
> >> 
> >> Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
> >> just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
> >> calculation by commenting them, e.g.:
> >> 
> >> #70 cell phone service--just paid it
> >> 
> >> Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
> >> make it executable:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> #!/bin/bash
> >> gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
> >> I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
> >> file called budget.txt, I can simply do:
> >> 
> >> sumit  >> 
> >> And hear I've got 910 left.
> >> 
> >> Simon A Fogarty writes:
> >>> Hi Andrew,
> >>> 
> >>> Terminal should let you do what your after,
> >>> 
> >>> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should 
> >>> be able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
> >>> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would 
> >>> think linux etc would do the same thing.
> >>> 
> >>> As for tab complete in the terminal,
> >>> 
> >>> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key 
> >>> then it should work for you.
> >>> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
> >>> 
> >>> I use it when typing long commands like
> >>> Sudo /Applications
> >>> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
> >>> 
> >>> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or 
> >>> symbols in the name then tab complete should be fine
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  
> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
> >>> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> >>> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
> >>> 
> >>> Hi,

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

A couple responses to your questions here up top:

1.) Sounds -- Usually it's some kind of audio file, not speech. You
might call it a boing, or a bleep, or whatever. In W3C we sometimes call
them sonicons, or even earcons (punning on a mispelling of icons as eye
cons). If you press TAB for TAB completion and get a "sound," instead of
the command or filename getting filled out, it's because there's more
than one possible completion. In that situation, you have to type a few
more chars. TAB completion can't finish the job until there's only one
answer.

Jumping to the browser question, it's an executable that runs only in
text in the terminal, so you execute it like any other command. Once in
the browser the commands are a bit different, but not so different that
it's hard. Down arrow takes you through links, for instance, in lynx the
cat,. We started saying lynx the cat, because there's another browser
that's a homonym, links the chain.

There are a couple of settings you need for your lynx configuration file
before it's easy to use with a screen reader. Absolutely you want the
setting called "Show_Cursor," and probably also "Links and form fields are 
numbered." These can be typed on the command line when you start the browser, 
but it's quicker to have them in your .lynxrc file to automatically take effect 
every time you start lynx.

By the way, notice the rc at the 3end of that file name. There are lots
of these in starnix land. The rc stands for "run control," which rather
explains what these fiels to, they control how the application runs. The
period at the start of the filename indicates these are hidden files
that don't show up in an ls file list, unless you provide the -a flag to
also show hidden files.

Good job using the double greater than syntax to redirect output into a
file. That's smarter than the advice I gave you earlier this morning.
Here's how:

A single > will also redirect, but it will overwrite anything that's
already in that same filename.

The double >> syntax appends the output to the end of the file, so you
lose nothing that's already there.

So, it's safer to always do the >>, unless you know you really want to
overwrite the existing data in a particular filename.


Let me als encourage you to go ahead and try installing homebrew. It's
really not that hard, and you'll have a very useful tool when you're
done.

Also, on the budgeting calculator, don't worry too much about
understanding the how and why of the gawk line in the script. Yes,
that's the one that does all the work, and you'll want to know those
kinds of things eventually.

But, think of it this way -- One doesn't need to understand all the
engineering involved in making a car that will run and take people down
the Interstate in order to successfully drive across country. So,
similarly, you can look at these suggestions from the higher level and
just practice putting them into effect, without necessarily
understanding all the inner workings.

Of course, this being a computer thing, you have to trust the
source--that it's not going to do you damage. You don't just want to run
any old program you find somewhere. So, let me just assert that there's
nothing malicious in the code I posted, and stake my years of reputation
on various blind lists on that claim.

PS: awk and sed are extremely powerful tools that lie underneath a lot
of what some of the higher level tools like homebrew do. Get good at sed
and awk and you'll find employment on just those skills.

More soon!

Best,

Janina

'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l command 
> into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  It’s worked! 
>  How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description the verb 
> “sound”, do you mean send/write content or result of the command into a file?
> 
> I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
> meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.
> 
> I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
> attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.
> 
> By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
> line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do you 
> access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with trepidation 
> aware of possibly sounding like a fool.
> 
> Best
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Simon, Andrew, All:
> > 
> > Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
> > the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
> > everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
> > Linux/Unix.
> > 
> > It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
> > 
> > Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

[Greg Wocher]

Hello,
Here is a podcast dedicated to learning the terminal on the Mac. It is called 
taming the terminal. 
https://www.bartbusschots.ie/s/blog/taming-the-terminal/ 


There is also a text tutorial for each of the individual podcasts.

Greg Wocher

> On Mar 30, 2020, at 6:40 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l command 
> into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  It’s worked! 
>  How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description the verb 
> “sound”, do you mean send/write content or result of the command into a file?
> 
> I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
> meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.
> 
> I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
> attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.
> 
> By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
> line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do you 
> access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with trepidation 
> aware of possibly sounding like a fool.
> 
> Best
> 
> Andrew
>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Simon, Andrew, All:
>> 
>> Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
>> the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
>> everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
>> Linux/Unix.
>> 
>> It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
>> 
>> Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
>> Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
>> the output of env into a file:
>> 
>> env > my_environment.txt
>> 
>> The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.
>> 
>> The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
>> whatever is in the file as input into the command.
>> 
>> The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
>> but trust me, you're going to love it.
>> 
>> Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
>> the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.
>> 
>> If you have homebrew, the task is simple:
>> 
>> homebrew install gawk
>> 
>> Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
>> your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
>> number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
>> expenses: eg.,
>> 
>> 1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
>> -90 this months utility bill
>> 
>> Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
>> just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
>> calculation by commenting them, e.g.:
>> 
>> #70 cell phone service--just paid it
>> 
>> Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
>> make it executable:
>> 
>> 
>> #!/bin/bash
>> gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'
>> 
>> 
>> Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
>> I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
>> file called budget.txt, I can simply do:
>> 
>> sumit > 
>> And hear I've got 910 left.
>> 
>> Simon A Fogarty writes:
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>> 
>>> Terminal should let you do what your after,
>>> 
>>> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
>>> able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
>>> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
>>> linux etc would do the same thing.
>>> 
>>> As for tab complete in the terminal,
>>> 
>>> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then 
>>> it should work for you.
>>> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
>>> 
>>> I use it when typing long commands like
>>> Sudo /Applications
>>> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
>>> 
>>> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols 
>>> in the name then tab complete should be fine
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  
>>> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
>>> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even 
>>> copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l 
>>> flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>>> 
>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Janina,

Just to report that I have just successfully put the info from ls -l command 
into a text file using redirection and the greater than > sign.  It’s worked!  
How clever.  So exciting!  When you use in your description the verb “sound”, 
do you mean send/write content or result of the command into a file?

I think I’d better leave the Homebrew and gawk alone. . I think you 
meant it for Simon, as he’s obviously very adept at cli already.

I will have to go through your budget example very carefully a few times to 
attempt to understand exactly how it’s done.  But it’s impressive as well.

By the way, Janina, how does one run, say, a browser from the command 
line/terminal?  It is probably a special browser and once you run it, do you 
access the info on the webpage in the usual way?  I’m asking with trepidation 
aware of possibly sounding like a fool.

Best

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 09:40, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Simon, Andrew, All:
> 
> Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
> the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
> everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
> Linux/Unix.
> 
> It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:
> 
> Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
> Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
> the output of env into a file:
> 
> env > my_environment.txt
> 
> The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.
> 
> The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
> whatever is in the file as input into the command.
> 
> The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
> but trust me, you're going to love it.
> 
> Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
> the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.
> 
> If you have homebrew, the task is simple:
> 
> homebrew install gawk
> 
> Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
> your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
> number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
> expenses: eg.,
> 
> 1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
> -90 this months utility bill
> 
> Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
> just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
> calculation by commenting them, e.g.:
> 
> #70 cell phone service--just paid it
> 
> Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
> make it executable:
> 
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'
> 
> 
> Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
> I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
> file called budget.txt, I can simply do:
> 
> sumit  
> And hear I've got 910 left.
> 
> Simon A Fogarty writes:
>> Hi Andrew,
>> 
>> Terminal should let you do what your after,
>> 
>> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
>> able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
>> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
>> linux etc would do the same thing.
>> 
>> As for tab complete in the terminal,
>> 
>> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then 
>> it should work for you.
>> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
>> 
>> I use it when typing long commands like
>> Sudo /Applications
>> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
>> 
>> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols 
>> in the name then tab complete should be fine
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
>> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
>> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files 
>> in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy 
>> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, 
>> which would produce long information about each item.
>> 
>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
>> author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
>> wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
>> completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there should 
>> be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear 
>> the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on 
>> this?
>> 
>> andrew
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Anders:

Very excellent answer to your question, plus good instructions for
getting homebrew on your mac at this page:

https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx

Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> What does homebrew actually do?
> Is this a library or what?
> Thanks.
> /A
> 
> > 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> > :
> > 
> > Janina,
> > 
> > I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for 
> > Homebrew and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is 
> > that it is one of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around 
> > the gills to even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my 
> > mac.  Would you agree?  
> > 
> > Andrew
> >> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
> >> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
> >> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> >> 
> >> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
> >> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Janina
> >> 
> >> Greg Wocher writes:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> >>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> >>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> >>> 
> >>> Greg Wocher
> >>> 
>  On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>   wrote:
>  
>  Hi,
>  
>  When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>  window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>  files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
>  even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to 
>  use the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>  
>  Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
>  the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which 
>  one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in 
>  Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of available names if 
>  there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press 
>  the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  
>  Any thoughts on this?
>  
>  andrew
>  
>  -- 
>  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>  Visionaries list.
>  
>  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>  if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>  owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
>  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>  at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>  caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
>  The archives for this list can be searched at:
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>  --- 
>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>  Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>  an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>  To view this discussion on the web visit 
>  https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>> 
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> >>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>> 
> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> >>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>> 
> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >>> --- 
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> >>> "MacVisionaries" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com.
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> 
> >> Janina Sajka
> >> 
> >> Linux Foundation Fellow
> >> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:  http://a11y.org
> >> 
> >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

I can, and sbelow will, walk you through getting homebrew installed on
your Mac. It's just useful to have it.

What it does: Allows you to run a lot of Linux utilities directly on
your Mac terminal.

Now, for tdsr, which I presume means something like "terminal desktop
screen readner,' or something similar. I'm just guessing ...

I got it running. I launched while ssh'd into my machine. That did
several things:

*   Launched tdsr on my Mac Airbook. That's a good thing.

*   Made my Mac respond with speech to every command I typed in my
*   ssh session. That's a bad thing.

*   The Mac would not respond to a tap of the Ctrl. That's a bad
*   thing. Shutting speech up is almost as important as getting
*   speech happening. You can't be efficient if you can't stop
*   speech, and go on to your next command. And, every platform out
*   there, Windows, Mac, Linux all the screen readers shutup when
*   you tap Ctrl. Maybe that's in the configuration part I didn't
*   yet deal with, but it should be a builtin default, imo.

*   Doing Alt-TAB on the Mac didn't shut TDSR up either. That's also
*   a bad thing, imo. A terminal level application should be
*   sufficiently context aware to know when it's no longer the
*   foreground app and the right thing in that situation, again imo,
*   is to shut up immediately.

So, I'm going to show you homebroew, I even suggest you get it for the
silly little calculator script I provided in another email. You do want
to start writing scripts fairly soon, but I don't know whether tdsr is
ready for serious use just yet.

So, with that disclaimer, here's a web page with very good instructions
on installing and using homebrew:

https://www.studytonight.com/post/what-is-homebrew-and-how-to-install-it-on-mac-osx

NOTE: There's a step in the above web page where they have you use an
application called nano to edit your .bash_profile file. Nano is OK,
though not as good as vim or emacs. For now, no problem using it, but
you will need to pick up vim or emacs in the next couple months--another
conversation.

I digress. You do want to edit, probably .zshrc -- but as I said in that
entertained you (you're welcome, we do all need a smile early and often
each day) I'm not up to speed on just those kinds of facts. It's part of
why I haven't jumped ship from bash to zsh yet myself. What do I do with
all my profile customizations?

Anyway, the explanation of why you want /usr/local in your path ahead of
everything else is very spot on. The how to do it in zsh is where I'm
stumbling.

Best,

Janina


'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Janina,
> 
> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for Homebrew 
> and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that it is one 
> of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the gills to 
> even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  Would you 
> agree?  
> 
> Andrew
> > On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
> > TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
> > python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> > 
> > Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
> > as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Janina
> > 
> > Greg Wocher writes:
> >> Hello,
> >> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> >> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> >> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> >> 
> >> Greg Wocher
> >> 
> >>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> >>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
> >>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
> >>> even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use 
> >>> the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
> >>> 
> >>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
> >>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which 
> >>> one wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in 
> >>> Terminal completing the name or else giving a list of available names if 
> >>> there should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press 
> >>> the tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  
> >>> Any thoughts on this?
> >>> 
> >>> andrew
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>> 
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> >>> if you 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
What does homebrew actually do?
Is this a library or what?
Thanks.
/A

> 30 mars 2020 kl. 11:33 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Janina,
> 
> I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for Homebrew 
> and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that it is one 
> of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the gills to 
> even attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  Would you 
> agree?  
> 
> Andrew
>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
>> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
>> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
>> 
>> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
>> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Greg Wocher writes:
>>> Hello,
>>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
>>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
>>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher
>>> 
 On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
 window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
 files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
 even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use 
 the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
 
 Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
 the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
 wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
 completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
 should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the 
 tab, I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
 thoughts on this?
 
 andrew
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Janina Sajka
>> 
>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:http://a11y.org
>> 
>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Janina,

I’ve looked carefully at Greg’s suggestion and then did a search for Homebrew 
and TDSR and since the only thing i understand about Python is that it is one 
of the programming languages, I thought I’m too green around the gills to even 
attempt to play around with TDSR in case I mess up my mac.  Would you agree? 
 

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 06:32, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
> TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
> python3, and that is taking quite some time.
> 
> Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
> as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> Greg Wocher writes:
>> Hello,
>> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
>> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>> 
>> Greg Wocher
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
>>> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even 
>>> copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l 
>>> flag, which would produce long information about each item.
>>> 
>>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
>>> the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
>>> wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
>>> completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
>>> should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, 
>>> I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
>>> thoughts on this?
>>> 
>>> andrew
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0FFD2285-C62A-4115-B8FD-1DEE44486FA8%40gwocher.com.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures  http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hello Janina,

I’m having a big grin on my face as I’m reading your very informative but also 
witty response.  Fabulous!  In these tense times, any amount of humour is 
precious.

Take care

Andrew
> On 30 Mar 2020, at 05:48, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Andrew:
> 
> Glad to hear you're giving the CLI the old college try. Hope it becomes
> a very comfortable environment for you!
> 
> I want to suggest it's important you focus on zsh as Apple now defaults
> to zsh.
> 
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050 
> .
> 
> Since you're a beginning command line user, you don't want to waste time
> learning something you would need to unlearn soon. While bash isn't all
> that different, it's different enough yours truly has yet to take the
> plunge herself. But, that's my problem. I'm just saying don't make it
> your problem.
> 
> To check which shell you're using type:
> 
> env |grep -i shell
> 
> Unpacking the above command for you:
> 
> env is shorthand for "environment. Type just 'env' plus return to learn
> about your environment.
> 
> The vertical bar, which is entered by shift-backslash, the key
> immediately above return,  is known in the cli world as the pipe symbol.
> In our example above it indicates that the output of the 'env' command
> is to be run through a second command, grep.
> 
> grep is an ancient Unixism better known to the unwashed as find.
> Literally, it derives from "get repetition." If you hear someone saying,
> "grep" in ordinary conversation, they might be showing off or something.
> 
> The dash i means ignore case as you look through the output of the env
> command.
> 
> Lastly, the word we're looking for, 'shell' is entered in our command.
> 
> Thus, the voluminous output of env is reduced to the one item you're
> interested in.
> 
> If the answer is something other than:
> 
> SHELL=/bin/zsh
> 
> Stop everything you're doing and switch to zsh by simply typing zsh and
> pressing return.
> 
> You'll notice your ordinary user gives you the percentage symbol as your
> shell prompt. That's yet another way to know you're in zsh.
> 
> To make the change permanent do:
> 
> chsh /bin/zsh
> 
> You guessed it, 'chsh' means "change shell."
> 
> PS: One kind of snobish impercation involving the pipe symbel and 
> understandable by programmers and
> other cli mayvens is to say: "Pipe it to dev null."
> 
> If you should enter:
> 
> ls -l /dev/null
> 
> You'll discover a writable/readable device (that's the crw' part)
> called, "null." As you might guess, 'null' is nothing, nowhere. It's
> were garbage goes when programming.
> 
> So, the impercation is a more polite way of saying: "go to h**l."
> 
> PPS: Your zsh skills are transferrable. You can use them on any Unix
> like system, including Linux.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> You are so kind.  Thank you for your response.  I’m new to the command line, 
>> but I’m very serious in learning.  So your kind attitude and response in 
>> non-technical terms is very welcome.  As to the 2nd point, I was surprised 
>> because I’m following Joe Kissel’s from TitBits Take Control of the Command 
>> Line in Mac OS book and that’s what he recommends: use of the tab key.
>> 
>> If you were happy/had the time to point me towards any materials on command 
>> line/linux, i’d be very grateful.  Or if you know of anyone who’d be happy 
>> to give some tutorials on Linux, paid of course, I’d appreciate that too.
>> 
>> With best wishes
>> 
>> Andrew 
>>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 20:14, Jonathan Cohn >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, for the first question just interact a few times with the window and 
>>> you should be able to use the voiceover cursor to review and select things. 
>>> VO-return should start selecting and vo-return a second time should finish 
>>> the selection operation. Also, double  tapping with mouse will select a 
>>> word. I thought that triple tapping would select a line but had no luck 
>>> with that. Of course make sure your mouse is where your VO cursor is before 
>>> using the VO shift space to do the tapping.
>>> 
>>> Your second question was related to file completion.
>>> This might depend on the shell you are using accounts created in Mojave or 
>>> earlier use bash  and Catalina created account default to zsh.  Also, it 
>>> will depend on what the behavior is for partial completions. If you have 
>>> the files 
>>> dar1 dar2 dar3 and dar4 
>>> Pressing d followed by escape will fill in "dar" and then I believe beep. 
>>> If you press tap a second time then you should get a list of possible 
>>> matches. Note this behavior is strictly related to the shell you are 
>>> running and its options set in the  shell default / profile / login files.
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
 >>> 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Simon, Andrew, All:

Simon is correct. The correct switches will indeed allow you to write
the output of any command to a file. This works everywhere, because
everybody wants this kind of functionality--whether Mac, Windows, or
Linux/Unix.

It's called redirection, and it goes one of two ways:

Using the greater than symbol, namely '>' you send output somewhere.
Using my last example of the env command, here's a command that sounds
the output of env into a file:

env > my_environment.txt

The other direction reads input FROM somewhere.

The symbol for this is the less than symbol, i.e. '<' and takes
whatever is in the file as input into the command.

The uses of this second one are a bit harder for newbies to understand,
but trust me, you're going to love it.

Here's a quick and dirty example. Unfortunately, you first have to get
the gawk command installed, as the script below uses gaw.

If you have homebrew, the task is simple:

homebrew install gawk

Back to an example of indirection: Need to sum your monthly budget? Keep
your income and expenses in an ascii text file where the first word is a
number. Positive numbers are for income, and negative numbers for
expenses: eg.,

1000 weekly check from my boss for working too hard
-90 this months utility bill

Need comments in your file? No problem. Any first word not a number is
just ignored, and you can temporarily even take numbers out of the
calculation by commenting them, e.g.:

#70 cell phone service--just paid it

Now create the following as a script file, meaning take this content and
make it executable:


#!/bin/bash
gawk '{ sum += $1 }; END { print sum }'


Bingo, you've got a script in a file, meaning you've got a new command.
I call mine 'sumit' as in sum it. So, if my income and expenses are in a
file called budget.txt, I can simply do:

sumit  Hi Andrew,
> 
> Terminal should let you do what your after,
> 
> With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
> able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
> I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
> linux etc would do the same thing.
> 
> As for tab complete in the terminal,
> 
> So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then it 
> should work for you.
> As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.
> 
> I use it when typing long commands like
> Sudo /Applications
> At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.
> 
> So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols in 
> the name then tab complete should be fine
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: A couple Terminal questions
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files 
> in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy 
> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, 
> which would produce long information about each item.
> 
> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
> author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one wishes 
> to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal completing 
> the name or else giving a list of available names if there should be more 
> than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear the 
> ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on this?
> 
> andrew
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
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RE: A couple Terminal questions

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hi Andrew,

Terminal should let you do what your after,

With the listing of files and if you use the correct switchs  you should be 
able to write the list of files and associated data to a file  
I know it's possible to do this in ms dos and power shell, so I would think 
linux etc would do the same thing.

As for tab complete in the terminal,

So long as you have the name correct to the point you hit the tab key then it 
should work for you.
As long as there is a file or folder name with what your looking for.

I use it when typing long commands like
Sudo /Applications
At the start of the creation of a bootable Usb flash drive.

So as long as you have the name correct including any uppercase or symbols in 
the name then tab complete should be fine



-Original Message-
From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2020 3:22 AM
To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: A couple Terminal questions

Hi,

When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the window 
content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files in the 
directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy their names 
to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, which would 
produce long information about each item.

Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one wishes 
to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal completing the 
name or else giving a list of available names if there should be more than one. 
 This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear the ominous bong 
bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on this?

andrew

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Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks for the reminder, Greg. I'm just now starting the install of
TDSR. For me that means an update of homebrew, followed by an upgrade of
python3, and that is taking quite some time.

Hopeing the result will truly be easier to use than VO in the terminal,
as you suggest. That would be a good thing, imo.

Best,

Janina

Greg Wocher writes:
> Hello,
> You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes 
> working with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> > On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> > window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
> > files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even 
> > copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l 
> > flag, which would produce long information about each item.
> > 
> > Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
> > the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
> > wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
> > completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
> > should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, 
> > I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
> > thoughts on this?
> > 
> > andrew
> > 
> > -- 
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
> >  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> > caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> > --- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "MacVisionaries" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, Andrew:

Glad to hear you're giving the CLI the old college try. Hope it becomes
a very comfortable environment for you!

I want to suggest it's important you focus on zsh as Apple now defaults
to zsh.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050.

Since you're a beginning command line user, you don't want to waste time
learning something you would need to unlearn soon. While bash isn't all
that different, it's different enough yours truly has yet to take the
plunge herself. But, that's my problem. I'm just saying don't make it
your problem.

To check which shell you're using type:

env |grep -i shell

Unpacking the above command for you:

env is shorthand for "environment. Type just 'env' plus return to learn
about your environment.

The vertical bar, which is entered by shift-backslash, the key
immediately above return,  is known in the cli world as the pipe symbol.
In our example above it indicates that the output of the 'env' command
is to be run through a second command, grep.

grep is an ancient Unixism better known to the unwashed as find.
Literally, it derives from "get repetition." If you hear someone saying,
"grep" in ordinary conversation, they might be showing off or something.

The dash i means ignore case as you look through the output of the env
command.

Lastly, the word we're looking for, 'shell' is entered in our command.

Thus, the voluminous output of env is reduced to the one item you're
interested in.

If the answer is something other than:

SHELL=/bin/zsh

Stop everything you're doing and switch to zsh by simply typing zsh and
pressing return.

You'll notice your ordinary user gives you the percentage symbol as your
shell prompt. That's yet another way to know you're in zsh.

To make the change permanent do:

chsh /bin/zsh

You guessed it, 'chsh' means "change shell."

PS: One kind of snobish impercation involving the pipe symbel and 
understandable by programmers and
other cli mayvens is to say: "Pipe it to dev null."

If you should enter:

ls -l /dev/null

You'll discover a writable/readable device (that's the crw' part)
called, "null." As you might guess, 'null' is nothing, nowhere. It's
were garbage goes when programming.

So, the impercation is a more polite way of saying: "go to h**l."

PPS: Your zsh skills are transferrable. You can use them on any Unix
like system, including Linux.

Best,

Janina


'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Jonathan,
> 
> You are so kind.  Thank you for your response.  I’m new to the command line, 
> but I’m very serious in learning.  So your kind attitude and response in 
> non-technical terms is very welcome.  As to the 2nd point, I was surprised 
> because I’m following Joe Kissel’s from TitBits Take Control of the Command 
> Line in Mac OS book and that’s what he recommends: use of the tab key.
> 
> If you were happy/had the time to point me towards any materials on command 
> line/linux, i’d be very grateful.  Or if you know of anyone who’d be happy to 
> give some tutorials on Linux, paid of course, I’d appreciate that too.
> 
> With best wishes
> 
> Andrew 
> > On 29 Mar 2020, at 20:14, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> > 
> > Well, for the first question just interact a few times with the window and 
> > you should be able to use the voiceover cursor to review and select things. 
> > VO-return should start selecting and vo-return a second time should finish 
> > the selection operation. Also, double  tapping with mouse will select a 
> > word. I thought that triple tapping would select a line but had no luck 
> > with that. Of course make sure your mouse is where your VO cursor is before 
> > using the VO shift space to do the tapping.
> > 
> > Your second question was related to file completion.
> > This might depend on the shell you are using accounts created in Mojave or 
> > earlier use bash  and Catalina created account default to zsh.  Also, it 
> > will depend on what the behavior is for partial completions. If you have 
> > the files 
> > dar1 dar2 dar3 and dar4 
> > Pressing d followed by escape will fill in "dar" and then I believe beep. 
> > If you press tap a second time then you should get a list of possible 
> > matches. Note this behavior is strictly related to the shell you are 
> > running and its options set in the  shell default / profile / login files.
> > Jonathan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> >> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
> >> files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe 
> >> even copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use 
> >> the -l flag, which would produce long information about each item.
> >> 
> >> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
> >> the author teaches is 

Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Jonathan, Andrew, All:

With respect to using the tab key in the terminal ...

Jonathan Cohn writes:
> Your second question was related to file completion.

This says too little. Yes, filename completion, but also command
completion.

In fact the strategy is widely implemented because it helps us all avoid
making mistakes that cause us to retype stuff.

It should work. If you're hearing a sound, it's because there are more
than one completions. Hit tab a second time and you'll get a list of
possible completions.

Type a few more chars and you'll get either the entire command/filename,
or another sound.

This feature is common to shells these days. Every shell has it across
all platforms. You can use it in Windows Power Shell, for instance.
Everybody has it because it's so darn useful. Like I said, retyping a
long complex command isn't fun. So, use tab early and often to get it
right the first time.

PS: The feature is called "tab completion."

Best,

Janina


> This might depend on the shell you are using accounts created in Mojave or 
> earlier use bash  and Catalina created account default to zsh.  Also, it will 
> depend on what the behavior is for partial completions. If you have the files 
> dar1 dar2 dar3 and dar4 
> Pressing d followed by escape will fill in "dar" and then I believe beep. If 
> you press tap a second time then you should get a list of possible matches. 
> Note this behavior is strictly related to the shell you are running and its 
> options set in the  shell default / profile / login files.
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> > On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> > window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of 
> > files in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even 
> > copy their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l 
> > flag, which would produce long information about each item.
> > 
> > Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques 
> > the author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
> > wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
> > completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there 
> > should be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, 
> > I hear the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any 
> > thoughts on this?
> > 
> > andrew
> > 
> > -- 
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
> > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
> >  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> > caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "MacVisionaries" group.
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> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/BB072597-FDA8-4971-B666-361890504466%40me.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: A couple Terminal questions

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Jonathan,

You are so kind.  Thank you for your response.  I’m new to the command line, 
but I’m very serious in learning.  So your kind attitude and response in 
non-technical terms is very welcome.  As to the 2nd point, I was surprised 
because I’m following Joe Kissel’s from TitBits Take Control of the Command 
Line in Mac OS book and that’s what he recommends: use of the tab key.

If you were happy/had the time to point me towards any materials on command 
line/linux, i’d be very grateful.  Or if you know of anyone who’d be happy to 
give some tutorials on Linux, paid of course, I’d appreciate that too.

With best wishes

Andrew 
> On 29 Mar 2020, at 20:14, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Well, for the first question just interact a few times with the window and 
> you should be able to use the voiceover cursor to review and select things. 
> VO-return should start selecting and vo-return a second time should finish 
> the selection operation. Also, double  tapping with mouse will select a word. 
> I thought that triple tapping would select a line but had no luck with that. 
> Of course make sure your mouse is where your VO cursor is before using the VO 
> shift space to do the tapping.
> 
> Your second question was related to file completion.
> This might depend on the shell you are using accounts created in Mojave or 
> earlier use bash  and Catalina created account default to zsh.  Also, it will 
> depend on what the behavior is for partial completions. If you have the files 
> dar1 dar2 dar3 and dar4 
> Pressing d followed by escape will fill in "dar" and then I believe beep. If 
> you press tap a second time then you should get a list of possible matches. 
> Note this behavior is strictly related to the shell you are running and its 
> options set in the  shell default / profile / login files.
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
>> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files 
>> in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy 
>> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, 
>> which would produce long information about each item.
>> 
>> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
>> author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one 
>> wishes to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal 
>> completing the name or else giving a list of available names if there should 
>> be more than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear 
>> the ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on 
>> this?
>> 
>> andrew
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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> 
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Re: A couple Terminal questions

[Jonathan Cohn]

Well, for the first question just interact a few times with the window and you 
should be able to use the voiceover cursor to review and select things. 
VO-return should start selecting and vo-return a second time should finish the 
selection operation. Also, double  tapping with mouse will select a word. I 
thought that triple tapping would select a line but had no luck with that. Of 
course make sure your mouse is where your VO cursor is before using the VO 
shift space to do the tapping.

Your second question was related to file completion.
This might depend on the shell you are using accounts created in Mojave or 
earlier use bash  and Catalina created account default to zsh.  Also, it will 
depend on what the behavior is for partial completions. If you have the files 
dar1 dar2 dar3 and dar4 
Pressing d followed by escape will fill in "dar" and then I believe beep. If 
you press tap a second time then you should get a list of possible matches. 
Note this behavior is strictly related to the shell you are running and its 
options set in the  shell default / profile / login files.
Jonathan



> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files 
> in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy 
> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, 
> which would produce long information about each item.
> 
> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
> author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one wishes 
> to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal completing 
> the name or else giving a list of available names if there should be more 
> than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear the 
> ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on this?
> 
> andrew
> 
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Re: A couple Terminal questions

[Greg Wocher]

Hello,
You might want to try the TDSR console screen reader for Mac. It makes working 
with the terminal a bit easier. It can be found at:
https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 

Greg Wocher

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When working in Terminal and command line, is it possible to examine the 
> window content with Voiceover?  Say , ls -l command produces a list of files 
> in the directory I am in.  How can I examine each file and maybe even copy 
> their names to clipboard or details about them if I were to use the -l flag, 
> which would produce long information about each item.
> 
> Secondly, reading a book on Command Line, one of the shortcut techniques the 
> author teaches is to start typing the name of a directory to which one wishes 
> to change and then pressing tab, which would result in Terminal completing 
> the name or else giving a list of available names if there should be more 
> than one.  This doesn’t seem to work.  When I press the tab, I hear the 
> ominous bong bong.  So this technique doesn’t work.  Any thoughts on this?
> 
> andrew
> 
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