Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
where can you get the sdk at? and is it hard to learn? I like your game idea and await it smily On Aug 5, 2009, at 4:58 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote: Hi everyone, Just as an addendum to this conversation, i was meditating of sorts about some game theory and the controls of a game app which could be ported to a gprs/navigation application. Here goes: 1 The 3d positional audio used on two vectors of sound propagation. I will give an example of an RTS game for this concept. Since i think relating the true distance of a sound from the back or the front could be quite daunting, to the least having a high learning curve, i was thinking that spatial references can be laid out on a bird's eye view perspective. IE: front and back= top and bottom while left and right stay the same. If i imagined this as a physical boundary, the x and y axises would be quote flattened unquote to y and z axises. So an object at one's back at the limit of the set boundary of spatial dimension, the sound would be heard at the bottom, or the chin area of the wearer. whilst the opposite would be heard at the top of the forehead. left and right would retain their relative positions, but the difference would be felt when an object is ahead on a diagonal position. That would translate to a top/left audio cue and so forth. I think of this application or flattening of sound as most of the time when we are walking around, we take much less notice of height factors as unless we are as taller than basket ball players, we don't often have to crouch to walk somewhere. So going back to the RTS game, if we have this flat two axis representation of space over a map, the one channel whoch would be back can be used for, well...background or ambient sounds. Cues would be relevant to such things as the type of terrain one is in, etc. And the front audio within a central boundary would represent unit responses and general game command voice responses. 2 controls and gestures. Taking the rts element to the table, the main advantage paused for controls which can be easily accessed without cluttering the actual space of the screen would be using the rotor for various menus and functions. For instance, one finger drag=feel around the game space with audio cues on hitting an object or contextual item 2 finger dragaround screen to displace the map to the opposite direction of the fingers being dragged to explore more of the map 3 finger drag for faster scroll of the map area 2 finger rotor once tapped on an object for actions choice: patrol, attack/ build, etc...Each instance of a double-tap would go one level deeper into the contextual menu for choosing for example which building to build and the sorts. 3 finger rotor for other behavioral actions or quote special unquote abilities. 1 finger flick once double tapped on an object slash soldier= selecting the next or previous unit 2 finger flick= selection of next building and the list goes on. I will continue to add to this as i think through the possibilities, sort of a diary to myself as well so i can gather all the notes for eventually starting the programming part once i get my hands on that SDK :) Hope i'm not a total bore... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi, You can grab the sdk on the apple site http://developer.apple.com/iPhone/program/download.html Its a 2 gig download so make sure you know what you're doing before venturing into this. If you do know. then forgive my pretense :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi everyone, Just as an addendum to this conversation, i was meditating of sorts about some game theory and the controls of a game app which could be ported to a gprs/navigation application. Here goes: 1 The 3d positional audio used on two vectors of sound propagation. I will give an example of an RTS game for this concept. Since i think relating the true distance of a sound from the back or the front could be quite daunting, to the least having a high learning curve, i was thinking that spatial references can be laid out on a bird's eye view perspective. IE: front and back= top and bottom while left and right stay the same. If i imagined this as a physical boundary, the x and y axises would be quote flattened unquote to y and z axises. So an object at one's back at the limit of the set boundary of spatial dimension, the sound would be heard at the bottom, or the chin area of the wearer. whilst the opposite would be heard at the top of the forehead. left and right would retain their relative positions, but the difference would be felt when an object is ahead on a diagonal position. That would translate to a top/left audio cue and so forth. I think of this application or flattening of sound as most of the time when we are walking around, we take much less notice of height factors as unless we are as taller than basket ball players, we don't often have to crouch to walk somewhere. So going back to the RTS game, if we have this flat two axis representation of space over a map, the one channel whoch would be back can be used for, well...background or ambient sounds. Cues would be relevant to such things as the type of terrain one is in, etc. And the front audio within a central boundary would represent unit responses and general game command voice responses. 2 controls and gestures. Taking the rts element to the table, the main advantage paused for controls which can be easily accessed without cluttering the actual space of the screen would be using the rotor for various menus and functions. For instance, one finger drag=feel around the game space with audio cues on hitting an object or contextual item 2 finger dragaround screen to displace the map to the opposite direction of the fingers being dragged to explore more of the map 3 finger drag for faster scroll of the map area 2 finger rotor once tapped on an object for actions choice: patrol, attack/ build, etc...Each instance of a double-tap would go one level deeper into the contextual menu for choosing for example which building to build and the sorts. 3 finger rotor for other behavioral actions or quote special unquote abilities. 1 finger flick once double tapped on an object slash soldier= selecting the next or previous unit 2 finger flick= selection of next building and the list goes on. I will continue to add to this as i think through the possibilities, sort of a diary to myself as well so i can gather all the notes for eventually starting the programming part once i get my hands on that SDK :) Hope i'm not a total bore... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi Cara, Thanks for the kind words. I never quite know where and when I get a bit too esoteric or use too much jargon that will bore people to tears. Sometimes, X-Celerator, my guide dog, will leave the room when I'm dictating an original work as I think he understands enough to know that almost all people who study language are, as Dr. Johnson wrote in the first true dictionary of the English language, a harmless drudge who toils about words and meanings. I actually wrote an NSF proposal to study the amount of semantic information that flows tactically between a guide dog and his human partner. We got a pretty good score but not good enough to get the cash. Happy Hacking, cdh On Jul 31, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Hi Chris and all; the API used on both the Mac and IPhone is OpenAL, which is (as you may know) an open-source cross-platform 3D audio API. It's actually only one of the ApIs built in to Leopard by default. The IPHone however, relies on OpenAL exclusively for it's 3D audio. HTH and thanks so much for all of the great material!… Smiles, CQ :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jul 31, 2009, at 4:59 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: The most accurate spatial audio information uses a technique called Head Relative Transform Functions (HRTF) which simulates relatively precise tonal qualities of sounds that one perceives from a specific direction. Some of the research into what became these functions had humans sitting with dozens of very tiny microphones set up in an array in their ears. there was more than enough similarity for the physicists to resolve the raw data into a number of mathematical equations and the output of said functions is amazing. the problem with HRTF is that it is very compute intensive. Of course, when I first started diddling about with it, I was on what is now a six year old Dell desktop. A dual core, 64 bit laptop should be able to handle these equations in real time much more easily. Microsoft has for a number of years now included HRtF in DirectSound (the audio component of Drect X) and my experiments with them showed very promising results. I don't know the Macintosh API too well so I don't know if they have something similar, identical or not. The Microsoft documentation does warn about relying too much on these functions as they can bog down the processor and cause other threads to behave kind of badly (again, all of the faster new computers should be able to calculate these sounds in real time. I've loads of ideas for a combination of really accurate sound combined with a haptic interface using the Falcon to simulate a whole lot of 3 dimensional real world objects. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: I've heard there is a lot more to spacial placement than just fiddling with the pan to adjust volume levels. At least this seems obvious to me when a little pan to the left makes the sound fly way off to the left of the sound field. Probably a lot more going on in the ear that isn't fooled by that trick. So, that said, do you have any idea if the VoiceOver positional audio is doing real sound field magic or is it just a subtle pan? One underrated feature on the new iPhone is the compass. With this an application can not only know where you are but also which way you (or at least your phone) is pointed. This makes possible real walking directions from where you're at using left and right rather than assuming the user has their cardinal orientation correct. Even feedback to say what is in front of you in the direction you are pointing. Should be good things coming. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
http://www.creativeapplications.net/iphone/face-it-iphone/ Here's the answer to your question about 3d audio. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
The most accurate spatial audio information uses a technique called Head Relative Transform Functions (HRTF) which simulates relatively precise tonal qualities of sounds that one perceives from a specific direction. Some of the research into what became these functions had humans sitting with dozens of very tiny microphones set up in an array in their ears. there was more than enough similarity for the physicists to resolve the raw data into a number of mathematical equations and the output of said functions is amazing. the problem with HRTF is that it is very compute intensive. Of course, when I first started diddling about with it, I was on what is now a six year old Dell desktop. A dual core, 64 bit laptop should be able to handle these equations in real time much more easily. Microsoft has for a number of years now included HRtF in DirectSound (the audio component of Drect X) and my experiments with them showed very promising results. I don't know the Macintosh API too well so I don't know if they have something similar, identical or not. The Microsoft documentation does warn about relying too much on these functions as they can bog down the processor and cause other threads to behave kind of badly (again, all of the faster new computers should be able to calculate these sounds in real time. I've loads of ideas for a combination of really accurate sound combined with a haptic interface using the Falcon to simulate a whole lot of 3 dimensional real world objects. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: I've heard there is a lot more to spacial placement than just fiddling with the pan to adjust volume levels. At least this seems obvious to me when a little pan to the left makes the sound fly way off to the left of the sound field. Probably a lot more going on in the ear that isn't fooled by that trick. So, that said, do you have any idea if the VoiceOver positional audio is doing real sound field magic or is it just a subtle pan? One underrated feature on the new iPhone is the compass. With this an application can not only know where you are but also which way you (or at least your phone) is pointed. This makes possible real walking directions from where you're at using left and right rather than assuming the user has their cardinal orientation correct. Even feedback to say what is in front of you in the direction you are pointing. Should be good things coming. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have an SDK for Mac and they do .5 mm tactile resolution (most humans can feel no better than .1 mm) so you can do extraordinary things with this device and they only cost about $ 100 (really). I like the idea of using the iPhone for orientation and to provide information about one's surroundings. I'm not especially impressed by the iPhone's Maps application but its location services are pretty excellent. I thought of this while walking through Harvard Yard after lunch today and wondered how a student new to the university would find the library as opposed to the historical center next door as none of these buildings have traditional street addresses and are arrived at by foot paths. Your idea could give a student a lot of good information and can be used as a fallback if they get confused. Cool idea. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: I really wonder why no one's heard of AudioQuake with MindGrid. The project has somewhat stalled out over the past two years, but the Jedi Quake, version, written by Cara Quinn and others, is the best 3D audio simulation I've seen. I can't speak for the parallel- processing audio capacity of the brain, but immediately this game and its maps made me start thinking about mobility orientation, applications. Having only ever encountered a
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi, Would it be useful if I started a 3dau...@lists.hofstader.com? I think we have a few people interested and private communication will cause some ideas to slip through , leaving some of the gang with a different set of notions than others which can cause real confusion as conversations advance. Also, I would propose that we spend some time researching the API and sharing our thoughts on it and then, perhaps, start a project for the team to do as a group. Happy Hacking, cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:54 PM, Yuma Decaux wrote: Hi everyone, Thanks for the amazing response and information pertaining to this indeed very intriguing field. I can't get the concept out of my head as this promises many new applications for the visually impaired provided the technologies discussed herein are actually possible within the API set of the iphone's SDK. I agree that one of themoreimportant aspects of a true audio is positional audio. For the example of a audio based RPG/adventure game, the tactile experience adding further dimension to the experience comparable to a wii interface can be extremely satisfying as there is a contextual assimilation of imaginary interpretations within the application. I think i will document myself extensively on the iphone SDK and figure some avenues yet to be explored for the blind community. If anyone is interested in brainstorming over this subject, and if anyone has some previous experience little or lots on the SDK, you can contact me on skype as shainobi1 and triple7 for twitter. Again, thank you so much for the varied responses and i hope this discussion can generate some form ofdevelopement of a new gaming experience in the future to come. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Apple's audio APIs do support HRTF on OSX: http://developer.apple.com/audio/overview.html but apparently HRTF has not made it to the iPhone: http://www.steamboatmountaindesigns.com/blog/2009/02/openal-for-iphone-does-not-support-hrtf.html Would be nice if these guys ported the Mac fmod sound system to iPhone: http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/16489 CB Chris Hofstader wrote: The most accurate spatial audio information uses a technique called Head Relative Transform Functions (HRTF) which simulates relatively precise tonal qualities of sounds that one perceives from a specific direction. Some of the research into what became these functions had humans sitting with dozens of very tiny microphones set up in an array in their ears. there was more than enough similarity for the physicists to resolve the raw data into a number of mathematical equations and the output of said functions is amazing. the problem with HRTF is that it is very compute intensive. Of course, when I first started diddling about with it, I was on what is now a six year old Dell desktop. A dual core, 64 bit laptop should be able to handle these equations in real time much more easily. Microsoft has for a number of years now included HRtF in DirectSound (the audio component of Drect X) and my experiments with them showed very promising results. I don't know the Macintosh API too well so I don't know if they have something similar, identical or not. The Microsoft documentation does warn about relying too much on these functions as they can bog down the processor and cause other threads to behave kind of badly (again, all of the faster new computers should be able to calculate these sounds in real time. I've loads of ideas for a combination of really accurate sound combined with a haptic interface using the Falcon to simulate a whole lot of 3 dimensional real world objects. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: I've heard there is a lot more to spacial placement than just fiddling with the pan to adjust volume levels. At least this seems obvious to me when a little pan to the left makes the sound fly way off to the left of the sound field. Probably a lot more going on in the ear that isn't fooled by that trick. So, that said, do you have any idea if the VoiceOver positional audio is doing real sound field magic or is it just a subtle pan? One underrated feature on the new iPhone is the compass. With this an application can not only know where you are but also which way you (or at least your phone) is pointed. This makes possible real walking directions from where you're at using left and right rather than assuming the user has their cardinal orientation correct. Even feedback to say what is in front of you in the direction you are pointing. Should be good things coming. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have an SDK for Mac and they do .5 mm tactile resolution (most humans can feel no better than .1 mm) so you can do extraordinary things with this device and they only cost about $ 100 (really). I like the idea of using the iPhone for orientation and to provide information about one's surroundings. I'm not especially impressed by the iPhone's Maps application but its location services are pretty excellent. I thought of this while walking through Harvard Yard after lunch today and wondered how a student new to the university would find the library as opposed to the historical center next door as none of these buildings have traditional street addresses and are arrived at by foot paths. Your idea could give a student a lot of good information and can be used as a fallback if they get confused. Cool idea. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: I really wonder why no one's
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi, I'm not sure that an orientation application would need HrtF as buildings and such are big enough to not require pinpoint accuracy. Also, typical mobile computing ear buds are probably not accurate enough (unless you go for something like those from Shure at about $250) to deliver the audio information in enough detail to really use the HrtF capabilities. I think it would be dangerous to wear a good enough headset while walking places where we might encounter vehicles or other dangerous obstacles - dangerous, of course, until we develop virtual landscapes based on laser scans of our surroundings. The latter idea is, as of right now, purely science fiction but I can imagine how it would work and can probably talk some of my electronic hardware hackers to use laser range finders used by hunters to build a real time wireframe models of our surroundings which, of course, would see cars coming almost instantly and then we need to figure out how to tell the user all of the information our vision synthesizer (audio has had synthesizers for a long time, why not vision?) has collected and then couple that with location services and points of interest and the like. Happy Hacking, cdh On Jul 31, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: Apple's audio APIs do support HRTF on OSX: http://developer.apple.com/audio/overview.html but apparently HRTF has not made it to the iPhone: http://www.steamboatmountaindesigns.com/blog/2009/02/openal-for-iphone-does-not-support-hrtf.html Would be nice if these guys ported the Mac fmod sound system to iPhone: http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/16489 CB Chris Hofstader wrote: The most accurate spatial audio information uses a technique called Head Relative Transform Functions (HRTF) which simulates relatively precise tonal qualities of sounds that one perceives from a specific direction. Some of the research into what became these functions had humans sitting with dozens of very tiny microphones set up in an array in their ears. there was more than enough similarity for the physicists to resolve the raw data into a number of mathematical equations and the output of said functions is amazing. the problem with HRTF is that it is very compute intensive. Of course, when I first started diddling about with it, I was on what is now a six year old Dell desktop. A dual core, 64 bit laptop should be able to handle these equations in real time much more easily. Microsoft has for a number of years now included HRtF in DirectSound (the audio component of Drect X) and my experiments with them showed very promising results. I don't know the Macintosh API too well so I don't know if they have something similar, identical or not. The Microsoft documentation does warn about relying too much on these functions as they can bog down the processor and cause other threads to behave kind of badly (again, all of the faster new computers should be able to calculate these sounds in real time. I've loads of ideas for a combination of really accurate sound combined with a haptic interface using the Falcon to simulate a whole lot of 3 dimensional real world objects. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: I've heard there is a lot more to spacial placement than just fiddling with the pan to adjust volume levels. At least this seems obvious to me when a little pan to the left makes the sound fly way off to the left of the sound field. Probably a lot more going on in the ear that isn't fooled by that trick. So, that said, do you have any idea if the VoiceOver positional audio is doing real sound field magic or is it just a subtle pan? One underrated feature on the new iPhone is the compass. With this an application can not only know where you are but also which way you (or at least your phone) is pointed. This makes possible real walking directions from where you're at using left and right rather than assuming the user has their cardinal orientation correct. Even feedback to say what is in front of you in the direction you are pointing. Should be good things coming. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I get an internal server error, with that site. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Why would you want to disable VO? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Which site? On Jul 31, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: I get an internal server error, with that site. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi, There is most certainly a UNIX like driver for the touch screen operations. If you really feel like getting silicon under your fingernails, you can probably hack that part of the system to do what you want. This action, however, is way outside of Apple coding guidelines and may even invalidate the warranty as you would be changing, in a fairly direct sense, how the hardware functions. This is how most Windows screen readers work at least in some areas which inserts that constant level of potential instability as such actions might behave inconsistently because you are not supposed to be wrapping drivers and since the driver doesn't know you (it can't) you may run into some operational collisions. Happy Hacking, cdh On Jul 31, 2009, at 1:09 PM, James Dietvz wrote: The site is http://www.fmod.org. If I was programming an interactive game it would probably speak for itself. I'd want to create my own gestures, and from what I understand VO uses it's own special gestures. On the Mac VO uses special keys, leaving the rest of the keyboard undisturbed and willing to interact normally with the rest of the OS (though this will apparently change with Snow Leopard... grumble). Anyway I just want to get raw input. James On 7/31/09, Chris Hofstader c...@hofstader.com wrote: Which site? On Jul 31, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: I get an internal server error, with that site. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi Chris and all; the API used on both the Mac and IPhone is OpenAL, which is (as you may know) an open-source cross-platform 3D audio API. It's actually only one of the ApIs built in to Leopard by default. The IPHone however, relies on OpenAL exclusively for it's 3D audio. HTH and thanks so much for all of the great material!… Smiles, CQ :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jul 31, 2009, at 4:59 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: The most accurate spatial audio information uses a technique called Head Relative Transform Functions (HRTF) which simulates relatively precise tonal qualities of sounds that one perceives from a specific direction. Some of the research into what became these functions had humans sitting with dozens of very tiny microphones set up in an array in their ears. there was more than enough similarity for the physicists to resolve the raw data into a number of mathematical equations and the output of said functions is amazing. the problem with HRTF is that it is very compute intensive. Of course, when I first started diddling about with it, I was on what is now a six year old Dell desktop. A dual core, 64 bit laptop should be able to handle these equations in real time much more easily. Microsoft has for a number of years now included HRtF in DirectSound (the audio component of Drect X) and my experiments with them showed very promising results. I don't know the Macintosh API too well so I don't know if they have something similar, identical or not. The Microsoft documentation does warn about relying too much on these functions as they can bog down the processor and cause other threads to behave kind of badly (again, all of the faster new computers should be able to calculate these sounds in real time. I've loads of ideas for a combination of really accurate sound combined with a haptic interface using the Falcon to simulate a whole lot of 3 dimensional real world objects. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: I've heard there is a lot more to spacial placement than just fiddling with the pan to adjust volume levels. At least this seems obvious to me when a little pan to the left makes the sound fly way off to the left of the sound field. Probably a lot more going on in the ear that isn't fooled by that trick. So, that said, do you have any idea if the VoiceOver positional audio is doing real sound field magic or is it just a subtle pan? One underrated feature on the new iPhone is the compass. With this an application can not only know where you are but also which way you (or at least your phone) is pointed. This makes possible real walking directions from where you're at using left and right rather than assuming the user has their cardinal orientation correct. Even feedback to say what is in front of you in the direction you are pointing. Should be good things coming. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have an SDK for Mac and they do .5 mm tactile resolution (most humans can feel no better than .1 mm) so you can do extraordinary things with this device and they only cost about $ 100 (really). I like the idea of using the iPhone for orientation and to provide information about one's surroundings. I'm not especially impressed by the iPhone's Maps application but its location services are pretty excellent. I thought of this while walking through Harvard Yard after lunch today and wondered how a student new to the university would find the library as opposed to the historical center next door as none of these buildings have traditional street addresses and are arrived at by foot paths. Your idea could give a student a lot of good information and can be used as a fallback if they get
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I haven't been to the site, because I just woke up, but if AudioQuake is not featured and highly praised on this site, I will be sorely disappointed. Audio Quake, from http://www.agrip.org.uk/ is, from what I've seen, still the best audio game ever devised. The only first-person shooter game that is not a side-scrolling two- dimensional only game, its basic design was vastly improved upon by Cara Quinn and others in 2007-2008. Look upon this game, ye blind, and enjoy. :) Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I don't know of this game or if it's on audiogames.com but I'm sure those guys would add it if it isn't already there. If you're looking for first person shooter, David Greenwood's Shades of Doom is amazing on Windows. He has some other 3D games that are masterfully crafted as well and all have free demo versions. Being a theorist and former VP of Software at Freedom Scientific (I left almost five years ago) I have been working with some other egghead types to figure out how a game can use 32 simultaneous audio tracks without overwhelming the user but a screen reader can only provide a syllable, a pause or a beep at a time. Why can't we build systems that exploit 3D audio for productivity and academic/scholastic purposes? I published an article in AFB's Access World on What Screen Readers can Learn from Audio Games a few years back. If you are interested in a lay version of this new science, read that piece as it covers a lot in a relatively short read. Happy Hacking, cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:26 AM, Mark Baxter wrote: I haven't been to the site, because I just woke up, but if AudioQuake is not featured and highly praised on this site, I will be sorely disappointed. Audio Quake, from http://www.agrip.org.uk/ is, from what I've seen, still the best audio game ever devised. The only first-person shooter game that is not a side-scrolling two- dimensional only game, its basic design was vastly improved upon by Cara Quinn and others in 2007-2008. Look upon this game, ye blind, and enjoy. :) Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I really wonder why no one's heard of AudioQuake with MindGrid. The project has somewhat stalled out over the past two years, but the Jedi Quake, version, written by Cara Quinn and others, is the best 3D audio simulation I've seen. I can't speak for the parallel- processing audio capacity of the brain, but immediately this game and its maps made me start thinking about mobility orientation, applications. Having only ever encountered a mobility orienting instructor for the first time in memory last year, I don't know much about how most blind people do it, but I'm sure my skills aren't that different from the norm, and I saw implications for map-making and environment-learning, which is where I wanted to go with apps for the Iphone. I still have a Windows laptop running XP; I'll check out shades of doom. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have an SDK for Mac and they do .5 mm tactile resolution (most humans can feel no better than .1 mm) so you can do extraordinary things with this device and they only cost about $ 100 (really). I like the idea of using the iPhone for orientation and to provide information about one's surroundings. I'm not especially impressed by the iPhone's Maps application but its location services are pretty excellent. I thought of this while walking through Harvard Yard after lunch today and wondered how a student new to the university would find the library as opposed to the historical center next door as none of these buildings have traditional street addresses and are arrived at by foot paths. Your idea could give a student a lot of good information and can be used as a fallback if they get confused. Cool idea. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: I really wonder why no one's heard of AudioQuake with MindGrid. The project has somewhat stalled out over the past two years, but the Jedi Quake, version, written by Cara Quinn and others, is the best 3D audio simulation I've seen. I can't speak for the parallel- processing audio capacity of the brain, but immediately this game and its maps made me start thinking about mobility orientation, applications. Having only ever encountered a mobility orienting instructor for the first time in memory last year, I don't know much about how most blind people do it, but I'm sure my skills aren't that different from the norm, and I saw implications for map-making and environment-learning, which is where I wanted to go with apps for the Iphone. I still have a Windows laptop running XP; I'll check out shades of doom. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
I've heard there is a lot more to spacial placement than just fiddling with the pan to adjust volume levels. At least this seems obvious to me when a little pan to the left makes the sound fly way off to the left of the sound field. Probably a lot more going on in the ear that isn't fooled by that trick. So, that said, do you have any idea if the VoiceOver positional audio is doing real sound field magic or is it just a subtle pan? One underrated feature on the new iPhone is the compass. With this an application can not only know where you are but also which way you (or at least your phone) is pointed. This makes possible real walking directions from where you're at using left and right rather than assuming the user has their cardinal orientation correct. Even feedback to say what is in front of you in the direction you are pointing. Should be good things coming. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Including the two textbook chapters (one entirely on games and another with a portion on audio games), a couple of peer reviewed articles on the matter, a pile of blog articles (http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com ) and the odd item here and there, I have studied a handful of audio games in depth, fooled around with a few others and talked to a lot of their authors but the breadth of my knowledge is far more narrow than a dozen hardcore gamers I know and rely on for brief descriptions for new entries so I can quickly ascertain how they may move the science in a new and/or different and interesting direction. As I said this morning, I am far too boring to actually build a real game and, when you scratch beyond the surface, you will find that first and for mostly, I think about putting technology in the hands of blinks that will provide them with the tools they may choose to employ in a job or school situation. If you are interested in mixing sound and tactile feedback, get a look at a Falcon 3D tactile controller. I think they have an SDK for Mac and they do .5 mm tactile resolution (most humans can feel no better than .1 mm) so you can do extraordinary things with this device and they only cost about $ 100 (really). I like the idea of using the iPhone for orientation and to provide information about one's surroundings. I'm not especially impressed by the iPhone's Maps application but its location services are pretty excellent. I thought of this while walking through Harvard Yard after lunch today and wondered how a student new to the university would find the library as opposed to the historical center next door as none of these buildings have traditional street addresses and are arrived at by foot paths. Your idea could give a student a lot of good information and can be used as a fallback if they get confused. Cool idea. cdh On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: I really wonder why no one's heard of AudioQuake with MindGrid. The project has somewhat stalled out over the past two years, but the Jedi Quake, version, written by Cara Quinn and others, is the best 3D audio simulation I've seen. I can't speak for the parallel- processing audio capacity of the brain, but immediately this game and its maps made me start thinking about mobility orientation, applications. Having only ever encountered a mobility orienting instructor for the first time in memory last year, I don't know much about how most blind people do it, but I'm sure my skills aren't that different from the norm, and I saw implications for map-making and environment-learning, which is where I wanted to go with apps for the Iphone. I still have a Windows laptop running XP; I'll check out shades of doom. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Hi everyone, Thanks for the amazing response and information pertaining to this indeed very intriguing field. I can't get the concept out of my head as this promises many new applications for the visually impaired provided the technologies discussed herein are actually possible within the API set of the iphone's SDK. I agree that one of themoreimportant aspects of a true audio is positional audio. For the example of a audio based RPG/adventure game, the tactile experience adding further dimension to the experience comparable to a wii interface can be extremely satisfying as there is a contextual assimilation of imaginary interpretations within the application. I think i will document myself extensively on the iphone SDK and figure some avenues yet to be explored for the blind community. If anyone is interested in brainstorming over this subject, and if anyone has some previous experience little or lots on the SDK, you can contact me on skype as shainobi1 and triple7 for twitter. Again, thank you so much for the varied responses and i hope this discussion can generate some form ofdevelopement of a new gaming experience in the future to come. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Just to throw out the rest of my ideas for Iphone apps, what I'd really like to do is develop a way for blind people to build up a map, of their area/environment and, using the Iphone's inertial guidance capacity (accelerometer, compass, tilt meeter, GPS when available, etc.) to Place, a blind person on this map. I've even thought about using RFID tags, if the Iphone can transceive at the right RF frequency, which a blind person could mark, their environment with. This would allow the blind user to add various details to a larger map or build a separate one for inside buildings, etc., places where GPS doesn't reach yet. Another direction to take this would be the use of 3D sound and brief sonic cues to get a sense of where a person is. I haven't figured out yet whether the camera may be used to give additional cues, and all this depends upon the Iphone being held in a stable position, and I haven't even gotten into the SDK yet, so there's my brain storm, for what it's worth. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
Yes, the Iphone uses an OOP--in fact, from what I understand, you can program in anything--C++, for example, so yes; the architecture of the objects would have to swap data back and forth, but it's pretty modular. One way around the processing load might be to establish a link back to the user's home computer--desktop, laptop, whatever, which might be able to do some of the work, depending on band width, comm reception, etc. Thanks for the reading matter; I'm going to have to look into this further. Since I don't have an Iphone, nor a job to generate the money for one, I'll have to find someone's Iphone to field test the stuff on; I intend to contact Apple about beta testing some stuff, too. Right now, I'm sorta in a stuck mode, spinning my wheels (which makes my dog look at me funny), though. working on that, too... Your description of tactile interface between environmental components and the user leads me to wonder, How will the computer know to produce a splashing sound for water, or rustle of leaves for plants? That kind of pattern recognitions and intuitive guess work is far beyond anything I've ever seen done with a computer. This is one of the major problems with an environment like Second Life, even with Max the Guide Dog's assistance; too hard to recognize ambiguous environmental components. Definitely got some reading to do. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 MSN: burninghawk1...@hotmail.com My home page: http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: the advent of audio/tactile games for the VIPs
For the subtle interaction of tactile search and audio feedback of components, i revert to shape actions i used a lot for interaction in flash. The secret of monkey island used to be a comic 2d style of graphics. I believe it has made the jump to 3d but wouldn't it possible to associate a second layer comprised of rgb values to which the area of tactile search would ignite a sound? I see a problem in this as a game of the scale of monkey island (i term this game a lot so that the discussion stays consistent) would be having a huge library of predefined sounds from which the program would pick. But when you are in a linear style of adventure gaming, there is so much to cue oneself from. I also have a lot to read on, and i also see a logistics issue which needs to be adressed were i to get into this. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
