Re: [Marxism] "Stopping Tump: The Chicago Model"

2016-03-14 Thread Ratbag Media via Marxism
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As regards this:
http://inthesetimes.com/article/18968/how-to-stop-trump-the-chicago-model
Thanks so much for sharing ,Kevin Lindemann and Cathy Campo .
I was thinking this list was indulging in protest bashing and turning
into a platform for  winging old fogies...


This far away -- here in Australia -- the Chicago VICTORY resonated as
a collective multi racial, youthful, militant and articulate rebellion
against Trump's agenda.

This was an event of major significance.

It's not about a relentless tactic: pro or con.  It's about winning a
political point and mobilising (remember that verb) a new layer of
activists in the context of the here and now.

And to sign on with  the politics of Rachel Maddow in order to bash
Sanders' left flank...Well, that aint my cup of tea.




dave riley
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[Marxism] Venezuela: Majority support socialist policies

2016-03-14 Thread Stuart Munckton via Marxism
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A recent poll conducted by Hinterlaces, a well-known and usually reliable
Venezuelan pollster, showed that Venezuelans, by a substantial majority,
oppose neoliberal solutions to their country's crisis.

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/61306
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Kevin Lindemann and Cathy Campo via Marxism
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> I was in Chicago for the 1968 DNC and 
> organizing on the Southside in the early 70's before Obama
> so I know a little about Northern Illinois

It is astonishing that people who do not live in Chicago--and people who have 
not lived in Chicago for 40 years or more--are confident that they know enough 
about the state of the movement in Chicago to second guess the actions of 
Chicago activists, young and old, experienced and inexperienced. The 
presumptuousness of that is staggering.

--Kevin Lindemann
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[Marxism] Fwd: The Racist Dawn of Capitalism | Boston Review

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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(A rather puzzling review.)

Empire of Cotton: A Global History
Sven Beckert
Vintage, $17.95 (paper)

The Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism
Edward E. Baptist
Basic Books, $35 (cloth)

River of Dark Dreams: Slavery and Empire in the Cotton Kingdom
Walter Johnson
Harvard University Press, $35 (cloth)

The Price of Emancipation: Slave-Ownership, Compensation and British 
Society at the End of Slavery

Nicholas Draper
Cambridge University Press, $34.99 (paper)

http://bostonreview.net/books-ideas/peter-james-hudson-slavery-capitalism
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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On 3/14/2016 9:13 AM, Manuel Barrera via Marxism wrote:

In reply to Clayborne and others who seem to think they "know" what and how Black and 
Brown youth "should" be doing
Manuel, I wondered why you felt the need to bring race in at this point 
and speak only of a section of the protesters? I did point out that UIC 
was 46% white and I suspect Trump's complaints about "Bernie supporters" 
is code for white protesters. The others are "thugs" in his terminology. 
I said they were all setup but you defended only a part.


In an unrelated note, I should point out that you miss-spelled my name. 
Purely accidental I'm sure but it the past miss-spelling my name or 
refusing to capitalize it has been used as a kind of attack. Other 
minorities have related similar experiences to me. Obviously not the 
issue in this case or many others but I thought you should be aware.


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[Marxism] Southern Irish politics

2016-03-14 Thread Philip Ferguson via Marxism
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Paddy H wrote:
"SF's parliamentary demagogic onslaught at the Dail opening was just mere
noise. Bombast over the homeless and other issues  does not solve such
problems. It was merely a tactical ploy to look good and concerned. Sinn
Fein is merely exploiting suffering, as it has been doing in the six
counties, to venally promote itself."

I think a big concern for the Shinners is the rise of the Trotskyists.

The Trotskyists now have nine seats in Leinster House, which is more than
the Labour Party.  (Although, interestingly, they got less votes than
Labour, just a lot more concentrated in a few areas of strength.)

They won a few seats which the Shinners probably expected to win and Adams
and co. will be looking over their shoulders at the SP and SWP particularly.

One of the crazy things about the Trotskyists is their division.  These 9
members of parliament are divided between four formations: the SWP/People
Before Profit (3), the SP/Anti-Austerity Alliance (3), the WUAG (1), and
Independents 4 Change (two of their 4 members of parliament are
Trotskyists, Joan Collins and Clare Daly, both ex-members of the SP).

The SP and SWP, especially the former, have put the 'needs' of their group
ahead of the needs of the class.  Thus, instead of having 9 ULA (United
Left Alliance) TDs, they killed the ULA and went their own narrow ways,
forming an alliance purely to get elected to a bourgeois parliament after
which they go their own sectish ways again.  Having, of course, secured a
certain level of state funding.  Isn't this what Lenin would have called
'parliamentary cretinism'?

Moreover, the SP has an appalling record on the national question, its
earlier manifestation (the Militant Tendency in the capitalist Irish Labour
Party) even opposing the five demands of the hunger strikers in 1980-81
and, in the north, these days being closely associated with the screws who
are involved in ongoing abuse of republican prisoners.  (See, for instance,
the RNU statement on the Socialist Party and the screws:
https://theirishrevolution.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/the-socialist-party-and-the-screws/
).

Phil
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[Marxism] "Stopping Tump: The Chicago Model"

2016-03-14 Thread Kevin Lindemann and Cathy Campo via Marxism
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http://inthesetimes.com/article/18968/how-to-stop-trump-the-chicago-model
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[Marxism] Capitalism kills leisure society, makes us work longer

2016-03-14 Thread Philip Ferguson via Marxism
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https://rdln.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/whatever-happened-to-the-leisure-society/

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/pensions-and-the-retirement-age-the-problem-is-capitalism-not-an-aging-population/

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/low-pay-longer-hours-and-less-social-mobility/
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Manuel Barrera via Marxism
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Right we don't want to be tailists, Clay, and that is all that was said.
My original point: Young activists taking on the racism of Trump are unlikely 
to listen to someone telling them they are wrong for engaging people like Trump 
because you don't think they have adequate "leadership". We can argue about 
what Trump was intending as some conspiracy theory, a "setup" that activists 
got fooled into or we can recognize that these actions were a significant event 
that require our support. I prefer not to delve into Trump's mind and 
motivations. It's really irrelevant.
 
> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:34:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?
> From: marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
> To: mtom...@hotmail.com
> 
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> 
> On 3/14/2016 9:13 AM, Manuel Barrera via Marxism wrote:
> > if y'all have a better way, get out and help them do it! Or just shut up 
> > and be grateful that Chi-Town, Kansas City, and I really hope other cities 
> > still have the courage and fight in them.   
> > 
> Why do I call it tailism? Let me count the ways: 1) If you're not in the 
> streets, you're not in the struggle 2) If you're not in the streets you 
> have no right to speak 3) if you're not in the streets its obviously 
> because you lack courage 4) if you're not in the streets you should just 
> cheer on those who are or shut up.
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Re: [Marxism] Putin Orders Start of Syria Withdrawal, Saying Goals Are Achieved

2016-03-14 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism
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this news of course has sent all the liberals on the ufpj-activist list,
into a tizzy, breathlessly expressing their admiration of Putin's bold and
generous gesture and urging Obama to do the same.
Why not, what's a few thousand Syrian corpses in the geostrategic game?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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> *
>
> (Declining oil prices might get the Nobel Peace Prize.)
>
> NY Times, Mar. 14 2016
> Putin Orders Start of Syria Withdrawal, Saying Goals Are Achieved
> By ANDREW HIGGINS
>
> MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia on Monday ordered the
> withdrawal of the “main part” of Russian forces in Syria, a surprise move
> that he said was justified by the “overall completion” of Moscow’s military
> mission in the war-ravaged country.
>
> Mr. Putin’s order, reported by the state news media, came as the war in
> Syria was about to enter its sixth year and a United Nations mediator in
> Geneva was trying to revive peace talks to stop the conflict, which has
> displaced millions and created a humanitarian catastrophe.
>
> Russia has operated a naval base on the Syrian coast since the Soviet
> period, but Mr. Putin’s order seemed to relate to warplanes operating from
> a new air base in Latakia that since September have carried out intensive
> bombings against rebels fighting to topple President Bashar al-Assad of
> Syria.
>
> Mr. Putin said the withdrawal would not mean the closing of the Latakia
> base, and he gave no indication when the withdrawal would be concluded.
>
> Since Russian warplanes began their campaign on Sept. 30, Mr. Assad has
> gained ground against rebel forces and headed off the risk that his regime,
> Russia’s closest ally in the Middle East, might collapse.
>
> “I believe, that the tasks put before the defense ministry have been
> completed over all,” Mr. Putin told Defense Minister Sergei K. Shoigu and
> Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov at a meeting in the Kremlin on Monday
> evening. “Because of this, I have ordered that from tomorrow the main part
> of our military groups will begin their withdrawal from the Syrian Arab
> Republic.”
>
> The Kremlin said Mr. Putin had telephoned the Syrian president to inform
> him of the Russian withdrawal, but gave no details of Mr. Assad’s reaction
> to the move, saying only that he had expressed thanks for Russia’s help and
> had praised the “professionalism and heroism” of Russian servicemen.
>
> “The leaders noted that the actions of the Russian air forces have allowed
> a significant turn in the fight against terrorists,” a statement on the
> Kremlin website said.
>
> In tandem with the military withdrawal, Mr. Putin called on Russian
> diplomats to strengthen their efforts in reaching a negotiated settlement.
>
> “I am asking the Foreign Ministry to intensify the participation of the
> Russian Federation in the organization of the peace process on the
> settlement of the Syrian problem,” he said at the meeting.
>
> Although the timing of Mr. Putin’s announcement was a surprise, some
> analysts had been expecting it, suggesting that Russia had accomplished
> what it wanted in Syria and that prolonging the deployment might lead to
> unanticipated problems.
>
> The partial cease-fire in Syria, which began Feb. 27, has proved more
> effective and durable than expected, significantly reducing the level of
> violence.
>
> At the same time, Mr. Assad and his aides have shown increased
> unwillingness to negotiate a political settlement, which may have irked his
> Russian allies.
>
> “Over the past few weeks, the Assad regime has made a number of statements
> indicating their negotiating position with the opposition remains quite
> rigid,” said Andrew J. Tabler, a scholar of Arab politics at the Washington
> Institute for Near East Policy. “Putin’s announcement, coming on the same
> day U.N. peace talks started in Geneva and in the absence of a decisive
> victory by Assad’s forces, indicates that Moscow might not be with Assad
> till the bitter end,” Mr. Tabler said.
>
> Russia’s military intervention in Syria, which involved the deployment of
> 45 strategic and tactical bombers as well as fighter planes, helicopters
> and antiaircraft systems, was Moscow’s first such action outside the former
> Soviet Union since the collapse of communism in 1991.
>

Re: [Marxism] Tailing Rachel Maddow

2016-03-14 Thread Glenn Kissack via Marxism
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> Your theory is basically that he's an idiot and doesn't know what he's doing. 

There’s a lot of evidence for the idiot theory.

Or maybe it’s a combination of idiocy, racism and arrogance.



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[Marxism] Putin Orders Start of Syria Withdrawal, Saying Goals Are Achieved

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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(Declining oil prices might get the Nobel Peace Prize.)

NY Times, Mar. 14 2016
Putin Orders Start of Syria Withdrawal, Saying Goals Are Achieved
By ANDREW HIGGINS

MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia on Monday ordered the 
withdrawal of the “main part” of Russian forces in Syria, a surprise 
move that he said was justified by the “overall completion” of Moscow’s 
military mission in the war-ravaged country.


Mr. Putin’s order, reported by the state news media, came as the war in 
Syria was about to enter its sixth year and a United Nations mediator in 
Geneva was trying to revive peace talks to stop the conflict, which has 
displaced millions and created a humanitarian catastrophe.


Russia has operated a naval base on the Syrian coast since the Soviet 
period, but Mr. Putin’s order seemed to relate to warplanes operating 
from a new air base in Latakia that since September have carried out 
intensive bombings against rebels fighting to topple President Bashar 
al-Assad of Syria.


Mr. Putin said the withdrawal would not mean the closing of the Latakia 
base, and he gave no indication when the withdrawal would be concluded.


Since Russian warplanes began their campaign on Sept. 30, Mr. Assad has 
gained ground against rebel forces and headed off the risk that his 
regime, Russia’s closest ally in the Middle East, might collapse.


“I believe, that the tasks put before the defense ministry have been 
completed over all,” Mr. Putin told Defense Minister Sergei K. Shoigu 
and Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov at a meeting in the Kremlin on 
Monday evening. “Because of this, I have ordered that from tomorrow the 
main part of our military groups will begin their withdrawal from the 
Syrian Arab Republic.”


The Kremlin said Mr. Putin had telephoned the Syrian president to inform 
him of the Russian withdrawal, but gave no details of Mr. Assad’s 
reaction to the move, saying only that he had expressed thanks for 
Russia’s help and had praised the “professionalism and heroism” of 
Russian servicemen.


“The leaders noted that the actions of the Russian air forces have 
allowed a significant turn in the fight against terrorists,” a statement 
on the Kremlin website said.


In tandem with the military withdrawal, Mr. Putin called on Russian 
diplomats to strengthen their efforts in reaching a negotiated settlement.


“I am asking the Foreign Ministry to intensify the participation of the 
Russian Federation in the organization of the peace process on the 
settlement of the Syrian problem,” he said at the meeting.


Although the timing of Mr. Putin’s announcement was a surprise, some 
analysts had been expecting it, suggesting that Russia had accomplished 
what it wanted in Syria and that prolonging the deployment might lead to 
unanticipated problems.


The partial cease-fire in Syria, which began Feb. 27, has proved more 
effective and durable than expected, significantly reducing the level of 
violence.


At the same time, Mr. Assad and his aides have shown increased 
unwillingness to negotiate a political settlement, which may have irked 
his Russian allies.


“Over the past few weeks, the Assad regime has made a number of 
statements indicating their negotiating position with the opposition 
remains quite rigid,” said Andrew J. Tabler, a scholar of Arab politics 
at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. “Putin’s announcement, 
coming on the same day U.N. peace talks started in Geneva and in the 
absence of a decisive victory by Assad’s forces, indicates that Moscow 
might not be with Assad till the bitter end,” Mr. Tabler said.


Russia’s military intervention in Syria, which involved the deployment 
of 45 strategic and tactical bombers as well as fighter planes, 
helicopters and antiaircraft systems, was Moscow’s first such action 
outside the former Soviet Union since the collapse of communism in 1991.


The state-controlled news media in Russia trumpeted the intervention as 
a sign that Moscow had regained its role as a global military power. 
Television news broadcasters, after weeks of hailing the operation 
daily, seemed stunned Monday evening when news of the withdrawal first 
broke.


Russian warplanes gave a major boost to Mr. Assad’s fading military 
fortunes, flying more than 9,000 sorties and helping the Syrian 
government regain control of 400 settlements, according to Mr. Shoigu, 
the Russian defense minister.


The decision to withdraw, announced as abruptly as Russia’s initial 
decision to intervene, could allow Mr. Putin to avoid the risk that what 
has been a relatively painless and, in both military and public 
relations terms, highly successful mission

Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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On 3/14/2016 9:13 AM, Manuel Barrera via Marxism wrote:

if y'all have a better way, get out and help them do it! Or just shut up and be 
grateful that Chi-Town, Kansas City, and I really hope other cities still have 
the courage and fight in them.   
Why do I call it tailism? Let me count the ways: 1) If you're not in the 
streets, you're not in the struggle 2) If you're not in the streets you 
have no right to speak 3) if you're not in the streets its obviously 
because you lack courage 4) if you're not in the streets you should just 
cheer on those who are or shut up.

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[Marxism] Fwd: Review: Where to Invade Next

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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A conversation between Andrew Stewart and me about Michael Moore.

http://www.rifuture.org/review-where-to-invade-next.html
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Re: [Marxism] Tailing Rachel Maddow

2016-03-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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On 3/14/2016 10:14 AM, Sean Noonan via Marxism wrote:

Clay Claiborne claims that since Trump wanted the confrontation to happen
(which Clay doesn't demonstrate, only asserts) -  it was a mistake for the
confrontation to proceed.
I don't believe I ever drew that conclusion. I did make a case for 
saying Trump had set it up but I also said I was withholding judgement 
about the wisdom of the action until more facts were known.

  It is entirely possible Trump failed to fully anticipate
what an open-admission rally on one of the most diverse campuses in the
country would look like after he has spent months race-baiting,
muslim-baiting, immigrant-baiting and inciting violence at his rallies.
I guess it is just as possible that the venue for his Cincinnati Town 
Hall was in the suburbs 25 miles from downtown, or that none of his 
other venues have been at majority minority locations is entirely 
accidental.

Last Fall Trump was stupid enough to try to pander to voters in Downstate
Illinois by talking about how nice Chicago is (His audience booed).

But we can't always count on that stupidity.

Trump
didn't think enough about his audience's attitudes downstate in the fall
and on Friday he didn't anticipate the large number of students opposed to
him who would show up when he came to their campus.
Because his people don't follow the news reports, didn't know about the 
Move-On petition, etc.

   Trump isn't paying
sufficient attention to the details of who and where he speaks. So, when it
dawned on him that he would be facing a large opposition inside the UIC
pavillion, he cancelled the event.
And it just dawned on him, after the venue had already been filled by 
thousands of fans and protesters, but still before he arrived to see for 
himself, which is very unfortunate because most accounts I heard say 
that violence only broke out after it was announced that Trump wasn't 
going to show and it came from his frustrated fans that now blamed the 
protesters for being cheated out of their show.


And I'm sure its possible that Trump didn't know that by cancelling it 
at that time and in that way [did that mean that his own security staff 
then withdrew from the arena? does anybody know?] that he was lighting a 
fuse to the power keg he had already set up.



Claiborne is buying into Maddow's portrayal of the event as a brawl.
Where did I do that? I agree with her assessment that it was a setup and 
I especially think her collection of Trump quotes very useful.

Several thousand people just took their first steps into social movement
and street politics and Clay wants to browbeat and harangue them about the
putative mistake of putting a couple of thousand people inside the UIC
Pavilion to chant down Donald Trump.
I just said he setup it up. That's what he wanted to happen. That is my 
point.

It is better to congratulate the
protesters who just stopped a racist piece of shit from speaking on their
campus.
But did they just help him become president at the same time by falling 
into a trap?


I would like to think that is a question that can at least be posed on a 
Marxist list.


I still think Trump choose this confrontation when choose a 46% white 
university with a well known activist community as a rally venue the 
week before the IL primary and that's why it happened. Your theory is 
basically that he's an idiot and doesn't know what he's doing. I think 
that's a very dangerous attitude towards a fascist demagog that is this 
close to being the GOP nominee.

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Re: [Marxism] Exposing the Libyan Agenda: a Closer Look at Hillary’s Emails

2016-03-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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On 3/14/2016 3:18 AM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism wrote:

Very good analysis

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/14/exposing-the-libyan-agenda-a-closer-look-at-hillarys-emails/


Oh really?

It starts out by letting Gaddafi off the hook for mass atrocities that 
most certainly did happen, what he was threatening to do to Benghazi and 
what he had already done to Ajdabiya before the French intervention.

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/03/how-noam-chomsky-cleans-up-mummar.html

Then it tries to make atrocities out of  ‘thousands of detainees 
[including children] languish in prisons without proper judicial 
review,’ never mind this is also how illegal migrants were treated under 
Qaddafi or that under his regime most of the  ‘kidnappings and targeted 
killing" were done by the state.


We have to hear again all the dis-proven BS about wonderful life in 
Libya was before 2011.


I wanted to find out who was really speaking in the 1st email cited. but 
it linked to blog that has a link to the email that was broken. I have 
to say that's not unusual for counterpunch. Taken at face value, 
somebody wrote Hillary quoting somebody that said Sarkozy wasn't 
attacking Gaddafi for humanitarian reasons.


Big fucking deal. Who cares? That is far, far from why the Libyan people 
made a revolution. But then counterpunch won't go there.


I was especially interested in his claim that
Other explosive confirmations in the newly-published emails are 
detailed by investigative journalist Robert Parry 
. 
They include admissions of rebel war crimes, of special ops trainers 
inside Libya from nearly the start of protests, and of Al Qaeda 
embedded in the US-backed opposition.
I don't much care about the "admission of rebel war crimes" angle. That 
is played by UN types that like to sing "I've seen war crimes on both 
sides now" as they walk away and promoted by fascists that are 
committing 98% of the war crimes. If a cop follows someone for 500 miles 
he can certainly find a reason to give him a ticket. You watch the 
noblest army long enough and you will spot war crimes. And your point 
is? But the claim of NATO trainers for the protesters from the 
beginning, when they didn't even have boots on the ground after they 
started the air campaign? That bears looking into!


That link goes to a Common Dreams article that says the same thing, and 
that links a list of over 3000 state dept emails and this: 
http://levantreport.com/2016/01/04/new-hillary-emails-reveal-propaganda-executions-coveting-libyan-oil-and-gold/
Blumenthal relates that “an extremely sensitive source” confirmed that 
British, French, and Egyptian special operations units were training 
Libyan militants along the Egyptian-Libyan border, as well as in 
Benghazi suburbs.
So Blumenthal cites an un-named source is the source of this "explosive 
confirmation.?" Give me a break. [Why am I reading this on my day off?]


The counterpunch article basically tries to resurrect the conspiracy 
theory that Gaddafi was overthrown, not by the Libyan people, but by the 
Western powers because he was about the create a pan-African gold standard.


I don't think this is very good analysis.
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism

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On 3/13/2016 9:49 PM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote:

We should not expect the younger activists to listen to us unless they see us 
as fellow fighters, as people on their side.
Standing with them on the street, we may get a hearing for our views.

And maybe not even then.

My own experiences both as a young activist @ Pentagon '67 and an old 
activist @ OLA '11 is that many young activists will largely discount 
the advice of old people, even activists, in any case. Of course they 
are wrong to do so but they are young. This will be all the more the 
case if we are not providing, or even attempting to provide leadership 
but instead tailing behind their "leadership" and merely cheering them on.


So, I don't know what requirements young activists should have for 
listening to those with more experience but I don't think it should be 
limited to those who already support their specific tactics. Even if 
that is the case, I think we would be tailing behind to endorse that. 
And in that regard, I would like to take special exception to your last 
sentence above and explain why the requirement to be "Standing with them 
on the street." to get a hearing really rubs me the wrong way.


It has to do with Occupy LA. Occupy LA was rather unique among the big 
city occupations in that the city conceded to us the legal right to 
occupy city hall park - city council passed a resolution 2 weeks into 
the occupation. I have written about this in great detail on my blog, 
the DailyKos and WL Central. As a result the infamous LAPD was on their 
very best behavior.


This "peaceful" co-existence was allowing us to build an extremely broad 
and stable occupation - before things turned we had 300-400 tents all 
around city hall and regular protests of 10K-15K, even middle class 
older whites, people you might today see at Trump rallies, were starting 
to show up with their tents and sleeping bags.


From the POV of this old activist this "legal" occupation [full 
discourse - I helped engineer it the evening before day 1 and joined the 
OLA city liaison team in its final days in an effort to extend it.] was 
paying big dividends for the movement both locally and nationally.


Of course, not everybody saw it that way. In particular there was a 
group of young activists, anarchists some of them, that wanted what 
Oakland had. They wanted confrontation with the police and they actively 
worked to undermine the peace with the police. They were 
opportunistically joined and supported by "Marxists" from the PSL and 
WPP that came to the occupation late and were looking for a way in. 
Eventually they got their way, but that's a longer story. Anyway back to 
this line  "Standing with them on the street."


We had many marches during the 60+ days of the occupation, more than 1 a 
day, some were huge and filled the streets others were smaller, and 
permit of not, the LAPD was cooperating. If we had a lot of people they 
would block the streets, if we had not so many, they would ask us to 
confine it to the sidewalks. But no matter what, there would be this 
small anarchist/ulta-left "streets belong to the people" group that 
wanted confrontation with the police. Even if we only had a hundred 
people, they would still try to march in the streets.


We are bring families with strollers out to march against the big banks 
and the 1% for the first time and these youth wearing black bandana want 
to get their rocks off by street fighting with the police and for sure 
they don't want to hear from anyone not already "Standing with them on 
the street." Just sad to see that backwardness endorsed on a Marxist list.

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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism
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All this demagogy about old white men telling young people of color not to
confront fascists is simply a lie. Clay and I among others have made clear
it's a question of how and where to confront them (and that we personally
HAVE confronted racists and fascists. We NEVER said 5 miles away, Einde.
It's a question of do you fight them inside their meetings, or instead
outside our institutions, meeting places, picket lines, etc., when they
attack. If any of you would read the documents I've posted here and on
facebook you'll see I'm promoting a proud heritage of beating fascists
until they're in the hospital and their ranks drift away out of fear. Being
able to do so means not friterring away your advantage in propaganda stance
and personnel in adventurist stupidities.
And I guarantee you half of those saying Trump must be denied a platform
will be backing Clinton soon.


On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Einde O'Callaghan via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> On 14.03.2016 17:13, Manuel Barrera via Marxism wrote:
>
>> In reply to Clayborne and others who seem to think they "know" what and
>> how Black and Brown youth "should" be doing about this racist Trump
>> campaign (from my reply to Partido on Facebook):
>>
>> The Marxmail discussion is an exercise in theoretical posturing:
>> essentially, old people telling young people that they should've had more
>> "leadership" and, then from there, nothing. The implication is that somehow
>> the young black and brown activists along with the well-established
>> coalition-building left in Chicago should have not fallen into a trap
>>
> The debates here are nothing new. I remember hearing arguments like this
> before from "older" or "more experienced" "activists" when we were
> campaigning against the National Front in Britain in the mid-1970s. Both
> before and after we - then young activists (brought together to a certain
> extent by the British SWP) - confronted and stopped the NF in Lewisham, we
> were denounced for being "red fascists" and "thoughtless street fighters"
> by many (not all) left Labourists and the Communist Party. We should have
> shown our disgust by meeting 5 miles away and marching in the otehr
> direction. Instead we confronted them and stopped them. After that, partly
> through the Anti-Nazi League we built on a combination of mass
> mobilisations (and sometimes militant confrontations) and mass agitation
> and education. And we eventually killed the NF stone dead.
>
> If we'd listened to the "experienced old hands", we wouldn't have done it
> and the far right would have established much deeper roots in British
> society than they've been able to do since.
>
> What I hear are tired old men preaching what is essentially pacifist
> reformism from the sidelines. I can only say that I was thrilled to see
> what the young (and not so young) comrades pulled off in Chicago.
>
> Einde O'Callaghan
>
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[Marxism] Fwd: Censored Voices | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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“Censored Voices”, now available on VOD 
(http://www.musicboxfilms.com/censored-voices-movies-126.php), is the 
latest in a series of Israeli films that rue the transformation of David 
into Goliath. Typically they feature members of the IDF or Mossad 
wringing their hands over the evil that circumstances forced them to do. 
This includes narrative films such as “Waltz with Bashir and “Zaytoun” 
or documentaries like “The Gatekeepers”. “Censored Voices” is based on 
tapes made in 1967 by veterans of the Six Day War who after returning to 
their kibbutzim recorded their disaffection over what they had done and 
where Israel was going. Up until recently, the tapes have not been 
available in their entirety. Once you hear them, you understand why. The 
IDF veterans come across as men disgusted by their own brutality in the 
service of venal goals having little to do with Zionist propaganda.


As a perfect symbol of their outlook, the film begins with famed 
novelist and liberal Amos Oz listening to his taped lamentations as a 
soldier just returned to his kibbutz nearly 50 years earlier. He sits 
there silently listening to his recorded voice, as do all the other men 
now in their seventies accepting that Israel’s depraved status today was 
sealed by its tarnished victory in 1967. What they probably are not 
willing to acknowledge is that its depravity was preordained by its 
first victory in 1948.


full: https://louisproyect.org/2016/03/14/censored-voices/
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Einde O'Callaghan via Marxism

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On 14.03.2016 17:13, Manuel Barrera via Marxism wrote:

In reply to Clayborne and others who seem to think they "know" what and how Black and 
Brown youth "should" be doing about this racist Trump campaign (from my reply to Partido 
on Facebook):

The Marxmail discussion is an exercise in theoretical posturing: essentially, old people 
telling young people that they should've had more "leadership" and, then from 
there, nothing. The implication is that somehow the young black and brown activists along 
with the well-established coalition-building left in Chicago should have not fallen into 
a trap
The debates here are nothing new. I remember hearing arguments like this 
before from "older" or "more experienced" "activists" when we were 
campaigning against the National Front in Britain in the mid-1970s. Both 
before and after we - then young activists (brought together to a 
certain extent by the British SWP) - confronted and stopped the NF in 
Lewisham, we were denounced for being "red fascists" and "thoughtless 
street fighters" by many (not all) left Labourists and the Communist 
Party. We should have shown our disgust by meeting 5 miles away and 
marching in the otehr direction. Instead we confronted them and stopped 
them. After that, partly through the Anti-Nazi League we built on a 
combination of mass mobilisations (and sometimes militant 
confrontations) and mass agitation and education. And we eventually 
killed the NF stone dead.


If we'd listened to the "experienced old hands", we wouldn't have done 
it and the far right would have established much deeper roots in British 
society than they've been able to do since.


What I hear are tired old men preaching what is essentially pacifist 
reformism from the sidelines. I can only say that I was thrilled to see 
what the young (and not so young) comrades pulled off in Chicago.


Einde O'Callaghan
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[Marxism] Tailing Rachel Maddow

2016-03-14 Thread Sean Noonan via Marxism
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Clay Claiborne claims that since Trump wanted the confrontation to happen
(which Clay doesn't demonstrate, only asserts) -  it was a mistake for the
confrontation to proceed.

Rather than seeing Trump as some strategic genius playing 3D chess while we
struggle with checkers, it is more likely that Trump is simply a
narcissistic fool. It is entirely possible Trump failed to fully anticipate
what an open-admission rally on one of the most diverse campuses in the
country would look like after he has spent months race-baiting,
muslim-baiting, immigrant-baiting and inciting violence at his rallies.
Last Fall Trump was stupid enough to try to pander to voters in Downstate
Illinois by talking about how nice Chicago is (His audience booed).  Trump
didn't think enough about his audience's attitudes downstate in the fall
and on Friday he didn't anticipate the large number of students opposed to
him who would show up when he came to their campus.   Trump isn't paying
sufficient attention to the details of who and where he speaks. So, when it
dawned on him that he would be facing a large opposition inside the UIC
pavillion, he cancelled the event.

Claiborne is buying into Maddow's portrayal of the event as a brawl. It was
not.  There were plenty of aggressive words and verbal confrontation, but
not many blows were thrown and very few people actually brawled. There were
only a handful of arrests and a few injuries. I've seen more violence at
smaller demos (like at Trib plaza at start of 2nd Intifada).  Maddow and
Claiborne are too comfortable tisk tisking the lack of civility among the
people willing to confront racist violence inciters in person.

Several thousand people just took their first steps into social movement
and street politics and Clay wants to browbeat and harangue them about the
putative mistake of putting a couple of thousand people inside the UIC
Pavilion to chant down Donald Trump.  It is better to congratulate the
protesters who just stopped a racist piece of shit from speaking on their
campus.  More experienced activists should be reaching out and coordinating
with the newbies.  4/1 will be next big chance to take to the streets
against the right, this time against Governor Rauner and Rahm Emanuel.

Sean Noonan
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Mark Lause via Marxism
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Mass actions that are not well-organized always carry risks.  The task here
is to find ways to organize them and make them coherent.

Depending on where we are, we've seen these problems with Occupy and BLM
(and with the Greens, who function coherently slightly less well than a
herd of cats).  The challenge here is to bring some experience to bear in
organizing.

Some of you know how to do these things.  :-)

ML
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[Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Ken Hiebert via Marxism
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Manuel Barrera said:

In reply to Clayborne and others who seem to think they "know" what and how 
Black and Brown youth "should" be doing about this racist Trump campaign (from 
my reply to Partido on Facebook):

The Marxmail discussion is an exercise in theoretical posturing: essentially, 
old people telling young people that they should've had more "leadership" and, 
then from there, nothing. The implication is that somehow the young black and 
brown activists along with the well-established coalition-building left in 
Chicago should have not fallen into a trap (right, no real strategy about what 
do next, just don't fall into a trap, as if the trap of supporting Sanders 
weren't already a big one). I doubt Trump is all that Machiavellian or even 
conscious, but assuming he is, what exactly do "we" think Black and Brown youth 
should have done instead than respond with mass action?! Politely seek a 
"dialogue"? What is happening now in response to Trump's racist tirades is 
young people refusing to be silent. Period. Would there have been a 
"leadership" (apparently according to some on Marxmail, that seems to mean 
them) to be more "strategic" about it begs credulity and, moreso guts to have 
engaged "
 silent protest". Trump may not be as serious about his racism, but his 
followers, mostly frustrated White people fearing the end of their privilege in 
the world, seem very serious in promoting racial hatred and xenophobia. Do you 
really believe it best to follow King's passivity as a strategy over Malcolm's 
regarding organized self-defense? At a time when Trump promotes the beating of 
people of color at his rallies? What exactly do you think should be enough to 
begin mounting a defense and POLITICAL ACTION to counter this rather overt 
racist threat? I have called for every living democrat--inside, outside, and 
opposition to the Democratic and Republican parties--to stand up and come to 
the defense of the right to protest Trump's racist, xenophobic calls to begin 
what amounts to Apartheid for Muslims and Brown people as well as the continued 
repression of the Black community. We should support Sanders' rallies from 
being disrupted by the racist Trump followers even as we may oppose S
 anders' candidacy. We should participate in !
 the mass actions organized against Trump's rallies so that our experience can 
be heard and a movement can truly emerge from this otherwise spectator sport 
called the bourgeois elections. 
Maybe this Trump threat will come to nothing. But do we really wish to exhort 
young people for their "exuberance" while just standing on the sidelines 
bemoaning how "wrong" they are?

My time may be past to lead this charge, but I will be damned if I criticize 
these brave fighters for doing what they believe must be done and what we KNOW 
has to be prepared. In other words, if y'all have a better way, get out and 
help them do it! Or just shut up and be grateful that Chi-Town, Kansas City, 
and I really hope other cit

Ken Hiebert:
The debate as I understand it is not for or against mass action, but whether 
mass action should include going Trump's rallies to disrupt them.
Perhaps there are some who are against even demonstrating, but i can't think of 
anyone in this discussion who has argued that view.

I want to agree with two things in your last paragraph.  These are brave 
fighters and we should get out and help them do it.
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Jeffrey Masko via Marxism
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Part of my PhD work is on the ideological work of representations of the
rural WWCPC (white working class and poverty class) in film and television
and I find this to overwhelming true. The fact that the Left as represented
by some on this listserv have rarely supported this sector and in fact
continue to demonize and scapegoat them as rural hicks and rednecks has a
long classist history connected to the idea of white trash, or working
class whiteness. When the left refuses to hear these voices, expect them to
turn to someone who will. In this case Trump.

I am not surprised that this type of analysis is not getting much attention
and will not be surprised if no-one addresses your comment. I just
appreciated seeing it there and I'm too involved in writing my dissertation
to defend about why calling out "white trash" is ultimately
counterproductive and in fact, is a missed opportunity in gaining support
from all sectors of the working class. Thanks for your post.

-jeffrey

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Greg McDonald via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> I honestly do not think the Trump campaign engineered the confrontation in
> Chicago. Now, if Juan Cole's analysis is correct--that Trump supporters are
> all Klan and biker gang wannabe's, then perhaps. But if we look at Thomas
> Frank's analysis, the primary concern of the white working class voters who
> support Trump is the economy. I'm pretty sure that above all the dog
> whistle politics, the Trump campaign understands this.
>
> "People are much more frightened than they are bigoted"...
>
> “But there is another way to interpret the Trump phenomenon. A map of his
> support may coordinate with racist Google searches, but it coordinates even
> better with deindustrialization and despair, with the zones of economic
> misery that 30 years of Washington’s free-market consensus have brought the
> rest of America.”
>
> It is worth noting that Trump is making a point of assailing that Indiana
> air conditioning company from the video
>  in his speeches. What this
> suggests is that he’s telling a tale as much about economic outrage as it
> is tale of racism on the march. Many of Trump’s followers are bigots, no
> doubt, but many more are probably excited by the prospect of a president
> who seems to mean it when he denounces our trade agreements and promises to
> bring the hammer down on the CEO that fired you and wrecked your town,
> unlike Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
>
> Here is the most salient supporting fact: when people talk to white,
> working-class Trump supporters, instead of simply imagining what they might
> say, they find that what most concerns these people is the economy and
> their place in it. I am referring to a study just published by Working
> America, a political-action auxiliary of the AFL-CIO, which interviewed
> some 1,600 white working-class voters in the suburbs of Cleveland and
> Pittsburgh in December and January.
>
> Support for Donald Trump, the group found, ran strong among these people,
> even among self-identified Democrats, but not because they are all pining
> for a racist in the White House. Their favorite aspect of Trump was his
> “attitude”, the blunt and forthright way he talks. As far as issues are
> concerned, “immigration” placed third among the matters such voters care
> about, far behind their number one concern: “good jobs / the economy”.
>
> “People are much more frightened than they are bigoted,” is how the
> findings were described to me by Karen Nussbaum, the executive director of
> Working America. The survey “confirmed what we heard all the time: people
> are fed up, people are hurting, they are very distressed about the fact
> that their kids don’t have a future” and that “there still hasn’t been a
> recovery from the recession, that every family still suffers from it in one
> way or another.”
>
> Tom Lewandowski, the president of the Northeast Indiana Central Labor
> Council in Fort Wayne, puts it even more bluntly when I asked him about
> working-class Trump fans. “These people aren’t racist, not any more than
> anybody else is,” he says of Trump supporters he knows. “When Trump talks
> about trade, we think about the Clinton administration, first with Nafta
> and then with [Permanent Normal Trade R

Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Manuel Barrera via Marxism
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In reply to Clayborne and others who seem to think they "know" what and how 
Black and Brown youth "should" be doing about this racist Trump campaign (from 
my reply to Partido on Facebook):

The Marxmail discussion is an exercise in theoretical posturing: essentially, 
old people telling young people that they should've had more "leadership" and, 
then from there, nothing. The implication is that somehow the young black and 
brown activists along with the well-established coalition-building left in 
Chicago should have not fallen into a trap (right, no real strategy about what 
do next, just don't fall into a trap, as if the trap of supporting Sanders 
weren't already a big one). I doubt Trump is all that Machiavellian or even 
conscious, but assuming he is, what exactly do "we" think Black and Brown youth 
should have done instead than respond with mass action?! Politely seek a 
"dialogue"? What is happening now in response to Trump's racist tirades is 
young people refusing to be silent. Period. Would there have been a 
"leadership" (apparently according to some on Marxmail, that seems to mean 
them) to be more "strategic" about it begs credulity and, moreso guts to have 
engaged "
 silent protest". Trump may not be as serious about his racism, but his 
followers, mostly frustrated White people fearing the end of their privilege in 
the world, seem very serious in promoting racial hatred and xenophobia. Do you 
really believe it best to follow King's passivity as a strategy over Malcolm's 
regarding organized self-defense? At a time when Trump promotes the beating of 
people of color at his rallies? What exactly do you think should be enough to 
begin mounting a defense and POLITICAL ACTION to counter this rather overt 
racist threat? I have called for every living democrat--inside, outside, and 
opposition to the Democratic and Republican parties--to stand up and come to 
the defense of the right to protest Trump's racist, xenophobic calls to begin 
what amounts to Apartheid for Muslims and Brown people as well as the continued 
repression of the Black community. We should support Sanders' rallies from 
being disrupted by the racist Trump followers even as we may oppose S
 anders' candidacy. We should participate in !
 the mass actions organized against Trump's rallies so that our experience can 
be heard and a movement can truly emerge from this otherwise spectator sport 
called the bourgeois elections. 
Maybe this Trump threat will come to nothing. But do we really wish to exhort 
young people for their "exuberance" while just standing on the sidelines 
bemoaning how "wrong" they are?

My time may be past to lead this charge, but I will be damned if I criticize 
these brave fighters for doing what they believe must be done and what we KNOW 
has to be prepared. In other words, if y'all have a better way, get out and 
help them do it! Or just shut up and be grateful that Chi-Town, Kansas City, 
and I really hope other cities still have the courage and fight in them.
 
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[Marxism] Fwd: Trump Rallies: the Case for Silent Protests

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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It is a mistake to shout down Trump and disrupt his rallies.  Outside 
the rallies, anything goes: as we used to chant, “The streets belong to 
the people.”  But inside, opposition to the horrific specter of Trumpism 
is best served by silent protest.




http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/14/trump-rallies-the-case-for-silent-protests/
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[Marxism] Ireland, Parliament and Workers' Councils

2016-03-14 Thread Paddy Hackett via Marxism
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Hi

In the Irish Republic FF is seeking Dáil reform as a means of rendering it more 
difficult to blame it should it go into government to implement unpopular 
policies. It can then claim that the opposition, because of this reform, had 
joint influence  over unpopular policies. The “radical” left sitting in the 
Dáil, conspicuously failed to expose this tactical ploy dressed up as a liberal 
proposal.

There is a good chance that FF will bring about a new general election in the 
not too distant future. This is because it is confident that there is a 
progressive electoral shift towards it. It is also in a buoyant mood because of 
its inchoate election recovery. It more than likely has the resources to fight 
another election. Many of the independents and small parties probably lack 
sufficient resources for another repetition of this political exercise. This 
may mean that they may  loose seats that the FF party can pick up. Even if it 
fails to win sufficient seats to form a comfortable majority Fianna Fail may 
still  fare well enough to form the leading party in a future government. Other 
things being  equal it may too have learned from the mistakes of the FG-Labour 
coalition.

SF's parliamentary demagogic onslaught at the Dáil opening was just mere noise. 
Bombast over the homeless and other issues  does not solve such problems. It 
was merely a tactical ploy to look good and concerned. Sinn Féin is merely 
exploiting suffering, as it has been doing in the six counties, to venally 
promote itself. Again there has been no attempt made by the parliamentary 
“radical” left to expose the cynical nature of this SF tactic. 


The nomination by the AAA-PBP alliance of Boyd Barrett as taoiseach was a way 
of suggesting that its politics is essentially no different than those of the 
main  bourgeois parties sitting in the Dáil. It is a further manifestation of 
its grossly opportunist nature. Even the alliance is farcical in character: It 
is an alliance of two alliances (AAA and PBP alliance) with only one of these 
alliances (PBP) in alliance with another alliance (the Right2Change). If this 
is not convoluted farce nothing is. It is an mind defying arrangement that can 
only but justifiably cause confusion among the working class. 

The abstention by the PBP  in the Dáil division over the nomination of Gerry 
Adams as Taoiseach further exposes the opportunism of PBP. If it is not a fake 
radical left alliance it would have voted against nominating the leader of a 
capitalist party, SF, for Taoiseach.

The Dáil forms an integral part of the bourgeois state. Consequently it cannot 
serve the class interests of the working class. Power cannot be concentrated in 
the hands of the working class through the medium of the Dáil. The fake 
parliamentary radical  left by participating in parliament in the way that it 
has is merely fortifying illusions in this bourgeois institution. The AAA and 
the PBP alliances are merely covers for the SP and the SWP. These parties are 
so opportunist that they cannot relate to the working class under their own 
names but must hide behind these soi distant “alliances.” Essentially the SP 
and the SWP are respectively, at most, Social Democratic parties. They will 
end, at most, playing the same role as the present minuscule Irish Labour Party.

 Instead the working class must struggle towards the establishment of workers’ 
councils as its institutions of power. 




Take Care
Paddy
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Greg McDonald via Marxism
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In other Trump-related news, the Donald explores alternative funding for
the Mexico border wall:


https://www.facebook.com/progsnobofficial/photos/a.177436475789791.1073741828.177434402456665/457502761116493/?type=3&theater
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism
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I've been promoting online the several education for socialist bulletins on
what fascism is and how to fight it (as well as Trotsky's pamphlet of the
same name). Here's one which looks at different approaches - Cannonite and
Shachtmanite - toward a fascist rally in L.A. in 1946).
It seems to me there are parallel methodological differences today, even if
the specific tactical choices vary (as well as the fact that Trump doesn't
lead an organized fascist band).
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/swp-us/education/antifascism/weiss.htm


On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Andrew Pollack 
wrote:

> Thanks to those contributing to this thread who stressed the role of
> leadership with tactical savvy.
> Today's Socialist Worker has an article which unfortunately doesn't
> display such savvy:
> http://socialistworker.org/2016/03/14/how-chicago-dumped-trump
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Clay Claiborne 
> wrote:
>
>> I think provoking Trumpette violence can be tactically stupid. But I also
>> think the UIC violence came mainly from Trump's people. No matter, he used
>> it to his advantage. It will probably help in in Illinois on Tues. I'm sure
>> he see's it that way.
>>
>> Trump is from the Assad/Putin school of politics - namely fascism - which
>> means they are all master con men and dirty tricksters, Trump will use
>> "Left" violence at his rallies the same way Putin & Assad use "terrorism"
>>
>> I suspect the secret service scramble the next day was entirely staged -
>> what do we know about the guy that jumped the bike rack? Have some SS
>> agents made a "deal" with Trump? Are they the "law enforcement" that
>> advised Trump to cancel the rally or was it that Arizona sheriff?
>>
>> Clay Claiborne, Director
>> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
>> Linux Beach Productions
>> Venice, CA 90291
>> (310) 581-1536
>>
>> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
>> 
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism <
>> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
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>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> This is not a leading question, it's an honest attempt at clarity:
>>> Of the people of color or other anti-Trumpers who were pushed around,
>>> beaten, threatened etc. at Trump events: what percent were inside the
>>> events?
>>> I am NOT saying they deserved it, whether inside or out.
>>> I AM saying that if a Trumper came to a progressive event and started
>>> yelling, we would usher them out, perhaps even with force.
>>> And I AM saying that in the battle against right-wingers, defensive
>>> formulations matter.
>>> Physically stopping (with help from the pavement) attacks on our picket
>>> lines, meetings, mosques, etc., is essential. As is proactively building
>>> the movements which Trumpers would love to crush.
>>> But provoking Trumpette violence is just tactical stupidity.
>>> Opinions?
>>> _
>>> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
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>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism
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Thanks to those contributing to this thread who stressed the role of
leadership with tactical savvy.
Today's Socialist Worker has an article which unfortunately doesn't display
such savvy:
http://socialistworker.org/2016/03/14/how-chicago-dumped-trump

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> I think provoking Trumpette violence can be tactically stupid. But I also
> think the UIC violence came mainly from Trump's people. No matter, he used
> it to his advantage. It will probably help in in Illinois on Tues. I'm sure
> he see's it that way.
>
> Trump is from the Assad/Putin school of politics - namely fascism - which
> means they are all master con men and dirty tricksters, Trump will use
> "Left" violence at his rallies the same way Putin & Assad use "terrorism"
>
> I suspect the secret service scramble the next day was entirely staged -
> what do we know about the guy that jumped the bike rack? Have some SS
> agents made a "deal" with Trump? Are they the "law enforcement" that
> advised Trump to cancel the rally or was it that Arizona sheriff?
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> 
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
>>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
>> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
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>> *
>>
>>
>> This is not a leading question, it's an honest attempt at clarity:
>> Of the people of color or other anti-Trumpers who were pushed around,
>> beaten, threatened etc. at Trump events: what percent were inside the
>> events?
>> I am NOT saying they deserved it, whether inside or out.
>> I AM saying that if a Trumper came to a progressive event and started
>> yelling, we would usher them out, perhaps even with force.
>> And I AM saying that in the battle against right-wingers, defensive
>> formulations matter.
>> Physically stopping (with help from the pavement) attacks on our picket
>> lines, meetings, mosques, etc., is essential. As is proactively building
>> the movements which Trumpers would love to crush.
>> But provoking Trumpette violence is just tactical stupidity.
>> Opinions?
>> _
>> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
>> Set your options at:
>> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
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[Marxism] Baked Alaska Anyone?

2016-03-14 Thread Greg McDonald via Marxism
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http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/03/13/3759569/record-february-warmth-alaska-arctic/

It was so hot last month that large parts of the Arctic *averaged* more
than 18°F (10°C) above normal
.
Not only did last month easily set the record for lowest February Arctic
sea ice extent, as the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) reported
,
but Arctic sea ice growth has been almost flat for over a month during a
time when it normally soars to its annual maximum.
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[Marxism] Fwd: Tomgram: Bob Dreyfuss, Will The Donald Rally the Militias and the Right-to-Carry Movement? | TomDispatch

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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Robert Dreyfuss writes: "Among other things, for such a movement and the 
armed militias that would go with it to coalesce, you might need another 
2007/2008-style economic meltdown, a crisis long and profound enough for 
such a movement to seize the moment."


http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176114/

What's missing from this equation and all such other articles warning 
about Trump becoming a fascist dictator is the exact cause of such an 
extreme reactionary move: a revolutionary challenge by the working 
class. The 2007/2008 Great Recession, unlike the Great Depression, did 
not lead to a working class radicalization. The working class has hardly 
been a factor in challenging the deepening attacks on wages, working 
conditions, and other important necessities such as healthcare and 
education. Furthermore, left groups have not been growing. They have 
been shrinking. The Occupy Wall Street movement was significant but it 
was mostly led by young people not at "the point of production: as we 
used to put it in the SWP. Why resort to fascism when bourgeois 
democracy is working so splendidly?

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[Marxism] Fwd: Booked: The Living Dead | Dissent Magazine

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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Shenk: One of the most astute observers of the world that made the 
cemetery system possible was Karl Marx. He was also, as you observe, a 
pointed critic of those who kept their gaze locked on the dead. “The 
revolution of the nineteenth century,” he wrote in 1852, “must let the 
dead bury their dead in order to arrive at its own content.” Marx was 
speaking metaphorically, but it’s still striking that his own grave has 
become a revered site for later Marxists. That paradox reflects one of 
your central preoccupations in the book. Marxists visiting the grave are 
looking for meaning in death, even though they’re part of a tradition 
that’s rejected the religious convictions that once made the search tenable.


The tension between those positions, you argue, is a product of the 
history described in this book. To oversimplify: today death is a 
medical phenomenon, but our expectations are still shaped by an earlier 
moment when it was seen as a theological event. “Ours is a disenchanted 
enchantment,” you write. “We believe despite ourselves.” If 
thoroughgoing secularization is impossible, and so is a revival of the 
medieval worldview, does this mean we have reached a kind of end of 
history for the work of the dead?


Laqueur: When Marx died in 1883, he was originally buried in a modest 
plot in the thoroughly bourgeois Highgate Cemetery. Engels et al were 
burying the dead in the hope of a new future. The “let the dead bury 
their dead” quote comes from the Bible but Marx’s friends did not, as 
Jesus had commanded his apostles, abandon their traditional obligations, 
that is to leave their homes and families and commit themselves to a 
radically new world. The bourgeois revolutionaries of the late 
eighteenth century had failed to fully abandon the past for the future. 
And of course so had the working class by the time Marx died;  the 
revolution that would end history had not happened. We—and Engels—did 
not leave it to the dead to bury the dead.


In 1955 Marx was reburied in a much more conspicuous site in Highgate. 
Since then,  a growing assemblage of the communist dead has gathered 
around his new tomb. I understand why you call it a paradox, but in a 
sense my book suggests quite the opposite: the need to live with the 
dead transcends any particular belief about who the dead are, or what 
death is, or whether there is an afterlife.


You are right in a sense. If you had asked someone in the fourteenth 
century why he wanted to be buried next to a saint he would have told 
you some story about her holiness being present in the bones even if she 
was in heaven and how it was important to his salvation because being 
near the bones connected him with someone who had the ear of God. If you 
pushed him and asked whether God would let him into heaven even if he 
had died at sea or if the relics had been stolen he would have said yes, 
I guess so. If we could ask the great communist historian Eric Hobsbawm 
why he wanted his ashes, identical to everyone else’s ashes, buried—at 
great expense—in a large tomb near Marx his answer would have been that 
he wanted to be with his comrades. But, we could reply, your comrades 
are gone; there is only mere matter here; wouldn’t a plaque do? No, he 
would say, I need to be there. And so on. My point is that I suspect 
we—those who survive and those who while alive contemplate our being 
eventually among the dead—will always need them and will be forever 
inventive in how we ask them to work for us.


full: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/booked-living-dead-thomas-laqueur
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[Marxism] Fwd: What It Feels Like to Be an Octopus - Facts So Romantic - Nautilus

2016-03-14 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

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http://nautil.us/blog/what-it-feels-like-to-be-an-octopus
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Re: [Marxism] victims of Trumpette violence?

2016-03-14 Thread Greg McDonald via Marxism
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I honestly do not think the Trump campaign engineered the confrontation in
Chicago. Now, if Juan Cole's analysis is correct--that Trump supporters are
all Klan and biker gang wannabe's, then perhaps. But if we look at Thomas
Frank's analysis, the primary concern of the white working class voters who
support Trump is the economy. I'm pretty sure that above all the dog
whistle politics, the Trump campaign understands this.

"People are much more frightened than they are bigoted"...

“But there is another way to interpret the Trump phenomenon. A map of his
support may coordinate with racist Google searches, but it coordinates even
better with deindustrialization and despair, with the zones of economic
misery that 30 years of Washington’s free-market consensus have brought the
rest of America.”

It is worth noting that Trump is making a point of assailing that Indiana
air conditioning company from the video
 in his speeches. What this
suggests is that he’s telling a tale as much about economic outrage as it
is tale of racism on the march. Many of Trump’s followers are bigots, no
doubt, but many more are probably excited by the prospect of a president
who seems to mean it when he denounces our trade agreements and promises to
bring the hammer down on the CEO that fired you and wrecked your town,
unlike Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

Here is the most salient supporting fact: when people talk to white,
working-class Trump supporters, instead of simply imagining what they might
say, they find that what most concerns these people is the economy and
their place in it. I am referring to a study just published by Working
America, a political-action auxiliary of the AFL-CIO, which interviewed
some 1,600 white working-class voters in the suburbs of Cleveland and
Pittsburgh in December and January.

Support for Donald Trump, the group found, ran strong among these people,
even among self-identified Democrats, but not because they are all pining
for a racist in the White House. Their favorite aspect of Trump was his
“attitude”, the blunt and forthright way he talks. As far as issues are
concerned, “immigration” placed third among the matters such voters care
about, far behind their number one concern: “good jobs / the economy”.

“People are much more frightened than they are bigoted,” is how the
findings were described to me by Karen Nussbaum, the executive director of
Working America. The survey “confirmed what we heard all the time: people
are fed up, people are hurting, they are very distressed about the fact
that their kids don’t have a future” and that “there still hasn’t been a
recovery from the recession, that every family still suffers from it in one
way or another.”

Tom Lewandowski, the president of the Northeast Indiana Central Labor
Council in Fort Wayne, puts it even more bluntly when I asked him about
working-class Trump fans. “These people aren’t racist, not any more than
anybody else is,” he says of Trump supporters he knows. “When Trump talks
about trade, we think about the Clinton administration, first with Nafta
and then with [Permanent Normal Trade Relations] China, and here in
Northeast Indiana, we hemorrhaged jobs.”

“They look at that, and here’s Trump talking about trade, in a ham-handed
way, but at least he’s representing emotionally. We’ve had all the
political establishment standing behind every trade deal, and we endorsed
some of these people, and then we’ve had to fight them to get them to
represent us.”


http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/thomas_frank_all_those_trump_supporters_theyre_not_just_racist_20160312
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[Marxism] Exposing the Libyan Agenda: a Closer Look at Hillary’s Emails

2016-03-14 Thread Andrew Stewart via Marxism
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Very good analysis 
It seems like Sidney Blumenthal is a disgusting human being still 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/14/exposing-the-libyan-agenda-a-closer-look-at-hillarys-emails/


Best regards,
Andrew Stewart 
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