Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Two-wire plug connector to cylinder about 1.5 inches diameter on back of the injection pump. On my OM603, there's only two electrical connections (? Or three, 3rd is transmission micro switch?), one on top next to the vacuum shut-off valve for the rack position sensor is the other one. Your 602 will also have it, if the service manual is to be trusted; item Y22 in picture top of procedure 07.1-1855 (attached for Larry). If you disconnect, the idle should drop to about 500 RPM or so; I used the manual idle screw (to left of number 167 on drawing, I mean number vice the item 167 which is a shim) to bring it back up to about 650. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:26 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Hi Max - You wrote trying to cure a rough idle, finally it dawned on me to unplug the electronic idle control which did the trick What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? Although I must admit, the idle is not noticeable since I replaced the motor mounts. Then again, if I can make it even smoother I will -- Thx LarryT 91 300D 2.5T (OM602-962) OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:44 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Regarding the old DV springs being shorter than the new, I found the same when I did the job on my OM603 in my '87 wagon, but did not notice any change in performance with the new springs. I was trying to cure a rough idle, finally it dawned on me to unplug the electronic idle control which did the trick. Now with rebuilt injectors balanced to within 5 bar range and the rebuilt DV internals, the idle is pretty smooth when warm. I plan to replace the motor mounts in the near future. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:16 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job re the question about the oil I have used - Have been using Synthetic since we bought this car ~3 years and 75K miles ago - I would describe what I found in the intake as liquid black slime - what a mess to remove. It's going back together now - I cleaned it with lots of rags, paper towels and simple green mixed with Carb/brake cleaner. It came out pretty easily but was pretty messy. I'm taking a break now - leaning over the engine is hard on the backs of the legs! I dropped a intake manifold bolt so if I can't see it with a light and grab it with a magnet I'll have to drop the lower panel some. Thx for the suggestions - next time the intake plenum will go to a machine shop - I've seen what they can do with a engine bloc - they must have some great chemicals! Hopefully I can schedule the work more ahead of time next time. No problems with the delivery valves - all the o-rings were very dried and cracked (they crumbled when I tried to remove them) - I also replaced the springs and copper washers. The old springs were ~1/8 shorter than the new ones - don't know what effect that compression had (anyone know??) -- didn't have any problem assembling all the DV's - I coated the o-rings and threads with a liberal amount of Kroil and the o-rings slipped on easily. I then centered the DV's in the IP and put the copper washer in place, set the spring on the DV and then put the casing on and screwed it down. Then followed the torque procedure. No problems I know of - it made a bit of noise as the air slowly exited the system - it is hopefully free of air now. I was surprised at how much noise it made as the air was forced out of the system. I'm really glad to have this job behind me though. I hope I get another 160,000 miles out of this set of washers, o-rings and springs - My only surprise when when it came time to install the intake manifold gasket -- it was for a 6 cylinder and I have a 5 cyl.A call to the local MB dealer solved the problem - the 6 cyl gasket is supposed to be trimmed to fit 5 cylinders - once he said it I recalled that I'd done the same thing last time I replaced the gasket. Let me now if you have any questions - LarryT 91 300D Larry '91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:48 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I would also recommend changing
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Ahh - I mis-spoke. It's pressure operated. It opens the waste gate when the manifold pressure hits a given value. This is the link to order the control that most closely fits the 2.5T engine - http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODStore_Code=TPProduct_Code=433489-12Category_Code or *http://tinyurl.com/ylq562o* http://tinyurl.com/ylq562o if the wrapping link doesn't work. I'll try to find the thread on the Peachparts forum with Dave N.'s research and results. So how does one get a vacuum operated waste gate to work properly (i.e., open at the right time, close at the right time)? Craig -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Max wrote are we talking about Larry's OM606? I missed that, and agree that the rules are different for an OM606 that is naturally aspirated My '91 is a Turbo - a OM602-962 engine. BTW, I've used M1 for the last 80K miles and the black goo is in the intakes about 1/8 deep in places. I scraped much of it out with a putty knife but next time will take both parts (the X-over and Intake) to a local machine shop for a good cleaning. Now, what rule applies to my turbo? Better to clean or not to clean? (to be, or not to be...) LOL LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:26 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Ah, are we talking about Larry's OM606? I missed that, and agree that the rules are different for an OM606 that is naturally aspirated (NA). I had an OM617 NA, intake was coated with incredible layer of tar because the EGR had failed in open position. Fixed that, switched to Mobil 1, and all that tar turned gooey and began flowing. Every so often I'd get a huge cloud of smoke out the back when the engine ingested some. However, Marshall's advice to me was that cleaning it would have no affect except reduce the occasional cloud of smoke. -Max -Original Message- [SNIP] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Hi Max - You wrote trying to cure a rough idle, finally it dawned on me to unplug the electronic idle control which did the trick What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? Although I must admit, the idle is not noticeable since I replaced the motor mounts. Then again, if I can make it even smoother I will -- Thx LarryT 91 300D 2.5T (OM602-962) OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:44 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Regarding the old DV springs being shorter than the new, I found the same when I did the job on my OM603 in my '87 wagon, but did not notice any change in performance with the new springs. I was trying to cure a rough idle, finally it dawned on me to unplug the electronic idle control which did the trick. Now with rebuilt injectors balanced to within 5 bar range and the rebuilt DV internals, the idle is pretty smooth when warm. I plan to replace the motor mounts in the near future. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:16 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job re the question about the oil I have used - Have been using Synthetic since we bought this car ~3 years and 75K miles ago - I would describe what I found in the intake as liquid black slime - what a mess to remove. It's going back together now - I cleaned it with lots of rags, paper towels and simple green mixed with Carb/brake cleaner. It came out pretty easily but was pretty messy. I'm taking a break now - leaning over the engine is hard on the backs of the legs! I dropped a intake manifold bolt so if I can't see it with a light and grab it with a magnet I'll have to drop the lower panel some. Thx for the suggestions - next time the intake plenum will go to a machine shop - I've seen what they can do with a engine bloc - they must have some great chemicals! Hopefully I can schedule the work more ahead of time next time. No problems with the delivery valves - all the o-rings were very dried and cracked (they crumbled when I tried to remove them) - I also replaced the springs and copper washers. The old springs were ~1/8 shorter than the new ones - don't know what effect that compression had (anyone know??) -- didn't have any problem assembling all the DV's - I coated the o-rings and threads with a liberal amount of Kroil and the o-rings slipped on easily. I then centered the DV's in the IP and put the copper washer in place, set the spring on the DV and then put the casing on and screwed it down. Then followed the torque procedure. No problems I know of - it made a bit of noise as the air slowly exited the system - it is hopefully free of air now. I was surprised at how much noise it made as the air was forced out of the system. I'm really glad to have this job behind me though. I hope I get another 160,000 miles out of this set of washers, o-rings and springs - My only surprise when when it came time to install the intake manifold gasket -- it was for a 6 cylinder and I have a 5 cyl.A call to the local MB dealer solved the problem - the 6 cyl gasket is supposed to be trimmed to fit 5 cylinders - once he said it I recalled that I'd done the same thing last time I replaced the gasket. Let me now if you have any questions - LarryT 91 300D Larry '91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:48 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I would also recommend changing to synthetic oil if you are not using it now -- I had very little crud at 270,000 miles with synthetic, and my brother had none, only liquid black slime. A cracked head, however, will cause all sorts of crap to collect at the EGR port, though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:25 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Max - You wrote trying to cure a rough idle, finally it dawned on me to unplug the electronic idle control which did the trick What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? On a 603 it's a small black box under the crossover pipe, behind the ALDA (i.e. towards the firewall), with a plug on the top. Not sure what would happen if you unplugged it on your 2.5 Turbo, considering that particular engine's knowledge of such things as when EGR is active---anyone else who is familiar with the 2.5T know whether it would make any difference to the brain? Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:03:05 -0800 Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:25 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? On a 603 it's a small black box under the crossover pipe, behind the ALDA (i.e. towards the firewall), with a plug on the top. Not sure what would happen if you unplugged it on your 2.5 Turbo, considering that particular engine's knowledge of such things as when EGR is active---anyone else who is familiar with the 2.5T know whether it would make any difference to the brain? I recall Marshall saying that you couldn't block off the EGR on a 2.5T because you couldn't sneak that past the computer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
OK, The noise is probably more loud than I initially thought. I cracked the fuel line connections where they attach to the injectors and made sure all air was out. It was dark but I think I got the air out. I was surprised at how little fuel came out with each squirt. Next, Using a long screwdriver I put one end again the fuel pipe at each DV the other end against my ear listening for sounds. All sounded pretty smooth with a soft bumping/whooshing sound. So then I did the same thing with the end of the screwdriver against the fuel line where it connected to each injector. #'s 3, 4 5 were louder than #'s 1 2. I'm thinking I should have the injectors serviced or buy new ones. What's the preferred method?Are the injectors Rusty sells matched ? If so, does that make the choice to go with Rusty? Sitting in the car with doors windows closed the engine is pretty quiet - but when idling there is a distinct soft klunking. I'd probably live with it but if my wife is going to come home and tell me how bad the noise is (to her) I'll need to do something. (besides close the windows.) ;-) Thx Guys - LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:42 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:03:05 -0800 Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:25 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? On a 603 it's a small black box under the crossover pipe, behind the ALDA (i.e. towards the firewall), with a plug on the top. Not sure what would happen if you unplugged it on your 2.5 Turbo, considering that particular engine's knowledge of such things as when EGR is active---anyone else who is familiar with the 2.5T know whether it would make any difference to the brain? I recall Marshall saying that you couldn't block off the EGR on a 2.5T because you couldn't sneak that past the computer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
One more question - Rusty has the Fuel Inj. Nozzles for ~$30 ea. and the Injectors for ~$72 ea. If the Nozzle is the only part to ever need service the choice is easy - buy a nozzle but it appears other parts inside the injector body may need to be replaced at some point. But I cannot decide which is the best buy?? Has anyone been through this recently? I'm in no hurry to spend $350+ for new Injectors - even $150+ for nozzles is no picnic. BTW, anybody have an idea of how much a shop might charge to service (whatever that means) the injectors? (I'm in Va). Thx Guys - Larry 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:42 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:03:05 -0800 Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:25 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? On a 603 it's a small black box under the crossover pipe, behind the ALDA (i.e. towards the firewall), with a plug on the top. Not sure what would happen if you unplugged it on your 2.5 Turbo, considering that particular engine's knowledge of such things as when EGR is active---anyone else who is familiar with the 2.5T know whether it would make any difference to the brain? I recall Marshall saying that you couldn't block off the EGR on a 2.5T because you couldn't sneak that past the computer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
If you have an authorized Bosch injector shop in the area, take the set out and asked them to bench them. This is essentially just putting them in the test stand and checking hem for proper pressure and spray pattern. They may just tell you that they will rebuild them for $x dollars each, which is fine. Just ask that they calibrate them to within 1-2 bar for the set. It's not that big of a deal for a good injection shop to do, and it will make a difference in how well the engine runs. Be sure to get a new set of sealing rings for reinstalling them. Dan --- On Sat, 2/20/10, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 8:42 PM OK, The noise is probably more loud than I initially thought. I cracked the fuel line connections where they attach to the injectors and made sure all air was out. It was dark but I think I got the air out. I was surprised at how little fuel came out with each squirt. Next, Using a long screwdriver I put one end again the fuel pipe at each DV the other end against my ear listening for sounds. All sounded pretty smooth with a soft bumping/whooshing sound. So then I did the same thing with the end of the screwdriver against the fuel line where it connected to each injector. #'s 3, 4 5 were louder than #'s 1 2. I'm thinking I should have the injectors serviced or buy new ones. What's the preferred method? Are the injectors Rusty sells matched ? If so, does that make the choice to go with Rusty? Sitting in the car with doors windows closed the engine is pretty quiet - but when idling there is a distinct soft klunking. I'd probably live with it but if my wife is going to come home and tell me how bad the noise is (to her) I'll need to do something. (besides close the windows.) ;-) Thx Guys - LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:42 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:03:05 -0800 Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:25 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? On a 603 it's a small black box under the crossover pipe, behind the ALDA (i.e. towards the firewall), with a plug on the top. Not sure what would happen if you unplugged it on your 2.5 Turbo, considering that particular engine's knowledge of such things as when EGR is active---anyone else who is familiar with the 2.5T know whether it would make any difference to the brain? I recall Marshall saying that you couldn't block off the EGR on a 2.5T because you couldn't sneak that past the computer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I think the shops around here charge around $30/injector to clean and calibrate. If you need a new nozzle it's not a lot more. Unless you have a pop tester handy you have no business changing out the nozzles yourself, as you have no idea what the pattern is like when they have been replaced, or if they are properly sealing. Dan --- On Sat, 2/20/10, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:06 PM One more question - Rusty has the Fuel Inj. Nozzles for ~$30 ea. and the Injectors for ~$72 ea. If the Nozzle is the only part to ever need service the choice is easy - buy a nozzle but it appears other parts inside the injector body may need to be replaced at some point. But I cannot decide which is the best buy?? Has anyone been through this recently? I'm in no hurry to spend $350+ for new Injectors - even $150+ for nozzles is no picnic. BTW, anybody have an idea of how much a shop might charge to service (whatever that means) the injectors? (I'm in Va). Thx Guys - Larry 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:42 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:03:05 -0800 Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:25 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? On a 603 it's a small black box under the crossover pipe, behind the ALDA (i.e. towards the firewall), with a plug on the top. Not sure what would happen if you unplugged it on your 2.5 Turbo, considering that particular engine's knowledge of such things as when EGR is active---anyone else who is familiar with the 2.5T know whether it would make any difference to the brain? I recall Marshall saying that you couldn't block off the EGR on a 2.5T because you couldn't sneak that past the computer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I forget who it was (Neiman?) on the Peachparts site has found a vacuum operated waste gate that can replace the electric one in the 2.5T, which allows you to disable the EGR, since the circuit opens the electric wastegate when it senses the EGR is disabled. Seems like the best way around the computer! On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.netwrote: On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:03:05 -0800 Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:25 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: What does the idle control look like? Does my OM 602 have one? On a 603 it's a small black box under the crossover pipe, behind the ALDA (i.e. towards the firewall), with a plug on the top. Not sure what would happen if you unplugged it on your 2.5 Turbo, considering that particular engine's knowledge of such things as when EGR is active---anyone else who is familiar with the 2.5T know whether it would make any difference to the brain? I recall Marshall saying that you couldn't block off the EGR on a 2.5T because you couldn't sneak that past the computer. Craig -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:29:43 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: I forget who it was (Neiman?) on the Peachparts site has found a vacuum operated waste gate that can replace the electric one in the 2.5T, which allows you to disable the EGR, since the circuit opens the electric wastegate when it senses the EGR is disabled. Seems like the best way around the computer! So how does one get a vacuum operated waste gate to work properly (i.e., open at the right time, close at the right time)? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
re the question about the oil I have used - Have been using Synthetic since we bought this car ~3 years and 75K miles ago - I would describe what I found in the intake as liquid black slime - what a mess to remove. It's going back together now - I cleaned it with lots of rags, paper towels and simple green mixed with Carb/brake cleaner. It came out pretty easily but was pretty messy. I'm taking a break now - leaning over the engine is hard on the backs of the legs! I dropped a intake manifold bolt so if I can't see it with a light and grab it with a magnet I'll have to drop the lower panel some. Thx for the suggestions - next time the intake plenum will go to a machine shop - I've seen what they can do with a engine bloc - they must have some great chemicals! Hopefully I can schedule the work more ahead of time next time. No problems with the delivery valves - all the o-rings were very dried and cracked (they crumbled when I tried to remove them) - I also replaced the springs and copper washers. The old springs were ~1/8 shorter than the new ones - don't know what effect that compression had (anyone know??) -- didn't have any problem assembling all the DV's - I coated the o-rings and threads with a liberal amount of Kroil and the o-rings slipped on easily. I then centered the DV's in the IP and put the copper washer in place, set the spring on the DV and then put the casing on and screwed it down. Then followed the torque procedure. No problems I know of - it made a bit of noise as the air slowly exited the system - it is hopefully free of air now. I was surprised at how much noise it made as the air was forced out of the system. I'm really glad to have this job behind me though. I hope I get another 160,000 miles out of this set of washers, o-rings and springs - My only surprise when when it came time to install the intake manifold gasket -- it was for a 6 cylinder and I have a 5 cyl.A call to the local MB dealer solved the problem - the 6 cyl gasket is supposed to be trimmed to fit 5 cylinders - once he said it I recalled that I'd done the same thing last time I replaced the gasket. Let me now if you have any questions - LarryT 91 300D Larry '91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:48 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I would also recommend changing to synthetic oil if you are not using it now -- I had very little crud at 270,000 miles with synthetic, and my brother had none, only liquid black slime. A cracked head, however, will cause all sorts of crap to collect at the EGR port, though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Ah, are we talking about Larry's OM606? I missed that, and agree that the rules are different for an OM606 that is naturally aspirated (NA). I had an OM617 NA, intake was coated with incredible layer of tar because the EGR had failed in open position. Fixed that, switched to Mobil 1, and all that tar turned gooey and began flowing. Every so often I'd get a huge cloud of smoke out the back when the engine ingested some. However, Marshall's advice to me was that cleaning it would have no affect except reduce the occasional cloud of smoke. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of John Reames Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I thought the rule of thumb was that NA's like clean intake. plumbing, while those with blowers do not care so much. That being said, the NA OM606 plumbing has some resonance tuning flaps which appreciate being clean -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Feb 17, 2010, at 15:57, Redghost redgh...@comcast.net wrote: On Gump, which Marshall was quick to point out belongs to another set of rules, the cleaning of the intake did make her drive a bit better. I used brake cleaner while the intake was still on. I plan to remove and replace the current intake with one I have thoroughly cleaned when the head work is done clay On Feb 17, 2010, at 11:08 AM, LarryT wrote: You wrote cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. To preserve my sanity I'm going to think I've restored 15hp by cleaning this mess! Later - now, to rest - then look for the bolt. LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I second that recommendation. I've tried cleaning it myself, it quickly turned into a really messy nasty job. If you want it clean, pay a professional. Marshall always used to say that cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Take the intake to your local engine machine shop and let them clean it. It seems that every drop of splatter will stain forever, its nasty stuff. BTDT Thanks Harry *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? . Thx! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Regarding the old DV springs being shorter than the new, I found the same when I did the job on my OM603 in my '87 wagon, but did not notice any change in performance with the new springs. I was trying to cure a rough idle, finally it dawned on me to unplug the electronic idle control which did the trick. Now with rebuilt injectors balanced to within 5 bar range and the rebuilt DV internals, the idle is pretty smooth when warm. I plan to replace the motor mounts in the near future. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:16 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job re the question about the oil I have used - Have been using Synthetic since we bought this car ~3 years and 75K miles ago - I would describe what I found in the intake as liquid black slime - what a mess to remove. It's going back together now - I cleaned it with lots of rags, paper towels and simple green mixed with Carb/brake cleaner. It came out pretty easily but was pretty messy. I'm taking a break now - leaning over the engine is hard on the backs of the legs! I dropped a intake manifold bolt so if I can't see it with a light and grab it with a magnet I'll have to drop the lower panel some. Thx for the suggestions - next time the intake plenum will go to a machine shop - I've seen what they can do with a engine bloc - they must have some great chemicals! Hopefully I can schedule the work more ahead of time next time. No problems with the delivery valves - all the o-rings were very dried and cracked (they crumbled when I tried to remove them) - I also replaced the springs and copper washers. The old springs were ~1/8 shorter than the new ones - don't know what effect that compression had (anyone know??) -- didn't have any problem assembling all the DV's - I coated the o-rings and threads with a liberal amount of Kroil and the o-rings slipped on easily. I then centered the DV's in the IP and put the copper washer in place, set the spring on the DV and then put the casing on and screwed it down. Then followed the torque procedure. No problems I know of - it made a bit of noise as the air slowly exited the system - it is hopefully free of air now. I was surprised at how much noise it made as the air was forced out of the system. I'm really glad to have this job behind me though. I hope I get another 160,000 miles out of this set of washers, o-rings and springs - My only surprise when when it came time to install the intake manifold gasket -- it was for a 6 cylinder and I have a 5 cyl.A call to the local MB dealer solved the problem - the 6 cyl gasket is supposed to be trimmed to fit 5 cylinders - once he said it I recalled that I'd done the same thing last time I replaced the gasket. Let me now if you have any questions - LarryT 91 300D Larry '91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:48 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I would also recommend changing to synthetic oil if you are not using it now -- I had very little crud at 270,000 miles with synthetic, and my brother had none, only liquid black slime. A cracked head, however, will cause all sorts of crap to collect at the EGR port, though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
OK - Thanks to Don Peter - it just seemed a couple of the bolts were little more than finger tight - but I guess 18.4 #'s Ft. is not much more than finger tight. OK - no Locktite - but I will put a dab on anti-seize on the bolts - *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? Looks like the inside of a flooded coal mine (at night) in there with a buildup of black stuff perhaps 1/8 thick. I'm tempted to drive the parts down to the local pressure car wash spray them off! But I hate to mess the place up for those who come behind me... Thx! Larry OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job From 14-1310 on the CD - 25nm, or 18.4 lb-ft. No lock-tite needed. All it needs is enough torque to seal to the head - On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 9:41 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Gang -- I have started to prep things so I can rebuild my delivery valves - I have the springs, washers and o-rings and started disassembling the intake stuff. One problem - when I started removing the bolts that hold the intake manifold to the head I found them to not be very tight - I was told by others on the list that the torque should be 20Nm/14-15ft-lbs which seems pretty low to me. I looked at my Data Book but could not find the torque for the intake bolts. I looked for 1/2 hour but could not find it. Can anyone confirm the torque value for the manifold bolts for my 602-962 engine? Also, should I use LockTite on the bolt threads? I'll look some more but would appreciate any help. Thx LarryT 91 300D 2.5T W124 -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I hear that B100 is really good for that. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Feb 17, 2010, at 6:12, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: OK - Thanks to Don Peter - it just seemed a couple of the bolts were little more than finger tight - but I guess 18.4 #'s Ft. is not much more than finger tight. OK - no Locktite - but I will put a dab on anti-seize on the bolts - *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? Looks like the inside of a flooded coal mine (at night) in there with a buildup of black stuff perhaps 1/8 thick. I'm tempted to drive the parts down to the local pressure car wash spray them off! But I hate to mess the place up for those who come behind me... Thx! Larry OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job From 14-1310 on the CD - 25nm, or 18.4 lb-ft. No lock-tite needed. All it needs is enough torque to seal to the head - On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 9:41 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Gang -- I have started to prep things so I can rebuild my delivery valves - I have the springs, washers and o-rings and started disassembling the intake stuff. One problem - when I started removing the bolts that hold the intake manifold to the head I found them to not be very tight - I was told by others on the list that the torque should be 20Nm/14-15ft-lbs which seems pretty low to me. I looked at my Data Book but could not find the torque for the intake bolts. I looked for 1/2 hour but could not find it. Can anyone confirm the torque value for the manifold bolts for my 602-962 engine? Also, should I use LockTite on the bolt threads? I'll look some more but would appreciate any help. Thx LarryT 91 300D 2.5T W124 -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
John Reames wrote: I hear that B100 is really good for that. What do you do, soak it in the stuff? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Take the intake to your local engine machine shop and let them clean it. It seems that every drop of splatter will stain forever, its nasty stuff. BTDT Thanks Harry *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? . Thx! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I would also recommend changing to synthetic oil if you are not using it now -- I had very little crud at 270,000 miles with synthetic, and my brother had none, only liquid black slime. A cracked head, however, will cause all sorts of crap to collect at the EGR port, though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I second that recommendation. I've tried cleaning it myself, it quickly turned into a really messy nasty job. If you want it clean, pay a professional. Marshall always used to say that cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Take the intake to your local engine machine shop and let them clean it. It seems that every drop of splatter will stain forever, its nasty stuff. BTDT Thanks Harry *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? . Thx! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
You wrote cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. To preserve my sanity I'm going to think I've restored 15hp by cleaning this mess! Later - now, to rest - then look for the bolt. LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I second that recommendation. I've tried cleaning it myself, it quickly turned into a really messy nasty job. If you want it clean, pay a professional. Marshall always used to say that cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Take the intake to your local engine machine shop and let them clean it. It seems that every drop of splatter will stain forever, its nasty stuff. BTDT Thanks Harry *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? . Thx! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Gump, which Marshall was quick to point out belongs to another set of rules, the cleaning of the intake did make her drive a bit better. I used brake cleaner while the intake was still on. I plan to remove and replace the current intake with one I have thoroughly cleaned when the head work is done clay On Feb 17, 2010, at 11:08 AM, LarryT wrote: You wrote cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. To preserve my sanity I'm going to think I've restored 15hp by cleaning this mess! Later - now, to rest - then look for the bolt. LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I second that recommendation. I've tried cleaning it myself, it quickly turned into a really messy nasty job. If you want it clean, pay a professional. Marshall always used to say that cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Take the intake to your local engine machine shop and let them clean it. It seems that every drop of splatter will stain forever, its nasty stuff. BTDT Thanks Harry *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? . Thx! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I thought the rule of thumb was that NA's like clean intake. plumbing, while those with blowers do not care so much. That being said, the NA OM606 plumbing has some resonance tuning flaps which appreciate being clean -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Feb 17, 2010, at 15:57, Redghost redgh...@comcast.net wrote: On Gump, which Marshall was quick to point out belongs to another set of rules, the cleaning of the intake did make her drive a bit better. I used brake cleaner while the intake was still on. I plan to remove and replace the current intake with one I have thoroughly cleaned when the head work is done clay On Feb 17, 2010, at 11:08 AM, LarryT wrote: You wrote cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. To preserve my sanity I'm going to think I've restored 15hp by cleaning this mess! Later - now, to rest - then look for the bolt. LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I second that recommendation. I've tried cleaning it myself, it quickly turned into a really messy nasty job. If you want it clean, pay a professional. Marshall always used to say that cleaning them would make NO difference in performance. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Take the intake to your local engine machine shop and let them clean it. It seems that every drop of splatter will stain forever, its nasty stuff. BTDT Thanks Harry *Now for my next question:* Has anyone found a good way to clean the intake plenum? . Thx! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Gump, which Marshall was quick to point out belongs to another set of rules, the cleaning of the intake did make her drive a bit better. Naturally aspirated engines don't like excess input restrictions. Turbo-fed ones generally have excess air available, and you can restrict the input down until the point the wastegate no longer opens, then you'd also start to see some ill effects. Might be some off-idle effects, before the turbo spooled up. They'd probably be relatively minor. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Hi Gang -- I have started to prep things so I can rebuild my delivery valves - I have the springs, washers and o-rings and started disassembling the intake stuff. One problem - when I started removing the bolts that hold the intake manifold to the head I found them to not be very tight - I was told by others on the list that the torque should be 20Nm/14-15ft-lbs which seems pretty low to me. I looked at my Data Book but could not find the torque for the intake bolts. I looked for 1/2 hour but could not find it. Can anyone confirm the torque value for the manifold bolts for my 602-962 engine? Also, should I use LockTite on the bolt threads? I'll look some more but would appreciate any help. Thx LarryT 91 300D 2.5T W124 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Lining the prong with clean fine oil ( NOT 3 in 1 -- sewing machine oil is ok ) helps avoid cut rings -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jan 9, 2010, at 8:20, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
They are tight because the steel bolts seize in the aluminum intake. Don't use locktite, use anti-seize. I do , on every steel bolt in aluminum, and even on steel to steel if there is a possibility of corrosion. 15 ft/lbs is about right, that bolt is a 6mm in aluminum, much tighter and you pull the threads out of the aluminum! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
From 14-1310 on the CD - 25nm, or 18.4 lb-ft. No lock-tite needed. All it needs is enough torque to seal to the head - On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 9:41 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Gang -- I have started to prep things so I can rebuild my delivery valves - I have the springs, washers and o-rings and started disassembling the intake stuff. One problem - when I started removing the bolts that hold the intake manifold to the head I found them to not be very tight - I was told by others on the list that the torque should be 20Nm/14-15ft-lbs which seems pretty low to me. I looked at my Data Book but could not find the torque for the intake bolts. I looked for 1/2 hour but could not find it. Can anyone confirm the torque value for the manifold bolts for my 602-962 engine? Also, should I use LockTite on the bolt threads? I'll look some more but would appreciate any help. Thx LarryT 91 300D 2.5T W124 -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Oh yea, i remember you sending me that stuff. I am sure I have it still but if you want you can send it again just in case I dont. Craig McCluskey wrote: On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:32:02 -0600 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: IF you sent me info and pictures I may or may not have it around somewhere. I need to start digging thru my stuff and getting it up there. I sent you the following ZIP files of pictures: 940K Dec 19 2005 Alternator.zip 1.6M Dec 19 2005 Axle.shaft.change.zip 4.8M Dec 19 2005 Dashboard.zip 1.2M Dec 19 2005 Fuel.tank+sender.zip 5.1M Dec 19 2005 Hirschmann.Antenna.zip 1.5M Dec 19 2005 Hood.Hinges.zip 6.3M Dec 20 2005 Injection.Pump+Injectors.1.zip 4.1M Dec 20 2005 Injection.Pump+Injectors.2.zip 261K Dec 3 2005 Vacuum.system.zip 1.1M Dec 19 2005 W123.Seat.zip If you want, I can send them again. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:40:02 -0600 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: Oh yea, i remember you sending me that stuff. I am sure I have it still but if you want you can send it again just in case I dont. How about you give a shout if you find you don't have them? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
that will work. Craig McCluskey wrote: On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:40:02 -0600 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: Oh yea, i remember you sending me that stuff. I am sure I have it still but if you want you can send it again just in case I dont. How about you give a shout if you find you don't have them? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Well, I begged and the shop decided they would do the DV on Gump. He was not pleased when I showed up, but it took all of 30 minutes to do the job, he was happy as a clam when I came to pick her up. clay On Jan 9, 2010, at 4:43 AM, LarryT wrote: Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:15 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job According to my recollection of Marshall Booth's descriptions, it is possible to follow correct torque procedure (30Nm - release - 30Nm - release - 35Nm - lockdown) and still warp the IP body, which requires a re-do. My idea of doing one at a time (when doing them all) would help you determine which one had warped the IP body. I admit I've only rebuilt all of them at once on two different motors, and on neither motor did I start the engine between each DV rebuilt. Both were OM60x engines and on neither did I have any problems, but a thought experiment lead me to believe that an engine start to listen to the IP between each DV might be wise. Could be either too difficult or worthless if you have the intake manifold off when you re-start and can't hear anything different because of the extra noise from the intake openings in the head. Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? -Max [SNIP] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Automatical defornication! I like it! Well, I begged and the shop decided they would do the DV on Gump. He was not pleased when I showed up, but it took all of 30 minutes to do the job, he was happy as a clam when I came to pick her up. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:15 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job According to my recollection of Marshall Booth's descriptions, it is possible to follow correct torque procedure (30Nm - release - 30Nm - release - 35Nm - lockdown) and still warp the IP body, which requires a re-do. My idea of doing one at a time (when doing them all) would help you determine which one had warped the IP body. I admit I've only rebuilt all of them at once on two different motors, and on neither motor did I start the engine between each DV rebuilt. Both were OM60x engines and on neither did I have any problems, but a thought experiment lead me to believe that an engine start to listen to the IP between each DV might be wise. Could be either too difficult or worthless if you have the intake manifold off when you re-start and can't hear anything different because of the extra noise from the intake openings in the head. Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? -Max [SNIP] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Don wrote follow the instructions to the letter, and was very careful *Now* we're talking!! That's what I wanted to hear! ;-) Take care - LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 6:23 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I've done the job on 2 603's and 2 602s - doing all the valves at once, and never had a problem. I did follow the instructions to the letter, and was very careful. Some were leaking before, noe after. Never did notice any change in noise. On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 3:33 PM, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Doing them one by one and testing between on an OM606 is a major PITA; you have to pull all of the injector pipes and the manifold (for turbos, you have to remove the bolt securing the charge air pipe from the bottom) I believe the issue with warping the IP is due to the valve elements propensity for being off-center in the bores. If you carefully center the elements you may not have trouble. Disclaimer: I've only done the job once on each of the 2 OM606's that we have -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Thx for the instructions! Yes, I'd like the full content. What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Lining the prong with clean fine oil ( NOT 3 in 1 -- sewing machine oil is ok ) helps avoid cut rings -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jan 9, 2010, at 8:20, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I use brake parts cleaner and air to blow it dry. To find the leakers, sprinkle some baby powder around the DVs and watch. I've done two 603s without problems and on the first one, I used the hold down straps as a wrench to do the torque. I did however follow the procedures with care. Harry - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Thx for the instructions! Yes, I'd like the full content. What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
the intake manifold, 603. I did remove the air pipe form the turbo. Take loose Inj line clips at the bolts. Push the back 3 lines aside, but don't try to remove the back three lines with the unbolted manifold holders still clipped to the lines. I know Marshall always cautioned about torqueing the delivery valves carefully. My experience has been that everything is ok as long as you follow the procedure and don't try to put on 36 Nm of torque in place of 35. BTW, the old German that trained me to work on Deutz Engines said that 25 ft-lb is as tight as you can go with your thumb over the nut . (in other words, with only 4 fingers on the wrench and your thumb on the opposite side of the nut.) It is a great torque-limiting technique. Notice that 25 ft-lb is just under 35 NM. I am so confident in this that I can do the delivery valve job without a torque wrench. Dieselhead Thx for the instructions! Yes, I'd like the full content. What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Vaseline or silicone grease works better. Vaseline is actually the specified material -- it IS hydrocarbon wax, after all. Don't use anything but pure stuff, no scents or etc. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Thx for that Harry - You wrote I used the hold down straps as a wrench to do the torque. You didn't use a torque wrench? Don't understand --- LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:44 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I use brake parts cleaner and air to blow it dry. To find the leakers, sprinkle some baby powder around the DVs and watch. I've done two 603s without problems and on the first one, I used the hold down straps as a wrench to do the torque. I did however follow the procedures with care. Harry - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Thx for the instructions! Yes, I'd like the full content. What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
What work are you referring to? (I know, DVs) but what part of the job? To lube the o-rings before installation? Thx - LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:47 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Vaseline or silicone grease works better. Vaseline is actually the specified material -- it IS hydrocarbon wax, after all. Don't use anything but pure stuff, no scents or etc. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Brake parts cleaner in the aerosol can -- What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I use Diesel Purge to lubricate the o-rings. On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.netwrote: Vaseline or silicone grease works better. Vaseline is actually the specified material -- it IS hydrocarbon wax, after all. Don't use anything but pure stuff, no scents or etc. Peter -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
The lockdown straps are splined. You stack two on a DV and leave the ends facing out, their thickness is more than a 1/4. I then used either a 17mm or 11/16 crowsfoot with a long extension going straight up and past the intake. You have to connect the torque wrench 90 degrees from the strap ends, otherwise you would extend the length of the wrench and the torque would be off. I had the DVs snug so the straps did not have much travel before torque was achieved. Harry . - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Thx for that Harry - You wrote I used the hold down straps as a wrench to do the torque. You didn't use a torque wrench? Don't understand --- LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:44 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I use brake parts cleaner and air to blow it dry. To find the leakers, sprinkle some baby powder around the DVs and watch. I've done two 603s without problems and on the first one, I used the hold down straps as a wrench to do the torque. I did however follow the procedures with care. Harry - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Thx for the instructions! Yes, I'd like the full content. What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
this than the later ones and I KNOW that the 6 cylinder versions are much worse than the 4 or 5 cylinder pumps. Marshall I did it without removing the intake manifold, 603. I did remove the air pipe form the turbo. Take loose Inj line clips at the bolts. Push the back 3 lines aside, but don't try to remove the back three lines with the unbolted manifold holders still clipped to the lines. I know Marshall always cautioned about torqueing the delivery valves carefully. My experience has been that everything is ok as long as you follow the procedure and don't try to put on 36 Nm of torque in place of 35. BTW, the old German that trained me to work on Deutz Engines said that 25 ft-lb is as tight as you can go with your thumb over the nut . (in other words, with only 4 fingers on the wrench and your thumb on the opposite side of the nut.) It is a great torque-limiting technique. Notice that 25 ft-lb is just under 35 NM. I am so confident in this that I can do the delivery valve job without a torque wrench. Dieselhead Thx for the instructions! Yes, I'd like the full content. What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect the 3 stage procedure for torqueing is to insure accuracy so there must have been problems in the past. Is the metal on the IP where the DV's are installed perhaps soft which could lead to inaccurate settings? Just curious --- Thx for the suggestion - - LarryT 91 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:21:36 -0600 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: Im going to save that to put up on okiebenz if I ever get around to doing the article section. So you will include it with the information and pictures I sent? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
IF you sent me info and pictures I may or may not have it around somewhere. I need to start digging thru my stuff and getting it up there. Craig McCluskey wrote: On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:21:36 -0600 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: Im going to save that to put up on okiebenz if I ever get around to doing the article section. So you will include it with the information and pictures I sent? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:32:02 -0600 Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: IF you sent me info and pictures I may or may not have it around somewhere. I need to start digging thru my stuff and getting it up there. I sent you the following ZIP files of pictures: 940K Dec 19 2005 Alternator.zip 1.6M Dec 19 2005 Axle.shaft.change.zip 4.8M Dec 19 2005 Dashboard.zip 1.2M Dec 19 2005 Fuel.tank+sender.zip 5.1M Dec 19 2005 Hirschmann.Antenna.zip 1.5M Dec 19 2005 Hood.Hinges.zip 6.3M Dec 20 2005 Injection.Pump+Injectors.1.zip 4.1M Dec 20 2005 Injection.Pump+Injectors.2.zip 261K Dec 3 2005 Vacuum.system.zip 1.1M Dec 19 2005 W123.Seat.zip If you want, I can send them again. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Thanks Harry -- I'm sure it'll make sense when I actually do it following your excellent directions - LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:41 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The lockdown straps are splined. You stack two on a DV and leave the ends facing out, their thickness is more than a 1/4. I then used either a 17mm or 11/16 crowsfoot with a long extension going straight up and past the intake. You have to connect the torque wrench 90 degrees from the strap ends, otherwise you would extend the length of the wrench and the torque would be off. I had the DVs snug so the straps did not have much travel before torque was achieved. Harry . - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Thx for that Harry - You wrote I used the hold down straps as a wrench to do the torque. You didn't use a torque wrench? Don't understand --- LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:44 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job I use brake parts cleaner and air to blow it dry. To find the leakers, sprinkle some baby powder around the DVs and watch. I've done two 603s without problems and on the first one, I used the hold down straps as a wrench to do the torque. I did however follow the procedures with care. Harry - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Thx for the instructions! Yes, I'd like the full content. What do you use to wash things off with as you work? Kero / Diesel? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 602-962 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 8:20 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Doing one at a time is excess work. I have done 4 OM603s with good results by following the instructions. As with all injector work, cleanliness is the primary concern. After the deck is cleaned, and you start to remove the DVs, I back them out until the oring starts to show, then wash the DV and deck again. When the oring is leaking, it is crumbling. Lots of little black stuff is released and needs to be washed off. As you back out the DV, keep washing and blowing off the DV and deck. I take off and replace one DV at a time, up to the final torque. After the last DV is done, then replace the lines, bleed the air and tighten down the line at the injector. I also replace the DV springs while I am in there. It is just a precaution, and quite inexpensive. Don't replace only the leaking orings. You will be right back doing the job again. Taking off the intake manifold does make the job easier, but is not necessary. If I ever have need to remove the intake manifold, I change the orings, unless I know the orings are under 2 years old. I also order 8 orings, 8 copper seals and 6 springs to do the job. Sometimes it is necessary to pull one back out, and that usually results in a cut oring, and the copper seal should also be replaced. Having spares cuts a week off the duration of the job. (Waiting for more orings to be delivered) IF you don't have it, I will email the instructions I have accumulated from this list over time. You need to be clean and be careful, but it is not that hard of a job, and I think the dangers are overstated, unless you try to use air tools to install the delivery valves. Max wrote Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? That's a good idea. I'll have to clean things really good to determine which is the primary culprit/s. Usually the engine is pretty clean but it's been so cold that I haven't been able to rinse it off. At the moment there's a thin film of diesel around all 5 DV hold down clamps. BTW, what kind of noise should I be listening for? I wonder how the factory/dealer does them to make sure they do it right the first time (also know as DIRTFT) ? I'm sure the factory uses a special tool to screw all 5 or 6 in at once, but if I'm very careful with my torque wrench I should be able to duplicate the torque on each DV pretty precisely, I think. I suspect
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Hi Max, I've yet to do my DVs since it's so greatly improved following the MMs - but the DVS are leaking and need t be changed. I was considering your suggestion about doing 1, start the engine, then move to the next one. When I looked at my 91 300D, it looks like I need to at least partly remove the manifold to access the rear 3 or 4 DVs so I'd rather not try your procedure. However, you said Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, - that's pretty depressing! Do it right and STILL have a problem? Jeez, what a PITA. I may have to let the dealer do it if that's the way it is. I really don't want to damage the IP! Please explain how I might follow the torque instructions and *still* have a problem --- Or better, how can I follow the instructions and do it *right* the first time? Gotta go, my head is spinning. Time to defornicate...;-) LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Hi Max - One more question about doing the DVs - if I go ahead and do all 5 DVs and restart only when all are done, could I look for noise with a mechanics stethoscope? I can tell I need to listen carefully to the IP for noise *before* repairing the DV's. Thx agn for the help - LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Yes, the stethoscope would be of great value and would probably allow you to narrow down to the one or two DV's that were making the noise. However, I would use it between each DV during the engine re-start to reduce or eliminate the extra noise from having the intake manifold removed. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:10 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Hi Max - One more question about doing the DVs - if I go ahead and do all 5 DVs and restart only when all are done, could I look for noise with a mechanics stethoscope? I can tell I need to listen carefully to the IP for noise *before* repairing the DV's. Thx agn for the help - LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
According to my recollection of Marshall Booth's descriptions, it is possible to follow correct torque procedure (30Nm - release - 30Nm - release - 35Nm - lockdown) and still warp the IP body, which requires a re-do. My idea of doing one at a time (when doing them all) would help you determine which one had warped the IP body. I admit I've only rebuilt all of them at once on two different motors, and on neither motor did I start the engine between each DV rebuilt. Both were OM60x engines and on neither did I have any problems, but a thought experiment lead me to believe that an engine start to listen to the IP between each DV might be wise. Could be either too difficult or worthless if you have the intake manifold off when you re-start and can't hear anything different because of the extra noise from the intake openings in the head. Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:05 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Hi Max, I've yet to do my DVs since it's so greatly improved following the MMs - but the DVS are leaking and need t be changed. I was considering your suggestion about doing 1, start the engine, then move to the next one. When I looked at my 91 300D, it looks like I need to at least partly remove the manifold to access the rear 3 or 4 DVs so I'd rather not try your procedure. However, you said Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, - that's pretty depressing! Do it right and STILL have a problem? Jeez, what a PITA. I may have to let the dealer do it if that's the way it is. I really don't want to damage the IP! Please explain how I might follow the torque instructions and *still* have a problem --- Or better, how can I follow the instructions and do it *right* the first time? Gotta go, my head is spinning. Time to defornicate...;-) LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Doing them one by one and testing between on an OM606 is a major PITA; you have to pull all of the injector pipes and the manifold (for turbos, you have to remove the bolt securing the charge air pipe from the bottom) I believe the issue with warping the IP is due to the valve elements propensity for being off-center in the bores. If you carefully center the elements you may not have trouble. Disclaimer: I've only done the job once on each of the 2 OM606's that we have -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:15, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil wrote: According to my recollection of Marshall Booth's descriptions, it is possible to follow correct torque procedure (30Nm - release - 30Nm - release - 35Nm - lockdown) and still warp the IP body, which requires a re-do. My idea of doing one at a time (when doing them all) would help you determine which one had warped the IP body. I admit I've only rebuilt all of them at once on two different motors, and on neither motor did I start the engine between each DV rebuilt. Both were OM60x engines and on neither did I have any problems, but a thought experiment lead me to believe that an engine start to listen to the IP between each DV might be wise. Could be either too difficult or worthless if you have the intake manifold off when you re-start and can't hear anything different because of the extra noise from the intake openings in the head. Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:05 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Hi Max, I've yet to do my DVs since it's so greatly improved following the MMs - but the DVS are leaking and need t be changed. I was considering your suggestion about doing 1, start the engine, then move to the next one. When I looked at my 91 300D, it looks like I need to at least partly remove the manifold to access the rear 3 or 4 DVs so I'd rather not try your procedure. However, you said Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, - that's pretty depressing! Do it right and STILL have a problem? Jeez, what a PITA. I may have to let the dealer do it if that's the way it is. I really don't want to damage the IP! Please explain how I might follow the torque instructions and *still* have a problem --- Or better, how can I follow the instructions and do it *right* the first time? Gotta go, my head is spinning. Time to defornicate...;-) LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Doing them one at a time and then testing on an OM606 is a MAJOR pain; you have to -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:15, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil wrote: According to my recollection of Marshall Booth's descriptions, it is possible to follow correct torque procedure (30Nm - release - 30Nm - release - 35Nm - lockdown) and still warp the IP body, which requires a re-do. My idea of doing one at a time (when doing them all) would help you determine which one had warped the IP body. I admit I've only rebuilt all of them at once on two different motors, and on neither motor did I start the engine between each DV rebuilt. Both were OM60x engines and on neither did I have any problems, but a thought experiment lead me to believe that an engine start to listen to the IP between each DV might be wise. Could be either too difficult or worthless if you have the intake manifold off when you re-start and can't hear anything different because of the extra noise from the intake openings in the head. Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:05 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Hi Max, I've yet to do my DVs since it's so greatly improved following the MMs - but the DVS are leaking and need t be changed. I was considering your suggestion about doing 1, start the engine, then move to the next one. When I looked at my 91 300D, it looks like I need to at least partly remove the manifold to access the rear 3 or 4 DVs so I'd rather not try your procedure. However, you said Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, - that's pretty depressing! Do it right and STILL have a problem? Jeez, what a PITA. I may have to let the dealer do it if that's the way it is. I really don't want to damage the IP! Please explain how I might follow the torque instructions and *still* have a problem --- Or better, how can I follow the instructions and do it *right* the first time? Gotta go, my head is spinning. Time to defornicate...;-) LarryT 91 300D OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Oops. Fat fingers and iPhones have slight compatibility issues... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jan 8, 2010, at 16:26, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Doing them one at a time and then testing on an OM606 is a MAJOR pain; you have to -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:15, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC, 53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil wrote: According to my recollection of Marshall Booth's descriptions, it is possible to follow correct torque procedure (30Nm - release - 30Nm - release - 35Nm - lockdown) and still warp the IP body, which requires a re-do. My idea of doing one at a time (when doing them all) would help you determine which one had warped the IP body. I admit I've only rebuilt all of them at once on two different motors, and on neither motor did I start the engine between each DV rebuilt. Both were OM60x engines and on neither did I have any problems, but a thought experiment lead me to believe that an engine start to listen to the IP between each DV might be wise. Could be either too difficult or worthless if you have the intake manifold off when you re-start and can't hear anything different because of the extra noise from the intake openings in the head. Maybe you should only do the leaking DV's in order to reduce the possibility of a problem? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:05 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I've done the job on 2 603's and 2 602s - doing all the valves at once, and never had a problem. I did follow the instructions to the letter, and was very careful. Some were leaking before, noe after. Never did notice any change in noise. On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 3:33 PM, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Doing them one by one and testing between on an OM606 is a major PITA; you have to pull all of the injector pipes and the manifold (for turbos, you have to remove the bolt securing the charge air pipe from the bottom) I believe the issue with warping the IP is due to the valve elements propensity for being off-center in the bores. If you carefully center the elements you may not have trouble. Disclaimer: I've only done the job once on each of the 2 OM606's that we have -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
They also torque to approx 50Nm as well. Each bore is an independent component (as compared to being integrated into the IP body), made of steel (not aluminium), so they can take a little abuse. Iirc, that style of pump was used in some 84's and 85's. (I can check my 85 300D tonight) That style of pump does not have the o-rings that fail either; it has a metal to metal seal (flat seats, the elements are not smaller than the barrels they reside in) and are less likely to leak. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jan 5, 2010, at 21:31, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: If my memory is correct, the Gump is an OM615, and if so, has regular hex for the Delivery valve body. No special socket needed. While the other precautions are good to heed, the older pumps are not as sensitive to over-torqueing as the OM60x IP and the later 617 IP. It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
I need to preface all the below with on caveat: assumptions are made about your IP being similar to later engines (OM617, OM60x). -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:07 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Having been the source of much of the fornication of the jobs on Gump, I pay dearly for the defornication. Water pump was a good example. Found out that I had the original pump, and the nuts were welded on by age. No matter how carefully I tried, three were not going to let go. I had removed two of the nuts fine and the third resulted in a snapped off bolt. That led to less care taken in removing any others, and I had two shorn bolts to show for the job. Shop ended up making it all good. For $600. Or the wiggly shifter and less than snappish gear selection fix. How hard could it be to replace some silly bushings so the excess slop is cured? Remove old, insert new! Yeah, sure. Remove old, end up cross engaging gears and seizing transmission while installing bushings. I still have the old tranny seized up in the garage. clay On Jan 5, 2010, at 5:06 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
Any chance of a new shop? I snapped off one bolt on the water pump on my 617. I simply drilled out the hole to the next larger size, cut new threads and used a bigger bolt. Later I learned that the water pump housing on a 617 is replaceable, and I probably could have gotten a used one pretty cheaply. $600 seems pretty excessive, but again I've got zero experience with the motor in your car (OM621?). -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Having been the source of much of the fornication of the jobs on Gump, I pay dearly for the defornication. Water pump was a good example. Found out that I had the original pump, and the nuts were welded on by age. No matter how carefully I tried, three were not going to let go. I had removed two of the nuts fine and the third resulted in a snapped off bolt. That led to less care taken in removing any others, and I had two shorn bolts to show for the job. Shop ended up making it all good. For $600. Or the wiggly shifter and less than snappish gear selection fix. How hard could it be to replace some silly bushings so the excess slop is cured? Remove old, insert new! Yeah, sure. Remove old, end up cross engaging gears and seizing transmission while installing bushings. I still have the old tranny seized up in the garage. clay On Jan 5, 2010, at 5:06 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
OM615 They had to remove the body from the block and put new housing on. The drill out by me would have resulted in even more damage and I was just trying to replace the stupid gasket, so cost included the whole housing and pump. clay On Jan 5, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Any chance of a new shop? I snapped off one bolt on the water pump on my 617. I simply drilled out the hole to the next larger size, cut new threads and used a bigger bolt. Later I learned that the water pump housing on a 617 is replaceable, and I probably could have gotten a used one pretty cheaply. $600 seems pretty excessive, but again I've got zero experience with the motor in your car (OM621?). -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job Having been the source of much of the fornication of the jobs on Gump, I pay dearly for the defornication. Water pump was a good example. Found out that I had the original pump, and the nuts were welded on by age. No matter how carefully I tried, three were not going to let go. I had removed two of the nuts fine and the third resulted in a snapped off bolt. That led to less care taken in removing any others, and I had two shorn bolts to show for the job. Shop ended up making it all good. For $600. Or the wiggly shifter and less than snappish gear selection fix. How hard could it be to replace some silly bushings so the excess slop is cured? Remove old, insert new! Yeah, sure. Remove old, end up cross engaging gears and seizing transmission while installing bushings. I still have the old tranny seized up in the garage. clay On Jan 5, 2010, at 5:06 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
If my memory is correct, the Gump is an OM615, and if so, has regular hex for the Delivery valve body. No special socket needed. While the other precautions are good to heed, the older pumps are not as sensitive to over-torqueing as the OM60x IP and the later 617 IP. It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
She has some splined bits, but locks in with hex type holders. One has to remove the locking bit, then you can use the special tool to spin them out. Being careful to not allow the spring to sproing and take the inner magic doinky with it. Really the delicate operation that SWMBA is better able to do, but at $450/hr billing rate, I think the shop is much less expensive. clay On Jan 5, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Dieselhead wrote: If my memory is correct, the Gump is an OM615, and if so, has regular hex for the Delivery valve body. No special socket needed. While the other precautions are good to heed, the older pumps are not as sensitive to over-torqueing as the OM60x IP and the later 617 IP. It's not that bad, just requires very specific steps, cleanliness, patience, and the right tools including the special socket and a torque wrench, and some parts. However, easy to screw up and cause expensive damage if done wrong, so handing off to a pro is the right choice in some circumstances. If you detect any new noises from the injection pump, one or more of the DV's has not set correctly during the torque procedure and needs to be re-torqued (torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 30Nm, release, torque to 35Nm and lock down). Easy to do the procedure right and still have a problem, but that noise is due to a warped IP body which will cause expensive damage if not fixed. For that reason and to avoid confusion about which DV might be the cause of such a hypothetical noise, I think it's best to do one DV at a time and start-run the engine briefly after each DV has been re-sealed and locked down. I like the new word: defornicate. Don't mis-underestimate its uses! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Redghost Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:49 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Fuel delivery valve job
The indy scared me about this job. He said it is too delicate for him to do, but I suspect it is more that Gump is a heap and he is not interested in keeping her on the road. He agreed to do the job anyway. I have done enough of these sorts of simple jobs that end up screwing the car up. Figured it would just save us all headache to have a pro do it, since the past few times under the hood, I ended up having a shop defornicate the mess I made. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
