Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I like that.  Good idea.

-D


> On Nov 22, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Three moves equals a fire, or so we used to say in Saudi.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Three moves equals a fire, or so we used to say in Saudi.

On Nov 22, 2017 2:38 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> I have a wonderful Panasonic 3CCD HDV camcorder with all sorts of stuff,
> like a Rode shotgun mic, hoods, etc.  It has absolutely no value today but
> I use it pretty often.  I wouldn’t give it up for anything.
>
> Moving provides a really good opportunity to declutter.  You realize that
> theres a lot of crap you’ve accumulated that when it gets down to the
> details you simply don’t care a lot about….
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I wanted a small house for two reasons:It's easy to heat/cool. And it's
> easy to clean.  I'm in declutter mode lately, lots of stuff that doesn't
> get much used needs to find a new home. Anybody want an HDV camcorder? Good
> camera but it uses tapes. I'll even throw in a tape...Ignore the property
> sticker from my previous employer.
> > Curt
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The mic is probably worth keeping, they don't change a whole lot.
In the new year I need a new camera. Most YouTubers are going with DSLRs but 
for video they're really a compromise. It's going to be hard to find one in my 
$1000 price range that does what I want...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes wrote:   I have a wonderful Panasonic 3CCD HDV 
camcorder with all sorts of stuff, like a Rode shotgun mic, hoods, etc.  It has 
absolutely no value today but I use it pretty often.  I wouldn’t give it up for 
anything.

Moving provides a really good opportunity to declutter.  You realize that 
theres a lot of crap you’ve accumulated that when it gets down to the details 
you simply don’t care a lot about….

-D


> On Nov 22, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wanted a small house for two reasons:It's easy to heat/cool. And it's easy 
> to clean.  I'm in declutter mode lately, lots of stuff that doesn't get much 
> used needs to find a new home. Anybody want an HDV camcorder? Good camera but 
> it uses tapes. I'll even throw in a tape...Ignore the property sticker from 
> my previous employer.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I have a wonderful Panasonic 3CCD HDV camcorder with all sorts of stuff, like a 
Rode shotgun mic, hoods, etc.  It has absolutely no value today but I use it 
pretty often.  I wouldn’t give it up for anything.

Moving provides a really good opportunity to declutter.  You realize that 
theres a lot of crap you’ve accumulated that when it gets down to the details 
you simply don’t care a lot about….

-D


> On Nov 22, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wanted a small house for two reasons:It's easy to heat/cool. And it's easy 
> to clean.  I'm in declutter mode lately, lots of stuff that doesn't get much 
> used needs to find a new home. Anybody want an HDV camcorder? Good camera but 
> it uses tapes. I'll even throw in a tape...Ignore the property sticker from 
> my previous employer.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I wanted a small house for two reasons:It's easy to heat/cool. And it's easy to 
clean.  I'm in declutter mode lately, lots of stuff that doesn't get much used 
needs to find a new home. Anybody want an HDV camcorder? Good camera but it 
uses tapes. I'll even throw in a tape...Ignore the property sticker from my 
previous employer.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Randy Bennell via 
Mercedes wrote:   On 22/11/2017 2:15 PM, Curt Raymond 
via Mercedes wrote:
> Humble? My 900sq home is humble...
> -Curt

I trust it suits you.
It must limit, to a great extent, the amount of "stuff" that you can 
accumulate.
Most folks seem to fill whatever space they have with "stuff".

RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

RB writes:

>‎Most folks seem to fill whatever space >they have with "stuff".

Probably a corollary to Parkinson's Law.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That is “Dan’s Law”.  To-wit:

“The amount of crap you have accumulated will always expand to exceed the 
available storage space.”

The only place I wasn’t able to prove this was when we lived in the 4,000 SF 
Momolith.  I attribute the failure to achieve the expected outcome to a lack of 
time, as we were there barely two years.

-D


> On Nov 22, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 22/11/2017 2:15 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>> Humble? My 900sq home is humble...
>> -Curt
> 
> I trust it suits you.
> It must limit, to a great extent, the amount of "stuff" that you can 
> accumulate.
> Most folks seem to fill whatever space they have with "stuff".
> 
> RB
> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

G: wrote:
> ...
> G: BBM can upstage me. When we retired wife wanted to buy one of the 
> mini-mansions in this subdivision, but I won out and we built a humble little 
> 2200 sq.ft. 3/2 with a detached 600 sq.ft. workshop, and since she died, I've 
> lived like a poor man in keeping with Mies Van Der Rohe's principle that 
> "form follows function".
> It is also in keeping with the principle of humility since America seems to be
>  short of that basic principle in our Judeo-Christian nation.
> 

Nice comments... Thanks.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 22/11/2017 2:15 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Humble? My 900sq home is humble...
-Curt


I trust it suits you.
It must limit, to a great extent, the amount of "stuff" that you can 
accumulate.

Most folks seem to fill whatever space they have with "stuff".

RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Humble? My 900sq home is humble...
-Curt
 

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 1:38:39 AM EST, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 ...
G: BBM can upstage me. When we retired wife wanted to buy one of the 
mini-mansions in this subdivision, but I won out and we built a humble little 
2200 sq.ft. 3/2 with a detached 600 sq.ft. workshop, and since she died, I've 
lived like a poor man in keeping with Mies Van Der Rohe's principle that "form 
follows function".
It is also in keeping with the principle of humility since America seems to be
 short of that basic principle in our Judeo-Christian nation.

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> I see...  My upstagement manifests in World's Best cat litter and Spot's
> Stew dry food.
> 
 Buggered Benzmail wrote:
> > 1) one has to fund the finer things in life with sacrifices in other
> > aspects of life
> > 2) I need someone in my life to upstage!
> > --R

> > > On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
> > > beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
> > > this list?
...
G: This isn't an unprestigious group. We have doctors, lawyers, engineers, 
computer experts, retired executives, and and a reknowned sales manager in 
Oklahoma; wealthy in Mercedes if not in money.
 Our fine Mercedes are not decrepit; they are the "senior citizens" of the car 
world; dignified and contempuous of the tiny little 4 wheel boxes erroneously 
refered to as automobiles. 
.
> > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Same thing out here in CA. Perfectly good stuff, just not the right
> > style.
> > >>
> > >> When I redid a kitchen in DC, the contractor was the main guy doing home
> > >> depot remods. He said every time the administration goes from dem to
> > rep,
> > >> all the modern kitchens get torn out and replaced with traditional
> > stuff as
> > >> the occupants change, then presumably back again when things go the
> > other
> > >> way. Nothing to do with being worn out.
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 21, 2017 6:16 AM, "Floyd Thursby via Mercedes" <
> > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> For my bathroom stone (rain forest green "marble") I went to a local
> > shop
> > >>> that is/was owned by an Iranian from California, sold tile and all
> > kinds
> > >> of
> > >>> stone stuff from a warehouse.  He would have auctions every 6 months or
> > >> so
> > >>> and sell big lots of stuff pretty cheap.  I think he just imported
> > >>> container loads of it from Italy and the ME so not a lot of markup.  He
> > >> had
> > >>> 7 prefabbed slabs 8ft long of this stone, got all of them for like
> > >> $800.  I
> > >>> initially only bought 5, there were two left that had some cracks or
> > >> chunks
> > >>> broken off or something, he tried to get me to buy those too for the
> > same
> > >>> price, I ended up giving him $100 for both I think, and he was in pain
> > (I
> > >>> felt good about beating down a rug, er, stone, merchant).  My Russian
> > >> stone
> > >>> guy ("Eugene" or Yevgeny I think) fabbed them for me, he didn't care.
> > >> They
> > >>> came out very nice.  I still have 2 of them to use for something,
> > >> sometime,
> > >>> maybe.
> > >>>
> > >>> The kitchen island stone was a VERY expensive slab of "Fusion" granite
> > >>> (actually not granite but some other kind of stone), it was pretty big,
> > >> so
> > >>> even after fabbing the top I had a piece about 30"x 70" left over for
> > >>> something in the future.  It is gorgeous stuff.
> > >>>
> > >>> Down at the luxury gated resort community the rich folks buy these 4
> > or 5
> > >>> year old houses, do a gut job, then completely redo them.  I had a
> > buddy
> > >>> who was a builder over there, he told me about tearing out very
> > high-end
> > >>> stuff from houses that had barely been used as 2nd or 3rd homes,
> > >> beautiful
> > >>> stone, Viking appliances, cherry, walnut, exotic flooring, cabinets,
> > all
> > >>> kinds of stuff. Usually he or his guys would just take it and either
> > sell
> > >>> it or use it or give it away. He completely remodeled his son's house
> > >> using
> > >>> these recycled materials, said it was gorgeous when he finished with
> > >> it.  I
> > >>> kept after him to let me in on some of this but he never did. (Some
> > buddy
> > >>> huh?)
> > >>>
> > >>> --FT
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >  On 11/18/17 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> > 
> >  All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t
> > >> remember
> >  what the discount was, but it was nice. 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

My understanding is that floor heaters result in _lower_ heating bills,
because if the floor is warm the rest of the house can be cooler yet the
occupants are equally comfortable.

High ceilings in a bathroom would mean much less steamy mirrors after a
shower, less necessity of venting the house to the outside in the cooler
months, assuming you have such.  Winters here you have extremely dry
interiors, so preserving the shower heat/moisture is a good thing.  Venting
a clothes dryer inside here would/could be a good thing for half the year,
assuming the lint situation was sufficiently controlled.  Me?  I line-dry
most of my clothes.  Inside.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That works.

I will say that I was skeptical of the heated floor thing when we had it in the 
Momolith in Indy.  I was sure it would cost a small fortune to operate.  When I 
did the research and found it was very low wattage I immediately fired it up.  
Ours had programmable timers on them so you would set it up to start warming 
about 2:00-3:00 am and shut off around 5:00 or 6:00.  By 5:00-ish the tile 
floors would be nice and toasty.  Wonderful thing on those cold winter mornings.

And I saw no perceptible difference in electrical costs when they were in use.

-D


> On Nov 22, 2017, at 10:10 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well it is about 20ft up above the kitchen space so it doesn't stir up much 
> cruft but just sorta gently stirs the air a bit to get warm air down from the 
> peak in the winter, which makes a big difference.  I usually have it on idle 
> thrust not takeoff thrust so it doesn't stir much else up.
> 
> The one in the bathroom is on most of the time just to keep air circulating.  
> I find the floor heater keeps it pretty warm in there so the fan distributes 
> the air from the peak too.
> 
> --FT
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Well it is about 20ft up above the kitchen space so it doesn't stir up 
much cruft but just sorta gently stirs the air a bit to get warm air 
down from the peak in the winter, which makes a big difference.  I 
usually have it on idle thrust not takeoff thrust so it doesn't stir 
much else up.


The one in the bathroom is on most of the time just to keep air 
circulating.  I find the floor heater keeps it pretty warm in there so 
the fan distributes the air from the peak too.


--FT


On 11/22/17 7:59 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I’m not sure I would want a ceiling fan in a kitchen, considering all the cruft 
it would stir up, but definitely in the bathroom.  We have one in ours and I I 
find it nice as it helps to dry you off after a shower, as well as keeping air 
moving so mirrors don’t steam up.

-D


On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:12 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Yep exactly. I put in fans in the bathroom, bedroom, and kitchen above + loft. 
They make a big difference.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m not sure I would want a ceiling fan in a kitchen, considering all the cruft 
it would stir up, but definitely in the bathroom.  We have one in ours and I I 
find it nice as it helps to dry you off after a shower, as well as keeping air 
moving so mirrors don’t steam up.

-D

> On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:12 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yep exactly. I put in fans in the bathroom, bedroom, and kitchen above + 
> loft. They make a big difference. 
> 
> --R


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Yep exactly. I put in fans in the bathroom, bedroom, and kitchen above + loft. 
They make a big difference. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Nov 22, 2017, at 12:24 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Depending on your climate, a ceiling fan in the bath can be a great feature.  
> A little excess ceiling height is great for such a fan.
> Scott
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From:  Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
>> 
>> Well it is a timber frame structure and in the bano the peak goes up like
>> another 6 ft or so from the 9ft wall height which makes it 15ft I guess. I
>> probably actually knew how high it was at some time in the process but I
>> forget. Maybe tomorrow I’ll measure it.
>> 
>> The open peak above the kitchen is probably about 24 or 25 ft up. Maybe
>> more, I forget that too. It’s kinda spectacular. The sense I was going for 
>> when I
>> designed it. It was a challenge for the framer, who is now my buddy, but he
>> was really proud of how they managed to construct it.
>> 
>> Marshhouseaddition.blogspot.com has lots of pics.
>> 
>> --R
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Depending on your climate, a ceiling fan in the bath can be a great feature.  A 
little excess ceiling height is great for such a fan.
Scott

> -Original Message-
> From:  Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
> 
> Well it is a timber frame structure and in the bano the peak goes up like
> another 6 ft or so from the 9ft wall height which makes it 15ft I guess. I
> probably actually knew how high it was at some time in the process but I
> forget. Maybe tomorrow I’ll measure it.
> 
> The open peak above the kitchen is probably about 24 or 25 ft up. Maybe
> more, I forget that too. It’s kinda spectacular. The sense I was going for 
> when I
> designed it. It was a challenge for the framer, who is now my buddy, but he
> was really proud of how they managed to construct it.
> 
> Marshhouseaddition.blogspot.com has lots of pics.
> 
> --R


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Well it is a timber frame structure and in the bano the peak goes up like 
another 6 ft or so from the 9ft wall height which makes it 15ft I guess. I 
probably actually knew how high it was at some time in the process but I 
forget. Maybe tomorrow I’ll measure it. 

The open peak above the kitchen is probably about 24 or 25 ft up. Maybe more, I 
forget that too. It’s kinda spectacular. The sense I was going for when I 
designed it. It was a challenge for the framer, who is now my buddy, but he was 
really proud of how they managed to construct it. 

Marshhouseaddition.blogspot.com has lots of pics. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Nov 21, 2017, at 11:34 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 13:39:42 -0600
> Randy Bennell via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
>> On 21/11/2017 1:20 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
 On November 21, 2017 at 10:45 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 
 Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
 beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
 this list?
>>> Because he likes to spend his money on appreciating luxury items (nicer 
>>> than necessary houses) instead of on depreciating luxury items (pretty much 
>>> everything else)?
>>> 
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>> OR, maybe because his wife wanted that sort of bath?
>> 
>> RB (who has a double vanity with 2 sinks because his wife picked out the 
>> vanity, one of which is never used but it only cost another few hundred 
>> $$ for the tap set on that unused sink)
> .
> The 14 ft ceiling in the bath gives it away. We all know Rich is something of 
> a joker. His bath has a 14 ft ceiling so that when someone is bending over 
> after a bath, he sneaks in and gives him/her the Trump salute, and the victim 
> goes straight up, he/she won't bang his/her head on the ceiling. There's no 
> other reason for having a 14 ft ceiling in a bathroom.
> Gerry  
> ..
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 13:39:42 -0600
Randy Bennell via Mercedes  wrote:

> On 21/11/2017 1:20 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
> >> On November 21, 2017 at 10:45 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
> >> beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
> >> this list?
> > Because he likes to spend his money on appreciating luxury items (nicer 
> > than necessary houses) instead of on depreciating luxury items (pretty much 
> > everything else)?
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
> > ___
> >
> OR, maybe because his wife wanted that sort of bath?
> 
> RB (who has a double vanity with 2 sinks because his wife picked out the 
> vanity, one of which is never used but it only cost another few hundred 
> $$ for the tap set on that unused sink)
.
The 14 ft ceiling in the bath gives it away. We all know Rich is something of a 
joker. His bath has a 14 ft ceiling so that when someone is bending over after 
a bath, he sneaks in and gives him/her the Trump salute, and the victim goes 
straight up, he/she won't bang his/her head on the ceiling. There's no other 
reason for having a 14 ft ceiling in a bathroom.
Gerry  
..



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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

...
G: BBM can upstage me. When we retired wife wanted to buy one of the 
mini-mansions in this subdivision, but I won out and we built a humble little 
2200 sq.ft. 3/2 with a detached 600 sq.ft. workshop, and since she died, I've 
lived like a poor man in keeping with Mies Van Der Rohe's principle that "form 
follows function".
It is also in keeping with the principle of humility since America seems to be
 short of that basic principle in our Judeo-Christian nation.

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> I see...  My upstagement manifests in World's Best cat litter and Spot's
> Stew dry food.
> 
 Buggered Benzmail wrote:
> > 1) one has to fund the finer things in life with sacrifices in other
> > aspects of life
> > 2) I need someone in my life to upstage!
> > --R

> > > On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
> > > beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
> > > this list?
...
G: This isn't an unprestigious group. We have doctors, lawyers, engineers, 
computer experts, retired executives, and and a reknowned sales manager in 
Oklahoma; wealthy in Mercedes if not in money.
 Our fine Mercedes are not decrepit; they are the "senior citizens" of the car 
world; dignified and contempuous of the tiny little 4 wheel boxes erroneously 
refered to as automobiles. 
.
> > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Same thing out here in CA. Perfectly good stuff, just not the right
> > style.
> > >>
> > >> When I redid a kitchen in DC, the contractor was the main guy doing home
> > >> depot remods. He said every time the administration goes from dem to
> > rep,
> > >> all the modern kitchens get torn out and replaced with traditional
> > stuff as
> > >> the occupants change, then presumably back again when things go the
> > other
> > >> way. Nothing to do with being worn out.
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 21, 2017 6:16 AM, "Floyd Thursby via Mercedes" <
> > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> For my bathroom stone (rain forest green "marble") I went to a local
> > shop
> > >>> that is/was owned by an Iranian from California, sold tile and all
> > kinds
> > >> of
> > >>> stone stuff from a warehouse.  He would have auctions every 6 months or
> > >> so
> > >>> and sell big lots of stuff pretty cheap.  I think he just imported
> > >>> container loads of it from Italy and the ME so not a lot of markup.  He
> > >> had
> > >>> 7 prefabbed slabs 8ft long of this stone, got all of them for like
> > >> $800.  I
> > >>> initially only bought 5, there were two left that had some cracks or
> > >> chunks
> > >>> broken off or something, he tried to get me to buy those too for the
> > same
> > >>> price, I ended up giving him $100 for both I think, and he was in pain
> > (I
> > >>> felt good about beating down a rug, er, stone, merchant).  My Russian
> > >> stone
> > >>> guy ("Eugene" or Yevgeny I think) fabbed them for me, he didn't care.
> > >> They
> > >>> came out very nice.  I still have 2 of them to use for something,
> > >> sometime,
> > >>> maybe.
> > >>>
> > >>> The kitchen island stone was a VERY expensive slab of "Fusion" granite
> > >>> (actually not granite but some other kind of stone), it was pretty big,
> > >> so
> > >>> even after fabbing the top I had a piece about 30"x 70" left over for
> > >>> something in the future.  It is gorgeous stuff.
> > >>>
> > >>> Down at the luxury gated resort community the rich folks buy these 4
> > or 5
> > >>> year old houses, do a gut job, then completely redo them.  I had a
> > buddy
> > >>> who was a builder over there, he told me about tearing out very
> > high-end
> > >>> stuff from houses that had barely been used as 2nd or 3rd homes,
> > >> beautiful
> > >>> stone, Viking appliances, cherry, walnut, exotic flooring, cabinets,
> > all
> > >>> kinds of stuff. Usually he or his guys would just take it and either
> > sell
> > >>> it or use it or give it away. He completely remodeled his son's house
> > >> using
> > >>> these recycled materials, said it was gorgeous when he finished with
> > >> it.  I
> > >>> kept after him to let me in on some of this but he never did. (Some
> > buddy
> > >>> huh?)
> > >>>
> > >>> --FT
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >  On 11/18/17 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> > 
> >  All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t
> > >> remember
> >  what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of
> > your
> >  local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some
> > of
> >  the "scraps".
> > 
> > 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 21/11/2017 1:20 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

On November 21, 2017 at 10:45 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:


Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
this list?

Because he likes to spend his money on appreciating luxury items (nicer than 
necessary houses) instead of on depreciating luxury items (pretty much 
everything else)?

Mitch.

___


OR, maybe because his wife wanted that sort of bath?

RB (who has a double vanity with 2 sinks because his wife picked out the 
vanity, one of which is never used but it only cost another few hundred 
$$ for the tap set on that unused sink)



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On November 21, 2017 at 10:45 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
> beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
> this list?

Because he likes to spend his money on appreciating luxury items (nicer than 
necessary houses) instead of on depreciating luxury items (pretty much 
everything else)?

Mitch.

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I see...  My upstagement manifests in World's Best cat litter and Spot's
Stew dry food.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> 1) one has to fund the finer things in life with sacrifices in other
> aspects of life
> 2) I need someone in my life to upstage!
>
> --R
> Sent from iPhone
>
> > On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
> > beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
> > this list?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Same thing out here in CA. Perfectly good stuff, just not the right
> style.
> >>
> >> When I redid a kitchen in DC, the contractor was the main guy doing home
> >> depot remods. He said every time the administration goes from dem to
> rep,
> >> all the modern kitchens get torn out and replaced with traditional
> stuff as
> >> the occupants change, then presumably back again when things go the
> other
> >> way. Nothing to do with being worn out.
> >>
> >> On Nov 21, 2017 6:16 AM, "Floyd Thursby via Mercedes" <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> For my bathroom stone (rain forest green "marble") I went to a local
> shop
> >>> that is/was owned by an Iranian from California, sold tile and all
> kinds
> >> of
> >>> stone stuff from a warehouse.  He would have auctions every 6 months or
> >> so
> >>> and sell big lots of stuff pretty cheap.  I think he just imported
> >>> container loads of it from Italy and the ME so not a lot of markup.  He
> >> had
> >>> 7 prefabbed slabs 8ft long of this stone, got all of them for like
> >> $800.  I
> >>> initially only bought 5, there were two left that had some cracks or
> >> chunks
> >>> broken off or something, he tried to get me to buy those too for the
> same
> >>> price, I ended up giving him $100 for both I think, and he was in pain
> (I
> >>> felt good about beating down a rug, er, stone, merchant).  My Russian
> >> stone
> >>> guy ("Eugene" or Yevgeny I think) fabbed them for me, he didn't care.
> >> They
> >>> came out very nice.  I still have 2 of them to use for something,
> >> sometime,
> >>> maybe.
> >>>
> >>> The kitchen island stone was a VERY expensive slab of "Fusion" granite
> >>> (actually not granite but some other kind of stone), it was pretty big,
> >> so
> >>> even after fabbing the top I had a piece about 30"x 70" left over for
> >>> something in the future.  It is gorgeous stuff.
> >>>
> >>> Down at the luxury gated resort community the rich folks buy these 4
> or 5
> >>> year old houses, do a gut job, then completely redo them.  I had a
> buddy
> >>> who was a builder over there, he told me about tearing out very
> high-end
> >>> stuff from houses that had barely been used as 2nd or 3rd homes,
> >> beautiful
> >>> stone, Viking appliances, cherry, walnut, exotic flooring, cabinets,
> all
> >>> kinds of stuff. Usually he or his guys would just take it and either
> sell
> >>> it or use it or give it away. He completely remodeled his son's house
> >> using
> >>> these recycled materials, said it was gorgeous when he finished with
> >> it.  I
> >>> kept after him to let me in on some of this but he never did. (Some
> buddy
> >>> huh?)
> >>>
> >>> --FT
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 11/18/17 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> 
>  All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t
> >> remember
>  what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of
> your
>  local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some
> of
>  the "scraps".
> 
>  On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really
> > like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I
> >> had
> > better like it. Don't ask.).
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> > Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
> >> distribution of shattered dish shards.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's
> >> held
> >>
> >>> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It
> gives
> >>> the
> >>> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> >>> treatment.
> >>> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality
> of
> >> it
> >>> being used for countertops.
> >>> Gerry
> >>> ~~
> >>> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The biggest 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

1) one has to fund the finer things in life with sacrifices in other aspects of 
life
2) I need someone in my life to upstage!

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
> beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
> this list?
> 
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Same thing out here in CA. Perfectly good stuff, just not the right style.
>> 
>> When I redid a kitchen in DC, the contractor was the main guy doing home
>> depot remods. He said every time the administration goes from dem to rep,
>> all the modern kitchens get torn out and replaced with traditional stuff as
>> the occupants change, then presumably back again when things go the other
>> way. Nothing to do with being worn out.
>> 
>> On Nov 21, 2017 6:16 AM, "Floyd Thursby via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> For my bathroom stone (rain forest green "marble") I went to a local shop
>>> that is/was owned by an Iranian from California, sold tile and all kinds
>> of
>>> stone stuff from a warehouse.  He would have auctions every 6 months or
>> so
>>> and sell big lots of stuff pretty cheap.  I think he just imported
>>> container loads of it from Italy and the ME so not a lot of markup.  He
>> had
>>> 7 prefabbed slabs 8ft long of this stone, got all of them for like
>> $800.  I
>>> initially only bought 5, there were two left that had some cracks or
>> chunks
>>> broken off or something, he tried to get me to buy those too for the same
>>> price, I ended up giving him $100 for both I think, and he was in pain (I
>>> felt good about beating down a rug, er, stone, merchant).  My Russian
>> stone
>>> guy ("Eugene" or Yevgeny I think) fabbed them for me, he didn't care.
>> They
>>> came out very nice.  I still have 2 of them to use for something,
>> sometime,
>>> maybe.
>>> 
>>> The kitchen island stone was a VERY expensive slab of "Fusion" granite
>>> (actually not granite but some other kind of stone), it was pretty big,
>> so
>>> even after fabbing the top I had a piece about 30"x 70" left over for
>>> something in the future.  It is gorgeous stuff.
>>> 
>>> Down at the luxury gated resort community the rich folks buy these 4 or 5
>>> year old houses, do a gut job, then completely redo them.  I had a buddy
>>> who was a builder over there, he told me about tearing out very high-end
>>> stuff from houses that had barely been used as 2nd or 3rd homes,
>> beautiful
>>> stone, Viking appliances, cherry, walnut, exotic flooring, cabinets, all
>>> kinds of stuff. Usually he or his guys would just take it and either sell
>>> it or use it or give it away. He completely remodeled his son's house
>> using
>>> these recycled materials, said it was gorgeous when he finished with
>> it.  I
>>> kept after him to let me in on some of this but he never did. (Some buddy
>>> huh?)
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> 
 On 11/18/17 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
 
 All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t
>> remember
 what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of your
 local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some of
 the "scraps".
 
 On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really
> like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I
>> had
> better like it. Don't ask.).
> 
> --FT
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> 
> Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
>> distribution of shattered dish shards.
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's
>> held
>> 
>>> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives
>>> the
>>> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
>>> treatment.
>>> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of
>> it
>>> being used for countertops.
>>> Gerry
>>> ~~
>>> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
>>> 
>>> The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
 value
 of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
 everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
 
 On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica
>> 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Rich, with a bathroom like that  how come you 1) drive decrepit old
beaters, and 2) associate with such an unprestigious group as comprises
this list?

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Same thing out here in CA. Perfectly good stuff, just not the right style.
>
> When I redid a kitchen in DC, the contractor was the main guy doing home
> depot remods. He said every time the administration goes from dem to rep,
> all the modern kitchens get torn out and replaced with traditional stuff as
> the occupants change, then presumably back again when things go the other
> way. Nothing to do with being worn out.
>
> On Nov 21, 2017 6:16 AM, "Floyd Thursby via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > For my bathroom stone (rain forest green "marble") I went to a local shop
> > that is/was owned by an Iranian from California, sold tile and all kinds
> of
> > stone stuff from a warehouse.  He would have auctions every 6 months or
> so
> > and sell big lots of stuff pretty cheap.  I think he just imported
> > container loads of it from Italy and the ME so not a lot of markup.  He
> had
> > 7 prefabbed slabs 8ft long of this stone, got all of them for like
> $800.  I
> > initially only bought 5, there were two left that had some cracks or
> chunks
> > broken off or something, he tried to get me to buy those too for the same
> > price, I ended up giving him $100 for both I think, and he was in pain (I
> > felt good about beating down a rug, er, stone, merchant).  My Russian
> stone
> > guy ("Eugene" or Yevgeny I think) fabbed them for me, he didn't care.
> They
> > came out very nice.  I still have 2 of them to use for something,
> sometime,
> > maybe.
> >
> > The kitchen island stone was a VERY expensive slab of "Fusion" granite
> > (actually not granite but some other kind of stone), it was pretty big,
> so
> > even after fabbing the top I had a piece about 30"x 70" left over for
> > something in the future.  It is gorgeous stuff.
> >
> > Down at the luxury gated resort community the rich folks buy these 4 or 5
> > year old houses, do a gut job, then completely redo them.  I had a buddy
> > who was a builder over there, he told me about tearing out very high-end
> > stuff from houses that had barely been used as 2nd or 3rd homes,
> beautiful
> > stone, Viking appliances, cherry, walnut, exotic flooring, cabinets, all
> > kinds of stuff. Usually he or his guys would just take it and either sell
> > it or use it or give it away. He completely remodeled his son's house
> using
> > these recycled materials, said it was gorgeous when he finished with
> it.  I
> > kept after him to let me in on some of this but he never did. (Some buddy
> > huh?)
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > On 11/18/17 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t
> remember
> >> what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of your
> >> local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some of
> >> the "scraps".
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really
> >>> like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I
> had
> >>> better like it. Don't ask.).
> >>>
> >>> --FT
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
>  distribution of shattered dish shards.
> 
>  On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's
> held
> 
> > up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives
> > the
> > impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> > treatment.
> > Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of
> it
> > being used for countertops.
> > Gerry
> > ~~
> > Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> >
> > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
> >> value
> >> of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> >> everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica
> for
> >> me.
> >> Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
> >> free,
> >> no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> >> Maple
> >> has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> >>
> >>> I am glad to see that the 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Same thing out here in CA. Perfectly good stuff, just not the right style.

When I redid a kitchen in DC, the contractor was the main guy doing home
depot remods. He said every time the administration goes from dem to rep,
all the modern kitchens get torn out and replaced with traditional stuff as
the occupants change, then presumably back again when things go the other
way. Nothing to do with being worn out.

On Nov 21, 2017 6:16 AM, "Floyd Thursby via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> For my bathroom stone (rain forest green "marble") I went to a local shop
> that is/was owned by an Iranian from California, sold tile and all kinds of
> stone stuff from a warehouse.  He would have auctions every 6 months or so
> and sell big lots of stuff pretty cheap.  I think he just imported
> container loads of it from Italy and the ME so not a lot of markup.  He had
> 7 prefabbed slabs 8ft long of this stone, got all of them for like $800.  I
> initially only bought 5, there were two left that had some cracks or chunks
> broken off or something, he tried to get me to buy those too for the same
> price, I ended up giving him $100 for both I think, and he was in pain (I
> felt good about beating down a rug, er, stone, merchant).  My Russian stone
> guy ("Eugene" or Yevgeny I think) fabbed them for me, he didn't care.  They
> came out very nice.  I still have 2 of them to use for something, sometime,
> maybe.
>
> The kitchen island stone was a VERY expensive slab of "Fusion" granite
> (actually not granite but some other kind of stone), it was pretty big, so
> even after fabbing the top I had a piece about 30"x 70" left over for
> something in the future.  It is gorgeous stuff.
>
> Down at the luxury gated resort community the rich folks buy these 4 or 5
> year old houses, do a gut job, then completely redo them.  I had a buddy
> who was a builder over there, he told me about tearing out very high-end
> stuff from houses that had barely been used as 2nd or 3rd homes, beautiful
> stone, Viking appliances, cherry, walnut, exotic flooring, cabinets, all
> kinds of stuff. Usually he or his guys would just take it and either sell
> it or use it or give it away. He completely remodeled his son's house using
> these recycled materials, said it was gorgeous when he finished with it.  I
> kept after him to let me in on some of this but he never did. (Some buddy
> huh?)
>
> --FT
>
>
> On 11/18/17 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t remember
>> what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of your
>> local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some of
>> the "scraps".
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really
>>> like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I had
>>> better like it. Don't ask.).
>>>
>>> --FT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>>
>>> Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
 distribution of shattered dish shards.

 On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

 Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held

> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives
> the
> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> treatment.
> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
> being used for countertops.
> Gerry
> ~~
> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
>
> The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
>> value
>> of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
>> everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
>> me.
>> Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
>> free,
>> no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
>> Maple
>> has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
>>
>>> I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
>>>
>>> shovel
>> to bury it.
>>
>>> OK Don via Mercedes 
>>>
 November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
 We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than

 black -
>>>
>> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <


 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

For my bathroom stone (rain forest green "marble") I went to a local 
shop that is/was owned by an Iranian from California, sold tile and all 
kinds of stone stuff from a warehouse.  He would have auctions every 6 
months or so and sell big lots of stuff pretty cheap.  I think he just 
imported container loads of it from Italy and the ME so not a lot of 
markup.  He had 7 prefabbed slabs 8ft long of this stone, got all of 
them for like $800.  I initially only bought 5, there were two left that 
had some cracks or chunks broken off or something, he tried to get me to 
buy those too for the same price, I ended up giving him $100 for both I 
think, and he was in pain (I felt good about beating down a rug, er, 
stone, merchant).  My Russian stone guy ("Eugene" or Yevgeny I think) 
fabbed them for me, he didn't care.  They came out very nice.  I still 
have 2 of them to use for something, sometime, maybe.


The kitchen island stone was a VERY expensive slab of "Fusion" granite 
(actually not granite but some other kind of stone), it was pretty big, 
so even after fabbing the top I had a piece about 30"x 70" left over for 
something in the future.  It is gorgeous stuff.


Down at the luxury gated resort community the rich folks buy these 4 or 
5 year old houses, do a gut job, then completely redo them.  I had a 
buddy who was a builder over there, he told me about tearing out very 
high-end stuff from houses that had barely been used as 2nd or 3rd 
homes, beautiful stone, Viking appliances, cherry, walnut, exotic 
flooring, cabinets, all kinds of stuff. Usually he or his guys would 
just take it and either sell it or use it or give it away. He completely 
remodeled his son's house using these recycled materials, said it was 
gorgeous when he finished with it.  I kept after him to let me in on 
some of this but he never did. (Some buddy huh?)


--FT


On 11/18/17 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t remember
what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of your
local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some of
the "scraps".

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really
like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I had
better like it. Don't ask.).

--FT



On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:


Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
distribution of shattered dish shards.

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held

up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the
impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
treatment.
Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
being used for countertops.
Gerry
~~
Andrew Strasfogel wrote:


The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
value
of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
me.
Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
free,
no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
Maple
has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.

I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a


shovel
to bury it.

OK Don via Mercedes 

November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than


black -

it's black with blue iridescent flakes.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <


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To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

My new bathroom I built has heated tile floors, a party shower (about 
5'x5'), a 6ft whirlpool tub, 2 separate sinks wtih countertops, mirrors, 
cabinets, and a WC for the terlet.  And a big cabinets for towels and 
linens and such.  Also a 14ft ceiling under the timber frame and 2 big 
skylights, and is mostly all windows for walls.  It's like being outside 
in the woods, but quite luxurious.  It's not that big really, but I 
managed to fit all that in quite nicely.  I like it.


--R (who might be stupid, but is enjoying it)


On 11/17/17 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

The master bath in our former house in Indianapolis had a really nice master 
bath.  It wasn’t huge, but it had a lot of nice amenities, such as heated 
floors, a “party shower” that was about 6’x6’ with two shower heads and body 
sprays, big soaking tub, etc.  The heated floors were especially nice in those 
cold winter months.

My youngest son, who was about 16 at the time, coined the phrase “party shower” 
when he first saw it.  Not sure where that came from, didn’t want to know….

-D



On Nov 17, 2017, at 1:04 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  
wrote:

On a related topic, I think huge master bathrooms really stupid.  Double sinks, separate 
tub and shower, toilet compartment, all fine.  But those huge bathrooms that can hold an 
entire "tour of homes" group are a poor use of space not to mention cleaning.
Scott.


-Original Message-
From:  Curley McLain via Mercedes
I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free, no
maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple has
all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.

I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel to
bury it.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Wasnt there, so I cannot comment, but not many of them are soapstone any
more. One version of the laminate is called toplab. The straight phenolic
paper version is also widely used as a dimensionally stable vacuum surface
for cnc router tables.

On Nov 20, 2017 8:02 PM, "Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I always thought the chem lab benches in my (late 50s, early 60s) HS were
> soapstone, and I spent a LOT of time there. Am I mistaken?
>
> I do also recall "No zinc in the sink!"
>
> Greg
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Karl
> Wittnebel via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:06 PM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz com
> Cc: Karl Wittnebel
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase
>
> We ran with porcelain countertops in the kitchen. Hard on dishes but you
> can put a hot frying pan directly down on it. Installing tomorrow. Will see
> how we get by.
>
> I wanted to use phenolic laminate, but got voted down. Like the high
> school chemistry lab tables. Comes in all sorts of colors, easy to clean,
> very strong.
>
> On Nov 17, 2017 6:27 PM, "OK Don via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> The current granite has some kind of a polymer seal that mitigates most of
> the issues it first had as a counter top. THough we only lived there five
> years after installing, the granite looked like new when we left. We still
> have a slab of it on the dinning room table, and it still looks like new
> with only wiping it down once in a while.
>
> We had a new shower built/installed last year - a local company makes them
> from the same stuff that Corian is made from, though he custom mixes his
> own colors. It's pricy, but gorgeous (and the wife is now happy!).
>
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's
> > held up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It
> > gives the impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains
> > and rough treatment.
> > Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of
> > it being used for countertops.
> > Gerry
> > ~~
> > Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
> value
> > > of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> > > everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica
> > > > for
> > me.
> > > > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter,
> > > > trouble
> > free,
> > > > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> > Maple
> > > > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> > > >
> > > > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> > shovel
> > > > to bury it.
> > > >
> > > >> OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> November 16,
> > > >> 2017 at 8:27 PM We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even
> > > >> more stunning than
> > black -
> > > >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > arche...@embarqmail.com <arche...@embarqmail.com>
> >
> > ---
> > This 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

I always thought the chem lab benches in my (late 50s, early 60s) HS were 
soapstone, and I spent a LOT of time there. Am I mistaken?

I do also recall "No zinc in the sink!"

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Karl 
Wittnebel via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:06 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz com
Cc: Karl Wittnebel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

We ran with porcelain countertops in the kitchen. Hard on dishes but you can 
put a hot frying pan directly down on it. Installing tomorrow. Will see how we 
get by.

I wanted to use phenolic laminate, but got voted down. Like the high school 
chemistry lab tables. Comes in all sorts of colors, easy to clean, very strong.

On Nov 17, 2017 6:27 PM, "OK Don via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

The current granite has some kind of a polymer seal that mitigates most of the 
issues it first had as a counter top. THough we only lived there five years 
after installing, the granite looked like new when we left. We still have a 
slab of it on the dinning room table, and it still looks like new with only 
wiping it down once in a while.

We had a new shower built/installed last year - a local company makes them from 
the same stuff that Corian is made from, though he custom mixes his own colors. 
It's pricy, but gorgeous (and the wife is now happy!).

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes < 
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's 
> held up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It 
> gives the impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains 
> and rough treatment.
> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of 
> it being used for countertops.
> Gerry
> ~~
> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
value
> > of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went 
> > everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes < 
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica 
> > > for
> me.
> > > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, 
> > > trouble
> free,
> > > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> Maple
> > > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> > >
> > > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> shovel
> > > to bury it.
> > >
> > >> OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> November 16, 
> > >> 2017 at 8:27 PM We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even 
> > >> more stunning than
> black -
> > >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> --
> arche...@embarqmail.com <arche...@embarqmail.com>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


--
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our 
people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who 
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for 
themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okie

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I am very fearful of setting a hot pan on my granite counter top, due to
what it might do to the seal...

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:19 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I always wondered what those chem lab counter tops were made of.
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > We ran with porcelain countertops in the kitchen. Hard on dishes but you
> > can put a hot frying pan directly down on it. Installing tomorrow. Will
> see
> > how we get by.
> >
> > I wanted to use phenolic laminate, but got voted down. Like the high
> school
> > chemistry lab tables. Comes in all sorts of colors, easy to clean, very
> > strong.
> >
> > On Nov 17, 2017 6:27 PM, "OK Don via Mercedes" 
> > wrote:
> >
> > The current granite has some kind of a polymer seal that mitigates most
> of
> > the issues it first had as a counter top. THough we only lived there five
> > years after installing, the granite looked like new when we left. We
> still
> > have a slab of it on the dinning room table, and it still looks like new
> > with only wiping it down once in a while.
> >
> > We had a new shower built/installed last year - a local company makes
> them
> > from the same stuff that Corian is made from, though he custom mixes his
> > own colors. It's pricy, but gorgeous (and the wife is now happy!).
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's
> held
> > > up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives
> the
> > > impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> > > treatment.
> > > Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
> > > being used for countertops.
> > > Gerry
> > > ~~
> > > Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > > > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
> > value
> > > > of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> > > > everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica
> for
> > > me.
> > > > > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter,
> trouble
> > > free,
> > > > > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> > > Maple
> > > > > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> > > shovel
> > > > > to bury it.
> > > > >
> > > > >> OK Don via Mercedes 
> > > > >> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
> > > > >> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than
> > > black -
> > > > >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > ___
> > > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > > >
> > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > > >
> > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > arche...@embarqmail.com 
> > >
> > > ---
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > > http://www.avg.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
> of
> > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> >
> > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
> who
> > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> > for themselves."
> >
> > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I always wondered what those chem lab counter tops were made of.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We ran with porcelain countertops in the kitchen. Hard on dishes but you
> can put a hot frying pan directly down on it. Installing tomorrow. Will see
> how we get by.
>
> I wanted to use phenolic laminate, but got voted down. Like the high school
> chemistry lab tables. Comes in all sorts of colors, easy to clean, very
> strong.
>
> On Nov 17, 2017 6:27 PM, "OK Don via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
>
> The current granite has some kind of a polymer seal that mitigates most of
> the issues it first had as a counter top. THough we only lived there five
> years after installing, the granite looked like new when we left. We still
> have a slab of it on the dinning room table, and it still looks like new
> with only wiping it down once in a while.
>
> We had a new shower built/installed last year - a local company makes them
> from the same stuff that Corian is made from, though he custom mixes his
> own colors. It's pricy, but gorgeous (and the wife is now happy!).
>
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held
> > up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the
> > impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> > treatment.
> > Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
> > being used for countertops.
> > Gerry
> > ~~
> > Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
> value
> > > of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> > > everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
> > me.
> > > > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
> > free,
> > > > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> > Maple
> > > > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> > > >
> > > > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> > shovel
> > > > to bury it.
> > > >
> > > >> OK Don via Mercedes 
> > > >> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
> > > >> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than
> > black -
> > > >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > arche...@embarqmail.com 
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > http://www.avg.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
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*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: 

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

We ran with porcelain countertops in the kitchen. Hard on dishes but you
can put a hot frying pan directly down on it. Installing tomorrow. Will see
how we get by.

I wanted to use phenolic laminate, but got voted down. Like the high school
chemistry lab tables. Comes in all sorts of colors, easy to clean, very
strong.

On Nov 17, 2017 6:27 PM, "OK Don via Mercedes" 
wrote:

The current granite has some kind of a polymer seal that mitigates most of
the issues it first had as a counter top. THough we only lived there five
years after installing, the granite looked like new when we left. We still
have a slab of it on the dinning room table, and it still looks like new
with only wiping it down once in a while.

We had a new shower built/installed last year - a local company makes them
from the same stuff that Corian is made from, though he custom mixes his
own colors. It's pricy, but gorgeous (and the wife is now happy!).

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held
> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the
> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> treatment.
> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
> being used for countertops.
> Gerry
> ~~
> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
value
> > of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> > everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
> me.
> > > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
> free,
> > > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> Maple
> > > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> > >
> > > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> shovel
> > > to bury it.
> > >
> > >> OK Don via Mercedes 
> > >> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
> > >> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than
> black -
> > >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
>
>
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>
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--
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

+1   TH9s morning we watched part of some un-"reality show" about "log 
cabins."   These heaps were far beyond a cabin.  Far beyond a "log 
house"  THey were closer to CCC lodges, but with stupid oversize 
bathrooms, stupid mc-mansion kitchens and so forth.   Sick people!



Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
November 17, 2017 at 12:04 AM
On a related topic, I think huge master bathrooms really stupid. 
Double sinks, separate tub and shower, toilet compartment, all fine. 
But those huge bathrooms that can hold an entire "tour of homes" group 
are a poor use of space not to mention cleaning.

Scott.




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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Very good advice.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t remember
> what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of your
> local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some of
> the "scraps".
>
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really
> > like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I had
> > better like it. Don't ask.).
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
> >> distribution of shattered dish shards.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held
> >>> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives
> the
> >>> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> >>> treatment.
> >>> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
> >>> being used for countertops.
> >>> Gerry
> >>> ~~
> >>> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> >>>
>  The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
>  value
>  of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
>  everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> 
>  On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
> >
>  me.
> >>>
>  Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
> >
>  free,
> >>>
>  no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> >
>  Maple
> >>>
>  has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> >
> > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> >
>  shovel
> >>>
>  to bury it.
> >
> > OK Don via Mercedes 
> >> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
> >> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than
> >>
> > black -
> >>>
>  it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> > ___
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> 
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> 
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> 
> >>> --
> >>> arche...@embarqmail.com 
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> >>> http://www.avg.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
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> >>>
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> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
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>
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>
>

Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[OK Don via Mercedes]

All of ours came from the left-overs from larger jobs - I don;'t remember
what the discount was, but it was nice. Peruse the scrap section of your
local stone yard if interested. You'd be surprise at the size of some of
the "scraps".

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really
> like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I had
> better like it. Don't ask.).
>
> --FT
>
>
>
> On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
>> distribution of shattered dish shards.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held
>>> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the
>>> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
>>> treatment.
>>> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
>>> being used for countertops.
>>> Gerry
>>> ~~
>>> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
>>>
 The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise
 value
 of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
 everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.

 On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

 I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
>
 me.
>>>
 Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
>
 free,
>>>
 no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
>
 Maple
>>>
 has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
>
> I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
>
 shovel
>>>
 to bury it.
>
> OK Don via Mercedes 
>> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
>> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than
>>
> black -
>>>
 it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
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>>> --
>>> arche...@embarqmail.com 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
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>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

You just have to be somewhat careful of putting stuff on it.  I really 
like the granite I put in (given what the piece on the island cost, I 
had better like it. Don't ask.).


--FT


On 11/17/17 2:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
distribution of shattered dish shards.

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held
up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the
impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
treatment.
Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
being used for countertops.
Gerry
~~
Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise value
of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for

me.

Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble

free,

no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.

Maple

has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.

I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a

shovel

to bury it.


OK Don via Mercedes 
November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than

black -

it's black with blue iridescent flakes.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <



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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The current granite has some kind of a polymer seal that mitigates most of
the issues it first had as a counter top. THough we only lived there five
years after installing, the granite looked like new when we left. We still
have a slab of it on the dinning room table, and it still looks like new
with only wiping it down once in a while.

We had a new shower built/installed last year - a local company makes them
from the same stuff that Corian is made from, though he custom mixes his
own colors. It's pricy, but gorgeous (and the wife is now happy!).

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held
> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the
> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> treatment.
> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
> being used for countertops.
> Gerry
> ~~
> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise value
> > of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> > everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
> me.
> > > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
> free,
> > > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> Maple
> > > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> > >
> > > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> shovel
> > > to bury it.
> > >
> > >> OK Don via Mercedes 
> > >> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
> > >> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than
> black -
> > >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> --
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>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 14:16:24 -0500 archer75--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> 
> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's
> held up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It
> gives the impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and
> rough treatment. Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the
> practicality of it being used for countertops. Gerry

We put LG Viatera countertops - similar to Corian -- in our house in Los
Alamos.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[MG via Mercedes]

We raised 4 girls with 1 bathroom. Not a problem.

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I don't understand double sinks, you can't brush your teeth together? I guess 
if both the husband and wife are doing their makeup at the same time.
The other day on Reddit I said that a 4 bedroom house wasn't modest. They 
jumped all over me, I think a 2 bedroom house is modest for a couple if you had 
4 kids a bigger house would make more sense but the folks that owned our house 
raised 2 kids in it...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:   On a related topic, I think huge master bathrooms really stupid.  Double sinks, separate tub and shower, toilet compartment, all fine.  But those huge bathrooms that can hold an entire "tour of homes" group are a poor use of space not to mention cleaning.

Scott.


-Original Message-
From:  Curley McLain via Mercedes
I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free, no
maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple has
all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.

I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel to
bury it.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Not practical unless you want to demonstrate the bell curve for the
distribution of shattered dish shards.

On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:16 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held
> up better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the
> impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough
> treatment.
> Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it
> being used for countertops.
> Gerry
> ~~
> Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> > The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise value
> > of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> > everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for
> me.
> > > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble
> free,
> > > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.
> Maple
> > > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> > >
> > > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a
> shovel
> > > to bury it.
> > >
> > >> OK Don via Mercedes 
> > >> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
> > >> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than
> black -
> > >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
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> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > >
> > >
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Wife selected (Corian?) when we built this house 22 years ago. It's held up 
better than Formica and essentially still looks like new. It gives the 
impression of marble but seems to be impervious to stains and rough treatment.
Granite is great for tombstones, but I can't see the practicality of it being 
used for countertops.
Gerry
~~
Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise value
> of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
> everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.
> 
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
> > Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free,
> > no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple
> > has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> >
> > I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel
> > to bury it.
> >
> >> OK Don via Mercedes 
> >> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
> >> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than black -
> >> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >>
> >>
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I don't understand double sinks, you can't brush your teeth together? I guess 
if both the husband and wife are doing their makeup at the same time.
The other day on Reddit I said that a 4 bedroom house wasn't modest. They 
jumped all over me, I think a 2 bedroom house is modest for a couple if you had 
4 kids a bigger house would make more sense but the folks that owned our house 
raised 2 kids in it...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Scott Ritchey via 
Mercedes wrote:   On a related topic, I think huge 
master bathrooms really stupid.  Double sinks, separate tub and shower, toilet 
compartment, all fine.  But those huge bathrooms that can hold an entire "tour 
of homes" group are a poor use of space not to mention cleaning.
Scott.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Curley McLain via Mercedes
> I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
> Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free, no
> maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple has
> all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> 
> I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel to
> bury it.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

OK, it’s early.  Yes, it was a really big house (+4,000 sf) but….

-D

> On Nov 17, 2017, at 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The master bath in our former house in Indianapolis had a really nice master 
> bath.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The master bath in our former house in Indianapolis had a really nice master 
bath.  It wasn’t huge, but it had a lot of nice amenities, such as heated 
floors, a “party shower” that was about 6’x6’ with two shower heads and body 
sprays, big soaking tub, etc.  The heated floors were especially nice in those 
cold winter months.

My youngest son, who was about 16 at the time, coined the phrase “party shower” 
when he first saw it.  Not sure where that came from, didn’t want to know….

-D


> On Nov 17, 2017, at 1:04 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On a related topic, I think huge master bathrooms really stupid.  Double 
> sinks, separate tub and shower, toilet compartment, all fine.  But those huge 
> bathrooms that can hold an entire "tour of homes" group are a poor use of 
> space not to mention cleaning.
> Scott.
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From:  Curley McLain via Mercedes
>> I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
>> Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free, no
>> maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple has
>> all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
>> 
>> I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel to
>> bury it.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

+1

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Curley McLain via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:21 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase
> 
> I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
> Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free, no
> maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple has
> all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> 
> I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel to
> bury it.
> > OK Don via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> November 16,
> 2017
> > at 8:27 PM We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more
> > stunning than black - it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >
> 
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

On a related topic, I think huge master bathrooms really stupid.  Double sinks, 
separate tub and shower, toilet compartment, all fine.  But those huge 
bathrooms that can hold an entire "tour of homes" group are a poor use of space 
not to mention cleaning.
Scott.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Curley McLain via Mercedes
> I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
> Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free, no
> maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple has
> all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
> 
> I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel to
> bury it.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The biggest advantage of granite is that it teaches you the precise value
of infinity.  I dropped a plate on the counter and the shards went
everywhere.  I counted them up and it totaled exactly infinity.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for me.
> Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, trouble free,
> no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria growth.  Maple
> has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.
>
> I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a shovel
> to bury it.
>
>> OK Don via Mercedes 
>> November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
>> We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than black -
>> it's black with blue iridescent flakes.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I despise rock for a countertop.  Hard maple, or at least formica for 
me.  Formica is superior to rock in many ways.  cheaper, lighter, 
trouble free, no maintenance, and a smoother surface to prevent bacteria 
growth.  Maple has all that over rock, plus it is a natural antibacterial.


I am glad to see that the rock countertop craze is dying.  Gimme a 
shovel to bury it.

OK Don via Mercedes 
November 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM
We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than black -
it's black with blue iridescent flakes.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <



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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[OK Don via Mercedes]

We think that our "blue pearl" granite is even more stunning than black -
it's black with blue iridescent flakes.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We have black granite in our kitchen and bar area.  Black granite is out of
> fashion now but IMHO it is stunning.  Everyone wants Corian or the new
> white sparkly synthetic counter top material.  Bologna.
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > On November 16, 2017 at 2:31 PM Dan--- via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m getting ready to make new kitchen cabinets after the first of the
> > year. Think a small “L” of base cabinets, one wall of overhead cabinets
> and
> > the base cabinets.  I’ll probably spend $1500-$2000 in materials alone.
> >
> > I'm going to reface my existing cabinets. They're solid enough, just made
> > of 1970s style walnut stained oak, showing wear and needing restyling.
> >
> > I'll make the door frames out of 4/4 cherry, door centers from 1/4" grade
> > A cherry plywood, and glue cherry ply to the cabinet faces.
> >
> > I'll be putting in a new floor and rearranging the base cabinets, but the
> > uppers I'll just leave on the wall and redo them in place. I'll Toss the
> > old exposed hinges and use Blum Blumotion soft close hinges and drawer
> > slides.
> >
> > Countertop will be black granite tile framed with cherry.
> > I spent about $300 on wood and granite (got a pile of cherry boards for
> > $50)
> > and will spend several hundred on hardware.
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
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OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Those food snobs would probably demand Mortadella!

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curley 
McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 4:22 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Curley McLain
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase



> Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> November 16, 
> 2017 at 5:49 PM
>
>
> Never though about using bologna for a countertop. Does it hold up well?
>
> -D
>
So long as you don't invite in hungry Eye-tal-eens 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
November 16, 2017 at 5:49 PM


Never though about using bologna for a countertop. Does it hold up well?

-D


So long as you don't invite in hungry Eye-tal-eens
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The people that were trying to flip our house and got caught by the economy 
tanking put in marble countertops.  On top of the existing contractor grade 
cabinets.  It looks really weird.  We don’t know for sure but we think they 
stopped in the middle of the rehab and tried to cut their losses.

So I have really nice countertops but crappy cabinets.

Never though about using bologna for a countertop.  Does it hold up well?

-D


> On Nov 16, 2017, at 3:53 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> We have black granite in our kitchen and bar area.  Black granite is out of
> fashion now but IMHO it is stunning.  Everyone wants Corian or the new
> white sparkly synthetic counter top material.  Bologna.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

We have black granite in our kitchen and bar area.  Black granite is out of
fashion now but IMHO it is stunning.  Everyone wants Corian or the new
white sparkly synthetic counter top material.  Bologna.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On November 16, 2017 at 2:31 PM Dan--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I’m getting ready to make new kitchen cabinets after the first of the
> year. Think a small “L” of base cabinets, one wall of overhead cabinets and
> the base cabinets.  I’ll probably spend $1500-$2000 in materials alone.
>
> I'm going to reface my existing cabinets. They're solid enough, just made
> of 1970s style walnut stained oak, showing wear and needing restyling.
>
> I'll make the door frames out of 4/4 cherry, door centers from 1/4" grade
> A cherry plywood, and glue cherry ply to the cabinet faces.
>
> I'll be putting in a new floor and rearranging the base cabinets, but the
> uppers I'll just leave on the wall and redo them in place. I'll Toss the
> old exposed hinges and use Blum Blumotion soft close hinges and drawer
> slides.
>
> Countertop will be black granite tile framed with cherry.
> I spent about $300 on wood and granite (got a pile of cherry boards for
> $50)
> and will spend several hundred on hardware.
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On November 16, 2017 at 2:31 PM Dan--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I’m getting ready to make new kitchen cabinets after the first of the year. 
> Think a small “L” of base cabinets, one wall of overhead cabinets and the 
> base cabinets.  I’ll probably spend $1500-$2000 in materials alone.

I'm going to reface my existing cabinets. They're solid enough, just made of 
1970s style walnut stained oak, showing wear and needing restyling. 

I'll make the door frames out of 4/4 cherry, door centers from 1/4" grade A 
cherry plywood, and glue cherry ply to the cabinet faces. 

I'll be putting in a new floor and rearranging the base cabinets, but the 
uppers I'll just leave on the wall and redo them in place. I'll Toss the old 
exposed hinges and use Blum Blumotion soft close hinges and drawer slides. 

Countertop will be black granite tile framed with cherry. 
I spent about $300 on wood and granite (got a pile of cherry boards for $50)
and will spend several hundred on hardware. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

I’m getting ready to make new kitchen cabinets after the first of the year. 
Think a small “L” of base cabinets, one wall of overhead cabinets and the base 
cabinets.  I’ll probably spend $1500-$2000 in materials alone.

These will be custom cabinets made out of hardwood, probably oak or something 
better.

-D

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 1:42 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On November 16, 2017 at 1:30 PM Craig via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:43:18 + Donald Snook via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> My friend got a quote for kitchen cabinets for $14,000.  She contacted
>>> her folks and got it for $2000.  
>> 
>> What do her folks do that they can get kitchen cabinets for so little?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking the $14k cabinets and the $2k cabinets aren't comparable. 
> They're marked up, but I can't imagine getting them at a trade discount for 
> less than 40% of MSRP.
> 
> In a small older kitchen, you can get $2k worth of cabinets that don't look 
> too bad, just retail shopping in the box stores:
> https://www.menards.com/main/kitchen/kitchen-cabinets/shop-all-kitchen-cabinets/kl-eumlarve-reg-l-shaped-kitchen-cabinets-only/p-1448474062125.htm
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On November 16, 2017 at 1:30 PM Craig via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:43:18 + Donald Snook via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> > My friend got a quote for kitchen cabinets for $14,000.  She contacted
> > her folks and got it for $2000.  
> 
> What do her folks do that they can get kitchen cabinets for so little?


I'm thinking the $14k cabinets and the $2k cabinets aren't comparable. 
They're marked up, but I can't imagine getting them at a trade discount for 
less than 40% of MSRP.

In a small older kitchen, you can get $2k worth of cabinets that don't look too 
bad, just retail shopping in the box stores:
https://www.menards.com/main/kitchen/kitchen-cabinets/shop-all-kitchen-cabinets/kl-eumlarve-reg-l-shaped-kitchen-cabinets-only/p-1448474062125.htm

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:43:18 + Donald Snook via Mercedes
 wrote:

> My friend got a quote for kitchen cabinets for $14,000.  She contacted
> her folks and got it for $2000.  

What do her folks do that they can get kitchen cabinets for so little?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Randy,  I live in (very) rural central NC, about 20 miles south of the VA line. 
 The builder wanted to rip out the old interior walls so the electrician could 
work from bare studs vs snaking wires through walls and possible fire breaks.  
A real vapor barrier would be a real plus but insulation (especially blown in) 
can be a problem if not done right.  Many old houses have been ruined by poor 
insulation jobs that allowed water to condense inside the walls.  After 
replacing the 1950s wood windows, the place is nearly soundproof with those 
heavy plaster/lath walls.  I did find a place where previous water leaks caused 
the plaster keying to separate from the lath; fortunately it was exposed so I 
reinforced it with fiberglass cloth and resin.  I repainted all those old rooms 
and sealed all cracks with cases of caulk (I was 10+ years younger then), 
sealed ceiling perforations (lights), and installed gaskets on all the switches 
and outlets.  Maybe I should have used vapor-barrier paint but the reviews I 
read were not that positive.  Overall, I think the "old" part is tighter than 
the new addition (about 1000 sf).  The Addition was built to code, with 
insulation bit no vapor barrier.  The reason I needed an addition was because 
it was too hard to incorporate closets, HVAC, laundry facilities, and bathrooms 
in the 1854 structure.

--
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> Bennell via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 11:57 AM
> To: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase
> 

> Where are you?
> I would think the primary advantage of removing old lath and plaster would
> be the oppportunity for good insulation and vapour barrier and that the
> electrical upgrade would just be an added benefit given the opportunity.
> 
> RB
> 
>-
> On 15/11/2017 6:27 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
> >   I did a major upgrade/addition to my 1854 (with 1906 addition)
> house.
> > The contractor wanted to pull down all the plaster/lath so his
> > electrician could rewire existing rooms.  Hell NO! As a compromise, he
> > wired all the new stuff and I replaced the existing knob and tube
> > (plus a lot of old or undersize Romex) with new Romex.  Adding
> > outlets, etc. in plaster/lath was a pain so I only added two outlets
> > to each upstairs bedroom; those rooms are seldom used.  If you haven't
> > done it, there is a huge pile of cement chunks inside those old walls
> > from the initial scratch coat over the lath.  My builder/electrician
> > installed a new breaker panel so I just left long Romex ends for him
> > to connect to the new CB box when he got to that point in the job.
> >   There have been numerous recent changes (like AFCI breakers) in
> > the new code so best review a recent book before any DIY work.
> >   I also added a standby generator; while rewiring was the best
> > time to do that.  My generator transfer switch feeds a 100 amp
> > subpanel for important loads.
> >
> > Scott
> >



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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

+1 on this. Very sound advice. Especially if you live anywhere that has a
rigorous permitting and inspection process, like LA.

On Nov 15, 2017 9:52 AM, "G Mann via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> I have considerable experience in such "projects" so I feel the need to
> offer "free advise" worth every penny it costs you.. [to date, I've
> done 48 houses from like status, so BTDT, in spades]
>
> 1. Do not live in the house while rebuilding it.
>
> 2. Do not live in the house with a spouse while rebuilding it.
>
> 3. If you like the design of the house, take careful drawings of the
> footprint of the house, then call in a demo company that has big equipment
> [like a track hoe with a thumb bucket and semi size dump truck] and hire
> them to demolish the house down to bare dirt. The entire house should be
> gone in one to two days and the new building pad prepared.
>
> 4. Hire an architect to make building plans for the new house you will be
> building on the property.  Hire a competent and well vetted contractor  to
> build that house all the way to finish and paint.
>
> 5. Move into the new house and enjoy it, knowing you can insure it for
> market value of a new house, sell it as a modern house in 5 yrs or when
> ever you wish, having improved the market value. If needed, get a bank
> loan, because it will be "built to code" that is "completely up to date".
> Also, the new buyer will get qualified more quickly because the house will
> be "bankable property".
>
> 6. Rebuilding an old house is an endless set of compromises that become an
> empty pit to throw money into in the end accounting... cheaper and much
> quicker to demo the old one, start fresh...
>
> YMMV of course,
> Grant...
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I have to admit that I am somewhat envious.  I did this on our first
> > house, and while it was a major undertaking, life was far more demanding
> at
> > the time which compounded the process.  Now that my kids are adults and
> > I’ve got a lot more time on my hands it would be far more enjoyable and
> > much less stressful.
> >
> > Sounds like the major issues have been dealt with, so now you just have
> to
> > deal with finishing out the shell.
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > -D
> >
> >
> > > On Nov 15, 2017, at 12:06 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The things I like most are that I am buying it for $40,000 less than
> the
> > County Appraisal.  AND my payments will be less than half of my current
> > mortgage. AND living in a ranch house for the last seven years, this will
> > feel so much more open and have so much more light coming in!
> > >
> > > Don Snook
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 15/11/2017 6:27 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

  I did a major upgrade/addition to my 1854 (with 1906 addition) house.
The contractor wanted to pull down all the plaster/lath so his electrician
could rewire existing rooms.  Hell NO! As a compromise, he wired all the new
stuff and I replaced the existing knob and tube (plus a lot of old or
undersize Romex) with new Romex.  Adding outlets, etc. in plaster/lath was a
pain so I only added two outlets to each upstairs bedroom; those rooms are
seldom used.  If you haven't done it, there is a huge pile of cement chunks
inside those old walls from the initial scratch coat over the lath.  My
builder/electrician installed a new breaker panel so I just left long Romex
ends for him to connect to the new CB box when he got to that point in the
job.
  There have been numerous recent changes (like AFCI breakers) in the new
code so best review a recent book before any DIY work.
  I also added a standby generator; while rewiring was the best time to
do that.  My generator transfer switch feeds a 100 amp subpanel for
important loads.

Scott


Where are you?
I would think the primary advantage of removing old lath and plaster 
would be the oppportunity for good insulation and vapour barrier and 
that the electrical upgrade would just be an added benefit given the 
opportunity.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Sounds like a good plan if you got the new place cheepcheep, you can 
afford to put some dinero in the upgrades.


Put quad outlets like every 3 feet when you redo the wiring, and tons of 
20A circuits, with all the gadgets these days you can't have too many 
outlets close by.


DOES THIS PLACE HAVE A BIG GARAGE?

--FT


On 11/16/17 9:43 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:

Not high.  My client is a real estate developer who has remodeled dozens of 
houses.  In fact, he restored/remodeled the building where he has his office 
and where the firm offices.  He is a great client and we have saved him a ton 
of money.  He has already sent introductory emails to mortgage brokers, 
contractors, interior designers, etc.  All of them replied almost immediately 
to the emails.  They want to keep his business so they have been very 
responsive to my emails.  Most of the work will be done by professionals.  We 
will probably do minor painting.  I'm not even thinking of touching the 
electrical or plumbing.  We are meeting with the kitchen designer today.  My 
friend got a quote for kitchen cabinets for $14,000.  She contacted her folks 
and got it for $2000.

Don Snook

-Original Message-
From: Rick Knoble [mailto:rickkno...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:28 AM
To: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

1. Are you high?
‎2. Contracting the work out (mostly)?
3. ‎Are you doing the work yourself?

If ‎number one, get into rehab (not a rehab house) quick!

If number two, get a premium membership from Angie's List. Make friends at the 
local hardware store/lumber yard to find the best contractors, not the 
cheapest. ‎Being a general contractor is a job. I am sure you are up to the 
task, but you may be hard pressed to find time in your day to get things done.

If number three, God help you. You are taking on another full time job. Full. 
Time. Job. If you are going to attempt to live in the house while it is being 
rehabbed, forget it. It will never be done.

Involve your son, and step daughter (and wife) as much as possible. Yes, it 
will double or triple the time  ‎to complete anything. Oh well. The family that 
works together, stays together. It will be a learning experience for everyone, 
and great family time. I can see Henry and you painting each other, whilst 
painting the walls. Memories to last a lifetime.

Good luck,

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

No.  That's why we can get the worst/most destructive projects done first and 
then move into the house once it sells. 

Don Snook

-Original Message-
From: tyee165 [mailto:tyee...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 1:13 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

Have you sold your old house?


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Donald Snook via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-11-15  9:02 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com> 
Subject: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase I remember a while back, Kaleb posted 
a link to an old house for a possible flip.  I am moving 60 miles to a new town 
and have decided to purchase an old home that needs rehab.  A client of mine is 
a developer and one his employees purchased a house a few months ago for a 
flip.  They had some personal relationship problems and now have to get rid of 
the house.  The style is called an American FourSquare.  They bought the house 
and replaced some windows, did some minor repairs, redid a bathroom, and did 
paint work.  They also demoed the kitchen down to the studs.   I am getting it 
for less than they bought it.   But, it will need to have the entire house 
re-wired as it still has knob and tube throughout.  We will need to add a 
bathroom (in a laundry room where there is already plumbing), drywall the 
kitchen, add cabinets, countertops, etc, and replace two exterior doors.   They 
were living in the house (the bathroom is functional and just needs finish 
work.  They were cooking in a microwave.  It should be a very interesting 
project!

Don Snook
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Not high.  My client is a real estate developer who has remodeled dozens of 
houses.  In fact, he restored/remodeled the building where he has his office 
and where the firm offices.  He is a great client and we have saved him a ton 
of money.  He has already sent introductory emails to mortgage brokers, 
contractors, interior designers, etc.  All of them replied almost immediately 
to the emails.  They want to keep his business so they have been very 
responsive to my emails.  Most of the work will be done by professionals.  We 
will probably do minor painting.  I'm not even thinking of touching the 
electrical or plumbing.  We are meeting with the kitchen designer today.  My 
friend got a quote for kitchen cabinets for $14,000.  She contacted her folks 
and got it for $2000.  

Don Snook

-Original Message-
From: Rick Knoble [mailto:rickkno...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:28 AM
To: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

1. Are you high?
‎2. Contracting the work out (mostly)?
3. ‎Are you doing the work yourself? 

If ‎number one, get into rehab (not a rehab house) quick!

If number two, get a premium membership from Angie's List. Make friends at the 
local hardware store/lumber yard to find the best contractors, not the 
cheapest. ‎Being a general contractor is a job. I am sure you are up to the 
task, but you may be hard pressed to find time in your day to get things done. 

If number three, God help you. You are taking on another full time job. Full. 
Time. Job. If you are going to attempt to live in the house while it is being 
rehabbed, forget it. It will never be done. 

Involve your son, and step daughter (and wife) as much as possible. Yes, it 
will double or triple the time  ‎to complete anything. Oh well. The family that 
works together, stays together. It will be a learning experience for everyone, 
and great family time. I can see Henry and you painting each other, whilst 
painting the walls. Memories to last a lifetime. 

Good luck,

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Get a good electrician.  He may let you put in outlets, switches, 
covers, etc. to save some money.   He will git er done faster than you 
can buy the supplies.



Donald Snook via Mercedes 
November 15, 2017 at 10:41 AM
Kaleb wrote:

"Have fun"


Has anyone had a whole house rewired? That's the project I am most 
anxious about.


Don Snook


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

 I did a major upgrade/addition to my 1854 (with 1906 addition) house. 
The contractor wanted to pull down all the plaster/lath so his electrician 
could rewire existing rooms.  Hell NO! As a compromise, he wired all the new 
stuff and I replaced the existing knob and tube (plus a lot of old or 
undersize Romex) with new Romex.  Adding outlets, etc. in plaster/lath was a 
pain so I only added two outlets to each upstairs bedroom; those rooms are 
seldom used.  If you haven't done it, there is a huge pile of cement chunks 
inside those old walls from the initial scratch coat over the lath.  My 
builder/electrician installed a new breaker panel so I just left long Romex 
ends for him to connect to the new CB box when he got to that point in the 
job.
 There have been numerous recent changes (like AFCI breakers) in the new 
code so best review a recent book before any DIY work.
 I also added a standby generator; while rewiring was the best time to 
do that.  My generator transfer switch feeds a 100 amp subpanel for 
important loads.

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Donald
> ...
> Has anyone had a whole house rewired?   That's the project I am most 
> anxious
> about.
>
> Don Snook
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

 I did a major upgrade/addition to my 1854 (with 1906 addition) house. The 
contractor wanted to pull down all the plaster/lath so his electrician could 
rewire existing rooms.  Hell NO! As a compromise, he wired all the new stuff 
and I replaced the existing knob and tube (plus a lot of old or undersize 
Romex) with new Romex.  Adding outlets, etc. in plaster/lath was a pain so I 
only added two outlets to each upstairs bedroom; those rooms are seldom used.  
If you haven't done it, there is a huge pile of cement chunks inside those old 
walls from the initial scratch coat over the lath.  My builder/electrician 
installed a new breaker panel so I just left long Romex ends for him to connect 
to the new CB box when he got to that point in the job.
 There have been numerous recent changes (like AFCI breakers) in the new 
code so best review a recent book before any DIY work.
 I also added a standby generator; while rewiring was the best time to do 
that.  My generator transfer switch feeds a 100 amp subpanel for important 
loads.

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Donald
> ...
> Has anyone had a whole house rewired?   That's the project I am most anxious
> about.
> 
> Don Snook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Have you sold your old house?


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Donald Snook via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-11-15  9:02 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com> 
Subject: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase 
I remember a while back, Kaleb posted a link to an old house for a possible 
flip.  I am moving 60 miles to a new town and have decided to purchase an old 
home that needs rehab.  A client of mine is a developer and one his employees 
purchased a house a few months ago for a flip.  They had some personal 
relationship problems and now have to get rid of the house.  The style is 
called an American FourSquare.  They bought the house and replaced some 
windows, did some minor repairs, redid a bathroom, and did paint work.  They 
also demoed the kitchen down to the studs.   I am getting it for less than they 
bought it.   But, it will need to have the entire house re-wired as it still 
has knob and tube throughout.  We will need to add a bathroom (in a laundry 
room where there is already plumbing), drywall the kitchen, add cabinets, 
countertops, etc, and replace two exterior doors.   They were living in the 
house (the bathroom is functional and just needs finish work.  They were 
cooking in a microwave.  It should be a very interesting project!

Don Snook
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:56:57 -0700 Craig via Mercedes
 wrote:

> One excellent resource is
> http://thecraftsmanblog.com/living-in-the-past/

And of course you need a plan!

http://thecraftsmanblog.com/building-restoration-plan/



Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

That is pretty pessimistic.
I do think that if one plans to do much of the work, then one needs to 
enjoy doing that sort of thing.
We moved into a new house in 1981 and have been remodelling it ever 
since. We wanted a house that looked old but were concerned about the 
troubles that might be encountered in an old house.
In retrospect, an old house would have been fine - maybe even better 
than a new house.


RB

On 15/11/2017 11:49 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

I have considerable experience in such "projects" so I feel the need to
offer "free advise" worth every penny it costs you.. [to date, I've
done 48 houses from like status, so BTDT, in spades]

1. Do not live in the house while rebuilding it.

2. Do not live in the house with a spouse while rebuilding it.

3. If you like the design of the house, take careful drawings of the
footprint of the house, then call in a demo company that has big equipment
[like a track hoe with a thumb bucket and semi size dump truck] and hire
them to demolish the house down to bare dirt. The entire house should be
gone in one to two days and the new building pad prepared.

4. Hire an architect to make building plans for the new house you will be
building on the property.  Hire a competent and well vetted contractor  to
build that house all the way to finish and paint.

5. Move into the new house and enjoy it, knowing you can insure it for
market value of a new house, sell it as a modern house in 5 yrs or when
ever you wish, having improved the market value. If needed, get a bank
loan, because it will be "built to code" that is "completely up to date".
Also, the new buyer will get qualified more quickly because the house will
be "bankable property".

6. Rebuilding an old house is an endless set of compromises that become an
empty pit to throw money into in the end accounting... cheaper and much
quicker to demo the old one, start fresh...

YMMV of course,
Grant...

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I have to admit that I am somewhat envious.  I did this on our first
house, and while it was a major undertaking, life was far more demanding at
the time which compounded the process.  Now that my kids are adults and
I’ve got a lot more time on my hands it would be far more enjoyable and
much less stressful.

Sounds like the major issues have been dealt with, so now you just have to
deal with finishing out the shell.

Have fun!

-D



On Nov 15, 2017, at 12:06 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

The things I like most are that I am buying it for $40,000 less than the

County Appraisal.  AND my payments will be less than half of my current
mortgage. AND living in a ranch house for the last seven years, this will
feel so much more open and have so much more light coming in!

Don Snook






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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:53:10 -0700 Craig via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Another good website is:
> 
> http://thecraftsmanblog.com/american-foursquare-style/
> 
> This site has lots of information about tools and ways of remodeling.

One excellent resource is http://thecraftsmanblog.com/living-in-the-past/


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:35:57 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> http://mcmansionhell.com/post/166916762911/looking-around-american-foursquares
> 
> Cool houses.

Also,

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/American_foursquare-sears-52.gif

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/architecture-and-design/american-foursquare-1890-1930.shtml

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I have considerable experience in such "projects" so I feel the need to
offer "free advise" worth every penny it costs you.. [to date, I've
done 48 houses from like status, so BTDT, in spades]

1. Do not live in the house while rebuilding it.

2. Do not live in the house with a spouse while rebuilding it.

3. If you like the design of the house, take careful drawings of the
footprint of the house, then call in a demo company that has big equipment
[like a track hoe with a thumb bucket and semi size dump truck] and hire
them to demolish the house down to bare dirt. The entire house should be
gone in one to two days and the new building pad prepared.

4. Hire an architect to make building plans for the new house you will be
building on the property.  Hire a competent and well vetted contractor  to
build that house all the way to finish and paint.

5. Move into the new house and enjoy it, knowing you can insure it for
market value of a new house, sell it as a modern house in 5 yrs or when
ever you wish, having improved the market value. If needed, get a bank
loan, because it will be "built to code" that is "completely up to date".
Also, the new buyer will get qualified more quickly because the house will
be "bankable property".

6. Rebuilding an old house is an endless set of compromises that become an
empty pit to throw money into in the end accounting... cheaper and much
quicker to demo the old one, start fresh...

YMMV of course,
Grant...

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have to admit that I am somewhat envious.  I did this on our first
> house, and while it was a major undertaking, life was far more demanding at
> the time which compounded the process.  Now that my kids are adults and
> I’ve got a lot more time on my hands it would be far more enjoyable and
> much less stressful.
>
> Sounds like the major issues have been dealt with, so now you just have to
> deal with finishing out the shell.
>
> Have fun!
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Nov 15, 2017, at 12:06 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > The things I like most are that I am buying it for $40,000 less than the
> County Appraisal.  AND my payments will be less than half of my current
> mortgage. AND living in a ranch house for the last seven years, this will
> feel so much more open and have so much more light coming in!
> >
> > Don Snook
> >
>
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:36:18 -0700 Craig via Mercedes
 wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:35:57 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> > http://mcmansionhell.com/post/166916762911/looking-around-american-foursquares
> > 
> > Cool houses.
> 
> Also,
> 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/American_foursquare-sears-52.gif
> 
> http://www.oldhouseweb.com/architecture-and-design/american-foursquare-1890-1930.shtml

Another good website is:

http://thecraftsmanblog.com/american-foursquare-style/

This site has lots of information about tools and ways of remodeling.


http://realtormag.realtor.org/home-and-design/architecture-coach/article/2004/07/american-foursquare
describes how to sell a client on purchasing a Foursquare house.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On November 15, 2017 at 12:15 PM Craig via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Add extra, properly breakered outlets and switches BEFORE you drywall the
> kitchen! A kitchen planner does help.

Wiring the gutted rooms before finishing them is the easy part, as long as you 
remember to get it done. 
Wiring the lath and plaster rooms will take some planning. Consult a few pros, 
and maybe find a pro forum, like an electricians' version of HVAC-Talk.com, and 
consult the forum's collective knowledge for ideas on how best to proceed. 
You might end up with external wiring under decorative conduit, but I hope 
there is some reasonable way to run the wires inside the walls. 

I'd just have them run new service from scratch. Keep using the existing wiring 
until it's done, then move the utility feed over to the new breaker box. Don't 
even waste time/money tearing the old wiring out. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I have to admit that I am somewhat envious.  I did this on our first house, and 
while it was a major undertaking, life was far more demanding at the time which 
compounded the process.  Now that my kids are adults and I’ve got a lot more 
time on my hands it would be far more enjoyable and much less stressful.

Sounds like the major issues have been dealt with, so now you just have to deal 
with finishing out the shell.

Have fun!

-D


> On Nov 15, 2017, at 12:06 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The things I like most are that I am buying it for $40,000 less than the 
> County Appraisal.  AND my payments will be less than half of my current 
> mortgage. AND living in a ranch house for the last seven years, this will 
> feel so much more open and have so much more light coming in!
> 
> Don Snook
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:07:06 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> > On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > But, it will need to have the entire house re-wired as it still has
> > knob and tube throughout. We will need to add a bathroom (in a
> > laundry room where there is already plumbing), drywall the kitchen,
> > add cabinets, countertops, etc, and replace two exterior doors. They
> > were living in the house (the bathroom is functional and just needs
> > finish work.  They were cooking in a microwave. It should be a very
> > interesting project!
>
> Have fun

Yes, indeed! And don't forget others on the list have done things
somewhat similar.

Add extra, properly breakered outlets and switches BEFORE you drywall the
kitchen! A kitchen planner does help.



Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

The things I like most are that I am buying it for $40,000 less than the County 
Appraisal.  AND my payments will be less than half of my current mortgage. AND 
living in a ranch house for the last seven years, this will feel so much more 
open and have so much more light coming in!

Don Snook

From: Andrew Strasfogel [mailto:astrasfo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:00 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net>; Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

My ex partner (interior designer) had a real love for four squares.  I thought 
I would die of boredom within the first 6 months after moving in due to their 
excessive symmetry.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
Kaleb wrote:

"Have fun"

It should be fun AND frustrating and long and difficult and exciting.  The 
sellers did make some immediate repairs when they bought it such as replacing 
several windows some of the wood floors have been refinished.  There was a 
minor leak in the roof and they addressed it already.  As part of that repair 
some of the lath and plaster in the dining room will have to be repaired.  But, 
the problems that HAD to be addressed immediately were done.  They were living 
there for the last few months. So, we know we can live there while we go 
through the process.  I still have my house in Wichita so we don't have to move 
into this one until it sells -- although the sooner we move, the sooner I can 
stop commuting 120 miles a day.

Has anyone had a whole house rewired?   That's the project I am most anxious 
about.

Don Snook







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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

My ex partner (interior designer) had a real love for four squares.  I
thought I would die of boredom within the first 6 months after moving in
due to their excessive symmetry.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Kaleb wrote:
>
> "Have fun"
>
> It should be fun AND frustrating and long and difficult and exciting.  The
> sellers did make some immediate repairs when they bought it such as
> replacing several windows some of the wood floors have been refinished.
> There was a minor leak in the roof and they addressed it already.  As part
> of that repair some of the lath and plaster in the dining room will have to
> be repaired.  But, the problems that HAD to be addressed immediately were
> done.  They were living there for the last few months. So, we know we can
> live there while we go through the process.  I still have my house in
> Wichita so we don't have to move into this one until it sells -- although
> the sooner we move, the sooner I can stop commuting 120 miles a day.
>
> Has anyone had a whole house rewired?   That's the project I am most
> anxious about.
>
> Don Snook
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Kaleb wrote: 

"Have fun" 

It should be fun AND frustrating and long and difficult and exciting.  The 
sellers did make some immediate repairs when they bought it such as replacing 
several windows some of the wood floors have been refinished.  There was a 
minor leak in the roof and they addressed it already.  As part of that repair 
some of the lath and plaster in the dining room will have to be repaired.  But, 
the problems that HAD to be addressed immediately were done.  They were living 
there for the last few months. So, we know we can live there while we go 
through the process.  I still have my house in Wichita so we don't have to move 
into this one until it sells -- although the sooner we move, the sooner I can 
stop commuting 120 miles a day. 

Has anyone had a whole house rewired?   That's the project I am most anxious 
about. 

Don Snook 







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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Dan wrote: 

"http://mcmansionhell.com/post/166916762911/looking-around-american-foursquares

Cool houses." 

That is almost exactly the floorplan of mine.  The one exception is that 
someone in the past turned it into a 3 bedroom.  The master bedroom is much 
larger now.  

Don Snook 




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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

+1

I was thinking much the same...

-D


> On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 1. Are you high?
> ‎2. Contracting the work out (mostly)?
> 3. ‎Are you doing the work yourself? 
> 
> If ‎number one, get into rehab (not a rehab house) quick!
> 
> If number two, get a premium membership from Angie's List. Make friends at 
> the local hardware store/lumber yard to find the best contractors, not the 
> cheapest. ‎Being a general contractor is a job. I am sure you are up to the 
> task, but you may be hard pressed to find time in your day to get things 
> done. 
> 
> If number three, God help you. You are taking on another full time job. Full. 
> Time. Job. If you are going to attempt to live in the house while it is being 
> rehabbed, forget it. It will never be done. 
> 
> Involve your son, and step daughter (and wife) as much as possible. Yes, it 
> will double or triple the time  ‎to complete anything. Oh well. The family 
> that works together, stays together. It will be a learning experience for 
> everyone, and great family time. I can see Henry and you painting each other, 
> whilst painting the walls. Memories to last a lifetime. 
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Rick
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

1. Are you high?
‎2. Contracting the work out (mostly)?
3. ‎Are you doing the work yourself? 

If ‎number one, get into rehab (not a rehab house) quick!

If number two, get a premium membership from Angie's List. Make friends at the 
local hardware store/lumber yard to find the best contractors, not the 
cheapest. ‎Being a general contractor is a job. I am sure you are up to the 
task, but you may be hard pressed to find time in your day to get things done. 

If number three, God help you. You are taking on another full time job. Full. 
Time. Job. If you are going to attempt to live in the house while it is being 
rehabbed, forget it. It will never be done. 

Involve your son, and step daughter (and wife) as much as possible. Yes, it 
will double or triple the time  ‎to complete anything. Oh well. The family that 
works together, stays together. It will be a learning experience for everyone, 
and great family time. I can see Henry and you painting each other, whilst 
painting the walls. Memories to last a lifetime. 

Good luck,

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Prophetic words:

>  “They had some personal relationship problems and now have to get rid of the 
> house. “

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:05 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Good luck. 
> Just know that I did more to my project house in the three months before I 
> moved in than I did in the five years after I moved in. 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Good luck. 
Just know that I did more to my project house in the three months before I 
moved in than I did in the five years after I moved in. 
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Watch the movie "Money Pit". Been there.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> http://mcmansionhell.com/post/166916762911/looking-around-
> american-foursquares
>
> Cool houses.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:02 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I remember a while back, Kaleb posted a link to an old house for a
> possible flip.  I am moving 60 miles to a new town and have decided to
> purchase an old home that needs rehab.  A client of mine is a developer and
> one his employees purchased a house a few months ago for a flip.  They had
> some personal relationship problems and now have to get rid of the house.
> The style is called an American FourSquare.  They bought the house and
> replaced some windows, did some minor repairs, redid a bathroom, and did
> paint work.  They also demoed the kitchen down to the studs.   I am getting
> it for less than they bought it.   But, it will need to have the entire
> house re-wired as it still has knob and tube throughout.  We will need to
> add a bathroom (in a laundry room where there is already plumbing), drywall
> the kitchen, add cabinets, countertops, etc, and replace two exterior
> doors.   They were living in the house (the bathroom is functional and just
> needs finish work.  They were cooking in a microwave.  It should be a very
> interesting project!
> >
> > Don Snook
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

http://mcmansionhell.com/post/166916762911/looking-around-american-foursquares

Cool houses.

-D


> On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:02 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I remember a while back, Kaleb posted a link to an old house for a possible 
> flip.  I am moving 60 miles to a new town and have decided to purchase an old 
> home that needs rehab.  A client of mine is a developer and one his employees 
> purchased a house a few months ago for a flip.  They had some personal 
> relationship problems and now have to get rid of the house.  The style is 
> called an American FourSquare.  They bought the house and replaced some 
> windows, did some minor repairs, redid a bathroom, and did paint work.  They 
> also demoed the kitchen down to the studs.   I am getting it for less than 
> they bought it.   But, it will need to have the entire house re-wired as it 
> still has knob and tube throughout.  We will need to add a bathroom (in a 
> laundry room where there is already plumbing), drywall the kitchen, add 
> cabinets, countertops, etc, and replace two exterior doors.   They were 
> living in the house (the bathroom is functional and just needs finish work.  
> They were cooking in a microwave.  It should be a very interesting project!
> 
> Don Snook
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Have fun

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I remember a while back, Kaleb posted a link to an old house for a possible 
> flip.  I am moving 60 miles to a new town and have decided to purchase an old 
> home that needs rehab.  A client of mine is a developer and one his employees 
> purchased a house a few months ago for a flip.  They had some personal 
> relationship problems and now have to get rid of the house.  The style is 
> called an American FourSquare.  They bought the house and replaced some 
> windows, did some minor repairs, redid a bathroom, and did paint work.  They 
> also demoed the kitchen down to the studs.   I am getting it for less than 
> they bought it.   But, it will need to have the entire house re-wired as it 
> still has knob and tube throughout.  We will need to add a bathroom (in a 
> laundry room where there is already plumbing), drywall the kitchen, add 
> cabinets, countertops, etc, and replace two exterior doors.   They were 
> living in the house (the bathroom is functional and just needs finish work.  
> They were cooking in a microwave.  It should be a very interesting project!
> 
> Don Snook
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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[MBZ] OT: New/Old Home Purchase

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

I remember a while back, Kaleb posted a link to an old house for a possible 
flip.  I am moving 60 miles to a new town and have decided to purchase an old 
home that needs rehab.  A client of mine is a developer and one his employees 
purchased a house a few months ago for a flip.  They had some personal 
relationship problems and now have to get rid of the house.  The style is 
called an American FourSquare.  They bought the house and replaced some 
windows, did some minor repairs, redid a bathroom, and did paint work.  They 
also demoed the kitchen down to the studs.   I am getting it for less than they 
bought it.   But, it will need to have the entire house re-wired as it still 
has knob and tube throughout.  We will need to add a bathroom (in a laundry 
room where there is already plumbing), drywall the kitchen, add cabinets, 
countertops, etc, and replace two exterior doors.   They were living in the 
house (the bathroom is functional and just needs finish work.  They were 
cooking in a microwave.  It should be a very interesting project!

Don Snook
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