x-ns-css

[Harriet Bazley]

Looking at the Inventory for a full save reveals what appears to be an
unlinked entry that takes the form x-ns-css instead of a URL, e.g.

0x7c95fe00 http://www.wdc-cnd.org.uk/Newsletter/GRAPHICS/CND.JPG
0x7c8ad6c0 x-ns-css:99


Is this a debugging thing?  It seems to create a stylesheet that isn't
actually used when reloading the saved page.

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

No man has a right to live - but every man has a duty to save him if he can

Re: shortcut "font" in CSS

[John-Mark Bell]

On 22/06/2019 19:09, Jim Nagel wrote:

Does the shortcut version of the "font" property in CSS work properly in
Netsurf?


Yes, it does. You can find extensive test data at [1].


This CSS gives me the display I want:
  font-family: serif;
  font-style: italic;
  font-weight: bold;
  font-size: 24pt;

This single CSS expression is supposed to be equivalent, but Netsurf
ignores it:
  font: serif italic bold 24pt;

Or am I failing to understand the spec?


I'm afraid so. The spec[2,3] says that (assuming none of the 
single-token values are specified -- e.g. caption or inherit):


* font-style, font-variant, font-weight appear first (in any order), if
  required
* font-size comes next (and is always required)
* an optional line-height may be specified next
* font-family appears last

So, given the long-hand you have specified above, you want something like:

  font: bold italic 24pt serif;


J.

1. https://git.netsurf-browser.org/libcss.git/tree/test/data/parse2/font.dat
2. https://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#font-shorthand
3. https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-3/#font-prop

shortcut "font" in CSS

[Jim Nagel]

Does the shortcut version of the "font" property in CSS work properly in 
Netsurf?

This CSS gives me the display I want:
 font-family: serif;
 font-style: italic;
 font-weight: bold;
 font-size: 24pt;

This single CSS expression is supposed to be equivalent, but Netsurf 
ignores it:
 font: serif italic bold 24pt;

Or am I failing to understand the spec?

Using #4682 and many previous builds.

-- 
Jim Nagelwww.archivemag.co.uk

Re: CSS support for display:table

[Michael Drake]

On 15/02/18 16:00, Jim Nagel wrote:


That seems to mean Mozilla and Webkit.  Is there perhaps an equivalent
for NetSurf?


No, we have no plans to implement draft specifications under
a vendor prefix.

We don't have enough developer bandwidth to implement all the
stuff that is currently standard, never mind trying to keep up
with volatile draft standards.

Cheers,

--
Michael Drake  http://www.codethink.co.uk/

Re: CSS support for display:table

[Jim Nagel]

Thanks for such a swift reply, Michael.  Will digest and report back.

You said:
> The min-content value for width is just at editors draft stage.
> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-sizing-3/
> So it's subject to change, and not standardized yet.

In the final para of my post, I didn't quote all the code I found in 
that Stackoverflow suggestion about   width:min-content   (which was 
dated 2015). The writer included interim lines addressed to specific 
browsers while the aforementioned editors' deliberations continue.  He 
suggested:
 figure {
   width: -webkit-min-content;
   width: -moz-min-content;
   width: min-content;
 }
That seems to mean Mozilla and Webkit.  Is there perhaps an equivalent 
for Netsurf?


-- 
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the show?   www.riscos-swshow.co.uk   Feb 24

Re: CSS support for display:table

[Michael Drake]

On 15/02/18 12:17, Jim Nagel wrote:

I'm wondering if Netsurf CSS supports these commands (if that's the
correct term)
   display:table   or   width:min-content


Supported: display:table
Unsupported: width:min-content

The min-content value for width is just at editors draft stage.

https://drafts.csswg.org/css-sizing-3/

So it's subject to change, and not standardized yet.  As the
mozilla documentation says, it shouldn't be used in production
code.


The third idea uses  table:caption; caption-side:bottom;  -- again,
does Netsurf support it?  In my attempts the caption lands at the
right of the picture, not beneath it. (See "tablecaption-X.html".)


NetSurf doesn't support table captions.

As for how I'd do it, I think there would be more mileage in
constraining the outer figure element with image dimensions,
rather than the image.

Something like (untested, and requiring polish):

figure {
display: block;
width: 33%;
max-width: 400px;
min-width: 100px;
}

figure.left {
float: left;
}

figure.right {
float: right;
}

figure > img {
display: block;
width: 100%;
}

figure > figcaption {
display: block;
width: 100%;
}

Then you'd have e.g.



Lots of text...


--
Michael Drake  http://www.codethink.co.uk/

CSS support for display:table

[Jim Nagel]

I'm wondering if Netsurf CSS supports these commands (if that's the 
correct term)
  display:table   or   width:min-content

Netsurf's online documentation for development progress says the CSS 
"display" category is complete, but I can't seem to get this 
particular display function to perform.

What I'm struggling to achieve is to use the  and  
tags to produce a caption under a photo.  This works fine as long as 
the caption is a single line.  But if the caption text is longer, 
you'd think it would simply flow to a new line under the picture but, 
no, it fills the width of the whole page before it breaks to a new 
line.

See examples: http://archivemag.co.uk/TEMP/Netsurf-figure/ .  The main 
part of the page is a tutorial (from my son); my attempts are added at 
the bottom.
 * The page "works-but-uses-BR.html" nearly shows the result I want -- 
picture and caption at the right of main story, which starts at top of 
page alongside the picture.  But take out my bodged  tags and see 
what happens.
 * The "tablecaption-X.html" page fails (see (3) below).

Multi-line captions are so common (look at any magazine or newspaper) 
that I'm surprised that CSS doesn't have a simple built-in standard 
for them.

Obviously whatever approach I settle on, I want it to suit Netsurf as 
well as mainstream browsers.

The idea for using display:table came from an online search:
(1) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6534473/how-can-i-make-the-wid 
th-of-my-figcaption-match-the-width-of-the-img-inside
(2) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10264463/can-a-figcaption-be-r 
estricted-to-the-width-of-a-responsively-sized-image

The third idea uses  table:caption; caption-side:bottom;  -- again, 
does Netsurf support it?  In my attempts the caption lands at the 
right of the picture, not beneath it. (See "tablecaption-X.html".)
(3) https://www.sitepoint.com/community/t/how-to-force-this-figcaption 
-element-to-respect-its-parents-width-boundaries/30025
(Unforch this link stymies Netsurf but try e.g. Firefox or Android.)

A promising idea in (1) is   width:min-content   -- a value for width 
used in the reply at  https://stackoverflow.com/a/28341085/496046  
that is apparently new, according to documentation at 
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/width#min-content -- 
does Netsurf support this?


-- 
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the show?   www.riscos-swshow.co.uk   Feb 24

Re: CSS for a RiscOS font and button

[Tim Hill]

In article <ccf2bbaf-2c2c-4b4a-cc6e-8010dc68a...@codethink.co.uk>,
   Michael Drake <michael.dr...@codethink.co.uk> wrote:


> On 09/02/18 14:56, Jim Nagel wrote:

> > In CSS, is it possible to specify a particular RiscOS font?

> No, NetSurf only supports the generic font families.

This is a great tool for helping choose which generic font family.
https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/playit.asp?filename=playcss_font-family 
but not in NetSurf for presumably Javascript reasons.

-- 

Tim Hill

timil.com : tjrh.eu : butterwick.eu : blue-bike.uk : youngtheatre.co.uk

Re: CSS for a RiscOS font and button

[Michael Drake]

On 09/02/18 14:56, Jim Nagel wrote:


In CSS, is it possible to specify a particular RiscOS font?


No, NetSurf only supports the generic font families.


In CSS, how would I define a button to look like a familiar RiscOS
action button?


Input type image is probably your best bet, but it won't match
desktop button style if users have customised the RISC OS button
rendering in any way.

--
Michael Drake  http://www.codethink.co.uk/

CSS for a RiscOS font and button

[Jim Nagel]

   === 1 ===
In CSS, is it possible to specify a particular RiscOS font?
For example, Oxford.Bold.Italic -- what would the CSS syntax be? 
Presumably those dots in the Ro filepath would change -- to what?

Viewers of the page in question will be mostly RiscOS users, but the 
font declaration should degrade gracefully for people who don't have 
that font or for anybody happening to view the page on other platforms 
where the font might be called Optima or just generic sans-serif.

I know it's general good practice to stick to "standard" fonts, but 
out of curio city, I'm wondering how to specify this partic font.

   === 2 ===
In CSS, how would I define a button to look like a familiar RiscOS 
action button?  I mean like the one at the bottom of a Save dialogue, 
with a yellow moat around a grey slab.

I want to use it for "Submit" at the bottom of an HTML form.  (I am 
adapting a page where a grey panel further up is actually a menu 
though it shows only the default option -- the appearance of the 
current Submit button close by is too similar.)

Thanks.

-- 
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the show?   www.riscos-swshow.co.uk   Feb 24

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Nick Roberts]

In message <5ea82c6b-73ca-6728-a118-e7111d094...@codethink.co.uk>
   Michael Drake  wrote:

> 
> On 28/04/17 11:18, Michael Drake wrote:
> >
> > We could change it not to save the hotlist on exit when
> > an external hotlist manager is used, since that would
> > be a simple change.
> 
> Done.

You are a star 8-)

I'll get to tweaking BookMaker so it no longer blocks save if NetSurf
is running.


-- 
Nick Roberts   tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk   

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 28/04/17 11:18, Michael Drake wrote:


We could change it not to save the hotlist on exit when
an external hotlist manager is used, since that would
be a simple change.


Done.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 28/04/17 10:51, Michael Drake wrote:


In any case, I can make it more robust by consulting the
external hotlist option before removing from the hotlist.


Actually it already does that, so NetSurf shouldn't be saving
the hotlist when the hotlist is edited, when configured to
use an external hotlist manager, however, it will still
save the hotlist on exit.

We could change it not to save the hotlist on exit when
an external hotlist manager is used, since that would
be a simple change.

Adding support for querying the external hotlist about
whether it has a URL and removing URLs from external
requires more work, and would need a RISC OS developer.

If there are any developers interested in working on the
RISC OS front end, they would be most welcome.  None of
NetSurf's core developers use RISC OS, so we have trouble
maintaining and supporting it.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 27/04/17 18:03, Michael Drake wrote:


On 26/04/17 18:30, Nick Roberts wrote:


Can you just confirm that NetSurf doesn't save the file if there is an
external hotlist manager?


I don't know, off the top of my head.  I'm unfamiliar with the
external hotlist option.  If I have time tomorrow I could have
a look at the code.


As far as I can tell there are three differences in behavior when
the RISC OS front end's external hotlist option is enabled:

1. Opening the hotlist will Filer_Run the external application,
   rather than opening the NetSurf hotlist manager window.

2. The hotlist_has_url test always returns false for external
   hotlists.  (Meaning the star in the URL bar will always be
   an empty outline, rather than filled yellow, even when the
   current page is in the external hotlist.)

3. When adding pages to the hotlist, NetSurf's core hotlist code
   isn't informed.  This means that the NetSurf won't save the
   file when adding URLs.

So NetSurf won't save the hotlist file when adding pages, and
set to use an external hotlist manager.

It looks like the RISC OS front end code for removing pages
from the hotlist first checks whether the core hotlist has
the page, and if it does, it instructs the NetSurf core
hotlist to remove it, rather than the external application.

The remove from hotlist handling has no code to tell an
external hotlist to remove pages.

This means that if this code is called, and the the core
hotlist had the URL, it will remove it, which will cause
NetSurf to save the hotlist file.

I can't remember exactly how the RISC OS UI presents the
interface for removing pages from the hotlist.  It might have
been select clicking on a filled URL bar star, or adjust
clicking on a URL bar star, or something else.  If the former,
then because of point 2 above, it would not let the remove
page code get called in the first place, so the file wouldn't
get saved.

In any case, I can make it more robust by consulting the
external hotlist option before removing from the hotlist.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 26/04/17 18:30, Nick Roberts wrote:


Can you just confirm that NetSurf doesn't save the file if there is an
external hotlist manager?


I don't know, off the top of my head.  I'm unfamiliar with the
external hotlist option.  If I have time tomorrow I could have
a look at the code.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Nick Roberts]

In message <496fe1b4-8a09-4243-e65a-50b1381b7...@codethink.co.uk>
   Michael Drake  wrote:

> On 23/11/16 09:58, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
> >   Jim Nagel  wrote:
> >
> > > Does NetSurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits
> > > the program?
> > > 
> > No, it doesn't.
> 
> As of CI build #4070, the hotlist file is saved shortly after URLs
> are added / removed.

Can you just confirm that Netsurf doesn't save the file if there is an
external hotlist manager? I've just had a play with build #4070 and
this seems to be the case, but confirmation would be nice.

If so, I can fix BookMaker to allow saves even if Netsurf is running.

-- 
Nick Roberts   tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk   

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Richard Torrens (lists)]

In article <496fe1b4-8a09-4243-e65a-50b1381b7...@codethink.co.uk>,
   Michael Drake  wrote:
> On 23/11/16 09:58, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
> >   Jim Nagel  wrote:
> >
> >> Does NetSurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
> >> program?
> >>
> > No, it doesn't.

> As of CI build #4070, the hotlist file is saved shortly after URLs are
> added / removed.

> Cheers,

Excellent! A long-awaited chamnge. Thanks for the contiunuing good work.

-- 
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 23/11/16 09:58, Harriet Bazley wrote:

On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
  Jim Nagel  wrote:


Does NetSurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
program?


No, it doesn't.


As of CI build #4070, the hotlist file is saved shortly after URLs are
added / removed.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Chris Young]

On 25 November 2016 09:57:04 GMT+00:00, Jim Nagel  
wrote:

>I'll put in a formal feature suggestion (via Sourceforge?) 

http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org

Chris

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Jim Nagel]

Harriet Bazley  wrote on 24 Nov:

>> [Jim wrote:] The hotlist is saved in Choices:WWW.Netsurf
>> But where is the history saved?

> Choices:WWW.Netsurf.URL I think.

Ahh, yes.  That filename wasn't obvious till hindsight.

And now that I look at the directory with Full Info and date order, 
behold the three files Hotlist, URL and Cookies at the top of the 
list, stamped with the exact time I shut down last night.

I'll put in a formal feature suggestion (via Sourceforge?) that 
additions to Hotlist ought to save themselves immediately (or the user 
being given a chance to save them manually, at least).

I can't be the only Netsurf user who has ever lost stuff like this 
because of the machine losing power or freezing, and Netsurf not 
having the chance to quit correctly.

-- 
Jim Nagelwww.archivemag.co.uk

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Harriet Bazley]

On 24 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
  Jim Nagel  wrote:

[snip]


> The hotlist is saved in Choices:WWW.Netsurf
> But where is the history saved?
>

Choices:WWW.Netsurf.URL I think.


-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

Flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground... and missing.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Jim Nagel]

Harriet Bazley  wrote on 23 Nov:

> On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
>   Jim Nagel  wrote:

>> Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
>> program?
>>
> No, it doesn't.
> An attempt to avoid constant unpredictable disc accesses, I assume,
> and it's not a problem until the program crashes, but it would be nice
> at least if editing the hotlist physically updated the relevant file -
> it's not something that happens all that often, unlike opening new
> pages, and unlike in other programs there's no way to 'save your work'
> manually.
>It's a bit counter-intuitive that the only way to ensure that
> changes to the program data are preserved is to quit the program
> immediately after making them!

Amen to that!  Counterintuitive indeed.

The hotlist is saved in Choices:WWW.Netsurf
But where is the history saved?


-- 
Jim Nagelwww.archivemag.co.uk
   Abbey Press   32 Norbins Rd(01458) 83 3603
   Glastonbury   BA6 9JG pocket 0797 415 3861
>> before emailing large files (>1Mb), please ask me for FTP details

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Nick Roberts]

In message <8c1f76e355.harr...@blueyonder.co.uk>
   Harriet Bazley  wrote:

> On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
>   Jim Nagel  wrote:
> 
> > Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits
> > the program?
> >
> No, it doesn't.
> An attempt to avoid constant unpredictable disc accesses, I assume,
> and it's not a problem until the program crashes, but it would be
> nice at least if editing the hotlist physically updated the relevant
> file - it's not something that happens all that often, unlike opening
> new pages, and unlike in other programs there's no way to 'save your
> work' manually.   It's a bit counter-intuitive that the only way to
> ensure that changes to the program data are preserved is to quit the
> program immediately after making them!

This is a particular problem for BookMaker.

If the user adds any pages to the hotlist, BookMaker registers that the
hotlist has changed, and the "Save" button on the toolbar becomes
active. But if you save the hotlilst and then quit Netsurf, Netsurf
very kindly overwrites the version you've saved from BookMaker with its
own internal copy. This got so frustrating that now BookMaker won't let
you save a Netsurf hotlist if Netsurf is still running.

This does have one advantage - if/when Netsurf crashes, you can then
save the (updated) hotlist from BookMaker.

Eventually, I plan to add a patch to Netsurf, so that it checks on exit
for the use of a foreign hotlist manager, and avoid saving the hotlist
if one is in use. It's a bit daunting, as I'm going to have to start
from building a GCC environment on a virtual machine.

-- 
Nick Roberts   tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk   

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[John Rickman Iyonix]

 In article <c77953e355@abbeypress.net>, Jim Nagel
 <nets...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> Last night I was looking for tips on how to use CSS for something on
> my website

Jim - you might find the links in the middle column on this page 
useful:-

http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx/lynxweb.html

John

-- 
John Rickman 

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Harriet Bazley]

On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
  Jim Nagel  wrote:

> Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
> program?
>
No, it doesn't.
An attempt to avoid constant unpredictable disc accesses, I assume, and it's
not a problem until the program crashes, but it would be nice at least if
editing the hotlist physically updated the relevant file - it's not
something that happens all that often, unlike opening new pages, and unlike
in other programs there's no way to 'save your work' manually.   It's a bit
counter-intuitive that the only way to ensure that changes to the program
data are preserved is to quit the program immediately after making them!

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

Confession is good for the soul, but bad for the career.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Tim Hill]

In article <c77953e355@abbeypress.net>, Jim Nagel
<nets...@abbeypress.co.uk> wrote:
> Last night I was looking for tips on how to use CSS for something on
> my website

[snip]

On balance, I find
www.w3schools.com 
better than HTML.com
YMMV

-- 
Tim Hill
www.timil.com

web sites * multimedia * training

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[John Williams]

In article ,
   Jim Nagel  wrote:

> Back to original Q about when Netsurf saves its hotlist.

On quitting, same as its cookies. So if you want to do different user
stuff, NetSurf has to be quitted before changing the Choices location.

I do this to access my wife's FaceBook and GMail - with her permission, of
course. on a machine I can do something sensible with the data on! Things
like save out pictures full size, print off tickets etcetera.

For simplicity I have separate complete Choices files and a change-user
script which checks if NS is running and stops to warn me if it is. 
Quitting NS automatically seemed a bit like overkill - it helps to remember
what's going on if you have to do it yourself!

John

-- 
| John Williams 
| joh...@ukgateway.net

 Names for Soul Band:- Soul Doubt *

history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Jim Nagel]

Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the 
program?

Last night I was looking for tips on how to use CSS for something on 
my website, came across a wonderful site and immediately added it to 
my Netsurf hotlist.  An hour later, some other application froze and 
the computer had to be rebooted.

Today I wanted to return to that site about CSS, but there was no 
record of it in my hotlist.  Nor in my history.  Tried all sorts of 
searches via Google and Duckduck -- no luck.  Bereft.

Is there any way to make Netsurf save history and hotlist during a 
session?  Or am I misunderstanding something?


As for the site I lost, maybe somebody else knows it and could point 
me in the right direction.
 - Exceptionally clean design.  The bits of code within sentences were 
presented with a grey background.
 - Fine use of language, not cutesy or nerdy or commercial.
 - It had a surprisingly nifty name, one syllable I think, almost in 
the league of web.com or code.com -- so simple it made me wonder that 
the writers found it still available.
 - Further surprise when I got to a deeper page: it was a UK company, 
despite the ".com" domain, located somewhere like Shoreditch or 
Marylebone.

Stop press:  Found it! It's  html.com

Back to original Q about when Netsurf saves its hotlist.

-- 
Jim Nagelwww.archivemag.co.uk

Re: CSS and "media query" -- smartphone vs desktop

[Tim Hill]

In article <20161025101401.gb2...@kyllikki.org>,
   Vincent Sanders <vi...@netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:47:45AM +0100, Jim Nagel wrote:
> > Any chance of Netsurf's CSS handling being extended a bit to support 
> > "media query"?

> It has been on our list of "important" things to do for some
> considerable time now. We know what needs to be done and how [1] but
> as usual development time is limited and noone has yet had time to
> work on the feature.

> > 
> > Reason I ask is that I want to rejig my various websites (including 
> > Archive's) so that (among other things) they will be readable on 
> > smartphone screens as well as desktop screens.

[Snip]

I find that this meta tag immediately fixes lots of issues without having
to come up with a new CSS file for each and every device.

 

The viewport meta tag doesn't fix everything but is a good interim
measure until you have time to do things 'properly'.

-- 
Tim Hill
www.timil.com

web sites * multimedia * training

Re: css

[Richard Torrens (lists)]

In article <fa4268d155.ga...@wra1th.plus.com>,
   Gavin Wraith <ga...@wra1th.plus.com> wrote:
> In message <55d122c0cdli...@torrens.org.uk>
>   "Richard Torrens (lists)" <li...@torrens.org.uk> wrote:

> >The latest Netsurf 3.6 (Dev CI #3739) appears to be ignoring css. Does
> >anyone else find this?

> I cannot say that I have noticed it. Can you give us a URL frinstance?

http://www.Torrens.org.uk/Sinclair/inside/

The first 3 links off that all contain

which should align all the images right amongst other css.

It did work fine and still does on Chrome - but there seems to be more
to it! I've just tried with earlier versions back to 3709 and none work. 

So I deleted Netsurf's cache - and it now works properly again! 

-- 
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

Re: css

[Gavin Wraith]

In message <55d122c0cdli...@torrens.org.uk>
  "Richard Torrens (lists)" <li...@torrens.org.uk> wrote:

>The latest Netsurf 3.6 (Dev CI #3739) appears to be ignoring css. Does
>anyone else find this?

I cannot say that I have noticed it. Can you give us a URL frinstance?
-- 
Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/

css

[Richard Torrens (lists)]

The latest Netsurf 3.6 (Dev CI #3739) appears to be ignoring css. Does
anyone else find this?

-- 
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org.uk for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

Re: CSS Base

[Peter Slegg]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 12:00:22 , netsurf-users-requ...@netsurf-browser.org wrote:
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 14:35:24 +0200
From: Ole Loots o...@monochrom.net
Subject: Re: CSS Base

Hello,

thanks for keeping an eye on the dev builds.

The latest build (2106) should be fixed.

For more information see the commit:

http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/commit/?id=d7f479070e6a198084f92e77c26b9bb0e8cab471

Greets,
Ole

3.3 Atari build 2107 is working perfectly :-)

Many thanks.

Peter

Re: CSS Base

[Ole Loots]

Hello,

thanks for keeping an eye on the dev builds.

The latest build (2106) should be fixed. 

For more information see the commit:

http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/commit/?id=d7f479070e6a198084f92e77c26b9bb0e8cab471

Greets,
Ole

Am Freitag, den 12.09.2014, 19:39 + schrieb Peter Slegg:
 I just tried the latest daily Atari build (2105)  but I am still getting the
 CSS Base error message.
 
 At that point the log file looks like this :
 
 
 (5.875000) content/content.c content_convert 283: content 
 file:///./hotlist.htm (0x1b1be0c)
 (5.875002) render/html_css.c html_css_quirks_stylesheets 503: 4 fetches active
 (5.875003) render/html.c html_convert 1028: quirks set to 2
 (5.875004) render/html.c html_convert 1032: 3 fetches active
 (5.88) atari/gui.c gui_poll 144: WM: 4944
 
 (5.955002) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
 file:///u%3A%5Cg%5CApplications%5Cnetsurf%5Cres%5Cdefault.css failed: 
 UnacceptableType
 (5.955003) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 2 fetches active
 (5.975000) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
 file:///user.css failed: UnacceptableType
 (5.975001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 1 fetches active
 (5.99) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
 file:///u%3A%5Cg%5CApplications%5Cnetsurf%5Cres%5Cquirks.css failed: 
 UnacceptableType
 (5.990001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 0 fetches active
 (5.990002) render/html.c html_begin_conversion 1085: Completing parse
 
 
 I don't know what to try that might help.
 The last working version I have is No. 1917
 
 Peter
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: CSS Base

[Peter Slegg]

I just tried the latest daily Atari build (2105)  but I am still getting the
CSS Base error message.

At that point the log file looks like this :


(5.875000) content/content.c content_convert 283: content file:///./hotlist.htm 
(0x1b1be0c)
(5.875002) render/html_css.c html_css_quirks_stylesheets 503: 4 fetches active
(5.875003) render/html.c html_convert 1028: quirks set to 2
(5.875004) render/html.c html_convert 1032: 3 fetches active
(5.88) atari/gui.c gui_poll 144: WM: 4944

(5.955002) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
file:///u%3A%5Cg%5CApplications%5Cnetsurf%5Cres%5Cdefault.css failed: 
UnacceptableType
(5.955003) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 2 fetches active
(5.975000) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
file:///user.css failed: UnacceptableType
(5.975001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 1 fetches active
(5.99) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
file:///u%3A%5Cg%5CApplications%5Cnetsurf%5Cres%5Cquirks.css failed: 
UnacceptableType
(5.990001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 0 fetches active
(5.990002) render/html.c html_begin_conversion 1085: Completing parse


I don't know what to try that might help.
The last working version I have is No. 1917

Peter

Re: CSS Base

[Ole]

Looks like it's failing to find its resources. Neither the default
style sheet or the Messages file have loaded. I don't know how the
Atari front end deals with loading them.

Nope. These files are loaded correctly, I had a look at the debug log. 
I suspect the Messages file isn't up to date. Peter, did you also update 
the Messages file?
 When you updated the Messages file, and still get the CSSBase error, 
the archived Messages file inside the atari autobuild is erroneous.
However, CSSBase stands for the well known error Base stylesheet 
failed to load.


I can see the following message in the log:

(13.530001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
file:///u%3A%5Cg%5CApplications%5Cnetsurf%5Cres%5Cdefault.css failed: 
UnacceptableType
(13.530002) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 2 fetches 
active
(13.55) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
file:///user.css failed: UnacceptableType
(13.550001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 1 fetches 
active
(13.565000) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112: stylesheet 
file:///u%3A%5Cg%5CApplications%5Cnetsurf%5Cres%5Cquirks.css failed: 
UnacceptableType
(13.565001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 116: 0 fetches 
active

(13.57) render/html.c html_begin_conversion 1085: Completing parse

To me that looks like some function stopped to return correct filetype 
now fails for some reason, maybe here:

http://git.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/tree/atari/filetype.c#n34

But I'm not sure, maybe the netsurf dev team knows about changes in 
that region.


Greets,
Ole

Re: CSS Base

[Ole]

I can see the following message in the log:

(13.530001) render/html_css.c html_convert_css_callback 112:
stylesheet
file:///u%3A%5Cg%5CApplications%5Cnetsurf%5Cres%5Cdefault.css failed:
UnacceptableType


Also, I hope that the URL appearance is OK at that point, the URL 
Encoding must
be removed when it is used as file path. I did not follow the URL 
handling changes

and maybe this doesn't work correctly at the atari version.

Greets,
Ole

CSS Base

[Peter Slegg]

Does anyone know what is wrong with the Atari daily builds?

Any page just opens a dialogue box saying CSS Base (attached).
No pages are rendered.

Peter

Re: CSS Base

[Michael Drake]

On 05/07/14 14:19, Peter Slegg wrote:
 Does anyone know what is wrong with the Atari daily builds?
 
 Any page just opens a dialogue box saying CSS Base (attached).
 No pages are rendered.

Looks like it's failing to find its resources.  Neither the default
style sheet or the Messages file have loaded.  I don't know how the
Atari front end deals with loading them.

-- 
Michael Drakehttp://www.netsurf-browser.org/

CSS selection speedup

[Michael Drake]

Recent development builds now use an updated version of our libcss
library.  It makes a significant optimisation to the amount of time
NetSurf spends applying CSS rules to document elements to discover their
style.

The improvement is in NetSurf CI builds from #1508 onward.

For more details about the change to libcss and profiling results, see
this posting:

http://vlists.pepperfish.net/pipermail/netsurf-dev-netsurf-browser.org/2013-December/003230.html

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: Upper character truncation - CSS handling

[John Williams]

In article mpro.mlc3ut004g9yd015i.pit...@pittdj.co.uk,
   David Pitt pit...@pittdj.co.uk wrote:

 Is this the earlier instance:-

 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=323group_id=51719atid=464312

That's it - and sorry, it was you and not another David!

I see this hasn't been corrected, but am delighted to see that the similar
effect on the Google page links to the right of the search box /has/ been
fixed.

A much better impression for all our RPi new users!

John

Re: Upper character truncation - CSS handling

[Vincent Sanders]

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 10:04:10PM +0100, John Williams wrote:
 
 I see at:
 
 http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/sale/dogs/bedlington-terrier/wakefield/
 
 an illustration of the subject line which may be related to the problem
 (which I have lost track of) reported by me, and, I think, Dave Higton some
 years ago which was not actioned.
 
 The problem is that the top few lines of the characters in the headines are
 not displayed.
 

If you want this fixed please submit it to our issue tracker,
otherwise it is liable to be ignored.

Some brief analysis shows this is due to the css rule:

.curvedboxcontainer h1 {
font-family: Passion One, Helvetica, san-serif;
font-size: 36px;
color: #b66222;
line-height: 90%;
}

It appears the bounding box height is scaled by 90% but not the text
itself. I also note NetSurf falls back to the sans-serif font choice
which should not be a factor.


-- 
Regards Vincent
http://www.kyllikki.org/

Re: Upper character truncation - CSS handling

[Chris Young]

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:27:10 +0100, Vincent Sanders wrote:

 I also note NetSurf falls back to the sans-serif font choice
 which should not be a factor.

That should probably be on the request tracker too, if it isn't
already.  I remember some discussion about implementing usage of
specific fonts quite some years ago.

Chris

Re: Upper character truncation - CSS handling

[John Williams]

In article 20130415072710.ga30...@kyllikki.org,
   Vincent Sanders vi...@netsurf-browser.org wrote:

 If you want this fixed please submit it to our issue tracker,
 otherwise it is liable to be ignored.

 Some brief analysis shows this is due to the css rule:

 .curvedboxcontainer h1 {
 font-family: Passion One, Helvetica, san-serif;
 font-size: 36px;
 color: #b66222;
 line-height: 90%;
 }

 It appears the bounding box height is scaled by 90% but not the text
 itself. I also note NetSurf falls back to the sans-serif font choice
 which should not be a factors

If it is the same issue I reported some years ago - without result ...

 On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:27:10 +0100, Vincent Sanders wrote:

  I also note NetSurf falls back to the sans-serif font choice
  which should not be a factor.

 That should probably be on the request tracker too, if it isn't
 already.  I remember some discussion about implementing usage of
 specific fonts quite some years ago.

What concerns me is that the Google home page also displays a similar
problem with the 'Advanced Search' and 'Language Tools' links to the riht
of the search box - which may confuse/discourage our new RPi users!

It needs sorting!

John

Re: Upper character truncation - CSS handling

[John-Mark Bell]

On Mon, 2013-04-15 at 21:59 +0100, John Williams wrote:

 It needs sorting!

Patches are always welcome.


J.

Upper character truncation - CSS handling

[John Williams]

I see at:

http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/sale/dogs/bedlington-terrier/wakefield/

an illustration of the subject line which may be related to the problem
(which I have lost track of) reported by me, and, I think, Dave Higton some
years ago which was not actioned.

The problem is that the top few lines of the characters in the headines are
not displayed.

John

Re: viewing CSS

[Brian Jordan]

In message 0229de1f53.iyoj...@rickman.argonet.co.uk
  John Rickman Iyonix rick...@argonet.co.uk wrote:

 Does anyone know of a neater way of viewing CSS?

[snip]

Full save to disc, open generated pseudo app, read CSS file(s). Or 
have I missed the point?


-- 

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA on Windows 8
RISC OS 6.20

Re: viewing CSS

[Tim Hill]

In article 0229de1f53.iyoj...@rickman.argonet.co.uk,
   John Rickman Iyonix rick...@argonet.co.uk wrote:
 Does anyone know of a neater way of viewing CSS?
 What I do at present is
   press F8 to view html.
   look at the -link rel=stylesheet- statement for the css file
   click in the NS url text area
   delete back to the url base
   type the CSS relative path and file name
   press enter

Similar, but I use cut'n'paste. Less prone to mistiping. 

 It would be useful if NetSurf had a View CSS.. menu option, but I have 
 no idea how much work this would involve.

More than very occasional use by a very few of us would warrant, I
imagine.

-- 
Tim Hill
..
www.timil.com

Re: viewing CSS

[Rob Kendrick]

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:23:46AM +, Tim Hill wrote:
  It would be useful if NetSurf had a View CSS.. menu option, but I have 
  no idea how much work this would involve.
 
 More than very occasional use by a very few of us would warrant, I
 imagine.

Given a web page can have basically as many CSS files as it likes,
arranged in a tree of dependencies that import one and other, how would
these even work?  Parse all the documents and emit a single CSS document
that represented NetSurf's understanding?

Sounds like a lot of work for an occasional convenience :)

B.

Re: viewing CSS

[John Rickman Iyonix]

Rob Kendrick  wrote

 On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:23:46AM +, Tim Hill wrote:
 It would be useful if NetSurf had a View CSS.. menu option, but I have
 no idea how much work this would involve.
 
 More than very occasional use by a very few of us would warrant, I
 imagine.

 Given a web page can have basically as many CSS files as it likes,
 arranged in a tree of dependencies that import one and other, how would
 these even work?  Parse all the documents and emit a single CSS document
 that represented NetSurf's understanding?

Firefox and Chromium offer CSS and JavaScript viewing via Add-ons or 
Plug-ins.

Chromium (Web Developer) lists the files one after another.
Firebug does the same under the HTML tab. It also has a CSS tab which 
purports to show the CSS that it is using. You would expect this to 
show the combination of all loaded style sheets but it seems to show 
the FIRST one only -surely shome mishtake!

 Sounds like a lot of work for an occasional convenience :)
I am not going to argue with a developer:)


-- 
John Rickman -  http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
Tout a été dit, mais comme personne n'écoute, il faut toujours 
répéter.

Re: Full Save not setting of CSS files

[John Rickman Iyonix]

David Pitt  wrote

 John Rickman Iyonix, on 29 Nov, wrote:

 When you run a NetSurf Full Save application it does not act on the the
 CSS information because the CSS file is given a type of Text.

 The css file is correctly typed here on the ARMini, mimemap does have the
 css entry.

Thanks - David and Brian - mimemap was missing an entry for css. I 
have added one and the filetype is now being correctly set.

Incidently, the same problem occurs on the official RISC OS Raspberry 
Pi release.


-- 
John - http://mug.riscos.org/

Full Save not setting of CSS files

[John Rickman Iyonix]

When you run a NetSurf Full Save application it does not act on the 
the CSS information because the CSS file is given a type of Text.

This is on an Iyonix 5.19, NetSurf #674. I think it used to work but 
am not sure.

As an example open:-

   http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/

do a Full Save, then run the resulting !temp application. The 
background picture is not shown and the two column layout is lost.

On my machine the CSS file created is called 0x71755530, and has a 
type of text. If this is changed to type CSS the two column layout is 
reinstated but the background image is still not shown because the 
name in the CSS file no longer matches the name of the image that 
NetSurf has created.

I will report as a bug if it is confirmed here.
-- 
John - http://mug.riscos.org/

Re: Full Save not setting of CSS files

[Brian Jordan]

In message 152966f652.iyoj...@rickman.argonet.co.uk
  John Rickman Iyonix rick...@argonet.co.uk wrote:

 When you run a NetSurf Full Save application it does not act on the
 the CSS information because the CSS file is given a type of Text.

 This is on an Iyonix 5.19, NetSurf #674. I think it used to work but
 am not sure.

 As an example open:-

http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/

 do a Full Save, then run the resulting !temp application. The
 background picture is not shown and the two column layout is lost.

 On my machine the CSS file created is called 0x71755530, and has a
 type of text. If this is changed to type CSS the two column layout is
 reinstated but the background image is still not shown because the
 name in the CSS file no longer matches the name of the image that
 NetSurf has created.


[snip]

 Here the CSS file (in this case 0x67192c10) is shown as the 
 correct type (f79 CSS) and I see the two column layout when 
 I load the HTML file. The background image is saved as a jpg 
 file 0x669d26e0 but the reference within the CSS file is 
 unchanged as torridon.jpg. Editing the CSS file to use the 
 saved name of the graphic file achieves the correct result. 
 It looks like the CSS file should be edited in the full save 
 process or the graphic file should have its name unchanged. 
 This in version 685 of Netsurf and after a quick check all 
 the above seems to apply under Netsurf 2.9.

Brian




-- 

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA
RISC OS 6.20

Re: Full Save not setting of CSS files

[John Rickman Iyonix]

  John Rickman Iyonix wrote:

 When you run a NetSurf Full Save application it does not act on the
 the CSS information because the CSS file is given a type of Text.
 This is on an Iyonix 5.19, NetSurf #674.
eg
http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/

 do a Full Save, then run the resulting !temp application. The
 background picture is not shown and the two column layout is lost.
...

Brian Jordan  wrote

  Here the CSS file (in this case 0x67192c10) is shown as the
  correct type (f79 CSS) and I see the two column layout when
  I load the HTML file. The background image is saved as a jpg
  file 0x669d26e0 but the reference within the CSS file is
  unchanged as torridon.jpg. Editing the CSS file to use the
  saved name of the graphic file achieves the correct result.
  It looks like the CSS file should be edited in the full save
  process or the graphic file should have its name unchanged.
  This in version 685 of Netsurf and after a quick check all
  the above seems to apply under Netsurf 2.9.


Thanks Brian
I have just updated to #685 but get the same result, ie the css file 
is typed Text.
Are you using RISC OS 5.19?





-- 
John - http://mug.riscos.org/

Re: Full Save not setting of CSS files

[Brian Jordan]

In message d58c6df652.iyoj...@rickman.argonet.co.uk
  John Rickman Iyonix rick...@argonet.co.uk wrote:



  John Rickman Iyonix wrote:

 When you run a NetSurf Full Save application it does not act on the
 the CSS information because the CSS file is given a type of Text.
 This is on an Iyonix 5.19, NetSurf #674.
eg
http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/

 do a Full Save, then run the resulting !temp application. The
 background picture is not shown and the two column layout is lost.
 ...

 Brian Jordan  wrote

  Here the CSS file (in this case 0x67192c10) is shown as the
  correct type (f79 CSS) and I see the two column layout when
  I load the HTML file. The background image is saved as a jpg
  file 0x669d26e0 but the reference within the CSS file is
  unchanged as torridon.jpg. Editing the CSS file to use the
  saved name of the graphic file achieves the correct result.
  It looks like the CSS file should be edited in the full save
  process or the graphic file should have its name unchanged.
  This in version 685 of Netsurf and after a quick check all
  the above seems to apply under Netsurf 2.9.


 Thanks Brian
 I have just updated to #685 but get the same result, ie the css file
 is typed Text.
 Are you using RISC OS 5.19?

John
Is this file type a mimemap issue? Does your mimemap file contain a 
line like text/css  CSS f79 .css? If not it might help to add it. As 
to my operating system it is 6.20 on a Virtual Acorn.
-- 

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA
RISC OS 6.20

Re: Full Save not setting of CSS files

[David Pitt]

John Rickman Iyonix, on 29 Nov, wrote:

 When you run a NetSurf Full Save application it does not act on the the
 CSS information because the CSS file is given a type of Text.
 
 This is on an Iyonix 5.19, NetSurf #674. I think it used to work but am
 not sure.
 
 As an example open:-
 
http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/
 
 do a Full Save, then run the resulting !temp application. The background
 picture is not shown and the two column layout is lost.

There are two style sheets referenced in the original, as retrieved with a
normal save :-

 link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=home.css /
 link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=local.css /

The full save only recognizes the first of these :-

 LINK rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=0x68d0f9c8/LINK
 LINK rel=stylesheet type=text/css
href=http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/local.css;/LINK

http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/local.css on its own gives a not found
error.

There does appear to be some garbage at the top of the full save index file.

 On my machine the CSS file created is called 0x71755530, and has a type of
 text. If this is changed to type CSS the two column layout is reinstated
 but the background image is still not shown because the name in the CSS
 file no longer matches the name of the image that NetSurf has created.

The css file is correctly typed here on the ARMini, mimemap does have the
css entry.

Hope this helps.

-- 
David Pitt

Re: CSS position not supported workaround

[Jess Hampshire]

In message 52ef307005t...@netsurf-browser.org
  Michael Drake t...@netsurf-browser.org wrote:

 Originally this was because there was no way to implement it in a way that
 would give satisfactory performance e.g. on peoples' RiscPCs.  It forces a
 serious penalty on scrolling pages that use it.

Would it be possible to have a faster but less accurate setting that 
can be used on lower powered machines?
-- 
Jess

Re: CSS position not supported workaround

[Rob Kendrick]

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 07:39:35AM -0800, Jess Hampshire wrote:
 In message 52ef307005t...@netsurf-browser.org
   Michael Drake t...@netsurf-browser.org wrote:
 
  Originally this was because there was no way to implement it in a way that
  would give satisfactory performance e.g. on peoples' RiscPCs.  It forces a
  serious penalty on scrolling pages that use it.
 
 Would it be possible to have a faster but less accurate setting that 
 can be used on lower powered machines?

It's called Fresco.

B.

Re: CSS position not supported workaround

[Michael Drake]

In article 970f2cef52.iyoj...@rickman.argonet.co.uk,
   John Rickman Iyonix rick...@argonet.co.uk wrote:

 I would like to be able to fix some heading content on a page so that 
 when the page is scrolled the heading stays on the screen.

As you've seen position:fixed is not implemented.  It is treated as
position:absolute.

Originally this was because there was no way to implement it in a way that
would give satisfactory performance e.g. on peoples' RiscPCs.  It forces a
serious penalty on scrolling pages that use it.

Same with background-attachment:fixed.

Now we're less bothered about that, but we aren't likely to implement it
before the layout engine rewrite.

 Is there anyway to do this that would work in NetSurf?
 A JavaScript solution is obviously not on.

Only HTML Frames, but they have their own limitations.

Does your design actually need it?  Usually I detest it when I see it.  :)
The performance penalty can affect e.g. Chrome/Firefox on modern PCs too,
although to a lesser extent.

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: CSS position not supported workaround

[John Rickman Iyonix]

Michael Drake  wrote

 In article 970f2cef52.iyoj...@rickman.argonet.co.uk,
John Rickman Iyonix rick...@argonet.co.uk wrote:

 I would like to be able to fix some heading content on a page so that
 when the page is scrolled the heading stays on the screen.
...
 Is there anyway to do this that would work in NetSurf?
 A JavaScript solution is obviously not on.

 Only HTML Frames, but they have their own limitations.

 Does your design actually need it?  Usually I detest it when I see it.  :)
 The performance penalty can affect e.g. Chrome/Firefox on modern PCs too,
 although to a lesser extent.

In this case, the design really does need it. What I want to keep at 
the top of the window is a lookup table which enables multiple 
interpretations of the content that follows.

You can see what I am trying to do here:-

  http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/john/songs/songsaf.html

If you don't play the guitar it probably won't make a lot of sense, 
but basically it enables a guitarist to play any of the songs in any 
key without use of a capo.

The performance hit on the scroll is acceptable here because once you 
have found the song you want to play you don't have to scroll again 
until you want to change songs.



-- 
John - http://mug.riscos.org/

per site user css

[Gavin Wraith]

I was grateful to read about Choices:WWW.NetSurf.User. Is there
any way to make css instructions conditional on the site being
browsed? A mechanism that could be used for sites likely to be
browsed by RISC OS browsers might be to dedicate a system variable.
So, for the riscos.info site, for example, if its pages had a
line in the header:
 
link rel=stylesheet href=file:///ro_info$style type=text/css /

the user could simply set the system variable ro_info$style at bootup
to be the pathname of the stylefile to be used. This method appears to work.
Whether it is a sensible idea, or a feasible idea, is another matter.

-- 
Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/

Re: per site user css

[Michael Drake]

In article c03bead952.wra...@wra1th.plus.com,
   Gavin Wraith ga...@wra1th.plus.com wrote:

 I was grateful to read about Choices:WWW.NetSurf.User. Is there
 any way to make css instructions conditional on the site being
 browsed?

No, we don't have any way to support that yet.

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

height attribute in CSS

[Gavin Wraith]

I have come across a difference between the way NetSurf 2.9 (on
an Iyonix) and Firefox 15 (on an XP notebook) treat the CSS
height attribute.
The way NetSurf does it gives the display I want, and I am trying
to figure out how to make Firefox do the same.

My webpages are to be in three columns, with the leftside and rightside
columns being narrow vertical graphics (that are links), with the content
in the middle column. 

The relevant CSS contains the following:

#leftside, #rightside
{
 position: absolute;
 top: 0;
 width: 70px;
 height: 100%;
 background-repeat: repeat-y;
 background-position: 0% 0%;
 text-decoration: none;
}
#leftside
{
 left: 0;
 background-image: url(images/background/lpage.png);
}
#rightside
{
 right: 0;
 background-image: url(images/background/rpage.png);
}
.content
{
 position: relative;
 width: auto;
 left: 70px;
 right: 70px;
 padding-right: 100px;
}

The trouble is that Firefox seems to be interpreting height: 100%;
as 100% of the height of the graphics screen, so as soon as you
scroll Firefox's window it becomes apparent that the lefthand and 
righthand columns are not extending to the bottom of the middle column.
Am I making an idiotic mistake somewhere and NetSurf is being more
forgiving than Firefox? Has anybody else encountered this?

-- 
Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/

CSS height attribute

[Gavin Wraith]

I found out how to get the effect I wanted both in NetSurf
and in Firefox by avoiding the height attribute. I put
everything inside a containing box and for the left- and
right-hand columns set the attributes top and bottom to 0.
Then their heights get sucked to that of the middle column.

-- 
Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/

This site requires CSS to be enabled...

[Harriet Bazley]

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/rochdale/archive01.htm

This site apparently requires something more than CCS to be enabled in
order to reveal the 'hidden' portions of each image...


Is the problem in the 'hover' attributes?

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

Those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who do.

Re: This site requires CSS to be enabled...

[Michael Drake]

In article 64b9cd4d52.harr...@blueyonder.co.uk,
   Harriet Bazley li...@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk wrote:

 http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/rochdale/archive01.htm

 Is the problem in the 'hover' attributes?

The :hover pseudo class is not yet supported.  It's currently planned for
NetSurf 4.

http://wiki.netsurf-browser.org/Development_Plan


The page shifts the background image sideways on hover to reveal a
different part of the image.

e.g. http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/archive/rollover/ro018.jpg

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: This site requires CSS to be enabled...

[Harriet Bazley]

On 7 Jan 2012 as I do recall,
  Michael Drake  wrote:

 In article 64b9cd4d52.harr...@blueyonder.co.uk,
Harriet Bazley li...@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk wrote:

  http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/rochdale/archive01.htm

  Is the problem in the 'hover' attributes?

 The :hover pseudo class is not yet supported.  It's currently planned for
 NetSurf 4.

Thanks for the info.

At least it's not JavaScript

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

Re: This site requires CSS to be enabled...

[Richard Ashbery]

In article 64b9cd4d52.harr...@blueyonder.co.uk, Harriet Bazley
li...@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk wrote:
 http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/rochdale/archive01.htm

 This site apparently requires something more than CCS to be enabled
 in order to reveal the 'hidden' portions of each image...


 Is the problem in the 'hover' attributes?

Yes - I think it is - isn't this a problem with CSS Pseudo-classes?
Have a look at Development Progress CSS features.. Status - says
'Just started'. 

NetSurf.. Rev 13329

-- 
Richard Ashbery

Wakefield 2012 - Saturday 28th April
http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk

Generic 'font' styling in CSS

[Tim Hill]

In article a72ab9d951.harr...@blueyonder.co.uk,
   Harriet Bazley li...@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk wrote:
 So, p style=font: oblique bold 100% sans-serif should work...
 and yes, it does.   :-)

http://www.w3schools.com/css/tryit.asp?filename=trycss_font

Is another good example. 

(For anyone not familiar, http://w3schools.com is an excellent resource.
Whilst full explanations are not always there, examining their code -
maybe cutting and pasting - pays dividends. I say maybe because it
doesn't work with Netsurf it seems.)

-- 
Tim Hill
..
www.timil.com

Re: Generic 'font' styling in CSS

[John Williams]

In article 51d9dc4a02...@timil.com,
   Tim Hill t...@timil.com wrote:

 For anyone not familiar, http://w3schools.com is an excellent resource.

 [Snip]

 I say maybe because it doesn't work with Netsurf it seems.

The problem is with NetSurf replacing spaces with hard spaces.

Easily solved using, for example, !ConvText using a script line of the form:

  [160]:[32]  |This turns a hard space into a normal one

- or you could use your favourite text editor to search and replace.


It can be useful to have a display font which shows hard spaces differently
to check.  A bit annoying, tho', for displaying news and mail from lazy
typers who catch the Alt key whilst typing spaces.

John

Re: Generic 'font' styling in CSS

[Tim Hill]

In article 51d9dde821joh...@ukgateway.net, John Williams
joh...@ukgateway.net wrote:
 In article 51d9dc4a02...@timil.com, Tim Hill t...@timil.com wrote:

[snip]

Okay, you can forget what I posted, which was wrong. A re-boot reinstated
NetSurf (r12443)'s ability to cut'n'paste and I have not noticed problems
with any hard spaces either.

-- 
Tim Hill
..
www.timil.com

Generic 'font' styling in CSS

[Harriet Bazley]

According to my reading of Chris Terran's StrongHelp CSS manual,
 p style=font: bold oblique sans-serif
ought to be a shortcut for
 p style=font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: bold; font-style: oblique

However, the former doesn't seem to do anything for me in Netsurf,
whereas the latter does.
http://www.netsurf-browser.org/documentation/progress
states that implementation of 'font (shorthand)' is complete (with the
exception of the not-yet-implemented 'font-' variant), so have I got the
syntax wrong?

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

I like work; it fascinates me; I can sit and look at it for hours.

Re: Generic 'font' styling in CSS

[Harriet Bazley]

On 26 May 2011 as I do recall,
  Michael Drake  wrote:

 In article 95fd7ad951.harr...@blueyonder.co.uk,
Harriet Bazley li...@orange.wingsandbeaks.org.uk wrote:

  According to my reading of Chris Terran's StrongHelp CSS manual,

 Best to use the spec.  You can also use a CSS validator.

The properties that can be set, are (in order): font-style
font-variant font-weight font-size/line-height font-family

The font-size and font-family values are required. If one of the
other values are missing, the default values will be inserted, if
any.

http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_font_font.asp


How awkward; I don't normally want to fiddle around with the font
*size*...
So what I want is 100%, presumably, to avoid altering it.


   p style=font: bold oblique sans-serif

 You must have the font-size then the font-familly after the other ones.
 You omit the font-size.

So, p style=font: oblique bold 100% sans-serif should work...
and yes, it does.   :-)

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

The only rose without thorns is friendship.

Re: CSS Bounding Boxes

[Michael Drake]

In article 51aa08419bjoh...@ukgateway.net,
   John Williams joh...@ukgateway.net wrote:

 URL is http://le.petit.four.free.fr/chorale/

Thanks, please try r11770.

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: CSS Bounding Boxes

[John Williams]

In article 51aa10973at...@netsurf-browser.org,
   Michael Drake t...@netsurf-browser.org wrote:

 Thanks, please try r11770.

Thank you; expected behaviour restored!

Best wishes, 
 
John

Re: RO full save and images in CSS

[Rob Kendrick]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 03:42:54AM +, Harriet Bazley wrote:
 I don't think that's actually possible:   WebsterXL used to try to do
 just this, and the result was that you got all sorts of directories with
 random image files in appearing *above* the 'full save' you thought
 you'd created.   Unfortunately not all elements of a web page are
 necessarily loaded from levels subsidiary to the actual HTML file.

It's worse than that; any given URL might return different data on each
request.  (Think about what happens if a counter image CGI is included
twice.)

B.

Re: RO full save and images in CSS

[Harriet Bazley]

On 25 Jan 2011 as I do recall,
  Martin Bazley  wrote:

 (The full save code really needs rewriting anyway, to organise things in
 a directory structure with original leafnames intact mimicking the
 structure of an actual website, simultaneously making it more
 user-friendly to browse and easier to transcode URLs for

[snip]

I don't think that's actually possible:   WebsterXL used to try to do
just this, and the result was that you got all sorts of directories with
random image files in appearing *above* the 'full save' you thought
you'd created.   Unfortunately not all elements of a web page are
necessarily loaded from levels subsidiary to the actual HTML file.

I find Netsurf's approach - to rewrite the whole thing into a RISC OS
application structure and enclose an Inventory file listing the original
sources/names of the files - to be much more useful in practice, and
more elegant.

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from

Re: RO full save and images in CSS

[Martin Bazley]

The following bytes were arranged on 29 Jan 2011 by Harriet Bazley :

 Unfortunately not all elements of a web page are necessarily loaded
 from levels subsidiary to the actual HTML file.

Well, yeah, duh.

The structure I'd find useful would be something like this:

!Appname
!Appname.www/example/org/uk
!Appname.www/example/org/uk.index/html
!Appname.www/example/org/uk.images.pic1a/gif
!Appname.www/example/org/uk.thumbs.pic1a/gif
!Appname.www/another/site/com.public.pics.big.screen/jpg
!Appname.!Run (Filer_Run Appname$Dir.www/example/org/uk.index/html)

That way, filename conversion would simply be a matter of replacing
http://; with file:///Appname$Dir/, and relative URLs wouldn't need
changing at all.  This would have the advantage that relative URLs in
places not currently supported (e.g. CSS) could be much more easily
manually fixed, by simply downloading the pictures and placing them in
the correct directory.

I don't find NetSurf's current structure very useful at all - not just
because it makes it impossible to find anything, but because it makes it
almost impossible to correct it when things go wrong, such as the
problem mentioned in this thread!

Another benefit of the above structure would be that you could full-save
two different web pages on top of the same application.  (To this end,
an option to automatically convert URLs to the local structure,
regardless of whether it meets the criteria for downloading or not,
would be helpful.)

All the same, I get the distinct impression that the only way that would
ever happen would be if I implemented it myself.  (Which I would, if
NetSurf wasn't written in this mysterious indecipherable language called
'C'...)

-- 
  __^__   Follow me on Twitter! -- http://twitter.com/swirlythingy
 / _   _ \  (Or, um, don't.  It's a free country and all that.)
( ( |_| ) )
 \_   _/  === Martin Bazley ==

Re: RO full save and images in CSS

[Martin Bazley]

The following bytes were arranged on 27 Jan 2011 by Erving :

 From:  Martin Bazley martin.baz...@blueyonder.co.uk
 Date:  25 Jan 2011

  For a good example, try full-saving http://www.beano.com/ .

 I just repeatedly get 'Connection time-out' (Risc PC, RISC OS 4.02
 Netsurf 2.6) though Firefox on an ancient widows laptop displays the
 page in seconds.

Yes, it does that sometimes; you just have to keep refreshing until it
works.

-- 
  __^__   Follow me on Twitter! -- http://twitter.com/swirlythingy
 / _   _ \  (Or, um, don't.  It's a free country and all that.)
( ( |_| ) )
 \_   _/  === Martin Bazley ==

Re: RO full save and images in CSS

[Erving]

From:  Martin Bazley martin.baz...@blueyonder.co.uk
Date:  25 Jan 2011

snip
 
 For a good example, try full-saving http://www.beano.com/ .
 
snip


I just repeatedly get 'Connection time-out' (Risc PC, RISC OS 4.02 
Netsurf 2.6) though Firefox on an ancient widows laptop displays the 
page in seconds.

--

Erving
 

Re: RO full save and images in CSS

[Rob Kendrick]

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 03:00:02PM +, Martin Bazley wrote:
 
 (The full save code really needs rewriting anyway, to organise things in
 a directory structure with original leafnames intact mimicking the
 structure of an actual website, simultaneously making it more
 user-friendly to browse and easier to transcode URLs for, but that won't
 happen in the near future and this is a more important stop-gap.)

The need to rewrite the full save functionality was discussed at our
last hack weekend.  Apart from the issue you describe, the other obvious
one is that it is very RISC OS-specific.

The only blocker on doing this is nobody wanting to spend the time to do it.

B.

CSS torture test

[Martin Bazley]

Just thought I'd share this (pure HTML and CSS) URL for when the new CSS
parser is done:

http://www.shouldiworkforfree.com/

It'll be interesting to come back afterwards and see how much has been
fixed.

-- 
  __^__   Follow me on Twitter! -- http://twitter.com/swirlythingy
 / _   _ \  (Or, um, don't.  It's a free country and all that.)
( ( |_| ) )
 \_   _/  === Martin Bazley ==

CSS: a:hover and z-index

[Gary Jones]

Hi

Does anyone know when/if the CSS pseudo class a:hover  and z-index 
property is planned. I see they're listed as 'not started' at the 
moment.

Thanks

-- 
Gary Jones
Get free cashback for your online purchases
http://www.topcashback.co.uk/percap

Re: CSS: a:hover and z-index

[Rob Kendrick]

On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:35:08 GMT
Gary Jones localn...@ntlworld.com wrote:

 Does anyone know when/if the CSS pseudo class a:hover  and z-index 
 property is planned. I see they're listed as 'not started' at the 
 moment.

There is no plan.  Please note that this does not mean we do not intend
to implement it.  Currently, we are working on other things and our
free time short.

B.

CSS changed?

[Brian Jordan]

A recent change to Netsurf has caused one of my sites to stop rendering
as I intended. Very recently [1] my site at www.clubmans.org.uk started
having its content jumping out of the containing div in a very
inelegant fashion. It looks as if the left margin is spacing the content
away from the floated left menu buttons whereas previously it was spaced
from the left side of the containing div.
I am happy to concede that I am a CSS newcomer and that my code may well
be at fault, nontheless it worked until recently and continues to work on
most other browsers in XP, Mac and Ubuntu.

Can anyone using a not fully up to date Netsurf 2 have a look and help me
narrow the change down so that I can report this properly?

Brian

[1] This has happened within the last month but I can't say exactly when
as I don't have previous builds available to me, I am also aware that the
photo galleries don't work in NetSurf due to my use of some CSS which
hasn't been implemented yet inNetsurf and I am not concerned about this
but it would be nice to see the home page and other simple pages working
even though I am probably the only person to view this site in NetSurf.

-- 
__

Brian Jordan
From somewhere in North Hampshire. England. UK.
__

Re: CSS changed?

[David H Wild]

In article 502343dd84brian.jord...@btinternet.com,
   Brian Jordan brian.jord...@btinternet.com wrote:
 [1] This has happened within the last month but I can't say exactly when
 as I don't have previous builds available to me, I am also aware that the
 photo galleries don't work in NetSurf due to my use of some CSS which
 hasn't been implemented yet inNetsurf and I am not concerned about this
 but it would be nice to see the home page and other simple pages working
 even though I am probably the only person to view this site in NetSurf.

I had a look at your site and the galleries seemed to work.

-- 
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband
www.davidhwild.me.uk

Re: CSS changed?

[Michael Drake]

In article 502343dd84brian.jord...@btinternet.com,
   Brian Jordan brian.jord...@btinternet.com wrote:
 A recent change to Netsurf has caused one of my sites to stop rendering
 as I intended. Very recently [1] my site at www.clubmans.org.uk started
 having its content jumping out of the containing div in a very
 inelegant fashion.

Should be fixed in the latest build.

 I am also aware that the photo galleries don't work in NetSurf due to my
 use of some CSS which hasn't been implemented yet in NetSurf

Actually the scrollbars should be working, I'm not sure why they don't
work there.. We use them on the NetSurf homepage, for example, if you make
the window too narrow to show the screenshot
http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Michael

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Roll-over in CSS

[Richard Ashbery]

I've been having a look at CSS - I am in the learning curve mode. I've
tried a piece of test code that enables a user to hover over a link
which forces a colour change and the text to grow larger. I can't see
anything in the Help file.. CSS properties about the id selector
declaration #menu li a:hover. I hope this is the correct terminology.
Are your team intending to implement this useful Javascript lookalike
facility?

If it helps I can mail the code (from Creating Web Sites Bible) if it
helps.

Appreciate all the work you've done so far on the project.

Regards

Richard

Re: Roll-over in CSS

[Richard Ashbery]

In article
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
   John-Mark Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Richard Ashbery wrote:

  I've been having a look at CSS - I am in the learning curve mode.
  I've tried a piece of test code that enables a user to hover
  over a link which forces a colour change and the text to grow
  larger. I can't see anything in the Help file.. CSS
  properties about the id selector declaration #menu li a:hover. I
  hope this is the correct terminology. Are your team intending to
  implement this useful Javascript lookalike facility?

 Pseudo selectors are on the todo list, yes.

Excellent John. I have just looked again at NetSurf's CSS features list
and it clearly says Pseudo-classes and elements not started. Sorry about
that - as I have stated before I have a problem with understanding the
CSS terminology. I have just ordered a CSS specific book from Amazon to
try to get a better understanding of this complex subject.

Thanks for your reply. Things are progressing so quickly in CSS I
wonder if it heralds the end of Javascript. Live in hopes. I do like
the CSS structure - some of the basic stuff I've looked at makes a lot
of sense and can significantly improve the look of web pages.

Regards

Richard