[NSP] Re: ebay book
I'm glad it's of interest - hope it goes to a good home! Richard. (I even managed to spell my own name right the second time round :-) ) Roger Howard wrote: It is, presumably, a copy of the second edition (1931), with what appears to be a homemade cover. Fenwick's original Tutor (1895) was edited by W.A. Cocks and G.H. Askew. Regards Roger Howard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: ebay book
Same one indeed , Helenora - we'll reply off-list. R. Helenora wrote: > If you are looking for old Northumbrian an Scottish music this is a good > site, they seem to have had access to old books and they copy them onto CD > and sell them that way > > https://www.scotpress.com/catalog/index.php > > Are you the same Richard who's wife (Liz) plays harp and we used to meet at > the Edinburgh Harp festival? > > We are now living in Sunny British Columbia (- 10 and 4 feet of snow at the > moment) > > H is still playing lots on the harp, I don't do as much with the smallpipes > and the GHB have somewhat taken over > > > Carl & Helenora Smith > > -Original Message- > From: Richard York [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:22 AM > To: NSP group > Subject: [NSP] Re: ebay book > > > I'm glad it's of interest - hope it goes to a good home! > Richard. > (I even managed to spell my own name right the second time round :-) ) > > Roger Howard wrote: > >> It is, presumably, a copy of the second edition (1931), with what appears >> > to > >> be a homemade cover. Fenwick's original Tutor (1895) was edited by W.A. >> Cocks and G.H. Askew. >> >> Regards >> >> Roger Howard >> >> > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > __ NOD32 2833 (20080129) Information __ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > This email has been verified as Virus free. > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net > > > --
[NSP] Re: Flowers of the Forest
I've mainly heard the version Julia gives first, though I got it from
Kathryn Tickell's playing.
Matt, I haven't heard the Rob MacKillop version - is this the same as
Julia's version 1, please?
With thanks,
Richard.
P.S. To Matt - I've just got your Vickers new edition - Smashing!
Matt Seattle wrote:
As I understand it - and I haven't researched this extensively - there
are 2 main versions, one is very old and much simpler than the rest,
and is from a 1600s Scottish mandour tablature book. It's recorded by
Rob MacKillop on mandour on his Greentrax album called - Flowers of
the Forest. I think it's also this version ('The Liltin') that's
played by the brass band at the Selkirk Common Riding.
The other one is the more elaborate 4-strain version in the Scots
Musical Museum, a song book to which R Burns contributed heavily. This
verson seems to be the source of the 3 which Julia quotes, and it is
occasionally sung as in the book. The melody is a bit more florid and
with a slightly wider range (down to E) than any of these 3; strain 4
is a repeat of strain 2, with the C naturals; and the original is
scored in A flat. This is also the source of the GHB versions, though
these are 'topped and tailed' and don't have C nat.
This is all just information, and needs to be checked. I wouldn't wish
to make a choice for NSP players other than suggest an 'as played by
..' or 'as sung by ...' , so maybe Ray's is the one to go with?
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[NSP] Re: Up the Walls of the World
Thanks, both Peter & Rob for these details! Richard. Peter Dyson wrote: Red Shift "Back in the Red", 1987, track one, side one: Valencia Harbour (trad) Up the Walls of the World (Martin Reese/Paul Thomson) Around the World for Sport on this record, Red Shift were: Pete Coe, John Adams, George Faux, and Dave Shaw. Cheers, Peter Dyson Bellingham, WA -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] boring test
With apologies... I've just changed all my email settings, 'cos of 2000 spams a day, & am just checking this still works. Happy Summer to all, anyway. R. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] re-Tune title spelling
Interesting - name spelling consistency seems to have been a remarkably variable thing anyway until relatively recently. When did it generally get standardised, I wonder? Richard York, (or in some branches of the family, Yorke...) Jim Grant wrote: Maybe his name was re spelled at the time of his death, to protect the rest of the family- the pc of the time- "James who? No, no relation. of ours.." So if the current generation want to reclaim him, they would have to change to his spelling, as in "You only inherit if you take my name!" To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] re-Tune title spelling
No, it's the little hamlet just down the road, York-With-Outany ;-) R. Is that as in Yorke-Withany? Honor Hill -Original Message- From: Richard York [[1]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 3:27 PM To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] re-Tune title spelling Interesting - name spelling consistency seems to have been a remarkably variable thing anyway until relatively recently. When did it generally get standardised, I wonder? Richard York, (or in some branches of the family, Yorke...) Jim Grant wrote: > Maybe his name was re spelled at the time of his death, to protect > the rest of the family- the pc of the time- "James who? No, no > relation. of ours.." > So if the current generation want to reclaim him, they would have to > change to his spelling, as in "You only inherit if you take my name!" > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] re-Bellingham show
.. they had no choytce, as it were...? With solemn apologies. Richard On 27 Aug 2008, JuliaSay wrote: > I have just been informed that Bellingham Show has been cancelled. The > field is waterlogged, and it's still raining there. They could not > leave a decision any longer. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
Oh dear - that wasn't what I meant at all! Just an honest appeal for information which seems to be common knowledge to many, but obscure to me, and I gather, others too. Because I don't know who is truly Outside The Pale I might get the wrong idea, and start thinking wrong things about absolute heroes/heroines. I really didn't mean to muddy the water, but I would just be interested to know who is considered a good role model, and, yes, who is considered not so, by those who have a lot more knowledge of the nsp's than I do, so that at least I can make up my own mind. I don't promise to be orthodox, and I reserve the right to my own musical judgement, but it would be useful to know, and might save a lot of time, and perhaps money in buying CD's. I have to admit that when people come up to me at events where I'm working & want to know about playing particular early instruments, I have been known to quietly suggest certain outlets which might be better treated with caution, just to save them wasting their money, but I'm not going to stand up & shout about it. My off-list reference was to save anyone having to Name Names in public, which would be embarrassing. I hope this isn't offending anyone, or getting into more politics. Music doesn't deserve that. Richard. So a whispering campaign? Is this really a good idea? Francis On 28 Aug 2008, at 10:14, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One frustration in the choyte debate was the "we-all-know-who-we're-talking-about" bit - we don't all know, if we're not of the tribe yet. If anyone cares to let me know, on- or off-list, who is Kosher & who isn't, it would be most helpful, and I'll listen with interest to the recordings. Include me in copy too pleez. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] re- Not Choyting, Advice please
P.S. and my main request was for technique advice. I'm grateful for the information already coming in - thanks! The bit about Kosher-or-not was really the lesser part of my message. Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
Thanks, Colin, for this thoughtful message. I've been playing a lot of different music for long enough to say "I agree" to just about everything you say here - exactly the considerations I'll be taking on. I've met just the same debate in other traditional music worlds, and feel that indeed the ultimate aim has to be to make the sound which you honestly want to make. It's just nice to have some pointers along the way, if only to help with learning what the "rules" - quotes on purpose - are, if only so you know what you're breaking later, and have the technique to do it soundly. I'd rather do it that way than flounder around without a proper grounding first, like the "Anyone can do Art" type of movement. [No I don't want to open that new can of worms here :-)] Long may your effigy be safe! Richard. colin wrote: Richard. First of all you have to make some huge decisions. Which style do you like? Do you want to play traditional competition style or do you want to play "all caution to the wind"? It's a musical instrument and there are several viewpoints. Think of it as Bob Dylan Syndrome. Those old enough may remember the concerts he did back in the 60's when he did the first half acoustic and the second electric. Many walked out (I stayed, I'd paid!). To the folk purists, it was a betrayal, to others it was exciting and innovative. I depends which camp you are in as to which CDs you buy and how you learn. Of course, the traditional style needs to be mastered first to acquire the skill to "take it further" otherwise it tends to be "bad playing". Even some of the traditional players are now frowned upon. Personally I always liked the playing of Jack Armstrong and Joe Hutton but that's my personal choice as I always preferred the sound and beauty of the tunes rather than the fact that the players fingers can move at the speed of light (am I the only person in the world that likes buttered peas and hates holey halfpenny?). :) That being said, I really liked the playing of Billy Pigg but accepted that he was very much an individual. Just enjoy the pipes and don't get hung up on this debate - much of it is "tongue in cheek" anyway (I hope). I'll probably be burned in effigy after this post! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Richard York" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "NSP Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please Oh dear - that wasn't what I meant at all! Just an honest appeal for information which seems to be common knowledge to many, but obscure to me, and I gather, others too. Because I don't know who is truly Outside The Pale I might get the wrong idea, and start thinking wrong things about absolute heroes/heroines. I really didn't mean to muddy the water, but I would just be interested to know who is considered a good role model, and, yes, who is considered not so, by those who have a lot more knowledge of the nsp's than I do, so that at least I can make up my own mind. I don't promise to be orthodox, and I reserve the right to my own musical judgement, but it would be useful to know, and might save a lot of time, and perhaps money in buying CD's. I have to admit that when people come up to me at events where I'm working & want to know about playing particular early instruments, I have been known to quietly suggest certain outlets which might be better treated with caution, just to save them wasting their money, but I'm not going to stand up & shout about it. My off-list reference was to save anyone having to Name Names in public, which would be embarrassing. I hope this isn't offending anyone, or getting into more politics. Music doesn't deserve that. Richard. So a whispering campaign? Is this really a good idea? Francis On 28 Aug 2008, at 10:14, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One frustration in the choyte debate was the "we-all-know-who-we're-talking-about" bit - we don't all know, if we're not of the tribe yet. If anyone cares to let me know, on- or off-list, who is Kosher & who isn't, it would be most helpful, and I'll listen with interest to the recordings. Include me in copy too pleez. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
There are indeed plenty of things done to folk music... traditional, call it what you will... which I hate, but the meaning I take from him is that at least it gets played, and some versions of it will survive, rather than not happening at all. There will be experiments, some of which lots of us hate, and they might well die off. Think of all those tune books where you take perhaps 3 tunes and let the rest go as rubbish! At least those 3 get to live in your hands. Some people loved Steeleye Span in the 70's, some hated it, some now feel it's very dated, some are probably just finding it. Some of the tunes got picked up & given different treatment later by others... It's a bit like language evolving really. (How many of us use the word "incontinently" to mean "suddenly" any more?) As Winnie the Pooh said, (I think) "That's what I think, anyhow. But I expect I'm wrong." Richard. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Er, not sure I agree with this one... -Original Message- From: Richard York [[2]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please Greetings! The celebrated Mr Carthy also said, "The only thing wrong you can do with folk music is not to play it." :-) Richard. Hi all Chris B wrote:- Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please This is probably heresy to some, but I think it's arguable that Clough's was only one possible way of playing and the one most approved of at the time. there may be more. There is a difference between "bad" and "different" isn't there? As between "wrong" and "not to my taste" or "not in my tradition". I'll add a quote from Martin Carthy "Tradition moves, tradition progresses and is not a pile of stones." Yours in blissful choyting. Ian Bartlett P.S. Any luck in defining a folk instrument yet? Very quiet on that front I note. To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tchuning
No, it's a sort of sail, hence "Lugger". Isn't it? Or was that a boat with big ears sticking out each side to catch the wind? Richard. Ormston, Chris wrote: And here was me thinking that the 'lug' might be an ancient tool fashioned from a curlew's beak by the early Christian monks of Lindisfarne to tune their Northumbrian pipes, or perhaps a form of sheep tick that the shepherds had somehow domesticated and taught to carve out the fingerholes while they played their pipes to their flocks. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 August 2008 13:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning Dear Sam, The 'lugs' are a pair of devices situated on either side of the head as in ' If yi divent shurrup aal giv yi a belt across the lugs.'?You may need to look it up in a Geordie Dictionary. I am afraid that NSP's come with a bit of local jargon known as 'Geordie' since they were developed in Northumberland and Durham. Colin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:05 Subject: Re: [NSP] tchuning Hi Colin,What is the 'lug'?Sam> If you can be bothered to read this after all that has been going on it > concerns the use of the 'lug' to tune the chanter and little theory. > > > The notes to be tuned are the three that make up the Major Triad or > Doh,MeSo,or Tonic,major Third and Fifth intervals. > > > Start with the G drone on and do the G,B and D notes. > > > With the D drone on and the G switched off, tune in D, F# and A. > > > With the A drone switched on ( tuning bead on G drone) and the rest off, > tune in A,C# and E. > > > This leaves you with the middle C which is tuned as? fourth interval > against the original G drone. > > > That is the limit to which you can tune the chanter as if you try to tune > against E for those E minor tunes you will find the middle B too sharp for > the rest. Strangely enough the E note does not seem to be too sharp for > ! the D an A drones to play against. This is called Mean tuning and any > tuning issues can be corrected by means of bag pressure. Jack Armstrong > was adept at this as I found out when I was asked to service his pipes > where the chanter needed coaxing to play in tune. > > > If you want a tune to test your chanter try Carnaval of Venice which > covers all those middle notes. > > > Cheers, > > > Colin > > > ? > > > > AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the > move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
[NSP] Re: tchuning... lugs
..er, sorry, my sail contribution was entirely facetious. Bad habit. :-) More seriously, isn't the lug as in projection simply taken from the lug for ear? Rather like the use of grease nipples, a body name adapted to something which does the same job. Come to that, and less politely, pintles on boats, to hold the rudder in place. Richard. Ian Lawther wrote: As the Oxford Dictionary defines "lug" as a "Projection on an object by which it may be carried, fixed in place, etc" I would have thought the adaptation to ears (as projections on the head) would be fairly common throughout the English speaking world. Ian colin wrote: Isn't that the fellow from Walker's crisps sitting in that boat? Lugs (or expanded to lug-holes) is a common expression in Liverpool as well (as in "pin back your lug-holes" meaning to listen and pay attention). having Googled a little (as a rest from choyting) it varies from a Scottish word to a cockney one if it was confined to industrial areas, maybe our roving shipworkers carried it around the country. However, it's also down as from the Shetland Isles (lug=ear) in the Shetland Dictionary. Also claimed by Norfolk with the addition of the word "luggy" as meaning deaf. Not really the height of either industry or shipbuilding there, I think. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Richard York" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "NSP group" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning No, it's a sort of sail, hence "Lugger". Isn't it? Or was that a boat with big ears sticking out each side to catch the wind? Richard. Ormston, Chris wrote: And here was me thinking that the 'lug' might be an ancient tool fashioned from a curlew's beak by the early Christian monks of Lindisfarne to tune their Northumbrian pipes, or perhaps a form of sheep tick that the shepherds had somehow domesticated and taught to carve out the fingerholes while they played their pipes to their flocks. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 August 2008 13:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: tchuning Dear Sam, The 'lugs' are a pair of devices situated on either side of the head as in ' If yi divent shurrup aal giv yi a belt across the lugs.'?You may need to look it up in a Geordie Dictionary. I am afraid that NSP's come with a bit of local jargon known as 'Geordie' since they were developed in Northumberland and Durham. Colin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:05 Subject: Re: [NSP] tchuning Hi Colin,What is the 'lug'?Sam> If you can be bothered to read this after all that has been going on it > concerns the use of the 'lug' to tune the chanter and little theory. > > > The notes to be tuned are the three that make up the Major Triad or > Doh,MeSo,or Tonic,major Third and Fifth intervals. > > > Start with the G drone on and do the G,B and D notes. > > > With the D drone on and the G switched off, tune in D, F# and A. > > > With the A drone switched on ( tuning bead on G drone) and the rest off, > tune in A,C# and E. > > > This leaves you with the middle C which is tuned as? fourth interval > against the original G drone. > > > That is the limit to which you can tune the chanter as if you try to tune > against E for those E minor tunes you will find the middle B too sharp for > the rest. Strangely enough the E note does not seem to be too sharp for > ! the D an A drones to play against. This is called Mean tuning and any > tuning issues can be corrected by means of bag pressure. Jack Armstrong > was adept at this as I found out when I was asked to service his pipes > where the chanter needed coaxing to play in tune. > > > If you want a tune to test your chanter try Carnaval of Venice which > covers all those middle notes. > > > Cheers, > > > Colin > > > ? > > > > AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the > move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- The information contained in this e-mail may be sub
[NSP] Re: Peacock's Wylam Away
Thanks, both John & Barry, for confirming what seemed logically right! I didn't have the FARNE link, so that's a bonus. Best wishes, Richard. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those without the facsimile handy, the relevant page in FARNE is [2]http://www.asaplive.com/archive/detail.asp?id=K0101303 My reading of the suspect half bar is also dB/c/d/B/ analogously to 2 bars before. It looks like a mistake by the engraver to me. I'd like to add my thanks to the Chantry rescuers as well - a heroic job! John -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.asaplive.com/archive/detail.asp?id=K0101303 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Peacock's Wylam Away
.. and of course I never, never ever, not never at all, make such errors in my own music writing. Not at all, at all R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is something similar in the 1st half bar of Keelman Ower Land. There it is dc/B/A/G, with the NM version putting a triplet on the c/B/A/, to get the time right, but making it harder to play. I feel dc/B/A/G/ is likelier. It would be easy in a MS to not quite take the second beam on the semiquavers far enough. So such typos are common. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Fool, fearing to tread, aka Peacock marks
Thanks, both Julia & Chris. Pretty much like lots of C18/19 marks on music then! And in the case of a run of semi-quavers on the nsp I suppose it also has the possibility of "do nothing extra" ? Best wishes, Richard. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 22 Sep 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: We don't really know what Peacock meant by the trill marks. It's even been suggested that Mr Wright, the publisher, was wholly responsible for the transcriptions, and, not being a piper, gave it his best shot. To Chris' comments I'd just like to add that the original title was "A Favourite Collection of Tunes with Variations adapted for the Northumberland Small PIpes Violin or Flute" ..so presumably some of the markings arguably refer to these other instruments, for which they would be eminently suitable. We believe that Peacock played the fiddle. I think it was Ian Bain (the Bewick expert) who suggested that Mr Wright did the transcription, and his opinion was that the blocks would have been produced elsewhere - I think Birmingham or London, rather than the North-East. Early in my publishing career I wrote that the trill sign could be interpreted as an inverted mordent, which was my understanding at the time. At the risk of raising yet another firestorm, I now don't think this was either correct or appropriate. I would follow Chris's advice, or just take most of these marks to mean that "something" (to the performer's taste) should be done at these points. Hope this helps Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Fool, fearing to tread, aka Peacock marks
Dunno for sure, but when I was editing, largely self-taught, a MS I found of an early 18th century gent's favourite "flute" (i.e. recorder) tunes, he had a whole plethora of marks, spirals, cirles with dots, the lot. I looked in the "Division Recorder Book" for help, where there are some suggestions, and also talked to one or two people, and it all confirmed what's already been said - a) it's not certain what each particular person may have meant by these decorations - and b) as has already been suggested, music at that time was perhaps more free in its interpretation, so whether you played the same decorations or even the same notes each time depended on what mood you were in. Best wishes, Richard. Gibbons, John wrote: The Henry Atkinson MS has several commonly notated ornaments - * A pair of vertical lines over a note: || * A pair of diagonal lines over a note: \\ * A pair of diagonal lines through the vertical of a note. These are easy to distinguish and are often used together, eg in the Reed House Rant. What did they mean? Does anyone know, or was it ambiguous then? John -Original Message- From: Philip Gruar [[1]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 21:33 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [NSP] Re: Fool, fearing to tread, aka Peacock marks - Original Message - From: [3]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "NSP group" [4] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:09 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Fool, fearing to tread, aka Peacock marks Otherwise you could apply the "leavitoutement" - an obscure but very useful early music ornament, which to the best of my knowledge was either invented by, or at least publicised by, Philip Gruar in his early music manifestation. I wish I had invented it - I certainly use it regularly. Unfortunately I can't lay claim to it, or to any of the others (like squeakement - an ornament very well-known to pipers) which have long been going the rounds among people who regularly have to cope with all the genuine French Baroque ornaments. Another one, "pegment sans appui" is perhaps better known to string-players. If it's of any use I'll add my early-music twopennorth. (note to other Baroque-music specialists out there - this is inevitably simplified and probably contentious, but I hope you'll agree with the broad gist) Although the French composers in particular were very precise in their notation of ornaments, often giving a table of what they all meant at the beginning of a publication, other composers were extremely vague. For example the little cross often found over notes in 18th century music frequently means just some indeterminate ornament - probably a short trill, but just as readily a mordent or whatever suits the music at that point. In the eighteenth century much more was usually left to the players' discretion, even in "classical" music (that is, not "traditional" or "folk") than later became the rule. SO - we don't need to search for an exact interpretation of the Peacock "trill" sign, and we probably don't have to take all the notes as absolute gospel either. To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Transporting pipes
A small-harp making friend of ours says from bitter experience that cases in the hold should withstand being dropped the 12 feet or so from the plane onto the concrete. It's happened with a number of his harps, & we've also heard of more than one concert harp, in heavy case, being simply pushed out of the back of the plane. Not trying to worry anyone here ... Good luck! Richard. the Red Goblin wrote: Hear, hear everything so far said about hand luggage ... .. but I'd agree with Neil's hard case instincts if there's ANY risk of pipes being consigned to the hold and, thus, the awesome destructive power of baggage-handling machines. Anyone who's ever witnessed a rucksack or ski/boot bag get snagged to a halt, by a strap or handle loop, on a luggage carousel belt (only to be pummelled mercilessly by the relentless tide of following suitcases) will have an inkling of what I mean. In this situation, whilst hard cases erode your weight allowance, I'd regard them as de rigueur. And the more resilient the better (e.g. fibre-glass probably stronger than wood). Nor forget to pay particular attention to cushioning the contents against prolonged mechanical vibration whilst in the hold (even to using dirty laundry on the homeward leg ;). To assess the risk of them not being allowed as hand-luggage, of course, you'd be wise to hit the web and check out the policies of all carriers with whom you expect to travel. Little things like oil, for instance, may violate anti-terrorist bottle rules and require forethought in packing them so as not to jeopardise your pipes' hand-luggage status. Oh, and I loved Matt's gun-case idea which vividly reminded me of a tip for travellers obliged to consign valuable equipment to the hold - "Secure your checked bags -- fly with a gun" (http://www.travelsuperlink.com/forum/topic.php?id=26). All perfectly serious, I assure you ! :p HTH, Steve Collins All hail the much-aliased Law of Universal Cussedness (NPL version) ... Law: In any set of circumstances, where more than one outcome is equiprobable, the least beneficial will always result Lemma: The above Law will always apply except when, by appearing not to apply, it will, in the end, do you greater dirt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Over the hill?
The BBC radio news Quiz has just referred to a test of men's declining powers, correlated with age. It seems we start to seriously go downhill after 39. (Not much hope for me then.) The test was to see how rapidly they could keep tapping their index fingers over a period of 10 seconds, a vital skill for any man of the world. One wonders how the test would vary if they took a sample of NSpipers? And does it mean that starting to play in my mid-50's I don't stand a chance with repeated notes? Yours in senility, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: "Maa Bonny Lad"
I know little enough about this particular song, but it's certainly amazing how many Homeric or other Greek mythological references turn up in apparently quite unrelated storytelling traditions collected much more recently, so wouldn't be at all offput by any Homeric strain here. Regards, Richard. Barry Say wrote: I think Chips has given one of the most enlightening inputs to this discussion. On 31 Oct 2008 at 13:51, Chips Lanier wrote: Actually, the first time I saw the title "The Keelman Ower Land", I assumed it was a tune about a waterman who had died/drowned. Growing up near the sea and around fishermen, I had heard the legend of when a sailor/fisherman dies, he is to walk over the land and away from the sea with an oar over his shoulder until someone asks what it was, and then he had arrived at paradise. This links us into an entirely different folk tradition - story telling. Surely somewhere on the web there must be more info but I cant imagine how to start looking. My grandmother came from a fishing family in North Shields but my links to that side are fairly tenuous. Can anyone provide any information ehich is rather more recent than Homer. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concert pitch V traditional pitch
um, if that lot is a "wild stab in the dark", what do you count as precision? ... on second thoughts don't tell me, I'd never follow it! :-) Best wishes, Richard. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone please tell me if with concert pitch A=440Hz what is the frequency of A with traditional pitch? If it is that simple! As with all things wikipedia, I'd take this with a huge pinch of salt, but it is a starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament#Calculating_absolute_frequencies For an equal temperament C scale where A=440Hz: F = 440*(2^((45-49)/12)) = 349.228Hz F# = 440*(2^((46-49)/12)) = 369.994Hz 'Traditional' pitch would be somewhere in this range (corresponding to the G finger on the chanter) For arguments sake, let's take 20 cents as 'traditional' .. feel free to pick another value ... 20 cents sharp in this range would be: (369.994-349.228)*0.2 +349.228 = 353.381Hz and this gives you the root note of a 'traditional' pitch chanter. You then plug this frequency back in to the formula as the reference frequency and it is now the 47th note in the scale (G) and you want the 49th (A) Piper's A = 353.381*(2((49-47)/12)) = 396.657Hz This ignores the fact that the pipes are not usually tuned in exact equal temperament.. but that would be my wild stab in the dark.. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re piper's pitch v. concert pitch
I risk being shot down for ignorance, but is it not the case that the GHB's were traditionally a shade away from Bb concert pitch, and have now come to roost on Bb as such for similar reasons? ( I just wish they wouldn't play them alongside brass bands, which tend to have a different temperament, but that's my problem!) Richard. Francis Wood wrote: Hello Peter and others. I agree absolutely with your suggestion and would advocate the use of standard pitches only, whether D, F, F# or G. The course of instrumental pitch is a complex and controversial one. Unfortunately, the history of woodwind and brasswind making is plagued by examples of instruments whose pitch differed from the prevailing one because individual makers or groups of makers thought it was a good idea at the time. These instruments are not representative of their period and are now curiosities. The difference between F and F +20 cents is sufficiently wide to sound musically unpleasant without providing any pleasing tonal advantage. Many people like the tone of chanters raised by the full semitone to F# and I am one of them. This is of course equivalent to the old G and is very close to the pitch of original chanters made by the Reids whose design forms the basis of all subsequent NSP making. This traditional pitch is heard to great effect in the wonderful playing of Adrian Schofield. I would be very surprised if NSP makers did not eventually move to the standard F that you suggest. Chanters in other standard pitches are perfectly acceptable and seem to provoke no controversy. Francis On 12 Nov 2008, at 20:17, P DUNN wrote: Regarding the question of pitch, it is all a matter of whether one is playing on one's own or playing with others. If playing solo, it doesn't really matter what the pitch is. The problem comes when trying to play with others. Then, it's just a nuisance that the pipes aren't in true F. Personally, I think that pipe makers should grasp the nettle and start to make pipes consistently in F, then they could be a true transposing instrument. Peter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Oil and health
Does this suggest that perhaps the famous Clough detached style was caused by only wanting brief contact with said keys, then, and for the sake of conformity the other notes followed suit? (Ducks, runs, hides. etc.) ;-) Richard. Chris Ormston wrote: I used to get itchy hands from the brass on Tom Clough's pipes - nasty cheapo Reid things that had poisoned successive generations of the Clough family since the early 19th Century! The health & safety conscious amongst you will be relieved to hear that they're now encased in bubble wrap and never see the light of day :-( Chris -Original Message- From: Paul Gretton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 November 2008 18:03 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Oil and health Be afraid! Be very afraid! But if you're into this kind of thing, you might also like to take some time to worry about percutaneous copper and zinc poisoning from the brass of your keys (assuming you have one of those nasty cheapo sets - yuk! I prefer solid gold). I myself never play the pipes without wearing at least three pairs of rubber gloves. Natural latex only, of course! Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: Richard York [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 November 2008 18:41 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Oil and health Hello all. I'm wary of opening a debate which could possibly re-visit too many personal differences, but would welcome any bio-chemically-minded comment on something I found recently. A leaflet we have describes all sorts of personal & household products with natural alternatives, and the advantages & disadvantages of each - with an obvious spin towards the green/natural alternatives, which appeals to me emotionally at least. It included the statement that petroleum-based things had carcinogenic properties, and didn't recommend them at all. Admittedly it was discussing what it politely called intimate personal lubricant, so it's referring to contact with more mucous membranes than are generally encountered by the average chanter... but it's often commented that using different oils on your chanter does affect your hand skin, so it does obviously penetrate the player's skin. And it's possible to spend quite a few hours plugged into the pipes over the years! Any comments, preferably polite, welcome :-) Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] OT notes inegale origin?
Reference was recently made here to the baroque French notes inegale - I'm just listening to Radio 3's Early Music Show on Lully. I don't know if they'll mention it, but wonder if the famous story about his untimely demise due to overzealous bashing stick on floor to keep time (resulting gangrenous foot injury killed him) may account for the inegale-ity - If he was writing dance music 'twixt injury and death, his step would have hardly been egale... Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re-Images reversed or not
Dunno about ladies, but I believe that gents have the buttons arranged so the coat/whatever hangs allowing you to be able to draw a sword - kept on the left - with the right hand. Or is this one of those moments when the bells & Klaxons go off as I present yet another urban myth? (It's also why a gent stands with lady on his right in dances, so as not to accidentally amputate, or at least annoy, lower feminine portions with a carelessly swinging sword) Best wishes, Richard. colin wrote: Gosh, some interesting points here today. Anyone know when that actual rule of placing buttons differently for men and women originated? I suppose one would have to check both sexes to see if they are both reversed. This topic comes up on quite a regular basis regarding prints of the hurdy gurdy as well - you unscrew the handle if you play it left handed :0 Unless it's constructed that way, of course with a reverse thread. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Dave S" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: [NSP] Images of reverse or not I have the idea that if one looks at the buttons on coats and waistcoats ( if present) one can solve the problem of whether the image is true or not. Ladies have buttons on the left and Gents on the right. good spotting Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: was Jimmy Allen, now copyright
Hi,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure simply recording it does confer
copyright, or at least has in the past, justly or not.
When various people collected folk singers earlier in the C20th, I
believe it's still an issue which rankles that by doing so they did
exactly that.
I was told that there's one huge collection of traditional material
which apparently at least recently had exactly this issue, & probably
still does; sorry, I can't remember for sure which so won't name any.
Old ladies & gents innocently sang their songs into the nice gentleman's
microphone, only to find that he now owned their songs.
I think Barry, that it goes on for 75 yrs after the owner's death -
certainly does in the case of composers.
The EFDSS library would supply more details.
Best wishes,
Richard.
Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote:
There's a further topic for discussion. What does anyone claim "Trad
C/C" means? I suspect there are people on this list who will disagree
with me, but I think the statement 'Trad C/C' is usually a nonsense
statement. It's either one or the other. It can't be both. Copyright
has to belong to someone.
By calling something 'trad', in effect, a person is saying they do not
believe there is anyone who has copyright in it. They aren't expecting
to pay royalties for using it, or that someone will leap out of the
woodwork who can claim them. A different copyright exists in the
actual recording, but you do not give yourself copyright in a piece of
music that comes from somewhere else just by finding it on a grubby
piece of lined paper, hearing it in a session or playing it. You can
only get such a copyright by tracing who wrote it, finding them or
their executors, being able to show that their copyright has not
expired and persuading them to sell it to you.
As for Jimmy Allen, one cannot prove that it was ancient from a
negative, but it does look as though there was no one around in the
1960s or 1970s who claimed that they or their ancestor wrote it. If
this reasoning were valid, which it isn't, it would be persuasive that
if anyone once wrote it, they died before about 1900. It doesn't,
though, unfortunately, provide any direct link to someone who died in
1810.
Dru
On 15 Jan 2009, at 20:18, Ian Lawther wrote:
Copyright control(led)? Often abbreviated to "Cop. Con"
Ian
malcra...@aol.com wrote:
On the vinyl itself it is not directly attributed, other than:
{All other material Trad C/C)
?
Not sure what C/C means
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[NSP] Re: Copyright issues
Michael Jackson's THAT strapped for cash???... or just that mean? What happened to those nice American ladies who wrote it all those years ago, then? Richard julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: On 16 Jan 2009, julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: But here's a PS: "Publishing" includes typesetting more than one copy and handing it round to friends: writing out a copyright tune by hand, copying it by any means and distributing that:course music of any sort: workshops: and so on, and so on. Yes, really - I'm not kidding. In practice we get away with it, but anyone who does any of these things without specific permission should be aware of what they are doing. One day a litigious composer / copyright holder could come back and get shirty. And don't copy out Happy Birthday for distribution: people in the States have been prosecuted by the copyright holder (Michael Jackson) for doing just that. Anyone who *really* needs to know the potential danger areas in Northumbrian music of which I am presently aware is welcome to contact me - offlist. Cheers Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Copyright issues
... and let's not even lift small corner of the lid over the hell which is the Public Entertainment Licence :-( Richard [1]julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: On 16 Jan 2009, [2]malcra...@aol.com wrote: How does copyright effect performance.? Especaillay if an enterance charge is made, For all "performances", paid or otherwise, and this includes sessions in pubs, someone is supposed to sit there writing down everything that is played. This list is then submitted to PRS along with 5% of the takings at a paid event, and the royalties are distributed to any registered copyright holders with the residue going to CC. And a non- paying event gets charged for any copyright tunes. Some folk festivals and sessions have already been clobbered by this. In practice, well. you can imagine the reaction of the average session musician - it doesn't take many fingers! At best, all tunes suddenly become "trad." or For example at a funeral? I am uncertain of the position in regards to "church" and / or "private" events - which your example could be classified as. I think there may be a dispensation. And then there's when does a private party become a house session, or house concert. Please, just don't go there!! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:julia@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:malcra...@aol.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Jimmy Allen again
Back to this chestnut, before MsTickell's award takes the airwaves up :) Especially since Colin Hill posted the link http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/old-time-music/midi/005200.MID to that amazing rendition on accompaniment with bit of tune showing through , it's been occasionally surfacing again & again in my head. (Hmmm, thanks, Colin!!!) I'm prepared to get flayed on this, as I'm nowhere near as experienced in specifically Northumbrian music as most of you, but I suddenly began to wonder - how much is it Northumbrian shaped? Scholarly people have analysed, for example with Irish music, what makes a characteristically typical tune in a particular vernacular. I haven't got time to pursue it to that length, but I'm just humming a few other tunes from the tradition in my head, piping tunes especially, and wondering if it fits the same mould of characteristic figures of rhythm or note movement, or whether indeed it feels more like the sort of tunes which were created around the 60's/70's folk revival time - excellent tunes too, many of 'em. Just a thought. Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: A light aside......
Haven't had Mr Allen, specifically, but along with all the interesting life-enhancing chemical offers we've had repeated adverts from a printing firm offering not just business cards, but "Free Backside Printing" too. ..Who would you show? Richard. julia@nspipes.co.uk wrote: I am currently getting recurrent spam mail from a "Mr Allen" offering an idyllic lifestyle it would seem that Jimmy's spirit is alive & kicking, as I bet that's what he offered to the various ladies he...erencountered. Is anyone else getting the same offer?? Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Am I tone deaf?
I haven't yet had time to play with the site, but this relates to a method which it was claimed could teach even "tone deaf" people to sing in tune... and presumably to hear to tune drones. The teacher plays a note, the victim sings what they think is the note. Teacher plays what they actually sang (without criticism!), and asks them to repeat it... process repeats until teacher & victim are both on the same note. This happens over a series of days. When the victim can reliably sing the note first time it's time to move on and extend the process. I tried it only once, on a headteacher I was working with who couldn't sing in tune in assembly, but insisted on trying. Loudly. Other things kept getting in the way of regular daily sessions, which are all important, but we did see some improvement. Perhaps an interactive website/device with a mic could do the same thing... -st Be- -she wi--es Richard. rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: .. Or rather "How good is my differentiation of tones?" A friend pointed this site out to me the other day: http://tonometric.com/adaptivepitch/ It measures how you differentiate between two tones and whether you can hear which is higher and lower. If you have ever described yourself as tone deaf, have a go .. then really concentrate and have another go .. The test is adaptive so the better you are the harder it gets. Once you're into the realm if 2 or 3 Hz, that means being able to tell the difference betweeen different tempered scales. There are a bunch of other related things on rhythm and musical memory but ths one struck me as being particularly relevent to piper's. If you lack confidence in tuning or don't know where to start, it's a very simple way of understanding (and improving) what you can hear. cheers Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Am I tone deaf?
..sorry, serves me right for trying to be clever & represent a set of random pitches on the "best wishes" bit - it comes out all wrongly spaced... (Looked OK when I did it!) R. Richard York wrote: I haven't yet had time to play with the site, but this relates to a method which it was claimed could teach even "tone deaf" people to sing in tune... and presumably to hear to tune drones. The teacher plays a note, the victim sings what they think is the note. Teacher plays what they actually sang (without criticism!), and asks them to repeat it... process repeats until teacher & victim are both on the same note. This happens over a series of days. When the victim can reliably sing the note first time it's time to move on and extend the process. I tried it only once, on a headteacher I was working with who couldn't sing in tune in assembly, but insisted on trying. Loudly. Other things kept getting in the way of regular daily sessions, which are all important, but we did see some improvement. Perhaps an interactive website/device with a mic could do the same thing... -st Be- -she wi--es Richard. rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: .. Or rather "How good is my differentiation of tones?" A friend pointed this site out to me the other day: http://tonometric.com/adaptivepitch/ It measures how you differentiate between two tones and whether you can hear which is higher and lower. If you have ever described yourself as tone deaf, have a go .. then really concentrate and have another go .. The test is adaptive so the better you are the harder it gets. Once you're into the realm if 2 or 3 Hz, that means being able to tell the difference betweeen different tempered scales. There are a bunch of other related things on rhythm and musical memory but ths one struck me as being particularly relevent to piper's. If you lack confidence in tuning or don't know where to start, it's a very simple way of understanding (and improving) what you can hear. cheers Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Halsway success!
Thanks again, Alan and Christine, for organising it. It was my first event of this sort, and hugely worth while. I'm still relatively new to nsp's and still gratefully borrowing other people's sets, but have been on plenty of musical teaching events, both as a student and teacher, and the teaching here was of a really high order. As was the friendly atmosphere. And I'm gutted that I didn't book to stay for Sunday night - I'll know better next time! Richard. Alan Corkett wrote: Dear All Just a quick thank you to all those who came this year to contribute to the thumping great successful weekend piping course that it turned out to be, including an amazing Sunday bonus playaround on the end. Christine and I were very moved to receive a public thank for hosting ten years of these events and hope that we can look forward to many more. We much appreciate you support Alan & Christine Corkett. PS We are taking £60 deposits for already for places at next year's weekend on 5-8 March 2010. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
Some years ago I met a man who was responsible for some work on the musicians carvings in Beverley Minster, most famous of course being the pipers. His quandary was whether to simply clean them up as they were, or to restore them to what the Victorians had imposed on them, mistakes and all, or to try to restore them to what he thought the medieval carvers had intended, though that last was now very impossible to do with any certainty, given changes in their condition over time, so he'd be imposing on them. And whatever he did would be right for some people, wrong for others, and whatever he did they'd never be as they once used to be. Or he could simply leave them to fall to bits by themselves. Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: <...> There is much room for personal interpretation on top of this basic style difference. Letting people hear these differences is important. As for so-called "bad habits" these must surely be/have been pleasing to the players themselves at some point and are therefore valid in their own right even if others may find them displeasing. Copying these personal idiosyncracies is one thing, and each player can decide this for themselves, ignoring the regional accent completely is another thing altogether! I would say go for it Colin, a person with your background can not help but make a valuable contribution to the body of piping knowledge. As aye Anthony To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
In a way, that's the least important part of the story :) It struck me at the time what a parallel it was with our treatment of music which comes to us from before our time, or at least before deadly accurate sound recording, whether it's medieval or anything else. But to answer your question, Tim, if I remember aright, he treated them each variously according to how much was evident from the original form, how much damage the dear Victorians had done, and in what condition and how stable each was. Perhaps that's relevant too. Best wishes, Richard. tim rolls BT wrote: Hi Richard, Don't leave us hanging what did he choose to do? Tim - Original Message - From: "Richard York" To: "NSP group" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:10 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes Some years ago I met a man who was responsible for some work on the musicians carvings in Beverley Minster, most famous of course being the pipers. His quandary was whether to simply clean them up as they were, or to restore them to what the Victorians had imposed on them, mistakes and all, or to try to restore them to what he thought the medieval carvers had intended, though that last was now very impossible to do with any certainty, given changes in their condition over time, so he'd be imposing on them. And whatever he did would be right for some people, wrong for others, and whatever he did they'd never be as they once used to be. Or he could simply leave them to fall to bits by themselves. Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: <...> There is much room for personal interpretation on top of this basic style difference. Letting people hear these differences is important. As for so-called "bad habits" these must surely be/have been pleasing to the players themselves at some point and are therefore valid in their own right even if others may find them displeasing. Copying these personal idiosyncracies is one thing, and each player can decide this for themselves, ignoring the regional accent completely is another thing altogether! I would say go for it Colin, a person with your background can not help but make a valuable contribution to the body of piping knowledge. As aye Anthony To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 - Release Date: 03/11/09 08:28:00
[NSP] Re: was Re: First 30 tunes
Hi Anthony. I'm sorry this is several steps late, I've only just got to read the latest batch. Tim's comment was right, really, I wasn't intending getting too hooked up on the masonry, my story was meant only to illustrate the difficulty of treating material which has passed through many hands before the present, each of which may have changed it, or not, according to their own tastes, and of judging what's now valid, or desirable, in the course of those changes & the light of present tastes. Thanks for the CD recommendation. I'm another Deep South... well, deepest East Midlands-ish!... musician - any recommendations of source would be gratefully accepted, please, anyone. Best wishes, Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: Sorry to butt in folks, especially since I'm not sure what the exact context is! As the subject matter is the First 30 tunes the relevance of Victorian / Medieval masonry escapes me. I do get the impression, Richard, that you might be regarding these tunes as treasures from an earlier age. Let me reassure you that many of these pieces were still being played by a strong cohort of traditional musicians in north Northumberland in a style which pleased them and fitted their needs extremely well. It is the lack of appreciation of this and the fact that they played their "reels" with a phrasing that was neither march, polka or reel. This pulse fitted the dance step of choice, the Rant, so perfectly that they referred to the tunes themselves as rants. This was far more than a social pastime for the likes of Will Atkinson whose payment from "The Tanner Hops" made his, Bella's and their 10 bairns lives, much more bearable. It is the glossing over of this unique heritage that drives me to bring it to a wider audience. If you haven't already done so buy Will Atkinson's wonderful CD and you'll see what I mean. Regards Anthony --- On Wed, 11/3/09, Richard York wrote: From: Richard York Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes To: "NSP group" Date: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009, 8:48 PM In a way, that's the least important part of the story :) It struck me at the time what a parallel it was with our treatment of music which comes to us from before our time, or at least before deadly accurate sound recording, whether it's medieval or anything else. But to answer your question, Tim, if I remember aright, he treated them each variously according to how much was evident from the original form, how much damage the dear Victorians had done, and in what condition and how stable each was. Perhaps that's relevant too. Best wishes, Richard. tim rolls BT wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Richard, >> >> Don't leave us hanging what did he choose to do? >> >> >> Tim >> - Original Message - From: "Richard York" <[1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> >> To: "NSP group" <[2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:10 PM >> Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes >> >> >>> >>> Some years ago I met a man who was responsible for some work on the >>> musicians carvings in Beverley Minster, most famous of course being the >>> pipers. >>> His quandary was whether to simply clean them up as they were, or to >>> restore them to what the Victorians had imposed on them, mistakes and >>> all, or to try to restore them to what he thought the medieval carvers >>> had intended, though that last was now very impossible to do with any >>> certainty, given changes in their condition over time, so he'd be >>> imposing on them. And whatever he did would be right for some people, >>> wrong for others, and whatever he did they'd never be as they once used >>> to be. >>> Or he could simply leave them to fall to bits by themselves. >>> >>> Richard. >>> >>> Anthony Robb wrote: >>>> >>>> <...> >>>>There is much room for personal interpretation on top of this basic >>>>style difference. Letting people hear these differences is important. >>>>As for so-called "bad habits" these must surely be/have been pleasing >>>>to the players themselves at some point and are therefore valid in >>>>their own right even if others may find them displeasing. Copying these >>>>personal idiosyncracies is one thing, and
[NSP] Re: Canny Shepherd Laddies o' the Hills... back to the music
Wonderful! Which leads me to offer this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q28ikQaPFK4 OK, it's fiddle-orientated rather than either sheep or smallpipes, but don't you think there's scope here for a new category in piping contests? Or perhaps simply a nice variant on the advice to practise with a metronome. Richard Ian Lawther wrote: Anthony's CD and emails here about it have made me nostalgic for my visits to Rothbury Festival and perhaps the romanticised view I, as a southern towny, have of living in rural Northumberland, through songs like "Canny Shepherd Laddies o' the Hills" that Hannah Hutton used to sing. In the midst of this nostalgia a relative sent me a link to a Youtube video of what shepherd really get up to with their sheepenjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] When did a rant become a Rant?
I am enjoying playing "Sir Charles Rant" - or "Sir Charle's Rant" - in Peacock, but the title is interesting. It obviously isn't a rant under the various definitions discussed here recently, since it's in 6/8. For those without Peacock who like words to rhythms, it doesn't refer to tomato soup, gobstoppers, or anything like that, but rather seems to say "Rant? this is no rant is no rant is no rant" etc. So when, please, did the word come to specifically mean That Dance, and what did it signify earlier? (Or was Sir Charles just an always angry sort of chap?) I know that Jigge/Gigge/Gigue/Jig etc went through a whole variety of meanings between Elizabethan Theatre, baroque salon, and much more, before coming to mean, well, what I'd call the tune Sir Charles Rant. I apologise if there's some note in the back of a book/email on this list which explains all, and I haven't seen the obvious. With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: When did a rant become a Rant?
Thanks Matt & all. Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: Some strathspeys have 'Rant' in the title also, e.g. Rothiemurchus' Rant, Carrick's Rant. What's being referred to here is a more specifically regional use. I've been wondering if some of the common-time tunes in Peacock (Cuckold, Cut & Dry, Passing By, Jackey L) pass the soup test, and might be used for dancing, or are they purely for inner dancing, with their 'lilts and pauses'? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not again!
Welcome back, Anthony. And "here here" to Colin for your comments. I was also there in the 70's, and people like the Albion Band, Steeleye Span, and others further out on their own electric limbs were doing things to folk music which would have had the old boys like William Kimber turning in their graves, and some was good, some awful, and it all depended on your own taste anyway. - Kimber, the Headington Morris anglo-concertina player who Cecil Sharp encountered, whose dad told him "These are the notes you play, these and no others. No fly notes." And there are still things being done to folk music, some of which I love, some I hate, but it's alive and kicking, and at a host of festivals you may see players in sessions their teens and twenties, playing with great dedication and with huge respect for the tradition which gave them the music. Very few people other than concertina-philes listen to William Kimber's recordings now. They're still there, and you can study them for the benefit of your concertina style if you wish, and anglo players still go back & hear him, and Scan Tester, to inform their style now. Darwin tends to win, over the Spanish Inquisition! Best wishes, Richard. colin wrote: Anthony, Many of us "older" ones on the list should remember the folk revival of the 60's when every pub had a folk club of some sort. This discussion very much reminds me of the selectiveness between them. There was a huge difference between the clubs - some being "pure traditional" with no instruments of any sort allowed and others with electric guitars etc. There was always tension between them as to what constituted "Folk". We decided to go with a "come along and sing whatever you like and have a good time". We got everything from Bob Dylan to Copper Family. One of our best nights was when a certain Mr Anderson played concertina and pipes (I still have most of the reel-to-reel recording of that night) and the reception was fantastic - many never having heard anything but my poor attempts to play the pipes before that (this was late 70's early 80's, I think). We never did solve the problems between the clubs but did agree to differ whilst (a) accepting that different people had different viewpoints and (b) agreeing that neither was "right" and accepting that, if one visited a "traditional" club, one left the guitar at home and also the opposite - that Tom Paxton fans could sit through several dozen Elizabethan verses without passing out from lack of beer because they couldn't get up to go to the bar. The audience decided what they liked. Lets all agree to differ and enjoy a wonderful instrument without becoming too pedantic. We're musicians first and academics second, surely? Let's not argue over which end of the egg to open :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Anthony Robb" To: "Dartmouth NPS" Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: [NSP] Not again! Hello again The number of people asking me to stay on the list has really touched me. I did leave but rejoined this morning as Iam convinced there is much still to be said; in no particular order: * It wasnat just Barry Sayas contribution that made me question my presence on the list. It came after some very unpleasant postings, which, for me, came as quite a shock. This list can be a source of genuine information and help to pipers everywhere but it will only succeed if opinions are sensitively voiced and readers take time to assimilate what has been said. * Surely it is contradictory to talk about aproper pipinga, amoving ona, apaths to perditiona and aconversiona and then claim rules are not being implied? * Why, when Kathryn Tickell has done more, single-handedly, to raise the profile of piping than the NPS has ever done, are some people on the list frightened to even mention her name? Could it be she doesnat follow the (non-existent) rules? Or perhaps it is her success? I have watched her inspire extremely talented bairns who might not have been switched on to Northumbrian piping if the some of the more vociferous elements on this list had been doing the teaching. Kathryn is one of the hardest working, talented and modest (yes modest!!) people I have ever worked with. * Last year I brought Chris Ormston in to teach some pipes lessons at The Sage Gateshead. His talent stood out but his single-minded approach was not what is required in an area of music that is meant to be fun and all-encompassing. I was hoping to carry on with my Northumbrian Band workshops. It would have been perfect for me if Chris had delivered what the people were paying for and been the popular choice to carry on with the pipes when Paul Knox had moved on. Caedmon participants are from all walks of life and pay good money for help in getting what they w
[NSP] Cut & Dry Dolly
To reveal myself as a Softie Southerner who probably pronounces Bath as Barth and thinks there are only wolves & polar bears North of Watford ;-) ...please, what is a "Cut & Dry Dolly"? It suggests corn stooks to me, but this might be the wrong tree entirely. Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut & Dry Dolly
Thanks Colin, I wondered if it was a straightforward as that, it was the "cut & dry" bit which for some reason sounded like something more may be intended. We even had corn dollies this far down towards the equator! And the practice of making them from the last few stalks standing, so that the spirit of the field or whatever has taken refuge in them, and that's what you break out over next year's sowing. Best wishes, Richard. rosspi...@aol.com wrote: Dear Richard, A corn dolly is something to do with the harvest that is made with corn stalks. All sorts of original and traditional designs have been made either as fertility symbols or to be worn on the lapel to show you were available for hire as a farm worker or were hired. The term 'cut and dry' obviously had more meaning in the 18th Cent or earlier when the tune was written and named but it just simply refers to the corn stalks and what they were used to make, apart from musical instruments blown in the mouth with holes burnt into the stalk and the end chewed to make a double beating reed like a direct forerunner to our own NSP chanter with its parallel bore. Cheers, Colin R -Original Message- From: Richard York To: NSP group Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 9:37 Subject: [NSP] Cut & Dry Dolly To reveal myself as a Softie Southerner who probably pronounces Bath as Barth and thinks there are only wolves & polar bears North of Watford ;-) ...please, what is a "Cut & Dry Dolly"? It suggests corn stooks to me, but this might be the wrong tree entirely. Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Yet another Oil query
There's neatsfoot, and there's liquid paraffin, and I know there are passionate supporters of each. Colin Dipper, the concertina maker & repairer of very high renown, uses camellia oil on the metal ends, where the keys pass through close-fitting holes, and reports that in 6 years of use it doesn't clog up the works, or build up sticky, or have any problems, and it's said to be fine for wood and leather too; it apparently doesn't give rise to the cleaning or discolouration problems of other veg or animal oils. It certainly works fine on my c.1880's anglo. Has anyone tried it on nsp's or anything else, or can offer any knowledge of it, please? With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: What oil to use?
Please may I suggest that whatever form the Great Reformed NPS takes, it should be inclusive rather than exclusive? The traditional ways of playing are necessarily vital. They have informed the instrument and the music, and they only survived because they are very good music; but there are people who play in various different ways, some of which are very attractive to many. It's mainly an amateur tradition. Music is kept alive only by its players, and they have to like what they're playing, otherwise they won't play it. Amateur - literally, in the best sense of the word: because we love it. If the society admits only a One True Way, I feel the tendency of the others will be to be aggrieved and simply write the Society off as stick-in-the-mud. These may include very good creative musicians. As Philip Gruar wisely said, it would be like the various forms of some churches fragmenting into ever tinier mutually exclusive groups, which is ultimately not good for the health of the whole faith, nor attractive to the rest of the onlooking world. If on t'other hand all creeds are admitted, the One True Way is accessible and promotable to a greater number of people, played by welcoming people who make it attractive, rather than grumpy and exclusive: it then stands much more chance of surviving. Presumably we do want people to want to join, in order to have future carriers of the instrument and its tradition. It may take some people a long time to come to the One True Way, and they may need to work through other stuff first to get there, (perhaps, shock horror, even a few choytes and slides), but at least they still may feel it's their society, including the players of the proper traditional music, rather than that miserable old lot who didn't want them, so bother their music too. Hopefully it's less inflammable, Francis, but it won't cure squeaks! Best wishes, Richard P.S. I meant to send this much earlier, sent it straight to Francis instead - sorry! Francis Wood wrote: Can anybody suggest a suitable oil to pour on these troubled waters? Ideally, it should be capable of spreading evenly and fairly as well as making the tone of everything seem much brighter. Should lubricate roughened areas. Capable of curing squeaks as well as growls, howls and other distressing noises. Must be totally non-imflammable. Non-oxidising would be nice too. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these "target" speeds here to my lack of nsp experience & skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD & metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1] wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
Thanks Richard - I agree with much of this, though I feel it needs to be the right speed, rather than just speed. I have played other instruments for various sorts of dance, both traditional & historical, for a long time now, where indeed the dancers need to be able to rely on the right energy. Sometimes this seems to be better provided by strong rhythm and time to allow them to move in an enjoyable way rather than feeling they're doing a sprint. I realise it all depends on the nature of the dance, and don't get the chance to play for Northumbrian dancers, or dances, which I realise may need quicker stepping, so I can't yet speak for this. Hence my question about the speeds given in Peacock - not criticism, just a question, I hasten to add. In the case of, for example, Morris, which I realise is a very different kettle of fish, more energy is often provided by playing slower, when they can make bigger movements, rather than keeping them to short quick steps which frustrates them. By the way, for those into nerdy counting, "All the Night I Lay with Jockey" is given a figure of 120 bpm in the new Peacock. Pauline Cato's "New Tyne Bridge" CD makes it sound relaxed and cheerful and quite fast enough at 116, Andy May's "Happy Hours" CD comes in at 108. I'm not suggesting it's a race. Both are great musically, both sound lively enough to my ear. Both, incidentally, are also obviously within their comfort zone, as discussed in an earlier string, and make it sound as if they're actually playing slower! All ye best, Richard Y Richard Shuttleworth wrote: Hello Richard, A distinction should be made between playing for dances and playing for pleasure. Dancers need the music to be quite fast otherwise they feel clumsy and uncoordinated; to move along and feel light on their feet they need speed - which the player has to provide. When the piper is simply playing for his/her own pleasure then the music can take over and set its own tempo. Cheers, Richard S. Richard York wrote: I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these "target" speeds here to my lack of nsp experience & skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD & metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1] wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: ear-learners vs note-learners
I always found that getting the group to put the instruments down, and sing the tune, as best the voice allows, until it's internalised; and only then encouraging people to play it with the same feel as they sang it, works better than some ways of ear teaching, and tends to get more spirit into it. Sometimes you need to sing it at a different pitch, just to be able to reach it, which is not ideal, but still helps. Richard Y Richard Hensold wrote: <> So, many teachers (such as Margaret) try to counter this by teaching tunes by ear in workshops. It's a good idea, but does it work? In other words, does it actually teach people to hear the subtleties they've learned to miss over the years? This is an honest question, and I certainly invite comment, but I'll start by doubting that it does work. I think once you've learned to hear music a certain way, the simple intuitive approach will no longer work. Your ears can certainly be retrained, but you've developed hearing habits of hearing that must be actively broken. Can note-learners learn to play like ear-players? I think so, but I'm still working on what methods work best. I tend to analyze everything and do lots of directed listening, and while this is very good at helping to hear new things, it's sort of counter-intuitive to think that analyzing something will help you eventually arrive at a more intuitively-musical way of playing. Comments, anyone? <> To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
When teaching an evening class on playing traditional music a while back, I was determined to get the dots only players to play by ear, & visa versa too, so they all had the benefit of both techniques. Most seemed to find it useful. So after some weeks of working up to it, and following John Kirkpatrick's writing on improvising within a tune when that half of the brain takes over, I set us to play the same tune for 25 minutes and see what happened to it. Most people hugely enjoyed it. One unrepentant dots-only player was really quite angry with me. Apparently I'd just made him read the same 32 bars around 20 times, and he was still having to read every single dot at the end of it, and he was bored out of his skull. And he still couldn't, or wouldn't, play it without the dots, in case he got a note "wrong". After reading your post, Chris, I find I have a bit more sympathy for him than I had, inwardly, at the time! Richard. ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: <> But it's worse than that. I clearly remember one session in Hexham when someone suggested a tune that I knew without music, and regularly played. "Great!" I thought, "I don't need to go scrabbling to find this in the tune book and come in after everyone else has already started." After the first couple of bars, I lost my way, and didn't find it again till the tune was finished. So now, even if it's a tune I know without music, if I'm in company, I find the dots just for reference if I need it. But I think the ability to play by ear is somehow buried somewhere in the other side of the brain if I could just learn how to access it. Sometimes I can be playing a tune (on my own, from the music) and my eyes lose track of the place in the music. But sometimes I can continue, if it's a tune I know well, for several bars, before my eyes get the right place again. If someone were to write a book on 'playing music on the right side of the brain' I'd be a customer. Chris Harris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Happy Hours
I rather assumed that the extra extra embellishment was a sort of "in" joke, affectionately smiling at Billy Pigg's enthusiasm for such embellishments and just overdoing it enough for the grin. Andy M only does that once - most tasteful! Mr. May, sir, - if you read this list - was that the intention? Richard. Dally, John wrote: <.>"Happy Hours", which Andy writes he picked up from the playing of Billy Pigg. Andy slips a very Piggish embellishment in the second and third times through the tune, which some might consider improper NSP technique. It works for me. <.> -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Dawn Goff contact request
Apologies to the rest of you for using the general lists thus. Hi Dawn, You wrote to one of these two lists about Rothbury Festival... I think it's next weekend, yes? recently but I deleted the message, and hence your address with it. I have a small favour to ask, if you are going up there, and would be most grateful if you'd contact me, please. Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Composing location
:) For -L-2 you'd get other frustrated would-be-shower takers ganging up on you - there was only one men's shower! The 50p shower time gave the start, the 250 yards back to the tent gave thinking time for what followed. R [1]malcra...@aol.com wrote: For a -L-1.00 do you get a B part? For -L-2.00 did you get repeats? Regards Malcolm -Original Message- From: Richard York [2] To: NSP group [3] Sent: Wed, Aug 12, 2009 5:16 pm Subject: [NSP] Composing location On holiday I set myself the task of writing a tune a day whether it was rubbish or not, just to make me start writing again. We were camping in stunning Pembroke coastal scenery... but the most inspiring place to think of tunes, I found, was the shower; the only problem being the risk of 50p running out & the water stopping abruptly, so the ablutions had to happen first and fast! Where does anyone else find is a good place to invent tunes? Yours in hopefully non-contentious cheer, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:malcra...@aol.com 2. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk 3. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Composing location
I'm impressed that you find you can write decent tunes in your sleep, Valerio - I recently woke up from a dream with a world-beatingly fantastic tune in it, and to my glee found I could still remember part of it. Then as the layers of sleep peeled away I was mortified to realise I'd just re-hashed "I did it my way"... I don't even particularly like the song! Best wishes, Richard. Valerio M. Pelliccioni wrote: Richard, in my experience, every place is a good place for a new melody to come up. BTW the worst place (and the most frequent) is the bed during the REM phase... I have to immediately stand up and write down the melody otherwise, the day afte r, I'll forget it. Valerio - Original Message - From: [1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: [2]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Data: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:16:35 +0100 Subject: [NSP] Composing location On holiday I set myself the task of writing a tune a day whether it was rubbish or not, just to make me start writing again. We were camping in stunning Pembroke coastal scenery... but the most inspiring place to think of tunes, I found, was the shower; the only problem being the risk of 50p running out & the water stopping abruptly, so the ablutions had to happen first and fast! Where does anyone else find is a good place to invent tunes? Yours in hopefully non-contentious cheer, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: players in SW
Valerio's right - though you could always buy the Peacock book on actual paper. It's remarkably cheap for such a superb set of music for 8 notes. In fact in my fairly short nsp playing life so far, I've been surprised that although everyone carries the Society Tune Books and the folios, relatively few of the ones I've come across seem to carry Peacock round with them. Perhaps it should be a compulsory feature of membership ;-) Julia Say is the contact you want here. Happy piping from the middle of the country! Richard. amble skuse wrote: Hi all I'm a newbie to NSP, I'm a flute player who has recently felt really drawn to the pipes. I have been really lucky to be able to hire a set of NSP's to practice with. I've had a couple of pointers on getting the elbows to work but it would be great to find other players in the SW of England. Is there anybody there? Also does anyone have a link to any music designed for keyless sets? Thanks in advance. Amble :-) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Folio 3
I opened my computer to write and congratulate Julia & all on Folio 3, & see I'm not the first, so I'll join my voice to theirs. I'll look forward to playing through the tunes too. Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Way off topic appeal to Guardian readers
With my apologies for seriously abusing the proper subject of this list... Please do any Guardian readers among you in the UK have a copy of today's (Monday's) section of "Great Fairy Tales" unwanted? I'll happily refund the cost of the paper plus P&P to get one. Please reply off list; and again I apologise for hijacking it thus. Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Power of Positive Thinking
And to make matters worse we're all into parallel bore, which sounds more repressed than conical bore. Though I suppose being an inverse conical bore might be worse still. May I suggest we refer instead to the "Intra-chanter central musical channel" which apart from being snappy surely removes all possible misunderstanding or pejorative connotation? Richard Francis Wood wrote: In these occasionally acrimonious times, I do feel there might be some value in searching critically for the sources of negative influence. As a start, we might do well to examine the language of piping terms. That lexicon is in sore need of some enlightened revision. The following points will, I hope, provide persuasive examples. To begin with the chanter. 'Bore' has pejorative connotations. I would not wish to be described in such terms. 'Narrow bore' provides no enhancement. 'Closed' takes us further down the path of negativity. And 'closed fingering' is distinctly creepy. Let us move to 'drones'. A joyless word suggesting tedium and monotony. In the apian world, the drones produce no honey. Human bores are said to 'drone on'. The word itself draws negativity into our playing experience in a way that 'harmony pipes' (to give an example) would not. As for 'stocks', that is clearly unfortunate. In historical times, people were locked up in 'stocks' as a punishment which also seemed to require the throwing of rotten eggs. The financial usage attracts further dismay. Are there examples of this word being used in any pleasant context? I think not. I am not at all sure that 'blowpipe' is a very proper word. I will leave that for others to discuss and move on rapidly to the question of 'bellows'. That word instantly invokes associations with anger, pain and frustration. Sentiments that are entirely foreign to the experience of learning and playing the pipes. Finally, I can suggest nothing at all in defence of the usage of 'bag' which occupies a prime position in the language of insult. Our choice of vocabulary is crucial in any collaborative experience. In the interests of harmonious piping, some critical thinking about the language we use may be helpful. Any scrutiny of the terms above would surely suggest that we need alternatives entirely devoid of distressing connotations. I invite your comments. Francis Wood To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Old Guy
I'd love to hear it, but am I the only one whose computer sits there for ages with the quick-time logo up, and the message "loading", but no ultimate achievement? Is there an alternative route to reaching it? I can hear the other tunes on your front page, Anthony, they're fine. Thanks, Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a wee snippet of Will Atkinson playing some of Madame B.,Fiddler's Cramp and Mrs Forbes Farewell to Banff. I think we can all learn something from his clean controlled playing. What think you? [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson -- References 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Old Guy
Thanks Anthony, and it is indeed fantastic playing, well worth the listen. John Doonan's advice sounds like that of Karen Tweed (the accordian player the rest try to copy). Karen reckons that to play accordian well you listen to excellent playing on flute, fiddle, almost anything other than box, and try to incorporate their characteristic sounds into the accordian, rather than just trying to play good accordian. In her case it's Irish style she starts from, but it concurs with what you say here. Best wishes, Richard. P.S. I'm getting duplicate NSP emails just now - is is something we all get in turn on this list? (Whose turn next?) Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Richard I've put a smaller file on the same link, [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson (& a photo of yours truly with Will & Joe). I know Will didn't play the pipes but I'm trying to follow the advice of John Doonan (pal of Billy Pigg, Archie Bertram et al.) 36 years ago he heard me play and told me I was a good player but the only way I'd improve was to listen to the all players of Northumbrian music and learn from them. Six months later I met him at one of Archie Bertram's nights near Hepple and could see just what he meant. Trouble is I'm still not there yet - as Jimmy Little says "it takes a lang time, a lang, lang time"! Cheers Anthony --- On Sun, 25/10/09, Richard York wrote: From: Richard York Subject: [NSP] Re: Old Guy To: "Anthony Robb" , "NSP group" Date: Sunday, 25 October, 2009, 10:26 PM I'd love to hear it, but am I the only one whose computer sits there for ages with the quick-time logo up, and the message "loading", but no ultimate achievement? Is there an alternative route to reaching it? I can hear the other tunes on your front page, Anthony, they're fine. Thanks, Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: >Here's a wee snippet of Will Atkinson playing some of Madame >B.,Fiddler's Cramp and Mrs Forbes Farewell to Banff. I think we can all >learn something from his clean controlled playing. What think you? > >[1][2]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson > > > >-- > > References > >1. [3]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- References 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson 2. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson 3. http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Old Guy
Thanks Richard, That's interesting - we like Firefox so much better in lots of ways, but it sometimes doesn't play things it ought. Now I'll know what to do in future! Best wishes, Richard. Richard Evans wrote: Richard Evans wrote: Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a wee snippet of Will Atkinson playing some of Madame B.,Fiddler's Cramp and Mrs Forbes Farewell to Banff. I think we can all learn something from his clean controlled playing. What think you? [1]http://www.robbpipes.com/WillAtkinson Doesn't work on our computer. We've got quicktime etc, new machine running Vista so anybody got any suggestions? A further check shows that none of Anthony's website sound samples work. Turns out to be Firefox. Works fine in Internet Explorer. Not come across the issue before. Richard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Radio Mics and channel 69
Thanks Tim, and all. I've just got in from a slow drive up a clogged M1, so haven't got my brain round every last paragraph on the link you sent, but I will try when I'm less bog eyed! I'm sorry it was old news, but the PM programme was the first I'd heard of it. Still not sure that churches will be safe... And surely bothering MP/prospective MP can't do any harm, if enough people do it. Meanwhile, for consolation, I've just heard from my local friendly supplier of PA gear. He says the industry has known, and been talking of it busily, for over 6 months. The industry opinion is that they're unlikely to switch before the Olympics, as even the existing channel 69, and the proposed new channel 38 together won't handle all the 300+ radio channels the Games will require. Hmmm. Happy amplifying! Richard. tim rolls BT wrote: Perhaps this link will help answer a few of the questions implied below. The consultation period may be over, but it was unlikely to have made any difference anyway, may be more joy if 100,000 people contacted their MPs. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/pmse_funding/summary/ Tim ----- Original Message - From: "Richard York" To: "NSP group" Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: [NSP] Radio Mics and channel 69 Not instantly an obvious smallpipes issue, I realise, but enough pipers here are in bands or other organisations using radio mics to make this worth passing on, I hope. Monday's Radio 4 PM programme reported that the Gov't, in their Ofcom hat, are selling off the radio frequencies used in the UK by all radio mics, including loop systems, known as channel 69. They're going to re-assign different frequencies for this use, but existing equipment won't work on them, so will need replacing. To be really helpful they aren't telling which frequencies they'll be making available instead, or when they'll be doing it. They are apparently generously offering to pay for the equipment thus rendered useless, but only the value of the stuff at the time, not its replacement value. .. anyone want to guess the market value of a dead radio mic? I know the mics aren't re-tunable, I don't know about the receivers - we haven't got one yet. There's an article I found earlier today online at [1]web.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/17/ofcom-channel-69-rad io-frequencies So bands, churches, concert halls, theatres, amateur dramatic groups, schools, and anyone else using this equipment is going to be out of pocket, and inconvenienced too. Please complain! Best wishes, Richard. -- References 1. web.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/17/ofcom-channel-69-radio-frequencies To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 07:50:00
[NSP] Re: From notation to music
Well said again, Anthony. It's indeed the possession of both skills which is rare. We recently met a lady who had played professionally in the string section of a leading national orchestra for years, and had just retired. Name the conductor, and she'd played under them. She now left the instrument in its case, as that was part of her working life, which was now, rather gratefully, over. Playing music for pleasure - good heavens, no! She was also distinctly threatened by the notion of improvising - we were doing an informal presentation of Tudor music at the time - but in a way which said she rather wished she could, though she'd never admit it. As it was, the machinery of her hands presumably read the dots without the music ever reaching her mind. We felt sorry for her. Richard. Anthony Robb wrote: What a long, long way we've wandered from my initial point! No one can take any pride at all in not having a skill and I for one know no "by ear" leaner who would not wish to add the skill of sight-reading to their box of repertoire-expanding tools. For many it simply wasn't an option. They picked up the tunes from listening to what was available and pleasing to them. The lack of such a useful skill as sight-reading forced them to listen over and over again to the style of music played and gave them an insight into the music hidden beyond the dots. It is the absorption of the music into their very being which gives this music, often simple on the surface, it's complexity, vitality and beauty. Traditional music has been successfully passed on by listening for many generations. This is not beyond any musician who wants to aspire to it. It does, however, require more discipline from a dots reader because tunes can be quickly, nay instantly, accessible to them. The worry is that the more people who do this, without lots and lots of listening to what generations before have worked at and left us, the more we will be passing on a watered down version of the tradition. Stewart Hardy is a truly gifted musician by any standard. His sight reading is impeccable. Jimmy Little wouldn't know where to start with a page of dots. The one thing that they share is the amount of listening they do to take in every ounce of life and bounce from our music and then give it back with their own unique surprises and turns. It is unmistakeably part of the tradition but not slavishly copied and reproduced. Dots on their own can never pass on this feel for the music. No one is (snobbishly) damning sight-readers per se. We are saying there is a heirarchy of approaches in traditional music; the most important is listening (over and over again -even if this doesn't mean actually learning by ear) then turn, once the music has been absorbed, to the dots for reference, repertoire expansion, resurrection of old manuscript tunes etc. When done this way around, each and every one of us involved in the tradition benefits and so our blessings (not condemnation!) be upon you. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 2/12/09, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Subject: [NSP] Re: From notation to music To: j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 December, 2009, 16:02 John: >I haven't damned 'classical musicians' at all. I wasn't accusing you personally of damning classical musicians. Sorry if it came over that way. Some people, including some who should no better, do damn classical musicians, however, and even take a pride in their own inability to read the dots. Inverted snobbery if you ask me. Btw, when I used the term "damn" I was merely referring back to Sheila Bridges' contribution, in which she wrote "and it >seems that many who are damning the classically trained on >this nsp ..." Best c To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4
There's also the theory that said crusaders found the Saracen bagpipes
upset their horses so brought them back as a way of bagpipe-proofing
horses - urban bagpiping myth or not?
The same theory likes the introduction of the nakers to Europe
occurring for the same reason - it is said that this end of the world
didn't have drums prior to that.
Sort of Middle Eastern spoilers for the European weapon of mass
destruction :-)
Happy New Year, too!
Richard.
Barry Say wrote:
Well spotted Francis. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
Adding to Alistair Anderson's conjectures on the development of the bagpipes,
the most convincing story I have heard is that when the Crusaders travelled to
what has been described as 'The Holy Land', they discovered people playing
'pipes' from air in 'bags'. They took this idea home and tried putting the
native instruments of their region into bags to see what happened. This would
neatly account for the widespread distribution of bagpipes in Europe and the
variety of forms.
Any thoughts?
Barry
PS Happy New Year
--
On 1 Jan 2010 at 9:50, Francis Wood wrote:
A very nice item yesterday on BBC Radio 4 from Morpeth Chantry Bagpipe Museum.
Congratulations to everyone who spoke or played; it was really good!
The programme ('Questions, Questions', 13.30) is available for the next 6 days
at:
[1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2009/12/31
Francis
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2009/12/31
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4
I don't know what someone fed you for New Year's Day Dinner, Francis, but it should be on sale only under the counter. Salutations. Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 1 Jan 2010, at 21:18, Richard York wrote: There's also the theory that said crusaders found the Saracen bagpipes upset their horses so brought them back as a way of bagpipe-proofing horses - urban bagpiping myth or not? Well, Richard, I like that speculation. However there's also a theory specific to our own pipes which is less distant. Earliest reference to the closed-fingered small-pipes is to be found in an early English account of a visit to the court of the ancient Irish King Brian or Bria n Boruma. This famous warrior had lost a thumb in a hunting accident, a misadven ture which affected him but slightly, although he was greatly saddened by his in ability to play Irish smallpipes, his skill on this instrument being renowned th roughout the kingdom. The subsequent emergence of melodies with only a seven no te range can be traced to this period, and the recent discovery of a smallpipe c hanter from a contemporary burial site with the distinctive absence of the upper octave hole seems to provide evidence of the adoption of such a chanter followi ng the royal example. An old inventory refers colloquially to the instrument as "No-thumb Brian pipes" and in translation this term has survived in English to this present day, despite the restoration of the thumb hole. Happy New Year, all! Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4
G'wan then... Francis Wood wrote: On 1 Jan 2010, at 17:59, Barry Say wrote: the most convincing story I have heard is that when the Crusaders travelled to what has been described as 'The Holy Land', they discovered people playing 'pipes' from air in 'bags'. I don't suppose anyone wants to hear my theories about Holey Ha'penny? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4
And there I'd been believing that old rubbish about payment to the carter for bring in the harvest, and the remaining Anglo-French influence on language in places like Hutton-le-Hole - Haul le Hay Penny. Tsk, as they say. (Enough - I must away to work) Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 1 Jan 2010, at 22:30, Matt Seattle wrote: I don't suppose anyone wants to hear my theories about Holey Ha'penny? Francis Yes please Hi Matt and Richard, Yes . . . this is the tune earlier known by the title 'Speed the Clough'. It was originally recorded at 45 rpm on an unusually long chanter but issued by HMV at 78 rpm to simulate virtuosity. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Strange, isn't it? You're right, but I can't recollect ever seeing the "Scotland bagpipes" mentioned, nor yet the "France bagpipes." Yours in puzzlement, but Happy New Year anyway, Richard. P.S. Not being very tall, I suppose I'm a small piper, or at least aspiring eventually to become one. colin wrote: I'd go with that. Problem with "Northumbrian" is that it may appear that it refers to where the artist comes from (as in "Colin Hill, Liverpudlian small-pipes player"). ;-) Northumbrian piper may suggest a piper from Northumberland who plays bagpipes (any). Northumberland small-pipes player sounds good and accurate (maybe "player" is stretching it a little in my case). :-D Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "inky adrian" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: [NSP] NSP I've always called them the Northumberland small-pipes as did the NPS in the old days. Inky-adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP
Palatinate Pipes? tim rolls BT wrote: I guess we may have to consider allowing Durham, CHAPELRY OF WHITWORTH. The Chapelry of Whitworth is bounded by the Wear, dividing it from Brancepath on the North; by Tudhoe, in the Parish of Brancepath, on the East; by Merrington on the South-east and South; and by St. Andrew's Auckland on the South-west and West. John Robinson, of Coundon, found drowned the 23d day of August 1637. He was a piper. From: 'Chapelry of Whitworth', The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham: volume 3: Stockton and Darlington wards (1823), pp. 291-302. URL: [1][1]http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=76361&strque ry=northumberland piper Date accessed: 06 January 2010. Tim - Original Message - From: [2]Anthony Robb To: [[2]3]...@millgreens.f2s.com ; [[3]4]gibbonssoi...@aol.com ; [5]tim rolls BT Cc: [[4]6]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP Hello Tim Guess you're thinking about developments such as concert G chanters and high C keys. It would be accurate but silly as we both know. Clearly the pipes have growing international interest but newcomers Googling Northumberland (pipes) would get a very half-baked picture of the instrument and its history. Even if Northumberland had gained widespread acceptance during the appropriate period a good case could now be made for Northumbrian. Surely we should stick with the accepted and now geographically accurate Northumbrian. It is, after all, what most of us call them. As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 6/1/10, tim rolls BT [5] wrote: From: tim rolls BT [6] Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP To: [7]...@millgreens.f2s.com, [8]gibbonssoi...@aol.com, "Anthony Robb" [9] Cc: [10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 12:09 Hi All, Surely the "Tyne and Weary" pipes appelation should only apply to developments since 1973. Before that back to a point where Newcastle was a county in it's own right (someone fill in the dates here )it's Northumberland all the way. Perhaps to avoid contention we should adopt a new designation, as Scottish is to Scotland, and English is to England (Angleland) what about Northumberlish? Tim - Original Message - From: "Anthony Robb" [11]<[7]anth...@robbpipes.com> To: [12]<[8]...@millgreens.f2s.com>; [13]<[9]gibbonssoi...@aol.com> Cc: [14]<[10]...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:15 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP > > Thin ice here,I think, John. > Leaving aside the century in which the unique sound of the pipes was > created and whether the addition of keys "improved" this sound, there > are real problems, these days, with the appellation Northumberland. > You rightly point out that the Kingdom of Northumbria belonged to a > different era to the modern version of the instrument but then so does > Northumberland as now designated by the boundary changes of the 1970s. > Jim is far closer to the truth when he refers to Northumbria as the > home of our pipes as this region does imply the inclusion of what is > now Tyne & Wear, and Durham. > The locals of course usually just referred to them as pipes and used > appellations "Scottish" or "Irish" to denote otherwise. When > geographical information was added for the benefit of a wider audience, > Northumberland was used. > This now, however, has a greater lack of accuracy than > "Northumbrian" as it means that the very place where the piping > developments you mention is excluded from the named location. > Perhaps some would like us now to refer to "Northumberland" pipes for > the older version and "Tyne & Wear" pipes for the modern version? > As aye > Anthony > --- On Tue, 5/1/10, [[15]11]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [16]<[12]gibbonssoi...@aol.com> > wrote: > > From: [[17]13]gibbonssoi...@aol.com [18]<[14]gibbonssoi...@aol.com> > Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP > To: [[19]15]...@millgreens.f2s.com > Cc: [[20]16]...@cs.dartmouth.edu > Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 23:03 > > The pipes and the kingdom belong to different eras - > the Northumbrian pipes reached something like their modern form in a > similar time and place to the steam locomotive. > But they were called 'Northumberland pipes' then, as were their > simpler > 'unimproved' pre-Peacock version. > 'Northumbrian' is now used, confusingly, to refer to any of > -the Anglo-Saxon kingdom > -the modern county > -the modern NE region, from the Tees to the border, > never ever specifying which is meant. > It is apparently a gross error to do so, t
[NSP] Re: NSP Etiquette
Thanks for the reminder, Matt, and my apologies. Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: Etiquette Only couple of gross offenders, but please don't include EVERY message in a thread when you reply to it, just the relevant bits Happy New Year To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Hi Tom, I'll let others advise on the oil, but the bottles are gained by boldly walking into a nail and beauty salon and asking for either an unused one or an empty, then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Best wishes, Richard. Tom Childs wrote: Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Errmmm, no actually I got lots of sheets from an overhead projector and wiped it until or there again I'm just getting old and forgetful and meant acetone all the time. Whooops. Thanks, Francis. Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Jan 2010, at 19:04, Richard York wrote: then applying loads of acetate to clean it up. Hello Richard, That's what I did, though I think you meant acetone. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Julia, I love this word "snotomer" but confess I haven't met it before, neither has Google, it appears... I can sort of guess... Please explain, with footnotes where appropriate :) Richard. Julia Say wrote: On 13 Jan 2010, Gibbons, John wrote: I can't see LP getting too sticky - I have never noticed that happen. There isn't much chemistry can take place I think we are neglecting, or perhaps underestimating would be a better term, th e effect of individual players' finger surface chemistry. I suspect that different oils may suit different players/pad combinations. We know that some players (me included) tarnish brass simply by handling it - th is is to do with skin acidity levels. Possibly the same sort of interaction causes the oils used to behave differently. I have seen the after effects of olive oil polymerising, particularly on little- used pipes where spectacular snotomers develop, -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Yes - thanks! R Julia Say wrote: On 13 Jan 2010, Richard York wrote: Julia, I love this word "snotomer" but confess I haven't met it before, neither has Google, it appears... I can sort of guess... Please explain, with footnotes where appropriate :) I worked for 10 years in a polymer research unit in the 90s, and the word was current then. Polymers are (and this is the very simple version, folks) long chains of carbon molecules with various different bits hanging off the "sides". So methane (which has one carbon atom and four hydrogen) is a gas. Propane and butane, which are straight chains of 3 and 4 carbons respectively are also gases , but heavier. As the carbon chain gets longer the substance turns first liquid (think octane - 8 carbons), and then - eventually - solid (think paraffin wax). So at some stage the length is such that a semi-solid substance results - snotomers. I think you can guess why the name was applied. Think also the stuff you have to clean off a chip pan when the oil is getting tired. Or that has to gouge d out of key slots on pipes. It is of course more complicated than that - the "bits hanging off the carbon chains" are sometimes able to link with their neighbouring chains - if they didn 't we wouldn't have plastic washing up bowls - and the exact consistency of any particular plastic is determined by these sort of linkages, and the exact proce ss by which they are produced. In essence the number of chains there are"holding hands", the exact elements doi ng the linkages, and the length of the central chain determines the solidity or otherwise of the material. Does that help? Julia -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the Guardian today....
"Unmanned spy drone" says the article. I have an image of a little hovering drone which buzzes round nsp mass playings to check on the tunings of everyone present. Depending on the personality of the group leader/teacher, offenders are either helpfully rectified or dispatched. ( in case who's gone mad??) Richard. just in case you think I've gone quite quite mad http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/23/cctv-sky-police-plan-drones Anita To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] bag shape
I'd welcome comments/advice on nsp bag shape, please. There's the conventional shape, and now I learn there's the tear-drop shape. I've been playing other (non Scottish) bagpipes for quite a long time, with various shaped bags, from medieval/renaissance large tear drop, held more in front of the body, to nsp-like but bigger on Jon Swayne D border pipes, and have got used to & comfortable with them. I'm still finding my way on nsp's... I suspect this is a life-long state... but find that after some 10 or so minutes of playing I'm getting a restricted left hand movement, as my arm's getting pressure from the bulge of the bag against my forearm where it restricts the blood flow or something; this is a problem I don't get with my other sets. I've tried varying my arm position/bag position/drone angle/position of jaw/general earth energy and leyline alignment etc, but haven't yet cracked the problem. It seems logical to expect that the tear-drop shape, with most of the bag further back under the arm, is going to leave my forearm more relaxed and less pressured. But until you've tried anything you don't know, and I'd like to hear from anyone who has, please, either positive or negative experience of this shape. With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
Thanks greatly to one and all for these - great food for thought here. I'm interested that everyone's addressed the matter of how to make the existing bag shape comfortable, but no-one has offered experience of the tear-drop shape - are they very rare, or just deeply heretical? Meanwhile I shall try every position from armpit downwards for my existing bag, and seriously examine the matter of neck length. Its neck, not mine. (Thanks too, Mike S, for the off-list advice on position photo's - I'll try that.) I imagine, Barry, that bellows blowpipe length also came into your shifts of bag position? Interesting too the matter of which way the seam goes. I was convinced at first that it was the seam which was getting to me, but now think it's the bulge of the square bag shape - as suggested earlier in this string. Thanks Francis too for pointing up the pics on my own website... in fairness in have to say that while the Jon Swayne huge Flemish set and renaissance-type smaller set (both all brown) are comfortable, Jon does make the seam the modern way round. In the case of the massive Flemish set I've had to mend the protective strip on the outside of the seam more than once, as it's stuck rather than stitched in place. The Jim Parr medieval gaita-type ones (black bag, light boxwood) and the little hummelschen both have the seams on the inside and are very comfortable indeed. I've never had problems with the seasoning in them. Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
This thread is great - thanks again all. Resonance affected by neck shape, air flow etc - forgive my ignorance but does the presence of a bit of foam in the top of the split stock, put there I assume to prevent either seasoning escaping into chanter or loose reed escaping into bag, not affect airflow more than bag shape? Does this still apply if the foam plug is in place? And stitching leather is easier for some jobs when it's wet, and for turning it inside out enormously so. All ye best, Richard. Dave S wrote: Hi Richard, Other slight annoyances occuring when messing with bags/neck is "resonance" or a change in the resistance to airflow. Some bag/neck shapes give rise to top A and top B sounding flat at which point the unsuspecting will start chopping or scraping reeds - BEWARE Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
As I understand it, the shape you get if a cartoonist wants to depict a drop of water: pointy top smoothly widening to rounded belly shape, and in my mind, the top is not straight but bends off to the side the chanter's going to go. Again, like the cartoon drop of water. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. More mathematical descriptions are certainly available, and will be comprehensible to some Richard. Francis Wood wrote: I've seen the 'tear-drop' description used several times in this discussion. I think I know what it means but that remains my guess only.. For many others reading this discussion (if they are) it must be a fairly puzzling and unsatisfactory description. What exactly are we talking about here? Francis On 28 Jan 2010, at 10:57, Philip Gruar wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags
[With apologies - sent this to the NPS list by mistake first] Which brings me to a question which has long puzzled me: when you have a pipes bag using an entire goat/sheep/dog/wo'evva, with no seams, just the holes at the ends of arms and legs and things, how do you get the animal out through said quite small holes without spoiling the skin? And I do realise one answer is "make sure it's dead first," it's the next stage I'm concerned about. Richard. P.S. A friend tells me that the USA market was offered, specially for Burns Night, a humane Haggis killer. Francis Wood wrote: On 28 Jan 2010, at 18:25, Dave S wrote: the wind blows hard enough to turn dogs inside out Enthusiasts of the zaqq (Maltese bagpipes) should take note: The bag was traditionally made of (preferably) dogskin, but goat- and calfskin w ere also used; there are ethnographic reports that skins of large tomcats also s erved. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags
Wow! And quite apart from an illustration of an interesting bag position, (which is where we came in), & even more interesting bellows with angled attitude, I'm impressed by his using the lower 4th finger as the accompaniment on the harmony half of the double chanter while the rest of the same hand works with his left hand to produce the tune. Now there's a challenge to all you makers - double chanter nsp's? - not just musettes with extra notes on second chanter, but actual double chanter (Hastily takes cover.) Richard. Anita Evans wrote: Julia Say wrote: Why have I suddenly (and inexplicably?) become even more grateful to Jackie Boyce.. and to those fates that decreed I was going to play a different type!! indeed - at least with the 'standard' bag you can pretend it was never an animal... I picked this at random on youtube, but it illustrates the bag origins very nicely I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eob8pDcXhV4 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: vachement bien!
Vraiment!!! Merci. christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
And there's also the great mix of Andy May's pipes & Sophie Ball's fiddle on his Happy Hours CD. Smashing. (Official Disclaimer: the terms, "Great mix" and "smashing" here represent expressions of personally held opinions of musical taste, for which I alone am responsible, and with which others may find they wish to disagree. This is their right, just as some people love Wagner's Operas and I don't, despite a classical musical education. But I like this mix.) :-) Richard. rosspi...@aol.com wrote: The High Level Ranters were based on the mix of fiddle and pipes that I had discovered with Forster Charlton in the lat 1950's. Colin R -Original Message- From: John Dally To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:45 Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments I've been listening to a lot of UP flat set and fiddle duets, and playing my SSP in A a bit with a fiddler. I'm smitten with the sound mix of low pipe and fiddle. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments now OT
Haven't tried cyanide, but did "do" Wagner with passionate Wagner-phile 'A' level Music teacher many years ago. Sorry, Paul, it was as a result of that I got to dislike them... but hope you enjoy The Ring Cycle! Best wishes and apologies to all for another OT excursion! Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 7 Feb 2010, at 13:38, Paul Gretton wrote: Nice one, Richard. But did you know that a recent survey showed that 96.83% of people who say that they "don't like Wagner's operas" have never actually heard or attended one? ;-) Actually I don't like cyanide. Never tried it though, I must admit! Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
There are just too many obvious openings for unkind remarks about why one would bother to take the Gurdy out before trying the test but as a gurdy player I'm far too kind to make them. :-) Richard. There is a Belgian on the HurdyGurdy list, who is in the military, who has tried to blow up his Pelican case (empty) with grenades but it survived intact. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
I have a really useful lightweight case made from the ribbed black duct/pipe/tube whatever you may call it, about 6 or 7 inch internal diameter, which I rescued from surplus when they were laying new electric cables near us some 12 years ago. The nice man said that that pile was surplus offcuts, so I rescued some, and passed the other bits on to other pipers. (It no longer says "East Midlands Electricity" so clearly on it any more.) My dad kindly turned some wood into end plugs, one removable for the lid, fitting into a junction bit that was lying around. I wouldn't trust it with grenades, nor even squaddies jumping up & down on it (does this guy really hate his case so much?) but in normal robust use it's great, light, and waterproof. And you can tie a carrying strap firmly into the corrugations of the outside layer without having to make any holes in it. The only down side is that it's prone to roll, in the back of the car, or if placed on a slope, so no putting it down on riverbanks, for example! Keep your eyes open when driving past roadworks. They come in various sizes. Mine carries a set of Jon Swayne mouthblown G pipes very happily. I also use a drainpipe sawn in half longways and hinged, which came with a very second hand bass curtal I bought ages ago. It's even been tastefully covered with "Fablon" (remember it?!) wood effect sticky vinyl to make it look more like a proper case! Lined with foam, it works a treat. Best wishes, Richard. colin wrote: I do recall, on another piping list, someone mentioning using a length of (wide) plastic drainpipe with a strap riveted on for carrying purposes (the ends being made from drainpipe "end bits" they use to seal off a pipe - the unused end being stuck with the solvent.. Of course, quite waterproof but one would have to ensure the bellows fitted in as well.. Colin Hill. PS Yeah, I remember the Dutch guy and his Pelican case. I think he also has his squad jumping up and down on it as well. All survived. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
This is especially true if you have the skill and the right saw to cut the whole thing in two with a decent straight line which meets up with itself in all the right places... Richard. Paul Gretton wrote: BTW, anyone thinking of building their own (wooden) case might benefit from the following tip: Don't make the two parts separately - the case itself and the lid -- and then try to fit them together. What the factories do is build the case closed and then saw it open to create the two parts. This makes the woodwork much simpler and you get a more accurate joint. I was only alerted to this AFTER already building a couple of cases. D'oh... J Cheers, Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
And beware of the Wrong sort of foam! For various instrument cases some years ago I got this superb stuff from a car upholsterer: foam-backed cloth with quite a raised nap - smashing and quite classy looking .. for the first 12 - 15 years. After which the foam de-natures and fills the case, and the instrument, with really annoying tiny bits of foam. Ideal in a hurdy gurdy. More recently I used free sheets of expanded polystyrene packing from some flat-pack furniture, cut & glued in place with charity shop velvet curtain over the top. (PVA or Copydex) Heat & impact protection, and the curtain looks classy as long as it's plain and dark. Richard. Victor Eskenazi wrote: .. Oh, then of course comes putting in the foam padding... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Reeds
What a great idea indeed seems to be building momentum. I really enjoyed watching Andy May's demo at Halsway of making/scraping a reed. I suspect it's not quite as easy as he made it look :-) but as you say, it's a skill we all need. And fiddle tuning - while I was in a music shop some time ago a woman came in with a violin, and asked them to tune it. Apparently she'd been doing this once a week for ages! Best wishes, Richard. R. Evans wrote: For ten years or more I have been using second-grade chanter reeds (and spare chanters) in hands-on workshops for the Lowland and Borders Pipers Society. This allows people to practice adjusting reeds (and, indeed, simply learn to handle them properly) without any risk to their own pipes. The basics of reed adjustment and setting are pretty easy, but need to be learned like anything else. I think this sort of thing should be part of any piping instruction day/course and that players should be firmly encouraged in this direction. Not being able to do this, or recognise when it needs doing, would be like playing a fiddle without being able to tune it. Come to think of it, there are a few people in that position too! Cheers Richard -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Jack Dodd, OT: acronyms
AFAIK I hadn't met YMMV, so looked it up on the acronym finder "Your Market May Vary"? Incidentally I was then moved to look at what else they had to offer. My favourite so far is "YMMS" which can apparently be "You make me smile". How nice. Or it can mean "You make me sick". So reassuring to know it's unambivalent, then ;-) R. On 06/04/2010 08:49, Julia Say wrote: On 5 Apr 2010, John Dally wrote: Playing through some of Jack Dodd's tunes today, I wondered if anyone on the list could tell me about him, or send me to some resource on the web that might have information about him. Jack Dodd is still with us, and lives in Embleton. He is father to Margaret Watchorn (of this parish) - who presumably would be best placed to provide details. AFAIK he doesn't "do" the internet. He used to play pipes, and in my time, played banjo with Dishalagie. I received a lot of help from him when I first went to Alnwick pipers' meetings in the early 90s. He and George Mitchell (separately) gave me some really good advice, which I try to remember. I consider his tune "The Flowers of Ashgill" - in Alnwick's book 2 - to be one of the best old-fashioned waltz tunes ever - YMMV. Hope this helps Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Rosslyn Castle
Rosslyn/Roslyn/Roslin Castle is a tune I love, and it's in the NPS books. I'd like to find more about the origin. The story about the mason, from Andy May on his CD insert, is a great tale, but of course doesn't explain the tune's beginnings - I sort of assumed from there it was perhaps a lament related to the terrible deed. But it never seems very Scottish in its shape - all those major 7th leaps in a minor tune. We have a CD by the Welsh triple harp player Llio Rhydderch (OT thought... so was Lliopatra really Welsh, not Egyptian??!) who is very steeped in her tradition and takes it very studiously. She writes that there's a tradition that a relation of the famously Eponymous David of the White Rock, (and he died early mid C19th), travelled to Rosslyn Castle where he worked as a gardener, and took the tune with him from Wales. Certainly, once you hear her playing of it, it's absolutely Welsh. And very much the same feel as the David Of etc tune. On t'other hand she doesn't actually say who wrote it or when. While it's not strictly a Northumbrian Question, it's now in the nsp repertoire, so does anyone know any more of it, please? Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rosslyn Castle
Thanks Matt,
I had a suspicion you'd have more information!
The story is indeed that of the Apprentice Pillar. Thanks for the
correction about the building.
Without casting any doubt on the claims of Oswald to have written it
down, the date of 1746 does relate nicely to the possibility of it
having travelled with this relation of the Welsh DavidofRock.
Might Oswald have heard it, or McGibbons if 'twas him, have heard it
and worked from there?
I won't push for comment on the story - what about the Scottishness of
Welshness of the shape of the tune?
You know far more than most about the harmonic & melodic structure of
different traditions of tunes. Any comment on that?
Best wishes,
Richard.
On 26/04/2010 13:57, Matt Seattle wrote:
An early sighting is in Oswald CPC Vol 4 where it is called Roselana
Castle: 2 strains of air followed by 2 of variation followed by 4
'Brisk' 6/8 jig strs. The tune has been attributed to Oswald - it was
previously published by McGibbon as Glamis Castle in 1746 but Purser's
notes in the CDR edition of CPC lend support to a claim for Oswald -
the two men knew each other and were both Freemasons.
I don't have Andy's CD but if his story is about a mason I suspect it
relates to the Apprentice Pillar in Roslin Chapel - a different
building. The Welsh story - no comment.
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Richard York
<[1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> wrote:
Rosslyn/Roslyn/Roslin Castle is a tune I love, and it's in the NPS
books. I'd like to find more about the origin.
The story about the mason, from Andy May on his CD insert, is a
great tale, but of course doesn't explain the tune's beginnings - I
sort of assumed from there it was perhaps a lament related to the
terrible deed.
But it never seems very Scottish in its shape - all those major 7th
leaps in a minor tune.
We have a CD by the Welsh triple harp player Llio Rhydderch (OT
thought... so was Lliopatra really Welsh, not Egyptian??!) who is
very steeped in her tradition and takes it very studiously.
She writes that there's a tradition that a relation of the famously
Eponymous David of the White Rock, (and he died early mid C19th),
travelled to Rosslyn Castle where he worked as a gardener, and took
the tune with him from Wales. Certainly, once you hear her playing
of it, it's absolutely Welsh. And very much the same feel as the
David Of etc tune.
On t'other hand she doesn't actually say who wrote it or when.
While it's not strictly a Northumbrian Question, it's now in the nsp
repertoire, so does anyone know any more of it, please?
Thanks,
Richard.
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rosslyn Castle
Fair 'nuff! (I meant "or" not "of Welshness" - but guess you knew that ) On 26/04/2010 18:23, Matt Seattle wrote: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Richard York <[1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> wrote: what about the Scottishness of Welshness of the shape of the tune? I don't know enough about Welshness to comment, but to me the tune sounds more rooted in a particular time than a particular place. -- References 1. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Roslyn Castle
Indeed, more & more interesting. I still feel it sounds convincingly more Welsh than Scots once you hear it with appropriate chords, all dark and minor. (Not miner) Not that I'm at all stubborn :-) Richard. On 27/04/2010 20:13, Francis Wood wrote: On 27 Apr 2010, at 19:50, Julia Say wrote: I'd also heard this one, but with the instrument as a military fife, which had a d# key. I think there was speculation that this is why the seventh key to be placed on an nsp chanter was that d#. Interesting thought. There are very few known 6 key chanters, though. Perhaps 5 or 6. One formerly belonged to Burl Ives. Haydn was another admirer of the Roslyn Castle melody and included it among the songs he arranged for the Edinburgh publisher George Thomson. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Bag cloth
Greetings. I'm replacing the cover for my bag, due to replacing the leather bag with a longer necked one, which would otherwise poke out in an undignified way. I've only ever seen velvet used on bag covers so far. Is it just a fine tradition, or is there some reason why other cloths may be inappropriate? Has anyone out there any experience of other cloths and their potential drawbacks? If I do end up with a different cloth, do I get excommunicated, or burnt, or anything like that? Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bag cloth
Thanks to all for the wealth of information. Barry's reply suggests a possible need for a new sub-group within the NPS, the naturist sectionon second thoughts, I don't even want to picture it!! Best wishes, Richard. On 11/08/2010 22:09, Barry Say wrote: <> But why bother with a cover. With a really nice leather bag such as Jackie Boyce or a leather craftworker would make, why not go au naturelle. Barry <> I'm replacing the cover for my bag, <>Has anyone out there any experience of other cloths and their potential drawbacks? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bag cloth
On 12/08/2010 11:05, Richard York wrote: Go on, someone plase suggest tattooing the bag :) R On 12/08/2010 11:01, Philip Gruar wrote: Does this still work if the skin is covered with tattoos? Philip - Original Message - From: "Barry Say" [1] To: "NSP group" [2] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Bag cloth Does anyone remember a thread from the distant past when a now well-respected piper suggested playing in one's skin was a good way of discovering bellows leaks? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:barr...@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Skinny-piping
There would seem to be both pro- and con- tune titles on the subject, depending on your point of view and the weather. Hoop her and ungird her. Tom Hackett's Dream Delight of the men of Caernarvon The General Toast John the Red Nose, Carolan's Draught Bonny at mid-afternoon - morn being far too chilly! Richard. On 16/08/2010 15:52, Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Aug 2010, at 09:55, Richard York wrote: a possible need for a new sub-group within the NPS, the naturist section Since August is still with us, should we compile a suitable repertoire? Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Musical Instruments Museum in Brussels
Just take a sleeping bag and several days' food with you - once in, it's difficult to leave, as you keep on seeing just one more thing you Really need to look at... Richard. On 24/08/2010 09:09, Edric Ellis wrote: Hi all, Apologies if this is common knowledge - couldn't see it mentioned in the archives. If you're in Brussels, the Musical Instruments Museum ([1]http://www.mim.be/en) is very well worth a visit. They have 60 sets of bagpipes of all types, including a musette de cour (with a very elaborate bag cover that makes it look like some sort of cushion rather than a set of pipes), and a set of NSP (Reid I believe). Cheers, Edric. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.mim.be/en 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Competitions
Looking forward with interest to replies you get, Sheila. Just to complicate things further, I was thinking yesterday about the composition class, and what would happen in a piece arranged with other instruments. If one entered a tune with a line for a non nsp-instrument - assuming this is allowed in the first place - would the writing out of the other part have to take into account the pipes' transposing pitch? It is after all nearly a Bb instrument. Or would you just write the whole thing out as if everyone was playing at A440? OK, it's an arcane point, maybe, but makes a big difference to what you get out the other end! Richard. On 08/09/2010 02:10, [1]bri...@aol.com wrote: Dear piping friends I am sure that to many of you these few questions regarding the competitions are going to seem ridiculous, with very obvious answers, You no doubt find the ru les that are set out in the last Newsletter are all that is needed. Those who live in Northumberland and have attended the various competitions for years, are familiar with the "unwritten" rules for the different classes. Howe ver, for those living at some distance, and/or who have never attended previousl y but who are possibly considering entering, there are still some points which a re not quite clear. <..> Class 3 Compositions: 1. Recently I have been playing through the winning compositions printed in the NPS Magazine. (Many are delightful!) I notice that most are 16-bar tunes. Is this considered to be the ideal length? 2. I notice also, that they are all a solo melodic line. Are duets are not cons idered? 3. Most of these tunes are easily sight-read - this also is a pre-requisite? (Sometimes a tune can have interesting, though unexpected, bars, which may seem difficult initially but become easy after having been practiced a few times. W ould these tend to be thrown out immediately by a judge?) 4. Are compositions sent in showing the actual name of the composer? Or are p seudonyms used so that the judge is not biased in his/her expectations? <...> Possibnly I am not the only "outsider" who would be grateful for some further cl arifications. Warmest regards, Sheila -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:bri...@aol.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Competitions
It seems mean of me to pick up typos, Julia, 'cos I certianly maek planty, but I do like the idea of a 4 bar reel. Perhaps this should be a special class of its own in the said competitions. :) Richard. On 08/09/2010 11:05, Julia Say wrote: 1. Recently I have been playing through the winning compositions printed in the NPS Magazine. (Many are delightful!) I notice that most are 16-bar tunes. Is this considered to be the ideal length? This is one of the common "dance tune" lengths in this area. There are also 4-ba r reels, 48 bar jigs..etc etc -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
