Re: [NTG-context] Greek letter fall back for math

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, Mikael, the minunderstanding was mine. I was not aware of the need
for \setupmathematics. A great tip!

Best, Alan



On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist 
wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Alan Bowen  wrote:
> > Thanks, Mikael. That works nicely. Note: I changed
> >
> > \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> > [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
> >
> > to
> >
> > \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> > [preset=math:uppercasegreeknormal], since Knuth/TeX sets Greek capital
> > letters upright.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Alan Bowen 
> wrote:
> >> > Assuming that it is possible, I have been trying to substitute the
> Greek
> >> > letters of my main font for those used in the math font. (if it works,
> >> > it
> >> > should look better on the page than what I have now.)
> >> >
> >> > So, what have I missed/messed up in the following?
> >> >
> >> > \definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
> >> > [protrusion=quality,
> >> > expansion=quality,
> >> > mode=node,
> >> > force=yes,
> >> > ]
> >> >
> >> > \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre
> >> > Pagella][preset=math:digitsnormal,features=f:oldstyle]
> >> >
> >> > \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
> >> >
> >> > \definefontfamily[mainface][mm][TeXGyre Termes Math]
> >> >
> >> > \setupbodyfont[mainface,36pt]
> >> >
> >> > \starttext
> >> >
> >> > \emph{λ α μ β δ α}
> >> >
> >> > \m{λαμβδα}
> >> >
> >> > 0123456780
> >> >
> >> > \m{0123456780}
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > \stoptext
> >> >
> >> > Alan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> ___
> >> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> >> > to
> >> > the Wiki!
> >> >
> >> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> >> > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> >> > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> >> > archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> >> > wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> >> >
> >> >
> ___
> >>
> >> What if you change
> >>
> >> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
> >>
> >> to
> >>
> >> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> >> [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
> >> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> >> [preset=math:lowercasegreekitalic]
> >>
> >> That seems to work here with your example. By the way, I have not seen
> >> the Brill font before. It was very nice!
> >>
> >> /Mikael
> >>
> >>
> ___
> >> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> to
> >> the Wiki!
> >>
> >> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> >> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> >> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> >> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> >> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> >>
> >>
> ___
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ___
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> > the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> > archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> > wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> >
> ___
>
>
> Hi!
>
> I think there might be a small piece of misunderstanding (either on
> your side or on mine). Try the document
>
> \definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
> [protrusion=quality,
> expansion=quality,
> mode=node,
> force=yes,
> ]
>
>
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:lowercasegreekitalic]
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:uppercasegreeknormal]
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:uppercasegreekitalic]
>
>
>
> \definefontfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre Termes Math]
>
> \setupbodyfont[mainface,10pt]
>
> \setuppagenumbering[state=stop]
>
> \starttext
> αβΓΔ{\em αβΓΔ}$\alpha\beta\Gamma\Delta$ (default, upper case greek is
> upright)
>
> \setupmathematics[
> ucgreek=italic,
> ]
>
>
> αβΓΔ{\em αβΓΔ}$\alpha\beta\Gamma\Delta$ (now uppercase greek is in italic)
>
> \setupmathematics[
> ucgreek=normal,
> lcgreek=normal,
> 

Re: [NTG-context] Greek letter fall back for math

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Alan Bowen  wrote:
> Thanks, Mikael. That works nicely. Note: I changed
>
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
>
> to
>
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:uppercasegreeknormal], since Knuth/TeX sets Greek capital
> letters upright.
>
> Alan
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Alan Bowen  wrote:
>> > Assuming that it is possible, I have been trying to substitute the Greek
>> > letters of my main font for those used in the math font. (if it works,
>> > it
>> > should look better on the page than what I have now.)
>> >
>> > So, what have I missed/messed up in the following?
>> >
>> > \definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
>> > [protrusion=quality,
>> > expansion=quality,
>> > mode=node,
>> > force=yes,
>> > ]
>> >
>> > \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre
>> > Pagella][preset=math:digitsnormal,features=f:oldstyle]
>> >
>> > \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
>> >
>> > \definefontfamily[mainface][mm][TeXGyre Termes Math]
>> >
>> > \setupbodyfont[mainface,36pt]
>> >
>> > \starttext
>> >
>> > \emph{λ α μ β δ α}
>> >
>> > \m{λαμβδα}
>> >
>> > 0123456780
>> >
>> > \m{0123456780}
>> >
>> >
>> > \stoptext
>> >
>> > Alan
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
>> > to
>> > the Wiki!
>> >
>> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> > archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> > wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>> >
>> > ___
>>
>> What if you change
>>
>> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
>>
>> to
>>
>> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
>> [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
>> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
>> [preset=math:lowercasegreekitalic]
>>
>> That seems to work here with your example. By the way, I have not seen
>> the Brill font before. It was very nice!
>>
>> /Mikael
>>
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___
>
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___


Hi!

I think there might be a small piece of misunderstanding (either on
your side or on mine). Try the document

\definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
[protrusion=quality,
expansion=quality,
mode=node,
force=yes,
]


\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:lowercasegreekitalic]
\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:uppercasegreeknormal]
\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:uppercasegreekitalic]



\definefontfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre Termes Math]

\setupbodyfont[mainface,10pt]

\setuppagenumbering[state=stop]

\starttext
αβΓΔ{\em αβΓΔ}$\alpha\beta\Gamma\Delta$ (default, upper case greek is upright)

\setupmathematics[
ucgreek=italic,
]


αβΓΔ{\em αβΓΔ}$\alpha\beta\Gamma\Delta$ (now uppercase greek is in italic)

\setupmathematics[
ucgreek=normal,
lcgreek=normal,
]

αβΓΔ{\em αβΓΔ}$\alpha\beta\Gamma\Delta$ (now both uppercase and
lowercase greek are in upright)

\stoptext

The definefallbackfamily commands do not set what kind of greek
letters we get, but only from what font the corresponding range comes
from. This is at elast how I understand it.

Best

Mikael
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letter fall back for math

[Alan Bowen]

Whoops! Thanks, Woffgang.

\definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range={0391-03A9,03B1-03C9}] still
does not work, however.
But
\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:…] does.

Bet, Alan


On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Wolfgang Schuster <
schuster.wolfg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alan Bowen 
> 10. März 2016 um 15:34
> Assuming that it is possible, I have been trying to substitute the Greek
> letters of my main font for those used in the math font. (if it works, it
> should look better on the page than what I have now.)
>
> So, what have I missed/messed up in the following?
>
> \definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
> [protrusion=quality,
> expansion=quality,
> mode=node,
> force=yes,
> ]
>
> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre
> Pagella][preset=math:digitsnormal,features=f:oldstyle]
>
> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
>
> You need braces around the list, i.e.
>
>
> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range={0391-03A9,03B1-03C9}]
>
> or
>
>
> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range={lowercasegreeknormal,uppercasegreeknormal}]
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___
>
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letter fall back for math

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, Mikael. That works nicely. Note: I changed

\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:
lowercasegreeknormal]

to

\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
[preset=math:uppercasegreeknormal],
since Knuth/TeX sets Greek capital letters upright.

Alan

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist 
wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Alan Bowen  wrote:
> > Assuming that it is possible, I have been trying to substitute the Greek
> > letters of my main font for those used in the math font. (if it works, it
> > should look better on the page than what I have now.)
> >
> > So, what have I missed/messed up in the following?
> >
> > \definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
> > [protrusion=quality,
> > expansion=quality,
> > mode=node,
> > force=yes,
> > ]
> >
> > \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre
> > Pagella][preset=math:digitsnormal,features=f:oldstyle]
> >
> > \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
> >
> > \definefontfamily[mainface][mm][TeXGyre Termes Math]
> >
> > \setupbodyfont[mainface,36pt]
> >
> > \starttext
> >
> > \emph{λ α μ β δ α}
> >
> > \m{λαμβδα}
> >
> > 0123456780
> >
> > \m{0123456780}
> >
> >
> > \stoptext
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> ___
> > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> > the Wiki!
> >
> > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> > webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> > archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> > wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> >
> ___
>
> What if you change
>
> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
>
> to
>
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
> \definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill]
> [preset=math:lowercasegreekitalic]
>
> That seems to work here with your example. By the way, I have not seen
> the Brill font before. It was very nice!
>
> /Mikael
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___
___
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letter fall back for math

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Alan Bowen 
10. März 2016 um 15:34
Assuming that it is possible, I have been trying to substitute the 
Greek letters of my main font for those used in the math font. (if it 
works, it should look better on the page than what I have now.)


So, what have I missed/messed up in the following?

\definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
[protrusion=quality,
expansion=quality,
mode=node,
force=yes,
]

\definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre 
Pagella][preset=math:digitsnormal,features=f:oldstyle]


\definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]

You need braces around the list, i.e.

  
\definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range={0391-03A9,03B1-03C9}]


or


\definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range={lowercasegreeknormal,uppercasegreeknormal}]


Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letter fall back for math

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Alan Bowen  wrote:
> Assuming that it is possible, I have been trying to substitute the Greek
> letters of my main font for those used in the math font. (if it works, it
> should look better on the page than what I have now.)
>
> So, what have I missed/messed up in the following?
>
> \definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Brill][
> [protrusion=quality,
> expansion=quality,
> mode=node,
> force=yes,
> ]
>
> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][TeX Gyre
> Pagella][preset=math:digitsnormal,features=f:oldstyle]
>
> \definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]
>
> \definefontfamily[mainface][mm][TeXGyre Termes Math]
>
> \setupbodyfont[mainface,36pt]
>
> \starttext
>
> \emph{λ α μ β δ α}
>
> \m{λαμβδα}
>
> 0123456780
>
> \m{0123456780}
>
>
> \stoptext
>
> Alan
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___

What if you change

\definefallbackfamily[mainface][mm][Brill][range=0391-03A9,03B1-03C9]

to

\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:lowercasegreeknormal]
\definefallbackfamily [mainface] [mm] [Brill] [preset=math:lowercasegreekitalic]

That seems to work here with your example. By the way, I have not seen
the Brill font before. It was very nice!

/Mikael
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wiki : http://contextgarden.net
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek diacriticals (combining perispomenon displaced)

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, Hans and Thomas.

The problem is at my end. I have done more testing and suspect that the the
culprit is the Greek keyboard that I am using. I have a few other keyboards
(which I like much less) and there is no problem with them. (Deleting
caches and so on had no impact.)

Alan

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz <
thomas.schm...@uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> On 01/18/2016 10:33 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>> As I review my files, I see that this is a fairly recent problem, though
>>> I cannot say exactly when it first occurred.
>>>
>>
>> looks ok here ... assuming i have the right font
>>
>> you can try to wipe the font cache (otf and otl)
>>
>
>
> I can't test with HellenicaCU as I don't have the font, but I can confirm
> that output is good here with the IFAOGrec font, the combining circumflex
> is where it belongs. (most recent beta)
>
> Thomas
>
>
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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>
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>
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek diacriticals (combining perispomenon displaced)

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On 01/18/2016 10:33 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

As I review my files, I see that this is a fairly recent problem, though
I cannot say exactly when it first occurred.


looks ok here ... assuming i have the right font

you can try to wipe the font cache (otf and otl)



I can't test with HellenicaCU as I don't have the font, but I can 
confirm that output is good here with the IFAOGrec font, the combining 
circumflex is where it belongs. (most recent beta)


Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek diacriticals (combining perispomenon displaced)

[Hans Hagen]

On 1/18/2016 9:30 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:

​There is an oddity in processing Greek. The combining diacritical
perispomenon is not positioned properly, though it appears as it should
in the source file. This diacritical is placed properly if one inserts
the appropriate character directly.

The PDF file produced by this sample shows the problem as it appears
using two different Greek fonts. The first entries in each line are
incorrect.

\definefontfamily[mainface][serif][IFAO Grec Unicode]
\setupbodyfont[mainface, 24pt]

\definefont[HellenicaCU][file:HellenicaCU.ttf at 24pt]

\starttext
αῖ%combining diacritical
αῖ%char 1FD6

\HellenicaCU{
αῖ%combining diacritical
αῖ%char 1FD6
}
\stoptext

As I review my files, I see that this is a fairly recent problem, though
I cannot say exactly when it first occurred.


looks ok here ... assuming i have the right font

you can try to wipe the font cache (otf and otl)


-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Meer, H. van der]

On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:


Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with 
symbol setup g.
A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for 
uppercase.

It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but 
MkIV
takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek 
letters.

Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a nuisance. 
Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?

Hans van der Meer

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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Hans Hagen]

On 9-5-2012 09:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:


On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:


Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with 
symbol setup g.
A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for 
uppercase.

It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but 
MkIV
takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek 
letters.

Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a nuisance. 
Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?


- you can define a combined font that gets greek from a math font
- you can define a conversion that takes greek from a math font

(the second one could then be hooked into the 'g' option)

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Meer, H. van der]

On 9 mei 2012, at 11:15, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 9-5-2012 09:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:

On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:


Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with 
symbol setup g.
A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for 
uppercase.

It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but 
MkIV
takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek 
letters.

Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a nuisance. 
Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?

- you can define a combined font that gets greek from a math font
- you can define a conversion that takes greek from a math font

(the second one could then be hooked into the 'g' option)


I see, although I have not the faintest notion how to accomplish that.

Hans van der Meer




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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Philipp Gesang]

Hi Hans,
On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
 Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
 But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
 quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
 solution?

if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead. They can be an
appropriate match for LM.


\unprotect

\def\cmu_numerals#1#2{%
  \bgroup
  \setupbodyfont [computer-modern-unicode]
  \csname #1reeknumerals\endcsname{#2}%
  \egroup%
}
\defineconversion [cmu_greek] [\cmu_numerals{g}]
\defineconversion [cmu_Greek] [\cmu_numerals{G}]

\protect

\starttext

Before: τὸ γὰρ αὐτὸ νοεῖν ἐστίν τε καὶ εἶναι (no greek)

\startitemize[cmu_greek] \dorecurse{5}{\item foo} \stopitemize
\startitemize[cmu_Greek] \dorecurse{5}{\item bar} \stopitemize

After: τὸ γὰρ αὐτὸ νοεῖν ἐστίν τε καὶ εἶναι (no greek)

\stoptext


Nitpick: The macro names are a bit misleading here: these are not
in fact Greek numerals[1] but just the plain alphabetical
sequence of Greek letters, just like \characters for the Latin
alphabet. This sequence does not continue after it reaches ω. So
it might be more precise to call the macros \{g|G}reekcharacters.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals

Regards
Philipp


 
 Hans van der Meer
 

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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
 Hi Hans,
 On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
 Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
 But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
 quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
 solution?

 if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
 from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead.

If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
does have greek glyphs, however they are in the math range. This is
the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
font.)

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 09.05.2012 um 11:50 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

 
 On 9 mei 2012, at 11:15, Hans Hagen wrote:
 
 On 9-5-2012 09:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
 
 On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
 
 
 Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:
 
 I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with 
 symbol setup g.
 A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for 
 uppercase.
 
 It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font 
 but MkIV
 takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case 
 greek letters.
 
 Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
 Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
 But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a 
 nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?
 
 - you can define a combined font that gets greek from a math font
 - you can define a conversion that takes greek from a math font
 
 (the second one could then be hooked into the 'g' option)
 
 
 I see, although I have not the faintest notion how to accomplish that.

\defineconversion [mathgreek]
  [\m{α},\m{β},\m{γ},\m{δ},\m{ε},\m{ζ},
   \m{η},\m{θ},\m{ι},\m{κ},\m{λ},\m{μ},
   \m{ν},\m{ξ},\m{ο},\m{π},\m{ρ},\m{σ},
   \m{τ},\m{υ},\m{φ},\m{χ},\m{ψ},\m{ω}]

%\setupbodyfont[lucidaot]

\starttext
\starttabulate
\NC greek \EQ \dorecurse{24}{\convertnumber{greek}{\recurselevel} } 
\NC\NR
\NC mathgreek \EQ \dorecurse{24}{\convertnumber{mathgreek}{\recurselevel} } 
\NC\NR
\stoptabulate
\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Philipp Gesang]

On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
  Hi Hans,
  On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
  Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
  But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
  quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
  solution?
 
  if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
  from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead.
 
 If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
 does have greek glyphs, however they are in the math range.

With unicode I thought this was an archaism.

   This is
 the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
 would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
 font.)

Or to leave the counter untouched and wrap it into a substitution
function -- is there a chance you (or anyone else) could supply
me with a mapping of the “real” Greek code point to the “math
Greek” one?

Philipp

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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 09.05.2012 um 11:54 schrieb Philipp Gesang:

 Hi Hans,
 On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
 Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
 But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
 quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
 solution?
 
 if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
 from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead. They can be an
 appropriate match for LM.
 
 
 \unprotect
 
 \def\cmu_numerals#1#2{%
  \bgroup
  \setupbodyfont [computer-modern-unicode]
  \csname #1reeknumerals\endcsname{#2}%
  \egroup%
 }

Use \switchtobodyfont for local font switches.

\def\cmu_numerals#1#2%
  {\bgroup
   \switchtobodyfont[computer-modern-unicode]%
   \convertnumber{#1}{#2}%
   \egroup}

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
 On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
 does have greek glyphs, however they are in the math range.

 With unicode I thought this was an archaism.

I'm sorry, I'm telling you nonsense. There are no Greek letters in
LucidaBrightOT, but they are present in LucidaBrightMathOT. The italic
version starts at 1D6FC and the regural one is in the normal Greek
range.

                                                               This is
 the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
 would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
 font.)

 Or to leave the counter untouched and wrap it into a substitution
 function -- is there a chance you (or anyone else) could supply
 me with a mapping of the “real” Greek code point to the “math
 Greek” one?

See math-map.lua. If you need any help or explanation, please ask. I
believe that the following part might be relevant (but only if you
need italic):

lcgreek   = {
[0x03B1]=0x1D6FC, [0x03B2]=0x1D6FD, [0x03B3]=0x1D6FE,
[0x03B4]=0x1D6FF, [0x03B5]=0x1D700,
[0x03B6]=0x1D701, [0x03B7]=0x1D702, [0x03B8]=0x1D703,
[0x03B9]=0x1D704, [0x03BA]=0x1D705,
[0x03BB]=0x1D706, [0x03BC]=0x1D707, [0x03BD]=0x1D708,
[0x03BE]=0x1D709, [0x03BF]=0x1D70A,
[0x03C0]=0x1D70B, [0x03C1]=0x1D70C, [0x03C2]=0x1D70D,
[0x03C3]=0x1D70E, [0x03C4]=0x1D70F,
[0x03C5]=0x1D710, [0x03C6]=0x1D711, [0x03C7]=0x1D712,
[0x03C8]=0x1D713, [0x03C9]=0x1D714,
[0x03D1]=0x1D717, [0x03D5]=0x1D719, [0x03D6]=0x1D71B,
[0x03F0]=0x1D718, [0x03F1]=0x1D71A,
[0x03F4]=0x1D6F3, [0x03F5]=0x1D716,
},

For regular variant of Lucida it should be enough to use Math font
instead of the normal one, but I didn't test or write any code for it.
For LM you would have to use the italic version since upright (without
resorting to cm-unicode) looks horrible anyway.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Philipp Gesang]

On 2012-05-09 13:50, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
  On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 
  If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
  does have greek glyphs, however they are in the math range.
 
  With unicode I thought this was an archaism.
 
 I'm sorry, I'm telling you nonsense. There are no Greek letters in
 LucidaBrightOT, but they are present in LucidaBrightMathOT. The italic
 version starts at 1D6FC and the regural one is in the normal Greek
 range.
 
                                                                This is
  the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
  would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
  font.)
 
  Or to leave the counter untouched and wrap it into a substitution
  function -- is there a chance you (or anyone else) could supply
  me with a mapping of the “real” Greek code point to the “math
  Greek” one?
 
 See math-map.lua. If you need any help or explanation, please ask. I
 believe that the following part might be relevant (but only if you
 need italic):
 
 lcgreek   = {
 [0x03B1]=0x1D6FC, [0x03B2]=0x1D6FD, [0x03B3]=0x1D6FE,
 [0x03B4]=0x1D6FF, [0x03B5]=0x1D700,
 [0x03B6]=0x1D701, [0x03B7]=0x1D702, [0x03B8]=0x1D703,
 [0x03B9]=0x1D704, [0x03BA]=0x1D705,
 [0x03BB]=0x1D706, [0x03BC]=0x1D707, [0x03BD]=0x1D708,
 [0x03BE]=0x1D709, [0x03BF]=0x1D70A,
 [0x03C0]=0x1D70B, [0x03C1]=0x1D70C, [0x03C2]=0x1D70D,
 [0x03C3]=0x1D70E, [0x03C4]=0x1D70F,
 [0x03C5]=0x1D710, [0x03C6]=0x1D711, [0x03C7]=0x1D712,
 [0x03C8]=0x1D713, [0x03C9]=0x1D714,
 [0x03D1]=0x1D717, [0x03D5]=0x1D719, [0x03D6]=0x1D71B,
 [0x03F0]=0x1D718, [0x03F1]=0x1D71A,
 [0x03F4]=0x1D6F3, [0x03F5]=0x1D716,
 },

Yeah, appears to be the correct range. Couldn’t test with Lucida,
though.

 For regular variant of Lucida it should be enough to use Math font
 instead of the normal one, but I didn't test or write any code for it.
 For LM you would have to use the italic version since upright (without
 resorting to cm-unicode) looks horrible anyway.

But if there’s a math font, I’d go with the example that Wolfgang
posted; alternatively just wrap the converter into \mathematics:


\unprotect
\def\math_greek_characters#1{\mathematics{\greeknumerals{#1}}}
\defineconversion [mathgreek] [\math_greek_characters]
\protect


etc. It will depend on your choice of math font whether you get
italics or upright glyphs.

Philipp


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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
 On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
 does have greek glyphs, however they are in the math range.

 With unicode I thought this was an archaism.

 I'm sorry, I'm telling you nonsense. There are no Greek letters in
 LucidaBrightOT, but they are present in LucidaBrightMathOT.

Also, Charles Bigelow just answered that there are plans to include
Greek letters into Lucida Bright. This might not help you solve the
problem in short term, but the future seems Bright ;)

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Khaled Hosny]

On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 05:14:39PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 but the future seems Bright ;)

We should have named the fonts Lucida Brighter and Lucida Saner etc. ;)

Regards,
 Khaled
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Re: [NTG-context] greek items broken:

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

 I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with 
 symbol setup g.
 A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for 
 uppercase.

It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but 
MkIV
takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek 
letters.

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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Hans Hagen]

On 31-10-2010 7:39, Khaled Hosny wrote:

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 06:48:21PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:


Am 31.10.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:


On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 16:57, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 31-10-2010 12:11, Herbert Voss wrote:


Do I need some additional settings to get lower
greek letters in the example? I get only a dot for g


does the font that you use have greek symbols?


It seems to be a bug in code, not the lack of symbols. It fails in
Gentium as well. The code (\greeknumerals{3}) doesn't return anything,
but it works in MKII.


Can you make a example because it works for me:

\setupbodyfont[gentium]
\starttext
\startitemize[g]
\dorecurse{10}{\startitem #1 = \greeknumerals{#1} \stopitem}
\stopitemize
\stoptext

The difference between mkii and mkiv is that mkii use math mode
to display the greek characters while mkiv takes them from
the bodyfont and latin modern has no greek.


LM has upper case Greek, no idea why not lower case as well.


i guess that they will be there when lm math shows up

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Hans Hagen]

On 31-10-2010 12:11, Herbert Voss wrote:

Do I need some additional settings to get lower
greek letters in the example? I get only a dot for g

\starttext

\startitemize[g]
\item foo
\item bar
\item baz
\item baz
\stopitemize

\startitemize[G]
\item foo
\item bar
\item baz
\item baz
\stopitemize

\stoptext


does the font that you use have greek symbols?


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 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 16:57, Hans Hagen wrote:
 On 31-10-2010 12:11, Herbert Voss wrote:

 Do I need some additional settings to get lower
 greek letters in the example? I get only a dot for g

 does the font that you use have greek symbols?

It seems to be a bug in code, not the lack of symbols. It fails in
Gentium as well. The code (\greeknumerals{3}) doesn't return anything,
but it works in MKII.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 31.10.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:

 On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 16:57, Hans Hagen wrote:
 On 31-10-2010 12:11, Herbert Voss wrote:
 
 Do I need some additional settings to get lower
 greek letters in the example? I get only a dot for g
 
 does the font that you use have greek symbols?
 
 It seems to be a bug in code, not the lack of symbols. It fails in
 Gentium as well. The code (\greeknumerals{3}) doesn't return anything,
 but it works in MKII.

Can you make a example because it works for me:

\setupbodyfont[gentium]
\starttext
\startitemize[g]
\dorecurse{10}{\startitem #1 = \greeknumerals{#1} \stopitem}
\stopitemize
\stoptext

The difference between mkii and mkiv is that mkii use math mode
to display the greek characters while mkiv takes them from
the bodyfont and latin modern has no greek.

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[luigi scarso]

2010/10/31 Herbert Voss herbert.v...@fu-berlin.de:
 Do I need some additional settings to get lower
 greek letters in the example? I get only a dot for g

\setupbodyfont[dejavu]
\starttext

\startitemize[g]
\item foo
\item bar
\item baz
\item baz
\stopitemize

\startitemize[G]
\item foo
\item bar
\item baz
\item baz
\stopitemize

\stoptext

It works ok wiht latest minimals  dejavu and cambria fonts; it shows
dots with lm

-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Herbert Voss]

Am 31.10.2010 18:48, schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

 The difference between mkii and mkiv is that mkii use math mode
 to display the greek characters while mkiv takes them from
 the bodyfont and latin modern has no greek.

yes, that was the problem.

HErbert
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[luigi scarso]

2010/10/31 Herbert Voss herbert.v...@fu-berlin.de:
 Am 31.10.2010 18:48, schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

 The difference between mkii and mkiv is that mkii use math mode
 to display the greek characters while mkiv takes them from
 the bodyfont and latin modern has no greek.

 yes, that was the problem.
You can use Symbola

 HErbert
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-- 
luigi
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Herbert Voss]

Am 31.10.2010 19:33, schrieb luigi scarso:

 The difference between mkii and mkiv is that mkii use math mode
 to display the greek characters while mkiv takes them from
 the bodyfont and latin modern has no greek.

 yes, that was the problem.
 You can use Symbola

thanks
Herbert
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Khaled Hosny]

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 06:48:21PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
 
 Am 31.10.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:
 
  On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 16:57, Hans Hagen wrote:
  On 31-10-2010 12:11, Herbert Voss wrote:
  
  Do I need some additional settings to get lower
  greek letters in the example? I get only a dot for g
  
  does the font that you use have greek symbols?
  
  It seems to be a bug in code, not the lack of symbols. It fails in
  Gentium as well. The code (\greeknumerals{3}) doesn't return anything,
  but it works in MKII.
 
 Can you make a example because it works for me:
 
 \setupbodyfont[gentium]
 \starttext
 \startitemize[g]
 \dorecurse{10}{\startitem #1 = \greeknumerals{#1} \stopitem}
 \stopitemize
 \stoptext
 
 The difference between mkii and mkiv is that mkii use math mode
 to display the greek characters while mkiv takes them from
 the bodyfont and latin modern has no greek.

LM has upper case Greek, no idea why not lower case as well.

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Martin Schröder]

2010/10/31 Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org:
 LM has upper case Greek, no idea why not lower case as well.

I still find the idea of greek letters in a font called latin
interesting... :-)

Best
   Martin
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Re: [NTG-context] greek letters in itemize

[Khaled Hosny]

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:18:20PM +0100, Martin Schröder wrote:
 2010/10/31 Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org:
  LM has upper case Greek, no idea why not lower case as well.
 
 I still find the idea of greek letters in a font called latin
 interesting... :-)

I'm more interested about the reasoning behind the partial support, it
would either not support Greek at all (after all it is Latin), or fully
support monotonic Greek at least (even though it is Latin, we all love
Greek and Don have already drawn them).

Regards,
 Khaled

-- 
 Khaled Hosny
 Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
 Free font developer
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Alan Bowen]

Hi, Thomas

I was getting errors no matter what font I wanted to use.

But now that I have installed the  the two files (alkagr.enc and  
alklagr.enc) in texmf/fonts/enc/dvips/greek,

everything works as it should.

The only “loss” that I have detected so far seems to be Greek  
Oxoniensis---I need an Oxoniensis.otf file---but given that the font  
is not in the public domain, that is perhaps for the good.


 Many thanks!

Alan

On Dec 19, 2008, at 17;57,00 , Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:



On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:45 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:


On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:

Hi, Mojca,
The key line in my preamble is
\usemodule[ancientgreek] 
[font=Alkaios,scale=1,altfont=GreekOxoniensis,altscale=0.9]
I get the same error message no matter what Greek font I call for  
(e.g.

GreekKerkis, GreekOxoniensis, etc).
I would check the docs but there are none with the module itself  
and the

link to the online docs is broken.
I have also checked t-greek-2008.08.11 and can confirm that there  
is no

alkagr.enc file in this module.
So, how does one fix this?


Sorry, was away from my computer for this afternoon. I just looked,  
and it seems that agralk.enc is not included in the zip. There's a  
typo in the tpm file from which the zip is generated, my bad. Alan,  
do I understand you correctly: you're getting errors no matter what  
font you use? Or just with Alkaios?






1.) wait for Thomas to answer

2.) this file seems a bit weird to me anyway:
http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules/t-greek/fonts/map/pdftex/context/tasgreek.map
but some older mirrors still contain this file:
http://sunsite.bilkent.edu.tr/pub/tex/ctan/macros/context/contrib/t-greek/fonts/enc/dvips/greek/agralk.enc


Mojca, I'm a bit slow tonight: what's weird about these files?

Anyway, I'll try to publish a new version in the next days, and I  
attach the necessary files.


Sorry for the inconvenience

Thomas

 
alkagr 
.enc 
 
 
alklagr 
.enc 
 
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Dec 20, 2008, at 12:43 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:



Am 20.12.2008 um 00:31 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:


On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:


Mojca, I'm a bit slow tonight: what's weird about these files?


I have never seen [ and  in map files before, but most probably
these are completely legal characters. It's just my ignorance,
probably nothing with the file, really.

After taking a closer look it seems to be an extention (with very
weird syntax) to enable otf fonts. One rarely sees support for those
in pdfTeX. (Even ttf seems to appear weird to TeXies.)



Don't know what [ is supposed to do but  is necessary to use
OpenType fonts with pdfTeX. Here is the explanation from the pdfTeX
manual.

Thanks for the explanation Wolfgang. As to [: to be quite honest, I  
don't know myself. When you let Eddie Kohler's lcdf tools generate a  
map file for an otf, it uses this syntax, so I just copied this  
behavior because it worked(TM). I have tried to google it, but  
searching for a string like [ isn't easy, it seems...


Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:
 Thanks, Aditya, mktexlsr ran successfully.

 Regrettably, I still get

 pdfTeX error: pdftex (file alkagr.enc): cannot open encoding file for
 reading
  == Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!

 when I try to process a file with Greek in it.

Maybe that's a file that exists on his computer only (by pure
accidence)? Google doesn't find that encoding file either.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Alan Bowen]

Thanks, Aditya, mktexlsr ran successfully.

Regrettably, I still get

pdfTeX error: pdftex (file alkagr.enc): cannot open encoding file for  
reading

 == Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!

when I try to process a file with Greek in it.

Alan

On Dec 19, 2008, at 15;17,05 , Aditya Mahajan wrote:


On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Alan Bowen wrote:

I recently updated to Thomas’ latest Greek module and to the system  
software (Mac OS 10.5.6), and am now am getting errors indicating  
that the .enc files are not being found.


I checked cont-sys.tex and see that \autoloadmapfilestrue is set.  
But running “texhash” gets a “command not found” message.


Try mktexlsr.

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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 19.12.2008 um 22:03 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:


On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:

Thanks, Aditya, mktexlsr ran successfully.

Regrettably, I still get

pdfTeX error: pdftex (file alkagr.enc): cannot open encoding file for
reading
== Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!

when I try to process a file with Greek in it.


Maybe that's a file that exists on his computer only (by pure
accidence)? Google doesn't find that encoding file either.


I found this encoding file in the release of the grrek module
from 3. April 2005.

agralk.enc

/alkagrEncoding[
...
] def

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:45 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:


On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:

Hi, Mojca,
The key line in my preamble is
\usemodule[ancientgreek] 
[font=Alkaios,scale=1,altfont=GreekOxoniensis,altscale=0.9]
I get the same error message no matter what Greek font I call for  
(e.g.

GreekKerkis, GreekOxoniensis, etc).
I would check the docs but there are none with the module itself  
and the

link to the online docs is broken.
I have also checked t-greek-2008.08.11 and can confirm that there  
is no

alkagr.enc file in this module.
So, how does one fix this?


Sorry, was away from my computer for this afternoon. I just looked,  
and it seems that agralk.enc is not included in the zip. There's a  
typo in the tpm file from which the zip is generated, my bad. Alan, do  
I understand you correctly: you're getting errors no matter what font  
you use? Or just with Alkaios?






1.) wait for Thomas to answer

2.) this file seems a bit weird to me anyway:
http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules/t-greek/fonts/map/pdftex/context/tasgreek.map
but some older mirrors still contain this file:
http://sunsite.bilkent.edu.tr/pub/tex/ctan/macros/context/contrib/t-greek/fonts/enc/dvips/greek/agralk.enc


Mojca, I'm a bit slow tonight: what's weird about these files?

Anyway, I'll try to publish a new version in the next days, and I  
attach the necessary files.


Sorry for the inconvenience

Thomas



alkagr.enc
Description: Binary data


alklagr.enc
Description: Binary data
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:

 Mojca, I'm a bit slow tonight: what's weird about these files?

I have never seen [ and  in map files before, but most probably
these are completely legal characters. It's just my ignorance,
probably nothing with the file, really.

After taking a closer look it seems to be an extention (with very
weird syntax) to enable otf fonts. One rarely sees support for those
in pdfTeX. (Even ttf seems to appear weird to TeXies.)

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module problem

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 20.12.2008 um 00:31 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:


On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:


Mojca, I'm a bit slow tonight: what's weird about these files?


I have never seen [ and  in map files before, but most probably
these are completely legal characters. It's just my ignorance,
probably nothing with the file, really.

After taking a closer look it seems to be an extention (with very
weird syntax) to enable otf fonts. One rarely sees support for those
in pdfTeX. (Even ttf seems to appear weird to TeXies.)



Don't know what [ is supposed to do but  is necessary to use
OpenType fonts with pdfTeX. Here is the explanation from the pdfTeX
manual.

If the font file name is preceded by a double , the font file
will be included entirely — all glyphs of the font are embedded,
including even the ones that are not used in the document. Apart
from causing large size pdf output, this option may cause troubles
with TrueType fonts, so it is normally not recommended for Type1
or TrueType fonts. But this is currently the only mode that allows
the use of OpenType fonts. This mode might also be useful in case
the font is atypical and can not be  subsetted well by pdfTX.
Beware: some font vendors forbid full font inclusion.

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letters in math with XeTeX

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:
 On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 
 Someone needs to write Unicode math support for mkii, or you need to
 make your own virtual font.
 
 Well...someone also needs to write Unicode math support for mkiv and I 
 would work on that in the hope that there is some chance that I may 
 actually understand how mkiv (will) handle math fonts. With MKII, math 
 fonts is black magic for me.

in mkii math characters (symbols) are taken from many fonts (and we can 
even have several combinations of math fonts active at the same time)

in mkiv we will use unicode exclusively (as soon as the math subproject 
of luatex is finished)

i don't think that mkii will have unicode math support

Hans

-
   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
  | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letters in math with XeTeX

[Flavien Lambert]

Just to understand a bit more : signs like equal are printed inside math
environment with GFS Didot thanks to \definetypeface[myface][rm][Xserif][GFS
Didot]. Since GFS Didot ,as a greek font has greek letters, why are these
glyphs not used ? I suppose that when greek people are using directly alpha
as a letter (not \alpha), it should take into account the GFS Didot font,
shouldn' it ?



 No time for complete answer, but you need to define the whole
 [math][GFS Didot] repertoaire first. This has no effect until you
 define one.

 Someone needs to write Unicode math support for mkii, or you need to
 make your own virtual font.

 See this file for example:
http://source.contextgarden.net/math-lbr.tex
 in a similar way that would need to be done for general typefaces without
 math.

 You might then be able to say something like
\definetypeface[myface][mm][Xmath][GFS Didot], though I'm 100%
 sure that people would then start complaining very soon that they
 either:
 - want other math characters in their favorite font as well (like
 plus, minus, brackets, ...), not only Greek letters
 - complain that they don't get any symbol (no font has them all)

 Mojca

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Quantum objects are completely crazy but, at least, they are all crazy in
the same way. R.P. Feynman.
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letters in math with XeTeX

[Hans Hagen]

Flavien Lambert wrote:
 Just to understand a bit more : signs like equal are printed inside math
 environment with GFS Didot thanks to \definetypeface[myface][rm][Xserif][GFS
 Didot]. Since GFS Didot ,as a greek font has greek letters, why are these
 glyphs not used ? I suppose that when greek people are using directly alpha
 as a letter (not \alpha), it should take into account the GFS Didot font,
 shouldn' it ?

it's more complex than that ... tex organizes math characters in 
families and = and alpha are in different slots there

greek alpha letter is (in mkiv) directly accessing the right glyph in 
the font; in mkiv mode it cna be either direct access, or fallback on 
math or ...

Hans

-
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   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
  | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letters in math with XeTeX

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Flavien Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 (Sorry for the preceding message, I forgot the [NTG-context] for filters...)

 Dear all, I try to use Open Type fonts with ConTeXt and XeTeX (I recently
 did the same with LaTeX using fontspec and mathspec packages). From the web
 site, I managed to use them for standard text as well as roman alphabet in
 math. Unfortunately, greek letters stay printed with the Latin Modern font.
 From examples of the web site, I tried the following lines but without
 success. In a preceding post, there was a similar question but with the
 luatex engine.
 Thanks for your help !

 \definetypeface[myface][rm][Xserif][GFS Didot]
 \definetypeface[myface][mm][math][GFS Didot]

No time for complete answer, but you need to define the whole
[math][GFS Didot] repertoaire first. This has no effect until you
define one.

Someone needs to write Unicode math support for mkii, or you need to
make your own virtual font.

See this file for example:
http://source.contextgarden.net/math-lbr.tex
in a similar way that would need to be done for general typefaces without math.

You might then be able to say something like
\definetypeface[myface][mm][Xmath][GFS Didot], though I'm 100%
sure that people would then start complaining very soon that they
either:
- want other math characters in their favorite font as well (like
plus, minus, brackets, ...), not only Greek letters
- complain that they don't get any symbol (no font has them all)

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek letters in math with XeTeX

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 Someone needs to write Unicode math support for mkii, or you need to
 make your own virtual font.

Well...someone also needs to write Unicode math support for mkiv and I 
would work on that in the hope that there is some chance that I may 
actually understand how mkiv (will) handle math fonts. With MKII, math 
fonts is black magic for me.

Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] greek

[Jörg Hagmann]

A postscript to greek issues:

As I wrote, everything works fine now---with Mark II, which is what I 
still use.

When I try context mygreekfile.tex, without any font specification, 
the following characters are missing:
lower case: c (end of word sigma), m (mu), and s (sigma)
upper case: same

If I specify font=Ibycus, it works fine
If I specify font=Teubner, I get no greek, just roman characters (but 
the same tex file works when compiled with texexec)
If I specify font=GreekGentium, I get no output (Invalid glyph index 
(git 1714) == Fatal error etc. Again, this works with texexec.

I'm using recent minimals (Contextgarden) on Mac OS X Leopard and ubuntu.

If it's got something to do with my not knowing how to deal with fonts 
in Mark IV (which is the case), just ignore this message. But if the 
reasons are deeper, it might be of interest to you.

Cheers, Jörg

Jörg Hagmann wrote:
 Thank you, it works nicely.

 Jörg

 Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
   
 On Aug 11, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Jörg Hagmann wrote:

   
 
 Thanks. Looking forward to the new version.
 
   
 New version has been uploaded; let me know if this one works

   
 
 B. \usemodule[oldgreek] works with the default font or with Teubner
 (mark ii and mark iv). But not with Gentium, although the TrueType
 fonts
 are installed in texmf-localfontstruetypegreekgentium:

   !pdfTeX error: pdftex (file gentium): Font gentium at 720 not  
 found
== Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!

 
   
 That's bizarre. What are the names of the truetype files that you  
 have
 installed?

   
 
 GenAI102.TTFGenAR102.TTFGenI102.TTFGenR102.TTF

 I didn't install these, they were in your zip. I downloaded from sil  
 but
 saw that they are the same.
 Maybe I chose the wrong name in my setup? I used
 \usemodule[oldgreek][font=Gentium] (also tried gentium and  
 Gentium102)

 
   
 Yes, it's font=GreekGentium

 I guess I need to include the documentation in the distribution again;  
 most users just don't seem to be able to read my mind... :-)

 Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Aug 12, 2008, at 9:46 AM, Jörg Hagmann wrote:

 A postscript to greek issues:

Thanks for the report.


 As I wrote, everything works fine now---with Mark II, which is what I
 still use.

 When I try context mygreekfile.tex, without any font specification,
 the following characters are missing:
 lower case: c (end of word sigma), m (mu), and s (sigma)
 upper case: same

 If I specify font=Ibycus, it works fine
 If I specify font=Teubner, I get no greek, just roman characters (but
 the same tex file works when compiled with texexec)
 If I specify font=GreekGentium, I get no output (Invalid glyph index
 (git 1714) == Fatal error etc. Again, this works with texexec.

 I'm using recent minimals (Contextgarden) on Mac OS X Leopard and  
 ubuntu.

 If it's got something to do with my not knowing how to deal with fonts
 in Mark IV (which is the case), just ignore this message. But if the
 reasons are deeper, it might be of interest to you.

No, that's a combination of my lack of enthusiasm for writing new  
documentation and your not reading the documentation which is provided  
(greekmodule.pdf, p. 3) :-) In a nutshell: when mkiv was new, I  
experimented around with support for Babel-like transliteration in  
mkiv, but it turned out to be very cumbersome and time-consuming  
because it has to be implemented for every font, one by one. I'm  
unlikely to go to this length because this ASCII input was just a  
stopgap when TeX was unable to digest 16-bit input. I've done it for a  
few fonts (such as GreekGentiumAlt), for my private amusement, but it  
just isn't worth the effort. The novelty of luatex lies just here: it  
processes utf8 by default, that's why I recommend using utf8 when  
writing Greek in mkiv; it works well in mkii, and there's no reason  
not to use it. The only thing that may be troublesome is when you have  
lots of old files. I have a converter written in python here which  
works reasonably well. Hans implemented one in lua (see $TEXMF/scripts/ 
context/lua/mtx-babel.lua) which is even better, but doesn't appear to  
work with the current version of mkiv. But I have to look at the  
default font, this one should work even with Babel.

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek

[Jörg Hagmann]

Hi Thomas,

Thanks for the explanations.
 Oh sorry, that's an error that crept in when handling of active  
 characters was changed a couple of weeks ago; I changed it in my own  
 copy on my box but forgot to upload a new version... Will upload today.
   
Thanks. Looking forward to the new version.
 B. \usemodule[oldgreek] works with the default font or with Teubner
 (mark ii and mark iv). But not with Gentium, although the TrueType  
 fonts
 are installed in texmf-localfontstruetypegreekgentium:

!pdfTeX error: pdftex (file gentium): Font gentium at 720 not found
 == Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!
 

 That's bizarre. What are the names of the truetype files that you have  
 installed?
   
GenAI102.TTFGenAR102.TTFGenI102.TTFGenR102.TTF

I didn't install these, they were in your zip. I downloaded from sil but 
saw that they are the same.
Maybe I chose the wrong name in my setup? I used 
\usemodule[oldgreek][font=Gentium] (also tried gentium and Gentium102)

Regards, Jörg
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Re: [NTG-context] greek

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Aug 11, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Jörg Hagmann wrote:


 Thanks. Looking forward to the new version.

New version has been uploaded; let me know if this one works


 B. \usemodule[oldgreek] works with the default font or with Teubner
 (mark ii and mark iv). But not with Gentium, although the TrueType
 fonts
 are installed in texmf-localfontstruetypegreekgentium:

   !pdfTeX error: pdftex (file gentium): Font gentium at 720 not  
 found
== Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!


 That's bizarre. What are the names of the truetype files that you  
 have
 installed?

 GenAI102.TTFGenAR102.TTFGenI102.TTFGenR102.TTF

 I didn't install these, they were in your zip. I downloaded from sil  
 but
 saw that they are the same.
 Maybe I chose the wrong name in my setup? I used
 \usemodule[oldgreek][font=Gentium] (also tried gentium and  
 Gentium102)

Yes, it's font=GreekGentium

I guess I need to include the documentation in the distribution again;  
most users just don't seem to be able to read my mind... :-)

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek

[Jörg Hagmann]

Thank you, it works nicely.

Jörg

Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
 On Aug 11, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Jörg Hagmann wrote:

   
 Thanks. Looking forward to the new version.
 

 New version has been uploaded; let me know if this one works

   
 B. \usemodule[oldgreek] works with the default font or with Teubner
 (mark ii and mark iv). But not with Gentium, although the TrueType
 fonts
 are installed in texmf-localfontstruetypegreekgentium:

   !pdfTeX error: pdftex (file gentium): Font gentium at 720 not  
 found
== Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!

 
 That's bizarre. What are the names of the truetype files that you  
 have
 installed?

   
 GenAI102.TTFGenAR102.TTFGenI102.TTFGenR102.TTF

 I didn't install these, they were in your zip. I downloaded from sil  
 but
 saw that they are the same.
 Maybe I chose the wrong name in my setup? I used
 \usemodule[oldgreek][font=Gentium] (also tried gentium and  
 Gentium102)

 
 Yes, it's font=GreekGentium

 I guess I need to include the documentation in the distribution again;  
 most users just don't seem to be able to read my mind... :-)

 Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Aug 4, 2008, at 4:49 PM, Jörg Hagmann wrote:

 Two questions concerning greek modules:

 2. I wanted to try the t-greek-2008.05.11 module and unzipped in
 texmf-local (where I keep my fonts). The  Greek in  proper context
 etc. articles seem to be outdated, but  from the sources I gathered  
 that
 \usemodule[ancientgreek] or \usemodule[oldgreek] may be used, the  
 latter
 only if the former doesn't work. I have the following problems/ 
 questions:

 A. \usemodule[ancientgreek] doesn't work (mark ii or mark iv). It  
 gives
 me, e.g.:

! Missing number, treated as zero.
to be read again
   \penalty
\CCC:4:126 -\penalty
  \plustenthousand \space
\defineactivecharacter ... {\string #1#2}\empty #1
  #2\else \uccode
\activehac...

\@@su:enablegreek ...vecharacter ~ {\lettertilde }

\defineactivecharacter | {...

\localgreek #1-\bgroup \directsetup {enablegreek}
  {#1}\egroup
l.6 \localgreek{mo~usa,}

?


Oh sorry, that's an error that crept in when handling of active  
characters was changed a couple of weeks ago; I changed it in my own  
copy on my box but forgot to upload a new version... Will upload today.


 B. \usemodule[oldgreek] works with the default font or with Teubner
 (mark ii and mark iv). But not with Gentium, although the TrueType  
 fonts
 are installed in texmf-localfontstruetypegreekgentium:

!pdfTeX error: pdftex (file gentium): Font gentium at 720 not found
 == Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!

That's bizarre. What are the names of the truetype files that you have  
installed?




 There is no pdf file in the doc directory. Maybe a new version is
 under construction?
 Why is it better to use the module ancientgreek?

t-ancientgreek makes use of ConTeXt typescripts. It allows use of  
fontswitches such as \em or \bf within Greek text. In the very remote  
past, I encountered some errors; that's why I provided the t-oldgreek  
which defines font in a more low-level way. It's really only a  
workaround and should probably disappear altogether; I haven't seen  
any of these errors in the past. It is also fairly agnostic concerning  
the engine (mkii or XeTeX or mkiv, though not all fonts will work with  
all versions) while t-oldgreek will only work with mkii.

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek

[Hans Hagen]

Jörg Hagmann wrote:
 Two questions concerning greek modules:
 
 1. I switched to the new minimal installation (on a Mac and an ubuntu 
 system) and noticed that I had to install the cb-fonts (for 
 \usemodule[greek]) myself. Will the fonts be included in the future? 
 (Just a question; I think they should be).

these fonts are so huge ... we expect gyre to solve part of this problem


-
   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
  | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[John Culleton]

On Saturday 26 July 2008 09:05:01 am Martin Schröder wrote:
 2008/7/25 Charles P. Schaum [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  Well, I can only say this: My best experiences for out of the
  box functionality are from Ubuntu. Like Debian, they have taken
  TeXlive and broken it up into a number of packages to allow for
  some installation

 Ahm - has Ubuntu done anything or are they just using the wonderful
 Debian packages?

  I like FreeBSD, but its ports system does not seem to have the
  same philosophy as TeXlive, or there are just too few working on
  it there. I mean, if Debian can do it, why don't the clever
  duckies just look at a few build scripts... So there you either
  have to use the prebuilt FreeBSD binaries and install it yourself
  or build it from source, which I rather like to do anyway. I
  haven't tried on the other BSD's.

 OpenBSD has a very good TL port; AFAIK the other BSDs are catching
 up.

 Best
Martin

I use texlive on Slackware. It also allows you to pick and choose what 
you install. My files end up in
/usr/local/texlive/2007

Slackware has the tetex package  in the Slackware distro but I always 
eliminate that one.  It is quite obsolete. 



-- 
John Culleton
Resources for every author and publisher:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf
http://www.creativemindspress.com/newbiefaq.htm
http://www.gropenassoc.com/TopLevelPages/reference%20desk.htm
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Martin Schröder]

2008/7/25 Charles P. Schaum [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Well, I can only say this: My best experiences for out of the box
 functionality are from Ubuntu. Like Debian, they have taken TeXlive and
 broken it up into a number of packages to allow for some installation

Ahm - has Ubuntu done anything or are they just using the wonderful
Debian packages?

 I like FreeBSD, but its ports system does not seem to have the same
 philosophy as TeXlive, or there are just too few working on it there. I
 mean, if Debian can do it, why don't the clever duckies just look at a
 few build scripts... So there you either have to use the prebuilt
 FreeBSD binaries and install it yourself or build it from source, which
 I rather like to do anyway. I haven't tried on the other BSD's.

OpenBSD has a very good TL port; AFAIK the other BSDs are catching up.

Best
   Martin
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Armando Martins]

Em Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:09:48 +0100, Thomas A. Schmitz  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu:


 On Jul 23, 2008, at 11:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 OpenSuse 10.3


 If memory serves right, SuSE has a few problems with its TeX setup:  
 http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20080320.203129.aec3fb49.en.html

 But this is not the problem now.

 How do you set up TeXLive from the
 CD?
 Having launched the apropriate file to my architecture (i-386-linux) I
 chose the option R (run from CDwithout installing).
 But now I put back again the texlive from Suse (pity because my disk
 is falling short of space).

 That's your problem: you now have several conflicting TeX installations.

Humm.. that twists my brains. I commented the variable pointing to the  
binaries of TeXLive CD in ~/.profile
Anyway...

 3. TeXLive 2008 will be out in a few days. If space is an issue on
 your system, you may not want to install it since it's pretty big, but
 it's what I use, and it's pretty straightforward. You have almost
 everything you'll ever need (ConTeXt, LaTeX, fonts, packages such as
 tikz, etc.), and the 2008 edition will include an update manager. The
 decisive step is again to put the path pointing to the TeXLive
 binaries first in your $PATH variable.

 You're just two steps away from success, so don't give up!

 Thomas

They seem two steps of giant for me (so far I have processed only one file  
with context, a pretty large one, 60 pp., but limiting myself to  
elementary features).
I think I will move away to Ubuntu or some other distro. At the moment I  
am unhappy with Suse (for other reasons than Tex).
For now I will give you a break (going on holiday).
Any advice about Tex friendly distros?


Thanks
Armand
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Charles P. Schaum]

On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 11:29 +0100, Armando Martins wrote:

 Any advice about Tex friendly distros?
 
 

Well, I can only say this: My best experiences for out of the box
functionality are from Ubuntu. Like Debian, they have taken TeXlive and
broken it up into a number of packages to allow for some installation
options and less bloat. Of course, you have the typical Linux ideology
thing going on, so they also take whatever the DFSG thinks to be
non-free and separate it out as its own package. Then they gzip the
docs so you have to gunzip them if you want to use Acrobat, for example.

MacTeX on OS X is really done quite well. I have no complaints. But you
need a Mac, or forget it.

I like FreeBSD, but its ports system does not seem to have the same
philosophy as TeXlive, or there are just too few working on it there. I
mean, if Debian can do it, why don't the clever duckies just look at a
few build scripts... So there you either have to use the prebuilt
FreeBSD binaries and install it yourself or build it from source, which
I rather like to do anyway. I haven't tried on the other BSD's.

I have generally found the Redhat family to be increasingly irksome for
a number of reasons, not the least of which are SELinux and YUM. The
same goes for SUSE, where YaST is king. I stopped using them before I
moved from TeTeX. I am intrigued by Gentoo and its portage, but haven't
tried it. And, just for grins, you can run good ole TeX on Plan 9.

My last MikTeX experience yielded non-portable DVI files, that meaning
all DVI viewers under Linux that I tried could not read a DVI generated
by MikTeX. I think PDF works, though. But it's Microsoft . . .

Charles

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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Jul 23, 2008, at 11:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 OpenSuse 10.3


If memory serves right, SuSE has a few problems with its TeX setup: 
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20080320.203129.aec3fb49.en.html

But this is not the problem now.

 How do you set up TeXLive from the
 CD?
 Having launched the apropriate file to my architecture (i-386-linux) I
 chose the option R (run from CDwithout installing).
 But now I put back again the texlive from Suse (pity because my disk
 is falling short of space).

That's your problem: you now have several conflicting TeX installations.



 How do you set up the minimals?

 In the shell:
 ~/context/tex/setuptex ~/context/tex



 2. Run the following commands and tell us the output:

 echo $PATH
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ echo $PATH
 /opt/kde3/bin:/home/adsm/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/ 
 X11:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/games:/usr/lib/jvm/jre/bin:/usr/lib/mit/bin:/ 
 usr/lib/mit/sbin

As you can see here, the binaries from the minimals are not in your  
PATH.




 which kpsewhich
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ which kpsewhich
 /usr/bin/kpsewhich

This is a leftover from your SuSE TeX install.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXMF'
 {/home/adsm/texmf,!!/etc/texmf,!!/var/lib/texmf,!!/usr/share/ 
 texmf,!!/usr/local/share/texmf,!!/usr/share/texmf/contrib}


Which means that only the TEXMF-trees of SuSE's installation are found.


 kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXINPUTS'
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXINPUTS'
 :/home/adsm/.TeX:/usr/share/doc/.TeX:/usr/doc/.TeX


 which texhash
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ which texhash
 /usr/bin/texhash



 sudo texhash


 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ sudo texhash
 Palavra passe:
 texhash: Updating /etc/texmf/ls-R...
 texhash: Updating /usr/share/texmf/../../../var/lib/texmf/db/ls-R...
 texhash: Updating /var/cache/fonts/ls-R...
 texhash: Updating /var/lib/texmf/ls-R...
 texhash: Done.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~





 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek ls
 t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex  type-agr.mkii  type-agr.tex
 t-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type-agr.mkiv


 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek
 ~/context/tex/setuptex ~/context/tex
 Setting /home/adsm/context/tex as TEXROOT.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek
 kpsewhere t-ancientgreek.tex
 ./t-ancientgreek.tex
 ./t-ancientgreek.tex
 ./t-ancientgreek.tex


This doesn't mean anything; TeX will always search the current  
directory first, that's why the module is found. You have several ways  
to proceed:

1. Use the minimals. In that case, you will have to set the directory  
which contains the binaries for your platform FIRST in your path  
variable. Assuming you are using bash, a command like this should do  
this:

PATH=/home/adsm/context/tex/texmf-linux/bin:$PATH
export PATH

Then, to be sure, run

echo $PATH

again.  If all goes well, you should now see /home/adsm/context/tex/ 
texmf-linux/bin as first item in your $PATH. The binaries here will be  
found first and thus used. Try the commands with kpsewhere and  
which again (the ones in my previous mail). ConTeXt should now be  
able to find the module. If this works, we'll tell you how to make  
these changes happen automatically at login.

2. Use the SuSE TeX installation. In that case, you'll need to modify  
the texmf.cnf that SuSE installs. Possible, but maybe a bit  
overwhelming for a newbie, not recommended. (The only advantage is  
that in this case, TeX would be controlled by SuSE's package manager,  
but since the SuSE team are not overly interested in TeX and don't do  
frequent updates, this is not a real advantage.)

3. TeXLive 2008 will be out in a few days. If space is an issue on  
your system, you may not want to install it since it's pretty big, but  
it's what I use, and it's pretty straightforward. You have almost  
everything you'll ever need (ConTeXt, LaTeX, fonts, packages such as  
tikz, etc.), and the 2008 edition will include an update manager. The  
decisive step is again to put the path pointing to the TeXLive  
binaries first in your $PATH variable.

You're just two steps away from success, so don't give up!

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Armando Martins]

Em Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:18:49 +0100, Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
escreveu:

 On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Citando Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, cidadaum at sapo.pt wrote:


 Where did you unzip the module?

 Aditya

 Here:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek ls
 t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex  type-agr.mkii  type-agr.tex
 t-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type-agr.mkiv
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek

 The fonts are in:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf/fonts/

 If you are in the directory of your document, what does

 kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex

 and

 luatools t-ancientgreek.tex

 return?

 Humm... this:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ luatools t-ancientgreek.tex
 the file 'luatools.lua' is not found
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~

 (Suppose something is wrong...). By the way I am using TexLive from a
 CD along with context minimals.

 The fact that luatools is not working does not matter too much since you
 are using mkii. But kpsewhich not returning anything means that ConTeXt
 does not know where the greek module is, and hence cannot find it. Try
 running

 mktexlsr


I have done it.

 and see if kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex returns a path to the file.

No it does not return a path.

Armando

 Aditya

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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Armando Martins wrote:

 (Suppose something is wrong...). By the way I am using TexLive  
 from a
 CD along with context minimals.

We need more information:

1. What is your operating system? How do you set up TeXLive from the  
CD? How do you set up the minimals?

2. Run the following commands and tell us the output:

echo $PATH

which kpsewhich

kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXMF'

kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXINPUTS'

which texhash

sudo texhash

As long as TeX can't find the module files, neither mkii nor mkiv will  
work, so that's the first and most important point.

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[cidadaum]

Citando Thomas A. Schmitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Armando Martins wrote:

 (Suppose something is wrong...). By the way I am using TexLive
 from a
 CD along with context minimals.

 We need more information:

 1. What is your operating system?

OpenSuse 10.3

 How do you set up TeXLive from the
 CD?
Having launched the apropriate file to my architecture (i-386-linux) I  
chose the option R (run from CDwithout installing).
But now I put back again the texlive from Suse (pity because my disk  
is falling short of space).

 How do you set up the minimals?

In the shell:
~/context/tex/setuptex ~/context/tex



 2. Run the following commands and tell us the output:

 echo $PATH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ echo $PATH
/opt/kde3/bin:/home/adsm/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/games:/usr/lib/jvm/jre/bin:/usr/lib/mit/bin:/usr/lib/mit/sbin


 which kpsewhich
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ which kpsewhich
/usr/bin/kpsewhich


 kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXMF'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXMF'
{/home/adsm/texmf,!!/etc/texmf,!!/var/lib/texmf,!!/usr/share/texmf,!!/usr/local/share/texmf,!!/usr/share/texmf/contrib}


 kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXINPUTS'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhich -expand-var '$TEXINPUTS'
:/home/adsm/.TeX:/usr/share/doc/.TeX:/usr/doc/.TeX


 which texhash
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ which texhash
/usr/bin/texhash



 sudo texhash


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ sudo texhash
Palavra passe:
texhash: Updating /etc/texmf/ls-R...
texhash: Updating /usr/share/texmf/../../../var/lib/texmf/db/ls-R...
texhash: Updating /var/cache/fonts/ls-R...
texhash: Updating /var/lib/texmf/ls-R...
texhash: Done.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek ls
t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex  type-agr.mkii  type-agr.tex
t-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type-agr.mkiv


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek  
~/context/tex/setuptex ~/context/tex
Setting /home/adsm/context/tex as TEXROOT.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek  
kpsewhere t-ancientgreek.tex
./t-ancientgreek.tex
./t-ancientgreek.tex
./t-ancientgreek.tex

Armando

 As long as TeX can't find the module files, neither mkii nor mkiv will
 work, so that's the first and most important point.

 Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, cidadaum at sapo.pt wrote:


 Where did you unzip the module?

 Aditya

 Here:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek ls
 t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex  type-agr.mkii  type-agr.tex
 t-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type-agr.mkiv
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek

 The fonts are in:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf/fonts/

If you are in the directory of your document, what does

kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex

and

luatools t-ancientgreek.tex

return?

Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[cidadaum]

Citando Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, cidadaum at sapo.pt wrote:


 Where did you unzip the module?

 Aditya

 Here:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek ls
 t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex  type-agr.mkii  type-agr.tex
 t-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type-agr.mkiv
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek

 The fonts are in:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf/fonts/

 If you are in the directory of your document, what does

 kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex

 and

 luatools t-ancientgreek.tex

 return?

Humm... this:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ luatools t-ancientgreek.tex
the file 'luatools.lua' is not found
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~

(Suppose something is wrong...). By the way I am using TexLive from a  
CD along with context minimals.


 Aditya


Armando



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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Citando Aditya Mahajan [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, cidadaum at sapo.pt wrote:


 Where did you unzip the module?

 Aditya

 Here:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek ls
 t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex  type-agr.mkii  type-agr.tex
 t-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type-agr.mkiv
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/third/greek

 The fonts are in:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/context/tex/texmf/fonts/

 If you are in the directory of your document, what does

 kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex

 and

 luatools t-ancientgreek.tex

 return?

 Humm... this:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ luatools t-ancientgreek.tex
 the file 'luatools.lua' is not found
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~

 (Suppose something is wrong...). By the way I am using TexLive from a
 CD along with context minimals.

The fact that luatools is not working does not matter too much since you 
are using mkii. But kpsewhich not returning anything means that ConTeXt 
does not know where the greek module is, and hence cannot find it. Try 
running

mktexlsr

and see if kpsewhich t-ancientgreek.tex returns a path to the file.

Aditya

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Re: [NTG-context] greek again

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I am trying to use the greek module. It is installed but all I can get
 is greek without diacritics.
 Here is the log file:


 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ more greek_exp.log

 system  : module ancientgreek not found

Where did you unzip the module?

Aditya


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Re: [NTG-context] Greek Module

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On May 10, 2008, at 7:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think I have managed to do the installation:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhere t-ancientgreek.tex
 /usr/local/share/texmf/tex/context/third/t-ancientgreek.tex


This looks good!


 Still I am missing something else because texexec doesn't go  
 through. texexec greek_try.tex hangs on with this message:


And this looks bad - actually, my bad: I was too quick and forgot to  
include the tfm-files in the zip. Sorry for the oversight. I'll upload  
a new version ASAP and send it to you via private mail. Again sorry,  
this is very frustrating for someone who is just learning to use  
ConTeXt. It should work if you use XeTeX or luatex, but I'm not sure  
if you're ready for that yet.

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:36 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Two explanations are possible (there was no attachment to your mail)

  Indeed no. I gave up when I received the e-mail saying my message was
  waiting for approval. I apologise.

Waiting for approval because of too big attachment?

   - your ConTeXt is too old. OpenSuSE has TeXLive 2007, I guess, so you
   should update ConTeXt.

  Right. My Context is from 2007. The point is that I am so clumsy about
  installing something on OpenSuse/Linux (I have a Windows machine using
  MikTex, suppose that doesn't help) that I do it always on line with a
  repo.

MikTeX does help. Quite some users report that the latest version of
ConTeXt is currently broken though (and yesterday updating MikTeX was
broken). I had no chance to check, but in theory it should work (you
need to use MikTeX 2.7). I guess that even the module itself is
included in MikTeX.

 Download and install rpm packages (or other files) rarely turns
  out to be good. But anyway I have tried to install according to the
  recipe I found on wiki
  (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Linux_User_Installation). Didn't
  manage. If you have no other suggestion I can try again and post the
  result.

Those instructions are a bit out-of-date (the problem is that the zips
on PRAGMA are rather old). I will fix the instructions.

Can you try this?
mkdir context  cd context
rsync -ptv rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/setup/first-setup.sh .
./first-setup.sh
and then put something like
. ~/context/setuptex ~/context
to .bash_profile or .bashrc or only execute that command once you need
it (it will shield your global tex installation, but you can remove it
at any time).

This will only install a local copy.

If you need to fix the global installation, one option is to update
only ConTeXt files, for example with
   rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/current/
location-of-your-distro/texmf-something
(test to a temporary location first)

But:
- you also need to update LM fonts
- I would also suggest to update the xetex and xdvipdfmx binary in
that case. XeTeX before winter works extremely slowly with latest
ConTeXt

  CONTEXT expects a plain ASCII input file. Of course you can use any
  texteditor or wordprocessor
  you want, but you should not forget that CONTEXT can only read ASCII
  input. Most
  texteditors or wordprocessors can export your file as plain ASCII.

That's not true. Maybe it was in the past, but you can use UTF-8
without a problem now.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module

[cidadaum]

Citando Mojca Miklavec [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:36 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Two explanations are possible (there was no attachment to your mail)

  Indeed no. I gave up when I received the e-mail saying my message was
  waiting for approval. I apologise.

 Waiting for approval because of too big attachment?

Suppose no. It was a log file.


   - your ConTeXt is too old. OpenSuSE has TeXLive 2007, I guess, so you
   should update ConTeXt.

  Right. My Context is from 2007. The point is that I am so clumsy about
  installing something on OpenSuse/Linux (I have a Windows machine using
  MikTex, suppose that doesn't help) that I do it always on line with a
  repo.

 MikTeX does help. Quite some users report that the latest version of
 ConTeXt is currently broken though (and yesterday updating MikTeX was
 broken). I had no chance to check, but in theory it should work (you
 need to use MikTeX 2.7). I guess that even the module itself is
 included in MikTeX.

I have MikTex 2.7. I uninstalled and installed again because it  
couldn't build the format for ConTeXt. Now it builds but texexec  
--version does not produce any output. MikTex help list says one  
should have perl and ruby - which I have (I checked the environment  
variables and ruby is not there; this can be the cause but I don't  
know how to add it). Anyway I will stick to Linux first.


 Download and install rpm packages (or other files) rarely turns
  out to be good. But anyway I have tried to install according to the
  recipe I found on wiki
  (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Linux_User_Installation). Didn't
  manage. If you have no other suggestion I can try again and post the
  result.

 Those instructions are a bit out-of-date (the problem is that the zips
 on PRAGMA are rather old). I will fix the instructions.

 Can you try this?
   mkdir context  cd context
   rsync -ptv rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/setup/first-setup.sh .
   ./first-setup.sh
 and then put something like
   . ~/context/setuptex ~/context
 to .bash_profile or .bashrc or only execute that command once you need
 it (it will shield your global tex installation, but you can remove it
 at any time).

 This will only install a local copy.

 If you need to fix the global installation, one option is to update
 only ConTeXt files, for example with
rsync -av rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/context/current/
 location-of-your-distro/texmf-something
 (test to a temporary location first)

 But:
 - you also need to update LM fonts
 - I would also suggest to update the xetex and xdvipdfmx binary in
 that case. XeTeX before winter works extremely slowly with latest
 ConTeXt


Thanks for your help. I will try one of those solutions.
A final remark. I didn't say this (bellow quoted), it is written in  
one of the manuals (mp-cb-en.pdf), page 4:

  CONTEXT expects a plain ASCII input file. Of course you can use any
  texteditor or wordprocessor
  you want, but you should not forget that CONTEXT can only read ASCII
  input. Most
  texteditors or wordprocessors can export your file as plain ASCII.

 That's not true. Maybe it was in the past, but you can use UTF-8
 without a problem now.

 Mojca


Armando

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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:06 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Right. My Context is from 2007. The point is that I am so clumsy about
installing something on OpenSuse/Linux (I have a Windows machine using
MikTex, suppose that doesn't help) that I do it always on line with a
repo.
  
   MikTeX does help. Quite some users report that the latest version of
   ConTeXt is currently broken though (and yesterday updating MikTeX was
   broken). I had no chance to check, but in theory it should work (you
   need to use MikTeX 2.7). I guess that even the module itself is
   included in MikTeX.

  I have MikTex 2.7. I uninstalled and installed again because it
  couldn't build the format for ConTeXt. Now it builds but texexec
  --version does not produce any output.

Read my other post about MikTeX  ConTeXt. Try to run (single line):
   ruby C:\Program Files\MiKTeX
2.7\scripts\context\ruby\texmfstart.rb texexec filename.tex

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On May 2, 2008, at 10:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I see...
 I cringe so much of

Don't. We've all been beginners once and needed help. You just need to  
learn to follow a systematic approach and read replies to your  
questions more carefully...

 Oh boy. This is really not the place where your personal additions to
 your TeX installation should go.

 Please, where is the right place?

That was indicated in my reply to your first question; quoting myself:

I would
advise, however, to install additional packages either to the local
texmf tree or to you personal tree. These are defined in the file /etc/
texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf as
TEXMFLOCAL = /usr/local/share/texmf

and

TEXMFHOME = $HOME/TEXMF

The point is: when SuSE installs a new version of texlive, it will  
simply overwrite your files (even if you have edited them) or delete  
the old directories. Moreover, if you make a mistake here, you can  
simply erase the directory and start over. That's why it is considered  
good practice to keep ths distribution files and your local/personal  
additions separate.

 Right. My Context is from 2007. The point is that I am so clumsy about
 installing something on OpenSuse/Linux (I have a Windows machine using
 MikTex, suppose that doesn't help) that I do it always on line with a
 repo. Download and install rpm packages (or other files) rarely turns
 out to be good. But anyway I have tried to install according to the
 recipe I found on wiki
 (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Linux_User_Installation). Didn't
 manage. If you have no other suggestion I can try again and post the
 result.

OK, there are several problems here:

1. SuSE's texlive installation has some problems, esp. when you try to  
use luatex;

2. the latest ConTeXt release will also need the latest latin modern  
fonts, which (I guess) are not available as a package for SuSE yet.

3. This being said, it is entirely possible to update ConTeXt within  
your SuSE texlive installation (I have been doing this for several  
years now).
- create directory /usr/local/share/texmf
- cd /usr/local/share/texmf
- sudo wget http://www.pragma-ade.com/context/current/cont-tmf.zip
- sudo unzip cont-tmf.zip
- sudo texhash
- sudo texexec --make --all --pdftex
- sudo texexec --make --all --xtx

 Which manual says
 that ConTeXt expects pure ASCII input?

 This one: mp-cb-en.pdf. Quoting from page 1:

 CONTEXT expects a plain ASCII input file. Of course you can use any
 texteditor or wordprocessor
 you want, but you should not forget that CONTEXT can only read ASCII
 input. Most
 texteditors or wordprocessors can export your file as plain ASCII.

OK, you're right. This is really obsolete (and has been so for several  
years). We've been collecting such things for a while now, but this is  
seriously misleading.

Hans, any chance of regenerating the m*-cb-en.pdfs and taking this  
paragraph out?

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:46 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Another issue: Xetex says repeatedly (as you can see on the attached file)

(there was no file attached)

  ! Undefined control sequence.
  l.5 \beginOLDTEX

I cannot answer the greek-specific questions, but I guess that your
ConTeXt might be too old. Can you try to update ConTeXt and try again?

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On May 2, 2008, at 11:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I managed to install the greek module. Here is where it is placed:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third ls
 t-ancientgreek
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third cd t-ancientgreek/
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third/t-ancientgreek ls
 fontst-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type- 
 agr.mkiv
 t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex   type-agr.mkii   type-agr.tex
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third/t-ancientgreek

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhere t-ancientgreek.tex
 /etc/texmf/tex/context/third/t-ancientgreek/t-ancientgreek.tex


Oh boy. This is really not the place where your personal additions to  
your TeX installation should go. But if it can find the files in this  
location, let's take it from there.

 The point  now is that I need to build the fonts (or build the  
 metric =20
 files of the fonts). So need to use texfont, am I right? One  
 mandatory =20
 argument is the vendor's name. Which name should I type for  
 GFSDidot, =20
 GFSPorson, Ibycus, Gentium?

No, the entire point is that the module comes with these metric files;  
I have prepared all this and run texfont for you. Plus, you don't need  
any metrical files for XeTeX. I have included a couple of fonts too,  
so you should be good to go. Try a minimal file:

\enableregime[utf]
\usemodule[ancientgreek][font=GFSPorson]

\starttext

test: \localgreek{Μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά}

\stoptext

 Another issue: Xetex says repeatedly (as you can see on the attached  
 file)

 ! Undefined control sequence.
 l.5 \beginOLDTEX

Two explanations are possible (there was no attachment to your mail):
- you're not using ConTeXt. you should invoke it with texexec --xtx  
yourfilename.tex
- your ConTeXt is too old. OpenSuSE has TeXLive 2007, I guess, so you  
should update ConTeXt.


 I ask if there is no compatibility between Xetex and greekmodule can  
 I =20
 use Context with unicode (utf8) input (the manual which I suppose is  
 =20
 quite outdated says Context expects pure ASCII input)?

As I said, with the latest version, you should be able to use all  
engines. So you can use ConTeXt with utf8 input (you have to include  
the \enableregime[utf] line at the beginning of the file) or XeTeX  
(which will only work with utf8-input) or luatex. Which manual says  
that ConTeXt expects pure ASCII input?

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module

[cidadaum]

I see...
I cringe so much of
Citando Thomas A. Schmitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 On May 2, 2008, at 11:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I managed to install the greek module. Here is where it is placed:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third ls
 t-ancientgreek
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third cd t-ancientgreek/
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third/t-ancientgreek ls
 fontst-ancientgreek.mkiv  t-oldgreek.tex  type-
 agr.mkiv
 t-ancientgreek.mkii  t-ancientgreek.tex   type-agr.mkii   type-agr.tex
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/texmf/tex/context/third/t-ancientgreek

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ kpsewhere t-ancientgreek.tex
 /etc/texmf/tex/context/third/t-ancientgreek/t-ancientgreek.tex


 Oh boy. This is really not the place where your personal additions to
 your TeX installation should go.

Please, where is the right place?

 But if it can find the files in this
 location, let's take it from there.

 The point  now is that I need to build the fonts (or build the
 metric =20
 files of the fonts). So need to use texfont, am I right? One
 mandatory =20
 argument is the vendor's name. Which name should I type for
 GFSDidot, =20
 GFSPorson, Ibycus, Gentium?

 No, the entire point is that the module comes with these metric files;
 I have prepared all this and run texfont for you. Plus, you don't need
 any metrical files for XeTeX. I have included a couple of fonts too,
 so you should be good to go. Try a minimal file:

 \enableregime[utf]
 \usemodule[ancientgreek][font=GFSPorson]

 \starttext

 test: \localgreek{? ?, ???}

 \stoptext

 Another issue: Xetex says repeatedly (as you can see on the attached
 file)

 ! Undefined control sequence.
 l.5 \beginOLDTEX

 Two explanations are possible (there was no attachment to your mail)

Indeed no. I gave up when I received the e-mail saying my message was  
waiting for approval. I apologise.

:
 - you're not using ConTeXt. you should invoke it with texexec --xtx
 yourfilename.tex

No. I am doing exactly that: texexec --xtx myfilename.tex

 - your ConTeXt is too old. OpenSuSE has TeXLive 2007, I guess, so you
 should update ConTeXt.

Right. My Context is from 2007. The point is that I am so clumsy about  
installing something on OpenSuse/Linux (I have a Windows machine using  
MikTex, suppose that doesn't help) that I do it always on line with a  
repo. Download and install rpm packages (or other files) rarely turns  
out to be good. But anyway I have tried to install according to the  
recipe I found on wiki  
(http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Linux_User_Installation). Didn't  
manage. If you have no other suggestion I can try again and post the  
result.




 I ask if there is no compatibility between Xetex and greekmodule can
 I =20
 use Context with unicode (utf8) input (the manual which I suppose is
 =20
 quite outdated says Context expects pure ASCII input)?

 As I said, with the latest version, you should be able to use all
 engines. So you can use ConTeXt with utf8 input (you have to include
 the \enableregime[utf] line at the beginning of the file) or XeTeX
 (which will only work with utf8-input) or luatex. Which manual says
 that ConTeXt expects pure ASCII input?

This one: mp-cb-en.pdf. Quoting from page 1:

CONTEXT expects a plain ASCII input file. Of course you can use any  
texteditor or wordprocessor
you want, but you should not forget that CONTEXT can only read ASCII  
input. Most
texteditors or wordprocessors can export your file as plain ASCII.

I will try to run the file and I will post the output later on.
Thanks for your patience.
Armando


 Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module still in use?

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On May 1, 2008, at 4:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have unzipped the folder to my texmf tree so it looks like this:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ cd /usr/share/texmf
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/texmf ls
 bibtex  context  dvipsls-R   mft  text- 
 greek-2008.04.30
 bin doc  fmtutil  makeindex  scripts  texconfig  web2c
 chktex  dvipdfm  fontsmetafont   teTeXtexmf  xdvi
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/texmf

 Then I ran texhash.
 I am using Linux OpenSuse 10.3 KDE.

 armando martins

OK, there's nothing inherently wrong with what you did. I would  
advise, however, to install additional packages either to the local  
texmf tree or to you personal tree. These are defined in the file /etc/ 
texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf as
TEXMFLOCAL = /usr/local/share/texmf

and

TEXMFHOME = $HOME/TEXMF

You have unzipped into the main tree, so it should work as well. I  
would ask you to make sure that the important files are in the right  
position, so run

ls /usr/share/texmf/tex/context/third

and that the files are seen by TeX, so run

kpsewhere t-ancientgreek.tex

Post the output of these commands.

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module still in use?

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Apr 30, 2008, at 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is the greek module still in use?
 I have been trying to use it wiht xetex but texexec says can't find
 module ancient greek. I have have some quotations in Ancient Greek.
 the font I am using is palatino.

I haven't finished adapting the module with XeTeX, but the error you  
report has nothing to do with XeTeX; it simply shows that you haven't  
installed the module in the right way. But more information is needed  
to help you.

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek module still in use?

[cidadaum]

 I haven't finished adapting the module with XeTeX, but the error you
 report has nothing to do with XeTeX; it simply shows that you haven't
 installed the module in the right way. But more information is needed
 to help you.

I have unzipped the folder to my texmf tree so it looks like this:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ cd /usr/share/texmf
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/texmf ls
bibtex  context  dvipsls-R   mft  text-greek-2008.04.30
bin doc  fmtutil  makeindex  scripts  texconfig  web2c
chktex  dvipdfm  fontsmetafont   teTeXtexmf  xdvi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/texmf

Then I ran texhash.
I am using Linux OpenSuse 10.3 KDE.

armando martins

Citando Thomas A. Schmitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 On Apr 30, 2008, at 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is the greek module still in use?
 I have been trying to use it wiht xetex but texexec says can't find
 module ancient greek. I have have some quotations in Ancient Greek.
 the font I am using is palatino.

 I haven't finished adapting the module with XeTeX, but the error you
 report has nothing to do with XeTeX; it simply shows that you haven't
 installed the module in the right way. But more information is needed
 to help you.

 Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 2:40 AM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

 I have noticed that ConTeXt uses gr for Greek, but the ISO code
 seems to be el. Less problematic: should agr be grc instead?
 (OpenType uses PGR, but I'm not sure if that's the same thing.)

 What do the Greek experts say?


Hi Mojca,

I have no strong opinion regarding gr/el, but what would grc stand  
for?

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Arthur Reutenauer]

 No! deo ist modern German in old orthography (pre-2005).

  OK, so I guess that's what RFC 4646 suggests de-1996 for -- I suppose
the reform was first introduced in 1996 and adopted only later?  See
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4646.txt, page 13 (Mojca, the
preceding paragraph is for you ;-)

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Arthur Reutenauer]

 Norwegian (which is not a language at all)

  Nobody reacted to that part, so I guess that means no one
knowledgeable in Norwegian read it  ...  I wish to make sure that we did
not by no mean intend on insulting Norway or Norwegian-speaking people ;-)
We are only trying to sort things out and would like to know which form
of the written language the Norwegian translation of the ConTeXt
interface uses, namely bokmål (literary language a.k.a riksmål a.k.a
Danish Norwegian), or nynorsk (new Norwegian a.k.a. landsmål).

  I suspect it's bokmål but if someone could confirm that it would be
very kind; just look for \startmessages norwegian in the ConTeXt
sources.  If the question does not make sense and the messages could be
bokmål as well as nynorsk, that's also an interesting information.  I
happen to have a small manual of Norwegian but it teaches only bokmål so
that does help much (nor does my comprehensive edition of Grieg's songs :-)

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 12/5/07, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
  Norwegian (which is not a language at all)

   Nobody reacted to that part, so I guess that means no one
 knowledgeable in Norwegian read it  ...  I wish to make sure that we did
 not by no mean intend on insulting Norway or Norwegian-speaking people ;-)
 We are only trying to sort things out and would like to know which form
 of the written language the Norwegian translation of the ConTeXt
 interface uses, namely bokmål (literary language a.k.a riksmål a.k.a
 Danish Norwegian), or nynorsk (new Norwegian a.k.a. landsmål).

   I suspect it's bokmål but if someone could confirm that it would be
 very kind; just look for \startmessages norwegian in the ConTeXt
 sources.  If the question does not make sense and the messages could be
 bokmål as well as nynorsk, that's also an interesting information.  I
 happen to have a small manual of Norwegian but it teaches only bokmål so
 that does help much (nor does my comprehensive edition of Grieg's songs :-)

I have patches written by Karl Ove Hufthammer (on 4th Februar, 2007). See
[dev-context] Improved support for Norwegian in ConTeXt
Bun we have never met an agreement (never tried too hard) of how it
should be implemented, and Karl didn't insist enough, so it has
slipped out of focus.

I still have a bad conscious about that.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Hans Hagen]

Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
 
 On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
 
 It's the ISO-639-2 alpha-3 code for Greek, Ancient (to 1453) -- May
 29th, I believe ;-)

  See http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ISO-639-2_utf-8.txt

 Arthur
 
 Ah, thanks! In that case, yes, let's go for grc. I had no idea ISO was 
 working retroactively as well... Hans, I will look for agr in the 
 sources and send you patches, OK?

sure


-
   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
  | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Wolfgang Schuster]

2007/12/5, Mojca Miklavec [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hello,

 I have noticed that ConTeXt uses gr for Greek, but the ISO code
 seems to be el. Less problematic: should agr be grc instead?
 (OpenType uses PGR, but I'm not sure if that's the same thing.)

 What do the Greek experts say?


 Well, English is a story on its own. us and uk don't have their
 own codes as a separate language, and even worse: uk should stand for
 Ukrainian!!!

 Norwegian (which is not a language at all) should be patched
 (according to an old user request) once.

 A similar problem exists with:
 - Chinese (cn instead of zn)
 - Czech (cz instead of cs)
 - Vietnamese (vn instead of vi)
 - Ukrainian (ua instead of uk!!!)

 A case where I have no opinion:
 - deo

 Some languages have already changed their codes in the past:
 - Spanish: sp - es
 - German: du - de
 - Slovenian: si - sl (no trace left, I hope :)

 My proposal would be to change:
 - gr - el
 - agr - grc
 - cz - cs
 - vn - vi
 - deo - ? (if at all)
  gmh - German, Middle High (ca.1050-1500)
  goh - German, Old High (ca.750-1050)
 - cn - zn (with *lots of care*)

 And to keep all the needed synonyms. (Besides that: to issue a warning
 if possible.)

 I have no idea what to do with Ukrainian and UK though.

 -

 Another issue: some languages need some little modifications or alternatives:

 1.) In German, Slovenian, Croatian, (maybe in other languages as well)
 ... one can use two types of quotes:
 - „ U+201E/U+201C  ‚' U+201A/U+2018 (sorry, a bug in gmail reencodes them)
 - »« U+00BB/U+00AB  ›‹ U+203A/U+2039

It is also common two write «text ‹text› text» in German.

 It might make sense to be able to say something similar to
 \mainlanguage
 [german]
 [quotes | quotationmarks | quotationstyle =
 guillemots | guillemets   or   comma | ninesix]


 2.) I could imagine a Serbian user to request being able to typeset in
 two scritpts (Latin or Cyrillic). That means:
 - different labels
 - loading different hyphenation patterns (even though transcription in
 either direction can be made on the fly - I can confirm that a user
 has already asked me if I know how to input text in cyrillic and get
 output in latin - as he wasn't fluent in reading Cyrillic, he wanted
 to misuse ConTeXt to help him read texts from web)

 So I could imagine making Cyrillic the default script, but still
 letting one to use

 \mainlanguage
 [serbian]
 [script=latin,
  % or even (if any user would be enthusiastic enough to provide code)
  transliteration=on]

 and get latin labels and hyphenation patterns.


 3.) Solve the problem with English in a more elegant way:

 \mainlanguage
 [english]
 [alternative=us]

 or

 \mainlanguage[en][US] % as in en_US.UTF-8
 \mainlanguage[en][GB]
 \mainlanguage[en][AU]
 \mainlanguage[de][AT] % if one ever figures out that German from
 Germany isn't good enough

 Then, [us] should be kept as a synonym for \mainlanguage[en][US].

 (The examples above could also be called via
 \mainlanguage[de][alternative=guillemets] or

As mentioned above this won't work.

 \mainlanguage[sr][alternative=latin].)


 4.) deo
 \mainlanguage[de][alternative=old] ??? (no idea what that is about)

The old rules should't be used any longer :-)

 Note that 1.) could be combined (should be combinable) with this one.

 Any thoughts?

I think we should keep the current syntax with mkii and allow better control
in the mkiv code.

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

2007/12/5, Arthur Reutenauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  No! deo ist modern German in old orthography (pre-2005).

   OK, so I guess that's what RFC 4646 suggests de-1996 for -- I suppose
 the reform was first introduced in 1996 and adopted only later?  See
 ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4646.txt, page 13 (Mojca, the
 preceding paragraph is for you ;-)


Maybe; we've now the 42th reform of the reform - a lot is back to pre-reform
orthography (or both styles are allowed).
2005 was only a estimation - AFAIR in 2005 the reformed orthography became
standard for schools and public authorities.

Greetlings, Hraban
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:20 AM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:


It's the ISO-639-2 alpha-3 code for Greek, Ancient (to 1453) -- May
29th, I believe ;-)

 See http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ISO-639-2_utf-8.txt

Arthur


Ah, thanks! In that case, yes, let's go for grc. I had no idea ISO was  
working retroactively as well... Hans, I will look for agr in the  
sources and send you patches, OK?


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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 Hello,
 
 I have noticed that ConTeXt uses gr for Greek, but the ISO code
 seems to be el. Less problematic: should agr be grc instead?
 (OpenType uses PGR, but I'm not sure if that's the same thing.)
 
 What do the Greek experts say?

etc etc

note: this language inventory is part of introducing dynamic feature 
support in mkiv, which boils down to automatic adaption to languages and 
such; for this we need relationships between scripts, languages, otf 
tags etc

Hans

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  | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek: GR or EL? Czech: CZ or CS? UK: Ukrainian or ...

[Arthur Reutenauer]

 I have no strong opinion regarding gr/el, but what would grc stand  
 for?

  It's the ISO-639-2 alpha-3 code for Greek, Ancient (to 1453) -- May
29th, I believe ;-)

  See http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ISO-639-2_utf-8.txt

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Hans Hagen]

Hi Arthur and Thomas,

i've put the greek file in the distribution (fea path), do we also need 
this babel stuff for u and such?

we should start thinking about a set of predefined features

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Taco Hoekwater]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
As a far as I understand, this
 behaviour is actually compliant with the Opentype specifications and is
 quite widespread among typesetting engines and so it is not (only)
 Fontforge's fault; but, needless to say, it is nevertheless annoying.
 (In more crude terms: Opentype does not specify anything in that respect,
 so manufacturers of typesetting software can do whatever they want ...)

The specification says that lookups should be applied in LookupList
order. Featurefiles don't have an explicit ordering command, but that
does not mean that ordering should be irrelevant. So I think this
is a bug in the version of fontforge I am using in luatex. I will do
some testing.

Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi guys,

Try this ordering:

 lookup GreekBabelLookupMultiple {
 ...
 } GreekBabelLookupMultiple ;
 
 lookup GreekBabelLookupSimple {
   ...
 } GreekBabelLookupSimple ;
 


Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Arthur Reutenauer]

 Try this ordering:

  Yes, it works. So Fontforge is sensitive to the order in which the lookups
are defined in the file? Interesting ...

  Thomas, you can try this but I have made a mistake in the Unicode code
for omega with subscribed iota: it should be 1FF3 and not 1FD3.

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Sep 16, 2007, at 3:08 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:

  Yes, it works. So Fontforge is sensitive to the order in which the  
 lookups
 are defined in the file? Interesting ...

   Thomas, you can try this but I have made a mistake in the Unicode  
 code
 for omega with subscribed iota: it should be 1FF3 and not 1FD3.

   Arthur

Yep, I had already fixed that (and also replied to Taco's message,  
the context list is again a bit out of order today). Arthur, while  
we're at it: could you try and insert this line into the fea-file:

sub quotedbl quotesingle i by un1FD3 ;

whenever I try anything like this with the quotedbl character (which  
produces some ligatures), I get this error:

/Users/tas/texmf/fonts/opentype/greek/bosporos/BosporosU.otf
!luaTeX error (file /Users/tas/texmf/fonts/opentype/greek/bosporos/ 
BosporosU.otf): Unexpected error: 255 != 256
  == Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!

(Or similar errors with other fonts). The mechanism for the single  
dieresis works:

sub quotedbl i by uni03CA ;

but nothing with quotedbl + something else. Do you have any ideal  
what triggers this error?

Best

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

Hi Arthur, Taco,

you're my heroes! Changing the order of the lookup tables in the .fea  
file actually took care of the problem. Thanks for looking into this,  
now I get the results I was expecting; every substitution is applied  
to the font! Once the initial lookup has been done, this is  
reasonably fast, too, so I like it. I'm eagerly waiting for teh new  
release next week to see if this works with copy-and-past from pdfs.  
So this appears to be one way to deal with ASCII input a la babel.  
Easy to implement, but fails on fonts that don't have the glyphs for  
the Latin characters.

One trivial question: when I want to experiment with feature files,  
the cached instance of the font seems to be in the way. Only after  
deleting the current luatex-cache, regenerating it and recompiling  
the format do I get proper results. Is there an easier/faster way to  
do this?

Will now go on and experiment some more, especially with type1/afm- 
based fonts. Thanks a lot, best wishes

Thomas

On Sep 16, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:


 Hi guys,

 Try this ordering:

 lookup GreekBabelLookupMultiple {
 ...
 } GreekBabelLookupMultiple ;

 lookup GreekBabelLookupSimple {
  ...
 } GreekBabelLookupSimple ;




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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Hans Hagen]

Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
 Hi Arthur, Taco,
 
 you're my heroes! Changing the order of the lookup tables in the .fea  
 file actually took care of the problem. Thanks for looking into this,  
 now I get the results I was expecting; every substitution is applied  
 to the font! Once the initial lookup has been done, this is  
 reasonably fast, too, so I like it. I'm eagerly waiting for teh new  
 release next week to see if this works with copy-and-past from pdfs.  
 So this appears to be one way to deal with ASCII input a la babel.  
 Easy to implement, but fails on fonts that don't have the glyphs for  
 the Latin characters.

arthur mentions the final sigma in the fea file .. can be a (part of) 
feature too (like fina)


 One trivial question: when I want to experiment with feature files,  
 the cached instance of the font seems to be in the way. Only after  
 deleting the current luatex-cache, regenerating it and recompiling  
 the format do I get proper results. Is there an easier/faster way to  
 do this?

jumping the version number of the otf handler will force this, but this 
is a bad idea; also, caching is fast because no file checking has to be 
done, so deleting cached files (just the one you test) is the price you 
pay when developing a font (fea) file

btw, the fea file can be part of the distribution (but we need to think 
of a naming scheme)

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Arthur Reutenauer]

 there were a couple of problems that I just  
 couldn't resolve, especially regarding the characters with an iota  
 subscript:

  Indeed. This is a problem with the Fontforge code applying the GSUB
features: the 'grbl' feature is defined by two lookups, one being a list
of single substitutions (h - eta) and the other a list of ligature
substitutions (h bar - eta with subscribed iota).  Now, since the latter
has to take precedence to avoid conflicts, I explicitely put it before
the other, but it seems that Fontforge ignores this and applies the list
of single substitutions before the other (this is confirmed by the cache
file [EMAIL PROTECTED] where the lookup with the single
substitutions, called GreelBabelLookupSimple, appears first in the
gsub table).

  Note that this doesn't happen for substitutions *inside* a lookup (so
things like greater eta bar and eta bar don't conflict since they're
both ligature substitutions and I put the former before in the list, and
the substitutions are correctly applied.  As a far as I understand, this
behaviour is actually compliant with the Opentype specifications and is
quite widespread among typesetting engines and so it is not (only)
Fontforge's fault; but, needless to say, it is nevertheless annoying.
(In more crude terms: Opentype does not specify anything in that respect,
so manufacturers of typesetting software can do whatever they want ...)

  Thomas: to solve the problem at hand, you can try the new feature
file I send along with a small test (I simply define a new feature that is
to be applied after 'grbl', to deal specifically with the subscribed iotas).

Arthur
# An Opentype feature to replace the Babel input scheme

# Not quite complete; some rhos with breathings and accents are missing (where
# are they?) and the final sigma isn't accounted for.

lookup GreekBabelLookupSimple {
lookupflag 0 ;
sub a   by alpha ;
sub b   by beta ;
sub g   by gamma ;
sub d   by delta ;
sub e   by epsilon ;
sub z   by zeta ;
sub h   by eta ;
sub j   by theta ;
sub i   by iota ;
sub k   by kappa ;
sub l   by lambda ;
sub m   by mu ;
sub n   by nu ;
sub x   by xi ;
sub o   by omicron ;
sub p   by pi ;
sub r   by rho ;
sub c   by sigmafinal ;
sub s   by sigma ;
sub t   by tau ;
sub u   by upsilon ;
sub f   by phi ;
sub q   by chi ;
sub y   by psi ;
sub w   by omega ;
sub A   by Alpha ;
sub B   by Beta ;
sub G   by Gamma ;
sub D   by Delta ;
sub E   by Epsilon ;
sub Z   by Zeta ;
sub H   by Eta ;
sub J   by Theta ;
sub I   by Iota ;
sub K   by Kappa ;
sub L   by Lambda ;
sub M   by Mu ;
sub N   by Nu ;
sub X   by Xi ;
sub O   by Omicron ;
sub P   by Pi ;
sub R   by Rho ;
sub C   by Uni03C2 ;
sub S   by Sigma ;
sub T   by Tau ;
sub U   by Upsilon ;
sub F   by Phi ;
sub Q   by Chi ;
sub Y   by Psi ;
sub W   by Omega ;
sub semicolon   by periodcentered ;
} GreekBabelLookupSimple ;

lookup GreekBabelLookupMultiple {
lookupflag 1 ;
# sub s 'space by sigmafinal ;
sub greater  a by uni1F00 ;
sub greater  A by uni1F08 ;
sub greater  e by uni1F10 ;
sub greater  E by uni1F18 ;
sub greater  h by uni1F20 ;
sub greater  H by uni1F28 ;
sub greater  i by uni1F30 ;
sub greater  I by uni1F38 ;
sub greater  o by uni1F40 ;
sub greater  O by uni1F48 ;
sub greater  u by uni1F50 ;
# sub greater  U by uni1F58 ;
sub greater  w by uni1F60 ;
sub greater  W by uni1F68 ;
sub greater grave a by uni1F02 ;
sub greater grave A by uni1F0A ;
sub greater grave e by uni1F12 ;
sub greater grave E by uni1F1A ;
sub greater grave h by uni1F22 ;
sub greater grave H by uni1F2A ;
sub greater grave i by uni1F32 ;
sub greater grave I by uni1F3A ;
sub greater grave o by uni1F42 ;
sub greater grave O by uni1F4A ;
sub greater grave u by uni1F52 ;
# sub greater grave U by uni1F5A ;
sub greater grave w by uni1F62 ;
sub greater grave W by uni1F6A ;
sub greater quotesingle a by uni1F04 ;
sub greater quotesingle A by uni1F0C ;
sub greater quotesingle e by uni1F14 ;
sub greater quotesingle E by uni1F1C ;
sub greater quotesingle h by uni1F24 ;
sub greater quotesingle H by uni1F2C ;
sub greater quotesingle i by uni1F34 ;
sub greater quotesingle I by uni1F3C ;
sub greater quotesingle o by uni1F44 ;
sub greater quotesingle O by uni1F4C ;
sub greater quotesingle u by uni1F54 ;
   

Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Taco Hoekwater]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
   Hello Thomas,
 
   I was waiting for someone else to answer your questions because I
 had no clue how to address them even if I was interested; but now I do,
 thanks to Hans' reply:
 
   For your general problem you need to define a new regime that will
 map each relevant character sequence to the corresponding Unicode
 character.  That is, you inform ConTeXt that the character stream it sees
 is actually a way of coding another set of characters and that it can
 forget the original stream.  This treatment should be done before any sort
 of font property intervenes, because it does not depend on the
 appearance of the typeset text.  That's what regimes are for.

Yes, except that we need a more powerful version (almost like OTPs) if
we want to handle transcriptions properly. The vital point is that it
should operate on tokens, not on nodes. I am not sure if Hans already
has a hook there that can be extended.

   If you have a look at the attached greek-babel.tex (and the features
 definition file greek-babel.fea) you will see that (almost) everything
 is taken care of using Opentype substitutions.  You need Bosporos and
 GFS Baskerville to compile the file; by the way, the line with GFS
 Baskerville is a further proof that you shouldn't handle the
 transformation at font level: can you explain why it doesn't work here?

Possibly because a single one of the glyphs has a different name in
GFS Baskerville, or because a previous gsub rule has e.g. replaced
F;i; = Fi; (your own gsub rules are always executed last, after
everything defined by the font)

As you say, .fea's are definately not the right way to handle this,
even if they would work flawlessly.


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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

Hi Arthur,

first of all: thank you so much for your time and your expertise!  
Your reply and your scripts really make things a lot clearer for me;  
this is a huge step forward! I'll have to experiment and think more  
about it, here's just a few reactions to some of your remarks:

On Sep 13, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:

   Hello Thomas,

   I was waiting for someone else to answer your questions because I
 had no clue how to address them even if I was interested; but now I  
 do,
 thanks to Hans' reply:

   For your general problem you need to define a new regime that will
 map each relevant character sequence to the corresponding Unicode
 character.  That is, you inform ConTeXt that the character stream  
 it sees
 is actually a way of coding another set of characters and that it can
 forget the original stream.  This treatment should be done before  
 any sort
 of font property intervenes, because it does not depend on the
 appearance of the typeset text.  That's what regimes are for.

I agree that this would probably be the cleanest solution: since  
luatex has unicode support, map everything to the corresponding  
Unicode characters. This would also make hyphenation easier to achieve.


   Now I turn up to Hans to give us guidelines on how to define an
 advanced regime in Mark IV: Hans, what we need here is to replace
 sequences of characters by other characters, so the mapping is not
 one-to-one and it's more complicated than simple regimes defined by a
 table lookup; but I guess all we have to do is write a lua function  
 that
 we could plug into the input stream reading routine (just like other
 regimes work).

   As far as the rest of Hans' reply is concerned (Opentype features  
 and
 such), I would like to add that it is a very interesting and  
 fascinating
 thing to do, but definitely not what you want here, for a lot of
 reasons: Opentype features can be used to alter the appearance of the
 text, but the not nature of characters themselves.  That is, if you  
 did
 the transformation of your input stream at the font level, you would
 actually tell ConTeXt that you are handling Latin characters with a
 special appearance (that the font takes care of), so for example, the
 underlying text in a PDF would be a stream of Latin characters, and
 copying-and-pasting would yield Latin characters, not Greek.

The question of copy-and-paste is one of the big mysteries, and I  
have no clue why it works in some cases, but not in others. Right  
now, on my system (OS X 10.4), only Adobe Reader 8.0 does copy-paste  
correctly, and it does it correctly no matter if I use babel or  
Unicode input. Never touch a running system: I just take this as  
some  sort of divine favor and leave it at that...

 That is
 not what you want here: you want your a to be understood as alpha
 and your less-than acute-sign w vertical-bar to be considered an
 omega with dasia, varia and subscribed iota.  Nor should you  
 think of
 these transformations as a collection of ligatures (which act at the
 font level), but rather as a text encoding, just like UTF-8 is an
 encoding of the Unicode characters: in UTF-8 the byte sequence
 hexadecimal byte E1, hexadecimal byte BC, hexadecimal byte 80 is the
 coding for the Unicode character U+1F00 GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA  
 WITH PSILI,
 and in the Babel input scheme for Ancient Greek the same character is
 encoded with the byte sequence hexadecimal byte 3C [ASCII ''],
 hexadecimal byte 61 [ASCII 'a'].

Yes, that's crystal clear. It would also take care of another  
problem: in the input stream, you know exactly which character  
sequence translates to what. On the font level, legacy fonts  
sometimes have their own ideas about where to put certain glyphs.


   Of course in the past, these transformations were handled at the  
 font
 level and sequences like  a were actually ligatures, because  
 that was
 all we had (and copypasting from a PDF was, mostly, doomed to  
 fail); but
 we should not persist in that use now we can treat them as real  
 Unicode
 characters.

Well yes, but see above.


   As for your other question in your original message from  
 September 1st
 (remapping single characters, for example U+03C3 to U+03F2), I have to
 say first that I'm not very comfortable commenting on it since I'm not
 quite sure what the issues are here; it may be that you have a simple
 variant of some character, and this you should handle at font level
 (some glyph being transformed into some other one); but if I am to  
 judge
 by the very example you gave, I would deem this should be a part of  
 your
 input regime: indeed, if every sigma is to be mapped to lunate sigma,
 then it probably means that the lunate sigmas are part of your  
 character
 stream (even if you didn't input it directly).  But I really can't  
 give
 any general advice here, especially because I don't actually know  
 what a
 lunate sigma really is ;-)  You would have to decide for yourself as a

Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Arthur Reutenauer]

 Right  
 now, on my system (OS X 10.4), only Adobe Reader 8.0 does copy-paste  
 correctly, and it does it correctly no matter if I use babel or  
 Unicode input.

  You mean with LuaTeX? Copypasting isn't supported yet in LuaTeX so
it's no surprise that it wouldn't work (for me Adobe Reader and Preview
fail in two different ways).  As for pdfTeX I leave that to Taco and
others to answer.

  But hyphenation is another important issue, maybe even clearer.

 I guess that different sorts of users would respond differently. In  
 Unicode, there's a different slot for some alternate characters, so  
 the Unicode standard really considers them different characters.

  Actually, now I think about it, the name for U+03F2 has symbol in
it, and that's a clear indication that the character is intended for
technical use, not for inputting Greek text; so your choice is
consistent with the intent of the Standard.

 Wonderful! I will look carefully at these files. I've been playing  
 with perl and python all day yesterday for another problem, so I'm  
 very much looking forward to studying your script.

  Somewhere in the middle of writing it, I realized that I should have
written it in Lua :-)  It wouldn't have been much different.

Arthur
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Taco Hoekwater]

Arthur Reutenauer wrote:

Yes, except that we need a more powerful version (almost like OTPs) if
we want to handle transcriptions properly. The vital point is that it
should operate on tokens, not on nodes.


  Yes, sure. OTP would work fine here, but I thought Mark IV had already
something handy.


I played a bit, see attachment. Surely Hans will want to improve on this 
interface, so don't patch any of the core files just now.


Best wishes,
Taco
% engine=luatex

%D First a hack to the core. two changes:
%D * don't force end_cs to be \relax
%D * don't remove end_cs from the input stream

\ctxlua{
function collectors.install(tag,end_cs)
collectors.data[tag] = { }
local data   = collectors.data[tag]
local call   = token.command_id(call)
local endcs  = token.csname_id(end_cs)
local expand = collectors.registered
local get= token.get_next
while true do
local t = get()
local a, b = t[1], t[3]
if b == endcs then
tex.print('\\' ..end_cs)
return
elseif a == call and expand[b] then
token.expand()
else
data[\string#data+1] = t
end
end
end 
}

%D a small extension to the core interface, to have a 
%D nice wrapper around the lua code

\ctxlua {
function collectors.handle(tag,handle)
collectors.data[tag] = handle(collectors.data[tag])
end
}
\def\handletokens[#1][#2]{\ctxlua{collectors.handle(#1,#2)}}

%D Here starts the document-specific code

%D Start capturing tokens in the buffer named 'babel', stop
%D at \stopbabel

\def\startbabel 
  {\ctxlua{collectors.install(babel, stopbabel)}}


%D The lua mutation function. str is a table containing the captured
%D tokens, each itself a three-item table (this is explained in the 
%D luatex manual)

\ctxlua {
function convert_babel(str)
local t = { }
for k,v in ipairs(str) do
t[\string#t+1] = tokens.other('*')
t[\string#t+1] = v
end
return t
end
}

%D convert the tokens using that lua function, then 
%D flush the result
\def\stopbabel  
  {\handletokens[babel][convert_babel]
   \flushtokens[babel]}

\starttext

\startbabel%
some stuff here
\stopbabel

\stoptext
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Sep 13, 2007, at 12:49 PM, Arthur Reutenauer wrote:

   You mean with LuaTeX? Copypasting isn't supported yet in LuaTeX so
 it's no surprise that it wouldn't work (for me Adobe Reader and  
 Preview
 fail in two different ways).  As for pdfTeX I leave that to Taco and
 others to answer.

   But hyphenation is another important issue, maybe even clearer.


Yes, I meant in pdfTeX,  sorry for being imprecise.

   Actually, now I think about it, the name for U+03F2 has symbol in
 it, and that's a clear indication that the character is intended for
 technical use, not for inputting Greek text; so your choice is
 consistent with the intent of the Standard.

OK, good to hear that. I now realize that much of the stuff that I  
hacked together for use with pdfTeX worked by dumb luck; with luaTeX,  
I'll be forced to be adhere to standards more closely. I guess that's  
a good thing...


   Somewhere in the middle of writing it, I realized that I should have
 written it in Lua :-)  It wouldn't have been much different.

Yes, I'm hoping to look into lua as well.

Thanks so much!

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Greek in luatex

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On Sep 13, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

 Arthur Reutenauer wrote:
 Yes, except that we need a more powerful version (almost like  
 OTPs) if
 we want to handle transcriptions properly. The vital point is  
 that it
 should operate on tokens, not on nodes.
   Yes, sure. OTP would work fine here, but I thought Mark IV had  
 already
 something handy.

 I played a bit, see attachment. Surely Hans will want to improve on  
 this interface, so don't patch any of the core files just now.

 Best wishes,
 Taco

Taco,

it almost feels like today's my birthday - thanks again! Will look at  
it more closely soonish!

Best

Thomas


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