Re: Foundation policy for email forwarding service
On 11/9/11 7:53 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote: To add onto this policy with my brand management hat, I would strongly advise the AOOo PPMC to choose to not provide mail forwarding addresses @openoffice.org domain for project committers. All committers already have @apache.org email addresses, which would be the best way to for active committers to show their participation in this new project, working in the Apache Way, called Apache OpenOffice going forward. +1 Juergen - Shane On 2011-11-08 3:32 PM, Greg Stein wrote: Hello everybody, At the Board's face-to-face meeting here in Vancouver, we discussed the issue of transferring [from Oracle to Apache] the set of email-forwards for usernames in the openoffice.org domain. There are certainly some legal concerns and some technical work to get through, and I know the podling is working through that. However, the Board felt it appropriate to set a general Foundation-wide policy in terms of email forwarding services using the Foundation's domains and brands. In short, *only* people directly affiliated with the Foundation as a committer or Member are eligible for email forwarding services using our domains. The core of this issue is based on avoiding confusion/misrepresentation based on sending email using our domains. Just as I can no longer send mail using my old gst...@google.com or gst...@microsoft.com addresses, we do not want to allow unaffiliated third parties to send email using our brands/domains. Email addresses using the @apache.org domain are provided for all committers once they are voted/approved by one of our Project Management Committees (PMC) and have returned an Individual Contributor License Agreement. Email forwarding addresses using our other domains (such as @subversion.com, @myfaces.org, or @openoffice.org) would be subject to all the above rules, along with technical input and support from Infrastructure. The PMCs associated with these extra domain(s) may set additional requirements/policies, but the general recommendation of the Board is to avoid all email forwarding services beyond @apache.org. If you have any questions, then please feel to contact myself or the Board. Cheers, Greg Stein Vice Chairman, Director, Apache Software Foundation
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
Hi Raphael, Le 9 nov. 11 à 19:44, Raphael Bircher a écrit : Hi Uwe Am 09.11.11 19:24, schrieb Uwe Altmann: Hi Am 09.11.11 16:20, schrieb eric b: I couldn't see any problem with my versions of OOo 3.2.1, 3.3.0 or 3.4.0-dev (last dev build provided by Oracle). If someone leads me to a recent build of 3.4, i'll be able to test that with 10.6 and 10.5 and a white apple remote. btw 3.3 works fine under 10.6 with the white apple remote. Not completly up date, but same AOOo Builds. Attention they will be installed as OpenOffice.org and not as OOo-Dev http:// people.apache.org/~rbircher/builds/ To verify you have the right changes included : what returns svn up in main/apple_remote ? If nothing - ok If you see changes = you'll need to rebuild a new set Thanks, Eric -- qɔᴉɹə Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
b) Apache OpenOffice Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2011, at 7:47 PM, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
Re: [DISCUSS]+[VOTE] Trademark and Branding
The wiki is editable you can make your own adjustments and people can judge for themselves Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.comwrote: We've had a lengthy discussion on ooo-marketing regarding trademark and branding considerations and options. It's time we moved forward and made a decision in order to expedite the ongoing migration of the web site and to remove one more obstacle from the dev team. We want to preserve and protect the historic OpenOffice.org trademark. The choice of an Apache name and new trademark will not impact the historic mark as granted to the Apache Software Foundation for stewardship. Since this is a major decision we felt it important to bring it back to ooo-dev for final discussion then vote. We have the choices presented on the wiki[1] for your reference. I read the wiki and dont agree with the statement of .org was popular before and not now. .Net and .Mac are other examples of the .XYZ use. DotGnu and other projects also claim these trend which are by no means old projects. Not sure what is the base of saying this but I feel is very inaccurate. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planning https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org fingerprint: E62B CF77 1BEA 0749 C0B8 50B9 3DE6 A84A 68D0 72E6
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
hi, +1 for b) Apache OpenOffice thanks mail:zhaos...@cn.ibm.com tel:54747 Address:2/F,Ring Bldg. No.28 Building, Zhong Guan Cun Software Park, No.8, Dong Bei Wang West Road, ShangDi, Haidian District, Beijing 100193, P.R.China Donald Harbison dpharbison@gmail .com To ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, 2011-11-10 11:47 cc Subject Please respond to [VOTE] Trademark and Brand ooo-dev@incubator .apache.org As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org Zoltan 2011.11.10. 4:47 keltezéssel, Donald Harbison írta: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
RE: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
+1 for a) Apache OpenOffice.org as product name -- Kent Åberg
RE: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
I prefer b) Apache OpenOffice
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
On 11/10/2011 04:47 AM, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011. The .org part of the name always felt awkward, but perhaps there was some good reason? Has this been documented? Why did Sun call it OpenOffice.org rather than just OpenOffice? Looking into the project now from the Swedish horizon, it doesn't matter much what you call this branch, since everybody from the developer community seems to be over at LibreOffice. If you hope to merge the two branches, both communities should have a say on the name. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
+1 for a) Apache OpenOffice.org
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
On 11/9/11 4:19 PM, eric b wrote: Le 9 nov. 11 à 11:57, Jürgen Schmidt a écrit : On 11/9/11 9:09 AM, eric b wrote: Hi, Hi Jürgen, One reported me some issue using the Apple remote on Mac OS X. Can someone building on Mac try to use Impress with the Apple remote, and confirm there is an issue (or not) ? What is expected : using a fresh build of Apache OpenOffice.org, the apple remote works well on all Mac OS X versions (Intel only) i have run a quick test on MacOS 10.7.2 with a fresh built (fro the same machine) of Apache Open Office (no copyleft components). Ok, we know it works on 10.7.x At home, I got 10.4 and 10.5, but not 10.6 so I need other feedback. All possible cases are : 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7 associated to either white or metallic remote. I have loaded a presentation and my old Apple remote worked as expected, no problem detected so far. Hope that helps If svn up does nothing in main/apple_remote for you, yes it does. Else rebuild libAppleRemote.dylib Note : hdu seems to have removed mxi suffix recently. Just rename the lib in case OOo doesn't start, because checked in SalData at launch i have built the latest sources, no problems Juergen
Re: [DISCUSS]: new home for pre-built unowinreg.dll
On 09.11.2011 13:43, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: On 11/5/11 1:30 PM, Mathias Bauer wrote: Am 01.11.2011 14:15, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt: Hi, for all unix builds it is possible to use a pre-built unowinreg.dll that is used in the SDK for Java client applications. Background: This dll contains some glue code that helps to find a default office installation on windows. This is used to bootstrap an UNO environment and establish a remote connection to an existing or new office instance from the Java client application that triggers this code. If is possible to cross compile this dll with mingw in some way but not really necessary. It was always possible to download a pre-built version and include it in the SDK on all plattforms expecting Windows where it is built always. I would suggest that we store this pre-built dll somewhere to ensure that this mechanism can be used or will work in the future as well. The URL to download the pre-built version is http://tools.openoffice.org/unowinreg_prebuild/680/unowinreg.dll The code is part of the odk module and is quite simple. Means it can be always checked what's in the dll. We can apply a md5 checksum to ensure that no manipulated dll is downloaded. Any ideas where we can store this dll in the future? In the build the unowinreg.dll is expected to be in external/unowinreg. Usually the developer needs to copy it there. We could just check it in there in case we wanted to stick with the binary. i think it is not allowed to check in binaries in the source tree, at least pre-built ones. I would be happy with this solution because it was the solution we had at the beginning ;-) IIRC the reason why we gave that up wasn't legal or technical, it was just the religious belief of a single contributor that everything must be built from source. While I agree with that belief on a general level, I also think that allowing exceptions make sense when the effort to follow it becomes too high. As we already agreed on possible keeping MPL binaries in our svn, why shouldn't we keep a binary that was built from our own source, but just on a different OS? Regards, Mathias
Re: [DISCUSS]+[VOTE] Trademark and Branding
On 11/10/11 6:12 AM, Donald Harbison wrote: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Pedro Giffunip...@apache.org wrote: Hello; An important question. The vote is for choosing the product name, can the project name be different? The vote is for the product name, if you wish to begin a [DISCUSSON] about the project name, is your choice. Be aware that we began the podling as described here: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html To make this clear: I would think it practical to keep option (a) for the product, but option (b) for the project. Please cast your vote for the product only. That is the ballot. i think it is important to know the possibilities later for a project name. If we vote for a) and later on the project name would be the same and the project Url would be openofficeorg.apache.org. Then i would say a bad choice. And thinking more about the visibility of the product name in various places on a desktop. I would really like to keep OpenOffice.org as it was in the past because of the well known brand awareness. So my question is where should the new product name be used all about? Only on the intro screen, in the help system, in all written docu where we use the product name. Or also as name for the install directory, menu entries etc. I never liked the .org but have conditioned my brain to use it over the past 14 years. Many people don't say OpenOffice.org but OpenOffice, means it is more often used when you reference the product somewhere in written form. Juergen Just wondering if there will be a second vote for the project name. regards, Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Donald Harbisondpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: We've had a lengthy discussion on ooo-marketing regarding trademark and branding considerations and options. It's time we moved forward and made a decision in order to expedite the ongoing migration of the web site and to remove one more obstacle from the dev team. We want to preserve and protect the historic OpenOffice.org trademark. The choice of an Apache name and new trademark will not impact the historic mark as granted to the Apache Software Foundation for stewardship. Since this is a major decision we felt it important to bring it back to ooo-dev for final discussion then vote. We have the choices presented on the wiki[1] for your reference. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planning https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
Re: agg and epm are still in svn repo.
On 11/10/11 2:43 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: Hi Maho; I personally didn't plan to remove agg. I like it as option and license wise it's OK so I have no pland to remove it, at least for now. well the question really is why you have checked it in this way and has disabled it directly afterwards. That doesn't make any sense and it was counterproductive from my pov. It was initially handled as all other 3rd party modules and we could have dropped it and could have kept the option to use it (if somebody wants) with the option --with-system-agg. Default would be to disable it. I think it would make sense if we follow all the same rules. Juergen I did notice it's still getting built on our port and I have to look at why. I think when I attempt to build AOOo from the tarball it doesn't get built but there are other ugly issues with icu there. About epm I don't know, I guess we can remove that directory now. Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Maho NAKATAm...@apache.org wrote: From: Maho NAKATAm...@apache.org Subject: agg and epm are still in svn repo. To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc: p...@apache.org Date: Wednesday, November 9, 2011, 7:47 PM Hi, while porting AOOo to FreeBSD, pgf@ noticed that agg and epm are still in svn repo. is it correct? Should we remove them? thanks Nakata Maho
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
Hi eric Am 10.11.11 09:01, schrieb eric b: If someone leads me to a recent build of 3.4, i'll be able to test that with 10.6 and 10.5 and a white apple remote. ^ Would be kind of you. What is the model ? white or metallic ? White of course. :-) Raphaels Build 340m1 build 9584 (would really be nice if this text could be copied from the about-box) works fine under 10.6: The only - not reproducible - error I got was the first time when I just opened a presentation in edit mode and tried to start it with the center button of the remote, OOO crashed. My 10.5 system will be back together with my wife later in the day. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann
Re: [DISCUSS]: new home for pre-built unowinreg.dll
On 11/9/11 10:20 PM, Rob Weir wrote: 2011/11/9 Jürgen Schmidtjogischm...@googlemail.com: On 11/5/11 1:30 PM, Mathias Bauer wrote: Am 01.11.2011 14:15, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt: Hi, for all unix builds it is possible to use a pre-built unowinreg.dll that is used in the SDK for Java client applications. Background: This dll contains some glue code that helps to find a default office installation on windows. This is used to bootstrap an UNO environment and establish a remote connection to an existing or new office instance from the Java client application that triggers this code. If is possible to cross compile this dll with mingw in some way but not really necessary. It was always possible to download a pre-built version and include it in the SDK on all plattforms expecting Windows where it is built always. I would suggest that we store this pre-built dll somewhere to ensure that this mechanism can be used or will work in the future as well. The URL to download the pre-built version is http://tools.openoffice.org/unowinreg_prebuild/680/unowinreg.dll The code is part of the odk module and is quite simple. Means it can be always checked what's in the dll. We can apply a md5 checksum to ensure that no manipulated dll is downloaded. Any ideas where we can store this dll in the future? In the build the unowinreg.dll is expected to be in external/unowinreg. Usually the developer needs to copy it there. We could just check it in there in case we wanted to stick with the binary. i think it is not allowed to check in binaries in the source tree, at least pre-built ones. I would be happy with this solution because it was the solution we had at the beginning ;-) The binary is Apache 2.0 license? If so, I think it is OK. At least no policy problem. It is odd from an engineering standpoint. But I see the argument: we are building a Java library that calls into a native method via a platform-specific native library. If we want to be able to build that SDK on Linux, then we need to be able to package the Windows DLL. This is because even if we build on Linux, the user of the SDK might run their code on any platform, including Windows. So we need to be able to package Windows native code on a Linux-built SDK. Checking in the Windows DLL seems to be the easiest solution. Maybe put a clear README file in that directory so other developers know what is going on and how to rebuild it. ok, if nobody else has any concerns i will move forward with this approach and check it in in the odk module and change everything ... Is this code that almost never changes? Should we rebuild it for every official release? well we build it always under Windows to ensure that it is still compilable. Changes are rather seldom. Juergen
Fwd: Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
Dear Lars Aronsson, please be careful in claiming yourself as the spokesperson for Sweden. There are other folks around in this nation having other opinions. Best of regards, Kent Åberg Ursprungligt meddelande Ämne: Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand Datum: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:08:32 +0100 Från: Lars Aronsson l...@aronsson.se Svar till: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Till: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org On 11/10/2011 04:47 AM, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011. The .org part of the name always felt awkward, but perhaps there was some good reason? Has this been documented? Why did Sun call it OpenOffice.org rather than just OpenOffice? Looking into the project now from the Swedish horizon, it doesn't matter much what you call this branch, since everybody from the developer community seems to be over at LibreOffice. If you hope to merge the two branches, both communities should have a say on the name. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Le 09/11/11 17:19, Pedro Giffuni a écrit : Hi Pedro, My attempt to contact Pentaho concerning this extension produced no result. I consider this extension orphaned and I think it should be moved elsewhere out. This is most unfortunate. Without a report building module of some kind, all the database segment of users will change from OOo to something else. Of course, there is still the built-in reportdesign module that could be enhanced, but it is relatively unloved and I don't think anything much has happened to it since the Pentaho integration into the OOo source tree. Alex
Re: [DISCUSS]+[VOTE] Trademark and Branding
The vote should reflect the data from the Wiki, right? So, why is the last option missing: e) Apache Office Suite Furthermore, when I don't like any of them? How to vote then? IMHO another option should be added: f) nothing of the above My 2 ct. Marcus Am 11/10/2011 04:35 AM, schrieb Donald Harbison: We've had a lengthy discussion on ooo-marketing regarding trademark and branding considerations and options. It's time we moved forward and made a decision in order to expedite the ongoing migration of the web site and to remove one more obstacle from the dev team. We want to preserve and protect the historic OpenOffice.org trademark. The choice of an Apache name and new trademark will not impact the historic mark as granted to the Apache Software Foundation for stewardship. Since this is a major decision we felt it important to bring it back to ooo-dev for final discussion then vote. We have the choices presented on the wiki[1] for your reference. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planninghttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Hello Alexander, On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 11:53:12AM +0100, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 09/11/11 17:19, Pedro Giffuni a écrit : Hi Pedro, My attempt to contact Pentaho concerning this extension produced no result. I consider this extension orphaned and I think it should be moved elsewhere out. This is most unfortunate. Without a report building module of some kind, all the database segment of users will change from OOo to something else. Of course, there is still the built-in reportdesign module that could be enhanced, but it is relatively unloved and I don't think anything much has happened to it since the Pentaho integration into the OOo source tree. the reportbuilder won't be built nor released by AOOo, but anyone can take the sources and build it (for example, it would be useful to take the sources and make a Netbeans project out of it). This extension is not really extension in the real sense of the term (extending OOo without touching any line of source code), it depends on the core functionality introduced in the reportdesign module. AOOo is not removing reportdesign nor reportbuilder. The main issue is not the source code (on the software grant from Oracle, so no issue at all), nor the 3rd parties libraries (the code that relies on them can be built as an extension by anyone who wants), but the lack of man power with the knowledge to maintain and further develop it. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina pgpUlEJCprh6G.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 19:47 -0800, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office +1 for b) Apache OpenOffice
Re: Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
2011/11/10 Kent Åberg kent.ab...@newformat.se Dear Lars Aronsson, please be careful in claiming yourself as the spokesperson for Sweden. There are other folks around in this nation having other opinions. Best of regards, Kent Åberg Ursprungligt meddelande Ämne: Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand Datum: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:08:32 +0100 Från: Lars Aronsson l...@aronsson.se Svar till: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Till: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org On 11/10/2011 04:47 AM, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011. The .org part of the name always felt awkward, but perhaps there was some good reason? Has this been documented? Why did Sun call it OpenOffice.org rather than just OpenOffice? Looking into the project now from the Swedish horizon, it doesn't matter much what you call this branch, since everybody from the developer community seems to be over at LibreOffice. If you hope to merge the two branches, both communities should have a say on the name. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se Apache OpenOffice -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
Le 10 nov. 11 à 11:39, Uwe Altmann a écrit : Hi eric Am 10.11.11 09:01, schrieb eric b: If someone leads me to a recent build of 3.4, i'll be able to test that with 10.6 and 10.5 and a white apple remote. ^ Would be kind of you. What is the model ? white or metallic ? White of course. :-) Ok Raphaels Build 340m1 build 9584 (would really be nice if this text could be copied from the about-box) works fine under 10.6: The most important info I need, is the revison number, obtained from the return of svn info (inside main/apple_remote subdir), that only Raphael can tell us. The only - not reproducible - error I got was the first time when I just opened a presentation in edit mode and tried to start it with the center button of the remote, OOO crashed. This is the issue one reported me :-/ So it occurs at least whith OOo3.4.0 + 10.6 + white remote I think the isue is deep in the system, and to reproduce it, you'll probably have to reboot. What I could do, is try to find someone using 10.6 close to me, and debug myself locally too (will save time). My 10.5 system will be back together with my wife later in the day. Ok, thanks Eric -- qɔᴉɹə Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. As promised?! When did you promise a vote on this? I sought lazy consensus on a method to answer these questions. I did this in a proposal sent to the list on October 31st. The proposal called for *2 weeks* of discussion. This was intentionally a longer than normal period in order to try to get consensus. It was also designed to go beyond ApacheCon so everyone could participate freely in the discussion and the vote. There were no objections to this proposal for. So the vote should be not vote on this until November 14th, as stated in the proposal: http://markmail.org/message/ucz4e2ztjn34zy6x So I don't see why you've decided to rush the vote through earlier than we agreed to (via lazy consensus) previously. -Rob a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org
Hi, W dniu 2011-11-10 05:37, Louis Suárez-Potts pisze: Hi, On 9 November 2011 18:06, Dave Fisherdave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Nov 9, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: As many of you may know, per Dave's announcement about a week or so ago, we have a staging site of *MOST* (we're still finding areas that need to be re-pulled for one reason or another), of the (old) current OO.o site at: http://ooo-site.apache.org Right now, I have a question about the existing pl (Polish) site at http://pl.openoffice.org/ Does anyone on this list know anything about the history of the Polish site -- why this group decided to basically make a duplicate of the OpenOffice.org site but translated? None of the other N-L sites have gone to this length so I'm just curious about it. Yes, I know much about it. Its history is complicated and its communities even more so. But its current lead (of PL group working on OOo, if not entirely only on OOo itself) has simplified things. It is not a duplicate, but anyway, the point of localized pages is that they host content that is useful to users that do not speak English. If you think that the OOo site was useful, then you might consider that translating some parts of it might be somehow justified ;) Anyway, it mostly contains pointers to other places, and some news parts. There are lists of books and courses about OOo, and some installation instructions that were relevant when the Polish dictionary was not bundled with OOo. Is it bigger than the German site? No. Also, at this point in our migration plans, do we have anyone here who is willing to continue to maintain the pl site as it stands? I can ask the former lead; cc'd here. He is Marcin Milkowski. I don't think anyone is interested in maintaining it anymore. The Polish community moved to LibreOffice and they consider Apache project as a fork. I didn't resign from the Polish lead position but as there's only me left and I have no time for doing anything, the Polish project at OOo is somewhat zombified. Cheers, Marcin
Re: [DISCUSS]+[VOTE] Trademark and Branding
Original Message From: Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:30:29 -0800 I must admit to wondering who we are in your statements, Donald. D See: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-marketing/ Dave On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org wrote: Hello; An important question. The vote is for choosing the product name, can the project name be different? To make this clear: I would think it practical to keep option (a) for the product, but option (b) for the project. Just wondering if there will be a second vote for the project name. regards, Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: We've had a lengthy discussion on ooo-marketing regarding trademark and branding considerations and options. It's time we moved forward and made a decision in order to expedite the ongoing migration of the web site and to remove one more obstacle from the dev team. We want to preserve and protect the historic OpenOffice.org trademark. The choice of an Apache name and new trademark will not impact the historic mark as granted to the Apache Software Foundation for stewardship. Since this is a major decision we felt it important to bring it back to ooo-dev for final discussion then vote. We have the choices presented on the wiki[1] for your reference. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planning https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
Original Message From: Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:47:22 -0800 b) Apache OpenOffice +1 Dave
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
Hi, I filed https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118593 as central point. I forgot : what do you mean with center button ? the one with || ? Other question : does the crash or the freeze ? occur hiting the Play / Pause button only, or any ? Feel free to add comments on the issue above ( lo...@openoffice.org + password to login ;-) Thanks in advance, Eric Le 10 nov. 11 à 11:39, Uwe Altmann a écrit : The only - not reproducible - error I got was the first time when I just opened a presentation in edit mode and tried to start it with the center button of the remote, OOO crashed. -- qɔᴉɹə Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
+1 a) Apache OpenOffice.org
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org +1 Regards, Nakata Maho From: Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com Subject: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:47:22 -0800 As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
This belongs on the discuss thread. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2011, at 4:18 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. As promised?! When did you promise a vote on this? I sought lazy consensus on a method to answer these questions. I did this in a proposal sent to the list on October 31st. The proposal called for *2 weeks* of discussion. This was intentionally a longer than normal period in order to try to get consensus. It was also designed to go beyond ApacheCon so everyone could participate freely in the discussion and the vote. There were no objections to this proposal for. So the vote should be not vote on this until November 14th, as stated in the proposal: http://markmail.org/message/ucz4e2ztjn34zy6x So I don't see why you've decided to rush the vote through earlier than we agreed to (via lazy consensus) previously. -Rob a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
Hi eric Am 10.11.11 13:23, schrieb eric b: I forgot : what do you mean with center button ? the one with || ? jep (nice Graphics) Other question : does the crash or the freeze ? occur hiting the Play / Pause button only, or any ? on hit on Play/Pause. Crash and immediate automatic resatart of OOo with document restore window. Feel free to add comments on the issue above ( lo...@openoffice.org + password to login ;-) got my old account and added the above to the issue. btw: remember to change old @openoffice.org mailadresses in Bugzilla to something else because they will be lost in a few days/weeks!! -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
Le 10 nov. 11 à 14:01, Uwe Altmann a écrit : Other question : does the crash or the freeze ? occur hiting the Play / Pause button only, or any ? on hit on Play/Pause. Crash and immediate automatic resatart of OOo with document restore window. Ok, thanks. Let's wait for Raphael confirmation. btw: remember to change old @openoffice.org mailadresses in Bugzilla to something else because they will be lost in a few days/weeks!! I did a reset some times ago. I hope everything is ok ( /me unsure ... ) Regards, Eric
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org +1
Re: agg and epm are still in svn repo.
Hello Jürgen; I value your feedback on this issue, and I will explain: First of all agg as it is/was is not an IP threat and, in general, the rules on how to deal with all the other dependencies were not in place when I did the update anyways. 1) I updated it to version 2.4: this is the last version under a BSD license. It was supported by the internal build system so I doubt anyone complains about having it up to date. 2) I disabled it by default simply because it's not really used in the build. I doubt anyone complains about having off by default something that is not used. I also learned about, and killed, a header that supported the GPC extension which is not AL2 compatible, I cannot say this has brought any benefit at all but there's nothing counterproductive as agg was never really productive. Now about --enable-system-agg; this option is a no-op as all linux/BSD distributions, that I know of, carry version 2.5 of agg which is explicitly prohibited in OOo. This was done by SUN, not by me, perhaps because it's GPL'd now or maybe do to API changes, but it doesn't look like it. I kept agg around because I think it's important to keep the last BSD-licensed version in SVN (if we remove it we can bring it back anytime) and because it may find some uses elsewhere (anyone in need of a C++ rendering engine, like for SVG? ;-) ). Further cleanage of the configure script (which I hate to manipulate to tell you the truth) or even removing agg is relatively easy. Pedro. --- On Thu, 11/10/11, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: wrote: Hi Maho; I personally didn't plan to remove agg. I like it as option and license wise it's OK so I have no pland to remove it, at least for now. well the question really is why you have checked it in this way and has disabled it directly afterwards. That doesn't make any sense and it was counterproductive from my pov. It was initially handled as all other 3rd party modules and we could have dropped it and could have kept the option to use it (if somebody wants) with the option --with-system-agg. Default would be to disable it. I think it would make sense if we follow all the same rules. Juergen I did notice it's still getting built on our port and I have to look at why. I think when I attempt to build AOOo from the tarball it doesn't get built but there are other ugly issues with icu there. About epm I don't know, I guess we can remove that directory now. Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Maho NAKATAm...@apache.org wrote: From: Maho NAKATAm...@apache.org Subject: agg and epm are still in svn repo. To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc: p...@apache.org Date: Wednesday, November 9, 2011, 7:47 PM Hi, while porting AOOo to FreeBSD, pgf@ noticed that agg and epm are still in svn repo. is it correct? Should we remove them? thanks Nakata Maho
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Alexander; We are not killing it at all: it is just more difficult to build. At this time we are focusing on complying with ASF IP requirements, on a later stage we will focus on regaining any lost functionality. I think this would be better as an external module but no one is planning to remove it at all. Pedro. --- On Thu, 11/10/11, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 09/11/11 17:19, Pedro Giffuni a écrit : Hi Pedro, My attempt to contact Pentaho concerning this extension produced no result. I consider this extension orphaned and I think it should be moved elsewhere out. This is most unfortunate. Without a report building module of some kind, all the database segment of users will change from OOo to something else. Of course, there is still the built-in reportdesign module that could be enhanced, but it is relatively unloved and I don't think anything much has happened to it since the Pentaho integration into the OOo source tree. Alex
Re: Fwd: Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
On 11/10/2011 11:48 AM, Kent Åberg wrote: Dear Lars Aronsson, please be careful in claiming yourself as the spokesperson for Sweden. There are other folks around in this nation having other opinions. I don't want to claim anything, I'm just telling what I've seen so far. Please tell me more about Swedish (and Scandinavian) activities going on within Apache OpenOffice. Where is the community? What progress is being made? Is there a wiki page? -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Hi Ariel; I honestly have no idea how this works: can we turn this into an uno extension, and make it available in the extensions site? We can keep the sources, and maybe even some SVN history, in Apache-extras but once it builds I don't think we have to do a lot of maintenance. Pedro. --- On Thu, 11/10/11, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: the reportbuilder won't be built nor released by AOOo, but anyone can take the sources and build it (for example, it would be useful to take the sources and make a Netbeans project out of it). This extension is not really extension in the real sense of the term (extending OOo without touching any line of source code), it depends on the core functionality introduced in the reportdesign module. AOOo is not removing reportdesign nor reportbuilder. The main issue is not the source code (on the software grant from Oracle, so no issue at all), nor the 3rd parties libraries (the code that relies on them can be built as an extension by anyone who wants), but the lack of man power with the knowledge to maintain and further develop it. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina
Reminder on Voting
When voting please remember a few things: 1) All list participants are welcome to vote, whether you are a PPMC member, or not. Everyone is invited to express their preference. However, when we tally the votes, the PPMC votes are what determines the result of the ballot. 2) PPMC members should send their votes from their Apache email addresses, or from another address that they have added to committers/MailAlias.txt. 3) You can vote multiple times, but only your most recent vote before the end of the vote is counted. 4) There is a [DISCUSS] [VOTE] thread as well as a [VOTE] thread. Valid votes go to the vote thread, ongoing discussion to the discussion thread. Since we can all change our votes up to the end of the balloting period, feel free to argue you position in the vote thread. Regards, -Rob
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Hi Pedro, The report builder extension has 49 open bugs: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed;namedcmd=SRB_open;list_id=2823 Lot of bugs reported by me, I was the volunteer QA on this feature. Some of them needs to be repaired, and some features available in pentaho reporting, not implemented it in, for example subreports, and new chart features from OOo. If I know correctly the original developer will not continue working on it. If some developer continue the development, I will do QA on it. Regards, Zoltan 2011.11.10. 16:22 keltezéssel, Pedro Giffuni írta: Hi Ariel; I honestly have no idea how this works: can we turn this into an uno extension, and make it available in the extensions site? We can keep the sources, and maybe even some SVN history, in Apache-extras but once it builds I don't think we have to do a lot of maintenance. Pedro. --- On Thu, 11/10/11, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: the reportbuilder won't be built nor released by AOOo, but anyone can take the sources and build it (for example, it would be useful to take the sources and make a Netbeans project out of it). This extension is not really extension in the real sense of the term (extending OOo without touching any line of source code), it depends on the core functionality introduced in the reportdesign module. AOOo is not removing reportdesign nor reportbuilder. The main issue is not the source code (on the software grant from Oracle, so no issue at all), nor the 3rd parties libraries (the code that relies on them can be built as an extension by anyone who wants), but the lack of man power with the knowledge to maintain and further develop it. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina
Re: agg and epm are still in svn repo.
On 11/10/11 4:09 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: Hello Jürgen; I value your feedback on this issue, and I will explain: First of all agg as it is/was is not an IP threat and, in general, the rules on how to deal with all the other dependencies were not in place when I did the update anyways. 1) I updated it to version 2.4: this is the last version under a BSD license. It was supported by the internal build system so I doubt anyone complains about having it up to date. my main concern here is why you haven't updated the tar file with a newer version and used the same mechanism as for all other 3rd party libs. 2) I disabled it by default simply because it's not really used in the build. I doubt anyone complains about having off by default something that is not used. I also learned about, and killed, a header that supported the GPC extension which is not AL2 compatible, I cannot say this has brought any benefit at all but there's nothing counterproductive as agg was never really productive. ok, drop counterproductive but i still don't understand why you have checked in it at all. The update if necessary could have been done at a later time as well. Now about --enable-system-agg; this option is a no-op as all linux/BSD distributions, that I know of, carry version 2.5 of agg which is explicitly prohibited in OOo. This was done by SUN, not by me, perhaps because it's GPL'd now or maybe do to API changes, but it doesn't look like it. why not analyzing if possible to use it? As it is optional (default=disabled) anyway it would be much easier. I kept agg around because I think it's important to keep the last BSD-licensed version in SVN (if we remove it we can bring it back anytime) and because it may find some uses elsewhere (anyone in need of a C++ rendering engine, like for SVG? ;-) ). Further cleanage of the configure script (which I hate to manipulate to tell you the truth) or even removing agg is relatively easy. you can always ask if others can help. I can think also about much more interesting stuff but some things have to done at the moment ;-) Juergen Pedro. --- On Thu, 11/10/11, Jürgen Schmidtjogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: wrote: Hi Maho; I personally didn't plan to remove agg. I like it as option and license wise it's OK so I have no pland to remove it, at least for now. well the question really is why you have checked it in this way and has disabled it directly afterwards. That doesn't make any sense and it was counterproductive from my pov. It was initially handled as all other 3rd party modules and we could have dropped it and could have kept the option to use it (if somebody wants) with the option --with-system-agg. Default would be to disable it. I think it would make sense if we follow all the same rules. Juergen I did notice it's still getting built on our port and I have to look at why. I think when I attempt to build AOOo from the tarball it doesn't get built but there are other ugly issues with icu there. About epm I don't know, I guess we can remove that directory now. Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Maho NAKATAm...@apache.org wrote: From: Maho NAKATAm...@apache.org Subject: agg and epm are still in svn repo. To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc: p...@apache.org Date: Wednesday, November 9, 2011, 7:47 PM Hi, while porting AOOo to FreeBSD, pgf@ noticed that agg and epm are still in svn repo. is it correct? Should we remove them? thanks Nakata Maho
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Le 10/11/11 16:16, Pedro Giffuni a écrit : Hi Pedro, Ariel, Oh I understand perfectly well why it is being done in this way, I make my living out of intellectual property so I would be the first one to say IP clearance takes precedence in line with the rules that Apache has. I also understand that it could still continue to be built separately, for those who have the time, energy and will to correct the inevitable bitrot build errors that will creep in over time because code has changed elsewhere, but no one thought to bother about adapting those code changes to keep this module buildable. In other words, it will become harder to build and maintain over time because it has been dropped. Nonetheless, even if one looks on the optimistic side, there still remain a few questions : (1) who in all honesty will do it ? - if any of the Linux distribs are interested, they will package it with their own build of AOOo (assuming that some of them switch from LibreOffice to AOOo or just continue to provide both) - what about distrib independent versions - obviously, there will be none from within AOOo itself, since it can not, so quo vadis ? - what about Mac ? - what about Windows ? I think that realistically, resources are spread too thinly on the ground for this to happen at present. (2) what kind of message does this convey to Joe Public ? - AOOo (aka OOo) is destined only for those who know how to build and code ? Somehow, I don't think that you'll hit your target audience with such an approach - a binary version that misses bits of what has become essential functionality for many will not sway people to switch from OOo to AOOo - in fact, it might well even make them switch to competing products. Perhaps someone will find a way of furthering the development of the original report designer instead, because that at least does form part of the SGA (it was already in the initial release of the OOo code all those years ago). I hope so, I really do. Alex
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Hello Reizinger, *, On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Reizinger Zoltán zreizin...@hdsnet.hu wrote: Hi Pedro, The report builder extension has 49 open bugs: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed;namedcmd=SRB_open;list_id=2823 that link didn't work (may be a named saved search?). This may work: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED;bug_status=NEW;bug_status=STARTED;bug_status=REOPENED;component=SRB We can keep the sources, and maybe even some SVN history, in Apache-extras but once it builds I don't think we have to do a lot of maintenance. it actually does. It's not simply an extension. This and the other module, reportdesign, require a maintainer with a deep knowledge of OOo core. Regards Ariel Constenla-Haile
Shutdown of openoffice.org email forwarder: How to notify users
It looks like the email forwarder will not be migrating to Apache. We don't want this to be a surprise to users. We want them to have ample notice to adjust to this change. I'd like to have a discussion on how we can best do this, and to see if there are any volunteers to help with this. ==Plan 1== Publish details on AOOo wiki page, and publicize via mailing lists, website and social media. We can make a wiki page that covers: 1) Clear statement that the forwarding service is going away, why and when? 2) What will happen with emails sent to these addresses (we are not storing any emails, we do not touch them. They will be bounced and the sender will get an error message) 3) What the user needs to do (notify people and services that send emails to their openoffice.org address and ask them to update their address books and records with the new address) 4) Where to go for more informaiton/questions (maybe ooo-users?) If we can get that written up, perhaps with some translations, then we can get the message out via: 1 Apache and legacy OOo mailing lists 2. website home page (both AOOo and OOo) 3. Facebook, Twitter, Google+ This is similar to what we are doing with the mailing list migration. It is low tech, easy to roll out. ==Plan 2== Bulk notification of all 500,000 forwarding accounts that the service is going away. Same information as above, including translations, but pushed to users. This approach would require Oracle to send the notifications.I'm am not certain this is feasible. ==Plan 3== Like Plan 2, but if Oracle is not able to send bulk notifications. We could extract addresses from public sources, including Bugzilla, legacy OOo mailing lists, etc., and send these notices ourselves. ==Plan 4== Another solution would be to take advantage of the period of time when the mail forwarding service is still working to notify users. For example, take the following scenario: a@foo,com sends an email to b...@openoffice.org, which is then forwarded to b...@bar.com Until the email forwarder goes down, we insert an extra step to cause an additional email to be sent to b...@bar.com, letting them know that the forwarding service will be going down. This is a way to notify all active users of the forwarding service. Any ideas for other approaches? Any volunteers to work on any of these approaches? Regards, -Rob
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
+1 for b) Apache OpenOffice Groetjes, Olaf
Re: agg and epm are still in svn repo.
Hi Jürgen; --- On Thu, 11/10/11, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: my main concern here is why you haven't updated the tar file with a newer version and used the same mechanism as for all other 3rd party libs. There has never been any tarball for this. Maybe we should move it to a third party lib but I thought the idea was to move those in instead. ok, drop counterproductive but i still don't understand why you have checked in it at all. The update if necessary could have been done at a later time as well. Time is something relative. I am very new to all this and playing with this stuff that doesn't interfere with the critical path served me to learn SVN and start understanding the build system. I've done other much simpler changes that are of huge importance but this agg thing taught me a lot. Doing it at a later time would certainly not be acceptable: we don't want to move stuff like this the week before a release! ... why not analyzing if possible to use it? As it is optional (default=disabled) anyway it would be much easier. I could have it accept 2.5 but remember: - This is not used by anything in the tree. - We have the compatible version 2.4 already. relatively easy. you can always ask if others can help. I can think also about much more interesting stuff but some things have to done at the moment ;-) I will probably get to see what can be improved in the configure script but for now let's just keep doing what matters :-P. Pedro.
Re: [Mac OS X, Intel] some issue with Apple remote
Le 10/11/11 14:11, eric b a écrit : Hi Eric, Good luck, if you're going to run gdb/valgrind on it :-)) It took me nearly half an hour just to complete the test of this on LO. Oh and paradoxically, I couldn't get it to crash with valgrind runnning. If you are interested, and if it is of any use, I attached a valgrind output to the LO issue I mentioned. Alex
Re: [DISCUSS]+[VOTE] Trademark and Branding
On 2011-11-10 2:18 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: ...snip... i think it is important to know the possibilities later for a project name. If we vote for a) and later on the project name would be the same and the project Url would be openofficeorg.apache.org. Then i would say a bad choice. Note: the URL to the official community homepage of the project on the a.o site is not relevant at the moment, since there's no strict requirement for the full brand name of the project to be identical to the actual URL. It would be fine to call it Apache OpenOffice, and then have the community homepage of the project be ooo.apache.org, for example. The URL only needs to be decided later, before the project graduates from incubation. ...snip... So my question is where should the new product name be used all about? Only on the intro screen, in the help system, in all written docu where we use the product name. Or also as name for the install directory, menu entries etc. The new project name should be the primary branding of the product as an end user would see it on our websites. I.e. it would be at the top of the web page, displayed in the logo (perhaps, depending on the graphical design), would say Download FooBrandSoftware in the links to the download page, and would be part of the actual filename of the primary download file that users would install from. From a branding perspective, the full product branding does not need to be in the menubar, any directory or class or module names, nor similar areas - unless the project wishes to use them there. I really don't think we need to worry about the details of the code and the bulk of the UI yet; that is a larger discussion that can happen once we actually pick a name. I never liked the .org but have conditioned my brain to use it over the past 14 years. Many people don't say OpenOffice.org but OpenOffice, means it is more often used when you reference the product somewhere in written form. Personally, since the common usage is OpenOffice, I strongly prefer that form, as in Apache OpenOffice. - Shane Juergen Just wondering if there will be a second vote for the project name. regards, Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Donald Harbisondpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: We've had a lengthy discussion on ooo-marketing regarding trademark and branding considerations and options. It's time we moved forward and made a decision in order to expedite the ongoing migration of the web site and to remove one more obstacle from the dev team. We want to preserve and protect the historic OpenOffice.org trademark. The choice of an Apache name and new trademark will not impact the historic mark as granted to the Apache Software Foundation for stewardship. Since this is a major decision we felt it important to bring it back to ooo-dev for final discussion then vote. We have the choices presented on the wiki[1] for your reference. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planning https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
Re: Want to blog
INFRA-4099 has been completed, so welcome Armin and Oliver to the OOO blog. - Shane On 2011-11-01 6:00 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi Gavin, On 01.11.2011 12:41, Gavin McDonald wrote: -Original Message- From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 9:13 PM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Want to blog Am 11/01/2011 11:46 AM, schrieb Armin Le Grand: I wanted to blog about e.g. extended OLE attribute/geometry stuff in http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ to make new possibilities more known to the public. Looks like if I have to do a JIRA request. If there are no objections I will put in an Infra request to get added as an blog author for the project's blog. I've tried to send you an invitation for getting an author but it failed. Maybe we have to wait 1-2 days before your user name is known everywhere at ASF. Blogs is not LDAP aware and so accounts need to be requested and then created (by me usually.) At that stage you can invite Armin in though I usually do that at the same time. I just need an ok from a PPMC member ... Here is another Ok. Can you also add myself to the blog world? After a corresponding Ok from another PPMC member, of course. Thanks in advance, Oliver.
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Nov 9, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: As many of you may know, per Dave's announcement about a week or so ago, we have a staging site of *MOST* (we're still finding areas that need to be re-pulled for one reason or another), of the (old) current OO.o site at: http://ooo-site.apache.org Right now, I have a question about the existing pl (Polish) site at http://pl.openoffice.org/ Does anyone on this list know anything about the history of the Polish site -- why this group decided to basically make a duplicate of the OpenOffice.org site but translated? None of the other N-L sites have gone to this length so I'm just curious about it. Is it bigger than the German site? Also, at this point in our migration plans, do we have anyone here who is willing to continue to maintain the pl site as it stands? I think we want to check it in, but then we may want to then remove most of each N-L site (they will be in SVN!) Also note, this site has not yet been ported over to the staging site. And finally, I am having a few problems getting my recent changes to the N-L page to actually publish so no fun link from the staging home page yet. http://ooo-site.apache.org/ I published these just now. ok, thanks. Warning - using the webgui the first time on ooo-site it is suggested that you brew a cup of coffee and come back in 10 minutes. well I didn't use this -- just svn and the publish.pl CLI, but still .. oh my! I've discussed the foo.openoffice.org/bar to www.openoffice.org/foo/barpermanent redirect for the ooo-site Virtual Host and openoffice.org DNS with Joe today - we should specify a full list of the subdomains that will fit this pattern and add it to https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3933 When the time comes to go live Infra will handle the rest of the detail. Regards, Dave -- MzK The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. -- Mohandas Gandhi -- MzK The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. -- Mohandas Gandhi
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org
Hi Marcin and thanks for the reply... 2011/11/10 Marcin Miłkowski milek...@o2.pl Hi, W dniu 2011-11-10 05:37, Louis Suárez-Potts pisze: Hi, On 9 November 2011 18:06, Dave Fisherdave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Nov 9, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: As many of you may know, per Dave's announcement about a week or so ago, we have a staging site of *MOST* (we're still finding areas that need to be re-pulled for one reason or another), of the (old) current OO.o site at: http://ooo-site.apache.org Right now, I have a question about the existing pl (Polish) site at http://pl.openoffice.org/ Does anyone on this list know anything about the history of the Polish site -- why this group decided to basically make a duplicate of the OpenOffice.org site but translated? None of the other N-L sites have gone to this length so I'm just curious about it. Yes, I know much about it. Its history is complicated and its communities even more so. But its current lead (of PL group working on OOo, if not entirely only on OOo itself) has simplified things. It is not a duplicate, but anyway, the point of localized pages is that they host content that is useful to users that do not speak English. If you think that the OOo site was useful, then you might consider that translating some parts of it might be somehow justified ;) Anyway, it mostly contains pointers to other places, and some news parts. There are lists of books and courses about OOo, and some installation instructions that were relevant when the Polish dictionary was not bundled with OOo. Is it bigger than the German site? No. Also, at this point in our migration plans, do we have anyone here who is willing to continue to maintain the pl site as it stands? I can ask the former lead; cc'd here. He is Marcin Milkowski. I don't think anyone is interested in maintaining it anymore. The Polish community moved to LibreOffice and they consider Apache project as a fork. I didn't resign from the Polish lead position but as there's only me left and I have no time for doing anything, the Polish project at OOo is somewhat zombified. Cheers, Marcin Well OK...I guess we will just check it in to the svn repository as Dave suggests but perhaps not link it in to the list of N-L sites. Thanks again for your response. -- MzK The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. -- Mohandas Gandhi
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org
On 2011-11-10 8:44 AM, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Dave Fisherdave2w...@comcast.net wrote: ...snip... Warning - using the webgui the first time on ooo-site it is suggested that you brew a cup of coffee and come back in 10 minutes. well I didn't use this -- just svn and the publish.pl CLI, but still .. oh my! I'll freely admit I don't always understand how the webgui for the CMS is doing it's magic. But yes - depending on how you use it, the first time you edit a file using the webgui on a new source tree, it may need to complete a full checkout of that tree (on it's server), which might take a while before the build completes. In most cases, after that, it uses the cached/previously checked out tree, so changes afterwards should be quick. But this conversation does show a key hidden feature of the CMS: it makes site editing simple for everyone: both those who just want to tweak something while they're browsing a page, or for those who prefer the command line or are even just checking in interim files without looking to publish yet. Thanks Joe! - Shane
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
On 11/10/11 4:47 AM, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office +1 for b) Apache OpenOffice Juergen
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: As many of you may know, per Dave's announcement about a week or so ago, we have a staging site of *MOST* (we're still finding areas that need to be re-pulled for one reason or another), of the (old) current OO.o site at: http://ooo-site.apache.org Right now, I have a question about the existing pl (Polish) site at http://pl.openoffice.org/ Does anyone on this list know anything about the history of the Polish site -- why this group decided to basically make a duplicate of the OpenOffice.org site but translated? None of the other N-L sites have gone to this length so I'm just curious about it. Also, at this point in our migration plans, do we have anyone here who is willing to continue to maintain the pl site as it stands? My general philosophy on this: 1) If there is something useful then it will have users. Users are at the base of the pyramid of a project. If you have many users, then you are healthy. 2) Of the users, a percentage of them will get a little more involve and submit a defect report or maybe even a small patch or other wise get involved a little more. They are the contributors to the project. If they have a good experience with their initial contributions and interactions with the community, then they may do more. 3) And of the contributors there is a percentage that will get fully involved, sign the iCLA, become committers, and work more actively on code, website, documentation, etc. So anything we do to encourage more users, and to make it easy for the users to become contributors will help us have more committers in the future. Does this make sense? So the question I have on the Polish website is, how are we doing for users? Do we know what the download stats are for the Polish version of OOo? If it is significant, I'd assume there are many visitors to those web pages as well. Unfortunately we don't have any page count statistics for our website. So we really don't have a good sense of how much used these pages are. In any case, what I am saying is this: If it is useful and used, then we should keep it and make sure we have a communication to those users that let's them know that we always welcome their help in maintaining that website, and explain how they can get more involved. -Rob Also note, this site has not yet been ported over to the staging site. And finally, I am having a few problems getting my recent changes to the N-L page to actually publish so no fun link from the staging home page yet. http://ooo-site.apache.org/ -- MzK The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. -- Mohandas Gandhi
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
On 2011-11-09 9:47 PM Donald Harbison wrote: b) Apache OpenOffice +1 -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
b) Apache OpenOffice +1
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org
Hi Marcin, Welcome to Apache OpenOffice(.org) (incubating)! On Nov 10, 2011, at 12:39 AM, Marcin Miłkowski wrote: Hi, W dniu 2011-11-10 05:37, Louis Suárez-Potts pisze: Hi, On 9 November 2011 18:06, Dave Fisherdave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Nov 9, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: As many of you may know, per Dave's announcement about a week or so ago, we have a staging site of *MOST* (we're still finding areas that need to be re-pulled for one reason or another), of the (old) current OO.o site at: http://ooo-site.apache.org Right now, I have a question about the existing pl (Polish) site at http://pl.openoffice.org/ Does anyone on this list know anything about the history of the Polish site -- why this group decided to basically make a duplicate of the OpenOffice.org site but translated? None of the other N-L sites have gone to this length so I'm just curious about it. Yes, I know much about it. Its history is complicated and its communities even more so. But its current lead (of PL group working on OOo, if not entirely only on OOo itself) has simplified things. It is not a duplicate, but anyway, the point of localized pages is that they host content that is useful to users that do not speak English. If you think that the OOo site was useful, then you might consider that translating some parts of it might be somehow justified ;) Anyway, it mostly contains pointers to other places, and some news parts. There are lists of books and courses about OOo, and some installation instructions that were relevant when the Polish dictionary was not bundled with OOo. I noticed the hyphenation dictionaries, bat files and exe files. Very interesting. I have noticed as each N-L project is ported that they are all unique. Each community has made its own choices about what is in the site. At the ASF the PPMC must be responsible for governing the project. We must find a way to be a global community, yet we also need to follow a few rules. Best Regards, Dave Is it bigger than the German site? No. Also, at this point in our migration plans, do we have anyone here who is willing to continue to maintain the pl site as it stands? I can ask the former lead; cc'd here. He is Marcin Milkowski. I don't think anyone is interested in maintaining it anymore. The Polish community moved to LibreOffice and they consider Apache project as a fork. I didn't resign from the Polish lead position but as there's only me left and I have no time for doing anything, the Polish project at OOo is somewhat zombified. Cheers, Marcin
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Native-Language Sites (was: Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org)
On Nov 10, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: As many of you may know, per Dave's announcement about a week or so ago, we have a staging site of *MOST* (we're still finding areas that need to be re-pulled for one reason or another), of the (old) current OO.o site at: http://ooo-site.apache.org Right now, I have a question about the existing pl (Polish) site at http://pl.openoffice.org/ Does anyone on this list know anything about the history of the Polish site -- why this group decided to basically make a duplicate of the OpenOffice.org site but translated? None of the other N-L sites have gone to this length so I'm just curious about it. Also, at this point in our migration plans, do we have anyone here who is willing to continue to maintain the pl site as it stands? My general philosophy on this: 1) If there is something useful then it will have users. Users are at the base of the pyramid of a project. If you have many users, then you are healthy. 2) Of the users, a percentage of them will get a little more involve and submit a defect report or maybe even a small patch or other wise get involved a little more. They are the contributors to the project. If they have a good experience with their initial contributions and interactions with the community, then they may do more. 3) And of the contributors there is a percentage that will get fully involved, sign the iCLA, become committers, and work more actively on code, website, documentation, etc. So anything we do to encourage more users, and to make it easy for the users to become contributors will help us have more committers in the future. Does this make sense? Yes! We need to assure that what is done with the N-L sites invites those users into the project. At the same time there are minimum rules about fundraising and licenses that are very different from OpenOffice.org. How do we handle this without understanding the language? The Native Language (N-L) issue is, as Rob points out, more about the whole project and not the N-L sites. I think that the following process should be considered. (1) Migrate each N-L site fully into the Apache SVN. They are all preserved. (2) Tag each site in SVN to preserve the state and make it easy to find the initial state. Keep a record of this tag on an N-L page. (3) Remove from SVN all, or most, of the N-L site. Nothing is really deleted the whole site will always be recoverable from the tag created in (2). (4) Update the www / English site - moving dev portions to the podling and writing the correct guidelines and policies for the main front. (5) As Volunteers appear from a N-L the first task is to translate pages and header links in (4). Translated pages will be accessed using ACCEPT-LANG browser headers, the structure should follow. (6) Each N-L may continue to have a unique main page that will be accessed either at pl.openoffice.org/ redirected to www.openoffice.org/pl (7) Each N-L should have there own links page to go off-site to locally appropriate sites. (8) If an N-L site is doing any fundraising outside of the ASF then that must move off openoffice.org. Those pages should be linked to from the page described in (7) and they must make clear that those funds are not associated with the ASF. This is is something that the ASF requires. (9) A N-L site might need pages that the main site or other N-L sites might not have, in that case maybe everyone needs the page, or one like it. It can be worked out. Obviously there would be a lot of sinew and muscles to add to this skeleton and I've not focused on related spellcheck, dictionary, ML, ..., but does this approach make sense? Regards, Dave So the question I have on the Polish website is, how are we doing for users? Do we know what the download stats are for the Polish version of OOo? If it is significant, I'd assume there are many visitors to those web pages as well. Unfortunately we don't have any page count statistics for our website. So we really don't have a good sense of how much used these pages are. In any case, what I am saying is this: If it is useful and used, then we should keep it and make sure we have a communication to those users that let's them know that we always welcome their help in maintaining that website, and explain how they can get more involved. -Rob Also note, this site has not yet been ported over to the staging site. And finally, I am having a few problems getting my recent changes to the N-L page to actually publish so no fun link from the staging home page yet. http://ooo-site.apache.org/ -- MzK The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. -- Mohandas Gandhi
Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] Trademark and Brand
Hi, Welcome folks from the country of my mother's ancestors! On Nov 10, 2011, at 7:21 AM, Lars Aronsson wrote: On 11/10/2011 11:48 AM, Kent Åberg wrote: Dear Lars Aronsson, please be careful in claiming yourself as the spokesperson for Sweden. There are other folks around in this nation having other opinions. I don't want to claim anything, I'm just telling what I've seen so far. Please tell me more about Swedish (and Scandinavian) activities going on within Apache OpenOffice. Where is the community? What progress is being made? Is there a wiki page? There is a thread where we are discussing how to handle Native-Language sites. It started as a thread about the Polish site. I have changed this to be a discussion about the process for N-L sites. Regards, Dave
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Native-Language Sites (was: Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org)
On Nov 10, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Nov 10, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: As many of you may know, per Dave's announcement about a week or so ago, we have a staging site of *MOST* (we're still finding areas that need to be re-pulled for one reason or another), of the (old) current OO.o site at: http://ooo-site.apache.org Right now, I have a question about the existing pl (Polish) site at http://pl.openoffice.org/ Does anyone on this list know anything about the history of the Polish site -- why this group decided to basically make a duplicate of the OpenOffice.org site but translated? None of the other N-L sites have gone to this length so I'm just curious about it. Also, at this point in our migration plans, do we have anyone here who is willing to continue to maintain the pl site as it stands? My general philosophy on this: 1) If there is something useful then it will have users. Users are at the base of the pyramid of a project. If you have many users, then you are healthy. 2) Of the users, a percentage of them will get a little more involve and submit a defect report or maybe even a small patch or other wise get involved a little more. They are the contributors to the project. If they have a good experience with their initial contributions and interactions with the community, then they may do more. 3) And of the contributors there is a percentage that will get fully involved, sign the iCLA, become committers, and work more actively on code, website, documentation, etc. So anything we do to encourage more users, and to make it easy for the users to become contributors will help us have more committers in the future. Does this make sense? Yes! We need to assure that what is done with the N-L sites invites those users into the project. At the same time there are minimum rules about fundraising and licenses that are very different from OpenOffice.org. How do we handle this without understanding the language? The Native Language (N-L) issue is, as Rob points out, more about the whole project and not the N-L sites. I think that the following process should be considered. (1) Migrate each N-L site fully into the Apache SVN. They are all preserved. (2) Tag each site in SVN to preserve the state and make it easy to find the initial state. Keep a record of this tag on an N-L page. (3) Remove from SVN all, or most, of the N-L site. Nothing is really deleted the whole site will always be recoverable from the tag created in (2). (4) Update the www / English site - moving dev portions to the podling and writing the correct guidelines and policies for the main front. (5) As Volunteers appear from a N-L the first task is to translate pages and header links in (4). Translated pages will be accessed using ACCEPT-LANG browser headers, the structure should follow. (6) Each N-L may continue to have a unique main page that will be accessed either at pl.openoffice.org/ redirected to www.openoffice.org/pl (7) Each N-L should have there own links page to go off-site to locally appropriate sites. (8) If an N-L site is doing any fundraising outside of the ASF then that must move off openoffice.org. Those pages should be linked to from the page described in (7) and they must make clear that those funds are not associated with the ASF. This is is something that the ASF requires. (9) A N-L site might need pages that the main site or other N-L sites might not have, in that case maybe everyone needs the page, or one like it. It can be worked out. +1 Sounds like a very good plan As we document this it will also create a very clear process for integrating new languages. Also, clear boundaries on linking to external resources will help clean up the current situation, identifying what should be inside the Apache OpenOffice effort, and how to interface to activities occurring outside. Obviously there would be a lot of sinew and muscles to add to this skeleton and I've not focused on related spellcheck, dictionary, ML, ..., but does this approach make sense? Regards, Dave So the question I have on the Polish website is, how are we doing for users? Do we know what the download stats are for the Polish version of OOo? If it is significant, I'd assume there are many visitors to those web pages as well. Unfortunately we don't have any page count statistics for our website. So we really don't have a good sense of how much used these pages are. In any case, what I am saying is this: If it is useful and used, then we should keep it and make sure we have a communication to those users that let's them know that we always welcome their help in maintaining that website, and explain how they can get more involved. -Rob Also note, this site has not yet been
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Native-Language Sites (was: Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org)
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: snip I think that the following process should be considered. A few questions, to make sure I understand. (1) Migrate each N-L site fully into the Apache SVN. They are all preserved. In other words, copy the existing static HTML from the legacy OOo website into SVN. I assume this is hooked up to the Apache CMS as well and we point a subdomain to it? (2) Tag each site in SVN to preserve the state and make it easy to find the initial state. Keep a record of this tag on an N-L page. If you check in the N-L site with a single commit, this would be the same as the revision number for the ooo-site/pl directory, for example. Is that correct? In that case we don't really need a tag. (3) Remove from SVN all, or most, of the N-L site. Nothing is really deleted the whole site will always be recoverable from the tag created in (2). I don't understand that step. I understand what you are saying technically, but I don't understand the why. Don't we want to preserve the N-L site? They might require some clean up, if there are things that are out-of-policy, like fund raising. But we should be able to identify these via Google Translates, or even by creating a dump of all external links. (4) Update the www / English site - moving dev portions to the podling and writing the correct guidelines and policies for the main front. OK (5) As Volunteers appear from a N-L the first task is to translate pages and header links in (4). Translated pages will be accessed using ACCEPT-LANG browser headers, the structure should follow. So the idea is we have a set of translated N-L homepages, based on the default English site as a template? And these pages would load based on browser-based language detection. What if I wanted to explicitly load the French or the German page, but my browser is set to English? Would there be some obvious way to do this? (6) Each N-L may continue to have a unique main page that will be accessed either at pl.openoffice.org/ redirected to www.openoffice.org/pl I thought these pages were deleted from SVN per #3 above? (7) Each N-L should have there own links page to go off-site to locally appropriate sites. Should? Or may? Why isn't openoffice.org appropriate? (8) If an N-L site is doing any fundraising outside of the ASF then that must move off openoffice.org. Those pages should be linked to from the page described in (7) and they must make clear that those funds are not associated with the ASF. This is is something that the ASF requires. Linking to an external site is fine, I think, even if it raises funds. Any external links should make it clear that they are non-Apache, etc. But I would not be comfortable linking specifically to a fundraising page. Example 1: Try this site for some amazing Polish templates for Apache OpenOffice and then the linked to site has templates as well as button that says Contribute here to support the development of further templates. Example 2: Click here to donate to support the translators of the Polish OpenOffice and then link directly to PayPal or other page for collecting contributions. I think example 1 is fine, but example 2 would not. I don't think we want to be offering placement to links that are solely or primarily external fund raising links. Otherwise, I could just put in some links to Amazon books related to OpenOffice and have those links be tied to my Amazon Associates account, so I get a cut from Amazon. We can't have stuff like that. (9) A N-L site might need pages that the main site or other N-L sites might not have, in that case maybe everyone needs the page, or one like it. It can be worked out. Obviously there would be a lot of sinew and muscles to add to this skeleton and I've not focused on related spellcheck, dictionary, ML, ..., but does this approach make sense? It is not clear to me whether the diversity in N-L pages was by design or simply from lack of coordination. Just has, for example, all Apache pages have a similar navigational structure, as well as mandatory content, I think we should enforce the same for N-L pages. Remember, these pages represent the AOOo project, and therefore Apache, to visitors who may never see the main English project page. So we need to make sure that all of our bases are covered in on that page: license, how to download, ToU, mailing lists, support forums, etc. And this needs to be done for any entry point the user makes. So I think we're better off with a cookie cutter approach for the webpages, with specific areas for extensibility according to N-L needs. -Rob Regards, Dave So the question I have on the Polish website is, how are we doing for users? Do we know what the download stats are for the Polish version of OOo? If it is significant, I'd assume there are many visitors to those web pages as well. Unfortunately we don't have any page
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
Am 10.11.2011 16:22, schrieb Pedro Giffuni: Hi Ariel; I honestly have no idea how this works: can we turn this into an uno extension, and make it available in the extensions site? The report build *is* an extension. Or are you talking about the jfree jars alone? I'm afraid that they are not used via UNO but plain Java APIs, so there is no chance. Regards, Mathias
Re: agg and epm are still in svn repo.
Am 10.11.2011 16:52, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt: ok, drop counterproductive but i still don't understand why you have checked in it at all. The update if necessary could have been done at a later time as well. You seem to misunderstand what Pedro did. agg was always part of the source tree. IIRC Pedro tried to remove it, but then canvas couldn't be built anymore. So he at least updated it as much as possible. IMHO a good idea. Regards, Mathias
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org from me On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.comwrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011. -- MzK The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. -- Mohandas Gandhi
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Native-Language Sites (was: Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org)
Hi, On 10 November 2011 13:46, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: It is not clear to me whether the diversity in N-L pages was by design or simply from lack of coordination. Intentional. My purpose in permitting the project leads in N-L (and for that matter, all the other projects) was based on two principals: 1. pragmatic reality: I didn't have the time to inspect, police, correct all that I envisioned being created, nor did I want to; 2. I believed then and believe now that local autonomy allows for fastest growth and expansion. And I was right. That said, I did have some provisions in place. No ads, for instance, and no offensive material; and the trademarked material could not be altered. As well, I encouraged colour coherence, and, of course, strongly urged parsimony when it came to creating project lists. License had to be the same as the domain-wide licenses. (We did grudgingly allow for some projects to differ, e.g., the Authors' group associated with Documentation, as they strongly argued for CC licenses. As well, the wikis we used could have been clearer as to which licenses were permitted and what the relation of the wiki was to the other domain projects.) Charles and I posted suggestions at http://native-lang.openoffice.org/ (Charles was effectively appointed to front the N-L category but did little in actually scripting the policies or imposing them.) Just has, for example, all Apache pages have a similar navigational structure, as well as mandatory content, I think we should enforce the same for N-L pages. Remember, these pages represent the AOOo project, and therefore Apache, to visitors who may never see the main English project page. So we need to make sure that all of our bases are covered in on that page: license, how to download, ToU, mailing lists, support forums, etc. And this needs to be done for any entry point the user makes. So I think we're better off with a cookie cutter approach for the webpages, with specific areas for extensibility according to N-L needs. I agree. The issue with the wiki on OOo is a case in point. We need to make it very clear at the outset. There were several attempts to do this, and we can repurpose them, I daresay. The license and aesthetic claims for N-L projects can also be a) repurposed and b) strengthened, if that is our desire. I think at this point, it is. But we also have to clarify what the N-L projects are to be about, if we wish to reconstitute them. On OOo, I designed them to be about education, information, and local marketing; not coding, though localization was strongly encouraged. Primarily, the N-L projects differed from l10n, where coding and much localization was done, in that discussions on N-L lists were in the native tongue of the speakers. I saw this as important and as a powerful lever to open the market. I was right. (That said, it was always my goal and design that the N-L projects would evolve to include more development. There were very few developers of OOo code, and my reasoning was that by progressively introducing OOo both as a product for users in their language, and as a community who operates in their language, and as code they can work with—they would take to it, either out of personal desire or for commercial reasons, even though all code discussions had to be in English. Again, it seemed I was not incorrect in this reasoning, but it just took too long and I had too little support from the contributor companies who by and large could not see the point of the N-Ls anyway.) But I'm not sure that Apache would be right for that kind of logistic, where there are any number of projects operating in the native tongue of the speaker, though where all coding discussions must be in English. However, I do think re-using (or just using plus updates) the extant language for the OOo N-L projects ought to be considered. -louis -louis
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org +1 M.
Re: Shutdown of openoffice.org email forwarder: How to notify users
Rob, On 10 November 2011 11:05, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: It looks like the email forwarder will not be migrating to Apache. Right We don't want this to be a surprise to users. We want them to have ample notice to adjust to this change. I'd like to have a discussion on how we can best do this, and to see if there are any volunteers to help with this. ==Plan 1== Publish details on AOOo wiki page, and publicize via mailing lists, website and social media. We can make a wiki page that covers: 1) Clear statement that the forwarding service is going away, why and when? 2) What will happen with emails sent to these addresses (we are not storing any emails, we do not touch them. They will be bounced and the sender will get an error message) 3) What the user needs to do (notify people and services that send emails to their openoffice.org address and ask them to update their address books and records with the new address) 4) Where to go for more informaiton/questions (maybe ooo-users?) If we can get that written up, perhaps with some translations, then we can get the message out via: 1 Apache and legacy OOo mailing lists 2. website home page (both AOOo and OOo) 3. Facebook, Twitter, Google+ This is similar to what we are doing with the mailing list migration. It is low tech, easy to roll out. ==Plan 2== Bulk notification of all 500,000 forwarding accounts that the service is going away. Same information as above, including translations, but pushed to users. This approach would require Oracle to send the notifications. I'm am not certain this is feasible. It is not; it is also not correct to presume that all members of OOo (more than 500K, probably) would even know what you are talking about. I would argue for plan 1 and further have a bulletin posted to OOo (this can be done) alerting people of it. It would also give me the chance then to announce the closure of OOo, and its new life as a new thing for old people like me (and young-uns, too). cheers, louis ==Plan 3== Like Plan 2, but if Oracle is not able to send bulk notifications. We could extract addresses from public sources, including Bugzilla, legacy OOo mailing lists, etc., and send these notices ourselves. ==Plan 4== Another solution would be to take advantage of the period of time when the mail forwarding service is still working to notify users. For example, take the following scenario: a@foo,com sends an email to b...@openoffice.org, which is then forwarded to b...@bar.com Until the email forwarder goes down, we insert an extra step to cause an additional email to be sent to b...@bar.com, letting them know that the forwarding service will be going down. This is a way to notify all active users of the forwarding service. Any ideas for other approaches? Any volunteers to work on any of these approaches? Regards, -Rob
Re: Report Builder extension (was Re: [proposal] development for the first AOO release)
--- On Thu, 11/10/11, Mathias Bauer mathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: ... Am 10.11.2011 16:22, schrieb Pedro Giffuni: Hi Ariel; I honestly have no idea how this works: can we turn this into an uno extension, and make it available in the extensions site? The report build *is* an extension. Can this be built standalone and made available in the extensions site? Or are you talking about the jfree jars alone? I'm afraid that they are not used via UNO but plain Java APIs, so there is no chance. That's not a problem we just put them in SVN at Apache Extras and bundle them with the extension. The main code will be AL2 but all the requirements maintain the original license, we don't have limitations there. FWIW, there are many OOo extensions maintained in google code already: http://code.google.com/hosting/search?q=openoffice.orgbtn=Search+projects cheers, Pedro.
Re: Shutdown of openoffice.org email forwarder: How to notify users
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lsuarezpo...@gmail.com wrote: Rob, On 10 November 2011 11:05, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: It looks like the email forwarder will not be migrating to Apache. Right We don't want this to be a surprise to users. We want them to have ample notice to adjust to this change. I'd like to have a discussion on how we can best do this, and to see if there are any volunteers to help with this. ==Plan 1== Publish details on AOOo wiki page, and publicize via mailing lists, website and social media. We can make a wiki page that covers: 1) Clear statement that the forwarding service is going away, why and when? 2) What will happen with emails sent to these addresses (we are not storing any emails, we do not touch them. They will be bounced and the sender will get an error message) 3) What the user needs to do (notify people and services that send emails to their openoffice.org address and ask them to update their address books and records with the new address) 4) Where to go for more informaiton/questions (maybe ooo-users?) If we can get that written up, perhaps with some translations, then we can get the message out via: 1 Apache and legacy OOo mailing lists 2. website home page (both AOOo and OOo) 3. Facebook, Twitter, Google+ This is similar to what we are doing with the mailing list migration. It is low tech, easy to roll out. ==Plan 2== Bulk notification of all 500,000 forwarding accounts that the service is going away. Same information as above, including translations, but pushed to users. This approach would require Oracle to send the notifications. I'm am not certain this is feasible. It is not; it is also not correct to presume that all members of OOo (more than 500K, probably) would even know what you are talking about. I sometimes wonder whether anyone says what I am saying. But I do take some solace in Gertrude Stein's: Clarity is of no importance because nobody listens and nobody knows what you mean no matter what you mean, nor how clearly you mean what you mean. But if you have vitality enough of knowing enough of what you mean, somebody and sometime and sometimes a great many will have to realize that you know what you mean and so they will agree that you mean what you know, what you know you mean, which is as near as anybody can come to understanding anyone. ;-) I would argue for plan 1 and further have a bulletin posted to OOo (this can be done) alerting people of it. It would also give me the chance then to announce the closure of OOo, and its new life as a new thing for old people like me (and young-uns, too). My preference is #1 as well. It is low tech, but that means we might actually get it to work. -Rob cheers, louis ==Plan 3== Like Plan 2, but if Oracle is not able to send bulk notifications. We could extract addresses from public sources, including Bugzilla, legacy OOo mailing lists, etc., and send these notices ourselves. ==Plan 4== Another solution would be to take advantage of the period of time when the mail forwarding service is still working to notify users. For example, take the following scenario: a@foo,com sends an email to b...@openoffice.org, which is then forwarded to b...@bar.com Until the email forwarder goes down, we insert an extra step to cause an additional email to be sent to b...@bar.com, letting them know that the forwarding service will be going down. This is a way to notify all active users of the forwarding service. Any ideas for other approaches? Any volunteers to work on any of these approaches? Regards, -Rob
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
b) Apache OpenOffice +1
Re: [DISCUSS]+[VOTE] Trademark and Branding
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Shane Curcuru a...@shanecurcuru.org wrote: On 2011-11-10 2:18 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote: ...snip... i think it is important to know the possibilities later for a project name. If we vote for a) and later on the project name would be the same and the project Url would be openofficeorg.apache.org. Then i would say a bad choice. Note: the URL to the official community homepage of the project on the a.o site is not relevant at the moment, since there's no strict requirement for the full brand name of the project to be identical to the actual URL. It would be fine to call it Apache OpenOffice, and then have the community homepage of the project be ooo.apache.org, for example. The URL only needs to be decided later, before the project graduates from incubation. ...snip... So my question is where should the new product name be used all about? Only on the intro screen, in the help system, in all written docu where we use the product name. Or also as name for the install directory, menu entries etc. The new project name should be the primary branding of the product as an end user would see it on our websites. I.e. it would be at the top of the web page, displayed in the logo (perhaps, depending on the graphical design), would say Download FooBrandSoftware in the links to the download page, and would be part of the actual filename of the primary download file that users would install from. From a branding perspective, the full product branding does not need to be in the menubar, any directory or class or module names, nor similar areas - unless the project wishes to use them there. I really don't think we need to worry about the details of the code and the bulk of the UI yet; that is a larger discussion that can happen once we actually pick a name. I never liked the .org but have conditioned my brain to use it over the past 14 years. Many people don't say OpenOffice.org but OpenOffice, means it is more often used when you reference the product somewhere in written form. Personally, since the common usage is OpenOffice, I strongly prefer that form, as in Apache OpenOffice. +1 - Shane Juergen Just wondering if there will be a second vote for the project name. regards, Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Donald Harbisondpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: We've had a lengthy discussion on ooo-marketing regarding trademark and branding considerations and options. It's time we moved forward and made a decision in order to expedite the ongoing migration of the web site and to remove one more obstacle from the dev team. We want to preserve and protect the historic OpenOffice.org trademark. The choice of an Apache name and new trademark will not impact the historic mark as granted to the Apache Software Foundation for stewardship. Since this is a major decision we felt it important to bring it back to ooo-dev for final discussion then vote. We have the choices presented on the wiki[1] for your reference. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planning https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planninghttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
OOo Business...
I continue (naturally) to receive many requests from businesses (small and large) to use the trademarked OpenOffice.org logo. I generally pass on these, as there seemed, until very recently, a mystery on how to proceed. I'm still in need of enlightenment, and would appreciate some guidance. * I think it's pointless to endorse OpenOffice.org at this point. The probable name of its successor will be Apache OpenOffice or some variant thereof. And that new name will come into play very soon indeed. We will need to progressively inform all those using the old logo/name/trademark to switch over with new installation sets. * I would therefore like to be able to respond to those requesting use of the trademark, etc., to wait a little bit, and then to return to us—preferably to a wiki or even better, an automated service, such as we used on OOo, for this. (The automated service allowed us to docket requests and act more expeditiously, while also giving room for more fully understanding the request. Otherwise, the requests were simply sent to a list I set up for this and which John, Florian, and I managed for several years, though it really seems like an eternity—and John was doing much of the work.) — I also receive many (well, a few) requests and inquiries about contributing to OpenOffice.org code. (Rob has been included in one such.) Right now, it's a little easier to tell people what to do—join Apache's lists for OOo in the Incubator, participate, contribute. But not all requests are quite so simple. For instance, what about templates? Extensions? I have no problem with telling people to join the lists where the contributions are, and to proceed according to the Apache way (tao of apache?) but perhaps there are other answers I should give? (Oh, and I have no problem whatsoever with others taking on this role. I've just been doing it as an extension of my previous existence modulo OOo, not as an assertion of nonexistent authority.) Thanks louis
a) Apache OpenOffice.org
-- Richard (Rrickey) Clary Sr. Analyst Product Introduction (Retired)
Re: [DISCUSS][WWW] Current Polish web site -- pl.openoffice.org
Hi On 10 November 2011 12:40, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: I have noticed as each N-L project is ported that they are all unique. Each community has made its own choices about what is in the site. At the ASF the PPMC must be responsible for governing the project. We must find a way to be a global community, yet we also need to follow a few rules. I quite agree. The issue with us, was that we needed—or I felt we needed—to grow exponentially, and fast. But at this point, I do believe that autonomy is great, but autonomy without community is a nonstarter, and a community only can sustain itself by agreeing to core beliefs and practices. As we no longer have corporate overlords here in Apache land, and as we really are a community driven thing, a res publica, then I would suggest that one of our topmost orders of business be the communal crafting and articulation and posting of a manifesto—a declaration of identity within Apache—that gives guidance as well as identity to Apache OO's members/contributors. Cheers louis
RE: Shutdown of openoffice.org email forwarder: How to notify users
Since it appears that the forwarding list will never be in ASF custody, I don't see how the project has any recourse but Plan 1. Everything else depends on action by Oracle or access to processes operated by Oracle. I recommend that Oracle action be requested and that Plan 1 be carried out regardless. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 08:06 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Shutdown of openoffice.org email forwarder: How to notify users It looks like the email forwarder will not be migrating to Apache. We don't want this to be a surprise to users. We want them to have ample notice to adjust to this change. I'd like to have a discussion on how we can best do this, and to see if there are any volunteers to help with this. ==Plan 1== Publish details on AOOo wiki page, and publicize via mailing lists, website and social media. We can make a wiki page that covers: 1) Clear statement that the forwarding service is going away, why and when? 2) What will happen with emails sent to these addresses (we are not storing any emails, we do not touch them. They will be bounced and the sender will get an error message) 3) What the user needs to do (notify people and services that send emails to their openoffice.org address and ask them to update their address books and records with the new address) 4) Where to go for more informaiton/questions (maybe ooo-users?) If we can get that written up, perhaps with some translations, then we can get the message out via: 1 Apache and legacy OOo mailing lists 2. website home page (both AOOo and OOo) 3. Facebook, Twitter, Google+ This is similar to what we are doing with the mailing list migration. It is low tech, easy to roll out. ==Plan 2== Bulk notification of all 500,000 forwarding accounts that the service is going away. Same information as above, including translations, but pushed to users. This approach would require Oracle to send the notifications.I'm am not certain this is feasible. ==Plan 3== Like Plan 2, but if Oracle is not able to send bulk notifications. We could extract addresses from public sources, including Bugzilla, legacy OOo mailing lists, etc., and send these notices ourselves. ==Plan 4== Another solution would be to take advantage of the period of time when the mail forwarding service is still working to notify users. For example, take the following scenario: a@foo,com sends an email to b...@openoffice.org, which is then forwarded to b...@bar.com Until the email forwarder goes down, we insert an extra step to cause an additional email to be sent to b...@bar.com, letting them know that the forwarding service will be going down. This is a way to notify all active users of the forwarding service. Any ideas for other approaches? Any volunteers to work on any of these approaches? Regards, -Rob
Re: OOo Business...
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lo...@apache.org wrote: I continue (naturally) to receive many requests from businesses (small and large) to use the trademarked OpenOffice.org logo. I generally pass on these, as there seemed, until very recently, a mystery on how to proceed. I'm still in need of enlightenment, and would appreciate some guidance. Apache controls that trademark now, so only Apache can give permission to use it. We've received such requests as well, two of them so far, on this very list. We have a process we take these requests through. In both cases the requests were granted. I'd recommend something like this: 1) Have the person who wants to use the trademark check this page and make sure they really need permission. In some cases (nominative use) no permission is required. http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ 2) If they actually do require permission, then they should send the request to this ooo-dev list. If there was something especially sensitive (unannounced product plans or similar), they could send the request to ooo-private, We would discuss and decide if we (the PPMC) supported the request or not. 3) If we supported the request, then we would send our recommendation to the Apache VP of Branding, who makes the final decision. (We should really write up this procedure) * I think it's pointless to endorse OpenOffice.org at this point. The probable name of its successor will be Apache OpenOffice or some variant thereof. And that new name will come into play very soon indeed. We will need to progressively inform all those using the old logo/name/trademark to switch over with new installation sets. There will be a transition period. So if someone is doing something with OOo 3.3 in the immediate future, a book a video or whatever, then they may want to get permission. * I would therefore like to be able to respond to those requesting use of the trademark, etc., to wait a little bit, and then to return to us—preferably to a wiki or even better, an automated service, such as we used on OOo, for this. (The automated service allowed us to docket requests and act more expeditiously, while also giving room for more fully understanding the request. Otherwise, the requests were simply sent to a list I set up for this and which John, Florian, and I managed for several years, though it really seems like an eternity—and John was doing much of the work.) Right now the volume has been thin enough that ooo-dev was fine. In fact, the volume of other stuff on ooo-dev is probably more overwhelming to the person requesting permission. — I also receive many (well, a few) requests and inquiries about contributing to OpenOffice.org code. (Rob has been included in one such.) Right now, it's a little easier to tell people what to do—join Apache's lists for OOo in the Incubator, participate, contribute. But not all requests are quite so simple. For instance, what about templates? Extensions? I have no problem with telling people to join the lists where the contributions are, and to proceed according to the Apache way (tao of apache?) but perhaps there are other answers I should give? (Oh, and I have no problem whatsoever with others taking on this role. I've just been doing it as an extension of my previous existence modulo OOo, not as an assertion of nonexistent authority.) I usually point people to ooo-dev, but first I point them to podling website for background info, explain the roles at Apache, etc. Extensions are an in-between thing. Do we want to support extension authors on ooo-dev or ooo-users? They are really a type of user, using the extensibility features of OpenOffice. -Rob Thanks louis
Re: Shutdown of openoffice.org email forwarder: How to notify users
On 2011-11-10 11:09 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: ...snip... I would argue for plan 1 and further have a bulletin posted to OOo (this can be done) alerting people of it. It would also give me the chance then to announce the closure of OOo, and its new life as a new thing for old people like me (and young-uns, too). Can you describe more what you mean when you say give me the chance to announce the closure of OOo? I thought that was what the PPMC as a whole was doing with the site migration, the official project blog, the migration wiki page, etc. - Shane, curious
Re: OOo Business...
On Nov 10, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: I continue (naturally) to receive many requests from businesses (small and large) to use the trademarked OpenOffice.org logo. I generally pass on these, as there seemed, until very recently, a mystery on how to proceed. I'm still in need of enlightenment, and would appreciate some guidance. * I think it's pointless to endorse OpenOffice.org at this point. The probable name of its successor will be Apache OpenOffice or some variant thereof. And that new name will come into play very soon indeed. We will need to progressively inform all those using the old logo/name/trademark to switch over with new installation sets. It is not pointless. We plan to keep this registered trademark and domain regardless of the product name. * I would therefore like to be able to respond to those requesting use of the trademark, etc., to wait a little bit, and then to return to us—preferably to a wiki or even better, an automated service, such as we used on OOo, for this. (The automated service allowed us to docket requests and act more expeditiously, while also giving room for more fully understanding the request. Otherwise, the requests were simply sent to a list I set up for this and which John, Florian, and I managed for several years, though it really seems like an eternity—and John was doing much of the work.) I may be wrong, but trademark requests need to go to the PPMC. Since these are private matters - ooo-private@i.a.o. Requests will be evaluated and forwarded to trademarks@a.o for approval. This is the current process which we've used in one or two cases. — I also receive many (well, a few) requests and inquiries about contributing to OpenOffice.org code. (Rob has been included in one such.) Right now, it's a little easier to tell people what to do—join Apache's lists for OOo in the Incubator, participate, contribute. But not all requests are quite so simple. For instance, what about templates? Extensions? I have no problem with telling people to join the lists where the contributions are, and to proceed according to the Apache way (tao of apache?) but perhaps there are other answers I should give? (Oh, and I have no problem whatsoever with others taking on this role. I've just been doing it as an extension of my previous existence modulo OOo, not as an assertion of nonexistent authority.) We've yet to find a volunteer to take the lead on dealing with these overloaded Drupal servers at OSUOSL. Regards, Dave Thanks louis
Re: Help Docs Proprietary Documentation
You'll want to ask Andrew Rist. D On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lo...@apache.orgwrote: During the last year of OOo @ Oracle, a lot of rather good material was created to help/train users fresh (or forgetful) to OpenOffice.org and Oracle Open Office. This material as created by Oracle was proprietary: O owned it. So, my query. What has become of it? It has little value, as far as I can tell, for Oracle, at this point. But it would prove immensely useful for many constituting the OOo (now AOO, I'd guess) ecosystem. (Building that ecosystem was one of my primary tasks, and I like to think I did fairly well at it.) Does anyone know what happened to the material? And, if Apache now has it, can we license it or simply permit it for ecosystem use under the appropriate conditions and license? My preference would be to make all training and educational material free (in all senses) and to recuperate costs with actual services provided. Thanks Louis
Re: Reminder on Voting
On 11/10/2011 14:56, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Shouldn't arguments about a position be on the [DISCUSS][VOTE] thread? Or do you mean voters simply making a declaration on how they chose their [VOTE] in the same message? It should be easy and obvious to tell which messages are cast votes and what the vote is. Votes should not be difficult to tally and those messages should be the only one with [VOTE] subject. - Dennis Well, maybe. We already have one email on a thread of its own, with subject a) Apache OpenOffice.org ... --/tj/ -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 07:37 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Reminder on Voting [ ... ] 4) There is a [DISCUSS] [VOTE] thread as well as a [VOTE] thread. Valid votes go to the vote thread, ongoing discussion to the discussion thread. Since we can all change our votes up to the end of the balloting period, feel free to argue you position in the vote thread. Regards, -Rob
Re: Help Docs Proprietary Documentation
hi On 10 November 2011 15:26, Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com wrote: You'll want to ask Andrew Rist. I thought I just did :-) Louis D On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lo...@apache.orgwrote: During the last year of OOo @ Oracle, a lot of rather good material was created to help/train users fresh (or forgetful) to OpenOffice.org and Oracle Open Office. This material as created by Oracle was proprietary: O owned it. So, my query. What has become of it? It has little value, as far as I can tell, for Oracle, at this point. But it would prove immensely useful for many constituting the OOo (now AOO, I'd guess) ecosystem. (Building that ecosystem was one of my primary tasks, and I like to think I did fairly well at it.) Does anyone know what happened to the material? And, if Apache now has it, can we license it or simply permit it for ecosystem use under the appropriate conditions and license? My preference would be to make all training and educational material free (in all senses) and to recuperate costs with actual services provided. Thanks Louis
Re: OOo Business...
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lsuarezpo...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Rob, Dave. I would suggest that when queries come to us we a) point them to a flux page (a wiki, say) and ultimately to the lists/persons Dave mentions. The emphasis must be on the new context: Apache. As OOo gets rather a lot of these, I'd further suggest we consider doing what we did at OOo, and pretty much automate the *request* process, if not the *granting* one. (Example of request: I want to promote OpenOffice.org and put the logo on my site. Can I? or, I want to issue CDROMs and charge for media and labour and use the logo and trademark: Can I? Both these queries can be answered with boilerplate.) Could we use Bugzilla for this? Even if the interface is too geeky for the requester, any of us could quickly transcribe the request into a new issue for tracking and workflow. -Rob
Re: OOo Business...
I'd suggest the email form, as Louis suggests, especially if said email has to go to ooo-private, as Rob said. (Rule one is, we don't talk about ooo-private...) It can be at the end of, or linked to from, a FAQ. Simple and quick for the user, and can include a subject tag for easy identification by the list moderators. Also transparent to users if you later decide to send said requests to, say, ooo-marketing. Don
Re: OOo Business...
Rob, On 10 November 2011 16:09, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: Could we use Bugzilla for this? Even if the interface is too geeky for the requester, any of us could quickly transcribe the request into a new issue for tracking and workflow. Let's follow Don's and Dave's suggestions and then go from there. But to answer your query: sure…. but imagine standing under a hot shower: nice. Then imagine standing under a waterfall, say the Victoria Falls. Not nice. :-) Anything that places a human agent, especially unpaid, in the role of doing something tedious but also important like this day in and day out risks too much. It is better to take our experience seriously and implement, as much as possible, vetted automagical tools that nevertheless allow us room to scrutinize. lsp
Re: OOo Business...
On Nov 10, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Rob, On 10 November 2011 16:09, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: Could we use Bugzilla for this? Even if the interface is too geeky for the requester, any of us could quickly transcribe the request into a new issue for tracking and workflow. Let's follow Don's and Dave's suggestions and then go from there. But to answer your query: sure…. but imagine standing under a hot shower: nice. Then imagine standing under a waterfall, say the Victoria Falls. Not nice. :-) Anything that places a human agent, especially unpaid, in the role of doing something tedious but also important like this day in and day out risks too much. It is better to take our experience seriously and implement, as much as possible, vetted automagical tools that nevertheless allow us room to scrutinize. If this truly is a fire hose of requests then it probably needs its own list which can examined from time to time and then followed up on. The subject controls the type and some set of PPMC volunteers can be delegated to check. How many requests are received in a month? Regards, Dave lsp
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
This is to replace previous vote after removing 'Fwd' from the subject line. I vote for Apache Open Office. - Original Message - From: Rob Weir robw...@apache.org To: ooo-market...@incubator.apache.org Cc: Sent: Friday, 11 November 2011 4:24 AM Subject: Fwd: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand Looks like the vote has started already on the ooo-dev list. If you want to register your opinion, please send your vote to ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org. So not to the ooo-marketing list, but to ooo-dev. Thanks! -Rob -- Forwarded message -- From: Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com Date: Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:47 PM Subject: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
Re: Fwd: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
I vote for Apache Open Office. - Original Message - From: Rob Weir robw...@apache.org To: ooo-market...@incubator.apache.org Cc: Sent: Friday, 11 November 2011 4:24 AM Subject: Fwd: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand Looks like the vote has started already on the ooo-dev list. If you want to register your opinion, please send your vote to ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org. So not to the ooo-marketing list, but to ooo-dev. Thanks! -Rob -- Forwarded message -- From: Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com Date: Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 10:47 PM Subject: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
Re: OOo Business...
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Nov 10, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Rob, On 10 November 2011 16:09, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: Could we use Bugzilla for this? Even if the interface is too geeky for the requester, any of us could quickly transcribe the request into a new issue for tracking and workflow. Let's follow Don's and Dave's suggestions and then go from there. But to answer your query: sure…. but imagine standing under a hot shower: nice. Then imagine standing under a waterfall, say the Victoria Falls. Not nice. :-) Anything that places a human agent, especially unpaid, in the role of doing something tedious but also important like this day in and day out risks too much. It is better to take our experience seriously and implement, as much as possible, vetted automagical tools that nevertheless allow us room to scrutinize. If this truly is a fire hose of requests then it probably needs its own list which can examined from time to time and then followed up on. I'd like to see a little this rumored fire house before we take the step of creating a dedicated list for it. My guess is there are few requests that actually require permission and many others that merely require that we point to FAQ. ooo-marketing might be the right list to steer the requests to for now. This would be appropriate because many of the co-marketing opportunities, e.g., a new AOOo-derived product might be linked to on our site, along with other derivatives. Books and other things might also get links. -Rob
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
On 2011-11-09 7:47 PM, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office +1 b) Apache OpenOffice (non-binding) - Shane, podling mentor
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
Hi On 10-11-2011 01:47, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office Interesting. So far, i counted 15 AOO and 16 AOOo. Very closed. As in Brasil the name was BrOffice.org, but always the reference was BrOffice, my vote go to b) Apache OpenOffice. Regards, Claudio
Re: OOo Business...
Hi, On 10 November 2011 17:17, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Nov 10, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Rob, On 10 November 2011 16:09, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: Could we use Bugzilla for this? Even if the interface is too geeky for the requester, any of us could quickly transcribe the request into a new issue for tracking and workflow. Let's follow Don's and Dave's suggestions and then go from there. But to answer your query: sure…. but imagine standing under a hot shower: nice. Then imagine standing under a waterfall, say the Victoria Falls. Not nice. :-) Anything that places a human agent, especially unpaid, in the role of doing something tedious but also important like this day in and day out risks too much. It is better to take our experience seriously and implement, as much as possible, vetted automagical tools that nevertheless allow us room to scrutinize. If this truly is a fire hose of requests then it probably needs its own list which can examined from time to time and then followed up on. Uhm. I think a list is good… but. We did that at OOo, and it worked so-so and then not well at all. We used logos@marketing, and the idea was to make it open to all, so that they could freely and without logging in ask for permission (my idea to ask for permission—heretical in an open source environment, it seemed—but also pleasing to the corporate owners to control distribution of the trademark or at least know of its distribution). The result was the expected: Spam Heaven or Hell, depending. With time, we (Stefan, mainly) erected a Web front on services, http://surveys.services.openoffice.org/surveys/index.php?sid=31881lang=en, though I don't know if it's operational, still (just checked and it seems kaput). But it was a simple survey script asking fairly innocuous questions that can and ought to be refined to suit the present need. Once a requester filled out the form and submitted it, the responsables got it. In this case that meant those employed by Sun and then Oracle and in leadership roles. Earlier, the request list managing was pretty much delegated entirely to the Marketing leads. For routine requests: humans did not have to do anything. If someone wanted to deploy the trademark and agreed to do so according to the rules and guidelines, great. If they had a more complicated request, such as altering the code to include their contribution (say, a proprietary extension), then this would be treated by a registered human (me! or a reasonable facsimile thereof). If someone was violating our trademark—this, shockingly, happens, even now—I would proceed by sending notices and hint at darker powers (the Sun or Oracle legal staff), escalating as needed. Usually wasn't needed. And so on. The idea was to minimize the human intervention and to make it easier to promulgate and proliferate the app. and grow the community. The subject controls the type and some set of PPMC volunteers can be delegated to check. How many requests are received in a month? The quantity: Much of it when we only used the logos@ list, was spam. When we started using the Web interface, the number dropped precipitously and it became manageable by regular humans. But once we go public again with our new(ed) existence, I'd imagine that not only would extant deployers want to use the new logo, but that there will be a flood of new requests, and I think we ought to make it easier on us all. I can't give an accurate number right now, as the Web page is off. But I'd say toward the end about 10 or so; but that was using the Web interface, which evaded the spam effect. Regards, Dave Cheers, Louis
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
Hello. +1 b) Apache OpenOffice. On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Claudio F Filho filh...@gmail.com wrote: Hi On 10-11-2011 01:47, Donald Harbison wrote: As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office Interesting. So far, i counted 15 AOO and 16 AOOo. Very closed. As in Brasil the name was BrOffice.org, but always the reference was BrOffice, my vote go to b) Apache OpenOffice. Regards, Claudio
Re: Do recent bugs filed against Libre 3.4 need to be refiled with apache tracker?
On 09/11/2011 Pedro Giffuni wrote: On the long run I think LO and AOOo will keep diverging more and more and the number of shared bugs will eventually vanish. It might be, but in recent months I actually did cross-link bugs from the OpenOffice.org Bugzilla to the LibreOffice bug tracker and vice versa, a few times. Since many users of OpenOffice.org are not technical and might be unable to properly describe a bug, having a bug properly triaged on the LibreOffice tracker will save time for the OpenOffice.org developers (and the same holds the other way round, of course, the only difference being license compatibility of patches, but this is another stage; I'm only considering bug triaging here). Regards, Andrea.
Re: GPL'd dictionaries (was Re: ftp.services.openoffice.org?)
On 09/11/2011 Mathias Bauer wrote: On Linux we even can use the Hunspell dictionaries that are installed (or installable) in the system. It needs to provide a single configuration file in the build to make that happen (at least last time I used that feature). True, but as others noted, here we are using the generic term dictionary to mean the dictionary file for spell-checking, the thesaurus and the hyphenation rules. System dictionaries would only cover the first case, probably. So even systems that provide out-of-the-box spell-checking facilities will need specific resources to match the current state of the art in OpenOffice.org. Regards, Andrea.
Re: GPL'd dictionaries (was Re: ftp.services.openoffice.org?)
On 08/11/2011 Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: dictionaries are extensions. They have their place at http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/dictionaries The people actually developing the dictionary build the extension and upload them to that site. The same situation as before Yes, except that for ordinary users there is a huge difference between a prepackaged dictionary (in the install set, I mean) and a manual post-install download. Excluding dictionaries from builds would result in confused/enraged users unless there is a way to make dictionary installation so smooth that users won't notice (but this is hard; Microsoft Windows users will get alarming warnings from their personal firewall if the OpenOffice.org installer tries to download a dictionary...). Regards, Andrea.
Re: Module VCL doesn't link external ICU
Hi Ariel;
Unfortunately I still have problems building vcl with
the external ICU:
[ build DEP ] LNK:StaticLibrary/libvclmain.a
R=/usr/ports/editors/openoffice.org-3-devel/work/ooo S=$R/main
O=$S/solver/340/unxfbsdx.pro W=$O/workdir mkdir -p
$W/Dep/LinkTarget/StaticLibrary/ RESPONSEFILE=/tmp/gbuild.uNSUdc cat
${RESPONSEFILE} /dev/null | xargs -n 200 cat
$W/Dep/LinkTarget/StaticLibrary/libvclmain.a.d rm -f ${RESPONSEFILE}
[ build DEP ] LNK:Library/libvcl.so
R=/usr/ports/editors/openoffice.org-3-devel/work/ooo S=$R/main
O=$S/solver/340/unxfbsdx.pro W=$O/workdir mkdir -p
$W/Dep/LinkTarget/Library/ RESPONSEFILE=/tmp/gbuild.MjHeWC cat
${RESPONSEFILE} /dev/null | xargs -n 200 cat
$W/Dep/LinkTarget/Library/libvcl.so.d rm -f ${RESPONSEFILE}
[ build LNK ] Library/libvcl.so
R=/usr/ports/editors/openoffice.org-3-devel/work/ooo S=$R/main
O=$S/solver/340/unxfbsdx.pro W=$O/workdir mkdir -p
$W/LinkTarget/Library/ c++ -shared -Wl,-z,noexecstack -Wl,-z,origin
-Wl,-rpath,'$ORIGIN:$ORIGIN/../ure-link/lib' -Wl,-rpath-link,'$O/lib'
-Wl,-rpath-link=:/lib:/usr/lib:/usr/local/lib -Wl,-z,combreloc -Wl,-z,defs
-L$S/solenv/unxfbsdx/lib -L$O/lib -L$S/solenv/unxfbsdx/lib
-L/usr/local/openjdk6/lib -L/usr/local/openjdk6/jre/lib/amd64
-L/usr/local/openjdk6/jre/lib/amd64/server
-L/usr/local/openjdk6/jre/lib/amd64/native_threads -L/usr/local/lib
-Wl,--hash-style=both -Wl,--dynamic-list-cpp-new
-Wl,--dynamic-list-cpp-typeinfo -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -ltl -lutl -lsot
-lucbhelper4gcc3 -lbasegfx -lcomphelpgcc3 -luno_cppuhelpergcc3 -licuuc -licule
-li18nisolang1gcc3 -li18npaper -li18nutilgcc3 -ljvmaccessgcc3 -lstdc++
-luno_cppu -luno_sal -lvos3gcc3 -lfreetype
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/glyphs/gcach_ftyp.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/glyphs/gcach_layout.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/glyphs/gcach_rbmp.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/glyphs/glyphcache.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/fontmanager/fontcache.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/fontmanager/fontconfig.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/fontmanager/fontmanager.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/fontmanager/helper.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/fontmanager/parseAFM.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/plugadapt/salplug.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/printer/cupsmgr.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/printer/jobdata.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/printer/ppdparser.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/unx/generic/printer/printerinfomanager.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/dbggui.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/dndhelp.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/help.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/i18nhelp.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/idlemgr.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/salvtables.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/session.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/settings.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/sound.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/stdtext.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/svapp.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/svdata.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/svmain.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/svmainhook.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/timer.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/unohelp2.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/unohelp.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/app/vclevent.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/components/display.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/components/dtranscomp.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/components/factory.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/components/fontident.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/components/rasterizer_rsvg.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/components/stringmirror.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/button.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/combobox.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/ctrl.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/edit.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/field2.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/field.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/fixbrd.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/fixed.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/group.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/ilstbox.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/imgctrl.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/longcurr.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/lstbox.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/menubtn.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/morebtn.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/quickselectionengine.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/scrbar.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/slider.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/spinbtn.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/spinfld.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/tabctrl.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/control/throbber.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/fontsubset/cff.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/fontsubset/fontsubset.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/fontsubset/gsub.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/fontsubset/list.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/fontsubset/sft.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/fontsubset/ttcr.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/fontsubset/xlat.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/alpha.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/animate.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/base14.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/bitmap2.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/bitmap3.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/bitmap4.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/bitmap.o $W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/bitmapex.o
$W/CxxObject/vcl/source/gdi/bmpacc2.o
Re: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org Peter On 11/11/2011 3:07 AM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote: a) Apache OpenOffice.org +1 M.
RE: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office I vote for (b) Apache OpenOffice. Binding (PPMC member). BTW, it was not specified how the winner of this vote would be determined. IMO, we should be using ranked-choice IRV voting. Since the ballot did not request that the options be ranked, if none of the options is the top choice of more than 50% of the PPMC members, then the option receiving the least votes should be eliminated and we should then vote on the remaining three options.
RE: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office I vote for (b) Apache OpenOffice. Binding (PPMC member). BTW, it was not specified how the winner of this vote would be determined. IMO, we should be using ranked-choice IRV voting. Since the ballot did not request that the options be ranked, if none of the options is the top choice of more than 50% of the PPMC members, then the option receiving the least votes should be eliminated and we should then vote on the remaining three options.
Res: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand
+1 for b) Apache OpenOffice Best, Jomar --Mensagem original-- De: Donald Harbison Para: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Responder a: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Assunto: [VOTE] Trademark and Brand Enviada: 10 nov, 2011 01:47 As promised, here's the ballot. Choose one, cast your vote. If none of them get more than 50% of the binding votes, we will start a ballot for the top two contenders. a) Apache OpenOffice.org b) Apache OpenOffice c) Apache Open Office d) Apache Office The ballot is open for a full 7 day week closing 12:00 p.m. EST ( UTC - 5 ) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011.
