translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
Hi, Pablo I remember having similar discussions within our Localisation Program group some time ago. While I tend to agree that dealing with domain names etc. is not of high priority right now, nevertheless we need some principles and guidance. Obviously this is a major issue we need to be looking at. Anyone's free to get domain names but legitimate registration needs some form of approval by the main openEHR board or through its proxies - local openEHR chapters. We will have to find ways to legitimatise current domain names (openEHR.org.eshttp://www.openehr.org.es/, openEHR.jphttp://www.openehr.jp/ and openEHR.org.nzhttp://www.openehr.org.nz/ etc.) when we have the Program going. For those of you not familiar with this initiative: here's the Localisation Program Webpagehttp://openehr.org/programs/localisation/ and the detailed TOR herehttp://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/oecom/Localisation+Program+Terms+of+Reference. Lots of things can be said but at this stage I think, while the enthusiasm is here and given the relaxed period for a month or so, going ahead translating the main website, albeit still pretty draft, would be valuable. I think we should then look at finding a balance between conformance to the main website and local flavour. Of course there will be additional content and that's very valuable; even some with IP restrictions (educational materials or artefacts belonging to national programmes or projects or commercial entities). I strongly think there won't be a one size fits all solution and we'll have to improvise ;) The ultimate measure of success is the value it will bring to local communities and openEHR at large. Even if you're living in an English speaking country I encourage you to start looking at getting organised locally. We can't expect everything from the source but must create capacity and resources in our own communities. Happy new year to all and watch this space J Cheers, -koray From: openEHR-technical [mailto:openehr-technical-boun...@lists.openehr.org] On Behalf Of pablo pazos Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012 1:35 p.m. To: openeh technical Subject: RE: translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein] Hi Thomas, we're on early stages of community creation, diffusion of openEHR and tools building, right now collisions of domain names are not a priority. When the time arrives I think we'll manage :) -- Kind regards, Ing. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez LinkedIn: http://uy.linkedin.com/in/pablopazosgutierrez Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos _ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 13:07:05 + From: thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.commailto:thomas.be...@oceaninformatics.com To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.orgmailto:openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: Re: translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein] On 18/12/2012 11:36, pablo pazos wrote: Hi Thomas, About openEHR.org.es, lets say it's more like a group of interest than an oficial branch of the openEHR.org site translated to spanish. That's what we have right now, but in the future we can find a way to have specific contents generated by us and oficial openEHR contents translated to spanish (and meet the requirements (?) to be an official openEHR community based on a common language instead of a country/region). BTW, openEHR.org.es is for spanish speakers, not a Spain based community. I understand the idea, but what would openEHR Spain do if it wants its own Spanish local website, to do with Spanish locations, legislation, companies etc? It would mean that openEHR.org.es was taken. I don't see any problem right now, but it might be worth just thinking about how domains will be organised in the future... - thomas ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at lists.openehr.orgmailto:openEHR-technical at lists.openehr.org http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7814 (20121218) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 7843 (20121229) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20121230/d32ab8d7/attachment.html
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
Hi Thomas and Gunner, Having translated portal would appeal wider range, especially for beginners. On the other hand, openEHR.jp site has another accountability as the domestic artefacts repository. We can have two sites for their responsibility. 1)http://www.openehr.org/jp/ Translated version of official openEHR.org site. 2) http://www.openehr.jp/ Repository of Japanese artefacts, such as translated documents, presentation/education materials, seminar information. My answer to the questions. 1) The workflow on GitHub seems reasonable for me, but we need to try it to prove that it works. 2) Your suggested URL openehr.org/jp is good for us, Japanese community, but I think redirection openehr.org/jp to openehr.jp is not useful as described before. Localisation has two dimension just you mentioned, language and geographical location. I do not have good idea for Spanish community, but I think it is a common problem for international language community, even in English. There are many English speaking countries, but localisation is necessary, just now Koray is trying. Regards, Shinji 2012/12/18 Thomas Beale thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com Subject: Re: translating the openEHR website - Also a localised content? From: Gunnar Klein, NTNU gunnar.klein at ntnu.no gunnar.klein at ntnu.no Date: 17/12/2012 16:47 To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.orgopenehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Dear Tom and other techies, A wonderful idea with translated content and the general work flow described sounds feasible to me. However, I think it would make sense not to require the various non English language sites to follow exactly the master openEHR. Firstly, because it would make sense to launch some content in several languages before everything is translated, and in several cases I think all the content will never be translated, some of the technical stuff will be better read in original English in some countries. However, the LOCALISED openEHR web pages may also contain material that relates to national work, in particular of course as directly related to openEHR implementations. Documents may be uploaded in various languages with content that it will not always make sense to translate. Regarding the excellent Japanese initiative, I suggest they should be offered to move the content to the main site but with the openEHR.jp as a pointing entry. Such sites may be establsiehed in other countries also but I think they shall generally not have there own content but be pointers to the openEHR.org. Especially where the same language is used in several countries and continents it may be a complicated proliferation which in one sense is welcome. An offer to one person or a small group of 2-3 persons per geographical area to work directly with the openEHR international site makes sense to maintain some control over content of the foundation content. Best regards Gunnar On 17/12/2012 15:29, Thomas Beale wrote: we are trying to work out the best approach to translations of the openEHR website. The mechanism for the website itself is probably straightforward: - for each language xx, we create a copy of the current website under a directory /xx/, and push this to the Github repo that contains the website - or perhaps separate repos, one per language? - the people who want to do the translation work clone the repo, replace the EN text with their language and upload the changes - we push the changes to the main website Most URLs in the website are relative, so this should work. Clearly changes on the main website need to be reflected over time on the other websites, but we can rely on proper commit comments in the Git repo to take care of that. *First question *- does this seem a reasonable workflow to adopt? The *second question *that I can see is: what is the starting URL location? Taking Japan as an example: Shinji's group already has openEHR.jp. Currently it is their own website. However, with a translated form of the international website, would it make sense for openEHR.jp to point to www.openEHR.org/jp? If so, then the translated international website would need a prominent link back to the current openEHR.jp. OR... if they prefer to land on the current openEHR.jp, what URL should get a user to www.openEHR.org/jp - presumably just that. These questions apply to all languages, but not all locations or languages equate to a country. For example, if we made www.openEHR.org/es, I am sure we only want one of those, even though there can technically be some small differences between the Spain / Central South America variants. But there is no openEHR.es and openEHR.org.es (which appears to be taken) would correspond to Spain only. In the end, I think the best we may be able to do is to provide a www.openEHR.org/xx for each language translation, and it will be up to local openEHR.orgs to add links or Apache rewrite
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
On 18/12/2012 02:26, Shinji KOBAYASHI wrote: Hi Thomas and Gunner, Having translated portal would appeal wider range, especially for beginners. On the other hand, openEHR.jp site has another accountability as the domestic artefacts repository. We can have two sites for their responsibility. 1)http://www.openehr.org/jp/ Translated version of official openEHR.org site. 2) http://www.openehr.jp/ Repository of Japanese artefacts, such as translated documents, presentation/education materials, seminar information. My answer to the questions. 1) The workflow on GitHub seems reasonable for me, but we need to try it to prove that it works. 2) Your suggested URL openehr.org/jp http://openehr.org/jp is good for us, Japanese community, but I think redirection openehr.org/jp http://openehr.org/jp to openehr.jp http://openehr.jp is not useful as described before. Localisation has two dimension just you mentioned, language and geographical location. I do not have good idea for Spanish community, but I think it is a common problem for international language community, even in English. There are many English speaking countries, but localisation is necessary, just now Koray is trying. @Shinji: Ok so let's assume we set up each language on the central site as openehr.org/jp etc, and you will be able to use where you like at your end. @Gunnar: I take your points, but not sure what to do about them - i.e. I am not sure what to practically do about the need for a mix of local and central content, other than for local websites / wikis etc to be created as we are doing. I think the main thing we can do now is to keep the central site small, which was a conscious objective from the start. The local needs in different countries will clearly be different, so I think we just have to see how the local web presence in each place develops. @Bert: thanks for the offer. All - we are still working on some content, so the central website is not 'finished' .. but it will never be, there will always be something more to do. So we could start as an experiment just one translation job to see how the workflow works. The main thing we would need to agree on is probably how we document the changes we make on the central site in Git, so that translators can detect what changes have happened that they need to reflect. I think we might be ready to try this experiment in the next week or so (we are still adjusting some mechanical aspects of the site). It sounds like we make the experiment either Japanese or Dutch - who wants to be the guinea pig? (I.e. who has time ;-) - thomas -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20121218/b445750f/attachment.html
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
Hi Thomas, I forked GitHub web-site project. Can I make /jp sub-directory to work under top? Could you please point it out where should be? Japanese translation would appeal capability of translation much, I will try it. Regards, Shinji 2012/12/18 Thomas Beale thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com: accountability
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
Hi Thomas, About openEHR.org.es, lets say it's more like a group of interest than an oficial branch of the openEHR.org site translated to spanish. That's what we have right now, but in the future we can find a way to have specific contents generated by us and oficial openEHR contents translated to spanish (and meet the requirements (?) to be an official openEHR community based on a common language instead of a country/region). BTW, openEHR.org.es is for spanish speakers, not a Spain based community. I'll try to motivate my colleagues to help translate the openEHR.org contents to spanish, and maybe form a small group of translators. -- Kind regards, Ing. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez LinkedIn: http://uy.linkedin.com/in/pablopazosgutierrez Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:16:29 + From: thomas.be...@oceaninformatics.com To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: Re: translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein] Subject: Re: translating the openEHR website - Also a localised content? From: Gunnar Klein, NTNU gunnar.klein at ntnu.no Date: 17/12/2012 16:47 To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Dear Tom and other techies, A wonderful idea with translated content and the general work flow described sounds feasible to me. However, I think it would make sense not to require the various non English language sites to follow exactly the master openEHR. Firstly, because it would make sense to launch some content in several languages before everything is translated, and in several cases I think all the content will never be translated, some of the technical stuff will be better read in original English in some countries. However, the LOCALISED openEHR web pages may also contain material that relates to national work, in particular of course as directly related to openEHR implementations. Documents may be uploaded in various languages with content that it will not always make sense to translate. Regarding the excellent Japanese initiative, I suggest they should be offered to move the content to the main site but with the openEHR.jp as a pointing entry. Such sites may be establsiehed in other countries also but I think they shall generally not have there own content but be pointers to the openEHR.org. Especially where the same language is used in several countries and continents it may be a complicated proliferation which in one sense is welcome. An offer to one person or a small group of 2-3 persons per geographical area to work directly with the openEHR international site makes sense to maintain some control over content of the foundation content. Best regards Gunnar On 17/12/2012 15:29, Thomas Beale wrote: we are trying to work out the best approach to translations of the openEHR website. The mechanism for the website itself is probably straightforward: for each language xx, we create a copy of the current website under a directory /xx/, and push this to the Github repo that contains the website or perhaps separate repos, one per language? the people who want to do the translation work clone the repo, replace the EN text with their language and upload the changes we push the changes to the main website Most URLs in the website are relative, so this should work. Clearly changes on the main website need to be reflected over time on the other websites, but we can rely on proper commit comments in the Git repo to take care of that. First question - does this seem a reasonable workflow to adopt? The second question that I can see is: what is the starting URL location? Taking Japan as an example: Shinji's group already has openEHR.jp. Currently it is their own website. However, with a translated form of the international website, would it make sense for openEHR.jp to point to www.openEHR.org/jp? If so, then the translated international website would need a prominent link back to the current openEHR.jp. OR... if they prefer to land on the current openEHR.jp, what URL should get a user to www.openEHR.org/jp
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
I guess it will also be easy to find a portuguese speaking group for the translations. We are also currently creating a site to promote openEHR in Portugal. It should be ready in the first days on January. Regards, Ricardo Correia --- Ricardo Jo?o Cruz Correia Professor Auxiliar http://www.researcherid.com/rid/A-2756-2009 *CIDES http://goog_1442787366* - http://goog_1442787366Health Information and Decision Sciences http://cides.med.up.pt *CINTESIS* - Center for Research in Health Technologies and Information Systems http://cintesis.med.up.pt Faculty of Medicine, University of Porto Tel: (+351) *220 426 909 / *(+351) *225 513 622,* Fax: +351 *225 513 623* e-mail: *cides*@med.up.pt*,* http://*cides*.med.up.pt Al. Prof. Hern?ni Monteiro*,* 4200-319 Porto, *Portugal* * * * * *Latest papers* 1. Guidelines for the Management of Precancerous Conditions and Lesions in the Stomach (MAPS). *Dinis-Ribeiro M, Areia M, Vries ACd, Marcos-Pinto R, Monteiro-Soares M, ..., Cruz-Correia R, et al. ** **Endoscopy 2012; 44(01): 74-94. DOI: 10.1055/s-0031-1291491* 2. **Unobtrusive Collection and Annotating of Auscultations in Real Hospital Environments. *Pereira D, Hedayioglu F, Cruz-Correia R, ..., Coimbra M* *IEEE EMBC 2011. Boston, USA.* 3. Determinants of frequency and longevity of hospital encounters` data use http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6947/10/15/abstract. *Ricardo Cruz-Correia, Jeremy Wyatt, Mario Dinis-Ribeiro, Altamiro Costa-Pereira* *BMC Medical Informatics and Decision Making 2010, 10:15 (16 March 2010) * On 18 December 2012 11:36, pablo pazos pazospablo at hotmail.com wrote: rs, not a Spain based community. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20121218/343422da/attachment-0001.html
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
On 12/18/2012 10:14 AM, Thomas Beale wrote: @Bert: thanks for the offer. It is a pleasure, I hope it will be technically made easy for me to do it. By the way, next week I am on holiday Bert
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
On 18/12/2012 09:52, Shinji KOBAYASHI wrote: Hi Thomas, I forked GitHub web-site project. Can I make /jp sub-directory to work under top? Could you please point it out where should be? Japanese translation would appeal capability of translation much, I will try it. Shinji, it might be a bit early to do too much work on it, but why not get the workflow right. In Git, you should see the following structure: We will create a 'lang' directory at the top level. *You should therefore create a 'lang/jp' directory*. Don't worry about the 'lang' appearing in URLs, we can deal with that in the Apache rewrite rules. I think if you just try to translate some of the content on the home page, and some of the stable-looking pages one level down - don't go too much further because there are still major changes going on in some directories. I'll get Adriana to create a list of what appears to be stable and what is not. If you do a bit of work, and push it back to your fork, we'll then get it pushed into the main repo (I still have to work out exactly how we do this in Github ;-). We'll then upload it, create an Apache rewrite rule that does: /lang/([a-za-z])/(.*) - /$1/$2 which will have the effect of making the physical directory www.openehr.org/lang/jp/something be served as www.openehr.org/jp/something, which I think is a bit more normal. Let's just try this in Japanese, then I suggest the next step is for us to provide a list of paths we think are stable enough to translate - then some other languages can get started. - thomas -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20121218/d6017058/attachment-0001.html -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jfjdecgh.png Type: image/png Size: 5888 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20121218/d6017058/attachment-0001.png
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
On 18/12/2012 12:46, Bert Verhees wrote: On 12/18/2012 10:14 AM, Thomas Beale wrote: @Bert: thanks for the offer. Shinji can be the first one to take the pain, hopefully we'll have it worked out for you in a week's time. Ok, more than a week's time. Some warm wine drinking may slow things down... - thomas
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
[Gunnar - your posts are bouncing - think your subscription is under an old .se address - do you want to check http://www-test.openehr.org/community/mailinglists? (see how easy it is to find everything now ;-)] Subject: Re: translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein] From: Gunnar Klein gunnar.klein at gmail.com Date: 18/12/2012 10:20 To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Dear Thomas, I volunteer to make a Swedish version. If other Swedish language natives want to join me please write to me. It would probably be a good idea if you write some general instructions for the editors of the localization web pages. Kind regards Gunnar On 18.12.2012 10:52, Shinji KOBAYASHI wrote: Hi Thomas, I forked GitHub web-site project. Can I make /jp sub-directory to work under top? Could you please point it out where should be? Japanese translation would appeal capability of translation much, I will try it. Regards, Shinji 2012/12/18 Thomas Beale thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com: accountability ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at lists.openehr.org http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20121218/2a3c2f62/attachment.html
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
Hi Thomas, we're on early stages of community creation, diffusion of openEHR and tools building, right now collisions of domain names are not a priority. When the time arrives I think we'll manage :) -- Kind regards, Ing. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez LinkedIn: http://uy.linkedin.com/in/pablopazosgutierrez Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 13:07:05 + From: thomas.be...@oceaninformatics.com To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: Re: translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein] On 18/12/2012 11:36, pablo pazos wrote: Hi Thomas, About openEHR.org.es, lets say it's more like a group of interest than an oficial branch of the openEHR.org site translated to spanish. That's what we have right now, but in the future we can find a way to have specific contents generated by us and oficial openEHR contents translated to spanish (and meet the requirements (?) to be an official openEHR community based on a common language instead of a country/region). BTW, openEHR.org.es is for spanish speakers, not a Spain based community. I understand the idea, but what would openEHR Spain do if it wants its own Spanish local website, to do with Spanish locations, legislation, companies etc? It would mean that openEHR.org.es was taken. I don't see any problem right now, but it might be worth just thinking about how domains will be organised in the future... - thomas ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at lists.openehr.org http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20121218/9141fbbd/attachment.html
translating the openEHR website [From Gunnar Klein]
If needed, I can start to work now and then on a Dutch translation. In my profession it is sometimes good to think about something else, sometimes, and translation-work is one of the right things to do. I would do it in my own tempo. In my case, I would follow exactly the master OpenEHR, I wouldn't want to take responsibility for changes on my own behalf. OK, that is my offer, I guess I will be noticed if I can add some useful contributions. Just for fun or the same reason, I wrote a page in Wikipedia in Dutch about OpenEHR, now exactly a year ago. Main reason, however, was not fun, but to get some Dutch marketing done, without Wikipedia-page something is not really important in the Netherlands. http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenEHR I had quite some problems getting it accepted, the jury thought it was too technical, it took a lot of arguing. Once someone rejects a page, others don't bother to interfere, because they respect each other decisions without wanting to know details. Anyway, I got it through, after quite some flattering. :) I also wrote one about archetypes, but that was rejected by the same person, and I never succeeded to return it. And making too much noise could cause this OpenEHR page to be rejected again. regards Bert Verhees On 12/17/2012 06:16 PM, Thomas Beale wrote: Subject: Re: translating the openEHR website - Also a localised content? From: Gunnar Klein, NTNU gunnar.klein at ntnu.no Date: 17/12/2012 16:47 To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Dear Tom and other techies, A wonderful idea with translated content and the general work flow described sounds feasible to me. However, I think it would make sense not to require the various non English language sites to follow exactly the master openEHR. Firstly, because it would make sense to launch some content in several languages before everything is translated, and in several cases I think all the content will never be translated, some of the technical stuff will be better read in original English in some countries. However, the LOCALISED openEHR web pages may also contain material that relates to national work, in particular of course as directly related to openEHR implementations. Documents may be uploaded in various languages with content that it will not always make sense to translate. Regarding the excellent Japanese initiative, I suggest they should be offered to move the content to the main site but with the openEHR.jp as a pointing entry. Such sites may be establsiehed in other countries also but I think they shall generally not have there own content but be pointers to the openEHR.org. Especially where the same language is used in several countries and continents it may be a complicated proliferation which in one sense is welcome. An offer to one person or a small group of 2-3 persons per geographical area to work directly with the openEHR international site makes sense to maintain some control over content of the foundation content. Best regards Gunnar On 17/12/2012 15:29, Thomas Beale wrote: we are trying to work out the best approach to translations of the openEHR website. The mechanism for the website itself is probably straightforward: * for each language xx, we create a copy of the current website under a directory /xx/, and push this to the Github repo that contains the website o or perhaps separate repos, one per language? * the people who want to do the translation work clone the repo, replace the EN text with their language and upload the changes * we push the changes to the main website Most URLs in the website are relative, so this should work. Clearly changes on the main website need to be reflected over time on the other websites, but we can rely on proper commit comments in the Git repo to take care of that. *First question *- does this seem a reasonable workflow to adopt? The *second question *that I can see is: what is the starting URL location? Taking Japan as an example: Shinji's group already has openEHR.jp. Currently it is their own website. However, with a translated form of the international website, would it make sense for openEHR.jp to point to www.openEHR.org/jp? If so, then the translated international website would need a prominent link back to the current openEHR.jp. OR... if they prefer to land on the current openEHR.jp, what URL should get a user to www.openEHR.org/jp - presumably just that. These questions apply to all languages, but not all locations or languages equate to a country. For example, if we made www.openEHR.org/es, I am sure we only want one of those, even though there can technically be some small differences between the Spain / Central South America variants. But there is no openEHR.es and openEHR.org.es (which appears to be taken) would correspond to Spain only. In the end, I think the best we may be able to do
