Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
I would rather see an android and ios project cross platform that's compelling enough by oracle with a fancy scene builder based impressive GUI and datafx mongodb backend Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 10, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: > > I wish Oracle would try to build an ecosystem around Java Client. If Sun had > done this, they could be Android right now. There might have been a few > dollars in that. There might still be. > > If Oracle isn't trying to build an ecosystem around Java Client, and it's > just a hobby, I wish somebody would tell me. :-) > > jeff > > >> On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:53 AM, David Hill wrote: >> >>> On 7/10/14, 10:40 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: >>> That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. >> To be fair - both of those guys are trying to build an ecosystem - not just >> an OS, but an OS and tools and products layered on top of it. They want to >> create an environment that you want to come to and spend $$$. >> >> Oracle's bottom line is about Big Data and the appware in the middle of it. >> That middle ware uses several technologies for graphical display and JavaFX >> is just one of them. Unless you are a middle ware customer, you probably >> have not seen any of them, because unlike MS Word, or Apple ITunes, they are >> not usually seen by the general public. >> >> It certainly would be nice to have more JavaFX applications (real apps or >> even good demos) as it would help showcase the capabilities. Jasper has >> whipped together some interesting demo apps over the years for JavaOne >> >> Any suggestions on good demo apps for small boards (Pi, i.MX6) ? (Existing >> or otherwise). >> >> Dave >>> >>> jeff >>> >>> On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:32 AM, "Fabrizio Giudici" wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0200, Jeff Martin > wrote: > > I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few > real world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and Corporates should only do what concerns their business and AFAIK Oracle's business was not to create real world apps (I mean, with the exception of IDEs or other apps for the management of Oracle apps). A technology owner, usually, when tries to create a real world app only creates a demonstrator of a real world app, which doesn't have any success. -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. "We make Java work. Everywhere." http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it >> >> >> -- >> David Hill >> Java Embedded Development >> >> "A man's feet should be planted in his country, but his eyes should survey >> the world." >> -- George Santayana (1863 - 1952) >
RE: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
Interesting. This is why Tom Schindl and I feel the SWT port to JavaFX is so important. It would be hard for a Swing app to migrate, but if we can get a good SWT port working, we could bring the entire Eclipse plug-in collection over, including the IDE. And then people could easily switch their plug-ins over to pure JavaFX as they see the benefit. The only thing missing is a community to help build that. But hopefully the JavaFX community will see how important this is. And this thread shows we recognize the issue at least, i.e., need real exemplary desktop apps to prove the framework. Doug. From: openjfx-dev [openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] on behalf of Chris Nahr [chris.n...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 3:39 AM To: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Subject: Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX? I asked Geertjan Wielenga about a possible JavaFX rewrite of NetBeans back in March, and he said that although they'll keep pulling in JavaFX features such as WebView on a case-by-case basis, a total rewrite is not going to happen. So the IDE is going to remain Swing-based. Link to the Twitter conversation: https://twitter.com/ChrisNahr/status/441259645949464576 PS: I already sent this reply from another email address (not the one that's subscribed to this list) but that was two days ago and it's apparently been lost in moderation. Apologies if it appears twice.
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
I absolutly agree. I don’t love Objective-C and Cocoa-APIs. But I have the feeling that „it must be a great technology/API“ if there are so many good applications like Apple Pages, iTunes, …. which all are using Cocoa. That’s missing with JavaFX. The last years it was funny to see cool demos. But now it’s time to mature! We need real JFX software and mobile apps. But that’s we have discussed over and over again like the mobile thing. But Oracle has other plans. JFX seams to be a technology for only specific markets like IOT and embedded software like in printers, TV, etc. Best, Tobi > Am 11.07.2014 um 10:38 schrieb Robert Krüger : > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 4:53 PM, David Hill wrote: >> On 7/10/14, 10:40 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: >>> >>> That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. >> >> To be fair - both of those guys are trying to build an ecosystem - not just >> an OS, but an OS and tools and products layered on top of it. They want to >> create an environment that you want to come to and spend $$$. >> >> Oracle's bottom line is about Big Data and the appware in the middle of it. >> That middle ware uses several technologies for graphical display and JavaFX >> is just one of them. Unless you are a middle ware customer, you probably >> have not seen any of them, because unlike MS Word, or Apple ITunes, they are >> not usually seen by the general public. >> >> It certainly would be nice to have more JavaFX applications (real apps or >> even good demos) as it would help showcase the capabilities. Jasper has >> whipped together some interesting demo apps over the years for JavaOne >> >> Any suggestions on good demo apps for small boards (Pi, i.MX6) ? (Existing >> or otherwise). > > No offence but it is exactly those apps that I am not talking about > because while they may help to demonstrate how to do things to a > beginner, they do not contribute to the platform becoming mature and I > have yet to see one that really impresses me when compared to examples > of uses of other state-of-the-art software. Having the next 2-1/2D > Raspberry mini game certainly won't convince many people, who make the > decision which technology their company will embrace for their next > product, that JFX is a stat-of-the-art platform just as Jasper's 3D > examples won't. Honestly, I _want_ to move to JavaFX and I am trying > to convince my business partners to consider that and I asked them to > look at what's available on the web and most of what you find is those > demos. The reaction was really something like "technology looks OK but > they cannot be serious about making the case with those demos when > developers are used to the respective resources by Apple (iOS, OSX) or > Google (Android)" and quality problems worrying them, which currently > is my main concern as well (stuff like RT-37533, RT-37501, RT-37372, > which I ran into not while porting a complex application to JavaFX but > in just three days of building mini sample applications that use UI > features that we currently use in our Swing app). > > My point is that acceptance of JavaFX by more companies making quality > products they make a living on, is vital for JFX, if it is not > supposed to remain a niche or academic technology which it currently > most likely is (while it absolutely has the potential for more). > Netbeans being a huge product and Swing being a legacy technology not > being an option for another 10 years I just thought, I'd ask if that > one in-house product would become a flagship real-world "demo".
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 4:53 PM, David Hill wrote: > On 7/10/14, 10:40 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: >> >> That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. > > To be fair - both of those guys are trying to build an ecosystem - not just > an OS, but an OS and tools and products layered on top of it. They want to > create an environment that you want to come to and spend $$$. > > Oracle's bottom line is about Big Data and the appware in the middle of it. > That middle ware uses several technologies for graphical display and JavaFX > is just one of them. Unless you are a middle ware customer, you probably > have not seen any of them, because unlike MS Word, or Apple ITunes, they are > not usually seen by the general public. > > It certainly would be nice to have more JavaFX applications (real apps or > even good demos) as it would help showcase the capabilities. Jasper has > whipped together some interesting demo apps over the years for JavaOne > > Any suggestions on good demo apps for small boards (Pi, i.MX6) ? (Existing > or otherwise). No offence but it is exactly those apps that I am not talking about because while they may help to demonstrate how to do things to a beginner, they do not contribute to the platform becoming mature and I have yet to see one that really impresses me when compared to examples of uses of other state-of-the-art software. Having the next 2-1/2D Raspberry mini game certainly won't convince many people, who make the decision which technology their company will embrace for their next product, that JFX is a stat-of-the-art platform just as Jasper's 3D examples won't. Honestly, I _want_ to move to JavaFX and I am trying to convince my business partners to consider that and I asked them to look at what's available on the web and most of what you find is those demos. The reaction was really something like "technology looks OK but they cannot be serious about making the case with those demos when developers are used to the respective resources by Apple (iOS, OSX) or Google (Android)" and quality problems worrying them, which currently is my main concern as well (stuff like RT-37533, RT-37501, RT-37372, which I ran into not while porting a complex application to JavaFX but in just three days of building mini sample applications that use UI features that we currently use in our Swing app). My point is that acceptance of JavaFX by more companies making quality products they make a living on, is vital for JFX, if it is not supposed to remain a niche or academic technology which it currently most likely is (while it absolutely has the potential for more). Netbeans being a huge product and Swing being a legacy technology not being an option for another 10 years I just thought, I'd ask if that one in-house product would become a flagship real-world "demo".
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
I asked Geertjan Wielenga about a possible JavaFX rewrite of NetBeans back in March, and he said that although they'll keep pulling in JavaFX features such as WebView on a case-by-case basis, a total rewrite is not going to happen. So the IDE is going to remain Swing-based. Link to the Twitter conversation: https://twitter.com/ChrisNahr/status/441259645949464576 PS: I already sent this reply from another email address (not the one that's subscribed to this list) but that was two days ago and it's apparently been lost in moderation. Apologies if it appears twice.
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
Apologies for the self-promotion but I've built a pretty complex open source project using JavaFX and found it to be a very usable technology. Light years ahead of Swing and more powerful than SWT; much easier layout (VBox/HBox), builder pattern, styling (CSS etc.) and deployment (part of JRE). The project is a HotSpot LogCompilation analyser called JITWatch (an AdoptOpenJDK project) and it uses a range of JavaFX controls and features (TreeViews, SplitPanes, Canvas, etc.) There are some screenshots at the end of the wiki at https://github.com/AdoptOpenJDK/jitwatch/wiki I wouldn't go back to SWT now I'm up to speed with JavaFX and would definitely use it commercially. Cheers, Chris @chriswhocodes On Thu, July 10, 2014 15:53, David Hill wrote: > It certainly would be nice to have more JavaFX applications (real apps or > even good demos) as it would help showcase the capabilities. Jasper has > whipped together some interesting demo apps over the years for JavaOne > > Any suggestions on good demo apps for small boards (Pi, i.MX6) ? > (Existing or otherwise). > > > Dave >
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
I wish Oracle would try to build an ecosystem around Java Client. If Sun had done this, they could be Android right now. There might have been a few dollars in that. There might still be. If Oracle isn't trying to build an ecosystem around Java Client, and it's just a hobby, I wish somebody would tell me. :-) jeff On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:53 AM, David Hill wrote: > On 7/10/14, 10:40 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: >> That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. > To be fair - both of those guys are trying to build an ecosystem - not just > an OS, but an OS and tools and products layered on top of it. They want to > create an environment that you want to come to and spend $$$. > > Oracle's bottom line is about Big Data and the appware in the middle of it. > That middle ware uses several technologies for graphical display and JavaFX > is just one of them. Unless you are a middle ware customer, you probably have > not seen any of them, because unlike MS Word, or Apple ITunes, they are not > usually seen by the general public. > > It certainly would be nice to have more JavaFX applications (real apps or > even good demos) as it would help showcase the capabilities. Jasper has > whipped together some interesting demo apps over the years for JavaOne > > Any suggestions on good demo apps for small boards (Pi, i.MX6) ? (Existing or > otherwise). > > Dave >> >> jeff >> >> >> On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:32 AM, "Fabrizio >> Giudici" wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0200, Jeff Martin wrote: >>> I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few real world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and >>> Corporates should only do what concerns their business and AFAIK Oracle's >>> business was not to create real world apps (I mean, with the exception of >>> IDEs or other apps for the management of Oracle apps). A technology owner, >>> usually, when tries to create a real world app only creates a demonstrator >>> of a real world app, which doesn't have any success. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. >>> "We make Java work. Everywhere." >>> http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it > > > -- > David Hill > Java Embedded Development > > "A man's feet should be planted in his country, but his eyes should survey > the world." > -- George Santayana (1863 - 1952) >
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
Scene Builder is a *real world* (and very useful) JavaFX app produced by Oracle. It's also open source. Cheers, Mo On 10 Jul 2014, at 07:53, David Hill wrote: > On 7/10/14, 10:40 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: >> That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. > To be fair - both of those guys are trying to build an ecosystem - not just > an OS, but an OS and tools and products layered on top of it. They want to > create an environment that you want to come to and spend $$$. > > Oracle's bottom line is about Big Data and the appware in the middle of it. > That middle ware uses several technologies for graphical display and JavaFX > is just one of them. Unless you are a middle ware customer, you probably have > not seen any of them, because unlike MS Word, or Apple ITunes, they are not > usually seen by the general public. > > It certainly would be nice to have more JavaFX applications (real apps or > even good demos) as it would help showcase the capabilities. Jasper has > whipped together some interesting demo apps over the years for JavaOne > > Any suggestions on good demo apps for small boards (Pi, i.MX6) ? (Existing or > otherwise). > > Dave >> >> jeff >> >> >> On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:32 AM, "Fabrizio >> Giudici" wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0200, Jeff Martin wrote: >>> I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few real world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and >>> Corporates should only do what concerns their business and AFAIK Oracle's >>> business was not to create real world apps (I mean, with the exception of >>> IDEs or other apps for the management of Oracle apps). A technology owner, >>> usually, when tries to create a real world app only creates a demonstrator >>> of a real world app, which doesn't have any success. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. >>> "We make Java work. Everywhere." >>> http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it > > > -- > David Hill > Java Embedded Development > > "A man's feet should be planted in his country, but his eyes should survey > the world." > -- George Santayana (1863 - 1952)
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
On 7/10/14, 10:40 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. To be fair - both of those guys are trying to build an ecosystem - not just an OS, but an OS and tools and products layered on top of it. They want to create an environment that you want to come to and spend $$$. Oracle's bottom line is about Big Data and the appware in the middle of it. That middle ware uses several technologies for graphical display and JavaFX is just one of them. Unless you are a middle ware customer, you probably have not seen any of them, because unlike MS Word, or Apple ITunes, they are not usually seen by the general public. It certainly would be nice to have more JavaFX applications (real apps or even good demos) as it would help showcase the capabilities. Jasper has whipped together some interesting demo apps over the years for JavaOne Any suggestions on good demo apps for small boards (Pi, i.MX6) ? (Existing or otherwise). Dave jeff On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:32 AM, "Fabrizio Giudici" wrote: On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0200, Jeff Martin wrote: I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few real world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and Corporates should only do what concerns their business and AFAIK Oracle's business was not to create real world apps (I mean, with the exception of IDEs or other apps for the management of Oracle apps). A technology owner, usually, when tries to create a real world app only creates a demonstrator of a real world app, which doesn't have any success. -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. "We make Java work. Everywhere." http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it -- David Hill Java Embedded Development "A man's feet should be planted in his country, but his eyes should survey the world." -- George Santayana (1863 - 1952)
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:42:31 +0200, Doug Schaefer wrote: Fair enough, but neither of them built an IDE using Java that would benefit from JavaFX at the moment. In ant case Microsoft and Apple business is to also to produce applications - they have quite an experience in targeting end-users (Microsoft jokes apart). Oracle doesn't. This doesn't mean that they couldn't. But should they do that, it should be a business decision, which means also to update their business plans, not just a way to push their technology. -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. "We make Java work. Everywhere." http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
RE: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
Fair enough, but neither of them built an IDE using Java that would benefit from JavaFX at the moment. :D From: openjfx-dev [openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] on behalf of Jeff Martin [j...@reportmill.com] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 10:40 AM To: Fabrizio Giudici Cc: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Subject: Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX? That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. jeff On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:32 AM, "Fabrizio Giudici" wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0200, Jeff Martin wrote: > >> I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few real >> world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and > > Corporates should only do what concerns their business and AFAIK Oracle's > business was not to create real world apps (I mean, with the exception of > IDEs or other apps for the management of Oracle apps). A technology owner, > usually, when tries to create a real world app only creates a demonstrator of > a real world app, which doesn't have any success. > > > -- > Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. > "We make Java work. Everywhere." > http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
That's not what Bill Gates or Steve Jobs said. jeff On Jul 10, 2014, at 9:32 AM, "Fabrizio Giudici" wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0200, Jeff Martin wrote: > >> I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few real >> world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and > > Corporates should only do what concerns their business and AFAIK Oracle's > business was not to create real world apps (I mean, with the exception of > IDEs or other apps for the management of Oracle apps). A technology owner, > usually, when tries to create a real world app only creates a demonstrator of > a real world app, which doesn't have any success. > > > -- > Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. > "We make Java work. Everywhere." > http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
RE: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
I think from the Eclipse side, it probably makes more sense to start using
FXCanvas more. I've already started that with editors that use the WebView.
I'll throw my hat into the ring of rewriting the IDEs from scratch would be
very difficult to do where we are today. Back when we used to make a lot of
money selling IDEs, yeah. But now we need to take a more evolutionary approach
as much as I know IDEs would benefit from JavaFX today.
Doug.
From: openjfx-dev [openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] on behalf of Tom
Schindl [tom.schi...@bestsolution.at]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:07 AM
To: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net
Subject: Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
Hi,
I've thrown Eclipse at it [1] - performance is ok but certainly not
better than pure SWT but the reason for that is maybe my custom SWT port.
What you see is not a rewrite of Eclipse code itself (which is 99%
unmodified) but an alternate SWT implementation which has the big
draw-back that some part of the IDE (and I assume the same is true for
some parts of Netbeans) are written with a direct mode toolkit in mind.
For modulare application frameworks I currently know of:
* e(fx)clipse - which leverages the Eclipse4 Platform
* eFX - which leverages the Netbeans Platform
* JacpFX - IIRC built solely above OSGi Felix
* jrebirth
IMHO doing a simple rewrite is not the right way - start with one of the
platforms (Eclipse/Netbeans/IntelliJ) and rethink the IDE. What I mean
is: Doing a rewrite simply for the sake of rewriting is wasted time and
in case of rewriting Netbeans/Eclipse/IntelliJ/... it's a huge huge huge
waste of time.
Tom
[1]
http://tomsondev.bestsolution.at/2014/03/26/eclipse-on-javafx-a-short-video-and-next-steps/
On 10.07.14 09:06, Robert Krüger wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Jeff Martin wrote:
>> My thought is that JavaFX is perfect for an IDE targeted to education, like
>> Greenfoot and BlueJ:
>>
>> SnapCode: SnapCode is the first and only pure JavaFX IDE
>> YouTube Overview: SnapCode JavaFX Overview
>>
>> SnapCode has visual code editing ("Snap-coding"), a sprite kit,
>> graphics/sound editing, a runtime browser/player with animated transitions
>> and more. It also has most of the features you expect in a modern IDE.
>> Hopefully this is a great way to attract a new generation of developers and
>> bring JavaFX to all Java developers.
>>
>> What it doesn't have is very much in the way of resources. If anyone wants
>> to help, let me know. If Oracle would like to kick in an engineer or a few
>> dollars, I wouldn't turn that away either.
>>
>> We need something like a "JavaFX Playground" before Apple Swift-boat's us.
>> :-)
>
> I have to say I passionately disagree here. Of course, everyone has
> different requirements/expectations. I am currently looking at JavaFX
> as a candidate technology for commercial products in a market where
> people are used to native applications. So far, I think JavaFX, from a
> developer point of view, is great and the dedication of the dev team
> and the transparency of the dev process are outstanding but it still
> suffers from maturity problems that usually go away after a lot of
> serious applications have been thrown at it, not by another Ensemble
> or educational tool. Even big finance or medical or system management
> applications may not be a good enough test for some areas because
> their users are typically more forgiving in certain areas than e.g. a
> photographer or designer using their favourite photo organisation tool
> on a Mac but of course, every application helps and Netbeans is so
> huge that porting it would probably result in a number of new Jira
> issues making the platform better and, as I wrote, I thought with the
> Swing API no longer being developed, it would either have to die or be
> ported anyway.
>
> BTW, is there any directory of (commercial) JFX applications anyone is aware
> of?
>
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 16:23:43 +0200, Jeff Martin wrote: I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few real world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and Corporates should only do what concerns their business and AFAIK Oracle's business was not to create real world apps (I mean, with the exception of IDEs or other apps for the management of Oracle apps). A technology owner, usually, when tries to create a real world app only creates a demonstrator of a real world app, which doesn't have any success. -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. "We make Java work. Everywhere." http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
I agree that Oracle should have an in-house apps team to create a few real
world apps. Sun's lack of this helped marginalize Java Client and kept them
tone-def to problems with desktop development and deployment. Apple does this
well: Keynote, Pages, Numbers, Safari, Mail, iBooks, iMovie, iPhoto, Calendar,
Contacts, Messages, FaceTime. This "eat your own dog food" policy proves and
improves the platform. Also, it looks suspicious when you push a product you
don't use.
I also agree that porting NetBeans wouldn't be a great use of resources. I hear
that Oracle doesn't even officially support JavaFX on mobile yet. ;-)
jeff
On Jul 10, 2014, at 3:07 AM, Tom Schindl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've thrown Eclipse at it [1] - performance is ok but certainly not
> better than pure SWT but the reason for that is maybe my custom SWT port.
>
> What you see is not a rewrite of Eclipse code itself (which is 99%
> unmodified) but an alternate SWT implementation which has the big
> draw-back that some part of the IDE (and I assume the same is true for
> some parts of Netbeans) are written with a direct mode toolkit in mind.
>
> For modulare application frameworks I currently know of:
> * e(fx)clipse - which leverages the Eclipse4 Platform
> * eFX - which leverages the Netbeans Platform
> * JacpFX - IIRC built solely above OSGi Felix
> * jrebirth
>
> IMHO doing a simple rewrite is not the right way - start with one of the
> platforms (Eclipse/Netbeans/IntelliJ) and rethink the IDE. What I mean
> is: Doing a rewrite simply for the sake of rewriting is wasted time and
> in case of rewriting Netbeans/Eclipse/IntelliJ/... it's a huge huge huge
> waste of time.
>
> Tom
>
> [1]
> http://tomsondev.bestsolution.at/2014/03/26/eclipse-on-javafx-a-short-video-and-next-steps/
>
> On 10.07.14 09:06, Robert Krüger wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Jeff Martin wrote:
>>> My thought is that JavaFX is perfect for an IDE targeted to education, like
>>> Greenfoot and BlueJ:
>>>
>>>SnapCode: SnapCode is the first and only pure JavaFX IDE
>>>YouTube Overview: SnapCode JavaFX Overview
>>>
>>> SnapCode has visual code editing ("Snap-coding"), a sprite kit,
>>> graphics/sound editing, a runtime browser/player with animated transitions
>>> and more. It also has most of the features you expect in a modern IDE.
>>> Hopefully this is a great way to attract a new generation of developers and
>>> bring JavaFX to all Java developers.
>>>
>>> What it doesn't have is very much in the way of resources. If anyone wants
>>> to help, let me know. If Oracle would like to kick in an engineer or a few
>>> dollars, I wouldn't turn that away either.
>>>
>>> We need something like a "JavaFX Playground" before Apple Swift-boat's us.
>>> :-)
>>
>> I have to say I passionately disagree here. Of course, everyone has
>> different requirements/expectations. I am currently looking at JavaFX
>> as a candidate technology for commercial products in a market where
>> people are used to native applications. So far, I think JavaFX, from a
>> developer point of view, is great and the dedication of the dev team
>> and the transparency of the dev process are outstanding but it still
>> suffers from maturity problems that usually go away after a lot of
>> serious applications have been thrown at it, not by another Ensemble
>> or educational tool. Even big finance or medical or system management
>> applications may not be a good enough test for some areas because
>> their users are typically more forgiving in certain areas than e.g. a
>> photographer or designer using their favourite photo organisation tool
>> on a Mac but of course, every application helps and Netbeans is so
>> huge that porting it would probably result in a number of new Jira
>> issues making the platform better and, as I wrote, I thought with the
>> Swing API no longer being developed, it would either have to die or be
>> ported anyway.
>>
>> BTW, is there any directory of (commercial) JFX applications anyone is aware
>> of?
>>
>
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
Hi,
I've thrown Eclipse at it [1] - performance is ok but certainly not
better than pure SWT but the reason for that is maybe my custom SWT port.
What you see is not a rewrite of Eclipse code itself (which is 99%
unmodified) but an alternate SWT implementation which has the big
draw-back that some part of the IDE (and I assume the same is true for
some parts of Netbeans) are written with a direct mode toolkit in mind.
For modulare application frameworks I currently know of:
* e(fx)clipse - which leverages the Eclipse4 Platform
* eFX - which leverages the Netbeans Platform
* JacpFX - IIRC built solely above OSGi Felix
* jrebirth
IMHO doing a simple rewrite is not the right way - start with one of the
platforms (Eclipse/Netbeans/IntelliJ) and rethink the IDE. What I mean
is: Doing a rewrite simply for the sake of rewriting is wasted time and
in case of rewriting Netbeans/Eclipse/IntelliJ/... it's a huge huge huge
waste of time.
Tom
[1]
http://tomsondev.bestsolution.at/2014/03/26/eclipse-on-javafx-a-short-video-and-next-steps/
On 10.07.14 09:06, Robert Krüger wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Jeff Martin wrote:
>> My thought is that JavaFX is perfect for an IDE targeted to education, like
>> Greenfoot and BlueJ:
>>
>> SnapCode: SnapCode is the first and only pure JavaFX IDE
>> YouTube Overview: SnapCode JavaFX Overview
>>
>> SnapCode has visual code editing ("Snap-coding"), a sprite kit,
>> graphics/sound editing, a runtime browser/player with animated transitions
>> and more. It also has most of the features you expect in a modern IDE.
>> Hopefully this is a great way to attract a new generation of developers and
>> bring JavaFX to all Java developers.
>>
>> What it doesn't have is very much in the way of resources. If anyone wants
>> to help, let me know. If Oracle would like to kick in an engineer or a few
>> dollars, I wouldn't turn that away either.
>>
>> We need something like a "JavaFX Playground" before Apple Swift-boat's us.
>> :-)
>
> I have to say I passionately disagree here. Of course, everyone has
> different requirements/expectations. I am currently looking at JavaFX
> as a candidate technology for commercial products in a market where
> people are used to native applications. So far, I think JavaFX, from a
> developer point of view, is great and the dedication of the dev team
> and the transparency of the dev process are outstanding but it still
> suffers from maturity problems that usually go away after a lot of
> serious applications have been thrown at it, not by another Ensemble
> or educational tool. Even big finance or medical or system management
> applications may not be a good enough test for some areas because
> their users are typically more forgiving in certain areas than e.g. a
> photographer or designer using their favourite photo organisation tool
> on a Mac but of course, every application helps and Netbeans is so
> huge that porting it would probably result in a number of new Jira
> issues making the platform better and, as I wrote, I thought with the
> Swing API no longer being developed, it would either have to die or be
> ported anyway.
>
> BTW, is there any directory of (commercial) JFX applications anyone is aware
> of?
>
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Jeff Martin wrote:
> My thought is that JavaFX is perfect for an IDE targeted to education, like
> Greenfoot and BlueJ:
>
> SnapCode: SnapCode is the first and only pure JavaFX IDE
> YouTube Overview: SnapCode JavaFX Overview
>
> SnapCode has visual code editing ("Snap-coding"), a sprite kit,
> graphics/sound editing, a runtime browser/player with animated transitions
> and more. It also has most of the features you expect in a modern IDE.
> Hopefully this is a great way to attract a new generation of developers and
> bring JavaFX to all Java developers.
>
> What it doesn't have is very much in the way of resources. If anyone wants to
> help, let me know. If Oracle would like to kick in an engineer or a few
> dollars, I wouldn't turn that away either.
>
> We need something like a "JavaFX Playground" before Apple Swift-boat's us. :-)
I have to say I passionately disagree here. Of course, everyone has
different requirements/expectations. I am currently looking at JavaFX
as a candidate technology for commercial products in a market where
people are used to native applications. So far, I think JavaFX, from a
developer point of view, is great and the dedication of the dev team
and the transparency of the dev process are outstanding but it still
suffers from maturity problems that usually go away after a lot of
serious applications have been thrown at it, not by another Ensemble
or educational tool. Even big finance or medical or system management
applications may not be a good enough test for some areas because
their users are typically more forgiving in certain areas than e.g. a
photographer or designer using their favourite photo organisation tool
on a Mac but of course, every application helps and Netbeans is so
huge that porting it would probably result in a number of new Jira
issues making the platform better and, as I wrote, I thought with the
Swing API no longer being developed, it would either have to die or be
ported anyway.
BTW, is there any directory of (commercial) JFX applications anyone is aware of?
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
If you you are looking for modular application frameworks based on NetBeans Platform... bitbucket.org/sreimers/eFX or mfx.java.net -Sven Am 09.07.2014 23:32 schrieb "Danno Ferrin" : > > On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:14 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: > > > We need something like a "JavaFX Playground" > > Something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2DJb58at10 > > Looks like Carl will also be presenting this at JavaOne this year. > > —Danno
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:14 AM, Jeff Martin wrote: > We need something like a "JavaFX Playground" Something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2DJb58at10 Looks like Carl will also be presenting this at JavaOne this year. —Danno
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
My thought is that JavaFX is perfect for an IDE targeted to education, like
Greenfoot and BlueJ:
SnapCode: SnapCode is the first and only pure JavaFX IDE
YouTube Overview: SnapCode JavaFX Overview
SnapCode has visual code editing ("Snap-coding"), a sprite kit, graphics/sound
editing, a runtime browser/player with animated transitions and more. It also
has most of the features you expect in a modern IDE. Hopefully this is a great
way to attract a new generation of developers and bring JavaFX to all Java
developers.
What it doesn't have is very much in the way of resources. If anyone wants to
help, let me know. If Oracle would like to kick in an engineer or a few
dollars, I wouldn't turn that away either.
We need something like a "JavaFX Playground" before Apple Swift-boat's us. :-)
jeff
On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:29 AM, Michael Berry wrote:
> It would be nice in a utopian sense - though I'd have to question if it
> would really be worth the resources required?
>
> Personally I'd be much more in favour of further development of JavaFX
> itself...
>
> Michael
>
>
> On 9 July 2014 10:52, Tobias Bley wrote:
>
>> very interesting question ;)
>>
>> Will there be a android and iOS version of Netbeans in the future ;)?
>>
>>
>>> Am 09.07.2014 um 11:40 schrieb Robert Krüger :
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> it is a little off-topic but the people reading this list are most
>>> likely the ones who could answer this.
>>>
>>> Is a port of Netbeans to JFX planned or even ongoing? It would
>>> certainly be a huge project but I am asking myself, if there is a way
>>> around that with Swing being de-facto legacy if Netbeans isn't dropped
>>> as a whole. It would certainly demonstrate Oracle's commitment to JFX
>>> as the future for Desktop UIs and would surely help the maturity of
>>> JFX which IMHO needs tons of real-world apps to be thrown at it.
>>>
>>> I would not be surprised not to get an answer for all sorts of
>>> understandable reasons but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Robert
>>
>>
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
It would be nice in a utopian sense - though I'd have to question if it would really be worth the resources required? Personally I'd be much more in favour of further development of JavaFX itself... Michael On 9 July 2014 10:52, Tobias Bley wrote: > very interesting question ;) > > Will there be a android and iOS version of Netbeans in the future ;)? > > > > Am 09.07.2014 um 11:40 schrieb Robert Krüger : > > > > Hi, > > > > it is a little off-topic but the people reading this list are most > > likely the ones who could answer this. > > > > Is a port of Netbeans to JFX planned or even ongoing? It would > > certainly be a huge project but I am asking myself, if there is a way > > around that with Swing being de-facto legacy if Netbeans isn't dropped > > as a whole. It would certainly demonstrate Oracle's commitment to JFX > > as the future for Desktop UIs and would surely help the maturity of > > JFX which IMHO needs tons of real-world apps to be thrown at it. > > > > I would not be surprised not to get an answer for all sorts of > > understandable reasons but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Robert > >
Re: OT: Netbeans ported to JFX?
very interesting question ;) Will there be a android and iOS version of Netbeans in the future ;)? > Am 09.07.2014 um 11:40 schrieb Robert Krüger : > > Hi, > > it is a little off-topic but the people reading this list are most > likely the ones who could answer this. > > Is a port of Netbeans to JFX planned or even ongoing? It would > certainly be a huge project but I am asking myself, if there is a way > around that with Swing being de-facto legacy if Netbeans isn't dropped > as a whole. It would certainly demonstrate Oracle's commitment to JFX > as the future for Desktop UIs and would surely help the maturity of > JFX which IMHO needs tons of real-world apps to be thrown at it. > > I would not be surprised not to get an answer for all sorts of > understandable reasons but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway. > > Best regards, > > Robert
