RE: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish)
Hi Jo, thanks for your affirming words. I appreciate your feedback. It is vitally important to work with medical students and to challenge their accepted, medically conditioned ways of thinking. It is great you are doing that. You just never know what effect you will have on the future by your great work and kindness in teaching them and showing them what woman friendly means. Investment in these beginning medicos is critical. Remember, the more emotional you can make it, the more their brains remember and bring it up in the future. A pity they are imprinted with how not to be - you could use that though to really get them to articulate the desired way and make that a stronger imprint - this is where the Socratic style of questioning is so useful, for example How do you think that woman feels after. and what would be a better way of doing and what do you think the best course of action in that situation would be? and Do you think Dr Blah Blah was being woman friendly when he and Who was in control in that situation? Do you think the woman felt empowered by the way those choices were explained to her? etc. It seems that asking is always better than telling :-). Yes, they do get the edges bumped off them by the old guard, that is a survival tactic to fit in to the culture... but little by little Those who know these things say culture change takes about 30 years... Towards a woman friendly culture, warmly, Carolyn Hastie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of JoFromOz Sent: Monday, 21 October 2002 10:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) I love your post, Carolyn. You say a lot of what I feel but I don't know how to express it. The term 'stranded beetle' said it all for me... It makes me sad, but I am taking this thread as a challenge to be able to advocate better for women in situations such as these. I can only wish the 'new breed' of obstetric residents/registrars and obstetricians are more women-friendly. I have been working with some medical students recently, doing their obstetric placements. Many of them are saying that it is a great experience to see how NOT to be when/if they specialise in obstetrics. It is an advantage for the medical students to work on a day-to-day basis with midwives, but their growing minds still get poisoned with lectures and tutorials by those 'expert' obstetricians! Sincerely, Jo Babies are Born... Pizzas are Delivered. Interesting also the stranded beetle position in dogs indicates total surrender and lack of power - same for us human females - surrender and acquiescence and one is far less likely to complain or dissent in such a position. Roll on NMAP! In solidarity, Carolyn Hastie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish)
I'll get right onto it!!! BTW, looking forward to next week - Original Message - From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) what an excellent idea. - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) I think at the ICM Midwives Conference in Bris 2005 - I kow it's a long way off yet (it's just around the corner really), but what a venue and there are many things being planned surrounding the event to increase public awareness of midwives, so why not increase awareness of this aspect of women's lives too. Many of us become intertwined with this aspect of womens' lives in our work as midwives. Especially given the fact that it is so common. Perhaps an exhibition of how it relates to birthing too. That's the first thought that jumped into my head, but I will have a longer think about it. - Original Message - From: Sally Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Dear Lynne, At the moment it is just in Perth, but having spoken to these wonderful women would love the opportunity to help it travel but am looking for sponsorship. I, too, have a piece on childhood sexual abuse, my final folio for my Diploma in Illustrative Photography which needs to be 'out there' rather than in my wardrobe at home. If you have any ideas on where a collaborative exhibition like this could be held I would truly love to know. Thank you for you interest. Love Sally - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Sally, is this exhibititon able to be seen in other cities in the country? - Original Message - From: Sally Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Please, please, please ask your friend to reconsider making a complaint, this goes on all the time and yet again nothing is done. I have just been to Perth and stumbled across an art exhibition called Broken Promises. It was an exhibition by survivors of sexual abuse by medical practitioners and was both powerful and horrifying. They are at present trying to update the WA Medical Act from 1894 !! 1894. which omits any reference to sexual abuse, this omission leaves the health consumer very vulnerable as you can imagine. The statistics are frightening too, stating 1 in 10 medical practitioners perpetrate abuse, however very few are brought to justice because of the medical professions penchant to close ranks and protect their own and the fear the victims have of disclosing. Any sexual abuse is abhorrent, this dr must be told how your friend felt. I truly hope your friend finds a way of overcoming the anguish that she isfeeling. Love Sally -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Allergy tests
Edwina, I see a chiropractor in Glenelg who has helped me greatly with allergies. If you would like to email me privately or send me your phone number via private email, we can talk more. Christina. -Original Message-From: Vance Edwina [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Saturday, 19 October 2002 12:50Subject: [ozmidwifery] Allergy tests Dear List Can anyone recommend somewhere to go to get an allergy test for my daughter. She has a terrible scalp problem scaly, weeping bleeding sores, dandruff, itchyness have tried all the medical remedies from dandruff shampoo to goodness knows what! She also has suffered with eczema (mild-mod) since she was two and I have generally treated this with zinc cream and cotton bandages at night. I am out of ideas for her scalp though. We live in the Adelaide Hills (Mt Barker). Any suggestions? Thanks, Edwina
[ozmidwifery] contact details please
Hi Leigh (Evans), can you please email me? Did you have a good holiday? Hope so! I am looking for a contact address/phone for Debbie Drever and her friend Gail. I have someone who needs to talk to them Thanks - Lynne PS Any news about Lisa?
[ozmidwifery] educating the community
Hi all Denise's suggestion to use TV as an effective medium for educating the public is certainly something I agree with, and I hope that somewhere someone is working on a script. In the meantime in my everyday life I talk to anyone and everyone about normal childbirth and Australia's uniquely abnormal system compared to other countries. Yesterday I was attending a course Certificate V Workplace Training and I was able to get in the topic on several occasions. (a) one of the other participants was 5 months pregnant :-) golden opportunity ! She is booked in to a private hospital. I was able to explain the intervention rates at private hospitals and other options she might like to consider. :-) (b) the trainer was of Dutch descent. So I praised her country of origin and informed her of the nature of maternity services, the safety etc She was surprised and totally unaware of the extent of homebirth in her country and the safe outcomes. That just give 2 examples of how these people who were previously completely oblivious to the reality of maternity services in Australia and now they know. Chances are they will talk to someone else who will talk to someone else... Beautiful isn't it :-) Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224 T. (02) 9544 6441 F (02) 9544 9257 M. 0401 265 530 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Denise Hynd Sent: Monday, 21 October 2002 11:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Dear All I keep coming back to the need for our community to see and understand that there is another way a woman centred way to birth. The women and families need to see it so they can ask for it as do the midwives and other health professionals So please some one help get a programme on national TV that looks at and follows women, families and the midwives thru women centred care in Australia On the Community Midwfery Program Wa as with most homebirths the labours prgress with love and support for what the woman needs most births happen with out VE's and so many other intrusions! Please does some one have a connection to help show this way of birthing and care in pregnancy to our nation!! Denise - Original Message - From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) It's all very scary isnt it? the majority of women will accept such practices because of their belief in the infallibility of the doctor to do what is right. Aside from the issue where some people feel raped by such procedures, many accept it because it is seen as the doctor 'doing' something. He 'had' to induce, or he 'had' to find the cervix. I just find it so sad. A cervix that is not ready is the clearest indicator that it's not ready! Not that it requires pummelling into submission. I once cared for a woman who remained 4cm for a number of hours despite good contractions. Her obstetrician came and within minutes had manipulated the cervix into being fully dilated - plenty of blood in that procedure. I was appalled- imagine how sore she would have been next day. Mary Chiarella talks about theses issues in her book ' Silence in the Courts'. She suggests nurses live in a professional 'shadowland' when it comes to an ability to intervene in unsavoury medical practices. Or, more realistically, be heard. http://www.nmh.uts.edu.au/whatsnew/2000/silence.html Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) You know Denise, you have touched on something I have discussed with Vicki many times - love. What we (aspire to) do as midwives means loving women. And I have also experienced anger and hate for speaking about this (situations where women suffer at the hands of professionals who are supposed to care but cannot, or else why would they not stop when a woman asks them to, when she feels she is hurting, or being injured or worse, violated). So I say again, as I did in a recent posting, there is a Health Rights Commission there to be utilised in instances just such as these. If the woman cannot find the strength (or does not wish, for whatever reason) to take the issue further, then we as midwives can (we can in QLD - anonymously too, because midwives also are threatened for rocking the boat). Partners often feel intense anger at what occurs, but when the babe is born, there is the well, thank goodness my partner and the baby are OK thoughts which are reinforced by professionals when they say a good outcome, eh? There is an increasing body of evidence which points to the trauma partners also experience when they are witness to these
[ozmidwifery] CARES SA COFFEE EVENING
Hi All Just a quick reminder that CARES coffee evening is this Wednesday night!! Sorry about the very late notice, my Uni committments have been very consuming. Wednesday 23rd October From 8pm Carolyn's House 27 Wellington Street, Glandore SA 5037 Phone 8293 8333 Please bring a small plate to share and a gold coin donation or stamps would be appreciated. A lot of women who have contacted us over the last 12 months have given birth in the last month or are expecting within the next month, we wish them the very best of thoughts for their births and hope that they are all beautiful events, no matter what the outcome. Dont forget to let us know how it all goes; as we sit here thinking about you wonderful, powerful birthing women. :-) Looking forward to seeing you then. Bye for now. Carolyn Donaghey-Harris CARES SA Inc
Re: [ozmidwifery] educating the community
Golly, that looks like it could be my cue! I want to write for telly -- far more lucrative than theatre and you reach so many more people. Once my new radio play is finished (long way to go, short time though!) I'll think it over. Not that I've learned how to write TV yet, but I've never let a lack of knowledge get in the way. Gain the knowledge, gain the experience and go go go, is the way to get things done. Again, this list is for the go-getters, and I love it. Aviva Denise's suggestion to use TV as an effective medium for educating thepublic is certainly something I agree with, and I hope that somewheresomeone is working on a script.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish)
Dear elizabeth I am in sydeny working for NMAP Denise - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Denise, I tried to reach you in Perth at the Community Midwifery Programme, regarding a contact in Perth, channel 7, who seemed very interested in your proposal. Spoke to Julie who will pass on the message to Summer Goodwin, the PR officer. Liz Dear All I keep coming back to the need for our community to see and understand that there is another way a woman centred way to birth. The women and families need to see it so they can ask for it as do the midwives and other health professionals So please some one help get a programme on national TV that looks at and follows women, families and the midwives thru women centred care in Australia On the Community Midwfery Program Wa as with most homebirths the labours prgress with love and support for what the woman needs most births happen with out VE's and so many other intrusions! Please does some one have a connection to help show this way of birthing and care in pregnancy to our nation!! Denise - Original Message - From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) It's all very scary isnt it? the majority of women will accept such practices because of their belief in the infallibility of the doctor to do what is right. Aside from the issue where some people feel raped by such procedures, many accept it because it is seen as the doctor 'doing' something. He 'had' to induce, or he 'had' to find the cervix. I just find it so sad. A cervix that is not ready is the clearest indicator that it's not ready! Not that it requires pummelling into submission. I once cared for a woman who remained 4cm for a number of hours despite good contractions. Her obstetrician came and within minutes had manipulated the cervix into being fully dilated - plenty of blood in that procedure. I was appalled- imagine how sore she would have been next day. Mary Chiarella talks about theses issues in her book ' Silence in the Courts'. She suggests nurses live in a professional 'shadowland' when it comes to an ability to intervene in unsavoury medical practices. Or, more realistically, be heard. http://www.nmh.uts.edu.au/whatsnew/2000/silence.html Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) You know Denise, you have touched on something I have discussed with Vicki many times - love. What we (aspire to) do as midwives means loving women. And I have also experienced anger and hate for speaking about this (situations where women suffer at the hands of professionals who are supposed to care but cannot, or else why would they not stop when a woman asks them to, when she feels she is hurting, or being injured or worse, violated). So I say again, as I did in a recent posting, there is a Health Rights Commission there to be utilised in instances just such as these. If the woman cannot find the strength (or does not wish, for whatever reason) to take the issue further, then we as midwives can (we can in QLD - anonymously too, because midwives also are threatened for rocking the boat). Partners often feel intense anger at what occurs, but when the babe is born, there is the well, thank goodness my partner and the baby are OK thoughts which are reinforced by professionals when they say a good outcome, eh? There is an increasing body of evidence which points to the trauma partners also experience when they are witness to these ATROCITIES (and one has to call them that, for that is what they are). This is so connected to the couple's most intimate, personal and sexual selves - but where are the avenues for them to say No DON'T! Or when they do say, shoutplead, who hears, and moreso, who listens? - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Dear Megan and others I wish this was an aberation but as some one who has taken students for maternity expereince in different hospitals and done agency work in even more I have seen too much acceptance of this insensitivity to the physical and emotional feelings of women. Look at this particualr situation and multiply it be even a smal proportion of the ARMs out there! There
Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish)
Liz Can you email me offlist with the details you gave Summer, and I'll make sure that she gets them (and maybe I can follow up)? Thanks Debbie Slater Perth, WA new Chair of CMWA
Re: [ozmidwifery] Living and dying
Title: Living and dying Sue, As a mother ofanother March 2002 baby, I have wept for the mother that she won't see her child grow and for the baby that she won't hear from her mother how treasured she was, and counted my blessings me and mine are all together - for now. This event will live with you always, and I hope you can find some peace in the decision of the men in the mother's life - very difficult given your personal experience. Best wishes during your grief, Jo - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 7:40 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Living and dying Hi all,Want to share with you the extent of the 'trial' of being a homebirth attendant.Last week, one of the mothers whose births I attended in March was hit by a car and life support turned off at 5 days.I want to try to share with you the absolute grief I felt at such a callous and medical attitude to a mother's life.The decision to turn her off was made by her partner (of 12 months), and her two brothers.There are no parents, and there were no others who were mothers who were there to make the decision.She was my friend as well as one of my birthing mums. She was 41 and gave birth to her first (and only) baby in water at home on a lovely March morning. She was an animal activist, a birth activist, a strong, passionate woman who became my friend. We were building a 'wicked birth' website together.I read this and realise that you probably won't 'get' the gist of my pain and grief from my lack of ability to explain it. I helped this woman prepare for her birth, give birth, and then I helped through her tough post-partum period. Her baby is now 6 months old and is permanently without her mother. The medical told her family she was brain dead, had no future, the machines read nothing, it was irrefutable. I had gone through a similar scenario with my brother some years ago - only my mother in her mother's strength said 'no' to giving up on my brother. He woke up 3 months after his accident and his first words were ' get me out of here'. He now lives on his own and is as good as most of our population.I only wanted the same for the little baby girl. As much as we give to all the couples we help through birth, we can also give through death. I remember reading the article "midwives for the dying" some years ago, and now understand what it means.I fail to understand how clinical and disconnected and unbelieving in miracles this world can be ... I am proud to stand outside that box.Sue Cookson
RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard
My daughter has Mobile Billboards in Melbourne. You could talk to her about your needs by calling 0419 315 948 and mention her mum sent you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Denise Hynd Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard How do we get a billboard for NMAP and some one to pay for it?? Denise - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard That billboard is right near where I used to live!! Sally -Original Message- From: barbara glare chris bright [mailto:zacdan;datafast.net.au] Sent: Monday, 21 October 2002 7:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [birthnews] Breastfeeding billboard Hi, If you're driving through Geelong, keep an eye out for the billboard on your left just past the North Geelong Railway station. If your not anticipating a drive to Geelong, check it out on www.breastfeeding.asn.au Love, Barb ABA calendar and poster orders to [EMAIL PROTECTED] BirthNews is sponsored by CAPERS Bookstore the Birth Issues Journal. www.capersbookstore.com.au To unsubscribe, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] educating the community
Maybe we should develop a dossier with all the current facts and research extracts that we all carry when spreading the word A NMAP DOSSIER that means we are all spreading the same world with the latest facts. If we all contribute someone like me or others maybe able to compile it and update it. It could go to anyone on the Planet it would united and factual the message strong and concise. In agreeance with a National TV Programme that teaches practical information weekly would be good. Something to replace the Soapies. I go into many homes every week and the families are almost always watching the soapies often they don't turn it off during our 1 to 2 hour consultation. At times I have to ask for the volume to be turned down. If only we had a National dynamic programme for FAmilies, students, on pregnancy, birth breastfeeding and lot's more!! How many people might we reach? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] educating the community Hi all Denise's suggestion to use TV as an effective medium for educating the public is certainly something I agree with, and I hope that somewhere someone is working on a script. In the meantime in my everyday life I talk to anyone and everyone about normal childbirth and Australia's uniquely abnormal system compared to other countries. Yesterday I was attending a course Certificate V Workplace Training and I was able to get in the topic on several occasions. (a) one of the other participants was 5 months pregnant :-) golden opportunity ! She is booked in to a private hospital. I was able to explain the intervention rates at private hospitals and other options she might like to consider. :-) (b) the trainer was of Dutch descent. So I praised her country of origin and informed her of the nature of maternity services, the safety etc She was surprised and totally unaware of the extent of homebirth in her country and the safe outcomes. That just give 2 examples of how these people who were previously completely oblivious to the reality of maternity services in Australia and now they know. Chances are they will talk to someone else who will talk to someone else... Beautiful isn't it :-) Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224 T. (02) 9544 6441 F (02) 9544 9257 M. 0401 265 530 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Denise Hynd Sent: Monday, 21 October 2002 11:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) Dear All I keep coming back to the need for our community to see and understand that there is another way a woman centred way to birth. The women and families need to see it so they can ask for it as do the midwives and other health professionals So please some one help get a programme on national TV that looks at and follows women, families and the midwives thru women centred care in Australia On the Community Midwfery Program Wa as with most homebirths the labours prgress with love and support for what the woman needs most births happen with out VE's and so many other intrusions! Please does some one have a connection to help show this way of birthing and care in pregnancy to our nation!! Denise - Original Message - From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) It's all very scary isnt it? the majority of women will accept such practices because of their belief in the infallibility of the doctor to do what is right. Aside from the issue where some people feel raped by such procedures, many accept it because it is seen as the doctor 'doing' something. He 'had' to induce, or he 'had' to find the cervix. I just find it so sad. A cervix that is not ready is the clearest indicator that it's not ready! Not that it requires pummelling into submission. I once cared for a woman who remained 4cm for a number of hours despite good contractions. Her obstetrician came and within minutes had manipulated the cervix into being fully dilated - plenty of blood in that procedure. I was appalled- imagine how sore she would have been next day. Mary Chiarella talks about theses issues in her book ' Silence in the Courts'. She suggests nurses live in a professional 'shadowland' when it comes to an ability to intervene in unsavoury medical practices. Or, more realistically, be heard. http://www.nmh.uts.edu.au/whatsnew/2000/silence.html Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Rape by stealth (longish) You know Denise, you have touched on something I
[ozmidwifery] Fw: annoying medical crap
Hi, All, This is from my Active Birth Training student. She's given me permission to send it to the list; I love her! I think she and her man are the happiest, most loving couple I have EVER seen. I ought to pay them just to look at them! Love to all, Aviva ** Hello, I had a very annoying experience earlier today. I'm 36 weeks pregnant now, and from now on the 'routine' doctor visits are weekly. I think this is a total waste of time, since they just check my blood pressure which is fine, they poke the baby which is annoying and then i leave. I mean, it's such a waste of resources. Sure, being in the public health system i don't personally pay for anything, but the system pays, a system whose money can be much better spent on things that are important. If something was wrong then i'd feel it and could go and see a doctor, but to go and see them so often is just unnecessary when i'm fit and healthy and doing well. Anyway, after waiting in the waiting room for over half an hour, i was called in to the doctor's room. There was also a student doctor in there. After checking my blood pressure yet again just to tell me it's fine, then they get you to lie on your back so they can poke your belly and feel the baby. Yes, there is a baby in there, it's fine, it's head is down ready to be born, your poking doesn't help anything. So the student presses her hands SO hard into my belly right where the baby's head is and the baby kicked the biggest kick i've ever felt, looked like it was going to bust through the skin, and I yelled "OW!" and the doctor goes "Oh, are you tender there?" and i said "Only when i'm being poked that hard!" and I totally felt like decking the student. Sure, they have to learn somehow but be a bit gentler. Poor little baby, just chilling out in a nice, warm safe place, only to be poked and prodded by the stupid medical profession!!! I am really getting so sick of all this crap. Sure, there are benefits of the medical industry if there's something wrong, but other than that it is such a waste of time having all these unecessary checks. Anyway, Jonathan and I are busting to get a place of our own, so we'll start looking this week. It is becoming a little bit strained living under the same roof with people whose outlook on life is completely different to our own. Sure my parents are great people who mean well, but they are also very conservative and judgemental and such suckers who believe everything that's fed to them in the media, so lately it's been really frustrating having debates about things which we have completely different attitudes towards. And don't even get me started on vaccinations. I have been doing a lot of research into that and it is one of the most disturbing and scary issues that people are blindly accepting in mass proportions. I could go into it, but what it boils down to is that there are many risks involved, most of which go unheard, it is insane to inject a poison into a healthy baby, vaccinations are not even fully effective, are quite likely a cause of asthma, allergies, ADD, all these modern problems, and then they wear off when the child is older which is when there is a real risk of certain diseases being more harmful. If someone is naturally exposed to a disease, then they will produce antibodies that stay with them for the rest of their life, and also get passed from mother to baby. Vaccinations wear off, leaving people vulnerable at a much more risky time in their life. Not only that, but diseases mutate, especially when multiple diseases are mixed in one vaccine. All i can say is do your research and find out the pros and cons before blindly accepting what the medical profession dictates. Of course it's in the best interest of the pharmeceutical companies to promote widespread vaccination, more money for them. And for those people who praise vaccinations for wiping out many diseases that used to infect alot of people, in actual fact the number of people being infected with these diseases dropped dramatically before vaccinations were even introduced, mainly due to improved hygiene and knowledge about how these diseases were passed. Many vaccinated people still get the diseases they are supposed to be vaccinated against, vaccines contain preservatives and mercury and aluminium and basically i am really disturbed at the ignorance surrounding this issue. Ok, so i've elaborated more than i meant to, but it is a serious issue. Don't even attempt to explain any of this to my parents, it just falls on deaf ears. To them, you're risking the lives of the children if you don't vaccinate, which is exactly what the medical profession dictates. In actual fact, non-vaccinated children are generally much healthier, have less health problems and develop a very strong natural immune system which will stay with them for their whole lives, not like the vaccinated people who quite often have allergies,
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: annoying medical crap
Hi Aviva, Lots of points your friend makes are very valid, especially the one about being gentle, some people who haven't had babies (and even some who have!) have no idea how painful it is to have that poking in your belly. I was a bit disturbed to read though : snip If something was wrong then i'd feel it and could go and see a doctor, snip the problem with high blood pressure is that you don't necessarily "feel it", you may feel fantastic, and you can't rely on swelling up either, it can happen very late in hypertensive disease. I'll never forget a young girl of about 20 who "felt too good to be really sick" and refused treatment and was brought in a day later after having a massive stroke, with a severely compromised baby. Even though there's lots of overservicing of pregnancy I really don't think frequent checks in late pregnancy qualifies. My 2c worth Monica ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 14:12:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: annoying medical crap Hi, All, This is from my Active Birth Training student. She's given me permission to send it to the list; I love her! I think she and her man are the happiest, most loving couple I have EVER seen. I ought to pay them just to look at them! Love to all, Aviva ** Hello, I had a very annoying experience earlier today. I'm 36 weeks pregnant now, and from now on the 'routine' doctor visits are weekly. I think this is a total waste of time, since they just check my blood pressure which is fine, they poke the baby which is annoying and then i leave. I mean, it's such a waste of resources. Sure, being in the public health system i don't personally pay for anything, but the system pays, a system whose money can be much better spent on things that are important. If something was wrong then i'd feel it and could go and see a doctor, but to go and see them so often is just unnecessary when i'm fit and healthy and doing well. Anyway, after waiting in the waiting room for over half an hour, i was called in to the doctor's room. There was also a student doctor in there. After checking my blood pressure yet again just to tell me it's fine, then they get you to lie on your back so they can poke your belly and feel the baby. Yes, there is a baby in there, it's fine, it's head is down ready to be born, your poking doesn't help anything. So the student presses her hands SO hard into my belly right where the baby's head is and the baby kicked the biggest kick i've ever felt, looked like it was going to bust through the skin, and I yelled "OW!" and the doctor goes "Oh, are you tender there?" and i said "Only when i'm being poked that hard!" and I totally felt like decking the student. Sure, they have to learn somehow but be a bit gentler. Poor little baby, just chilling out in a nice, warm safe place, only to be poked and prodded by the stupid medical profession!!! I am really getting so sick of all this crap. Sure, there are benefits of the medical industry if there's something wrong, but other than that it is such a waste of time having all these unecessary checks. Anyway, Jonathan and I are busting to get a place of our own, so we'll start looking this week. It is becoming a little bit strained living under the same roof with people whose outlook on life is completely different to our own. Sure my parents are great people who mean well, but they are also very conservative and judgemental and such suckers who believe everything that's fed to them in the media, so lately it's been really frustrating having debates about things which we have completely different attitudes towards. And don't even get me started on vaccinations. I have been doing a lot of research into that and it is one of the most disturbing and scary issues that people are blindly accepting in mass proportions. I could go into it, but what it boils down to is that there are many risks involved, most of which go unheard, it is insane to inject a poison into a healthy baby, vaccinations are not even fully effective, are quite likely a cause of asthma, allergies, ADD, all these modern problems, and then they wear off when the child is older which is when there is a real risk of certain diseases being more harmful. If someone is naturally exposed to a disease, then they will produce antibodies that stay with them for the
[ozmidwifery] Fw:
Debbie, this didn't go through. Liz - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:41 AM Debbie, I spoke to Julie who would pass the details to Summer. Howard Gretton, Channel 7, 93440731 I outlined what Denise suggested - after firstly asking if he was interested - which he said he was. I was a bit disappointed that a male answered my call but still... I mentioned the word 'series' - so I hope to see a weekly episode of following women and their families through pregnancy, birth and beyond. Of course, whilst highlighting the role of the midwife!! I hope they take it on - I'm sure it would be much better than 'Neighbours' !! Good luck Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:
Thanks I'll speak to Summer and see if she got the message - I'll also follow up. Debbie
[ozmidwifery] Intuitive Midwifery
I guess I don't have much more to add than what Andrea, Pinky, Tina, others have already said the workshop (I attended in Melbourne on Saturday). So a BIG ditto from me too :o) Love to all of you beautiful women who shared yourselves with me. Vicki Nic- you ARE changing the world. Love, Jen -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
