RE: [ozmidwifery] Virus

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Argh! 
They aren't coming from me. My system is clean. Again, I reiterate... if you 
haven't done it already, update your antivirus... please! Just got an angry 
email from my brother asking me why he's getting Ozmidwifery emails. : 
)
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne 
  StaffSent: Monday, 24 November 2003 8:57 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Virus
  me too
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Pinky McKay 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:35 
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Virus

Caroline - I think you could have been infected 
. Ive just recieved a "sus" part email from you.
Pinky

RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth trauma anniversary

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Sonia,
 
I think it takes time to digest what happens 
as a result of a traumatic birth. I didn't fully deal with Liam's birth (or 
understand what happened) until I was pregnant with Daniel and it all came 
flooding back to me.
 
It might be a good idea to write a letter to 
your ob and if you don't feel you get an adequate response send a copy to the 
Health Complaints Commission in your State. I don't see why you'd want to tread 
carefully with him when you were the one who was wronged. 
 
Justine tells me they are quite receptive 
and want to hear stories like this because most women usually just bottle it all 
up and get on with their mothering (which I can fully understand because I know 
from personal experience it is easier to go forward and think about what you 
have than to revisit what you've lost in the process).
 
You aren't a fruit loop. Your reactions are 
normal... be a bit kinder to yourself! Liam is nearly four and I still have 
flashbacks occassionally I still find it hard even though I've had a 
positive birth experience with Daniel.
 
Big hugs and if you want to get in touch 
with our support group "Birth Trauma Support" just email Ursula at [EMAIL PROTECTED].
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and 
  S*Sent: Monday, 24 November 2003 5:35 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  trauma anniversary
   
  Rhonda,
   
  Thanks.  After sending my earlier message I re-read it and instantly 
  regretted posting it.
  I sound like a total fruit-loop!!
  I do appreciate your response though and have 
  taken all that you have said onboard.  I have actually sent my ob. a copy 
  of my birth story and we've talked about it at some length.  He said it 
  was "a fair and accurate account". 
   
  Even though I still don't blame him for what happend I do carry 
  some anger that won't go away.  I think I have been a little too good 
  natured in the past.  Maybe I should send him a letter expressing a 
  couple of my unfinished buisness issues?  I have toyed with this idea 
  before but have always hesitated as I don't want to tread on his little ob/gyn 
  toes.  Afterall, he's well and truly over it.
   
  For myself I want total closure and I do need to move on.  
  That is why I asked the question re. flaskbacks.  I want to keep moving 
  forward and not go the other way.
   
  I'm glad that there is at least one other mother 
  out there who has been-there-done-that and left still standing.  
  
  Thanks for being an inspiration Rhonda.
  Sonia W.
   
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth trauma anniversary

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hi 
Sonia,
 
Those 
flashbacks are quite normal given the trauma you experienced. Sounds as if you 
have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (although it is quite a normal reaction 
given the injury your baby received and what you went 
through).
 
I had 
flashbacks of Liam's birth and still do but they aren't as bad now because I've 
had plenty of opportunities to debrief.
 
I felt 
sad upon Liam's birthdays but I usually just took a little time out for myself 
to think about it and then got back in the swing of things. It is hard. 
Supressing the negative just makes the injury worse in my books. You need to 
acknowledge that you were hurt and your baby was hurt but also acknowledge that 
you still have each other.
 
If you 
want to chat some more just email me off list.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and 
  S*Sent: Monday, 24 November 2003 10:31 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth trauma 
  anniversary
  Hi guys,
      Was 
  wondering if I could get some advice from others who have had a traumatic 
  birth experience.
   
   Now that December is almost upon us I've 
  started to feel a slight sense of dread as my babe's first birthday 
  approaches.  I had PND with my first babe (10 years ago) and I am trying 
  my hardest to prevent that from happening again.
   
  I know it is my babe's birthday and that it 
  should be a time of happiness but there was so much that went wrong that day 
  and we lost so much... I can't help but feel saddness. How do I stop feeling negative about this upcoming milestone?  
  
   
  I was wondering if 
  there is anything that others have done to recognise such an anniversary 
  without loosing the joy that befits a first birthday?  
  
   
  And, if you have personally delt with birth 
  trauma did you have flashbacks in your quieter moments? 
  For the first few months after my babe's birth 
  I  would sometimes have flash backs to theatre and would see the image of 
  a scalpel running across a little back.  It happened once while I was 
  driving and was actually quite frightening.
   
  Those 'flashbacks' have stopped for some time 
  now and I'm hoping that they won't start again. If you had flash backs did 
  they re-surface around the time of the first birthday? 
  I guess it would be good to have some 
  forewarning.
   
  I know this all sounds a little 'off the wall' 
  but I need to ask these questions if I'm to keep strong and sane. 

  ( well, at least as sane as a mother with five 
  kids can be! lol )
   
  I'm hoping that someone will have 
  answers,
  TIA,  Sonia W.
   
   
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] Please update your anti-virus software!!!

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Your anti-virus software will tell you when you do a virus scan of your
computer.

Cheers,

Cas

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and S*
Sent: Monday, 24 November 2003 10:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Please update your anti-virus software!!!


Cas,  
How can you tell if your infected and inturn spreading the
virus? Sonia W.

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[ozmidwifery] Please update your anti-virus software!!!

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Ozmidders,

There is a rampant virus on this list. I and other people I know not
related to this list keep getting stray emails from people on this list.
What happens is that a virus attached to someone's email is openned and
gets info from our online address books and sends random emails from the
infected person to anyone on our email lists. A few people on Ozmid have
noticed this too. The only way we are going to get rid of the problem is
by updating our virus software to detect and get rid of the virus
causing this. So, please update yours today! We've updated ours.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2003 6:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] New Arrival



Congratulations, Barb & family. 
Thankyou for sharing such joyous news with us.

Toni Armstrong
Perth, WA


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Waterbirth pictures.

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

That's the thing... She does not understand at all.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sally
Williams
Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 10:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Waterbirth pictures.


OOh, Does this woman know how many needles she will have to endure if
she has a caesar?

Sally
- Original Message -
From: "Wayne and Caroline McCullough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Waterbirth pictures.


> Got a woman in one of our support groups who has a pregnant sister who

> is petrified of needles. She has even had hypnosis treatment to 
> alleviate her phobia but it didn't work. Anyway, she has birthed one 
> baby fine but was in a great deal of pain and wants to avoid  the pain

> and is now saying she wants a caesarean. Her sister has tried to 
> explain that a caesarean is far from pain free but she doesn't seem to

> get it.
>
> Anyway, in a desparate attempt to help her sister avoid a CS, this 
> woman wants to know about other pain-free options in birthing (other 
> than drugs). Her sister is in Cairns. Are there any Active Birth Yoga 
> classes there or hypnobirthing professionals, birth support services 
> up there that anyone knows of?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cas.
>
> Cas McCullough
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.casmccullough.com
>
>
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> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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[ozmidwifery] Regional MC Campaigning in Qld

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Wanted: Regional birth scene info and contacts in Qld

Hi everyone,

The other day at our MC AGM I mentioned my desire to develop our Qld-MC
media campaign into a national campaign and over the summer I am going
to start putting together a d-base of midwives, consumers etc in
regional areas so that we can start working on stories to get into
regional publications, radio etc. This will take awhile but I feel it is
necessary. We have Brisbane fairly well covered but have no current
access to local birth stories to get into regional media and in a State
like Qld this is sorely needed to show that birthcare reform is a
Statewide issue not just a Brisbane issue.

So, if you are from a regional area in Qld or know of service providers
and consumers who are interested in getting involved in MC from regional
areas could you please email details to me offlist?

Ultimately, what we'd like to do is get info packs to each area (Cesca
Lejeune will do this on her regional visits for Kids Help Line) and
appoint a local spokesperson for each area to deal with consumer
complaints as issues arise and handle media inquiries at the local
level.

Any questions, comments and concerns please let me know.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Waterbirth pictures/Cairns educator

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Thanks Andrea,

I have been inundated with replies which is terrific! The woman who is
inquiring for her sister has just had a c-birth for breech presentation
(although she made them wait until she was in labour and 7cm dilated)
and wants a homebirth next time. She's moving up to Cairns herself next
year so all this info will be good for her too.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea
Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 5:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Waterbirth pictures/Cairns educator


Hi Cas,

The best childbirth educator in Cairns is Vanessa Johnston - a midwife,
and 
part of our faculty for the Graduate Diploma. She is a wonderful woman,
who 
knows the Cairns scene intimately - please email me privately if you
need 
her contact details - I am not in my office today and cannot access them

easily while on the road.

Cheers

Andrea



At 11:30 AM 18/11/2003, Wayne and Caroline McCullough wrote:
>Got a woman in one of our support groups who has a pregnant sister who 
>is petrified of needles. She has even had hypnosis treatment to 
>alleviate her phobia but it didn't work. Anyway, she has birthed one 
>baby fine but was in a great deal of pain and wants to avoid  the pain 
>and is now saying she wants a caesarean. Her sister has tried to 
>explain that a caesarean is far from pain free but she doesn't seem to 
>get it.
>
>Anyway, in a desparate attempt to help her sister avoid a CS, this 
>woman wants to know about other pain-free options in birthing (other 
>than drugs). Her sister is in Cairns. Are there any Active Birth Yoga 
>classes there or hypnobirthing professionals, birth support services up

>there that anyone knows of?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Cas.
>
>Cas McCullough
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.casmccullough.com
>
>
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>Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.


-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Waterbirth pictures.

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Got a woman in one of our support groups who has a pregnant sister who
is petrified of needles. She has even had hypnosis treatment to
alleviate her phobia but it didn't work. Anyway, she has birthed one
baby fine but was in a great deal of pain and wants to avoid  the pain
and is now saying she wants a caesarean. Her sister has tried to explain
that a caesarean is far from pain free but she doesn't seem to get it.

Anyway, in a desparate attempt to help her sister avoid a CS, this woman
wants to know about other pain-free options in birthing (other than
drugs). Her sister is in Cairns. Are there any Active Birth Yoga classes
there or hypnobirthing professionals, birth support services up there
that anyone knows of?

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Epidural

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

A friend of mine recently had twins naturally. No epidural at all or
drugs of any kind, baby 1 born in water, baby 2 flipped to transverse
and the doctor reached in pulled baby around by leg into breech and
delivered on the bed as a footling breech.

Mother up and around within a few hours and went home two days later.

Just goes to show that it can be done! If this woman wants to contact my
friend please email me off list.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirsten
Blacker
Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 6:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural


Some years ago I had an situation like this. The mother agreed to have
the 
epidural inserted, have a small test dose, which then wore off, and left
the 
epidural catheter in for the duration. A compromise that kept everyone
happy Kirsten


>From: "Diane Gardner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [ozmidwifery] Epidural
>Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:13:26 +1100
>
>Hi all
>
>I have a client, 42 y.o first time mum who is expecting twins. Her 
>ob/gyn
>has told her that he would like her to have and epidural anyway to
prepare 
>her in case they have any trouble with the second twin being born. When
she 
>asked the midwife at her antenatal class if they can just insert the
needle 
>without giving her the actual medication she was told that it was
either 
>give it or not prepare her for the epidural at all, no half way.
>
>In your opinions is this correct or can they do all the prep and then
>administer the drug if complications occur?
>
>thanks in advance
>Diane
>
>
>
>

_
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[ozmidwifery] teleconference

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Just wanted to say 
what a great teleconference it was on Saturday. We were sitting on Helen 
Bremner's bedroom floor, babies crawling everywhere, listening in from 
Brisvegas. :) That's where we could get the best reception. I look forward to 
the next MC year. Hopefully we in Qld will be able to get a good Health Minister 
and start seeing some changes so that we can catch up with the other states... 
we are so behind.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re virus

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Yeah, 
I didn't send that so just delete it. I don't think there is anything I can do 
to correct this from my end. Our virus checker picked up the 
others.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Denise 
  HyndSent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 11:34 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re 
  virus
  There is also one from Wayne & 
  Carol
  But not their email or at least aabouncing email 
  
  Virus are coming now without 
  attachments!!Denise Hynd
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Mary 
Murphy 
To: list 
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:38 
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re virus

Hi, I received an email from Diane Gardner that had a virus.  It 
was sent to my Inbox, not my Ozmid box. 
MM

RE: [ozmidwifery] full page report in today's Advertiser

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I 
wrote this but don't know if it will be published because I am a Qlder. Made me 
feel better to write it though. Thanks to that press release by CAPPA I used one 
of their lines (slightly altered) because it was worded so beautifully and 
concisely.
 
Let's 
keep putting the wind up the establishment's sails
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 

 
As someone who has had two caesareans 
(one caused by the cascade of intervention and one necessary) I can honestly say 
that Dr Mudge's comments implying that caesarean section is safer and better 
than vaginal birth are misleading and dangerous. There are risks with caesareans 
and some complications are more common that Dr Mudge would lead women to 
believe.
 
For example, I suffered major 
complications during my first caesarean and had a post-op infection that left me 
in agony for weeks aftwards. As a direct result of my caesarean operation I 
suffered from post traumatic stress dissorder and depression. In addition, my 
son was rushed to hospital 2 weeks after birth because of respiratory distress, 
also a common side affect of caesarean births. 
 
Six months on from my second 
caesarean (medically indicated this time) I still feel pain in my back where 
the epidural went in and in my scar 
area. I have to massage the area constantly to stop adhesions forming 
which is also very painful. 

 
What Dr Mudge failed to mention is 
that research also shows a high incidence of bladder, bowel and sexual problems 
after a caesearn. He also failed to mention that the risks of damage during a 
vaginal birth are dramatically increased BY medical intervention. The use of 
forceps, vacuum extraction, episiotomy, and the lithotomy position for delivery 
are common in a medicalised vaginal birth (as opposed to a home or birth centre 
birth). 
 
I agree women are the victims in this primarily because 
they do not have access to evidence-based information and world class maternity 
care (continuous one-to-one midwifery care for pregnancy, labour and early 
motherhood). They end up birthing in front of strangers, in a medical 
environment, under a lot of pressure. 
 
That the healthiest women in the 
world fear birth so much (the most powerful and natural thing a woman can do), 
that they have been stripped of the ability to birth unobstructed is a sad 
indictment of our society.
 
I belong to two support groups which 
help women traumatised by birth and the majority of them have had caesareans and complain about their treatment in 
hospital birthing environments. Many of these women now choose to pay for 
midwifery-led care as a direct result (because it is not freely available in 
Australia). 
 
Sadly, if the current trend continues 
I fear that there will be many more women entering motherhood scarred and broken 
instead of empowered and confident as they should be.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Caroline McCulloughConsumer 
Advocate Member Birth Trauma Support GroupMember Maternity 
Coalition
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry & 
  MeganSent: Thursday, 13 November 2003 2:12 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] full page 
  report in today's Advertiser
  Thanks for posting this Tania, 
  I 
  wrote straight away, my heart pounding with anger over what women are 
  losing.
  Below is my response,
  Megan
   
  Birthing Rights,(Advertiser 
  13/11)Dr Mudge says "Women are the innocent victim in all this,". Too 
  bloody right we are. Not because of the difference of opinion between 
  Midwives and Obstetricians, just a pure lack of the medical model of birth 
  giving women accurate information and allowing them to make true informed 
  choice.I have given much of my 
  time listening and talking to women about their birth experiences, including 
  birthing three children myself. There is so much miss-information out there 
  and women are making choices based on this that will effect them for the rest 
  of their lives.Of course we should be able to birth how and where we feel 
  safe, but this should not be forced on us due to anothers mistrust of the 
  birthing process.If Dr Mudge is advocating choice, I hope he is also 
  willing to throw his support behind women who choose to birth at 
  home.
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Tom, Tania 
and Sam SmallwoodSent: Thursday, 13 November 2003 
12:44To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
[ozmidwifery] full page report in today's Advertiser
Oh  boy, you have to check this one out.  An 
official response from the Maternity Coalition or CARES 
perhaps?
 
Tania
 
http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7851067%255E20221,00.html
 

 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support (long)

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

If I were you Claire, I'd suggest to her that she get herself
professional birth support. That's how I started down this road. She
might need some cold hard facts about how the system is geared to help
her fail and not succeed... If that prompts her to seek birth support
then that might empower her to investigate her options further.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob and
Claire Leslie-Carter
Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 7:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support (long)


I have a question for all you wise women.

A friend of mine is now pregnant with her second child, the first born
by 
c-section due to placenta praevia (sp?).  She is mostly decided to try
for a 
VBAC but not 100%.  After all our recent talk about caesarians etc. I
think 
she is a prime candidate for a failed VBAC.  However I don't really know

what to say to her.  I think she would be better off finding an
independent 
midwife, but that is so far away from her mind set.  There is a lot in
what 
Sonia was saying about the perceived inferiority of midwife led care, I 
don't know if it would be possible for her to shift to the idea of a 
midwife.  She is complaining about her ob's gap (which I think is some
sort 
of extra payment (I'm English it's all a mystery to me)) but still
doesn't 
even think about a midwife.

All I'm asking is is there anything I can do or say?  I will just feel
so 
bad if she has a horrendous time which possibly could have been avoided.

What can we learn from all these horror stories to help other women?

Claire Saxby


>From: "Wayne and Caroline McCullough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement,  support (long)
>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:46:07 +1000
>
>Sonia,
>
>Thank you for your beautiful words.. I have tears in my eyes. You are 
>coming to terms with something so monumental... A year or so ago that 
>was me... I went from the "private/obstetric" mindset about birth to 
>the "midwife" mindset but was still so influenced by all the things you

>mention that I still had my own obstetrician even though I'd hired a 
>private midwife. Now I know that I would do things very differently 
>next time It is a hard journey to be on and you are doing so 
>amazingly. I send you strength and blessings and would like your 
>permission to pass this message on to others who may need to read it 
>too.
>
>Love Cas.
>
>Cas McCullough
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.casmccullough.com
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and S*
>Sent: Tuesday, 11 November 2003 6:11 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support (long)
>
>
>Jodie Miller wrote:
>
>" I honestly don't think many birthing
>women really know what midwives can do for them. "
>
>
>Hi all (Yeah, I'm still around),
>
>I absolutely agree with Jodie's statement.
>
>Before I birthed my fourth babe I was always of the understanding that 
>to be in the very best of care meant that you had to be looked after by

>an obstetrician.  Anything less was inferior care or not ideal.  To be 
>looked after by a midwife, in the public system ie Midwive's Clinic 
>suggested lower socio-economic status and desperation.
>
>This still appears to be the pervasive thinking among the many women 
>that I know.
>
>My 4th babe was a 'public babe' as I was caught out between health 
>insurances when I became pregnant. That whole pregnancy was spent at my

>local hospital's mw's clinicor so it seemed. I would regularly wait

>for hours to be seen by a mw and then in turn by a stressed out RMO. 
>And as I always had my three children under seven with me, I was 
>consistently hypertensive. (suprise,suprise)
>
>It was so very easy to see the frustration that other women attending 
>the clinic were feeling. And perhaps in a more sublte way, so too did I

>see the immense frustration of the midwives who tried to do their job 
>under difficult circumstances.
>
>At the end of this horrible pregnancy came a difficult induction (at 
>the hands of one incredibly arrogant ob) due to hypertension.
>
>HOWEVER, once that was over  my labor was overseen by a very gentle and

>amazingly astute midwife. (Hi Nola!!)
>
>This was the first and only birth I have had without an ob present.  It

>was by far the most peaceful, gentle, beautiful birth that I have 
>experienced. My hypertension slipp

[ozmidwifery] RE: Landlord complaint

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I love 
the last answer. LOL
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of linda 
  kamchevskiSent: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 8:12 AMTo: 
  listSubject: 
  At-home 
  Childbirth Raises Rental Issues of Noise and Privacy 
  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support (long)

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Sonia,

Thank you for your beautiful words.. I have tears in my eyes. You are
coming to terms with something so monumental... A year or so ago that
was me... I went from the "private/obstetric" mindset about birth to the
"midwife" mindset but was still so influenced by all the things you
mention that I still had my own obstetrician even though I'd hired a
private midwife. Now I know that I would do things very differently next
time It is a hard journey to be on and you are doing so amazingly. I
send you strength and blessings and would like your permission to pass
this message on to others who may need to read it too.

Love Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and S*
Sent: Tuesday, 11 November 2003 6:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support (long)


Jodie Miller wrote:

" I honestly don't think many birthing
women really know what midwives can do for them. "


Hi all (Yeah, I'm still around),

I absolutely agree with Jodie's statement.

Before I birthed my fourth babe I was always of the understanding that
to be in the very best of care meant that you had to be looked after by
an obstetrician.  Anything less was inferior care or not ideal.  To be
looked after by a midwife, in the public system ie Midwive's Clinic
suggested lower socio-economic status and desperation.

This still appears to be the pervasive thinking among the many women
that I know.

My 4th babe was a 'public babe' as I was caught out between health
insurances when I became pregnant. That whole pregnancy was spent at my
local hospital's mw's clinicor so it seemed. I would regularly wait
for hours to be seen by a mw and then in turn by a stressed out RMO. And
as I always had my three children under seven with me, I was
consistently hypertensive. (suprise,suprise)

It was so very easy to see the frustration that other women attending
the clinic were feeling. And perhaps in a more sublte way, so too did I
see the immense frustration of the midwives who tried to do their job
under difficult circumstances.

At the end of this horrible pregnancy came a difficult induction (at the
hands of one incredibly arrogant ob) due to hypertension.

HOWEVER, once that was over  my labor was overseen by a very gentle and
amazingly astute midwife. (Hi Nola!!)

This was the first and only birth I have had without an ob present.  It
was by far the most peaceful, gentle, beautiful birth that I have
experienced. My hypertension slipped away and was no longer problematic
and I was treated with dignity.

With my 5th pregnancy I was SO ready to be looked after by a mw.  But
the prospect of dealing with 'The Clinic' was so off-putting that I went
private with an obstetrician. And while I wasn't hypertensive throughout
my pregnancy and prenat. visits were hassle free,  there still was a
disatrous consequence to be paid later on during my unnecessary (?)
cesarean section.


Upon reflection:
I wish that I had been given the option of a one-on-one mw service. I
wish that I had known that this type of service existed. I wish that
women could be better educated about the services available to them
BEFORE they are pregnant. I wish that I had realised  that when I hired
an ob/gyn  I was actually hiring a surgeon. I wish that midwifery as a
whole could be widely promoted as a valid, obstetric profession, one to
which vulnerable women can safely entrust their care. I also wish that
there will soon be total reform in the Public Maternal Health system.
Women should always be treated with dignity and be made to feel that
they are more than just a pregnant chunk of flesh.

If only I could have my time again.

Sonia W.

PS.  I hope that I haven't been too high-handed in posting this and that
I haven't offended.












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RE: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



If you are willing (actually if 
any of you are willing) I have been working on trying to get Ross Coulthardt 
from the Sunday Show on Channel 9 to do a story on maternity services in 
Australia but he needs some insiders who are brave enough to speak out. The 
problem that we've encountered here in Qld is that the midwives in the system 
are too afraid for their jobs (and rightly so), plus we don't want to lose our 
good midwives and consumers are often not all that keen to speak out after their 
babies are born because they just want to get on with 
things.
 
There are two things we need to 
do to get more of women's stories out to the media... get those who have already 
left the system to speak out and encourage consumers to speak out. 

 
We have had several situations 
warranting this...a couple of egs. are...  a woman having to drive down 
from Toowoomba in labour to give birth at the birth centre because the hospital 
DON in Toowoomba said they don't "do natural birth" there because the obs. 
students need more practice at intervention A woman being told she had to 
have a c-section when she wanted a vaginal breech birth (this one we 
successfully leaked to the media and got good coverage) at a public hospital in 
Brisbane, a woman being told she would be forced to have a caesarean simply 
because she'd had a previous one (also in Toowoomba).
 
Please think seriously about 
these issues and how you can help get them onto the media agenda. A programme 
like Sunday is good because they are investigative and the journos are 
reputable. Ross is sympathetic to our cause and all he needs is lots more 
stories like these so it warrants further investigation on his part. ... A few 
brave whistle blowers are needed.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian 
  PettiferSent: Saturday, 8 November 2003 8:05 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Advise, 
  encouragement, support
  


  
I am leaving a midwifery position where I have continually 
witnessed brutal assaults to labouring, birthing women, no doubt deeply 
traumatised by their experience for a long time afterward, likewise 
their significant others supporting them during the childbirth 
experience.  Prior to my resignation I need to make a 
difference.  
Initially I was horrified, complained to other midwives/obstetric 
nurses I work with, whom were judgemental, commenting that perhaps I 
should seek employment elsewhere.  I complained to the unit manager 
whom decided I should attend the next obstetric meeting sharing my 
concerns with obstetricians involved.(And get shot between the 
eyeballs)  
As a stand alone midwife, NZ trained, I began informing women what 
to expect with vaginal examinations and what not to expect, 
hence:discomfort, not excruciating pain. That painful VE are 
unnecessary.
Feedback from women post VE:
"I felt like I had been raped."
"It felt like my wisdom teeth were being pulled out through my 
vagina."
"The pain was so bad I tried to crawl out the top of the bed to get 
away."
"My husband will never forgive me for this."
Breaks my heart and brings tears to my eyes that this crap is 
allowed to continue.  My main goal is to make a change for 
even one women that I make a connection with, the reason I continued to 
work there.
 For my professional, personal well being, but mostly for 
women I need to take this one step further.   I desperately 
want these obstetricians to realise that their vaginal examinations 
are brutal assaults and not acceptable. 
I am prepared to do what ever it takes to stop women 
suffering.  
  Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
 
At this point I would prefer to remain anonymous for the time 
being, I know you will understand.
 
THANKS
 
 

  

  
  


  
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click 
  Here 
<>

RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MatCoWA] give me some questions

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Who 
won't go out to lunch while you're in labour (unless it's with 
you)?
a 
Midwife.
 
Who 
won't lie to you about you or your baby?
A 
Midwife
 
Who 
won't carve you up just so they can get home to bed by a reasonable 
hour?
A 
Midwife
 
Who 
will put the needs of you and your baby first?
A 
Midwife
 
Who 
can tell how dilated you are without shoving their hand up your vagina? (Sorry 
to sound crass but it's true)
A 
Midwife
 
Who 
will help you run the marathon and cheer you on when the going gets 
tough?
A 
Midwife
 
Who 
will remember your name six months after your baby is born?
A 
Midwife.
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dierdre 
  BowmanSent: Sunday, 9 November 2003 9:49 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 
  [MatCoWA] give me some questions
  Which care provides provides the most affordable 
  care with the best outcomes and least intervention?
  The 
Midwife.

RE: [ozmidwifery] effects of contractions on the fetus???

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Okay, 
okay I forget you are on this list sometimes Dierdrie : )... I feel a 
bit now though getting that off my chest... I guess it is normal to go over 
things again after the fact I just need to feel a sense of peace about it, 
especially since I am still suffering physically.
 
Well, 
gotta go... bubs needs to go to bed...
 
FYI... 
if anyone wants to email me at the moment please use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as we are 
having difficulties with Ozemail.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dierdre 
  BowmanSent: Thursday, 6 November 2003 9:56 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] effects of 
  contractions on the fetus???
  My dear friend, I realize the grieving process 
  takes time and you have so much to be dissapointed about. But I was there and 
  I know that you did all the right things.  You made choices based on the 
  facts and also based on the joint decision making made by you and your 
  husband.  You did the best you could for where you were at and you need 
  to stop beating up on yourself.  You also need to give yourself time to 
  grieve and grow  before you make any decisions about the future. There is 
  plenty of time.
  If you need to talk please ring me at home 
  anytime!
   
  Blessings
  Dierdre

RE: [ozmidwifery] effects of contractions on the fetus???

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Lynne, 
I really appreciate the examples here... I guess I'm a bit worried if the same 
thing happens again I mean going to 43 or 44 weeks and running low on 
amniotic fluid... I think I'd be drinking gallons (not that I wasn't, cause I 
did those last few days) and using OFP heaps. I know that my gestational period 
is around the 42 to 44 week mark because of when I started getting real ctx (the 
Monday before I had Dan... about 5 days earlier). It just doesn't seem fair 
I guess... I mean, I went through an unec. C with my first at 38+5 weeks and 
then end up having another C-birth for totally different reasons... Sorry, I 
don't mean to sound self-piteous but it really stinks! Just gotta work through 
it and move on. If I had a crystal ball and could see how my next birth was 
going to happen and it turned out the same way I would do everything in my power 
not to get pregnant... I love Dan... he is an absolute joy but I don't want to 
go through all that again.
 
Thanks 
for the feedback ya'll...
 
cheers,
 
Cas.
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne 
  StaffSent: Wednesday, 5 November 2003 5:31 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] effects of 
  contractions on the fetus???
  Did you feel at the time it was the right thing 
  to do Cas? There were elements that made up your particular set of 
  circumstances at that time, and part of that was you feeling what 
  was the right thing to do at that time with your unique situation. A good 
  friend of mine woke up one morning (her baby was 42 weeks) and she felt a 
  sense of urgency that her babe had to be born that day. The babe was moving 
  well, felt to have a good amount of amniotic fluid around it, was also head 
  down and seemingly 'ready to go' and had felt like that for ages. My 
  friend thinks she would STILL be in there because she seemed so happy, 
  but something told her the baby had to come out that day, because.and she 
  doesn't know what the because was, just that it had to happen.(Born at 
  home) 
   
  Another mother was 42 + 2 and had a similar 
  labour to the one you describe Cas, not a lot of amniotic fluid on palpation, 
  good movements. She ruptured her membranes and there was quite heavy meconium 
  staining (first babe). Contractions stayed at 5 mins, after a day she opted 
  for epidural, and within an hour went from 3 cm to fullu open, gave birth 
  gently to a very 'flat' baby and loads of heavy meconium following his body 
  out. He did need extensive resusc but is fine. Born in hosp, but 
  planned homebirth - transfer during labour and treated with care and respect - 
  I only add this because of the reception women can get of they are more than 
  42weeks. Very happy with care.
   
  Another similar to the woman above (42 +2)and she 
  went to theatre for a caesarean, because her babe was getting unhappy in her 
  labour (also 5 minutely all night and 2 cm cervix). Lots of mec and nursery 
  care for 5 days. Born in hosp but planned homebirth, also transferred to hosp, 
  but treated with care and respect. Very happy with care.
   
  Or Sally on Sunday night - 42 + 5 (definite 
  dates), on and off labour for a few days, got going on Sunday afternoon - long 
  labour for her (first babe quick labour and birth). This little man was OP, 
  deflexed and stayed that way until being born. Ruptured membranes 1 hr before 
  birth, clear liquor, but very squeezy shoulders. Came out with some help, and 
  doing beautifully - an old soul in a new body!
   
  Four of many stories Cas - each with their own 
  set of circumstances, and these women also reflected (and continue to do so), 
  on what might have happened had things been different.
   
  Catch up soon :-)
  
    - Original Message - 
From: 
Wayne 
and Caroline McCullough 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:10 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] effects of 
contractions on the fetus???

that refers to 
the increased moulding of the fetal head, the increased possibility of cord 
compression and a possible decrease in pH as a result with ruptured 
membranes.
 
Six months after Dan's birth, this is something I wonder about... I 
was 17 days past my due date, ripe cervix, head well down in pelvis and in 
anterior position (had been posterior for a week and a half with ctx getting 
to five minutes then stopping), had good foetal movements but sometimes got 
a bit worried if I didn't feel anything for a couple of hours, had no 
amniotic fluid whatsoever, the sonogram at 16 days PD showed chord 
wrapped around bub's neck and a tiny bit of amniotic fluid in bub's 
stomach, no foetal distress but a slightly l

RE: [ozmidwifery] effects of contractions on the fetus???

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



that refers to the 
increased moulding of the fetal head, the increased possibility of cord 
compression and a possible decrease in pH as a result with ruptured 
membranes.
 
Six 
months after Dan's birth, this is something I wonder about... I was 17 days past 
my due date, ripe cervix, head well down in pelvis and in anterior position (had 
been posterior for a week and a half with ctx getting to five minutes then 
stopping), had good foetal movements but sometimes got a bit worried if I didn't 
feel anything for a couple of hours, had no amniotic fluid whatsoever, the 
sonogram at 16 days PD showed chord wrapped around bub's neck and a tiny 
bit of amniotic fluid in bub's stomach, no foetal distress but a slightly 
lowered heartrate (around 90 to 110 average when not active), was having 
ctx but nothing regular at that stage... was my baby likely to go into 
distress if I tried to birth him normally? At that stage the only choices 
offered to me were induction with half strength prost., no syntoncinon or 
scheduled caesarean... I feel like I should have waited a couple more days but I 
realise that you can only make decisions based on the circumstances you are in. 
I didn't want to induce with no amniotic fluid.
 
Thing 
is, he came out with perfect appearance (no postmaturity) and perfect lung 
function and near perfect Apgars 8 and 9. There was some green mec. staining on 
placenta and a couple of calcium deposits and bub's head showed signs of 
moulding.
 
I 
would really like to know if I had any other choice? Please be brutally honest. 
Did I just give in to the pressure or did I make a choice that saved my baby's 
life?
 
I am 
really grieving this at the moment and it would help to understand things 
better.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.   
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] My CD got in the newspaper!

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Wow! Thanks Jo!

Cheers,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jo hunter
Sent: Monday, 3 November 2003 1:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] My CD got in the newspaper!


Hi Caroline,
Congrats on your article. I purchased a copy of your cd at the Homebirth
Conference on the w/e and it is beautiful - congratulations and
thankyou. Jo

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[ozmidwifery] My CD got in the newspaper!

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to pass on this article in one of our local papers... Made
page three and had a lovely photo of me and my beautiful boys. Some of
the "facts" are a bit exaggerated but overall I felt she did a good job.
The journo was only 21 and has no kids so imagine how this might
influence her... I always think of that : ).

By the way, if anyone else wants a CD, they are now being sold via
Credit Card through Capers Bookstore online. www.capersbookstore.com.au.

Cheers,

Cas.

*
Title: "Birth Trauma Spurs CD"
 
A distressing first birth resulting in post-traumatic stress disorder
has been the driving force behind a mother's decision to launch a CD in
support of birth care reform.
 
Forest Lake's Caroline McCullough, who performs under the stage name
"Cas", will donate 50 cents from every album sold to support the Birth
Talk group and help change birth care.
 
When pregnant with her first child, Ms McCullough was induced at 38
weeks and felt severe pain during an emergency caesarean operation.
 
"When I told the anaesthetist, he ignored me and said: 'Are you sure?
It's just tugging and pushing,'" Ms McCullough said.
 
She finally screamed out in pain and was given a general anaesthetic.
 
"They didn't do it straight away--they didn't believe me at first. I
guess it was unusual that someone felt pain," Ms McCullough said.
 
"It was pretty traumatic and no one wants to go through that-it was
horrible."
 
Since conducting her own research and talking to other mothers, Ms
McCullough has discovered traumatic births are not uncommon, especially
for women induced earlier than 40 weeks into the pregnancy.
 
"The majority of people I talk to who were induced at 38 or 39 weeks- I
can finish the story for them. It's the same (as my experience", she
said.
 
Ms McCullough had severe panic attacks following the pregnancy, and was
diagnosed with Post Natal Depression, which she now believes was
post-traumatic stress disorder.
 
She said one of the biggest problems with birth care was women did not
know their options and the medical system failed to give them useful
advice and information, especially about the risks of caesareans.
 
"Women are not empowered with choices," she said.
 
"They're told what to do. They end up in the hands of strangers and are
easily manipulated by people who make decisions for them."
 
This point was emphasised to Ms McCullough by the contrast of care
between her first and second birth, where she hired a midwife.
 
"She would do anything for Daniel and I. She put us first and it ws the
most amazing thing in the world to have someone you trust."
 
Through national birth care reform group Maternity Coalition, Ms
McCullough has been lobbying governments to adopt the National Maternity
Action Plan, which will allow women to have continuity of care
throughout pregnancy.
 
To order a copy of Ms McCullough's CD Stranger's City log onto her
website at www.casmccullough.com
 
[Caption: Caroline McCullough sings out about her birth care
experiences, with the support of her children three-year-old Liam and
five-month-old Daniel.]
 
By Carmen Greive. Satellite, p.3, October 29.
 

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Hypnobirthing

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Perhaps hypnobirthing is the wrong label. Perhaps it is more about
achieving a peace within oneself naturally rather than hypnotising
oneself into an altered state, because when we think hypnosis we tend to
think of people doing crazy things on a stage and not knowing anything
about their own antics... By common definition the word implies a lack
of control, accountability and a susceptibility to control by others...
I just think we need to get past the labels. If by hypnobirthing you
mean getting into a relaxed state which we all know is so important in
labour (although I dare say women have given birth in all kinds of
states depending on their circumstances... How would you feel giving
birth during the bombing of Bagdad for instance?). My mother birthed my
sister in a pain-free state. She basically went into hospital after her
waters broke and then after a few hours of nothing felt the urge to
push... The midwife told her to hold on and left the room to get the
doctor but she said "no way" and seconds later the midwife caught my
older sister, just in time. I can tell you that my Mum was in no way
relaxed because she was all on her own until that final push but she
still had a pain-free delivery.

Just some more food for thought!

Cheers,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea
Robertson
Sent: Friday, 31 October 2003 5:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Hypnobirthing 


Hi Tracey,

I like to get people to think... that is always my first aim!

I wonder if what you were feeling in your third birth was actually the 
effect of endorphin release? As you know, the endorphins are directly 
affected by fear and anxiety and perhaps the wodnerful support you had
in 
your pregnancy that enabled you to work through your concerns from
earlier 
experiences meant that your andrenaline was lower, and your endorphins
were 
thus at a higher level than before.  Whilst you might think that this
was 
due to "hypno-birthing" perhaps it was your body doing what it does 
naturally. As a natural opiate, endorphins will create just this kind of

mental state that you describe and they will of course reduce the pain
you 
are feeling as well.

Let's remember that nature never intended women to suffer during birth
and 
provides endorphins to  get us through. If we ascribe their effects to
some 
kind of learned behaviour instead of acknowledging their purpose and
impact 
then we are selling ourselves and our wonderful innate capacity for
birth 
short, once again.

Love these kinds of debates

Warm regards,

Andrea


At 02:50 PM 31/10/2003, Tracey Anderson Askew wrote:
>Wow Andrea,
>I was also a bit surprised by your response, and it certainly stirred 
>me up enough to respond. My third birth was a hypno-birth state, and 
>whilst I didn't experience pain in the same way I did with my first two

>births, I was by no means disassociated with the birthing process, in 
>fact I found myself more attuned to it because I wasn't focusing on the

>pain. It was a really interesting experience for me, and surprised me 
>that I wasn't feeling the pain in the same way, the tightenings were 
>real, I felt my baby descend, I felt my baby kick, I felt and 
>experienced more in that birth that I ever had, and it wasn't through 
>mindless or mindful distraction, rather a state of being. During this 
>particular pregnancy I had a wonderful midwife who really helped me to 
>work on myself emotionally and helped me to come to terms with many 
>stressful events that were happening at the time. Thank goodness she 
>did, because by the time I was ready to birth, I was able to totally 
>surrender to the process. Maybe that was why I experienced a pain free 
>birth, or maybe it wasn't? But the interesting point I wanted to make 
>was that I naturally put myself in a hypnotic state - with no guidance 
>from anyone! So it made me ask the question, if it is possible for a 
>woman to do that, then what does it take for her body to surrender and 
>resppond in a way that does not involve the use of pain. If I was to 
>have a fourth child, it would be interesting to see if I would have the

>same experience! Any other stories out there? I personally see this as 
>a very important role of the carer/educator/supporter to be a friend 
>and listen to these women, help reframe things in their lives, and if 
>there is a need for more specialised psychological care, then at least 
>they are aware neough to be able to refer that woman on, otherwise no 
>one would even know, had their 'minds,' not even been acknowledged. It 
>is too easy to discount theories about pain and women in labour 
>(because a man came up with the idea!) without asking the question - 
>'how does that happen?' Lots to think about
>Tracey
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrea 
>Robertson
>Sent: Friday, 31 October 2003 1:34 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>S

RE: [ozmidwifery] high head at term

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

We were just talking about this at our Birthtalk meeting last night. One
of the girls mentioned that her baby hadn't dropped until labour and
I've heard of other women who's babies hadn't dropped until second stage
of labour. According to what I've read and heard anecdotally it happens
more often in second or subsequent labours than first time. There is no
reason why this woman's obstetrician has to hurry her into a
c-section... They should at least give her a chance to go into labour
for her's and the baby's sake. Chances are she is a 10 month mumma if
she is still carrying high at 40+ weeks but that brings with it a whole
new set of pressures.

Sonia, I know when a woman is carrying breech she tends to carry high...
This happened with me... My baby was breech at 38 weeks but then after
an acupuncture session turned head down and dropped right into my
pelvis. I was prepared to have a vaginal breech birth but not in
hospital... too much intervention and I knew they'd try and undermine my
efforts. As it turned out, I had another caesarean but for totally
different reasons. It is so hard to look at what has happened in
hindsight isn't it?

Blessings,

Cas.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Annalise
Wesley
Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2003 7:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] high head at term


Hi there everyone,
I have a friend who is a primip with a high head at 40+4 weeks.  The 
obstetrician is pressuring her to book in for a caesar.  She is
absolutely 
shattered at the thought of this and at the very least wants to attempt 
labour, preferably naturally.  Any inspriational success stories (of
vaginal 
primip births with high head at term),  or words of wisdom that I could 
share with her, would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Linda

_
Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to  
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Another unec. C-section...

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

"At 6cms dilatation it is not normal for a baby's heartrate to be
dipping with EACH contraction in a normal labour."

They told me that the heartrate only dipped to between 90 and 100 after
epidural admin. It could be possible that had she shifted her weight or
lay on her side that this may have stabilised but we'll never know now.
Basically, this SOB was looking for any excuse to section her. He then
had the gawl to say to her that he thought her pelvis might be too
small. She had had a posterior labour so that would account for labour
being longer than average but also her progress whas inhibited by hourly
vaginal exams just as she was getting comfortable and in a rhythm. At
least she knows it was not her fault. I really hate it how obs have this
knack of making a woman feel like there is something wrong with them.

Gotta go and put Liam to bed

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


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[ozmidwifery] Another unec. C-section...

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi all!

Well, last night we got a call that our neice Sarah was in labour and at
the hospital after having 2 days of back labour (early labour for 18
hours and active for 12 according to the hospital). She was exhausted so
she had an epidural and the rest you can guess. The thing is, she had
dilated to six cm but doc comes and in and says it has been too long and
that the baby's heartrate was dipping a bit with each contraction (which
is normal is it not?) and it "might be in distress in a few hours time"
(doc's bedtime my thought was). So, he coerced them into having the
c-section on the offchance that the baby "might be in distress" later.
Maybe she would have been too tired to keep going much longer I don't
know but I do know an unnecessary c-section when I hear words like that.
Apparently the attending midwife at that point was pissed off and
rightly so. Sarah's mum says Sarah was quite traumatised by the whole
thing.

I am going to visit her and her new baby girl tomorrow to see how she's
doing. That said, I cannot stress enough the importance of giving a new
mother a listening ear after an experience like that. Mothers need to
debrief..their feelings are important and they often get sidelined by
family and friends because everyone focuses on the baby.

Cheers,

Cas

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff
Sent: Monday, 20 October 2003 6:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald


Hey Nigel!
Welcome back!
- Original Message -
From: "Selangor Maternity Centre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald


> Hi All,
>
> Thanks Lynne whereas I agree with the main theme of the 
> inappropriateness
of
> such a trial it is the randomisation that appears to be the major 
> sticking point.
>
> I would welcome a comparative trial as it would show, in my opinion
without
> a shadow of a doubt the benefits of vaginal birth over an over 
> employed obstetric intervention.
>
> The trial would instantly be flawed but I fear like the breech trial 
> would become a singular point of reference to all wishing to simply 
> advise women rather than empower women through information.
>
> We know the flaws in the touted breech trial were the location and 
> quality of staff chosen to assist in womens pursuence of vaginal 
> breech. The lack
of
> familiarity or experience itself was somewhat prohibitive. Not much is
made
> of this in the official critiques of this now perceived benchmark 
> study
and
> as a result women are misinformed and disempowered through a lack of 
> information.
>
> In the case for elective caesareans this would be the same, a unit 
> where
the
> randomisation of women to that extent could occur is not very likely 
> to be an actively birthing women centered unit? Now if we can only 
> remove the messy hit or miss act of conception by a controlled 
> trialbut then there is sometimes a lack of experience in
this
> department too for many...LOL
>
>
> Love and Peace
> Nigel
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lynne Staff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2003 09:45
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald
>
>
> "there is this trial which gives you a 50-50 chance of totally 
> avoiding
all
> this pain"
> A father-to-be I saw the other day, whose wife has had 2 caesareans 
> (and
is
> having the devil of a time finding anyone to support her for a planned

> vaginal birth), made the very pertinent point that 'natural' (read
vaginal)
> birth is ALWAYS portrayed as the worst pain a woman can ever have - 
> too terrible to contemplate, unbearable and totally avoidable, while 
> the portrayal of caesarean birth is ALWAYS pain-free, peaceful, smiles

> all round.etc
>
> Should publish some photos/stories of infected wounds, blood loss, how
women
> vomit when their uterus is pulled outside their abdominal cavity, 
> because
it
> is easier to suture, the trouble they have accessing their babies 
> because
of
> the physical limitation of spinals and post-op pain (although that is 
> becoming such an art that it is very 'manageable' nowadays), babies 
> with lacerations on their face or buttocks, babies on oxygen, 
> sometimes for a week, and the separation that goes with thatas you

> can see this is a sore point with me.
>
> This trial disturbs me greatly for many reasons - but it's not just 
> the trial (although if the findings are that women like it better, 
> that it is
as
> safe), then God help us! The wholehearted embracing of the findings of

> the term breech trial (which scares the living daylights out of me) 
> will pale into significance compared to this (and the findings from 
> the term breech trial will be no doubt used to substantiate the 
> rational

RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I'm 
happy to move on from this OT discussion. I've had a hell of a week with my 
neice's botched up birth and all and don't really have the energy to argue the 
point at the moment.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn 
  KleidonSent: Saturday, 25 October 2003 11:10 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
  ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial
  Cas:
   
  I think the woman concerned was simply trying to 
  state how well recovered she was physically. I was horrified at her driving 
  home from hospital at 5 days post birth - have to admit I couldn't have done 
  that, the driving I mean, I was a fruit loop  behind the wheel for a 
  few weeks after my births (probably still am 22 yrs later just more aware in 
  that vulnerable period??).
   
  marilyn
   
   
  
- Original Message ----- 
    From: 
    Wayne 
    and Caroline McCullough 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:17 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial

Ummm... I mean't no judgement here just making an observation about 
priorities... I personally think it is very sad to go back to work 2 weeks 
after the birth of your baby no matter how you are recovering but I realise 
some would have to... it was just the way it was said, as if it was a great 
accomplishment (isn't birth and motherhood a great accomplishment we should 
relish too?) to go back to work so soon. Maybe I'm just reading too much 
into the statement... I'll stop now before I put my foot even deeper down my 
throat... : ) NO offence intended... I support all 
choice!
 
cheers,
 
Cas.
 
(who went back to work on the birthcare reform campaign 4 weeks after 
birth : ) )
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jen 
  SempleSent: Friday, 24 October 2003 4:22 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
  ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial
  I know it's a little of topic, but I just wanted to respond to the 
  scentence below...
   
  While I personally can't imagine going back to work 2 YEARS after my 
  babies are born (assuming I have the choice), I think it's really 
  important that we don't judge individuals based on their choices.
   
  One of the hardest things about birth politics for me is the 
  polarisation... doctor vs. midwife, "natural" birth vs. elective 
  caesar/epidural, etc.  It's so sad, cause we all want the same 
  thing CHOICE (which women who want one-to-one midwifery care are being 
  denied).
   
  In solidarity (thanks Justine),
   
  Jen
  
  (fancy 
thinking your priority is to go back to work 2 weeks after a babyis 
born! Gotta wonder what hormones were or were not working there) 
  
  
  
  Yahoo! Personals- New people, new 
  possibilities. FREE for a limited 
time!

RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Ummm... I mean't no judgement here just making an observation about 
priorities... I personally think it is very sad to go back to work 2 weeks after 
the birth of your baby no matter how you are recovering but I realise some would 
have to... it was just the way it was said, as if it was a great accomplishment 
(isn't birth and motherhood a great accomplishment we should relish too?) to go 
back to work so soon. Maybe I'm just reading too much into the statement... I'll 
stop now before I put my foot even deeper down my throat... : ) NO offence 
intended... I support all choice!
 
cheers,
 
Cas.
 
(who 
went back to work on the birthcare reform campaign 4 weeks after birth : ) 
)
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jen 
  SempleSent: Friday, 24 October 2003 4:22 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
  ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial
  I know it's a little of topic, but I just wanted to respond to the 
  scentence below...
   
  While I personally can't imagine going back to work 2 YEARS after my 
  babies are born (assuming I have the choice), I think it's really important 
  that we don't judge individuals based on their choices.
   
  One of the hardest things about birth politics for me is the 
  polarisation... doctor vs. midwife, "natural" birth vs. elective 
  caesar/epidural, etc.  It's so sad, cause we all want the same thing 
  CHOICE (which women who want one-to-one midwifery care are being 
denied).
   
  In solidarity (thanks Justine),
   
  Jen
  
  (fancy 
thinking your priority is to go back to work 2 weeks after a babyis 
born! Gotta wonder what hormones were or were not working there) 
  
  
  
  Yahoo! Personals- New people, new possibilities. 
  FREE for a limited time!

RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Wow! That was eye openning Caroline! There are two issues that stand out
to me... One is: women are not educated on the effects of drugs on their
babies and two: there is still a perception that women want, beg for,
must have a caesarean and the doctors are holding back. If that is the
case then the medical establishment has managed to royaly screw up
women's perceptions of birth these past 30 odd years. How are we
supposed to counteract that?

In many ways I am really glad that my first caesarean was as horrendous
as it was because otherwise I wouldn't have gone down this road at all.
While we have women saying: "well my caesar went well and I'm okay"
(fancy thinking your priority is to go back to work 2 weeks after a baby
is born! Gotta wonder what hormones were or were not working there) we
don't have that many talking opennly about their negative experiences
because they don't get listened to. At least that part is starting to
change. In my case nearly everything went wrong... Failed
induction...emergency caesarean...inadequate anaesthetic... Knocked
unconsious, difficulty bondingpost-op infection PND Post
Traumatic Stress. We need to get women's stories out there.

Onward and upward...

Cas

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


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RE: [ozmidwifery] A few questions.

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Sonia,

I only just now read your birth story... This has been a tough week for
me birthwise because I've just seen the devastation on my neice's face
after her "coerced" c-section but somehow I've just got to press on. 

What happened to you is horrible and I can understand that the doctors
would be scare-mongering more than usual but if I were you I'd take the
time to look at the research thoroughly then talk over your situation
with both midwives (homebirth midwives would be good) and medical
professionals. You might want to have a word with Ted Weaver at Salangor
in Nambour, Qld. Lynne, who's on this list works there and they take a
lot of women who have had previous c-sections and not just one.

Make sure you give your body time to adequately heal, that way if you
change your mind about VBAC (yes you can VBAC with a classical scar but
the risks are slightly higher) you will be giving yourself the best
chance at success (regardless of how you birth, you'll still need time
to heal).

On another note, and I don't want to seem callous cause I know you don't
feel like suing your doctor now but you may change your mind later on.
It was his fault (even if accidental) and he has insurance to help pay
for things like that, insurance money which could help you if you have
to find a specialist in another State to have your next baby. Just don't
rule it out is all I'm saying.

One of the main reasons why so many doctors prefer c-sections is because
they don't get sued but sometimes I think they need to be. They need a
wakeup call to tell them we've had enough of them saying c-sections are
safer than vaginal births, of cutting up women unnecessarily, of
stuffing up births... Sorry Sonia, I'm just so emotional about all this
today... Not meaning to imply any of the above should be directed at
you. I've had 2 c-sections myself and I know how hard it is to make
decisions about intervention.

Thank you for sharing your story

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and S*
Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] A few questions.


Hello all,
  I guess that most of you will now be aquainted with my
story so I was hoping that you could answer a couple of questions.

I have had two obstetricians tell me that I should not/must not have
anymore babes.


When I sought the second opinion ( which was just a few weeks ago)  I
was told by the ob. that where the scars on my uterus meet  ie at the
junction of the 'T', there is increased weakness and therein lies a
greater chance of UR in late pregnancy and/or labour.

He said that even if I made it safely to 36 weeks and had an elective
c.section  there would  still be the possibility of that whopping, big
venous sinus  being in the way again. He suggested that history could
repeat itself.

He went on to say that if I were to get pregnant again he would
'ideally' like me to move to my closest capital city and live within 5
minutes of a major hospital. He said, " Sonia, why would you want to do
that to yourself? Is another pregnancy worth the risk?" I was so blown
away by the terror he was implanting that any research that I had done
regarding UR went sailing straight out of my head.

I know that I will never be able to VBAC.
I just can't accept that having another babe is not an option anymore
and that I'm not even a candidate for an elective c.section.

So, my questions are :

1.  While disregarding the dramatics, do you think that the advice given
was sound or was it the mere product of an ob. covering himself?

2.  If the later applies,  does anyone know of an ob. or specialist
surgeon that is a little braver and would be willing to give me an
opinion which is not based on the number of children that I already have
and not one of fear?

I will travel interstate if I have to.
I'd appreciate any advice.

With love and many thanks,
Sonia.  (SAS)











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RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Any study of this nature is bound to be deeply flawed for the reasons
you state Lynne. There would also be a lot of bias attached to this kind
of a study because any centre willing to participate would already have
a leaning towards intervention and caesarean section or they would find
the whole idea unethical and would not participate as a result. For
instance, if they underwent such a study here, a place like Salangor is
unlikely to participate is it? 

When I saw Brave New World in high school I thought it was disgusting
that natural childbirth was such a foreign concept. But can you now see
that happening in X years? I can and it scares me.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff
Sent: Monday, 20 October 2003 6:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald


We know the flaws in the touted breech trial were the location and
quality
> of staff chosen to assist in womens pursuence of vaginal breech. The 
> lack
of
> familiarity or experience itself was somewhat prohibitive. Not much is
made
> of this in the official critiques of this now perceived benchmark 
> study
and
> as a result women are misinformed and disempowered through a lack of 
> information.
You have raised an interesting point here - let's just say the trial did
go ahead and suppose women were randomised to either group. I wonder
what the "standard" care would be for women randomised into the vaginal
birth group? How and who would define what that would be? Would it be
evidence-based? Woman-centred? Come from the exixting policies within
each unit? Or is this proposed for one hospital only, rather than
multicentre? And what information would be available to women about
this?"If you are randomised to the caesarean group, then your care will
includeIf you are randomised into the vaginal birth group, then your
care will include. A caesarean is so controlled - and someone is
'doing the birth' - not the woman (sorry to all those out there who have
chosen caesarean for whatever reason on this list, this is not meant to
insult, but for the purpose of RCTs, randomisation and control of
variables are of the essence, so to speak). How can one put such control
on women who will labour in their own individual ways and who are the
birthdoers? Are they all to have epidurals? Are they able to be up and
about? How are the researchers going to work these little foibles out?
- Original Message -
From: "Selangor Maternity Centre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald


> Hi All,
>
> Thanks Lynne whereas I agree with the main theme of the 
> inappropriateness
of
> such a trial it is the randomisation that appears to be the major 
> sticking point.
>
> I would welcome a comparative trial as it would show, in my opinion
without
> a shadow of a doubt the benefits of vaginal birth over an over 
> employed obstetric intervention.
>
> The trial would instantly be flawed but I fear like the breech trial 
> would become a singular point of reference to all wishing to simply 
> advise women rather than empower women through information.
>
> We know the flaws in the touted breech trial were the location and 
> quality of staff chosen to assist in womens pursuence of vaginal 
> breech. The lack
of
> familiarity or experience itself was somewhat prohibitive. Not much is
made
> of this in the official critiques of this now perceived benchmark 
> study
and
> as a result women are misinformed and disempowered through a lack of 
> information.
>
> In the case for elective caesareans this would be the same, a unit 
> where
the
> randomisation of women to that extent could occur is not very likely 
> to be an actively birthing women centered unit? Now if we can only 
> remove the messy hit or miss act of conception by a controlled 
> trialbut then there is sometimes a lack of experience in
this
> department too for many...LOL
>
>
> Love and Peace
> Nigel
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lynne Staff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2003 09:45
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald
>
>
> "there is this trial which gives you a 50-50 chance of totally 
> avoiding
all
> this pain"
> A father-to-be I saw the other day, whose wife has had 2 caesareans 
> (and
is
> having the devil of a time finding anyone to support her for a planned

> vaginal birth), made the very pertinent point that 'natural' (read
vaginal)
> birth is ALWAYS portrayed as the worst pain a woman can ever have - 
> too terrible to contemplate, unbearable and totally avoidable, while 
> the portrayal of caesarean birth is ALWAYS pain-free, peaceful, smiles

> all round.etc
>
> Should publish some photos/stories of infected wounds, blood loss

RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Lynne, this is so true and especially so for certain religious groups.
For instance, As a Christian I was brought up believing that labour was
a curse becaue Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden. When I was pregnant
with Daniel I found out that this was a false interpretation of the
scripture with "pain" actually meaning "work". Basically, the story goes
that God told Eve labour would be hard work not a living hell but
somehow the idea of pain took hold! Sadly, many women still think of
labour this way, (even my mother who had one entirely pain free, drug
free birth) and sadly, they see a caesarean as a way to avoid this
"curse". 

Strange though it may seem, this thinking permeates our Western culture.
Another point that exacerbates this is that we don't share stories and
we don't birth in communities anymore. Women used to birth surrounded by
the other women in their lives. We take off for the hospital with bag in
hand. Our mothers birthed in hospitals and jumped through whatever
ridiculous hoops the doctors made them jump through and many came out of
it having had very undignified and disempowering experiences thinking
that was just the way things were.

I don't know how we can change this perception when so few women
actually get to experience a totally natural delivery. Even if induced a
woman still considers her labour "natural" and thus thinks it hurts to
bejeebus. I think books like the one Sarah Buckley is currently working
on will help alter that perception but it will take a lot of information
campaigning to change a paradigm that has existed for several
generations.

This SMH article has deeply disturbed me and yet, many normal average
people would wonder what all the fuss is about because they see
caesareans as normal and pain free. I guess we just have to keep
chipping away a the block and hope that someone listens and exposes
these trials for what they are... Nazi experiments!

Feeling quite hot under the collar...

Cas.

Ps: I still have pain from my scar and epidural after 5.5 months! That's
not exactly pain free is it?

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff
Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2003 9:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald


"there is this trial which gives you a 50-50 chance of totally avoiding
all this pain" A father-to-be I saw the other day, whose wife
has had 2 caesareans (and is having the devil of a time finding anyone
to support her for a planned vaginal birth), made the very pertinent
point that 'natural' (read vaginal) birth is ALWAYS portrayed as the
worst pain a woman can ever have - too terrible to contemplate,
unbearable and totally avoidable, while the portrayal of caesarean birth
is ALWAYS pain-free, peaceful, smiles all round.etc

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RE: [ozmidwifery] trauma & birth stress

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



If 
anyone is interested in a seminar on birth trauma, please contact Ursula Yee at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or Jenny 
Gamble at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Both are 
based in Brisbane.
 
cheers
 
Cas

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julie 
ClarkeSent: Friday, 17 October 2003 2:56 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] trauma & 
birth stress

  
  Hi
  I’d be interested in 
  your comments on what subjects have been taught in the Bmid and what subjects you feel you would have liked / 
  needed more on?
  Thanks
  Julie
   
  
  Julie 
  Clarke CBE
  Childbirth 
  and Parenting Educator
  ACE 
  Grad-Dip Supervisor
  NACE 
  Advanced Educator and Trainer
   
  Transition 
  into Parenthood
  9 
  Withybrook Pl
  Sylvania 
  NSW 2224.
  T. 
  (02) 9544 6441
  F. 
  (02) 9544 9257
  Mobile 
  0401 2655 30
  email:  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Amanda & Kevin 
  GommersSent: Friday, 17 
  October 2003 1:50 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] trauma & 
  birth stress
   
  
  Jen,
  
  I'm a 1st yr student at ACU.  
  Don't know if this is so relevant, but one of my FTJ's had an awful experience 
  when her 1st son was born - he was diagnosed very quickly with Downs Syndrome, 
  and she felt that the midwives didn't know how to cope with this, and left her 
  totally alone.  This gave her a very negative perspective on her birthing 
  experience. She is very keen to pass this information on to new midwife 
  students so that they learn what the woman goes through.  Already I have 
  investigated the possibility of her coming in to talk to our group next 
  year.
  
   
  
  Amanda
  

- Original Message - 


From: Jen Semple 


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Sent: 
Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:18 PM

Subject: 
[ozmidwifery] trauma & birth stress

 

Cas,

 

What a valuable thing your group was 
able to contribute to those mid. 
students!

 

I'm a 2nd year BMid student in 
Melbourne & while we have touched on trauma & birth stress, we 
haven't heard it from the persective of the individual & her 
experience.

 

Any idea if there's such a group in 
Melbourne who might be interested?

 

Cheers, JenWayne and Caroline McCullough 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

  We did a talk for a bunch of 
  midwifery students on PTSD at Griffith Unilast Friday and some of them 
  were really shocked at the stories weshared. It was a good talk and 
  they seemed to get the 
  picture.Cheers,Cas.www.casmccullough.com[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 



Yahoo! 
Search- Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Joanne,

I have a link to them on my webpage but their direct address is:
http://www.tabs.org.nz/

If you want to contact Ursula Yee who is running the new support group
here in Australia her email is:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

We did a talk for a bunch of midwifery students on PTSD at Griffith Uni
last Friday and some of them were really shocked at the stories we
shared. It was a good talk and they seemed to get the picture.

Cheers,

Cas.
www.casmccullough.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mrs Joanne M
Fisher
Sent: Monday, 13 October 2003 9:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?


Dear Cas, 

Do you have the website address for the NZ group TABS A (Trauma and
Birth Stress).  Thanks. Cheers, Joanne

- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne and Caroline McCullough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?


> Sonia, you are very welcome to tell your story... I am not a health 
> professional either but they put up with me : ). Anyway, a fellow 
> birther and friend of mine has started up a national Birth Trauma 
> Support Group which is linked to the NZ group TABS A(Trauma and Birth
> Stress) so please contact me off list if you would like to chat 
> further about what happened to you. You are not alone.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Cas.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and S*
> Sent: Sunday, 12 October 2003 7:07 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?
> 
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> May I introduce myself firstly by telling you up front that I am not a

> midwife, doula or obstetric professional.  I was however a registered 
> nurse,  have had five babes and have plenty of questions and thoughts 
> regarding birth. A friend of mine who lectures in midwifery suggested 
> this list as a good place to be. I had a hideous birth experience in 
> January (the chance of it happening again is supposed to be greater 
> then 1 in 1,000,000)  and though I do not wish to sue my ob,  I still 
> need some answers that he can't / won't give me. But before I launch 
> into my story I thought I should check it out with you guys first to 
> see if you are happy to have me around. I will understand if you think

> that this is an inappropriate place for me to be.
> 
> TIA,   Sonia.
> 
> PS.  I am an Australian and I was a member of the Ican list.  I left
it
> because I really needed local  'talk'.   KWIM?
> 
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> 
> --
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RE: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Sonia, you are very welcome to tell your story... I am not a health
professional either but they put up with me : ). Anyway, a fellow
birther and friend of mine has started up a national Birth Trauma
Support Group which is linked to the NZ group TABS A(Trauma and Birth
Stress) so please contact me off list if you would like to chat further
about what happened to you. You are not alone.

Cheers,

Cas.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of *G and S*
Sent: Sunday, 12 October 2003 7:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?


Greetings.

May I introduce myself firstly by telling you up front that I am not a
midwife, doula or obstetric professional.  I was however a registered
nurse,  have had five babes and have plenty of questions and thoughts
regarding birth. A friend of mine who lectures in midwifery suggested
this list as a good place to be. I had a hideous birth experience in
January (the chance of it happening again is supposed to be greater then
1 in 1,000,000)  and though I do not wish to sue my ob,  I still need
some answers that he can't / won't give me. But before I launch into my
story I thought I should check it out with you guys first to see if you
are happy to have me around. I will understand if you think that this is
an inappropriate place for me to be.

TIA,   Sonia.

PS.  I am an Australian and I was a member of the Ican list.  I left it
because I really needed local  'talk'.   KWIM?

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RE: [ozmidwifery] who is really there for women ? long

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



OMG. That is 
disgusting. I agree with Justine. Free standing birth centres are a must. They 
may have cont. of care in NZ but they still have high intervention rates. In the 
Netherlands however, they have birthing hotels for women who don't want to birth 
at their home and their C-section rate is only 12 per cent (as of 2000 
data).
 
I'm thinking next 
baby I will go and book myself into the Sheraton : ).
 
So sorry you and 
your clients had that horrible experience Jan. When are these obs going to 
learn? We had one ob up here suggest that women's rights should be overalled if 
they refuse a C-sect. The suggestion is appalling, not least because it goes against 
basic human rights but because if a woman refuses intervention when it is 
needed (as sometimes it is) it is an indication that there is a lack 
of support and trust...the very things we are fighting to establish with 
NMAP.
 
Soldier 
on...
 
cheers,
 
Cas.
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Breech and women's rights

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



There 
was a case not long ago when a woman called Julie Philips from Stradbroke Island 
was told by the public hospital that she would be booked in for a caesar. The 
refused to do a vaginal breech birth. She went and found an experienced 
homebirth midwife and had the baby perfectly at home with a hands off breech 
delivery. We got some press coverage after we leaked the story to the media and 
David Malloy responded that women who wanted a vaginal breech birth were 
"selfish". There was another lady who had seen the media coverage and tried for 
a vaginal breech but ended up giving in under pressure when she was in labour. 
She was quite traumatised by her treatment in hospital as a result. This is what 
women are up against in hospitals!
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, 10 October 2003 2:45 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Breech and women's rightsIn a message dated 9/10/03 7:11:28 PM AUS Eastern 
  Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Hi all,Nearly a year since I was last on the list. Lots of 
lovely babies born and auni degree on the way!I have a question tho' 
about women with breech babies in 2003.If a women presents at a hospital 
labouring with a breech baby, does shehave the right to decline a 
c/section?I understand the risks involved re 
experienced/inexperienced practitioners,but bottom line, what would 
happen if she refuses the c/section?Looking forward to your 
responses,SueHi Sue, great to hear from youthere is 
  a wonderful story in the 'Personal Matters' column of 'Midwifery Matters' - 
  newsletter of the NSW Midwives Association, written by 'Joelle 
  Amouroux-Huntertitled "Its a Matter of Choice"...its her personal journey 
  of choosing a vaginal breech birth against the barrage of threats and 
  intimidation for exercising her right to choose to give birth rather than be 
  cut in half!! Well worth a read. Power to the woman...yours in 
  reforming midwifery,Tina 
Pettigrew.

[ozmidwifery] Weight Watcher's Magazine article

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I was 
feeling unusually motivated this morning so I went to the newsagents and bought 
a copy of weightwatchers magazine then headed for the gym for a good workout. 
Well, to my great surprise there was a small article on caesareans which was 
very woman-friendly. It said that babies born by caesarean are at higher risk of 
allergies etc etc and that one in five Australian women give birth this way and 
that this is because of obs fear of litigation amongst a couple of other 
things... I thought it was because most women have badly shaped pelvises, can't 
cope with labour and have babies with big heads? Go figure : 
).
 
Have a 
great day1
 
cheers 
a slightly fitter Cas. : )
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary 
  MurphySent: Thursday, 9 October 2003 10:50 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Looking 
  for continuity of care
  Contact director of Midwifery,Lesley Kuliukas at Community Midwifery 
  Programe W.A. [EMAIL PROTECTED],  MM
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Vance 
& Edwina 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:36 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Looking for 
continuity of care

Dear List,
 
I am looking for a continuity of care model of 
midwifery that is established and successful and whose midwives would not 
mind me having a look and peer shadowing one (or more) of them.  I 
would appreciate anyone who thinks they can help me contacting me off 
list.  I have a time limit of until 17/10 to get the details worked out 
so I can get the funding to peer shadow someone. I hope to influence my 
workplace towards better continuity from my experience.
 
Please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 
Thanks, Edwina (I am prepared to go 
interstate) 

   

RE: [ozmidwifery] birth stories project

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Dear 
List,
 
 I am sorry I accidentally sent this to the list instead of Lynne. 
Please disregard
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne and 
  Caroline McCulloughSent: Friday, 3 October 2003 9:20 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] birth stories project
  Hi 
  Lynne,
   
  I 
  have just had a conversation with Cesca about the birth stories project you, 
  Sarah and Cesca are working on. I am feeling a bit inspired and would like to 
  draft up a publicity plan for this project if that's okay with you. I 
  also promised you a release form for stories. Will work on that next week and 
  will email it to you or bring to the next MC meeting.
   
  Hope 
  you are well.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Cas.
   
   
  Cas McCullough
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.casmccullough.com
   

[ozmidwifery] birth stories project

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hi 
Lynne,
 
I have 
just had a conversation with Cesca about the birth stories project you, Sarah 
and Cesca are working on. I am feeling a bit inspired and would like to draft up 
a publicity plan for this project if that's okay with you. I also promised 
you a release form for stories. Will work on that next week and will email it to 
you or bring to the next MC meeting.
 
Hope 
you are well.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Media releases from ACMI - Labour Pain

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

I remember this being discussed on Sunrise (Channel 7) and the thought
of not having drugs was ridiculed by viewers emailing in. It seemed this
release backfired (because the media just wanted to make a
sensationalist story out of what this midwife said) a bit in that the
general consensus seemed to be that if you don't want or have drugs you
are crazy (one woman even wrote in saying "you try giving birth to a
potroast without painkillers!" Very sad state of affairs indeed.

What are your thoughts, Barb?

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara
Vernon
Sent: Tuesday, 16 September 2003 3:10 PM
To: Ozmid Ozmid
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Media releases from ACMI - Labour Pain


MEDIA RELEASE   Wednesday 3 September 2003

'NO RAINBOW WITHOUT RAIN: NO BABY WITHOUT PAIN!'

'Epidural makes you bored at the most beautiful time of your life', says
Dutch midwife of 25 years experience, Ms Beatrijis Smulders.

Speaking to a national meeting of midwives from across Australia today,
Ms Smulders said that women in the Netherlands expect the pain of labour
to be a major challenge, like any other woman does.  The difference is
that they don't want or use pain relief like epidural because they and
their carers know that you keep the birth safe by having pain in
labour.'

The Netherlands has among the lowest rates of maternal and infant death
in
the developed world.   It also has the lowest rates of medical
intervention
in childbirth.

'The safest way to have your baby is by having labour pain', Dutch
midwife Beatrijis Smulders told a national meeting of Australian
midwives today. 'Your task as a woman is to have a strong labour', Ms
Smulders said. 'Midwives work to help women be strong in themselves and
to embrace the pain of labour as a normal and healthy part of bringing a
new human being into the world.

'It is normal for women to have moments during their labour when they
feel fearful.  So be fearful for a while but don't try to control it.
Then your body takes over and your baby is born.'

In the Netherlands, the vast majority of women give birth in the care of
a midwife, who services are free to the woman.  Only women who have a
medical problem have an obstetrician, says Ms Smulders.  'And when the
woman needs an obstetrician it is because something is wrong'.

If you are going to take the responsibility for a safe birth you should
take the responsibility for the pain.

MEDIA CONTACT via Dr Barbara Vernon 0438 855 529


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[ozmidwifery] Saturday Courier Mail double page spread

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Just 
wanted to let you all know there was a fabulous double page spread in the 
Saturday CM by Leane Edmistone. Leane is a fairly green journo and very young 
and did not have a great understanding of the issues when we first approached 
her about birthcare reform but she seems to have handle on it now. She 
should be congratulated for her stories. They are simply excellent and great 
publicity for the birthcare reform campaign. If you would like to write a letter 
to the editor about these stories You can send a letter to the editor by 
emailing [EMAIL PROTECTED].
 
Here 
is the main story from the spread featuring our MC Qld president Bruce Teakle 
...
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
Courier MailSAT 13 SEP 2003, 
Page 10  to 11 Doctor shortage sparks panic for pregnant women 
No wonder the birth 
rate is declining. Rising insurance costs are making it harder then ever to find 
an obstetrician. Leanne Edmistone reportsSusana and 
Kirk Boaldin's excitement at learning they were expecting their first child was 
quickly tempered by growing panic at being unable to find a private 
obstetrician.
The young Bulimba couple 
had almost worked their way through two lists of practitioners provided by their 
private health insurer before having any success, and by then Mrs Boaldin said 
she wasn't fussy about who she ended up with. 
 ``We must have phoned 
around 20 (practices) and they kept saying we're booked out, we're booked out, 
we're not available . . . pretty much as soon as I got one that was available I 
just took it because I thought my chances of finding another one were pretty 
limited,'' Mrs Boaldin, now 10 weeks' pregnant, said. 
 ``(At one stage) I said to 
my husband he'll have to study up pretty quick!'' 
 Fortunately she likes her 
new obstetrician Dr Glenda McLaren, who only recently returned to work after 
taking time off for health reasons, and who is also the Royal Australian and New 
Zealand College of Obstetrics and Gynaecology Queensland chairwoman. 
 Dr McLaren said experiences 
such as Mrs Boaldin's were too common. 
 She said the choices 
available to pregnant women were rapidly decreasing and the future was not 
looking healthy for the private or public sector.Lifestyle flexibility and 
the crippling cost of medical indemnity insurance were the main reasons 
obstetricians were retiring from delivering babies, most to concentrate on 
gynaecology. 
 Obstetricians this week 
received IBNR (incurred but not reported) tax bills of up to $130,000 from the 
Federal Government, payable over the next 10 years. 
 The cash is to be used for 
medical mistake claims made up until 2000 that have not been settled by United 
Medical Protection.These factors were also a major deterrent to attracting 
new recruits to the speciality. 
 At least 25 per cent of 
doctors training in obstetrics said they did not plan to deliver babies when 
they graduated. 
 Dr McLaren said those who 
did stay in private practice would have no choice but to pass the costs on to 
patients, much of which would not be covered by health insurers. 
 Today's average gap of 
$1500-$2000 could rise by the thousands, she said, adding that some Brisbane 
doctors were already charging up to $3000 gap. 
 ``We're already seeing 
privately insured women booking into the public system because they can't afford 
the gap, and potentially that number will increase as the gap costs increase,'' 
Dr McLaren said. 
 ``And the public system 
can't cope, they are already swamped . . . obstetricians aren't just leaving the 
private sector, they're leaving public hospitals as well.'' 
 Most Australian births occur in hospitals -- 70 per cent in the public 
sector. 
 'We must have phoned around 
20 (practices) and they kept saying we're booked out' - Susana Boaldin 
 Queensland Health figures 
revealed 33,521 babies were born in state hospitals in 2001-2002, 35,986 in 
2000-2001 and 36,318 in 2000-1999. The decline most likely reflected the fall 
in birthing rates. 
 The average cost to the 
public system of a vaginal delivery without complications was $2408, rising to 
$4009 for a vaginal delivery with multiple complications. 
 A caesarean without 
complications costs about $4670 rising to $7181 for a caesarean with multiple 
complications. 
 Workforce shortages and 
insurance concerns also have depleted the ranks of midwives. The Australian 
College of Midwifery estimated 1400 positions are unable to be filled 
nationally. 
 And the situation is 
expected to worsen in the next three years, as midwives leave the profession 
faster than new students are trained. 
 The college's Queensland 
spokeswoman said there were about 550 midwives in Queensland and 90 per cent 
worked in hospitals, more than half of these public. 
 ``There is an absolute 
shortage in rural and remote areas, but most of the cities will have no trouble 
filling positions,'' she said. 
 ``Some (country) areas 
don't have birthing services at all, women driving 300km or 
more to 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Term Breech Trial Critique--long

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



The following was 
sent to me last year. We used Leilah's critique to help us prepare for an 
interview on Brisbane Extra about a woman who was refused a natural delivery at 
a public hospital in Brisbane and opted for a homebirth. Baby born with no 
dramas whatsoever! Was a bit scandalous but we came out looking like the voices 
of reason thanks to Sarah Buckley (our resident expert and GP in Qld 
MC).
 
Hope this 
helps...
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
***
hi folks, on one of my lists, the Hannah trial 
came up- the "cesarean forall" paper that has made breech babies be born 
under the knife. I wrote thislast year to address it. passing it on to my 
other lists too, feel free toshare it if you like. by the way, Mary Hannah 
(one of the co-authors) readthis- Gloria Lemay passed it on. Mary became 
QUITE defensive. heh heh 
heh...Leilah--- The Hannah 
Study: A Breach of Reason    
  This Birth Love Column by Leilah McCracken 
appeared in Issue 25.5, June25, 2001 of the OBCNEWS.The Hannah 
Study: A Breach of ReasonThe Hannah study (Lancet, 2000), the large, 
multicenter trial that foundthat breech babies are best born by elective 
cesarean versus hospitalvaginal birth, has eliminated hospital vaginal 
breech births in manyregions. And this is just heartbreaking, because this 
study does not makesense in so many ways.All of the studied vaginal 
births were medically managed- with a full 64.7%of the women having their 
births induced or augmented with drugs, 46.3%having epidurals, and 22.4% of 
the women having their membranes artificiallyruptured (AROM). It is no 
wonder that the women attempting vaginal birthshad labor difficulties- all 
of these interventions are anomalous to thenormal birth process: induction 
drugs create fetal distress and abnormallabor patterns (as well as extreme 
maternal pain); epidurals retard thenormal progress of labor, and create low 
maternal blood pressure and fetaldistress- ushering in even more dangerous 
interventions; AROM causes thebaby to go into odd positions, diminishes the 
baby¹s instinctive biologicalapproach to descent, and greatly increases the 
chance of cord prolapse(possibly resulting in death- now did the babies in 
the study who died intheir vaginal breech births die because their mothers¹ 
physicians broketheir bags of waters?- the study, of course, does not 
say).The women attempting hospital vaginal breech births were also used 
asteaching fodder for medical students. So create a mental image of 
thesewomen in the Hannah trial: rigorously observed because they are part of 
ahuge medical trial; induced or ³augmented² by powerful drugs; confined 
fromnormal, healthy movement by monitor straps and tubes; most likely 
deniedfood and drink; medical students ³observing² them (and their 
cervicaldilation) intensively; their birth sensations and instincts deadened 
byepidural and other painkilling drugs. Not surprisingly, about half of 
thewomen attempting vaginal breech births were sectioned for ³failure 
toprogress²: the very nature of these hospital vaginal births precluded 
easy,smooth births from happening. Even in cephalic (head down) 
presentations,the medically managed mode of birth makes giving birth 
normally verydifficult for many women. But a woman trying to give birth 
breech?... withextra fear added to the already inhibitive stew of iatrogenic 
birthdifficulties?... normal birth may well become impossible.This 
study is just so frustrating to read through, because it is solelyrooted in 
the belief of the rightness of medically managed birth, and themost basic 
medical tenet of the female body being an accident waiting tohappen (an 
accident requiring medical manipulations to correct). There is noprovision 
for births that are not medically managed; there is no mention ofbirths that 
happen outside of the hospital setting. I personally knowseveral women who 
had their breech babies born at home- and withoutexception, their births 
were smooth, safe, gentle. At home there were nomonitor straps, knives, or 
drugs- and no scrutinizing researchers or doctorsto create the bad outcomes 
that the Hannah study talks about- the badoutcomes engendered by the fear, 
paranoia, and interventions of the birthinstitutions and their practitioners 
themselves.It is heartbreaking to me that this flawed, myopic, 
aggressive study willdictate in no uncertain terms how many babies will be 
born for many years-through their mothers¹ abdominal wounds. And most 
surprisingly of all- thereis no mention at all in the study of how dangerous 
cesareans are; howinvasive they are; how they put mothers and babies at 
risks that no vaginalbirth could engender. Nowhere is it discussed that 
cesareans make women upto 16 times more likely to die, or their babies more 
likely to suffer fromthe dangerous respiratory distress syndrome. Nowhere is 
it mentioned thatbreech babies are 5 times more likely to be accidentally 
cut by the sc

RE: [ozmidwifery] Term Breech Trial

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



From 
memory, there was about a 64% induction rate alone in the TBT and I'm fairly 
sure all in Western hospitals had epidurals. There were no Birth Centre, 
hands-free or homebirths to compare with. All of the women were delivered in 
lithomy and all had intervention. Leilah McCraken from the Birthlove website has 
done a comprehensive analysis of the TBT which is worth 
reading.
 
cheers,
 
Cas

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne 
  StaffSent: Saturday, 13 September 2003 8:05 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Term 
  Breech Trial
  I imagine that the women were in the lithotomy 
  position. I haven't read it for a while - can anyone tell me the rate of 
  epidurals the women had? Whether they were all hooked up to CTGs? The 
  experience of the 'accoucheurs', whether the women were able to be upright and 
  active? Whether they had amniotomies? How often they were disturbed in labour? 
  How many people (not chosen by the woman to be there) were present for 
  the birth? Whether there were time limits imposed on the women? I could go on 
  and on.There are so many confounding factors in any study that involves 
  humans, thus encoaching on human rights. Time to evolve new research 
  paradigms methinks, to become evidence based for humanity's sake!
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] uti's, pph

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Sheena...Re: UTI...

Firstly congratulations! And secondly, a close friend of mine's baby boy
had a UTI at about 6 weeks of age. He was in intensive care for a week.
The doctors told her it was extremely rare for a baby boy to get a UTI
but it had something to do with a weakness in the valve between bladder
and kidneys. They had to do some tests to rule out kidney damage which
was traumatic for baby and mother (he was an IVF baby after 4 years
trying too). He was given AB as well and as far as I know is now fine.
There was a chance he would have to continue on AB if the valve between
Kidney and bladder wasn't functioning as it should.

If you want to know more I can try and find out...

Cheers,

Cas.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] CD in support of Birthcare reform

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Ummm, well in the song 'Letter to my unborn child' the lyrics in the end
are a wish for a gentle birth (I had in mind a homebirth) "May we give
to you a gentle birth with smiling faces everywhere, and may you bring
some warmth to this cold place when people see your angel face". That
song was about my own philosophical change in direction regarding
birthing. Have a listen to the download on the website and see what you
think. Hope that helps.

Blessings,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2003 7:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Claire Saxby
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CD in support of Birthcare reform


Hi Cas
Are there any homebirths on the CD?
We are looking for resources for Homebirth Awareness Week coming up mid
- October. Jan



On 8/9/03 10:07 PM, "Wayne and Caroline McCullough"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
> 
> Just wanted to let you know that the website for my CD 'Stranger's 
> City' is up and running and my CDs will be available for sale next 
> week. On the inside cover I have the following statement: "Cas 
> McCullough supports the right of women to choose one-to-one midwifery 
> care" and the web address for Maternity Coalition. I plan on sending 
> this CD to our Qld Premier with a letter attached outlining why I put 
> it together. Hopefully, it will get some airplay as well.
> 
> Also, 50 cents from each CD sold will be donated to Birthtalk. This 
> wonderful support group in Brisbane is run by 3 amazing mothers who 
> give of their time to help women like me recover from traumatic birth 
> experiences and prepare for future birth experiences. They have had 
> some fantastic successes in helping women have better birth 
> experiences and they spend many hours on the phone and with women at 
> their meetings with no reimbursement for their costs. 50 cents doesn't

> sound like a lot but my production costs were very high and at least 
> we may be able to raise enough for them to help pay for phone calls 
> and books that they loan women through their library (all personal 
> copies at the moment)... every little bit counts. Hopefully, if I sell

> a zillion of these we can make a real difference. I am also offering a

> deal to other groups who may want to sell the CDs at a retail rate of 
> up to $15 each (the 50 cents for Birthtalk comes out of my share).
> 
> If any groups would like to sell the CD as a fundraiser for their 
> group, I am offering the following deals:
> 
> If a group or individual buys 10 or more CDs at a time they can have 
> them at the wholesale rate of $7.50 each and mark them up to resell. 
> (postage will be added to this at cost)
> 
> If a group wants to sell the CDs but does not want to buy them from me

> prior to sale, they will cost $10 each.
> 
> If anyone buys a copy from me at a meeting (such as HMA or Maternity
> Coalition) they will cost $10. If I have to mail CDs to buyers it will

> cost $15 to allow for postage and handling (within Australia).
> 
> There is an MP3 of one of my songs, 'Letter to my unborn child' on the

> website and lyrics to many of my songs. These can be downloaded for 
> free for personal use.
> 
> Anyway, you can check out my website at www.casmccullough.com. I hope 
> you like it! This little project has taken a year and half for me to 
> complete and I am hoping to earn enough from sales of this CD to 
> record a full-length LP version in the next year or so.
> 
> In solidaritycheers
> 
> Cas.
> 
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> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] 3rd degree tear and C/S

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hey, they'll offer a repeat CSection just 
for being pregnant... they don't need an excuse. Disgusting isn't it! 

 
Cas.
 

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
VeronicaSent: Wednesday, 25 June 2003 4:26 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 3rd degree tear 
and C/S

  Hi all,
  I wanted to know 
  weather it is common place for women who have had a 3rd degree tear to be 
  offered an elective C/S for thier next birth.  Today I was working with a 
  midwifery student and we did a beautiful birth with a women who was having her 
  first babe. Unfortunately she had a 2nd degree tear that needed attending 
  to.  The resident that was on came and sutured her but then we had to 
  call the registrar because she was unsure of what she was doing.  The 
  registrar had to take the sutures out and in doing this the tear extended to a 
  3rd degree tear.  Afterwards, I was reading the notes and talking to 
  the midwife who had taken over the care of the women and the registrar had 
  offered the women a rpt C/S or an elective episiotomy for her next 
  birth.  I wanted to know if there was any research to back up this 
  because I was pretty upset at the thought of this women having to have a C/S 
  after birthing so fantasically.  
  Veronica

[ozmidwifery] CD in support of Birthcare reform

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi everyone!

Just wanted to let you know that the website for my CD 'Stranger's City'
is up and running and my CDs will be available for sale next week. On
the inside cover I have the following statement: "Cas McCullough
supports the right of women to choose one-to-one midwifery care" and the
web address for Maternity Coalition. I plan on sending this CD to our
Qld Premier with a letter attached outlining why I put it together.
Hopefully, it will get some airplay as well.

Also, 50 cents from each CD sold will be donated to Birthtalk. This
wonderful support group in Brisbane is run by 3 amazing mothers who give
of their time to help women like me recover from traumatic birth
experiences and prepare for future birth experiences. They have had some
fantastic successes in helping women have better birth experiences and
they spend many hours on the phone and with women at their meetings with
no reimbursement for their costs. 50 cents doesn't sound like a lot but
my production costs were very high and at least we may be able to raise
enough for them to help pay for phone calls and books that they loan
women through their library (all personal copies at the moment)... every
little bit counts. Hopefully, if I sell a zillion of these we can make a
real difference. I am also offering a deal to other groups who may want
to sell the CDs at a retail rate of up to $15 each (the 50 cents for
Birthtalk comes out of my share).
 
If any groups would like to sell the CD as a fundraiser for their group,
I am offering the following deals:
 
If a group or individual buys 10 or more CDs at a time they can have
them at the wholesale rate of $7.50 each and mark them up to resell.
(postage will be added to this at cost)
 
If a group wants to sell the CDs but does not want to buy them from me
prior to sale, they will cost $10 each.
 
If anyone buys a copy from me at a meeting (such as HMA or Maternity
Coalition) they will cost $10. If I have to mail CDs to buyers it will
cost $15 to allow for postage and handling (within Australia).
 
There is an MP3 of one of my songs, 'Letter to my unborn child' on the
website and lyrics to many of my songs. These can be downloaded for free
for personal use.
 
Anyway, you can check out my website at www.casmccullough.com. I hope
you like it! This little project has taken a year and half for me to
complete and I am hoping to earn enough from sales of this CD to record
a full-length LP version in the next year or so.
 
In solidaritycheers 
 
Cas.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: induction/augmentation following SROM

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hi 
Edwina,
 
The 
book by Henci Goer "The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth" has excellent 
research-based info on induction/augmentation and SROM. It was my bible when 
dealing with my obstetrician. It also explains the rationale behind why doctors 
prefer to augment (the Irish school of Birth Management) and limit labours to a 
certain time frame. Personally, I find this practice disgusting! It just adds 
more pressure to perform when women need to be inside themselves and not worried 
about pleasing someone else.
 
Hope 
this helps.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough
 
www.casmccullough.com

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vance & 
  EdwinaSent: Friday, 5 September 2003 6:46 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  induction/augmentation following SROM
  Dear Listers,
   
  Can anyone refer me to any research arguing 
  against inducing women who have not gone into labour within hours of 
  SROM.  I looked after a lady today who had SROM at 0755 but had not 
  experienced any contractions.  At 0830 the doctor decided (without either 
  of us having as yet reviewed the lady - she was still at home) that if she was 
  not in labour by lunchtime then she would need induction.  I was polite 
  but obvious in my disapproval and the doctor acknowledged my disapproval but 
  stated that we had to give the woman the option.  
   
  I gave the woman the option but added that any 
  interference with nature increased the risks of further intervention.  I 
  told the woman not to make a decision yet but to think about it and then sent 
  her home!  When the doctor asked about her I told her that I thought she 
  would establish better at home where she would be more relaxed (I didn't say 
  "and away from prying hands" but I thought it!!!).  The doctor extended 
  her time limit to 1400 (generous eh?).  The woman returned in established 
  labour at 1345!
   
  It is really hard as in our unit the women have 
  been seeing the same doctor throughout pregnancy and so have developed a trust 
  in them.  We (midwives) are strangers that don't always agree with their 
  trusted GP!  Because of this the doctors often get their way (not 
  necessarily the woman centered way).  If I can circulate some literature 
  recommending at least 24 hours after SROM before interfering perhaps I may 
  change some ideas.  It is only one particular doctor and she says she 
  doesn't want the women labouring on too long as they will get tired and won't 
  be able to push.  I think she (the doctor) wants to be sure of sleep that 
  night!
   
  Any ideas?  Cheers,  
Edwina

RE: [ozmidwifery] Every little bit counts...

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Kathy!

Birthtalk is situated in Brisbane, Queensland. It is run by three women,
Deb, Melissa and Karen. They can be contacted at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have put info about their mission etc on my website as I am going to
raise money for Birthtalk with the CD I am releasing very soon. My
website is up and running but needs a little extra work to make it look
just right. The address is www.casmccullough.com if you want to check it
out.

Cheers,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy
McCarthy-Bushby
Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2003 9:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Every little bit counts...


Dear Cas,
What a wonderful outcome. It just goes to show what great and balanced
support and referral to an appropriate resource can do. Every little bit
counts and makes a huge difference to those women who we take the time
to listen to, provide access to information and suppport their
decisions. Every little bit counts. well done to all concerned. I would
like to hear more about where Birthtalk is situated. Do they have a
website? Cheers kathy

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[ozmidwifery] Every little bit counts...

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Last 
night I got a phone call seeking a referral for a Doula (my midwife) and had a 
lovely chat to a potential VBAC woman who didn't have a friggin' clue. She was 
so scared and misinformed and we talked about alot of things before I referred 
her onto the support group that really helped me in my birthing journey, 
Birthtalk. I think she was just glad for a listening ear and a bit of 
acknowledgement of what she was dealing with.
 
Today 
I called my friend Deb who helps run Birthtalk and she told me that a girl who 
had attended just one of our meetings several months ago (another VBAC--previous 
C-Section for breech) went away and did a bunch of research and then had a 
wonderful homebirth (something she never would have even considered before 
coming along to Birthtalk). I was so chuffed about this because I remember this 
scared little girl and how she didn't really understand or know anything about 
the maternal health system and her rights etc etc...
 
Whenever we plant a seed for a tree someone else will sit under, we are 
doing an amazing thing. I hope you all find this encouraging as I have and I 
congratulate the girls from Birthtalk for their wonderful support group which 
has made such a difference in women's lives!
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

RE: [ozmidwifery] A Current Affair tonight

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Watched the interview tonight and thought it was very anti-cosleeping... 
as usual a boring medico with the usual "risk risk risk" attitude.  I 
thought your point about babies dying in cots was a good one but they kinda 
glossed over it a bit. Well done Pinky!
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough

[ozmidwifery] Wendy Edmond Resigning

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi all! Did you hear the good news? Our esteemed and oh-so knowledgeable
and wise Health Minister here in Qld has decided to call it quits after
our next State election (which is due later this year or early next
year). Shoulda seen me dancing in the kitchen when I heard that!

Have a great day!

Cheers,

Cas.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] questions regarding cs states.

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Jo, 
re. Netherland's stats... I obtained the most recent stats available for an 
article I wrote for Natural Parenting and their rate has gone up from 9.8 per 
cent in 1998 to 12 per cent in 2000. These were obtained by the Netherland's 
statistical bureau. This figure is still within the recommended limits set by 
the World Health Organisation and is a far cry from the stats our own country 
has. The WHO organisation website may contain information on Australia's 
caesarean rate compared to other countries but further digging may be 
required.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  

RE: [ozmidwifery] internet sites (long)

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

This list is excellent. I am currently setting up my website for the CD
I'm about to release (hopefully October) and will be putting a few of
these on my links page. Thanks!

Cheers,

Cas McCullough

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RE: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Yeah, and the baby had blood streaks on it's head... Is that normal for
a vaginal birth?

By the way, I sent a letter to TV week (as they had done an article on
the episode last week). Perhaps others could do the same. 

I am glad to hear that someone got to homebirth because of Hot Property.
May be we can instigate a few more things like this... Recently we had
coverage on Brisbane Extra that was about a girl who went to a homebirth
midwife for a vaginal breech birth because the hospital refused to do it
and since that story we have heard that hospital staff are being a bit
more pc about offering women the choice (even if it is a barbaric style
delivery with feet in the air etc) since.

Let's keep the ball rolling...

Cheers,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sheena
Johnson
Sent: Friday, 25 July 2003 8:38 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters


Did you notice Jo that she had her baby leaning up on a bale of hay and
not flat on her back? We were discussing this today in our lecture. We
also decided she didn't have a placenta!!! Sheena

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RE: [ozmidwifery] co -sleeping

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I have 
co-slept with my new bub since the day he was born. No one in the hospital 
complained about me feeding bub in bed or snuggling up for sleep and it was a 
tiny little bed too! I just tucked him in and made sure he wouldn't fall out. In 
our bed we often have the baby, our 3 year old  and my husband and I and 
sometimes the cat at the end of the bed. My husband often camps out on the floor 
because of lack of space : ).  There have been a couple of occaisions where 
I've woken up to find the quilt partially over bub's head but I think that I 
instinctively woke up to pull it back. We know when things are wrong... that's 
one of the wonders of intuition. Now I always drop the quilt down to baby level 
and make sure my head is at his head level... that alleviated the quilt over 
head problem. Other than that, all of us have slept beautifully and we are all 
alive too (although hubby is just barely alive : ) ).
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pinky 
  McKaySent: Wednesday, 23 July 2003 8:08 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] co 
  -sleeping
  Five alive and all co-slept too! I just realised 
  today that I dont actually personally know anyone who has NEVER taken their 
  children into their bed - my neighbour once took her whining bull terrier 
  puppy into her bed, and shes a super houseproud lady!
  Pinky
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Same here... Watched out of curiousity and was so glad to see a birth
not lying down and submissive. I guess the character is a strong woman
and they wanted to portray that strength...pity they don't think all
women are that strong! Apparently they had a midwife consulting on how
it was done (read in TV Week). I'd like to know who that was and shake
her hand. There needs to be more births like that on TV and in Movies.
We should all write letters to the producers to let them know it was
appreciated.

Cheers,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cheryl LHK
Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2003 8:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters


Jo, it's not my normal viewing either - but heard that there was going
to be 
birth - and I thought it was handled really well (for the media).  She
acted 
out the labour well, it didn't occur in five minutes and looked like
hard 
work - which even for the most wonderful birth, most labours are hard
work 
at least for a few minutes.

It irritates me how on TV/movies etc birth is either of two ways.

1.  Lady breathing slowly, looking serene, not a drop of sweat - then we

suddenly have (oh no) an 'emergency' and we have to 
PUUUSSSHHH  One or two of them - and out bub
ops!

2.  Women in labour totally out of control, screaming hysterically -
must be 
a scary event!!

Just venting

Cheryl

>From: "JoFromOz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:42:03 +0800
>
>Hi all... Just finished watching McLeods Daughters tonight and was very

>happy to see the main character (can't remember her name! not my usual
>viewing) had her baby in a barn with her sister and the baby's father 
>in attendance.  I was very proud :)  I loved how she said that women 
>have been having babies in the field for centuries!  All it needed to 
>top it off was a breastfeeding scene ;)  But at least I didn't see any 
>bottles lying around, hehe
>
>Jo
>
>
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RE: [ozmidwifery] pregnant soon after birth!

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Where 
is this woman based? Perhaps someone on this list is close enough to visit with 
her? Sounds like she needs a listening ear and a renewed perspective.  

 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jo 
  hunterSent: Thursday, 17 July 2003 5:57 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] pregnant soon 
  after birth!
  Hi all,
  I had a phone call from a woman today who is 
  seeking information and or stories from other women who have had 2 babies 
  close together. She has a 6 month old and has found out she is pregnant again. 
  She is not sure whether or not she will go ahead with the pregnancy as she 
  feels she will be unable to cope with 2 children so close.
  I was able to share my own story with her 
  (pregnant with 3rd when 2nd was 4 months old).
  I feel she's quite unsupported as a mother but 
  tells me her pregnancy, birth and parenting so far have been positive and she 
  is quite obviously in love with her bub, she has been control crying her 
  baby 'who is a terrible sleeper' and says she feels exhausted much of the 
  time (I referred her to your book Pinky).
  Does anyone have any ideas of websites, books etc 
  to help her.
  A bit lost!
  Thanks 
  Jo Hunter
  Homebirth mum to 4
  HAS Coordinator
  Innate Birth CBEducator and 
Doula

[ozmidwifery] Doctors turn against natural births for breech babies-- Courier Mail article

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



This 
is thanks to our new Qld MC branch committee member Helen Bremner we are on 
a roll lately...
 

If you 
are a Queenslander please respond with a letter to the editor [EMAIL PROTECTED]. We 
need all the support we can get! This Molloy guy doesn't know what he's in for 
by making comments like that. What a %&$*%*_(!
 
What 
he failed to mention was that all the Term Breech Trial labours were medically 
managed. Leilah McCracken critiqued the Hannah Study and said that 
 
"All of the studied vaginal births were medically managed- 
with a full 64.7%of the women having their births induced or augmented with 
drugs, 46.3%having epidurals, and 22.4% of the women having their membranes 
artificiallyruptured (AROM). It is no wonder that the women attempting 
vaginal birthshad labor 
difficulties..."
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 
 Courier Mail, 25 June, 
page 5
Doctors turn against natural births for breech babiesLeanne Edmistone  Health ReporterThis healthy 
happy baby girl was born against the odds. Stradbroke Island mum Julie 
Philips was looking forward to the natural birth of her fourth child when 
doctors discovered the baby was in breech presentation and told her she would 
need a caesarean delivery unless the baby turned. Despite all attempts 
the baby did not turn and doctors at two Brisbane hospitals told Ms Phillips 
they would not attempt a natural delivery because of risks to her baby and for 
medico-legal reasons. Distressed, Ms Philips enlisted the help of a 
midwife and at 2.20pm on Monday, after a 6 1/2 hour home birth, her 
yet-to-be-named daughter entered the world weighing a healthy 3798g. "It 
was very easy, everything went very smoothly." she said yesterday, "She's a real 
chubby bubby, she looks like her brothers."Ms Phillips's eldest son 
Namo, 6, was also a breech baby, but turned during labour and was delivered 
naturally, as were her three year old twins, Kiahn and Mali. National 
Association of Specialist Gyneacologists and Obstetricians  president Dr 
David Molloy said few doctors would perform a natural delivery of a breech baby 
and any parents pressuring doctors to do so were "selfish". Dr Mollow 
said a recent international study was stopped after two years by a medical 
ethics committee because results overwhelmingly showed breech babies born 
naturally had double the risk of serious injury compared with caesarean breech 
births.He said those results, in conjunction with the high medico-legal 
risk, had "effectively killed off vaginal breech delivery".But Ms 
Phillips said she and the midwife weighed up her own good health, the ease of 
her previous labours and the baby being "in the best possible" breech position - 
bottom first with legs extended near the face, and decided to go 
ahead."It felt like the right thing to do, the midwife was very 
experienced and there were no (personal) health reasons not toso we decided 
to have the baby naturally and I'm glad we did," she said.Dr Molloy, 
whose eldest child was a caesarean breech birth, said the head was the largest 
body part and with a normal birth, it was quickly eivident if a caesarean was 
necessary. He said because the head came last with a breech birth, there 
was a high risk it could become stuck and the umbilical cord could become 
squashed and cut oxygen to the brain, neck and jaw manipulation could result in 
bone breaks.--

RE: [ozmidwifery] increased costs for women

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Just 
as a point of interest... we paid...
 
$850 
extra for doc insurance
$350 
extra for the anaesthetist (wasn't covered by gap cover)
$96.50 
extra for the paediatrician because well babies aren't covered by insurance 
while in hospital, only those that go to NICU or SCN.
 
This 
is on top of paying for my midwife, acupuncture, the extra visits with my 
obstetrician I had to pay for my final week before Daniel was born plus the gap 
not covered by medicare for my regular visits, the sonogram that was done the 
day before his birth and the CTG that was done a few days 
prior.
 
It 
really sucks! I won't be going to see a doc at all next time if there is a next 
time! Bring on the NMAP!
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo & 
  Dean BainbridgeSent: Sunday, 22 June 2003 7:41 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] increased 
  costs for women
  "women will have to pay and are already paying 
  between $100 to $500 per pregnancy and will get higher!!"
   
  I know many women who are finding they are having 
  to pay a higher gap with private insurance each baby they have.  If there 
  is MORE increases to costs, coupled with the continued cost of insurance 
  anyway, it will become too out priced and then they will be seeking 
  alternatives...away from the private sector.    If the OBs out 
  price themselves, then women may look to other mode of care.  It would be 
  a great time to again bring to the attention of the media how wonderful it is 
  to have "your own private midwife or small group of midwives without the 
  costs" NMAP!
  Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAwww.cares-sa.org.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 
  6918birth with trust, faith & 
love...

RE: [ozmidwifery] JLY1 outcry!

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



We 
recently had a front page article on our local newspaper (in Brisbane) about 
this issue and our MC branch president was quoted saying that midwifery care is 
important to the solution, not extra doctors. The week after, a letter of mine 
was printed in the paper stating the following (minus a few extra words after 
editing):
 

"Midwivery care vital for births"
The dearth in maternity care choices has had a huge impact on my 
family.
My first baby was born by emergency caesarean due to a 
catastrophic cascade of unnecessary intervention. As a result, I endured a 
painful recovery and months of depression. 
It wasn't until I became pregnant with no. 2 that I discovered 
obstetric support for VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarean) was virtually 
non-existent. As I felt let down by obstetric care after my first baby’s birth, 
I wanted to have my next baby at the Royal Women's Birth Centre but was 
automatically excluded due to my scar. 
So, my only other option was to hire an independent midwife or 
have my baby at home unassisted. Considering the obstetric fraternity 
overestimates VBAC risks according to medical research literature, it angers me 
that women in my situation are denied access to the support they desperately 
need within our health system.
In the end, baby no. 2 was born by necessary caesarean so I am 
thankful we have access to obstetricians when we need them but rather than 
crying about the lack of doctors, the government should provide healthy pregnant 
women with one-to-one midwifery care so that those women who don't need medical 
intervention can avoid doctors altogether.
We have 
a lot of support from Labour Party members and our current goal in Qld is to get 
birthcare reform on the media agenda in force so that it gets onto the election 
agenda (later this year or early next year).
Hope the 
content of this letter helps if any of you want to draft similar 
responses.
Cheers,
Cas 
McCullough

[ozmidwifery] Midwifery care in Northern NSW

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hi 
everyone,
 
My 22 
week pregnant niece Sarah has just moved down to the Lismore area from North 
Queensland and wants to know what her options are regarding midwifery care. She 
can't afford a homebirth, although I think she would prefer this option but 
doesn't want to see an obstetrician. She is only about 21 but she knows what she 
wants and could use some supportive contacts. Please let me know if you have any 
information I can pass on.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough

RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery/birthing services Gold Coast

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Contact Claire Brassard  on 5546-7383. Claire is an excellent homebirth 
midwife and I am fairly sure she would take on someone with three previous 
caesareans. I don't have it on hand. For birth support in hospital she may want 
to contact Dierdre Bowman on 3388 8960.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carolyn 
  PettitSent: Monday, 2 June 2003 9:43 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Midwifery/birthing services Gold Coast
  Can anyone on the list provide me with 
  information about birthing services/choices in the Gold Coast Area for a woman 
  who has had 3 previous C/S and wanting a VBAC. 
  Carolyn
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] Headline - Mothers at risk: crisis warning on homebirths

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Excellent!...although the writer does make homebirth sound dangerous
rather than safe. 

I hope some on this list will write letters to the editor regarding this
article.

Another side issue of course is the fact that VBAC women are being put
at risk because they are being excluded from some birthcentres and
treated horribly in hospitals... Hence a growing number of these women
want homebirths to give themselves the best opportunity to birth
normally and naturally in a positive environment and some are doing so
unassisted because of the problems mentioned in the article. There are
also quite a few giving up and going into hospitals which is, IMHO, in
some cases, even more dangerous.

I know that if I have another it will have to be a homebirth because the
hospital system does not generally support VBA2C women even though
publications such as Effective Care in Pregnancy and Childbirth state
there are no contraindications to VBA2C if the pregnancy is normal and
the mother is healthy.

Good on you Justine and Jan.

Cheers,

Cas.


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting..

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Having just birthed 17 days past my due date 
I am finding this thread interesting. I did have another Caesarean after a 
feotal well-being test showed no amniotic fluid at 16 days past EDD and when he 
came out there was both old and new mec staining but they never suctioned him as 
the pediatrician was satisfied he did not aspirate any. Interestingly, he cried 
as soon as they got his head out of the pelvis so he was breathing air well 
straight away. 
 
With my first son, also born by caesarean 
but an emergency CS, he was covered in fresh mec. and he had some respitory 
distress 2 weeks after birth but I am not sure why. Could the MAS be related to 
the way the operation is handled perhaps or the level of shock an infant is 
exposed to at delivery (from drugs etc.)?
 
Reading this thread has also reassured me 
that we handled the situation with our second son's birth appropriately and made 
the right call.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas
 
ps: my new son Daniel did not have 
any signs of postmaturity at birth but cried real tears the day after he 
was born and seems older than his brother was at the same stage. He has also put 
on a whopping 1.5 kg in 3 weeks and is in some 00 clothes. Is this normal for an 
infant born at nearly 43 weeks? I just wonder if his growth rate is going to 
slow down at some stage. : )

  

RE: [ozmidwifery] Back again...

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Are you refering to Jon Sullivan's wife? I used to work for the Festival
when he was the Pollie.

Cheers,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of B & G
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2003 7:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Back again...


Congratulations on your birth. Enjoy your infant, they grow up too fast.
One of the organisers of Woodford's festival wife is a supporter of NMAP
and she is a pollie (and so was he at one stage) so good luck for
Woodford. It is a magical festival. Keep up BAG - there is a need for
the group.

Cheers Barb

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[ozmidwifery] Back again...

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

My little boy Daniel James McCullough was born on May 3 by (perceived
necessary) Caesarean Section.

We did up a homepage with some of the pictures from the birth and Dan's
first few days if you want to take a look. The Birth story is on there
too.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~iccoffee/daniel_homepage.html

It has been a long hard journey for me these past 10 months but boy has
it been educational and to all those on this list who told me not to go
Private... You were absolutely right... That said... towards the end I
was planning on homebirthing behind my obs back with the mw I hired for
birth support but the forces of nature proved to be against me in the
end. On the up side, I had excellent post natal care but I reckon the
ward midwives had some interesting things to say about me especially
since one of them found my placenta in the fridge in a plastic bag
(hubby forgot to take it home... Oops! : )).

If I do have another baby I will definitely be homebirthing as it seems
impossible to have a positive VBA2C birth in hospitals here. I wish I
was wrong about that. I doubt I'll have another anyway but will wait a
couple of years before thinking about that.

Anyway, I am looking forward to learning much from this list and also,
just to let you know, I will be very busy in the coming months putting
together and executing a media strategy to promote the NMAP here in Qld
before the State Election which is due for late this year or early next
year. If anyone wants any input to this and has some bright ideas or
contacts please email me privately.

Also, a group of us from the BAG (Birth Action Group) have put together
a proposal to do a forum titled "Birth in Australia-- Agony or Ecstasy"
at the Woodford Folk Festival this summer. We find out on August 31 if
our gig has been accepted into the programme. Let's hope so.

Better go and make dinner while Bub is asleep...


Cheers Cas

Mother to Liam born Feb 16, 2000, by emergency Caesarean after a cascade
of unnecessary intervention.
Mother to Daniel born by perceived necessary Caesarean May 3, 2003.

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[ozmidwifery] Signing off to prepare for birth

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I just 
wanted to thank everyone for such an informative mailing list. I have learned a 
lot over the past couple of months but am now finding I need some quiet mental 
time to reflect on my upcoming birth and spend a bit more time just being with 
my little boy until the new addition arrives.
 
I will 
be sure to sign on again after the birth and let you know how it all goes but I 
am sure Melissa will let you know how it all turns out. Hopefully 
good!
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough

RE: [ozmidwifery] Info on Rhesus negative births

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Thankyou everyone for your answers to this. I really appreciate it as I 
didn't know anything about it so it will help me provide support to those who 
face this problem, including my friend.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ken 
  WardSent: Sunday, 2 February 2003 4:45 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Info on 
  Rhesus negative births
   if your friend developed antibodies because of her blood group ie 
  she's negative and partner positive, these antibodies cross the placenta and 
  kill off the baby's red blood cells.  The baby can die, or become very 
  sick. The jaundice can be explained by this and also the early birth. Labour 
  and vaginal birth could easily stress these babies.  Sometimes caesareans 
  are necessary.    Maureen.
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] Gyno?

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Darren, that's great. Belief in oneself is the most important thing I 
reckon...that's what I am still working on but am getting there (with only 6 to 
10 weeks to go : ) ).
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren 
  SunnSent: Saturday, 1 February 2003 9:47 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Gyno?
  Thanks to everyone who helped with my 
  inquiry.
  Caroline, My friend contacted Paul Bretz and is 
  contacting Anne McLeod-Taylor.
  She also has setup an interview with the 
  Birth-centre.
   
  She is now feeling more confident and this is 
  important to regain her confidence in her own abilities.
   
  Thanks again,
   
  Darren

[ozmidwifery] Info on Rhesus negative births

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



A friend of mine had 
her baby by C-Section this week due to problems resulting from her being RH 
negative and her husband being RH positive. She was 37 weeks and the baby has 
been in NICU since late last night because of severe jaundice (my guess is 
that's from the operation). She has not been able to hold her baby or breastfeed 
yet and has had massive headaches, poor thing but I think she is expressing milk 
so that's a good sign. This is her second baby but I think she also had a 
C-Section with the first.
 
We did talk a lot 
about her birthing options before the baby was born but I am not educated enough 
on Rhesus factors to know whether or not her C-Section and the separation from 
her baby was indeed necessary. Does anyone know more about this? I am not going 
to go and tell her now that it was not necessary if that was the case but I 
would like to know for my own personal knowledge.
 
Am planning on 
calling her tomorrow to see how she is getting on (and how baby is getting on). 
She is at the Mater Mothers Hospital in Brisbane.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough

[ozmidwifery] Birth Trauma Support Groups

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I have 
recently come into contact with other women via the essentialbaby website, some 
of them very new mothers, who have had traumatic or stressful births and are 
feeling left out, alone, and depressed because of problems surrounding their 
experiences.
 
One 
lady who gave birth by emergency C-Sect. just over a week ago has contacted me 
from Mount Gambier, South Australia and could really use someone to talk to who 
is not so far away (I am in Brisbane). She was separated from her baby for 
several hours and has been unable to breastfeed but seems to be bonding with the 
baby okay now. She just seems to need a sympathetic ear and someone (or a group 
of people) who can help her come to terms with the fallout from her baby's birth 
(induced at 39 weeks for PE, Induct. failed, foetal distress, C-Sect, 
Separation, No BF). If anyone has any information about support groups that deal 
with birth trauma, or maybe even PND in this area, could you please email 
me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] asap. 

 
Also, 
I would like to put a database together of support groups that deal with this 
from all around Australia if possible so if you know of any organisations or 
groups that are there to help women debrief about their birth experiences please 
email me the location of the group, contact person and 
information. Once I have the 
info I will distribute it to the list and to relevant 
websites.
 
Many 
thanks,
 
Cas 
McCullough
 
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Gyno?

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



FYI 
Anne, Paul is my obgyn and I have already given his contact details to 
Darren.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Anne 
  ClarkeSent: Friday, 31 January 2003 7:59 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Gyno?
  Dear Darren,
   
  The two obstetricians in Brisbane that I know would support her decisions 
  would be:
   
  Paul Bretz and Carol Portman
   
  Paul works on the southside, sorry don't have his contact but I am sure 
  he is in the yellow pages.
   
  However, Carol is on the northside (if she wants a woman).  Carol is 
  not in the yellow pages but sees her private clients at her rooms in the Royal 
  Women's Hospital.  You need to contact the maternity outpatients she can 
  ring 36368111 and ask for antenatal clinic and they will give her the 
  information.
   
  Good luck,
  Anne Clarke
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Darren Sunn 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:59 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Gyno?

Ok,
in response I may have phrased my email in a 
misleading manner, for that I apologise.
 
My friend has chosen to seek the services of a 
Gyno, and asked me if I could help. 
I didn't know of any as I am homebirth father 
who hails the assistance of traditional midwives.
 
But I agreed to ask on her behalf.
Of course I offered her information and books 
regarding the benefits of Midwives as primary caregivers (even a little hard 
sale tatics here and there).
But at the end of the day it is her decision 
what she chooses and how she wants to birth not mine.
 
I offer her my full support 
regardless.
 
 
 
Darren

[ozmidwifery] RE: out of pocket expenses & new VBAC forum

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I am 
paying my obgyn an extra $850 and the gap between medicare fees and what my 
doctor actually charges per visit (about $15 extra). Everything else is covered 
by medicare or my health insurance. I spend on average around 15 to 30 minutes 
in his office but then I have a lot to discuss with him at present regarding my 
birthplan. My first visit was about 1.5 hours (highly unusual I must say). I 
figure if I have to wait up to an hour for my appointment, others can wait too! 
On the other hand, my midwife visits have lasted in excess of 2.5 hours each 
time.
 
Anyway, I wanted to draw everyone's attention to a new forum on the www.essentialbaby.com.au website for 
VBACs. Some pretty awful things were being said by C-Sect advocates so I 
requested a new forum that would be safe for VBACers. They took my request on 
board and created a new discussion board. Today was the first day this board was 
up and already there are several questions by women who really want to know what 
their options are and what they should take into account when trying to make an 
informed choice. Most of these women are in the mainstream medical system and 
need encouragement, support and accurate information. Sadly many of these women 
would be freaked out at the suggestion of homebirth (especially VBAC homebirth) 
so please take this into consideration if you are anti-hospital and obgyn 
and wish to post a response to questions.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough
 
ps: I 
may yet get my homebirth : ) ... my hubby is now saying if we had the baby 
closer to the hospital he would be okay with that... so know any good hotels 
near the Mater in Brisbane that don't mind a bit of loud noise?  : 
).

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Julie 
  ClarkeSent: Thursday, 30 January 2003 4:23 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] out of 
  pocket expenses
  
  I had a woman in my 
  class last night who told me she was paying her OB 
  $5000

[ozmidwifery] Sarah Buckley Article on Ultrasound **long**

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Due to the large number of email requests I have received these past few
days I thought it prudent to just post this article in entirety to the
list.

I have really enjoyed the discussions about the good ole Pinard this
week and admire all of you for doing your best to help us women get
through labour with minimal intervention. I also wanted to share with
you that the other night at our Birthtalk meeting, Lynne Staff from
Salangor simply put her hands on my belly and told me exactly how my
baby was lying (Head down, anterior)... The smile on her face was
warming. The day before my doctor couldn't tell! I admire the craft of
midwifery so much... Makes me wish I was one.

Cheers,

Cas.




Ultrasound Scans- Cause for Concern

First published in Nexus magazine, vol9, no 6, Oct-Nov 2002, now
appearing on BirthLove. www.birthlove.com Copyright Dr Sarah Buckley.

When I was pregnant with my first baby in 1990, I decided against having
a scan. This was a rather unusual decision, as my partner and I are both
doctors and had even done pregnancy scans ourselves- rather ineptly, but
sometimes usefully- while training in GP Obstetrics a few years earlier.

What influenced me the most was my feeling that I would lose something
important as a mother if I allowed someone to test my baby. I knew that
if a minor or uncertain problem showed up (this is not uncommon), that I
would be obliged to return again and again, and that after a while, it
would feel as if my baby belonged to the system, and not to me.

In the years since then I have had three more unscanned babies, and have
read many articles and research papers about ultrasound. Nothing I have
read has made me reconsider my decision. Although ultrasound may
sometimes be useful when specific problems are suspected, my conclusion
is that it is at best ineffective and at worse dangerous when used as a
'screening tool' for every pregnant woman and her baby.

Ultrasound past and present

Ultrasound was developed during WWII to detect enemy submarines, and was
subsequently used in the steel industry. In July 1955 Glasgow surgeon
Ian Donald borrowed an industrial machine and, using beefsteaks as
controls, began to experiment with abdominal tumours which he had
removed from his patients. He discovered that different tissues gave
different patterns of 'echo', leading him to realise that ultrasound
offered a revolutionary way to look into the previously mysterious world
of the growing baby (Wagner 1995).

This new technology spread rapidly into clinical obstetrics. Commercial
machines became available in 1963 (De Crespigny 1996) and by the late
1970's ultrasound had become a routine part of obstetric care (Oakley
1986). Today, ultrasound is seen as safe and effective and scanning has
become a rite of passage for pregnant women in developed countries. Here
in Australia, it is estimated that 99% of babies are scanned at least
once in pregnancy- mostly as a routine prenatal ultrasound (RPU) at 4 to
5 months.

However, there is growing concern as to its safety and usefulness. UK
consumer activist Beverley Beech has called RPU "the biggest
uncontrolled experiment in history" (Beech 1993), and the Cochrane
Collaborative
Database- the peak scientific authority in medicine-concludes that "Šno
clear benefit in terms of a substantive outcome measure like perinatal
mortality [number of babies dying around the time of birth] can yet be
discerned to result from the routine use of ultrasound." (Neilson 1999).

This seems a very poor reward for the huge costs involved. In 1997-8,
for example, $39 million was paid by the federal government for
pregnancy scans- an enormous expense compared to $54 million for all
other obstetric medicare costs. This figure does not include the
additional costs paid by the woman herself.

In 1987, UK radiologist H.D.Meire, who had been performing pregnancy
scans for 20 years, commented, "The casual observer might be forgiven
for wondering why the medical profession is now involved in the
wholesale examination of pregnant patients with machines emanating
vastly different powers of energy which is not proven to be harmless to
obtain information which is not proven to be of any clinical value by
operators who are not certified as competent to perform the
operations."(Meire 1987). The situation today is unchanged, on every
count.

The 1999 Senate Committee report, 'Rocking the Cradle' recommended that
the cost-benefit of routine scanning, and of current ultrasound
practices, be formally assessed. Recommendations were also made to
develop guidelines for the safe use of all obstetric ultrasound, as well
as for the development of standards for the training of
ultrasonographers (see below). So far, none of these recommendations
have been implemented (Senate Committee 1999).

What is ultrasound?

The term 'ultrasound' refers to the ultra-high frequency sound

RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Plans WAS Had a win today

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Kartini,

I would be glad to share my birth plan with you but I am not quite
finished. I am trying to get it finished this week as I am beginning to
think this baby is going to come earlier than expected. It is a list and
an essay/letter of sorts. I am trying to keep it brief but have also
added notes for the doctor/hospital midwives to read if they have
concerns over my choices. I felt it necessary to back up each
contraversial point with references from the medical and birth
literature. I am giving my own midwife a two page list as she does not
need to be told to be supportive and respectful... I just know she will
be : ).

Please email me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like a
copy when I am done. 

Salut!

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kartini
Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today


Hi Cas,
I was wondering if you, or anyone else, could send me a written example
of a 
birth plan. This is a big issue in france and I would really like to
know 
how aussie women write theirs, how they go over them with their midwife
or 
doctor, how they are received ???
Is this a list like the one you write for christmas, or is it a whole 
essay/epic poem? Please show me if you have the time.
thanks a lot, Kartini



>From: "Wayne and Caroline McCullough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:13:11 +1000
>
>Hi all!
>
>Just had a major win today and had to share. I am due to VBAC in mid 
>April and I just got my obgyn to agree to no IV bung and no continuous 
>monitoring (except for 15 minutes per hour while in hospital unless 
>there is foetal distress evident from intermittent monitoring). I went 
>into my doc's office very nervous about confronting these issues and 
>ready to argue my case but he just agreed that my requests were 
>reasonable and left it at that (even though he had insisted on both of 
>these when I first talked to him)! At least now I can be sure to get 
>his written support of my birthplan so that I don't run into admin. and

>policy probs while in labour... A real weight off my mind.
>
>We are all set for the birth in April and I am loving getting to know 
>my midwife who will be with us for the labour and birth!
>
>Feeling positive, supported and encouraged...
>
>Cas.
>
---


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hi Robyn,
 
Could you please email me at the address 
below so that I have your email address? : ).
 
Cheers,
 
Caroline.

  
  -
  Would love you to email a copy to me please
   
  regards,   Robyn
  
Sarah Buckley (a doctor and a homebirth 
mum of 4) has a very informative and well refereced article about 
ultrasounds. If you want I can pass it on via email. Just email me privately 
at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if 
you would like a copy for your friend. IMHO amnios are not worth the risk 
and should not be done after 4 months gestation. They are supposed to do 
those a lot earlier if there is a high risk of problems and only in cases 
where a woman may wish to terminate the pregnancy. 
 
Chees,
 
Cas.

[ozmidwifery] FW: [HBAC] VBAC after 5 c/s

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

I just had to forward this on from my other mailing list [HBAC] on Yahoo
Groups. This just goes to show how some women are just so amazing and
how some doctors are so ignorant!

Ps: friend of mine had her first VBAC yesterday, at home with MW and DH
at 37 weeks after about 7-8 hours active labour. Baby weighed in at
7lbs. We are so proud of her!

Cheers,

Cas McCullough

-Original Message-
From: Leilah McCracken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, 23 January 2003 9:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [HBAC] VBAC after 5 c/s


Hi list- women's bodies are amazing (as are at least a few OBs). I had
to put this on my site. Leilah

---

An OB/GYN Thread that Ended in VBAC

-with thanks to Angela Horn of homebirth.org.uk. Find the original posts
from this 1996 thread beginning here-
http://forums.obgyn.net/ob-gyn-l/OBGYNL.9603/0647.html



"Would be interested in response from the list to a request presented to
me last week.

The pt is 37 y.o. G6 P5 [sixth pregnancy, fifth child] with five prior
low-transverse c/s. 1st section done for "CPD" with delivery of 4 lb
infant. 2nd section "elective" repeat. 3rd section "elective" repeat.
4th section after failed VBAC. c/s performed after 45' in second stage
with final Dx of "fetal heart rate abnormality and persistent OP" 5th
section performed after pt had experienced 24 hr of ROM [rupture of
membranes] without labor (records indicated hesitancy to attempt
induction with four prior uterine
incisions) 

She is VERY motivated to attempt VBAC. My inclination is to go for it,
but I'm not sure about augmentation (even with IUPC) if failure to
progress occurred.

I'll be anxious to hear your opinions."

Terri Rosenbaum, M.D.

==

"Terri:

I would let her attempt a VBAC, and I would augment her if necessary. I
don't know anything about your hospital and facilities, but the usual
VBAC guidelines apply.

I have always thought that most ruptures occur during the 2nd. stage of
labor. In addition, she could have a uterine rupture with augmentation
as a G5, regardless of the prior C/S history."

Patrick S. Pevoto, M.D., FACOG



"A contraindication to pitocin is a contraindication to contractions. If
you are willing to allow spontaneous contractions, then what is wrong
with oxytocin induced contractions? A contraction is a contraction. The
only diference is that you are doing something to bring about the
contraction with the oxytocin. If properly administered and watched,
there should be no more problem with pitocin induced contractions. [Note
from Leilah McCracken, site editor: what an idiot!!]

With this patient, if I were to allow her to labor or to be augmented, I
would be there with my hand on her abdomen and probably watching the
Intrauterine pressure monitor as well..

R.Daniel Braun, MD 
Clinical Professor 
Indiana U. School of Medicine



At 3:23 PM 31/3/96, R. Daniel Braun wrote:

>A contraindication to pitocin is a contraindication to contractions. If

>you are willing to allow spontaneous contractions, then what is wrong 
>with oxytocin induced contractions ? A contraction is a contraction. 
>The only diference is that you are doing something to bring about the 
>contraction with the oxytocin. If properly administered and watched, 
>there should be no more problem with pitocin induced contractions.

"But you are interfering with the normal course of events and then if
somethign goes wrong you have to accept responsibility."

>With this patient, if I were to allow her to labor or to be augmented, 
>I would be there with my hand on her abdomen and probably watching the 
>Intrauterine pressure monitor as well.

"I notice that you didn't write how you would deliver. Here she would
get an elective Vaginal Bypass and we'd really strongly try and convince
her to sign for T/L [trial of labor- TOL]."

Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse



"I would not offer this patient a trial of labor for many reasons
including liability concern."

Douglas Krell MD



"I do a lot of VBAC yet without any data to back me, I would recommend
repeat C/S in this case. She's already had a failed VBAC as well as her
fifth C/S where someone told her it was best to not labor. There's a
good chance you could prove that MD wrong, but there is also a chance
you could prove him right. Chances are she'd do fine with a VBAC, but I
think you are out on a limb if something bad happens, and bad things do
happen. Be happy with a healthy baby and do the safe thing. If you do
elect to proceed with TOL, I would give her a real TOL with pit and all.
Watch closely, stay in the hospital, probably in the room. Good luck."

Mitch Nudelman



"I would be hesitant to offer VBAC, but if patient insisted I would do
it under double setup conditions. Pitocin question same as VBAC
question- a "mild" trial of labor without pitocin if needed might not as
well even be started. A recent USC study proved VBAC after g

RE: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Andrea 
wrote:

  
  I also find that many woman and their families if given the choice, 
  choose the dopplar because they like ti hear it. The woman don't need you to 
  listen to it at all during pregnancy, They know mostly that their baby is OK 
  because they feel it move and know it is growing but they still ask to listen 
  to it and ask for it when their children, partners and parents are there. 
   
   
  I 
  was like that my first pregnancy but this time I feel a real sense of 
  freedom in trusting my body and trusting my instincts. I always found it a bit 
  distressing when the doc couldn't get a heartbeat straight 
  away.
   
  I 
  don't mind them using the doppler intermittently during labour for the reasons 
  you stated but am really glad not to have continuous monitoring due to the 
  fact this applies heat directly into the baby continuously (as does the 
  doppler but to a lesser degree). I wonder if anyone is doing a study on 
  how continuous EFM affects an unborn child in labour temperature-wise and 
  if this could cause distress! I guess it would be pretty hard to take an 
  unborn babe's temp thought wouldn't it? : ).
   
  For 
  me the doppler is the lesser of the two evils and I am really glad my doc 
  doesn't feel it is necessary to use it in my antenatal 
  visits.
   
   Cheers,
   
  Cas. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hi Rhonda,
 
Sarah Buckley (a doctor and a homebirth mum 
of 4) has a very informative and well refereced article about 
ultrasounds. If you want I can pass it on via email. Just email me privately at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] if you 
would like a copy for your friend. IMHO amnios are not worth the risk and should 
not be done after 4 months gestation. They are supposed to do those a lot 
earlier if there is a high risk of problems and only in cases where a woman may 
wish to terminate the pregnancy. 
 
Chees,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
  RhondaSent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 10:20 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win 
  today
  


  
 
I have a friend who is about 4 months pregnant - due in about June 
I think.  She was telling me today that they want her to have an 
amniosentisis to check for Downs syndrome etc...   She is 27 
yrs old and this is her first shild with no history in the family of 
disability.
Why would they want her to have a test like that done?  She is 
not high risk as far as i can tell.  the only other factor which I 
can think of and can not believe is that she is very dark skinned 
African and her husband a white Australian.
 
Anyone got any idea why the hospital would request she do 
this?
I told her of the risks that they had not mentioned.
 
Rhonda.
---Original 
Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, 
January 21, 2003 22:09:50
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 
[ozmidwifery] Had a win today
 
Duck Aviva!!
 
A pinards is the 'ear trumpet' that was 
used to listen to the baby's heart beat before the invention of 
sonicaids and monitors. I have a beautiful hand turned pinards made from 
ash. Sadly many 'modern' midwives don't have the comfidence to use 
one.
 
Sally

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Aviva 
  Sheb'a 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 
  11:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a 
  win today
  
  OK, wot's pinards? (Is it so 
  obvious I need to duck?)
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sally 
  Westbury 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:06 AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today
  
  That is fantastic! I use my pinards for all my antenatal 
  visits too, as I don't like to putelectronic gadgets near a 
  developing and sensitive babySally WestburyHomebirth 
  Midwife
   
  ---
   
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 
  6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 
10/01/03
 

  

  
  


  
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click 
  Here 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Lieve,

To be honest I very much doubt they will have any time to put the
monitor on me as I'll probably get into the shower straight away... Who
knows! But it is nice to know that I can go in there feeling confident I
won't be pressured into anything I don't want and continuous monitoring
was a big negative factor for me given that it tends to lead to repeat
C-Sects. They will use the doppler for the intermittent
monitoring...although I would prefer a stethoscope. My doctor is using a
Pinard during antenatal visits at my request.

Best wishes for your VBAC lady. See if you can get her to subscribe to
the HBAC group on Yahoo... She will find it encouraging!

Cheers,

Cas.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lieve
Huybrechts
Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 2:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today


Congratulations, questions like yours let things change.
You even can ask the midwife to listen with the doppler to the heartbeat
in stead off the monitor.

Intermittend listening to the heartbeat has proven to be safe and gives
a lot more comfort to you.

I will have this month the first mother that I can support as midwife
during VBAC in the hospital. In my neighbourhood we are not allowed as
independent midwives to support our mothers in the hospital. 

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[ozmidwifery] Had a win today

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi all!

Just had a major win today and had to share. I am due to VBAC in mid
April and I just got my obgyn to agree to no IV bung and no continuous
monitoring (except for 15 minutes per hour while in hospital unless
there is foetal distress evident from intermittent monitoring). I went
into my doc's office very nervous about confronting these issues and
ready to argue my case but he just agreed that my requests were
reasonable and left it at that (even though he had insisted on both of
these when I first talked to him)! At least now I can be sure to get his
written support of my birthplan so that I don't run into admin. and
policy probs while in labour... A real weight off my mind.

We are all set for the birth in April and I am loving getting to know my
midwife who will be with us for the labour and birth!

Feeling positive, supported and encouraged...

Cas.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC support

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi Helen,

I wish this woman lived in Brisbane so she could benefit from going to
the Birthtalk support group like I have and from wonderful midwives like
Jenny Gamble who are researching post traumatic stress after birth.

Nevertheless, see if you can get her to email the girls at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] I found their support absolutely wonderful and
even just talking on the phone helped me a great deal. In fact, I didn't
meet any of them until about 3 weeks after I had contacted them by email
but I felt like I had known one of the girls (who happens to be a
midwife) all my life from the discussions we had via phone.

Another good person for her to contact is Debby Miller who is also on
the Ozmid list. Debby has had two successful VBACs, one with an Obgyn
and one with a birthcentre midwife.

Please send big hugs from a fellow soon-to-be VBATC (Vaginal Birth After
Traumatic Caesarean).

Cheers,

Cas McCullough

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of HELEN
Sent: Friday, 17 January 2003 12:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC support


Has anyone got info on a support group for women who have had a
traumatic birth ( & caesarean) and  are contemplating a future baby?
This mothe lives in Melbourne.  She lady has been told her pelvis is too
small  (one of her measurements is 0.7cm too small), scan done sometime
after the first birth, when she was not pregnant!  She is doing lots of
research and has seen a supportive Gp & is soon to see a 2nd Obs.  I
wonder if there is a lovely midwife that would be happy to coomunicate
with her by email or phone on the
issue of CPD and future birth.   She has
been fed so much misinformation and I'm unsure of how to reassure her
further.  Her breastfeeding experience after the caesarean birth wasn't
all
that great, but there I can assist her.   Thank-you all
Helen Grainger  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[ozmidwifery] Acupuncturist infor for Adelaide

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi all,

I spoke to my acupuncturist this afternoon about someone qualified in
antenatal acupuncture and he recommended the following person:

Aaron Slape
Acupuncturist
The Centre On
7 Compton St
Adelaide 
08 8231 0105

Thought those of you in SA might like to file this info away for future
reference.

Cheers,

Cas McCullough

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RE: [ozmidwifery] re: Fellow midwife

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Dear Michael,

I know a really great homebirth midwife in Brisbane who does Doula work.
In fact she is going to be my birth support person. I don't know if she
has any vacancies that month as I know she has a homebirth in March and
then my birth in mid April but she lives in Logan too and it would be
worth giving her a call to see. Please call me on 3879 8378 if you would
like her name and number.

Cheers,

Cas McCullough

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael Hall
Sent: Monday, 13 January 2003 2:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] re: Fellow midwife


Hi Joanne,

Thank you for your kind email.  No I'm not from
Brisbane so I really don't know anybody but one friend
and my sister.  I have moved back to the East Coast
(from WA) so that my family and I: 
a/ can access services (eg health) that are not
available in the bush (despite what John Howard says).
 And ...
b/ be closer to family.

This move is especially so for our son Lachlan's
educational opportunities and the fact that we have
another child on the way due mid-March.  My wife
Nicola is booked into Logan Hospital where I have just
came on board as a casual midwife to prepare the way
(in more ways than one).  My wife Nicola does not know
anyone to be confident enough to attempt a home birth.

With our first born my wife stayed at home until we
ran out of hot water and she was ready to go to
hospital.  There the midwives examined her and
discovered her cervix was fully dilated.  Shortly
after my wife gave birth to a beautiful 3600g boy. 
Analgesia: hot water, massage and clary sage (our
doula was a homeopathic aromatherapist masseuse). 
Home in just over 36hours (had to stay due to mec
liquor).

Standards at the local hospital have since declined
with a local midwife telling me that the c/s rate was
going from 9% back up to 25% in 2002.  Time for us to
move on.  Plus we miss the shops!  We also are going
to miss our doula!  I want to be at the birth as a
father (and midwife second) so would love to find a
doula replacement.  

Talk to you soon,

Michael Hall
Midwife, nurse, husband, father
Brisbane
07 38031143 (no answering machine but I'm home every
Mon to Wed)
or 0417 058 244

From:   "Mrs joanne m fisher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Block Address  | Add to
Address Book
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Fellow midwife 
Date:   Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:18:20 +1000

Hi there,
I read with interest your email on the Ozmid List.  I
am a midwife living in Brisbane (unfortunately working
in the hospital system) and I'm not sure if you are
from here or know many people, but if you would like
to chat to a fellow midwife I can call you (I'll need
your number) or you can call me on 07 33697782, though
we do have an answering machine due to our shift work,
so you may need to leave a message.
Cheers, Joanne (Fisher). 


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- What's on at your local cinema?
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RE: [ozmidwifery] ultrasounds.

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I 
talked to my Obgyn about ultrasounds, especially the use of the dopler at my 
regular visits. He has agreed not to use it on me so long as I was happy with 
the baby's movements. I said I would get a Pinard for us to use at home and 
would bring it in for my visits and he said he would be happy to use that. Never 
once did I feel patronised so there is hope out there. 
 
My 
previous Obgyn was very careless with her use of the dopler and visual scanner. 
When I had asked not to have regular scanning she still used the dopler. Only 
later did I find out that it was worse than the visual 
scanner.
 
When I 
went in for the only scan we actually wanted the sonographer did not do the 
"heat" scans on the heart because she knew I had concerns about the amount of 
heat being generated in my baby's organs. I thought that was 
considerate.
 
So far 
I have had 2 in-surgery visual scans, 1 dopler scan (all with my previous Obgyn) 
and one sonographer scan this pregnancy and I am 27 weeks. Last pregnancy I had 
had about 14 dopler scans, 4 in-surger visual scans and 2 sonographer scans by 
the time I was 27 weeks.
 
I hope 
that you see this as progress. I feel a lot better knowing that the doc's need 
to look or listen with electronic devices has not been at the expense of my wish 
to be left alone.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Barry 
  MacGregorSent: Monday, 13 January 2003 5:18 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  ultrasounds.
  Dear all!
  I am very happy to report that more and more 
  women are questioning repeated ultrasounds and asking doctors if it is safe to 
  have them.  Naturally, the doctors say " of course it is safe" and then 
  do the just another neurotic woman eye roll.  Wonderful though that these 
  women stand up for themselves, sad though that some midwives advocate the use 
  of multiple ultrasounds and also state that they are safe.  However, with 
  more assertive women the opportunity for midwifery lead care seems brighter, 
  just a shame about those obstetric nurses, may they not be our 
  downfall.
  Love Sonja

RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: howdy

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Phew...sounds like she is really getting things off her chest and I don't 
blame her. Husbands can be difficult creatures, believe me I know, especially 
since my husband won't consent to a homebirth for completely irrational reasons 
but that is another topic...
 
Anyway, I think she is taking the right approach by taking her time to 
bring him around to her way of thinking and by doing it in such a way that he 
thinks it was all his idea... men can be funny like that. However, sounds to me 
like he is pretty misinformed about a couple of issues--especially sun damage-- 
and needs a gentle wake-up call before he himself gets skin cancer. I was never 
given sun cream as a child and ended up with huge blisters on my arm at 4 
years-old. The damage from this lack of proper skin-care has resulted in me 
having sun spots removed from my arm which is not exactly fun. I have to get my 
skin checked at least once a year to make sure that the damage I had experienced 
as a child does not end up as skin cancer. Your skin does not get used to the 
sun--it's that kind of logic that increases our skin cancer rates. There are 
non-toxic products available to help against sun damage (hats, zinc cream, big 
shirts with collars etc) and with babies' skin being so delicate they need all 
the protection they can get. Eye damage is another big problem these days. How 
many people do you know who have growths on their eyeballs due to sun damage. I 
know quite a few.
 
It 
sounds to me that Alice's husband just needs some time to adjust to being a dad. 
He's probably built up all kinds of expectations but in time he will learn that 
little Luna will do as she pleases and won't conform to anyone else's ideas of 
who she must be or how she must be... she will just be 
herself.
 
The 
pond issue will probably resolve itself. They have some time to change his mind 
about that one and as soon as little Luna crawls to the edge of any pool or body 
of water his paternal instincts will kick in and he will see the dangers for 
himself. Let's hope so anyway!
 
As for 
thinking his baby is not like other children? Well, I can only concur. My little 
one is not like anyone else's either! All children are so unique and 
special!
 
Please 
wish your friend the best in her diplomatic mission and reassure her that a lot 
of husbands are exactly the same until they see a need for action or change 
themselves. My husband thought I was overly paranoid about a few things and has 
had to endure a few "I told you so's" from me over the past few years. : ), but 
then again so have I.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Aviva 
  Sheb'aSent: Thursday, 9 January 2003 1:01 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 
  howdy
  Dear All, 
  Here's the latest from Alice. She 
  needs support not with Luna, but with her man. As I've never parented with a 
  partner, I am no expert at dealing with off the planet fathers. Any and all 
  advice welcome please!
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From alice
  To: aviva 
  Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:58 AM
  Subject: howdy
  
  
  Hi Aviva,
  Hope you're well.  I've been having a great 
  time with Luna's night time sleeping!  Proud to say that she slept from 
  10pm till 5:30am this morning - woo hoo - what a little gem!  
  
  On another note, we have a slight issue on the 
  domestic front.  As part of Jonathan's master plan for the garden, he has 
  dug a hole for a pond on the flower side of the garden (as opposed to the 
  native low-water side) and it just dawned on me that this is basically a death 
  trap for a toddler which i brought gently to his attention, merely suggesting 
  that we need to make it child safe or not at all.  And the next day 
  Jonathan said in these exact words "I have come to the conclusion with the 
  pond issue that I want to keep the pond and since it's too hard to build 
  a fence around it, we can never let Luna out of our sight and it won't be a 
  problem." This comment is clear evidence that he has absolutely no idea what 
  looking after a toddler will entail, so i have come to the conclusion that we 
  are not having a pond and now it is my challenge to find a way for Jonathan to 
  think it's his idea not to keep the pond.hmmmespecially since i will 
  be the one caring for her most of the time, and especially since it would 
  probably be when daddy is looking after her that she gets out of his sight 
  quite often, i will not have this impending danger on my doorstep every 
  day.  Sometimes he is so unrealistic i find it very frustrating, like i'm 
  the one who always has to bring him back down to earth with a hard thud.  
  Also, you know how we are going to the Rainbow Serpent festival 24-26 
  Jan?  Well, that's all cool, i'm confident everything will go relatively 
  smoothly (despite Jonathan's objections about protect

RE: [ozmidwifery] Human rights/women's rights/rigid policies

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Very 
interesting Debby!
 
I 
noted that the Mater is also a signatory to this policy. I'll be sure to point 
this out to my midwife/birth support person before we go to the 
hospital.
 
Thanks! 
 
Cas 
McCullough

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Debby 
  MSent: Tuesday, 7 January 2003 1:15 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Human 
  rights/women's rights/rigid policies
  
  
  Ladies you might want to check to see if the hospitals concerned are 
  signatories to the Women's Friendly Hospital Policy.  Although I did 
  point this policy out to RWH Brisbane who are signatories to it and the only 
  person who really applied the criteria in it was the head of midwifery 
  services who finally arranged for me the care which I wanted.  The Women's Health Nurse Practitioner Policy   
  also makes an interesting read.
  http://www.wha.asn.au/pub_women_friendly_hosp.htm

RE: [ozmidwifery] DISHEARTENED ANGRY AND ASHAMED

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Dear Sue,

Julie's suggestion is, I think, a good one. I have been in touch with an
investigative reporter for the SUNDAY show about my own birth experience
and the response has been positive. The more he hears from people like
you and women like me the more likely the issue will be launched onto
the public agenda sometime this year. If we are going to have any kind
of change, no matter how small, it has to nag at the public conscience
through media stories. If you want to share your experiences with a
sympathetic and respectful journalist please contact me privately at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and I will put you in touch with him. That goes
for anyone else out there who has specific experiences they wish to
share.

All the best Sue whatever you decide but I truly hope you stick around a
bit longer. "Every drop raises the ocean" -- Dinatopia : ).

Cheers,

Cas McCullough.







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[ozmidwifery] Acupuncturist in Adelaide?

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Hi all!

Happy NY. A friend of mine in Adelaide is pregnant with her first child
and after hearing about how much acupuncture has helped me with Morning
Sickness she wanted to know if there was any acupuncturists in the
Adelaide area who specialised in pregnant women.

Please email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you can provide
any information. It would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Caroline McCullough

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Hi 
Megan,
 
Don't 
worry I am enjoying my pregnancy (even though I still vomit occassionally). I 
have been going to Active Birth Yoga classes and to the acupuncturist for 
antenatal visits (which my doc supports) and get a great massage there. My son 
has just started to take more of an interest in the baby and keeps pointing to 
his belly button and saying "baby in there". At least this time around my blood 
pressure is fine and I feel generally good. Last time I was a very sick puppy 
(lost 10kg due to constant ms that lasted the entire pregnancy, high bp, lots of 
heartburn, pubic symph. dys.). Another great thing this time is that my 
acupuncturist has treated my pubic symphasis dysfunction and it is amazing 
because it really works. That was pretty awful last time.
 
Thanks 
for your feedback. I have done so much prep that my husband is sick of the word 
"pregnancy" and the word "birth".  I think we'll have to talk about other 
stuff over X-mas or he will go mad : ). Guess you can't help being a little 
obsessed!
 
One 
thing I wanted to ask in case anyone knows the answer... I am already leaking 
colostrum (have been since 19 weeks, am now 24 weeks) and my left breast keeps 
hurting just near the aerola. Should I be concerned about mastitis before birth? 
I keep massaging to help ease the pain but am worried about stimulating my milk 
supply further (excuse me if this sounds ignorant). Any 
suggestions?
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Larry & 
  MeganSent: Tuesday, 17 December 2002 4:42 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  mothers rights in public hospital
  Well 
  said Caroline.
  I 
  think we all want whats best for women in birth, but of course we have 
  different ideas of what that is. 
  Cas, 
  you sound like you have done oodles of preparation, and no doubt there will be 
  something in hindsight that you wished you knew. If you feel truly informed 
  and safe with your choices then that is the path you will take. Just remember 
  to take lots of time to enjoy your baby inside of you, the pregnancy is also 
  very special and we can get lost in the birth at the pregnancies expense. I 
  can suggest joining a pregnancy yoga class, surround yourself with like minded 
  people, have a belly cast done, occasional massage, I always fancied having my 
  pregnant tummy done with body art and then photographed,there is lots you can 
  do to make yourself feel good. 
   
  My 
  very best wishes to you and you family in your birth 
  journey.
  Megan
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Carolyn 
DonagheySent: Monday, 16 December 2002 11:00To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
mothers rights in public hospitalHi CarolineHaving 
done exactly what you are preparing to do now, some 3 years ago, I can share 
some of my experience.  You can always read my birth story on the CARES 
SA website www.cares-sa.org.au .(our new address 
and domain name woo hoo!).At 30 weeks, I changed obstetricians to 
someone supportive of my need for a non-interventionist birth and employed 
the services of a brilliant independent midwife.  I cleared it with the 
mids at the hospital, who all were very supportive on face value. I had a 
great labour in hospital, basically they were so short staffed that we were 
left alone most of the time.  They knew I didn't need 
them.  My biggest thing was to labour at home as long as 
possible, the best protection against any type of intervention in my book. 
 At 8 cms (my first VE) I really needed to leave home and go to 
hospital.  My midwife and I had discussed this previously, and or some 
reason that I did not understand I really needed to be in hospital to have 
this baby.  Fears existed that I didn't and still dont fully 
understand, but I know they came from my upbringing largely.  We got to 
hospital and my membranes ruptured and I went back to 5cms dilation.  I 
laboured on all fours in the shower for the entire labour, my obstetrician 
had to get down on the floor in the shower to move and anterior lip that had 
formed on my cervix - probably due to position, but a big posterior baby 
meant I couldn't get comfortable in any other position. I only had 
intermittent doppler monitoring and no IV - it just wasn't necessary.   
I had no interventions until the last moment after pushing for 1.5 hours, he 
was still posterior.  After some negotiation, which was always done 
through my midwife (fully recommend this way), we decided to agree to a 
ventouse rotation.  He rotated and shot out so quickly it was 
incredible, and although I was in stirrups it was a small compromise after 
20 hours of labour.  It was not ideal, and I know this probably needn't

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Rhonda,
 
I can understand your frustration and pain 
at not getting the birth you wanted and I can also understand your skepticism of 
the private system given what you have been through (as I can understand the 
other skeptics on this mailing list). However, I believe in myself and in my 
ability to birth and will have wonderful support from a fantastic midwife and my 
husband. 
 
Given my past experience, I cannot afford to 
be intimidated into things and have made the hospital midwife in charge of 
labour suites and my doctor very aware of this (FYI: my midwife checked my 
doctor out on the midwife grapevine and he is deemed "okay" which is 
encouraging. Are any Obs deemed better than that by midwives?). 
 
My other thought was to take in a mini tape 
recorder (which my husband can carry in his pocket) so that all conversations 
can be recorded secretly. It may not stand up in court but it could scare the 
shit out of them if they say something confrontational and are then told what 
they just said was recorded. : ).
 
I am actually in touch with an investigative 
journalist at the moment about this whole issue, so maybe we'll see an expose 
sometime next year : ). It would be just the thing to help NMAP 
along.
 
About Salangor I would love to have gone 
there but my husband once again said ít was too far away. A very good friend of 
mine birtthed there and had a wonderful birth experience in the water. Why 
aren't there any Salangor's in Brisbane? It would be s popular here 
too.
 
Anyway, thanks to those who have offered 
encouraging words... that's really what I need right now and I appreciate it; 
what I don't need to hear is that my chances of success are impossible in a 
private setting... I don't believe that for a second as I know what I am capable 
of. I also appreciate knowing about what tactics can be used to manipulate a 
labouring woman because at least I will be prepared to face it without 
fear.
 
One thing I wanted to mention is that there 
are alot of women in the private system who need help and support. I just spent 
an afternoon talking a friend of mine through the things she is likely to face 
in the private system as opposed to the public and having first hand knowlege of 
that has really helped me help other women. She had her last baby at the RBH 
with an 18 hour labour and is now going to the Mater Private because she was 
talked out of going to the RBH by her mother. She is due in February and doesn't 
want to switch now but was really grateful for the information I was able to 
give her. At least she has an advantage in that she knows what her body is 
capable of and how long a labour can go on for without any distress for mother 
or baby.
 
I mentioned a couple of names of people who 
may be able to advocate for her and I really hope she takes my advice because I 
think having a knowledgeable person by your side can be so helpful in that 
setting.
 
Thanks again for your 
feedback...
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
  RhondaSent: Sunday, 15 December 2002 9:21 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  mothers rights in public hospital
  


  
I really think he has not forgotten, more likely his 
perception is just one of "how stupid women are".
 
Well, he and my husband hit it off really badly as my hubby had 
been supportive of my wishes and then I did put in a full complaint 
about him so he knows exactly what I said to many many people about 
him.  I have quoted him to so many people and his words went back 
to him through the medical practitioners board so he had to wriggle a 
bit! 
He seemed to have got the message that what he did was wrong - 
'sort of'.
He had his solicitors advise the medical practitioners board that 
they could not reprimand him unless I had absolute proof.  So he 
must have been feeling guilty to a point.
 
I wondered why he would come to my shop and pass us looking in at 
me now after 3 yrs.  The last time he did that was when I 
innitially complained to a colegue of his and he chased me down the 
road!  (hmm!)
 
Anyway, I worked out that it was the day after my husband had a 
really really nice (thumbs up) letter published by one of his customers 
saying how professional he was and how he explained everything and 
did an outstanding job etc.  I am sure it was not coincidence that 
he walked past the next day.  A very weird man!  Makes my skin 
crawl.
 
I have writen my story and will one day conclude it - somehow I 
can't seem to find the right ending and so it sits waiting 
for something to happen in my life to finish it - maybe I will have 
a VBAC one day a

RE: [ozmidwifery] Suggestions sought

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



A 
couple of things...
 
Breast 
feeding was something I never had a problem with (despite the horrible CSect. 
etc etc.).
 
One 
thing that really helped me was watching the video produced by the then Nursing 
Mother's association. It was much better than any of the advice (sometimes 
conflicting) I got from hosiptal midwives. After watching that video attachment 
became a piece of cake.
 
Another thing, my sister had the same problem with her first daughter and 
it was revealed later that she was tongue tied and that was why she was having 
trouble attaching. It might be worth checking this out as it can be fixed. My 
sister didn't find out till after she had stopped trying to 
breast-feed.
 
Don't 
give up if you really want to breast feed! Best wishes and God 
bless,
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Debbie 
  FieldSent: Sunday, 15 December 2002 9:08 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Suggestions 
  sought
  Hi, 
  I recently had my daughter at home. A great birth 
  experience...however the breastfeeding is really testing me out. 
  I have used formula in a bottle to allow my 
  breasts to heal while also expressing to maintain my milk supply. My baby girl 
  is 17 days old and i am still having trouble with my attachment. She 
  continually adjusts to a small mouth. 
  Any suggestions. 
  deb

RE: [ozmidwifery] Transfer Times and Private Hospitals

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Yeah, 
I know about decision to inscision times and all that. I am not willing to have 
a homebirth by stealth. I love my husband and I want to keep him around! : ). 
Besides, he does have a vested interest in the brith because it is his baby too 
and he also concerned about me.
 
Today 
our midwife came over and it was great just to talk through these issues. She 
told me what she would do in a situation where we were being pressured to make a 
decision about intervention and I am happy with our contingencies.  She has 
advocated for quite a few women in both private and public hospitals and has had 
good outcomes. We also talked through about my husband's issues and eventually 
all agreed to go to hospital (but not before I am 7cm dialated). The good thing 
is that because we are going to the Mater private we are only a corridor away 
from the Mater public. If things did get nasty I would transfer to the public 
wing but I don't think it will come to that.
 
One 
thing that was mentioned I wanted to address... the hospital knows I am bringing 
my own midwife and I spoke to them about this and they are quite happy with that 
arrangement. As far as they are concerned if it helps me it helps them. What we 
have to deal with on an individual level is another story but that can happen 
anywhere. 
 
My 
midwife and I plan on asking for a meeting with the midwife who does pre-admin 
interviews so that we can review my birthplan and raise any issues prior to 
going into the hospital.
 
In 
other words, we are doing everything we can to ensure a successful and stress 
free outcome and although I know the risks of intervention are higher at a 
private hospital, they can only do something to me if I allow it and I simply 
won't allow it unless there is a very very very very good 
reason.
 
Thanks 
for your feedback.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas.
 
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Debby 
  MSent: Saturday, 14 December 2002 12:49 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Transfer 
  Times and Private Hospitals
  
  
  Caroline, 
  
  
  If it is any assistance my first VBAC occurred under the care of an 
  obstetrician in a private hospital.  He actually sounds a lot like yours 
  does ie. will to do breech VBACs.
  I was able to negotiate him around on everything I wanted including no IV 
  or bung.  The only compromise I made was on monitoring where I agreed to 
  20mins in the hour although in reality this did not happen as I refused to get 
  out of the shower - I was not hassled about this.  Like you I had a 
  midwife as a support person who was there with me under private arrangement 
  and that worked really well.  In my case it was also handy because my OB 
  knew her and trusted her judgement (Townsville is a small town) so he did 
  interfere in the support she gave me.
  VBAC in a private hospital can be done, the risk of "failure" is higher but 
  if you are strong, and you and your support team stick as close to your plan 
  as is logical, question every intervention no matter how small and explore the 
  alternatives to the interventions being suggested (eg. bath instead of 
  epidural, standing upright to delivery instead of forceps lying down) and just 
  be strong and positive you will have a very good chance.  The only other 
  thing I would say is stay at home for as long as possible.  If your 
  midwife is at home with you then you are covered for an unexpected homebirth 
  if things go more quickly than expected.
  On the surgery thing I found the same information that Justine sites.  
  The decision to incision time is rarely within the 30min timeframe recommended 
  for emergency caesareans - particularly in hospitals that do not have a 
  resident anaethetist.  In my case my emergency caesarean occurred 1hr 
  45mins after I was told my son would die if I didn't have it!!
  Debby
  
  The new MSN 8: smart spam 
  protection and 2 months FREE* -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
  Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

't because obs didn't like
the idea and so Kay felt too guilty  to do so. Inevitable ending - older
Mum, private private - emergency caesar with Kay saying the inevitable
line 'doesn't matter how... healthy baby  '

Margie


At Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:33:46 +1100, 
Julie Clarke ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>  
> This is a very interesting discussion around rights and rites. 
> Caroline I am wondering why a normal healthy pregnant woman who 
> apparently wants a natural birth would choose a doctor and a private
> hospital, when those choices imply a medical birth in a place that 
> has
> exceptionally high unnecessary medical intervention rates? Some 
> logic is
> missing here.
> As an educator I often find that normal healthy women "low risk" 
> if you
> like book into private hospitals with a very strong desire to have 
> a
> natural birth.
> In some cases I noticed them with even more commitment than some 
> birth
> centre women. Isn't that ironic!
> My heart sinks as they continue the fantasy that they may have a 
> natural
> birth and if baths are available the fantasy of even a waterbirth.
> I explain and reveal the dept of health statistics which clearly 
> show
> the current levels of medical intervention.
> But like lambs to their slaughter some of these women remain with 
> the
> flock that goes to the private system.
> Occasionally when I have spoken to staff in private hospitals they 
> just
> shrug it off saying that when women choose their doctor and their
> hospital there is an IMPLICATION that they are CONSENTING to 
> whatever
> medical treatment occurs.
> I think it's important for everyone to pull their weight towards
> "informing" women and not maintaining the conspiracy that medical 
> birth
> is normal and okay.
> We are cheating our sisters in motherhood whilst ever we support 
> doctors
> and the big business of the private health sector.
> What warms my heart is that I do hear of it everyday, where women 
> are
> being WARNED by others "Stay Out of the Private System".
> Julie Clarke
> Childbirth and Parenting Educator
> Transition into Parenthood
> 9 Withybrook Pl
> Sylvania  NSW  2224
> T. (02) 9544 6441
> F (02) 9544 9257
> M. 0401 265 530
> email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Wayne
> and
> Caroline McCullough
> Sent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 11:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital 
>  
> I am new to this group as of today but wanted to comment on this
> thread.
> My second baby is due in April, I am VBAC and we are going to a 
> private
> hospital in Brisbane (I can hear the gasps already : ) ). Anyway, 
> I am
> wondering if private "patients" can be refused treatment if they 
> do not
> consent to monitoring or IV lines. After all, what are they going 
> to do,
> throw a pregnant woman out on the street? I am taking a private
> traditional midwife with me to the hospital to provide birth 
> support and
> advocate on my behalf (the hospital is aware of this and has so 
> far been
> supportive) so hopefully this will make refusal much easier. I am 
> not
> entirely sure I can talk my doctor around before the birth, but 
> will try
> anyway. He seems pretty reasonable overall (for an obgyn anyway). 
> He's
> even agreed to deliver breech (probably the only doc in Brisbane 
> who
> still does breech deliveries, although not all that often anymore
> because most women assume breech means cut).
>  
> Please let me know if anyone has any thoughts on this.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Cas McCullough
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robyn 
> Thompson
> Sent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 7:58 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
> This is an interesting topic and really good educational programme 
> about
> rights and responsibilities would be good.
>  
> The word Policy is often used in the hospital system as a means to
> take
> control of women and make the staff feel safe from possible 
> litigation.
>  
> A Policy is not a legally binding document, it is a blanket
> statement
> for the population, written to protect the hospital and the staff. 
>  The
> women who are forced to conform to such Policies have not had any 
> hand
> in writing such documentation, their individual needs are negated.
>  
> Everyone has the right to say NO, nothing should ever be done to
> anyone
> without informed consent.  If w

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



Rhonda,
 
I am 
appalled at how they treated you. Isn't there a law against intimidating a 
labouring woman? I am lucky that I am going to the Mater private which is also 
in the same building as the public hospital. So, if they do give me problems we 
can just be wheeled down the hall or like you say, find a nice spot outside : ). 
I am so lucky to have my midwife there as well.
 
I 
can tell you one thing, if they do try to bully me or threaten me, it will be on 
the news the next day! However, I am fairly confident that won't be 
necessary.
 
Thanks for your message.
 
Cas.

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
  RhondaSent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 11:47 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  mothers rights in public hospital
  


  
 
Cas wrote - 
 
Anyway, I am wondering if private 
"patients" can be refused treatment if they do not consent to monitoring 
or IV lines. After all, what are they going to do, throw a pregnant 
woman out on the street?
 
Hi Cas, I am really laughing! 

I was told when I had refused Iv 
lines etc (as a public patient) that the only way I would get to deliver 
my baby (or get the Dr's to do anything) and not have the second c/s 
that the dr's were insisting was the only thing they would do and that 
"he" would make sure I got a dead baby - If I did not agree to it.  
Anyway, i was told I should walk out on to the street!  
Unfortunately after 24 hours of argueing in labour i gave in and did not 
have the fight to get out.  Looking back i wish I had - wouldn't 
that be priceless - the looks on their faces as you walk back out onto 
the street because they wont treat you with respect or listen to your 
wishes.
 
More women should walk back out onto 
the street - WHAT A PROTEST THAT WOULD BE!
 
HOPE ALL GOES WELL FOR YOU.
 
Regards
Rhonda.
 
---Original Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, 
December 12, 2002 23:19:26
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
 
I am new to this group as of today but wanted to comment on this 
thread. My second baby is due in April, I am VBAC and we are going 
to a private hospital in Brisbane (I can hear the gasps already : ) ). 
Anyway, I am wondering if private "patients" can be refused treatment if 
they do not consent to monitoring or IV lines. After all, what are they 
going to do, throw a pregnant woman out on the street? I am taking a 
private traditional midwife with me to the hospital to provide birth 
support and advocate on my behalf (the hospital is aware of this and has 
so far been supportive) so hopefully this will make refusal much easier. 
I am not entirely sure I can talk my doctor around before the birth, but 
will try anyway. He seems pretty reasonable overall (for an obgyn 
anyway). He's even agreed to deliver breech (probably the only doc 
in Brisbane who still does breech deliveries, although not all that 
often anymore because most women assume breech means 
cut).
 
Please let me know if anyone has any thoughts on 
this.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas McCullough

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
  Robyn ThompsonSent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 7:58 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital 
  
  This is an interesting topic and really good educational 
  programme about rights and responsibilities would be 
  good.
   
  The word Policy is often used in the hospital system as a means 
  to take control of women and make the staff feel safe from possible 
  litigation.
   
  A Policy is not a legally binding document, it is a blanket 
  statement for the population, written to protect the hospital and the 
  staff.  The women who are forced to conform to such 
  Policies have not had any hand in writing such documentation, 
  their individual needs are negated.
   
  Everyone has the right to say NO, nothing should ever be done 
  to anyone without informed consent.  If we could just make all 
  women feel confident to use this approach when they get into a 
  situation where they say and mean NO we would be empowering these 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Wayne and Caroline McCullough]

Title: Message



I am 
new to this group as of today but wanted to comment on this thread. My second 
baby is due in April, I am VBAC and we are going to a private hospital in 
Brisbane (I can hear the gasps already : ) ). Anyway, I am wondering if private 
"patients" can be refused treatment if they do not consent to monitoring or IV 
lines. After all, what are they going to do, throw a pregnant woman out on the 
street? I am taking a private traditional midwife with me to the hospital to 
provide birth support and advocate on my behalf (the hospital is aware of this 
and has so far been supportive) so hopefully this will make refusal much easier. 
I am not entirely sure I can talk my doctor around before the birth, but will 
try anyway. He seems pretty reasonable overall (for an obgyn anyway). He's even 
agreed to deliver breech (probably the only doc in Brisbane who still does 
breech deliveries, although not all that often anymore because most women assume 
breech means cut).
 
Please 
let me know if anyone has any thoughts on this.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas 
McCullough

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robyn 
  ThompsonSent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 7:58 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: 
  mothers rights in public hospital 
  This 
  is an interesting topic and really good educational programme about rights and 
  responsibilities would be good.
   
  The 
  word Policy is often used in the hospital system as a means to take control of 
  women and make the staff feel safe from possible 
  litigation.
   
  A 
  Policy is not a legally binding document, it is a blanket statement for the 
  population, written to protect the hospital and the staff.  The women who 
  are forced to conform to such Policies have not had any hand in 
  writing such documentation, their individual needs are 
  negated.
   
  Everyone has the right to say NO, nothing should ever be done to anyone 
  without informed consent.  If we could just make all women feel confident 
  to use this approach when they get into a situation where they say and mean NO 
  we would be empowering these women to make informed decisions. The trouble is, 
  it's quite scary when they feel vulnerable in the hospital system 
  with all the "experts" hovering.
   
  Routine Fetal monitoring is a prime example.  Compliance to 
  20 minutes of fetal monitoring on arrival is the expected norm here and 
  is hospital Policy.  In reality fetal monitoring does not have to be done 
  at any time if the mother says NO.
  
Regular auscultation with her consent and understanding of the 
progress of labour is be more valuable. 
Routine 4 hourly vaginal examination is another where women should 
say NO. 
Giving a baby formula without written and informed consent is yet 
another and so on and so on
  Just 
  my comments,    Robyn
     
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debby 
MSent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 11:44 AMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in 
public hospital 

Jill, when I was trying to get into the Birth Centre at RWH I raised 
just this question. The NSW Womens Service actually publish a book on the 
rights of pregnant mothers - I gave my copy away after my baby was born and 
can't remember what it was called but I am sure they would know. 

In addition I found out from one of the doctors at the hospital that 
regardless of what was hospital policy they could not force me to comply 
with their policies ie. the policy for VBACs is they are continuously 
monitored and have a drip in however if I did not consent to this (which I 
didn't) they could not force this upon me. If I went against a policy that 
required positive action on my part for example got in a bath to labour when 
policy said I couldn't they also could not forceably r*move me as this would 
constitute assault. However what they could do is refuse to treat me - 
however this then raises issues related to duty of care in their facility - 
and from my discussions with the lawyer at the Women's legal service - 
perceived uncooperative behaviour on my part does not negate them from this 
duty of care - if a bad outcome had occurred as a result of my decisions 
then there would be a case for contributory negligence on my part which 
would lessen their responsibility! ! but it would not negate it altogether. 

The hospital itself also informed me that they cannot refuse to treat 
patients who come to them for care as this care under the public system is 
the primary right of every Australian. The "service" they provide must be 
with the patients informed consent. 


Therefore the mother does have the right to refuse any intervention fro